Carwyn

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0:00:28 > 0:00:31- Make the most of this moment, - my son.

0:00:31 > 0:00:33- You might never get another chance.

0:00:36 > 0:00:44- Carwyn James died in an - Amsterdam hotel on January 10, 1983

0:00:51 > 0:00:54- A man past fifty sees clearly...

0:00:54 > 0:00:58- ..the people and community - that shaped his life.

0:01:06 > 0:01:10- A man past fifty asks himself...

0:01:14 > 0:01:17- .."What the hell am I doing here?"

0:01:35 > 0:01:38- A man past fifty sees clearly...

0:01:42 > 0:01:45- ..the people and community - that shaped his life.

0:01:52 > 0:01:54- Nothing remains today - in the back of the mind...

0:01:55 > 0:02:01- ..except family, neighbourhood, - sacrifice and man's suffering.

0:02:03 > 0:02:05- Man's suffering.

0:02:29 > 0:02:34- I'd never seen anyone like him and - we'll never see his like again...

0:02:34 > 0:02:36- ..as a rugby coach.

0:02:36 > 0:02:38- Think about it. - It's a thinking game.

0:02:39 > 0:02:43- Boys, think on the field, - I can't think for you. Off you go.

0:02:43 > 0:02:47- Like birds, out you go to soar.

0:02:49 > 0:02:52- It was never a job for Carwyn.

0:02:53 > 0:02:55- It was a life.

0:02:58 > 0:03:01- They say life is what you make it.

0:03:02 > 0:03:04- Not with everybody.

0:03:08 > 0:03:12- There is evidence to suggest that - Carwyn kept a diary of his thoughts.

0:03:12 > 0:03:17- The book has never been seen.

0:03:17 > 0:03:28- The words in this programme are - pure imagination based on research.

0:03:43 > 0:03:45- Why was I so lonely?

0:03:47 > 0:03:49- HE COUGHS

0:03:53 > 0:03:55- Damn it all.

0:03:57 > 0:04:00- So lonely right from the very start.

0:04:05 > 0:04:08- The family's soul was in Ceredigion.

0:04:08 > 0:04:10- They moved to Carmarthenshire...

0:04:11 > 0:04:13- ..to earn money - by digging for black gold.

0:04:13 > 0:04:19- I was born and raised in Cefneithin - but my roots were in Rhydlewis.

0:04:21 > 0:04:26- Visiting there during the summer - was like reaching the Promised Land.

0:04:26 > 0:04:30- Reaching Moelon, - the farm where Mam was raised.

0:04:30 > 0:04:33- Reviving friendships - with the Rhydlewis boys...

0:04:33 > 0:04:36- ..and challenging them - to take the ball from me.

0:04:37 > 0:04:40- "We might as well tackle the wind."

0:04:42 > 0:04:46- Remembering carrying the warm hay - and wheat to the rickyard.

0:04:47 > 0:04:50- Far from the shadow - of the black pyramids...

0:04:50 > 0:04:55- ..the screech of the hooter and the - sudden wail of the ambulance siren.

0:05:01 > 0:05:03- But who would I be - without Cefneithin?

0:05:03 > 0:05:06- Without the primary school - and Gwendraeth.

0:05:06 > 0:05:09- Without the rugby fields - and the coal mines.

0:05:10 > 0:05:13- Without sharing a home - with Eilonwy and Gwen...

0:05:13 > 0:05:16- ..and Dewi, my big brother.

0:05:19 > 0:05:23- Carwyn was born - in Cefneithin in 1929.

0:05:25 > 0:05:30- Dewi James - Brother

0:05:33 > 0:05:37- He was small. Very small.

0:05:37 > 0:05:39- He had a light complexion.

0:05:39 > 0:05:43- He didn't say much - but he was very thoughtful.

0:05:43 > 0:05:47- I thought he'd grow up - to be a great man.

0:05:48 > 0:05:50- The interest in rugby grew slowly.

0:05:51 > 0:05:55- He was handicapped in rugby - because he was so small.

0:05:56 > 0:05:59- Our garden and the rugby pitch...

0:06:00 > 0:06:02- ..were side-by-side.

0:06:02 > 0:06:07- He'd sit on the fence silently.

0:06:07 > 0:06:08- He just watched.

0:06:09 > 0:06:13- He took everything in.

0:06:13 > 0:06:16- He listened intently.

0:06:16 > 0:06:19- He was a good listener - throughout his life.

0:06:20 > 0:06:24- That was one of his secrets.

0:06:24 > 0:06:26- He listened.

0:06:28 > 0:06:30- I'm not saying - he was the favourite child.

0:06:31 > 0:06:34- Oh, no, we were equal there...

0:06:36 > 0:06:38- ..but I've lived in his shadow.

0:06:40 > 0:06:42- Unfortunately.

0:06:48 > 0:06:50- The pain I'm feeling now.

0:06:50 > 0:06:52- It started then.

0:06:59 > 0:07:02- Why did you go to the prayer meeting - at such a young age?

0:07:03 > 0:07:05- Listening to an old man - ranting about sin...

0:07:06 > 0:07:08- ..whilst you heard - the other boys playing outside.

0:07:12 > 0:07:14- But you wanted to be different.

0:07:16 > 0:07:18- Only you and the wind knew why.

0:07:20 > 0:07:23- That's why - you were so painfully lonely.

0:07:26 > 0:07:28- I am a man in morbid pain.

0:07:35 > 0:07:38- I went to the Gwendraeth in '44.

0:07:38 > 0:07:42- Carwyn was there. I'd watch him - side-stepping during break time.

0:07:43 > 0:07:45- We became good friends.

0:07:48 > 0:07:52- Sir John Meurig Thomas - School Friend

0:07:52 > 0:07:56- He was very happy. - He was mischievous.

0:07:57 > 0:07:59- He was always cracking jokes.

0:07:59 > 0:08:02- He was a good man - to be in his company.

0:08:03 > 0:08:06- Yes, he was very popular...

0:08:07 > 0:08:09- ..with the girls.

0:08:09 > 0:08:12- He was a handsome man - and quite a character.

0:08:13 > 0:08:15- Around the dinner table, he'd say...

0:08:15 > 0:08:19- .."Look at that girl over there. - What do you think of her?"

0:08:19 > 0:08:21- That's the type of thing he'd say.

0:08:23 > 0:08:25- A lot of people looked up to Carwyn.

0:08:26 > 0:08:29- He could do so many things.

0:08:30 > 0:08:34- He was a good cricketer - and a good footballer.

0:08:34 > 0:08:39- He played for - the Welsh Schoolboys team.

0:08:39 > 0:08:41- This was the year - before Cliff Morgan...

0:08:41 > 0:08:44- ..played for the Welsh Schoolboys.

0:08:47 > 0:08:51- Lance Roderick and Cyril Rogers - Cefneithin Rugby Club

0:08:52 > 0:08:58- I remember watching him play - for the Welsh Schoolboys in Neath.

0:08:58 > 0:09:02- They had letters - on the back of their shirts.

0:09:03 > 0:09:05- He was so good.

0:09:05 > 0:09:08- We'd look up to him - and try to emulate him.

0:09:08 > 0:09:12- If he side-stepped, - we'd try to side-step.

0:09:12 > 0:09:13- We were in Form 1...

0:09:14 > 0:09:18- ..and Carwyn played for - the Welsh Schoolboys for two years.

0:09:18 > 0:09:21- He captained the team - in his second year.

0:09:21 > 0:09:25- There's a photograph of Carwyn - and the French captain.

0:09:25 > 0:09:29- Carwyn was 5'8" - and the Frenchman was 6'8".

0:09:30 > 0:09:32- It looks like a man and a boy.

0:09:35 > 0:09:39- He had a healthy laugh. - It was a pleasure to hear him laugh.

0:09:39 > 0:09:43- Sometimes, he laughed with - gritted teeth. Look out then!

0:09:48 > 0:09:53- He was very analytical - in his approach.

0:09:53 > 0:09:58- He possessed a strong - analytical ability.

0:10:00 > 0:10:02- He'd say, "Oh, that doesn't work."

0:10:03 > 0:10:06- He'd give you the reasons - why it didn't work.

0:10:07 > 0:10:10- He took great pride in his work.

0:10:10 > 0:10:16- He loved the Welsh language - and Welsh poetry from an early age.

0:10:18 > 0:10:22- Because of this, Miss Dora, his - Welsh teacher, was very fond of him.

0:10:23 > 0:10:26- With her friend, Irene James...

0:10:26 > 0:10:30- ..they admired Carwyn - as a star of the school.

0:10:31 > 0:10:33- He was very fond of Gwenallt.

0:10:33 > 0:10:38- He was taught by Gwenallt when - he was a student in Aberystwyth.

0:10:38 > 0:10:40- He thought the world of Gwenallt.

0:10:41 > 0:10:43- Gwenallt was - a kind of mythical figure.

0:10:44 > 0:10:46- He was his hero.

0:11:04 > 0:11:07- When we strip off all our clothes...

0:11:07 > 0:11:10- ..the cloak of respectability - and wise knowledge...

0:11:11 > 0:11:14- ..the cloth of culture - and silks of learning...

0:11:14 > 0:11:18- ..the soul is so destitute, - the exposed impurity.

0:11:47 > 0:11:52- I first met Carwyn when he was a - student at Aberystwyth University...

0:11:52 > 0:11:54- ..in 1948.

0:11:54 > 0:11:59- He was a charming young man - and wonderful company.

0:12:00 > 0:12:04- We became great friends - from then on.

0:12:20 > 0:12:23- He was a very talented academic.

0:12:24 > 0:12:26- The Welsh language - was important to him...

0:12:27 > 0:12:29- ..as a Welsh speaker - and nationalist.

0:12:30 > 0:12:33- He joined Plaid Cymru.

0:12:33 > 0:12:37- He was President of Plaid Cymru - in the university that year.

0:12:40 > 0:12:43- Carwyn was a member - of the rugby team - and a star.

0:12:45 > 0:12:48- He won admiration - and became a hero...

0:12:48 > 0:12:53- ..in a way the rest of us - in the department weren't.

0:12:53 > 0:12:56- He was a handsome man.

0:12:57 > 0:13:00- The girls were after him - all the time.

0:13:01 > 0:13:03- He was forever - going out with the girls.

0:13:04 > 0:13:09- The Carwyn I knew - was very fond of girls...

0:13:09 > 0:13:12- ..and girls were very fond of him.

0:13:42 > 0:13:45- "Wales gave the Cardi his morality.

0:13:46 > 0:13:49- "She raised him - above the devilment of sex.

0:13:51 > 0:13:54- "It is difficult to follow - one of Wales's paths

0:13:54 > 0:13:58- "Without encountering rules - that challenge God."

0:14:10 > 0:14:13- Prosser Rhys, the gay poet, crowned.

0:14:14 > 0:14:18- This poem wasn't available - when I was in the Gwendraeth.

0:14:19 > 0:14:20- Miss Dora.

0:14:21 > 0:14:24- What would she have said - about sordidness of sex?

0:14:27 > 0:14:30- Avoid the issue - and blush like a beetroot.

0:14:30 > 0:14:33- I wish I'd have asked Gwenallt...

0:14:33 > 0:14:37- ..what he meant - by the sordidness of sex.

0:14:43 > 0:14:45- I'd be too ashamed to ask him.

0:14:47 > 0:14:49- I'd blush like a beetroot, too.

0:14:51 > 0:14:52- Damn it.

0:14:59 > 0:15:00- Why?

0:15:01 > 0:15:04- Why the hell do we need shame?

0:15:08 > 0:15:10- Why?

0:15:17 > 0:15:17- .

0:15:22 > 0:15:22- 888

0:15:22 > 0:15:24- 888- - 888

0:15:31 > 0:15:35- If Carwyn jumped over the hedge - and started training on his own...

0:15:35 > 0:15:38- ..I'd forget - the bruises and the bangs...

0:15:38 > 0:15:42- ..and get my kit on again - and kick about and watch him.

0:15:42 > 0:15:46- I've learnt many useful things - from Carwyn from his style of play.

0:15:46 > 0:15:48- Take your time, there's no hurry.

0:15:48 > 0:15:52- If you get 30 people on the field - chasing everywhere...

0:15:52 > 0:15:57- ..you only need one with a bit - of calmness to do a lot of damage.

0:16:03 > 0:16:05- He was a hero to us all.

0:16:05 > 0:16:10- When he'd come home during - the holidays, he'd go training.

0:16:10 > 0:16:13- Carwyn would laugh - if he heard me say training.

0:16:13 > 0:16:17- He'd kick the ball three times - and then out came the fag.

0:16:17 > 0:16:21- He'd kick the ball and pass the ball - with us. He'd be gone in 15 minutes.

0:16:22 > 0:16:25- When he played for Llanelli, - that was important.

0:16:25 > 0:16:29- In the mid-1950s, - we didn't have a TV set.

0:16:29 > 0:16:33- You saw his name in the newspaper - and heard him on the radio.

0:16:33 > 0:16:36- He was a giant - within a small group of people.

0:16:37 > 0:16:41- When he won his first cap, in '58...

0:16:41 > 0:16:43- ..against Australia...

0:16:43 > 0:16:47- ..the place erupted - everyone said - we now had an important person.

0:16:50 > 0:16:55- I first played with Carwyn when - we turned out for Llanelli in '58.

0:16:55 > 0:16:59- He was an excellent outside-half.

0:16:59 > 0:17:02- He was a good runner - and a good passer.

0:17:03 > 0:17:07- Dummy passes, a great side-stepper.

0:17:08 > 0:17:13- He was one of the best kickers - I ever played with.

0:17:15 > 0:17:18- Unfortunately, his playing career...

0:17:18 > 0:17:22- ..ran alongside Cliff Morgan's.

0:17:22 > 0:17:24- It was very unfortunate.

0:17:24 > 0:17:27- He deserved more than two caps.

0:17:27 > 0:17:31- The first was against Australia - when Cliff was injured.

0:17:31 > 0:17:34- He won that game with a drop goal.

0:17:35 > 0:17:37- He was an expert at drop goals.

0:17:38 > 0:17:43- Gwyn Evans to Carwyn. It's a drop - at goal and a very good try.

0:17:43 > 0:17:45- And it's over. And it's over.

0:17:46 > 0:17:50- For his second cap, - Cliff was back at outside-half...

0:17:50 > 0:17:53- ..but Carwyn played in the centre.

0:17:54 > 0:17:57- A centre - who doesn't like to tackle.

0:17:57 > 0:18:00- There was no point - in him being there and we lost.

0:18:00 > 0:18:04- Carwyn would say, - "Two caps - I'll take that."

0:18:04 > 0:18:09- If someone had said he'd win two - caps at the start of his career...

0:18:09 > 0:18:12- ..he would have taken that gladly.

0:18:12 > 0:18:14- That's the way he was.

0:18:14 > 0:18:18- He would look at the positives. - He'd won two caps.

0:18:18 > 0:18:21- He didn't sulk - because he should have won more.

0:18:30 > 0:18:34- The experiences - of the big game are mixed.

0:18:34 > 0:18:38- To me, it was a moment - of sheer happiness, of ecstasy...

0:18:38 > 0:18:41- ..when I heard my name - for the first time...

0:18:41 > 0:18:44- ..as part of - the XV to represent Wales.

0:18:45 > 0:18:49- Whenever there's excitement - in the air...

0:18:49 > 0:18:52- ..the two moods - - happy and anxious...

0:18:52 > 0:18:54- ..conflict cruelly.

0:18:59 > 0:19:01- Walking from the hotel - to the changing rooms.

0:19:02 > 0:19:05- Thousands on the streets, - dozens greet you.

0:19:05 > 0:19:09- "Do your best. - Good luck. How's it to be?"

0:19:13 > 0:19:17- A thrilling and terrible experience - at the same time.

0:19:20 > 0:19:24- Today, so scared and so nervous.

0:19:26 > 0:19:28- So small.

0:19:42 > 0:19:43- There's a hand on my shoulder.

0:19:44 > 0:19:47- Rees Stephens's voice - breaks my train of thought...

0:19:47 > 0:19:49- ..and the sound of the 60,000.

0:19:49 > 0:19:51- He says...

0:19:53 > 0:19:55- "Make the most of this moment, - my son.

0:19:56 > 0:19:58- "You might never get - another chance."

0:20:08 > 0:20:10- Carwyn made a promise.

0:20:10 > 0:20:13- When he left Llanelli as a player...

0:20:13 > 0:20:15- ..he would play for a season - in Cefneithin.

0:20:16 > 0:20:18- He kept his promise.

0:20:20 > 0:20:24- He played for us - he finished - playing for Llanelli in '59-'60.

0:20:24 > 0:20:27- He played for us - for a season in '60-'61.

0:20:27 > 0:20:32- He'd played for Llanelli and - London Welsh and all these teams.

0:20:32 > 0:20:37- We looked forward to him - returning to play for the village.

0:20:37 > 0:20:39- It was something special.

0:20:41 > 0:20:43- He had a good brain.

0:20:43 > 0:20:47- He was two or three moves - ahead of everyone else.

0:20:48 > 0:20:50- He had a great dummy pass.

0:20:51 > 0:20:56- Clive Thomas - I was talking - to Clive about a month ago.

0:20:56 > 0:20:59- I asked him - if he remembered the dummy pass.

0:20:59 > 0:21:01- Carwyn threw the dummy...

0:21:01 > 0:21:04- ..Clive caught the 'ball' - and dived over without the ball...

0:21:04 > 0:21:07- ..while Carwyn - scored under the posts.

0:21:07 > 0:21:12- His credo was - that rugby is a simple game.

0:21:13 > 0:21:16- Play it simply, everything is - simple and let the ball do the work.

0:21:17 > 0:21:20- Everyone needed self-discipline.

0:21:20 > 0:21:27- He wanted everyone - to be proud of their kit...

0:21:27 > 0:21:29- ..on the pitch and off the pitch.

0:21:30 > 0:21:34- If you were tidy walking on to - the pitch, everyone played better.

0:21:35 > 0:21:38- We had to wash our bootlaces...

0:21:38 > 0:21:41- ..iron creases into our shorts...

0:21:41 > 0:21:45- ..and clean the boots with polish - before walking on the pitch.

0:21:45 > 0:21:50- We'd line up - and he'd walk like a sergeant major.

0:21:50 > 0:21:56- You'd see the boys who played in the - team, colliers and manual workers...

0:21:56 > 0:22:00- ..they were inspected - before they took to the field.

0:22:00 > 0:22:03- We didn't lose a single game - throughout that season.

0:22:11 > 0:22:13- CHORAL SINGING

0:22:29 > 0:22:32- I'd say his happiest time...

0:22:32 > 0:22:36- ..was when he was relatively young - in Llandovery.

0:22:38 > 0:22:42- He was single. - He didn't have a family.

0:22:42 > 0:22:45- His mind was focused on the college.

0:22:48 > 0:22:51- Life in a boarding school - is a full life.

0:22:51 > 0:22:57- Life in the college - filled his entire life.

0:22:58 > 0:23:02- He didn't have much time to himself, - to be honest.

0:23:03 > 0:23:06- The college was his life.

0:23:08 > 0:23:10- He was very much a born teacher.

0:23:10 > 0:23:15- He had tremendous gifts - of communication to young people.

0:23:16 > 0:23:19- Because he was so passionate - about the wider world...

0:23:20 > 0:23:22- ..and internationalism...

0:23:22 > 0:23:25- ..he communicated that - very strongly to us.

0:23:25 > 0:23:28- We were all quite influenced - at the time...

0:23:28 > 0:23:33- ..in terms of thinking beyond Wales, - beyond nationalism...

0:23:33 > 0:23:36- ..to the bigger picture - of internationalism.

0:23:36 > 0:23:40- He was a wonderful man. The - children thought the world of him.

0:23:45 > 0:23:47- It was interesting for me - as a young boy.

0:23:48 > 0:23:52- I knew he played for Llanelli.

0:23:52 > 0:23:54- He was a star...

0:23:54 > 0:24:00- ..but he played every Tuesday - out on the pitch.

0:24:00 > 0:24:03- The master played with the boys.

0:24:06 > 0:24:10- We had a special coach in - the college from 1927 until 1967.

0:24:10 > 0:24:11- T P Williams.

0:24:12 > 0:24:14- Everyone called him Pope.

0:24:14 > 0:24:17- Carwyn learned so much from Pope.

0:24:19 > 0:24:22- What a coach! Magnificent.

0:24:22 > 0:24:25- He knew everything about the game.

0:24:25 > 0:24:28- Carwyn's apprenticeship - was with him.

0:24:31 > 0:24:33- He loved to see the ball moving.

0:24:33 > 0:24:37- "The ball moves faster - than the player."

0:24:37 > 0:24:39- That was the theory.

0:24:47 > 0:24:51- He didn't look after himself.

0:24:52 > 0:24:55- He smoked. - I've never seen such a thing.

0:24:55 > 0:24:58- If his meals hadn't been - prepared for him...

0:24:58 > 0:25:01- ..I think he would have starved.

0:25:01 > 0:25:04- Money meant nothing to him.

0:25:07 > 0:25:09- As boys, we looked after him.

0:25:09 > 0:25:13- He would come in - after having a few gin and tonics.

0:25:13 > 0:25:16- We would wake him up - in the morning...

0:25:16 > 0:25:19- ..to make sure - he was down for breakfast.

0:25:19 > 0:25:21- He had no-one else.

0:25:28 > 0:25:30- We did wonder about his sexuality...

0:25:32 > 0:25:34- ..but I would think that it was...

0:25:35 > 0:25:38- ..that was a very, - um, hidden part of his life.

0:25:38 > 0:25:41- I would imagine - that in the climate of the times...

0:25:42 > 0:25:46- ..that it was not something - that could ever be spoken about.

0:25:48 > 0:25:50- "The imagination of a boy - is healthy.

0:25:50 > 0:25:53- "The mature imagination - of a man is healthy.

0:25:54 > 0:25:57- "But there is a space - of life between...

0:25:57 > 0:25:59- .."in which the soul - is in ferment."

0:26:00 > 0:26:02- The space of life between.

0:26:04 > 0:26:06- That's where I am.

0:26:06 > 0:26:09- In the middle of this ferment.

0:26:09 > 0:26:11- The pain.

0:26:13 > 0:26:15- The pain is fiendish.

0:26:16 > 0:26:18- Never-ending.

0:26:18 > 0:26:21- Like entering the furnace of hell.

0:26:28 > 0:26:28- .

0:26:34 > 0:26:34- 888

0:26:34 > 0:26:36- 888- - 888

0:26:46 > 0:26:50- He didn't join Llanelli - until the end of the '60s.

0:26:50 > 0:26:52- Everyone was surprised.

0:26:52 > 0:26:55- Who was this man, Carwyn James...

0:26:55 > 0:26:58- ..who was coming to coach Llanelli?

0:27:02 > 0:27:04- Everything changed.

0:27:04 > 0:27:07- Spirits lifted - when he arrived at Stradey Park.

0:27:07 > 0:27:09- The team improved.

0:27:09 > 0:27:13- We won more games under Carwyn - than we used to win.

0:27:13 > 0:27:16- He was very quiet - - he never shouted.

0:27:16 > 0:27:18- He organized the team.

0:27:18 > 0:27:23- He could handle the players - better than anyone I've ever seen.

0:27:23 > 0:27:27- Just straighten your knees - and you'll get that forward thrust.

0:27:27 > 0:27:31- Just bend them slightly - - we'll watch it this time.

0:27:31 > 0:27:35- Carwyn seemed to be - 30 years ahead of everyone else...

0:27:35 > 0:27:37- ..in the way he coached.

0:27:39 > 0:27:42- What people are doing now, - Carwyn was doing years ago.

0:27:43 > 0:27:44- Ready, now.

0:27:45 > 0:27:47- Good one.

0:27:47 > 0:27:49- Good one.- - Thank you. Well done.

0:27:52 > 0:27:59- One of the first games he had - was Llanelli against South Africa.

0:28:01 > 0:28:05- He opposed apartheid. - He didn't want to see them playing.

0:28:07 > 0:28:11- Naturally, we prepare - differently for all teams.

0:28:11 > 0:28:15- We have some tactics in mind - for the Springboks.

0:28:15 > 0:28:19- We know their strengths - and weaknesses.

0:28:19 > 0:28:24- Out to the full-back Jones. Jones - has got his captain outside him.

0:28:24 > 0:28:28- Will he pass? Can he? He gets - the ball. It's Richards. What a try!

0:28:28 > 0:28:30- What a score!

0:28:31 > 0:28:36- Many of these people believe that - politics shouldn't enter into sport.

0:28:36 > 0:28:40- I don't go along - with this kind of thinking...

0:28:40 > 0:28:45- ..but again, I don't feel that - I should go up to every player...

0:28:45 > 0:28:49- ..and say, "Look, these are - my views - they're strong views."

0:28:49 > 0:28:52- Butler has scored.

0:28:52 > 0:28:56- He couldn't stay away. - His heart was in it.

0:28:57 > 0:28:59- He'd coached the team for months.

0:29:00 > 0:29:03- Carwyn stayed in the changing rooms.

0:29:05 > 0:29:07- He was years ahead of his time.

0:29:07 > 0:29:12- I think they made a wise decision - to choose him as the Lions coach.

0:29:13 > 0:29:15- One, take one.

0:29:16 > 0:29:20- What is the process of management - selection for a Lions tour?

0:29:20 > 0:29:24- About three or four of us - went to London for an interview.

0:29:25 > 0:29:28- We were grilled - on the technicalities...

0:29:28 > 0:29:31- ..and the tactical side - of the game...

0:29:31 > 0:29:34- ..by the four home unions - tours' committee.

0:29:34 > 0:29:38- There were about - at least a dozen of them there.

0:29:38 > 0:29:41- It was a pretty gruelling interview - as I remember it.

0:29:41 > 0:29:45- The most potent question for me - was the very last one.

0:29:45 > 0:29:50- In a few weeks, I was standing - for Parliament at Llanelli.

0:29:50 > 0:29:55- They put it to me, "Well, if you - are standing for Parliament...

0:29:55 > 0:29:58- .."really, what are your chances?"

0:29:58 > 0:30:01- I said, "Before I came up here - this morning...

0:30:02 > 0:30:05- .."the odds the local bookmaker - had given...

0:30:05 > 0:30:10- .."I was quoted at 100/1 against."

0:30:10 > 0:30:15- So they all laughed - and they disregarded all that.

0:30:27 > 0:30:29- Ecstatic happiness.

0:30:29 > 0:30:32- And then, in a moment, - sadness on realizing...

0:30:32 > 0:30:35- ..that living in an excited state...

0:30:35 > 0:30:39- ..fleeting - are these precious moments...

0:30:39 > 0:30:41- ..which you cannot revive.

0:30:44 > 0:30:49- There's a very fine line - between laughter and tears...

0:30:49 > 0:30:52- ..between paradise and hell...

0:30:52 > 0:30:54- ..between the comic and tragic.

0:30:56 > 0:31:01- Like Anton Chekov - drinking champagne on his deathbed.

0:31:11 > 0:31:14- There was an ambience - about the bloke.

0:31:14 > 0:31:16- He was friendly - no favourites.

0:31:16 > 0:31:21- Undoubtedly, he was something - different and was right at the time.

0:31:21 > 0:31:24- He was more...

0:31:24 > 0:31:27- ..more of an academic coach.

0:31:29 > 0:31:32- I think Carwyn and Doug - in particular...

0:31:33 > 0:31:34- ..the year before the tour...

0:31:34 > 0:31:37- ..put a lot of effort - into what they wanted...

0:31:37 > 0:31:41- ..what they were up against - and they did their homework...

0:31:42 > 0:31:43- ..so that what we had to do...

0:31:44 > 0:31:47- ..was what he expected us to do - - and that was play rugby.

0:31:50 > 0:31:55- Carwyn had pencilled in - the first six teams...

0:31:57 > 0:32:00- ..on the plane out to New Zealand.

0:32:00 > 0:32:04- He was giving everyone a game - and making sure everyone played.

0:32:06 > 0:32:09- Carwyn was quiet, unobtrusive.

0:32:09 > 0:32:12- Most of his coaching - was done at the dining table...

0:32:12 > 0:32:17- ..where he would get inside you - and find out what you believed...

0:32:17 > 0:32:21- ..how you thought rugby should be - played, what was your contribution.

0:32:22 > 0:32:27- He had the same relationship with - Barry, with Gareth and Willie John.

0:32:27 > 0:32:31- All these top men in world rugby - - and he talked to them about rugby...

0:32:31 > 0:32:35- ..and give them the impression - he wants to learn.

0:32:35 > 0:32:39- He retained what they said - and he would put it into practice.

0:32:39 > 0:32:43- I would often hear a knock - at my hotel room door...

0:32:44 > 0:32:47- ..and open it to see - Carwyn standing there.

0:32:47 > 0:32:51- "I want a chat." - He'd come in to have a chat.

0:32:51 > 0:32:54- Or he'd invite you out for a meal.

0:32:54 > 0:32:57- What about the language? - Is it a problem?

0:32:58 > 0:33:00- You have a number of Welsh speakers.

0:33:01 > 0:33:05- About seven or eight speak Welsh.

0:33:05 > 0:33:12- We speak Welsh to each other - when we're in each other's company.

0:33:12 > 0:33:17- The point is, it comes naturally, - and the others realize that.

0:33:18 > 0:33:21- He didn't speak Welsh - when the others were around...

0:33:22 > 0:33:26- ..but he needed - about half an hour every day...

0:33:26 > 0:33:31- ..in the company - of myself, Gerald, Barry and Gareth.

0:33:31 > 0:33:33- About six of us spoke Welsh.

0:33:33 > 0:33:38- He would end every day - by speaking Welsh to us.

0:33:39 > 0:33:42- He would always smile - when he spoke Welsh.

0:33:43 > 0:33:46- He liked Delme - and felt Delme was a...

0:33:46 > 0:33:48- What shall I say?

0:33:50 > 0:33:54- A big soft Mama's boy - who would need looking after.

0:33:55 > 0:33:59- Not that he was a soft man in - rugby terms or anything like that.

0:34:00 > 0:34:02- Carwyn enjoyed that.

0:34:03 > 0:34:07- He enjoyed caring for people - and understanding people.

0:34:09 > 0:34:12- There was a special bond - between him and Barry.

0:34:12 > 0:34:17- If Barry ever would admit to a - mistake, it would only be to Carwyn.

0:34:17 > 0:34:20- It was father and son, - brother and brother.

0:34:21 > 0:34:24- Barry had total confidence - in Carwyn and vice versa.

0:34:24 > 0:34:28- I'd talk to him as soon - as I got up in the morning.

0:34:28 > 0:34:33- "Barry, do you want a day off? Do - you want a light training session?"

0:34:34 > 0:34:37- I'd go off to play football - on another pitch.

0:34:37 > 0:34:39- He would tell Doug Smith...

0:34:40 > 0:34:43- .."Leave him be - - don't force him to do things."

0:34:43 > 0:34:45- He just... more or less...

0:34:46 > 0:34:50- ..took one look at Barry and said, - "What do you do with him?"

0:34:50 > 0:34:51- That was it.

0:34:52 > 0:34:57- He'd say, "It's up to you. - Go and play - I can't help you."

0:35:01 > 0:35:05- His motto was think on the field - - you have to think on the field.

0:35:06 > 0:35:07- That's the only thing he told us.

0:35:08 > 0:35:11- "Boys, think on the field. - I can't think for you.

0:35:11 > 0:35:13- "Go on, off you go.

0:35:14 > 0:35:18- "Like birds, go out and soar."

0:35:18 > 0:35:20- That's it. That's Carwyn.

0:35:20 > 0:35:24- Behind Willie John, - Sean Lynch and Delme Thomas.

0:35:24 > 0:35:26- Chico Hopkins to Barry John.

0:35:26 > 0:35:30- John Dawes. - That's the big man, John Bevan.

0:35:30 > 0:35:34- The First Test, - I don't know how we won it.

0:35:34 > 0:35:36- It's going to be a try.

0:35:36 > 0:35:40- It's a try for the Lions, for - front row forward, Ian McLauchlan.

0:35:40 > 0:35:44- Had we lost, it would have been - difficult for us to win the series.

0:35:44 > 0:35:45- We realize this.

0:35:46 > 0:35:50- We chose our best team - so it was important for us to win.

0:35:50 > 0:35:52- We've won and we're very happy.

0:35:53 > 0:35:56- Congratulations, Carwyn. - Go and enjoy yourself.

0:35:56 > 0:35:58- Thank you.

0:36:00 > 0:36:03- The Second Test, they gave us - a hiding for 60 minutes.

0:36:03 > 0:36:06- On the blind side, Burgess.

0:36:06 > 0:36:09- What a good score! - What a brilliant score!

0:36:10 > 0:36:13- In the last 20 minutes, - we came back at them.

0:36:13 > 0:36:18- Barry John. See how difficult - it is to keep your feet.

0:36:18 > 0:36:22- During that last 20 minutes, - I said to Carwyn...

0:36:23 > 0:36:27- .."If we can take that into - the Third Test, we've got a shout."

0:36:27 > 0:36:31- I felt better after the Second - than I did after the First.

0:36:31 > 0:36:35- We showed the character John - had mentioned in the First Test...

0:36:36 > 0:36:39- ..but in the Second, - there was a lot of quality play.

0:36:39 > 0:36:43- There were two tries there - that should have been scored.

0:36:44 > 0:36:46- There was a penalty we didn't take.

0:36:46 > 0:36:49- There were 13 points - that went begging.

0:36:49 > 0:36:53- Can he get there? David Duckham. - What a brilliant try!

0:36:53 > 0:36:56- The pass was forward, - the referee said.

0:36:56 > 0:37:01- We knew after the Second if we could - put that right, we were in business.

0:37:01 > 0:37:03- We had a week - preparing for the Third...

0:37:04 > 0:37:06- ..and we certainly - did some hard work.

0:37:06 > 0:37:08- Five yards from the All Black line.

0:37:09 > 0:37:12- Can the Lions ruck this ball? - They can, to Edwards.

0:37:12 > 0:37:14- Edwards going. Davis is there.

0:37:14 > 0:37:18- Gerald Davies has scored a try. - He turned his body cleverly.

0:37:21 > 0:37:23- Taylor's deflection. Edwards.

0:37:24 > 0:37:26- Is he under the posts? - Can he get there?

0:37:27 > 0:37:29- Barry John has scored. What a try!

0:37:30 > 0:37:32- Barry John, the scorer.

0:37:32 > 0:37:37- When we arrived, Doug Smith was - asked how he thought we'd get on.

0:37:38 > 0:37:41- He said we'd win the series 2-1 - with one draw.

0:37:41 > 0:37:44- We nearly fell off our chairs, - but it happened.

0:37:47 > 0:37:52- That's it. The British Lions - have won the series.

0:37:54 > 0:37:58- Would it have happened - without Carwyn? I doubt it.

0:37:58 > 0:38:02- A great day in a life that has been - a distinguished one in rugby.

0:38:03 > 0:38:05- This must be one of the moments.

0:38:05 > 0:38:08- Oh, yes, - one of the truly emotional moments.

0:38:08 > 0:38:12- The boys played superbly. - It's been a long journey, Cliff.

0:38:12 > 0:38:15- It's been a hard tour - - 24 matches in New Zealand.

0:38:16 > 0:38:20- The boys have played well, - with spirit, in all these matches.

0:38:20 > 0:38:22- They thoroughly deserve - to win the series.

0:38:23 > 0:38:26- # My grandpappy and me... #

0:38:26 > 0:38:31- His influence was one of - the greatest influences I've seen.

0:38:31 > 0:38:36- He influenced the game of rugby - around the world.

0:38:36 > 0:38:41- After our tour, I spoke to TP McLean - and some of the other boys...

0:38:41 > 0:38:46- ..and they said that rugby in New - Zealand would never be the same...

0:38:46 > 0:38:48- ..after the 1971 Lions Tour.

0:38:48 > 0:38:51- There we are. - That's what Carwyn could do.

0:38:54 > 0:38:56- # See how the mainsail sets... #

0:38:56 > 0:38:59- It was never a job for Carwyn, - it was a life.

0:38:59 > 0:39:02- And he wanted people - to share that life.

0:39:02 > 0:39:07- We were willing to take part in it. - He offered so much for us.

0:39:07 > 0:39:11- # Ho-oh-oh-ome

0:39:11 > 0:39:15- # This is the worst show, - yeah, I've ever been on

0:39:18 > 0:39:22- # Hoist up the John B's sail

0:39:23 > 0:39:26- # See how the mainsail sets

0:39:26 > 0:39:29- # Call for the captain ashore

0:39:29 > 0:39:32- # Let me go home

0:39:32 > 0:39:35- # I wanna go home... #

0:39:35 > 0:39:38- He didn't stand - at the end of the '71 Tour...

0:39:38 > 0:39:42- ..he didn't stand on a soapbox - and say, "Yahoo, we've done it!"

0:39:42 > 0:39:44- There was never that reaction.

0:39:44 > 0:39:48- There was just a quiet, - "Well done, chaps."

0:39:54 > 0:39:54- .

0:39:59 > 0:39:59- 888

0:39:59 > 0:40:01- 888- - 888

0:40:18 > 0:40:21- Any tour of New Zealand is - a tough one. All I will say is this.

0:40:21 > 0:40:25- When the All Blacks come here - in '72, they'll be a good side.

0:40:25 > 0:40:27- They'll be a hard side to beat.

0:40:28 > 0:40:31- I only hope that every side - that will play against them...

0:40:31 > 0:40:36- ..will prepare thoroughly because - they'll have to give their best...

0:40:36 > 0:40:40- ..if they're going to beat any - New Zealand side that comes on tour.

0:40:42 > 0:40:45- Make the most of this moment, - my son.

0:40:46 > 0:40:49- You might never get another chance.

0:40:52 > 0:40:55- That's better. Close on him, Gareth.

0:40:58 > 0:41:00- Eyes on the ball, John.

0:41:01 > 0:41:03- He had been preparing for a year...

0:41:03 > 0:41:07- ..when we played the All Blacks - at Llanelli.

0:41:07 > 0:41:13- He knew their weaknesses. - He knew what kind of team he wanted.

0:41:13 > 0:41:17- He brought Tommy David to Llanelli - the previous year...

0:41:17 > 0:41:20- ..and Chico Hopkins - as a scrum-half.

0:41:20 > 0:41:23- He knew Llanelli were weak - in some areas.

0:41:23 > 0:41:26- He strengthened the team.

0:41:27 > 0:41:30- Think about it. - That's the important thing.

0:41:30 > 0:41:33- Think about it, think about it. - It's a thinking game.

0:41:34 > 0:41:36- He always said - it was a thinking game.

0:41:36 > 0:41:38- Think about what you're doing.

0:41:39 > 0:41:42- He thought a lot about the games.

0:41:42 > 0:41:48- He looked at the opposition's - weakness more than their strength.

0:41:48 > 0:41:52- He wanted to highlight - the weaknesses.

0:41:52 > 0:41:56- He would tell us - what we had to do to beat them.

0:42:04 > 0:42:09- We arrived at Stradey first thing - in the morning - about 10.00am.

0:42:09 > 0:42:13- We went down to the Ashburnham - in Pembrey for a meal.

0:42:14 > 0:42:18- I couldn't eat a meal - before playing.

0:42:18 > 0:42:22- I'd swallow two or three eggs raw - and wash them down with a sherry.

0:42:23 > 0:42:28- When the boys saw three eggs - being served to me on a plate...

0:42:29 > 0:42:31- ..I had to go out - to swallow the eggs...

0:42:32 > 0:42:34- ..and then come back - to sit with them.

0:42:34 > 0:42:38- I could never eat a meal - before a game.

0:42:40 > 0:42:44- We travelled back to Stradey - about 1.30pm...

0:42:44 > 0:42:46- ..about an hour before kick-off.

0:42:51 > 0:42:52- Have you got a pad?

0:42:52 > 0:42:56- No-one could have given more - before the game than Carwyn.

0:42:57 > 0:42:59- He said it was an important game.

0:43:00 > 0:43:04- The most important game of our lives - would be the All Blacks at Stradey.

0:43:04 > 0:43:07- We'd trained for six months - for this game.

0:43:08 > 0:43:12- He told us not to waste our chance - and to do our best.

0:43:14 > 0:43:17- He then handed over - the speaking duties to me.

0:43:18 > 0:43:21- I had to tell the boys how - I felt and what I expected of them.

0:43:22 > 0:43:26- No doubt about it - Delme expressed - it better than anyone else.

0:43:26 > 0:43:30- The game mattered more to him - than any other game he'd played in.

0:43:31 > 0:43:32- It got through to the players...

0:43:33 > 0:43:36- ..to the extent - I had one or two of the boys crying.

0:43:36 > 0:43:38- Carwyn was the main man.

0:43:38 > 0:43:42- He had coached the team - for two or three years.

0:43:42 > 0:43:46- He had built us up - to the game against New Zealand.

0:43:59 > 0:44:01- CHEERING

0:44:14 > 0:44:16- CHEERING

0:44:25 > 0:44:30- You could see the pleasure in - his face when we came off the pitch.

0:44:30 > 0:44:35- He was so happy that day because - we had beaten the All Blacks.

0:44:35 > 0:44:40- He tried to keep quiet - and didn't express his feelings.

0:44:40 > 0:44:43- That's the type of person he was...

0:44:43 > 0:44:47- ..but you could see - he was proud of the team.

0:44:54 > 0:44:57- Everyone said he'd been lucky - out in New Zealand...

0:44:58 > 0:45:00- ..because he had a good team.

0:45:00 > 0:45:03- He proved a point in Stradey - that day.

0:45:04 > 0:45:07- He had also been turned down - for the role of Welsh coach.

0:45:08 > 0:45:11- He proved he was an excellent coach.

0:45:14 > 0:45:16- COUGHING

0:45:25 > 0:45:31- I think he felt bitter...

0:45:31 > 0:45:35- ..because he'd been overlooked - for the Wales coaching job.

0:45:44 > 0:45:48- Clive Rowlands - Wales Coach 1968-72

0:45:48 > 0:45:53- When they chose me for the job - in 1968, I told them straight...

0:45:54 > 0:45:59- ..I wanted it for three years - and not one.

0:45:59 > 0:46:02- At the end of the second year...

0:46:02 > 0:46:07- ..I told them that I wanted Wales's - next coach to work with me...

0:46:08 > 0:46:10- ..during the final year.

0:46:11 > 0:46:14- So he could learn what was going on - and the transition would be smooth.

0:46:15 > 0:46:16- I thought that was a good idea.

0:46:17 > 0:46:22- Carwyn was one of the candidates, - along with John Dawes.

0:46:22 > 0:46:25- Carwyn had been very successful - with Llanelli.

0:46:25 > 0:46:29- John Dawes had been - very successful with London Welsh.

0:46:29 > 0:46:35- It was typical of Carwyn - - he wanted total control.

0:46:35 > 0:46:38- That included picking the team.

0:46:38 > 0:46:44- But a Big Five existed at the time - and Carwyn didn't stand a chance.

0:46:44 > 0:46:47- They would never relinquish control.

0:46:47 > 0:46:53- I can see him now, standing by - the radiator warming his backside...

0:46:55 > 0:46:57- ..and smoking, as usual.

0:46:57 > 0:46:59- A fag in his mouth.

0:46:59 > 0:47:04- He said he'd decided he didn't - want to be the Welsh coach...

0:47:04 > 0:47:06- ..under the current terms.

0:47:07 > 0:47:11- I argued with him about it - for at least two hours.

0:47:12 > 0:47:15- At about two or three o'clock - in the morning...

0:47:16 > 0:47:19- ..he said, - "Anyway, I've sent the letter."

0:47:19 > 0:47:22- It was a long letter - rejecting the job.

0:47:25 > 0:47:28- He'd made it plainly obvious...

0:47:28 > 0:47:32- ..why he wasn't ready - to be the Wales coach...

0:47:33 > 0:47:37- ..if he wasn't allowed - direct control over the team...

0:47:37 > 0:47:41- ..without any interference - from the Big Five.

0:47:41 > 0:47:45- I have to say, I was very upset - with him that night...

0:47:45 > 0:47:47- ..for wasting my time.

0:47:58 > 0:48:01- We all want the new man - to be successful.

0:48:01 > 0:48:04- He must be given the freedom - to express himself.

0:48:07 > 0:48:11- A coach, like a teacher, - is an expression of personality.

0:48:11 > 0:48:14- He has to nominate - if he is to succeed.

0:48:14 > 0:48:15- This he cannot do...

0:48:16 > 0:48:19- ..with a small committee which is - responsible for his appointment.

0:48:20 > 0:48:22- Whatever the future policy...

0:48:22 > 0:48:25- ..it is important - as a matter of principle...

0:48:25 > 0:48:30- ..that he is appointed by the full - executive committee of the Union.

0:48:30 > 0:48:32- He should be answerable to them.

0:48:37 > 0:48:40- The dictator must observe humility.

0:48:40 > 0:48:45- My questions were rhetorical - and I don't expect a reply.

0:48:51 > 0:48:56- I think there was great frustration - initially and then disappointment.

0:48:58 > 0:49:05- He wanted to bring back that type - of rugby to the Welsh life.

0:49:06 > 0:49:10- I think he was ready for it - but Wales wasn't ready for it.

0:49:12 > 0:49:14- And I think that frustrated him.

0:49:14 > 0:49:19- He could see - that he was getting nowhere fast.

0:49:19 > 0:49:25- He resigned himself to the fact that - he wasn't going to be the coach.

0:49:25 > 0:49:28- That's when disappointment set in.

0:49:28 > 0:49:33- I think, from then, - he became very unhappy.

0:49:35 > 0:49:37- Sadly.

0:49:38 > 0:49:43- My questions were rhetorical - and I don't expect a reply.

0:49:47 > 0:49:50- Get your retaliation in first, - goddam it.

0:50:00 > 0:50:01- .

0:50:05 > 0:50:05- 888

0:50:05 > 0:50:07- 888- - 888

0:50:16 > 0:50:21- He worked occasionally when - was lecturing at Trinity College.

0:50:22 > 0:50:25- I was Head of Programmes - at the BBC at the time.

0:50:26 > 0:50:29- I wanted more input from rugby.

0:50:31 > 0:50:35- He left Trinity College - to come and work full-time.

0:50:35 > 0:50:39- Of course, - he became an excellent presenter...

0:50:39 > 0:50:43- ..on Sports Lineup - on Sunday afternoons.

0:50:47 > 0:50:52- As soon as he saw the microphone, - or the cameras started rolling...

0:50:53 > 0:50:55- ..he was a different man.

0:50:56 > 0:50:59- His language on screen - was excellent.

0:51:00 > 0:51:04- As a match analyst, - he was second to none.

0:51:08 > 0:51:13- I'm looking forward to the analysis - of the quality of Welsh club rugby.

0:51:14 > 0:51:17- I'll try and assess the quality - of the game generally...

0:51:18 > 0:51:21- ..at all levels in Wales - as we approach the end of the '70s.

0:51:22 > 0:51:24- He was an academic.

0:51:24 > 0:51:29- I was surprised he'd decided - to pack in his quiet life...

0:51:29 > 0:51:32- ..at Trinity College Carmarthen...

0:51:32 > 0:51:36- ..to join the hustle and bustle - of broadcasting.

0:51:36 > 0:51:41- When the red light came on, - it was time to perform.

0:51:41 > 0:51:44- Half the time, - there was a call for Carwyn...

0:51:44 > 0:51:48- ..and he was down the corridor - having a cigarette.

0:51:48 > 0:51:51- Life is serious, - the playing of games is serious...

0:51:51 > 0:51:55- ..winning for the sake - of national prestige is important.

0:51:55 > 0:51:58- They mistrust the flair - and panache of the French.

0:51:59 > 0:52:02- A free-flowing basketball type - of approach is too dangerous.

0:52:03 > 0:52:06- There was no discipline in his - personal and professional life.

0:52:07 > 0:52:10- He couldn't stand - being woken up at 5.00am...

0:52:11 > 0:52:16- ..to do some work for a programme - that started at 6.00am.

0:52:16 > 0:52:18- He preferred to stay in bed.

0:52:19 > 0:52:24- He was a man who enjoyed the night - more than early morning.

0:52:24 > 0:52:30- At one time, he was doing sports - bulletins very early in the morning.

0:52:30 > 0:52:34- He had to be at the BBC - before 6.00am...

0:52:34 > 0:52:37- ..to prepare whatever he had to say.

0:52:37 > 0:52:41- Often, when I produced - Helo Bobol in the mornings...

0:52:41 > 0:52:45- ..he'd turn up in his pyjamas - wearing an overcoat on top.

0:52:45 > 0:52:48- He'd take off his coat - and in he went.

0:52:48 > 0:52:52- He'd take his time to move - from one place to another...

0:52:53 > 0:52:55- ..and yet, his diary was packed.

0:52:56 > 0:53:02- That's why he'd turn up - to places rather late at times.

0:53:05 > 0:53:07- There was a table in the kitchen.

0:53:08 > 0:53:11- It wasn't a small table. - It was a substantial table.

0:53:12 > 0:53:15- It was covered in letters, - envelopes, papers.

0:53:16 > 0:53:18- Half of them hadn't been opened.

0:53:20 > 0:53:24- "You have to go through everything, - read them all...

0:53:24 > 0:53:28- .."and choose - what to accept and what to refuse."

0:53:29 > 0:53:34- By the time we'd finished, - I'd written over 600 letters...

0:53:34 > 0:53:39- ..to try and clear - the correspondence on the table.

0:53:39 > 0:53:43- The car was also full of letters, - coats and bags.

0:53:43 > 0:53:45- He was quite disorganized.

0:53:47 > 0:53:49- He thought he could cope...

0:53:50 > 0:53:53- ..but he needed someone - to check that he was all right...

0:53:53 > 0:53:57- ..and that he had arrived - where he was supposed to arrive.

0:53:57 > 0:54:01- He'd often return to his sister's - in Cefneithin for Sunday lunch.

0:54:01 > 0:54:04- She did his washing for years.

0:54:04 > 0:54:07- He thought the world of Gwen...

0:54:07 > 0:54:09- ..but Gwen was sharp.

0:54:09 > 0:54:12- Gwen dealt with him - as if he was a boy.

0:54:12 > 0:54:15- He had to do - what Gwen told him to do.

0:54:15 > 0:54:18- "Do I have to do it?" - "You have to do it now."

0:54:18 > 0:54:20- Gwen was exceptional.

0:54:21 > 0:54:24- It was all right - to come back and sleep...

0:54:24 > 0:54:29- ..but he liked to see, - well... he could see very far.

0:54:29 > 0:54:31- He wanted to go far.

0:54:36 > 0:54:38- He did go far.

0:54:54 > 0:54:59- Sometimes, you have to leave Wales - to come back.

0:55:09 > 0:55:11- Other times...

0:55:11 > 0:55:13- ..there's no choice.

0:55:13 > 0:55:15- You must go.

0:55:34 > 0:55:37- He took a sabbatical in '77.

0:55:37 > 0:55:41- He went to Italy, to Rovigo.

0:55:42 > 0:55:44- He was happy in Italy.

0:55:44 > 0:55:46- From what I could see...

0:55:46 > 0:55:49- ..he was more relaxed...

0:55:50 > 0:55:52- ..outside Wales...

0:55:53 > 0:55:56- ..where people's only concern - was rugby.

0:55:58 > 0:56:00- Good regrouping there - from the kick-off.

0:56:01 > 0:56:03- Very good control at the line-out.

0:56:03 > 0:56:07- You can see the delivery, - and the ball moved across field.

0:56:17 > 0:56:23- The first thing we heard was that - a great coach was about to arrive.

0:56:23 > 0:56:27- We didn't know who - but we didn't really care.

0:56:27 > 0:56:31- But we heard the name and found out - he was a famous coach from Llanelli.

0:56:31 > 0:56:38- He'd won three titles with Llanelli - and he'd coached the British Lions.

0:56:38 > 0:56:41- He'd had a sensational result - against New Zealand.

0:56:45 > 0:56:57- He was quiet during the week - but his team talk was special.

0:56:57 > 0:56:59- He transferred his calmness...

0:57:00 > 0:57:04- ..which was part of his personality, - to the field.

0:57:04 > 0:57:09- Like the moment before a battle, - he could keep the team calm.

0:57:09 > 0:57:14- Do you remember what Baiani - called him? Agricola!

0:57:14 > 0:57:19- The trouble with Italian rugby - is that Mediano di Mischia...

0:57:19 > 0:57:22- ..wants to decide - what the team is doing.

0:57:22 > 0:57:25- Every team that I've seen, - Mediano di Mischia.

0:57:25 > 0:57:28- Very bad for Italian rugby.

0:57:28 > 0:57:32- The forwards do the thinking - and not the scrum-half.

0:57:33 > 0:57:40- We won the Championship - against Casale La Tegolaia.

0:57:40 > 0:57:41- Yes, in Rovigo.

0:57:42 > 0:57:46- He chose the team from the players - who had appeared most often...

0:57:46 > 0:57:50- ..during the Championship. - Do you remember?

0:57:51 > 0:57:52- Yes, yes.

0:57:52 > 0:57:56- Another good memory was when - we met the Pope. Do you remember?

0:57:56 > 0:58:03- The club's President, Bonzetti, - introduced Carwyn to him...

0:58:03 > 0:58:08- ..by saying, - "Here's our devil of a coach."

0:58:08 > 0:58:15- John Paul II said, - "What? The Devil in the Vatican!"

0:58:15 > 0:58:17- CARWYN SPEAKS ITALIAN

0:58:30 > 0:58:34- Here in Rovigo, he had people - who respected and admired him.

0:58:34 > 0:58:36- He was a successful man.

0:58:36 > 0:58:41- There was sadness and disappointment - hiding under the surface, though...

0:58:41 > 0:58:46- ..because of his failure to express - his true personality back home.

0:58:46 > 0:58:50- This was true not only on the rugby - pitch but also in his personal life.

0:58:51 > 0:58:54- He was evidently unhappy.

0:58:54 > 0:59:00- Carwyn also suffered because - he couldn't express his feelings...

0:59:01 > 0:59:03- ..especially love.

0:59:04 > 0:59:07- This was worse because he was such - a sensitive person.

0:59:08 > 0:59:13- This may have been the reason he - detached himself from everyday life.

0:59:13 > 0:59:16- He let everything slip - from his grasp.

0:59:18 > 0:59:29- He said something - that truly shocked me.

0:59:29 > 0:59:34- We'd all gone back to his flat - for a drink and some fun.

0:59:34 > 0:59:37- Then, after everyone had left...

0:59:37 > 0:59:39- It was autumn and misty outside.

0:59:40 > 0:59:46- He stood by the window - smoking his John Players as usual...

0:59:47 > 0:59:55- He had drunk a lot - and, very sincerely, he said...

0:59:55 > 1:00:00- .."Angelo, believe you me, - if I had to die tonight...

1:00:01 > 1:00:06- .."I wouldn't mind. - It wouldn't bother me at all."

1:00:06 > 1:00:13- I tried to help him but I couldn't. - That's the way it was.

1:00:36 > 1:00:39- Dots on his face - show the creases of time.

1:00:41 > 1:00:44- The eyes without any sign - of man's happiness.

1:00:45 > 1:00:49- A voice never nurtured - or heard by a congregation...

1:00:49 > 1:00:54- ..a voice silenced - by lack of self-esteem.

1:00:56 > 1:01:00- He concentrated on it - but it didn't feel any emptier.

1:01:00 > 1:01:02- Emptier.

1:01:03 > 1:01:07- His barren face - was nothing in the lake's water.

1:01:08 > 1:01:12- And on the ruins - of our civilisation today...

1:01:14 > 1:01:18- ..grow the yellow flowers - with their white petals.

1:01:24 > 1:01:26- After what happened...

1:01:26 > 1:01:32- ..he lived an extremely stressful - life for a long period of time.

1:01:35 > 1:01:38- Psoriasis spread through his body.

1:01:38 > 1:01:42- It was awful. - He had blood on his shirts.

1:01:42 > 1:01:45- He had blood on his towels.

1:01:46 > 1:01:50- He had this skin disease.

1:01:50 > 1:01:51- To be honest...

1:01:52 > 1:01:55- ..I don't think he slept properly...

1:01:55 > 1:01:58- ..during the last 15 years - of his life.

1:02:01 > 1:02:04- I don't think he had one - comfortable night.

1:02:04 > 1:02:08- It deteriorated over the years.

1:02:10 > 1:02:12- He never overcame the illness.

1:02:15 > 1:02:21- The illness made him drink - more and more.

1:02:21 > 1:02:27- It was the only way - he could find peace.

1:02:54 > 1:02:56- He kept a lot inside himself.

1:02:57 > 1:03:03- He wasn't the kind of man - to tell his friend, "I feel rough."

1:03:04 > 1:03:09- He just kept himself to himself.

1:03:12 > 1:03:14- He was definitely a complex person.

1:03:14 > 1:03:18- I don't know how many secrets - he was willing to share.

1:03:18 > 1:03:23- He shared some of his secrets - with me. I would never repeat them.

1:03:25 > 1:03:31- I don't think he would readily - share secrets with people.

1:03:31 > 1:03:33- He was a private person.

1:03:37 > 1:03:41- Carwyn was so lonely in one sense.

1:03:42 > 1:03:47- He had so many inner feelings...

1:03:47 > 1:03:51- ..competing against each other.

1:03:55 > 1:03:59- He never expressed them, - even to his friends.

1:04:01 > 1:04:03- That's the truth.

1:04:03 > 1:04:08- I remember one night, we went - to an Italian restaurant in Cardiff.

1:04:08 > 1:04:11- He always chose - where we'd go to eat.

1:04:12 > 1:04:14- There was no choice.

1:04:14 > 1:04:18- I was never sure if he went there - for the food or the people.

1:04:18 > 1:04:24- He always treated the staff well - in restaurants.

1:04:24 > 1:04:28- He was a real gentleman - when he spoke to them.

1:04:29 > 1:04:34- There was one young Italian man - there who was very glad to see him.

1:04:35 > 1:04:41- My wife, my late wife, had been - friends with him for many years.

1:04:41 > 1:04:44- They spent a lot of time together.

1:04:44 > 1:04:47- A lot of people - thought they were lovers.

1:04:47 > 1:04:51- I knew there was nothing - between Carwyn and her...

1:04:51 > 1:04:55- ..and I knew Carwyn wasn't - seeing another girl either.

1:04:55 > 1:05:01- He loved girls' company but - he didn't chase girls in any way.

1:05:02 > 1:05:09- She'd told me his needs - weren't like those of other men...

1:05:09 > 1:05:12- ..when it came to women.

1:05:14 > 1:05:18- At that time, there was - more stigma if you came out.

1:05:20 > 1:05:22- Think of the impact.

1:05:22 > 1:05:26- Now I don't know for sure - if he was...

1:05:26 > 1:05:28- ..but imagine if he had come out.

1:05:28 > 1:05:31- Imagine the effect - it would have had...

1:05:31 > 1:05:34- ..on his father, on the chapel.

1:05:34 > 1:05:36- You just don't do it.

1:05:37 > 1:05:39- Dear me.

1:05:40 > 1:05:45- No, I've never heard anyone say who - the man was, if he even had a man.

1:05:45 > 1:05:49- I don't believe, damn it, - the way he was...

1:05:49 > 1:05:52- ..that anyone would fancy him.

1:05:54 > 1:05:55- No way.

1:05:57 > 1:06:01- A lot of people invented stories.

1:06:02 > 1:06:03- Dear me.

1:06:03 > 1:06:06- The non-conformist conscience.

1:06:06 > 1:06:12- The conscience of Methodist, - the non-conformist conscience.

1:06:30 > 1:06:32- GLASS SMASHES

1:06:46 > 1:06:50- It's possible - that the fact he hid this...

1:06:50 > 1:06:52- ..or had to hide this...

1:06:55 > 1:06:58- ..contributed to his anguish...

1:07:00 > 1:07:02- ..during his final days.

1:07:04 > 1:07:06- It was a shock for everyone - in Wales...

1:07:07 > 1:07:09- ..when they realized.

1:07:09 > 1:07:12- It was also a shock for people - outside Wales...

1:07:12 > 1:07:16- ..in the other countries - where people admired him.

1:07:26 > 1:07:28- You hated yourself, didn't you?

1:07:31 > 1:07:33- Your skin was covered in sores.

1:07:35 > 1:07:39- Your eyes were dark pools of pain.

1:07:41 > 1:07:45- You hated yourself because - you had to suffer loneliness.

1:07:46 > 1:07:50- All alone, suffering without love.

1:07:54 > 1:07:57- Suffering to the point of insanity.

1:08:02 > 1:08:05- Lots of things in Wales - are kept quiet.

1:08:05 > 1:08:09- Nobody knows anything about them.

1:08:09 > 1:08:12- Be far better - if things are not bottled up.

1:08:12 > 1:08:15- I think we ought to be more open.

1:08:17 > 1:08:20- It would give more people - a chance...

1:08:20 > 1:08:23- ..to live their life - as they would like to.

1:08:28 > 1:08:32- We are too ready to criticize and...

1:08:34 > 1:08:37- ..not see - the other person's point of view.

1:08:39 > 1:08:42- We're not supposed to criticize.

1:08:48 > 1:08:51- Of course, - they say life is what you make it.

1:08:53 > 1:08:55- Not with everybody.

1:08:57 > 1:08:59- PANTING

1:09:03 > 1:09:07- A yellow flower on white petals. - Narcissus.

1:09:10 > 1:09:11- I'm scared.

1:09:12 > 1:09:15- Scared that I can't love.

1:09:15 > 1:09:18- I can't love anyone... - except myself.

1:09:22 > 1:09:25- Scared of the great void.

1:09:27 > 1:09:30- I'm going to leave this world - having never loved.

1:09:32 > 1:09:33- Without being loved.

1:09:47 > 1:09:50- Don't. Leave me alone.

1:09:51 > 1:09:53- Leave me in peace.

1:10:08 > 1:10:10- SOBBING

1:10:24 > 1:10:26- Yes, it was weird.

1:10:26 > 1:10:29- He was very sad - with the way everything turned out.

1:10:30 > 1:10:32- In the end.

1:10:32 > 1:10:35- He was exhausted that Christmas.

1:10:35 > 1:10:39- He was totally exhausted. - He said he needed a break.

1:10:39 > 1:10:43- He realized he had a week - when he could go away.

1:10:44 > 1:10:47- He wanted to go - to the Caribbean sun.

1:10:47 > 1:10:51- I think it would have helped - his skin.

1:10:51 > 1:10:53- But he couldn't...

1:10:54 > 1:10:58- Brenda, who worked with Gareth - Price, tried to book him a holiday.

1:10:59 > 1:11:02- She couldn't get him a place - in the Caribbean.

1:11:02 > 1:11:06- Brenda asked him - if he fancied going to Amsterdam.

1:11:06 > 1:11:08- It wasn't too far from Cardiff.

1:11:08 > 1:11:12- That's what happened. - That's how he went to Amsterdam.

1:11:34 > 1:11:38- A man past fifty sees clearly...

1:11:38 > 1:11:41- ..the people and community - that shaped his life.

1:11:43 > 1:11:46- Nothing remains today - in the back of the mind...

1:11:47 > 1:11:52- ..except family, neighbourhood, - sacrifice and man's suffering.

1:11:54 > 1:11:56- Man's suffering.

1:12:12 > 1:12:16- Make the most of this moment, - my son.

1:12:16 > 1:12:19- You might never get another chance.

1:12:29 > 1:12:42- Carwyn James died in an - Amsterdam hotel on January 10, 1983

1:13:32 > 1:13:35- S4C Subtitles by Simian 04 Cyf.

1:13:35 > 1:13:35- .