0:00:11 > 0:00:14Hello, and welcome to a special edition of Points Of View.
0:00:14 > 0:00:15Now, this week,
0:00:15 > 0:00:19I go head-to head with the BBC's Creative Director Alan Yentob.
0:00:19 > 0:00:23- What's your name?- Alan. - Alan what?- Yentob.
0:00:24 > 0:00:28If anyone is going to know what's what here at the BBC, it is
0:00:28 > 0:00:32this man because he's been working here for 40-something years.
0:00:32 > 0:00:36We just saw a Damien Hirst go for over £4 million.
0:00:36 > 0:00:41We just saw this Andy Warhol, the one over there, go for £2.1 million,
0:00:41 > 0:00:42the Hammer And Sickle.
0:00:42 > 0:00:46Alan Yentob has seen and survived it all.
0:00:46 > 0:00:48And I'm with Alan Yentob now -
0:00:48 > 0:00:52from trainee to Creative Director in 40...what is it, years?
0:00:52 > 0:00:54Oh, let's just move... pass over that.
0:00:54 > 0:00:58How has the BBC managed to lose so many friends and supporters recently?
0:00:58 > 0:01:03With the Savile crisis, the pay-off crisis, you name it, we've done it.
0:01:03 > 0:01:06Do you know, I don't know that it has lost so many friends
0:01:06 > 0:01:09- and supporters.- It feels like it. - Well, it may feel like it.
0:01:09 > 0:01:11I think, it's not that we haven't made mistakes,
0:01:11 > 0:01:14we have, but at the same time, you know,
0:01:14 > 0:01:15trust in the BBC has not...
0:01:15 > 0:01:18If you look back over the ten-year period,
0:01:18 > 0:01:20rather amazingly, trust in the BBC has grown.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22It hasn't diminished.
0:01:22 > 0:01:23It tanked a couple of years ago...
0:01:23 > 0:01:27No, it's absolutely true that when the Savile affair happened,
0:01:27 > 0:01:29trust dipped, but it grew again.
0:01:29 > 0:01:33Going back two years, going back to Savile and the trauma and losing
0:01:33 > 0:01:35a director-general and all that, that didn't somehow
0:01:35 > 0:01:38so traumatise the BBC that it lost its confidence?
0:01:38 > 0:01:41Absolutely not, and I have to say
0:01:41 > 0:01:44that Tony Hall is a brilliant leader of the BBC
0:01:44 > 0:01:49and I genuinely think that he's not complacent about the organisation.
0:01:49 > 0:01:53He knows there are issues, he knows it's a big organisation
0:01:53 > 0:01:56and a time of change, that things have to happen, we need to
0:01:56 > 0:01:59prove that we are efficient, to prove that we can be trusted.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02From the very beginning, the first day he arrived,
0:02:02 > 0:02:04when he addressed the issue of the...
0:02:04 > 0:02:08the question of the payments, redundancy payments...
0:02:08 > 0:02:10- That's another one, isn't it?- No, no.
0:02:10 > 0:02:12You put it like that, but actually what he did is to say
0:02:12 > 0:02:15"Look, we're going to put a limit on that."
0:02:15 > 0:02:18Now, you have to realise that the BBC is not unique in all this.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21If you look at the Civil Service, if you look at Government
0:02:21 > 0:02:25and elsewhere, the BBC has much the same arrangements as others,
0:02:25 > 0:02:27so I actually...
0:02:27 > 0:02:29But in many ways it is unique and the problem with that...
0:02:29 > 0:02:33You've mentioned the payoffs now, so the BBC says to the Government,
0:02:33 > 0:02:35"We need more money," and the Government says, "But you paid a guy
0:02:35 > 0:02:39"a million quid for leaving." I mean, we don't even know what he did for a job.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42No, come off it. I think that's just not fair.
0:02:42 > 0:02:47The BBC has had a 23% cut in its budget and the licence fee.
0:02:47 > 0:02:54Today, at £145.50 a year is less than it was
0:02:54 > 0:02:56comparatively 20 years ago at £147
0:02:56 > 0:02:58and yet there are many more services and many more demands.
0:02:58 > 0:03:02OK, and when you say we're struggling, people say
0:03:02 > 0:03:03"Well, you pay the top brass too much."
0:03:03 > 0:03:08They might even say, "You get £183,000 for your job as Creative Director?"
0:03:08 > 0:03:10I think, I don't want to...
0:03:10 > 0:03:13Whatever, and I think he's doing a good job, but at ITV,
0:03:13 > 0:03:18the head of ITV, I think, whatever, his arrangement was £7.1 million.
0:03:18 > 0:03:23Tony Hall gets what he was paid at the Opera House, which is
0:03:23 > 0:03:25a lot of money and all of us earn a lot of money, including you,
0:03:25 > 0:03:29Jeremy, so this is an industry where a lot of money is earned.
0:03:29 > 0:03:33But if you look at the BBC, first of all, in terms of talent payments,
0:03:33 > 0:03:39we have cut our talent payments by 13% in the last couple of years.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42The top management fees have come down by 30%.
0:03:43 > 0:03:4630% in the last few years. Now, we made...
0:03:46 > 0:03:48The payoffs were from many years ago
0:03:48 > 0:03:53and were part of the need for the BBC to cut 23% out of its budget.
0:03:53 > 0:03:56But I promise you that -
0:03:56 > 0:03:59and I think we shall have to make this argument to the public -
0:03:59 > 0:04:04the BBC, 30% executive pay has come down and 13% talent pay.
0:04:04 > 0:04:08OK, let me just ask you about BBC Three which is being shut.
0:04:08 > 0:04:10There's BBC Three, BBC Four.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13BBC Four is the high-end one, the arts one, the opera one.
0:04:13 > 0:04:16But the BBC's shutting the other one.
0:04:16 > 0:04:17Two weeks after that decision,
0:04:17 > 0:04:21the BBC Trust then says news is too elitist, it's too aloof.
0:04:21 > 0:04:23What is going on?
0:04:23 > 0:04:26Every service is valuable to a section of our audience.
0:04:26 > 0:04:30We've made a choice there, we've signalled that we're going,
0:04:30 > 0:04:33if you like, the Melvyn Bragg route, the Alan Yentob route.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36- We're going the opera route, aren't we?- No, no, no.
0:04:36 > 0:04:37Let me just explain it.
0:04:37 > 0:04:41First of all, I think actually in some ways,
0:04:41 > 0:04:44it's a rather bold decision
0:04:44 > 0:04:47because we can see very clearly that the younger audience
0:04:47 > 0:04:53are moving more and more away from traditional television
0:04:53 > 0:04:58and I think the opportunity - and this, the BBC has always done this, believe me -
0:04:58 > 0:05:00to actually innovate and experiment
0:05:00 > 0:05:04and see how we can deliver a service online, how we
0:05:04 > 0:05:09can transfer some of that audience to BBC One and BBC Two is
0:05:09 > 0:05:11actually a challenge worth making.
0:05:11 > 0:05:13I think it's a tough decision, the truth is,
0:05:13 > 0:05:14you asked me about BBC Four.
0:05:14 > 0:05:16I don't know whether or not -
0:05:16 > 0:05:19it all depends on the licence fee agreement in the future -
0:05:19 > 0:05:21whether or not we can sustain BBC Four.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24But remember, the BBC Four audience is an older audience, they do
0:05:24 > 0:05:26watch traditional television in that way.
0:05:26 > 0:05:28Well, that's what I want to ask you about
0:05:28 > 0:05:32because the fundamental issue here is whether the BBC
0:05:32 > 0:05:35when it feels threatened - we mentioned at the beginning -
0:05:35 > 0:05:39that it reverts to super-serving the top end of the audience,
0:05:39 > 0:05:42people like you, people like me, maybe. So, they get everything.
0:05:42 > 0:05:45They get Radio 3, they get Melvyn Bragg, they get Today,
0:05:45 > 0:05:47they get Newsnight, they get BBC Four.
0:05:47 > 0:05:49The rest of the audience, their stuff is shut down.
0:05:49 > 0:05:52No, it's rubbish. It's just not true, Jeremy, it's just not true.
0:05:52 > 0:05:57I mean, the decision has been taken about BBC Three,
0:05:57 > 0:06:03the budget of BBC Three will make far more impact online than it does on Three.
0:06:03 > 0:06:07In fact, if I'm honest, because we've had difficult decisions
0:06:07 > 0:06:10and budgets have been cut on all services and channels,
0:06:10 > 0:06:15we've had to prioritise BBC One because that is so critical,
0:06:15 > 0:06:19you know, BBC drama for instance, but the truth is that everyone is
0:06:19 > 0:06:24having to make savings and BBC Three is no exception.
0:06:24 > 0:06:26Just reassure people who watch
0:06:26 > 0:06:30that the BBC's not forgotten the power of Strictly
0:06:30 > 0:06:35and the power of the stuff that your average punter wants to see.
0:06:35 > 0:06:39OK, let me just say, I promise you we have not forgotten that.
0:06:39 > 0:06:42Strictly is growing and blooming.
0:06:42 > 0:06:44The Voice, which a lot of people complained about
0:06:44 > 0:06:47because we paid quite a lot of money for it
0:06:47 > 0:06:50but we've really committed to it and are trying to make it good.
0:06:50 > 0:06:54We DO believe in popular programming of high quality.
0:06:54 > 0:06:58We have invested significant sums of money in new drama.
0:06:58 > 0:07:03I mean, that's where we've prioritised on BBC One drama AND
0:07:03 > 0:07:06we've invested more money than we've ever invested in BBC Two drama.
0:07:06 > 0:07:11So, really, the idea that we're ignoring the audience,
0:07:11 > 0:07:16that...we're being elitist is just not true.
0:07:16 > 0:07:22And I really do believe that the BBC is absolutely committed
0:07:22 > 0:07:25and that's why we believe in the licence fee and the rest of it.
0:07:25 > 0:07:27We believe that the BBC is for everyone.
0:07:27 > 0:07:32Let me just ask you if I can about the comedy W1A.
0:07:32 > 0:07:36- It's not a comedy if you work in the BBC.- Oh, it is.
0:07:36 > 0:07:41It portrays a culture of wastefulness, inane managers,
0:07:41 > 0:07:46a culture of meetings, political cravenness. What part of any of that is amusing?
0:07:46 > 0:07:50Look, this is... First of all, it's a comedy, Jeremy, OK?
0:07:50 > 0:07:52Secondly, it's not just a portrait of the BBC,
0:07:52 > 0:07:57it's a portrait of office life at its worst, if you like, but also...
0:07:58 > 0:08:01- You're in it, aren't you? - I am in it.
0:08:04 > 0:08:08- Would you like to...- That was the moment.- That was the moment, OK.
0:08:08 > 0:08:11- Did you have to be persuaded or...? - Not particularly.
0:08:11 > 0:08:13It was quite fun, really, one way or another.
0:08:13 > 0:08:15It was either Kylie Minogue or Salman Rushdie.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18But doesn't it give people the impression that we're just
0:08:18 > 0:08:22- larking around the whole time? - Well, look, it's a comedy show.
0:08:22 > 0:08:25I mean, one thing I'd say about the BBC just generally speaking is
0:08:25 > 0:08:29that whatever it comes to, the BBC is not afraid to mock itself,
0:08:29 > 0:08:32to make fun of itself, and as you know, the news and current
0:08:32 > 0:08:38affairs division has little time for BBC management scruples.
0:08:38 > 0:08:41One of the great things about the BBC is that
0:08:41 > 0:08:44I think that the BBC interrogates the BBC and what it does
0:08:44 > 0:08:48and this is a comedy and some of the bits are a little too true
0:08:48 > 0:08:51and some of the things are just comic.
0:08:51 > 0:08:54I think the British public is rather pleased that the BBC
0:08:54 > 0:08:55is prepared to mock itself.
0:08:55 > 0:08:57Alan Yentob, thank you very much indeed.
0:08:57 > 0:09:01And now a look at some of the other programmes you've been watching, maybe even enjoying this week.
0:09:04 > 0:09:07The start of a new series, Quirke, on BBC One -
0:09:07 > 0:09:10the drama based on the books by Benjamin Black
0:09:10 > 0:09:13about a pathologist in 1950s Dublin.
0:09:13 > 0:09:17- What are you doing here? - Oh, no, the other way around, Mal.
0:09:17 > 0:09:21This is my office. I'm pathology, you're obstetrics.
0:09:23 > 0:09:27What are YOU doing down here among the dead men?
0:09:27 > 0:09:30Lots of you getting in touch to air your frustrations over not
0:09:30 > 0:09:34being able to understand parts of the dialogue.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37It's late, Quirke, you should go home.
0:09:37 > 0:09:40I settled down on Sunday evening
0:09:40 > 0:09:44to watch Quirke, with a lot of anticipation.
0:09:44 > 0:09:47I could've enjoyed it, but how disappointing.
0:09:47 > 0:09:52As with Jamaica Inn, poor sound quality, bad lighting
0:09:52 > 0:09:55and over-dramatic music spoilt it for me.
0:09:56 > 0:10:00Why can't the BBC trust a good story to do its own work any more?
0:10:07 > 0:10:09What is the point of taking the time,
0:10:09 > 0:10:10effort and money to make such
0:10:10 > 0:10:12a production and then let
0:10:12 > 0:10:15a backroom IT geek ruin it?
0:10:15 > 0:10:18Surely good drama depends on a good story and good acting?
0:10:18 > 0:10:21But if the story is rubbish then no amount of visual effects will
0:10:21 > 0:10:22make it any better.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25Last weekend, BBC Two went to town
0:10:25 > 0:10:28to celebrate 50 years of comedy on the channel.
0:10:28 > 0:10:32Reunited for a one-off special, the cast of Goodness Gracious Me
0:10:32 > 0:10:34looking older, but were they still as funny?
0:10:34 > 0:10:38India's most popular newspaper is officially...
0:10:38 > 0:10:39The Delhi Mail.
0:10:39 > 0:10:43Goodness Gracious Me was THE show for many British Asians like me
0:10:43 > 0:10:44whilst growing up,
0:10:44 > 0:10:48so I was very excited by the prospect of the show's return.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51Thankfully, despite being away from our screens for over a decade,
0:10:51 > 0:10:53the team haven't lost their touch.
0:10:53 > 0:10:57This was an enjoyable mix of interesting new characters
0:10:57 > 0:11:01and heart-warming old ones. I really enjoyed the Delhi Mail sketch.
0:11:01 > 0:11:03I only wish there were more to come!
0:11:03 > 0:11:07I look down on HIM because I was born in Britain. I am British.
0:11:09 > 0:11:12I look up to HIM because he is British.
0:11:12 > 0:11:16But I look down on HIM because he's an immigrant.
0:11:16 > 0:11:18I am naturalised.
0:11:21 > 0:11:22You want taxi?
0:11:23 > 0:11:26The cast of Goodness Gracious Me leaving some of you
0:11:26 > 0:11:30wishing for a more permanent return of this series.
0:11:32 > 0:11:37The new channel has a name. All it needs now is someone to run it.
0:11:37 > 0:11:43A king or queen, a tsar, a fuhrer, a fat controller.
0:11:45 > 0:11:47Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse gave us
0:11:47 > 0:11:50their unique biography of the channel.
0:11:50 > 0:11:55..and Porky Peacock knew exactly what Porky Peacock wanted.
0:11:55 > 0:11:59Long documentaries about the First World War that went on for weeks
0:11:59 > 0:12:02and weeks and weeks...
0:12:02 > 0:12:04Plenty of poking fun at Auntie Beeb here.
0:12:24 > 0:12:27Election fever swept the BBC this week,
0:12:27 > 0:12:30but did the coverage get the viewers' vote?
0:12:30 > 0:12:34The BBC's coverage of the EU election campaign has been
0:12:34 > 0:12:36the most biased pile of garbage I have ever had
0:12:36 > 0:12:39the displeasure to witness.
0:12:39 > 0:12:40Programme after programme,
0:12:40 > 0:12:43reporter after reporter have been biased against UKIP.
0:12:44 > 0:12:47In my opinion, heads should roll for this,
0:12:47 > 0:12:51and if not, I for one will not be renewing my licence fee.
0:12:51 > 0:12:54I have no desire to listen to a load of left-wing propaganda.
0:13:09 > 0:13:10Quite a selection there.
0:13:10 > 0:13:13Thank you for your views. That is it from us for this week.
0:13:13 > 0:13:17We'll do it again next Sunday. Lots of ways, as always, to get in touch.
0:13:17 > 0:13:19Here they are. You can write to us...
0:13:29 > 0:13:30You can also call us,
0:13:30 > 0:13:33numbers charged as a local rate, call from any landline.
0:13:37 > 0:13:39Or join the message boarders! Always lively there.
0:13:43 > 0:13:45And get us on Twitter too.
0:13:47 > 0:13:49Thanks very much indeed for watching
0:13:49 > 0:13:51and we'll see you next week. Goodbye.