0:00:00 > 0:00:00- Subtitles
0:00:00 > 0:00:02- Subtitles- - Subtitles
0:00:24 > 0:00:26- # 666
0:00:26 > 0:00:29- # The number of the beast
0:00:29 > 0:00:34- # Hell and fire - was spawned to be released #
0:00:37 > 0:00:43- Superstition is part of the lives - of many, we might as well admit.
0:00:43 > 0:00:47- Many old beliefs stem - from the instinctive human need...
0:00:47 > 0:00:52- ..for protection from the forces of - evil, the devil and evil spirits...
0:00:52 > 0:00:56- ..that cause disease, - disaster and bad luck.
0:00:57 > 0:01:01- That need is - as old as human history.
0:01:04 > 0:01:06- The obvious starting point...
0:01:07 > 0:01:12- ..to the story of mankind's bond - with magic and sorcery, is the well.
0:01:12 > 0:01:17- The belief that the water - of wells has magical properties...
0:01:18 > 0:01:20- ..goes back thousands of years.
0:01:21 > 0:01:26- There's a healing well that - dates back to the 6th century...
0:01:26 > 0:01:30- ..although it was - probably used long before that...
0:01:31 > 0:01:34- ..in Penmon, - on Anglesey's eastern shore.
0:01:36 > 0:01:41- During the 6th century, St Seiriol's - hermit cell was situated here...
0:01:41 > 0:01:44- ..or so the story goes.
0:01:44 > 0:01:46- The remains are still visible.
0:01:46 > 0:01:52- Imagine him, sat here, gritting - his teeth against the gales.
0:01:52 > 0:01:57- They say this is the earliest - Christian building in Wales.
0:01:57 > 0:02:01- Over there, there's - a medieval well chamber.
0:02:01 > 0:02:04- Let's see if there's water in it.
0:02:11 > 0:02:13- There's about a foot of water here.
0:02:13 > 0:02:17- Shells and pennies - have been thrown in.
0:02:22 > 0:02:24- This is St Seiriol's well.
0:02:25 > 0:02:30- There are hundreds of wells - all over Wales, dedicated to saints.
0:02:31 > 0:02:37- But these wells were here - long before any saint was born.
0:02:37 > 0:02:43- And the belief in their mystic - powers goes back just as far.
0:02:46 > 0:02:52- To our Celtic ancestors, water - sprang from the other world...
0:02:52 > 0:02:54- ..and linked that world to this one.
0:02:56 > 0:03:01- When Christianity came to Britain - late in the 4th century...
0:03:01 > 0:03:06- ..the church didn't usurp - the old pagan sites and rituals.
0:03:06 > 0:03:09- It adopted and adapted them.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12- Many of the old beliefs survived...
0:03:12 > 0:03:14- ..but "under new management".
0:03:14 > 0:03:19- Now, Almighty God was the source - of the water and its magic...
0:03:19 > 0:03:22- ..not those lesser gods - of the netherworld.
0:03:27 > 0:03:29- To all purposes...
0:03:29 > 0:03:34- ..the medieval church dressed - paganism in Christian clothing.
0:03:35 > 0:03:39- Here in Clynnog Fawr, as in - all the ancient churches in Wales...
0:03:40 > 0:03:45- ..the faithful were told - about the miracles of the saints...
0:03:45 > 0:03:49- ..and the mystical - properties of relics.
0:03:49 > 0:03:54- Relics might be saints' bones, - or part of Christ's cross.
0:03:54 > 0:03:59- In Clynnog, one relic - has survived to this day...
0:03:59 > 0:04:01- ..Maen Beuno.
0:04:02 > 0:04:08- It is said that St Beuno - carved the cross with his thumb.
0:04:08 > 0:04:12- It's black, because - over the centuries...
0:04:12 > 0:04:16- ..pilgrims went like this - with their thumbs...
0:04:17 > 0:04:21- ..using wax, probably - from a church candle.
0:04:25 > 0:04:29- As well as learning about - the relics' magical properties...
0:04:30 > 0:04:36- ..people took part in mystical - rites like Communion and Mass...
0:04:36 > 0:04:39- ..where chanting - and incense was used.
0:04:43 > 0:04:48- The church offered all kinds - of magic and rites to use in life.
0:04:48 > 0:04:53- For example, there was a rite to - purify a woman after giving birth...
0:04:53 > 0:04:55- ..to note her new role...
0:04:56 > 0:05:00- ..as a mother, and the resumption of - sexual relations with her husband.
0:05:01 > 0:05:06- The church had charms - like rosary beads and crosses...
0:05:06 > 0:05:11- ..and the priests gave prayers and - blessings for all kinds of things.
0:05:11 > 0:05:17- They used the communion - silver plates to heal ailments.
0:05:18 > 0:05:23- It was very difficult to draw - a line between magic and religion.
0:05:26 > 0:05:31- Now, the priest filled the role - of the druid and his magic.
0:05:31 > 0:05:35- He was responsible - for the mystical communion...
0:05:35 > 0:05:39- ..between this world - and the other world.
0:05:39 > 0:05:45- The medieval church was - a depository of magical powers.
0:05:45 > 0:05:48- But during - the Protestant Reformation...
0:05:49 > 0:05:54- ..the medieval church was stripped - of all the customs and rites...
0:05:54 > 0:05:59- ..the very things people believed - that defended them from misfortune.
0:06:02 > 0:06:05- But the forces - of evil still existed...
0:06:06 > 0:06:10- ..causing tragedies, - illness and bad luck.
0:06:10 > 0:06:14- Now that the church's magic - seemed to have disappeared...
0:06:14 > 0:06:17- ..to whom or what would people turn?
0:06:17 > 0:06:22- The white witch and the cunning man - stepped into the breach...
0:06:22 > 0:06:27- ..and a totally unexpected result - of the Protestant Reformation...
0:06:28 > 0:06:32- ..was that thousands of people - were driven back to magic!
0:06:32 > 0:06:37- The Dyn Hysbys, the cunning man, - was knowledgeable in sorcery...
0:06:37 > 0:06:40- ..charms, magic, - plants, the universe.
0:06:41 > 0:06:46- Some of them achieved - a sort of celebrity status.
0:06:47 > 0:06:51- One of the most famous - cunning men in Wales...
0:06:51 > 0:06:53- ..was poet Huw Llwyd of Cynfal.
0:06:53 > 0:06:58- He lived here in Cwm Cynfal, - near Llan Ffestiniog...
0:06:58 > 0:07:01- ..between circa 1568 and 1630.
0:07:01 > 0:07:05- Because he was the seventh son - of a seventh son....
0:07:05 > 0:07:09- ..people believed - he could foresee the future.
0:07:10 > 0:07:14- Huw had been a soldier - in a Welsh regiment...
0:07:14 > 0:07:18- ..in Charles I's army, - fighting in Europe against Spain.
0:07:18 > 0:07:22- This made him a man - of strong character...
0:07:22 > 0:07:27- ..used to leading - and able to influence people.
0:07:27 > 0:07:31- These were very useful - talents for a cunning man.
0:07:33 > 0:07:38- Huw also had a thorough - knowledge of herbal medicines.
0:07:38 > 0:07:43- People flocked from far and near - to see him for treatment.
0:07:43 > 0:07:47- Huw Llwyd gave them - this help here...
0:07:47 > 0:07:51- ..on the rock - in the middle of the gorge.
0:07:51 > 0:07:55- To this day, it's known - as Huw Llwyd's Pulpit.
0:07:55 > 0:08:00- Apparently, he made his patients - stand on the rocky platform...
0:08:00 > 0:08:02- ..at the foot of the pulpit.
0:08:03 > 0:08:07- He stood on the pulpit - in a big, black cloak.
0:08:07 > 0:08:11- He had written mystic - signs in a circle.
0:08:11 > 0:08:15- He would seem to "grab" the demons - that caused the ailments...
0:08:15 > 0:08:20- ..and throw them down the gorge, - over Rhaeadr Du waterfall...
0:08:21 > 0:08:22- ..into oblivion.
0:08:22 > 0:08:24- That's a surgery for you!
0:08:26 > 0:08:32- But some clergymen found the - cunning men's spells and magic...
0:08:32 > 0:08:34- ..very hard to stomach.
0:08:34 > 0:08:39- In the 17th century, - Vicar Rhys Prichard complained...
0:08:40 > 0:08:45- ..that people flocked to the cunning - men, "like bees to a vinetree."
0:08:45 > 0:08:48- While Rhys Prichard and his like...
0:08:48 > 0:08:51- ..were openly hostile - to the cunning men...
0:08:51 > 0:08:55- ..and their spells - and herbal remedies...
0:08:55 > 0:09:00- ..other men of the cloth chose - to embrace the natural world...
0:09:00 > 0:09:02- ..and all its mystic powers.
0:09:02 > 0:09:07- When Hugh Davies finished - researching his book...
0:09:07 > 0:09:10- ..Welsh Botanology, - published in 1815...
0:09:10 > 0:09:16- ..he was the rector of Llandegfan, - Anglesey and Aber, Caernarfonshire.
0:09:18 > 0:09:24- Naturalist Twm Elias sings from - the same hymn sheet as Hugh Davies.
0:09:24 > 0:09:29- Why were clergymen like Hugh - Davies interested in plant life?
0:09:29 > 0:09:32- Well, they had to do - something during the week!
0:09:33 > 0:09:37- After giving their sermon on Sunday, - they needed something to do.
0:09:38 > 0:09:42- They were educated and were - interested in current affairs...
0:09:42 > 0:09:47- ..the natural world and developments - in agriculture and technology.
0:09:47 > 0:09:52- Hugh Davies was - an expert in his field.
0:09:52 > 0:09:54- He did excellent work.
0:09:54 > 0:09:58- I saw that he lists - many names in the book.
0:09:58 > 0:10:00- He was a cataloguer.
0:10:00 > 0:10:05- This was the start - of the new descriptive period.
0:10:05 > 0:10:09- There are many religious names - in the list, like Mair, Mary.
0:10:09 > 0:10:15- I remember writing an article - in Y Naturiaethwr a few years ago.
0:10:15 > 0:10:20- I discovered about 86 plant - names with Mair, Mary, in them.
0:10:20 > 0:10:24- There were over - sixty different species.
0:10:24 > 0:10:29- It's an interesting point. - Why was Mary so important?
0:10:29 > 0:10:31- There seem to be two reasons.
0:10:32 > 0:10:35- Maybe a pretty, - modestly bowed flower...
0:10:35 > 0:10:39- ..reminded people - of the Virgin Mary.
0:10:39 > 0:10:45- But it also put the stamp - of the church and monastery...
0:10:45 > 0:10:47- ..on medicinal plants...
0:10:47 > 0:10:52- ..maybe to hijack - the old pagan, magical images...
0:10:52 > 0:10:55- ..associated with some of them.
0:10:55 > 0:10:59- In Hugh Davies's day and before, - plants were medicine.
0:10:59 > 0:11:04- In the old days, people used what - was around them. They were free.
0:11:05 > 0:11:10- People had to pay a doctor, - so they used things that were free.
0:11:10 > 0:11:12- Everyone used plants.
0:11:12 > 0:11:15- But some things needed - the special skills...
0:11:16 > 0:11:18- ..of the white witch - or cunning folk.
0:11:18 > 0:11:21- They had secret recipes.
0:11:22 > 0:11:26- They were common materials, - but the recipe was secret.
0:11:26 > 0:11:30- They couldn't earn a living - if everyone knew the recipe!
0:11:30 > 0:11:33- Didn't that give them more mystique?
0:11:33 > 0:11:38- The psychological element, - the belief in the medicine...
0:11:38 > 0:11:43- ..was an essential part - of the way it worked.
0:11:43 > 0:11:47- Twm, I occasionally - suffer from an ailment...
0:11:47 > 0:11:52- ..often on Saturday morning, - a headache and stomach ache.
0:11:52 > 0:11:53- Can you suggest something?
0:11:53 > 0:11:55- Can you suggest something?- - As it happens, I do. Try this.
0:11:56 > 0:11:59- Chamomile tea. - There's nothing better.
0:11:59 > 0:12:04- Marvellous. Olden herbal - remedies in modern packaging.
0:12:04 > 0:12:05- They're still going.
0:12:05 > 0:12:07- They're still going.- - Why not?
0:12:08 > 0:12:12- Later, I find out about - another famous cunning man.
0:12:12 > 0:12:16- And I try to discover - if elements of sorcery...
0:12:17 > 0:12:19- ..still exist in our society.
0:12:19 > 0:12:19- .
0:12:25 > 0:12:25- Subtitles
0:12:25 > 0:12:27- Subtitles- - Subtitles
0:12:31 > 0:12:35- The relationship - between magic and religion...
0:12:35 > 0:12:37- ..has always interested me.
0:12:38 > 0:12:42- The conjurer, - white witch and cunning man...
0:12:43 > 0:12:45- ..were a vital part of the story.
0:12:46 > 0:12:50- The papers of Wales's - most famous cunning man...
0:12:50 > 0:12:52- ..John Harries of Cwrt-y-cadno...
0:12:52 > 0:12:56- ..are kept here - in the National Library Of Wales.
0:12:56 > 0:13:00- I've been given special - permission to see them.
0:13:01 > 0:13:06- Here are the documents and books. - What do we have, David?
0:13:06 > 0:13:10- This is a list - of John Harries's patients...
0:13:11 > 0:13:15- ..showing what he gave them - and how much they paid.
0:13:15 > 0:13:19- For example, in 1816, - Thomas Harry Smith of Penrhiw...
0:13:19 > 0:13:23- ..bought a few things, costing - seven shillings and seven pence.
0:13:23 > 0:13:24- That was a lot of money at the time.
0:13:24 > 0:13:25- That was a lot of money at the time.- - Yes.
0:13:26 > 0:13:28- People were ready to pay.
0:13:28 > 0:13:29- They had faith in him.
0:13:29 > 0:13:31- They had faith in him.- - They travelled a long way too.
0:13:31 > 0:13:34- Yes, there are addresses - all over the place.
0:13:35 > 0:13:39- There are hundreds of names. - That's only one book.
0:13:39 > 0:13:41- Here, we have a book of treatments.
0:13:41 > 0:13:49- This shows ingredients, like - mistletoe and cathartic mixture.
0:13:49 > 0:13:51- He didn't only treat medical cases.
0:13:52 > 0:13:54- There were all kinds of requests.
0:13:54 > 0:13:59- People wrote to him - asking for horoscopes.
0:13:59 > 0:14:02- He used astrology and astronomy.
0:14:03 > 0:14:05- For example, here...
0:14:05 > 0:14:07- ..someone writes to him, saying...
0:14:08 > 0:14:12- "..I have wrote to a certain person - and I have spoke to her once.
0:14:12 > 0:14:16- "I do not know is that person - to be my wedded wife or not.
0:14:16 > 0:14:19- "I shall leave it to you to judge.
0:14:19 > 0:14:24- "She lies south ward from where I do - live, about 16 miles distance...
0:14:24 > 0:14:26- "..in Abergavenny."
0:14:26 > 0:14:27- He's the Russell Grant of his day.
0:14:27 > 0:14:30- He's the Russell Grant of his day.- - He's expected to sort it out!
0:14:30 > 0:14:33- This is a kind of horoscope.
0:14:34 > 0:14:39- If people wrote to him - with their personal details...
0:14:39 > 0:14:43- ..John Harries used - documents like this...
0:14:43 > 0:14:45- ..a book of occult symbols.
0:14:45 > 0:14:48- He had quite an extensive library.
0:14:48 > 0:14:54- Here, we have a list - of the books in his library.
0:14:55 > 0:15:00- He had at least 89 books, - which was quite a lot at the time.
0:15:00 > 0:15:02- But one book isn't here...
0:15:02 > 0:15:07- ..the huge, renowned book, that was - always kept under lock and key...
0:15:07 > 0:15:09- ..and even chained too.
0:15:10 > 0:15:11- The book of spells?
0:15:11 > 0:15:12- The book of spells?- - Yes.
0:15:13 > 0:15:15- When people came for advice...
0:15:15 > 0:15:18- ..he put it on the table, - very dramatically.
0:15:19 > 0:15:24- He never opened it, because people - believed that demons lived in it.
0:15:24 > 0:15:29- These books contained power - of some kind, or so people believed.
0:15:30 > 0:15:32- And where is the book now?
0:15:32 > 0:15:34- And where is the book now?- - No-one knows.
0:15:36 > 0:15:39- John Harries lived in Cwrt-y-cadno.
0:15:39 > 0:15:44- Many stories about him - have survived there...
0:15:45 > 0:15:47- ..and all over Carmarthenshire.
0:15:48 > 0:15:52- John Harries appeared in court - here in Llandovery once...
0:15:52 > 0:15:57- ..before the magistrates Llwyd - of Glansefin and Gwyn of Glanbran.
0:15:57 > 0:16:01- He was asked how on earth - he lead the authorities...
0:16:01 > 0:16:03- ..to the body of a murdered girl.
0:16:03 > 0:16:08- Harries was suspected - of involvement in the murder.
0:16:12 > 0:16:17- To prove his powers, - Harries told the magistrates...
0:16:17 > 0:16:20- "..Tell me the hour - you came into the world...
0:16:20 > 0:16:24- "..and I will tell you - the hour you depart."
0:16:24 > 0:16:28- It seems the magistrates - weren't anxious to tempt fate.
0:16:28 > 0:16:31- The case was abruptly closed.
0:16:31 > 0:16:36- If Harries made the magistrates - more aware of their mortality...
0:16:36 > 0:16:39- ..how mortal was - John Harries himself?
0:16:40 > 0:16:44- Historian Russell Davies, - an expert on this period...
0:16:44 > 0:16:48- ..has joined me - in the old Red Lion tavern.
0:16:48 > 0:16:53- I asked him when did John Harries - shuffle off the mortal coil.
0:16:53 > 0:16:58- There are many stories - about his powers.
0:16:58 > 0:17:01- But the story of his death - is a moral tale...
0:17:01 > 0:17:06- ..that probably delighted - religious people at the time.
0:17:06 > 0:17:10- Apparently, he foresaw - the date of his own death.
0:17:10 > 0:17:12- To avoid his fate...
0:17:13 > 0:17:15- ..he stayed in bed all day.
0:17:15 > 0:17:18- Unfortunately, the house burnt down.
0:17:18 > 0:17:19- LAUGHTER
0:17:19 > 0:17:22- Old Harries died in the fire.
0:17:23 > 0:17:25- He was right.
0:17:25 > 0:17:27- He was right.- - He had foretold the date.
0:17:27 > 0:17:29- He didn't quite get it right.
0:17:30 > 0:17:35- So was the 19th century - the golden age of the cunning man?
0:17:35 > 0:17:37- I think it was.
0:17:37 > 0:17:43- It's surprising how many - of them existed in certain areas.
0:17:43 > 0:17:46- Between 1820 and 1850...
0:17:47 > 0:17:51- ..in a place like - Llandybie, Carmarthenshire...
0:17:51 > 0:17:54- ..there were three wise men.
0:17:54 > 0:17:59- It's hard to believe, but there were - three wise men active in Llandybie.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03- Witches and wise, or cunning men - provided an important service.
0:18:04 > 0:18:07- Definitely. People - felt they had many enemies.
0:18:07 > 0:18:12- It's difficult for religion to get - rid of some of those enemies.
0:18:13 > 0:18:17- Religion had many - supernatural beings, like angels.
0:18:18 > 0:18:22- If people are allowed - to believe in those...
0:18:22 > 0:18:27- ..why not believe in fairies, - Cwn Annwn and the Toili?
0:18:28 > 0:18:32- Those were what people - in Wales really feared.
0:18:32 > 0:18:36- Do you mean the powers - of evil, the devil?
0:18:36 > 0:18:37- Certainly.
0:18:37 > 0:18:42- The devil is almost a constant - character in Wales's history.
0:18:42 > 0:18:45- He turned up in many places.
0:18:46 > 0:18:51- There were stories about card games - in places like Bethesda and Risca...
0:18:51 > 0:18:55- ..when the devil was - one of the players.
0:18:55 > 0:18:59- He might join us - for a game of poker.
0:18:59 > 0:19:01- We'd better look out.
0:19:02 > 0:19:07- These stories about the devil - show that people really believed...
0:19:07 > 0:19:11- ..in a spiritual world - and the forces of evil.
0:19:11 > 0:19:13- People were really afraid.
0:19:13 > 0:19:15- At the time...
0:19:15 > 0:19:20- ..they were prepared - to turn to witches or cunning men...
0:19:20 > 0:19:23- ..to anyone who could help them.
0:19:23 > 0:19:28- Many of these old beliefs - were transformed...
0:19:28 > 0:19:33- ..when electricity came - to the countryside, all over Wales.
0:19:33 > 0:19:37- All people had - to do was flick a switch...
0:19:37 > 0:19:42- ..and the old fears - started to disappear immediately.
0:19:43 > 0:19:46- Are there still cunning men now?
0:19:46 > 0:19:51- I'm sure if you went - to some remote rural areas...
0:19:51 > 0:19:53- ..you'd find a cunning man or two.
0:19:57 > 0:20:02- One of the remote - areas Russell mentioned...
0:20:02 > 0:20:05- ..is an hour north of Llandovery.
0:20:05 > 0:20:08- It's an agricultural area.
0:20:08 > 0:20:12- In areas like this, - the cunning men's healing skills...
0:20:12 > 0:20:18- ..and ability to protect a farmer's - livelihood from risk was vital.
0:20:18 > 0:20:19- Erwyd, how are things?
0:20:19 > 0:20:21- Erwyd, how are things?- - You've arrived.
0:20:21 > 0:20:23- At last!
0:20:23 > 0:20:28- Erwyd Howells has evidence - of the existence of cunning men...
0:20:29 > 0:20:32- ..or the "Cwnjer", conjuror, - until fairly recently.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36- What do you remember - about the cunning man?
0:20:36 > 0:20:40- I remember the Llangurig - Cwnjer, Edward Davies...
0:20:40 > 0:20:42- ..or Ned y Fagwyr, as he was known.
0:20:42 > 0:20:46- He was a very rounded man - in every way.
0:20:46 > 0:20:50- He played the piano, - he was a fine shot.
0:20:50 > 0:20:56- I heard one story. - I don't know how true it is.
0:20:56 > 0:21:00- One common problem - in days gone by...
0:21:01 > 0:21:05- ..was when churning milk - and it wouldn't turn to butter.
0:21:05 > 0:21:11- The people were told to take - the strainer to a certain field...
0:21:11 > 0:21:14- ..and bury it at a certain depth.
0:21:14 > 0:21:20- The truth of the situation was - that the strainer wasn't clean.
0:21:20 > 0:21:23- Lack of cleanliness was the cause.
0:21:23 > 0:21:27- After burying the strainer, - they had to buy a new one.
0:21:28 > 0:21:30- Mysteriously, - the problem was solved!
0:21:30 > 0:21:33- But some things are hard to explain.
0:21:33 > 0:21:35- Like that thread?
0:21:35 > 0:21:40- A woman from Aberystwyth - showed me...
0:21:40 > 0:21:43- ...the ritual of curing - sickness of the heart.
0:21:44 > 0:21:46- What is sickness of the heart?
0:21:46 > 0:21:48- Depression.
0:21:48 > 0:21:51- It was called sickness of the heart.
0:21:52 > 0:21:57- The distance between the finger - and the patient's finger...
0:21:57 > 0:22:01- ..measured the depth - of one's depression.
0:22:01 > 0:22:04- How serious it was.
0:22:04 > 0:22:08- The thread was measured three times.
0:22:08 > 0:22:11- From elbow to fingertip?
0:22:11 > 0:22:13- Yes.
0:22:13 > 0:22:14- That's it.
0:22:16 > 0:22:19- We measure for the third time.
0:22:21 > 0:22:24- Of course, certain - words were recited.
0:22:25 > 0:22:26- That's very near.
0:22:27 > 0:22:29- I have a tiny bit of depression!
0:22:29 > 0:22:31- I'm not bad, only half an inch.
0:22:31 > 0:22:33- I'm not bad, only half an inch.- - That's not bad.
0:22:34 > 0:22:38- As I said, these things - are very difficult to explain.
0:22:38 > 0:22:40- It sounds psychosomatic.
0:22:41 > 0:22:43- Something like that is behind it.
0:22:43 > 0:22:45- For eleven years...
0:22:45 > 0:22:50- ..I've worn one sock inside out, - to ward against tonsillitis.
0:22:50 > 0:22:55- I used to get it all the time. - I've never had it since.
0:22:55 > 0:22:57- It might be psychological.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01- If it works, it doesn't matter.
0:23:01 > 0:23:05- Whatever the reason is, - so long as it works.
0:23:05 > 0:23:09- The secrets of the universe, - some psychology, education...
0:23:09 > 0:23:12- ..and listening. - It's very interesting.
0:23:13 > 0:23:15- And a little business acumen too.
0:23:15 > 0:23:16- Of course.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20- A Cardiganshire man - would know all about that!
0:23:20 > 0:23:22- Every time!
0:23:22 > 0:23:26- It's been a pleasure. - I could stay here all evening.
0:23:26 > 0:23:27- Bye.
0:23:27 > 0:23:28- Bye.- - Bye.
0:23:30 > 0:23:34- The tension - between magic and religion...
0:23:34 > 0:23:36- ..between logic and superstition...
0:23:36 > 0:23:41- ..turns up time after time - in our nation's history.
0:23:41 > 0:23:45- More than that, belief - in mysticism and the invisible...
0:23:46 > 0:23:48- ..colours our popular culture...
0:23:48 > 0:23:52- ..and is an integral part - of our national heritage.
0:23:53 > 0:23:57- And in this modern, - technological age...
0:23:57 > 0:24:00- ..and all its hustle and bustle...
0:24:00 > 0:24:03- ..I attain a sort - of comfort in thinking...
0:24:03 > 0:24:08- ..that a few unconventional - elements, even magical ones...
0:24:08 > 0:24:12- ..might still exist - in certain places in Wales.
0:24:30 > 0:24:32- S4C Subtitles by Gwead
0:24:32 > 0:24:32- .