0:00:00 > 0:00:00- Subtitles
0:00:00 > 0:00:02- Subtitles- - Subtitles
0:00:18 > 0:00:21- Hello and a warm welcome to Ffermio.
0:00:21 > 0:00:24- It's Beef Industry Week.
0:00:24 > 0:00:29- During the programme, we'll look - at different parts of the sector.
0:00:29 > 0:00:34- I've come to Osgodby Grange Farm - in Selby near York...
0:00:34 > 0:00:37- ..for a Stabiliser Cattle open day.
0:00:37 > 0:00:42- We'll find out how the system - on this farm links the supply chain.
0:00:43 > 0:00:47- Also on the programme, we see - how one farm near Llandysul...
0:00:47 > 0:00:51- ..has developed another side - to its business...
0:00:51 > 0:00:54- ..by adding value to male calves - from its dairy herd.
0:00:55 > 0:00:58- Conditions in the beef market...
0:00:58 > 0:01:01- ..have been very challenging - over the past few months.
0:01:02 > 0:01:05- Meinir assesses how things are now.
0:01:06 > 0:01:07- Here at Sennybridge market...
0:01:08 > 0:01:12- ..600 beef calves are expected - to go under the hammer today.
0:01:12 > 0:01:16- People within the sector - are worried at the moment...
0:01:16 > 0:01:20- ..as prices fall to their - lowest level for five years.
0:01:27 > 0:01:31- Selling nine calves - at the market and show today...
0:01:31 > 0:01:35- ..is Gethin Havard, - Llwynrhys Farm, Sennybridge.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39- We're in a very odd situation today.
0:01:40 > 0:01:45- Two years ago, producers here - would receive over 2,000...
0:01:45 > 0:01:47- ..for their biggest beef cattle.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51- Today, the price for the same animal - is down to 1,400.
0:01:51 > 0:01:55- That's a difference of 700, - so it's not a good situation.
0:01:56 > 0:02:01- Farmers are asking for a fair price - for everyone on the supply chain.
0:02:01 > 0:02:05- A fair price, but also more honesty - within the supply chain.
0:02:06 > 0:02:10- I've had a run-in with Waitrose - about their Duchy Organic brand.
0:02:10 > 0:02:12- I think they're being misleading.
0:02:13 > 0:02:17- Customers have the right to know - exactly where meat comes from...
0:02:17 > 0:02:20- ..and about the standards - of production.
0:02:20 > 0:02:22- Knowing those things...
0:02:22 > 0:02:26- ..they won't find anything better - than beef produced in Wales.
0:02:26 > 0:02:28- I was the chairman of...
0:02:28 > 0:02:33- ..the Brecon and Radnor Suckled Calf - Association for over 15 years.
0:02:34 > 0:02:35- When I started...
0:02:35 > 0:02:40- ..there was a suckling herd on - almost every farm in these valleys.
0:02:41 > 0:02:45- These days, some valleys - don't have any suckling herds.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48- Others have just a few.
0:02:50 > 0:02:54- As it stands, - the future looks very fragile...
0:02:54 > 0:02:56- ..for those in the industry.
0:02:57 > 0:02:59- What do you think is the answer?
0:02:59 > 0:03:01- There's no point sending meat...
0:03:01 > 0:03:05- ..that has been reared - with such care into the mass market.
0:03:05 > 0:03:08- It has to go into a niche market.
0:03:12 > 0:03:17- Over the years, people's eating - habits have changed considerably.
0:03:17 > 0:03:21- More of us are looking - for quick ready meals.
0:03:21 > 0:03:22- As a consequence...
0:03:23 > 0:03:27- ..beef is no longer at the top - of people's shopping lists.
0:03:28 > 0:03:32- Responsibility for marketing Welsh - beef lies with Meat Promotion Wales.
0:03:33 > 0:03:35- Its Head of Operations - is Prys Morgan.
0:03:36 > 0:03:40- There is a lot of pressure - on the price of beef at the moment.
0:03:40 > 0:03:43- This is due to a number of factors.
0:03:43 > 0:03:49- The number of animals being - slaughtered is similar to last year.
0:03:49 > 0:03:54- But it includes a lot of DIVA cattle - and they've flooded the market.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57- The strength of the pound - against the Euro...
0:03:57 > 0:03:59- ..though it's decreased lately...
0:03:59 > 0:04:02- ..has sucked in - quite a bit of Irish beef.
0:04:02 > 0:04:05- They are 6% higher.
0:04:06 > 0:04:07- How do you react...
0:04:08 > 0:04:10- ..to the abattoirs' demand - for lighter carcases?
0:04:11 > 0:04:14- They are reacting - to the market demand.
0:04:14 > 0:04:20- Farmers must be sensitive to these - demands before selling their stock.
0:04:20 > 0:04:24- We might have - to adapt the system somewhat...
0:04:25 > 0:04:27- ..to meet these demands.
0:04:28 > 0:04:33- With the market as it is, - customers want the pack price down.
0:04:34 > 0:04:36- A smaller cut will sell better...
0:04:36 > 0:04:40- ..and, ultimately, - that will benefit the industry.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44- How much work do you do - with the supermarkets...
0:04:44 > 0:04:46- ..to ensure they support Welsh beef?
0:04:47 > 0:04:52- We work with the supermarkets, - as we do with the butchers.
0:04:52 > 0:04:54- We promote Welsh beef...
0:04:54 > 0:05:00- ..to make sure it gets a prominent - place on the shelves of our shops.
0:05:00 > 0:05:04- Do pamphlets and posters - make any difference at all?
0:05:04 > 0:05:08- Our work is for the long term, - we must bear that in mind.
0:05:08 > 0:05:11- We want to make sure - that the customer...
0:05:12 > 0:05:15- ..is fully aware - of the availability of Welsh beef.
0:05:15 > 0:05:19- We want them to know - it's of the highest quality.
0:05:19 > 0:05:23- Ultimately, we have to compete - in terms of quality.
0:05:23 > 0:05:27- I don't think trying to compete - in terms of price will help anyone.
0:05:32 > 0:05:35- This afternoon at Sennybridge...
0:05:35 > 0:05:40- ..the average prices are some 150 - a head cheaper than last year.
0:05:40 > 0:05:44- What do the farmers make of the day?
0:05:44 > 0:05:47- We have to work out our figures.
0:05:47 > 0:05:51- If we don't make around 700-800 - for a steer or a heifer...
0:05:51 > 0:05:54- ..then there's no point - rearing them at all.
0:05:54 > 0:05:58- It costs around that much - to feed them during the winter...
0:05:58 > 0:06:01- ..and put them out - to pasture in the summer.
0:06:01 > 0:06:06- A lot of suckling calves - have sold for 500 or 600 today.
0:06:07 > 0:06:12- To me, those figures - just don't add up.
0:06:13 > 0:06:16- So many imports come in.
0:06:16 > 0:06:20- We can't compete - with these foreign imports.
0:06:20 > 0:06:24- I'm down by 100 - or 120 from last year.
0:06:24 > 0:06:30- A lot of beef is coming in - from overseas at 3 a kilo.
0:06:31 > 0:06:34- There's no sense in that.
0:06:34 > 0:06:37- We're only getting 3.20 today.
0:06:37 > 0:06:40- I was selling some of my best steers - two months ago.
0:06:40 > 0:06:43- The same age - as the ones selling today.
0:06:43 > 0:06:48- There's a 200 a head drop in value - between today and February.
0:06:48 > 0:06:51- This is the harvest - for a lot of these farmers.
0:06:51 > 0:06:56- It'll be another year before - they sell as many cattle again.
0:06:57 > 0:07:01- Some people are down - many thousands today...
0:07:02 > 0:07:06- ..but the things we have to buy - don't drop in price.
0:07:09 > 0:07:13- At the end of the sale, Gethin - takes stock of the sale as a whole.
0:07:15 > 0:07:18- It's a relief that we did manage - to sell most of the animals.
0:07:18 > 0:07:23- I think we got some fair prices - considering the state of the market.
0:07:24 > 0:07:27- We're hearing that some sellers - are down 100 or 200.
0:07:28 > 0:07:32- You only really need two bidders - to make for a good market.
0:07:32 > 0:07:36- We are very lucky to have the - same buyers coming back every year.
0:07:37 > 0:07:40- But unless things improve - in the next few months...
0:07:41 > 0:07:43- ..they may not be here next year.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47- What future do you see - for the industry?
0:07:48 > 0:07:54- If people just want cheap food, - none at all for hill farming.
0:07:54 > 0:07:55- I won't mince my words.
0:07:55 > 0:07:59- We'll never be able to match - other parts of the world...
0:07:59 > 0:08:01- ..in terms of efficiency...
0:08:01 > 0:08:05- ..with their massive - chicken and pig sheds.
0:08:05 > 0:08:09- China is preparing to develop...
0:08:09 > 0:08:14- ..dairy herds - of some 100,000 cows.
0:08:14 > 0:08:18- Russia is talking about - sow herds of 1.2 million.
0:08:18 > 0:08:22- What hope is there - for a rural farmer in Wales...
0:08:22 > 0:08:26- ..with 25-30 cattle - and 300-400 sheep?
0:08:26 > 0:08:27- None at all.
0:08:38 > 0:08:42- Welcome back to the - Stabiliser Cattle open day...
0:08:42 > 0:08:44- ..here at Osgodby Grange Farm.
0:08:45 > 0:08:48- Today has been jointly organized - by the farmer...
0:08:48 > 0:08:51- ..Morrisons supermarkets - and the Stabiliser Cattle Company.
0:08:57 > 0:08:58- The aim of the day...
0:08:58 > 0:09:03- ..is to show how the breed can work - effectively within the supply chain.
0:09:03 > 0:09:08- For two years now, this farm has - taken cattle from 16 Welsh farms...
0:09:08 > 0:09:10- ..and finished fattening them.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14- They're then graded - by the Stabiliser Cattle Company.
0:09:15 > 0:09:18- When ready, - they are taken to the abattoir.
0:09:18 > 0:09:21- One farmer - who brings his cattle here...
0:09:21 > 0:09:25- ..is Trevor Parry, - Bodgaeaf Farm, Bryncroes, Lleyn.
0:09:25 > 0:09:28- We wean the cattle - at home by November.
0:09:28 > 0:09:32- We wean them young, at the end - of September, beginning of October.
0:09:32 > 0:09:36- We keep them home for a month - until all the coughing has stopped.
0:09:37 > 0:09:40- We move them here - sometime in early November.
0:09:40 > 0:09:44- They are here until they are ready - to be taken away.
0:09:45 > 0:09:47- How old are they - when they arrive here?
0:09:47 > 0:09:52- We calve in April, so mine - are seven or eight months old.
0:09:52 > 0:09:56- How many will you bring here - to the finishing unit?
0:09:56 > 0:09:57- I brought 48 this year.
0:09:58 > 0:10:00- Basically, - what they are doing...
0:10:01 > 0:10:04- ..is offering an interim - B&B service for cattle.
0:10:04 > 0:10:05- Yes, indeed.
0:10:05 > 0:10:09- They come here - and we pay for their B&B...
0:10:09 > 0:10:11- ..before they are slaughtered.
0:10:12 > 0:10:15- By doing it this way, - we keep track of our cattle.
0:10:15 > 0:10:18- Otherwise, we would sell them - and lose any contact.
0:10:18 > 0:10:22- This way, we are still involved - in the production process.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25- Do they have to be - of a certain weight or age...
0:10:26 > 0:10:28- ..before being slaughtered?
0:10:28 > 0:10:31- Bulls in the Woodhead - Yearling Beef scheme...
0:10:32 > 0:10:35- ..must be between - a year and 14 months.
0:10:35 > 0:10:39- They are slaughtered - between 320 and 370 kilos.
0:10:39 > 0:10:44- What's the financial advantage - of doing it this way?
0:10:44 > 0:10:47- I'm not sure there is - much financial advantage.
0:10:47 > 0:10:49- Is there one?
0:10:49 > 0:10:52- It's better than - what we did previously...
0:10:52 > 0:10:56- ..but it's still only - making a bad job a bit better.
0:10:58 > 0:11:00- Doug Dear is the farmer here.
0:11:00 > 0:11:04- He won a British Farming Award - for this venture last year.
0:11:05 > 0:11:08- Every year, - they fatten 1,500 cattle.
0:11:08 > 0:11:12- They are mostly Stabilisers - but there are other breeds as well.
0:11:16 > 0:11:18- The supply chain - is down to three steps.
0:11:18 > 0:11:21- The producers bring the cattle in.
0:11:21 > 0:11:24- I feed them, then there's - the processor at the end.
0:11:24 > 0:11:26- It's vertically integrated.
0:11:26 > 0:11:29- We're taking out a lot of cost - in the supply chain.
0:11:30 > 0:11:34- Morrisons and Woodheads know - what cattle are coming in and out.
0:11:34 > 0:11:37- That's all factored in. - I know what I've got coming in.
0:11:37 > 0:11:41- We're all happy and all - in the supply chain together.
0:11:41 > 0:11:45- We're proving we can do - a proper job with these cattle.
0:11:45 > 0:11:48- We have excellent links - with the supply chain.
0:11:49 > 0:11:52- If we all work together, - we can grow this business.
0:11:52 > 0:11:56- Does this make farming easier? - Is there a load lifted off you?
0:11:56 > 0:12:00- It's certainly created - some space at home.
0:12:00 > 0:12:04- We needed a shed to increase - the herd and this has done that.
0:12:04 > 0:12:06- Less work physically too.
0:12:06 > 0:12:09- One job less, at least.
0:12:09 > 0:12:10- Do you sleep easier?
0:12:11 > 0:12:13- I sleep easier - when they leave here...
0:12:13 > 0:12:17- ..and the money arrives - to pay a few of this season's bills.
0:12:23 > 0:12:24- That's all for now.
0:12:24 > 0:12:28- After the break, - more from this day in Selby...
0:12:28 > 0:12:30- ..and a new venture - on a farm in Llandysul.
0:12:31 > 0:12:32- See you in a minute.
0:12:35 > 0:12:35- .
0:12:38 > 0:12:38- Subtitles
0:12:38 > 0:12:40- Subtitles- - Subtitles
0:12:43 > 0:12:48- Welcome back to Ffermio at Osgodby - Grange Farm, Selby, North Yorkshire.
0:12:49 > 0:12:53- As well as seeing how the 600 cattle - are being fattened...
0:12:53 > 0:12:57- ..we're also here to see - how the food chain unravels...
0:12:57 > 0:13:00- ..all the way - from the farmer to the supermarket.
0:13:03 > 0:13:06- One of the crucial factors - for the cattle is diet.
0:13:07 > 0:13:11- Iwan Vaughan from the Wynnstay Group - advises them here.
0:13:12 > 0:13:18- There are a lot of young bulls - on this farm today from North Wales.
0:13:18 > 0:13:23- Wynnstay helped the farmers to - regulate their diets in North Wales.
0:13:23 > 0:13:26- I've followed them here.
0:13:26 > 0:13:29- I help Doug with their diets - here in Selby.
0:13:29 > 0:13:33- How much of a difference - does the diet make to the cattle?
0:13:33 > 0:13:38- We try to put plenty of energy - into the diet and include starch.
0:13:38 > 0:13:43- We want them to grow quickly and for - the cost to be as low as possible.
0:13:43 > 0:13:48- We look at cost per kilogram - of daily liveweight gain...
0:13:48 > 0:13:51- ..and the cost - of producing that beef.
0:13:51 > 0:13:52- How's it going today?
0:13:53 > 0:13:56- Very well. These bulls look spot on.
0:13:56 > 0:14:01- They've grown well. The daily - liveweight gain is on target.
0:14:01 > 0:14:03- We're very happy with that.
0:14:03 > 0:14:08- It's also an excellent day to - show off the bulls at their best...
0:14:09 > 0:14:11- ..and the good work - Doug does with them.
0:14:13 > 0:14:14- From where have you come?
0:14:14 > 0:14:17- From close to Llanrwst.
0:14:17 > 0:14:18- Do you bring cattle here?
0:14:19 > 0:14:23- We do. This is our second year - being involved with the system.
0:14:23 > 0:14:26- Are you pleased with the system?
0:14:26 > 0:14:30- Very pleased. It doesn't cost - any more than having them at home.
0:14:30 > 0:14:36- In Wales, we live a long way - from the feed and the abattoirs.
0:14:36 > 0:14:41- It's cheaper to take the animals - to the feed and the abattoirs.
0:14:41 > 0:14:45- It may not save us money - but it does free up shed space...
0:14:45 > 0:14:47- ..and frees up time for us too.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51- Are you pleased - with what you've seen today?
0:14:51 > 0:14:53- Very happy.
0:14:53 > 0:14:55- Have they come along - as you'd expect?
0:14:56 > 0:14:58- Yes, they've done really well.
0:14:58 > 0:15:04- They've averaged 1.7 kilos a day - since they've been here.
0:15:04 > 0:15:06- How many will you bring next year?
0:15:07 > 0:15:11- We brought 44 this year, - which is every one we had.
0:15:11 > 0:15:13- All our young bulls.
0:15:13 > 0:15:14- You're happy then.
0:15:14 > 0:15:16- You're happy then.- - Yes. Yes.
0:15:24 > 0:15:28- Next, Alun takes us - to Llwyndafydd, near Llandysul.
0:15:28 > 0:15:33- We stay with beef, - but this is a little bit different.
0:15:34 > 0:15:38- Often, there's very little value - to bull calves in a dairy herd.
0:15:38 > 0:15:42- But James and Trudy Davies - from Cwmcynon Farm, Llwyndafydd...
0:15:43 > 0:15:48- ..have set about changing that - by producing rose veal.
0:15:52 > 0:15:56- They started keeping the calves - in November 2013...
0:15:57 > 0:16:00- ..starting with a handful of them.
0:16:00 > 0:16:02- There are now 87 on the farm.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06- They're all bought - as locally as possible...
0:16:06 > 0:16:09- ..within 30 miles of the farm.
0:16:11 > 0:16:14- We did have suckler cows.
0:16:14 > 0:16:17- We kept around 20 suckler cows.
0:16:17 > 0:16:22- We decided - we wanted more store cattle.
0:16:23 > 0:16:25- We decided to buy - bucket-fed calves.
0:16:26 > 0:16:30- We began buying - a few Friesian calves.
0:16:31 > 0:16:36- Trudy saw an article in the paper...
0:16:37 > 0:16:41- ..about rose veal by Buitelaar.
0:16:42 > 0:16:45- So we decided to look into it.
0:16:45 > 0:16:48- What exactly is rose veal?
0:16:48 > 0:16:50- It's different to veal.
0:16:50 > 0:16:51- Yes, it is.
0:16:51 > 0:16:54- It's beef but it's pink.
0:16:55 > 0:16:58- It's somewhere between - chicken and beef.
0:16:58 > 0:16:59- In terms of how it looks.
0:16:59 > 0:17:00- In terms of how it looks.- - Yes.
0:17:01 > 0:17:03- It's good for you.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05- How many did you start with?
0:17:06 > 0:17:09- Only around 12-15.
0:17:09 > 0:17:11- It's been tough. Very tough.
0:17:11 > 0:17:14- You buy them in - but have nothing to sell.
0:17:14 > 0:17:16- For a year.
0:17:16 > 0:17:17- For a year.- - A year?
0:17:17 > 0:17:22- The point is, it's not a year. - You look at it long term.
0:17:22 > 0:17:26- It's two or three years - before the business picks up.
0:17:26 > 0:17:30- The more that go in a month, - the better.
0:17:30 > 0:17:33- We started - by doing it on a small scale.
0:17:33 > 0:17:38- If we sold two a month, - we tried to buy four calves back.
0:17:39 > 0:17:42- You replace and you also increase.
0:17:43 > 0:17:47- This is a great pen of calves.
0:17:47 > 0:17:49- We've been lucky.
0:17:49 > 0:17:52- We had very nice calves - from one person.
0:17:52 > 0:17:54- We're very happy with them.
0:17:54 > 0:18:00- From what I know about dairy herds, - these are Friesians.
0:18:00 > 0:18:04- They look like Friesians. - They don't look like Holsteins.
0:18:05 > 0:18:07- Does that make a difference for you?
0:18:07 > 0:18:10- We prefer British Friesians.
0:18:10 > 0:18:13- They turn out better calves, - at the end of the day.
0:18:14 > 0:18:16- From where do you get all the food?
0:18:16 > 0:18:20- The coarse mixture comes from - Cynwyl Elfed, not far from here.
0:18:20 > 0:18:25- They're given coarse mixture - straight after they arrive here.
0:18:25 > 0:18:29- They're given milk - until they're eight weeks old...
0:18:29 > 0:18:32- ..and then we reduce it - by half a litre a day.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35- They're given - two and a half litres of water...
0:18:36 > 0:18:38- ..and powder - to make it up to three litres.
0:18:38 > 0:18:41- At the age of eight weeks, - it's cut by half a litre a day.
0:18:42 > 0:18:47- After the final half a litre, - it's finished - it's weaned.
0:18:48 > 0:18:52- I mix this - half and half - with the coarse mixture...
0:18:52 > 0:18:54- ..when they're two weeks old.
0:18:54 > 0:18:58- We then move them to a pen - and they're on this.
0:18:58 > 0:19:01- They'll be on it until they leave.
0:19:01 > 0:19:02- What's in this? It's a mixture.
0:19:02 > 0:19:04- What's in this? It's a mixture.- - Cereals mostly.
0:19:04 > 0:19:10- Oats, wheat, barley, - sugar beat, palm kernel, molasses...
0:19:11 > 0:19:13- ..um, minerals...
0:19:13 > 0:19:14- ..and yeast.
0:19:15 > 0:19:19- The reason for a diet - with no silage or grass...
0:19:19 > 0:19:22- ..is to keep - the quality of this meat.
0:19:22 > 0:19:24- It's to keep it pink.
0:19:24 > 0:19:29- The more silage and grass - they're given, the redder the meat.
0:19:29 > 0:19:31- They're tame.
0:19:31 > 0:19:32- They're tame.- - They are.
0:19:32 > 0:19:36- We're here every day - talking to them.
0:19:36 > 0:19:39- Some of them - will be going in a month.
0:19:39 > 0:19:40- OK.
0:19:40 > 0:19:46- Behind us is a group - that's due to leave now.
0:19:46 > 0:19:48- They're meant to be going on Monday.
0:19:48 > 0:19:49- They're meant to be going on Monday.- - OK.
0:19:51 > 0:19:55- I can see a difference - but it isn't marked.
0:19:55 > 0:19:57- They're heavier.
0:19:57 > 0:20:00- What's your usual target?
0:20:00 > 0:20:03- It's usually over 440kg.
0:20:03 > 0:20:05- We aim for 460kg.
0:20:05 > 0:20:06- Wow!
0:20:07 > 0:20:11- It's the weight that decides - when they go, not their age.
0:20:11 > 0:20:15- Yes, but they go - if they're fairly close.
0:20:15 > 0:20:17- Yes, it's the weight.
0:20:17 > 0:20:20- We weigh them all before they go.
0:20:26 > 0:20:30- As well as the calves, - the couple keep around 100 sheep.
0:20:30 > 0:20:33- In the summer, - they go from show to show...
0:20:34 > 0:20:37- ..judging and exhibiting - Texel sheep.
0:20:37 > 0:20:39- Trujim is the name of the flock.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43- They've had lots of success - over the years.
0:20:48 > 0:20:53- We first bought a few ewes - off Sue and Ronald, Meinigwynion.
0:20:54 > 0:20:56- That's really where we established.
0:20:56 > 0:20:58- We bought a few in Builth as well.
0:20:59 > 0:21:04- We've just built up from there - to where we are now.
0:21:04 > 0:21:07- You keep a few Beltexes as well.
0:21:07 > 0:21:11- We've got a handful of them but - we're hoping to build them up too.
0:21:12 > 0:21:16- How has it been this year? It was a - tough winter for some of the sheep.
0:21:16 > 0:21:17- It was quite tough.
0:21:18 > 0:21:21- We had a shed where they could - come in for lambing.
0:21:21 > 0:21:25- Before I met Trudy, - Carmarthen was far for me.
0:21:25 > 0:21:29- Going further than Carmarthen - was like going abroad!
0:21:29 > 0:21:33- Now, going to Lanark, Carlisle - or Skipton is nothing.
0:21:33 > 0:21:34- Yes.
0:21:35 > 0:21:36- Meeting friends.
0:21:36 > 0:21:39- Is that where you go - for new bloodlines?
0:21:39 > 0:21:41- Yes. We try to buy a ram.
0:21:41 > 0:21:44- We try to buy one every year - or every other year.
0:21:46 > 0:21:51- James and Trudy have been producing - rose veal for two and a half years.
0:21:52 > 0:21:57- How much difference - do they see between this system...
0:21:57 > 0:21:59- ..and farming suckler cows?
0:21:59 > 0:22:02- I'll put it this way - - we're inside.
0:22:03 > 0:22:08- If it's raining outside, we can be - with them all day feeding them.
0:22:08 > 0:22:10- We're not out in the rain.
0:22:10 > 0:22:14- We don't use as much fertilizer - as they don't go outside...
0:22:14 > 0:22:18- ..and they're not given - any silage or grass.
0:22:18 > 0:22:21- So we don't have those costs.
0:22:21 > 0:22:25- As well as that, - we think it's easier.
0:22:26 > 0:22:31- Give these milk in the morning, - and you've finished.
0:22:31 > 0:22:36- I think you both derive - a lot of pleasure from this change.
0:22:36 > 0:22:37- We do.
0:22:37 > 0:22:40- We see a difference, don't we, - in the calves?
0:22:40 > 0:22:41- Yes.
0:22:42 > 0:22:45- Sometimes, - you see a nice calf come in.
0:22:46 > 0:22:49- Then it goes through a gangly stage, - as Trudy calls it.
0:22:49 > 0:22:54- When they're in the other sheds, - they change.
0:22:54 > 0:22:57- Every time you move them, - they change.
0:22:57 > 0:23:02- What's next? Do you have the numbers - you want or do you want to increase?
0:23:02 > 0:23:06- We're thinking - of going up to 150-200.
0:23:07 > 0:23:11- So what about the future - for both of you?
0:23:11 > 0:23:14- Does it look rosy?
0:23:14 > 0:23:17- I hope, because that's what we want!
0:23:25 > 0:23:28- You learn something every day.
0:23:28 > 0:23:32- Being here today - has been an eye-opener.
0:23:32 > 0:23:36- Thanks for your company. - I hope you have a good week.
0:23:36 > 0:23:38- Until next time, goodbye.
0:23:56 > 0:23:58- S4C Subtitles by Testun Cyf.
0:23:59 > 0:23:59- .