0:00:44 > 0:00:50Can I ask you, going back before that time, what was your introduction to the fair sex, David?
0:00:50 > 0:00:55- Do we get bleeped on this programme? - No, we don't get bleeped. You may speak freely.
0:00:55 > 0:00:58Well, I know what you're getting at, Michael.
0:00:58 > 0:01:00LAUGHTER
0:01:00 > 0:01:03You can take the bleeps out. Anyway...
0:01:03 > 0:01:07I was sort of almost 15. That's my excuse, anyway.
0:01:07 > 0:01:12We lived in London and there wasn't room for me in this small house,
0:01:12 > 0:01:18so I was farmed out into a room up at St James's Place somewhere. We lived in Sloane Street.
0:01:18 > 0:01:24And so every night, after dinner, this creepy stepfather I had used to give me tuppence for the bus.
0:01:24 > 0:01:29A number 19 or 22 or 30. I remember those, up Sloane Street.
0:01:29 > 0:01:35I used to get off at the Ritz Hotel and walk down into my ghastly burrow with a pot under the bed.
0:01:36 > 0:01:41So... And I got more adventurous and I used to walk further on up to Piccadilly
0:01:41 > 0:01:46and look at all the lights - Bovril and Owbridge's Lung Tonic and all those lovely things.
0:01:46 > 0:01:51Then I realised that lots of girls are walking about at the same time.
0:01:52 > 0:01:58Then I once saw a spectacular pair of legs and I followed this girl, just to look at her.
0:01:58 > 0:02:03And she seemed to have an awful lot of men friends, you know, and she'd talk to people.
0:02:03 > 0:02:07So I went to my room and I kept on thinking about this girl.
0:02:07 > 0:02:13The next night, I couldn't wait to get up to Piccadilly again. I walked around and I couldn't find her.
0:02:13 > 0:02:20Finally, I did. I saw her with a very nice-looking man. I thought it was her father, a man in a dinner jacket.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23She took him into this little house in Cork Street.
0:02:23 > 0:02:27And I hid and waited to see if she ever came out again.
0:02:27 > 0:02:31She did. She came out quite soon as a matter of fact. LAUGHTER
0:02:31 > 0:02:35Anyway, um... After that, I really thought of this girl all the time.
0:02:35 > 0:02:38And I used to go looking for her at night.
0:02:38 > 0:02:42One night, she suddenly turned on me. She was a lovely Cockney.
0:02:42 > 0:02:46She said, "What do you want? Do you want a piece, mate?"
0:02:46 > 0:02:51"What's she talking about?" She said, "Do you want to come home with me?" I said, "Yes!"
0:02:51 > 0:02:53LAUGHTER
0:02:53 > 0:02:59This dream took me into this flat and I thought this will be the ginger beer and the gramophone records.
0:03:00 > 0:03:02- A likely story!- Oh, dear.
0:03:02 > 0:03:06Then she gave me this ghastly book of photographs and said,
0:03:06 > 0:03:11"If you're having any trouble, take a look at these first." So I... "Aagh!"
0:03:11 > 0:03:13LAUGHTER
0:03:13 > 0:03:15You see...
0:03:15 > 0:03:22Then she appeared with the usual thing, the pink shoes and nothing else, and I'm absolutely gibbering.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25So she said, "You can wash over there, dear."
0:03:25 > 0:03:30There was a terrible sort of kidney-shaped table full of blue fluid, you know.
0:03:30 > 0:03:33So I... LAUGHTER
0:03:34 > 0:03:37It was terrible. And I washed my hands. I didn't know...
0:03:37 > 0:03:40LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:03:48 > 0:03:52'And now we come to our new feature, A Woman Wonders Why?
0:03:52 > 0:03:56'In it, the interviewer seeks the feminine point of view.
0:03:56 > 0:04:01'Seeking the point of view of a woman driver tonight is Yolande Turner from South Africa.
0:04:01 > 0:04:06'She's talking to the organiser of the Motor Show at Earls Court, Stanley Clark.'
0:04:06 > 0:04:12Good evening, Mr Clark. I'm very pleased to meet you and I'm delighted to have you here.
0:04:12 > 0:04:18- That's very nice of you.- I'm also pleased to see that the Motor Show is a very feminine one. Why is that?
0:04:18 > 0:04:24I think that a man is very brave today if he doesn't buy a car without consulting his wife.
0:04:24 > 0:04:30That's why the manufacturers have gone in more for the nicer colours and more elegant lines.
0:04:30 > 0:04:32I do prefer to be driven by a man,
0:04:32 > 0:04:37but I also think that women drivers are more cautious and careful. Don't you agree?
0:04:37 > 0:04:44- If you say "cautious", they drive more slowly than men, but I do think they lack concentration rather.- Oh?
0:04:44 > 0:04:47I think a man is able to put his business worries on one side
0:04:47 > 0:04:51and concentrate on his driving whereas very few women can do that.
0:04:51 > 0:04:58They're always thinking of what they have to get for dinner and the little number they're having for Ascot.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01- I can't agree with you. - They're most unpredictable.
0:05:01 > 0:05:05Thank you very much. I'm afraid we've arrived at the point
0:05:05 > 0:05:09where it's the masculine point of view and not the feminine one.
0:05:09 > 0:05:13Thank you for answering my questions and coming along this evening.
0:05:13 > 0:05:16I wish you every success for the Motor Show
0:05:16 > 0:05:20and I hope most sincerely that the car tax doesn't go up next week.
0:05:20 > 0:05:24- I hope that a million times more than you do.- Thank you.- Good night.
0:05:25 > 0:05:31First of all, Miss Mansfield isn't in that bed because she's ailing and I'm not here because I'm a doctor.
0:05:31 > 0:05:38She's in the bed because in a minute she will be made love to by an actor in a film called The Challenge.
0:05:38 > 0:05:44You won't think I'm rude if I say that a visit to you is rather like a visit to the Tower of London.
0:05:44 > 0:05:49You're both institutions and I wonder what it feels like to belong to the public?
0:05:49 > 0:05:53My goodness! I guess I feel the same way as the Tower of London feels.
0:05:53 > 0:05:55Do you find it at all disagreeable
0:05:55 > 0:06:00to find yourself and quite often your family on more or less constant view?
0:06:00 > 0:06:05Actually, I feel that a star owes it to her public
0:06:05 > 0:06:09to bring the public into her life.
0:06:09 > 0:06:13They feel... The fans feel that they kind of own you
0:06:13 > 0:06:17and if you kept your life a complete secret, it wouldn't be fair to them.
0:06:17 > 0:06:23But my private life, and when I say private life, I mean private life, is always very private.
0:06:23 > 0:06:29You're presented as a symbol of sex appeal. I wonder if you care to define that phrase, "sex appeal"?
0:06:29 > 0:06:34Sex appeal is a wonderful, warm, womanly, healthy feeling.
0:06:34 > 0:06:38If you're a woman, it's womanly. If you're not, it's manly.
0:06:38 > 0:06:43- Does it come from inside, Miss Mansfield? - It comes only from inside.
0:06:43 > 0:06:48It's nothing that's manufactured. It has nothing to do with measurements or lipstick colour.
0:06:48 > 0:06:52To me, it's cleanliness and youth
0:06:52 > 0:06:56and an effervescent desire to enjoy life.
0:06:56 > 0:06:59That's what sex appeal is to me,
0:06:59 > 0:07:03the sort of vibrancy that you find present in a young kitten.
0:07:03 > 0:07:06And lastly, a question about your career.
0:07:06 > 0:07:12When you first went to Hollywood, you went there to try for the role of Joan of Arc.
0:07:12 > 0:07:16Does this mean you're particularly interested in the classical roles?
0:07:16 > 0:07:19No, I didn't try for the part of Joan of Arc.
0:07:19 > 0:07:25I had been to three universities and two or three private dramatic schools before I went to Hollywood,
0:07:25 > 0:07:32preparing myself for my hoped career as an actress, my hopeful career as an actress.
0:07:32 > 0:07:37I did a soliloquy from Joan of Arc for Milton Lewis,
0:07:37 > 0:07:42who was the Head of Casting at Paramount Studios, in order to audition
0:07:42 > 0:07:48and he just seemed to think that I was wasting my, as he said, obvious talents.
0:07:48 > 0:07:53And he lightened my hair and tightened my dresses and this is the result.
0:07:56 > 0:07:59So it began as a way of entertaining your mates?
0:07:59 > 0:08:03No, it began as a way of making money, quite honestly.
0:08:03 > 0:08:09When did you discover that you worked well together, there was a chemistry between you?
0:08:09 > 0:08:12When we got married(!) We realised then.
0:08:12 > 0:08:16Yes! No, you don't realise you've got a chemistry.
0:08:16 > 0:08:21You just want suddenly to do this act, do this double act and develop.
0:08:21 > 0:08:25We lean on each other a lot. That's the thing.
0:08:25 > 0:08:31- He's asking some funny questions. - You're not giving him any funny answers!- It's difficult to answer.
0:08:31 > 0:08:33Digging deep, I don't know.
0:08:33 > 0:08:37Of all comedy acts, you two seem to be the most equally balanced
0:08:37 > 0:08:42- in the sense that no-one's a stooge, you contribute equally to...- Yeah.
0:08:42 > 0:08:44- We didn't used to be, though.- No.
0:08:44 > 0:08:50- No, we patterned ourselves on the original type of double act - straight man...- Abbott and Costello?
0:08:50 > 0:08:56- Yes.- Laurel and Hardy. - Although Laurel and Hardy weren't particularly straight man and comic.
0:08:56 > 0:09:01But we gradually evolved this two-man personality situation.
0:09:01 > 0:09:07How dependent are you on the audience? If you get an immediate response from an audience,
0:09:07 > 0:09:11do you feel that the act picks up speed and starts to work?
0:09:11 > 0:09:14- Oh, yeah.- Yes. - We're 90% dependent on an audience.
0:09:14 > 0:09:17They say a comedian is only as good as his audience.
0:09:17 > 0:09:22If the audience is in the right frame of mind and it all gels, it's marvellous.
0:09:22 > 0:09:28Isn't this a problem when you make films? You've got no audience, apart from studio hands who have seen...
0:09:28 > 0:09:34- Who have seen everything.- And we never give them a complete show. - We only do a minute at a time.
0:09:34 > 0:09:40- So you don't know until you see the rushes...- We don't go to rushes any more. We're frightened of them.
0:09:40 > 0:09:44- They petrify you. - Even then, you can't tell in rushes.
0:09:44 > 0:09:46You can't tell. We can't.
0:09:46 > 0:09:50When do you know that it's worked? When the film is premiered...
0:09:50 > 0:09:53- When the cheque comes! - ..and you hear the laughter?
0:09:53 > 0:09:56I don't know. I can't sit and watch the films either.
0:09:56 > 0:09:59You get sensitive in that direction. I am.
0:09:59 > 0:10:03- I see myself blown up there on that screen...- Which you should be!
0:10:03 > 0:10:06And I get nervous.
0:10:06 > 0:10:11If you hadn't been comedians, what would you have liked to be?
0:10:11 > 0:10:13Mike and Bernie Winters.
0:10:14 > 0:10:18Very cruel. I shouldn't have said that. I do apologise.
0:10:18 > 0:10:20No, I'd like to have been... I like cricket.
0:10:20 > 0:10:25If I hadn't gone into show business, I'd have been an engine driver.
0:10:25 > 0:10:30- His father worked on the railway. - Yes.- I would've been a labourer for the Corporation of Morecambe.
0:10:30 > 0:10:34- As my father was.- So we've a lot to thank show business for.
0:10:36 > 0:10:39Now, all your family worked in the circus,
0:10:39 > 0:10:43so presumably your childhood from the start was spent travelling?
0:10:43 > 0:10:46Yes, my father was a clown and trapeze worker.
0:10:46 > 0:10:49So did he set out to make you a clown?
0:10:49 > 0:10:53Now, you see, you can't make a clown. A clown has to be born.
0:10:53 > 0:10:56He made out for me to become a trapeze act.
0:10:56 > 0:11:00And you started learning that sort of thing at what age?
0:11:01 > 0:11:04When I was seven years of age, I started it -
0:11:04 > 0:11:11to get my strength in the hands, to lift my body up on the trapeze, you know, the usual way.
0:11:11 > 0:11:15But my mind was different. I wanted to become a clown.
0:11:15 > 0:11:22- Have you found that the children's attitude to you as a clown, has it changed through the years?- Oh, yes.
0:11:22 > 0:11:26- In what way?- I'm very pleased that you brought that subject up.
0:11:26 > 0:11:31In the olden days, when I was a clown, when I used to go in the ring...
0:11:31 > 0:11:37Before I used to go in the ring, I used to put my head through the curtains and my hairs stood on end.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40The children used to laugh like anything.
0:11:40 > 0:11:42But now, they don't.
0:11:42 > 0:11:49Yeah, they've got a smile on their face, but you have to do something these days to make them laugh.
0:11:49 > 0:11:53- You have to do more...- Yeah. - ..or just do it differently?
0:11:53 > 0:11:55They're more educated, you see.
0:11:55 > 0:12:00For instance, there are morning shows for children at cinemas
0:12:00 > 0:12:05and television puts out such enormous programmes, so it's not a novelty for them.
0:12:05 > 0:12:07Not like in the olden days.
0:12:07 > 0:12:13You had a sort of restless childhood, didn't you? You left home when you were 14, wasn't it?
0:12:13 > 0:12:17Well, first, when I was six, then when I was 11, then when I was 14.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20Rather seriously when I was 14.
0:12:20 > 0:12:24And finally, when I was 16 and I went to California.
0:12:24 > 0:12:28But why? I mean, you dropped out of school?
0:12:28 > 0:12:35Suddenly, I'd come home and there wasn't a place for me at the table, so it was time to split, wasn't it?
0:12:35 > 0:12:37LAUGHTER
0:12:37 > 0:12:40- I got the message after... - They sold your bed?
0:12:40 > 0:12:45- Right, yeah. - What did you do in those days? Were you just hoboing on the road?
0:12:45 > 0:12:52Hmm, yeah. Just knocking at the back door, asking the kind lady if she had a piece of bread, you know.
0:12:52 > 0:12:56Never offering to mow the lawn, just dealing with the kind lady.
0:12:56 > 0:12:59But why? Why was that? What were you doing at the time?
0:12:59 > 0:13:02What was the purpose behind it?
0:13:02 > 0:13:04Well, nothing really. Just keep moving.
0:13:06 > 0:13:08There was no purpose.
0:13:08 > 0:13:12- At one point in your career, you were a fighter, a boxer?- No.- Good.
0:13:12 > 0:13:16LAUGHTER
0:13:17 > 0:13:20No, all this came from being run over by a truck.
0:13:23 > 0:13:26Was it a big truck or a small truck?
0:13:26 > 0:13:30- No, you were, weren't you?- Big enough to hurt. ..No, not really, no.
0:13:31 > 0:13:34No. LAUGHTER
0:13:35 > 0:13:41- Do people ever take swings at you? - All the time.- Yeah? - Not since that last one, though.
0:13:41 > 0:13:43- What was the last one? - A very good one.
0:13:44 > 0:13:47It was a low shot.
0:13:47 > 0:13:51When was the last time that someone took a swing at you?
0:13:51 > 0:13:56- I really can't remember. No, it doesn't happen. - Never happened at all?
0:13:58 > 0:14:03I'd like to accommodate you. I could invent something probably, you know?
0:14:03 > 0:14:07But you're falling back on all that flak fat that talks about that...
0:14:08 > 0:14:10..which is either true or not true
0:14:10 > 0:14:13or true with reservations or untrue.
0:14:15 > 0:14:20One time, my wife and I were in a restaurant in Colorado.
0:14:20 > 0:14:24A fella came over with a piece of soiled toilet tissue
0:14:24 > 0:14:28and threw it right down on top of my steak and said, "Sign that."
0:14:28 > 0:14:34I said, "Of course," and picked up my fork and ran it up through his chin into his upper palate, bent it over.
0:14:34 > 0:14:39I ripped his pocket out and gave him the tab and said, "Take him to the hospital.
0:14:39 > 0:14:42"There's been a dreadful accident."
0:14:42 > 0:14:44LAUGHTER
0:14:44 > 0:14:48- That's a good story. I enjoyed that. - A true story.- I don't believe it.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51My wife is there somewhere. She'll tell you.
0:14:51 > 0:14:55Did you always want to be a movie star?
0:14:55 > 0:14:57No, I wanted to be Queen(!) LAUGHTER
0:14:58 > 0:15:01No, I didn't. It never occurred to me.
0:15:01 > 0:15:05I couldn't make it. I couldn't make the weight.
0:15:05 > 0:15:10You have sons also, don't you, who are carrying on in the...?
0:15:10 > 0:15:13- Looking for jobs. - Looking for jobs, yeah.
0:15:13 > 0:15:17Was there any advice you gave them when they became actors?
0:15:17 > 0:15:21Just to remember your lines and don't write home for money.
0:15:21 > 0:15:23LAUGHTER
0:15:23 > 0:15:27- That's all they need to know. - Neither of which they took to heart.
0:15:27 > 0:15:31No, you know, they do as they will. It's their lives, isn't it?
0:15:31 > 0:15:34They could have been burglars or something.
0:15:34 > 0:15:39I just told them that. "Whatever you do, don't get caught at it."
0:15:40 > 0:15:42No-one's ever caught me acting.
0:15:43 > 0:15:46LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:15:47 > 0:15:51I thought I was fairly attractive until I got to Hollywood.
0:15:51 > 0:15:53I didn't for very long.
0:15:53 > 0:15:59- But you did have to fight off all their attempts to glamorise you in their terms?- Oh, yes.
0:15:59 > 0:16:05Hepburn, Margaret Sullavan and I were the three who really fought it.
0:16:05 > 0:16:07You know, fought the...
0:16:07 > 0:16:11Although when I went to Warners, they made me really bleach my hair.
0:16:11 > 0:16:15I knew it was going to limit me with parts, so I snuck down one day
0:16:15 > 0:16:19and had it put back to the ash-blonde hair I'd always had.
0:16:19 > 0:16:23One year later, Mr Warner sent for me and said, "You've had your hair re-dyed."
0:16:23 > 0:16:26One year later. He'd never seen it!
0:16:26 > 0:16:29But if I'd gone for permission, he wouldn't have allowed it.
0:16:29 > 0:16:33I didn't want to go through life with a bleached head of hair.
0:16:33 > 0:16:37They even suggested changing your name, didn't they?
0:16:37 > 0:16:40Yes, they wanted to call me Bettina Dawes.
0:16:40 > 0:16:42LAUGHTER
0:16:46 > 0:16:50And to be a little vulgar in this illustrious group,
0:16:50 > 0:16:55I said, "I refuse to be called Between The Drawers all my life!"
0:16:55 > 0:16:59APPLAUSE Which I would have.
0:16:59 > 0:17:05You said the most remarkable thing in your book, which bewildered me, but it sounds very splendid.
0:17:05 > 0:17:11- "An actor is always less than a man."- This is an old French saying. - "An actress more than a woman."
0:17:11 > 0:17:13Yes, it's a very old French saying.
0:17:13 > 0:17:15Do you agree with that?
0:17:17 > 0:17:19LAUGHTER
0:17:19 > 0:17:23I have to be very honest. I don't think you can make generalities.
0:17:23 > 0:17:26I think there are very many exceptions.
0:17:26 > 0:17:30Certainly that beautiful man Claude Rains and that beautiful man Mr Tracy
0:17:30 > 0:17:34and Mr Cooper and Mr Gable certainly were not less than men.
0:17:34 > 0:17:39But it's a strange profession for a man, truthfully.
0:17:39 > 0:17:44Steve McQueen, for instance, does all this motorcycling to keep sure he's a man.
0:17:44 > 0:17:46LAUGHTER He told me that!
0:17:46 > 0:17:49APPLAUSE
0:17:49 > 0:17:53No, because he's the most marvellous guy, Steve McQueen. He's just great.
0:17:53 > 0:17:57He told me one night. I said, "Why did you take a chance?
0:17:57 > 0:18:03"You're one of the few smashing young men that have come along and we need you desperately."
0:18:03 > 0:18:07He said, "Because it's a strange profession for a man."
0:18:07 > 0:18:13Sammy Davis, from what I can make out, the most important thing that's happened to you so far
0:18:13 > 0:18:16was a car accident about 12 years ago
0:18:16 > 0:18:22because I gather from your book Yes, I Can that this changed your life and changed your personality.
0:18:22 > 0:18:25What kind of person were you before the accident?
0:18:25 > 0:18:31I think that before the accident I was the type of person that most people think I am now.
0:18:31 > 0:18:35By that, I mean the other image, the performer.
0:18:35 > 0:18:40Because sometimes they lose sight of both people.
0:18:40 > 0:18:45They merge at one time and because you're on stage and you're singing and you're dancing
0:18:45 > 0:18:50or they see you in a club where I don't believe everyone should see a show
0:18:50 > 0:18:53without applauding and laughing and having a gay time.
0:18:53 > 0:18:56If you want to sulk, stay at home.
0:18:56 > 0:18:58They sometimes confuse those two.
0:18:58 > 0:19:05What I meant in the book was that in those days, it was the days of really a Nick Romano sort of thing.
0:19:05 > 0:19:10You know, "Live fast, die young and have a good-looking corpse."
0:19:10 > 0:19:15That was the sense of values. There was nothing else... I had nothing else, except that.
0:19:15 > 0:19:19There are harrowing passages in this autobiography of yours.
0:19:19 > 0:19:25I'm thinking of the time you spent in the army when you were constantly beaten up
0:19:25 > 0:19:30and afterwards, when you were a performer, but were turned away from clubs and hotels,
0:19:30 > 0:19:34these countless indignations that were heaped upon you.
0:19:34 > 0:19:40Nowadays, when you're accepted by the same people who would have once turned you away from their door,
0:19:40 > 0:19:44don't you feel some contempt for them as you perform
0:19:44 > 0:19:48and see these same faces applauding you now?
0:19:48 > 0:19:50No, it was...
0:19:50 > 0:19:55I think that I...because I had so much contempt thrown at me,
0:19:55 > 0:19:59so much hatred thrown at me, I've got no...
0:19:59 > 0:20:05I've really awakened to the point where I've really got no time to hate that vehemently back.
0:20:05 > 0:20:07I can't, you know?
0:20:07 > 0:20:10I'll get upset, I'll think it's ironic,
0:20:10 > 0:20:15but I cannot sit and stew because it's unimportant, really.
0:20:15 > 0:20:18If you waste your time and your energy...
0:20:18 > 0:20:22I've come to realise that the people who hate, the bigots,
0:20:22 > 0:20:28gee, if they could concentrate a half of that time on discovering a cure for cancer,
0:20:28 > 0:20:33we would have had it discovered 20 years ago.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36But they spend... And it becomes... HE PANTS
0:20:36 > 0:20:40..like this with them, and it's frightening the world over.
0:20:40 > 0:20:44I don't want to add to that. That's one group I do not want to belong to.
0:20:44 > 0:20:50Once after an unfortunate demonstration by some of Oswald Mosley's supporters,
0:20:50 > 0:20:55you turned the incident into a piece of comedy in your show.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58Is this how you sort of purge yourself of hurt?
0:20:58 > 0:21:01Well, actually, no, really.
0:21:01 > 0:21:04What you do is you get it out.
0:21:04 > 0:21:07- Mm-hm.- It's like you get it out of your system.
0:21:07 > 0:21:09The hurt is still there.
0:21:09 > 0:21:13Every time someone is called "a nigger", it hurts.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16And you can't deny it hurts.
0:21:18 > 0:21:21But you cannot lay on it.
0:21:21 > 0:21:25Finally, Sammy Davis, to the outsider, anyway,
0:21:25 > 0:21:30the last few years of your life and career have been champagne and roses.
0:21:30 > 0:21:32Have you any regrets?
0:21:32 > 0:21:34No, I don't think so.
0:21:34 > 0:21:37There are some things that I have done,
0:21:37 > 0:21:42a few things that I may have said that I wish I had better timing on.
0:21:43 > 0:21:47But by and large, I would say that it's been a good life, you know?
0:21:47 > 0:21:50And which...
0:21:50 > 0:21:52I guess in summation...
0:21:53 > 0:21:58Frank says when he was 17, it was a very good year.
0:21:59 > 0:22:03Well, the past few years have been all good years for me
0:22:03 > 0:22:06and I hope they continue to be.
0:22:06 > 0:22:10- Sammy Davis, thank you very much. - Thank you.
0:22:12 > 0:22:17- How long did that phase last? - Really not very long.
0:22:17 > 0:22:19I decided I couldn't possibly stand it
0:22:19 > 0:22:22and also I was very susceptible to it.
0:22:22 > 0:22:25I fell in love with somebody who was totally poor,
0:22:25 > 0:22:29but really a gas and I realised it didn't mean a thing.
0:22:30 > 0:22:32And then we got married.
0:22:32 > 0:22:35When you got married, you were at university?
0:22:35 > 0:22:40No, I never made it to university. I left in my first year of sixth form, you see.
0:22:40 > 0:22:43And, um... I started work,
0:22:43 > 0:22:49which may have been a good thing or a bad thing, but now I think is a very good thing
0:22:49 > 0:22:54because I don't really believe in other people telling you what the scene is.
0:22:54 > 0:22:58I think it's really important that you find out for yourself.
0:22:58 > 0:23:02People can tell you that marriage is not really a very good thing.
0:23:02 > 0:23:05I really knew because I knew about my parents,
0:23:05 > 0:23:12but I wanted to find out if it was possible to live in that way that they say is the best way to live.
0:23:12 > 0:23:17But when you got married, you were clearly, positively taking a gamble, were you?
0:23:17 > 0:23:20No, I was definitely in love, quite definitely in love.
0:23:20 > 0:23:25I really wanted to make it and I thought it was possible to do that, but it isn't.
0:23:25 > 0:23:30Before you get married, you don't understand what the person is like until afterwards.
0:23:30 > 0:23:33- What did you learn about marriage? - SHE LAUGHS
0:23:37 > 0:23:39Oh, it just doesn't...
0:23:41 > 0:23:44It just isn't the scene for me, you know?
0:23:44 > 0:23:49I mean, it's going against almost all I think to even talk about it like this,
0:23:49 > 0:23:52so that they all can see what I'm saying
0:23:52 > 0:23:56because it's something you've got to work out for yourself.
0:23:56 > 0:23:59For some people, marriage may be very groovy.
0:23:59 > 0:24:03For me, it really isn't. I don't think it is for very many people.
0:24:03 > 0:24:07I think most people are not very happy. Some people are.
0:24:07 > 0:24:13Now, after marriage, you were still seeking something or other, perhaps you weren't quite sure what.
0:24:13 > 0:24:18What other things did you try, as it were? Drugs?
0:24:20 > 0:24:22Um...yeah.
0:24:22 > 0:24:25I never wanted to talk about drugs in public
0:24:25 > 0:24:29because I don't want to influence anybody in anything,
0:24:29 > 0:24:35but if you ask me, I guess I have to say that, of course, I took drugs, like everyone.
0:24:35 > 0:24:37But not because of everyone.
0:24:38 > 0:24:43- These things...- But they weren't the answer either, were they?
0:24:43 > 0:24:46No, but you see, if they, drugs...
0:24:46 > 0:24:51Huxley wrote these two books. He wrote Heaven And Hell and Doors Of Perception.
0:24:51 > 0:24:55Of the two, people have taken Heaven And Hell as the symbol.
0:24:55 > 0:24:57And they've taken the wrong one
0:24:57 > 0:25:03because the really explicit phrase is "doors of perception".
0:25:03 > 0:25:06And that is what drugs are. They are the doors.
0:25:06 > 0:25:10They're not anywhere. You don't go anywhere.
0:25:10 > 0:25:13You just see a crack like I'm looking at you now.
0:25:13 > 0:25:16You see a crack. And if these...
0:25:16 > 0:25:20I don't know about marijuana. I think that's perfectly safe, actually.
0:25:20 > 0:25:23It's an old sort of scene.
0:25:23 > 0:25:25And it doesn't really hurt you.
0:25:25 > 0:25:30It's not groovy to take it because it's not groovy to take anything.
0:25:30 > 0:25:35We should be able to be in a state where we don't need cigarettes or drink
0:25:35 > 0:25:37or anything like that or marijuana,
0:25:37 > 0:25:44but something like LSD, if it wasn't meant to happen, it wouldn't have been invented...somehow.
0:25:44 > 0:25:49I think it was important. I know so many people that, before they took LSD, were such a drag.
0:25:49 > 0:25:52They took LSD and they really opened up,
0:25:52 > 0:25:55then of their own accord, they stopped.
0:25:55 > 0:26:00- Nearly everybody has stopped taking LSD now.- You've stopped?- Yeah.
0:26:00 > 0:26:05- You're not happy about growing old, but what about dying? Do you fear death?- No, I love death.
0:26:05 > 0:26:08But that's another thing again, I mean...
0:26:08 > 0:26:10You know, like there's...
0:26:10 > 0:26:12It's two things. It's...
0:26:12 > 0:26:17It's very important to stay in the world and do things,
0:26:17 > 0:26:21but on the other hand, death and dreams are another thing.
0:26:21 > 0:26:25That's what I'd really like to do - just go off there.
0:26:25 > 0:26:27- Off where?- Into death.
0:26:27 > 0:26:31But you can't do that. It's very wrong to make your own death.
0:26:31 > 0:26:34Your death is when you get it.
0:26:34 > 0:26:36But it...
0:26:36 > 0:26:39I think it's a beautiful thing, death.
0:26:39 > 0:26:44It's such a relief. I mean, just imagine if there wasn't any death! Phew!
0:26:44 > 0:26:50'The whole world has been excited at the reappearance of Hitler's personal attendant
0:26:50 > 0:26:53'after ten years as a prisoner in Russian hands.
0:26:53 > 0:26:57'Just arrived in England and in the In Town Tonight studio now
0:26:57 > 0:27:00'is the man who was with Hitler to the end -
0:27:00 > 0:27:02'42-year-old Heinz Linge.'
0:27:02 > 0:27:05You were with Hitler when he died, Herr Linge?
0:27:05 > 0:27:08I was the last to say goodbye to him
0:27:08 > 0:27:12and the first to see the body.
0:27:13 > 0:27:16He and Eva Braun died alone.
0:27:16 > 0:27:18Did he give you any last orders?
0:27:18 > 0:27:23Yes, to destroy his personal possessions and burn his body.
0:27:23 > 0:27:26- Did you carry them out?- Yes.
0:27:26 > 0:27:28I used petrol,
0:27:28 > 0:27:31but there was a sole flash.
0:27:31 > 0:27:34They were not completely burned.
0:27:34 > 0:27:37Where do you think Hitler's body is now?
0:27:37 > 0:27:41Buried in the park of the Chancellery.
0:27:42 > 0:27:46The Russians have never found Hitler's body.
0:27:46 > 0:27:52I know that because they never...
0:27:53 > 0:27:56They questioned me repeatedly about it.
0:27:56 > 0:27:58You think it's still there?
0:27:58 > 0:28:01Yes, buried in a common grave.
0:28:01 > 0:28:05I know that Goebbels died there in Berlin too. Why didn't Goering?
0:28:05 > 0:28:10I think Goering was hanging on to life as long as he could.
0:28:10 > 0:28:16Herr Linge, from your own point of view, was Hitler a good man to work for?
0:28:16 > 0:28:20I must say I wouldn't have a better master.
0:28:20 > 0:28:22Were you with him all the time?
0:28:22 > 0:28:24I was with him always
0:28:24 > 0:28:30and when he went out, I used to drive in the same car with him,
0:28:30 > 0:28:33wearing civilian clothes,
0:28:33 > 0:28:38if he has...or in uniform, if he was in uniform.
0:28:38 > 0:28:40Did you ever have any time off?
0:28:40 > 0:28:46Not much. Perhaps three or four weeks in the ten years I was with him.
0:28:46 > 0:28:49- How did you spend it? - With my wife and family.
0:28:49 > 0:28:53Herr Linge, was Hitler really interested in astrology?
0:28:53 > 0:29:00- No. When he was in power, never. - That's one story about him which is apparently incorrect.
0:29:00 > 0:29:07- What about those rages of his? - He used to get in rages, but they were not uncontrolled rages.
0:29:07 > 0:29:09He never bit the carpet.
0:29:09 > 0:29:15- Did he have doubles? - No, I see... I haven't seen anyone who looked like him.
0:29:15 > 0:29:18Why didn't Hitler invade England?
0:29:18 > 0:29:25Oh, there are many reasons, but I think he thought England would surrender.
0:29:25 > 0:29:29Now that you're here yourself, is there anything you want to do?
0:29:29 > 0:29:34I have done it. I went to stand on the cliffs at Dover
0:29:34 > 0:29:39- where I know Hitler would have liked to stand.- Yes, I'm sure he would.
0:29:39 > 0:29:41What are your plans now?
0:29:41 > 0:29:45At the present time, I am writing my story,
0:29:45 > 0:29:50which is now being published by the News of the World.
0:29:50 > 0:29:55What kind of background did you come from? Was it a showbiz background?
0:29:55 > 0:29:59No, my father was a druggist and he was in poor health.
0:29:59 > 0:30:06We moved out to California, as a matter of fact, WAY out in California to the Mojave Desert.
0:30:06 > 0:30:10And I used to have to ride to school on a horse
0:30:10 > 0:30:15and it gave me a little background for what I finally got into.
0:30:15 > 0:30:20When did you change your name, John, from Michael Marion Morrison?
0:30:20 > 0:30:26Well, the studio figured that Marion was not exactly... LAUGHTER
0:30:26 > 0:30:33..a proper name for an American hero. I forgot about Frances Marion, I guess.
0:30:33 > 0:30:37And Duke, they said, sounded a little too vulgar.
0:30:37 > 0:30:41It wouldn't be over here, but for some reason over there...
0:30:41 > 0:30:46And, eh, so they came up with John Wayne.
0:30:46 > 0:30:51- Not a bad name for a film star, is it?- It's worked all right for me.
0:30:52 > 0:30:59Can I talk to you now about another much publicised aspect of your life, the political views you hold?
0:30:59 > 0:31:06I'd like to particularly ask you as well, because it's related to the film industry, about that period
0:31:06 > 0:31:12when you were to the forefront of the people who were blacklisting the alleged Communist members...
0:31:12 > 0:31:16Well, that's not a true statement.
0:31:16 > 0:31:23- Well...- We were not blacklisting. - You were...- They were blacklisting. We didn't name anybody.
0:31:23 > 0:31:28We stayed completely out of it and said, "We are Americans."
0:31:28 > 0:31:32Anybody that wanted to join us, that was fine.
0:31:32 > 0:31:37- We gave no names out to anybody at any time ever.- But are you...
0:31:37 > 0:31:43When you look back at that now, John, are you proud of what happened in Hollywood?
0:31:43 > 0:31:47I think it was probably a very necessary thing at the time
0:31:47 > 0:31:49because...
0:31:49 > 0:31:54the radical liberals were going to take over our business.
0:31:54 > 0:32:01- The people who got kicked out of Hollywood...- Who were kicked out? Wait a minute. Who?- People who left.
0:32:01 > 0:32:07- Let's take, for example, Carl Foreman.- Yeah.- Dalton Trumbo. - Carl Foreman, Dalton Trumbo.
0:32:07 > 0:32:13- Look what happened to Larry Parks. - About... Larry Parks admitted that he'd been a Commie
0:32:13 > 0:32:18- and he went on working. - Well, he didn't work for some time.
0:32:18 > 0:32:22- He hadn't worked a hell of a lot before that, had he?- Well, no...- No.
0:32:22 > 0:32:28But these aren't people, surely, who you would expect to take over the industry?
0:32:28 > 0:32:33Well, at the time it seemed rather serious and...
0:32:33 > 0:32:41they were getting themselves into a position where they could control who would do the writing.
0:32:50 > 0:32:54Would you regard yourself as being passionately anti-Communist
0:32:54 > 0:33:00- in the sense that America ought to protect any society that looked like having a Communist government?- No.
0:33:00 > 0:33:05I'm a realistic anti-Communist and I think I had some experience
0:33:05 > 0:33:11with Communists in our own industry when they attempted to take it over some years ago.
0:33:11 > 0:33:17It isn't a case of just going out borrowing trouble. Any country that wants a Communist government
0:33:17 > 0:33:21should be permitted to have it, but this is a global conflict
0:33:21 > 0:33:26and the enemy is there and we are the target of that enemy.
0:33:26 > 0:33:33And I think we have to do what is necessary to oppose their aggression,
0:33:33 > 0:33:39to prove to them that aggression does not pay. If they succeed and it pays off in South Vietnam,
0:33:39 > 0:33:44then the next step will be some place closer or more difficult
0:33:44 > 0:33:47and they will try to make aggression pay again.
0:33:47 > 0:33:52In Watts and Oakland one hears a great deal about police brutality.
0:33:52 > 0:33:56There's a gathering feeling against white people. Can you do anything?
0:33:56 > 0:33:59Of course that feeling is there,
0:33:59 > 0:34:04but I think we can do something about it. But it's a two-way street
0:34:04 > 0:34:10with people talking to each other instead of about each other. I don't believe police brutality stories.
0:34:10 > 0:34:16Right here in Los Angeles is one of the finest law enforcement bodies in the world and they've worked hard
0:34:16 > 0:34:18on this particular subject.
0:34:18 > 0:34:22I think that this cry has been brought up
0:34:22 > 0:34:28and has been made a kind of a belief by some people who have an axe to grind,
0:34:28 > 0:34:32who don't want to settle the problem, but to create one.
0:34:32 > 0:34:36- Would you like to be President? - Oh, for heaven's sakes.
0:34:36 > 0:34:42The minute you run for any office, you must first say, "I don't want to be President of the United States!"
0:34:42 > 0:34:48- I just want to be Governor of California.- If people wanted you, would the prospect appall you?
0:34:48 > 0:34:51Yes, I think it would appall anyone.
0:34:51 > 0:34:55I think it is... It is an awesome responsibility.
0:34:55 > 0:34:59Today, hardly more than a score of women MPs sit in parliament,
0:34:59 > 0:35:05although life there is pleasanter for them than when Lady Astor, the first woman MP, took her seat.
0:35:05 > 0:35:11- Did you try to exploit the fact that you were a woman?- For heaven's sakes, no! That was so obvious.
0:35:11 > 0:35:18No, that was so obvious, but I really felt - and this is important -
0:35:18 > 0:35:23women had died for the vote. Mrs Pankhurst and that woman who threw herself...
0:35:23 > 0:35:29And I realised that I was there because of what they had done
0:35:29 > 0:35:36and that gave me great courage and a great feeling of dedication to the woman's cause.
0:35:36 > 0:35:41How long did the prejudice against you and other women MPs go on?
0:35:41 > 0:35:44I think it's still going on, but I'm not certain.
0:35:44 > 0:35:49There aren't too many women MPs even today after all those years.
0:35:49 > 0:35:55Do you think, looking back, that it's been worth it, this struggle? What has the woman's vote done?
0:35:55 > 0:36:01- Well, I'd like to give you a figure. I'll just read it to you because you've got to know.- Please do.
0:36:01 > 0:36:08"In the 12 years before women's suffrage, only four Acts were passed directly concerning women.
0:36:08 > 0:36:14"Small increases in property rights, training of midwives, qualifications for county councils
0:36:14 > 0:36:16"and affiliation orders for wives.
0:36:16 > 0:36:21"In 12 years after, there were 28 Acts passed." I won't read them.
0:36:21 > 0:36:25That's magnificent, yes. But apart from all that, do you think,
0:36:25 > 0:36:29apart from your own very distinguished, exceptional career,
0:36:29 > 0:36:35do you think looking back that women are as suited mentally to public life as men?
0:36:35 > 0:36:39In many ways they're more suited because they're not so easy...
0:36:39 > 0:36:43They're not so easily flattered as men are.
0:36:43 > 0:36:47I guarantee any woman can get any man if she's got enough flattery.
0:36:47 > 0:36:53A lot of men say women are emotionally rather unstable and their judgment is subjective.
0:36:53 > 0:36:59I don't believe one word of that. You can get any man and I'll tell you how.
0:36:59 > 0:37:03"Tell me more about yourself." And off they go.
0:37:03 > 0:37:08- What do you think of the future of women in politics? - It's as good as the future of men.
0:37:09 > 0:37:13- I've got great theories about women. - Ah, let's hear them.
0:37:13 > 0:37:17Women should have lots of opinions, but not be allowed to express them.
0:37:17 > 0:37:24I always say, "Look, you're very beautiful, but I don't want you to speak. Just nod your head."
0:37:24 > 0:37:30I remember once asking this beautiful woman, BEAUTIFUL woman, a very important question.
0:37:30 > 0:37:35She nodded her head so fast she almost dislocated her neck.
0:37:35 > 0:37:41And the next morning, they wake up and she says, "Good morning! It's wonderful..."
0:37:41 > 0:37:46And you say, "It's finished. You shouldn't have spoken. You ruined it."
0:37:46 > 0:37:52I don't like actors very much. The only actor who'd come into my house is Connery. I like Sean.
0:37:52 > 0:37:58I don't like them very much. The usual cliche - they speak about nothing else but themselves.
0:37:58 > 0:38:03- What have I been doing all night?! - But you've been asked to.- Yeah.
0:38:03 > 0:38:10Actors say - it's an old cliche, but true - "Let's not talk about me. What did YOU think of my movie?"
0:38:10 > 0:38:12LAUGHTER
0:38:13 > 0:38:19Can we talk now about the people you've worked with in the film industry?
0:38:19 > 0:38:25You've had a reputation of occasionally not getting on, to put it mildly,
0:38:25 > 0:38:29- with people you've worked with. - Putting it very mildly.
0:38:29 > 0:38:35The first thing I found was with Brando on Mutiny On The Bounty. You didn't seem to get on at all.
0:38:35 > 0:38:42No, I didn't. Brando and I, he was the star of the movie. It was before I did Sporting Life.
0:38:42 > 0:38:47The only thing that worried me about him was he doesn't turn up.
0:38:47 > 0:38:53I'll tell you something interesting. In all this business about Marlon, I think he's a fantastic actor.
0:38:53 > 0:38:58One of the greatest actors of all time. His facility was so powerful.
0:38:58 > 0:39:02He had all the facilities of almost everything, probably except comedy.
0:39:02 > 0:39:06I don't think he was a good comic, but everything else, marvellous.
0:39:06 > 0:39:11But how he developed things was extraordinary. Marlon's style
0:39:11 > 0:39:14is very interesting for those interested in movies.
0:39:14 > 0:39:20Marlon developed a style of acting because in some strange way he either didn't want to,
0:39:20 > 0:39:22everything must be real,
0:39:22 > 0:39:28or he actually couldn't remember. He couldn't remember lines. He didn't want to or couldn't.
0:39:28 > 0:39:32He'd do a scene with you and that's the camera there, here.
0:39:32 > 0:39:37He'd have beside the camera a big board and the lines on the board.
0:39:37 > 0:39:42You see? That's how he developed that terrific, Brandonian look.
0:39:42 > 0:39:47He's talking to you in a scene and suddenly he'll do this... LAUGHTER
0:39:47 > 0:39:54Right? That's because he's looking at the lines! He's reading the lines! Do you remember once...
0:39:54 > 0:40:01It's true, I promise. And I'd have thought that one time, he was doing Julius Caesar.
0:40:01 > 0:40:05There's one marvellous part where this happens.
0:40:05 > 0:40:10He's there, standing up in his toga and he's doing, he says,
0:40:10 > 0:40:14"Oh, mighty Caesar, dost thou lie so low?
0:40:14 > 0:40:20"Or do all thy glories, triumphs, spoils shrunk to this little measure?"
0:40:20 > 0:40:22Er...
0:40:22 > 0:40:24Er... LAUGHTER
0:40:24 > 0:40:29Now I know, sure as hell, Shakespeare never wrote, "Er..."!
0:40:29 > 0:40:33So then it happens and he goes, "Er..." and then you see it happen.
0:40:35 > 0:40:41"I know not, gentlemen, what you intend..." He's reading it out!
0:40:42 > 0:40:47- People have said so many things about you.- Yes, haven't they?
0:40:47 > 0:40:53- You are known as the rudest man in Britain.- That's not fair. I'm not as rude as all that.
0:40:53 > 0:41:00- BBC's teddy bear - rough outside, warm-hearted within?- Too grizzly and too kind.- A telly phony.
0:41:00 > 0:41:05Yes, I'll accept that. It was said by someone. A radio telly phony.
0:41:05 > 0:41:11You know, let's have the full business. There's something phony about me, I suppose,
0:41:11 > 0:41:14because I have no particular talent.
0:41:14 > 0:41:19What your talent for words brought you was success at Cambridge.
0:41:19 > 0:41:23Cambridge, yes. Well, I got a scholarship. That was phony, too.
0:41:23 > 0:41:27A much cleverer boy than I ought to have had it
0:41:27 > 0:41:31and at Cambridge I suppose I enjoyed showing off.
0:41:31 > 0:41:35But Cambridge in your day didn't admit women fully to the university.
0:41:37 > 0:41:43Ah, no, it did not. That's why I was so happy. In my day we had Newnham and Girton, women's colleges.
0:41:43 > 0:41:50And they were contributive, decorative, intelligent, remote and unassertive!
0:41:50 > 0:41:57And now they're members of the university, they wear gowns and caps designed for men
0:41:57 > 0:42:01and they've ruined the place, as they ruined your university, too.
0:42:01 > 0:42:07There's one personality of this house that we haven't met yet and that's Shampoo, your dog.
0:42:07 > 0:42:11We've been hearing a lot about him. I've never heard such a noise.
0:42:11 > 0:42:17They're bringing him to me now, yes. We can't rely on Shampoo to behave properly, you see.
0:42:17 > 0:42:22He's been to the barber, he's been washed and looks very splendid.
0:42:22 > 0:42:30And he's rather cross about so many people being about whose trousers he can't bite or shoelaces undo.
0:42:30 > 0:42:36- He's a nuisance, this dog, really. - Does he come across to visitors? - Well, he might. We'll see.
0:42:36 > 0:42:40- Do you want him? - I'd like to make his acquaintance.
0:42:40 > 0:42:44- I never let him lick me. - He's certainly done it to me!
0:42:44 > 0:42:48Shampoo, is he what is known technically as a good dog?
0:42:48 > 0:42:52- Do you mean a good dog, a well-bred dog?- A well-bred dog.
0:42:52 > 0:42:57Oh, he's a well-bred dog, but a badly-behaved dog. He's independent.
0:42:57 > 0:43:03- Would you prefer him to be independent?- I think he regards me as his gross inferior.
0:43:03 > 0:43:09He's probably right. He's well-read in Chinese history. He's a little bored at the moment.
0:43:09 > 0:43:14He thinks about Mao Tse-Tung and Chiang Kai-sheck and Formosa.
0:43:14 > 0:43:19Gilbert, you are very nicely placed here. It's a charming house.
0:43:19 > 0:43:25In spite of the fact that you now have to go into hospital, for a brief moment we hope...
0:43:25 > 0:43:31- It's a long time. - The future surely must be better than the phrase you once wrote.
0:43:31 > 0:43:37- Remember your definition of the future?- I said I wish the future were over.- Yes.- Well, of course.
0:43:37 > 0:43:44The one cheerful thing about living is that every day one lives, you know it's one less.
0:43:44 > 0:43:46But, Gilbert, you're a man of faith.
0:43:46 > 0:43:51I have faith, yes, but not regular practice.
0:43:51 > 0:43:55But, you know, one gets a little tired of things, en general.
0:43:55 > 0:43:59Even this dog, even this bow-wow, you get tired of.
0:43:59 > 0:44:05But I'm not over-tired. I just feel life is only worth living if one has friends.
0:44:08 > 0:44:15First, your appearance, which everybody knows. Why did you devise your very personal style of clothes?
0:44:15 > 0:44:20Well, because I can't wear fashionable clothes.
0:44:20 > 0:44:24You see, I'm a throwback to remote ancestors of mine
0:44:24 > 0:44:30and I really would look so extraordinary if I wore coats and skirts.
0:44:30 > 0:44:36People would doubt the existence of the Almighty if they saw me looking like that.
0:44:36 > 0:44:42- I want to take you back to your childhood. Is it true that you had an unhappy childhood?- Extremely.
0:44:42 > 0:44:47- Why? Because you were a girl? - Partly. And also because
0:44:47 > 0:44:51my father and mother married without knowing anything about life at all.
0:44:51 > 0:44:57They were quite young. My mother was 17 and, poor thing, she didn't know anything about life.
0:44:57 > 0:45:00She was just made to marry my father.
0:45:00 > 0:45:05And they just didn't understand the first thing about each other.
0:45:05 > 0:45:09- What sort of woman was she? - She was very beautiful.
0:45:09 > 0:45:11She had the most terrible rages,
0:45:11 > 0:45:16which... Oh, well, I've forgiven her so long ago.
0:45:16 > 0:45:21- And what about your father? He was a notable eccentric. - Oh, a wild eccentric.
0:45:21 > 0:45:24When I was a child, I was fond of him,
0:45:24 > 0:45:29only between the ages of 13 and 17 because he was then kind to me.
0:45:29 > 0:45:33But then he suddenly turned round on me. I've never found out why.
0:45:33 > 0:45:37Did you realise as a small child how eccentric he was?
0:45:37 > 0:45:39I hardly saw him.
0:45:39 > 0:45:47- His eccentricity didn't embarrass you?- No. I saw far too much of my mother.- What was it about her?
0:45:47 > 0:45:53- Well, of course, I was a changeling, you see. - She treated you as if you were?
0:45:53 > 0:45:57Well, when I was born, she would have liked to turn me into a doll.
0:45:57 > 0:46:02And it was a great disappointment, of course, that I was not a boy.
0:46:02 > 0:46:08If I'd been Chinese, I should have been exposed on the mountains with my feet bound.
0:46:08 > 0:46:12Now I want to change the subject and ask something quite different.
0:46:12 > 0:46:16There was one episode in your career which puzzled a lot of people.
0:46:16 > 0:46:20Why did you decide to go to Hollywood and work in that machine?
0:46:20 > 0:46:26Well, I was not working in poetry at the moment and I needed to earn money.
0:46:26 > 0:46:32Did Hollywood either succeed in or even seek to lower your standards?
0:46:32 > 0:46:38- Oh, not for a moment.- How did you ward them off? They have corrupted a great many people.- I didn't have to.
0:46:38 > 0:46:44I only saw people whose behaviour was impeccable, who were highly educated
0:46:44 > 0:46:50- and the sort of people I would know in England.- Is the story of your affection for, or whatever it was,
0:46:50 > 0:46:55Marilyn Monroe just a press story or is it true? Did it really happen?
0:46:55 > 0:46:58I'll tell you what happened exactly.
0:46:58 > 0:47:04You see, she was brought to see me in Hollywood and I thought her a very nice girl.
0:47:04 > 0:47:08I thought that she had been disgracefully treated,
0:47:08 > 0:47:11most unchivalrously treated.
0:47:11 > 0:47:14If people have never been poor,
0:47:14 > 0:47:18perhaps they don't know what it is like to be hungry.
0:47:18 > 0:47:23That girl allowed a calendar to be made of her, you see.
0:47:23 > 0:47:28- Well, there have been nude... - Models.
0:47:28 > 0:47:30..models before now.
0:47:30 > 0:47:34It means nothing against a person's moral character at all.
0:47:34 > 0:47:39This poor girl was absolutely persecuted by people.
0:47:39 > 0:47:45She has, or had, an unfortunate attraction for an extremely unpleasant kind of man,
0:47:45 > 0:47:49whom she avoided assiduously. I have seen her do that.
0:47:49 > 0:47:53I really did. She behaved like a lady.
0:47:53 > 0:47:59And has she shown pleasure and gratitude for the kindness you showed to her?
0:47:59 > 0:48:04Indeed. When she and her husband, for whom I have very great admiration, came to London,
0:48:04 > 0:48:09they were asked who they wanted to see and I was one of the first.
0:48:09 > 0:48:16And they came, but of course we couldn't talk. Every kind of person was hanging about outside
0:48:16 > 0:48:22and going and telling lies afterwards, but I saw them again alone in New York
0:48:22 > 0:48:27and we had the most delightful talk. I hope one day to see them again.
0:48:27 > 0:48:31Do you, in fact, find it very easy to make close personal friendships?
0:48:31 > 0:48:36Yes. When I die, I will be able to say that I think that I've had...
0:48:36 > 0:48:41that I've given more devotion and had more devotion
0:48:41 > 0:48:43than most people I know.
0:48:45 > 0:48:49To transfer for one second to an actress now
0:48:49 > 0:48:54unfortunately no longer with us, but one of my idols, Marilyn Monroe.
0:48:54 > 0:48:58Ah, the most wonderful, darling eccentric you could ever meet.
0:48:58 > 0:49:02She was a wonderful, wonderful woman and a very, very great artist.
0:49:02 > 0:49:08- I adored her. Marvellous.- The legend is still with us, isn't it?
0:49:08 > 0:49:14There will never be anyone like her. She was most extraordinary because I'd admired her, of course,
0:49:14 > 0:49:19and when I went to work with her I wondered how much was direction.
0:49:19 > 0:49:21And 100% was her.
0:49:21 > 0:49:25And George Cukor, who was a very bright, clever director,
0:49:25 > 0:49:29with a reputation for handling leading ladies, he let her
0:49:29 > 0:49:34do it entirely her own way. Marvellous woman.
0:49:34 > 0:49:38She was not a very regular attendant.
0:49:38 > 0:49:42- You mean she was late?- She used to sometimes be a fortnight late, yes.
0:49:42 > 0:49:44LAUGHTER
0:49:44 > 0:49:49In terms of soccer, what have been the couple of offers?
0:49:49 > 0:49:55Just a couple of inquiries, whether I was available to go back into football management.
0:49:55 > 0:50:00Not in the First Division. One in the Second and one in the Third.
0:50:00 > 0:50:05Would you go back to anything other than the First Division?
0:50:05 > 0:50:10It's not a case of going back into... Or making set things, the First or Second.
0:50:10 > 0:50:15I just wouldn't go back into football at this present time.
0:50:15 > 0:50:19The last time I was employed, I rather got my fingers burnt.
0:50:19 > 0:50:22I walked around like that for weeks!
0:50:22 > 0:50:28I wasn't there very long at Leeds and the sack really hit me right between the eyes.
0:50:28 > 0:50:34How did it happen? How did someone who employed you 40-odd days earlier give you the sack?
0:50:34 > 0:50:38It's very special, the men with the ability to do that type of thing.
0:50:38 > 0:50:44Because 44 days ago, before I got the sack, they were saying they hoped I was there for life.
0:50:44 > 0:50:49Then they're saying, "I'm not sure we made the right decision."
0:50:49 > 0:50:54And I said, "I'm absolutely certain I made the wrong decision with you bloody lot."
0:50:54 > 0:50:57And it went on those type of lines.
0:50:57 > 0:51:02Should you have known it would never work or could you have made it work?
0:51:02 > 0:51:04I could have made it work with time.
0:51:04 > 0:51:09Obviously, it's inevitable I made a few mistakes during the 44 days.
0:51:09 > 0:51:16- What sort of mistakes?- Perhaps I didn't give them chance enough to get over the guy there before me.
0:51:16 > 0:51:18He was there for a long, long time.
0:51:18 > 0:51:23Perhaps I wanted to...get with them the same feeling they had with him.
0:51:23 > 0:51:29I'm loath to mention him, you know, and if we can refrain from doing it, we'll do so.
0:51:29 > 0:51:35- You hate to mention him why? - Because he's a very talented man and I don't like him.
0:51:35 > 0:51:37LAUGHTER
0:51:37 > 0:51:42- That's...- Don't ask me why. That's exactly what it is.
0:51:42 > 0:51:45He's a very talented man and his record is unsurpassable,
0:51:45 > 0:51:50but I don't happen to like him and the way he goes about football.
0:51:50 > 0:51:57- Football is a game of opinion. There are people in your profession who don't like you.- For sure.
0:51:57 > 0:52:03And it makes the game go round. Half the country don't like a Labour government, but the other half do.
0:52:03 > 0:52:09- Why don't you want me to ask why you don't like him?- Because I can't tell you. It's impossible.
0:52:09 > 0:52:12We'd get closed down, David. LAUGHTER
0:52:16 > 0:52:18I'm not one to envy people
0:52:18 > 0:52:22because I've always had reasonable things going for me.
0:52:22 > 0:52:24People envy things they can't get.
0:52:24 > 0:52:29I've never felt envy in my life. I haven't been jealous of many people.
0:52:29 > 0:52:36I've been very fortunate there, but I do feel envy when this particular man has got this particular job.
0:52:36 > 0:52:42And this is the thing I've got to dismiss from my mind. Very important. Envy crucifies you.
0:52:42 > 0:52:46- Jealousy? Blow me.- A really destructive emotion.- It's murder.
0:52:46 > 0:52:53If you spend any time in your day being jealous... The guys that give you stick or will continue to,
0:52:53 > 0:52:58it's 90% jealousy. And they must be right bums.
0:52:58 > 0:53:04- Jealousy certainly is a very destructive emotion. - Oh, it must be terrible.
0:53:04 > 0:53:08Who's the sportsman and politician you admire? What sort of people?
0:53:08 > 0:53:13Politicians? Well, we're off politicians a bit at the moment. I personally am.
0:53:13 > 0:53:18I was stars in the sky about politicians, but they keep failing.
0:53:18 > 0:53:22And the remarkable part about it is I canvass for my local MP,
0:53:22 > 0:53:27who I happen to believe is a very sincere man and a good MP,
0:53:29 > 0:53:34but I look at politicians broadly and they come back to us, having made such a mess of it,
0:53:34 > 0:53:39and say, "Put us back there again". I find this incredible.
0:53:39 > 0:53:45It's an aspect of political life. they have the gall to knock on your door and tell us we're in trouble,
0:53:45 > 0:53:50problems, we all have to pull our belts in, and I've paid them
0:53:50 > 0:53:54or I have contributed for them to work to put it right.
0:53:54 > 0:54:00We paid their wages and they make such a mess of it and ask to do it all again.
0:54:00 > 0:54:05You've got to be as thick as... to do that, or a very talented man.
0:54:05 > 0:54:09I read a quote by Bill Nicholson and he also told me personally
0:54:09 > 0:54:14that when his daughter was getting married in a church, he stood there
0:54:14 > 0:54:21and thought, "Where have the 18 or 19 or 20 years gone that she was a little baby?"
0:54:21 > 0:54:26And he'd missed out completely on that particular aspect of his life.
0:54:26 > 0:54:31I will never, ever, ever allow that to happen to me
0:54:31 > 0:54:35because that is total failure as a human being, not a manager.
0:54:35 > 0:54:40- When you die and someone writes your epitaph, what would you like them to say?- Oh, no.
0:54:40 > 0:54:45I've never, ever given it a thought about dying. It frightens me.
0:54:45 > 0:54:51It frightens me to think that I'll ever get to the stage where I will contemplate dying.
0:54:51 > 0:54:54They tell me it happens to us all,
0:54:54 > 0:54:58but I've not quite got into that bracket yet where I think about it.
0:54:58 > 0:55:02When they write it, I don't want anyone to write anything.
0:55:02 > 0:55:06I just want a couple of people round there when I die.
0:55:07 > 0:55:12Is fear an emotion which you are conscious of greatly?
0:55:12 > 0:55:16Yes, I think fear of... fear of illness
0:55:16 > 0:55:22and fear of... physical loss of mobility,
0:55:22 > 0:55:26fear of failure. Yes, I'm full of fears.
0:55:26 > 0:55:33- Now was your mother, who is still alive...- She's not. She's dead.- I beg your pardon.
0:55:33 > 0:55:38Was your mother a... a refuge from stern discipline?
0:55:38 > 0:55:44Yes, she was always a sort of comforting and, on the whole,
0:55:44 > 0:55:50rather over-ready source of assuagement
0:55:50 > 0:55:54and there was always a sort of bosom to cry on.
0:55:54 > 0:55:58Is there any truth in the notion I have in the back of my mind
0:55:58 > 0:56:04that it is this particularly deep relation that you had with your mother
0:56:04 > 0:56:09- which has made it impossible so far for you to marry?- Yes, I think so.
0:56:09 > 0:56:13You see, my sister didn't marry and I didn't marry
0:56:13 > 0:56:17and my mother was a widow just when she was 30.
0:56:17 > 0:56:24So when we came to live together, we put up a cloud of sexual frustration that could blot out the sun.
0:56:24 > 0:56:28And I've never been particularly affectionate.
0:56:28 > 0:56:33I'm... One of my troubles is that I don't attract affection very much
0:56:33 > 0:56:35and when I do I tend to repel it.
0:56:35 > 0:56:43- I'm not a sort of intimate or cosy person.- Do you like living in close contact with anybody else,
0:56:43 > 0:56:49- of either sex, or do you prefer your own...?- No, I don't like living in close contact with anybody.
0:56:49 > 0:56:54I like to think it's because I've realised I'm almost unfit to live with,
0:56:54 > 0:57:00but that's probably giving myself the benefit of thinking I'm largely unselfish.
0:57:00 > 0:57:05- I think I'm pretty difficult to live with.- Are you lonely as a result? - Profoundly lonely, yes.
0:57:05 > 0:57:11- If you could have worked this out, this would have been a great thing. - Yes. I'm very envious of people,
0:57:11 > 0:57:16especially people who have children, but it's better that I didn't marry.
0:57:16 > 0:57:20- Have you ever been with a person dying?- Yes, only once.
0:57:20 > 0:57:23Do you remember that?
0:57:23 > 0:57:26Someone very close to you?
0:57:27 > 0:57:31- Did it make a vivid impression? - VOICE BREAKING: It did, yes.
0:57:31 > 0:57:36- Is that the only time you've seen a person dead?- Only once, yes.
0:57:38 > 0:57:44- Are you afraid ever of death? - I'm not afraid of death. I'm afraid of dying.
0:57:44 > 0:57:49I shall be very glad to be dead, but I don't look forward to the process.
0:57:49 > 0:57:55You've been, as it's been announced in the newspapers, seriously, even gravely ill once or twice.
0:57:55 > 0:57:59- Have you ever thought that perhaps you were going to die?- No.
0:57:59 > 0:58:05When one's very ill, one doesn't think of that. Afterwards, when people tell you how ill you've been,
0:58:05 > 0:58:11in my case at least I feel, "Why on earth did they bother?" It would be better to let me go.
0:58:11 > 0:58:15And that, of course, is very mean. I should feel very grateful.
0:58:15 > 0:58:22But you are not bothered at the thought of being dead, if you could get over the hurdle of dying.
0:58:22 > 0:58:28I would much rather be dead than alive, if I hadn't got to go through the miseries of actually dying.
0:59:00 > 0:59:02Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd