0:00:00 > 0:00:01US society and its military.
0:00:01 > 0:00:03This special documentary makes reference to some distressing
0:00:03 > 0:00:04historical events.
0:00:06 > 0:00:08This is a story about the word "hero".
0:00:08 > 0:00:09Who uses it?
0:00:09 > 0:00:10Who's called it?
0:00:10 > 0:00:13Less than 1% of Americans served in Iraq and Afghanistan, but the
0:00:13 > 0:00:17support for them is unequivocal.
0:00:17 > 0:00:19They are lauded in speeches, they are thanked for their service,
0:00:19 > 0:00:28they are called heroes.
0:00:28 > 0:00:29To honour you, the heroes.
0:00:29 > 0:00:31So why are some vets pushing back against this?
0:00:31 > 0:00:37Many veterans of our generation really balk
0:00:37 > 0:00:40at the term hero, saying, no, I was just doing my job.
0:00:40 > 0:00:41I've done it, I've stopped doing it.
0:00:41 > 0:00:44We don't need parades and celebrations, we need people to give
0:00:44 > 0:00:46us an opportunity when we come home.
0:00:46 > 0:00:48It often makes the veterans themselves feel uncomfortable.
0:00:48 > 0:00:50I'd be embarrassed if someone called me a hero
0:00:50 > 0:00:53for joining the Marine Corps.
0:00:53 > 0:01:00There's also a sense of guilt that comes with it, I think.
0:01:00 > 0:01:01They worry the word is becoming devalued.
0:01:01 > 0:01:03That it takes away from true heroes.
0:01:03 > 0:01:05That it obscures real issues that need to be addressed.
0:01:05 > 0:01:07But what does this mean for the relationship
0:01:07 > 0:01:12between civilians and veterans?
0:01:12 > 0:01:16Are we going to push back too hard that we swing the other way, where
0:01:16 > 0:01:18it's like, well, screw you guys?
0:01:25 > 0:01:28I had a close friend, we had children exactly the same age, so,
0:01:28 > 0:01:32you know, Barry and I helped coach the soccer team together.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35We knew each other for about eight or ten years.
0:01:35 > 0:01:44Sleepovers with the kids overnight.
0:01:44 > 0:01:46One evening, the wives were talking and realised their husbands
0:01:46 > 0:01:48had both been Marines in Vietnam.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50We were both Marines in Vietnam and didn't know it
0:01:50 > 0:01:51for eight or ten years.
0:01:51 > 0:01:53That was the atmosphere back then.
0:01:53 > 0:01:55We never talked about being in the Vietnam War.
0:01:55 > 0:01:57You kept your mouth shut.
0:01:57 > 0:02:00Did society use the word hero at all?
0:02:00 > 0:02:02How was it used in the context?
0:02:02 > 0:02:13No.
0:02:13 > 0:02:16# How beautiful our heroes proved #.
0:02:16 > 0:02:18It's to the country's credit they don't do that any more.
0:02:18 > 0:02:20The pendulum may have swung too far.
0:02:20 > 0:02:22Now everybody is a hero instead of a villain.
0:02:22 > 0:02:23That's not true either.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26I think all of them, all the veterans are here
0:02:26 > 0:02:31because they volunteer alone, just to keep our safety here back home.
0:02:31 > 0:02:34That's why we have Veterans Day, to celebrate the heroes and they can
0:02:34 > 0:02:36talk about them and raise them up.
0:02:36 > 0:02:38It's someone who puts their country ahead of themselves.
0:02:38 > 0:02:39Are they heroes to you?
0:02:39 > 0:02:44Absolutely, everyday of the week.
0:02:44 > 0:02:47There's this thing that's been happening over the past few years,
0:02:47 > 0:02:49where you get veterans becoming more vocal and pushing back
0:02:49 > 0:02:57on the hero label.
0:02:57 > 0:02:59It's really important that veterans, we make this messy.
0:02:59 > 0:03:01We make those conversations messy and complicated and nuanced,
0:03:01 > 0:03:03because that's what people are.
0:03:04 > 0:03:07OK, so I'm a veteran, I served with the Marine Corps in Iraq back during
0:03:07 > 0:03:09the beginning of the war in 2003.
0:03:09 > 0:03:13And I do find these messy conversation is really difficult,
0:03:13 > 0:03:15And I do find these messy conversations really difficult,
0:03:15 > 0:03:18it's like sometimes you don't know what way to think,
0:03:18 > 0:03:19it's like a tug of war.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22That happens a lot, especially when someone thanks you for your service.
0:03:22 > 0:03:27This is what goes through my mind.
0:03:27 > 0:03:30I get snapped out of the moment and there's this intense flood
0:03:30 > 0:03:32of memories about what it meant to serve,
0:03:32 > 0:03:34the good times, the hardships, what it meant for my family.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37I think of the Marines I knew who didn't come home.
0:03:37 > 0:03:40And I realise I'm expected to respond, but what do I say?
0:03:40 > 0:03:43I want to do those memories justice but that would mean sitting down and
0:03:43 > 0:03:49talking for hours with a stranger.
0:03:49 > 0:03:51But then that feels like I'm not doing all those intense
0:03:51 > 0:03:53memories justice and I feel guilty.
0:03:53 > 0:03:55Then I feel ungrateful.
0:03:56 > 0:04:03You can sniff out very quickly where the impetus behind the question is
0:04:03 > 0:04:11coming from and if it's coming from a flippant or shallow place, that's
0:04:11 > 0:04:14deeply frustrating, but if it's coming from an earnest place,
0:04:14 > 0:04:15genuine place, maybe they don't
0:04:15 > 0:04:16know what else to do.
0:04:16 > 0:04:20A lot of us say, don't call us hero, don't thank us for our service,
0:04:20 > 0:04:25you feel awkward when somebody says that to you, which I totally get.
0:04:25 > 0:04:29The same token, are we going to push back too hard that we swing the
0:04:29 > 0:04:31other way where it's like, screw you
0:04:31 > 0:04:33other way where it's like, screw you guys?
0:04:33 > 0:04:37Last year there was a big survey of veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan.
0:04:37 > 0:04:3842% said they didn't think civilian respect
0:04:38 > 0:04:39for the military was genuine.
0:04:39 > 0:04:41About 70% said they often felt misunderstood.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44But almost the same number also said they felt appreciated.
0:04:44 > 0:04:51So that's what makes this so complex.
0:04:51 > 0:04:53These are people's lives we are talking about
0:04:53 > 0:04:58and how we interpret, we as civilians interpret, their
0:04:58 > 0:05:01lives, impacts them and their ability to carry forward on a daily
0:05:01 > 0:05:02basis.
0:05:02 > 0:05:06He was a councillor to veterans and he also studies heroism.
0:05:06 > 0:05:09Veterans are not fragile people, but they have had very complex
0:05:09 > 0:05:12experiences so we need to be a society that is in conversation with
0:05:12 > 0:05:18our veterans, not telling them, you are a hero, or you are not a hero.
0:05:22 > 0:05:24Let's start at the beginning.
0:05:24 > 0:05:26The dictionary defines hero as an illustrious warrior,
0:05:26 > 0:05:29one that shows great courage.
0:05:29 > 0:05:34But I wanted to know where our idea of what a hero is even came from.
0:05:34 > 0:05:38What I started doing when I was researching heroes was to go back to
0:05:38 > 0:05:40the ancient Greeks, in particular to Achilles, and the Trojan War.
0:05:40 > 0:05:44Achilles is the kind of hero par excellence.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47He is the best warrior, the fastest, he tears through the enemy.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50He's not doing it on behalf of someone else, for him,
0:05:50 > 0:06:00the idea is simply to be great.
0:06:00 > 0:06:02Fast forward 800 years.
0:06:02 > 0:06:03To a jail cell.
0:06:03 > 0:06:08Socrates on trial for practising philosophy.
0:06:08 > 0:06:12It's where he turns down an opportunity to escape.
0:06:12 > 0:06:16He says, I have to follow the laws, I want to lead by example
0:06:16 > 0:06:19in some sense, show people they are wrong about what they think, about
0:06:20 > 0:06:23philosophy, that it's dangerous.
0:06:23 > 0:06:27He says, I have to do this for them, but also for future philosophers.
0:06:27 > 0:06:31He sacrifices his life for other people, for an ideal,
0:06:31 > 0:06:33that is where Cohen thinks our modern interpretation
0:06:33 > 0:06:37of heroism comes from.
0:06:37 > 0:06:43Even in war it's not enough for us now to go and kill 50 people,
0:06:43 > 0:06:52right, that's very impressive, that an Achilles level of impressive.
0:06:52 > 0:06:55But we even want our great warriors to end up sacrificing for others.
0:06:55 > 0:06:56The criteria have shrunk.
0:06:56 > 0:06:59But the usage of the word seems to be growing.
0:06:59 > 0:07:02Right, I think that's exactly right.
0:07:02 > 0:07:05OK, so that's the Socrates hero story, and it's pretty cut and dry,
0:07:05 > 0:07:10he's just a really selfless guy.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13Here's a more complicated story and it starts with the idea that
0:07:13 > 0:07:17you never hear people say they actually want to become a hero or
0:07:17 > 0:07:20that they want to earn medals.
0:07:20 > 0:07:22But that's exactly what was on the mind of 22-year-old
0:07:22 > 0:07:25Marine Karl Marlantes in 1968.
0:07:25 > 0:07:28My guess is if a young man doesn't think about
0:07:28 > 0:07:31doing something heroic in battle, I think it would be highly unusual.
0:07:31 > 0:07:32Of course I thought about it.
0:07:32 > 0:07:41I imagine you'd like to be John Wayne, too.
0:07:41 > 0:07:44But as it turned out, that desire would haunt him
0:07:44 > 0:07:45for the rest of his life.
0:07:45 > 0:07:50The Bronze Star was on an assault and I was the company XO.
0:07:52 > 0:07:56As the rifle company moved forward, Karl heard a young Marine cry out
0:07:56 > 0:07:57that he'd been hit.
0:07:57 > 0:08:04I had the idea, you know, I can go get him.
0:08:04 > 0:08:07There was a double motive, the first motive was I really liked
0:08:07 > 0:08:11this guy, had to get him out from the machine gun, that was noble.
0:08:11 > 0:08:14The second, I thought it would be pretty neat if I got a medal.
0:08:14 > 0:08:17It occurred to me, I went, whoa!
0:08:17 > 0:08:21Karl charged up the hill alone.
0:08:21 > 0:08:24He kept firing to keep the enemy machine gunners at bay.
0:08:24 > 0:08:26And when he reached the wounded Marine, Karl pulled him
0:08:26 > 0:08:27down the hill to safety.
0:08:27 > 0:08:36Then the medic arrived.
0:08:36 > 0:08:42I still get quite sad about this after all these years.
0:08:42 > 0:08:48I remember Yankee trying to give him artificial respiration and the kid
0:08:48 > 0:08:55was vomiting, so Yankee would get vomit and spit from it out and blow
0:08:55 > 0:08:58was vomiting, so Yankee would get vomit and spit vomit out and blow
0:08:58 > 0:09:00air into him and suck vomit out.
0:09:00 > 0:09:03Then Doc Yankee looked at me and he said oh no.
0:09:03 > 0:09:05And he pulled the kid's head back and there was
0:09:05 > 0:09:07a bullet hole right in his head.
0:09:07 > 0:09:09He said, he's not going to make it.
0:09:09 > 0:09:12That night, it occurred to me that he had said, I'm hit.
0:09:12 > 0:09:15How could he say "I'm hit" with a bullet in his head?
0:09:16 > 0:09:24There was no way I could find out.
0:09:24 > 0:09:27If, in fact, the bullet in his head hadn't been the one I
0:09:27 > 0:09:30put there when I was trying to keep the machine gunners down.
0:09:30 > 0:09:32And I'll never know to this day.
0:09:32 > 0:09:36The lesson drawn from that is, I would feel way less sad about it,
0:09:36 > 0:09:44conflicted about it, if I'd done it from totally pure motives.
0:09:44 > 0:09:47Then I realised they would give me a Bronze Star for it and I said I
0:09:47 > 0:09:50had mixed feelings, because I may have gotten this medal
0:09:50 > 0:09:58because I did something that ended up killing a guy.
0:09:58 > 0:10:03A few months later, Karl would earn another medal,
0:10:03 > 0:10:05the second-highest a Marine can receive, the Navy Cross.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07But in this case, Achilles would become Socrates.
0:10:07 > 0:10:11Again, his unit was on the assault, but they were pinned down.
0:10:11 > 0:10:14Karl ran out all by himself to clear the enemy bunkers, but suddenly he
0:10:14 > 0:10:16realised he was no longer alone.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19Off to the side came one of his men.
0:10:19 > 0:10:22I looked behind him and all the marines were coming up behind me.
0:10:22 > 0:10:28The whole line.
0:10:28 > 0:10:32I mean, to this day I get emotional about it, because to see all these
0:10:32 > 0:10:33kids just coming up that hill.
0:10:33 > 0:10:37We hit the line of bunkers and we took the hill.
0:10:37 > 0:10:41The massive difference between getting the Navy Cross
0:10:41 > 0:10:44and that Bronze Star is that I was just trying to get us out
0:10:44 > 0:10:52of a pickle, I was trying to figure out how to save people.
0:10:52 > 0:10:53It's your motivations that are what's
0:10:53 > 0:10:57really important about heroism.
0:10:57 > 0:11:05More than the deed itself.
0:11:07 > 0:11:09In October, I travelled to Boston, and this happened
0:11:09 > 0:11:13in the city's main park.
0:11:13 > 0:11:15It was a gathering of over half the living congressional medal
0:11:15 > 0:11:17of honour recipients.
0:11:17 > 0:11:27There are only 78.
0:11:27 > 0:11:33It is the military's highest, most public award.
0:11:33 > 0:11:37You know, I feel like I'm not a hero, you know, I didn't do anything
0:11:37 > 0:11:37more
0:11:37 > 0:11:40heroic than 52 other guys who were with me that day on the battlefield.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44The eight guys who never made it home, those guys were the heroes.
0:11:44 > 0:11:46Clint received the medal for his actions when 400 Taliban fighters
0:11:46 > 0:11:47attacked his outpost in 2009.
0:11:47 > 0:11:51Never in a million years did I ever think I'd be wearing this little
0:11:51 > 0:11:54blue ribbon of silk around my neck, it's the farthest from your mind.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57So when it happens it's very you know, emotional, very, just,
0:11:57 > 0:12:01a a lot of stuff happening at once.
0:12:01 > 0:12:05It's kind of hard to process, as much as you'd like to travel all
0:12:05 > 0:12:07over the US, talk to everybody, shake everyone's hand, you still
0:12:07 > 0:12:12have a lot back on the home front you need to take care of.
0:12:14 > 0:12:18The psychologist we met earlier says what's complex
0:12:18 > 0:12:21about heroism is that it's an intensely private act, but it
0:12:21 > 0:12:24also becomes intensely public, too.
0:12:24 > 0:12:28They have to make a choice, literally, often go or no-go.
0:12:28 > 0:12:31That's a very personal choice in that moment, they take the next
0:12:31 > 0:12:32action they see is necessary.
0:12:32 > 0:12:35Then people label them a hero and they say, I didn't do anything
0:12:35 > 0:12:41heroic, I just did the next thing.
0:12:41 > 0:12:44Medal of honour recipients don't have a choice if their actions are
0:12:44 > 0:12:49known or not, but other veterans do.
0:12:49 > 0:12:52The story of one begins with a Vietnam vet.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55My name is Walter Robinson, I write for the Boston Globe,
0:12:55 > 0:12:58where I've worked since 1972.
0:12:58 > 0:13:01Because he's a veteran, he's kind of a go to guy when
0:13:01 > 0:13:03a story involves military records.
0:13:03 > 0:13:05In the fall 2014, a Marine veteran of Iraq was running
0:13:05 > 0:13:14for Congress in Massachusetts.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17Walter called a campaign consultant so he could take a look at Moulton's
0:13:17 > 0:13:18military record.
0:13:18 > 0:13:19The campaign huddled and said, is there anything
0:13:19 > 0:13:22in it we should be worried about?
0:13:22 > 0:13:24As we found out later, the consultant didn't know
0:13:24 > 0:13:29what was in those records.
0:13:29 > 0:13:40I got the record, which indicated that on two separate
0:13:40 > 0:13:42occasions he had been decorated for some valiant action under fire
0:13:42 > 0:13:46in combat, leading his men in Iraq.
0:13:46 > 0:13:56It turned out no one in the public or
0:13:56 > 0:13:58on the campaign staff knew about the awards, except for Moulton's
0:13:58 > 0:14:00campaign manager, who was also a Marine.
0:14:00 > 0:14:03At one point, not even his parents knew of the medal.
0:14:03 > 0:14:04In a way, we caught him.
0:14:04 > 0:14:10I mean, in an odd way.
0:14:10 > 0:14:14Not taking credit for something that he damn well
0:14:14 > 0:14:15deserved to take credit for.
0:14:15 > 0:14:18It was very apparent from the beginning that he was
0:14:18 > 0:14:19uncomfortable talking about it.
0:14:19 > 0:14:21I'm curious if you remember the moment that you
0:14:21 > 0:14:24found out you were going to be awarded the Bronze Star and how it
0:14:24 > 0:14:26made you feel in the moment?
0:14:26 > 0:14:27To be very honest, I don't remember it.
0:14:27 > 0:14:30You know, it's not such a big deal in
0:14:30 > 0:14:38the military, because we were just doing what we thought was right.
0:14:39 > 0:14:41Do people call you a hero?
0:14:41 > 0:14:47I mean, some people do, sometimes my colleagues in Congress
0:14:47 > 0:14:50refer to me as a war hero, I don't think that's true.
0:14:50 > 0:14:54I know they are doing it to be nice, but it honestly makes me feel
0:14:54 > 0:14:55a bit uncomfortable.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58Why do you think it's a bigger deal to civilians?
0:14:58 > 0:15:02I think that they lot of Americans who don't have a real connection to
0:15:02 > 0:15:05the troops are looking for something to grasp onto.
0:15:05 > 0:15:07Something to celebrate.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10Frankly, we don't need that as veterans, we don't need parades and
0:15:10 > 0:15:13celebrations, we need people to give us an opportunity when we come home.
0:15:16 > 0:15:19I think one of the problems with the wars we've been involved in
0:15:19 > 0:15:22for the past decade or so is that all the sacrifice is borne
0:15:22 > 0:15:26by the troops and their families.
0:15:27 > 0:15:31If more Americans were involved, asked to participate in some way,
0:15:31 > 0:15:34there probably wouldn't be this sense of guilt, where we always have
0:15:34 > 0:15:36to be super conscious of protecting the troops and doing
0:15:36 > 0:15:42what's right for the troops.
0:15:42 > 0:15:45Not that doing what's right for the troops is wrong,
0:15:45 > 0:15:48that's exactly what we should be doing, but there's almost a sense
0:15:48 > 0:15:50of guilt that comes with it.
0:15:50 > 0:15:53For many civilians.
0:15:56 > 0:16:02I met a veteran who actually did have post-traumatic stress.
0:16:02 > 0:16:04And he said, you know, I don't tell stories about Iraq
0:16:04 > 0:16:07because the only stories people want to hear is about the worst thing
0:16:07 > 0:16:13that ever happened to me.
0:16:13 > 0:16:16There's this idea that some veterans have that they feel they can only
0:16:16 > 0:16:19talk about the stories they think people want to hear,
0:16:19 > 0:16:22stories that are really exciting, really violent, really funny.
0:16:22 > 0:16:25But they are actually not the stories that mean the most to
0:16:25 > 0:16:28the veterans themselves.
0:16:28 > 0:16:33A few months ago I met with three veterans who are all writers,
0:16:33 > 0:16:38they belong to a group called "Words After War".
0:16:38 > 0:16:41Phil Klay even won the National Book Award last year for
0:16:41 > 0:16:42his collection of short stories.
0:16:42 > 0:16:44So they know a thing or two about narratives.
0:16:44 > 0:16:47What is the story you think people want to hear,
0:16:47 > 0:16:49civilians want to hear, coming out of veterans when they come home?
0:16:49 > 0:16:52And what's the story you think they should hear?
0:16:52 > 0:16:57It's interesting because it's changed over time.
0:16:57 > 0:17:01So, early on, there was a particular sort of guy that I seemed to keep
0:17:01 > 0:17:05meeting, who, when he found out I was in the Marine Corps would ask,
0:17:05 > 0:17:08you ever shoot those big guns that could kill somebody from far away?
0:17:08 > 0:17:12And would want the exciting, aggressive stories.
0:17:12 > 0:17:18At a certain point I realised that kind of expectation had shifted
0:17:18 > 0:17:21and what I tended to be getting in New York much more often was
0:17:21 > 0:17:28people assuming I was broken.
0:17:28 > 0:17:32I remember when I came back I definitely wanted to get
0:17:32 > 0:17:35the assurance that what I did was masculine, so I would tell
0:17:35 > 0:17:38the stories about being down range.
0:17:38 > 0:17:42Now, stories that mean the most to me are the times where the sun is
0:17:42 > 0:17:51just coming over Kandahar and I know the day is going to be crazy,
0:17:51 > 0:17:54but there's that lull in the battle and I get that peace to myself.
0:17:54 > 0:17:57The problem is that many veterans find it hard to share
0:17:57 > 0:17:58these deeply personal stories.
0:17:58 > 0:18:00Because so few back home have served.
0:18:00 > 0:18:02We, as veterans, have a responsibility to meet
0:18:02 > 0:18:03people halfway.
0:18:03 > 0:18:07A small number of people have a big responsibility, it seems like.
0:18:07 > 0:18:10Absolutely.
0:18:10 > 0:18:12It greatly limits the direct connection that everyday
0:18:12 > 0:18:15Americans have with these wars.
0:18:15 > 0:18:18Not just, well, it's not my son or daughter any more.
0:18:18 > 0:18:25It's not even the kid down the street any more.
0:18:25 > 0:18:26You call that folding?
0:18:26 > 0:18:29Where's that military precision?
0:18:29 > 0:18:35You don't fold that many onesies in the Navy.
0:18:36 > 0:18:40This is US sitcom Modern Family.
0:18:40 > 0:18:43And this is Jay, who sometimes brings up the fact he's a Navy
0:18:43 > 0:18:45veteran. I wasn't worried, I boxed in the Navy.
0:18:45 > 0:18:51And that's it.
0:18:51 > 0:18:54Jay in Modern Family is a prime example of a neutralised portrayal
0:18:54 > 0:18:54of a veteran.
0:18:54 > 0:18:58He is just the guy next door, who you happen to find out served
0:18:58 > 0:18:58in the Navy.
0:18:58 > 0:19:00You want to see more of that?
0:19:00 > 0:19:00Yeah.
0:19:00 > 0:19:03I mean, that's what we need to get away from broken hero.
0:19:03 > 0:19:05Folks need to know that veterans are literally your neighbour.
0:19:05 > 0:19:09Kate was a soldier in Iraq and now she's with an advocacy group
0:19:09 > 0:19:09which pushes for more realistic portrayals of veterans.
0:19:10 > 0:19:13Do you think Hollywood has a responsibility to do this could
0:19:13 > 0:19:18Do you think Hollywood has a responsibility to do this?
0:19:18 > 0:19:20I almost think that the media has a responsibility to
0:19:21 > 0:19:22change the portrayal of veterans.
0:19:22 > 0:19:24I worked at the Department of veterans affairs and there was
0:19:24 > 0:19:28a point in time, 2012, every other week we were writing a story pushing
0:19:28 > 0:19:30back on the narrative that veterans were ticking time bombs.
0:19:30 > 0:19:32That all veterans suffer from PTSD.
0:19:32 > 0:19:32TBI.
0:19:32 > 0:19:33It really took hold in the media.
0:19:33 > 0:19:35It has a huge impact on today's veterans.
0:19:35 > 0:19:38While I was reporting this story, I was e-mailing with a friend
0:19:38 > 0:19:40about the themes I was exploring.
0:19:40 > 0:19:42And at one point she sent me this message,
0:19:42 > 0:19:44it really kind of shocked me.
0:19:44 > 0:19:47That's because I use the word civilian all the time, but I never
0:19:47 > 0:19:49thought about it quite like this.
0:19:50 > 0:19:56I remember when I first even became aware of that word.
0:19:56 > 0:19:59It made me feel like this other, like I was on a different planet
0:19:59 > 0:20:00and would never understand war.
0:20:00 > 0:20:07And that's true.
0:20:07 > 0:20:10But that idea of civilian life, a life form so separate
0:20:10 > 0:20:13and ignorant and sheltered from the experience of war, I don't know,
0:20:13 > 0:20:14it makes me feel really distant.
0:20:14 > 0:20:15It makes me feel funny.
0:20:15 > 0:20:21And it makes me feel guilty.
0:20:21 > 0:20:25Our civilian friends may just not get what we did or why we did it.
0:20:25 > 0:20:26That's OK.
0:20:26 > 0:20:30Veterans can be frustrated with the lack of differentiation that
0:20:30 > 0:20:34civilians make towards the veteran community, it's just
0:20:34 > 0:20:37as easy for veterans to keep the civilian community at a distance.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40What I do think, over time, it will be a problem in America
0:20:40 > 0:20:43if fewer and fewer people serve.
0:20:43 > 0:20:45And, therefore, a greater number of Americans have
0:20:45 > 0:20:47no connection, real connection from emotional connection,
0:20:47 > 0:20:54understanding, deep understanding.
0:20:54 > 0:20:56If everybody's a hero, it trivialises something that
0:20:56 > 0:21:00society really needs.
0:21:00 > 0:21:03It's a really subjective thing and it's not a comfortable one.
0:21:03 > 0:21:05I don't think there can be a clear, coherent answer.
0:21:06 > 0:21:07I don't think there should be.
0:21:07 > 0:21:10If we start losing our heroes, then we're really going to be lost
0:21:10 > 0:21:12as a society.
0:21:43 > 0:21:43Good
0:21:43 > 0:21:45Good evening.
0:21:45 > 0:21:45Good evening. Abigail
0:21:45 > 0:21:45Good evening. Abigail is