0:00:11 > 0:00:14APPLAUSE
0:00:16 > 0:00:18Thank you, and welcome to My Life In Books,
0:00:18 > 0:00:21a chance for my guests to share their favourite reads.
0:00:21 > 0:00:26Joining me tonight, Clare Balding, the presenter you can trust with any major live event.
0:00:26 > 0:00:30She even knows the offside rule, and she's taller than Willie Carson.
0:00:30 > 0:00:35Alongside Clare, broadcaster and stand-up comedian Hardeep Singh Kohli,
0:00:35 > 0:00:38currently touring the country as the Nearly Naked Chef,
0:00:38 > 0:00:40but the good news is tonight he's got his clothes on.
0:00:40 > 0:00:43Thank you both for joining us.
0:00:43 > 0:00:44APPLAUSE
0:00:48 > 0:00:52Clare, your father was Sir Ian Balding, a very famous trainer,
0:00:52 > 0:00:57and trained the Queen's horses, and indeed your brother's taken over the stables now,
0:00:57 > 0:01:00so you must have met the Queen on numerous occasions.
0:01:00 > 0:01:03- Er... Yes, erm... - LAUGHS
0:01:03 > 0:01:06When I was growing up, as a child,
0:01:06 > 0:01:09the Queen would come to have a look at her horses,
0:01:09 > 0:01:12so sometimes you would come downstairs, my brother and I,
0:01:12 > 0:01:15and the Queen would be in the drawing room, having breakfast.
0:01:15 > 0:01:17- Wow!- It's slightly unnerving.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20I saw a pony once in Springburn, when I was growing up.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22Did the Queen not give you any ponies?
0:01:22 > 0:01:27We queued for hours to see the Queen in 1977, the Silver Jubilee.
0:01:27 > 0:01:31We queued for five-and-a-half-hours,
0:01:31 > 0:01:34and she was gone in about eight or nine seconds.
0:01:34 > 0:01:38- Where were you?- George Square in the centre of Glasgow.
0:01:38 > 0:01:40Did you read a lot as a child, Clare?
0:01:40 > 0:01:42I did, yes,
0:01:42 > 0:01:46and particularly like a lot of little girls, you know,
0:01:46 > 0:01:49pony books were a very strong part of that reading.
0:01:49 > 0:01:54And I had this very strong belief that the ponies that I had
0:01:54 > 0:01:56understood me and knew exactly what I was saying.
0:01:56 > 0:02:00And these conversations I had with them, that they were listening to every word.
0:02:00 > 0:02:03- Did your parents read to you? Your father?- My mother did.
0:02:03 > 0:02:06- My father wouldn't have done. - Because he was too busy?
0:02:06 > 0:02:11- I think he didn't notice I was there until I was about...- Oh, dear!- ..23!
0:02:11 > 0:02:13- Hardeep, did your parents read to you?- No.
0:02:13 > 0:02:16I mean, both my parents worked quite a lot,
0:02:16 > 0:02:18because they were immigrants to the country,
0:02:18 > 0:02:21so it was kind of very much part of that lifestyle.
0:02:21 > 0:02:27But they used to put on Wally Whyton records for us and play stories.
0:02:27 > 0:02:31There would be stories told, we would listen to on an old gramophone.
0:02:31 > 0:02:35There was always stories being told, you can't grow up in a Punjabi household,
0:02:35 > 0:02:40or a Glaswegian household, without someone somewhere wanting to tell you, "One last story."
0:02:40 > 0:02:43Let's start with childhood reads.
0:02:43 > 0:02:49Clare, not surprisingly, you have chosen Black Beauty by Anna Sewell.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52Can you give us a brief summary?
0:02:52 > 0:02:55It's narrated by Black Beauty, the horse,
0:02:55 > 0:02:57and his is the voice you hear throughout it,
0:02:57 > 0:03:00and it traces his life and the different owners that he has.
0:03:00 > 0:03:03Some of whom are kind and compassionate,
0:03:03 > 0:03:05and some are downright cruel.
0:03:05 > 0:03:10And actually the edition that I have is the most beautiful book.
0:03:10 > 0:03:13It's not just the content of it, it's because it's this book.
0:03:13 > 0:03:15And inside it says,
0:03:15 > 0:03:21- "To my great-great-niece Clare, from Aunt Evelyn."- Oh, wonderful.
0:03:21 > 0:03:24And it's got beautiful prints in it by Cecil Aldin.
0:03:24 > 0:03:27It's a lovely book, and it was Anna Sewell's only book that she ever wrote.
0:03:27 > 0:03:29How old were you when you read it?
0:03:29 > 0:03:31Well, I think it was read to me first.
0:03:31 > 0:03:33I think my mother would have read it to me and...
0:03:33 > 0:03:35Did you see the television version?
0:03:35 > 0:03:37- I loved the television version. - You did?
0:03:37 > 0:03:40- Good, we've got a quick clip here.- Oh, good.
0:03:42 > 0:03:44Well, I suppose he ought to have a name.
0:03:44 > 0:03:47Now, let's see, um...
0:03:47 > 0:03:49Jet? Swift?
0:03:49 > 0:03:51No, they're not right!
0:03:51 > 0:03:54- Blackbird.- Ebony.- Lightning?
0:03:54 > 0:03:57Something that describes him.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00Well, he's black... and he's very beautiful.
0:04:02 > 0:04:03Black Beauty.
0:04:03 > 0:04:07BLACK BEAUTY THEME TUNE
0:04:18 > 0:04:20- The music's fantastic, isn't it? - It is lovely.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23I'm going to have that music at my funeral.
0:04:23 > 0:04:25- Oh, good.- A cheery thought, yes.
0:04:25 > 0:04:29Black Beauty, the book, suffers from being in the shadow of what was such an iconic TV show.
0:04:29 > 0:04:33I think a lot of people wouldn't have known the book existed,
0:04:33 > 0:04:35because the TV show...that music,
0:04:35 > 0:04:37it takes you back to being a kid again.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39I suppose it depends on how old you are,
0:04:39 > 0:04:43because for my generation, we'd well read Black Beauty.
0:04:43 > 0:04:46Also today you couldn't call it Black Beauty.
0:04:46 > 0:04:49It'd be Beauty Of Colour... LAUGHTER
0:04:49 > 0:04:51..which is understandable.
0:04:51 > 0:04:53You were brought up in Hampshire,
0:04:53 > 0:04:56and you started riding at the age of...
0:04:56 > 0:04:59Before I was two, cos I know that I broke my collar bone
0:04:59 > 0:05:01just after I was two falling off a pony.
0:05:01 > 0:05:04- There you are. - Oh, that's me on Mill Reef.
0:05:04 > 0:05:07My father trained a horse called Mill Reef, who won the Derby,
0:05:07 > 0:05:10- the Eclipse, the King George and the Arc.- Fantastic.
0:05:10 > 0:05:12He was the superstar of 1971,
0:05:12 > 0:05:15and in 1972, the year after I was born,
0:05:15 > 0:05:17he broke his leg, and that is him,
0:05:17 > 0:05:19having stood up after they repaired it.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22And they had a cast on it, and when he stood up,
0:05:22 > 0:05:26the first person to ride him, in fact the only person to ride him was me.
0:05:26 > 0:05:27So he didn't race after that?
0:05:27 > 0:05:30No, he went to stud and he sired Derby winners.
0:05:30 > 0:05:32Hardeep, your childhood read,
0:05:32 > 0:05:35you'd moved to Glasgow from London when you were four,
0:05:35 > 0:05:38and your parents had come over from India in the mid-'60s,
0:05:38 > 0:05:42and at school in Scotland you were introduced
0:05:42 > 0:05:44to Roald Dahl's Fantastic Mr Fox.
0:05:44 > 0:05:46Can you tell us the story?
0:05:46 > 0:05:49When I read it, it was just a cracking yarn about a fox,.
0:05:49 > 0:05:53Foxes were always quite cool, they've kind of got an arrogance about them.
0:05:53 > 0:05:56Even today if you see a city fox,
0:05:56 > 0:06:01they kind of look at you with a sense of condescension before they run off.
0:06:01 > 0:06:03They're quite Glaswegian in that sense.
0:06:03 > 0:06:06And quite gallus, which is a nice Glaswegian word.
0:06:06 > 0:06:08I'm evangelical about Roald Dahl.
0:06:08 > 0:06:12He was notoriously misanthropic, for sure,
0:06:12 > 0:06:14but there are levels within this book.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17It talks about community, which plays very much into my Sikh upbringing
0:06:17 > 0:06:19about community and society.
0:06:19 > 0:06:24It's about family, cos it's three wee foxes and Mr and Mrs Fox.
0:06:24 > 0:06:27I was one of three sons, so I could relate very easily to the family.
0:06:27 > 0:06:31But mostly it was about food. Gathering and collecting food.
0:06:31 > 0:06:35It has to be said, for the brilliance of Roald Dahl's writings,
0:06:35 > 0:06:41Quentin Blake's illustrations, it's putting together two of the finest practitioners
0:06:41 > 0:06:44in what's just an absolutely beautiful book.
0:06:44 > 0:06:46Can you read us a favourite bit?
0:06:46 > 0:06:50Yes, well, unsurprisingly, I turn immediately to a bit about food.
0:06:50 > 0:06:53- Yeah.- So at this point, all the animals have clubbed together
0:06:53 > 0:06:57to try and get food, because they're being starved out by the farmers.
0:06:57 > 0:07:00" 'So, to start with, we shall have four plump young ducks.'
0:07:00 > 0:07:03"He took them from the shelf. 'Oh, how lovely and fat they are.
0:07:03 > 0:07:07" 'No wonder Bunce gets a special price for them at market.
0:07:07 > 0:07:09" 'I think we'd better have a few geese.
0:07:09 > 0:07:12" 'Three will be quite enough, we'll take the biggest.
0:07:12 > 0:07:15" 'You'll never see finer geese than these in the king's kitchen.
0:07:15 > 0:07:16" 'Gently does it, that's the way.
0:07:16 > 0:07:20" 'What about a couple of smoked hams. I adore smoked hams.
0:07:20 > 0:07:22" 'Fetch me that stepladder, will you please?' "
0:07:22 > 0:07:25Mr Fox, I mean he's a bit of a villain, really,
0:07:25 > 0:07:28but he has that charm that wins everybody over.
0:07:28 > 0:07:32He's sort of Shakespearean, in a sense, because he is hubristic.
0:07:32 > 0:07:36He's full of arrogance that no-one can catch him, he can get whatever he wants.
0:07:36 > 0:07:40He finds himself in this really tight situation
0:07:40 > 0:07:43and actually searches his own self,
0:07:43 > 0:07:47and you learn more in life from your defeats than your victories,
0:07:47 > 0:07:50and he's defeated and manages to make his way of it.
0:07:50 > 0:07:51Now in both cases,
0:07:51 > 0:07:55your childhood books are actually reflecting your passions.
0:07:55 > 0:08:00Horses for you and food for you. Are you a good cook?
0:08:00 > 0:08:03I'm touring the country cooking for audiences,
0:08:03 > 0:08:05so I hope, if I'm not good now, I better get good.
0:08:05 > 0:08:07- With jokes.- With jokes and stories.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10What this book is, it's food and storytelling,
0:08:10 > 0:08:12and that's what my life seems to have become.
0:08:12 > 0:08:16- And obviously you have a mild interest in horses. - Just occasionally!
0:08:16 > 0:08:21Clare, you've brought in two very old editions of books.
0:08:21 > 0:08:25And your next one, you were studying English,
0:08:25 > 0:08:29it's The Myths Of Greece And Rome, edited by HA Guerber.
0:08:29 > 0:08:36Now, I've got here an edition that was published in 1906...1907.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39- Where did that come from? - I've written my name there very neatly,
0:08:39 > 0:08:43but on the left hand side it says W Hastings, and that's my Uncle Willie.
0:08:43 > 0:08:46So probably he'll claim it back when he sees this,
0:08:46 > 0:08:49which will be slightly disappointing.
0:08:49 > 0:08:52Do you have a favourite myth?
0:08:52 > 0:08:53Well, I love the fact that...
0:08:53 > 0:08:57I like the fact that it's real ancient mythology
0:08:57 > 0:08:59and that all these sort of stories...
0:08:59 > 0:09:02If you say to a child, or you hear a phrase like Achilles heel,
0:09:02 > 0:09:04and you know what that means.
0:09:04 > 0:09:07You know that means your weak point, but why does it mean that?
0:09:07 > 0:09:11Because of the myth of Achilles being dipped in the River Styx
0:09:11 > 0:09:13by his mother to make him impregnable.
0:09:13 > 0:09:15But she had to hold him by some bit of his body,
0:09:15 > 0:09:19so she held him by his ankle, and there in his heel.
0:09:19 > 0:09:21Achilles nose wouldn't be the same, would it?
0:09:21 > 0:09:22No, it wouldn't!
0:09:22 > 0:09:25It's incredibly powerful how these stories and these words
0:09:25 > 0:09:28have sustained for millennia.
0:09:28 > 0:09:31We still talk about people being narcissistic, Achilles heel, Pandora's box,
0:09:31 > 0:09:36regardless of all the literature from all over the world that's come in between.
0:09:36 > 0:09:38I think it shows the power of the stories.
0:09:38 > 0:09:43Oh, they're great tales, and in this edition there are various pictures,
0:09:43 > 0:09:45beautiful works of art based on the classics
0:09:45 > 0:09:47and also quotes from various poems.
0:09:47 > 0:09:51You've got bits of Virgil, but also you'd have bits of Byron or Keats or whoever.
0:09:51 > 0:09:57And the inspiration behind some of the great works of art and poems of British culture.
0:09:57 > 0:09:59You've reminded me today that
0:09:59 > 0:10:05one can be as in love with the physical book as the contents of it.
0:10:05 > 0:10:09Cos that's one of those books you actually would have had to envelope open.
0:10:09 > 0:10:12It would have been uncut pages, and with both of these books,
0:10:12 > 0:10:16it's as much about what they physically are as their content.
0:10:16 > 0:10:18And I love going back over this.
0:10:18 > 0:10:21I love the feel of it, the weight, the thickness of the pages.
0:10:21 > 0:10:25I love the smell of it. This one particularly smells really good.
0:10:25 > 0:10:28- You don't mind other people smelling your books?- No.
0:10:28 > 0:10:30- Can you smell that?- Yeah.
0:10:30 > 0:10:32And you'll let her smell your next book?
0:10:32 > 0:10:36- It smells of your front room. - Her great-uncle's front room.
0:10:36 > 0:10:40- My books don't smell quite as interesting.- We're coming on to your next book.
0:10:40 > 0:10:43While at university, you came upon your next choice.
0:10:43 > 0:10:45It's a very Scottish book.
0:10:45 > 0:10:47Lanark by Alasdair Gray.
0:10:47 > 0:10:50Is it possible to give us an overview?
0:10:50 > 0:10:54I was dreading the point where you would ask me what's the book about.
0:10:54 > 0:10:57I've read it three times, I don't really know what it's about.
0:10:57 > 0:11:01But it's about two characters, Duncan Thaw and Lanark.
0:11:01 > 0:11:04Duncan Thaw lives in post-war Glasgow.
0:11:04 > 0:11:08Lanark lives in post-apocalyptic Unthank, but it's really Glasgow.
0:11:08 > 0:11:12And it's their stories intertwined
0:11:12 > 0:11:14through four separate books brought together.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17It's about human beings, how we treat each other.
0:11:17 > 0:11:19Both Duncan Thaw and Lanark are outsiders,
0:11:19 > 0:11:21and looking back at my selections,
0:11:21 > 0:11:26I seem to relate very much with people on the periphery of society, those ostracised.
0:11:26 > 0:11:27Did it change your life?
0:11:27 > 0:11:31I wouldn't be here now if it weren't for that book.
0:11:31 > 0:11:33- Because...- Well, because as a teenager in Glasgow,
0:11:33 > 0:11:36I didn't really know there was a world outside Glasgow.
0:11:36 > 0:11:40This was the first bit of art I consumed that made me think,
0:11:40 > 0:11:42"Hold on, I can raise my head above the parapet."
0:11:42 > 0:11:46Glasgow is a city people write about, they're passionate about and they love.
0:11:46 > 0:11:50And also, again as an immigrant, I had no precedence in the city of Glasgow.
0:11:50 > 0:11:53My people come from the northwest of India,
0:11:53 > 0:11:55and that gave me an instant history.
0:11:55 > 0:11:59It locked me in to the '50s, '60s, '70s of Glasgow.
0:11:59 > 0:12:01And I felt I was part of the city.
0:12:01 > 0:12:04I was spat out by the city the way Duncan Thaw was.
0:12:04 > 0:12:07Yeah. Clare, we're coming on to your next book.
0:12:07 > 0:12:11You're at boarding school, where you eventually became head girl.
0:12:11 > 0:12:13Were you a goody-goody then?
0:12:13 > 0:12:15I was in terrible trouble when I was young.
0:12:15 > 0:12:17- OK.- I got suspended, got de-housed,
0:12:17 > 0:12:19and then I was the reformed character.
0:12:19 > 0:12:24And your book from that era is Emily Bronte's Wuthering Heights.
0:12:24 > 0:12:26Just remind us of the plot of this.
0:12:26 > 0:12:30The central characters are Heathcliff and Catherine Earnshaw,
0:12:30 > 0:12:31and the story boiled down,
0:12:31 > 0:12:35cos it's a quite complicated book, but the story really is about
0:12:35 > 0:12:38them growing up together, being real genuine soul mates,
0:12:38 > 0:12:44and how society, having imposed certain expectations on Catherine,
0:12:44 > 0:12:48society dictates that Heathcliff isn't good enough for her.
0:12:48 > 0:12:50So she marries boring old Edgar Linton,
0:12:50 > 0:12:53and Heathcliff goes away heartbroken,
0:12:53 > 0:12:58educates himself, comes back as a man that is acceptable to society
0:12:58 > 0:13:01and vows revenge and destroys lives because...
0:13:01 > 0:13:04All their lives are destroyed by this rigidity.
0:13:04 > 0:13:07Yeah, and I think when you're that age and you...
0:13:07 > 0:13:08not necessarily identify with it,
0:13:08 > 0:13:11but when you get a message in your head,
0:13:11 > 0:13:15"Don't listen to what society tells you is right".
0:13:15 > 0:13:17If you fall in love, you fall in love.
0:13:17 > 0:13:19Just...fall in love, be true to you.
0:13:19 > 0:13:23Don't tick all the boxes that everybody tells you to tick,
0:13:23 > 0:13:27because that way lies madness and unhappiness and all sorts.
0:13:27 > 0:13:33We've got a clip from probably the most famous version of the book in film
0:13:33 > 0:13:35which is the very early one, 1939.
0:13:35 > 0:13:38Laurence Olivier and Merle Oberon here,
0:13:38 > 0:13:41showing a very dark Heathcliff.
0:13:41 > 0:13:44You'll never love him, but you'll let yourself be loved
0:13:44 > 0:13:47because it pleases your stupid greedy vanity.
0:13:47 > 0:13:49Loved by that milk sop with buckles on his shoes.
0:13:49 > 0:13:51Stop it and get out!
0:13:51 > 0:13:53You had your chance to be something else,
0:13:53 > 0:13:56but thief or servant were all you were born to be.
0:13:56 > 0:13:58Or beggar beside the road, begging for favours,
0:13:58 > 0:14:02not earning them, but whimpering for them with your dirty hands.
0:14:03 > 0:14:07That's all I've become to you, a pair of dirty hands.
0:14:07 > 0:14:09Well, have them, then!
0:14:09 > 0:14:13Have them where they belong!
0:14:17 > 0:14:19It doesn't help to strike you.
0:14:19 > 0:14:23A peculiar way of speaking!
0:14:23 > 0:14:26Yes, that's true, but you can see there it's about that snobbery.
0:14:26 > 0:14:30It's about class, it's about racism as well.
0:14:30 > 0:14:33And it's set on the Yorkshire moors, and I've seen the vicarage
0:14:33 > 0:14:36where the Bronte sisters grew up,
0:14:36 > 0:14:41and all of that came from a young woman who couldn't possibly
0:14:41 > 0:14:43have experienced those things.
0:14:43 > 0:14:47But her imagination could create this really dark, tense world.
0:14:47 > 0:14:49Hardeep, have you read the classics?
0:14:49 > 0:14:51I have read some of the classics,
0:14:51 > 0:14:56but I kind of struggled through my teenage years with female writers
0:14:56 > 0:15:02because I think there's a maturity in women writing at the same age as men.
0:15:02 > 0:15:05We develop later emotionally, so I found it, to be blunt,
0:15:05 > 0:15:07kind of turgid and quite heavy going.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10I was struggling to come to terms with Glasgow,
0:15:10 > 0:15:12let alone the Yorkshire Dales.
0:15:12 > 0:15:15But, you know, hearing such an impassioned plea
0:15:15 > 0:15:18on it's behalf I think I might give it another go.
0:15:18 > 0:15:21- Do you re-read books?- I do.
0:15:21 > 0:15:25I don't know how you feel, but there's a list of books I've yet to read
0:15:25 > 0:15:27that I should really concentrate on.
0:15:27 > 0:15:29But another thing that's beautiful,
0:15:29 > 0:15:33particularly about the way we're talking about books through life,
0:15:33 > 0:15:36is WHEN you read a book as well as WHAT you read.
0:15:36 > 0:15:39So, you know, reading, Bronte in your teenage years
0:15:39 > 0:15:45will absolutely impact on your sense of relationship, and the rest of it.
0:15:45 > 0:15:48And similarly reading Burns throughout your life
0:15:48 > 0:15:51changes how you think about song, how you think about love.
0:15:51 > 0:15:54You go back to your roots for your next book.
0:15:54 > 0:15:58It's called A Fine Balance by Rohinton Mistry.
0:15:58 > 0:16:00Tell us about it.
0:16:00 > 0:16:04Simply the most beautiful book I've ever read.
0:16:04 > 0:16:06Set in India.
0:16:06 > 0:16:08Set in India in the mid-'70s, early to mid-70s,
0:16:08 > 0:16:11around the time of Indira Gandhi's Emergencies,
0:16:11 > 0:16:13and it's about a number of characters.
0:16:13 > 0:16:20But predominantly a couple of rural tailors, Omprakash and Ishvar,
0:16:20 > 0:16:23who come from the village to the city to find work.
0:16:23 > 0:16:28And it's heartbreaking, I've never cried so much reading a book.
0:16:28 > 0:16:31I'm not the sort of person that generally cries reading a book.
0:16:31 > 0:16:33It's an incredible...
0:16:33 > 0:16:36- it's an incredible story, told... - Give us a taste.
0:16:36 > 0:16:40I've read this actually and it is, it's a great, great book, epic.
0:16:40 > 0:16:44And violent and, you know I'd said to you, "smell this",
0:16:44 > 0:16:46the smells created in that book are great as well.
0:16:46 > 0:16:50Things as well I sort of feel slightly, having spent so much time in India.
0:16:50 > 0:16:55I think if I feel a writer about India is painting a picture
0:16:55 > 0:16:57I am unfamiliar with, yet can somehow resonate with,
0:16:57 > 0:16:59they must be doing an incredible job.
0:16:59 > 0:17:02I'll read the beginning, because I think the first four lines
0:17:02 > 0:17:06are as beautiful as any four lines you'll find in it.
0:17:06 > 0:17:10"The morning express, bloated with passengers, slowed to a crawl,
0:17:10 > 0:17:14"then lurched forward suddenly, as though to resume full speed.
0:17:14 > 0:17:17"The train's brief deception jolted its riders.
0:17:17 > 0:17:21"The bulge of humans hanging out of the doorway distended perilously,
0:17:21 > 0:17:23"like a soap bubble at its limit."
0:17:23 > 0:17:26And it's like that all the way through.
0:17:26 > 0:17:29The thing about this that's so important for me is
0:17:29 > 0:17:33it has tragedy at its core.
0:17:33 > 0:17:35Don't give away the end.
0:17:35 > 0:17:37No, it's genuine... It's...
0:17:37 > 0:17:40I'm genuinely welling up thinking about the ending
0:17:40 > 0:17:42because it consumes you, this book.
0:17:42 > 0:17:46Has religion featured a great deal in your life?
0:17:46 > 0:17:51Yes. I think I alluded to my Sikh upbringing in Fantastic Mr Fox.
0:17:51 > 0:17:56I'm a real, passionate believer in the culture of religion.
0:17:56 > 0:18:00- But do you go to temple for example? - No, I've an issue with organised religion.
0:18:00 > 0:18:04I don't see why a designated building makes the words you speak to your maker
0:18:04 > 0:18:07any more significant than your back bedroom.
0:18:07 > 0:18:10I've never seen you without a turban, turbans of many colours.
0:18:10 > 0:18:13Yes, I am the "Technicolour Dream Turban".
0:18:13 > 0:18:15I think that again is my identity,
0:18:15 > 0:18:19the cultural component of growing up, you know...
0:18:19 > 0:18:20Listen, I've had a great life,
0:18:20 > 0:18:24but it wasn't easy growing up in 1970s Glasgow as the fat, brown kid
0:18:24 > 0:18:27with the green school uniform and matching green turban.
0:18:27 > 0:18:29I felt I've earned the right to wear my turban.
0:18:29 > 0:18:34My Sikhism's incredibly important to me, culturally and socially.
0:18:34 > 0:18:36We move on, Clare, to a present day read.
0:18:36 > 0:18:40You read it a few years ago.
0:18:40 > 0:18:41It's unashamedly sentimental.
0:18:41 > 0:18:45It's called The Art of Racing in The Rain by Garth Stein.
0:18:45 > 0:18:48Tell us about it.
0:18:48 > 0:18:50I mean, it became a global bestseller.
0:18:50 > 0:18:54It is narrated by Enzo, who's the dog on the front cover there.
0:18:54 > 0:18:56Enzo is named after Enzo Ferrari.
0:18:56 > 0:19:02Enzo believes, because he's watched a documentary about Mongolia and life in Mongolia
0:19:02 > 0:19:07that says that dogs will be reincarnated as men, as humans, so he...
0:19:07 > 0:19:13The beginning of the book is the eve of his death, so you know throughout the book that he's going to die.
0:19:13 > 0:19:15Yeah.
0:19:15 > 0:19:17And he tells the story of Denny, who's his owner,
0:19:17 > 0:19:21and Denny's marriage and child and subsequent heartbreak
0:19:21 > 0:19:24when his wife dies and the battle for custody over his child.
0:19:24 > 0:19:31But Enzo is a very philosophical dog. He knows that when she's ill,
0:19:31 > 0:19:35when the wife is ill, he knows she's ill before she does, and you know...
0:19:35 > 0:19:38- Do you believe that about dogs? - My dog, I don't think would know.
0:19:38 > 0:19:41He'd just know whether he was hungry or not.
0:19:41 > 0:19:43- He's a Tibetan Terrier. - Yes.
0:19:43 > 0:19:45And indeed you were very ill a few years ago.
0:19:45 > 0:19:51Well, yes, I'm not sure he realised, but he just knew I wasn't there for a while.
0:19:51 > 0:19:56Cos you got thyroid cancer, which you're clear from now,
0:19:56 > 0:19:59but it was a pretty crucial time in your life.
0:19:59 > 0:20:02Yeah, and I was very... My attitude was,
0:20:02 > 0:20:05if I pretend this isn't happening, then it's not happening.
0:20:05 > 0:20:08Which is fine for me, it's not great for people around me,
0:20:08 > 0:20:11because they can't talk about it cos it's not happening.
0:20:11 > 0:20:13Were you reading this book?
0:20:13 > 0:20:17I would have read that... probably was reading it, or had done just before.
0:20:17 > 0:20:19And were you crying a lot anyway?
0:20:19 > 0:20:21Sobbing. Absolutely sobbing.
0:20:21 > 0:20:25- There's a bit here you wanted to read.- Yeah, I did.
0:20:25 > 0:20:29He says, "I've always felt almost human, I've always known
0:20:29 > 0:20:33"that there's something about me that's different from other dogs.
0:20:33 > 0:20:38"I'm stuffed into a dog's body, but that's just the shell, it's what's inside that's important.
0:20:38 > 0:20:42"The soul. And my soul is very human."
0:20:42 > 0:20:45And he's a great philosopher is Enzo.
0:20:45 > 0:20:50He tries to help and he tries to warn Denny when things are going wrong.
0:20:50 > 0:20:52And he watches a lot of motor racing.
0:20:52 > 0:20:56- It isn't horse racing? - It's motor racing and he's a big fan of Ayrton Senna.
0:20:56 > 0:20:59Are you a dog lover or a motor racing lover, Hardeep?
0:20:59 > 0:21:00- Neither.- Oh, dear!
0:21:00 > 0:21:06I mean, to be blunt, I can't think of a book I'm less likely
0:21:06 > 0:21:09to want to pick up, or indeed read.
0:21:09 > 0:21:12Can I just tell you, towards the end he knows he's going to die
0:21:12 > 0:21:16and he doesn't want Denny to have to take him to the vet.
0:21:16 > 0:21:18He wants to create a suicide machine for dogs
0:21:18 > 0:21:20so that he can die when he wants to die.
0:21:20 > 0:21:23Now, has that sold you, do you think?
0:21:23 > 0:21:25- He's about to die!- He's a dog! I mean...
0:21:27 > 0:21:30Your next book... Actually it...
0:21:30 > 0:21:32I can't believe you're not moved by...
0:21:32 > 0:21:34- I adore you, Clare Balding...- I know.
0:21:34 > 0:21:38- ..but he's a dog. - No, but interestingly this book...
0:21:38 > 0:21:42- Yes.- ...that you've chosen, which is Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale.
0:21:42 > 0:21:48You actually read this because your ex-wife recommended it.
0:21:48 > 0:21:53So you're not beyond being prepared to read something you wouldn't normally read.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55No. I mean, there was a kind of almost,
0:21:55 > 0:22:00I'm embarrassed to say, a conscious strategy
0:22:00 > 0:22:01to reading Atwood.
0:22:01 > 0:22:06I read white male writers pretty much all through my life, till my 20s.
0:22:06 > 0:22:09Then I kind of got to a point in my mid-30s and I thought,
0:22:09 > 0:22:14I've read so few books by women, I'm missing a massive perspective.
0:22:14 > 0:22:18So my ex-wife had read The Blind Assassin, The Handmaid's Tale, and a few other books.
0:22:18 > 0:22:21She recommended reading and I thought it'd be a great place,
0:22:21 > 0:22:24start at the top in terms of literature.
0:22:24 > 0:22:29- It's set in the future. - Yes. It's set in a world where
0:22:29 > 0:22:31we've so messed up the planet,
0:22:31 > 0:22:35and we've so spoilt our paradise that women struggle to become pregnant.
0:22:35 > 0:22:38So there are these handmaids, who are surrogates.
0:22:38 > 0:22:43So if you're at all fertile, you're imprisoned effectively
0:22:43 > 0:22:47and sent to houses to be impregnated by the man of the house.
0:22:47 > 0:22:53The baby's then born and whipped off you as if it was the woman of the house's child.
0:22:53 > 0:22:56And I thought it would be pleasant holiday reading.
0:22:56 > 0:22:59I ruined my holiday by staying up till four in the morning going,
0:22:59 > 0:23:01"One more chapter, one more chapter."
0:23:01 > 0:23:03Your ex-wife's ultimate revenge.
0:23:03 > 0:23:07Well, we're very good friends, so she gave me the gift of a brilliant book.
0:23:07 > 0:23:11You know, if any men are watching that are avid readers,
0:23:11 > 0:23:15I would exhort them to make sure they're reading enough women.
0:23:15 > 0:23:19I think women read plenty men, but I think it's really important to get a balance.
0:23:19 > 0:23:22- It's how we understand you so well. - Yes. And put up with you.
0:23:22 > 0:23:25We've had your childhood books, and ones that have
0:23:25 > 0:23:30shaped your adolescence, and great reads in adult life.
0:23:30 > 0:23:34What about hidden pleasures, even guilty pleasures?
0:23:34 > 0:23:37What's your guilty pleasure, Clare?
0:23:37 > 0:23:41When I go on holiday I'll take with me five or six books,
0:23:41 > 0:23:45but I will always start, almost in a way of cleansing my brain
0:23:45 > 0:23:49and making it, you know, just start again from nothing, I start with Dan Brown.
0:23:49 > 0:23:51Fabulous, isn't it?
0:23:51 > 0:23:54Clare Balding, Dan Brown's Angels And Demons.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57Angels and Demons, Da Vinci Code, I've just read The Lost Symbol
0:23:57 > 0:23:59on holiday the other week.
0:23:59 > 0:24:00Angels and Demons is ridiculous.
0:24:00 > 0:24:03It's a ridiculous plot, it's a stupid...
0:24:03 > 0:24:05The things that happen, he jumps out of a helicopter
0:24:05 > 0:24:08and saves himself with a handkerchief or something.
0:24:08 > 0:24:10The Pope goes up in flames.
0:24:10 > 0:24:12All this stuff that's completely unrealistic,
0:24:12 > 0:24:16but there are bits of it that are interesting and the symbology I love.
0:24:16 > 0:24:21Yeah, I mean you're going back really to mythology by liking this book.
0:24:21 > 0:24:24Yeah. And places in Rome and going back,
0:24:24 > 0:24:27and I've been to Rome relatively recently
0:24:27 > 0:24:29- and gone and tried to look... - It's that bad.
0:24:29 > 0:24:32"What's the distance between here and there?
0:24:32 > 0:24:33"Could he have got from there to there?"
0:24:33 > 0:24:36It's stuff that I find vaguely interesting.
0:24:36 > 0:24:39Can we talk about the book about the dog again?
0:24:39 > 0:24:43- No, we'll talk about your guilty pleasure. - It's very similar to Clare's.
0:24:43 > 0:24:46- You can read this on holiday. - This is The Communist Manifesto
0:24:46 > 0:24:48by Marx and Engels.
0:24:48 > 0:24:50How often do you look at this?
0:24:50 > 0:24:52Well, I dip in and out of it.
0:24:52 > 0:24:56I think again it's something I read when I was in my early teens
0:24:56 > 0:25:01and really gave me a passion for politics.
0:25:01 > 0:25:04It was the first time I realised there was a separation between
0:25:04 > 0:25:09political philosophy and politics we saw on telly and read about in the papers.
0:25:09 > 0:25:11And has it sold you on Communism?
0:25:11 > 0:25:17What it sold me on is that there is no correct political path.
0:25:17 > 0:25:21I mean, I think, you know, they talk about owning the means of production,
0:25:21 > 0:25:25which is regarded as being an incredibly left-wing philosophy.
0:25:25 > 0:25:27But actually if you look at big society,
0:25:27 > 0:25:30a right-wing philosophy from David Cameron,
0:25:30 > 0:25:34it's effectively owning the means of production, but without being paid for it.
0:25:34 > 0:25:35But incredibly intolerant.
0:25:35 > 0:25:38I mean, just page 28 here.
0:25:38 > 0:25:41"You must therefore confess by individual,
0:25:41 > 0:25:46"you mean no other person than the bourgeois, than the middle class owner of property.
0:25:46 > 0:25:50"This person must indeed be swept out of the way and made impossible."
0:25:50 > 0:25:54It is suggesting that someone like you and Clare should be swept away,
0:25:54 > 0:25:56you're the bourgeois class.
0:25:56 > 0:25:59I would be first with the broom. I would be first with the broom.
0:25:59 > 0:26:02- To... yeah...- To sweep me away. Thanks!- To sweep us all away.
0:26:02 > 0:26:07What do you think your book choices say about you?
0:26:07 > 0:26:12Well, interestingly I think, if I may about Clare, I was surprised...
0:26:12 > 0:26:15- I was only asking about you. - No, we can do it on each other.
0:26:15 > 0:26:16- We could.- Go on then.
0:26:16 > 0:26:22I wasn't surprised by the amount of animal-based books you've got,
0:26:22 > 0:26:24but I was genuinely surprised
0:26:24 > 0:26:29by how much theology and philosophy you have.
0:26:29 > 0:26:33I mean, you know, we can, you know, mock Dan Brown,
0:26:33 > 0:26:36but it is about religion, philosophy and belief.
0:26:36 > 0:26:38And the classics book is the same.
0:26:38 > 0:26:42So that was quite a surprise, for me, about you.
0:26:42 > 0:26:45I thought there'd be a food-based book too.
0:26:45 > 0:26:48Sorry to disappoint you! I wasn't surprised by Fantastic Mr Fox.
0:26:48 > 0:26:51It's very interesting, the way you've revealed yourself so clearly,
0:26:51 > 0:26:55that idea of the outsider, but also your Indian heritage
0:26:55 > 0:26:58in the Rohinton Mistry book, I think is fabulous.
0:26:58 > 0:27:01But also the political interest,
0:27:01 > 0:27:04and you are a very strongly political beast, you...
0:27:04 > 0:27:08- Yes, I do.- ...would never be afraid to say what you think.
0:27:08 > 0:27:11To point out injustice, to say, you know, "This doesn't work,
0:27:11 > 0:27:14"this system doesn't work and it needs to work better."
0:27:14 > 0:27:18But I think that book, you know, is a big part of my politics.
0:27:18 > 0:27:20But I can't wait, I'm going to read the Myths...
0:27:20 > 0:27:23- Myths Of Greece And Rome. - But not till you've read the dog book.
0:27:23 > 0:27:26- Given a choice...- You may mock, I tell you, I can take this,
0:27:26 > 0:27:30because I don't have to try and pretend I'm clever or anything,
0:27:30 > 0:27:32because nobody expects me to be.
0:27:32 > 0:27:34I can pick a nice book that lots of people have read
0:27:34 > 0:27:37and lots of people bought and feel no shame in it.
0:27:37 > 0:27:39I don't care what you think. I'm not trying to be clever.
0:27:39 > 0:27:42If you had to choose just one book, Clare.
0:27:42 > 0:27:45Yes, sorry, it wouldn't be that.
0:27:45 > 0:27:48- Much as I like it, it wouldn't be that.- What would it be?
0:27:48 > 0:27:51Well, I'd recommend, if it's across all age groups,
0:27:51 > 0:27:53I'd go for Myths Of Greece And Rome.
0:27:53 > 0:27:56I know there have been obviously much more recent editions,
0:27:56 > 0:27:59and you will hear these stories told and retold,
0:27:59 > 0:28:03and they will crop up in, in everything you do.
0:28:03 > 0:28:06So read as close to the original as you can.
0:28:06 > 0:28:11- It's a great recommendation.- Hardeep, which book would you recommend?
0:28:11 > 0:28:14I'd be tempted to go for The Fantastic Mr Fox,
0:28:14 > 0:28:18but that probably gets quite good reading as it is.
0:28:18 > 0:28:23So the Rohinton Mistry, A Fine Balance, the most beautiful book I've ever read.
0:28:23 > 0:28:25Lovely. There we are.
0:28:25 > 0:28:27Thank you Clare Balding and Hardeep Singh Kohli
0:28:27 > 0:28:29for joining me for My Life In Books.
0:28:29 > 0:28:31APPLAUSE
0:28:31 > 0:28:35CONVERSATION DROWNED OUT BY APPLAUSE
0:28:35 > 0:28:38And please don't forget there's more about this book series
0:28:38 > 0:28:44on the BBC website, and please join me tomorrow, same time, same place,
0:28:44 > 0:28:46for more stories of lives and books.
0:29:03 > 0:29:07Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd