0:00:32 > 0:00:33TV.
0:00:33 > 0:00:35The magic box of delights.
0:00:35 > 0:00:38As kids, it showed us a million different worlds,
0:00:38 > 0:00:39all from our living room.
0:00:41 > 0:00:42So funny!
0:00:42 > 0:00:44That was state of the art! Arrgh!
0:00:44 > 0:00:45I loved this.
0:00:46 > 0:00:49Each day I'm going to journey through the wonderful
0:00:49 > 0:00:53world of telly... Cheers. ..with one of our favourite celebrities...
0:00:53 > 0:00:55We're going into space. It's just so silly.
0:00:55 > 0:00:57Oh, no!
0:01:00 > 0:01:03..as they select the iconic TV moments...
0:01:04 > 0:01:06Oh, my God, this is the scene. Oh, dear.
0:01:06 > 0:01:08..that tell us the stories of their lives.
0:01:10 > 0:01:11I absolutely adored this.
0:01:11 > 0:01:14Some will make you laugh...
0:01:14 > 0:01:16Don't watch the telly, Esther, watch me!
0:01:16 > 0:01:17..some will surprise...
0:01:18 > 0:01:20No way, where did you find this?
0:01:21 > 0:01:23..many will inspire...
0:01:23 > 0:01:26It used to transport us to places that we could only dream about.
0:01:26 > 0:01:28..and others will move us.
0:01:28 > 0:01:29I am emotional now.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32Today we look even more deeply.
0:01:32 > 0:01:34Why wouldn't you want to watch this?
0:01:34 > 0:01:35So come watch with us,
0:01:35 > 0:01:39as we rewind to the classic telly that helped shape those
0:01:39 > 0:01:42wide-eyed youngsters into the much-loved stars they are today.
0:01:52 > 0:01:53Welcome to The TV That Made Me.
0:01:53 > 0:01:55My guest today is one of Britain's best-loved journalists
0:01:55 > 0:01:59and broadcasters. It can only be the one and only Kirsty Wark.
0:01:59 > 0:02:01AUDIENCE APPLAUSE
0:02:02 > 0:02:06Kirsty started off in radio before switching to our TV
0:02:06 > 0:02:07screens in the '80s,
0:02:07 > 0:02:10anchoring countless current affairs shows
0:02:10 > 0:02:13and ground-breaking programmes such as The Late Show and Newsnight.
0:02:15 > 0:02:19The TV that made Kirsty includes a drama series that showed
0:02:19 > 0:02:22young women could be independent.
0:02:22 > 0:02:23Soon every mother will be unmarried.
0:02:25 > 0:02:28And an iconic interview with the Iron Lady.
0:02:28 > 0:02:31You were seen as a hectoring lady in London who has not achieved
0:02:31 > 0:02:33any popularity in Scotland at all.
0:02:33 > 0:02:36Today the expert interviewer becomes the guest.
0:02:38 > 0:02:42So, I want you to relax. How do you feel about being interviewed?
0:02:42 > 0:02:45Actually, I think it can be quite fun. I'm looking forward to it.
0:02:45 > 0:02:47Well, today is a celebration of TV.
0:02:47 > 0:02:50TV that shaped you, probably made you the person you are today.
0:02:50 > 0:02:53Some classic moments that you haven't seen for many years.
0:02:53 > 0:02:55But first up we are going to rewind the clock
0:02:55 > 0:02:58and have a look at a very young Kirsty Wark.
0:03:01 > 0:03:05Kirsty Wark was raised in the Ayrshire town of Kilmarnock.
0:03:05 > 0:03:08The family consisted of dad Jimmy, a lawyer,
0:03:08 > 0:03:12mum Roberta, a teacher, along with Alan, Kirsty's younger brother.
0:03:15 > 0:03:18After attending university in both Stirling
0:03:18 > 0:03:23and Edinburgh, Kirsty joined the BBC in 1976,
0:03:23 > 0:03:24starting off in radio,
0:03:24 > 0:03:28before gracing our screens in regional news and current affairs.
0:03:29 > 0:03:33The nation then woke up to her on the morning show, Breakfast Time.
0:03:33 > 0:03:37And over the years she confirmed her place as one of Britain's
0:03:37 > 0:03:39most respected political journalists.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44So, what was it like looking back?
0:03:44 > 0:03:48Um... Idyllic childhood? Yes. It was a lovely childhood.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51I grew up in a great, it was a kind of country industrial town,
0:03:51 > 0:03:56which, very sadly, doesn't have all the big industry it used to have.
0:03:56 > 0:03:59It was a lovely childhood. A childhood with a lot of freedom.
0:03:59 > 0:04:00That was the great thing.
0:04:00 > 0:04:02You could go out in the country on your bike,
0:04:02 > 0:04:05I was away from nine in the morning to five at night.
0:04:05 > 0:04:08There'd be no question in the summer holidays of contacting
0:04:08 > 0:04:09your parents, you just did that.
0:04:09 > 0:04:11So did you have much time to watch TV as a youngster?
0:04:11 > 0:04:15I can remember watching, I remember TV being rationed. Rationed?
0:04:15 > 0:04:19Those early, early childhood moments were obviously all black and white.
0:04:19 > 0:04:20Of course.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23The only time you saw colour was when you went to the pictures.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32Well, we're going to have a look at your earliest TV memory now. Great.
0:04:32 > 0:04:33Here it is.
0:04:34 > 0:04:37The Man From U.N.C.L.E, starring Robert Vaughn and David McCallum.
0:04:37 > 0:04:38Yeah.
0:04:40 > 0:04:44On a street in the East 40s, there is an ordinary tailor's shop.
0:04:44 > 0:04:48The series focused on McCallum, a Soviet agent, Illya Kuryakin,
0:04:48 > 0:04:52and Vaughn as his American counterpart, Napoleon Solo.
0:04:52 > 0:04:54The show's witty writing
0:04:54 > 0:04:58and fast pace always offered up high-end spy thrills.
0:04:58 > 0:05:02These two leading men really were the super sleuths of the '60s.
0:05:02 > 0:05:05They both work for U.N.C.L.E.
0:05:05 > 0:05:07U.N.C.L.E is an organisation
0:05:07 > 0:05:10consisting of agents of all nationalities.
0:05:10 > 0:05:12It's involved in maintaining political
0:05:12 > 0:05:14and legal order anywhere in the world.
0:05:14 > 0:05:16This was extraordinary for me, because all you
0:05:16 > 0:05:20heard about as a child was, you know, about Russia being different
0:05:20 > 0:05:23and people not being able to come out from behind the Iron Curtain.
0:05:23 > 0:05:25And then here was this, kind of,
0:05:25 > 0:05:29early detente between an agent from the West and an agent from the East.
0:05:31 > 0:05:35In this tense scene, Napoleon Solo is trying to smuggle a medal
0:05:35 > 0:05:38engraved with the names of enemy agents.
0:05:43 > 0:05:47When Ricardo Montalban's agent, Satine, emerges from the fog, Solo
0:05:47 > 0:05:52has to make a nail-biting decision about whether he is friend or foe.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03We loved it. We loved the espionage. I loved looking at America.
0:06:03 > 0:06:06I loved looking at New York. What age would you have been?
0:06:06 > 0:06:09Um, I think I was probably about seven or eight.
0:06:09 > 0:06:10So very young, still.
0:06:10 > 0:06:13I can remember my father had razor blades, and they came
0:06:13 > 0:06:18in a little cream box, and we turned these into pretend transistors.
0:06:18 > 0:06:21We used to play The Man From U.N.C.L.E...
0:06:21 > 0:06:24Oh, right. ..in the streets and in the park near where I was raised.
0:06:24 > 0:06:28Kirsty, can you picture what your old sitting room looked like? I can.
0:06:28 > 0:06:30Maybe you're like this. I've got this uncanny ability to see
0:06:30 > 0:06:34rooms as they were, so I can remember, um,
0:06:34 > 0:06:37we had a kind of rust-coloured carpet
0:06:37 > 0:06:41and we had a kind of bluey-green sofa.
0:06:41 > 0:06:43And that actually had been my grandparents',
0:06:43 > 0:06:46and Mum, I think, had had it covered at least twice.
0:06:46 > 0:06:51Mum had also gone to classes for making lampshades in those days.
0:06:51 > 0:06:55And so these lampshades would really take you back, wouldn't they? These lampshades would take me back,
0:06:55 > 0:06:59and she did all different sizes, all different colours.
0:06:59 > 0:07:02And they looked fantastic, I mean, she was incredibly good at it.
0:07:02 > 0:07:07Wait one moment, Kirsty, I've done it, I've created this for you.
0:07:07 > 0:07:08SHE LAUGHS
0:07:08 > 0:07:10There it is. Oh, my God, you've got a Dimple bottle.
0:07:10 > 0:07:14We've got a Dimple bottle. And you've got a kind of '60s shade.
0:07:14 > 0:07:18We've got an awful '60s shade. Yeah, the Dimple bottle is beautiful.
0:07:18 > 0:07:21That Dimple bottle... You're a 15-year-old.
0:07:21 > 0:07:24My father loved good whisky, but... Do you know what, I think
0:07:24 > 0:07:26I might have to steal that from you. Really?
0:07:26 > 0:07:31Well, I'll put it on the side. Let's put that there.
0:07:31 > 0:07:34There... Ah. Look at that!
0:07:34 > 0:07:36Come on, round of applause, please.
0:07:36 > 0:07:38APPLAUSE
0:07:38 > 0:07:41And it's got a little adjustable bit, so if you want to move
0:07:41 > 0:07:45it around, have a look at something, then you just put it back on.
0:07:45 > 0:07:47There you go, that's great. Fantastic.
0:07:53 > 0:07:58The next choice is a family favourite that you used to all laugh like drains at.
0:08:01 > 0:08:03Ah, Minister. Allow me to present Sir Humphrey Appleby,
0:08:03 > 0:08:07permanent undersecretary of state and head of the DAA.
0:08:07 > 0:08:08Hello, Sir Humphrey.
0:08:08 > 0:08:10Hello and welcome.
0:08:10 > 0:08:12This is, of course, Yes Minister.
0:08:12 > 0:08:17Stars Paul Eddington and Nigel Hawthorne were magnificent.
0:08:17 > 0:08:20Dry, wry and very funny.
0:08:20 > 0:08:22Opposition is about asking awkward questions.
0:08:22 > 0:08:24And government is about not answering them.
0:08:24 > 0:08:26Well, you answered all mine anyway.
0:08:26 > 0:08:28I'm glad you thought so, Minister.
0:08:30 > 0:08:33They embodied the '80s attitude towards politics.
0:08:33 > 0:08:37Poking fun at a world full of doubletalk and jargon.
0:08:37 > 0:08:39..known as the permanent secretary.
0:08:39 > 0:08:41Willie here is your principal private secretary.
0:08:41 > 0:08:43I too have a principal private secretary and he is
0:08:43 > 0:08:46the principal private secretary to the permanent secretary.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49Directly responsible to me are ten deputy secretaries,
0:08:49 > 0:08:5387 undersecretaries and 219 assistant secretaries.
0:08:53 > 0:08:55Directly responsible to the principal private secretaries
0:08:55 > 0:08:57are plain private secretaries
0:08:57 > 0:09:00and the Prime Minister will be appointing two parliamentary
0:09:00 > 0:09:01undersecretaries and you'll be
0:09:01 > 0:09:04appointing your own parliamentary private secretary.
0:09:04 > 0:09:06Can they all type?
0:09:06 > 0:09:07LAUGHTER
0:09:07 > 0:09:10None of us can type, Minister. Mrs Mackay types.
0:09:11 > 0:09:13She's the secretary.
0:09:13 > 0:09:16I absolutely adored this and we did as a family
0:09:16 > 0:09:19because it was just so accurate, so funny.
0:09:19 > 0:09:21You imagine the civil service being
0:09:21 > 0:09:24so superior to the politicians, which I still think they are.
0:09:24 > 0:09:27I think they think they are anyway, and they probably are.
0:09:27 > 0:09:30And the actual civil service are the ones that are doing the hard graft,
0:09:30 > 0:09:34the checking, holding things back, holding everybody to account and the
0:09:34 > 0:09:36civil service are the high flyers
0:09:36 > 0:09:38and they just watch the politicians come and go.
0:09:38 > 0:09:41Yeah, and you think this was the beginning of it all.
0:09:41 > 0:09:44I think this was the first real light that was shed on what
0:09:44 > 0:09:46actually happens in Westminster.
0:09:46 > 0:09:48So you watched this religiously?
0:09:48 > 0:09:49Religiously. I loved it.
0:09:49 > 0:09:51Really? Look at those performances.
0:09:51 > 0:09:53They're just amazing.
0:09:53 > 0:09:55Real division-one acting team, wasn't it?
0:09:55 > 0:09:57Absolutely. The dialogue was amazing.
0:09:57 > 0:10:01I know, and you can watch them now and still laugh your head off.
0:10:01 > 0:10:05Yes Minister was the catalyst for many political sitcoms and satires.
0:10:05 > 0:10:08But it wasn't the first on our screens.
0:10:08 > 0:10:11Only Fools And Horses creator John Sullivan brought
0:10:11 > 0:10:14Robert Lindsay's young Marxist Wolfie Smith and his own
0:10:14 > 0:10:20peculiar brand of politics to our screens in 1977 with Citizen Smith.
0:10:23 > 0:10:26A decade after Wolfie, The New Statesman arrived,
0:10:26 > 0:10:28when we were treated to Rik Mayall's
0:10:28 > 0:10:30ultra-right-wing Conservative
0:10:30 > 0:10:33backbencher, Alan Beresford B'Stard.
0:10:36 > 0:10:38Then, in 2003, Charles Prentice and
0:10:38 > 0:10:41Martin McCabe came to our screens.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44A pair of PR gurus played by Stephen Fry
0:10:44 > 0:10:47and John Bird in the series Absolute Power.
0:10:49 > 0:10:51And, of course, who can forget Doctor Who star
0:10:51 > 0:10:54Peter Capaldi as Malcolm Tucker,
0:10:54 > 0:10:57keeping everyone on their toes in the multi-award-winning
0:10:57 > 0:10:58The Thick Of It.
0:11:01 > 0:11:04So, did your parents encourage you to take an interest in the world?
0:11:04 > 0:11:06Absolutely to take an interest in the world.
0:11:06 > 0:11:10It wasn't just comedy that Kirsty's parents opened her eyes to.
0:11:10 > 0:11:13They also encouraged her to take an interest in the news,
0:11:13 > 0:11:18and one heartbreaking story from the 1960s really left its mark.
0:11:18 > 0:11:21I'm very intrigued with your next clip.
0:11:21 > 0:11:25It's a major event. A truly harrowing story
0:11:25 > 0:11:28about the Aberfan disaster
0:11:28 > 0:11:30reported by Cliff Michelmore.
0:11:30 > 0:11:32He's reporting on the disaster here.
0:11:32 > 0:11:37Never in my life have I ever seen anything like this.
0:11:38 > 0:11:42I hope that I shall never, ever see anything like it again.
0:11:42 > 0:11:46It was October 1966 when the colliery spoil tip above the mining
0:11:46 > 0:11:51village of Aberfan slid and engulfed a farm, houses, and a school.
0:11:52 > 0:11:55116 children and 28 adults died.
0:11:56 > 0:12:01Cliff Michelmore was visibly shaken as he reported from the scene.
0:12:01 > 0:12:06Only minutes ago, someone came down with a faint hope. They said
0:12:06 > 0:12:08that they'd found a child.
0:12:08 > 0:12:12And the child was underneath a blackboard
0:12:12 > 0:12:16and they thought that the child was alive.
0:12:16 > 0:12:1810 minutes before,
0:12:18 > 0:12:21they brought out a whole pile of bodies
0:12:21 > 0:12:23of 20 children
0:12:23 > 0:12:26where the whole of this muck had run straight through
0:12:26 > 0:12:29the whole of the classroom
0:12:29 > 0:12:31and literally buried them.
0:12:31 > 0:12:32Does it still move you?
0:12:32 > 0:12:35It does and, you know, these were miners searching for their own
0:12:35 > 0:12:38children and Cliff Michelmore was a tremendous reporter there
0:12:38 > 0:12:42and he really absolutely kept his - as he should do - kept his head.
0:12:42 > 0:12:43Only just.
0:12:43 > 0:12:48Only just, but I mean, that image of a child being lifted
0:12:48 > 0:12:51out from under a blackboard and thinking the child was alive...
0:12:51 > 0:12:53I mean, as a child at school, of course,
0:12:53 > 0:12:56you couldn't imagine what that would be like, to have the whole
0:12:56 > 0:12:59classroom engulfed and not only one classroom but several classrooms.
0:12:59 > 0:13:03The whole school. Wiped out and parents searching for the kids.
0:13:03 > 0:13:05It was unbelievably sad.
0:13:05 > 0:13:08And I watched that because that was the first time I'd
0:13:08 > 0:13:12seen in the aftermath of this event cameras and reporters
0:13:12 > 0:13:15talking about it on television, so it really stuck with me.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18I think it carries a responsibility to be...
0:13:18 > 0:13:22To be a straight arrow,
0:13:22 > 0:13:25if you can, and I think he showed that kind of reporting.
0:13:25 > 0:13:31He held it together and was crisp, was clear, didn't over-egg it,
0:13:31 > 0:13:33because it's nothing that needed to be over-egged, it was
0:13:33 > 0:13:36so horrific, but gave you clear fact about what had actually
0:13:36 > 0:13:38happened, and that really, I think, gave me
0:13:38 > 0:13:42an appetite to see what was going on in the world.
0:13:42 > 0:13:45One of my great heroes was Joan Bakewell
0:13:45 > 0:13:47and I can remember her reporting on television.
0:13:47 > 0:13:50I can remember Late Night Line-Up, 24 Hours, Tonight.
0:13:50 > 0:13:51All of these programmes that I would
0:13:51 > 0:13:53watch and they were really enjoyable.
0:13:53 > 0:13:57I can remember Late Night Line-Up actually had arts material
0:13:57 > 0:13:59on as well and all sorts of...
0:13:59 > 0:14:01There was actually someone
0:14:01 > 0:14:04sang at the end of the programme.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07I can remember that as well, so I mean, I loved all that,
0:14:07 > 0:14:09I thought that was a really...
0:14:09 > 0:14:12A great way to kind of imbibe television.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21This is your Must See TV.
0:14:24 > 0:14:25This is my room.
0:14:26 > 0:14:29You and Avril may hire the marital couch
0:14:29 > 0:14:34when you wish to sample the joys of marriage without its responsibilities.
0:14:34 > 0:14:37This is Take Three Girls. That's correct.
0:14:37 > 0:14:42And it was a fantastic drama.
0:14:42 > 0:14:45I'm one of the 7%. Of what?
0:14:45 > 0:14:49Unmarried mothers in Greater London.
0:14:49 > 0:14:51Not only was it fantastic,
0:14:51 > 0:14:55it was also BBC One's first-ever colour drama, following the lives
0:14:55 > 0:14:58of three young women sharing a flat in London.
0:14:58 > 0:15:01..infant symbiosis.
0:15:01 > 0:15:06You're frightfully clever, Kate, but you do confuse one, rather.
0:15:06 > 0:15:09Oh, hell, what does anything matter?
0:15:09 > 0:15:13He used to call this flat one of my assets.
0:15:13 > 0:15:16Others were my eyes, my hair,
0:15:16 > 0:15:21his unborn child, he knows, was one of my liabilities.
0:15:21 > 0:15:23So you think a show like this what was
0:15:23 > 0:15:25going on was very much of its time?
0:15:25 > 0:15:27I think it was absolutely of its time.
0:15:27 > 0:15:32It was 1969, I was 14.
0:15:32 > 0:15:34So, you see, this was incredibly influential for me.
0:15:34 > 0:15:38I loved it and I wanted to see it again. I would watch this again.
0:15:38 > 0:15:41Well, we'll give you the box set. Give me the box set. Yeah.
0:15:41 > 0:15:43If such a thing exists, give me the box set.
0:15:43 > 0:15:45It was just at the time of women's liberation
0:15:45 > 0:15:50and there was always, for me, the first kind of idea
0:15:50 > 0:15:55about women's liberation, three girls sharing a flat together.
0:15:55 > 0:15:58All the trials and tribulations of being on your own in the city.
0:15:58 > 0:16:01Never missed an episode. I think it was only two series.
0:16:01 > 0:16:0324 episodes, there were apparently, yeah.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06I just thought it was incredibly entertaining.
0:16:06 > 0:16:08Do you think it was quite risque for the day? It was.
0:16:08 > 0:16:11I think it was quite risque but then the BBC have done lots of fantastic
0:16:11 > 0:16:16stuff, Cathy Come Home... all sorts of stuff.
0:16:16 > 0:16:17Kitchen sink dramas.
0:16:17 > 0:16:21So, did you think that had an influence on your life?
0:16:21 > 0:16:24It was this opening up of sort of the idea that women can do
0:16:24 > 0:16:27anything and I think that a lot of the television started to
0:16:27 > 0:16:28play to that idea.
0:16:28 > 0:16:31Probably, television was actually quite, you know,
0:16:31 > 0:16:33ahead of its time in that regard.
0:16:33 > 0:16:35So, do you think it empowered you?
0:16:35 > 0:16:38Erm, I think it was one of the things that entertained me
0:16:38 > 0:16:41and made me think that women could definitely be independent.
0:16:41 > 0:16:44Definitely be independent. And you was, you was very independent.
0:16:44 > 0:16:45I was independent, yeah.
0:16:45 > 0:16:49I was pretty independent, yes, yeah, because I'd gone to school when I was very young,
0:16:49 > 0:16:54when I was four and so when I went away to university I was just 17.
0:16:54 > 0:16:58So, did you think it would be fun to sort of share a flat with three others?
0:16:58 > 0:17:01Yeah, and very quickly I did, I went to university when I was 17
0:17:01 > 0:17:02and I was in a flat when I was 18.
0:17:02 > 0:17:04What was you studying?
0:17:04 > 0:17:08I was studying first English and Scottish Literature
0:17:08 > 0:17:11and History Of Art and then I went on to do Scottish Studies
0:17:11 > 0:17:14and European Medieval History, Architecture, all sorts of things.
0:17:14 > 0:17:17And then I was lucky enough to be selected for the graduate
0:17:17 > 0:17:19entry programme, I applied for the graduate entry programme
0:17:19 > 0:17:22for the BBC to be a researcher and that's how I came into the BBC.
0:17:28 > 0:17:32Now to look at one of your biggest influences. A giant...
0:17:32 > 0:17:36Well, a colossus of a broadcaster in his day. Who am I talking about, do you think?
0:17:36 > 0:17:38I think you can only be talking about Robin Day.
0:17:38 > 0:17:42Yeah, Robin Day, who you worked with. I worked with as a radio producer, yes.
0:17:42 > 0:17:45Shall we have a little look, first? Yes. Let's have a look at Robin in action.
0:17:45 > 0:17:47Good evening from Number Ten Downing Street.
0:17:47 > 0:17:51On Panorama, Robin Day didn't take any nonsense from the then
0:17:51 > 0:17:53Prime Minister, James Callaghan.
0:17:53 > 0:17:57Why do you shrink from legislating about abuses in those
0:17:57 > 0:18:01particular spheres as opposed to a complete act?
0:18:01 > 0:18:03Why do you use the word shrink?
0:18:03 > 0:18:05Well, I use the word shrink because it occurred to me
0:18:05 > 0:18:07as an accurate word to describe your position. I see.
0:18:07 > 0:18:13The way that I have tried to fight the battle of inflation doesn't,
0:18:13 > 0:18:17with respect, give me the impression that I shrink from a fight
0:18:17 > 0:18:20if I believe it's right. Would you mind withdrawing the word shrink?
0:18:20 > 0:18:21I will withdraw the word shrink.
0:18:21 > 0:18:22SHE LAUGHS
0:18:22 > 0:18:24May I tell you why I used it?
0:18:24 > 0:18:26Because I felt that you may think there is
0:18:26 > 0:18:28a case for law in these matters
0:18:28 > 0:18:31because you did say in the House you were not against it in principle.
0:18:31 > 0:18:33Well, it's a perfectly fair point to put to me.
0:18:33 > 0:18:35See, that's great.
0:18:35 > 0:18:36You know, "I won't call you a shrink again,
0:18:36 > 0:18:38"but I'll tell you why I did call you it."
0:18:38 > 0:18:41It's a perfect piece of interviewing.
0:18:41 > 0:18:45He was very good on the one-two, where you kind of ask a question,
0:18:45 > 0:18:47which either way it's answered is problematic for the politician,
0:18:47 > 0:18:50and then he's ready with the next question. Yeah.
0:18:50 > 0:18:53I think that he changed the whole style of interviewing.
0:18:53 > 0:18:56He was not deferential, but he was rigorous.
0:18:56 > 0:19:00And I think partly to do with his lawyer's training.
0:19:00 > 0:19:03And he was also very funny, he never took himself that seriously.
0:19:03 > 0:19:05And I think his pomposity was not genuine.
0:19:05 > 0:19:07I don't think he really was a very pompous person.
0:19:07 > 0:19:09He was great fun.
0:19:09 > 0:19:11When I worked with him on The World At One as a producer
0:19:11 > 0:19:13and I used to sit next to him, I learned so much from him.
0:19:13 > 0:19:15Just the way he prepared for interviews,
0:19:15 > 0:19:16the way he thought about things.
0:19:16 > 0:19:20He did Question Time brilliantly and he was just forensic
0:19:20 > 0:19:21and I loved that.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23Were politicians scared of him?
0:19:23 > 0:19:25I think politicians were scared of him.
0:19:25 > 0:19:27He wasn't an establishment figure at all.
0:19:27 > 0:19:28He was very funny actually
0:19:28 > 0:19:32cos I can remember you'd go in early, early morning
0:19:32 > 0:19:35and Robin would come in half an hour later and he would sit waiting
0:19:35 > 0:19:36for the morning meeting.
0:19:36 > 0:19:39He would sit in this chair the whole time before The World At One
0:19:39 > 0:19:41and on one side, he would have a pack of fags.
0:19:41 > 0:19:42On the other side,
0:19:42 > 0:19:45he would have, not really thick cigars, but, kind of, cheroots.
0:19:46 > 0:19:49And from then till you went on-air, and during on-air,
0:19:49 > 0:19:51he would just smoke one then the other, one then the other.
0:19:51 > 0:19:54And the other thing, he would chew them as well.
0:19:54 > 0:19:58Cos he would chew the cigarette forgetting it wasn't a cheroot.
0:19:58 > 0:20:00And there was just this kind of fug around him.
0:20:00 > 0:20:04But he was a great person to learn from and he was generous.
0:20:04 > 0:20:07He was tough, but he was generous with his thoughts and his advice
0:20:07 > 0:20:11and I think he was an absolute colossus of broadcasting.
0:20:11 > 0:20:13For quite a long time you were producing.
0:20:13 > 0:20:15But when was that leap...
0:20:15 > 0:20:17When did that leap happen for you to get in front of the camera?
0:20:17 > 0:20:21It was in the early '80s and it was a Sunday morning
0:20:21 > 0:20:23politics and current affairs programme that I was one of
0:20:23 > 0:20:26the two producers on and the head of the department,
0:20:26 > 0:20:31quite a hard-bitten news journalist originally, just said,
0:20:31 > 0:20:33"Look, you know, we haven't got a woman presenting here.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36"You should try it." And that's what happened.
0:20:36 > 0:20:38So then I had to make a decision, really, a year later, about what
0:20:38 > 0:20:41I was going to do and I decided that as much as I love producing
0:20:41 > 0:20:45and love film-making, that I would really like to carry on presenting.
0:20:52 > 0:20:54Time to move on to one of your big moments.
0:20:54 > 0:20:56A truly iconic interview.
0:20:58 > 0:21:00I remember it.
0:21:00 > 0:21:02This is back in 1990.
0:21:02 > 0:21:05Your own backbenchers are saying that the Community Charge
0:21:05 > 0:21:07is "a political cyanide pill" and it will cause
0:21:07 > 0:21:09"deep hatred and division."
0:21:09 > 0:21:11Now, these are your own backbenchers.
0:21:11 > 0:21:14I have never heard the expression you have used before.
0:21:14 > 0:21:16Tony Marlow and Hugh Dykes respectively.
0:21:16 > 0:21:17Um...
0:21:19 > 0:21:22I did not hear what was said at the 22 Committee,
0:21:22 > 0:21:24but if that is so,
0:21:24 > 0:21:28I don't believe that their judgment is correct.
0:21:28 > 0:21:30After the European elections last year
0:21:30 > 0:21:33when you lost your two remaining Euro seats in Scotland,
0:21:33 > 0:21:35one of the losers, James Provan, said that you were seen as a
0:21:35 > 0:21:38"hectoring lady in London who has not achieved any popularity
0:21:38 > 0:21:39"in Scotland at all."
0:21:39 > 0:21:42Do you accept the fact that some Conservatives in Scotland
0:21:42 > 0:21:44think you're a liability to votes?
0:21:44 > 0:21:48Well, nevertheless, we have in the United Kingdom, as a whole,
0:21:48 > 0:21:49won three elections.
0:21:49 > 0:21:52So, I don't think that story can be wholly true.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55Otherwise, we should never have done that, nor have achieved the
0:21:55 > 0:22:00rising reputation which Scotland now has, to my great delight.
0:22:00 > 0:22:03But long-term, it's working and to the great benefit of all of us
0:22:03 > 0:22:05in Scotland.
0:22:05 > 0:22:08Yeah, well, that took a lot of preparation.
0:22:08 > 0:22:12I worked very hard with Brian Taylor, BBC Scotland's
0:22:12 > 0:22:16political editor, the late Ken Cargill who was the producer.
0:22:16 > 0:22:18Sorry, would you work on something like that for days?
0:22:18 > 0:22:21I worked on it, I thought about it a lot,
0:22:21 > 0:22:25I knew it was coming and I worked on it probably for...
0:22:25 > 0:22:26a week, really thinking about it.
0:22:26 > 0:22:29Because I knew that I only had half an hour
0:22:29 > 0:22:31and I knew there was certain things that
0:22:31 > 0:22:33I really had to get out in that interview and I had to be direct
0:22:33 > 0:22:38and I had to be persistent and rigorous, is what I hope was.
0:22:38 > 0:22:41But afterwards, she had a complete go at me in the studio.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44Oh, really? Absolutely massive go at me in the studio for interrupting.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47Yeah. Oh, for interrupting her? Yeah.
0:22:47 > 0:22:51Yes, because when the Conservatives heard that it was going to be
0:22:51 > 0:22:54a woman interviewing her, they tried to stop...
0:22:54 > 0:22:56the interview. Really?
0:22:56 > 0:22:58They got in touch with the BBC in Scotland
0:22:58 > 0:23:01and BBC stuck to its guns and said that she was coming to Scotland
0:23:01 > 0:23:04and she would not dictate...
0:23:04 > 0:23:07Her office would not dictate who would do the interview.
0:23:07 > 0:23:09And so, BBC stood behind me...
0:23:09 > 0:23:12Stood with me, cos I was the person slated to do
0:23:12 > 0:23:14the interview and we did the interview.
0:23:14 > 0:23:16But she was not very pleased.
0:23:16 > 0:23:19She wasn't comfortable with women interviewing her at all.
0:23:19 > 0:23:22What did you think of Margaret Thatcher?
0:23:22 > 0:23:25I thought that she was pretty formidable.
0:23:25 > 0:23:28And I thought that she...
0:23:29 > 0:23:31..had prepared in the wrong way.
0:23:31 > 0:23:33What had happened was,
0:23:33 > 0:23:36she knew she was seen as unpopular in Scotland and so,
0:23:36 > 0:23:39she took a briefing beforehand and she misunderstood the briefing.
0:23:39 > 0:23:44I think the briefings were done by Malcolm Rifkind and Michael Forsyth
0:23:44 > 0:23:48and they said to her, "You have to be more in tune."
0:23:48 > 0:23:50"You've got to seem more in tune", so forth.
0:23:50 > 0:23:52But she took that literally
0:23:52 > 0:23:54and she kept saying to me during the interview,
0:23:54 > 0:23:56"We in Scotland this" and "We in Scotland that"
0:23:56 > 0:23:59and apparently offstage, they were just going,
0:23:59 > 0:24:00"Oh, my God, this is a disaster."
0:24:00 > 0:24:03And I think she felt very uncomfortable.
0:24:03 > 0:24:04I think she knew that she wasn't popular.
0:24:04 > 0:24:07Well, she obviously knew she wasn't popular in Scotland.
0:24:07 > 0:24:09And it was a real difficulty for the Conservative Party then.
0:24:09 > 0:24:12And was this a pivotal moment in your career?
0:24:12 > 0:24:15I think it probably was, but it seems a very long time ago.
0:24:15 > 0:24:17Look at the hair, look at the shoulders!
0:24:17 > 0:24:20That was when we used to have to have big shoulders.
0:24:20 > 0:24:22Yeah, big shoulders. Big shooders.
0:24:22 > 0:24:24That in somehow, if we had big shoulders,
0:24:24 > 0:24:26we would be seen as being more authoritative.
0:24:26 > 0:24:28Oh, I see, the bigger the shoulders, yeah.
0:24:28 > 0:24:30I think it was like your carapace, wasn't it?
0:24:30 > 0:24:33Yeah, you're power dressing, aren't you?
0:24:33 > 0:24:34So, stepping away from politics,
0:24:34 > 0:24:37are you happy to talk about Celebrity MasterChef?
0:24:39 > 0:24:42I'd be happier to talk about it if I'd won.
0:24:42 > 0:24:44It's this whole thing about, if you're going to do it,
0:24:44 > 0:24:47you may as well try the best you can, really in anything.
0:24:47 > 0:24:49And so I was really going to try and do the best I can,
0:24:49 > 0:24:51but I couldn't believe that I got to the final.
0:24:51 > 0:24:53I was just so thrilled, so thrilled.
0:24:53 > 0:24:56Are you quite competitive?
0:24:56 > 0:24:58I'm probably quite competitive with myself.
0:24:58 > 0:25:00I am competitive, quite competitive, yes.
0:25:00 > 0:25:03But actually, in that kitchen, you all wanted everybody...
0:25:03 > 0:25:05You didn't want anybody to see...
0:25:05 > 0:25:08and when you saw other people's disasters, you were really upset.
0:25:08 > 0:25:10You didn't want people to have disasters, it was horrible.
0:25:10 > 0:25:13You don't want Schadenfreude. You don't want to see other people fail
0:25:13 > 0:25:16in that kitchen. Not unless they're really not very nice people and,
0:25:16 > 0:25:19by and large, the people on MasterChef are lovely people. Yeah.
0:25:19 > 0:25:21And you've been on a few other programmes.
0:25:21 > 0:25:23A few iconic ones.
0:25:23 > 0:25:25Yes.
0:25:25 > 0:25:26It's really weird. Doctor Who.
0:25:26 > 0:25:28Well, funnily enough, it's interesting.
0:25:28 > 0:25:31I think you could probably be on Newsnight for 100 years,
0:25:31 > 0:25:33but if you do one cameo in Doctor Who,
0:25:33 > 0:25:35suddenly you get all these people going,
0:25:35 > 0:25:36"Oh, my God, I saw you on the telly!"
0:25:36 > 0:25:38Really, was it like that?
0:25:38 > 0:25:39So, what did you do in Doctor Who?
0:25:39 > 0:25:42I actually said, "The end of the world is nigh" on the Newsnight set,
0:25:42 > 0:25:44which is a dangerous thing to do of course,
0:25:44 > 0:25:47because you must always be very careful about these things.
0:25:47 > 0:25:50But it was, "Get out the city, the end of the..." Ah, right.
0:25:50 > 0:25:53And I was quite scared of myself, actually.
0:25:53 > 0:25:55Really?
0:25:55 > 0:25:58It scared you? I might have believed me!
0:25:58 > 0:25:59That's how good an actress you are.
0:25:59 > 0:26:01But I was so thrilled!
0:26:01 > 0:26:03I mean, it was just such a, kind of,
0:26:03 > 0:26:05joy to be asked.
0:26:05 > 0:26:07You know, it was a thrill to be asked.
0:26:07 > 0:26:10There isn't a Lego bit of me that's Doctor Who though yet, sadly.
0:26:10 > 0:26:15That cameo, 30 seconds? 30 seconds? It's just a matter of time.
0:26:15 > 0:26:18It's great fun playing in dramas, just playing yourself.
0:26:18 > 0:26:20It's good fun.
0:26:20 > 0:26:23I'm just doing it again just now because I've just been in Ab Fab.
0:26:23 > 0:26:25Ab Fab film. Yeah, the movie.
0:26:25 > 0:26:27Yeah, which doesn't come out till July.
0:26:27 > 0:26:30But that was enormous fun cos I have such huge respect
0:26:30 > 0:26:33for Jennifer as a writer and for Joanna as well as actresses.
0:26:33 > 0:26:36They are consummate professionals, but they're great fun.
0:26:42 > 0:26:44So, what TV do you enjoy watching now?
0:26:46 > 0:26:48I absolutely loved Homeland.
0:26:48 > 0:26:52I am behind with War And Peace, though I will watch it.
0:26:52 > 0:26:54I loved The Bridge.
0:26:54 > 0:26:57I think that whole Scandi-noir has completely changed
0:26:57 > 0:27:00our viewing habits. Shetland's come out of that as well.
0:27:02 > 0:27:04These are the kind of things I watch.
0:27:04 > 0:27:07I watch documentaries as well.
0:27:07 > 0:27:08But...
0:27:08 > 0:27:11I wish I had more time, in a way, to...
0:27:11 > 0:27:14There always seems to be so much to do when I'm at home.
0:27:14 > 0:27:15I'm behind with The Good Wife
0:27:15 > 0:27:18and I think Alan Cumming is absolutely fantastic.
0:27:20 > 0:27:23I am not a person that's ever watched more than three
0:27:23 > 0:27:24episodes of Game Of Thrones.
0:27:24 > 0:27:26I obviously watch House Of Cards, it was wonderful.
0:27:26 > 0:27:29But I am the most annoying person to watch television with
0:27:29 > 0:27:31because what might happen is I might miss an ep
0:27:31 > 0:27:33and then the rest of the family are watching,
0:27:33 > 0:27:35cos my daughter's at home for a year.
0:27:35 > 0:27:37And my husband and she might be watching it
0:27:37 > 0:27:39and I'll be going, "Well, I want to watch it with you."
0:27:39 > 0:27:42And they'll go, "But you'll have to not talk. You can't talk."
0:27:42 > 0:27:44And I'll say, "But what if I'm missing something?"
0:27:44 > 0:27:46"Don't talk."
0:27:46 > 0:27:48And then, of course, 30 seconds later, I'm going,
0:27:48 > 0:27:49"How did that happen?"
0:27:49 > 0:27:51Then they have to press pause
0:27:51 > 0:27:54and there's a great long explanation and then we start again.
0:27:54 > 0:27:55Have you enjoyed your experience?
0:27:55 > 0:27:57Yes. It's been lovely having you on the show.
0:27:57 > 0:27:59Enormously.
0:27:59 > 0:28:02I thought you were lovely, kept eye contact... Really? ..friendly...
0:28:02 > 0:28:04Aw, lovely. ..nice shirt...
0:28:04 > 0:28:07Thank you very much. ..smile.
0:28:07 > 0:28:09Well, it's been lovely talking to you.
0:28:09 > 0:28:10Lovely talking to you too. Thank you.
0:28:10 > 0:28:13Now, we always give our guests to pick a theme tune to go out on.
0:28:13 > 0:28:15What's it going to be?
0:28:15 > 0:28:17My very favourite theme tune is definitely
0:28:17 > 0:28:22the theme tune from Arena... Oh, really? ..which is just classic.
0:28:22 > 0:28:24And I don't know whoever dreamt it up at the BBC,
0:28:24 > 0:28:27but it is one of the most enduring,
0:28:27 > 0:28:29iconic and atmospheric theme tunes.
0:28:29 > 0:28:31Well, thank you very much for being on the show.
0:28:31 > 0:28:33I enjoyed it enormously. It's been lovely to meet you.
0:28:33 > 0:28:35Thank you. It really has.
0:28:35 > 0:28:37So, my thanks to Kirsty and my thanks to you
0:28:37 > 0:28:40for watching The TV That Made Me. We'll see you next time, bye-bye.
0:28:40 > 0:28:42APPLAUSE
0:28:43 > 0:28:44Let's get cooking.
0:28:44 > 0:28:46# Everybody dance
0:28:46 > 0:28:47# Doo-doo-doo... #
0:28:47 > 0:28:48Whoa!
0:28:48 > 0:28:50# Clap your hands... #