0:00:10 > 0:00:14Good afternoon and welcome to a special edition of Points Of View
0:00:14 > 0:00:18with the BBC's science and nature commissioner, Kim Shillinglaw. Welcome.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21Points Of View has been promised for some time there's going to be
0:00:21 > 0:00:24an increase in science programming and the launch
0:00:24 > 0:00:27of the new autumn schedule gave us something to look at.
0:00:27 > 0:00:29We'll come to that in a moment.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32First, let's take a whistle-stop tour of other programmes.
0:00:32 > 0:00:36We start with something that caused a lot of comment last year - Young Apprentice.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39I've already set up and run three businesses.
0:00:39 > 0:00:41I've sold one for profit to a major firm. I'm only 16.
0:00:41 > 0:00:44Just because I'm from a working-class background
0:00:44 > 0:00:48doesn't mean I don't have high ambitions. It's not where I'm from, it's where I'm going.
0:00:59 > 0:01:03And this was highly trailed - the new drama Death In Paradise.
0:01:03 > 0:01:05But did it live up to the hype?
0:01:05 > 0:01:08Sainte-Marie was colonised by the French,
0:01:08 > 0:01:12who lost it to the British, who lost it to the Dutch.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15The Dutch lost it back to the French.
0:01:27 > 0:01:32So, that was Death In Paradise. And now we turn to marine paradise.
0:01:32 > 0:01:33Kim, this is your territory.
0:01:33 > 0:01:36One programme we were watching recently
0:01:36 > 0:01:39which was very, very popular was Natural World.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56I'm so glad to hear that programme was popular with the viewers.
0:01:56 > 0:01:59I don't know about Ingrid -
0:01:59 > 0:02:01she's obviously a working scientist,
0:02:01 > 0:02:06but we'll certainly be returning to marine animals -
0:02:06 > 0:02:09Frozen Planet and also Great Barrier Reef, which is coming to BBC Two.
0:02:09 > 0:02:12Let's stick with new talent for a moment
0:02:12 > 0:02:15because there is another scientist that people want to see more of.
0:02:15 > 0:02:19It's the only metal that's liquid at room temperature.
0:02:28 > 0:02:29What are you planning for him?
0:02:29 > 0:02:32He is going to be doing another series for us
0:02:32 > 0:02:35called Order And Disorder on BBC Four.
0:02:35 > 0:02:38We'll be seeing that next year.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41We're talking to him about a couple of other things beyond that as well.
0:02:41 > 0:02:44OK, we've got one for you now that we covered a couple of weeks ago.
0:02:44 > 0:02:48It's Bang Goes The Theory's special on nuclear power.
0:02:48 > 0:02:52It was praised by some for being succinct, concise,
0:02:52 > 0:02:53but not by others.
0:03:03 > 0:03:07I think it was legitimate for Bang to seek to set
0:03:07 > 0:03:13the number of deaths from Chernobyl in the context of other deaths.
0:03:13 > 0:03:16Do you take great care not to mishandle statistics in general?
0:03:16 > 0:03:20We would always seek to make sure that the statistics
0:03:20 > 0:03:25we use in a broadcast programme are from the most authoritative sources
0:03:25 > 0:03:27that we can find at the time of production.
0:03:27 > 0:03:29Thanks. We'll come back to you.
0:03:29 > 0:03:32Statistics seem to be massaged up and down
0:03:32 > 0:03:34according to the person who's giving them.
0:03:34 > 0:03:38And the same is true, I guess, of quotes from cowboy builders.
0:03:38 > 0:03:44Cowboy builders are the subject of a whole rash of new BBC programmes.
0:03:44 > 0:03:45Viewer Lee Tidman
0:03:45 > 0:03:49plies a perfectly respectable trade as a building contractor.
0:03:49 > 0:03:54But he's aghast at what he sees as shoddy workmanship by the BBC.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00Stick with me and I'll help prevent you
0:04:00 > 0:04:02from falling into the Cowboy Trap.
0:04:03 > 0:04:06Cowboy Trap? What's that all about?
0:04:06 > 0:04:10I just couldn't believe that a programme called Cowboy Trap
0:04:10 > 0:04:14could so successfully not be a cowboy trap.
0:04:17 > 0:04:21From the programme, I expected to see the BBC or whoever makes
0:04:21 > 0:04:26the programme sort out the problems with the work that they had done.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29But nobody was brought to task or to book.
0:04:29 > 0:04:31Nobody could say, "We need to avoid these people
0:04:31 > 0:04:33"because they do bad work."
0:04:33 > 0:04:36- All they got was their room painted. - 'After a couple of days' hard graft,
0:04:36 > 0:04:39'they're well on the way to transforming this room.'
0:04:39 > 0:04:41So, with the Cowboy Trap sprung,
0:04:41 > 0:04:44it is another expose of the building trade,
0:04:44 > 0:04:48Dirty Tricks Of The Tradesmen, that has raised the ire of many viewers.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59On Dirty Tricks Of The Tradesmen, there's two aspects.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03There's one where they investigate things that have gone wrong.
0:05:03 > 0:05:07We lift the lid on some of the UK's most shocking tradesmen rip-offs.
0:05:07 > 0:05:11But at the same time, they're showing the consumer what tricks to look out for
0:05:11 > 0:05:15and what to do and what not to do when having work done on your home.
0:05:15 > 0:05:18Leaking radiator - I obviously get loads of these.
0:05:18 > 0:05:22Probably just an O-ring. Take me about quarter of an hour to fix it.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25But the water looks pretty murky - I'll try and persuade him
0:05:25 > 0:05:27there's corrosion going on in the system.
0:05:27 > 0:05:30One of the best things is Roger going into the back of his van.
0:05:30 > 0:05:33He keeps going up to these little cameras and going,
0:05:33 > 0:05:35"I'm going to get another 400 quid out of her!"
0:06:00 > 0:06:03His hands are permanently glued into his pockets.
0:06:03 > 0:06:05..to work even harder...
0:06:05 > 0:06:06..for thousands of us each year.
0:06:06 > 0:06:10I think this programme's better than Cowboy Trap because it actually
0:06:10 > 0:06:15does alert the public to the sort of tricks a rogue tradesman might use.
0:06:15 > 0:06:18And also, it does make it painfully obvious
0:06:18 > 0:06:21that the British public are probably way too trusting.
0:06:21 > 0:06:25So, criticism that no real action is taken against the cowboys
0:06:25 > 0:06:28who are uncovered in those types of shows. And separately, Kim,
0:06:28 > 0:06:31some criticism for you about the Hadron Collider -
0:06:31 > 0:06:36this great particle accelerator where particles are banged together
0:06:36 > 0:06:38to teach us about the origins of the universe.
0:06:38 > 0:06:42It was restarted in CERN. People saying, "Where was the coverage?"
0:06:53 > 0:06:57- Did you just forget it was happening?- That...
0:06:57 > 0:07:00It's a very interesting comment from the viewer.
0:07:00 > 0:07:05It's the sort of comment we're always really grateful to have because it
0:07:05 > 0:07:08helps us know what people care about and want to see programmes about.
0:07:08 > 0:07:14In this particular case, the restart of the Large Hadron Collider was
0:07:14 > 0:07:18very well covered by our news outlets
0:07:18 > 0:07:20and Radio 4 as well as Radio 5.
0:07:20 > 0:07:25And we do see our science output as a whole across the BBC,
0:07:25 > 0:07:28so while I take his comments on board -
0:07:28 > 0:07:31and I'll certainly pass them on to the production team -
0:07:31 > 0:07:35I think it was probably not Horizon's job in that particular case.
0:07:35 > 0:07:38OK, now, here's an interesting one from Tom Leeks.
0:07:59 > 0:08:03The worry is that you could use the same kit you use for the dinosaurs
0:08:03 > 0:08:07to enhance some baby chicks or something.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10The truth is, that's not necessary when it comes to the natural world.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13We've just spent four years
0:08:13 > 0:08:16in the field, in very difficult conditions, filming Frozen Planet.
0:08:16 > 0:08:19Although it's arduous, we don't need
0:08:19 > 0:08:22to resort to CG to bring the wonders of the natural world to life.
0:08:22 > 0:08:28So, you're not tempted to mix and match without telling the viewer?
0:08:28 > 0:08:31It's just not the way we approach filming the natural world.
0:08:31 > 0:08:36We think it's very important to bring it as truthfully
0:08:36 > 0:08:38to the audience as we possibly can,
0:08:38 > 0:08:41not least because the natural world IS spectacular.
0:08:41 > 0:08:43OK, right up your street,
0:08:43 > 0:08:45some brand-new science series have started this week.
0:08:45 > 0:08:48Starting with the much-advertised Frozen Planet.
0:08:51 > 0:08:54These are places that feed our imaginations.
0:08:54 > 0:08:58Places that seem to be borrowed from fairy tales.
0:09:36 > 0:09:38And on BBC Two, Dr Alice Roberts is back
0:09:38 > 0:09:41with her new series, The Origins Of Us.
0:09:44 > 0:09:46'As an anatomist, I'm fascinated by the way
0:09:46 > 0:09:49'our bodies have been sculpted
0:09:49 > 0:09:52'by our ancestors' struggle for survival.'
0:09:59 > 0:10:03'And what took us out of the forests, leaving other apes behind,
0:10:03 > 0:10:07'to spread out across the globe
0:10:07 > 0:10:10'was our search for food.'
0:10:10 > 0:10:12It's quite juicy.
0:10:28 > 0:10:31Let's talk about Horizon - a vital programme in your department.
0:10:31 > 0:10:34It's been criticised in the past a lot on Points Of View,
0:10:34 > 0:10:36for dumbing down,
0:10:36 > 0:10:39but we've got a viewer saying they really like it now. Have a look.
0:10:39 > 0:10:44I was absolutely blown away by the latest Horizon programmes,
0:10:44 > 0:10:48particularly by Seeing Stars.
0:10:49 > 0:10:54The programme was to do with how we are trying to understand
0:10:54 > 0:10:57the big questions of where are we from?
0:10:57 > 0:11:01The universe itself, how's it forming? Where did it come from?
0:11:01 > 0:11:04We have at our disposal tools that have never existed before
0:11:04 > 0:11:07in the history of mankind.
0:11:07 > 0:11:09We're the first ones that get to look at this.
0:11:09 > 0:11:13What was particularly good about that programme
0:11:13 > 0:11:17was the amount of sheer effort that had to be undertaken.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20That was absolutely stunning.
0:11:20 > 0:11:22So, some beautiful visuals.
0:11:22 > 0:11:25Surely Paul is about to tell us the content is dumbed down?
0:11:25 > 0:11:27It can't do everything.
0:11:27 > 0:11:33It can't show everything in a very small timeframe of an hour.
0:11:33 > 0:11:37What it does is give people a flavour of what's going on.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40'For us, it's quite hard to spot the odd one out.'
0:11:42 > 0:11:45OK, can you point one more time towards the different colour?
0:11:50 > 0:11:52Very good.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57'But for the Himba, it's easy to see the green which is different.'
0:11:57 > 0:12:00The programme to do with how we see colour
0:12:00 > 0:12:04and the experiments they did with that were absolutely fascinating.
0:12:04 > 0:12:07For us, it's quite clear the one that is different,
0:12:07 > 0:12:10but for them, they have to look very hard.
0:12:10 > 0:12:14It assumed that the people who were watching weren't dense.
0:12:16 > 0:12:19People are quite intelligent
0:12:19 > 0:12:21and therefore I felt Horizon
0:12:21 > 0:12:25had to strike a balance
0:12:25 > 0:12:29between not having too much detail and not making it dumbed down.
0:12:29 > 0:12:32For me, it got it right.
0:12:35 > 0:12:38Much praise for Horizon's latest reincarnation.
0:12:38 > 0:12:40Kim, how do you feel about that feedback?
0:12:40 > 0:12:43First of all, can I just say thank you to the viewer
0:12:43 > 0:12:47who kindly contributed those comments because after being pummelled
0:12:47 > 0:12:48by Jeremy Vine on Points Of View,
0:12:48 > 0:12:52it's always nice to get a positive response
0:12:52 > 0:12:55and for people to perhaps broadly feel that
0:12:55 > 0:12:57we're going in the right direction,
0:12:57 > 0:13:02- even if we're not always getting everything right.- What else can we expect from your department
0:13:02 > 0:13:04in the coming months?
0:13:04 > 0:13:06We're going to have an audacious experiment
0:13:06 > 0:13:11on BBC Four called Afterlife House, which is all about the cycle of life
0:13:11 > 0:13:16and decay. It's going to be quite bold viewing,
0:13:16 > 0:13:18but I hope that viewers will find it interesting.
0:13:18 > 0:13:22- And, of course, more from Brian Cox. - You're busy?
0:13:22 > 0:13:26- We certainly are.- That's all from us this week, back to normal next week.
0:13:26 > 0:13:29Do send us your feedback on whatever you are watching on the BBC.
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0:13:53 > 0:13:54Goodbye.
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