0:00:18 > 0:00:20Hello and welcome to My Life In Books,
0:00:20 > 0:00:23a chance for guests to chat about their favourite books
0:00:23 > 0:00:27and why they're important. Joining me tonight is Sir Tim Rice,
0:00:27 > 0:00:29lyricist, author and cricketing nut,
0:00:29 > 0:00:31although I think it's fair to say
0:00:31 > 0:00:35- your songs have been more successful than your cricket.- This is true.
0:00:35 > 0:00:40To date - 13 Novellos, four Tonys and three Oscars. Not bad.
0:00:40 > 0:00:42Alongside him, Russell Grant,
0:00:42 > 0:00:48without doubt the must-watch star of last year's Strictly.
0:00:48 > 0:00:52Russell, I've never doubted your ability to move and shake.
0:00:52 > 0:00:55I'm sitting still with you tonight, though.
0:00:55 > 0:00:57- Welcome to you both. - Thank you, Anne.
0:00:57 > 0:00:58APPLAUSE
0:01:03 > 0:01:06Tim, we're going to start with your first book.
0:01:06 > 0:01:08Paint us a picture.
0:01:08 > 0:01:11You're growing up in leafy Hertfordshire at the time.
0:01:11 > 0:01:14Yes, I was born at the very end of the War,
0:01:14 > 0:01:17technically in Buckinghamshire, but I grew up in Hertfordshire.
0:01:17 > 0:01:21One of the first books that made an impact on me
0:01:21 > 0:01:23was a grown-up book about astronomy.
0:01:23 > 0:01:26It was a book my father had,
0:01:26 > 0:01:30and he left it lying around the house, carelessly, and I grabbed it.
0:01:30 > 0:01:32I rather defaced it, I'm afraid.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35I was only five and I was writing things in coloured pens
0:01:35 > 0:01:39on some of these beautiful drawings - only because I was so enthusiastic!
0:01:39 > 0:01:41It was a book about the solar system
0:01:41 > 0:01:45and about the possibility of man flying to the moon one day.
0:01:45 > 0:01:47I became obsessed with the planets
0:01:47 > 0:01:51and all the stats involved with the planets.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54I can still recite the moons of Saturn as they then were,
0:01:54 > 0:01:56just from this book.
0:01:56 > 0:01:58My parents thought I was a bit weird.
0:01:58 > 0:02:01I went to the Festival of Britain with my mum in 1951
0:02:01 > 0:02:04and that was a huge celebration of Britain just after the War -
0:02:04 > 0:02:06well, five or six years after the War.
0:02:06 > 0:02:10It was a commemoration also of Prince Albert's 1851 exhibition.
0:02:10 > 0:02:14And at this wonderful Festival of Britain
0:02:14 > 0:02:18there was a model of the solar system with all the planets going round.
0:02:18 > 0:02:22All I wanted to do was sit in front of this,
0:02:22 > 0:02:24and my poor mum went bananas.
0:02:24 > 0:02:28She was keen to see other things and I just sat there saying,
0:02:28 > 0:02:31"Could I watch Saturn do one more lap?"
0:02:31 > 0:02:36- And er, the book in question... - The Conquest Of Space.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41Willy Ley wrote the words and they're brilliant,
0:02:41 > 0:02:46and Chesley Bonestell drew these picture of how, in 1949,
0:02:46 > 0:02:47when the book was published,
0:02:47 > 0:02:51they imagined how the planets and the satellites looked.
0:02:51 > 0:02:55Of course, since then our probes have been all over the shop.
0:02:55 > 0:02:59It's very interesting to see how much has been proven right
0:02:59 > 0:03:03and how much has been proven misguided since 1949.
0:03:03 > 0:03:06We'd like to remind everybody what you looked like at this stage.
0:03:06 > 0:03:10- You're a very pretty little boy. How about that?- Ah, yes!
0:03:10 > 0:03:14- How old were you then?- I think I was probably three or four then.
0:03:14 > 0:03:17But I was definitely a bit weird
0:03:17 > 0:03:21because I was very keen on this grown-up book
0:03:21 > 0:03:24to the exclusion of Noddy and Big Ears to some extent.
0:03:25 > 0:03:29I wrote to the Festival of Britain after it closed down
0:03:29 > 0:03:32because I'd read this wonderful model of the solar system
0:03:32 > 0:03:33was going to be dismantled.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36I wrote to them aged five-and-a-half or six and said,
0:03:36 > 0:03:38"If you don't want it, could I have it?"
0:03:38 > 0:03:42I never got a reply, but they tipped off the Evening News,
0:03:42 > 0:03:44a paper no longer in existence,
0:03:44 > 0:03:47and I was interviewed by the Evening News aged six.
0:03:47 > 0:03:49They came round and I was misquoted.
0:03:49 > 0:03:53I learned early on that papers never get anything right!
0:03:53 > 0:03:56But briefly I was considered a childhood genius,
0:03:56 > 0:03:58but only for about three weeks,
0:03:58 > 0:04:00it all went horribly wrong very soon after that.
0:04:00 > 0:04:04And not to be left out, Russell,
0:04:04 > 0:04:07let's see how beautiful you were at this age.
0:04:07 > 0:04:09How about that?
0:04:09 > 0:04:12Russell, you'd given up on shirts and ties, had you?
0:04:12 > 0:04:13Even at an early age.
0:04:13 > 0:04:16I mean, that was me.
0:04:16 > 0:04:19I'd just won a bonny baby competition
0:04:19 > 0:04:25at some holiday camp in Norfolk, near Great Yarmouth.
0:04:25 > 0:04:27I'm wearing my sun top!
0:04:28 > 0:04:31I don't why - it was the North Sea
0:04:31 > 0:04:33and I'm sure there wasn't much sun coming in there!
0:04:33 > 0:04:37Tim was born in 1944, you're a little later - 1951.
0:04:37 > 0:04:40- Festival of Britain.- Indeed.
0:04:40 > 0:04:43But you're not in leafy Hertfordshire.
0:04:43 > 0:04:45I'm in very leafy Middlesex.
0:04:45 > 0:04:50I was born in Hillingdon in Middlesex just off Long Lane,
0:04:50 > 0:04:54and a few months later I was taken to Harefield in Middlesex
0:04:54 > 0:04:57which became very famous for the heart hospital
0:04:57 > 0:04:59and Professor Magdi Yacoub.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03I had my tonsils out there.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06We moved into a very tiny little flat
0:05:06 > 0:05:08in St Mary's Close, two bedrooms,
0:05:08 > 0:05:14and the evocative sounds of the barges going up the Grand Union
0:05:14 > 0:05:17and the little single, erm,
0:05:17 > 0:05:21aeroplanes that used to land at Denham and Northolt,
0:05:21 > 0:05:28still to this day remind me of my, my, my baby times.
0:05:28 > 0:05:32But your first book is a long way from Middlesex, isn't it?
0:05:32 > 0:05:37- It is.- It's Heidi.- It is. That's a beautiful cover of Heidi.
0:05:37 > 0:05:39- You've got one there. - I've got mine here, right.
0:05:39 > 0:05:41It's a very beautiful cover.
0:05:41 > 0:05:45It's mountains and lots of lovely fantasy pictures
0:05:45 > 0:05:48of a little girl playing with the goats.
0:05:48 > 0:05:50It's everything that I ever wanted.
0:05:50 > 0:05:54My love of mountains began with the illustrations of Heidi.
0:05:54 > 0:05:57It's quite a sad story in parts.
0:05:57 > 0:06:02Heidi basically was taken up the mountain, carted up by Aunty,
0:06:02 > 0:06:08and she lived with Granddad, who was blind, and Peter, the goatherd.
0:06:08 > 0:06:11About three years later, Aunty came back,
0:06:11 > 0:06:14a bit like the Wicked Witch of the West,
0:06:14 > 0:06:17- took her back down the mountain... - Without her being given any warning.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20No, just took her back down and took her to Frankfurt
0:06:20 > 0:06:26where she became a companion to a little girl called Klara.
0:06:26 > 0:06:32Klara was an invalid, and then before you know it, Heidi became ill
0:06:32 > 0:06:34and she was carted back up the mountain.
0:06:34 > 0:06:38Klara came to visit and Peter, the goatherd, became jealous
0:06:38 > 0:06:41and tried to throw Klara off the cliff.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44In the meantime, Heidi had learned how to read in Frankfurt
0:06:44 > 0:06:48and was entertaining Grandfather by reading him lots of books.
0:06:48 > 0:06:53- Will you delight us by reading us an extract?- I will be delighted.
0:06:53 > 0:06:58"Heidi was awakened early in the morning by a loud whistle.
0:06:58 > 0:07:01"When she opened her eyes, a flood of sunshine was pouring through
0:07:01 > 0:07:05"the round window on her bed and the hay close by
0:07:05 > 0:07:09"so that everything about her shone like gold.
0:07:09 > 0:07:11"Heidi looked around her in amazement
0:07:11 > 0:07:13"and did not know where she was.
0:07:13 > 0:07:18"Then she heard her grandfather's deep voice outside
0:07:18 > 0:07:21"and everything came back to her mind -
0:07:21 > 0:07:25"where she had come from, and that now she was up on the Alm
0:07:25 > 0:07:30"with her grandfather and no longer with old Ursel."
0:07:30 > 0:07:32Lovely. I certainly remember Heidi.
0:07:32 > 0:07:36I remember a TV series when I was young, black and white, BBC.
0:07:36 > 0:07:39Heidi was written presumably in the first place in German?
0:07:39 > 0:07:42- That's right, that's right. - Have there been lots of translations?
0:07:42 > 0:07:44All around the world,
0:07:44 > 0:07:47I think 50 million copies around the world have been sold.
0:07:47 > 0:07:49Is there one English translation,
0:07:49 > 0:07:53or could you and I have a go at re-translating it?
0:07:53 > 0:07:56Not tonight, I have to move on to the next book!
0:07:56 > 0:08:00- I'll have a bash in the interval! - Tim, very different for you.
0:08:00 > 0:08:03Already you're showing your interest in cricket.
0:08:03 > 0:08:07I played a bit at prep school when I was pretty small.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10And I got more and more interested
0:08:10 > 0:08:14when my parents got a TV for the coronation in 1953,
0:08:14 > 0:08:17and they had the Ashes on, not ball-by-ball,
0:08:17 > 0:08:19but it was enough to get me hooked.
0:08:19 > 0:08:23And some years later, not that much later, when I was about 12,
0:08:23 > 0:08:24my mum gave me a brilliant novel
0:08:24 > 0:08:27which she'd enjoyed when she was a child,
0:08:27 > 0:08:31written by a very famous author of his day called Ian Hay.
0:08:31 > 0:08:34This was a booked called Pip.
0:08:34 > 0:08:36It was partly a cricket story.
0:08:36 > 0:08:40Pip was a young man, it tells the story of his life from five
0:08:40 > 0:08:42to when he gets married when he's about 30.
0:08:42 > 0:08:44One of the things he's very good at -
0:08:44 > 0:08:47and he has lots of ups and downs - is cricket.
0:08:47 > 0:08:50There are only a couple of chapters which basically are about cricket.
0:08:50 > 0:08:52But it was a very moving story.
0:08:52 > 0:08:55Although it's dated in many ways and it's very old fashioned,
0:08:55 > 0:09:00- it's Downton Abbey, if you like... - Of its time?- Of its time.
0:09:00 > 0:09:03And I still love the book,
0:09:03 > 0:09:06not just because my dear mum gave it to me,
0:09:06 > 0:09:08but because it is a wonderful book
0:09:08 > 0:09:11that captures that era so well,
0:09:11 > 0:09:15the era from about...just before the First World War.
0:09:15 > 0:09:18I was very excited we had an old Penguin edition here,
0:09:18 > 0:09:20but you've done better with your original.
0:09:20 > 0:09:23That Penguin edition is late '30s,
0:09:23 > 0:09:26it's an early Penguin, so in itself it must be worth something,
0:09:26 > 0:09:29although that copy looks rather knackered.
0:09:29 > 0:09:31All the better for looking knackered!
0:09:31 > 0:09:35There are ways of looking knackered, and I'm not sure that book's got it!
0:09:35 > 0:09:40This is a truly wonderful, knackered, in a very good way, copy of Pip.
0:09:40 > 0:09:44- If I may, I'll read one little bit. - Of course.
0:09:44 > 0:09:47I'll have to paraphrase a bit or I'll go on too long,
0:09:47 > 0:09:50but Pip and Pipette, his sister - who was really called Philippa -
0:09:50 > 0:09:53go to a prep school, or a kindergarten, really,
0:09:53 > 0:09:58run by Mr Pocklington, and he gives the kids an intelligence test.
0:09:58 > 0:10:01Every day, or every week, every child goes in
0:10:01 > 0:10:04and is given a thrupenny bit and a penny.
0:10:04 > 0:10:06A thrupenny bit, you all remember those, don't you?
0:10:06 > 0:10:10And the child is asked to choose either the thrupenny bit
0:10:10 > 0:10:14or the penny, to see if he or she understands the value of money.
0:10:14 > 0:10:17"Pipette unhesitatingly picked up the thrupenny bit
0:10:17 > 0:10:19"and was commended for her acumen.
0:10:19 > 0:10:22"Pip, when it came to his turn, selected the penny,
0:10:22 > 0:10:25"and after being soundly rated for his stupidity
0:10:25 > 0:10:28"was cast forth from the study and bidden to learn sense.
0:10:28 > 0:10:32"A week later he was again put to the test and again chose the penny."
0:10:32 > 0:10:34Pip goes on doing this for week after week,
0:10:34 > 0:10:38and all the other boys and girls start taking the mickey out of Pip
0:10:38 > 0:10:40and he's regarded as a bit of a twit.
0:10:40 > 0:10:43His sister is getting a bit worried about this, and she's only six,
0:10:43 > 0:10:48and she hates seeing her older brother being mocked by his friends.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51She says, "Pip, why don't you take the thrupenny bit?
0:10:51 > 0:10:55"If you did he'd stop being so horrid to you.
0:10:55 > 0:10:59"Pip regarded his sister's small eager face with cold scorn.
0:10:59 > 0:11:02"If I once took the thrupenny bit, he replied,
0:11:02 > 0:11:05"he'd stop offering the money altogether.
0:11:05 > 0:11:08"Why, I've made eightpence since I came here."
0:11:08 > 0:11:11LAUGHTER
0:11:11 > 0:11:14"This was the last occasion in their lives on which Pipette ever questioned
0:11:14 > 0:11:17"the wisdom of her beloved brother's actions."
0:11:17 > 0:11:20Delightful. Thank you for that.
0:11:20 > 0:11:24- Oh, very good. Lots of Ps. - Lots of Ps, yes.
0:11:24 > 0:11:28- Pip, Pipette, Pocklington and pennies.- Very interesting.
0:11:28 > 0:11:32Anyway, Pip grows up to be a hunky guy who's, you know...
0:11:32 > 0:11:35He ends up getting married, and the final chapter is about -
0:11:35 > 0:11:40I won't spoil the story, because you're all going to buy it now -
0:11:40 > 0:11:44but he actually has to play a golf game to win the hand of the woman he loves.
0:11:44 > 0:11:48- Is the golf game the finale? - Yes, it's the final chapter.
0:11:48 > 0:11:50That might be exciting for people who like golf?
0:11:50 > 0:11:54- Yes! - Of which Anne is obviously not one!
0:11:56 > 0:11:58Russell, your next choice is called
0:11:58 > 0:12:01The Victoria History Of The County Of Middlesex.
0:12:01 > 0:12:05This is a wonderful, wonderful book
0:12:05 > 0:12:08and it was one of the inspirations for me
0:12:08 > 0:12:12to really get behind where I came from.
0:12:12 > 0:12:18I got pretty sick of being called West London or North London.
0:12:18 > 0:12:23These compass points make little villages
0:12:23 > 0:12:26and hamlets and towns anonymous.
0:12:27 > 0:12:31And we need to understand that, certainly in Middlesex,
0:12:31 > 0:12:33it's the land of the Middle Saxons.
0:12:33 > 0:12:35So when you have these villages,
0:12:35 > 0:12:39they are all very much a history of their own.
0:12:39 > 0:12:44They're all very much... They have their own identity and therefore
0:12:44 > 0:12:47I have a sense of belonging to where I come from -
0:12:47 > 0:12:49Harefield and Middlesex.
0:12:49 > 0:12:53You then get bureaucrats who came along in the '60s and '70s
0:12:53 > 0:12:59who just, in a similar way to the way that the Treaty of Versailles
0:12:59 > 0:13:03cut through tribes and regions and created chaos in the world today,
0:13:03 > 0:13:07they've created chaos in the identity of our local history
0:13:07 > 0:13:12and geography in this country, because of constant changes.
0:13:12 > 0:13:15I wrote at the time to Mrs Thatcher
0:13:15 > 0:13:18because I was so incensed about what Edward Heath had done.
0:13:18 > 0:13:21I think she was incensed about most things Edward Heath did!
0:13:21 > 0:13:25I said to her, "Why have you got rid of where I come from?"
0:13:25 > 0:13:27I got this letter back from a Christopher Chope,
0:13:27 > 0:13:30who I think is still in Parliament.
0:13:30 > 0:13:31The letter read,
0:13:31 > 0:13:33"Dear Mr Grant,
0:13:33 > 0:13:38"just because we have abolished a 76-year-old county council,
0:13:38 > 0:13:43"it does not mean we have abolished a 1,300-year-old county."
0:13:43 > 0:13:47From that moment, I realised that distinction was
0:13:47 > 0:13:50a county of a place is not the same as a county council.
0:13:50 > 0:13:54But it does really explain the confusions,
0:13:54 > 0:13:58so that if you say Wembley you'd say Wembley, Middlesex.
0:13:58 > 0:14:02You listen to news programmes and it could be North London, North West London.
0:14:02 > 0:14:06They don't know where they're coming from, half the news programmes,
0:14:06 > 0:14:08because there is no definite book to tell you.
0:14:08 > 0:14:11I'm 100% behind you - the most awful things
0:14:11 > 0:14:13governments have done since the War,
0:14:13 > 0:14:16ditching half the counties - many of which have come back.
0:14:16 > 0:14:18Who wants Hereford and Worcester?
0:14:18 > 0:14:21Who wants no Rutland, who wants Yorkshire rechanged?
0:14:21 > 0:14:24- The thing is, if you define... - Bring back Middlesex!
0:14:24 > 0:14:27I think we've got how passionate you are. Let's excite you...
0:14:27 > 0:14:31- Shall I put my book down, or can I take it?- You can take it home.
0:14:31 > 0:14:36I thought you'd like this, cos we've found this for you to see - the flag.
0:14:37 > 0:14:41- How about that?- Oh, yes, we raised that just a few months ago.
0:14:41 > 0:14:44Here's me thinking that was the end!
0:14:44 > 0:14:47Eric Pickles, Eric Pickles, a fine figure of a man -
0:14:47 > 0:14:50I look terribly slim next to him...
0:14:50 > 0:14:55They've asked me to be a government advisor on communities and counties.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58We raised the Middlesex flag because they wanted to be
0:14:58 > 0:15:01absolutely sure that everyone knew Middlesex still exists.
0:15:01 > 0:15:06- Well, we've done it for you now. - Middlesex Cricket Club still exists.
0:15:06 > 0:15:10- County Cricket Club. - I think I'll go home!- We're off.
0:15:10 > 0:15:14- It's a very important cause, this. I'm 100% behind you.- Thank you.
0:15:14 > 0:15:19- But we are going to go back to Tim in his 20s.- Yes, far, far away.
0:15:19 > 0:15:21- You've left public school.- Yes.
0:15:21 > 0:15:24You're not at all sure what to do.
0:15:24 > 0:15:28I was a failed lawyer briefly and then I joined EMI Records
0:15:28 > 0:15:33as a management trainee, which really means glorified office boy.
0:15:33 > 0:15:36I felt I had one foot in the music business, which is my one passion.
0:15:36 > 0:15:41During my time there I met - well, I wrote and I heard about
0:15:41 > 0:15:43and wrote to - Andrew Lloyd Webber.
0:15:43 > 0:15:45Then I suddenly found myself into theatre, and he said,
0:15:45 > 0:15:48"I want to write musicals." And I wanted to be Mick Jagger.
0:15:48 > 0:15:51TITTERS
0:15:51 > 0:15:54But he said, "I've written eight musicals already," and he had,
0:15:54 > 0:15:56and would I like to write the words?
0:15:56 > 0:15:59"Do you know anything about theatre?" And I said, "Of course."
0:15:59 > 0:16:03We then began a long and winding road.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06Can we just see a picture of you at the beginning of that road?
0:16:06 > 0:16:10That was the cover of Joseph, the first album we did together.
0:16:10 > 0:16:13Joseph had a very gentle beginning, didn't it?
0:16:13 > 0:16:14I happened to be in the audience
0:16:14 > 0:16:18when you were telling a theatre full of undergraduates
0:16:18 > 0:16:20about how Joseph came to be.
0:16:20 > 0:16:25I must say, I thought they walked out and probably thought they could all write a hit musical.
0:16:25 > 0:16:30You make it sound as if it's just falling off a log.
0:16:30 > 0:16:34Well, Joseph was by far the easiest piece I've ever worked on.
0:16:34 > 0:16:36Partly because one was young, enthusiastic,
0:16:36 > 0:16:40didn't have too many distractions, and also it was basically funny.
0:16:40 > 0:16:42It's much easier, certainly for me,
0:16:42 > 0:16:45to write something funny than something serious.
0:16:45 > 0:16:46If you write a love ballad,
0:16:46 > 0:16:49it's much harder because everything's been said.
0:16:49 > 0:16:53But if you're writing a song about a bloke who's got a coloured coat
0:16:53 > 0:16:58and his brothers don't like him, it hasn't been done an awful lot before.
0:16:58 > 0:17:02I mean, I'm sure somebody's written the Joseph story
0:17:02 > 0:17:05and set it to music, but with humour you can use almost any word.
0:17:05 > 0:17:10The weirder the word, the better. Joseph was effortless for us both.
0:17:10 > 0:17:14I have to say, 40 years later and arrogantly, it was also quite good.
0:17:14 > 0:17:17We didn't know at the time that it was that good,
0:17:17 > 0:17:22and we never imagined that 40 years later it would still be around.
0:17:22 > 0:17:25This book you've chosen as your next book,
0:17:25 > 0:17:28The Code Of The Woosters, PG Wodehouse,
0:17:28 > 0:17:31not unsurprising given your cricket and your background,
0:17:31 > 0:17:34that this would be one of your choices.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37It's perhaps an unoriginal choice.
0:17:37 > 0:17:41Shortly after Andrew and I had a lucky break with Superstar,
0:17:41 > 0:17:45we were going to - first time ever - flying to New York.
0:17:45 > 0:17:49Jumbo jets had only just started and I couldn't believe the jumbo jet,
0:17:49 > 0:17:52that was a thrill. We were at the back of the plane and my mum,
0:17:52 > 0:17:55who was a great Wodehouse fan, had been saying for years,
0:17:55 > 0:17:57"You must read PG Wodehouse."
0:17:57 > 0:18:00I hadn't, and I was 25, 26.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03She gave me the Code Of The Woosters to read while I was in America
0:18:03 > 0:18:06because, "You won't have anything else to do there," she thought.
0:18:06 > 0:18:10I read the book on the plane going out, and I was in hysterics the whole way
0:18:10 > 0:18:13and I became a Jeeves and Wodehouse fanatic
0:18:13 > 0:18:17to the extent that Andrew and I, after Superstar,
0:18:17 > 0:18:20decided to write a musical based on Jeeves.
0:18:20 > 0:18:25It was probably a mistake, because I found particularly
0:18:25 > 0:18:30I couldn't begin to match the wit of PG Wodehouse through lyrics.
0:18:30 > 0:18:32I pulled out of the project.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35What was embarrassing was that we'd met the great man
0:18:35 > 0:18:39to get permission to do it, and he was very old by then.
0:18:39 > 0:18:42But not disappointing? It's sometimes a mistake, isn't it?
0:18:42 > 0:18:44No, it was great to meet him.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47He was exactly as one imagined and he lived out in Long Island in New York.
0:18:47 > 0:18:51I remember very clearly we posed for some photographs
0:18:51 > 0:18:53and I thought, "This is fantastic.
0:18:53 > 0:18:56"Even if the musical's a total turkey, I've met PG Wodehouse."
0:18:56 > 0:19:00Andrew and I posed with him, and my terribly trendy camera, in the days
0:19:00 > 0:19:03when you had to take your pictures to Boots to get them printed.
0:19:03 > 0:19:07When I got them back in England about two weeks later,
0:19:07 > 0:19:11I found I'd somehow cretinously exposed most of the film
0:19:11 > 0:19:15and all I got out of what should have been 24 lovely pictures,
0:19:15 > 0:19:18of which 22 would have been me and Andrew and PG Wodehouse,
0:19:18 > 0:19:23I got two pictures, both of Andrew, which I didn't need!
0:19:23 > 0:19:26LAUGHTER
0:19:26 > 0:19:30So I have no proof, except, when I decided to pull out of the musical,
0:19:30 > 0:19:32I was so embarrassed I wrote a letter to PG Wodehouse
0:19:32 > 0:19:34which took me forever to construct,
0:19:34 > 0:19:38and I got a charming letter back from him saying, "Fully understand".
0:19:38 > 0:19:44- That I have kept.- Meanwhile, Russell, sticking with history.
0:19:44 > 0:19:48- Your next choice is A History Of The Reign Of Queen Anne.- Yes.
0:19:48 > 0:19:53- A lot of people are surprised at my choices.- Yes, very surprised.
0:19:53 > 0:19:58I think this woman is one of the great Britons.
0:19:58 > 0:20:03She is a woman who is very stoic.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06She had 17 pregnancies.
0:20:06 > 0:20:10Her one son only lasted until he was about 11 years old.
0:20:10 > 0:20:15She presided over the union of the parliaments of England and Scotland.
0:20:15 > 0:20:20I just think she's a lovely, lovely woman. Lovely woman!
0:20:20 > 0:20:23She's a great woman and I think she's fantastic!
0:20:23 > 0:20:25Queen Anne!
0:20:25 > 0:20:28That's nothing to do with you, darling.
0:20:28 > 0:20:31- It is spelt with an "E".- It is.
0:20:31 > 0:20:35Another connection, of course, quite a well known connection,
0:20:35 > 0:20:37is yourself and the Queen Mother.
0:20:37 > 0:20:39Oh, yes. The dear Queen Mother.
0:20:39 > 0:20:45What happened was, I was opening a big exhibition in London at Olympia
0:20:45 > 0:20:49and the Queen Mother was opening the exhibition and she popped along.
0:20:49 > 0:20:51She only meant to stay for three minutes,
0:20:51 > 0:20:54but stayed for half an hour and had a reading.
0:20:54 > 0:20:58At that point, all the papers then had titles which were
0:20:58 > 0:21:01"Astrologer Royal, By Royal Appointment".
0:21:01 > 0:21:06- That's you there, Russell, looking like David Essex!- ..Like David Essex.
0:21:06 > 0:21:08We never rehearsed that!
0:21:08 > 0:21:11What did you tell the Queen Mother?
0:21:11 > 0:21:17At that point I'm explaining to her that she was a Leo.
0:21:17 > 0:21:21I said, "Do you know what, Ma'am? If you weren't the Queen Mother,
0:21:21 > 0:21:26"you'd make a wonderful impresario like Delfont or Grade."
0:21:26 > 0:21:30To which she said, "Quite so, quite so."
0:21:30 > 0:21:33The Queen Mother did launch your television career as an astrologer.
0:21:33 > 0:21:35She was fantastic.
0:21:35 > 0:21:38It was never meant to be, it just kind of happened.
0:21:38 > 0:21:40March 10th, 1978.
0:21:40 > 0:21:44- What time?- 3.20 in the afternoon.
0:21:44 > 0:21:49- I think this is early '80s, this is BBC Breakfast.- Oh, look.
0:21:49 > 0:21:53Sagittarius. If you're walking down the prom, prom, prom,
0:21:53 > 0:21:57packing for your vacation or looking for a break, you're A-OK.
0:21:57 > 0:22:00If you're a stay-at-home archer,
0:22:00 > 0:22:02I suggest you go out on an away day
0:22:02 > 0:22:06and let the bracing ozone or sea air blow over your body.
0:22:06 > 0:22:08Oh, lovely!
0:22:08 > 0:22:10APPLAUSE
0:22:14 > 0:22:17I do have to say, those jumpers, which still plague me to this day...
0:22:17 > 0:22:20I was disappointed you didn't arrive in a colourful jumper.
0:22:20 > 0:22:22Darling, I'm 60 years old.
0:22:22 > 0:22:26If I still walked around like that, they'd think something was definitely wrong.
0:22:26 > 0:22:29Savoir faire! Debonair!
0:22:29 > 0:22:34To bring us up to near about now, your final choice of book
0:22:34 > 0:22:36is something you're working on, isn't it?
0:22:36 > 0:22:42Yes, I've chosen a book which I've admired for, I guess, 20 years
0:22:42 > 0:22:45- since I first read it. - You've got a copy there.
0:22:45 > 0:22:47This is From Here To Eternity.
0:22:47 > 0:22:50This was a hugely successful book in the middle of the 20th century,
0:22:50 > 0:22:53written by James Jones.
0:22:53 > 0:22:55It was made into a very successful movie
0:22:55 > 0:22:58starring Burt Lancaster, Frank Sinatra,
0:22:58 > 0:23:03Deborah Kerr, Montgomery Clift. A fantastic line-up.
0:23:03 > 0:23:07Basically, it tells the story of some GIs in Hawaii,
0:23:07 > 0:23:11just before Pearl Harbor, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor
0:23:11 > 0:23:14and the entire US Navy virtually without telling them,
0:23:14 > 0:23:16ie, they didn't declare war.
0:23:16 > 0:23:21That's one aspect of the story, these soldiers and the life they lived
0:23:21 > 0:23:24waiting for war they know is coming but they aren't sure when or how.
0:23:24 > 0:23:27But also it's two wonderful love stories
0:23:27 > 0:23:31involving a young loner who is a private called Prewitt
0:23:31 > 0:23:36who is involved with a kind of hooker, an escort lady
0:23:36 > 0:23:39who is an American and works in a Honolulu bar.
0:23:39 > 0:23:43She's come from Oregon and she'll go back to being respectable once she's made a few bob.
0:23:43 > 0:23:46Another torrid affair,
0:23:46 > 0:23:49which is the Burt Lancaster-Deborah Kerr famous scene on the beach,
0:23:49 > 0:23:53where they're lying on the beach in their very respectable swimsuits
0:23:53 > 0:23:55and the waves rush over them.
0:23:55 > 0:23:58That's an affair between the non-commissioned officer,
0:23:58 > 0:24:02the sergeant, and his boss's - the colonel's - wife.
0:24:02 > 0:24:07I have decided I'm giving it a go as my next musical.
0:24:07 > 0:24:11I've written a song about the colonel's wife
0:24:11 > 0:24:14who is in her late 30s.
0:24:14 > 0:24:17She knows her marriage is a mess, she's had a son
0:24:17 > 0:24:18but it's not going right,
0:24:18 > 0:24:21and she thinks there must be more to life than this.
0:24:21 > 0:24:24And there's a wonderful word or phrase in it -
0:24:24 > 0:24:27"there must be another language."
0:24:27 > 0:24:29I'll read you a quick paragraph, which...
0:24:29 > 0:24:31She's going to have this affair,
0:24:31 > 0:24:34she knows she's going to have the affair with the sergeant.
0:24:34 > 0:24:36She's excited about it, but also frightened.
0:24:36 > 0:24:39She says, or the book says,
0:24:39 > 0:24:42"There must be more, there must be, something told her,
0:24:42 > 0:24:48"some place, somewhere, there must be another reason above, beyond.
0:24:48 > 0:24:52"Somewhere, another equation besides this virgin plus marriage,
0:24:52 > 0:24:55"plus motherhood, plus grandmotherhood,
0:24:55 > 0:24:58"equals honour, justification, death.
0:24:58 > 0:25:03"There must be another language - forgotten, unheard, unspoken -
0:25:03 > 0:25:08"than the owning of an American's homey kitchen complete with dinette,
0:25:08 > 0:25:11"breakfast nook and fluorescent lighting."
0:25:11 > 0:25:15- Wonderful. What's your song called? - Another Language.- Lovely.
0:25:15 > 0:25:19We stay with Hollywood, really, for your final book.
0:25:19 > 0:25:26It's Ingrid, it's quite a recent biography of Ingrid Bergman
0:25:26 > 0:25:28by Charlotte Chandler.
0:25:28 > 0:25:33- Why this, Russell?- I just think she is beauty personified.
0:25:33 > 0:25:37I think she's probably the greatest actress, in my opinion,
0:25:37 > 0:25:39that we've ever seen in movies.
0:25:39 > 0:25:43If you're gay, you're meant to like Judy Garland and Marilyn Monroe
0:25:43 > 0:25:46and Bette Davis and Joan Crawford.
0:25:46 > 0:25:50I love all of those - just in case you wondered, yes, I'm gay.
0:25:50 > 0:25:53Might not have crossed your mind!
0:25:53 > 0:25:57So, but Ingrid Bergman is not the natural choice.
0:25:57 > 0:26:01I go for Ingrid Bergman because she is an actor of great depths
0:26:01 > 0:26:03and great dimensions.
0:26:03 > 0:26:05Did you learn anything new from the book?
0:26:05 > 0:26:09I did. I think what I learned about her was that -
0:26:09 > 0:26:12again, talking about strong, powerful women -
0:26:12 > 0:26:16that if she decided to do something, she was going to do it
0:26:16 > 0:26:18and nothing would stop her.
0:26:18 > 0:26:21Yet, some of the roles she played you'd think she was very supple
0:26:21 > 0:26:24and malleable, but in fact she wasn't.
0:26:24 > 0:26:26When she wanted to do something, she would.
0:26:26 > 0:26:30She was a much stronger woman than I anticipated.
0:26:30 > 0:26:37Russell, we were going to end with an obvious clip with you on Strictly
0:26:37 > 0:26:42but actually we thought this was even more fun because it showed your talent...
0:26:42 > 0:26:46- To amuse. - ..To amuse very much earlier.
0:26:46 > 0:26:51- This is you on the Keith Harris Show in 1983.- Oh, no!
0:26:51 > 0:26:53# Scorpio
0:26:53 > 0:26:56# Taurus, Gemini, Virgo
0:26:56 > 0:27:00# Cancer, Pisces, Leo, Libra, Aries
0:27:00 > 0:27:03# I don't care about your rising sun
0:27:03 > 0:27:06# All I know is when your hands touch mine you move me on
0:27:06 > 0:27:08# Good vibrations!
0:27:08 > 0:27:10# You really move me on
0:27:10 > 0:27:12# No matter what sign you are
0:27:12 > 0:27:16# You're going to be mine Yes, you are
0:27:16 > 0:27:17# Hold me tight
0:27:17 > 0:27:21# Oooh, hold me, hold me, hold me, hold me. #
0:27:21 > 0:27:23APPLAUSE
0:27:24 > 0:27:28- You thought you'd never see it again! - No, exactly.
0:27:28 > 0:27:32Tim, what about Russell - The Musical?
0:27:32 > 0:27:34I think Russell - The Musical would be a sell-out.
0:27:34 > 0:27:36That's your next project.
0:27:36 > 0:27:40- So funny.- I'm not going to write it! - It could be cricket!- Oh, yes.
0:27:40 > 0:27:42LAUGHTER
0:27:42 > 0:27:46You two have been a delight. Thank you very much.
0:27:46 > 0:27:47APPLAUSE
0:27:49 > 0:27:52Thank you, Russell Grant and Tim Rice.
0:27:52 > 0:27:55Just to remind you, everybody, that details for this series
0:27:55 > 0:27:58are on the BBC website...
0:28:02 > 0:28:05There's also more about our guests and their book choices,
0:28:05 > 0:28:07and you can even hear them read a passage
0:28:07 > 0:28:10from their favourite children's book.
0:28:10 > 0:28:13Meanwhile, please join me again tomorrow night. Good night.
0:28:13 > 0:28:15APPLAUSE
0:28:25 > 0:28:28Subtitles by Red Bee Media