0:00:18 > 0:00:21Thank you, and hello and welcome to My Life In Books,
0:00:21 > 0:00:25a chance for our guests to chat about their favourite reads
0:00:25 > 0:00:26and what they mean to them.
0:00:26 > 0:00:29Here tonight, Keith Allen, actor, pop star,
0:00:29 > 0:00:32documentary maker, famous dad,
0:00:32 > 0:00:34and very often, a whole heap of naughty.
0:00:34 > 0:00:37Alongside him, the distinguished editor of British Vogue,
0:00:37 > 0:00:39Alexandra Shulman.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42So obviously, I've changed my outfit about four times
0:00:42 > 0:00:47before settling on this one. It's great to see you both.
0:00:47 > 0:00:51APPLAUSE
0:00:52 > 0:00:56Alexandra, you're the daughter of two very distinguished journalists -
0:00:56 > 0:01:00your father was a famous theatre critic, Milton,
0:01:00 > 0:01:03and your mother was one of my heroines,
0:01:03 > 0:01:06because I was in Fleet Street in the '60s,
0:01:06 > 0:01:11and she was very much the name to celebrate, wasn't she, at that time.
0:01:11 > 0:01:16Yes, she was one of the first women to work full-time on Fleet Street.
0:01:16 > 0:01:19She worked all the way through, so I had a working mother all my life,
0:01:19 > 0:01:22which is a great help when I became a mother myself,
0:01:22 > 0:01:24and went straight back to work and worked full-time.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27I knew that you didn't have to damage your kids.
0:01:27 > 0:01:29Yes, and she wasn't frowning on it either.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32Oh, no. No, she would have frowned if I hadn't worked.
0:01:32 > 0:01:36- And was it a house full of opinions? - Very much so.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39I remember one of my friends coming to dinner with us
0:01:39 > 0:01:43and going back to school the next day and saying to everyone in the class,
0:01:43 > 0:01:46"I can't understand it. They just argued all the time."
0:01:46 > 0:01:50And we... I said, "No, it's not arguing, it's discussing."
0:01:50 > 0:01:55You know, we always all had lots of chats, lots of opinions.
0:01:55 > 0:01:59And living in just about the smartest part of London - Belgravia.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02Yeah, it's a funny thing I was brought up right
0:02:02 > 0:02:05in the most expensive square in London.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08It makes us sound like we were kind of princesses or something,
0:02:08 > 0:02:14but actually my dad came to Britain in the war, in the Canadian army,
0:02:14 > 0:02:19and didn't have any money at all and got a job eventually as a journalist
0:02:19 > 0:02:22and he just decided that he was going to live in the best place
0:02:22 > 0:02:25he could and he was determined to stay there, all his life,
0:02:25 > 0:02:30- right in the middle of London. - Keith, you were quite a long way from Eaton Square, weren't you?
0:02:30 > 0:02:32- No. - LAUGHTER
0:02:32 > 0:02:36- No, I lived in Eaton Square. - But growing up?- Not growing up.
0:02:36 > 0:02:41I was born in Wales, but I was brought up in Gosport,
0:02:41 > 0:02:44which is close to a naval base, HMS Dolphin.
0:02:44 > 0:02:46So it was very communal, actually.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48- Was your father an officer?- No.
0:02:48 > 0:02:51No, he went in as a naval seaman,
0:02:51 > 0:02:53and came out as a...what they call an ERA.
0:02:53 > 0:02:56So living in naval accommodation,
0:02:56 > 0:02:59were you very conscious who was an officer's child and...?
0:02:59 > 0:03:02No, not at all. I'm sorry to disappoint you. No, ha-ha!
0:03:02 > 0:03:05I was having far too much fun playing with anybody I could
0:03:05 > 0:03:09- to worry about class.- Yeah. - Class didn't affect me at all.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12Not until I was about 11 or 12.
0:03:12 > 0:03:15And Alexandra, the first book you've chosen,
0:03:15 > 0:03:18which is Ballet Shoes, by Noel Streatfeild,
0:03:18 > 0:03:21it's...it very much...
0:03:21 > 0:03:24mirrors the kind of life you were living.
0:03:24 > 0:03:28- Tell us about the book. - Well, for anyone that hasn't read it,
0:03:28 > 0:03:32it was a book about three orphans
0:03:32 > 0:03:36who were adopted by a man who was a fossil collector.
0:03:36 > 0:03:40And they were able to kind of fulfil their dreams,
0:03:40 > 0:03:43and I think that's what's so enchanting about the book,
0:03:43 > 0:03:45all these girls, they all have these great dreams,
0:03:45 > 0:03:50- and they're able to become those people.- Did you go to ballet classes?
0:03:50 > 0:03:54I was forced at school to do ballet
0:03:54 > 0:03:57and I gave it up as quickly as I could
0:03:57 > 0:04:01because I was always cast and told that I had to be the thunderstorm,
0:04:01 > 0:04:04whereas all my friends were the raindrops.
0:04:04 > 0:04:06LAUGHTER
0:04:06 > 0:04:09It really wasn't my thing!
0:04:09 > 0:04:12Keith, were you in a house full of books?
0:04:12 > 0:04:13Oh, yes.
0:04:13 > 0:04:16And I was constantly at ballet class, you know...
0:04:16 > 0:04:19- LAUGHTER - Not that I remember, no.
0:04:19 > 0:04:22My dad to this day tries to convince me
0:04:22 > 0:04:26that I was brought up reading Jungle Book, but I can't remember any of them.
0:04:26 > 0:04:30The only books that I remember reading as a child, and I used to read them avidly,
0:04:30 > 0:04:33were the Enid Blyton books, The Secret Seven and Famous Five.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36- You've chosen The Secret Seven, actually.- Yeah, yeah.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38I clearly remember as a child,
0:04:38 > 0:04:42because the adventures were kind of so normal,
0:04:42 > 0:04:44they were based on very normal events,
0:04:44 > 0:04:48like an observation of, you know, a car driving down a certain street,
0:04:48 > 0:04:52stopping at a certain place. And it meant that I did spend a lot of time
0:04:52 > 0:04:55looking for mystery and adventure...
0:04:55 > 0:04:59- Yeah.- ..like the milkman appearing at eight o'clock.
0:04:59 > 0:05:02I'd think, "What is he doing? Delivering milk? I don't think so."
0:05:02 > 0:05:05LAUGHTER
0:05:05 > 0:05:09I remember every summer as a child, we would go and stay at my uncle's smallholding in Carmarthen.
0:05:09 > 0:05:14He was a farmer there. And all our summers were spent in Wales,
0:05:14 > 0:05:17two weeks of which would be on the farm.
0:05:17 > 0:05:21And myself and my cousin would sleep in the attic
0:05:21 > 0:05:24- and there was a window there.- Yeah.
0:05:24 > 0:05:28I swear, this is true, you'd look out, and of course now I look back I know what it was,
0:05:28 > 0:05:31there would be a light some distance away and trees would move, the wind.
0:05:31 > 0:05:36But no, it wasn't, it was obviously a smuggler, you know, with a torch.
0:05:36 > 0:05:38We would creep out at midnight, you know,
0:05:38 > 0:05:42get about 50 yards from the house and go, "No, should we go back?"
0:05:42 > 0:05:44A bit dodgy. But, yeah...
0:05:44 > 0:05:47- You didn't have Scamper the dog to help you.- No, no, we didn't.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50- Sorry. - LAUGTHER
0:05:50 > 0:05:53Alexandra, your second choice of book
0:05:53 > 0:05:56is The White Album, by Joan Didion. Tell us about it.
0:05:56 > 0:06:01Well, Joan Didion is one of my favourite writers.
0:06:01 > 0:06:05I guess I started reading her when I was about 19.
0:06:05 > 0:06:08And she and her husband were a golden couple,
0:06:08 > 0:06:10they were screenwriters in Hollywood.
0:06:10 > 0:06:12- Yeah.- Were you attracted to Hollywood?
0:06:12 > 0:06:15Los Angeles is a place I completely loved.
0:06:15 > 0:06:19I went for a year just before I left school
0:06:19 > 0:06:23- and I fell in love with it totally. - That's you at 17.- Yeah, yeah.
0:06:23 > 0:06:26- Ha-ha-ha!- It's very much a picture of... What I love is...
0:06:26 > 0:06:30- Sorry, I'm only laughing cos it's so LA.- Ha-ha! And so 17.
0:06:30 > 0:06:35But also, I believe that chair, that wicker chair, almost everyone has been photographed on the chair.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37LAUGHTER
0:06:37 > 0:06:39At some point, yeah!
0:06:39 > 0:06:41So, Joan Didion...
0:06:41 > 0:06:45The White Album is a collection of her journalism, her essays,
0:06:45 > 0:06:47about America, really,
0:06:47 > 0:06:52and America at a time when the '60s were turning into the '70s.
0:06:52 > 0:06:54And what attracted ME to her,
0:06:54 > 0:06:58and indeed a lot of the new journalism of that time,
0:06:58 > 0:07:03was that she always made the journalist impersonal in some ways.
0:07:03 > 0:07:06So, in a way, she was one of the first kind of 'me writers.'
0:07:06 > 0:07:10Now every time you open a newspaper, it's all about the journalist,
0:07:10 > 0:07:14the pictures of the women, taken about my marriage break-up or the clothes I wear.
0:07:14 > 0:07:16But at that time, it wasn't like that.
0:07:16 > 0:07:19Journalism was serious, and she was the one who'd start
0:07:19 > 0:07:22writing about her nervous breakdowns and her children
0:07:22 > 0:07:26and her family whilst reporting on other things.
0:07:26 > 0:07:30Alexandra, will you give us a taste with a reading from The White Album?
0:07:31 > 0:07:34"I recall a time when the dogs barked every night
0:07:34 > 0:07:36"and the moon was always full.
0:07:36 > 0:07:41"On August 9, 1969, I was sitting in the shallow end
0:07:41 > 0:07:44"of my sister-in-law's swimming pool in Beverly Hills
0:07:44 > 0:07:48"when she received a telephone call from a friend who had just heard
0:07:48 > 0:07:52"about the murders at Sharon Tate Polanski's house on Cielo Drive.
0:07:52 > 0:07:57"The phone rang many times during the next hour.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00"These early reports were garbled and contradictory.
0:08:00 > 0:08:03"One caller would say hoods, the next would say chains.
0:08:03 > 0:08:08"There were 20 dead. No, 12. No, ten, 18.
0:08:08 > 0:08:12"Black masses were imagined, and bad trips blamed.
0:08:12 > 0:08:17"I remember all of the day's misinformation very clearly,
0:08:17 > 0:08:20"and I also remember this, and wish I did not -
0:08:20 > 0:08:23"I remember that no-one was surprised."
0:08:25 > 0:08:29Somebody described her writing as it's like an icy pond
0:08:29 > 0:08:32- where there might be sharks underneath.- Brilliant. Yeah.- Yeah.
0:08:32 > 0:08:37Now, Keith, what were you up to in your school years?
0:08:37 > 0:08:40- Being a good boy? - Oh, yes, I was very studious(!)
0:08:40 > 0:08:43LAUGHTER
0:08:43 > 0:08:47No, I was very busy getting expelled from everywhere.
0:08:47 > 0:08:50Were you still, were you in Gosport, or were you...?
0:08:50 > 0:08:54Well, my father, bless his heart, he thought he was a socialist at the time
0:08:54 > 0:08:56and where I was in Hampshire,
0:08:56 > 0:09:00- they... It was the first place to have a comprehensive.- Yeah.
0:09:00 > 0:09:02And I'd passed my 11+
0:09:02 > 0:09:06and all my friends had passed their 11+,
0:09:06 > 0:09:09and they all went to Gosport Grammar, and my dad in his wisdom thought,
0:09:09 > 0:09:13"No, I'm a socialist, I'll send him to comprehensive,"
0:09:13 > 0:09:16which was the worst thing that he ever did.
0:09:16 > 0:09:18- Why?- Well, one because it cut me off from my friends.
0:09:18 > 0:09:22- And not only that, there were girls so that was the end of it. - LAUGTHER
0:09:22 > 0:09:27Yes, ruin. I mean, it was a stage perfectly built for me.
0:09:27 > 0:09:32I was very small, I was five foot until I was 17, incredibly, I know.
0:09:32 > 0:09:35I had to compensate, so I spent most of my childhood showing off.
0:09:35 > 0:09:39So were you at that comp for the rest of your schooling?
0:09:39 > 0:09:43No, no, I went there... I did one year, and then I won a scholarship,
0:09:43 > 0:09:46a naval scholarship to Brentwood Public School.
0:09:46 > 0:09:50Yeah. And you had your little trip, first trip to Borstal, didn't you?
0:09:50 > 0:09:53That was after being expelled from public school, went back to comprehensive,
0:09:53 > 0:09:57- got expelled from there, then went to a detention centre. - Was that nice?
0:09:57 > 0:10:01- I'm just trying to lay the land to explain to you that I never read many books.- Yeah.
0:10:01 > 0:10:05- LAUGHTER - I didn't have time, ha-ha!
0:10:05 > 0:10:08So, Borstal...
0:10:08 > 0:10:12- Best thing that ever happened to me, I think.- Really? You enjoyed it? - I loved institutions, loved them!
0:10:12 > 0:10:18- Why is that?- If you have an institution, it's clearly defined what you're bucking up against,
0:10:18 > 0:10:20who the enemy are. It's very clear.
0:10:20 > 0:10:23It's like having Thatcher as a prime minister - you know who your enemy is.
0:10:23 > 0:10:26- Unlike having Tony Blair, who pretends to be your friend.- Yeah.
0:10:26 > 0:10:30It's easy to know who your enemy is, and in institutions it's simple.
0:10:30 > 0:10:34So you went out from Borstal, you then went on to further education.
0:10:34 > 0:10:40- Yeah, I came out of Borstal, I didn't know what to do and I had O-Levels, you know.- Yeah.
0:10:40 > 0:10:44I'd heard about this thing called student,
0:10:44 > 0:10:49- which I just thought was the most romantic, wonderful thing that a human being could do.- Yeah.
0:10:49 > 0:10:52I met the guy who was to become my best friend,
0:10:52 > 0:10:54he was my tutor, and became my mentor.
0:10:54 > 0:10:57A wonderful jazz guitarist and English teacher called
0:10:57 > 0:11:01- David Williams, who's now dead. - And this is how your next choice...
0:11:01 > 0:11:03The Mill On The Floss, that was on the curriculum.
0:11:03 > 0:11:05- The Mill On The Floss, George Eliot.- Yeah.
0:11:05 > 0:11:07David had become by this time by best friend
0:11:07 > 0:11:10and he was only ten years older than me, and as I say,
0:11:10 > 0:11:11he was a wonderful guitarist,
0:11:11 > 0:11:14so I used to spend all my evenings in jazz clubs,
0:11:14 > 0:11:18up and down the valleys of South Wales with him, you know.
0:11:18 > 0:11:23Sleeping with women, doing all that kind of stuff that young men get up to.
0:11:23 > 0:11:26And then, he would go in the next morning and start to read
0:11:26 > 0:11:30from A Mill On The Floss, you know, and we'd have to study it.
0:11:30 > 0:11:34- Can you remember the story? - I can remember the story, you know,
0:11:34 > 0:11:37of the brother and the sister, Maggie and Tom.
0:11:37 > 0:11:41- I mean, let's just say, first of all, I've gone back to it, I've revisited it.- Yeah.
0:11:41 > 0:11:45George Eliot, I think, is the most wonderful writer,
0:11:45 > 0:11:48a brilliant woman. You talked about that lady being ahead of her time -
0:11:48 > 0:11:53- George Eliot was even further ahead. - Did you know at the time it was a woman?- I had no idea.
0:11:53 > 0:11:56- I thought it was a man.- Would that have made any difference?
0:11:56 > 0:11:58Yeah, of course it would. Ha-ha!
0:11:58 > 0:12:02No, none whatsoever, but I became very aware
0:12:02 > 0:12:05that there was something going on, cos it was the late '60s
0:12:05 > 0:12:09and, you know, feminism and women's rights and everything was to the fore,
0:12:09 > 0:12:14- it was the kind of discussion of the day.- Did you have time to decide whether she was a feminist,
0:12:14 > 0:12:18- or were you too busy...?- I never got to the end of the book, to be honest
0:12:18 > 0:12:20because I didn't take the exams, ha-ha!
0:12:20 > 0:12:22I was having too much fun.
0:12:22 > 0:12:26Alexandra, any jail at this time for you?
0:12:26 > 0:12:29LAUGHTER Sadly not, no.
0:12:29 > 0:12:31She was in a prison of her own making.
0:12:31 > 0:12:35- I was, university.- Oh, don't...
0:12:35 > 0:12:37It's interesting that it was Joan Didion that possibly
0:12:37 > 0:12:42set you on the road to journalism rather than your parents, then.
0:12:42 > 0:12:45I think often young people don't want to do what their parents do.
0:12:45 > 0:12:49I mean, you have a quite...
0:12:49 > 0:12:52- You know, you want to carve your own identity.- Yeah.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55I mean, even now, I find it difficult,
0:12:55 > 0:12:58because the fact that I've got journalistic parents always comes up,
0:12:58 > 0:13:01that your parents are journalists. In a way, it'd be more,
0:13:01 > 0:13:04I think I'd be more interesting if I'd done something different,
0:13:04 > 0:13:08but I happened to go down that route and be good at it.
0:13:08 > 0:13:12What you were... I mean, in the late '80s, the early '90s,
0:13:12 > 0:13:17you'd actually achieved the position of editor of GQ magazine,
0:13:17 > 0:13:19which is a huge triumph.
0:13:19 > 0:13:22Was it difficult to take over that sort of role?
0:13:22 > 0:13:25No, it wasn't. It was... It wasn't.
0:13:25 > 0:13:28It was really nice. I loved working with the men on it.
0:13:28 > 0:13:33And they knew all about, you know, Formula 1, and girls and everything.
0:13:33 > 0:13:37And I was quite good at just kind of keeping the team together.
0:13:37 > 0:13:39That's sort of what you do as an editor,
0:13:39 > 0:13:44you're like a conductor, really - you know, come in here and whatever.
0:13:44 > 0:13:46Did you read GQ magazine?
0:13:46 > 0:13:49No, I've never been a reader of that kind of stuff.
0:13:49 > 0:13:53My affiliation with fashion is limited, to say the least.
0:13:53 > 0:13:58How would you describe, Alexandra, Keith's fashion?
0:13:59 > 0:14:02Oh, he's a very trendy, mustard corduroy,
0:14:02 > 0:14:06- very much of the Bowman jacket, I would say.- Yes.
0:14:06 > 0:14:08Wow!
0:14:08 > 0:14:10And also, I quite like the jeans, cos they've got...
0:14:10 > 0:14:13They're trendy, aren't they, with bits...
0:14:13 > 0:14:17- Distressed.- Distressed. - Trendy. This is ridiculous. Trendy.
0:14:17 > 0:14:21- There's holes in this. I'll tell you. Shall I tell you why that's there?- Yes.
0:14:21 > 0:14:24Cos I spend a lot amount of time with my pigs, going,
0:14:24 > 0:14:27"Come on! Come on, pigs!" That's what I do.
0:14:27 > 0:14:28LAUGHTER
0:14:28 > 0:14:31- But what about the bit down the end?- That's a shoe.- No, no.
0:14:31 > 0:14:33LAUGHTER
0:14:33 > 0:14:36- Right. We better get back to books. - LAUGHTER
0:14:36 > 0:14:41Alexandra, your third book is High Fidelity, by Nick Hornby.
0:14:41 > 0:14:45Does that reflect your GQ time? Cos it's a blokey book.
0:14:45 > 0:14:49- I actually read it once I was at Vogue, High Fidelity.- Yeah.
0:14:49 > 0:14:53You know, I just loved it. It's a very funny book.
0:14:53 > 0:14:57I read it, I'd just had my son.
0:14:57 > 0:15:00And somebody told me that you should take a holiday
0:15:00 > 0:15:03eight weeks after you'd had a baby,
0:15:03 > 0:15:07which me and my then husband booked.
0:15:07 > 0:15:12I don't know now why that person thought that was a good idea, taking a baby.
0:15:12 > 0:15:16We went to Mallorca with the screaming baby
0:15:16 > 0:15:19and the whole thing was unbelievably stressful.
0:15:19 > 0:15:22You know, even like getting the flight and everything.
0:15:22 > 0:15:25And I had this book with me and it just made me laugh,
0:15:25 > 0:15:28and I just laughed and laughed and laughed when I had...
0:15:28 > 0:15:32I was actually crying through the nights, trying to feed the baby and...
0:15:32 > 0:15:34I have a real affection for it.
0:15:34 > 0:15:37He makes a list of the five women
0:15:37 > 0:15:39who he's had failed relationships with
0:15:39 > 0:15:42in the hope of finding out...
0:15:42 > 0:15:43Where they went wrong.
0:15:43 > 0:15:46Now, do you think that's a guy thing?
0:15:46 > 0:15:49- No, not really. - No, it's a very girlie thing.
0:15:49 > 0:15:51Keith, have you ever listed...?
0:15:51 > 0:15:54Well, none of my relationships have ever gone wrong.
0:15:54 > 0:15:55Oh, well, I see.
0:15:55 > 0:15:59I mean, in my first two marriages, what happened was...
0:15:59 > 0:16:01LAUGHTER
0:16:03 > 0:16:07So, did you get to the '90s without any more jail?
0:16:07 > 0:16:08Ha-ha.
0:16:08 > 0:16:14- No, there was a brief incarceration in 1984.- Yeah.
0:16:14 > 0:16:18As a result of, you know, shenanigans, just silliness, really.
0:16:18 > 0:16:21I'd...I'd smashed up a night club
0:16:21 > 0:16:24on my own, sober, which isn't the reason I got sent away.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27- Yeah.- And I was sent to Pentonville.
0:16:27 > 0:16:30Anyway, while I was there, I came out on appeal,
0:16:30 > 0:16:34but while I was there, I did manage to grab a book from the library.
0:16:34 > 0:16:38It was a book called Unemployed Struggles 1919-1936.
0:16:38 > 0:16:40- I'm sure you've all got it.- Yeah.
0:16:40 > 0:16:43Written by a guy called Wal Hannington,
0:16:43 > 0:16:47who was a trade union leader, a communist.
0:16:47 > 0:16:50He was imprisoned.
0:16:50 > 0:16:54And there I was, sat in this cell, and I started to read his account
0:16:54 > 0:16:59of being imprisoned in Pentonville in 1926,
0:16:59 > 0:17:02which was roughly 60 years previous,
0:17:02 > 0:17:06- and the astonishing thing was nothing had changed.- Right.
0:17:06 > 0:17:10Absolutely, I could have written it myself.
0:17:10 > 0:17:16I could've taken it verbatim, sent it home and said, "That was my day." It was exactly the same.
0:17:16 > 0:17:19Well, Pentonville, either because of it or in spite of it,
0:17:19 > 0:17:26your...your career was taking off as a stand-up, wasn't it?
0:17:26 > 0:17:30Um... Yeah, yeah, it kind of had, yes.
0:17:30 > 0:17:34- Brave!- No.- Don't you think, Alexandra, to do stand up comedy?
0:17:34 > 0:17:36- Yeah, unbelievable. I can't imagine.- Yeah.
0:17:36 > 0:17:39- Look, can I just make something absolutely clear here?- Yeah.
0:17:39 > 0:17:40Go on, then.
0:17:40 > 0:17:45For, you know, a person with a massive ego
0:17:45 > 0:17:49bordering on, you know, psychopathic narcissism,
0:17:49 > 0:17:54full of self-interest and the extraordinary ability to want to show off
0:17:54 > 0:17:57to any living person in the world,
0:17:57 > 0:18:00to stand on stage and entertain is not brave.
0:18:00 > 0:18:04- It really is not brave. - Let's have a look.- Oh, God!
0:18:04 > 0:18:07- LAUGHTER - No, settle down, settle down.
0:18:07 > 0:18:10Before we go any further, I'd like now to take this opportunity
0:18:10 > 0:18:12to do a little slice of the act for all those grovelling,
0:18:12 > 0:18:16cretinous, moronic comics out there in Noddyland.
0:18:16 > 0:18:17'Where's the camera?'
0:18:17 > 0:18:19I was young!
0:18:19 > 0:18:21Out there in Noddyland,
0:18:21 > 0:18:24desperately wishing they were up here!
0:18:24 > 0:18:26This is for you, boo-boo.
0:18:31 > 0:18:34That was the sound of me earning ten quid!
0:18:34 > 0:18:38LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:18:38 > 0:18:41- It's so bad! - Do you write your own material?
0:18:41 > 0:18:45I never wrote anything, obviously. I never wrote anything down.
0:18:45 > 0:18:48I didn't realise, when we put you two together,
0:18:48 > 0:18:50that your lives obviously...
0:18:50 > 0:18:52- Were so similar! - LAUGHTER
0:18:52 > 0:18:57- Parallel lines. - LAUGTHER
0:18:57 > 0:19:00And Alexandra, this fantastic elevation
0:19:00 > 0:19:05to the top of journalism through the editorship of British Vogue.
0:19:05 > 0:19:11That was year 1992. I'd never worked in fashion before.
0:19:11 > 0:19:15They'd asked, I think, three people I knew, they'd asked to edit it,
0:19:15 > 0:19:18who hadn't accepted the offer.
0:19:18 > 0:19:20It was a very lucky break for me.
0:19:20 > 0:19:24- And it's been a fantastic job and I've kept it for...- 20 years.
0:19:24 > 0:19:26For 20 years now, yeah.
0:19:26 > 0:19:30And there are several things that have marked your time,
0:19:30 > 0:19:33one being huge circulation.
0:19:33 > 0:19:37But also the refreshing thing that you yourself
0:19:37 > 0:19:41had never felt at that time you had to be a slave to fashion
0:19:41 > 0:19:44or to become a double zero size.
0:19:46 > 0:19:49Well, I had a decision to make when I got the job, you know,
0:19:49 > 0:19:54either I was going to try and make myself become something that I...that I wasn't.
0:19:54 > 0:20:01That would be a more normal idea of, I suppose, Vogue editor.
0:20:01 > 0:20:05But, seeing, as I was, a thunderstorm and not the raindrop,
0:20:05 > 0:20:09that was going to be difficult for me,
0:20:09 > 0:20:13so I thought the best thing to do is just try and be the way you are.
0:20:13 > 0:20:15Listen, like everybody, you know,
0:20:15 > 0:20:18would I rather be half a stone thinner? Of course, I would.
0:20:18 > 0:20:22But, I mean, trying to fit into sample sizes every day
0:20:22 > 0:20:25would just be, like, a waste of time.
0:20:25 > 0:20:27And your final book, Alexandra,
0:20:27 > 0:20:30which I love, is The Best Of Everything by Rona Jaffe.
0:20:30 > 0:20:32Yes, fantastic book.
0:20:32 > 0:20:35Everyone I've recommended it to has completely loved it.
0:20:35 > 0:20:38It's about a group of young women who all go
0:20:38 > 0:20:41and work in a New York publishers.
0:20:41 > 0:20:45And it's about them trying to make their way in the world
0:20:45 > 0:20:47and different things that happen to each one.
0:20:47 > 0:20:50The extraordinary thing is reading it,
0:20:50 > 0:20:53you kind of realise that not that much has changed, really,
0:20:53 > 0:20:56from then to now, even though it's 50 years.
0:20:56 > 0:20:59Well, obviously, the world has moved on fantastically for women,
0:20:59 > 0:21:03so what is it you think that makes struggles similar?
0:21:03 > 0:21:07I think women themselves, actually,
0:21:07 > 0:21:11I think that the things that we demand of ourselves...
0:21:11 > 0:21:15the way we feel about ourselves...
0:21:15 > 0:21:20We give ourselves a sort of set of pressures which, in a strange way, haven't changed.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24I mean, in this book, you have a mixture of the kind of the career girls,
0:21:24 > 0:21:29mixed with the ones who just want to get married,
0:21:29 > 0:21:33and the ones who want to be an actress and everything.
0:21:33 > 0:21:35It's really fantastic.
0:21:35 > 0:21:40Keith, I think it's only fair to say by the time you got to the '90s,
0:21:40 > 0:21:42you had very much developed...
0:21:42 > 0:21:45- Yeah, some people... - ..as a serious actor,
0:21:45 > 0:21:49and we do have a clip of you in Martin Chuzzlewit.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54Will you have me for your husband? Eh?
0:21:54 > 0:21:56Ah...
0:21:58 > 0:22:00Ah...
0:22:00 > 0:22:02Ah...
0:22:02 > 0:22:03Oh...
0:22:03 > 0:22:05No, please...
0:22:05 > 0:22:07Please, don't!
0:22:07 > 0:22:11No! Please, no!
0:22:11 > 0:22:15- No! No!- I must go to her! - Not till you say yes. Will you have me for your husband?
0:22:15 > 0:22:19No, I won't! I can't bear the sight of you!
0:22:19 > 0:22:22Besides, I always thought you liked my sister best. We all thought so!
0:22:22 > 0:22:24- No, you didn't.- I did!
0:22:24 > 0:22:26You never could think I preferred her while you were by!
0:22:26 > 0:22:29- Let me go to her! - Say yes and I will!
0:22:29 > 0:22:32If ever I brought myself to say so,
0:22:32 > 0:22:34it should only be that I might hate and tease you all my life.
0:22:34 > 0:22:37That's as good as saying it right out.
0:22:37 > 0:22:39APPLAUSE
0:22:42 > 0:22:44Did you love that part?
0:22:44 > 0:22:47Yeah, I mean, it's a...
0:22:47 > 0:22:50It's... To this day,
0:22:50 > 0:22:53one of my most wonderful memories of anything, really,
0:22:53 > 0:22:58that I've ever been in, seen or done, was sitting in a horse carriage.
0:22:58 > 0:23:03We shot it in Kings Lynn. We were filming a scene of us arriving,
0:23:03 > 0:23:06and there was myself, Sir John Mills, Paul Scofield
0:23:06 > 0:23:09and Julian Fellowes, just us four.
0:23:09 > 0:23:12And I was just this oik, you know, basically.
0:23:12 > 0:23:15We had to keep going around the one-way system to come back and shoot,
0:23:15 > 0:23:18all the time, and it took a long time to get there...
0:23:18 > 0:23:22- So I spent the day in a carriage with those guys.- Yeah.
0:23:22 > 0:23:24Just listening to these people...
0:23:24 > 0:23:29I mean, I was actually told... To be told by Sir John Mills
0:23:29 > 0:23:34what he was doing on the night before the D-Day Landings
0:23:34 > 0:23:38in detail for a kid like... It was...
0:23:39 > 0:23:43It was just astonishing, you know, and I'll never forget that.
0:23:43 > 0:23:48Keith, your final choice is a very modern book,
0:23:48 > 0:23:51and very typical, I would say, of something that you would choose.
0:23:51 > 0:23:54It's called Zeitoun, by Dave Eggers.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57- Tell us a bit about it.- I can tell you a bit of what it's about.
0:23:57 > 0:24:02Basically, I buy books nowadays at airports and railway stations.
0:24:02 > 0:24:06And in order to do it, you have to read the back very quickly.
0:24:06 > 0:24:09And I read this, "Harrowing, spellbinding...
0:24:09 > 0:24:12"Nothing less than an indictment of the entire Bush era."
0:24:12 > 0:24:16When you read that, you think, "I've got to have it." And believe me, it does.
0:24:16 > 0:24:19It's an account of a Syrian businessman. He's a builder.
0:24:19 > 0:24:21He's been in America, he's a naturalised American.
0:24:21 > 0:24:26He's been there for over 20 odd years, married an American woman who became a Muslim.
0:24:26 > 0:24:29It's an account of what happens to him,
0:24:29 > 0:24:35his family during and after... Katrina.
0:24:35 > 0:24:39Yeah. Because he's done nothing during Hurricane Katrina...
0:24:39 > 0:24:42- But all he's done...- ..but help people, stay behind and help.
0:24:42 > 0:24:46All this guy has done is dug out an old canoe that he had out in the garage.
0:24:46 > 0:24:51He's stayed to look after the properties that he's working on, look after his own house,
0:24:51 > 0:24:53he's paddled around helping people
0:24:53 > 0:24:57and he's suddenly arrested by American troops
0:24:57 > 0:25:01and he is put in what they call, I think it was Prison Greyhound.
0:25:01 > 0:25:06Within two days, they've managed to build a link fenced compound
0:25:06 > 0:25:09to hold people, with toilets, with water,
0:25:09 > 0:25:13with everything that you need to build a prison, they'd done it within two days.
0:25:13 > 0:25:17The way they treated this guy and his friends is unbelievable.
0:25:17 > 0:25:20You will cry. I swear to you, you will cry.
0:25:20 > 0:25:22It's injustice on a massive scale.
0:25:22 > 0:25:24- It's just astonishing.- Yeah.
0:25:24 > 0:25:27I mean, you get to a point where you go, "Surely not,"
0:25:27 > 0:25:31and you have keep reminding, "Yes, it can be like this." And it is like this.
0:25:31 > 0:25:33It makes you think more and more about...
0:25:33 > 0:25:35God, if this is happening to this guy,
0:25:35 > 0:25:38what's happening to just poor black people in New Orleans?
0:25:38 > 0:25:40Never mind anyone else, you know.
0:25:40 > 0:25:43- It's harrowing, and brilliantly written.- Yeah.
0:25:43 > 0:25:45I mean, brilliantly written.
0:25:45 > 0:25:48- Are you going to read us a little bit?- I can certainly read you a bit.
0:25:50 > 0:25:52"When he was originally arrested,
0:25:52 > 0:25:55"Zeitoun had not been sure if his country of origin
0:25:55 > 0:25:57"had anything to do with his capture.
0:25:57 > 0:25:59"After all, two of the four men in their group
0:25:59 > 0:26:03"were white American born in New Orleans.
0:26:03 > 0:26:05"But the arrest had taken on an entirely different cast
0:26:05 > 0:26:09"by the time they were brought to Camp Greyhound.
0:26:09 > 0:26:11"And though he was loathe to make this leap,
0:26:11 > 0:26:15"was it so improbable that he, like so many others,
0:26:15 > 0:26:18"might be taken to an undisclosed location,
0:26:18 > 0:26:23"to one of the secret prisons abroad, "to Guantanamo Bay?"
0:26:23 > 0:26:26I mean, that is... Can you imagine feeling like that
0:26:26 > 0:26:29- because you have gone out of your way to help people?- Yeah.
0:26:29 > 0:26:32You suddenly find yourself in this extraordinary prison,
0:26:32 > 0:26:35living under these conditions.
0:26:35 > 0:26:39These guys actually are calling him Taliban. It's just ridiculous!
0:26:39 > 0:26:42It's horrendous. You must read it, it's a brilliant book.
0:26:42 > 0:26:46- It'd be a great movie, actually. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.- Lovely.
0:26:46 > 0:26:48You're quite a new dad again now,
0:26:48 > 0:26:52but you're also a famous father, aren't you?
0:26:52 > 0:26:55- I am, yes.- To Lily.
0:26:55 > 0:26:58- How does that feel to have someone else in the family...? - Much the same as...
0:26:58 > 0:27:03You know what it's like, the press do write garbage about people like me.
0:27:03 > 0:27:07Not all of it, I'll admit, but a lot of it is just rubbish.
0:27:07 > 0:27:10I mean, it's lies, it's downright lies.
0:27:10 > 0:27:13I used to explain this to Lil and to my father, actually, and mother.
0:27:13 > 0:27:17And Lily, who'd go, "Yeah, Dad, no, it's so you, that."
0:27:17 > 0:27:20Within three weeks, she's on the phone,
0:27:20 > 0:27:23"You're right. They do make it up, don't they?
0:27:23 > 0:27:25"It's just rubbish, isn't it?" "Yeah, it is."
0:27:25 > 0:27:29And it's OK being somebody's dad rather than the star?
0:27:29 > 0:27:31It's great. I mean, it was... You know,
0:27:31 > 0:27:35When you do a series, they have a get-together for all the cast and the crew
0:27:35 > 0:27:39and you have to go around and you sit there and you read the script
0:27:39 > 0:27:42and you have to introduce yourself. It's one of those things you do.
0:27:42 > 0:27:45And it would come to me, and I would always say,
0:27:45 > 0:27:48"Lily Allen's dad reading," and I always got a huge laugh...
0:27:48 > 0:27:50SILENCE
0:27:50 > 0:27:52Oh, God!
0:27:52 > 0:27:54LAUGHTER
0:27:54 > 0:27:57- We'll put the laugh in. - No, it's all right.
0:27:57 > 0:27:59I can live with it, I'm used to failure.
0:27:59 > 0:28:03- LAUGHTER - Thank you both very much indeed. - A pleasure, thank you.
0:28:03 > 0:28:06APPLAUSE
0:28:08 > 0:28:12And just to remind everybody, all details about this series
0:28:12 > 0:28:14can be found on the BBC website, of course.
0:28:19 > 0:28:22You can also watch our guests read a passage from their favourite
0:28:22 > 0:28:24children's books there, too.
0:28:24 > 0:28:27And please do join me again tomorrow. Good night.
0:28:27 > 0:28:31APPLAUSE
0:28:51 > 0:28:54Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd