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0:00:21 > 0:00:23- Some people ask who I am.
0:00:23 > 0:00:27- Ivor Davies? Or Ifor Davies. - Or even Ifor Dafis!
0:00:31 > 0:00:35- The problem is worse than that. - I- don't know who I am.
0:00:35 > 0:00:37- I'm hundreds of people.
0:00:43 > 0:00:49- When I write in Welsh, I'm Ifor. - When I write in English, I'm Ivor.
0:00:52 > 0:00:56- The problem is, the English say - "Iffor", and I can't stand that.
0:00:58 > 0:01:02- There are hundreds of different - personalities within me...
0:01:02 > 0:01:04- ..within us all, without names.
0:01:07 > 0:01:09- But I know very well where I'm from.
0:01:10 > 0:01:12- I was brought up in Penarth.
0:01:12 > 0:01:16- After some years - in Switzerland and Scotland...
0:01:16 > 0:01:20- ..I returned to Penarth, - where I shall remain.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24- Penarth was a small, - undistinguished village...
0:01:25 > 0:01:28- ..before the Marquess of Bute - opened the docks in 1865.
0:01:28 > 0:01:32- South Wales coal was exported - to the four corners of the world.
0:01:33 > 0:01:36- As in the case of Cardiff - and Barry...
0:01:36 > 0:01:40- ..it was the sweat and sacrifice of - the Valleys that made Penarth rich.
0:01:41 > 0:01:45- My parents grew up in Penarth, - but their roots were in the West.
0:01:46 > 0:01:50- My mother's family hailed from - Llwynpiod near Peniel, Carmarthen.
0:01:51 > 0:01:55- She and her sisters were born into - a family of carpenters and farmers.
0:01:56 > 0:02:00- When she was 20, my grandmother, who - spoke only Welsh, moved to Penarth.
0:02:00 > 0:02:03- She married Ivor Phillips, - a butcher.
0:02:04 > 0:02:07- They met when he was buying - cattle in Carmarthenshire.
0:02:08 > 0:02:12- In 1906, they had a daughter, - Gwenllian, my mother.
0:02:12 > 0:02:16- In the course of time, my mother - met my father, David Howell Davies.
0:02:17 > 0:02:21- He had just returned from Paris, - where he worked in a bank.
0:02:22 > 0:02:26- His father, a former - Scotland Yard detective...
0:02:26 > 0:02:29- ..and fingerprint expert, - came from Cardiganshire.
0:02:32 > 0:02:35- My father, who is 92, - speaks a little Welsh.
0:02:36 > 0:02:38- But we converse in English.
0:02:39 > 0:02:44- Thanks to my mother and grandmother, - I grew up speaking Welsh.
0:02:46 > 0:02:50- Penarth was an anglicised town, - with no Welsh schools then.
0:02:52 > 0:02:56- Without their influence, I doubt - if I'd have retained my Welsh.
0:03:00 > 0:03:04- Though I'm very proud of my Welsh, - I realised at a young age...
0:03:04 > 0:03:08- ..that I was articulate in a medium - that didn't depend on words.
0:03:11 > 0:03:13- I feel I've always been an artist.
0:03:13 > 0:03:17- Even at the tender age - of three, I drew.
0:03:19 > 0:03:23- It was an activity - I took for granted.
0:03:44 > 0:03:49- Most people can draw, but they stop - once they go to school.
0:03:50 > 0:03:54- Art isn't considered - a serious school subject.
0:03:54 > 0:03:59- But that's what influenced me most - - artists.
0:04:00 > 0:04:04- Both my grandfathers had enormous - oil paintings which I admired.
0:04:05 > 0:04:09- They were marvellous. - I thought everyone had paintings.
0:04:11 > 0:04:13- When I was 13, I began to paint...
0:04:14 > 0:04:19- ..unusual subjects - for a boy of that age.
0:04:20 > 0:04:22- Paintings of hell.
0:04:23 > 0:04:27- Horrific images I'd seen - in the old family Bible.
0:04:28 > 0:04:32- For some reason, I was also painting - scenes from the Mabinogion.
0:04:33 > 0:04:37- I don't know how I discovered - these subject matters.
0:04:37 > 0:04:40- The story of Gwydion and the swine.
0:04:40 > 0:04:44- Beginning to paint in oils - was a great venture.
0:04:45 > 0:04:49- Buying the small tubes, - and squeezing them.
0:04:50 > 0:04:52- I started to paint on canvas...
0:04:53 > 0:04:57- ..just like the paintings - I'd seen at both my grandfathers'.
0:04:57 > 0:04:59- That was real painting.
0:05:02 > 0:05:06- My first oil painting, at the - age of thirteen or thereabouts...
0:05:06 > 0:05:10- ..was of a boy fishing from a tree. - A boy probably quite like me.
0:05:11 > 0:05:15- When I was fourteen, I made another - oil painting of my grandfather.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19- He had a very interesting head.
0:05:19 > 0:05:23- He had large, black eyes. - His was hair beginning to turn grey.
0:05:24 > 0:05:26- A face full of character.
0:05:28 > 0:05:32- A short time later, as I approached - my fifteenth birthday...
0:05:33 > 0:05:37- ..I began to take an interest - in my surroundings.
0:05:37 > 0:05:41- In the Penarth of my youth, the sea - and ships were important elements.
0:05:42 > 0:05:45- At one time, - I wanted to be a sailor.
0:05:46 > 0:05:49- But I settled for - painting ships and sailors.
0:06:32 > 0:06:36- This is how - I saw myself at the time.
0:06:37 > 0:06:41- From the age of fifteen, I wanted - to chronicle the people...
0:06:41 > 0:06:45- ..and things I saw around me, - in Penarth and Cardiff.
0:06:46 > 0:06:50- In the past, artists recorded - monarchs and dignitaries.
0:06:52 > 0:06:56- But my interest lay - in ordinary people and situations.
0:06:58 > 0:07:01- Even things as ordinary - as rubbish bins.
0:07:06 > 0:07:10- I was years ahead - of the '50s kitchen sink school...
0:07:12 > 0:07:14- ..like Jack Smith and Bratby.
0:07:17 > 0:07:22- It was perhaps inevitable - that I went to chapel less often.
0:07:23 > 0:07:28- Up to that point, it had greatly - influenced my family and myself.
0:07:28 > 0:07:32- Much of Penarth Welsh society - revolved around chapels...
0:07:32 > 0:07:34- ..socially and spiritually.
0:07:35 > 0:07:39- I was disappointed in the education - I received in Penarth.
0:07:39 > 0:07:43- Painting or art were not - 'A' level subjects at school.
0:07:43 > 0:07:45- I enjoyed Welsh and French...
0:07:46 > 0:07:51- ..but I yearned for my great love, - my vocation - painting.
0:07:54 > 0:07:58- We had very little art at school. - No history of art.
0:07:58 > 0:08:02- When I saw art students - around Cardiff...
0:08:02 > 0:08:06- ..I thought there was something - dramatic and beautiful about them.
0:08:06 > 0:08:10- They were rather bohemian. - That's what I wanted to be!
0:08:11 > 0:08:15- My parents supported - my wish to be an artist.
0:08:15 > 0:08:19- But my father hoped I'd train - as a teacher to earn a living.
0:08:19 > 0:08:21- So that's what I did.
0:08:24 > 0:08:27- I came here as a sixteen-year--old, - in September 1952.
0:08:29 > 0:08:33- For the first two years, the basic - skills were instilled in me.
0:08:34 > 0:08:36- For example, perspective.
0:08:36 > 0:08:40- Art college education was classical - and conservative at that time.
0:08:42 > 0:08:45- Nevertheless, I was very fond - of the college.
0:08:45 > 0:08:48- The time I spent as a student - was invaluable.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53- This is when I fell - in love with sculpture.
0:08:53 > 0:08:56- I even considered - a career as a sculptor.
0:08:57 > 0:09:00- But paint and canvas - won the day in the end.
0:09:07 > 0:09:11- In 1956, I went to Swansea, - to qualify as a teacher.
0:09:12 > 0:09:17- After the teacher - training course in Swansea...
0:09:18 > 0:09:22- ..I tried to avoid becoming - a teacher for about thirteen weeks.
0:09:22 > 0:09:25- I just painted. A very happy time.
0:09:26 > 0:09:31- But that couldn't last. I found a - job in an Ealing school in London.
0:09:32 > 0:09:37- Those 18 months were the only time - I've lived and worked in England.
0:09:38 > 0:09:40- I saw all the exhibitions...
0:09:41 > 0:09:45- ..many interesting styles - from Europe and America.
0:09:46 > 0:09:50- I didn't like the school much, - so I went to Switzerland.
0:09:52 > 0:09:56- I taught English to youngsters - at the university in Lausanne...
0:09:56 > 0:09:59- ..and at the 'gymnase', - as they're called.
0:10:02 > 0:10:05- From Central Europe, you could travel...
0:10:06 > 0:10:10- ..to Italy, Germany, everywhere, - to see the marvels of the ages.
0:10:15 > 0:10:19- Switzerland and the continent - helped me mature.
0:10:22 > 0:10:28- Not only in the way I perceived - Renaissance works in Italy...
0:10:29 > 0:10:32- ..but also the way - I viewed the houses...
0:10:32 > 0:10:36- ..built from the same materials - that blended with the areas' rocks.
0:10:37 > 0:10:41- I tried to create pictures - out of gesso plaster.
0:10:46 > 0:10:50- I wasn't interested in painting - in the American style...
0:10:51 > 0:10:53- ..like abstract expressionism.
0:10:53 > 0:10:57- I was more interested - in the way Europeans painted...
0:10:58 > 0:11:01- ..especially the Catalans - and the Italians...
0:11:01 > 0:11:06- ..with different layers of colour, - or walls, or cement.
0:11:07 > 0:11:10- They expressed very interesting emotions.
0:11:12 > 0:11:16- After Switzerland, I returned - for a short while to Wales.
0:11:16 > 0:11:19- In 1963, I was off again - to Edinburgh.
0:11:20 > 0:11:23- The date is significant. This was the sixties.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27- An experimental time - a revolutionary time.
0:11:28 > 0:11:32- A time when you could "do your - own thing", as they said.
0:11:33 > 0:11:35- And that's what I did! And how!
0:11:44 > 0:11:46-
0:11:52 > 0:11:56- The camera shakes. There are - scratches on the celluloid.
0:11:57 > 0:12:02- Nevertheless, these old films record - some of the experimental art...
0:12:02 > 0:12:06- ..with which I was involved - nearly forty years ago.
0:12:07 > 0:12:11- At the heart of it all was - the concept of creating something...
0:12:12 > 0:12:14- ..then destroying it.
0:12:14 > 0:12:17- In the sixties, - I used destruction creatively.
0:12:17 > 0:12:19- A few others were doing this.
0:12:20 > 0:12:25- But I was the first in Britain - to use explosives in art.
0:12:25 > 0:12:30- Why not use explosives to show - what was happening in the world?
0:12:32 > 0:12:34- The explosions of war, for example.
0:12:37 > 0:12:41- I realise many people believe that works of art...
0:12:41 > 0:12:44- ..should be permanent and lasting.
0:12:45 > 0:12:47- That isn't necessarily true.
0:12:49 > 0:12:53- People have been creating things, - and destroying them over the ages.
0:12:54 > 0:12:59- When there's a feast in the orient, - they work on very detailed models...
0:13:00 > 0:13:01- ..then destroy them.
0:13:02 > 0:13:04- Fireworks destroy themselves.
0:13:05 > 0:13:09- There's nothing strange - in destroying art.
0:13:09 > 0:13:13- The art is in the way - it is destroyed, after all.
0:13:18 > 0:13:22- I was trying to create original work - which belonged to its period.
0:13:22 > 0:13:24- The spirit of the age, 'Zeitgeist'.
0:13:25 > 0:13:29- For me, exploding artwork - was challenging.
0:13:29 > 0:13:32- That was the spirit of those days.
0:13:38 > 0:13:40- No-one in the art colleges did that.
0:13:41 > 0:13:44- You could get expelled for that.
0:13:45 > 0:13:48- But I'm afraid - that's what the Academy does now.
0:13:49 > 0:13:51- So I don't do it any more.
0:13:51 > 0:13:55- But there's always room for - explosive and fiery personalities...
0:13:55 > 0:13:59- ..in my work. This is Dr William - Price from Llantrisant.
0:14:00 > 0:14:04- He burnt the body of his son, - Iesu Grist (Jesus Christ), in 1884.
0:14:04 > 0:14:08- He was responsible for legalising - cremation in Britain.
0:14:15 > 0:14:20- After 15 years in Scotland, in 1978 - I returned to Wales, to Newport.
0:14:22 > 0:14:26- I lectured at the Gwent College - of Further Education for 10 years.
0:14:27 > 0:14:31- After that, I concentrated - on painting and writing.
0:14:32 > 0:14:36- But, of course, - I have painted all my life.
0:16:15 > 0:16:19- Something which saddens - me greatly is the fact...
0:16:19 > 0:16:22- ..that Wales has had to copy England.
0:16:23 > 0:16:28- The status of the visual arts - has always been low in Britain.
0:16:30 > 0:16:35- When you see exhibitions - from France, Italy or Germany...
0:16:37 > 0:16:41- ..you can see that very little - has happened in Britain...
0:16:42 > 0:16:45- ..especially since - the time of Cromwell.
0:16:45 > 0:16:50- The English are fond of functional - work, like William Morris...
0:16:51 > 0:16:56- ..rather than visual work which is - deemed 'fancy' to the Briton's eye.
0:16:58 > 0:17:03- Schools are rejecting music - and art. They're of no use.
0:17:05 > 0:17:10- Wales has always had to follow - England, and Britain.
0:17:11 > 0:17:14- I hope things will change.
0:17:15 > 0:17:20- Now, many Welsh people stay in Wales - to paint, and do interesting work.
0:17:23 > 0:17:27- The National Eisteddfod has been - an excellent patron...
0:17:27 > 0:17:30- ..for visual arts in recent years.
0:17:30 > 0:17:32- It's almost too professional now.
0:17:33 > 0:17:37- It's like a gallery in a city. - But I'm not complaining!
0:17:40 > 0:17:43- I'd like to see - more traditional craft.
0:17:43 > 0:17:47- I'd also like to see more amateur - work exhibited there...
0:17:47 > 0:17:51- ..as well as the excellent - professional artists.
0:17:52 > 0:17:55- There are some - exceptional amateurs...
0:17:56 > 0:18:03- ..natural painters, - who haven't studied art.
0:18:03 > 0:18:06- ..natural painters, - who haven't studied art. - - The people who ask - 'What is Welsh art?'...
0:18:08 > 0:18:12- ..are usually English, - and opposed to the concept.
0:18:12 > 0:18:16- I reply that it's everything we do. All I paint is Welsh art
0:18:18 > 0:18:21- Everything artists - in Wales paint is Welsh art.
0:18:23 > 0:18:27- We are too close to see clearly - if there's a Welsh perspective.
0:18:29 > 0:18:33- Art does not have one perspective. - That wouldn't be interesting.
0:18:33 > 0:18:35- There are hundreds of perspectives.
0:18:35 > 0:18:40- A different style, in different - places, and different moments.
0:18:49 > 0:18:53- You could say my work is underground art. It's subversive.
0:18:55 > 0:18:57- It isn't comforting.
0:18:57 > 0:19:01- Uncomfortable about contemporary - Wales and the state of the language.
0:19:03 > 0:19:07- I first realised this when I was - in Scotland, back in the '60s.
0:19:07 > 0:19:11- Until then, I didn't realise - there was a problem.
0:19:13 > 0:19:17- Back in Wales, I met Paul Davies - and the 'Beca' movement.
0:19:17 > 0:19:20- Paul and his brother Peter - were the movement.
0:19:20 > 0:19:22- I asked if I could join.
0:19:23 > 0:19:25- We didn't burn down tollgates.
0:19:26 > 0:19:32- It was envy and hatred - of Welsh traditions...
0:19:33 > 0:19:36- ..and the Welsh language - that we burnt.
0:19:39 > 0:19:42- We saw the way Welsh institutions...
0:19:42 > 0:19:46- ..were destroyed, - usually by people from England...
0:19:47 > 0:19:49- ..buying holiday homes and so forth.
0:19:49 > 0:19:52- The subject of heroism - is interesting.
0:19:53 > 0:19:56- In front of the Palace of Westminster...
0:19:56 > 0:20:01- ..one can see monuments - to Winston Churchill...
0:20:02 > 0:20:04- ..and Oliver Cromwell.
0:20:06 > 0:20:08- More Welsh heroes...
0:20:08 > 0:20:12- ..should be celebrated, - as well as the obvious ones.
0:20:13 > 0:20:16- I see John Jenkins, - Sion Aubrey Roberts...
0:20:16 > 0:20:20- ..and the Bombing School Arsonists - as great heroes.
0:20:20 > 0:20:24- They have been imprisoned - for their belief in Wales.
0:20:25 > 0:20:29- Most of these have no monument.
0:20:32 > 0:20:34- They are part of Welsh history...
0:20:35 > 0:20:38- ..as well as people - like Owain Glyndwr.
0:20:39 > 0:20:43- Then there are totally different - people, like Iolo Morgannwg.
0:20:43 > 0:20:47- I don't think there's a monument - to Iolo Morgannwg anywhere.
0:20:49 > 0:20:53- These people - form a part of our heritage.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58- A part of our - nation's memory, you might say.
0:20:58 > 0:21:03- They deserve some sort of - remembrance, pictorially at least.
0:21:05 > 0:21:07- All art is political.
0:21:10 > 0:21:14- Everything in art is political, in one way or another.
0:21:14 > 0:21:16- Art has political connotations.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19- We can't help but be political.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24- When we paint or write, - or do anything in the arts...
0:21:26 > 0:21:28- ..we think, "What should I do?"
0:21:29 > 0:21:33- "I'll avoid this, - someone else has already done it."
0:21:34 > 0:21:38- "I can't do that, - it will be censored."
0:21:38 > 0:21:43- But if your choice is to do work - that is censored, full marks to you.
0:21:45 > 0:21:49- I'd like to paint - every picture differently.
0:21:51 > 0:21:53- In sequence, or at the same time.
0:21:53 > 0:21:58- I work on about - 50 paintings at one time.
0:21:58 > 0:22:00- I'd like them all to be different.
0:22:01 > 0:22:05- After doing one, there's no point - repeating the message.
0:22:05 > 0:22:07- Do another, with a new message.
0:22:10 > 0:22:12- Style is nothing. What is style?
0:22:13 > 0:22:17- Picasso's paintings are all similar, - although everyone says they differ.
0:22:18 > 0:22:21- In a way, my pictures - resemble each other.
0:22:21 > 0:22:25- If you knew them, - you'd see the resemblance.
0:22:25 > 0:22:28- But you can't escape - from your own soul...
0:22:29 > 0:22:33- ..however much you want to do - something totally new and different.
0:23:32 > 0:23:36- I can't recall if - I've ever painted in order to sell.
0:23:37 > 0:23:41- I'm trying to be truthful. - It's difficult to remember.
0:23:42 > 0:23:46- If I painted to sell, - no-one would buy the work.
0:23:48 > 0:23:52- I wouldn't be painting - from my heart, or from my soul.
0:23:53 > 0:23:57- When you paint - from your own thoughts...
0:23:57 > 0:24:01- ..people are interested in it. - People aren't stupid.
0:24:01 > 0:24:05- Everyone is the same in a way, - with similar feelings.
0:24:05 > 0:24:09- When they see their own thoughts - expressed on canvas...
0:24:10 > 0:24:12- ..they react positively.
0:24:37 > 0:24:39- S4C Subtitles by:- GWEAD