0:00:12 > 0:00:16APPLAUSE
0:00:16 > 0:00:17Welcome to My Life In Books,
0:00:17 > 0:00:21a chance for my guests to share their favourite reads.
0:00:21 > 0:00:26Joining me tonight, two members of one of television's dynasties, the Snows.
0:00:26 > 0:00:29Peter, the man who gave appreciative viewers
0:00:29 > 0:00:33more and more exciting swingometers at election time.
0:00:33 > 0:00:35He's also been an intrepid reporter,
0:00:35 > 0:00:38a presenter of Newsnight and Tomorrow's World,
0:00:38 > 0:00:42and more recently he's teamed up with his son Dan to tell stories
0:00:42 > 0:00:46of famous battles on land and at sea in several television series.
0:00:46 > 0:00:50The Snows can trace their ancestry back to a former British
0:00:50 > 0:00:54Prime Minister, Lloyd George, and a First World War general.
0:00:54 > 0:00:57We're bristling with history tonight.
0:00:57 > 0:01:00- Thank you both for joining me. - APPLAUSE
0:01:00 > 0:01:02Let's begin with your childhood reads.
0:01:02 > 0:01:07- Peter, you were born in Dublin.- Yes. - And then London, you grew up.
0:01:07 > 0:01:10Spent a lot of time in Dublin as a young boy during the war.
0:01:10 > 0:01:12My mother was Irish, my dad was English,
0:01:12 > 0:01:16he was a soldier in the army, and I spent most of my time in Dublin.
0:01:16 > 0:01:19You were born in 1938, so was your father away?
0:01:19 > 0:01:23He went away soon after that, and went off with the British
0:01:23 > 0:01:25Expeditionary Force, to Burma and India,
0:01:25 > 0:01:31all over the place, and he came back, and I didn't see much of him for my first six or seven years.
0:01:31 > 0:01:34Then I went to boarding school, so I didn't see much of him.
0:01:34 > 0:01:37- So who was reading to you in the early years?- My mum.
0:01:37 > 0:01:41My Irish mum with her gentle Irish accent would read that wonderful
0:01:41 > 0:01:45book you're holding, Babar, and it's marvellous stuff.
0:01:45 > 0:01:48OK, this is your first choice. It's Babar the King, Jean de Brunhoff.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50Tell us about this.
0:01:50 > 0:01:54Everybody's heard of Babar The Elephant. I mean, it's just heaven.
0:01:54 > 0:01:58His poor old mother gets shot by some nasty hunters, he then
0:01:58 > 0:02:01wanders off, finds a city, a nice old lady gives him money,
0:02:01 > 0:02:06buys himself some clothes, dresses up, dolls up - bowler hat, the lot - and then he finds his...
0:02:06 > 0:02:11Two of his cousins come along and join him and so he gets them dressed as well, goes back to Elephant Land
0:02:11 > 0:02:16and becomes king. And he builds this beautiful capital, names it after his wife, Celeste -
0:02:16 > 0:02:21Celesteville - and it's just absolutely heaven.
0:02:21 > 0:02:25All the elephants swimming in the foreground, they have a little hut with a straw roof,
0:02:25 > 0:02:29and there's a Palace of Pleasure and a Palace of Work, and everything is involved.
0:02:29 > 0:02:33And there's sailing, they love sailing, which I love doing as well.
0:02:33 > 0:02:36- Maybe I learnt to love it from that. - It's a socialist utopia,
0:02:36 > 0:02:38and Dad's obsessed with models. He has a model railway.
0:02:38 > 0:02:42I remember Dad being obsessed by this picture and I found it strange.
0:02:42 > 0:02:44Did he have a full train set in the house?
0:02:44 > 0:02:48We had one in our house that Dan was more or less born in, in Islington,
0:02:48 > 0:02:51it used to go round the top floor, through the bathroom as well.
0:02:51 > 0:02:54LAUGHTER
0:02:54 > 0:02:57But we have one in the present house, bigger loft, and it has
0:02:57 > 0:02:59three separate lines, three trains at the same time.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02- And did you play with the train set?- Not really, no.
0:03:02 > 0:03:06Dad did, and I'd have to sit beside him while he played with it.
0:03:06 > 0:03:10Were you read this book, obviously, as well?
0:03:10 > 0:03:14Oh, yes, I have to say, nearly all the books on this table I read.
0:03:14 > 0:03:17I was introduced to by an incredibly...
0:03:17 > 0:03:21Mum, Dad, aunties and Grandma in particular were huge readers,
0:03:21 > 0:03:23- but this was a staple of childhood. - He likes being read to.
0:03:23 > 0:03:26Liked being read to, not now!
0:03:26 > 0:03:32He read to me, embarrassingly... he read to me until I was about six foot tall, so I was about
0:03:32 > 0:03:3813 or 14, and people would come in and we'd be curled up on the sofa with him reading aloud.
0:03:38 > 0:03:41Also reading weird books like Thucydides, you know,
0:03:41 > 0:03:44The History Of The Peloponnesian War. People were struck by that.
0:03:44 > 0:03:47- But you enjoyed it?- I loved it.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50- I loved it, yeah.- Tell us a bit more about your childhood.
0:03:50 > 0:03:53You were one of six children in all.
0:03:53 > 0:03:55One of six children in all.
0:03:55 > 0:04:00At the time we thought there were five, and then one turned up that was a bit older than me. But...
0:04:00 > 0:04:04Five when we were growing up. We never saw Dad during the week.
0:04:04 > 0:04:09Monday to Friday, because he's a perfectionist, he worked all the hours that God sent.
0:04:09 > 0:04:10He was...
0:04:10 > 0:04:14I used to go in in the morning, throw the papers on his bed, and then...
0:04:14 > 0:04:18and then say "good morning", then he'd work on Newsnight till midnight.
0:04:18 > 0:04:22On the weekend, he didn't play golf, didn't go out with his mates,
0:04:22 > 0:04:24he was absolutely obsessed with the children.
0:04:24 > 0:04:27So we'd go to museums. I've been to every National Trust, English Heritage...
0:04:27 > 0:04:31any in the South East and, frankly, all of the UK.
0:04:31 > 0:04:34And we're reading constantly, playing games, doing stuff.
0:04:34 > 0:04:36- And a great deal of sailing. - A huge amount.
0:04:36 > 0:04:40And by the Sunday night, we were ready to say goodbye to him for another week!
0:04:40 > 0:04:45Well, it's not surprising your first choice, a childhood read,
0:04:45 > 0:04:48- is Treasure Island. Tell us about it.- I had this beautiful...
0:04:48 > 0:04:51Still one of my favourite books, this hardback copy of
0:04:51 > 0:04:56Treasure Island, I remember all the illustrations so well, they are works of art in their own right.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59One of my favourites, growing up. The ultimate adventure story.
0:04:59 > 0:05:02It's never been bettered, it just does it all.
0:05:02 > 0:05:07It's a story about a young boy, put into this tumultuous journey
0:05:07 > 0:05:10to go and find this treasure on a desert island.
0:05:10 > 0:05:13They discover castaways, a mutiny, a fantastic battle.
0:05:13 > 0:05:17I remember words like musket and stockade, wonderful 18th-century words
0:05:17 > 0:05:21that really resonated, and they still do with me today.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24And in the end they find the treasure and all go back,
0:05:24 > 0:05:29and the goodies win, and it's one of the great novels, I think, of British history.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32- How old were you when you discovered it?- From before I even remember.
0:05:32 > 0:05:37- OK.- Dad would tell me these stories and I'd discover he hadn't made them up
0:05:37 > 0:05:41- and someone called Robert Louis Stevenson had. - Have you a favourite passage?
0:05:41 > 0:05:43Well, there's a wonderful passage here.
0:05:43 > 0:05:47"As I was waiting, a man came out of a side room,
0:05:47 > 0:05:49"and at a glance I was sure it must be Long John.
0:05:49 > 0:05:53"His left leg was cut off close to the hip, under the left shoulder he carried a crutch,
0:05:53 > 0:05:58"which he managed with wonderful dexterity, hopping about on it like a bird.
0:05:58 > 0:06:03"He was very tall and strong with a face as big as a ham, plain and pale, but intelligent and smiling.
0:06:03 > 0:06:07"Indeed, he seemed in the most cheerful spirits, whistling as he moved among the tables with
0:06:07 > 0:06:11"a merry word or slap on the shoulder for the more favoured of his guests."
0:06:11 > 0:06:15- Lovely.- I mean, to imagine yourself as a child
0:06:15 > 0:06:18in those situations as a young boy just set me on fire.
0:06:18 > 0:06:21And you were very fond of pirates as a youngster, we've got a picture.
0:06:21 > 0:06:24Very cute you look there. A sort of Little Lord Fauntleroy.
0:06:24 > 0:06:26I know. Where did it all go wrong?
0:06:26 > 0:06:30Are you all great sailors and all very adventurous?
0:06:30 > 0:06:32We're all very adventurous, I think.
0:06:32 > 0:06:36We all have a very high tolerance for pain and discomfort!
0:06:36 > 0:06:39They are all very good sailors, they love it.
0:06:39 > 0:06:43Was Treasure Island because you were sailing, or did that help to get you interested?
0:06:43 > 0:06:46I think, Treasure Island, show me a young person that
0:06:46 > 0:06:49doesn't like Treasure Island. It's impossible.
0:06:49 > 0:06:52We're on to Peter for your next read.
0:06:52 > 0:06:54It's quite a different book, this.
0:06:54 > 0:06:58It's The Collected Poems of James Elroy Flecker. Why this choice?
0:06:58 > 0:07:01That's me in my romantic mood. Flecker is just heaven.
0:07:01 > 0:07:04Flecker is one of those young,
0:07:04 > 0:07:07just pre-First World War people, fascinated by...
0:07:07 > 0:07:11..fascinated by travel, fascinated by the Middle East, fascinated by the Arabs.
0:07:11 > 0:07:15Fascinated by the sort of, the sultans of Baghdad, the sultans of Turkey
0:07:15 > 0:07:18and the caliphs, the caliphs of Baghdad.
0:07:18 > 0:07:21And his poetry is simply beautiful, just absolutely lovely.
0:07:21 > 0:07:24How old were you when you discovered this?
0:07:24 > 0:07:27I was actually at school. I was about 15 when I discovered Flecker.
0:07:27 > 0:07:31Somebody said, "Have you read Flecker's play Hassan?"
0:07:31 > 0:07:34And I hadn't read Hassan, and I read it and was absolutely captivated.
0:07:34 > 0:07:40Just let me read you a little passage. I mean, here's his poem To A Poet A Thousand Years Hence.
0:07:40 > 0:07:45"I who am dead a thousand years and wrote this sweet archaic song
0:07:45 > 0:07:49"Send you my words for messengers, the way I shall not pass along
0:07:49 > 0:07:53"Since I can never see your face and never shake you by the hand
0:07:53 > 0:07:56"I send my soul through time and space, to greet you
0:07:56 > 0:07:58"You will understand."
0:07:58 > 0:08:01Terribly simple. Utterly beautiful.
0:08:01 > 0:08:06Was it the sort of poetry that people around you were reading at that time, 14 or 15-year-olds?
0:08:06 > 0:08:08Well, there were a lot of mixed-up characters like me
0:08:08 > 0:08:12at school, but I think probably some didn't think this was very...
0:08:12 > 0:08:16A lot of TS Eliot around, you know, which I had no time for, I'm afraid.
0:08:16 > 0:08:19I like stuff that rhymes, and I like stuff I can understand.
0:08:19 > 0:08:22- I'm a very simple fellow. - Is that your school copy?
0:08:22 > 0:08:25This is my original copy. You seem to have something rather snazzy.
0:08:25 > 0:08:28But this is my dear old copy that's falling apart.
0:08:28 > 0:08:31- But you love this too, don't you? - Dad made me learn...
0:08:31 > 0:08:36He decided that I had no education when I was about 12.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39You're not at boarding school, unlike your father?
0:08:39 > 0:08:41No, I was able to walk to every school I ever went to.
0:08:41 > 0:08:43Was that a decision you made...?
0:08:43 > 0:08:47I would never have sent him to boarding school after my experiences.
0:08:47 > 0:08:53You went away at seven, which now seems very draconian, doesn't it, to send a child away?
0:08:53 > 0:08:58I went off at seven, clutching my teddy bear, terrified of what would happen at school.
0:08:58 > 0:09:02I took Patrick to school with me, my teddy bear, and I thought, I mean,
0:09:02 > 0:09:04"Patrick will save me from being too shy and lonely."
0:09:04 > 0:09:08But he didn't. I mean, I... Everybody else laughed at me.
0:09:08 > 0:09:12I wrapped Patrick up three days later and sent him home in a parcel.
0:09:12 > 0:09:16I was really miserable, but then of course, after a week or two, there I was, you know,
0:09:16 > 0:09:18as brave as...
0:09:18 > 0:09:20Tough as goodness knows what.
0:09:20 > 0:09:24It makes you rather too early into a man, going to boarding school.
0:09:24 > 0:09:28- Didn't like it at all.- You didn't have to be a man so early? - No, I was very soft.
0:09:28 > 0:09:31I used to come home and see my mum every night. But I...
0:09:31 > 0:09:32You did have to learn poetry?
0:09:32 > 0:09:35I did, Dad decided I didn't have any education
0:09:35 > 0:09:37when I was about 12 because we were learning about
0:09:37 > 0:09:41baobab trees in geography and wattle and daub houses in history.
0:09:41 > 0:09:44He said "You're not forced to learn strange Victorian poetry like I was?!"
0:09:44 > 0:09:49So my cousin Alex and I... He's Canadian, had even less education cos they used to do things
0:09:49 > 0:09:52like maths and science over there, which Dad didn't approve of at all.
0:09:52 > 0:09:56He and I were made to learn Tennyson's Ulysses
0:09:56 > 0:10:01which, to be honest, annoyingly remains to this day one of my favourite poems, amazing poem,
0:10:01 > 0:10:05and we learnt every single word, and Dad used to test us every day.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07We realised, like all great prisoners, we could rebel
0:10:07 > 0:10:10in some way against this, cos we realised Dad couldn't make us
0:10:10 > 0:10:14declaim it in a very thespy way like he wanted us to, so if we went...
0:10:14 > 0:10:18- MONOTONOUSLY:- "Match'd with an aged wife, I mete and dole..."
0:10:18 > 0:10:21so we could actually learn it but we could also enrage him.
0:10:21 > 0:10:24- But it's wonderful stuff. - Can you still remember...?
0:10:24 > 0:10:29"Though we are not now that strength which in old times moved earth and heaven
0:10:29 > 0:10:32"That which we are, we are One equal temper of heroic hearts
0:10:32 > 0:10:35"Made weak by time and faith, but strong in will
0:10:35 > 0:10:39"To seek, to strive, to search and not to find."
0:10:39 > 0:10:41- No, that's not right. - LAUGHTER
0:10:41 > 0:10:44No, I've got it! "To seek, to strive, to fight and not to yield."
0:10:44 > 0:10:47- Right.- "To strive, to seek", yeah, correct.
0:10:47 > 0:10:49- Very mean.- Lots of verbs.
0:10:49 > 0:10:53I got one line wrong, these things happen. But it is the most marvellous poetry.
0:10:53 > 0:10:55Dan, your next choice, Dreadnought,
0:10:55 > 0:10:58Robert K Massie. How old are you
0:10:58 > 0:11:00when you choose this?
0:11:00 > 0:11:04I was about 11 and I just read this
0:11:04 > 0:11:08because Robert Massie is a phenomenal writer of history,
0:11:08 > 0:11:12and what's amazing about this book is that, although there's a...
0:11:12 > 0:11:16the spine is about this steel and the ship being built, it's about the architects,
0:11:16 > 0:11:21about the politicians, about the public that demanded these ships as they were scared of Germany.
0:11:21 > 0:11:25It's about the Germans that then built other ships because they were also scared.
0:11:25 > 0:11:30The key thing for a historian, whether it's on television or here, is to bring out
0:11:30 > 0:11:32the human reasons why all this violence is going on.
0:11:32 > 0:11:36And in fact, so sold on it that you did a series which covered the Dreadnought, didn't you?
0:11:36 > 0:11:40Yes, I did, I was lucky enough... I mean, it was a dream come true.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44I was lucky enough to make a series on the history of the Royal Navy for BBC Two last year.
0:11:44 > 0:11:46We've got a clip.
0:11:46 > 0:11:51'Construction began on the 2nd October 1905.
0:11:51 > 0:11:56'Under top-secret conditions, 3,000 men worked 11 hours a day,
0:11:56 > 0:12:00'six days a week in the Portsmouth Royal Dockyard.
0:12:00 > 0:12:02'With record-breaking speed,
0:12:02 > 0:12:06'the first Dreadnought was completed just a year and a day later.'
0:12:06 > 0:12:09Why is it that men are so excited
0:12:09 > 0:12:13by warfare and guns and stuff that kills people?
0:12:13 > 0:12:16It's a very good question, and they shouldn't be.
0:12:16 > 0:12:19What is extraordinary about this book, it talks about human beings.
0:12:19 > 0:12:22The thing about warfare that's extraordinary,
0:12:22 > 0:12:26it's about putting humans in the most extreme positions they will ever be in.
0:12:26 > 0:12:29They are fighting for their lives, often hand-to-hand
0:12:29 > 0:12:32against somebody else, often for a cause they don't fully understand.
0:12:32 > 0:12:35Whatever we're saying about warfare, about the excitement,
0:12:35 > 0:12:39the drive, the awfulness of it, it is rather important.
0:12:39 > 0:12:42Trying to understand why people fight each other is important
0:12:42 > 0:12:46because it's the big wars that change the shape of the map.
0:12:46 > 0:12:49- But nevertheless, Peter, the kit... - The kit. I agree...
0:12:49 > 0:12:55You see, Dad and I aren't obsessed by kit, we came to military history absolutely through
0:12:55 > 0:12:57the great human stories, but you're right, a lot of men
0:12:57 > 0:13:02- come though it because of the turning circle of a Spitfire. - What makes you choose a book?
0:13:02 > 0:13:05Where do you, if you're standing in a book shop...?
0:13:05 > 0:13:10The decisive test of a book, do I go on turning the pages? I always say...
0:13:10 > 0:13:13I've written one or two books, but when I give someone one of my books
0:13:13 > 0:13:16or I see them buying it, I say, "If you reach page 30
0:13:16 > 0:13:20"and you don't want to turn the page, chuck it away."
0:13:20 > 0:13:22Do you chuck away, or do you doggedly go on?
0:13:22 > 0:13:25I'm a big of a dogged... I think I, yeah, I'm just a bit dogged.
0:13:25 > 0:13:31It must be something to do with my childhood of just being beaten up so much intellectually
0:13:31 > 0:13:34and taken round country houses and museums. I just assume
0:13:34 > 0:13:36that you have to go, finish it to the end.
0:13:36 > 0:13:38The idea of leaving a Snow family walk halfway,
0:13:38 > 0:13:40going back to the car was not an option.
0:13:40 > 0:13:44Your next choice, Peter, is Mark Urban, Rifles.
0:13:44 > 0:13:45Tell me about this.
0:13:45 > 0:13:47Mark Urban worked with me on Newsnight
0:13:47 > 0:13:49and I thought I'd pick up his book and read it,
0:13:49 > 0:13:51wonderful story about the Rifles,
0:13:51 > 0:13:56an incredible regiment that went with Wellington, fought through the Peninsular and fought at Waterloo.
0:13:56 > 0:13:59And they had these very long, accurate weapons.
0:13:59 > 0:14:02The rifle, unlike the musket, very effective.
0:14:02 > 0:14:06I thought, "Interesting, it's fascinating." An amazing amount of direct speech.
0:14:06 > 0:14:11This must be like Bernard Cornwall's Sharpe, it must be a fiction book, it must be an invention. It's not!
0:14:11 > 0:14:14- It's a deep piece of research. - Yes, but it's true,
0:14:14 > 0:14:18these people really said what they say in his book.
0:14:18 > 0:14:22And they wrote diaries and journals and letters home and so on, telling these stories.
0:14:22 > 0:14:27And that fascinated me and actually motivated me to write about Wellington,
0:14:27 > 0:14:31the whole story of the Duke of Wellington, from Portugal to Waterloo.
0:14:31 > 0:14:34Do you think it's important to revisit history and reassess?
0:14:34 > 0:14:36Crucial, terribly important.
0:14:36 > 0:14:41People who don't understand history don't understand what we're doing now, where we're going.
0:14:41 > 0:14:44History is absolutely essential. It's one of the saddest things
0:14:44 > 0:14:48that we have at the moment no compulsory history until the age of 16.
0:14:48 > 0:14:49It should be compulsory.
0:14:49 > 0:14:53Dan, you studied history at Oxford, do you think it's important to revisit history?
0:14:53 > 0:14:58Of course. It's both important
0:14:58 > 0:15:00and infinitely rewarding, it's fantastic.
0:15:00 > 0:15:05And without a sense of history, we've got no sense of who we are,
0:15:05 > 0:15:08either as individuals, as a family - certainly in our case - and as a society.
0:15:08 > 0:15:13OK. Your next choice, we move from history, this is 20th century.
0:15:13 > 0:15:16It's Ryszard Kapuscinski,
0:15:16 > 0:15:18called The Shadow Of The Sun,
0:15:18 > 0:15:21it's nonfiction, My African Life.
0:15:21 > 0:15:23Yeah, I mean, Ryszard Kapuscinski,
0:15:23 > 0:15:26I think, is one of the greatest authors I've ever come across.
0:15:26 > 0:15:29He wrote so beautifully about the Soviet Union,
0:15:29 > 0:15:33he's written about lots of things. He was a Polish journalist
0:15:33 > 0:15:37and he was travelling round Africa during the period of de-colonisation,
0:15:37 > 0:15:39and that's a fascinating point of view,
0:15:39 > 0:15:42because the Western journalists were very much involved in it,
0:15:42 > 0:15:45Brits were watching Britain pull out of Africa.
0:15:45 > 0:15:48He had a curiously detached standpoint, really.
0:15:48 > 0:15:53And being Polish, he was allowed in, he got access to certain Communist movements,
0:15:53 > 0:15:55things in Africa, it gives him a unique voice.
0:15:55 > 0:15:57I think the funny thing about Kapuscinski is
0:15:57 > 0:16:00he often doesn't talk about the key moment when one politician
0:16:00 > 0:16:05was exchanged for another one, he actually just sits back and chats with people in the marketplace.
0:16:05 > 0:16:10And it's not a brilliant work of history, or even journalism,
0:16:10 > 0:16:17just simply a man's travels through this incredibly colourful, deeply tragic and never-boring continent.
0:16:17 > 0:16:22- Can you read us a favourite passage? - Yes. I mean, there's the thing that anyone who visits the tropics,
0:16:22 > 0:16:27it's so different to Britain, where the sun goes down so slowly, so this is about night falling.
0:16:27 > 0:16:29"We drove on, night had already fallen.
0:16:29 > 0:16:36"Everything that in Europe is called dusk and evening here last only a few minutes, if it exists at all.
0:16:36 > 0:16:39"It is daytime and then night, as if someone has turned off
0:16:39 > 0:16:42"the sun's generator with one flip of the switch.
0:16:42 > 0:16:44"All at once, all is black.
0:16:44 > 0:16:48"In one instant, we're inside the night's darkest core.
0:16:48 > 0:16:53"If this change surprises you as you are walking through the bush, you must stop immediately.
0:16:53 > 0:16:56"You can see nothing, as if somebody unexpectedly pulled a sack over your head.
0:16:56 > 0:16:59"You become disorientated, don't know where you are.
0:16:59 > 0:17:02"In such darkness, people converse without seeing one another.
0:17:02 > 0:17:06"They might call out to one another not realising they're side by side.
0:17:06 > 0:17:09"The darkness separates people and thereby intensifies all the more
0:17:09 > 0:17:12"their desire to be together in a group, in a community."
0:17:12 > 0:17:16I mean, he really steeps himself in the life in Africa.
0:17:16 > 0:17:21It must have been the sort of budget that no journalist would be allowed now to spend that much time.
0:17:21 > 0:17:25I know. The funny thing is he didn't even cover some of the big events,
0:17:25 > 0:17:29too busy snoozing under a broken-down truck in Sudan, chatting with the driver for a week.
0:17:29 > 0:17:32- Yeah. It is like a travel book. - Yeah, it's a travel book.
0:17:32 > 0:17:35- Have you read it, Peter? - Yes, I have.
0:17:35 > 0:17:38Wonderfully insightful book. Fascinating.
0:17:38 > 0:17:42Peter, with your next choice, this is called One For The Money.
0:17:42 > 0:17:44There's a very racy girl
0:17:44 > 0:17:47with very few clothes on,
0:17:47 > 0:17:50- pointing a gun at somebody. - Stephanie Plum.- Yes.
0:17:50 > 0:17:54The author is described as a bestselling author, Janet Evanovich.
0:17:54 > 0:17:56Recommended by your wife.
0:17:56 > 0:17:59Absolutely. My wife is North American, Canadian.
0:17:59 > 0:18:02This is actually by someone from New Jersey.
0:18:02 > 0:18:07Janet Evanovich is very funny, she keeps me laughing throughout the book.
0:18:07 > 0:18:11And she writes about this wonderful Stephanie Plum, half-naked on the front page.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14But she sells lingerie.
0:18:14 > 0:18:18And she's so desperate, she loses her job, that she decides to become
0:18:18 > 0:18:22a bounty hunter, collecting people who haven't paid their bail. And so she buys a gun
0:18:22 > 0:18:24and she charges around Trenton, New Jersey,
0:18:24 > 0:18:27trying to find people who jump bail. It's terribly funny.
0:18:27 > 0:18:31Goes from mishap to mishap, making a terrible nonsense of everything
0:18:31 > 0:18:36and meeting the most appalling crooks and criminals. I'm going to read you a little passage.
0:18:36 > 0:18:39She also has terrible trouble with her family, who are all rather mad.
0:18:39 > 0:18:44Her grandmother is like a piece of old granite, she's about 90 years old, and...
0:18:44 > 0:18:47she goes home with her gun for the first time
0:18:47 > 0:18:50and has dinner with her mum and dad and her granny
0:18:50 > 0:18:54and she says, "No-one had been paying attention to Grandma.
0:18:54 > 0:18:56"She was still playing with my gun.
0:18:56 > 0:18:58"Aiming and sighting, getting used to the heft of it.
0:18:58 > 0:19:01"I realised there was a box of ammo beside the tampons.
0:19:01 > 0:19:06"A scary thought skittered into my mind, 'Grandma, you didn't load the gun, did you?'
0:19:06 > 0:19:08"'Well, of course I loaded the gun,' she said.
0:19:08 > 0:19:13"'I left the one hole empty like I saw on television, that way you can't shoot nothing by mistake.'
0:19:13 > 0:19:17"She cocked the gun to demonstrate the safety of her action, there was a loud bang, a flash
0:19:17 > 0:19:21"erupted from the gun barrel and the chicken carcass jumped on its plate.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23"'Holy Mother of God!' my mother shrieked.
0:19:23 > 0:19:25"Grandma was the first to speak after that.
0:19:25 > 0:19:30"'That shooting gave me an appetite,' she said. 'Somebody pass me the potatoes.'"
0:19:30 > 0:19:32It's just wonderful stuff.
0:19:32 > 0:19:36- Did your mother give it to you as well, Dan?- What can I say? I'd like to pretend Dad's a mad eccentric
0:19:36 > 0:19:39but they're fantastic and I've read several of them.
0:19:39 > 0:19:41There's now 17 of them.
0:19:41 > 0:19:4417. Smokin' Seventeen.
0:19:44 > 0:19:47- Sizzling Sixteen. And they're all about the same woman. - You've read all of them?
0:19:47 > 0:19:51- No, quite a lot of them.- I've read about two or three. Very good.
0:19:51 > 0:19:55Does Stephanie Plum remind you of anyone?
0:19:55 > 0:19:57She reminds me of, sort of, my...
0:19:57 > 0:20:00Well, no, I'm very careful about what I say about my wife but,
0:20:00 > 0:20:03I mean, she's sort of snazzy, you know, she goes for things.
0:20:03 > 0:20:07And that's nice. And she'll try anything, my wife will too.
0:20:07 > 0:20:09She's a wonderful, a wonderful person.
0:20:09 > 0:20:14- Does that remind you of your mother? - Not in the least does it remind me of my mother.
0:20:14 > 0:20:16Completely mad. But it washes over me now, I'm used to it.
0:20:16 > 0:20:20- Dan, you were 18 when you discovered you had an extra brother?- Yes.
0:20:20 > 0:20:22Yes. How did that come about?
0:20:22 > 0:20:27- Why did you suddenly look at me like that?- Well, I thought you might have something to do with it.
0:20:27 > 0:20:30I got this call during the 1997 election campaign,
0:20:30 > 0:20:34from a bloke who said, "Hello, my name is Matthieu Debost."
0:20:34 > 0:20:38- I said, "Hello, Matthieu." - No, what did you actually say?
0:20:38 > 0:20:41No, he said, "I think you might be my father." I'm coming to that.
0:20:41 > 0:20:44So I said, "Well, are you tall, dark and handsome?"
0:20:44 > 0:20:47He said, "Some people say I'm quite good looking."
0:20:47 > 0:20:50So I said, "You'd better come across and have lunch and we'll see."
0:20:50 > 0:20:52So he came across to England.
0:20:52 > 0:20:55He did say that he was a certain person's son,
0:20:55 > 0:20:58who turned out to be someone I did indeed know for a short while, in...
0:20:58 > 0:21:03Actually in Egypt, in Cairo, it was rather more peaceful, and we went on a Nile cruise.
0:21:03 > 0:21:07But anyway, he came over to London, we had a test, and indeed he was
0:21:07 > 0:21:10my son and I introduced him to the family and they all loved it.
0:21:10 > 0:21:15- It's wonderful. The nicest man in the world.- When you first saw him, was there any doubt, facially?
0:21:15 > 0:21:17Well, some people said - Dan included -
0:21:17 > 0:21:21"Don't know why on Earth you want to have a test because he looks exactly like you!"
0:21:21 > 0:21:26- Which I suppose is partly true. - He's got the Snow nose and the teeth that go back. He's got the works.
0:21:26 > 0:21:28- The big chin...- But he's French.
0:21:28 > 0:21:31He has all the advantages of Dad's genes without any
0:21:31 > 0:21:34of the disadvantages of having grown up in our family.
0:21:34 > 0:21:36LAUGHTER
0:21:36 > 0:21:39So, you know, he has a lovely home life.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42He works in a bank, he's rich, he's got a proper job,
0:21:42 > 0:21:45nice pension, nice car, whereas we're completely hopeless.
0:21:45 > 0:21:48Your next choice, Dan.
0:21:48 > 0:21:50- Yes.- The Iliad.
0:21:50 > 0:21:51The Iliad. I suppose I...
0:21:51 > 0:21:53It's one of these books
0:21:53 > 0:21:54I keep knocking into at various
0:21:54 > 0:21:57phases of my life, and as a military historian I'm so drawn to it,
0:21:57 > 0:22:02it's one of the oldest works in Western literature and, really, it says everything you need to know
0:22:02 > 0:22:07about warfare, about its victims, about the women and children that suffer such terrible losses.
0:22:07 > 0:22:10- Can you give us a quick guide to it? - Very straightforward.
0:22:10 > 0:22:17The Iliad comes at the end of a ten-year terrible siege, total war, this Trojan...
0:22:17 > 0:22:21the Trojan city by the Greeks, and the high command, the army's starting to fall out,
0:22:21 > 0:22:25they haven't captured the city, the high command are falling out.
0:22:25 > 0:22:28The leader Agamemnon steals the slave girl of Achilles, his finest warrior.
0:22:28 > 0:22:32And Achilles goes into a huge slump, he refuses to fight for the Greeks
0:22:32 > 0:22:35and, as a result, the Trojans almost succeed in pushing them back.
0:22:35 > 0:22:39Then Achilles's best friend Patroclus is killed
0:22:39 > 0:22:42and that brings Achilles back into the fighting.
0:22:42 > 0:22:46He then leads the Greeks, this big resurgence, and in the end...
0:22:46 > 0:22:51the end of The Iliad is Achilles killing this great tragic hero,
0:22:51 > 0:22:54Hector, the Trojan warrior.
0:22:54 > 0:22:58And actually, of course, you don't hear about the fall of Troy in The Iliad,
0:22:58 > 0:23:00that comes in The Odyssey.
0:23:00 > 0:23:02And it helped you through a particular incident?
0:23:02 > 0:23:06Yeah. I was sailing across the Atlantic. When Dad and I sailed across the Atlantic,
0:23:06 > 0:23:11the deal was that I would sail back and Dad said, "I don't want the boat getting left in the Caribbean!"
0:23:11 > 0:23:15- It had taken you how long? - It took about two or three weeks to get there.
0:23:15 > 0:23:19Dad said, "I've got to get back to work now, so bring it back." So I said, "Sure."
0:23:19 > 0:23:23I rang all my friends, none of whom were available at short notice to sail back,
0:23:23 > 0:23:25so I had to press-gang a few people at the last minute.
0:23:25 > 0:23:28Just put together a crew, many of whom had never sailed.
0:23:28 > 0:23:33We're in this huge storm on the way in the middle of the Atlantic, the worst storm I'd ever been in.
0:23:33 > 0:23:36And everyone else was down below, and the hatches were all closed,
0:23:36 > 0:23:41and our autopilot broke so someone had to be up on deck steering the ship through this big, big storm.
0:23:41 > 0:23:44It lasted for hours, the whole day, and I had a Walkman
0:23:44 > 0:23:49in those days with a story tape, it was Derek Jacobi reading The Iliad.
0:23:49 > 0:23:54I mean, phenomenal actor, beautiful voice, reading one of the world's greatest pieces of literature.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57And I will never forget it. I remember steering through the storm,
0:23:57 > 0:23:59and it totally took my mind off the, you know,
0:23:59 > 0:24:05- great fear that I was feeling, it just swept me up, it took me to a completely different place.- OK.
0:24:05 > 0:24:12We've had your childhood reads, the books that have influenced you later on, we want to move on to the books
0:24:12 > 0:24:17that you simply enjoyed, or your guilty pleasure, or your beach read.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20Peter, you come first with Tom Clancy, Red Storm Rising.
0:24:20 > 0:24:22Tell me about that.
0:24:22 > 0:24:24I mean, crossing the Atlantic
0:24:24 > 0:24:26with Dan and co, I had to have a good novel,
0:24:26 > 0:24:30and Clancy is just extraordinary, Dan loves him too.
0:24:30 > 0:24:32There's wonderful Jack Ryan.
0:24:32 > 0:24:37I'm absolutely glued to the television when 24's on, and Jack Bauer.
0:24:37 > 0:24:39It's fantastic stuff. You can't...
0:24:39 > 0:24:43You can't turn it off. Tom Clancy is the same, and Jack Ryan.
0:24:43 > 0:24:46But this book is about the great war, of course, that never happened,
0:24:46 > 0:24:51the Cold War breaking out into hot war in Europe in the 1980s, this is about 20 years old, this book.
0:24:51 > 0:24:55There's a coup inside the Kremlin, they turf out the militants, and they do a deal with the West.
0:24:55 > 0:24:58Calm down, Dad. He gets very excited.
0:24:58 > 0:25:01Very exciting, very exciting. You're occasionally quite excited.
0:25:01 > 0:25:02It's boy's stuff.
0:25:02 > 0:25:05It's boy's stuff, and it is escape.
0:25:05 > 0:25:08This is real, frankly, real rubbish, if I may say so.
0:25:08 > 0:25:12- This is just fun to read, it's a page-turner. - This is military rubbish.
0:25:12 > 0:25:15800 pages, and you just turn them one after the other.
0:25:15 > 0:25:19OK. So, 800 pages of military rubbish for Peter,
0:25:19 > 0:25:22your guilty pleasure is quite different, Dan.
0:25:22 > 0:25:24It's Gabriel Garcia Marquez.
0:25:27 > 0:25:29Yeah. It's my favourite novel.
0:25:29 > 0:25:31I'm not even that guilty about it.
0:25:31 > 0:25:35I don't like fantasy, and I don't like magic books, but I like magic realism.
0:25:35 > 0:25:38I like Marquez, I like Rushdie, I just find...
0:25:38 > 0:25:43The reason is because my grandmother, who we call Nain because she's Welsh, she comes from
0:25:43 > 0:25:45this incredible tradition of Welsh storytelling -
0:25:45 > 0:25:48we used to sit round her feet and she'd tell us stories,
0:25:48 > 0:25:51and all her stories would be about families and generations,
0:25:51 > 0:25:54and the sins of fathers being visited upon their children,
0:25:54 > 0:25:57she'd tell us about her families, and they all had a hint of magic.
0:25:57 > 0:26:02It was a universe we recognised, but it was just surrounded with a tiny little hint of magic.
0:26:02 > 0:26:05- And this is a family history? - Yes, over a few generations,
0:26:05 > 0:26:09living in a world that we recognise but occasionally there's an intervention.
0:26:09 > 0:26:14It's exactly how I remember my nain telling me stories when we were growing up.
0:26:14 > 0:26:18- When were you reading it?- I read this on my gap year when I was travelling round hot climes,
0:26:18 > 0:26:23desperate to fall in love with people and have romantic experiences and feel the magic.
0:26:23 > 0:26:29I suppose I vaguely imagined myself as one of the characters in this book when I was 18.
0:26:29 > 0:26:35Now, if you had to choose just one book to recommend, which of yours would you choose, Peter?
0:26:35 > 0:26:39I think the one that makes you laugh. I mean, the one that makes you laugh.
0:26:39 > 0:26:41- Evanovich.- Mrs Snow's book?
0:26:41 > 0:26:44Mrs Snow's book, and thank goodness for Mrs Snow. She's right.
0:26:44 > 0:26:47Indeed. What about you, Dan?
0:26:47 > 0:26:49I'm afraid I would choose Dreadnought.
0:26:49 > 0:26:54It shows that history can be as readable as anything else on this table
0:26:54 > 0:26:59and, frankly, is almost more important than anything else on this table.
0:26:59 > 0:27:03Much more serous and sensible answer than mine, by the way. Quite right.
0:27:03 > 0:27:05What do you think your choices say about you, Peter?
0:27:05 > 0:27:10Oh, that although my feet are fairly firmly anchored on the ground,
0:27:10 > 0:27:13I'm an incurable romantic and an escapist. I think the same for him.
0:27:13 > 0:27:21I think that Dad's books tell you that he's a man of extremely eclectic and eccentric interests,
0:27:21 > 0:27:25none of which have anything to do with each other. So, I mean, it's...
0:27:25 > 0:27:29When he told me about his five books I was like, "They make no sense!"
0:27:29 > 0:27:31Completely mad.
0:27:31 > 0:27:33And your five books, what do they say about you?
0:27:33 > 0:27:37I think they probably say I've got incredibly mainstream tastes.
0:27:37 > 0:27:38- All fairly obvious.- There we are.
0:27:38 > 0:27:43Thank you, Peter and Dan Snow for joining me on My Life In Books.
0:27:43 > 0:27:47APPLAUSE