0:00:03 > 0:00:06Britain's modern spies live in the shadowy world
0:00:06 > 0:00:10of undercover surveillance, secret break-ins
0:00:10 > 0:00:12and clandestine bugging.
0:00:13 > 0:00:14Do you get nervous?
0:00:14 > 0:00:16Sometimes.
0:00:16 > 0:00:17Do you get a buzz from it?
0:00:17 > 0:00:19Definitely.
0:00:19 > 0:00:21LOUD EXPLOSION
0:00:21 > 0:00:24It's a world of violence and drama
0:00:24 > 0:00:26we all recognise from movies and TV.
0:00:28 > 0:00:31But in this series I'm talking to real spies about their real work.
0:00:31 > 0:00:34The key elements of the James Bond myth
0:00:34 > 0:00:38are that we're some kind of military or paramilitary organisation.
0:00:38 > 0:00:39In this programme,
0:00:39 > 0:00:44I investigate how far modern spies can go to prevent an attack.
0:00:44 > 0:00:48When does an undercover operation cross the line
0:00:48 > 0:00:49and become entrapment?
0:00:49 > 0:00:51It is a very fine line
0:00:51 > 0:00:54and that's why undercover officers are highly trained.
0:00:54 > 0:00:56Were British spies complicit
0:00:56 > 0:01:00in sending terrorist suspects to Libya to be tortured?
0:01:03 > 0:01:05And is assassination ever justified?
0:01:05 > 0:01:06LOUD EXPLOSION
0:01:06 > 0:01:09The question is whether the government has the authority
0:01:09 > 0:01:11to use lethal force.
0:01:11 > 0:01:14For the first time on television,
0:01:14 > 0:01:16serving British intelligence officers
0:01:16 > 0:01:20talk about the myth and reality of being a modern spy.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22Do you have a licence to kill?
0:01:38 > 0:01:39London 2012.
0:01:42 > 0:01:44The armed forces and police are training
0:01:44 > 0:01:48for one of the biggest security operations Britain has ever seen.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51It could be a scene out of a Hollywood blockbuster.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56But there are others whom we don't see.
0:01:56 > 0:01:59The real James Bonds.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02The shadowy figures of Britain's intelligence services
0:02:02 > 0:02:05working to thwart any potential terrorist attack.
0:02:08 > 0:02:12We have insight into the whole range of threats that the UK faces.
0:02:12 > 0:02:15So you deal with one issue, you have to move very quickly onto another.
0:02:15 > 0:02:187/7 proved that the threat was real
0:02:18 > 0:02:20when suicide bombers attacked London
0:02:20 > 0:02:26killing 52 people and injuring over 700.
0:02:28 > 0:02:30Shami is an MI5 surveillance officer.
0:02:30 > 0:02:33For him, that day was a watershed.
0:02:33 > 0:02:36That had a big effect on me, personally.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39Initially, from seeing the death toll going up
0:02:39 > 0:02:43and the fact that it was on my country, hit me even harder.
0:02:44 > 0:02:46That's one of the major influences
0:02:46 > 0:02:48in my motivation for joining the service -
0:02:48 > 0:02:52to try and prevent anything happening like that again.
0:02:54 > 0:02:59Emma is an MI5 intelligence officer investigating Al-Qaeda networks.
0:03:01 > 0:03:04I think, for me, 7/7 was a shock and a wake-up call
0:03:04 > 0:03:08about how serious the Islamic extremist problem actually was.
0:03:08 > 0:03:11I think there are still networks
0:03:11 > 0:03:14keen to carry out attacks against the UK.
0:03:14 > 0:03:17We work hard on a daily basis to counter networks,
0:03:17 > 0:03:21so although things may not necessarily reach the media as a disruption,
0:03:21 > 0:03:24a lot of work goes on behind the scenes
0:03:24 > 0:03:28in order to disrupt the potential threat towards this country.
0:03:30 > 0:03:32Given what happened on 7/7
0:03:32 > 0:03:35and potentially what could happen during the Olympics,
0:03:35 > 0:03:37how far should today's modern spies go
0:03:37 > 0:03:40in taking measures to prevent such attacks?
0:03:43 > 0:03:45- And what is that?- A transmitter.
0:03:45 > 0:03:47It sends a scrambled signal via satellite.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50We can record you and anyone in a range of ten feet around you.
0:03:50 > 0:03:52Ah.
0:03:53 > 0:03:56- And this?- Camera. Activate.
0:03:56 > 0:03:59It's digital, the shots can be sent to us by...
0:03:59 > 0:04:00On the TV and in the movies,
0:04:00 > 0:04:03spies have limitless powers of surveillance,
0:04:03 > 0:04:08using state-of-the-art technology to pry into our lives.
0:04:08 > 0:04:12This...ridiculous James Bondery, do we need it?
0:04:16 > 0:04:19But what's it like in the real world
0:04:19 > 0:04:22and how extensive is secret surveillance in Britain?
0:04:22 > 0:04:25It's not known how many people in Britain are being targeted,
0:04:25 > 0:04:28but MI5 says there are around
0:04:28 > 0:04:332,000 Al-Qaeda-inspired terrorist suspects in the UK.
0:04:33 > 0:04:35You would expect
0:04:35 > 0:04:37that the agencies and the police
0:04:37 > 0:04:41would have to monitor those threats constantly.
0:04:41 > 0:04:45And that's spying on people, spying on the lives of individuals,
0:04:45 > 0:04:49who may or may not be involved in what you think they're involved in?
0:04:49 > 0:04:51Well, you could say that
0:04:51 > 0:04:54or you could say it's actually about preventing crime
0:04:54 > 0:04:56and protecting life and limb.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01Intelligence gathering is the key to prevention
0:05:01 > 0:05:04and, to be effective, it often needs to be intrusive.
0:05:05 > 0:05:08Phones are tapped, e-mails intercepted,
0:05:08 > 0:05:10conversations recorded.
0:05:10 > 0:05:12The intrusion appears boundless.
0:05:13 > 0:05:16A lot of the information you get has got nothing to do with terrorism,
0:05:16 > 0:05:18it's their personal, private lives.
0:05:18 > 0:05:21That's what you're getting access to,
0:05:21 > 0:05:23that's what worries people.
0:05:23 > 0:05:25Absolutely. Potentially it can be.
0:05:25 > 0:05:30Again, there is a requirement for the authorities in law
0:05:30 > 0:05:34to direct those very intrusive elements of surveillance
0:05:34 > 0:05:40at people who are believed to be active in crime or terrorism.
0:05:45 > 0:05:49The threat MI5 faces was illustrated by a network of extremist Muslims
0:05:49 > 0:05:52detected in 2010.
0:05:53 > 0:05:56There was intelligence that suspected terrorists
0:05:56 > 0:05:59were plotting to target major London landmarks,
0:05:59 > 0:06:01including the Stock Exchange.
0:06:07 > 0:06:10It marked the beginning of a massive intelligence gathering
0:06:10 > 0:06:12and surveillance operation.
0:06:12 > 0:06:14At its height, it involved
0:06:14 > 0:06:18more than 1,000 police and undercover MI5 officers.
0:06:22 > 0:06:25The network stretched from East London
0:06:25 > 0:06:27to Stoke-on-Trent and Cardiff,
0:06:27 > 0:06:30and had been targeted and watched for many months.
0:06:30 > 0:06:32From the outset you're briefed
0:06:32 > 0:06:35regarding the target you are going to be going up against
0:06:35 > 0:06:36and from there
0:06:36 > 0:06:38you're given the information
0:06:38 > 0:06:41as to why you're going to be observing a certain person.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44How much do you know about the target you're following?
0:06:44 > 0:06:46You're told of the potential risks
0:06:46 > 0:06:48in terms of not gathering the information required
0:06:48 > 0:06:51and what these people are planning to do.
0:06:56 > 0:07:00Surveillance officers watched members of the cell
0:07:00 > 0:07:04as they scouted out other iconic targets in central London.
0:07:06 > 0:07:08You've got that pressure on your shoulders from the outset
0:07:08 > 0:07:10of making sure you've got it right.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13You're constantly thinking about how you're coming across.
0:07:13 > 0:07:16You're thinking about everything that's going on.
0:07:16 > 0:07:18And thinking about who might be watching you?
0:07:18 > 0:07:20That's right.
0:07:20 > 0:07:23- Which could lead to a compromise? - Yes.
0:07:26 > 0:07:29But the surveillance went well beyond "eyes on" -
0:07:29 > 0:07:32that's just watching their targets.
0:07:32 > 0:07:35DRILLING
0:07:36 > 0:07:39Listening devices were secretly planted in one of their homes.
0:07:42 > 0:07:45It's, I think, common knowledge that the police and the agencies
0:07:45 > 0:07:48can intrude into private premises
0:07:48 > 0:07:51for the purposes of investigating very serious crime.
0:07:51 > 0:07:54And planting a listening device inside, planting a bug?
0:07:54 > 0:07:57These things are...
0:07:58 > 0:08:00..tactics that can be resorted to
0:08:00 > 0:08:02in appropriate circumstances
0:08:02 > 0:08:06where there is evidence of very serious crime being committed.
0:08:08 > 0:08:12With such formidable powers at their command,
0:08:12 > 0:08:15who authorises such deep intrusion into people's lives?
0:08:16 > 0:08:20There's a lot of form filling in and that is necessary and right
0:08:20 > 0:08:23that this takes place in order to get that authorisation.
0:08:23 > 0:08:27Does it ever worry you, ever occur to you
0:08:27 > 0:08:31that what you do is to spy on the lives of others?
0:08:31 > 0:08:33It doesn't worry me.
0:08:33 > 0:08:38I feel like every action that I take as an investigator is proportionate
0:08:38 > 0:08:42and is the right thing to do in order to protect national security.
0:08:43 > 0:08:46Each act of planned surveillance
0:08:46 > 0:08:50carries with it an accountability regime,
0:08:50 > 0:08:52where officers have to report, justify
0:08:52 > 0:08:55and make the case for those actions
0:08:55 > 0:08:58and they have to be approved at very senior levels.
0:08:58 > 0:09:01Does the morality ever worry you?
0:09:01 > 0:09:05You always sort of try and use your moral compass,
0:09:05 > 0:09:09but the main compass really must be the law
0:09:09 > 0:09:10and therefore...
0:09:12 > 0:09:16..the overriding morality, I think, that drives law enforcement people
0:09:16 > 0:09:19and security service people
0:09:19 > 0:09:24is to protect the public and the innocent.
0:09:26 > 0:09:31In this case, the techniques used by MI5 and the police were vindicated.
0:09:31 > 0:09:33Faced with the surveillance evidence,
0:09:33 > 0:09:37nine men pleaded guilty and received long prison sentences.
0:09:39 > 0:09:43There would have been no case without the operational tools
0:09:43 > 0:09:45that the police have in law
0:09:45 > 0:09:50to keep these individuals under surveillance for an extended period.
0:09:55 > 0:09:57But what happens if surveillance -
0:09:57 > 0:10:00however intrusive - is not enough to prevent an atrocity?
0:10:02 > 0:10:05Getting evidence to convict terrorist leaders
0:10:05 > 0:10:08may require even more controversial methods,
0:10:08 > 0:10:12involving risky undercover operations known as stings.
0:10:13 > 0:10:16FLUTE BAND PLAYS
0:10:20 > 0:10:22One case in Northern Ireland
0:10:22 > 0:10:28shows how just how easily an MI5 agent can cross the line.
0:10:30 > 0:10:33Nearly 15 years after the Good Friday Agreement,
0:10:33 > 0:10:37there's still an ongoing threat from violent dissident republicans.
0:10:39 > 0:10:42The Real IRA pose a real threat in terms of their intent
0:10:42 > 0:10:45but, also, we've seen over the last two years
0:10:45 > 0:10:48a return to vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices
0:10:48 > 0:10:50by that particular grouping.
0:10:50 > 0:10:53And so they pose a threat
0:10:53 > 0:10:56both to life and property here over in Northern Ireland.
0:10:56 > 0:10:58ALARM BLARES
0:11:00 > 0:11:04The Real IRA is the dissident group responsible for the car bomb
0:11:04 > 0:11:08that killed 29 people in Omagh, in 1998,
0:11:08 > 0:11:12the worst single attack in the Northern Ireland conflict.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17MI5 and the police know who its leaders are
0:11:17 > 0:11:20but can't always get the evidence to convict them.
0:11:20 > 0:11:21SIREN BLARES
0:11:24 > 0:11:29In 2004, MI5 had reason to believe that Paul McCaugherty,
0:11:29 > 0:11:31a taxi driver from Lurgan,
0:11:31 > 0:11:35was a high-ranking figure in the Real IRA.
0:11:37 > 0:11:41The plan was to use undercover agents to infiltrate the group,
0:11:41 > 0:11:45to catch McCaugherty red-handed buying arms.
0:11:47 > 0:11:50But such operations raise serious legal and moral questions.
0:11:50 > 0:11:54The risk is that the undercover agent or source
0:11:54 > 0:11:58may cross the line and encourage the target to commit a crime.
0:11:58 > 0:12:00It's called entrapment.
0:12:02 > 0:12:05We're very careful in respect of entrapment.
0:12:05 > 0:12:07Prosecutors advise us
0:12:07 > 0:12:09and give us the red lines within which we must operate
0:12:09 > 0:12:13to be able to bring evidence before a criminal court.
0:12:13 > 0:12:16And the source has to know what the red line is,
0:12:16 > 0:12:19the source has to know what he can do and what he can't do?
0:12:19 > 0:12:21Yes, the source will be fully briefed
0:12:21 > 0:12:24on exactly what their behaviour should be.
0:12:26 > 0:12:29MI5's route to the target, Paul McCaugherty,
0:12:29 > 0:12:33was to be through an unsuspecting acquaintance, Desmond Kearns.
0:12:35 > 0:12:39Kearns and his wife were followed to a warehouse in Luxembourg.
0:12:39 > 0:12:42There were suspicions that Kearns might be involved
0:12:42 > 0:12:43in cigarette smuggling.
0:12:45 > 0:12:48MI5 sent an undercover agent to chat up Kearns
0:12:48 > 0:12:53and use him as a means of infiltrating the Real IRA.
0:12:53 > 0:12:56The agent's codename was Amir.
0:12:56 > 0:12:59The first and most crucial step was engineering a meeting
0:12:59 > 0:13:03between the agent and his target - in this case Desmond Kearns.
0:13:04 > 0:13:06It's known as the "bump".
0:13:08 > 0:13:10What is a "bump"?
0:13:10 > 0:13:16I said I'm not going to go through the tactics and methodologies
0:13:16 > 0:13:17of undercover officers,
0:13:17 > 0:13:20that would be totally counterproductive.
0:13:20 > 0:13:23But in general terms, the bump is the critical first step
0:13:23 > 0:13:26in the evolution of a sting operation, isn't it?
0:13:26 > 0:13:29If you tell me that the bump is the critical first step, Peter,
0:13:29 > 0:13:31then I'm sure it is.
0:13:34 > 0:13:36Amir briefly engaged Kearns in conversation,
0:13:36 > 0:13:39saying he could get him cheaper cigarettes.
0:13:39 > 0:13:41But before they got going,
0:13:41 > 0:13:43they were accosted by the irate warehouse owner.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46What do you think you're doing?! Stop, please.
0:13:46 > 0:13:50One more time. I tell you one time. I tell you two times...
0:13:50 > 0:13:51I'm just leaving.
0:13:51 > 0:13:54It looked like the bump had failed.
0:13:55 > 0:13:57Sorry, apologies. Follow me.
0:13:57 > 0:14:02But MI5 directed Amir to give it one more go.
0:14:05 > 0:14:08Two days later, now in Brussels,
0:14:08 > 0:14:10Amir choreographed a second bump,
0:14:10 > 0:14:13using the altercation with the warehouse owner
0:14:13 > 0:14:15as the reason for recognising Kearns.
0:14:17 > 0:14:20Kearns took the bait and exchanged numbers.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23- I know you from somewhere. - How are you doing?
0:14:23 > 0:14:26Fine. Yeah, fine.
0:14:30 > 0:14:33Over the following months they spoke several times
0:14:33 > 0:14:37and on each occasion Amir reported back to MI5.
0:14:38 > 0:14:40When they met again,
0:14:40 > 0:14:43Kearns was happy to discuss a deal on cigarettes,
0:14:43 > 0:14:45but did not bring up the subject of arms.
0:14:46 > 0:14:49To political sympathisers of the Real IRA,
0:14:49 > 0:14:54Desmond Kearns was an innocent party being manipulated by MI5.
0:14:54 > 0:14:57MI5, they're always on the lookout, you know,
0:14:57 > 0:14:58always on the lookout for people
0:14:58 > 0:15:00who they think might be a bit vulnerable
0:15:00 > 0:15:03and a bit easier to intimidate.
0:15:03 > 0:15:05When they saw Dessy, they saw...
0:15:05 > 0:15:09"This is a prime target for us," and they went to work on him.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12Wasn't Desmond Kearns targeted
0:15:12 > 0:15:15as a means of getting to Paul McCaugherty?
0:15:18 > 0:15:19I really wouldn't want to comment
0:15:19 > 0:15:22on the "targeting" of Mr Kearns, as you put it.
0:15:23 > 0:15:29It was at this point that Amir, the MI5 agent, crossed the line.
0:15:29 > 0:15:34In conversations with Kearns, he talked about buying "other items",
0:15:34 > 0:15:37by which he meant guns.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40In very simple terms, they're not allowed
0:15:40 > 0:15:42to encourage somebody to commit a crime.
0:15:42 > 0:15:44They can watch them do it,
0:15:44 > 0:15:47they can sometimes help them gather material
0:15:47 > 0:15:50if they've asked for certain things to be found,
0:15:50 > 0:15:53so they can go and pretend that they're able to find weapons
0:15:53 > 0:15:54or something like that,
0:15:54 > 0:15:57but they cannot encourage people to commit a crime.
0:15:59 > 0:16:02The MI5 agent may have broken the rules,
0:16:02 > 0:16:05but it did produce the result that MI5 wanted.
0:16:08 > 0:16:10Kearns said he knew someone
0:16:10 > 0:16:12who might be interested in "other items".
0:16:14 > 0:16:17The route to Paul McCaugherty was now open.
0:16:28 > 0:16:32Now it was time to introduce a second MI5 undercover agent,
0:16:32 > 0:16:35codenamed Ali.
0:16:35 > 0:16:37Ali was posing as an arms dealer.
0:16:39 > 0:16:41McCaugherty met with Ali on six occasions,
0:16:41 > 0:16:43from Istanbul to Bruges.
0:16:43 > 0:16:47All the time, they were under surveillance.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52Can you do 100 kilos of plastic?
0:16:52 > 0:16:54Look, I can do you a package.
0:16:54 > 0:16:58Each meeting was secretly recorded - vital for the court evidence.
0:16:58 > 0:17:00100 kilograms...
0:17:00 > 0:17:04The discussions covered everything from the weapons to their delivery.
0:17:04 > 0:17:0520 RPG,
0:17:05 > 0:17:1020 AK-47 and 6,000 rounds of ammo.
0:17:10 > 0:17:13So convincing was Ali, that McCaugherty handed over
0:17:13 > 0:17:1746,000 euros as a down payment.
0:17:20 > 0:17:23The operation lasted for over two years
0:17:23 > 0:17:26before McCaugherty and Kearns were finally arrested.
0:17:28 > 0:17:33The case went to court and MI5's strategy seemed vindicated
0:17:33 > 0:17:36when McCaugherty was jailed for 20 years.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40But the case against Kearns collapsed.
0:17:40 > 0:17:43MI5's agent, Amir, had crossed the line.
0:17:43 > 0:17:46The judge ruled that there were inconsistencies
0:17:46 > 0:17:48in his evidence against Kearns
0:17:48 > 0:17:51and his conduct might have constituted entrapment.
0:17:51 > 0:17:53It is a very fine line
0:17:53 > 0:17:56and that's why undercover officers are highly trained.
0:17:56 > 0:17:59The exact parameters of what they can do are authorised
0:17:59 > 0:18:00before they're deployed.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03The case is reviewed after every deployment
0:18:03 > 0:18:06and, of course, the evidence is scrutinised meticulously
0:18:06 > 0:18:07by the courts.
0:18:09 > 0:18:13The problem was that Amir was NOT a trained MI5 officer
0:18:13 > 0:18:17but someone they hired because his face and background fitted.
0:18:18 > 0:18:20We don't know about Amir's background,
0:18:20 > 0:18:22but there are some cases
0:18:22 > 0:18:25where undercover agents with shady credentials are recruited.
0:18:27 > 0:18:29When you're recruiting an agent
0:18:29 > 0:18:32who has been part of a criminal community
0:18:32 > 0:18:36or a terrorist suspect community,
0:18:36 > 0:18:40then there will always be question marks around their character,
0:18:40 > 0:18:43their motivations and their abilities,
0:18:43 > 0:18:45and they have to be very closely assessed.
0:18:45 > 0:18:49They can work in that world, that's why they're recruited, yes?
0:18:49 > 0:18:50They can be credible in that world
0:18:50 > 0:18:53and they can be of extremely high importance
0:18:53 > 0:18:57in preventing crimes, atrocities, terrorist attacks.
0:19:05 > 0:19:09In America, undercover agents are used far more aggressively
0:19:09 > 0:19:11to sting targets.
0:19:12 > 0:19:15But serious doubts have been raised about entrapment
0:19:15 > 0:19:18and whether innocent people - mainly Muslims -
0:19:18 > 0:19:21have been encouraged to plan terrorist acts
0:19:21 > 0:19:24by FBI undercover sources.
0:19:24 > 0:19:28We have a large pool of human sources that we utilise,
0:19:28 > 0:19:32that we cultivate and that we need to keep this country safe.
0:19:32 > 0:19:34- CAMERAMAN:- Smile for the camera.
0:19:34 > 0:19:36Hello!
0:19:37 > 0:19:39In January 2006,
0:19:39 > 0:19:42a group of young Muslims videoed themselves
0:19:42 > 0:19:45messing about in the snow during a vacation trip
0:19:45 > 0:19:47to the Poconos Mountains in Pennsylvania.
0:19:49 > 0:19:53- Two days, nothing.- Like a bear! - THEY LAUGH
0:19:53 > 0:19:56The Duka family originally came from Albania 20 years ago,
0:19:56 > 0:20:00to start a new life in America.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05They'd set up home in Cherry Hill, New Jersey,
0:20:05 > 0:20:07started a roofing business
0:20:07 > 0:20:10and settled into an all-American neighbourhood.
0:20:10 > 0:20:13Burim, the youngest brother, was born in America.
0:20:14 > 0:20:18Our family, we're pretty close, very close, as a matter of fact.
0:20:18 > 0:20:22We live with our nieces and nephews, that's how close we are.
0:20:22 > 0:20:26We treat our own nieces and nephews as if they are our own kids.
0:20:26 > 0:20:28We're very close.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30- BURIM CHANTS:- Allahu Akbar.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36Sami Allahu Liman Hamidah.
0:20:38 > 0:20:40Allahu Akbar.
0:20:40 > 0:20:44My family came here for a better life for us, you know,
0:20:44 > 0:20:47they came here to help us get a better education,
0:20:47 > 0:20:49to help us get better jobs,
0:20:49 > 0:20:51to help us, like, you know...
0:20:51 > 0:20:54for everything... like, everything for the best.
0:20:56 > 0:20:58But the American dream fell apart
0:20:58 > 0:21:00after the brothers' trip to the mountains.
0:21:00 > 0:21:05Just like many Americans, the Dukas enjoyed playing around with guns,
0:21:05 > 0:21:09perfectly legally, including semi-automatics.
0:21:09 > 0:21:11GUNFIRE
0:21:11 > 0:21:13CAMERAMAN LAUGHS
0:21:15 > 0:21:18But some of their cries were distinctly unpatriotic.
0:21:22 > 0:21:25If you take a look at the video yourself,
0:21:25 > 0:21:27you can see it's not training.
0:21:27 > 0:21:30We're just having fun, shooting guns, in a public shooting range,
0:21:30 > 0:21:31in the daytime.
0:21:31 > 0:21:33You're shouting, "Allahu Akbar."
0:21:33 > 0:21:36We're shouting "Allahu Akbar," that means "God is Great."
0:21:39 > 0:21:43But guns and cries of "jihad" triggered suspicions
0:21:43 > 0:21:45when the video was taken to a store
0:21:45 > 0:21:47to be transferred to DVD.
0:21:47 > 0:21:52The clerk took one look at the footage and rang the police.
0:21:52 > 0:21:54GUNFIRE
0:21:54 > 0:21:57Believing they might be on to a terror cell,
0:21:57 > 0:22:00the FBI planned a sting to find out.
0:22:01 > 0:22:02Allahu Akbar!
0:22:02 > 0:22:05Just like their British counterparts,
0:22:05 > 0:22:09the FBI uses hired sources whose faces match the targets.
0:22:10 > 0:22:13Do you fit a source or a spy to a particular cell?
0:22:13 > 0:22:16We do, to either a cell or to a gap.
0:22:16 > 0:22:18Where we know we have a problem -
0:22:18 > 0:22:20an individual or a group -
0:22:20 > 0:22:23we will look across our sources
0:22:23 > 0:22:27and we will find the right source to penetrate that group.
0:22:29 > 0:22:33In this case, the FBI needed an Albanian.
0:22:34 > 0:22:38Besnik Bakalli was in jail awaiting deportation to his home country,
0:22:38 > 0:22:40where he'd been convicted of a shooting.
0:22:43 > 0:22:46The FBI also recruited Mahmoud Omar,
0:22:46 > 0:22:50an Egyptian with a criminal record who'd worked for the FBI before.
0:22:50 > 0:22:56Both were paid to infiltrate the Duka family and their friends.
0:22:59 > 0:23:04Now the FBI had to orchestrate the bump. Bakalli was sent in.
0:23:05 > 0:23:09Putting him in a position to be seen by the targets
0:23:09 > 0:23:13and speaking in a language that we thought may draw them
0:23:13 > 0:23:18was one of the bump scenarios that we ran through.
0:23:19 > 0:23:21After every Friday prayer
0:23:21 > 0:23:24we used to go to Dunkin' Donuts, around ten, 15 guys.
0:23:24 > 0:23:28We used to go over there, drink coffee, eat doughnuts, talk,
0:23:28 > 0:23:29have a little fun,
0:23:29 > 0:23:32and then, while we were leaving one day,
0:23:32 > 0:23:35Besnik Bakalli was walking in
0:23:35 > 0:23:38and he was on his cell phone, speaking Albanian.
0:23:38 > 0:23:40And us Albanians, there's not many in New Jersey,
0:23:40 > 0:23:43so we got a surprise and we said, "Oh, are you Albanian?"
0:23:43 > 0:23:45and he said, "Yeah, I'm Albanian,"
0:23:45 > 0:23:47so we got to meet him from there.
0:23:50 > 0:23:55Omar, the other FBI source, also worked his way into the Duka family.
0:23:56 > 0:24:00During long discussions with Omar, a friend of the Dukas talked about
0:24:00 > 0:24:04a possible attack on a nearby US military base, Fort Dix.
0:24:44 > 0:24:48But the FBI's two undercover sources had much looser rules of engagement
0:24:48 > 0:24:51than their British counterparts.
0:24:51 > 0:24:55There were long conversations that were never recorded
0:24:55 > 0:24:56and it was never clear
0:24:56 > 0:24:58who was making the running in the alleged plot.
0:24:58 > 0:25:00The basic fundamental issue
0:25:00 > 0:25:02with these individuals
0:25:02 > 0:25:04is there is very little control over them.
0:25:04 > 0:25:06They're under supervision and control
0:25:06 > 0:25:09while they're wearing their recording equipment
0:25:09 > 0:25:12and while they're going about their directed duties.
0:25:12 > 0:25:15We have no way of knowing how they interact with these individuals,
0:25:15 > 0:25:18these targets, when they're not under supervision,
0:25:18 > 0:25:20when they're not being recorded.
0:25:21 > 0:25:23How can you trust them?
0:25:23 > 0:25:25That's the million-dollar question.
0:25:25 > 0:25:27You really never can totally trust them
0:25:27 > 0:25:30and I think, if you do, then you're in trouble.
0:25:30 > 0:25:33We have to constantly try to validate what they're telling us,
0:25:33 > 0:25:36so we will try to record the conversations,
0:25:36 > 0:25:40we will give them tasks in which we already know the answer to.
0:25:40 > 0:25:43It's always a danger and it is one that we take very seriously.
0:25:44 > 0:25:47I personally think this whole case was set up.
0:25:47 > 0:25:50My brothers are Muslims, practising Muslims,
0:25:50 > 0:25:52very good people, helpful to the community.
0:25:52 > 0:25:54They basically built America.
0:25:54 > 0:25:57We were doing construction and roofing in America.
0:25:57 > 0:26:01How is a person like that going to destroy his own country
0:26:01 > 0:26:03when we're building it?
0:26:06 > 0:26:09In the transcript from taped conversations,
0:26:09 > 0:26:11one of the brothers apparently agreed
0:26:11 > 0:26:14to carry out what sounded like a terrorist attack.
0:26:15 > 0:26:17He said...
0:26:28 > 0:26:33The Dukas' lawyer argues these remarks were taken out of context.
0:26:33 > 0:26:35If you read a few lines further on, he says,
0:26:35 > 0:26:38"I'm not going to do it, I can't do that."
0:26:38 > 0:26:41So if you... That quote is horribly damning,
0:26:41 > 0:26:44but if you have the whole transcript and you see what led up to that
0:26:44 > 0:26:49and half a page later, it's like, "We can't do that."
0:26:50 > 0:26:53In 2007, the trap was finally set.
0:26:53 > 0:26:58Two of the Duka brothers went with Omar to his apartment to buy guns.
0:27:22 > 0:27:25Just before the police stormed in,
0:27:25 > 0:27:28the surveillance video went blank.
0:27:28 > 0:27:30POLICE: Police! Get down, get down!
0:27:30 > 0:27:31Drop your hands!
0:27:31 > 0:27:33Down! Get down!
0:27:33 > 0:27:35Get down! Down! Get down!
0:27:35 > 0:27:37At the same time,
0:27:37 > 0:27:41the FBI also swooped on the third Duka brother and his friend.
0:27:41 > 0:27:44We were coming back from Mister Softee's
0:27:44 > 0:27:46and, when we arrived at our apartment,
0:27:46 > 0:27:48we just saw, like, FBIs.
0:27:48 > 0:27:52They had cop cars and big vans everywhere
0:27:52 > 0:27:54and they just made him get out the car.
0:27:54 > 0:27:59After that, we really didn't see him until the next morning.
0:27:59 > 0:28:02The three Duka brothers claimed they were buying the guns
0:28:02 > 0:28:04for their next trip to the mountains.
0:28:04 > 0:28:08The jury didn't believe them and they were all given life sentences.
0:28:11 > 0:28:15The FBI's two undercover agents did well out of the operation.
0:28:15 > 0:28:19Omar was paid around 240,000
0:28:19 > 0:28:22and Bakalli 150,000.
0:28:22 > 0:28:27The plan to deport him to Albania was dropped.
0:28:28 > 0:28:32The family claim the whole case was based on entrapment.
0:28:34 > 0:28:35From the government,
0:28:35 > 0:28:38hiring informants to do something like this,
0:28:38 > 0:28:42you know, they took what they wanted to take from the evidence.
0:28:42 > 0:28:44They used what they wanted to use.
0:28:44 > 0:28:48I know what my brothers really are, I know that they're innocent.
0:28:48 > 0:28:51I know that they would never do anything like that.
0:28:51 > 0:28:53It's only entrapment if the person...
0:28:53 > 0:28:55has not expressed that he wanted to do it
0:28:55 > 0:28:58and is only looking for the tools to get it done
0:28:58 > 0:29:01and I think it's an irresponsible government
0:29:01 > 0:29:04who has that information and waits for it to happen.
0:29:04 > 0:29:06You don't know whether you're going to be too late
0:29:06 > 0:29:08and, again, in my job,
0:29:08 > 0:29:11I always envisioned myself walking up to the front door of a house
0:29:11 > 0:29:14and telling the mother and father that their child is dead
0:29:14 > 0:29:17because we didn't take the action that we needed to take.
0:29:23 > 0:29:26If FBI agents provide
0:29:26 > 0:29:30AK-47s, M16s,
0:29:30 > 0:29:34to the people that they suspect... isn't that entrapment?
0:29:34 > 0:29:37No, not if the people are looking for it,
0:29:37 > 0:29:40and you must understand that we do not give them...
0:29:40 > 0:29:43Whenever we give them a weapon, it'd be inoperable.
0:29:43 > 0:29:45Whenever we give 'em explosives, they are inert.
0:29:45 > 0:29:50In other words, we do not give them anything that could harm persons,
0:29:50 > 0:29:51but it is not entrapment
0:29:51 > 0:29:55if the person has the predisposition to undertake the crime.
0:29:55 > 0:30:01Has any case been lost because the defence of entrapment has succeeded?
0:30:01 > 0:30:04I am not aware of a single case where that has occurred
0:30:04 > 0:30:07in one of our terrorism cases, here in the US.
0:30:15 > 0:30:18I've looked quite closely at some of these American cases,
0:30:18 > 0:30:19and it's quite clear that there's
0:30:19 > 0:30:23a very different legal framework in operation in the United States.
0:30:23 > 0:30:27I doubt, I very much doubt
0:30:27 > 0:30:31whether some of them would...
0:30:33 > 0:30:35..would work in the United Kingdom legally.
0:30:35 > 0:30:39I just don't think they fit within the British concept
0:30:39 > 0:30:43of what is fair and proper for an undercover officer to do.
0:30:43 > 0:30:45'We need to talk.'
0:30:45 > 0:30:46Who is this?
0:30:46 > 0:30:48- GUNFIRE - Aah!
0:30:51 > 0:30:56If the Americans go further than the British to obtain convictions,
0:30:56 > 0:30:58what about the ultimate sanction?
0:30:58 > 0:31:00HE YELPS
0:31:09 > 0:31:13Do modern spies really have a licence to kill?
0:31:16 > 0:31:20The name's Bond, James Bond.
0:31:22 > 0:31:26British spies are adamant this is just a Hollywood fantasy.
0:31:26 > 0:31:28The key elements of the James Bond myth
0:31:28 > 0:31:32are that we're some kind of military or paramilitary organisation -
0:31:32 > 0:31:33that's not the case,
0:31:33 > 0:31:35and the other key element of the myth
0:31:35 > 0:31:37is that we're some kind of rogue organisation,
0:31:37 > 0:31:40that we go off and do our own thing, that we set our own tasking.
0:31:40 > 0:31:44The reality is that we operate within a clear framework, within government.
0:31:44 > 0:31:46Do you have a licence to kill?
0:31:46 > 0:31:49No, we don't.
0:31:49 > 0:31:51If you look at the way that Hollywood treats spies
0:31:51 > 0:31:56and the way that MI5 is depicted in...in Spooks,
0:31:56 > 0:32:00can you just... go off on an operation
0:32:00 > 0:32:03and do more or less what you what,
0:32:03 > 0:32:06follow your instincts and do what you think has to be done...
0:32:06 > 0:32:08without checking?
0:32:09 > 0:32:12We operate within a legal framework, so we're not above the law.
0:32:12 > 0:32:14I mean, if we started doing things like that,
0:32:14 > 0:32:18then we're no better than the people we're going up against.
0:32:18 > 0:32:21we have these rules in place for a reason and it's to protect everybody.
0:32:28 > 0:32:32But, while British spies insist they don't have a licence to kill,
0:32:32 > 0:32:35the same can't be said for spies in other countries.
0:32:37 > 0:32:39Tehran, November 2010.
0:32:44 > 0:32:47Majid Shahriari, one of Iran's top nuclear scientists,
0:32:47 > 0:32:51was travelling with his wife on his way to work.
0:32:52 > 0:32:56As Shahriari slowly made his way through the rush hour,
0:32:56 > 0:32:59he failed to notice a motorbike tailing him.
0:33:04 > 0:33:07The pillion passenger was clasping a magnetic mine,
0:33:07 > 0:33:09waiting for the moment to strike.
0:33:17 > 0:33:19LOUD EXPLOSION
0:33:22 > 0:33:25Majid Shahriari was killed in the explosion.
0:33:25 > 0:33:27His wife was seriously injured.
0:33:30 > 0:33:33Iran has accused Israel of being behind the killing.
0:33:33 > 0:33:34And Israelis do have every reason
0:33:34 > 0:33:37to destabilise Iran's nuclear programme,
0:33:37 > 0:33:41since Iran has threatened to destroy their state.
0:33:42 > 0:33:45I think that today all intelligence services agree that
0:33:45 > 0:33:48in about... or by the end of this decade,
0:33:48 > 0:33:51they're going to be equipped with a nuclear bomb.
0:33:51 > 0:33:53Iran with a nuclear bomb,
0:33:53 > 0:33:57that's going to change the situation in the Middle East.
0:33:59 > 0:34:01Over the last two years,
0:34:01 > 0:34:04four Iranian nuclear scientists have been killed.
0:34:04 > 0:34:06They're believed to be pre-emptive assassinations
0:34:06 > 0:34:09designed to stall Iran's nuclear programme.
0:34:10 > 0:34:12The philosophical dilemma is,
0:34:12 > 0:34:15either you're going to wait on your shore
0:34:15 > 0:34:18until the shark will come and attack your swimmers,
0:34:18 > 0:34:22or you're going to go and find your hunter in his place, in his location.
0:34:22 > 0:34:27The finger of blame for these professionally executed "hits"
0:34:27 > 0:34:30points to Israel's overseas intelligence agency, the Mossad -
0:34:30 > 0:34:33or its surrogates -
0:34:33 > 0:34:36although Israel has denied any involvement.
0:34:36 > 0:34:40Is the Mossad behind the killing of Iran's nuclear scientists?
0:34:40 > 0:34:41I don't know.
0:34:41 > 0:34:45I don't know, but, as I told you, so many countries are so interested
0:34:45 > 0:34:49in blocking the Iranian nuclear project.
0:34:49 > 0:34:52Who do you think is behind the assassinations
0:34:52 > 0:34:55of several of Iran's nuclear scientists?
0:34:55 > 0:34:56I honestly don't know
0:34:56 > 0:35:00and that is not something in which the United Kingdom is involved.
0:35:00 > 0:35:03Do you think the Mossad is behind the killing
0:35:03 > 0:35:06of Iran's nuclear scientists?
0:35:09 > 0:35:10Next question.
0:35:17 > 0:35:21But an assassination in Dubai, in 2010,
0:35:21 > 0:35:24was almost certainly the work of the Mossad.
0:35:24 > 0:35:28And it came straight out of the pages of a spy bestseller.
0:35:32 > 0:35:34Airport cameras captured the moment
0:35:34 > 0:35:38when an alleged Mossad hit squad of over 25 agents
0:35:38 > 0:35:41entered the country under false passports.
0:35:46 > 0:35:48Their target was Mahmoud al-Mabhouh,
0:35:48 > 0:35:49a senior Hamas leader
0:35:49 > 0:35:52wanted by Israel for killing two of its soldiers.
0:35:57 > 0:36:02Members of the hit squad were also captured on the hotel's CCTV
0:36:02 > 0:36:04as they prepared to liquidate their target...
0:36:04 > 0:36:06some dressed for tennis.
0:36:10 > 0:36:13It's thought that Mabhouh was drugged and then suffocated.
0:36:16 > 0:36:19But by the time his body was discovered,
0:36:19 > 0:36:21the team had slipped out of the country.
0:36:25 > 0:36:27No-one has ever been prosecuted.
0:36:29 > 0:36:31LOUD EXPLOSION
0:36:38 > 0:36:40For Hollywood, the image of Israel's vengeful spies
0:36:40 > 0:36:42spelt good box-office business.
0:36:44 > 0:36:48Steven Spielberg dramatised how the Mossad hunted down Palestinians
0:36:48 > 0:36:50suspected of being behind
0:36:50 > 0:36:55the murder of Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics in 1972.
0:36:58 > 0:37:02The Black September terrorists were captured on television,
0:37:02 > 0:37:05with tracksuited German police closing in
0:37:05 > 0:37:08as the attack unfolded in the Olympic Village.
0:37:08 > 0:37:1011 Israelis were killed.
0:37:10 > 0:37:13In the months that followed,
0:37:13 > 0:37:17the Mossad was tasked with eliminating those Palestinians
0:37:17 > 0:37:20suspected of being behind the massacre.
0:37:20 > 0:37:23The operation was codenamed Wrath Of God.
0:37:23 > 0:37:25The Mossad killed 11.
0:37:27 > 0:37:29Back in 1993, I interviewed
0:37:29 > 0:37:33the former head of Israel's military intelligence,
0:37:33 > 0:37:35who admitted that the Mossad was given a licence to kill.
0:37:35 > 0:37:41It's one of the rare occasions in which Israel has confirmed it.
0:37:41 > 0:37:44I mean, eliminate the leaders of Black September,
0:37:44 > 0:37:47as much as possible, or as many as possible.
0:37:47 > 0:37:48Kill them?
0:37:48 > 0:37:50To be honest, yes.
0:37:50 > 0:37:53Who was to carry out the killings?
0:37:53 > 0:37:55People of the Mossad.
0:37:57 > 0:37:58How?
0:37:59 > 0:38:01By all kinds of means.
0:38:01 > 0:38:04It could be by booby-trapping, could be by shooting,
0:38:04 > 0:38:08could be by...blowing up a car.
0:38:19 > 0:38:23This is all that's left of the car hit by an Israeli missile,
0:38:23 > 0:38:27fired from a helicopter in November 2000,
0:38:27 > 0:38:29just outside Bethlehem.
0:38:29 > 0:38:31It wasn't a Mossad operation,
0:38:31 > 0:38:35but one masterminded by Israel's equivalent of MI5 - Shin Bet.
0:38:35 > 0:38:39Unlike the Mossad, Shin Bet openly admits it.
0:38:42 > 0:38:44The target was Hussein Abiyat,
0:38:44 > 0:38:47the commander of one of the West Bank's most militant groups.
0:38:49 > 0:38:52The problem was that he was deep in Bethlehem
0:38:52 > 0:38:57and, in order to put a hand on him, we needed to risk soldiers...
0:38:57 > 0:39:00in a level that was too risky.
0:39:01 > 0:39:02Abiyat died instantly
0:39:02 > 0:39:05when the missile homed in on a tracking device
0:39:05 > 0:39:08that an informer had planted in the car.
0:39:10 > 0:39:14How does the Palestinian community regard your son today?
0:39:15 > 0:39:19Hussein is a martyr.
0:39:19 > 0:39:22Before his martyrdom, he was a hero.
0:39:22 > 0:39:24And a great leader.
0:39:30 > 0:39:34The killing of Abiyat became a test case in Israel
0:39:34 > 0:39:37when human rights campaigners took the government to court.
0:39:37 > 0:39:40I remember myself as head of Shin Bet,
0:39:40 > 0:39:42I, right at the beginning of my term,
0:39:42 > 0:39:48I said, "I'm not going to accept any grey zone in my terminology.
0:39:48 > 0:39:52"Either we have right, or black and white.
0:39:52 > 0:39:55"We're allowed to do or not allowed to do.
0:39:55 > 0:39:57"We work for the State
0:39:57 > 0:40:02"and either it's authorised by the State, or not."
0:40:02 > 0:40:05I don't think that we have to be shamed
0:40:05 > 0:40:09for eliminating arch-terrorists.
0:40:11 > 0:40:14The Supreme Court ruled the killing was legal.
0:40:15 > 0:40:18It said such operations were lawful if there was
0:40:18 > 0:40:21"strong and convincing intelligence",
0:40:21 > 0:40:24if no "less harmful means" could be employed
0:40:24 > 0:40:26and every effort was made to
0:40:26 > 0:40:29"minimise harm to innocent civilians".
0:40:29 > 0:40:33But two innocent civilians were also killed in the missile attack.
0:40:37 > 0:40:40One was the wife of Mohammed Naji Danun.
0:40:40 > 0:40:42She'd been visiting her sister.
0:40:45 > 0:40:48When she came out, the missile was heading towards Hussein.
0:40:48 > 0:40:50She was close to the car.
0:40:50 > 0:40:52When the missile hit, it exploded
0:40:52 > 0:40:53and they were killed.
0:40:53 > 0:40:56She was neither carrying arms in resistance,
0:40:56 > 0:40:58nor was she carrying missiles.
0:40:58 > 0:41:01She was completely peaceful.
0:41:09 > 0:41:12America assassinates its enemies too.
0:41:12 > 0:41:17Unlike Israel, America's policy has never been tested in court.
0:41:21 > 0:41:24The CIA has overseen the use of aerial drones,
0:41:24 > 0:41:28the unmanned spy in the sky, armed with deadly Hellfire missiles.
0:41:33 > 0:41:34LOUD EXPLOSION
0:41:34 > 0:41:38It's estimated drones have killed up to 3,000 people,
0:41:38 > 0:41:42including many Al-Qaeda commanders and hundreds of civilians.
0:41:47 > 0:41:51These missions are known as "targeted killings".
0:41:54 > 0:41:57And they've more than doubled under President Obama.
0:41:57 > 0:41:59I think the drone strategy has been instrumental
0:41:59 > 0:42:01in keeping Al-Qaeda on the run.
0:42:01 > 0:42:04Keeping their head down.
0:42:04 > 0:42:08That doesn't allow them to settle, open their training camps,
0:42:08 > 0:42:09keep them moving,
0:42:09 > 0:42:11so right now they have a very difficult time
0:42:11 > 0:42:15running the operations they need to run to support their terrorism.
0:42:17 > 0:42:20The most high-profile victim of these targeted killings
0:42:20 > 0:42:24was the radical Islamist cleric Anwar al-Awlaki,
0:42:24 > 0:42:27the spiritual leader of Al-Qaeda's affiliate in the Yemen.
0:42:29 > 0:42:31We are against evil
0:42:31 > 0:42:35and America as a whole has turned into a nation of evil.
0:42:35 > 0:42:38His fiery sermons on the internet
0:42:38 > 0:42:41have radicalised many young Muslims around the world
0:42:41 > 0:42:44and turned some into terrorists.
0:42:44 > 0:42:47One was the so-called underpants bomber Abdulmutallab,
0:42:47 > 0:42:50who tried to blow up a plane over Detroit.
0:42:54 > 0:42:57Others included the young British Muslims
0:42:57 > 0:42:59who planned to bomb the London Stock Exchange.
0:43:07 > 0:43:11Last September, after many months of covert surveillance,
0:43:11 > 0:43:15the CIA finally caught up with al-Awlaki.
0:43:28 > 0:43:30LOUD EXPLOSION
0:43:33 > 0:43:37Earlier this morning, Anwar al-Awlaki,
0:43:37 > 0:43:40a leader of Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula,
0:43:40 > 0:43:42was killed in Yemen.
0:43:43 > 0:43:44The death...
0:43:44 > 0:43:47AUDIENCE APPLAUDS
0:43:48 > 0:43:51The death of Awlaki is a major blow
0:43:51 > 0:43:55to Al-Qaeda's most active operational affiliate.
0:43:57 > 0:44:00But al-Awlaki's targeted killing proved highly controversial.
0:44:01 > 0:44:04He was a US citizen, born in America,
0:44:04 > 0:44:08and US citizens are entitled to the protection of the Fifth Amendment
0:44:08 > 0:44:10of the American Constitution.
0:44:10 > 0:44:14It says, "No person may be deprived of life or liberty
0:44:14 > 0:44:16"without due process of law."
0:44:16 > 0:44:21And al-Awlaki had never been charged with any crime.
0:44:22 > 0:44:25The point is that American citizens enjoy constitutional rights
0:44:25 > 0:44:29as well as rights under international law
0:44:29 > 0:44:31and, as an American citizen,
0:44:31 > 0:44:33Anwar al-Awlaki enjoyed the right to due process
0:44:33 > 0:44:37under the Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution.
0:44:37 > 0:44:40I do think it's fair to say that the United States has crossed
0:44:40 > 0:44:43not just a political Rubicon, but a legal one as well.
0:44:43 > 0:44:45It's a very significant step.
0:44:48 > 0:44:49In using the drones,
0:44:49 > 0:44:54isn't America setting itself up as judge, jury and executioner?
0:44:55 > 0:45:00To the extent that war sets anyone up as judge, jury and executioner,
0:45:00 > 0:45:02that would be true, but it's war.
0:45:02 > 0:45:05And it's clearly war. There's a movement -
0:45:05 > 0:45:07granted, it's not a government and they're not uniformed -
0:45:07 > 0:45:10but it's a war and it's a global movement,
0:45:10 > 0:45:13and it's run by a very capable enemy...
0:45:15 > 0:45:18..and that's how wars are...
0:45:18 > 0:45:19prosecuted.
0:45:19 > 0:45:22I think it's very important to fight it within the law
0:45:22 > 0:45:25but people's interpretations of the law are different.
0:45:25 > 0:45:28The law is never strictly black and white,
0:45:28 > 0:45:30or rarely is it strictly black and white.
0:45:30 > 0:45:33The United States has the right, just like any other country,
0:45:33 > 0:45:34to defend itself,
0:45:34 > 0:45:38but the question is how that right is actually exercised -
0:45:38 > 0:45:41whether the government has the authority to use lethal force,
0:45:41 > 0:45:43even against threats that aren't imminent.
0:45:43 > 0:45:45And if it does have that authority,
0:45:45 > 0:45:49who gets to decide whether a threat is sufficiently significant,
0:45:49 > 0:45:52that the use of lethal force is appropriate?
0:45:54 > 0:45:57If I were sitting back in the business and looking at someone
0:45:57 > 0:46:00who is plotting the murder of innocents
0:46:00 > 0:46:02and someone said, "You don't have the capability
0:46:02 > 0:46:04"to bring him to justice in the United States,"
0:46:04 > 0:46:07and you know that he's plotting with people
0:46:07 > 0:46:10who've already shown the capability and intent to murder innocents,
0:46:10 > 0:46:12what do you do?
0:46:12 > 0:46:15I would say, "Boy, this is not fun and it's not pretty
0:46:15 > 0:46:21"but I can't afford the sacrifice of 250 people on a plane to happen."
0:46:24 > 0:46:25In America's eyes,
0:46:25 > 0:46:28the killing of Osama Bin Laden in May last year
0:46:28 > 0:46:30was part of that war.
0:46:35 > 0:46:37In an airborne assault
0:46:37 > 0:46:40coordinated by the CIA,
0:46:40 > 0:46:42US special forces shot him dead in his bedroom.
0:46:46 > 0:46:48Most Americans don't believe
0:46:48 > 0:46:51Bin Laden should have been brought to trial
0:46:51 > 0:46:55and don't lose any sleep over drones assassinating terrorists.
0:46:57 > 0:47:01Britain uses unarmed drones in Afghanistan
0:47:01 > 0:47:04and is being sued for allegedly providing intelligence
0:47:04 > 0:47:05to the Americans.
0:47:05 > 0:47:07But the government is adamant
0:47:07 > 0:47:09that it is not engaged in assassinations
0:47:09 > 0:47:13and that its spy agencies work under strict rules.
0:47:13 > 0:47:16We are not allowed to have,
0:47:16 > 0:47:17there is no space to have
0:47:17 > 0:47:19renegade James Bond-type officers.
0:47:19 > 0:47:22There's a very clear process that you need to go through.
0:47:22 > 0:47:24Everything needs to be authorised.
0:47:26 > 0:47:28We operate within the law
0:47:28 > 0:47:30and there is a process both internally within SIS
0:47:30 > 0:47:33and also for seeking ministerial approval
0:47:33 > 0:47:35that ensures that that's the case.
0:47:35 > 0:47:39So do ministers have to approve operations
0:47:39 > 0:47:41that you may be involved in, in the end?
0:47:41 > 0:47:42Yes, they would.
0:47:42 > 0:47:44So ministers have to approve
0:47:44 > 0:47:47particularly risky and sensitive operations.
0:47:47 > 0:47:50How accountable are the Secret Intelligence Services
0:47:50 > 0:47:55when everything is still largely shrouded in secrecy?
0:47:56 > 0:47:58Well, they're accountable in various ways.
0:47:58 > 0:48:01They're accountable through elected politicians,
0:48:01 > 0:48:03to an unusual degree, I think, in this country
0:48:03 > 0:48:05compared to many other countries.
0:48:05 > 0:48:07In other words, to me or to the Home Secretary.
0:48:07 > 0:48:09Their principal operations
0:48:09 > 0:48:13require the approval of the elected leaders of the country.
0:48:13 > 0:48:15But in the 1980s,
0:48:15 > 0:48:18when the threat to Britain from the Provisional IRA
0:48:18 > 0:48:19was at its most intense,
0:48:19 > 0:48:22allegations of a British shoot-to-kill policy
0:48:22 > 0:48:25were given fresh impetus.
0:48:28 > 0:48:30The controversy peaked in 1988,
0:48:30 > 0:48:34when three members of the IRA were shot dead in Gibraltar.
0:48:34 > 0:48:37The suspects had been under
0:48:37 > 0:48:39MI5 and Special Branch surveillance for months.
0:48:41 > 0:48:43When intelligence indicated
0:48:43 > 0:48:45they were about to bomb a British military band,
0:48:45 > 0:48:49soldiers from the SAS opened fire.
0:48:49 > 0:48:51The IRA members were unarmed.
0:48:54 > 0:48:56The government repeated its denial
0:48:56 > 0:48:59that there was any shoot-to-kill policy.
0:49:03 > 0:49:06And that's not the only denial.
0:49:07 > 0:49:10The government has also denied any involvement
0:49:10 > 0:49:12in extraordinary rendition,
0:49:12 > 0:49:15where terrorist suspects are effectively kidnapped
0:49:15 > 0:49:18and taken to foreign countries to be tortured.
0:49:21 > 0:49:25This was the dark shadow cast over the Bush and Blair regimes.
0:49:25 > 0:49:29Hollywood tackled the brutal realties head-on.
0:49:29 > 0:49:30Sir?
0:49:30 > 0:49:32There's been some kind of mistake.
0:49:32 > 0:49:35Why have my clothes been taken from me?
0:49:35 > 0:49:36I want my clothes.
0:49:39 > 0:49:42No-one has told me why I'm here or what I've done.
0:49:42 > 0:49:44I...
0:49:44 > 0:49:46This is crazy! I want my clothes!
0:49:46 > 0:49:48And I want to speak to a lawyer immediately!
0:49:49 > 0:49:52Yes. Yes, of course you do.
0:49:56 > 0:49:58But in recent months
0:49:58 > 0:50:02evidence has emerged from the rubble of the Libyan revolution
0:50:02 > 0:50:06that British spies may indeed have crossed the line into illegality.
0:50:11 > 0:50:16A NATO bomb had blasted a large hole in Libya's intelligence headquarters
0:50:16 > 0:50:19and, in the process, blew a large hole in Britain's insistence
0:50:19 > 0:50:24that it had never been complicit in rendition and torture.
0:50:27 > 0:50:29Back in 2004,
0:50:29 > 0:50:32Tony Blair's government had embraced Colonel Gaddafi,
0:50:32 > 0:50:35having encouraged him to abandon his weapons of mass destruction
0:50:35 > 0:50:36and renounce terrorism.
0:50:36 > 0:50:38Lucrative oil deals
0:50:38 > 0:50:40and rich business pickings
0:50:40 > 0:50:42were part of the prize.
0:50:42 > 0:50:47Gaddafi was now Britain's ally in the war on Islamist extremism.
0:50:50 > 0:50:53One of the main opposition groups to Gaddafi
0:50:53 > 0:50:55was the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group.
0:50:55 > 0:50:59MI5 believes it was closely allied to Al-Qaeda
0:50:59 > 0:51:01and involved in channelling British jihadis to Iraq.
0:51:04 > 0:51:05Were you a terrorist?
0:51:07 > 0:51:08Certainly not.
0:51:08 > 0:51:11We were working for the sake of a just cause,
0:51:11 > 0:51:13which was to rescue the Libyan people
0:51:13 > 0:51:15and our country
0:51:15 > 0:51:16from Gaddafi's rule.
0:51:16 > 0:51:19Its leader, Abdel Hakim Belhadj,
0:51:19 > 0:51:22had met Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan,
0:51:22 > 0:51:24whilst fighting the Russians.
0:51:25 > 0:51:28Many people have met with Osama Bin Laden
0:51:28 > 0:51:29and it's not possible at all
0:51:29 > 0:51:33to describe those who have met Osama Bin Laden as terrorists.
0:51:33 > 0:51:37We had to meet because we were all in the same battle.
0:51:37 > 0:51:39GUNFIRE
0:51:44 > 0:51:46In 2004, Belhadj was in Malaysia.
0:51:46 > 0:51:51At the time, he wasn't aware of Britain's new alliance with Gaddafi.
0:51:51 > 0:51:54He was planning to fly to London to apply for political asylum
0:51:54 > 0:51:59and sounded out the possibility at the British Embassy in Kuala Lumpur.
0:52:01 > 0:52:04I wasn't informed that my application for asylum
0:52:04 > 0:52:06had been approved or not.
0:52:06 > 0:52:08They did receive the request
0:52:08 > 0:52:12but, no, we didn't receive a positive reply from the embassy.
0:52:15 > 0:52:18Belhadj never got as far as London.
0:52:20 > 0:52:22MI6 tipped off its intelligence partners
0:52:22 > 0:52:25that Belhadj was on the move.
0:52:27 > 0:52:31The CIA was alerted and intercepted him en route.
0:52:34 > 0:52:38Belhadj claims he was then drugged and rendered to Libya
0:52:38 > 0:52:41where he was incarcerated in Gaddafi's notorious Abu Salim jail.
0:52:44 > 0:52:47I was there for four and a half years in that cell.
0:52:47 > 0:52:49Sometimes years would pass,
0:52:49 > 0:52:53I mean, a whole year passed and I was prevented from seeing sunlight.
0:52:53 > 0:52:57All this in addition to the other torture which we endured.
0:53:07 > 0:53:12Evidence of Britain's apparent complicity in Belhadj's rendition
0:53:12 > 0:53:15only came to light last year when secret documents were found
0:53:15 > 0:53:18in the ruins of Gaddafi's spy headquarters in Tripoli.
0:53:23 > 0:53:26They included correspondence to the head of Libyan intelligence,
0:53:26 > 0:53:28Musa Kusa.
0:53:28 > 0:53:30It was signed "M,"
0:53:30 > 0:53:33assumed to be Sir Mark Allen, the senior MI6 officer,
0:53:33 > 0:53:35who'd personally orchestrated
0:53:35 > 0:53:38Gaddafi's new relationship with Britain.
0:53:40 > 0:53:45In one of his letters, Sir Mark refers to Belhadj as "air cargo"
0:53:45 > 0:53:49and congratulates Libya's spy chief on its "safe arrival".
0:53:49 > 0:53:53Sir Mark points out, "The intelligence was British,"
0:53:53 > 0:53:56and sees no reason to "channel requests for information"
0:53:56 > 0:53:58through the Americans.
0:54:01 > 0:54:04What this correspondence and this letter represent
0:54:04 > 0:54:08is very regrettable proof that they have participated in this matter
0:54:08 > 0:54:09and they are trying to show
0:54:09 > 0:54:13that the Libyan Intelligence Service now owes them something.
0:54:18 > 0:54:24We now understand that MI6 sought and received government approval.
0:54:26 > 0:54:29Jack Straw, the then Foreign Secretary,
0:54:29 > 0:54:30denied on BBC radio
0:54:30 > 0:54:33that the government had any involvement in rendition.
0:54:35 > 0:54:37'We were opposed to unlawful rendition.
0:54:37 > 0:54:41'We were opposed to any use of torture or similar methods.
0:54:41 > 0:54:43'And not only did we not agree with it,
0:54:43 > 0:54:47'we were not complicit in it, nor did we turn a blind eye to it.'
0:54:48 > 0:54:50But he also added...
0:54:50 > 0:54:52'No Foreign Secretary can know all the details
0:54:52 > 0:54:56'of what its intelligence agencies are doing at any one time.'
0:54:57 > 0:55:02Jack Straw's office told me he had nothing further to add.
0:55:02 > 0:55:04Do you blame the British?
0:55:04 > 0:55:07Of course, the MI6 service
0:55:07 > 0:55:09is considered a major player in my arrest
0:55:09 > 0:55:12and this act has caused me harm and suffering.
0:55:15 > 0:55:19We have come into office with very strong views about rendition
0:55:19 > 0:55:22that may lead to the torture of suspects.
0:55:22 > 0:55:27But unlawful rendition is not something that I would approve, no.
0:55:27 > 0:55:30The documentation clearly says,
0:55:30 > 0:55:33and this is a communication
0:55:33 > 0:55:36from a person we assume to be Sir Mark Allen,
0:55:36 > 0:55:40a very senior former SIS official,
0:55:40 > 0:55:46who refers to Mr Belhadj as cargo
0:55:46 > 0:55:49and says that we - ie SIS -
0:55:49 > 0:55:54provided the intelligence that made his rendition possible.
0:55:54 > 0:55:58Doesn't that indicate that we were previously complicit in rendition?
0:55:58 > 0:56:00Well, this is subject to legal proceedings,
0:56:00 > 0:56:03so it's not possible for a minister to comment on it.
0:56:03 > 0:56:06But the evidence is there in black and white.
0:56:06 > 0:56:07Well, the evidence...
0:56:07 > 0:56:10You've heard some evidence? You're not a judge.
0:56:10 > 0:56:11I've not heard it, no...
0:56:11 > 0:56:14You may not have seen all the evidence from all the sources.
0:56:17 > 0:56:23The Metropolitan Police are now investigating these allegations.
0:56:25 > 0:56:29Ironically, Abdel Hakim Belhadj is now a leading figure
0:56:29 > 0:56:32in the new Libya that Britain helped create.
0:56:32 > 0:56:35At the same time, he's suing the British Government
0:56:35 > 0:56:37and Sir Mark Allen,
0:56:37 > 0:56:41alleging complicity in his rendition and ill-treatment.
0:56:44 > 0:56:47The Libyan story raises a central question.
0:56:47 > 0:56:50Why should we believe what governments tell us
0:56:50 > 0:56:53when it took a bomb to uncover the truth?
0:56:54 > 0:56:58I think the vast majority of people in the country understand
0:56:58 > 0:57:01that a great deal of secret intelligence has to remain secret
0:57:01 > 0:57:04and there isn't anything sinister about that,
0:57:04 > 0:57:06we do that so that we keep
0:57:06 > 0:57:10many of the methods and techniques of our agencies a secret
0:57:10 > 0:57:14so that they are affective in saving the lives of our citizens,
0:57:14 > 0:57:16in protecting our allies
0:57:16 > 0:57:19and protecting the British national interest in the world.
0:57:19 > 0:57:24And so... Yes, some things are going to have to be kept secret.
0:57:35 > 0:57:38In a democracy, we have to make sure that secrecy
0:57:38 > 0:57:40is both accountable and justified,
0:57:40 > 0:57:43as the ethical landscape in which modern spies operate
0:57:43 > 0:57:46is often grey, not black and white.
0:57:51 > 0:57:53In making this series,
0:57:53 > 0:57:57I've found that their world can be just like the movies,
0:57:57 > 0:57:59from undercover stings to secret sources
0:57:59 > 0:58:03and, in other countries, even shoot-to-kill operations.
0:58:06 > 0:58:09But the real modern spies are nothing like James Bond.
0:58:09 > 0:58:12Their work is dangerous, highly complex,
0:58:12 > 0:58:16often mundane and rarely glamorous,
0:58:16 > 0:58:20but in the end it can and does save lives.
0:58:44 > 0:58:47Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd