0:00:01 > 0:00:04I always think that, the highlight of your amusing and exciting life
0:00:04 > 0:00:05was that time you frightened
0:00:05 > 0:00:08half of the United States out of their wits, back in the 1930s
0:00:08 > 0:00:12with your tremendous broadcast pretending that Mars was invading the world.
0:00:12 > 0:00:15What do you mean pretending? Really!
0:00:15 > 0:00:17Haven't you heard about the flying saucer?
0:00:17 > 0:00:21Indeed. Do you look back on that with a certain amount of pleasure?
0:00:21 > 0:00:24Well, I look back on it with a certain amount of wonder,
0:00:24 > 0:00:27because we never imagined, when we did the show,
0:00:27 > 0:00:32that as many people would be as excited as they were.
0:00:32 > 0:00:35We thought a few people on the lunatic fringe
0:00:35 > 0:00:39might be vaguely disturbed by these rumours, which were broadcast,
0:00:39 > 0:00:40but turned out to be...
0:00:40 > 0:00:43- More people on the fringe that you thought.- Well, I don't think so.
0:00:43 > 0:00:46I don't think it was.
0:00:46 > 0:00:51I think we underrated the...the prestige of radio, at that moment.
0:00:51 > 0:00:55Anything that was said on the radio was automatically true.
0:00:55 > 0:00:57After that nobody ever believed anything on the radio.
0:00:57 > 0:01:00And on Pearl Harbour, the day of Pearl Harbour in America,
0:01:00 > 0:01:02I was doing a broadcast, which was interrupted,
0:01:02 > 0:01:05with the announcement that Pearl Harbour had been attacked.
0:01:05 > 0:01:09And everybody in America said, "It's rather bad taste to do it again."
0:01:54 > 0:01:56Do you have any qualms about that?
0:01:56 > 0:01:58This muckraking and going over an old scandal
0:01:58 > 0:02:00that should be dead and buried by now?
0:02:00 > 0:02:03No, no. Certainly not.
0:02:03 > 0:02:06And it shouldn't be dead and buried, either.
0:02:06 > 0:02:09It's unfortunate,
0:02:09 > 0:02:11I think for Mr Profumo, but we can...
0:02:11 > 0:02:14It's not all about him, by any means,
0:02:14 > 0:02:18it's about the girl, and the story of this girl,
0:02:18 > 0:02:21which is not an uninteresting story, at all.
0:02:21 > 0:02:23We can forgive Mr Profumo.
0:02:23 > 0:02:27We can do what we can to see that he's rehabilitated,
0:02:27 > 0:02:29because he has tried very hard.
0:02:29 > 0:02:32By all means, forgive the individual, but you can't forget it.
0:02:32 > 0:02:34You see, what worries people is,
0:02:34 > 0:02:36I think there was a comment of yours on this.
0:02:36 > 0:02:40And it may be inaccurate, but it was a quote that you said,
0:02:40 > 0:02:42people can sneer as much as they like,
0:02:42 > 0:02:44but I'll take the 150,000 copies we're going to sell.
0:02:44 > 0:02:47I believe you're now going to sell...
0:02:47 > 0:02:49printing at 200,000.
0:02:49 > 0:02:51It suggests that you are, in fact,
0:02:51 > 0:02:54lining your pocket with rather sleazy material.
0:02:54 > 0:02:57Well, I don't agree it's sleazy, for a minute.
0:02:58 > 0:03:00Nor do I agree that it's unfair
0:03:00 > 0:03:02to the man, or anything else.
0:03:02 > 0:03:04I have the greatest sympathy with him.
0:03:04 > 0:03:06But, it doesn't alter the fact that
0:03:06 > 0:03:09everybody knows what happened.
0:03:09 > 0:03:13Certainly, it's going to sell newspapers, so there will be other
0:03:13 > 0:03:17stories we'll put in which will sell newspapers, so...
0:03:17 > 0:03:18We're not ashamed of that.
0:03:18 > 0:03:22It seems to me that it's very tempting for someone in your position,
0:03:22 > 0:03:26with a new paper to start, to turn it into a salacious scandal sheet,
0:03:26 > 0:03:30because there's absolutely no doubt that if it were that,
0:03:30 > 0:03:31it would get a big circulation.
0:03:31 > 0:03:33How do you resist the temptation?
0:03:33 > 0:03:36Well, I doubt very much whether you are right,
0:03:36 > 0:03:37that it would get a big circulation.
0:03:37 > 0:03:40You might get one overnight, but it wouldn't stay with you,
0:03:40 > 0:03:42and you wouldn't have the loyalty of your readers.
0:03:42 > 0:03:46You wouldn't have people wanting it to go into their home regularly.
0:03:46 > 0:03:48You might get people on the street corner buying it, quickly,
0:03:48 > 0:03:50but you wouldn't hold the thing.
0:03:50 > 0:03:54Depends what you call by spice and sex, and salaciousness,
0:03:54 > 0:03:56and muckraking and so on,
0:03:56 > 0:03:59so I...obviously we're not going to avoid the subject.
0:04:02 > 0:04:04But, um...
0:04:04 > 0:04:07it's not going to be a dirty paper.
0:04:07 > 0:04:09I'm not a great sacker.
0:04:09 > 0:04:10I'm a very bad sacker.
0:04:10 > 0:04:12Um...
0:04:12 > 0:04:15HE MUMBLES
0:04:16 > 0:04:19Because there were two well-known cases in Australia of editors
0:04:19 > 0:04:20whom I had given immense freedom to
0:04:20 > 0:04:22and have made quite names for themselves,
0:04:22 > 0:04:24they ended up making such names for themselves,
0:04:24 > 0:04:28they were spending their time giving speeches everywhere instead of editing.
0:04:28 > 0:04:30And we did come,
0:04:30 > 0:04:32we did come to a stage of parting
0:04:32 > 0:04:34with both of them.
0:04:34 > 0:04:37I certainly didn't enjoy it.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39People always say they don't enjoy it,
0:04:39 > 0:04:41and I always have a suspicion that underneath it there is
0:04:41 > 0:04:45a kind of pleasure in being powerful enough to sack someone,
0:04:45 > 0:04:48just as the pleasure of being powerful enough to hire someone.
0:04:49 > 0:04:51No, no.
0:04:51 > 0:04:55First person I ever fired, I remember, you know,
0:04:55 > 0:04:57I went and took him and walked him in the park.
0:04:57 > 0:05:00I think I ended up in tears instead of him.
0:05:02 > 0:05:05No, it's a horrible thing. Horrible thing!
0:05:07 > 0:05:09Was there, I mean, it seems a daft question,
0:05:09 > 0:05:13but was there, at all, a funny side to it, Eric?
0:05:13 > 0:05:17What, the illness? Oh, well, in a way there was. You know...
0:05:17 > 0:05:20we were working at this club in Batley, as two waiters.
0:05:20 > 0:05:21And, um...
0:05:22 > 0:05:27I've got a bit of a twinge in my arm and I have to say to Ernie,
0:05:27 > 0:05:30I don't feel too good, I'll go home tonight and...
0:05:30 > 0:05:31So, I signed the autograph.
0:05:31 > 0:05:33You sign the autograph.
0:05:33 > 0:05:37So...of course, his wife always asks.
0:05:37 > 0:05:39And, funnily enough,
0:05:39 > 0:05:41I didn't realise, fortunately,
0:05:41 > 0:05:45it was a heart attack, you see?
0:05:45 > 0:05:47Had I thought it was a heart attack,
0:05:47 > 0:05:49I'd have had a heart attack and died.
0:05:49 > 0:05:54Because I always thought a heart-attack was biya-bib-yab!
0:05:54 > 0:05:56But it's just, you know, it's not like that at all. It's just...
0:05:56 > 0:05:58SQUEAK
0:05:58 > 0:06:01- And, um, I thought... - It's like what?
0:06:01 > 0:06:06And, I thought, "Well, I'd better put myself into a hospital," you know.
0:06:06 > 0:06:08And I was driving the car, and it was getting worse.
0:06:08 > 0:06:10So, maybe about 1.30 in the morning,
0:06:10 > 0:06:13and I stopped a fella in Leeds, and I said,
0:06:13 > 0:06:15"Could you...I don't feel very well,
0:06:15 > 0:06:17"do you think you could..."
0:06:17 > 0:06:19I had a Jensen in those days,
0:06:19 > 0:06:22and I said, "Do you feel you could take me to a hospital?
0:06:22 > 0:06:25"I don't feel very well. I'd like to sign myself into a hospital."
0:06:25 > 0:06:28And a fellow called Walter Butterworth, I'll never forget him...
0:06:28 > 0:06:31Wasn't his real name, but I'll never forget him.
0:06:31 > 0:06:34He said, "Yes. Oh, aye."
0:06:35 > 0:06:38"Hey, you're, er..."
0:06:40 > 0:06:42"..Morton and White."
0:06:42 > 0:06:45And I said, "Morecambe and Wise, yes."
0:06:45 > 0:06:48So, he said, "Oh, well, I've never driven one of these.
0:06:48 > 0:06:51"I'm in the territorials. I've only driven a tank."
0:06:51 > 0:06:53This is true, this.
0:06:53 > 0:06:57So, he gets in there, and there's 7,000 quid going, joy-wi-way!
0:06:57 > 0:06:59Up the road.
0:06:59 > 0:07:01And there's me going, hiyo-ho-yohi-yo!
0:07:01 > 0:07:04I got to the stage where I couldn't have cared less, you know.
0:07:04 > 0:07:09So, he takes me to a hospital, and it's locked.
0:07:09 > 0:07:10It's true.
0:07:10 > 0:07:12There are some French windows, and he's going... Bing-bing!
0:07:12 > 0:07:13..on the French windows,
0:07:13 > 0:07:16while I'm stood at the side of him going, like this.
0:07:16 > 0:07:17Windows open, like that.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20And a fellow there in braces and a pair of pants.
0:07:20 > 0:07:23He goes, "You can't come in here."
0:07:23 > 0:07:27I said... "Can't!"
0:07:27 > 0:07:31So he opens a little crack, he says, "This isn't a proper hospital."
0:07:31 > 0:07:34He says, "You want the main one up the road."
0:07:34 > 0:07:36So, he explained where it was.
0:07:36 > 0:07:38And he drove me there, did this Walter.
0:07:38 > 0:07:41And, I got out the car and he ran around, it was up a brew,
0:07:41 > 0:07:42you know, up a hill.
0:07:42 > 0:07:44And he went in there
0:07:44 > 0:07:51to try and get me some form of wheelchair, you know.
0:07:51 > 0:07:56So, he's there, five minutes. I'm waiting.
0:07:56 > 0:07:57So, I start to walk up this hill.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00Quasimodo, going up there, you know.
0:08:00 > 0:08:01And I go in there,
0:08:01 > 0:08:04and he's obviously said to the fellow behind the counter,
0:08:04 > 0:08:06"Eric Morecambe is out there and he's not very well. Could I have..."
0:08:06 > 0:08:09And the fellow wouldn't let him have a chair, as far as I can make out.
0:08:09 > 0:08:12So, I walked in. The fellow looked at me. he went, "Oh-ho-ho, yes!"
0:08:14 > 0:08:16And he says to all the boils and the cuts
0:08:16 > 0:08:19and the slashes in the corner, there, in the outpatients.
0:08:19 > 0:08:20"Eh! 'Tis him!"
0:08:23 > 0:08:24This is true! You know.
0:08:24 > 0:08:26So, I said... My real name is Bartholomew,
0:08:26 > 0:08:29I never tell anybody that, but my real name is Bartholomew.
0:08:29 > 0:08:32So, he says, "You don't look too good, son."
0:08:32 > 0:08:36I said, "No, I'd like to sign, put myself into a hospital, you see?"
0:08:36 > 0:08:38He said, "Well, right.
0:08:38 > 0:08:39"Now then."
0:08:42 > 0:08:44"Name?"
0:08:44 > 0:08:47So, I thought, "Well, I won't say Bartholomew, I'll say Morecambe."
0:08:47 > 0:08:49He said, "Oh, aye.
0:08:49 > 0:08:53"Address?" Which I gave. "Age?" Which I lied about.
0:08:53 > 0:08:55He said, "You don't look too well.
0:08:55 > 0:08:57"You better go and lie down on that thing."
0:08:57 > 0:08:59So, I'm lying down on a stretcher bed.
0:08:59 > 0:09:02The next thing I know I'm being injected.
0:09:02 > 0:09:04This Walter Butterworth is sat with me.
0:09:04 > 0:09:07And I say, "I'd like to say thank you very much for all your help,
0:09:07 > 0:09:09"and everything." He said, "Oh, that's all right.
0:09:09 > 0:09:13"It's been a pleasure." He says, "My mates won't believe this."
0:09:14 > 0:09:17He says, and these are the exact words he uses, he says,
0:09:17 > 0:09:19"Will you do us a favour?"
0:09:19 > 0:09:20I said, "What?"
0:09:20 > 0:09:21He says, "Before you go, will you sign?"
0:09:21 > 0:09:24LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:09:26 > 0:09:28It's true, that.
0:09:34 > 0:09:40When we got back from Dunkirk, I, for the first time, met Churchill
0:09:40 > 0:09:42on the beaches of Brighton,
0:09:42 > 0:09:47where we were, where my division was getting ready to repel invasion,
0:09:47 > 0:09:50you see? Which they thought was coming.
0:09:50 > 0:09:51Now, I didn't know then,
0:09:51 > 0:09:54I'd been through all of Dunkirk campaign,
0:09:54 > 0:09:59and before it, I didn't see, then, how we possibly could win this war.
0:09:59 > 0:10:00Hitler's war.
0:10:00 > 0:10:03Nor did he. We discussed it.
0:10:03 > 0:10:06But by the time I'd spent the day with him,
0:10:06 > 0:10:08I said, "We shall now win.
0:10:08 > 0:10:10"We've got the man.
0:10:10 > 0:10:15"It's the man that matters. And we've got the man and we shall win.
0:10:15 > 0:10:18"But how we shall win, I'm not yet clear."
0:10:18 > 0:10:21And, after that day with Churchill, he asked me to go
0:10:21 > 0:10:23and have dinner with him that night,
0:10:23 > 0:10:27in the Royal Beach Hotel before going back to London.
0:10:27 > 0:10:31And it was at that dinner that he said to me,
0:10:31 > 0:10:33"General, what would you drink?"
0:10:35 > 0:10:37And I said, "Water."
0:10:37 > 0:10:39He said, "Water?"
0:10:39 > 0:10:41I said, "Yes.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44"I don't drink, and I don't smoke.
0:10:44 > 0:10:46"And I'm 100% fit."
0:10:46 > 0:10:49And, like a flash, the old man said, "I drink and I smoke,
0:10:49 > 0:10:51"and I'm 200% fit."
0:10:53 > 0:10:55And I knew then we should win the war.
0:10:55 > 0:10:57I've led a very abstemious life, you see?
0:10:57 > 0:10:59I...I don't...
0:10:59 > 0:11:01I don't drink.
0:11:01 > 0:11:03I don't smoke.
0:11:03 > 0:11:05And I've never been mixed up with women.
0:11:07 > 0:11:10You were once married, come on, Field Marshal.
0:11:10 > 0:11:13- I was married for 10 years. - Yes, you were.
0:11:13 > 0:11:15Only one woman in my life. Only one.
0:11:15 > 0:11:18You were married late, weren't you? You were married when you were what?
0:11:18 > 0:11:22- 40.- 40. I hadn't time. I was studying my profession.
0:11:22 > 0:11:24What about the young people?
0:11:24 > 0:11:27Well, I don't mind the young people of today.
0:11:27 > 0:11:30I mean, if they like to have long hair and miniskirts.
0:11:30 > 0:11:32I remember the first time I saw a miniskirt in Farnham,
0:11:32 > 0:11:34I turned around and looked at her.
0:11:34 > 0:11:36I put my spectacles on and what is that? You see?
0:11:36 > 0:11:40I think it's the way of expressing themselves,
0:11:40 > 0:11:43and the fact that the boys wear long hair, let them wear long hair.
0:11:43 > 0:11:47But I have a great belief in youth.
0:11:47 > 0:11:50And I am quite convinced, myself,
0:11:50 > 0:11:54that if this country, were ever in real danger again,
0:11:54 > 0:11:58all these young people would turn out, just the same as ever,
0:11:58 > 0:12:00I'm sure they would.
0:12:00 > 0:12:02At heart, they're all right.
0:12:02 > 0:12:05And they've got to express themselves, and, up-to-date,
0:12:05 > 0:12:07they've not been allowed to.
0:12:07 > 0:12:11Now, they demand that they must be allowed to. And that's all right.
0:12:11 > 0:12:12I don't think they are very...
0:12:12 > 0:12:15They are up against their politicians, you see?
0:12:15 > 0:12:19Well, I, I don't blame them, sometimes, you see?
0:12:19 > 0:12:22I think the politicians are the people who make war.
0:12:22 > 0:12:24We don't make wars.
0:12:24 > 0:12:25Politicians make wars.
0:12:25 > 0:12:28And when they've got the whole thing into a first-class muck,
0:12:28 > 0:12:31they call on the soldiers to un-muck it.
0:12:32 > 0:12:36Ladies and gentlemen, Mr Paul McCartney
0:12:44 > 0:12:48Paul, it's great to have you here, and one thing, as we've been
0:12:48 > 0:12:52rehearsing today, that I've been wondering, is whether, in fact,
0:12:52 > 0:12:57you ever expected things to be as good for you as in fact they've been.
0:12:57 > 0:13:01When you started as a group, did you expect things to go like this?
0:13:01 > 0:13:07No, we used to, sort of, think of things in stages. Still do, I think.
0:13:07 > 0:13:11When we first started off, you know, playing in the Cavern, and things,
0:13:11 > 0:13:14I thought, first of all, let's get a record contract.
0:13:14 > 0:13:15We all did.
0:13:15 > 0:13:19We got a record contract and we said, let's get a number one hit.
0:13:19 > 0:13:21Got one of them. You know?
0:13:21 > 0:13:26- So I hear.- It went on. We do it in stages so, we never thought.
0:13:26 > 0:13:29But, after you got a number one hit, you hoped for another number one hit.
0:13:29 > 0:13:32- Yeah.- And then what?
0:13:32 > 0:13:35Something like the Royal Variety Performance.
0:13:35 > 0:13:40Something, sort of, big. Then, what came after that? America, I think.
0:13:40 > 0:13:44- Which was marvellous, and after America?- Film.- Now, it's fairly close
0:13:44 > 0:13:48to the film being as big a success as everything else, I should think.
0:13:48 > 0:13:51Now, if it is in, sort of, a bit later this year, a big success,
0:13:51 > 0:13:54what will be the next ambition, then?
0:13:54 > 0:13:57I don't know. Another film, probably.
0:13:57 > 0:14:01- You know.- Then that will be a success, and what about after that?
0:14:01 > 0:14:03Don't ask me, you know, I'm only doing it.
0:14:05 > 0:14:09Have you got any ambitions, in fact, in other spheres completely?
0:14:09 > 0:14:12I mean, do you want to be prime minister one day, that sort of thing?
0:14:12 > 0:14:17No. I don't want to be, nothing like that, no. God! Retire.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23When do you think you'll achieve that ambition, exactly?
0:14:23 > 0:14:27The way things are going, in a couple of years or so.
0:14:27 > 0:14:30- No idea.- But, what, when people usually ask you,
0:14:30 > 0:14:35what's the best thing about being one of the Beatles, at this stage,
0:14:35 > 0:14:38what do you usually reply, the money, as the first quip,
0:14:38 > 0:14:40but what, after that, is one of the good things?
0:14:40 > 0:14:46Um, being able to do things that you enjoy doing, rather than,
0:14:46 > 0:14:49if, you know, you get a bit of power
0:14:49 > 0:14:53when you...you reach a certain stage where you get a bit of power,
0:14:53 > 0:14:57in that you can say, suggest things that you want to do to people,
0:14:57 > 0:15:00and we can turn around to Brian and say,
0:15:00 > 0:15:02could we do such and such a thing.
0:15:02 > 0:15:06Like a film, and he can say, "Well, I'll try and fix it, for you."
0:15:06 > 0:15:09So, you know, and he does. He's good like that.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12- Useful man to have about, actually. - Oh, he's great.
0:15:12 > 0:15:14Everybody, I imagine, says to you,
0:15:14 > 0:15:17the pop world is very short lived and everything like that,
0:15:17 > 0:15:19and what will you do when the phase passes.
0:15:19 > 0:15:21Do you think the phase will pass?
0:15:21 > 0:15:22Does it worry you?
0:15:22 > 0:15:26No. I couldn't care less, really,
0:15:26 > 0:15:29I don't think, if we flop tomorrow...
0:15:29 > 0:15:33It'll be sad, you know, but it wouldn't really worry me.
0:15:33 > 0:15:37- Could you go back to doing something else?- Oh, I don't know.
0:15:37 > 0:15:41I'd miss doing this. But I think I'd think of something else to do.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44- Something I would like to do. - What would you do?
0:15:44 > 0:15:47Write songs, but for other people.
0:15:47 > 0:15:49- I'd enjoy doing that. - Anything completely different?
0:15:49 > 0:15:53Completely different. Retire, you know. That's completely different.
0:15:53 > 0:15:55Well, thank you very much,
0:15:55 > 0:15:59it'll be a great pleasure to watch Paul McCartney in retirement,
0:15:59 > 0:16:03but it'll probably be in the year 2010, I should think.
0:16:05 > 0:16:09Kenneth and Maggie, can we talk a little bit now about showbiz,
0:16:09 > 0:16:12about something that Sir John was talking about, earlier,
0:16:12 > 0:16:16about the whole business of preservation, and this sort of thing.
0:16:16 > 0:16:18Is it something that concerns you two?
0:16:18 > 0:16:19I mean, are you, basically,
0:16:19 > 0:16:21on Sir John's side on what he says about this?
0:16:21 > 0:16:24I should think Maggie is and so am I, yes.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27Things like the dreadfulness of the Elephant and Castle,
0:16:27 > 0:16:29which used to be a place of humanity and warmth and people,
0:16:29 > 0:16:33which is now just a concrete desert, and a mess and an absolute disgrace.
0:16:33 > 0:16:36And what they've turned the Euston Centre into is the same thing.
0:16:36 > 0:16:38- It's just a blight.- Frightful.
0:16:38 > 0:16:41First act of a government that calls itself socialist,
0:16:41 > 0:16:43should be is to stop all that,
0:16:43 > 0:16:45and say homes are the most important thing.
0:16:45 > 0:16:47It makes me sick when I read all this crap about,
0:16:47 > 0:16:49"Let's have a youth club.
0:16:49 > 0:16:51"Let's have a theatre built, or let's have something else built."
0:16:51 > 0:16:53No good, all that.
0:16:53 > 0:16:56Cultural activities are no good if there is no home to go to, is there?
0:16:56 > 0:16:59- Absolutely true.- Must have a home. So, the first requisite is a home.
0:16:59 > 0:17:02- And on the ground. - Well, I was going to say.- Precisely.
0:17:08 > 0:17:11- Makes me very angry, that.- Yes. - Really makes me very angry.
0:17:11 > 0:17:14Doesn't it you? To pass a great thing, a great skyscraper, empty?
0:17:14 > 0:17:16- Right, absolutely. - I think it's an absolute scandal.
0:17:16 > 0:17:19Yet, they all get worked up about a couple of pound in their pay packet,
0:17:19 > 0:17:21or something, and go on strike.
0:17:21 > 0:17:23Why can't they have... If the unions really care,
0:17:23 > 0:17:25if they're really socialistic and say we care
0:17:25 > 0:17:28about our fellow man, why can't they force,
0:17:28 > 0:17:30why can't they march about something like that?
0:17:30 > 0:17:33Instead of another pound for themselves.
0:17:33 > 0:17:37Why not a few pounds for somebody else who's really hard up?
0:17:37 > 0:17:40But that's not the unions' problem.
0:17:40 > 0:17:42I've got support, here.
0:17:42 > 0:17:45But it's not the unions' fault, that condition...
0:17:45 > 0:17:47What is the statue outside the TUC?
0:17:47 > 0:17:49Have you looked at that statue?
0:17:49 > 0:17:53The statue outside the TUC depicts a man helping, doesn't it?
0:17:53 > 0:17:56He's helping up another man, who's on the ground.
0:17:56 > 0:17:59And that statue symbolises what the TUC stands for, doesn't it?
0:17:59 > 0:18:00Of course.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03Right, well, when a union does something like jeopardising
0:18:03 > 0:18:06the work of their fellow man, if you stop trains,
0:18:06 > 0:18:09people can't get to their work, can they? Can they?
0:18:09 > 0:18:10They can't get to work, even.
0:18:10 > 0:18:12So, in doing what you want for yourself,
0:18:12 > 0:18:14you're jeopardising your fellow men, aren't you?
0:18:14 > 0:18:17- Yes.- Well, why can't you act in concert with your fellow men?
0:18:17 > 0:18:19Why do you have to do something which endangers
0:18:19 > 0:18:21the livelihood of your fellow men?
0:18:21 > 0:18:25When that statue represents exactly that. Helping.
0:18:25 > 0:18:28Because it might be that the fellow, the one fellow,
0:18:28 > 0:18:29take two workers,
0:18:29 > 0:18:31that one fellow is a lot worse off than the other worker.
0:18:31 > 0:18:33They're not all equal, are they?
0:18:33 > 0:18:35I mean, if they were all equal, there'd be no problem.
0:18:35 > 0:18:38Precisely, but it comes down to a question of morality.
0:18:38 > 0:18:40You don't just work for another pound.
0:18:40 > 0:18:44When I took my job at £3.10 a week, I assembled small parts,
0:18:44 > 0:18:46I came out the army '47, that's what I got.
0:18:46 > 0:18:50'47, £3.10 a week, my dig's worth at 25 bob, all in, and the rest,
0:18:50 > 0:18:52I have the soap and the fags, you know.
0:18:52 > 0:18:54And the young at heart picked a shove round the bend,
0:18:54 > 0:18:56because I did my own cleaning.
0:18:56 > 0:18:58But, I saved, and because I wanted to do a job,
0:18:58 > 0:19:01and wanted to do it well, I got on, I got another rep fortnightly,
0:19:01 > 0:19:04and after that I got a monthly rep, and I got a bit better.
0:19:04 > 0:19:06I spent seven years in the provinces before I came to London.
0:19:06 > 0:19:09I think if you're prepared to do that, what are you doing it for?
0:19:09 > 0:19:12You're not saying, "I want another pound," all the time.
0:19:12 > 0:19:14- You're saying I want to do the work better.- Yes, but...
0:19:14 > 0:19:16That's the kind of morality I was brought up with.
0:19:16 > 0:19:19You don't do a job just for what you get,
0:19:19 > 0:19:21you do the job because you want to do it well.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23Kenneth, can I say, I think that's crap.
0:19:25 > 0:19:27I mean, I'm sorry, I really...
0:19:27 > 0:19:28I've never been so insulted.
0:19:33 > 0:19:35You mustn't laugh.
0:19:36 > 0:19:40- Don't take it to heart. - Whose side are you on?
0:19:42 > 0:19:44Mr Tomkins, how did you become
0:19:44 > 0:19:46a tub-thumper, a soapbox orator,
0:19:46 > 0:19:47whatever you'd like to call it?
0:19:47 > 0:19:50Well, I was walking through Lincoln's Inn Fields, one day,
0:19:50 > 0:19:51just after the War,
0:19:51 > 0:19:55and I stood and listened to a Communist speaker,
0:19:55 > 0:19:56who was speaking there.
0:19:56 > 0:19:59And he was getting away with murder.
0:19:59 > 0:20:02No-one seemed to question him or heckle him.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05So, I thought it was high time someone started.
0:20:05 > 0:20:09So, I started heckling him, and heckling other socialist speakers,
0:20:09 > 0:20:12and then one day I decided I'd have a go myself.
0:20:12 > 0:20:15It wasn't fair to heckle other people without having a go yourself,
0:20:15 > 0:20:17so I started speaking, myself.
0:20:17 > 0:20:20You started at Speakers' Corner, I believe.
0:20:20 > 0:20:23- I had appeared at Speakers' Corner. I don't now.- Why did you move?
0:20:23 > 0:20:26I don't like Hyde Park because the level of intelligence
0:20:26 > 0:20:28from the crowd there is not so high
0:20:28 > 0:20:31as it is as at other places in London,
0:20:31 > 0:20:34and most people go there purely for the laughs
0:20:34 > 0:20:36and to make themselves heard.
0:20:36 > 0:20:38I go to speaking places to make people laugh,
0:20:38 > 0:20:41to make myself heard, but then I'm in charge.
0:20:41 > 0:20:44- And you found you got a much more intelligent response.- Oh, yes.
0:20:44 > 0:20:47And the questions are on a higher intellectual level
0:20:47 > 0:20:49than they are anywhere else.
0:20:49 > 0:20:52In Lincoln's Inn Fields, the much higher than anywhere else.
0:20:52 > 0:20:57Mr Tomkins, why do speakers stand up on their soapboxes, and lecture?
0:20:57 > 0:21:00Are they frustrated actors or preachers?
0:21:00 > 0:21:02- Well, probably, actually. - Why do you?
0:21:02 > 0:21:06Well, I do it because it's a form of self-expression.
0:21:06 > 0:21:10Some people find self-expression in collecting stamps,
0:21:10 > 0:21:13or railway engine numbers, others by playing tennis,
0:21:13 > 0:21:14I do it by speaking in public,
0:21:14 > 0:21:17and the self-expression part, I think,
0:21:17 > 0:21:21comes in that it gives you a great deal of personal kudos,
0:21:21 > 0:21:22to be able to hold a crowd.
0:21:22 > 0:21:24It's one thing to be able to speak,
0:21:24 > 0:21:26you might get a dozen people listening to you,
0:21:26 > 0:21:28but if you can hold a crowd of several hundred
0:21:28 > 0:21:31you must be saying something either provocative or interesting.
0:21:31 > 0:21:34I've heard it said that you won't answer questions from women. Why not?
0:21:36 > 0:21:39Well, I don't take questions from women
0:21:39 > 0:21:41because women are so illogical.
0:21:41 > 0:21:44They seem to lose themselves in the question
0:21:44 > 0:21:46and it becomes quite irrelevant
0:21:46 > 0:21:49to the point that you're arguing about.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54The most raved about star of all.
0:21:54 > 0:21:57The girl Bardot named as her successor.
0:21:57 > 0:22:00The most wanted actress in Italy.
0:22:00 > 0:22:02A star with the head of a girl of 15,
0:22:02 > 0:22:05and the body of a woman of 22.
0:22:05 > 0:22:08Miss Claudia Cardinale, the object of all these praises,
0:22:08 > 0:22:10has just arrived in London.
0:22:10 > 0:22:13So, how could we resist seeing her ourselves?
0:22:13 > 0:22:16As I understand, your contract in Italy is very strict indeed.
0:22:16 > 0:22:20He can't get married, you can't cut your hair, you can't put on weight.
0:22:20 > 0:22:23In fact it looks as if you have cut your hair.
0:22:23 > 0:22:27Aren't you going to get imprisonment or the ducking stool for this?
0:22:27 > 0:22:29- No. It's a wig.- It's a wig, is it?
0:22:30 > 0:22:32I have my hair long till here.
0:22:32 > 0:22:34- And it's all tucked up under there. - Yes.
0:22:34 > 0:22:37But, nevertheless, this contract of yours, which forbids these things,
0:22:37 > 0:22:40doesn't this mean that you've got a lot of freedom
0:22:40 > 0:22:41eliminated from your life?
0:22:41 > 0:22:44No, I'm completely free, I can do what I want to do.
0:22:44 > 0:22:48Well, except marry, or cut your hair, or put on weight.
0:22:48 > 0:22:52No! Sure, I can't marry tomorrow morning without calling my company,
0:22:52 > 0:22:54but, I can do what I want to do.
0:22:54 > 0:22:57Well, that sounds a bit confused to me. What about putting on weight?
0:22:57 > 0:22:59Are you free to put on weight if you want to,
0:22:59 > 0:23:01without ringing your company?
0:23:01 > 0:23:03Oh, I can do what I want. Really.
0:23:03 > 0:23:07- But, anyway I don't want to cut my hair.- Or put on weight.
0:23:07 > 0:23:11- No.- Miss Cardinale, thank you very much indeed.- Thank you.
0:23:14 > 0:23:15Does it now, as a very, sort of,
0:23:15 > 0:23:17independent minded woman,
0:23:17 > 0:23:20does it sort of bother you when you look at the movie industry
0:23:20 > 0:23:23and you see that the criterion, particularly the actresses,
0:23:23 > 0:23:25is simply whether they're beautiful or not?
0:23:25 > 0:23:30- Is it?- Well, it certainly is. - No wonder I failed.
0:23:31 > 0:23:34God!
0:23:34 > 0:23:37I don't know, you see, I don't think that lasts very long.
0:23:37 > 0:23:39That lasts for only as long as your face lasts.
0:23:39 > 0:23:41And your face doesn't last very long.
0:23:41 > 0:23:43Mine doesn't, I mean, a lot of people's don't.
0:23:43 > 0:23:47I don't think that's anything to base anything on.
0:23:47 > 0:23:49I mean, then you better save your money, I figure,
0:23:49 > 0:23:54if it's all based on anything that is that superficial.
0:23:54 > 0:23:56But, I mean, wasn't it a superficial business,
0:23:56 > 0:23:59and isn't it a superficial business?
0:23:59 > 0:24:01- I mean... - I think in some areas it was.
0:24:01 > 0:24:04With some people it was, but not with all.
0:24:04 > 0:24:09I mean, the greatest stars, I mean, the real movie stars,
0:24:09 > 0:24:10that's what we're speaking of.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13- Correct?- Yes. - Are people who really could act.
0:24:15 > 0:24:17And those are the people who lasted.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20And, as far as I'm concerned, a movie star's not a movie star
0:24:20 > 0:24:22unless he can last.
0:24:23 > 0:24:25I mean, to be a movie star for a year and a half
0:24:25 > 0:24:26is not being a movie star.
0:24:26 > 0:24:29Just because your name's on the title, doesn't mean a bloody thing.
0:24:29 > 0:24:30That's true.
0:24:30 > 0:24:33Well, it doesn't!
0:24:34 > 0:24:38- I like your style. - I think you're marvellous.
0:24:39 > 0:24:43You had this fairly abrasive career with Hollywood, didn't you?
0:24:43 > 0:24:46- I mean you... - I would say, yes. A bit.
0:24:46 > 0:24:48I mean, extraordinary in that you started off so big and then,
0:24:48 > 0:24:52you had this sort of period.
0:24:52 > 0:24:54Well, I'm a perfect example of what we were speaking of earlier.
0:24:54 > 0:24:59That I started off so big at the age of 19, totally unequipped for it.
0:24:59 > 0:25:01No experience.
0:25:01 > 0:25:03Talent totally undirected.
0:25:03 > 0:25:06So, I mean, I didn't know, really, what I was doing, at all.
0:25:06 > 0:25:09In a medium that was totally strange to me.
0:25:09 > 0:25:10And unprotected.
0:25:10 > 0:25:13Because the man that I was under contract to didn't think it
0:25:13 > 0:25:15was important to protect me.
0:25:15 > 0:25:17Or any actor.
0:25:17 > 0:25:23So, from that point of view, it was, it was stardom overnight
0:25:23 > 0:25:25and then I dare you to live up to it.
0:25:25 > 0:25:27Well, I couldn't live up to it.
0:25:27 > 0:25:29So, you know, it was as fast as I went up,
0:25:29 > 0:25:32that's how fast I fell down, and spent the rest of my career
0:25:32 > 0:25:34just trying to get to some middle ground
0:25:34 > 0:25:36where I could function, because it was...
0:25:37 > 0:25:40How difficult was it for you, Lauren, afterwards,
0:25:40 > 0:25:43to live down the thing of just being Bogart's widow.
0:25:43 > 0:25:46- Was that a very difficult thing to do?- It's still going on, isn't it?
0:25:46 > 0:25:49No, it's not. Not as far as I'm concerned.
0:25:49 > 0:25:51- Are you sure? - I'm absolutely sure, yes.
0:25:51 > 0:25:53We'll move off the subject, really, in a moment.
0:25:53 > 0:25:55But I just wondered just how difficult it was,
0:25:55 > 0:25:57because, obviously it was, I mean, and still is,
0:25:57 > 0:25:59because you've got this cult thing about that.
0:25:59 > 0:26:03- Well, I think that's wonderful. He deserved that.- Yes.
0:26:03 > 0:26:08Anyone that was that extraordinary, that gifted as an actor,
0:26:08 > 0:26:11in addition to being as gifted as he was a human being,
0:26:11 > 0:26:14which was really above and beyond what most people
0:26:14 > 0:26:17ever are in their lives, that you'll ever meet in your lifetime.
0:26:17 > 0:26:20He deserved, I mean, he rates every cult
0:26:20 > 0:26:22that there can possibly be from every generation,
0:26:22 > 0:26:24and he's timeless, I mean,
0:26:24 > 0:26:29I think this will go on forever, long after my life is over. Um...
0:26:29 > 0:26:34But, as far as my relationship with him is concerned, that was our own.
0:26:34 > 0:26:42And that...I just think it's very boring of the press to continually
0:26:42 > 0:26:43talk about that.
0:26:43 > 0:26:46I mean, I did say once, and I'll say it again,
0:26:46 > 0:26:50hopefully the last time, that being a widow is not a profession.
0:26:50 > 0:26:52And that you live your life the best you can,
0:26:52 > 0:26:56and when a certain section of your life is over,
0:26:56 > 0:27:00you deal with it as best you can, and that's very private,
0:27:00 > 0:27:03and then you have to press on and do something else for yourself,
0:27:03 > 0:27:05because you're the only one that is left,
0:27:05 > 0:27:07so I'm entitled to a life of my own.
0:27:07 > 0:27:11And I'm going to have it, dammit! In spite of you, Michael Parkinson.
0:27:11 > 0:27:13APPLAUSE
0:27:19 > 0:27:21J Paul Getty is unique.
0:27:21 > 0:27:24He is the only American dollar billionaire.
0:27:24 > 0:27:29To most of us, big-money means the 75,000 prize on the Treble Chance.
0:27:29 > 0:27:31To be as rich as this man,
0:27:31 > 0:27:36you'd need to win the Pools every Saturday for 800 years.
0:27:36 > 0:27:39He could afford to give a pound note to every man, woman,
0:27:39 > 0:27:40and child in the world.
0:27:40 > 0:27:42And that includes the Chinese.
0:27:42 > 0:27:46Some people might see you as lucky, Mr Getty.
0:27:46 > 0:27:48Some as a cold calculating machine.
0:27:48 > 0:27:53Others as a daring and unique business genius with a Midas touch.
0:27:53 > 0:27:54How do you see yourself?
0:27:54 > 0:27:57Well, I see myself...
0:28:00 > 0:28:04..as a...you might say, as a tennis player.
0:28:04 > 0:28:06Um...
0:28:06 > 0:28:10just trying to volley the ball back.
0:28:12 > 0:28:14There are a great many stories,
0:28:14 > 0:28:15Mr Getty, of your care with money.
0:28:15 > 0:28:18For example you've installed a pay telephone box,
0:28:18 > 0:28:21here, in Sutton Place, to prevent your guests
0:28:21 > 0:28:24abusing your hospitality by making trunk and toll calls.
0:28:24 > 0:28:29Well, I think right-thinking guests
0:28:29 > 0:28:33would consider that was a benefit.
0:28:33 > 0:28:34It's...
0:28:36 > 0:28:38..rather...
0:28:40 > 0:28:42..daunting if you're visiting somewhere
0:28:42 > 0:28:44and you have to put in a long-distance call, and...
0:28:46 > 0:28:48..charge your host with it.
0:28:48 > 0:28:50One of your wives has said that you're much
0:28:50 > 0:28:52afraid of showing your feelings.
0:28:52 > 0:28:56She says you've never been able to open up with men,
0:28:56 > 0:28:59or indeed have an intimate man friend.
0:28:59 > 0:29:02Oh, I think I've had a few...
0:29:04 > 0:29:06..few good friends...
0:29:07 > 0:29:09..among men.
0:29:11 > 0:29:17One of the closest friends I have and the best friends I had,
0:29:17 > 0:29:19unfortunately...
0:29:21 > 0:29:24..died this morning.
0:29:24 > 0:29:26I think I had long
0:29:26 > 0:29:30and close friendship with him.
0:29:33 > 0:29:37She says, "Paul is the most lonely man I know.
0:29:37 > 0:29:40"He wants to meet the other person but he can't."
0:29:43 > 0:29:46I wouldn't say that I have ever felt particularly lonely.
0:29:46 > 0:29:48I've been too busy to feel lonely.
0:29:49 > 0:29:53You're like the squirrel in the cage.
0:29:53 > 0:29:56You race to stay where you are.
0:29:56 > 0:29:59But you must know, Mr Getty, that you can't take it with you.
0:29:59 > 0:30:02No. It's probably a good thing.
0:30:03 > 0:30:05It might be quite a burden.
0:30:07 > 0:30:10Barbra Streisand, everybody writes,
0:30:10 > 0:30:11or talks about
0:30:11 > 0:30:13the lonely life of the star,
0:30:13 > 0:30:16that she lives in tragic isolation, except the star herself, it seems.
0:30:16 > 0:30:17Is it really like that?
0:30:17 > 0:30:19Do you feel isolated? Cut-off?
0:30:19 > 0:30:24Whatever personality that particular star has
0:30:24 > 0:30:27usually conditions his,
0:30:27 > 0:30:30you know, life, socially.
0:30:30 > 0:30:35I mean, as far as loneliness goes, I mean, if one is a social person,
0:30:35 > 0:30:40you know, you can have more, a less lonely life,
0:30:40 > 0:30:43if you choose to lead a more isolated life,
0:30:43 > 0:30:46then that's what you'll get.
0:30:46 > 0:30:50I read in the paper about all this money I'm supposed to be making,
0:30:50 > 0:30:52which is so terrible, cos I don't make that kind of money.
0:30:52 > 0:30:54It's all lies.
0:30:54 > 0:30:56And people go around thinking, "Oh, Barbra Streisand,
0:30:56 > 0:30:58"the one who's making that for the two films,"
0:30:58 > 0:31:01cos they write about it like it's absolute fact, so,
0:31:01 > 0:31:04the power of the printed word is so strong,
0:31:04 > 0:31:06you know, everyone assumes it's true.
0:31:06 > 0:31:08And I find myself, you know,
0:31:08 > 0:31:11being cast into this false image of publicity,
0:31:11 > 0:31:15so when people deal with you, they're dealing with you,
0:31:15 > 0:31:18not from what you are, what you radiate,
0:31:18 > 0:31:21what your chemistry is, what your truth is,
0:31:21 > 0:31:25but what their whole preconceived...
0:31:25 > 0:31:28- Images.- ..notions are, yeah.
0:31:28 > 0:31:31That did bother me, especially when they said bad things about me,
0:31:31 > 0:31:32you know.
0:31:32 > 0:31:35It hurt me. Cos I believe in the truth so much.
0:31:35 > 0:31:38I mean, that I... it makes my life easier.
0:31:38 > 0:31:42I don't understand how anybody could sleep at night telling a lie,
0:31:42 > 0:31:44you know.
0:31:44 > 0:31:50Having distortions that are...planned.
0:31:50 > 0:31:53Cos, if somebody lies and they think it's the truth,
0:31:53 > 0:31:54that's understandable.
0:31:54 > 0:31:58But if somebody distorts and says salacious things
0:31:58 > 0:32:02for an opportunistic, you know, results, or whenever.
0:32:02 > 0:32:05I don't know how these people sleep at night.
0:32:05 > 0:32:07And that used to really bother me, you know?
0:32:07 > 0:32:09What's the most important thing that's ever happened to you?
0:32:11 > 0:32:14I guess, having a baby.
0:32:15 > 0:32:18I mean, that, to me, this just kills me, you know that?
0:32:18 > 0:32:22It's so great, when I think that I saw you when I was going to London
0:32:22 > 0:32:24and I was not pregnant, you know?
0:32:24 > 0:32:27And now I have a baby. It kinda kills me.
0:32:27 > 0:32:30You know, it was a great story about that.
0:32:30 > 0:32:34I found out I was pregnant opening night of Funny Girl in London.
0:32:35 > 0:32:37And, um...
0:32:38 > 0:32:41..I couldn't tell anybody, naturally, afterwards, you know.
0:32:41 > 0:32:43My friends and my husband knew.
0:32:43 > 0:32:47And, everyone was congratulating me and I was saying thank you,
0:32:47 > 0:32:48but for a whole other reason.
0:32:48 > 0:32:50It was wild.
0:32:52 > 0:32:55Granny said to me, marry that boy and get out of this house,
0:32:55 > 0:32:57when she was a widow and living with my mother.
0:32:57 > 0:33:00- You married when you're 16, first of all.- Yes.
0:33:00 > 0:33:02I was a widow before I was 17, and pregnant.
0:33:02 > 0:33:05- Yes.- Widows' weaves and a bun in the oven.
0:33:10 > 0:33:12Rather conventional but it happened to be right.
0:33:12 > 0:33:15But the fun about it was that, well, not fun,
0:33:15 > 0:33:17but the curious thing about it was that
0:33:17 > 0:33:20my first husband was in the RAF
0:33:20 > 0:33:23and we sat down when he became
0:33:23 > 0:33:27a pilot officer and we discussed what we were going to do about this.
0:33:27 > 0:33:29Because he had gone to my father, you see,
0:33:29 > 0:33:31and said he wanted to marry me,
0:33:31 > 0:33:32and father said no.
0:33:32 > 0:33:35So, in the end, we discussed it, because we both knew,
0:33:35 > 0:33:37as children, that he was going to be killed.
0:33:37 > 0:33:41And we also knew that were going to have one son and call him Peter.
0:33:41 > 0:33:43And we were married at eight o'clock in the morning
0:33:43 > 0:33:44on the Isle of Sheppey.
0:33:44 > 0:33:47It was two brother officers with grey flannels pulled
0:33:47 > 0:33:50over their pyjamas, as witnesses, nearly drowned that day,
0:33:50 > 0:33:53because we nearly got into the quicksands on a boat.
0:33:53 > 0:33:55And four months later he was killed.
0:33:55 > 0:33:58I heard on the Wednesday I was going to have a baby
0:33:58 > 0:33:59and he died on the Friday.
0:34:00 > 0:34:03I heard that you, in fact, were interested in faith healing.
0:34:03 > 0:34:04Is that so?
0:34:07 > 0:34:08Yes, I am.
0:34:08 > 0:34:10But I don't particularly want to talk about it, though.
0:34:10 > 0:34:11Let me ask you,
0:34:11 > 0:34:13because you've admitted that you are.
0:34:13 > 0:34:17As somebody who believes in it because she can achieve it,
0:34:17 > 0:34:19or it's been achieved?
0:34:24 > 0:34:27- COUGHS - Dear me!
0:34:27 > 0:34:30As somebody who has received and experienced it.
0:34:31 > 0:34:34- On a serious illness?- Cancer.
0:34:34 > 0:34:36- And you were cured?- Yes.
0:34:36 > 0:34:38And my doctors will confirm it.
0:34:39 > 0:34:42- That's absolutely amazing. - All right?- Yes. Yes.
0:34:42 > 0:34:46But I hold this as being the most important thing in my life
0:34:46 > 0:34:48and I don't think it's right for chatsies, can we?
0:34:48 > 0:34:49We can, and I am delighted,
0:34:49 > 0:34:52though, because I didn't want I didn't know that to be true.
0:34:52 > 0:34:54You asked me and I won't tell fibs.
0:34:57 > 0:34:59Maybe it would be better if we became like the French.
0:34:59 > 0:35:00Obviously it would be better
0:35:00 > 0:35:04if we acquired some of their art of dealing with food. But they are
0:35:04 > 0:35:06a different sort of people.
0:35:06 > 0:35:08Fanny, do you have any observations on that?
0:35:08 > 0:35:11LAUGHTER
0:35:11 > 0:35:13Had to be difficult to remember what it was.
0:35:14 > 0:35:17You implied that we had to become like the French.
0:35:17 > 0:35:19Now, I'm half French, as you all know.
0:35:19 > 0:35:21You should become like the French.
0:35:21 > 0:35:25Do you always have to become like your friends?
0:35:25 > 0:35:29Can I stop you from leaping across at one another in the unlikely event.
0:35:29 > 0:35:32- No, it's very friendly.- It is. But can I put a little point in here.
0:35:32 > 0:35:34What interests me that you made there, Fanny,
0:35:34 > 0:35:37you are working on the assumption that politicians are different.
0:35:37 > 0:35:39You believe that conservatives
0:35:39 > 0:35:41and this government is different from the other government.
0:35:41 > 0:35:44I didn't say that, either, and don't you put words into my mouth.
0:35:44 > 0:35:49In the final account, all-party politics stink.
0:35:49 > 0:35:51The historian's view.
0:35:53 > 0:35:56No, this is quite untrue.
0:35:56 > 0:36:01Politicians are not always very competent.
0:36:01 > 0:36:05Curiously enough, I think most of the time they're trying to do their best.
0:36:05 > 0:36:09- So do I. - And some of the time they succeed.
0:36:09 > 0:36:14But, the idea that there's anything disreputable about politics,
0:36:14 > 0:36:15I don't think that's true.
0:36:15 > 0:36:19I can't imagine why people devote themselves to it.
0:36:19 > 0:36:22It is the most ghastly,
0:36:22 > 0:36:25really unrewarding life there could possibly be,
0:36:25 > 0:36:30except for some extraordinary idea of fame, the grandeur of being this.
0:36:30 > 0:36:32But why do they do it?
0:36:32 > 0:36:33French politicians are in politics
0:36:33 > 0:36:35because they get their hands in the till.
0:36:35 > 0:36:38Now that makes sense.
0:36:38 > 0:36:42But that's not true about British politicians on the whole.
0:36:42 > 0:36:43On the whole, no.
0:36:43 > 0:36:47But isn't it also true, and I'm speaking against myself here,
0:36:47 > 0:36:51that in the past, the politics of France have been appalling,
0:36:51 > 0:36:53deplorable, and regrettable?
0:36:53 > 0:36:55No.
0:36:56 > 0:36:58- You're just being pig-minded. - No, not at all.
0:36:58 > 0:37:00They've had some very good governments,
0:37:00 > 0:37:01done enlightening things.
0:37:01 > 0:37:03Yes, they changed every five minutes for 20 years.
0:37:03 > 0:37:06Well, that doesn't matter. It only means that there's...
0:37:06 > 0:37:07They were the same chaps changing.
0:37:07 > 0:37:10You'll find if you look at French politics, it's musical chairs,
0:37:10 > 0:37:13except that they never take the chair away.
0:37:13 > 0:37:15There're always enough chairs for everybody.
0:37:15 > 0:37:18I know, my dear Mr Taylor, whom I admire so much,
0:37:18 > 0:37:21I know exactly what it's like arguing with you.
0:37:21 > 0:37:24It's like holding a wet eel in a high wind
0:37:24 > 0:37:27because you slither out every single time with your brilliance.
0:37:27 > 0:37:31I think only, perhaps, that I'm a little more precise and careful.
0:37:40 > 0:37:42One of the most powerful, and in many ways,
0:37:42 > 0:37:46most perplexing movements in the United States of America,
0:37:46 > 0:37:47the Black Muslims.
0:37:47 > 0:37:51They are negro extremists and they are not only a political movement,
0:37:51 > 0:37:54they're also a religious movement, and, indeed, they are a way of life.
0:37:54 > 0:37:56But, like all revolutionary movements,
0:37:56 > 0:37:59they face a challenge, because one of their most forceful leaders
0:37:59 > 0:38:04has now broken away, dissatisfied with the policy of the Black Muslims.
0:38:04 > 0:38:06He is a 38-year-old Nebraskan.
0:38:06 > 0:38:11His name was Malcolm Little, but now, because it's a name of servitude,
0:38:11 > 0:38:15he is known to the world simply as Malcolm X,
0:38:15 > 0:38:17and he's now the leader of his own independent group,
0:38:17 > 0:38:19the Muslim Mosque, Incorporated.
0:38:19 > 0:38:20First of all, can I clear up your name.
0:38:20 > 0:38:23Was it, in fact, Malcolm Little?
0:38:23 > 0:38:25I don't think it was "in fact."
0:38:25 > 0:38:27If it was "in fact" I would have let it remain.
0:38:27 > 0:38:29Little was the name of the man who formerly
0:38:29 > 0:38:31owned my grandfather as a slave.
0:38:31 > 0:38:35- So I gave it back.- So, do people now address you as Mr X?
0:38:35 > 0:38:37Mr X, Malcolm X.
0:38:37 > 0:38:41The Black Muslim policy, as I was saying, was completely separatist.
0:38:41 > 0:38:44That they wanted this separate state within the United States.
0:38:44 > 0:38:46Now, as I understand it, you don't.
0:38:46 > 0:38:50We want to be recognised and respected as human beings
0:38:50 > 0:38:52and we have a motto which tells somewhat
0:38:52 > 0:38:54how we intend to bring it about.
0:38:54 > 0:38:58Our motto is, By Any Means Necessary.
0:38:58 > 0:39:01By whatever means is necessary to bring about complete respect
0:39:01 > 0:39:05and recognition of the 22 million black people in America
0:39:05 > 0:39:09as human beings, that's what we're for, and that's where dedicated to.
0:39:09 > 0:39:11By any means.
0:39:11 > 0:39:13- By ANY means.- By any means.
0:39:13 > 0:39:15A bloodbath?
0:39:15 > 0:39:18Well, I think that as deplorable as the word bloodbath may sound,
0:39:18 > 0:39:21I think that the condition that negroes in America
0:39:21 > 0:39:25have already experienced, long too long, is just as deplorable.
0:39:25 > 0:39:27And if it takes something that deplorable to remove
0:39:27 > 0:39:31this other deplorable condition, then I don't think that it's...
0:39:31 > 0:39:34I think it's justified.
0:39:34 > 0:39:37But, don't you think there's also justification, in the case,
0:39:37 > 0:39:41for the gradual white and negro coming together.
0:39:41 > 0:39:43This gradual integration policy, because, after all,
0:39:43 > 0:39:48it's a change of heart and mind, and everything else for both sides.
0:39:48 > 0:39:51In America, I don't think there's any gradual coming together.
0:39:51 > 0:39:54There may be a gradual coming together at the top.
0:39:54 > 0:39:56A few hand-picked, uppercrust, bourgeois,
0:39:56 > 0:40:00negroes are coming together with the so-called liberal element
0:40:00 > 0:40:03in the white community, but at the mass level,
0:40:03 > 0:40:05I don't think there's any real, honest, sincere coming together.
0:40:05 > 0:40:08If anything, there is a widening of the gap.
0:40:08 > 0:40:11Now, if there is this widening of the gap, then,
0:40:11 > 0:40:13when you see this explosion taking place?
0:40:13 > 0:40:17Well, that doesn't necessarily have to be an explosion
0:40:17 > 0:40:22if the proper type of education is brought about to give the people
0:40:22 > 0:40:26the correct understanding of the causes of these conditions that exist
0:40:26 > 0:40:29and to try and educate them away from this animosity and hostility.
0:40:29 > 0:40:33- But, this education takes a long time.- Not as long as legislation.
0:40:33 > 0:40:35Education will do it much faster than legislation.
0:40:35 > 0:40:38You can't legislate good will.
0:40:38 > 0:40:41Now, you said, at the end of 1963, that 1964
0:40:41 > 0:40:45will be a very explosive year, and in many ways, Mr X, it has.
0:40:45 > 0:40:49Has it been as explosive as you would have hoped?
0:40:49 > 0:40:50That's not the question.
0:40:50 > 0:40:53Has it been as explosive as I would have thought?
0:40:53 > 0:40:56It wasn't as explosive as I would have thought.
0:40:56 > 0:41:00I think the miracle of 1964 was the ability of the American negro
0:41:00 > 0:41:05to restrain himself against extreme, unjust provocation
0:41:05 > 0:41:08and dilly-dallying on the part of the United States government,
0:41:08 > 0:41:10where his rights are concerned.
0:41:10 > 0:41:11Will he restrain himself so in 1965?
0:41:11 > 0:41:15I very much doubt that he will restrain himself so
0:41:15 > 0:41:16very much longer.
0:41:16 > 0:41:19- Mr X, thank you very much, indeed.- You're welcome.
0:41:22 > 0:41:25When the vote was eventually given to women, did you feel
0:41:25 > 0:41:27that the struggle was over and that now women
0:41:27 > 0:41:29would move into their proper place?
0:41:29 > 0:41:32No, I don't think so, because, you see,
0:41:32 > 0:41:38we were basing our request for the vote on inequalities
0:41:38 > 0:41:42and injustices and lack of opportunity.
0:41:42 > 0:41:45So, that we knew that the moment we got the tool
0:41:45 > 0:41:49we had to go on working for that, you see.
0:41:49 > 0:41:51What was your view of the Pankhursts?
0:41:51 > 0:41:53They were extremely brilliant.
0:41:54 > 0:41:57I spoke on the same platform with Mrs Pankhurst
0:41:57 > 0:42:02and Christabel before they became very pertinent.
0:42:02 > 0:42:07And they were completely one idea, quite ruthless
0:42:07 > 0:42:12with themselves and everybody else.
0:42:12 > 0:42:14The history of the movement in Britain had a very troubled
0:42:14 > 0:42:17history, because it became divided between the moderates,
0:42:17 > 0:42:22with whom you associated yourself, you were secretary, and the militants.
0:42:22 > 0:42:23The militants.
0:42:23 > 0:42:28Can you tell me if in the years 1907 onwards, initially, of course,
0:42:28 > 0:42:30they all worked together, didn't they?
0:42:30 > 0:42:34Yes. We only split, you see,
0:42:34 > 0:42:40when they became destructive of property
0:42:40 > 0:42:43and violent with other people.
0:42:43 > 0:42:46I mean, as long as they presented they, themselves,
0:42:46 > 0:42:48we could stick together but
0:42:48 > 0:42:51we thought it was stupid
0:42:51 > 0:42:55to challenge men on the only ground
0:42:55 > 0:42:59in which it's absolutely obvious
0:42:59 > 0:43:01that we're inferior
0:43:01 > 0:43:05and that's in physical strength.
0:43:06 > 0:43:09Was he as tough as everyone said he was?
0:43:09 > 0:43:11He was very, very tough man indeed.
0:43:11 > 0:43:13And Errol went through a period,
0:43:13 > 0:43:15which we all go through, having a rather swollen head.
0:43:15 > 0:43:18He just made a big success with his first picture.
0:43:18 > 0:43:20And we were lined up, with 600 fellows,
0:43:20 > 0:43:22and I was one of the junior officers, and two officers,
0:43:22 > 0:43:26and Flynn was in front, and Flynn was taking it all a bit seriously,
0:43:26 > 0:43:29he let the reins go on his horse and he was sitting back
0:43:29 > 0:43:32getting the hat straight and getting everything touched up
0:43:32 > 0:43:33before the charge,
0:43:33 > 0:43:37and we had rubber lances, in case anybody poked anybody's eye out,
0:43:37 > 0:43:38with wobbly tips.
0:43:38 > 0:43:42So, one of these enormous fellows behind leant forward his lance
0:43:42 > 0:43:46and went up Errol Flynn's horse's behind, which went brrr,
0:43:46 > 0:43:49like this and Flynn went about 19 feet in the air.
0:43:49 > 0:43:52Now, if it had been me, I'd have got up and said, "Please don't."
0:43:52 > 0:43:53Would have got on my horse.
0:43:53 > 0:43:56But not Flynn, he said, "Which of you sons of bitches did that?"
0:43:56 > 0:43:57So, this huge orangutan said,
0:43:57 > 0:43:59"I did. You want to make anything of it?"
0:43:59 > 0:44:01So Flynn said, "I certainly do." And he pulled him off the horse
0:44:01 > 0:44:06and they fought for minutes, and he murdered him, absolutely massacred.
0:44:06 > 0:44:09And they adored Flynn after that. Thought he was great.
0:44:09 > 0:44:12The last time we really sat down and talked together on television
0:44:12 > 0:44:15was when you had just won, if you would remember,
0:44:15 > 0:44:17your Academy award for Separate Tables,
0:44:17 > 0:44:19which I thought was the most marvellous film.
0:44:19 > 0:44:22What did you feel like when they were giving out
0:44:22 > 0:44:24the names of the award winners?
0:44:24 > 0:44:27Well, it's pretty spooky because, you know, the nomination comes out,
0:44:27 > 0:44:30and you sit there with a television camera on each of the five nominees
0:44:30 > 0:44:32and you think, "Well, if it's not going to be me,
0:44:32 > 0:44:34"what sort of a face am I going to put on,
0:44:34 > 0:44:36"with that thing looking right at me?"
0:44:36 > 0:44:38So out came my name, a miracle, and I jumped up
0:44:38 > 0:44:43and ran down the thing before they change their mind, you know.
0:44:43 > 0:44:45Give it back, Niven.
0:44:45 > 0:44:49And fell, fell headlong up the steps, onto the stage,
0:44:49 > 0:44:51white tie, and everything.
0:44:51 > 0:44:55And I thought, I better explain this, people were clapping,
0:44:55 > 0:44:58and I grabbed the Oscar from Irene Dunne,
0:44:58 > 0:44:59who was giving it to me.
0:44:59 > 0:45:04And said, I think you should explain this rather peculiar entrance.
0:45:04 > 0:45:07And, what I meant to say, was that the reason I fell down was
0:45:07 > 0:45:10that I was so loaded with good luck charms that I was top-heavy.
0:45:10 > 0:45:14I made an idiot pause after the word loaded,
0:45:14 > 0:45:16and I became the first self-confessed
0:45:16 > 0:45:19drunk in the business. The reason I fell down was cos I was so loaded.
0:45:19 > 0:45:21They all roared with laughter
0:45:21 > 0:45:23and I never even bothered to get the rest out.
0:45:23 > 0:45:27Richard Burton, I read in the papers that a couple of years ago, or so,
0:45:27 > 0:45:30you had a drink problem, your career was somewhat slipping,
0:45:30 > 0:45:32but now, everything's going fine for you.
0:45:32 > 0:45:33Is that so? And why?
0:45:33 > 0:45:37Yes, well...
0:45:37 > 0:45:40once you have a drink problem, you always have one.
0:45:40 > 0:45:42Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic.
0:45:42 > 0:45:45But, and I'm quite sure whether I am or not.
0:45:45 > 0:45:49I read in the papers, too, that you said you were
0:45:49 > 0:45:52on three bottles of the hard stuff and one doctor said
0:45:52 > 0:45:54if you go on like this you've got two weeks to live.
0:45:54 > 0:45:56So, you must of been very bad.
0:45:56 > 0:45:59Oh, yes. Yes, but that would have been considered.
0:45:59 > 0:46:03I was into my third bottle a day, so a friend of mine told me.
0:46:03 > 0:46:04Being into my third bottle,
0:46:04 > 0:46:07I wasn't aware of the fact that I was into it.
0:46:07 > 0:46:10But, he told me so and I was somewhat surprised.
0:46:11 > 0:46:15And he said this same friend, he is actually here,
0:46:15 > 0:46:17said would you have a blood test?
0:46:17 > 0:46:21And they took a blood test, it was, of course, I was X.
0:46:21 > 0:46:23I was anonymous in the blood test.
0:46:23 > 0:46:26And they said this person, if he keeps on as he's going,
0:46:26 > 0:46:30because they have written an account of what my behaviour was.
0:46:30 > 0:46:33If he goes on as he is, will have, approximately,
0:46:33 > 0:46:35two weeks to live, which I found very intriguing.
0:46:35 > 0:46:37I was so sloshed when they told me, anyway.
0:46:37 > 0:46:39So, I said, "Well, that gives me three days to do..." You know,
0:46:39 > 0:46:44that kind of mock heroics, went on.
0:46:44 > 0:46:46But, I did put myself in hospital and,
0:46:46 > 0:46:48though I could have come out in a week,
0:46:48 > 0:46:49I enjoyed the hospital somewhat.
0:46:49 > 0:46:51Enjoyed is hardly the word,
0:46:51 > 0:46:54but I became so fascinated by the other people who were generally
0:46:54 > 0:46:59suffering from sclerosis of the liver, that I stayed in hospital,
0:46:59 > 0:47:03and I didn't have a thing to do, anyway, and became a sort of
0:47:03 > 0:47:05lay doctor, if there is such a thing,
0:47:05 > 0:47:08and went visiting these people, and it really was horrifying,
0:47:08 > 0:47:11and I suggest that anybody who does have a drinking problem,
0:47:11 > 0:47:13as they euphemistically put it,
0:47:13 > 0:47:15nowadays, who is in fact an alcoholic,
0:47:15 > 0:47:19goes to visit somebody who has terminal cirrhosis of the liver.
0:47:19 > 0:47:22It's an unbelievable sight.
0:47:22 > 0:47:24Do know what caused you to drink in the first place?
0:47:24 > 0:47:29Well, I'm a Welshman, and most Celts, Irishmen, Scots, Welsh,
0:47:29 > 0:47:32and the English, very quietly, too, are not far behind,
0:47:32 > 0:47:36I think we're all, I think it's a human frailty.
0:47:36 > 0:47:39You say, you're quoted as saying,
0:47:39 > 0:47:41acting is somehow shameful for a man to do.
0:47:41 > 0:47:44It isn't natural to put on make-up and wear costumes
0:47:44 > 0:47:48and say someone else's lines, so you drink to overcome the shame.
0:47:48 > 0:47:52Oh, no. That's a misquote, oh, at least, I might have said it,
0:47:52 > 0:47:55but I was probably on the fourth bottle that day when I said it.
0:47:55 > 0:47:59No, I think, no, that's no excuse for drinking, at all.
0:47:59 > 0:48:01No, I think that I was simply a heavy drinker,
0:48:01 > 0:48:04really enjoyed it, and went too far.
0:48:06 > 0:48:08I saw a piece, actually, this week, or last week,
0:48:08 > 0:48:11was one of the papers, with an interview with you, where you
0:48:11 > 0:48:15described yourselves, in quotes, as being frustrated Laurel and Hardy.
0:48:15 > 0:48:17- We don't describe ourselves. - Not frustrated.
0:48:17 > 0:48:20That's the quote that, that's what I wondered about,
0:48:20 > 0:48:22not Laurel and Hardy, but frustrated.
0:48:22 > 0:48:25No, I don't think either one of us is.
0:48:26 > 0:48:30We're making a movie now in which the relationship
0:48:30 > 0:48:35is somewhat close to the relationship of Laurel and Hardy,
0:48:35 > 0:48:39but we're certainly not frustrated.
0:48:39 > 0:48:41The reason I ask, because now, all the old films,
0:48:41 > 0:48:44the old two reels are being shown on BBC television,
0:48:44 > 0:48:47and they've got a tremendous impact on all the children, particularly.
0:48:47 > 0:48:50And I wonder if you're fans from way back.
0:48:50 > 0:48:52Oh, yeah. Fans from way back.
0:48:54 > 0:48:58This going to be one of those kinds of interviews, isn't it?
0:48:59 > 0:49:00One reads a lot about the two of you
0:49:00 > 0:49:04when you worked that there's improvisation goes on between you,
0:49:04 > 0:49:07how much do you improvise when you go in front of the cameras?
0:49:14 > 0:49:15Well...
0:49:20 > 0:49:22Not as much as people think.
0:49:22 > 0:49:25- But quite a bit.- Right.
0:49:28 > 0:49:30In what way?
0:49:32 > 0:49:33With ourselves.
0:49:34 > 0:49:37But, I mean, the two of you, obviously, can work together
0:49:37 > 0:49:40because you have a kind of rapport together.
0:49:40 > 0:49:43But isn't it frustrating to somebody who is involved in a scene with you
0:49:43 > 0:49:46who is not necessarily on the same wavelength?
0:49:46 > 0:49:47I mean, like me?
0:49:55 > 0:50:00To a lot of people, watching in England, they still
0:50:00 > 0:50:08think of you as associated with all the various terrorist activities
0:50:08 > 0:50:11and of the Palestine Liberation Organisation, and then they think of
0:50:11 > 0:50:17Black September, and Munich, and Lod airport, and all of those things.
0:50:18 > 0:50:22What would you say to people who really,
0:50:22 > 0:50:27feel that the Palestine fight means
0:50:27 > 0:50:31that sort of murder?
0:50:31 > 0:50:33What would you say to explain?
0:50:33 > 0:50:38It is... You know, I will give you a small example.
0:50:40 > 0:50:47Washington was a terrorist in your view.
0:50:47 > 0:50:51When he started his liberation war.
0:50:51 > 0:50:56You, the British, was looking to Washington as a terrorist.
0:50:56 > 0:51:00Yes? Because he was looking for the liberation of his nation.
0:51:02 > 0:51:04All those freedom fighter, fighters...
0:51:06 > 0:51:11..used to be called terrorists in the beginning.
0:51:11 > 0:51:13But, don't forget that in the United Nations,
0:51:13 > 0:51:17those who had been called as a terrorist are now...
0:51:19 > 0:51:21..statement, state.
0:51:21 > 0:51:24- Statesmen.- Statesmen. You know?
0:51:25 > 0:51:29But, also, you are only looking
0:51:29 > 0:51:34for the Palestinians as terrorists.
0:51:34 > 0:51:37Me, I am not. I am against
0:51:37 > 0:51:42any of this individual actions...
0:51:44 > 0:51:45..of terrorism.
0:51:46 > 0:51:49We in the PLO are against it.
0:51:49 > 0:51:53But, you have to look at it from the other points.
0:51:53 > 0:51:57That some persons who are,
0:51:57 > 0:52:00who are in the corner,
0:52:00 > 0:52:04from frustration and despair,
0:52:04 > 0:52:08they begin to think of it.
0:52:08 > 0:52:10But we are against it
0:52:10 > 0:52:12and, as a freedom fighter,
0:52:12 > 0:52:14as a real freedom fighter I'm against it.
0:52:14 > 0:52:19But, moving on from that, what things have you had to give up,
0:52:19 > 0:52:21what sacrifices have you had to make,
0:52:21 > 0:52:25what are the things that you couldn't do because of what you're doing?
0:52:25 > 0:52:27Do you think... Put it another way...
0:52:27 > 0:52:29It is a personal question.
0:52:29 > 0:52:33I don't like to speak about myself.
0:52:33 > 0:52:37Let us speak about my people, my cause.
0:52:39 > 0:52:44So, because, sacrifices of persons means nothing.
0:52:44 > 0:52:49What is important is the future of the people.
0:52:49 > 0:52:50Of my people.
0:52:50 > 0:52:54You are quoted, on one occasion, in fact, as saying,
0:52:54 > 0:52:57talking about not having a wife and children,
0:52:57 > 0:53:00as saying, "Palestine is my wife."
0:53:00 > 0:53:01Did you say that?
0:53:03 > 0:53:05No, Palestine is my wife, but definitely,
0:53:05 > 0:53:08I would like to...
0:53:08 > 0:53:11I would like that my people
0:53:11 > 0:53:17will not be kicked out from their homelands,
0:53:17 > 0:53:21so, I would like not to have...
0:53:21 > 0:53:25these circumstances,
0:53:25 > 0:53:27which oblige me
0:53:27 > 0:53:29to go on this struggle.
0:53:29 > 0:53:34I would like to live a normal life, as others, as you are living.
0:53:35 > 0:53:41But I can't live this normal life because...
0:53:42 > 0:53:48..my people is living in this very, very hard circumstances
0:53:48 > 0:53:53and in this fears, this tragedy.
0:53:53 > 0:53:56And you need all your time, you mean, for that?
0:53:57 > 0:54:01At least, you know that I am completely busy.
0:54:04 > 0:54:08Do you think that, on the whole, the fanatics in the world are more
0:54:08 > 0:54:11useful, or more dangerous than the sceptics?
0:54:11 > 0:54:15Fanaticism is the danger of the world.
0:54:15 > 0:54:19It or always has been, and has done untold harm.
0:54:19 > 0:54:23No, I think that fanaticism is the gravest danger there is.
0:54:23 > 0:54:26I might almost say that I was fanatically against fanaticism.
0:54:26 > 0:54:28But, then, are you not fanatical, also,
0:54:28 > 0:54:30against some other things, you see?
0:54:30 > 0:54:33Now, your current campaign, for instance,
0:54:33 > 0:54:35in favour of nuclear disarmament,
0:54:35 > 0:54:39which you encourage your supporters to undertake some of the extreme
0:54:39 > 0:54:42demonstrations that they are undertaking.
0:54:42 > 0:54:43Isn't that fanaticism?
0:54:43 > 0:54:45I don't think that's fanaticism, no.
0:54:45 > 0:54:48I mean, some of them may be fanatical,
0:54:48 > 0:54:53but I do give them support but not for fanatical reasons.
0:54:53 > 0:54:58I support them because everything sane and sensible
0:54:58 > 0:55:04and quiet that we do is absolutely ignored by the press.
0:55:04 > 0:55:07And, the only way we can get into the press is to do something
0:55:07 > 0:55:09that looks fanatical.
0:55:09 > 0:55:14I mean, the worst possibility is that human life may be extinguished,
0:55:14 > 0:55:17and it is a very real possibility.
0:55:17 > 0:55:20Very real. And that is the worst.
0:55:22 > 0:55:26But, assuming that doesn't happen,
0:55:26 > 0:55:30I can't bear the thought of many
0:55:30 > 0:55:35hundreds of millions of people dying in agony,
0:55:35 > 0:55:38only, and solely, because
0:55:38 > 0:55:43the rulers of the world are stupid and wicked, and I can't bear it.
0:55:43 > 0:55:46Of the sort of conventional self-indulgences,
0:55:46 > 0:55:48or vices like drink and tobacco, and so on,
0:55:48 > 0:55:49which is your favourite one?
0:55:49 > 0:55:52Oh, tobacco. I smoke a pipe all day long,
0:55:52 > 0:55:55except when I'm eating or sleeping.
0:55:55 > 0:55:57Hasn't that shortened your life?
0:55:57 > 0:56:00Well, they used to say it would when I first took to it,
0:56:00 > 0:56:03but I took to it some 70 years ago,
0:56:03 > 0:56:06so, it doesn't seem to have had a very great effect so far.
0:56:08 > 0:56:13In fact, you know, on one occasion, it saved my life.
0:56:15 > 0:56:20I was in an aeroplane and a man was getting a seat for me and I said,
0:56:20 > 0:56:23"Get me a seat in the smoking part,
0:56:23 > 0:56:26"because if I can't smoke, I should die."
0:56:26 > 0:56:30And, sure enough, there was an accident, a bad accident,
0:56:30 > 0:56:31and all the people
0:56:31 > 0:56:35in the non-smoking part of the plane were drowned.
0:56:35 > 0:56:39The people in the smoking part jumped into the Norwegian fjords
0:56:39 > 0:56:42where we landed and were saved,
0:56:42 > 0:56:44so that I owe my life to smoking.
0:56:44 > 0:56:47Suppose, Lord Russell, this film were to be
0:56:47 > 0:56:51looked at by our descendants, like a dead Sea scroll in 1,000 years time,
0:56:51 > 0:56:55what would you think it's worth telling that generation
0:56:55 > 0:57:00about the life you've lived and the lessons you've learned from it.
0:57:00 > 0:57:07I should like to say two things, one intellectual, and one moral.
0:57:07 > 0:57:12The intellectual thing I should want to say to them is this -
0:57:12 > 0:57:18when you are studying any matter, or considering any philosophy...
0:57:20 > 0:57:24..ask yourself only what are the facts
0:57:24 > 0:57:28and what is the truth that the facts bear out.
0:57:28 > 0:57:33Never let yourself be diverted either by what you wish to believe
0:57:33 > 0:57:37or by what you think would have beneficent social effects
0:57:37 > 0:57:39if it were believed.
0:57:39 > 0:57:46But look only and solely at what are the facts.
0:57:46 > 0:57:49That is the intellectual thing that I should wish to say.
0:57:49 > 0:57:54The moral thing I should wish to say to them is very simple -
0:57:54 > 0:58:00I should say, love is wise, hatred is foolish.
0:58:01 > 0:58:07In this world, which is getting more and more closely interconnected...
0:58:08 > 0:58:12..we have to learn to tolerate each other.
0:58:12 > 0:58:16We have to learn to put up with the fact that some people say
0:58:16 > 0:58:19things that we don't like.
0:58:19 > 0:58:25We can only live together in that way.
0:58:25 > 0:58:27But if we are to live together
0:58:27 > 0:58:31and not die together we must learn a kind of charity
0:58:31 > 0:58:38and a kind of tolerance, which is absolutely vital to the continuation
0:58:38 > 0:58:40of human life on this planet.
0:59:03 > 0:59:07Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd