0:00:02 > 0:00:04Telly, that magic box in the corner.
0:00:04 > 0:00:07It gives us access to a million different worlds,
0:00:07 > 0:00:10all from the comfort of our sofa.
0:00:10 > 0:00:13In this series, I'm going to journey through the fantastic world
0:00:13 > 0:00:16of TV with some of our favourite celebrities.
0:00:16 > 0:00:20They've chosen the precious TV moments that shed light...
0:00:20 > 0:00:22- Proper. - She seems like a nice girl, though.
0:00:22 > 0:00:24Look at that!
0:00:24 > 0:00:26..on the stories of their lives.
0:00:26 > 0:00:28# Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew
0:00:28 > 0:00:29# Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub! #
0:00:29 > 0:00:31Some are funny...
0:00:31 > 0:00:33- Could you do the chanting? - I could do...
0:00:33 > 0:00:34Nyow, nyow, nyow...
0:00:34 > 0:00:36- Some...- Amazing!
0:00:36 > 0:00:38- ..are surprising. - SHE LAUGHS
0:00:38 > 0:00:39I was mortified.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42Some are inspiring.
0:00:42 > 0:00:44I am not a number, I am a free man!
0:00:44 > 0:00:46And many...
0:00:46 > 0:00:48Did George Orwell get his predictions right?
0:00:48 > 0:00:49It's all so dramatic!
0:00:49 > 0:00:51..are deeply moving.
0:00:51 > 0:00:52Oh, no!
0:00:52 > 0:00:54'And heads down the beach towards almost certain death.'
0:00:54 > 0:00:56All of us, weeping!
0:00:56 > 0:01:00So come watch with us as we hand-pick the vintage telly that
0:01:00 > 0:01:05helped turn our much-loved stars into the people they are today.
0:01:05 > 0:01:07Welcome to The TV That Made Me.
0:01:15 > 0:01:16My guest today has done it all.
0:01:16 > 0:01:19She is a novelist, documentary maker,
0:01:19 > 0:01:22agony aunt and a former government minister.
0:01:22 > 0:01:25In fact, she has pulled off the impossible.
0:01:25 > 0:01:27Because the truly awesome
0:01:27 > 0:01:31Ann Widdecombe is a politician we are actually very fond of.
0:01:32 > 0:01:34The TV that made her includes...
0:01:34 > 0:01:39Power dressing and bed hopping in the boat-building saga Howards' Way.
0:01:39 > 0:01:42Why? Mark's not coming back till later.
0:01:42 > 0:01:44You mean he SAID he wasn't coming back till later.
0:01:44 > 0:01:48The mother of all raucous rock and roll shows.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51# Old King Cole was a merry old soul
0:01:51 > 0:01:53# And a merry old soul was he. #
0:01:53 > 0:01:57And the crime busting adventures of a sleuth...
0:01:57 > 0:01:58in a surplice.
0:01:58 > 0:02:01- Has anything been taken? - No, nothing has been taken.
0:02:01 > 0:02:03How can you be so sure?!
0:02:03 > 0:02:07It can only be the one and only, the legend - Ann Widdecombe -
0:02:07 > 0:02:09- with us today.- Hello. - Are you happy to be here?
0:02:09 > 0:02:11I am very happy to be here.
0:02:11 > 0:02:13- We are happy you are here.- Good.
0:02:13 > 0:02:15Because you are formidable.
0:02:15 > 0:02:18- I must say, I am a bit nervous to be in your company.- Yes, you should be.
0:02:18 > 0:02:20HE LAUGHS
0:02:20 > 0:02:24So, was the young Widdecombe too busy to watch TV?
0:02:24 > 0:02:28Well, interestingly, I didn't see any television until I was nine
0:02:28 > 0:02:30because my father was with the Admiralty
0:02:30 > 0:02:33and so we used to move around every two to three years.
0:02:33 > 0:02:35When I was five, we moved to Singapore.
0:02:35 > 0:02:38And when I came back from Singapore,
0:02:38 > 0:02:40that was the first time I saw television.
0:02:40 > 0:02:43And I was nearly nine.
0:02:43 > 0:02:48So what did you think of TV when you first saw it at the age of nine?
0:02:48 > 0:02:50I was very excited by it because, of course, the only thing
0:02:50 > 0:02:53I had seen that was remotely similar was the cinema, you know,
0:02:53 > 0:02:55film on the big screen.
0:02:55 > 0:02:59And so it seemed to me that here I had my own little cinema almost,
0:02:59 > 0:03:01in this little box in the corner.
0:03:01 > 0:03:03I was vastly excited by it.
0:03:03 > 0:03:05- Yeah? We want to go back to the beginning now...- Right.
0:03:05 > 0:03:07..and just see a little bit more,
0:03:07 > 0:03:11and find out a little bit more about the young Ann Widdecombe.
0:03:12 > 0:03:17Ann Widdecombe is the daughter of Rita and James Widdecombe, MBE.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22And sister of devoted older brother Malcolm,
0:03:22 > 0:03:26who would later study theology and become a priest.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29She enjoyed a well-travelled childhood,
0:03:29 > 0:03:33as Dad's took the family as far afield as Singapore.
0:03:35 > 0:03:37But home was always England.
0:03:37 > 0:03:41And in 1956, the family returned, living first
0:03:41 > 0:03:45in rural Sussex before finally settling in Bath,
0:03:45 > 0:03:49where Ann attended a strict convent school.
0:03:49 > 0:03:52Ann, what was life like back then?
0:03:52 > 0:03:55The young Ann, at home, your lounge?
0:03:55 > 0:03:59It was a very safe, very secure and totally free life.
0:03:59 > 0:04:01Children could go off, and they did.
0:04:01 > 0:04:03They could go off all day, playing.
0:04:03 > 0:04:07We had no mobile phones. We had no means of contacting our parents.
0:04:07 > 0:04:10- Parents never worried. It was a very, very safe life.- Mm-hm.
0:04:10 > 0:04:12And I used to go off with friends.
0:04:12 > 0:04:15We used to go into the woods and have Enid Blyton-style
0:04:15 > 0:04:17adventures. In our imagination, course.
0:04:17 > 0:04:20And we used to take picnics.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23Providing we came back at the time specified by our parents,
0:04:23 > 0:04:25which was likely to be six o'clock at night, nobody worried.
0:04:25 > 0:04:27Nobody wondered where we were.
0:04:32 > 0:04:35Was there anything weekly that you would religiously watch?
0:04:35 > 0:04:37There was the weekly play.
0:04:37 > 0:04:40And then on a Saturday, of course, there was Six-Five Special.
0:04:40 > 0:04:43So The Six-Five Special, that was something very special for you?
0:04:43 > 0:04:45- Believe it or not, at 6.05.- Yeah.
0:04:45 > 0:04:47Well, why was it called that?
0:04:47 > 0:04:49It would start at five past six.
0:04:49 > 0:04:52And it was the first, I suppose,
0:04:52 > 0:04:55of the pop programmes that went on to Juke Box Jury and things like that.
0:04:55 > 0:04:58Would you like to see a little moment from The Six-Five Special?
0:04:58 > 0:05:01- With Pete Murray, yes, I would.- Yeah.- Yeah.
0:05:01 > 0:05:03This, ladies and gentlemen,
0:05:03 > 0:05:05is The Six-Five Special.
0:05:05 > 0:05:08# The Six-Five Special Steaming down the line
0:05:08 > 0:05:09- # Down the line... # - Go on, Ann.
0:05:09 > 0:05:12# The Six-Five Special Right on time... #
0:05:12 > 0:05:14# Everybody do the rock!
0:05:14 > 0:05:18The Six-Five Special isn't referring to a train full of cool musicians
0:05:18 > 0:05:21steaming into our living rooms.
0:05:21 > 0:05:23It refers to the start time.
0:05:23 > 0:05:27In 1957, it was the very first show to fill the hour-long gap
0:05:27 > 0:05:31the BBC placed in the schedule between six and seven
0:05:31 > 0:05:33so parents could get their kids to bed.
0:05:33 > 0:05:37It was also Britain's first live music show,
0:05:37 > 0:05:41pointing the way to the '60s three years before they happen.
0:05:41 > 0:05:42# Everybody do the roll. #
0:05:42 > 0:05:46- So this was your Top of the Pops, really.- Yes.
0:05:46 > 0:05:49In those days, indeed, yes.
0:05:49 > 0:05:51I can remember skiffle was a very big thing.
0:05:51 > 0:05:52You know, with washboards.
0:05:52 > 0:05:55So, in those days, you wouldn't get up and have a little jig?
0:05:55 > 0:05:56Oh, no, absolutely not. No.
0:05:56 > 0:05:59- No. It wouldn't appeal. Just wouldn't appeal.- No?- No.
0:05:59 > 0:06:01So it was much later on, obviously...
0:06:01 > 0:06:05Yeah, I think we were in the '60s with the twist before I found much
0:06:05 > 0:06:07appeal in dancing.
0:06:07 > 0:06:09In any way, what would it take
0:06:09 > 0:06:12for you to dance now?
0:06:12 > 0:06:16- Oh, pretty well nothing.- Really?
0:06:16 > 0:06:18- I couldn't get you up to have a little jig?- No.
0:06:18 > 0:06:20- You absolutely couldn't. Good.- Fair enough.
0:06:20 > 0:06:23That's clear, is it? Good.
0:06:23 > 0:06:26- Well, I tried.- You've tried. - I tried, you know.
0:06:26 > 0:06:29- The Six-Five Special...- Yes.
0:06:29 > 0:06:35- ..had many, many guest appearances from many stars.- Yes, it did.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37We wanted to put you to the test now and see
0:06:37 > 0:06:39- if you could name some of the people...- I wouldn't be able to.
0:06:39 > 0:06:43- Well, who knows? You don't know.- I know.- Have a look at these pictures.
0:06:43 > 0:06:49- Who do we think that is?- I think that is either a very young...
0:06:49 > 0:06:52- Dusty Springfield. - Mm-hm, possibly. Or?
0:06:52 > 0:06:55- Or a very young...- Go on.
0:06:57 > 0:07:00Well, it's not Kathy Kirby. I don't know, no.
0:07:00 > 0:07:02You'll kick yourself.
0:07:02 > 0:07:03- Go on, tell me.- Petula Clark.
0:07:04 > 0:07:06- Strewth! Is that Pet Clark?- Yeah.
0:07:06 > 0:07:08Let's try the next one now.
0:07:08 > 0:07:11Have a look at this one, tell me who you think this might be.
0:07:11 > 0:07:13You'll get this.
0:07:15 > 0:07:17No idea.
0:07:17 > 0:07:18Tommy Steele.
0:07:19 > 0:07:21Almost before my time, yep.
0:07:21 > 0:07:24Oh, that has got to be Helen Shapiro.
0:07:24 > 0:07:27You will be absolutely amazed when I tell you that is a very,
0:07:27 > 0:07:29- very young Shirley Bassey.- Oh, no!
0:07:29 > 0:07:31It is, isn't it? Isn't it amazing?
0:07:31 > 0:07:33Good heavens! I wouldn't have got that.
0:07:33 > 0:07:35I would've got that as Helen Shapiro. Yeah, right. OK.
0:07:35 > 0:07:37- Well, there you are, you see? I got them all wrong.- Well,
0:07:37 > 0:07:39- you proved a point.- Yes, right.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42# Everybody do the rock and roll. #
0:07:42 > 0:07:44With ground-breaking live performances,
0:07:44 > 0:07:48The Six-Five Special ushered in a new era of pop shows that kids
0:07:48 > 0:07:53thought were great but some adults thought would end the world.
0:07:53 > 0:07:55ITV jumped on the pop bandwagon
0:07:55 > 0:07:58in 1958 with Oh Boy!
0:07:58 > 0:07:59It made the careers of bands
0:07:59 > 0:08:00like The Drifters
0:08:00 > 0:08:02and featured acts including
0:08:02 > 0:08:05Shirley Bassey and Lonnie Donegan.
0:08:05 > 0:08:07In 1963, Friday nights saw
0:08:07 > 0:08:09the start of a brand-new pop series
0:08:09 > 0:08:10on ITV.
0:08:10 > 0:08:12Early shows were presented
0:08:12 > 0:08:14by the brilliant Dusty Springfield,
0:08:14 > 0:08:16who made sure the weekend started
0:08:16 > 0:08:18with Ready Steady Go!
0:08:19 > 0:08:23Not to be outdone, the BBC launched a new music show
0:08:23 > 0:08:26live from a converted church in Manchester -
0:08:26 > 0:08:28Top of the Pops.
0:08:28 > 0:08:30Among the acts on the first episode
0:08:30 > 0:08:32were The Dave Clark Five
0:08:32 > 0:08:34performing Glad All Over,
0:08:34 > 0:08:36which is exactly how we all felt.
0:08:41 > 0:08:43Now, you were at boarding school,
0:08:43 > 0:08:45- in Bath.- Yes, I went to boarding school.
0:08:45 > 0:08:47What was it you used to watch there?
0:08:47 > 0:08:52Well, there was a great innovation when we were in the third form.
0:08:52 > 0:08:55We were given a common room with a television in it.
0:08:55 > 0:08:57HE GASPS
0:08:57 > 0:09:01And we were allowed to watch a very restricted amount of television.
0:09:01 > 0:09:02There were two things that we loved.
0:09:02 > 0:09:06One was one of the very earliest soaps. It was called Compact.
0:09:06 > 0:09:09It was the story of a magazine and the staff who worked on it.
0:09:09 > 0:09:12The other was Dr Kildare.
0:09:12 > 0:09:15And we all used to come down
0:09:15 > 0:09:18from the dormitories to watch Dr Kildare.
0:09:18 > 0:09:21So we had to go up to the dormitories and get into our pyjamas
0:09:21 > 0:09:22and dressing gowns.
0:09:22 > 0:09:24And then we were allowed down to watch Dr Kildare
0:09:24 > 0:09:27so that we could go straight to bed afterwards.
0:09:27 > 0:09:30We all adored Dr Kildare.
0:09:30 > 0:09:32- Shall we have a little look?- Yeah.
0:09:32 > 0:09:35See if it is still... See if you still feel that way.
0:09:35 > 0:09:37- Hi.- Huh?
0:09:37 > 0:09:38Oh, hi, Lana.
0:09:38 > 0:09:42I hear it's hand flapping time, daddy.
0:09:42 > 0:09:43Yeah, uh...
0:09:45 > 0:09:46Come on in here.
0:09:47 > 0:09:48- Very handsome man.- Hm.
0:09:50 > 0:09:54Dr Kildare was one of the first big American drama
0:09:54 > 0:09:56series to play on the BBC.
0:09:56 > 0:09:59With cinema standard production values,
0:09:59 > 0:10:01universal storylines
0:10:01 > 0:10:04and an impossibly handsome star
0:10:04 > 0:10:06in Richard Chamberlain,
0:10:06 > 0:10:08British audiences immediately
0:10:08 > 0:10:11took to this foreign import.
0:10:11 > 0:10:12No...
0:10:12 > 0:10:14- Lana, if there were any other way... - (Please don't tell me.)
0:10:14 > 0:10:17- Lana, you have got to listen to me. - I don't want to hear it!- Lana!
0:10:17 > 0:10:19It's audience figures
0:10:19 > 0:10:21soared to 15 million,
0:10:21 > 0:10:23and it kept Chamber fans'
0:10:23 > 0:10:25hearts beating until 1966.
0:10:31 > 0:10:35- I'm surprised you could sleep at the end of one of those.- Yes.
0:10:35 > 0:10:38I don't remember that particular episode, but, as I say,
0:10:38 > 0:10:41we used to watch Dr Kildare every single week.
0:10:41 > 0:10:45I mean, it was very dramatic. Is that typical?
0:10:45 > 0:10:47Oh, it was always very dramatic.
0:10:47 > 0:10:52There was always some very big central drama to every episode.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55So either somebody was dying or he was in a moral dilemma as to
0:10:55 > 0:10:57whether he should do X or Y.
0:10:57 > 0:11:00Or he had made some big mistake. Whatever it was.
0:11:00 > 0:11:03Every week, there was some crucial drama.
0:11:03 > 0:11:07Mm-hm. Was he a renegade? Bending the rules, do you think?
0:11:07 > 0:11:09Um...
0:11:09 > 0:11:11Actually, very often he wasn't.
0:11:11 > 0:11:14And I remember there was one episode,
0:11:14 > 0:11:16quite a long way into Dr Kildare,
0:11:16 > 0:11:20so I think I was much older when I saw it,
0:11:20 > 0:11:22but there was one episode where he had to make a choice
0:11:22 > 0:11:25that if he gave evidence in a particular way,
0:11:25 > 0:11:28it was going to deny a child compensation.
0:11:28 > 0:11:31But if he told the absolute,
0:11:31 > 0:11:33rigid truth,
0:11:33 > 0:11:36he would have to do that.
0:11:36 > 0:11:39So it was an interesting dilemma.
0:11:39 > 0:11:42- Did it make you want to become a doctor?- No.
0:11:42 > 0:11:45I was useless at science. I really was.
0:11:45 > 0:11:48I was always good at classics - Latin and Greek. I was good at English.
0:11:48 > 0:11:50I was good at history.
0:11:50 > 0:11:56But I was useless, useless, useless at maths and science.
0:11:56 > 0:11:58And if I had said I wanted to be a doctor,
0:11:58 > 0:12:00the nuns would still be laughing now.
0:12:00 > 0:12:02You expect the two men to comfort each other?
0:12:02 > 0:12:05Dr Kildare proved that there is no moral dilemma too big
0:12:05 > 0:12:07to be faced by TV medics.
0:12:07 > 0:12:12And actors love to play them as much as we love to watch them.
0:12:13 > 0:12:17The BBC's home-grown answer to Kildare came in 1962
0:12:17 > 0:12:19in the form of Bill Simpson's
0:12:19 > 0:12:22Dr Finlay and his casebook.
0:12:22 > 0:12:24He faced weekly dramas
0:12:24 > 0:12:26in the fictional Scottish town
0:12:26 > 0:12:27of Tannochbrae.
0:12:28 > 0:12:30The homeliness of Dr Finlay
0:12:30 > 0:12:31was left far behind
0:12:31 > 0:12:33when the nurses of Angels
0:12:33 > 0:12:36appeared on our screens in 1975.
0:12:36 > 0:12:39Fiona Fullerton and her team dealt
0:12:39 > 0:12:40with hard-hitting dramas
0:12:40 > 0:12:42in and out of hospital.
0:12:44 > 0:12:46In 1986, a medical series
0:12:46 > 0:12:48came along that proved
0:12:48 > 0:12:50the possibilities of a drama set
0:12:50 > 0:12:53in a medical community are endless.
0:12:53 > 0:12:55From the early days of Charlie Fairhead
0:12:55 > 0:12:57and Megan Roche to today's
0:12:57 > 0:13:00medical team led by Connie Beauchamp,
0:13:00 > 0:13:02Casualty is the longest running
0:13:02 > 0:13:05emergency medical drama in the world.
0:13:06 > 0:13:08And after 29 years,
0:13:08 > 0:13:10Derek Thompson's Charlie Fairhead
0:13:10 > 0:13:12is still going strong.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18What was boarding school like in the '60s?
0:13:18 > 0:13:20Were you a fan of it? Do you approve of it?
0:13:20 > 0:13:24The one I went to was very strict, even by the standards of the age.
0:13:24 > 0:13:27And so most of the other boarders -
0:13:27 > 0:13:28not all of them but most of them -
0:13:28 > 0:13:30were Forces.
0:13:30 > 0:13:33And it was an age...
0:13:33 > 0:13:36I think this would shock people to realise,
0:13:36 > 0:13:38but the girls in my dormitory whose
0:13:38 > 0:13:42parents were RAF used to see them
0:13:42 > 0:13:45once a year if they were posted abroad.
0:13:45 > 0:13:49- They used to be...- Were you more fortunate than that?- I was.
0:13:49 > 0:13:52I was with my parents throughout when we were on foreign postings.
0:13:52 > 0:13:54But my brother wasn't so fortunate.
0:13:54 > 0:13:56And indeed, it was worse in his time.
0:13:56 > 0:13:59He remained behind while we were in Singapore.
0:13:59 > 0:14:02But they didn't even allow them out once a year then.
0:14:02 > 0:14:04- How long did you not see your brother for?- Three years.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07It was a three-year tour. So... And that was standard.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10- And was your brother much older than you?- He was ten years older than me.
0:14:10 > 0:14:12We were pre-war and post-war,
0:14:12 > 0:14:15or as he always says - quality and utility.
0:14:15 > 0:14:17HE LAUGHS
0:14:22 > 0:14:24Now, your next choice is Cadfael.
0:14:24 > 0:14:26- Yes.- Can you tell us a little bit about that?
0:14:26 > 0:14:29Yes. Cadfael is a detective monk
0:14:29 > 0:14:31in medieval times.
0:14:31 > 0:14:36So a great deal of the action is actually set in the monastery,
0:14:36 > 0:14:39but he is investigating crimes - murders of course -
0:14:39 > 0:14:42from the perspective of somebody
0:14:42 > 0:14:45who didn't have today's fingerprints
0:14:45 > 0:14:47and DNA and all the rest of it.
0:14:47 > 0:14:51What he did have was a great knowledge of herbs.
0:14:51 > 0:14:52He was a herbalist.
0:14:52 > 0:14:56And much of his detective work was done through his herbalism.
0:14:56 > 0:15:01So it is a wonderful story. I love Derek Jacobi as an actor.
0:15:01 > 0:15:03He is one of my favourite actors.
0:15:03 > 0:15:07And he really brings Cadfael to life.
0:15:07 > 0:15:09Well, let's have a little look at this, then.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12Mr Jacobi in Cadfael.
0:15:12 > 0:15:13He is superb.
0:15:13 > 0:15:16Brother Cadfael, Uncle died without absolution.
0:15:16 > 0:15:19So do many. You mustn't let it fret you, child.
0:15:19 > 0:15:21Penitence is in the heart.
0:15:21 > 0:15:23Brother Cadfael first appeared in the medieval murder mystery
0:15:23 > 0:15:27by author Ellis Peters in 1977.
0:15:27 > 0:15:29He is a Benedictine monk,
0:15:29 > 0:15:33but he's also a bit of a dark horse. As well as being a herbalist,
0:15:33 > 0:15:36he has also been a soldier and a sailor.
0:15:36 > 0:15:38It is this worldly knowingness
0:15:38 > 0:15:40that Jacobi captures so perfectly.
0:15:42 > 0:15:44It was a superb series. I have got the box set.
0:15:44 > 0:15:47I have to give it a few years in between viewing,
0:15:47 > 0:15:49because otherwise I remember too much who did it.
0:15:49 > 0:15:53But there is always some new thing
0:15:53 > 0:15:56that I spot whenever I watch Cadfael.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58Now, how many times have you watched it, then?
0:15:58 > 0:16:02- Your box set.- My box set, I would think about three.- Really?
0:16:02 > 0:16:05- Well, has anything been taken? - No, nothing has been taken.
0:16:05 > 0:16:07How can you be so sure?!
0:16:07 > 0:16:11Sir Derek Jacobi is the very definition of a class act.
0:16:11 > 0:16:14And he shines in roles that need both brains
0:16:14 > 0:16:17and a proper copper-bottomed pedigree.
0:16:19 > 0:16:21He is, of course, the emperor
0:16:21 > 0:16:22Claudius in the now legendary
0:16:22 > 0:16:25adaptation of I, Claudius
0:16:25 > 0:16:27in the 1970s.
0:16:27 > 0:16:29He regaled us with King Richard II
0:16:29 > 0:16:30in 1978,
0:16:30 > 0:16:32before giving us his Hamlet,
0:16:32 > 0:16:34Prince of Denmark, in 1980,
0:16:34 > 0:16:37both in the BBC's equally legendary
0:16:37 > 0:16:40television Shakespeare series.
0:16:40 > 0:16:42In 2007, came Dr Who,
0:16:42 > 0:16:44where he finally revealed his true
0:16:44 > 0:16:47identity as, of course, The Master.
0:16:47 > 0:16:51But even after all that, for many of us, he'll always be...Cadfael.
0:16:53 > 0:16:55A common thief?!
0:16:57 > 0:16:59Who steals nothing?
0:16:59 > 0:17:02Your sense of justice, I think, comes through.
0:17:02 > 0:17:07A lot of programmes in those days were about moral dilemmas, yeah.
0:17:07 > 0:17:09Do you miss that?
0:17:09 > 0:17:11Um, yes. I think, in a way, I do.
0:17:11 > 0:17:14I think modern television is essentially trivial.
0:17:14 > 0:17:18Some of the very big dilemmas that face humanity,
0:17:18 > 0:17:19they don't get a look in.
0:17:19 > 0:17:20So, when you were younger,
0:17:20 > 0:17:24was it always a career in politics or did you fancy other things?
0:17:24 > 0:17:29I think when I was 11, Yuri Gagarin went into space.
0:17:29 > 0:17:32And I think for a while every other child wanted to be an astronaut.
0:17:32 > 0:17:36And I was inspired for some while to be a missionary,
0:17:36 > 0:17:38because you used to get the heroic missionary tales.
0:17:38 > 0:17:43And then, after that, I think an ornithologist because there was
0:17:43 > 0:17:45somebody in Enid Blyton's books who wanted to be an ornithologist.
0:17:45 > 0:17:49And then, as I settled down into reality, for many, many years,
0:17:49 > 0:17:52- I wanted to be a teacher.- And so, eventually, you got into politics.
0:17:52 > 0:17:57Eventually, I both aspired to and became a politician, yes. Eventually.
0:18:02 > 0:18:05Right, well, we're moving on now
0:18:05 > 0:18:07to something that is very different,
0:18:07 > 0:18:12with a different standard, and this is one of your guilty pleasures.
0:18:12 > 0:18:17- Right.- And it is a programme called Howards' Way.- Oh, yes.
0:18:17 > 0:18:22- Now, Howards' Way... We must now be talking '80s or '90s.- Yeah.
0:18:22 > 0:18:26And I only saw it... Cos I didn't have a television.
0:18:26 > 0:18:29From the moment that I left home until the moment
0:18:29 > 0:18:32that my mother came to live with me after my father's death...
0:18:32 > 0:18:34So we're talking from probably the '70s to the '90s?
0:18:34 > 0:18:36We are talking from the mid-'70s
0:18:36 > 0:18:38right through...
0:18:38 > 0:18:41And my mother came to live with me in 1999.
0:18:41 > 0:18:43- I did not have a television in the house.- Wow.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47- Did you miss it?- No, not at all. - Not at all?
0:18:47 > 0:18:49The only time I saw television
0:18:49 > 0:18:52was when I went home at weekends.
0:18:52 > 0:18:54Or on visits.
0:18:54 > 0:18:58And Howards' Way was a great parental favourite.
0:18:58 > 0:19:01When I was at home, we all watched this programme.
0:19:01 > 0:19:03And I quite enjoyed Howards' Way.
0:19:03 > 0:19:05But of course, I wasn't going home every weekend,
0:19:05 > 0:19:08so I would miss sort of vast tranches of it.
0:19:08 > 0:19:12And not very long ago, it came out as a box set.
0:19:12 > 0:19:14And I thought, "I'll see the whole thing through,"
0:19:14 > 0:19:16which of course, I had never done.
0:19:16 > 0:19:19And so I got Howards' way, and I watched it.
0:19:19 > 0:19:22And I managed to fill in all the bits I hadn't seen.
0:19:22 > 0:19:24But it was a great favourite of my father's.
0:19:24 > 0:19:28Of course, ships, boats, you know, the things he loved.
0:19:28 > 0:19:31And it was a huge favourite of his.
0:19:31 > 0:19:33And so we used to watch it.
0:19:33 > 0:19:35And it was certainly must-see TV.
0:19:35 > 0:19:36A bit raunchy?
0:19:36 > 0:19:38Um...
0:19:38 > 0:19:40When I saw it on the box set, I thought,
0:19:40 > 0:19:42"Oh, I don't remember those bits."
0:19:42 > 0:19:47But the bits I saw were largely sailing and that sort of stuff.
0:19:47 > 0:19:50But, yes, there was a lot of THAT in it. Yep.
0:19:50 > 0:19:54Well, um, hopefully, there is not a lot of THAT
0:19:54 > 0:19:56in this little moment from Howards' Way.
0:19:56 > 0:19:58Will we be partners?
0:19:58 > 0:19:59Well, maybe...
0:19:59 > 0:20:02I don't want a partner.
0:20:02 > 0:20:03Maybe you got one.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06- Since when?- Since I first saw you.
0:20:11 > 0:20:12And they're kissing.
0:20:12 > 0:20:14Well, that's all right.
0:20:14 > 0:20:16- People do.- Hm...
0:20:17 > 0:20:19And people speak to each other quietly.
0:20:20 > 0:20:23You know, there is none of this awful confrontational shouting that
0:20:23 > 0:20:25you get in modern drama.
0:20:25 > 0:20:28And you can hear what they say, the diction is good.
0:20:28 > 0:20:31So they are speaking quietly and they have good diction.
0:20:31 > 0:20:34- Oh, how do I wish that were universal today!- Yes.
0:20:35 > 0:20:37Howards' Way launched in 1985
0:20:37 > 0:20:40and was seen as the BBC's answer
0:20:40 > 0:20:42to Dynasty or Dallas.
0:20:42 > 0:20:44It may not have been as glossy,
0:20:44 > 0:20:46but it did have characters who loved
0:20:46 > 0:20:49money, schemed and slept around.
0:20:50 > 0:20:52They just did it very near to,
0:20:52 > 0:20:54or actually on,
0:20:54 > 0:20:56not very big boats.
0:20:56 > 0:21:02Howards' Way was on, I believe, when you first became a politician.
0:21:02 > 0:21:03Was it a bit of light relief?
0:21:03 > 0:21:07I think it almost certainly was round about that time, yes.
0:21:07 > 0:21:09I imagine it was light relief.
0:21:09 > 0:21:12I just remember it as when I went home,
0:21:12 > 0:21:14when I visited my parents.
0:21:15 > 0:21:19Which, once I became a politician, I did less and less often.
0:21:19 > 0:21:24So maybe that is why major incidents in the series passed me by.
0:21:24 > 0:21:26I think I'd better go.
0:21:26 > 0:21:28Why? Mark is not coming back till later.
0:21:28 > 0:21:33- I'm not sure what that is all about. - No, nor am I. You needn't watch.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36- Shall I advert my eyes? - Yeah, you can look up to the ceiling.
0:21:36 > 0:21:38HE LAUGHS
0:21:38 > 0:21:41Maybe you can be sure the coast is clear.
0:21:41 > 0:21:45- More kissing!- Well, I'm not watching, so I wouldn't know.- Really?
0:21:45 > 0:21:47Shall I pressed pause then?
0:21:47 > 0:21:49I thought you were going to press delete.
0:21:49 > 0:21:51THEY LAUGH
0:21:51 > 0:21:54- Well...- Or fast-forward. - Well, you've got the box set.
0:21:54 > 0:21:56I have indeed got the box set.
0:22:00 > 0:22:03So if I could bring you on to Strictly, Strictly Come Dancing...
0:22:03 > 0:22:05Yes?
0:22:05 > 0:22:07- It was hugely successful for you. - SHE LAUGHS
0:22:07 > 0:22:09- Of course it was, yes.- You...
0:22:09 > 0:22:11I want to know how they approached you.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13You got a phone call? You asked them?
0:22:13 > 0:22:17They came to me every year
0:22:17 > 0:22:19for five years, from 2004 till 2009.
0:22:19 > 0:22:22Every year, Strictly came to me.
0:22:22 > 0:22:25And every year, I said "No, go away. I'm not doing it."
0:22:25 > 0:22:27But then two things happened.
0:22:27 > 0:22:29The first was I saw John Sergeant doing it.
0:22:29 > 0:22:32And the second thing that happened was I retired.
0:22:32 > 0:22:36And suddenly, I no longer owed anybody any duty of time or dignity.
0:22:36 > 0:22:40And I thought, "I can do it this year. I can actually do it."
0:22:40 > 0:22:41So I did.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44But there is no denying that it took courage.
0:22:44 > 0:22:48You are going out live to well in the region of 12 million people.
0:22:48 > 0:22:50And I think it was a huge decision
0:22:50 > 0:22:52and I think you made a lot of people happy.
0:22:52 > 0:22:55- Well, I am glad I did. - Oh, you did.- I'm glad I did.
0:22:55 > 0:22:57You made me and my family very happy.
0:22:57 > 0:22:59This is Ann Widdecombe on Strictly Come Dancing.
0:22:59 > 0:23:04Oh, that is the paso doble. That's the one where I get dragged.
0:23:04 > 0:23:08MUSIC: Wild Thing by The Troggs
0:23:29 > 0:23:32- Wonderful dancer, isn't he? - He's brilliant.- Great charisma.
0:23:43 > 0:23:47Look at him, he's pulling me, yeah? Only way you can do it.
0:23:47 > 0:23:49Look at him, he is actually turning me.
0:23:56 > 0:23:58Oh!
0:23:58 > 0:23:59Ann Widdecombe, that is...
0:24:01 > 0:24:02That's movement.
0:24:02 > 0:24:05SHE LAUGHS
0:24:11 > 0:24:13Oh, isn't that wonderful?
0:24:13 > 0:24:15SHE LAUGHS
0:24:18 > 0:24:20That poor guy, look what he is having to move.
0:24:20 > 0:24:24Is he cleaning the floor with you? I mean, what is he doing there?
0:24:24 > 0:24:26I think he is just hoovering up.
0:24:26 > 0:24:28Oh, bless you.
0:24:28 > 0:24:31Does it... Do you... Did you enjoy the freedom?
0:24:31 > 0:24:35I loved it. I loved it. As I say, I loved the absence of responsibility.
0:24:35 > 0:24:38I loved the fun. I loved the audience's reaction.
0:24:38 > 0:24:41As I say, I didn't expect it to last more than three weeks
0:24:41 > 0:24:43when I agreed to do it.
0:24:43 > 0:24:46I really didn't. And it all took off and...
0:24:46 > 0:24:49Round about week five, I was thinking to myself,
0:24:49 > 0:24:51- "Actually, I want to stay in this." - Yeah, yeah.
0:24:51 > 0:24:55And then week seven was the only week that we didn't get a standing
0:24:55 > 0:24:57ovation, and I thought, "This is it, they're tired of us."
0:24:57 > 0:24:59But they weren't.
0:24:59 > 0:25:01We went on another three weeks after that.
0:25:01 > 0:25:03And it was tremendous. I loved it.
0:25:03 > 0:25:06Did you have an issue with the dress?
0:25:06 > 0:25:11Um, I had an issue with the cape that they originally provided,
0:25:11 > 0:25:12which was long and black.
0:25:12 > 0:25:15Made me look like an advertisement for Scottish widows.
0:25:15 > 0:25:17So I said, "I am not wearing that." You had a veto.
0:25:17 > 0:25:19And I said, "I'm not wearing that."
0:25:19 > 0:25:21So they came up with this little red thing instead.
0:25:21 > 0:25:25But, I mean, the dress that I really remember was the one
0:25:25 > 0:25:28I christened Big Bird. It was the one we used at Blackpool.
0:25:28 > 0:25:29It was bright yellow!
0:25:29 > 0:25:31And it was covered with all these yellow feathers.
0:25:31 > 0:25:34And as soon as I saw it, I thought, "Big Bird!"
0:25:34 > 0:25:37But no, certainly wouldn't want to wear any of them.
0:25:37 > 0:25:39- No? You haven't got any in the wardrobe?- No.
0:25:39 > 0:25:40They all get sold in the United States.
0:25:40 > 0:25:42- We don't get to keep them. - Oh, really?- Yeah.
0:25:42 > 0:25:45- I wouldn't want to keep them. - Still friends with Anton?
0:25:45 > 0:25:47Still friends with Anton. Still friends with Craig, actually,
0:25:47 > 0:25:49cos, of course, I went on to do
0:25:49 > 0:25:50the live tour with Craig
0:25:50 > 0:25:51and then two pantomimes.
0:25:51 > 0:25:52And in between the pantomimes,
0:25:52 > 0:25:54I was actually on at the Royal Opera House.
0:25:54 > 0:25:57I mean, I can't believe what came out of Strictly Come Dancing!
0:25:57 > 0:26:01- I mean, it is all pantomime with Craig Revel Horwood.- Yeah.
0:26:01 > 0:26:03I think he is... He is just a wonderful man.
0:26:03 > 0:26:06- I've worked with him.- He has got a huge sense of humour.- Yeah.
0:26:06 > 0:26:09But do you think for you possibly a career on stage would have
0:26:09 > 0:26:10been an option?
0:26:10 > 0:26:11I don't think so.
0:26:11 > 0:26:15I had huge fun following Strictly, and I really enjoyed it,
0:26:15 > 0:26:16and I enjoyed appearing on stage.
0:26:16 > 0:26:19And I only ever once forgot a line.
0:26:19 > 0:26:22But on the other hand, I often reminded Craig about his lines.
0:26:22 > 0:26:25Of course, the great joy of pantomime is it is not Shakespeare.
0:26:25 > 0:26:29- No, no.- And if something goes wrong, you can quickly recover from it.
0:26:29 > 0:26:34And so I did enjoy it. But I don't fool myself that I am an actor.
0:26:34 > 0:26:37I am a performer, I am not an actor. There's a difference.
0:26:37 > 0:26:38There is a difference.
0:26:43 > 0:26:45What do you watch now? Going full circle.
0:26:45 > 0:26:47What sort of things do you enjoy watching on TV?
0:26:47 > 0:26:50I don't watch that much. I love Foyle's War.
0:26:50 > 0:26:54And having had to watch the repeats,
0:26:54 > 0:26:56I was delighted when they updated
0:26:56 > 0:26:57Foyle's War and they introduced
0:26:57 > 0:26:58some post-war stuff.
0:26:58 > 0:27:00And that was great fun.
0:27:00 > 0:27:02But if you are up for a little bit of escapism,
0:27:02 > 0:27:04what might you watch that might cheer you up?
0:27:04 > 0:27:08Oh, if I was in total escapism mode, then I watch Heartbeat.
0:27:08 > 0:27:09I actually quite like it
0:27:09 > 0:27:11as the end of the working day.
0:27:11 > 0:27:14It comes on at 5.45.
0:27:14 > 0:27:15And sometimes,
0:27:15 > 0:27:17if I have been working all day, I think,
0:27:17 > 0:27:20"Well now, why not a gin and tonic and Heartbeat?"
0:27:20 > 0:27:22You have been so incisive,
0:27:22 > 0:27:25so interesting. Have you enjoyed it?
0:27:25 > 0:27:27I have thoroughly enjoyed it.
0:27:27 > 0:27:31What we do want is to give you the choice to give a theme tune
0:27:31 > 0:27:34for us to go out with this afternoon. So what would it be?
0:27:34 > 0:27:37Well, it is one that we haven't discussed,
0:27:37 > 0:27:38but we really must have it.
0:27:38 > 0:27:40Dixon Of Dock Green.
0:27:40 > 0:27:42Dixon Of Dock Green it is. Thank you.
0:27:42 > 0:27:44SHE HUMS
0:27:44 > 0:27:46You see, if I only had the ability to hear music.
0:27:46 > 0:27:49THEY HUM
0:27:49 > 0:27:52- That's it. That's the one. - Something like that.- That's the one.
0:27:52 > 0:27:54You'll hear it for real now.
0:27:54 > 0:27:57- My many thanks to Ann Widdecombe. - Thank you.- Thank you for watching.
0:27:57 > 0:27:59We'll see you next time on TV That Made Me.
0:27:59 > 0:28:01This is Dixon Of Dock Green.
0:28:01 > 0:28:04MUSIC: Dixon Of Dock Green Theme