0:00:00 > 0:00:02TV.
0:00:02 > 0:00:04The magic box of delights.
0:00:04 > 0:00:07As kids, it showed us a million different worlds,
0:00:07 > 0:00:08all from our living room.
0:00:09 > 0:00:11So funny!
0:00:11 > 0:00:13- That was state of the art! - Arrgh!
0:00:13 > 0:00:14I loved this.
0:00:15 > 0:00:18Each day I'm going to journey through the wonderful
0:00:18 > 0:00:22world of telly, with one of our favourite celebrities...
0:00:22 > 0:00:24- We're going into space. - It's just so silly.
0:00:24 > 0:00:26Oh, no!
0:00:28 > 0:00:31..as they select the iconic TV moments...
0:00:33 > 0:00:35- Oh, my God, this is the scene. - Oh, dear.
0:00:35 > 0:00:38..that tell us the stories of their lives.
0:00:39 > 0:00:40I absolutely adored this.
0:00:40 > 0:00:42Some will make you laugh.
0:00:42 > 0:00:44Don't watch the telly, Esther, watch me!
0:00:44 > 0:00:46Some will surprise.
0:00:47 > 0:00:49No way, where did you find this?
0:00:50 > 0:00:51Many will inspire.
0:00:51 > 0:00:55It used to transport us to places that we could only dream about.
0:00:55 > 0:00:57And others will move us.
0:00:57 > 0:00:58I am emotional now.
0:00:58 > 0:01:00Today we look even more deeply.
0:01:00 > 0:01:02Why wouldn't you want to watch this?
0:01:02 > 0:01:04So come watch with us,
0:01:04 > 0:01:07as we rewind to the classic telly that helped shape those
0:01:07 > 0:01:11wide-eyed youngsters into the much-loved stars they are today.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22Welcome to The TV That Made Me.
0:01:22 > 0:01:24My guest today is one of Britain's best-loved journalists
0:01:24 > 0:01:28and broadcasters. It can only be the one and only Kirsty Wark.
0:01:28 > 0:01:29AUDIENCE APPLAUSE
0:01:31 > 0:01:34Kirsty started off in radio before switching to our TV
0:01:34 > 0:01:36screens in the '80s,
0:01:36 > 0:01:38anchoring countless current affairs shows
0:01:38 > 0:01:42and ground-breaking programmes such as The Late Show and Newsnight.
0:01:44 > 0:01:48The TV that made Kirsty includes a drama series that showed
0:01:48 > 0:01:50young women could be independent.
0:01:50 > 0:01:52Soon every mother will be unmarried.
0:01:53 > 0:01:57A catchy bread commercial that stuck in Kirsty's mind.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02And an iconic interview with the Iron Lady.
0:02:02 > 0:02:05You were seen as a hectoring lady in London who has not achieved
0:02:05 > 0:02:07any popularity in Scotland at all.
0:02:07 > 0:02:10Today the expert interviewer becomes the guest.
0:02:12 > 0:02:16So, I want you to relax. How do you feel about being interviewed?
0:02:16 > 0:02:19Actually, I think it can be quite fun. I'm looking forward to it.
0:02:19 > 0:02:21Well, today is a celebration of TV.
0:02:21 > 0:02:24TV that shaped you, probably made you the person you are today.
0:02:24 > 0:02:27Some classic moments that you haven't seen for many years.
0:02:27 > 0:02:29But first up we are going to have a rewind the clock
0:02:29 > 0:02:32and have a look at a very young Kirsty Wark.
0:02:35 > 0:02:39Kirsty Wark was raised in the Ayrshire town of Kilmarnock.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42The family consisted of dad Jimmy, a lawyer,
0:02:42 > 0:02:46mum Roberta, a teacher, along with Alan, Kirsty's younger brother.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52After attending university in both Stirling
0:02:52 > 0:02:56and Edinburgh, Kirsty joined the BBC in 1976,
0:02:56 > 0:02:58starting off in radio,
0:02:58 > 0:03:01before gracing our screens in regional news and current affairs.
0:03:03 > 0:03:07The nation then woke up to her on the morning show, Breakfast Time.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10And over the years she confirmed her place as one of Britain's
0:03:10 > 0:03:13most respected political journalists.
0:03:15 > 0:03:18So, what was it like looking back?
0:03:18 > 0:03:22- Um...- Idyllic childhood?- Yes. It was a lovely childhood.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25I grew up in a great, it was a kind of country industrial town,
0:03:25 > 0:03:30which, very sadly, doesn't have all the big industry it used to have.
0:03:30 > 0:03:32It was a lovely childhood. A childhood with a lot of freedom.
0:03:32 > 0:03:34That was the great thing.
0:03:34 > 0:03:36You could go out in the country on your bike,
0:03:36 > 0:03:39I was away from nine in the morning to five at night.
0:03:39 > 0:03:41There'd be no question in the summer holidays of contacting
0:03:41 > 0:03:43your parents, you just did that.
0:03:43 > 0:03:45That seems, to me, completely inconceivable now.
0:03:45 > 0:03:48I think that's a terrible shame. It's probably absolutely fine,
0:03:48 > 0:03:50but I think, when my kids were growing up,
0:03:50 > 0:03:52if I thought they were on their bikes in Glasgow from
0:03:52 > 0:03:55nine in the morning, until six at night and hadn't contacted me,
0:03:55 > 0:03:57I'd be worried. That's ridiculous, isn't it?
0:03:57 > 0:04:00So did you have much time to watch TV as a youngster?
0:04:00 > 0:04:03- I can remember watching, I remember TV being rationed.- Rationed?
0:04:03 > 0:04:07Those early, early childhood moments were obviously all black and white.
0:04:07 > 0:04:08Of course.
0:04:08 > 0:04:11The only time you saw colour was when you went to the pictures.
0:04:16 > 0:04:19- Well, we're going to have a look at your earliest TV memory now.- Great.
0:04:19 > 0:04:20Here it is.
0:04:22 > 0:04:26The Man From U.N.C.L.E, starring Robert Vaughn and David McCallum.
0:04:26 > 0:04:27Yeah.
0:04:28 > 0:04:32On a street in the East 40s, there is an ordinary tailor's shop.
0:04:32 > 0:04:36The series focused on McCallum, a Soviet agent, Illya Kuryakin,
0:04:36 > 0:04:40and Vaughn as his American counterpart, Napoleon Solo.
0:04:40 > 0:04:42The show's witty writing
0:04:42 > 0:04:46and fast pace always offered up high-end spy thrills.
0:04:46 > 0:04:51These two leading men really were the super sleuths of the '60s.
0:04:51 > 0:04:53They both work for U.N.C.L.E.
0:04:53 > 0:04:55U.N.C.L.E is an organisation
0:04:55 > 0:04:58consisting of agents of all nationalities.
0:04:58 > 0:05:00It's involved in maintaining political
0:05:00 > 0:05:02and legal order anywhere in the world.
0:05:02 > 0:05:04This was extraordinary for me, because all you
0:05:04 > 0:05:08heard about as a child was, you know, about Russia being different
0:05:08 > 0:05:11and people not being able to come out from behind the Iron Curtain.
0:05:11 > 0:05:13And then here was this, kind of,
0:05:13 > 0:05:17early detente between an agent from the West and an agent from the East.
0:05:19 > 0:05:23In this tense scene, Napoleon Solo is trying to smuggle a medal
0:05:23 > 0:05:26engraved with the names of enemy agents.
0:05:31 > 0:05:36When Ricardo Montalban's agent, Satine, emerges from the fog, Solo
0:05:36 > 0:05:40has to make a nail-biting decision about whether he is friend or foe.
0:05:48 > 0:05:51We loved it. We loved the espionage. I loved looking at America.
0:05:51 > 0:05:54- I loved looking at New York. - What age would you have been?
0:05:54 > 0:05:57Um, I think I was probably about seven or eight.
0:05:57 > 0:05:58So very young, still.
0:05:58 > 0:06:02I can remember my father had razor blades, and they came
0:06:02 > 0:06:06in a little cream box, and we turned these into pretend transistors.
0:06:06 > 0:06:09We used to play The Man From U.N.C.L.E.
0:06:09 > 0:06:11- Oh, right.- In the streets and in the park near where I was raised.
0:06:11 > 0:06:15- So, who would you be?- Well, I don't know, I hoped I would be David McCallum,
0:06:15 > 0:06:18- because I think he was the more handsome of the two.- Yes, I agree.
0:06:18 > 0:06:20Yeah, I think you would have carried that off very well.
0:06:20 > 0:06:23It has replayed, hasn't it? I think it has been out...
0:06:23 > 0:06:26- And I think they should replay it again.- Yeah. You'd watch it?
0:06:26 > 0:06:29- I'd watch it.- I mean, it looks... I mean, it was a classic, wasn't it?
0:06:29 > 0:06:32- Of its era, you know.- It was. And these were two...
0:06:32 > 0:06:35Robert Vaughn and David McCallum were big actors.
0:06:35 > 0:06:39- And it was an incredibly well-made show.- Shall we carry on watching?
0:06:39 > 0:06:41- Yeah, let me see. - Let's have a little look.
0:06:44 > 0:06:47Now over this side and behind the posts. Go ahead.
0:06:47 > 0:06:51The climax of this scene sees Napoleon Solo trying to evade
0:06:51 > 0:06:54capture. This is typical Man From U.N.C.L.E.
0:06:54 > 0:06:58Moody, tense, edge of your seat stuff that made it a hit on both
0:06:58 > 0:07:00sides of the pond.
0:07:10 > 0:07:12Robert Vaughn, who was in Superman, of course.
0:07:12 > 0:07:17- Yes. And he was incredibly suave. - Yes.- But also, it was quite dark.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20- I loved all that. It was actually quite scary.- Yes.
0:07:20 > 0:07:23They're not like Batman and Robin or something like that,
0:07:23 > 0:07:25it was definitely a lot more sinister.
0:07:25 > 0:07:29- And they had gadgets.- Oh, you can't beat a gadget, can you?
0:07:29 > 0:07:31Apart from the transistor, lots of other gadgets,
0:07:31 > 0:07:35and that also played into this whole idea of espionage
0:07:35 > 0:07:39- and childhood and secrets, "Reds under the bed", all that stuff.- Yes.
0:07:39 > 0:07:43- Not that my parents actually talked to us about "Reds under the bed", but we knew about it.- Yeah.
0:07:46 > 0:07:50U.N.C.L.E. ended in 1968, but that wasn't the end of the road for the
0:07:50 > 0:07:52smooth super-sleuth David McCallum.
0:07:53 > 0:07:55In the '70s,
0:07:55 > 0:07:59McCallum starred as the hot-headed Flight Lieutenant Simon Carter
0:07:59 > 0:08:03in the grim and claustrophobic series Colditz, where we saw
0:08:03 > 0:08:07Allied prisoners of war trying to escape the infamous Colditz Castle.
0:08:11 > 0:08:16In the '80s, he starred alongside Diana Rigg in the Mother Love.
0:08:16 > 0:08:20McCallum and Rigg played the warring divorced parents of the main
0:08:20 > 0:08:21character, Kit.
0:08:24 > 0:08:28Then, in the '90s, he joined another brilliant British leading lady,
0:08:28 > 0:08:33Susannah York, when he played local gambler John Grey in Trainer,
0:08:33 > 0:08:35a drama set in the world of horse racing.
0:08:39 > 0:08:42And in 2003, McCallum crossed the Atlantic
0:08:42 > 0:08:44and returned to investigating,
0:08:44 > 0:08:49becoming Donald "Ducky" Mallard in the hit American series NCIS.
0:08:52 > 0:08:56- Kirsty, can you picture what your old sitting room looked like?- I can.
0:08:56 > 0:08:59Maybe you're like this. I've got this uncanny ability to see
0:08:59 > 0:09:03rooms as they were, so I can remember, um,
0:09:03 > 0:09:06we had a kind of rust-coloured carpet
0:09:06 > 0:09:10and we had a kind of bluey-green sofa.
0:09:10 > 0:09:12And that actually had been my grandparents',
0:09:12 > 0:09:15and Mum, I think, had had it covered at least twice.
0:09:15 > 0:09:20Mum had also gone to classes for making lampshades in those days.
0:09:20 > 0:09:24- And so these lampshades would really take you back, wouldn't they? - These lampshades would take me back,
0:09:24 > 0:09:28and she did all different sizes, all different colours.
0:09:28 > 0:09:31And they looked fantastic, I mean, she was incredibly good at it.
0:09:31 > 0:09:35Wait one moment, Kirsty, I've done it, I've created this for you.
0:09:35 > 0:09:37SHE LAUGHS
0:09:37 > 0:09:39- There it is.- Oh, my God, you've got a Dimple bottle.
0:09:39 > 0:09:43- We've got a Dimple bottle. - And you've got a kind of '60s shade.
0:09:43 > 0:09:47- We've got an awful '60s shade.- Yeah, the Dimple bottle is beautiful.
0:09:47 > 0:09:50That Dimple bottle... You're a 15-year-old.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53My father loved good whisky, but... Do you know what, I think
0:09:53 > 0:09:55- I might have to steal that from you. - Really?
0:09:55 > 0:10:00Well, I'll put it on the side. Let's put that there.
0:10:00 > 0:10:03- There...- Ah.- Look at that!
0:10:03 > 0:10:05Come on, round of applause, please.
0:10:05 > 0:10:06APPLAUSE
0:10:06 > 0:10:10And it's got a little adjustable bit, so if you want to move
0:10:10 > 0:10:14it around, have a look at something, then you just put it back on.
0:10:14 > 0:10:16- There you go, that's great. - Fantastic.
0:10:22 > 0:10:26So, I want to take you back now to an earlier time.
0:10:26 > 0:10:29This was a Mum and Dad favourite, this was.
0:10:31 > 0:10:34Just tell me, does this hurt?
0:10:34 > 0:10:38- Aye, Doctor.- Does it hurt here?- Oh!
0:10:38 > 0:10:40Oh, my, that's worst of all.
0:10:40 > 0:10:44Dr Finlay's Casebook was a medical drama set in 1920s Scotland,
0:10:44 > 0:10:47in the fictional town of Tannochbrae.
0:10:47 > 0:10:51- Well, she's pulled a muscle, that's what she's done.- I ken that.
0:10:51 > 0:10:55Didn't I say that, Annie? I kenned it was a muscle I pulled.
0:10:55 > 0:10:57You should ken that you're getting too old to do
0:10:57 > 0:11:00the Highland Fling. You're no wee lassie any longer.
0:11:00 > 0:11:02You might have to translate some of this.
0:11:02 > 0:11:06The thing about Dr Finlay's Casebook was, it was kind of pawkie and
0:11:06 > 0:11:11kind of kailyard, as we say in Scotland, it was a bit, um, it was funny.
0:11:11 > 0:11:13We thought it was funny more than anything else.
0:11:13 > 0:11:17It's the well, Doctor. It's the business of carrying the water.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20That's what's been killing me, Doctor. Carrying the bucket.
0:11:20 > 0:11:23You'll have to draw less at a time, won't you?
0:11:23 > 0:11:26You'll just have to draw half a bucket instead of a full bucket.
0:11:26 > 0:11:29- I cannae draw any at all.- Why not, it's just outside the door, isn't it?
0:11:29 > 0:11:33- Aye, but it's been closed since last fortnight.- Did the cats fall down it?
0:11:33 > 0:11:34No. It was Dr Snoddie.
0:11:34 > 0:11:37He came and slapped a notice on it and closed it.
0:11:37 > 0:11:39You made a date for that.
0:11:39 > 0:11:41You just kind of sat down, together with people,
0:11:41 > 0:11:44- and watched something and then discussed it.- Yeah.
0:11:44 > 0:11:46- It became an event.- It became an event.- Yeah.
0:11:47 > 0:11:50Medical shows have always been a family favourite,
0:11:50 > 0:11:54and we've had decades of great dramas based on the world of medicine.
0:11:56 > 0:11:59Dr Finlay transmitted in the 1960s.
0:11:59 > 0:12:01And then in the '70s, a young Linda Bellingham
0:12:01 > 0:12:05appeared on our screens as nurse Hilda Price,
0:12:05 > 0:12:08alongside James Kerry's Dr Baxter in General Hospital.
0:12:11 > 0:12:15Believe it or not, Casualty has been on our screens since the '80s,
0:12:15 > 0:12:19and is in fact the longest-running medical drama in the world.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24Kevin Whateley and Amanda Burton brought us Peak Practice in
0:12:24 > 0:12:27the 1990s, playing rural Derbyshire doctors
0:12:27 > 0:12:29Jack Kerruish and Beth Glover.
0:12:32 > 0:12:35And in 2004, Max Beesley's Bodies hit our screens.
0:12:35 > 0:12:37A medical drama so good,
0:12:37 > 0:12:41it made the Guardian's list of top TV dramas of all time.
0:12:42 > 0:12:46But for Kirsty, Dr Finlay's Casebook will always have a special
0:12:46 > 0:12:48place in her heart.
0:12:48 > 0:12:52But it is interesting, because they were using not quite dialect, but...
0:12:52 > 0:12:56- Not far off.- Not far off. Do you know what that reminds me of?
0:12:56 > 0:12:59That reminds me of something that came much later.
0:13:00 > 0:13:05- Which was a great series. Which is When The Boat Comes In.- Oh, yeah.
0:13:05 > 0:13:10And that was that wonderful northern accent, the Newcastle accent.
0:13:10 > 0:13:13And, again, showing a slice of life you didn't know about.
0:13:13 > 0:13:15And that was also a fantastic drama.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18But it came out of what my father's favourite programme really was,
0:13:18 > 0:13:22Para Handy, a comedy about three men in a puffer in the Clyde.
0:13:22 > 0:13:25The idea of long-running network dramas out of Scotland then
0:13:25 > 0:13:28- was great. That's fantastic. - What would I want with an umbrella?
0:13:28 > 0:13:33It's not raining. I mean, look. Blue skies, not a cloud in sight.
0:13:33 > 0:13:37Para Handy was the skipper of a small steamboat, the Vital Spark.
0:13:37 > 0:13:40This screen adaptation of Neil Munro's book was
0:13:40 > 0:13:42one of Scotland's first-ever sitcoms.
0:13:42 > 0:13:46It is leaving a trail of devastation.
0:13:46 > 0:13:49You know, there's prefabricated house in Glasgow that used to
0:13:49 > 0:13:52be in Edinburgh.
0:13:52 > 0:13:53That's what my father loved.
0:13:53 > 0:13:57He loved all that dry humour. Porridge, Para Handy, these kinds of things.
0:13:57 > 0:14:00So, did your parents encourage you to take an interest in the world?
0:14:00 > 0:14:02Absolutely to take an interest in the world.
0:14:02 > 0:14:06It wasn't just comedy that Kirsty's parents opened her eyes to.
0:14:06 > 0:14:09They also encouraged her to take an interest in the news,
0:14:09 > 0:14:14and one heartbreaking story from the 1960s really left its mark.
0:14:14 > 0:14:17I was going to say, I'm very intrigued with your next clip.
0:14:17 > 0:14:22It's a major event. A truly harrowing story
0:14:22 > 0:14:24about the Aberfan disaster
0:14:24 > 0:14:26reported by Cliff Michelmore.
0:14:26 > 0:14:28He's reporting on the disaster here.
0:14:28 > 0:14:33Never in my life have I ever seen anything like this.
0:14:34 > 0:14:38I hope that I shall never, ever see anything like it again.
0:14:38 > 0:14:42It was October 1966 when the colliery spoil tip above the mining
0:14:42 > 0:14:47village of Aberfan slid and engulfed a farm, houses, and a school.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51116 children and 28 adults died.
0:14:52 > 0:14:57Cliff Michelmore was visibly shaken as he reported from the scene.
0:14:57 > 0:15:02Only minutes ago, someone came down with a faint hope. They said
0:15:02 > 0:15:04that they'd found a child.
0:15:04 > 0:15:08And the child was underneath a blackboard
0:15:08 > 0:15:12and they thought that the child was alive.
0:15:12 > 0:15:1410 minutes before,
0:15:14 > 0:15:17they brought out a whole pile of bodies
0:15:17 > 0:15:19of 20 children
0:15:19 > 0:15:23where the whole of this muck had run straight through
0:15:23 > 0:15:25the whole of the classroom
0:15:25 > 0:15:27and literally buried them.
0:15:27 > 0:15:28Does it still move you?
0:15:28 > 0:15:31It does and, you know, these were miners searching for their own
0:15:31 > 0:15:35children and Cliff Michelmore was a tremendous reporter there
0:15:35 > 0:15:38and he really absolutely kept his - as he should do - kept his head.
0:15:38 > 0:15:40Only just.
0:15:40 > 0:15:44Only just, but I mean, that image of a child being lifted
0:15:44 > 0:15:47out from under a blackboard and thinking the child was alive...
0:15:47 > 0:15:49I mean, as a child at school, of course,
0:15:49 > 0:15:52you couldn't imagine what that would be like, to have the whole
0:15:52 > 0:15:56classroom engulfed and not only one classroom but several classrooms.
0:15:56 > 0:16:00- The whole school.- Wiped out and parents searching for the kids.
0:16:00 > 0:16:01It was unbelievably sad.
0:16:01 > 0:16:04And I watched that because that was the first time I'd
0:16:04 > 0:16:08seen in the aftermath of this event cameras and reporters
0:16:08 > 0:16:12talking about it on television, so it really stuck with me.
0:16:12 > 0:16:15I think it carries a responsibility to be...
0:16:15 > 0:16:18To be a straight arrow,
0:16:18 > 0:16:22if you can, and I think he showed that kind of reporting.
0:16:22 > 0:16:27He held it together and was crisp, was clear, didn't over-egg it,
0:16:27 > 0:16:30because it's nothing that needed to be over-egged, it was
0:16:30 > 0:16:32so horrific, but gave you clear fact about what had actually
0:16:32 > 0:16:35happened, and that really, I think, gave me
0:16:35 > 0:16:38an appetite to see what was going on in the world.
0:16:38 > 0:16:41One of my great heroes was Joan Bakewell
0:16:41 > 0:16:43and I can remember her reporting on television.
0:16:43 > 0:16:46I can remember Late Night Line-Up, 24 Hours, Tonight.
0:16:46 > 0:16:48All of these programs that I would
0:16:48 > 0:16:50watch and they were really enjoyable.
0:16:50 > 0:16:54I can remember Late Night Line-Up actually had arts material
0:16:54 > 0:16:56on as well and all sorts of...
0:16:56 > 0:16:58There was actually someone
0:16:58 > 0:17:00sang at the end of the programme.
0:17:00 > 0:17:03I can remember that as well, so I mean, I loved all that,
0:17:03 > 0:17:06I thought that was a really...
0:17:06 > 0:17:09A great way to kind of imbibe television.
0:17:14 > 0:17:19This is a family favourite that you used to all laugh like drains at.
0:17:22 > 0:17:24Ah, Minister. Allow me to present Sir Humphrey Appleby,
0:17:24 > 0:17:28permanent undersecretary of state and head of the DAA.
0:17:28 > 0:17:29Hello, Sir Humphrey.
0:17:29 > 0:17:31Hello and welcome.
0:17:31 > 0:17:33This is, of course, Yes Minister.
0:17:33 > 0:17:38Stars Paul Eddington and Nigel Hawthorne were magnificent.
0:17:38 > 0:17:41Dry, wry, and very funny.
0:17:41 > 0:17:43Opposition is about asking awkward questions.
0:17:43 > 0:17:45And government is about not answering them.
0:17:45 > 0:17:47Well, you answered all mine anyway.
0:17:47 > 0:17:49I'm glad you thought so, Minister.
0:17:51 > 0:17:54They embodied the '80s attitude towards politics.
0:17:54 > 0:17:58Poking fun at a world full of doubletalk and jargon.
0:17:58 > 0:18:00..known as the permanent secretary.
0:18:00 > 0:18:02Willie here is your principal private secretary.
0:18:02 > 0:18:04I too have a principal private secretary and he is
0:18:04 > 0:18:07the principal private secretary to the permanent secretary.
0:18:07 > 0:18:10Directly responsible to me are ten deputy secretaries,
0:18:10 > 0:18:1487 undersecretaries and 219 assistant secretaries.
0:18:14 > 0:18:16Directly responsible to the principal private
0:18:16 > 0:18:18secretary are plain private secretaries
0:18:18 > 0:18:21and the Prime Minister will be appointing two parliamentary
0:18:21 > 0:18:22undersecretaries and you'll be
0:18:22 > 0:18:25appointing your own parliamentary private secretary.
0:18:25 > 0:18:27Can they all type?
0:18:27 > 0:18:29LAUGHTER
0:18:29 > 0:18:31None of us can type, Minister. Mrs Mackay types.
0:18:32 > 0:18:34She's the secretary.
0:18:34 > 0:18:37I absolutely adored this and we did as a family
0:18:37 > 0:18:40because it was just so accurate, so funny,
0:18:40 > 0:18:42that you imagine the civil service being
0:18:42 > 0:18:45so superior to the politicians, which I still think they are.
0:18:45 > 0:18:48I think they think they are anyway, and they probably are.
0:18:48 > 0:18:51And the actual civil service are the ones that are doing the hard graft,
0:18:51 > 0:18:56the checking, holding things back, holding everybody to account and the
0:18:56 > 0:18:57civil service are the high flyers
0:18:57 > 0:18:59and they just watch the politicians come and go.
0:18:59 > 0:19:02Yeah, and you think this was the beginning of it all.
0:19:02 > 0:19:05I think this was the first real light that was shed on what
0:19:05 > 0:19:07actually happens in Westminster.
0:19:07 > 0:19:09So you watched this religiously?
0:19:09 > 0:19:10Religiously. I loved it.
0:19:10 > 0:19:13- Really?- Look at those performances.
0:19:13 > 0:19:14They're just amazing.
0:19:14 > 0:19:16Real division-one acting team, wasn't it?
0:19:16 > 0:19:18- Absolutely.- The dialogue was amazing.
0:19:18 > 0:19:22I know, and you can watch them now and still laugh your head off.
0:19:22 > 0:19:26Yes Minister was the catalyst for many political sitcoms and satires.
0:19:26 > 0:19:29But it wasn't the first on our screens.
0:19:29 > 0:19:32Only Fools And Horses creator John Sullivan brought
0:19:32 > 0:19:35Robert Lindsay's young Marxist Wolfie Smith and his own
0:19:35 > 0:19:41peculiar brand of politics to our screens in 1977 with Citizen Smith.
0:19:44 > 0:19:47A decade after Wolfie, The New Statesman arrived,
0:19:47 > 0:19:49when we were treated to Rik Mayall's
0:19:49 > 0:19:52ultra-right-wing Conservative
0:19:52 > 0:19:55backbencher, Alan Beresford B'Stard.
0:19:57 > 0:20:00Then, in 2003, Charles Prentice and
0:20:00 > 0:20:02Martin McCabe came to our screens.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05A pair of PR gurus played by Stephen Fry
0:20:05 > 0:20:08and John Bird in the series Absolute Power.
0:20:10 > 0:20:12And, of course, who can forget Doctor Who star
0:20:12 > 0:20:15Peter Capaldi as Malcolm Tucker,
0:20:15 > 0:20:18keeping everyone on their toes in the multi-award-winning
0:20:18 > 0:20:19The Thick Of It.
0:20:22 > 0:20:27So, have you ever met a politician that has reminded you of Yes Minister?
0:20:27 > 0:20:30I think I've probably met lots of politicians that have.
0:20:30 > 0:20:32I think the funny thing is, politicians,
0:20:32 > 0:20:34the ones that are most confident of their brief,
0:20:34 > 0:20:38and the better politicians, do not come with massive entourages
0:20:38 > 0:20:41and are actually much more sort of straightforward.
0:20:41 > 0:20:43The ones that are nervous about things always come
0:20:43 > 0:20:44with about eight people
0:20:44 > 0:20:47and they cram on to the side of the Newsnight set like this
0:20:47 > 0:20:49and, of course, they have to come with one or two maybe
0:20:49 > 0:20:52but some bring a whole kind of slew of people with them
0:20:52 > 0:20:54and I always think that's just to shore up their confidence.
0:20:54 > 0:20:55Ah, right, interesting.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58And then you get the odd civil servant who'll come forward
0:20:58 > 0:21:01and say things like "Now, now, you're not going to ask the Minister
0:21:01 > 0:21:03"that" or, "What might your first question be?"
0:21:03 > 0:21:06And it, I think, I'll just save that for the live broadcast because
0:21:06 > 0:21:11there are certain people you would help along who'd never been on television before, not politicians,
0:21:11 > 0:21:13if you were wanting to have an illuminating interview about
0:21:13 > 0:21:16something that's not necessarily of national interest
0:21:16 > 0:21:19and you need to get absolutely cut and dried answers
0:21:19 > 0:21:21but when it comes to politicians, why would you?
0:21:21 > 0:21:24I mean, they would-be media trained up to the hilt anyway, why
0:21:24 > 0:21:27would you ever give them an inkling on what you're going to talk about?
0:21:27 > 0:21:30- It's better for them to be on their mettle, to be honest.- Yeah, yeah.
0:21:30 > 0:21:33And I think the ones who are on their mettle would much prefer it to be like that.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36I mean, do you have a favourite sparring partner?
0:21:36 > 0:21:39- Someone you really enjoy...?- No, but I think...- Grilling.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42From all political parties there are people you enjoy the cut and thrust with.
0:21:42 > 0:21:45I mean, I always thought that Michael Portillo was a terrific
0:21:45 > 0:21:48interviewee. He was a great person to interview.
0:21:48 > 0:21:51He was very passionate about his subject.
0:21:51 > 0:21:55"Go to any other country and when you've got an A-level you've bought it." Did you say that?
0:21:55 > 0:21:58I think I did, and that's why I moved to correct the record immediately afterwards.
0:21:58 > 0:22:03- Well, why did you say it?- Because I meant to say, not in every other country would you
0:22:03 > 0:22:04be able to say the same. That is quite easy,
0:22:04 > 0:22:07if you're speaking off the cuff, to make that slip.
0:22:07 > 0:22:09- I was trying to bring home... - For a Cabinet Minister?
0:22:09 > 0:22:13People do make mistakes, you know? You may even have made a slip of the tongue yourself on some
0:22:13 > 0:22:16- occasion, I don't know.- I'm sure I have but I'm not a Cabinet Minister.
0:22:16 > 0:22:18So interesting, you know.
0:22:18 > 0:22:21We're only conduits for what I think the audience wants to hear
0:22:21 > 0:22:23and therefore what you're doing is you're going to work out what
0:22:23 > 0:22:28you need to hear from that interview and a lot of the time you don't get it because politicians are adept
0:22:28 > 0:22:30if they don't want to actually give you the answer
0:22:30 > 0:22:32but it's your job to press for it.
0:22:32 > 0:22:37I think it's what makes the British public frustrated, how they skirt around a question.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44This is your must-see TV.
0:22:47 > 0:22:48This is my room.
0:22:49 > 0:22:52You and Avril may hire the marital couch
0:22:52 > 0:22:57when you wish to sample the joys of marriage without its responsibilities.
0:22:57 > 0:23:00- This is Take Three Girls. - That's correct.
0:23:00 > 0:23:04And it was a fantastic drama.
0:23:04 > 0:23:08- I'm one of the 7%.- Of what?
0:23:08 > 0:23:12Unmarried mothers in Greater London.
0:23:12 > 0:23:14Not only was it fantastic,
0:23:14 > 0:23:18it was also BBC One's first-ever colour drama, following the lives
0:23:18 > 0:23:21of three young women sharing a flat in London.
0:23:21 > 0:23:24..infant symbiosis.
0:23:24 > 0:23:29You're frightfully clever, Kate, but you do confuse one, rather.
0:23:29 > 0:23:32Oh, hell, what does anything matter?
0:23:32 > 0:23:36He used to call this flat one of my assets.
0:23:36 > 0:23:39Others were my eyes, my hair,
0:23:39 > 0:23:44his unborn child, he knows, was one of my liabilities.
0:23:44 > 0:23:46So you think a show like this what was
0:23:46 > 0:23:48going on was very much of its time?
0:23:48 > 0:23:50I think it was absolutely of its time.
0:23:50 > 0:23:55It was 1969, I was 14.
0:23:55 > 0:23:57So, you see, this was incredibly influential for me.
0:23:57 > 0:24:01I loved it and I wanted to see it again. I would watch this again.
0:24:01 > 0:24:03- Well, we'll give you the box set. - Give me the box set.- Yeah.
0:24:03 > 0:24:06If such a thing exists, give me the box set.
0:24:06 > 0:24:08It was just at the time of women's liberation
0:24:08 > 0:24:13and there was always, for me, the first kind of idea
0:24:13 > 0:24:18about women's liberation, three girls sharing a flat together.
0:24:18 > 0:24:21All the trials and tribulations of being on your own in the city.
0:24:21 > 0:24:24Never missed an episode. I think it was only two series.
0:24:24 > 0:24:2624 episodes, there were apparently, yeah.
0:24:26 > 0:24:29I just thought it was incredibly entertaining.
0:24:29 > 0:24:31- Do you think it was quite risque for the day?- It was.
0:24:31 > 0:24:34I think it was quite risque but then the BBC have done lots of fantastic
0:24:34 > 0:24:39stuff, Cathy Come Home... all sorts of stuff.
0:24:39 > 0:24:40Kitchen sink dramas.
0:24:40 > 0:24:44So, did you think that had an influence on your life?
0:24:44 > 0:24:47It was this opening up of sort of the idea that women can do
0:24:47 > 0:24:50anything and I think that a lot of the television started to
0:24:50 > 0:24:51play to that idea.
0:24:51 > 0:24:54Probably, television was actually quite, you know,
0:24:54 > 0:24:56ahead of its time in that regard.
0:24:56 > 0:24:58So, do you think it empowered you?
0:24:58 > 0:25:01Erm, I think it was one of the things that entertained me
0:25:01 > 0:25:04and made me think that women could definitely be independent.
0:25:04 > 0:25:07- Definitely be independent.- And you was, you was very independent.
0:25:07 > 0:25:08I was independent, yeah.
0:25:08 > 0:25:12I was pretty independent, yes, yeah, because I'd gone to school when I was very young,
0:25:12 > 0:25:17when I was four and so when I went away to university I was just 17.
0:25:17 > 0:25:21So, did you think it would be fun to sort of share a flat with three others?
0:25:21 > 0:25:24Yeah, and very quickly I did, I went to university when I was 17
0:25:24 > 0:25:27- and I was in a flat when I was 18. - And where was that?
0:25:27 > 0:25:31That was in, in the outskirts of Edinburgh.
0:25:31 > 0:25:35In a place called Barnton which is a very, quite a well-to-do place
0:25:35 > 0:25:40but they'd built these slightly damp flat-roofed apartments which
0:25:40 > 0:25:42we rented and we stayed there for kind of three years.
0:25:42 > 0:25:44What was you studying?
0:25:44 > 0:25:48I was studying first English and Scottish Literature
0:25:48 > 0:25:51and History Of Art and then I went on to do Scottish Studies
0:25:51 > 0:25:56and studied History, European Mediaeval History, Architecture, all sorts of things.
0:25:56 > 0:25:58And then I was lucky enough to be selected for the graduate
0:25:58 > 0:26:01entry programme, I applied for the graduate entry programme
0:26:01 > 0:26:03for the BBC to be a researcher and that's how I came into the BBC.
0:26:03 > 0:26:05I was 21.
0:26:05 > 0:26:09- So starting off where at the Beeb? - I was in radio as a researcher.
0:26:09 > 0:26:13And I worked in Radio And Current Affairs and I worked in kind of,
0:26:13 > 0:26:18um, General Factual, Entertainment, General Factual Programmes
0:26:18 > 0:26:20and then I went up to Inverness to do everything.
0:26:20 > 0:26:24You know, actually report, produce, tidy up.
0:26:24 > 0:26:27It was a fantastic learning process. Absolutely fantastic.
0:26:27 > 0:26:30One of the happiest times I ever spent at the BBC
0:26:30 > 0:26:31and it's been a long time.
0:26:37 > 0:26:40Time now for a little bit of a break as we take
0:26:40 > 0:26:43a look at one of your favourite TV commercials, Kirsty.
0:26:45 > 0:26:48# She flies like a bird in the sky... #
0:26:48 > 0:26:52This Nimble Bread advert from the late '60s was aimed at a generation
0:26:52 > 0:26:56of viewers who were becoming more conscious of healthy eating.
0:26:56 > 0:26:59# She flies like a bird, oh me, oh my
0:26:59 > 0:27:02# I see her fly... #
0:27:02 > 0:27:04The point about this was,
0:27:04 > 0:27:07there's one of the earliest things about calorie counting and
0:27:07 > 0:27:10everything but I'm sure it was, I can't remember the name of the band.
0:27:10 > 0:27:12The band was the Honeybus.
0:27:12 > 0:27:14The Honeybus, that's right, the Honey something. Yeah.
0:27:14 > 0:27:17It was the first time I kind of remember there being
0:27:17 > 0:27:19a kind of pop band being used for a commercial.
0:27:19 > 0:27:23I mean, there's probably tons of them back then but that's the one I remember.
0:27:23 > 0:27:25Slimming Magazine approves Nimble
0:27:25 > 0:27:27as part of your calorie-controlled diet
0:27:27 > 0:27:29because Nimble is real bread but lighter,
0:27:29 > 0:27:31only 40 calories a slice.
0:27:31 > 0:27:34It was a very arresting image, wasn't it, that you could,
0:27:34 > 0:27:38- it was light as a feather, there was no calories in it.- I know.
0:27:38 > 0:27:42- I mean, it tastes, I have to say, it tasted disgusting.- Really?- Yeah.
0:27:42 > 0:27:45- Horrible. - That's why it was only 40 calories.
0:27:45 > 0:27:47Exactly, the kind of bread
0:27:47 > 0:27:49that would stick to the top of your palate.
0:27:54 > 0:27:58Now to look at one of your biggest influences. A giant...
0:27:58 > 0:28:02Well, a colossus of a broadcaster in his day. Who am I talking about, do you think?
0:28:02 > 0:28:04I think you can only be talking about Robin Day.
0:28:04 > 0:28:08- Yeah, Robin Day, who you worked with.- I worked with as a radio producer, yes.
0:28:08 > 0:28:12- Shall we have a little look, first? - Yes.- Let's have a look at Robin in action.
0:28:12 > 0:28:14Good evening from Number Ten Downing Street.
0:28:14 > 0:28:17On Panorama, Robin Day didn't take any nonsense from the then
0:28:17 > 0:28:20Prime Minister, James Callaghan.
0:28:20 > 0:28:24Why do you shrink from legislating about abuses in those
0:28:24 > 0:28:27particular spheres as opposed to a complete act?
0:28:27 > 0:28:29Why do you use the word shrink?
0:28:29 > 0:28:31Well, I use the word shrink because it occurred to me
0:28:31 > 0:28:34- as an accurate word to describe your position.- I see.
0:28:34 > 0:28:40The way that I have tried to fight the battle of inflation doesn't,
0:28:40 > 0:28:43with respect, give me the impression that I shrink from a fight
0:28:43 > 0:28:46if I believe it's right. Would you mind withdrawing the word shrink?
0:28:46 > 0:28:48I will withdraw the word shrink.
0:28:48 > 0:28:49SHE LAUGHS
0:28:49 > 0:28:50May I tell you why I used it?
0:28:50 > 0:28:52Because I felt that you may think there is
0:28:52 > 0:28:54a case for law in these matters
0:28:54 > 0:28:57because you did say in the House you were not against it in principle.
0:28:57 > 0:29:00Well, it's a perfectly fair point to put to me.
0:29:00 > 0:29:01See, that's great.
0:29:01 > 0:29:03You know, "I won't call you a shrink again,
0:29:03 > 0:29:05"but I'll tell you why I did call you it."
0:29:05 > 0:29:07It's a perfect piece of interviewing.
0:29:07 > 0:29:11He was very good on the one-two, where you kind of ask a question,
0:29:11 > 0:29:14which either way it's answered is problematic for the politician,
0:29:14 > 0:29:16- and then he's ready with the next question.- Yeah.
0:29:16 > 0:29:20I think that he changed the whole style of interviewing.
0:29:20 > 0:29:23He was not deferential, but he was rigorous.
0:29:23 > 0:29:27And I think partly to do with his lawyer's training.
0:29:27 > 0:29:29And he was also very funny, he never took himself that seriously.
0:29:29 > 0:29:31And I think his pomposity was not genuine.
0:29:31 > 0:29:34I don't think he really was a very pompous person.
0:29:34 > 0:29:35He was great fun.
0:29:35 > 0:29:37When I worked with him on The World At One as a producer
0:29:37 > 0:29:40and I used to sit next to him, I learned so much from him.
0:29:40 > 0:29:41Just the way he prepared for interviews,
0:29:41 > 0:29:43the way he thought about things.
0:29:43 > 0:29:46He did Question Time brilliantly and he was just forensic
0:29:46 > 0:29:48and I loved that.
0:29:48 > 0:29:49Were politicians scared of him?
0:29:49 > 0:29:51I think politicians were scared of him.
0:29:51 > 0:29:54He wasn't an establishment figure at all.
0:29:54 > 0:29:55He was very funny actually
0:29:55 > 0:29:58cos I can remember you'd go in early, early morning
0:29:58 > 0:30:01and Robin would come in half an hour later and he would sit waiting
0:30:01 > 0:30:03for the morning meeting.
0:30:03 > 0:30:06He would sit in this chair the whole time before The World At One
0:30:06 > 0:30:07and on one side, he would have a pack of fags.
0:30:07 > 0:30:08On the other side,
0:30:08 > 0:30:11he would have, not really thick cigars, but, kind of, cheroots.
0:30:13 > 0:30:15And from then till you went on-air, and during on-air,
0:30:15 > 0:30:18he would just smoke one then the other, one then the other.
0:30:18 > 0:30:21And the other thing, he would chew them as well.
0:30:21 > 0:30:24Cos he would chew the cigarette forgetting it wasn't a cheroot.
0:30:24 > 0:30:27And there was just this kind of fug around him.
0:30:27 > 0:30:30But he was a great person to learn from and he was generous.
0:30:30 > 0:30:34He was tough, but he was generous with his thoughts and his advice
0:30:34 > 0:30:37and I think he was an absolute colossus of broadcasting.
0:30:37 > 0:30:40So, I mean, he worked across lots of programmes, Robin Day, as well,
0:30:40 > 0:30:41- didn't he really?- Yes.
0:30:41 > 0:30:43Question Time.
0:30:43 > 0:30:46Question Time, doing interviews with Panorama and The World At One.
0:30:46 > 0:30:48So, that's why I think he was a colossus.
0:30:48 > 0:30:51Do you want to comment? Who do you agree with or
0:30:51 > 0:30:52what do you want to say?
0:30:52 > 0:30:55'Robin Day's ability to politely correct members of the public,
0:30:55 > 0:30:58'or politicians, was part of what made his Question Time
0:30:58 > 0:30:59'so entertaining.'
0:30:59 > 0:31:02..railways suddenly springing up everywhere.
0:31:02 > 0:31:04No, what he means is competition WITH the railways.
0:31:04 > 0:31:07Other forms of private transport, whether air or road,
0:31:07 > 0:31:09or going on a bicycle or whatever.
0:31:09 > 0:31:12I beg your pardon, I misunderstood the gentleman. I'm sorry.
0:31:12 > 0:31:14Now, in keeping with Question Time,
0:31:14 > 0:31:17I would like to now throw to the audience...
0:31:17 > 0:31:22We've got a woman there with the scarf on, have you got a question?
0:31:22 > 0:31:25Robin Day presented Question Time.
0:31:25 > 0:31:27Is that something you'd also like to host, Kirsty?
0:31:27 > 0:31:30Well, there isn't a vacancy for Question Time.
0:31:30 > 0:31:34And David Dimbleby is still, you know, going full throttle.
0:31:34 > 0:31:36So, you know, who knows what will happen in the future.
0:31:36 > 0:31:38I'm very happy on Newsnight just now.
0:31:38 > 0:31:42But I do think that Robin Day set a huge standard
0:31:42 > 0:31:43for Question Time.
0:31:43 > 0:31:45He made it so entertaining.
0:31:45 > 0:31:47He was very much a showman.
0:31:47 > 0:31:48Yeah.
0:31:48 > 0:31:51And he knew that the audience had to be entertained
0:31:51 > 0:31:54and he absolutely adored the cut and thrust with politicians.
0:31:54 > 0:31:56And I think, you know, I mean David Dimbleby's brilliant,
0:31:56 > 0:31:59- but I think Robin did it in a different way.- Yeah.
0:31:59 > 0:32:01Well done, thank you very much for that question...
0:32:01 > 0:32:04lady in the audience. Give her a round of applause.
0:32:05 > 0:32:09- See, we've made an effort there, just to make you feel at home.- Yeah.
0:32:09 > 0:32:12That was a little homage to, of course, Question Time.
0:32:12 > 0:32:14- Yes.- Yeah. You must have done it, though?
0:32:14 > 0:32:17Well, yes, we used to opt out once a month.
0:32:17 > 0:32:20When I was in Scotland, we would do it at BBC in Scotland once a month.
0:32:20 > 0:32:23Mm-hm. Now, for quite a long time you were producing.
0:32:23 > 0:32:24But when was that leap...
0:32:24 > 0:32:27When did that leap happen for you to get in front of the camera?
0:32:27 > 0:32:30It was in the early '80s and it was a Sunday morning
0:32:30 > 0:32:33politics and current affairs programme that I was one of
0:32:33 > 0:32:36the two producers on and the head of the department,
0:32:36 > 0:32:40quite a hard-bitten news journalist originally, just said,
0:32:40 > 0:32:42"Look, you know, we haven't got a woman presenting here.
0:32:42 > 0:32:45"You should try it." And that's what happened.
0:32:45 > 0:32:48So then I had to make a decision, really, a year later, about what
0:32:48 > 0:32:50I was going to do and I decided that as much as I love producing
0:32:50 > 0:32:56and love film-making, that I would really like to carry on presenting.
0:32:56 > 0:32:58Mm-hm. Was it a hard transition?
0:32:59 > 0:33:01I was learning all the time
0:33:01 > 0:33:02and then I went to Breakfast Time,
0:33:02 > 0:33:04which was great fun.
0:33:04 > 0:33:06And so...
0:33:06 > 0:33:10What I like to think is that, having been a producer,
0:33:10 > 0:33:13I think I was, possibly...
0:33:13 > 0:33:16And having produced presenters before,
0:33:16 > 0:33:17I was more in tune with...
0:33:17 > 0:33:21It gave me another understanding of both sides of it, really.
0:33:21 > 0:33:24And then, do you think producers get, you know,
0:33:24 > 0:33:26is it a tough call for them?
0:33:26 > 0:33:28- It's a hugely tough call. - They don't take any of the glory.
0:33:28 > 0:33:30They don't take any of the glory.
0:33:30 > 0:33:32- I think producing Newsnight's a really tough call.- Really?
0:33:32 > 0:33:34Absolutely.
0:33:34 > 0:33:36We've got a great team, but I think being the editor of the day
0:33:36 > 0:33:39on Newsnight is one of the toughest things you do. Oh, right.
0:33:39 > 0:33:41Should try doing this show.
0:33:43 > 0:33:46You've questioned so many politicians,
0:33:46 > 0:33:48but also a lot of stars.
0:33:48 > 0:33:50I'm going to throw into the mix now George Clooney.
0:33:50 > 0:33:52What was that like?
0:33:53 > 0:33:55- Were you swayed by him? - Now, he was...
0:33:55 > 0:33:58This is a case and point about somebody who had
0:33:58 > 0:34:01a natural confidence of what he was doing.
0:34:01 > 0:34:05Not over-exuberant, not an arrogance at all.
0:34:05 > 0:34:08And it was in the film Syriana, which he was very passionate about
0:34:08 > 0:34:11which he produced as well as starred in.
0:34:11 > 0:34:14And he came out with one person. And there was no...
0:34:14 > 0:34:19You talk about politicians, but actually on the junkets for films -
0:34:19 > 0:34:21which this was not, we were able to have a longer period with them -
0:34:21 > 0:34:24you know, reporters go in and out for five minutes at a time
0:34:24 > 0:34:26and there's a not quite circumscribed set of questions,
0:34:26 > 0:34:29but you only get your five-minute slot, then you're out.
0:34:29 > 0:34:32He was so generous with us. He knew it was for a half-hour for BBC Four
0:34:32 > 0:34:33and we talked for a long, long time.
0:34:33 > 0:34:35- Oh, really? - And he was charming.
0:34:35 > 0:34:37So, you know, he, I think again,
0:34:37 > 0:34:41someone that's not fretful about themselves
0:34:41 > 0:34:45and is natural and friendly and on top of their game
0:34:45 > 0:34:47and on top of their subject,
0:34:47 > 0:34:49exudes a quite different impression
0:34:49 > 0:34:51and creates a quite different atmosphere.
0:34:51 > 0:34:53- It's interesting, that, isn't it? - Yes, it really...
0:34:53 > 0:34:56It's very interesting to me and these people are often doing it
0:34:56 > 0:34:58for their own good, not for the good of the star.
0:34:58 > 0:35:00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:35:00 > 0:35:02You have to, sort of, battle through all this entourage to get
0:35:02 > 0:35:04- to them, yeah.- Exactly.
0:35:09 > 0:35:12Time to move on to one of your big moments.
0:35:12 > 0:35:14A truly iconic interview.
0:35:15 > 0:35:17I remember it.
0:35:17 > 0:35:19This is back in 1990.
0:35:19 > 0:35:23Your own backbenchers are saying that the Community Charge
0:35:23 > 0:35:25is "a political cyanide pill" and it will cause
0:35:25 > 0:35:26"deep hatred and division."
0:35:26 > 0:35:28Now, these are your own backbenchers.
0:35:28 > 0:35:31I have never heard the expression you have used before.
0:35:31 > 0:35:34Tony Marlow and Hugh Dykes respectively.
0:35:34 > 0:35:35Um...
0:35:36 > 0:35:40I did not hear what was said at the 22 Committee,
0:35:40 > 0:35:41but if that is so,
0:35:41 > 0:35:45I don't believe that their judgment is correct.
0:35:45 > 0:35:47After the European elections last year
0:35:47 > 0:35:50when you lost your two remaining Euro seats in Scotland,
0:35:50 > 0:35:52one of the losers, James Provan, said that you were seen as a
0:35:52 > 0:35:55"hectoring lady in London who has not achieved any popularity
0:35:55 > 0:35:57"in Scotland at all."
0:35:57 > 0:35:59Do you accept the fact that some Conservatives in Scotland
0:35:59 > 0:36:02think you're a liability to votes?
0:36:02 > 0:36:05Well, nevertheless, we have in the United Kingdom, as a whole,
0:36:05 > 0:36:07won three elections.
0:36:07 > 0:36:09So, I don't think that story can be wholly true.
0:36:09 > 0:36:13Otherwise, we should never have done that, nor have achieved the
0:36:13 > 0:36:17rising reputation which Scotland now has, to my great delight.
0:36:17 > 0:36:20But long-term, it's working and to the great benefit of all of us
0:36:20 > 0:36:22in Scotland.
0:36:22 > 0:36:25Yeah, well, that took a lot of preparation.
0:36:25 > 0:36:29I worked very hard with Brian Taylor, BBC Scotland's
0:36:29 > 0:36:33political editor, the late Ken Cargill who was the producer.
0:36:33 > 0:36:36Sorry, would you work on something like that for days?
0:36:36 > 0:36:38I worked on it, I thought about it a lot,
0:36:38 > 0:36:42I knew it was coming and I worked on it probably for...
0:36:42 > 0:36:44a week, really thinking about it.
0:36:44 > 0:36:46Because I knew that I only had half an hour
0:36:46 > 0:36:48and I knew there was certain things that
0:36:48 > 0:36:51I really had to get out in that interview and I had to be direct
0:36:51 > 0:36:55and I had to be persistent and rigorous, is what I hope was.
0:36:55 > 0:36:58But afterwards, she had a complete go at me in the studio.
0:36:58 > 0:37:01- Oh, really?- Absolutely massive go at me in the studio for interrupting.
0:37:01 > 0:37:04- Yeah. - Oh, for interrupting her?- Yeah.
0:37:04 > 0:37:08Yes, because when the Conservatives heard that it was going to be
0:37:08 > 0:37:11a woman interviewing her, they tried to stop...
0:37:11 > 0:37:14- the interview.- Really?
0:37:14 > 0:37:16They got in touch with the BBC in Scotland
0:37:16 > 0:37:19and BBC stuck to its guns and said that she was coming to Scotland
0:37:19 > 0:37:22and she would not dictate...
0:37:22 > 0:37:24Her office would not dictate who would do the interview.
0:37:24 > 0:37:27And so, BBC stood behind me...
0:37:27 > 0:37:29Stood with me, cos I was the person slated to do
0:37:29 > 0:37:31the interview and we did the interview.
0:37:31 > 0:37:34But she was not very pleased.
0:37:34 > 0:37:36She wasn't comfortable with women interviewing her at all.
0:37:36 > 0:37:39What did you think of Margaret Thatcher?
0:37:39 > 0:37:42I thought that she was pretty formidable.
0:37:42 > 0:37:45And I thought that she...
0:37:46 > 0:37:48..had prepared in the wrong way.
0:37:48 > 0:37:50What had happened was,
0:37:50 > 0:37:53she knew she was seen as unpopular in Scotland and so,
0:37:53 > 0:37:57she took a briefing beforehand and she misunderstood the briefing.
0:37:57 > 0:38:01I think the briefings were done by Malcolm Rifkind and Michael Forsyth
0:38:01 > 0:38:05and they said to her, "You have to be more in tune."
0:38:05 > 0:38:07"You've got to seem more in tune", so forth.
0:38:07 > 0:38:09But she took that literally
0:38:09 > 0:38:11and she kept saying to me during the interview,
0:38:11 > 0:38:13"We in Scotland this" and "We in Scotland that"
0:38:13 > 0:38:16and apparently offstage, they were just going,
0:38:16 > 0:38:17"Oh, my God, this is a disaster."
0:38:17 > 0:38:20And I think she felt very uncomfortable.
0:38:20 > 0:38:22I think she knew that she wasn't popular.
0:38:22 > 0:38:24Well, she obviously knew she wasn't popular in Scotland.
0:38:24 > 0:38:27And it was a real difficulty for the Conservative party then.
0:38:27 > 0:38:29And was this a pivotal moment in your career?
0:38:29 > 0:38:32I think it probably was, but it seems a very long time ago.
0:38:32 > 0:38:34Look at the hair, look at the shoulders!
0:38:34 > 0:38:37That was when we used to have to have big shoulders.
0:38:37 > 0:38:39- Yeah, big shoulders. - Big shooders.
0:38:39 > 0:38:41That in somehow, if we had big shoulders,
0:38:41 > 0:38:43we would be seen as being more authoritative.
0:38:43 > 0:38:45Oh, I see, the bigger the shoulders, yeah.
0:38:45 > 0:38:48I think it was like your carapace, wasn't it?
0:38:48 > 0:38:50Yeah, you're power dressing, aren't you?
0:38:50 > 0:38:51So, stepping away from politics,
0:38:51 > 0:38:54are you happy to talk about Celebrity MasterChef?
0:38:56 > 0:38:59I'd be happier to talk about it if I'd won.
0:38:59 > 0:39:01It's this whole thing about, if you're going to do it,
0:39:01 > 0:39:04you may as well try the best you can, really in anything.
0:39:04 > 0:39:06And so I was really going to try and do the best I can,
0:39:06 > 0:39:08but I couldn't believe that I got to the final.
0:39:08 > 0:39:10I was just so thrilled, so thrilled.
0:39:10 > 0:39:13Are you quite competitive?
0:39:13 > 0:39:15I'm probably quite competitive with myself.
0:39:15 > 0:39:18I am competitive, quite competitive, yes.
0:39:18 > 0:39:20But actually, in that kitchen, you all wanted everybody...
0:39:20 > 0:39:22You didn't want anybody to see...
0:39:22 > 0:39:25and when you saw other people's disasters, you were really upset.
0:39:25 > 0:39:27You didn't want people to have disasters, it was horrible.
0:39:27 > 0:39:30You don't want Schadenfreude. You don't want to see other people fail
0:39:30 > 0:39:34in that kitchen. Not unless they're really not very nice people and,
0:39:34 > 0:39:37- by and large, the people on MasterChef are lovely people.- Yeah.
0:39:37 > 0:39:39And you've been on a few other programmes.
0:39:39 > 0:39:40A few iconic ones.
0:39:40 > 0:39:42Yes.
0:39:42 > 0:39:44- It's really weird.- Doctor Who.
0:39:44 > 0:39:46Well, funnily enough, it's interesting.
0:39:46 > 0:39:48I think you could probably be on Newsnight for 100 years,
0:39:48 > 0:39:50but if you do one cameo in Doctor Who,
0:39:50 > 0:39:52suddenly you get all these people going,
0:39:52 > 0:39:53"Oh, my God, I saw you on the telly!"
0:39:53 > 0:39:55Really, was it like that?
0:39:55 > 0:39:56So, what did you do in Doctor Who?
0:39:56 > 0:40:00I actually said, "The end of the world is nigh" on the Newsnight set,
0:40:00 > 0:40:02which is a dangerous thing to do of course,
0:40:02 > 0:40:04because you must always be very careful about these things.
0:40:04 > 0:40:07- But it was, "Get out the city, the end of the..."- Ah, right.
0:40:07 > 0:40:10And I was quite scared of myself, actually.
0:40:10 > 0:40:12Really?
0:40:12 > 0:40:15- It scared you? - I might have believed me!
0:40:15 > 0:40:17That's how good an actress you are.
0:40:17 > 0:40:18But I was so thrilled!
0:40:18 > 0:40:21I mean, it was just such a, kind of,
0:40:21 > 0:40:22joy to be asked.
0:40:22 > 0:40:24You know, it was a thrill to be asked.
0:40:24 > 0:40:28There isn't a Lego bit of me that's Doctor Who though yet, sadly.
0:40:28 > 0:40:32- That cameo, 30 seconds? 30 seconds? - It's just a matter of time.
0:40:32 > 0:40:35It's great fun playing in dramas, just playing yourself.
0:40:35 > 0:40:37It's good fun.
0:40:37 > 0:40:41I'm just doing it again just now because I've just been in Ab Fab.
0:40:41 > 0:40:43Ab Fab film. Yeah, the movie.
0:40:43 > 0:40:45Yeah, which doesn't come out till July.
0:40:45 > 0:40:47But that was enormous fun cos I have such huge respect
0:40:47 > 0:40:51for Jennifer as a writer and for Joanna as well as actresses.
0:40:51 > 0:40:54They are consummate professionals, but they're great fun.
0:40:59 > 0:41:01So, what TV do you enjoy watching now?
0:41:03 > 0:41:06I absolutely loved Homeland.
0:41:06 > 0:41:09I am behind with War And Peace, though I will watch it.
0:41:09 > 0:41:11I loved The Bridge.
0:41:11 > 0:41:13I think that whole Scandi-noir has completely changed
0:41:13 > 0:41:15our viewing habits.
0:41:15 > 0:41:18Shetland's come out of that as well.
0:41:20 > 0:41:21These are the kind of things I watch.
0:41:21 > 0:41:24I watch documentaries as well.
0:41:24 > 0:41:25But...
0:41:25 > 0:41:29I wish I had more time, in a way, to...
0:41:29 > 0:41:31There always seems to be so much to do when I'm at home.
0:41:31 > 0:41:33I'm behind with The Good Wife
0:41:33 > 0:41:36and I think Alan Cumming is absolutely fantastic.
0:41:37 > 0:41:40I am not a person that's ever watched more than three
0:41:40 > 0:41:41episodes of Game Of Thrones.
0:41:41 > 0:41:44I obviously watch House Of Cards, it was wonderful.
0:41:44 > 0:41:46But I am the most annoying person to watch television with
0:41:46 > 0:41:48because what might happen is I might miss an ep
0:41:48 > 0:41:50and then the rest of the family are watching,
0:41:50 > 0:41:52cos my daughter's at home for a year.
0:41:52 > 0:41:54And my husband and she might be watching it
0:41:54 > 0:41:56and I'll be going, "Well, I want to watch it with you."
0:41:56 > 0:41:59And they'll go, "But you'll have to not talk. You can't talk."
0:41:59 > 0:42:02And I'll say, "But what if I'm missing something?"
0:42:02 > 0:42:03"Don't talk."
0:42:03 > 0:42:05And then, of course, 30 seconds later, I'm going,
0:42:05 > 0:42:07"How did that happen?"
0:42:07 > 0:42:08Then they have to press pause
0:42:08 > 0:42:11and there's a great long explanation and then we start again.
0:42:11 > 0:42:13Have you enjoyed your experience?
0:42:13 > 0:42:15- Yes.- It's been lovely having you on the show.
0:42:15 > 0:42:16Enormously.
0:42:16 > 0:42:19- I thought you were lovely, kept eye contact...- Really?- ..friendly...
0:42:19 > 0:42:21- Aw, lovely.- ..nice shirt...
0:42:21 > 0:42:24- Thank you very much.- ..smile.
0:42:24 > 0:42:26Well, it's been lovely talking to you.
0:42:26 > 0:42:28- Lovely talking to you too. - Thank you.
0:42:28 > 0:42:30Now, we always give our guests to pick a theme tune to go out on.
0:42:30 > 0:42:32What's it going to be?
0:42:32 > 0:42:35My very favourite theme tune is definitely
0:42:35 > 0:42:39- the theme tune from Arena... - Oh, really?- ..which is just classic.
0:42:39 > 0:42:41And I don't know whoever dreamt it up at the BBC,
0:42:41 > 0:42:44but it is one of the most enduring,
0:42:44 > 0:42:46iconic and atmospheric theme tunes.
0:42:46 > 0:42:48Well, thank you very much for being on the show.
0:42:48 > 0:42:51- I enjoyed it enormously. - It's been lovely to meet you.
0:42:51 > 0:42:52- Thank you.- It really has.
0:42:52 > 0:42:54So, my thanks to Kirsty and my thanks to you
0:42:54 > 0:42:57for watching The TV That Made Me. We'll see you next time, bye-bye.
0:42:57 > 0:43:01APPLAUSE
0:43:01 > 0:43:08MUSIC: Another Green World by Brian Eno