0:00:02 > 0:00:04It was a show that went out three nights a week...live.
0:00:04 > 0:00:05Mr Wogan, you're on, you're on.
0:00:05 > 0:00:07With a live audience,
0:00:07 > 0:00:09and everyone who's anyone dropping in.
0:00:09 > 0:00:12The great and the good, the bad and the ugly,
0:00:12 > 0:00:13and they called it Wogan.
0:00:13 > 0:00:15Ha, I never knew why.
0:00:15 > 0:00:17So, if you're sitting comfortably,
0:00:17 > 0:00:20I'll show you something I made earlier.
0:00:20 > 0:00:23God knows what they'll make of us in 25 years' time.
0:00:35 > 0:00:37So, there you are again,
0:00:37 > 0:00:41and welcome to another crash course in Wogan-ology.
0:00:41 > 0:00:43We have a real cast of colourful characters for you today,
0:00:43 > 0:00:45from those at the top of their game,
0:00:45 > 0:00:48to those who are...maybe just over the top.
0:00:48 > 0:00:49They include The Three Tenors,
0:00:49 > 0:00:51Pavarotti,
0:00:51 > 0:00:52Carreras,
0:00:52 > 0:00:54and Domingo.
0:00:54 > 0:00:55Quentin Crisp,
0:00:55 > 0:00:57Barbara Cartland
0:00:57 > 0:00:58and Jackie Collins.
0:00:59 > 0:01:02Well, let's begin with a rare interview
0:01:02 > 0:01:05with one of the most powerful men on the planet,
0:01:05 > 0:01:06Rupert Murdoch.
0:01:06 > 0:01:10An Australian on a mission to shake up British broadcasting.
0:01:10 > 0:01:13In 1989, he was transforming himself
0:01:13 > 0:01:15from press baron to media mogul.
0:01:15 > 0:01:17And he came on the show
0:01:17 > 0:01:20just a few days after the launch of Sky Television.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22But, I mean, is Britain a hard place for you to work?
0:01:22 > 0:01:26Did you find it easy to reconcile an Australian temperament
0:01:26 > 0:01:28with working here?
0:01:28 > 0:01:29Oh, very easy.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32I think that Australians tend to do well here.
0:01:32 > 0:01:34Erm, I know, I have many friends who've come from Australia
0:01:34 > 0:01:37- have done well here. - Why do you think they do?
0:01:37 > 0:01:39Well, I don't want to be rude about the English.
0:01:39 > 0:01:43Well, go one, you've been rude all week about the English.
0:01:43 > 0:01:44No, I think they come here
0:01:44 > 0:01:47with greater determination, greater energy.
0:01:47 > 0:01:50They come from the New World and they, they're not...
0:01:50 > 0:01:52they don't have, perhaps, the respect they ought to have
0:01:52 > 0:01:54for the rules of the old world
0:01:54 > 0:01:56and it lets them break through.
0:01:56 > 0:01:58We did things that people said couldn't be done
0:01:58 > 0:02:02like having another popular newspaper,
0:02:02 > 0:02:05people thought there was only room for one paper, the Daily Mirror.
0:02:05 > 0:02:07We didn't listen to those, those people.
0:02:07 > 0:02:10People say it's not possible to have more television.
0:02:10 > 0:02:12We believe people would love more television.
0:02:12 > 0:02:16You think you know what the British public want?
0:02:16 > 0:02:19- Yes, I think so.- What do you think you're offering people
0:02:19 > 0:02:20that they would want to watch?
0:02:20 > 0:02:22Choice, much more choice.
0:02:22 > 0:02:25Films before they're on the other television channels,
0:02:25 > 0:02:26greater amount of sport,
0:02:26 > 0:02:28continuous news,
0:02:28 > 0:02:31and a first-class entertainment channel on Sky.
0:02:31 > 0:02:35We heard, today, that in the surveys taken on British cable systems,
0:02:35 > 0:02:39er, already we're, in those 200,000 homes in Britain.
0:02:39 > 0:02:43er, we're ahead of ITN and just a bit behind BBC One...
0:02:43 > 0:02:44So there, look out.
0:02:44 > 0:02:47- Well, statistics, you can prove anything with, of course.- Of course.
0:02:47 > 0:02:52My family in Ireland have been watching Sky Television free...
0:02:52 > 0:02:53er, for at least a year
0:02:53 > 0:02:55and they don't think much of it.
0:02:55 > 0:02:57Well, it's getting a lot better. LAUGHTER
0:02:57 > 0:02:59- Yeah.- Why do they watch?
0:02:59 > 0:03:01- Well, they don't really, they... - LAUGHTER
0:03:01 > 0:03:03But it's there for nothing, you see.
0:03:03 > 0:03:05When you start trying to charge them for it,
0:03:05 > 0:03:06I wonder if they will watch it.
0:03:06 > 0:03:08We're not charging for it.
0:03:08 > 0:03:10We don't, we'll never charge for that.
0:03:10 > 0:03:12We charge some of the cable systems who carry us,
0:03:12 > 0:03:14but the viewers will not. and we're very happy.
0:03:14 > 0:03:17That's the whole point, we're giving people choice,
0:03:17 > 0:03:18we're not saying they have to watch.
0:03:18 > 0:03:21But you're giving them a choice, there is that argument,
0:03:21 > 0:03:24we won't dwell on it for longer. When I go to America, and they say,
0:03:24 > 0:03:25"You've got tremendous choice,
0:03:25 > 0:03:27"you've got 30 programmes to look at."
0:03:27 > 0:03:31And you turn them on and you've got a choice of 20 game shows...
0:03:31 > 0:03:33..er, a Holy Roller,
0:03:33 > 0:03:36erm, one of these terrible tabloid television people
0:03:36 > 0:03:39exercising their prejudices all over you...
0:03:39 > 0:03:41and a strip poker game.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44And it's not, it's a choice, but it's a choice of nothing.
0:03:44 > 0:03:47You're pretty clever to find strip poker on television,
0:03:47 > 0:03:50- I've never seen...- I saw the cables do some pretty racy stuff.
0:03:50 > 0:03:51You want stay up a little late at night.
0:03:51 > 0:03:53LAUGHTER I'm too square for that.
0:03:53 > 0:03:57- A choice of nothing is...- Oh, I don't agree with that, of course.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00I think that we get the wrong view here because BBC and ITV go over
0:04:00 > 0:04:02and bid for Dallas and Dynasty
0:04:02 > 0:04:04and that sort of stuff, which is all right.
0:04:04 > 0:04:06- Well, that's the best of the American market.- Not at all.
0:04:06 > 0:04:09The best is 60 Minutes, the best is Moonlighting,
0:04:09 > 0:04:10which you hide on BBC Two,
0:04:10 > 0:04:14or LA Law, which I think is on Channel 4.
0:04:14 > 0:04:16We put, you put the best of American television
0:04:16 > 0:04:18on the least popular channels here.
0:04:18 > 0:04:21I'm interested you think LA Law is particularly good,
0:04:21 > 0:04:23- I don't think it is... - LAUGHTER
0:04:23 > 0:04:25- Well, it's a matter of taste.- Of course, that's what it comes
0:04:25 > 0:04:28down to, but will it come down to your taste?
0:04:28 > 0:04:32I mean, if one looks at the newspapers that you own here,
0:04:32 > 0:04:34one can scarcely say that,
0:04:34 > 0:04:35for the majority of them anyway,
0:04:35 > 0:04:38that you have raised the standards of British journalism.
0:04:38 > 0:04:40Oh, I absolutely defy that,
0:04:40 > 0:04:41I think that's very wrong.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44And you can't say that about, whatever your taste,
0:04:44 > 0:04:47about the majority of them, because they're all very different.
0:04:47 > 0:04:49You could certainly say it about
0:04:49 > 0:04:51the Sun or the News of the World, couldn't you?
0:04:51 > 0:04:52- I think...- Do you read them often?
0:04:52 > 0:04:55Every day, and I think we've improved them greatly.
0:04:55 > 0:04:57- Are you proud of them?- Yes, indeed.
0:04:57 > 0:04:58Particularly The Sun.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01- Are you really?- Yes. LAUGHTER
0:05:01 > 0:05:03- The front page of The Sun? - Absolutely.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06When you see that somebody's life has been stomped on
0:05:06 > 0:05:09and their prospects ruined and their family dragged through the mire?
0:05:09 > 0:05:11Well, you very seldom find that in The Sun.
0:05:11 > 0:05:13You do find occasionally... LAUGHTER
0:05:13 > 0:05:15No, no, you do find the big news covered brilliantly,
0:05:15 > 0:05:17you find a lot of fun there.
0:05:17 > 0:05:20Your big news is covered on, big news on page six.
0:05:20 > 0:05:21No, it's not.
0:05:21 > 0:05:23- The sensation is on page one. - That's not true.
0:05:23 > 0:05:25When there's big news, a budget,
0:05:25 > 0:05:28I mean, you'll find it on page one, two, three, four, five.
0:05:28 > 0:05:31Er, right through, everything gets pushed back for big news.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34Erm, but we will investigate
0:05:34 > 0:05:39and we don't believe that people who set themselves up
0:05:39 > 0:05:41in positions of privilege or as public figures
0:05:41 > 0:05:43or as public role models
0:05:43 > 0:05:46and either make money from that or get power from that.
0:05:46 > 0:05:47We believe that they should be looked at.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50We're live in a democracy now and we want to judge...
0:05:50 > 0:05:54Our readers and your viewers want to judge people
0:05:54 > 0:05:56by what sort of character they have
0:05:56 > 0:05:58just as much as what political party they're in.
0:05:58 > 0:06:00You have to admit, there're ways of looking at people
0:06:00 > 0:06:02and ways of looking at... We won't dwell on it...
0:06:02 > 0:06:05- No, let's just take an example. - ..cos we'll disagree.
0:06:05 > 0:06:08Well, let's take an example. Right away from here quite neutral.
0:06:08 > 0:06:10Er, take Senator Hart, Gary Hart.
0:06:10 > 0:06:13He had suffered a terrible invasion of privacy.
0:06:13 > 0:06:16They followed him, found him with a girl,
0:06:16 > 0:06:18it was published in very respectable newspapers,
0:06:18 > 0:06:20er, but it was published.
0:06:20 > 0:06:23And he was no longer able to stand as president.
0:06:23 > 0:06:26He very may have well have been the President of the United States
0:06:26 > 0:06:28and then leader of the Free World.
0:06:28 > 0:06:30Er, and I think that newspaper was quite right
0:06:30 > 0:06:33to look at the character of the people
0:06:33 > 0:06:36who're setting themselves up as fit to lead the world.
0:06:36 > 0:06:38Yes, I could perhaps go along with you
0:06:38 > 0:06:40part of the way with that but...
0:06:40 > 0:06:43I think, if you take some television personalities
0:06:43 > 0:06:47who've suffered greatly at the hands of some of your papers,
0:06:47 > 0:06:49I think...that's hard to justify.
0:06:49 > 0:06:52I wouldn't deny there have been excesses, and, um...
0:06:52 > 0:06:54- Well I'm glad. - We'd be the first to look at that.
0:06:54 > 0:06:56Will you stamp on that?
0:06:56 > 0:06:59I do stamp on it, and we do look at it and think very hard about things.
0:06:59 > 0:07:00Doesn't seem to have changed,
0:07:00 > 0:07:02but I'd like to see you stamp a little harder.
0:07:02 > 0:07:04No, we'll see.
0:07:04 > 0:07:08He came, we saw, and he conquered.
0:07:08 > 0:07:10Well, I need some music after that.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13Here's one for a news man like Murdoch.
0:07:13 > 0:07:17Stuffed as it is with references to world events.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20Billy Joel with We Didn't Start The Fire.
0:07:20 > 0:07:22AUDIENCE CHEERS
0:07:41 > 0:07:44# Harry Truman, Doris Day, Red China, Johnnie Ray,
0:07:44 > 0:07:48# South Pacific, Walter Winchell, Joe DiMaggio
0:07:48 > 0:07:51# Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Studebaker, Television
0:07:51 > 0:07:54# North Korea, South Korea, Marilyn Monroe
0:08:01 > 0:08:04# Rosenbergs, H-Bomb, Sugar Ray, Panmunjom
0:08:04 > 0:08:07# Brando, The King And I, and The Catcher In The Rye
0:08:07 > 0:08:11# Eisenhower, Vaccine, England's got a new queen
0:08:11 > 0:08:14# Marciano, Liberace, Santayana goodbye
0:08:14 > 0:08:17# We didn't start the fire
0:08:17 > 0:08:21# It was always burning since the world's been turning
0:08:21 > 0:08:24# We didn't start the fire
0:08:24 > 0:08:28# No, we didn't light it, but we tried to fight it
0:08:28 > 0:08:31# Joseph Stalin, Malenkov, Nasser and Prokofiev
0:08:31 > 0:08:34# Rockefeller, Campanella, Communist Bloc
0:08:34 > 0:08:38# Roy Cohn, Juan Peron, Toscanini, Dacron
0:08:38 > 0:08:41# Dien Bien Phu Falls, Rock Around The Clock
0:08:41 > 0:08:44# Einstein, James Dean, Brooklyn's got a winning team
0:08:44 > 0:08:47# Davy Crockett, Peter Pan, Elvis Presley, Disneyland
0:08:47 > 0:08:51# Bardot, Budapest, Alabama, Khrushchev
0:08:51 > 0:08:54# Princess Grace, Peyton Place, Trouble in the Suez
0:08:54 > 0:08:57# We didn't start the fire
0:08:57 > 0:09:01# It was always burning since the world's been turning
0:09:01 > 0:09:04# We didn't start the fire
0:09:04 > 0:09:07# No, we didn't light it, but we tried to fight it
0:09:07 > 0:09:11# Little Rock, Pasternak, Mickey Mantle, Kerouac
0:09:11 > 0:09:14# Sputnik, Zhou Enlai, Bridge On The River Kwai
0:09:14 > 0:09:17# Lebanon, Charles de Gaulle, California baseball
0:09:17 > 0:09:21# Starkweather, Homicide, Children of Thalidomide
0:09:21 > 0:09:24GUITAR SOLO
0:09:24 > 0:09:27# Buddy Holly, Ben-Hur, Space Monkey, Mafia
0:09:27 > 0:09:31# Hula Hoops, Castro, Edsel is a no-go
0:09:31 > 0:09:34# U-2, Syngman Rhee, payola and Kennedy
0:09:34 > 0:09:38# Chubby Checker, Psycho, Belgians in the Congo
0:09:38 > 0:09:40# We didn't start the fire
0:09:40 > 0:09:44# It was always burning since the world's been turning
0:09:44 > 0:09:47# We didn't start the fire
0:09:47 > 0:09:51# No, we didn't light it, but we tried to fight it
0:09:51 > 0:09:54# Hemingway, Eichmann, Stranger In A Strange Land
0:09:54 > 0:09:57# Dylan, Berlin, Bay of Pigs invasion
0:09:57 > 0:10:01# Lawrence of Arabia, British Beatlemania
0:10:01 > 0:10:04# Ole Miss, John Glenn, Liston beats Patterson
0:10:04 > 0:10:07# Pope Paul, Malcolm X, British politician sex
0:10:07 > 0:10:11# JFK blown away, what else do I have to say?
0:10:11 > 0:10:14# We didn't start the fire
0:10:14 > 0:10:17# It was always burning since the world's been turning
0:10:17 > 0:10:20# We didn't start the fire
0:10:20 > 0:10:24# No, we didn't light it, but we tried to fight it
0:10:24 > 0:10:27# Birth control, Ho Chi Minh, Richard Nixon back again
0:10:27 > 0:10:31# Moonshot, Woodstock, Watergate, punk rock
0:10:31 > 0:10:34# Begin, Reagan, Palestine, terror on the airline
0:10:34 > 0:10:37# Ayatollahs in Iran, Russians in Afghanistan
0:10:37 > 0:10:41# Wheel of Fortune, Sally Ride, heavy metal suicide
0:10:41 > 0:10:44# Foreign debts, homeless Vets, AIDS, Crack, Bernie Goetz
0:10:44 > 0:10:47# Hypodermics on the shores, China's under martial law
0:10:47 > 0:10:51# Rock and Roller Cola wars, I can't take it any more
0:10:51 > 0:10:54# We didn't start the fire
0:10:54 > 0:10:57# It was always burning since the world's been turning
0:10:57 > 0:11:00# We didn't start the fire
0:11:00 > 0:11:02# But when we are gone
0:11:02 > 0:11:08# It will still burn on and on and on and on and on... #
0:11:08 > 0:11:11AUDIENCE CHEERS
0:11:12 > 0:11:16Now, one of our great, original TV personalities.
0:11:16 > 0:11:21Before Nigella, Gordon, Jamie, even Delia, there was
0:11:21 > 0:11:26only one person in charge in the kitchen - Fanny Cradock.
0:11:26 > 0:11:31Cross her and your goose was definitely cooked.
0:11:31 > 0:11:35I'm sure, like me, you've missed the abrasive style of this lady,
0:11:35 > 0:11:38here seen haranguing a leg of pork and a silent chef.
0:11:39 > 0:11:43Now, you see, I can say with absolute certainty that what
0:11:43 > 0:11:46I am going to get when I cut that...
0:11:46 > 0:11:50I needn't massacre the entire joint.
0:11:50 > 0:11:51And I am going to use my fingers.
0:11:51 > 0:11:54This is the only way I can show this directly to you.
0:11:54 > 0:11:55I am going to make absolutely certain.
0:11:55 > 0:11:58Oh, yes, I see, very well. Well, tell us.
0:11:58 > 0:12:01CRUNCHING
0:12:01 > 0:12:03Crunch, crunch, crunch. Crackling, you see?
0:12:03 > 0:12:07Let me throw you another piece, give you absolute confidence. Bingo.
0:12:07 > 0:12:08And bingo.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11And there it is. You can have those bits, too. Now go away.
0:12:11 > 0:12:14LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:12:17 > 0:12:19Ladies and gentlemen, Fanny Cradock.
0:12:19 > 0:12:23APPLAUSE
0:12:24 > 0:12:27- Fanny, you are welcome. - I'm very glad to be here. I love it.
0:12:27 > 0:12:30It was... The first television show we ever did was in here.
0:12:30 > 0:12:33- Really?- Johnnie and I together.
0:12:33 > 0:12:35Half an hour. Invited audience.
0:12:35 > 0:12:37And we were so scared.
0:12:37 > 0:12:40John was kicked in the small of the back to get us on.
0:12:40 > 0:12:42He said, "Go on, John, you silly B, you're on."
0:12:42 > 0:12:45- Yeah. - And he lurched onto television.- Yeah.
0:12:45 > 0:12:46We used to have invited audiences.
0:12:46 > 0:12:49These people come in without any invitation.
0:12:49 > 0:12:51I haven't asked them.
0:12:51 > 0:12:53- Yeah, but they are especially nice. - Well, they are.
0:12:53 > 0:12:54You will find them OK.
0:12:54 > 0:12:56Fanny, you brought me just a little...
0:12:56 > 0:12:59That is for the end of the programme, you gutsy so-and-so.
0:12:59 > 0:13:02LAUGHTER
0:13:02 > 0:13:05Fanny, am I expected to talk to you without eating here?
0:13:05 > 0:13:08- Oh, all right, we'll go on eating and talking together.- What have we got?
0:13:08 > 0:13:11- Well...- What is this?- I know what a sweet tooth you've got.- Yes, I do.
0:13:11 > 0:13:13Well, I have invented
0:13:13 > 0:13:16a way, an easy way, of making these
0:13:16 > 0:13:21puffballs of soft fruit, all soft fruits in turn.
0:13:21 > 0:13:26- Hm.- And they keep in freezers for, oh, months on end.
0:13:26 > 0:13:27And they can be eaten hot or cold.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30And they are bad for the figure. They are outrageous for the figure!
0:13:30 > 0:13:33- They couldn't be worse. - Luckily, I don't...
0:13:33 > 0:13:35- You know, I'm slim as a lamb. - I know, you're so slim.
0:13:35 > 0:13:37LAUGHTER
0:13:37 > 0:13:41Can you see over the top of your tum still?
0:13:41 > 0:13:44LAUGHTER
0:13:44 > 0:13:46There is not much to see over the top of my tum.
0:13:46 > 0:13:48LAUGHTER
0:13:48 > 0:13:51- Now, this is raspberries out of our own garden.- Yes.
0:13:51 > 0:13:56- And this is something Greek called pita paste.- Oh.- Or pita pastry.
0:13:56 > 0:13:58Is it difficult to make?
0:13:58 > 0:14:03- No, it is very, very easy.- Is it?- It isn't finished yet.- Isn't it?
0:14:03 > 0:14:05Oh. Lovely, thank you. Thank you.
0:14:05 > 0:14:09- Cos I've hardly had a thing since lunch.- I know, starved.
0:14:10 > 0:14:14Over the 20 years, you were the maitresse of cuisine, weren't you?
0:14:14 > 0:14:16Well, we went abroad.
0:14:16 > 0:14:20That marvellous style of teaching people how to cook.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23- And in fact, the Queen Mother complimented you, didn't she?- Yes.
0:14:23 > 0:14:25- How did you know about that? - Oh, I know plenty about you.
0:14:25 > 0:14:27She said... Eh?
0:14:27 > 0:14:29LAUGHTER
0:14:29 > 0:14:31She said, "In your opinion..."
0:14:31 > 0:14:33At the end of an interview, she said,
0:14:33 > 0:14:37"In your opinion, has the standard of cooking improved in this country?"
0:14:37 > 0:14:41And we both enthusiastically said, "Oh, enormously!"
0:14:41 > 0:14:44And we died. Because she turned with that inimitable smile of hers
0:14:44 > 0:14:47and said, "Yes, and in our opinion, you are responsible for it."
0:14:47 > 0:14:51And we stood there like a couple of codfish and forgot to bow and curtsy.
0:14:51 > 0:14:56Tell me, do think that the cooks are born rather than made?
0:14:56 > 0:14:58No.
0:14:58 > 0:15:02I think there is a feeling for food, a feeling for cookery.
0:15:04 > 0:15:07Which...is an impetus.
0:15:07 > 0:15:09I mean, what an awful lot of work.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12If you hear that expression, you know perfectly well you're going
0:15:12 > 0:15:14- to have a damn bad meal and a lazy cook.- Hm.
0:15:14 > 0:15:16- You see?- Yeah.
0:15:16 > 0:15:20- But you can make any woman cook. - Can you?- Oh, yes!
0:15:20 > 0:15:23What about a fella? It is not just women's work, surely.
0:15:25 > 0:15:29No, but I am more interested in women in cooking because...
0:15:29 > 0:15:31it's the absolute hub of the home.
0:15:33 > 0:15:35And that is a woman's too.
0:15:35 > 0:15:36I think...
0:15:38 > 0:15:40If you can't cook, you are a rotten wife.
0:15:40 > 0:15:43- LAUGHTER SHEEPISHLY:- So do I.
0:15:43 > 0:15:46LAUGHTER
0:15:46 > 0:15:50But just to be on the safe side, for when I was ill or in bed,
0:15:50 > 0:15:51with anything else, I...
0:15:51 > 0:15:54LAUGHTER
0:15:56 > 0:15:59I taught John to cook so that he could look after me.
0:15:59 > 0:16:02Now, you used to prepare quite elaborate dishes in your time.
0:16:02 > 0:16:04- Women don't have time nowadays. - Listen,
0:16:04 > 0:16:07I've had enough of this "in your time."
0:16:07 > 0:16:10I am not dead yet. There is plenty of life in me.
0:16:10 > 0:16:13- I'm coming back to cook some more on television, so there.- Yeah.
0:16:13 > 0:16:16But I mean, women don't have time these days for elaborate
0:16:16 > 0:16:18dishes and that, do they?
0:16:18 > 0:16:23And if this isn't one of your devious little workarounds
0:16:23 > 0:16:26to convenience food, I'll tell you straight out that there is
0:16:26 > 0:16:28only one convenience in convenience food,
0:16:28 > 0:16:30and that's the profit for the manufacturers.
0:16:30 > 0:16:32It is a load of muck.
0:16:32 > 0:16:35LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:16:35 > 0:16:38INAUDIBLE SPEECH
0:16:39 > 0:16:41Don't you start them without...
0:16:41 > 0:16:45I certainly will, they are my own mates. Aren't you?
0:16:45 > 0:16:47- AUDIENCE:- Yes! - Well, clear off then. Go on.
0:16:47 > 0:16:50- LAUGHTER - What about nouvelle cuisine, then?
0:16:50 > 0:16:51ANNOYED: What about it?
0:16:51 > 0:16:53LAUGHTER
0:16:53 > 0:16:56- I'm sorry I mentioned it. - Yeah. I should think you are.
0:16:56 > 0:16:59When are we going to get off cooking and talk about my new book?
0:16:59 > 0:17:01- I don't know, whenever you like. - Let's do it now.
0:17:01 > 0:17:03All right. What new book?
0:17:05 > 0:17:08It's called... You've led into it, bless your heart.
0:17:08 > 0:17:10It's called The Windsor Secret.
0:17:11 > 0:17:13And I wrote it five years ago.
0:17:14 > 0:17:16- And I couldn't publish it.- Why not?
0:17:16 > 0:17:19Because it is not nice to the Duchess of Windsor and I had to wait
0:17:19 > 0:17:22until she was dead. And it is the only time in my life
0:17:22 > 0:17:24I've ever waited for dead anybody's shoes.
0:17:24 > 0:17:27Because you honestly don't care much about people's feelings, do you?
0:17:27 > 0:17:31I mean, you've spoken out freely and forcefully in the past.
0:17:31 > 0:17:32Such as?
0:17:32 > 0:17:34LAUGHTER
0:17:34 > 0:17:36Well...
0:17:37 > 0:17:40I know you are great chum of Barbara Cartland,
0:17:40 > 0:17:43- but sometimes you haven't been all that kind about...- What, to Barbara?
0:17:43 > 0:17:45- Hm.- One of my best friends.- Yeah.
0:17:45 > 0:17:47Splendid woman!
0:17:47 > 0:17:48A bit overdone, but then so am I.
0:17:48 > 0:17:53LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:17:55 > 0:17:59Now, it's funny that Fanny should mention Barbara Cartland,
0:17:59 > 0:18:01cos that's who is up next.
0:18:01 > 0:18:03A vision in pink.
0:18:03 > 0:18:07Here is Dame Barbara getting into a right old ding-dong with
0:18:07 > 0:18:09fellow writer Jackie Collins.
0:18:09 > 0:18:11The fellow watching from the side is Ed Asner,
0:18:11 > 0:18:13from the old Lou Grant series.
0:18:13 > 0:18:16But all he really does is what I did,
0:18:16 > 0:18:17and what you should do -
0:18:17 > 0:18:19sit back,
0:18:19 > 0:18:20enjoy the fireworks.
0:18:23 > 0:18:24You don't seem to be losing any energy,
0:18:24 > 0:18:27you are onto your 14th novel.
0:18:27 > 0:18:28That's right.
0:18:28 > 0:18:29Extraordinary.
0:18:29 > 0:18:31Where does it all come from?
0:18:31 > 0:18:34Well, it comes from the idea
0:18:34 > 0:18:36that old people must keep working.
0:18:36 > 0:18:39I talked to Zsa Zsa Gabor's eighth husband the other day
0:18:39 > 0:18:42and I said, "How is Zsa Zsa?" "Oh, wonderful, 68."
0:18:42 > 0:18:43He said, "I'll tell you exactly -
0:18:43 > 0:18:47"she gets up at five clock every morning," nice for him, I thought,
0:18:47 > 0:18:49"and she swims for two hours
0:18:49 > 0:18:51"and then she is go, go, go all day."
0:18:51 > 0:18:54- Now, that is the answer - go, go, go all day.- Keep going.
0:18:54 > 0:18:55You have got to keep going.
0:18:55 > 0:18:59Once you sit down, begin to think about yourself, well, then you die.
0:19:00 > 0:19:03People die of boredom. Nobody ever died of old work.
0:19:03 > 0:19:07Yes, I know, but if you are as young as Jackie Collins, say,
0:19:07 > 0:19:09she doesn't have to do any rushing around. Or Ed Asner.
0:19:09 > 0:19:12- Well, no, they are living their... - When they get old, they can do it.
0:19:12 > 0:19:14Don't you see, we waste our old people.
0:19:14 > 0:19:18One of my great things is that we must use the brains,
0:19:18 > 0:19:22- the experience...- Oh, yes.- ..and the enormous expertise of the old people.
0:19:22 > 0:19:24We don't, we just shut them up in homes.
0:19:24 > 0:19:26Other countries have Granny and Grandpa there.
0:19:26 > 0:19:29And this is what is so exciting about my film because Lord Grade,
0:19:29 > 0:19:31you see, he was so clever.
0:19:31 > 0:19:36He's 80, but he's got the vision and the go of a young boy of 25.
0:19:36 > 0:19:42He's seen that to save this mess with the persiv...pervis...society -
0:19:42 > 0:19:43can't say that word.
0:19:43 > 0:19:47- Permissive.- Permissive society. - I don't blame you not saying that.
0:19:47 > 0:19:50I know, it's awful. But it has been simply ghastly.
0:19:50 > 0:19:52We've got to go back to the family,
0:19:52 > 0:19:54and that's what he's having a family film,
0:19:54 > 0:19:58and I mean the whole family - Granny, Grandpa, the children, everyone.
0:19:58 > 0:20:01- Is this Hazard Of Hearts?- Yes. - A new miniseries.
0:20:01 > 0:20:04No Cartland book has ever been made into a miniseries.
0:20:04 > 0:20:07No, because I was too pure, you see, and they all wanted something dirty
0:20:07 > 0:20:11and people rolling about naked on beds, and that isn't me, you see.
0:20:11 > 0:20:14And so now at last, Lord Grade has realised, we've got
0:20:14 > 0:20:16to go back to the family to save the world.
0:20:16 > 0:20:17I mean, look at the mess it's in.
0:20:17 > 0:20:19Look what this society has done.
0:20:19 > 0:20:22Look at the rush. We've got AIDS, we've got... Everything's awful.
0:20:22 > 0:20:26We've got children more worse treated than they've ever been in history,
0:20:26 > 0:20:28and I read a lot of history.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30And we've got to do something, all of us -
0:20:30 > 0:20:33you and I and the whole lot - we've got to try and do something about it.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36I was trying to persuade Jackie to write a cleaner book.
0:20:36 > 0:20:38I want to know where Zsa Zsa goes every day.
0:20:38 > 0:20:40If she's go, go, go, where does she go?
0:20:40 > 0:20:43- She's looking for another husband? - Two hours in a swimming pool...
0:20:43 > 0:20:46Oh, I've got a wonderful story about that! Can I tell it very quickly?
0:20:46 > 0:20:48- Certainly, yeah.- Well, Eva Gabor,
0:20:48 > 0:20:51who is her sister, her younger sister, told me this story.
0:20:51 > 0:20:53She said, "You know, darling, Zsa Zsa and I,
0:20:53 > 0:20:55"we're not great friends.
0:20:55 > 0:20:57"But it's funny because sometimes people think I'm Zsa Zsa.
0:20:57 > 0:20:59"And I swim in my pool every day naked.
0:20:59 > 0:21:03"And I have a big Hungarian rear end," she said.
0:21:03 > 0:21:06"So one day, I'm swimming up and down naked and I see these guys
0:21:06 > 0:21:09"and they're waving, they're working on a building, and they say,
0:21:09 > 0:21:10"'Hiya, Zsa Zsa.'"
0:21:10 > 0:21:13Oh, no, they said, "'Hiya, Eva.' And I said, 'No, no, darling, Zsa Zsa.'"
0:21:13 > 0:21:17THEY LAUGH No, but the point is, it is
0:21:17 > 0:21:21a question of old people sitting down and just sitting and feeling ill.
0:21:21 > 0:21:24You see, I've done an awful lot of work with old people.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27You know, I had a Government enquiry once into the conditions
0:21:27 > 0:21:28and housing of old people,
0:21:28 > 0:21:31and I think we're so stupid to miss
0:21:31 > 0:21:34so much of what they can give us still.
0:21:34 > 0:21:36- Hear, hear - I agree. - And apart from that, we've got
0:21:36 > 0:21:39to do something about the whole country, you know we have.
0:21:39 > 0:21:43We've got to get away from all this awful, terrible... It's evil, really.
0:21:43 > 0:21:45- COLLINS:- What?
0:21:45 > 0:21:48The books that you write, quite frankly.
0:21:48 > 0:21:50LAUGHTER
0:21:50 > 0:21:52APPLAUSE
0:21:56 > 0:21:59Have you ever thought of the effects it has on young people?
0:21:59 > 0:22:01- Yes, they love it, every moment of it.- I know...
0:22:01 > 0:22:03- They write me letters... - ..but that's what's wrong!
0:22:03 > 0:22:05"I was reading it under the covers and..."
0:22:05 > 0:22:07Let me tell you, there's room for both of us.
0:22:07 > 0:22:09There's room for your books, which I'm sure are terrific
0:22:09 > 0:22:12and you have huge fans everywhere. And there's room for mine,
0:22:12 > 0:22:15which are a little more racy and people enjoy reading.
0:22:15 > 0:22:17Yes, I quite agree they enjoy it,
0:22:17 > 0:22:19but don't you think it has helped the perverts?
0:22:19 > 0:22:20Oh!
0:22:22 > 0:22:24If there's a pervert out there watching me,
0:22:24 > 0:22:26I didn't do it intentionally.
0:22:26 > 0:22:29You have all this awful abuse of children.
0:22:29 > 0:22:31All that comes from a permissive society.
0:22:31 > 0:22:33Permissive society started in 1970,
0:22:33 > 0:22:36and everybody said, "You're the Queen of Romance,
0:22:36 > 0:22:38"we're all going to have romance," but they didn't.
0:22:38 > 0:22:42The publishers were told to write like Barbara Cartland with pornography.
0:22:42 > 0:22:45I went out to America, and there were all the - I was going to say
0:22:45 > 0:22:48girls - middle-aged women all writing things that they knew nothing about.
0:22:48 > 0:22:50Most of them hadn't been kissed.
0:22:50 > 0:22:52This is really true, nobody has every come up to me and said,
0:22:52 > 0:22:55"You must write like Barbara Cartland,
0:22:55 > 0:22:56"but put in a bit of pornography."
0:22:56 > 0:22:58No, no, cos you've done it on your own,
0:22:58 > 0:23:01without any need of Barbara Cartland. There's no Barbara Cartland in it.
0:23:01 > 0:23:03The point is... No, listen.
0:23:03 > 0:23:05There's a question I've been meaning to ask you.
0:23:05 > 0:23:06I have to ask this question
0:23:06 > 0:23:10because a newspaper did a piece on Barbara once and a piece on me
0:23:10 > 0:23:13and Barbara was given The Stud to read, the book The Stud to read,
0:23:13 > 0:23:15and she said, "It was a horrible, disgusting book.
0:23:15 > 0:23:17"I stayed up all night reading it."
0:23:17 > 0:23:18I want to know what she was doing all night.
0:23:18 > 0:23:22- No, I didn't say that at all. What I said was...- You did, it's in print.
0:23:22 > 0:23:23It's in print.
0:23:23 > 0:23:26What I said was, I thought it was a horrible book because it was
0:23:26 > 0:23:28so terribly improper.
0:23:28 > 0:23:32And, you see, I worry terribly about the people who follow us.
0:23:32 > 0:23:35You know people are influenced and you know that nobody really has
0:23:35 > 0:23:39worked out what happens when those sort of things go into the brain.
0:23:39 > 0:23:42- You know what you said earlier, you said...- Wait a minute.
0:23:42 > 0:23:44When things are picked up by the brain,
0:23:44 > 0:23:46it's like an encyclopaedia, and you can't get rid of it.
0:23:46 > 0:23:50It's rather like... People say, "The television, you can turn it off."
0:23:50 > 0:23:52You can't, you've seen it.
0:23:52 > 0:23:55They needn't go out and buy one of your books or mine,
0:23:55 > 0:23:56but on the television,
0:23:56 > 0:23:58it's all covered - you're on the television too.
0:23:58 > 0:24:00They have... You've seen it
0:24:00 > 0:24:03and you can't get away from it, it's in your mind.
0:24:03 > 0:24:05Once you've seen something, it remains there.
0:24:05 > 0:24:07You say, "I won't think about it..."
0:24:07 > 0:24:09Barbara, you said something very interesting before.
0:24:09 > 0:24:11And excuse me, Terry, I do know this is your show.
0:24:11 > 0:24:14LAUGHTER
0:24:14 > 0:24:17I'm always... I have to say, you mustn't really apologise for that,
0:24:17 > 0:24:20cos I really do love to have a discussion going between guests.
0:24:20 > 0:24:22What I wanted to say, Barbara said something to you...
0:24:22 > 0:24:25- Terry...- I'm not...
0:24:25 > 0:24:28LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:24:32 > 0:24:35- Barbara said something...- We'll have a conversation afterwards.
0:24:35 > 0:24:37- OK, Barbara.- Barbara said something very interesting earlier -
0:24:37 > 0:24:40"All these naked people rolling round on beds, it's disgusting."
0:24:40 > 0:24:42Well, I really don't think there's anything
0:24:42 > 0:24:45disgusting about naked people rolling around on beds,
0:24:45 > 0:24:48I thought that is what you are supposed to do when you're married.
0:24:48 > 0:24:50- No, listen.- How do you know? - Listen, that isn't love.
0:24:50 > 0:24:53Love is something quite different to what we have had.
0:24:53 > 0:24:54We've had sex, sex, sex.
0:24:54 > 0:24:57When the Romantic era came in, everybody said,
0:24:57 > 0:24:59"Now we can have every sort of sex."
0:24:59 > 0:25:01There's nothing about love in it at all.
0:25:01 > 0:25:05It was just animal - if you like -
0:25:05 > 0:25:08making...you know, intercourse.
0:25:08 > 0:25:12- Have you read Hollywood Husbands? - No, I wouldn't want to, thank you.
0:25:12 > 0:25:14- Have you read Hollywood Wives? - I've seen...
0:25:14 > 0:25:16It's difficult to criticise when you haven't...
0:25:16 > 0:25:19I have criticised on The Stud and I've read
0:25:19 > 0:25:22the things on your books and the advertisements you put in America.
0:25:22 > 0:25:24I put in America advertisements?
0:25:24 > 0:25:27- Yes, you put Barbara Cartland with iron knickers.- I...!
0:25:27 > 0:25:29LAUGHTER
0:25:29 > 0:25:32- You...- That was very funny.
0:25:32 > 0:25:36I'm innocent! I am an innocent party here.
0:25:38 > 0:25:42A row over romance there, but there will be no arguing
0:25:42 > 0:25:45over this next trio and their romantic credentials.
0:25:45 > 0:25:48We have got three of the finest operatic talents
0:25:48 > 0:25:50of all time for you.
0:25:50 > 0:25:52In a moment, there is Luciano Pavarotti
0:25:52 > 0:25:54followed by Placido Domingo.
0:25:54 > 0:25:56But first, very early on in The Wogan Show,
0:25:56 > 0:26:02here's Jose Carreras singing Tonight, from West Side Story.
0:26:02 > 0:26:05ORCHESTRA STARTS TO PLAY
0:26:19 > 0:26:22# Tonight, tonight
0:26:22 > 0:26:25# Won't be just any night
0:26:25 > 0:26:28# Tonight there will be no
0:26:28 > 0:26:31# Morning star
0:26:31 > 0:26:34# Tonight, tonight
0:26:34 > 0:26:37# I'll see my love tonight
0:26:37 > 0:26:44# And for us stars will stop where they are
0:26:44 > 0:26:49# Tonight The minutes seem like hours
0:26:49 > 0:26:52# The hours go so slowly
0:26:52 > 0:26:57# And still the sky is light
0:26:57 > 0:27:00# Oh, moon, grow bright
0:27:00 > 0:27:06# And make this endless day endless night
0:27:06 > 0:27:09# Tonight
0:27:38 > 0:27:40# Today
0:27:40 > 0:27:45# The minutes seemed like hours
0:27:45 > 0:27:50# The hours go so slowly
0:27:50 > 0:27:57# And still the sky is light
0:27:57 > 0:28:00# Oh, moon, grow bright
0:28:00 > 0:28:06# And make this endless day endless night
0:28:06 > 0:28:13# Tonight! #
0:28:13 > 0:28:17APPLAUSE
0:28:23 > 0:28:28Fantastic stuff. Now, Pavarotti never did sing on the show.
0:28:28 > 0:28:30He always needed to rest his voice.
0:28:30 > 0:28:34But that didn't stop him delighting us with his presence
0:28:34 > 0:28:37and with a few nice insights into his life.
0:28:37 > 0:28:41He did, however, insist on a table to cover his generous proportions
0:28:41 > 0:28:47and a chair that was higher than mine so that I could look up to him.
0:28:47 > 0:28:49Where did that... What they call a voice from heaven,
0:28:49 > 0:28:51where did that come from?
0:28:51 > 0:28:53From heaven.
0:28:53 > 0:28:57No wonder they call it that. You have to guard your voice, don't you?
0:28:57 > 0:28:58- Carefully.- Constantly.
0:28:58 > 0:29:01I think I am
0:29:01 > 0:29:03a prisoner of my voice.
0:29:03 > 0:29:04And, uh...
0:29:04 > 0:29:06I am treating my voice like
0:29:06 > 0:29:10a very nice, gentle and sophisticated
0:29:10 > 0:29:12and spoiled lady.
0:29:12 > 0:29:14And sometimes... HE LAUGHS
0:29:14 > 0:29:17But she repays me very well.
0:29:17 > 0:29:21- Many of them don't. - LAUGHTER
0:29:21 > 0:29:24Sometimes, they say,
0:29:24 > 0:29:27"You, singer, are temperamental.
0:29:27 > 0:29:29"You, singer, are here or there."
0:29:29 > 0:29:31They do not understand that what we do,
0:29:31 > 0:29:34we do most of the time for the voice.
0:29:34 > 0:29:39Your mother. Your mother is your greatest fan, perhaps.
0:29:39 > 0:29:40Your father too.
0:29:40 > 0:29:44But your mother only saw you in person last year, didn't she?
0:29:44 > 0:29:47I mean, she has always stayed away from your concerts.
0:29:47 > 0:29:51She had the courage... My mother was born with a heart problem
0:29:51 > 0:29:52and...
0:29:54 > 0:29:57They always try to keep her away from my concerts, myself too.
0:29:57 > 0:29:59I try to keep her away.
0:29:59 > 0:30:02And finally, last year, she said,
0:30:02 > 0:30:04"I don't care, I'm 75.
0:30:04 > 0:30:07"If I die, I will die more happy
0:30:07 > 0:30:11"because I have heard my son in person."
0:30:11 > 0:30:14And she came, and she feel OK. She did feel very well.
0:30:14 > 0:30:18- A little, you know...- Emotional. - Emotional, very much.
0:30:18 > 0:30:22And there was more emotion in her, and I say, "What am I doing now?
0:30:22 > 0:30:26"Let me not do a big effect here or I will kill my mother."
0:30:26 > 0:30:28LAUGHTER
0:30:28 > 0:30:31- So I don't think... - That's awful. That's awful.
0:30:31 > 0:30:34- Don't sing your best cos you might kill your mother.- Yes.
0:30:34 > 0:30:36I don't think it was my best concert, that.
0:30:36 > 0:30:39That was a concert made for the heart of my mother.
0:30:39 > 0:30:42- A very nervous concert, yeah.- Yeah.
0:30:42 > 0:30:45Do you still enjoy singing? Do you still get pleasure from it?
0:30:45 > 0:30:50If I don't enjoy it immensely, I will stop.
0:30:50 > 0:30:52I really enjoy it very much.
0:30:52 > 0:30:56Like I say, I like the contact with the people
0:30:56 > 0:30:58and I like the contact with my audience.
0:30:58 > 0:31:02And more than anything, I thank God because he gave me
0:31:02 > 0:31:04the opportunity to work
0:31:04 > 0:31:07in music with something...
0:31:07 > 0:31:12it doesn't need any translation between country.
0:31:12 > 0:31:15We went to Russia, I remember, three years ago,
0:31:15 > 0:31:18and we have an interpreter to do everything,
0:31:18 > 0:31:20except when we begin to do music.
0:31:20 > 0:31:22And that was the biggest message.
0:31:22 > 0:31:27They opened, all of the people, for us. And that was
0:31:27 > 0:31:31something that politics probably cannot do and music did very easy.
0:31:31 > 0:31:33Do you sing in the bath?
0:31:33 > 0:31:35I don't, no.
0:31:35 > 0:31:37I don't.
0:31:37 > 0:31:42Unless I go there to make the shower come...
0:31:42 > 0:31:44Humid. You know humidif...
0:31:44 > 0:31:47And then I try to sing to see if it's better.
0:31:47 > 0:31:49But I don't sing in the bath.
0:31:49 > 0:31:51I'm not a fanatic of singing.
0:31:51 > 0:31:52Why?
0:31:52 > 0:31:54No, I just wondered.
0:31:54 > 0:31:56Anybody who wants to get a free concert could
0:31:56 > 0:31:58- hang around outside your bedroom.- No.
0:31:58 > 0:32:00Music is not your only passion, though, is it?
0:32:00 > 0:32:02I mean, we have been talking about music.
0:32:02 > 0:32:04You have other passions, haven't you?
0:32:04 > 0:32:09If you are talking of passion, and I give to this word the right meaning,
0:32:09 > 0:32:11I think music is the only one.
0:32:11 > 0:32:15But I have a hobby. And the hobby is to paint.
0:32:15 > 0:32:19And a hobby is to play tennis. And a hobby is going on the horse.
0:32:19 > 0:32:21The other passion that I have is life.
0:32:21 > 0:32:25I like life very much, and you can see, I mean...
0:32:25 > 0:32:29If you know me very well, you can see that I like life very much.
0:32:29 > 0:32:31And you still follow football?
0:32:31 > 0:32:35- Cos you were nearly a footballer, weren't you?- Well...
0:32:35 > 0:32:39I was a football player until 19.
0:32:39 > 0:32:40I was almost good.
0:32:40 > 0:32:47I think I was ten pounds too much to be good, really. Just that too much.
0:32:48 > 0:32:52And then when I begin to sing, I put a scarf around my neck,
0:32:52 > 0:32:58I give away my shoes to a kid - he was much better than me.
0:32:58 > 0:33:01And he became a football player, in fact.
0:33:01 > 0:33:03And...
0:33:03 > 0:33:06I stopped to make gymnastics, to make everything.
0:33:06 > 0:33:10I went on eating the same way than before and I gained constantly,
0:33:10 > 0:33:12little by little, a lot.
0:33:12 > 0:33:14And that is the reason why I'm like that.
0:33:14 > 0:33:17But before, I was much smaller than you. Yes, much...
0:33:19 > 0:33:21Yes, much smaller than you.
0:33:21 > 0:33:24Much smaller. I was a real athlete.
0:33:25 > 0:33:29- I am a bit athletic myself, you know.- I mean football.
0:33:29 > 0:33:31- You have to jump high and... - Keep fit, yes.
0:33:31 > 0:33:34For 90 minutes, you have really to run.
0:33:34 > 0:33:38I think it's one of the most intelligent sports.
0:33:38 > 0:33:41But I mean, you're a picture of ruddy good health.
0:33:41 > 0:33:46- I wouldn't like to see you lose any weight.- Me too. I would like.
0:33:46 > 0:33:49- Would you?- Yeah.
0:33:49 > 0:33:53- Would your voice suffer if you lost weight?- I don't think so.
0:33:53 > 0:33:56- No, I don't think so.- So, what do you have to give up to lose weight?
0:33:56 > 0:33:58- Food.- Food.
0:33:58 > 0:34:00LAUGHTER
0:34:00 > 0:34:03As you say in Italy, food. Luciano Pavarotti.
0:34:03 > 0:34:07APPLAUSE
0:34:14 > 0:34:18And now, some magic from a marvellous Placido Domingo,
0:34:18 > 0:34:22who treated us to a stirring performance of the song Granada.
0:34:35 > 0:34:38# Granada
0:34:38 > 0:34:43# Tierra sonada por mi
0:34:43 > 0:34:47# Mi cantar se vuelve gitano
0:34:47 > 0:34:51# Cuando es para ti
0:34:51 > 0:34:54# Mi cantar
0:34:54 > 0:35:01# Hecho de fantasia
0:35:01 > 0:35:04# Mi cantar
0:35:04 > 0:35:10# Flor de melancolia
0:35:10 > 0:35:17# Que yo te vengo
0:35:17 > 0:35:23# A dar
0:35:25 > 0:35:27# Granada
0:35:27 > 0:35:30# Tierra ensangrentada
0:35:30 > 0:35:34# En tardes de toros
0:35:37 > 0:35:41# Mujer que conserva el embrujo
0:35:41 > 0:35:46# De los ojos moros
0:35:48 > 0:35:50# De sueno rebelde
0:35:50 > 0:35:53# Y gitana cubierta
0:35:53 > 0:35:57# De flores
0:35:57 > 0:36:00# Y beso tu boca
0:36:00 > 0:36:04# De grana jugosa manzana
0:36:04 > 0:36:11# Que me habla de amores
0:36:12 > 0:36:14# Granada
0:36:14 > 0:36:17# Manola cantada
0:36:17 > 0:36:23# En coplas preciosas
0:36:23 > 0:36:28# No tengo otra cosa que darte
0:36:28 > 0:36:34# Que un ramo de rosas
0:36:36 > 0:36:40# De rosas de suave fragancia
0:36:40 > 0:36:43# Que le dieran marco
0:36:43 > 0:36:49# A la Virgen Morena
0:36:49 > 0:36:53# Granada
0:36:53 > 0:36:59# Tu tierra esta llena
0:36:59 > 0:37:01# De lindas mujeres
0:37:01 > 0:37:07# De sangre y de sol
0:37:41 > 0:37:44# Granada
0:37:44 > 0:37:48# Tu tierra esta llena
0:37:48 > 0:37:51# De lindas mujeres
0:37:51 > 0:37:55# De sangre y de
0:37:55 > 0:38:00# Sol! #
0:38:00 > 0:38:04APPLAUSE
0:38:15 > 0:38:18And finally, one of the most well-received guests we ever had
0:38:18 > 0:38:21on The Wogan Show - writer, raconteur
0:38:21 > 0:38:24and all-round delight - Quentin Crisp, self-styled,
0:38:24 > 0:38:27naked civil servant who came on after
0:38:27 > 0:38:29an appearance by the cricketer Viv Richards,
0:38:29 > 0:38:34which explains the sporting angle that we start off with.
0:38:34 > 0:38:38Did you ever play cricket? Are you...are you a sporting man?
0:38:38 > 0:38:41I wouldn't describe myself as a sporting man,
0:38:41 > 0:38:46but I was forced to play cricket at school.
0:38:46 > 0:38:50- Did you enjoy it? - I hated every moment of it.
0:38:50 > 0:38:53What about America, though?
0:38:53 > 0:38:55I mean, do you play any sports now that you live in America?
0:38:55 > 0:38:57American football, anything like that?
0:38:57 > 0:39:03Oh, no, now I'm happily beyond the point where anyone can expect
0:39:03 > 0:39:06any activity of me whatsoever.
0:39:06 > 0:39:10LAUGHTER
0:39:10 > 0:39:15You have... You've lived in America for the last six years.
0:39:15 > 0:39:17How do we look from over there?
0:39:17 > 0:39:21What's your perspective on Britain from over there?
0:39:21 > 0:39:25Well, it looks nice...from over there.
0:39:25 > 0:39:28But then... That's an odd thing to say.
0:39:28 > 0:39:33But it is very different. America is very different.
0:39:33 > 0:39:36England is quieter,
0:39:36 > 0:39:39cosier, more restful.
0:39:39 > 0:39:45America is more vigorous and more ambitious.
0:39:45 > 0:39:50But also, of course, Americans are very, very friendly.
0:39:50 > 0:39:54You see, in England, you have to make friends.
0:39:54 > 0:39:57It's very tiring. LAUGHTER
0:39:57 > 0:40:01And when you've made them, you get stuck with them.
0:40:01 > 0:40:02Which is more tiring.
0:40:02 > 0:40:06But in America, you never get stuck with anybody.
0:40:06 > 0:40:09LAUGHTER
0:40:09 > 0:40:12Three weeks is a meaningful relationship.
0:40:14 > 0:40:17That's what you like, you don't like long-lasting relationships.
0:40:17 > 0:40:19No, they're worrying.
0:40:21 > 0:40:22You were...
0:40:22 > 0:40:26Remembering The Naked Civil Servant, your book, you were given
0:40:26 > 0:40:31a rough time over here when you lived here in your 20s and your 30s.
0:40:31 > 0:40:34Do you think you'd have had a happier time now
0:40:34 > 0:40:37if you were growing up here now, if you were in your 20s now?
0:40:37 > 0:40:40- Would it be different?- Oh, yes, my life would be much easier now.
0:40:40 > 0:40:42- Happier?- Oh, yes.
0:40:42 > 0:40:47- Why do you think that?- Well, because anything goes. You see,
0:40:47 > 0:40:52happiness... Life, the world has fallen into the hands of the young.
0:40:52 > 0:40:54See, when I...
0:40:54 > 0:40:58There were no teenagers when I was young.
0:40:58 > 0:41:02You were a dear little thing till you were about ten years old
0:41:02 > 0:41:05and then there was an embarrassed silence
0:41:05 > 0:41:07until you came out the other end.
0:41:09 > 0:41:11For one thing, you had no money.
0:41:11 > 0:41:15There could never have been a teenage market.
0:41:15 > 0:41:18Because no teenagers had any money to spend.
0:41:18 > 0:41:21Do you think people would have been more tolerant of the way you
0:41:21 > 0:41:25- behave and the way you dress? - Oh, yes. Now, what... I mean,
0:41:25 > 0:41:28in New Y... I live on the Lower East Side.
0:41:28 > 0:41:33There is nothing you can do or wear or say that would make you
0:41:33 > 0:41:38seem remarkable. There are people with rocking horse hairdos.
0:41:38 > 0:41:40The ends of their hair are gold
0:41:40 > 0:41:45and the middle of their hair is green and the roots are black.
0:41:45 > 0:41:48And nobody is taking the faintest notice.
0:41:50 > 0:41:52That doesn't please them, does it?
0:41:52 > 0:41:57Well... I don't know whether it pleases them. I worry...
0:41:57 > 0:42:00The punk movement began in England,
0:42:00 > 0:42:02but the sad thing is,
0:42:02 > 0:42:06the punk movement is a hostile movement.
0:42:06 > 0:42:10The punk people are not happy. And that worries me.
0:42:10 > 0:42:15Because if you can do anything, if you can say anything, if you can wear
0:42:15 > 0:42:22anything, surely your attitude toward the world should be benign, friendly.
0:42:22 > 0:42:25Yes, but surely if you're allowed to do anything you like,
0:42:25 > 0:42:29then there's no incentive to do anything.
0:42:29 > 0:42:34There is if you make chains for yourself.
0:42:34 > 0:42:37When the chains are not put on you by others,
0:42:37 > 0:42:42you have to exercise a certain amount of discipline.
0:42:42 > 0:42:47So you have to try and invent a way of going on, a way of living,
0:42:47 > 0:42:51a way of speaking, dressing that represents you.
0:42:53 > 0:42:55And that is your discipline.
0:42:55 > 0:42:59And that tells you where to go, what to do, how to live.
0:42:59 > 0:43:01How would you describe yourself?
0:43:01 > 0:43:06Do you think of yourself...do you see yourself...? Do you feel happy?
0:43:06 > 0:43:08Oh, yes, I am happy now.
0:43:08 > 0:43:13On my passport, it says that I'm a writer,
0:43:13 > 0:43:18but really I'm a cross between an evangelist and a clown.
0:43:18 > 0:43:20LAUGHTER
0:43:20 > 0:43:22Where does the evangelism come in?
0:43:22 > 0:43:25As you just said, people should do whatever they want to do.
0:43:25 > 0:43:29That's right. I only understand happiness.
0:43:29 > 0:43:34And all I can do is tell the people of America how to be happy.
0:43:35 > 0:43:37And there, we end.
0:43:37 > 0:43:41We hope you'll agree, it was a rather...agreeable selection.
0:43:41 > 0:43:43There's plenty more where they came from, too.
0:43:43 > 0:43:46So make sure you join me again next time.
0:43:46 > 0:43:49Come on, I don't want to be talking to myself.