0:00:02 > 0:00:03BBC Four Collections -
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0:00:06 > 0:00:07For this Collection,
0:00:07 > 0:00:08Sir Michael Parkinson
0:00:08 > 0:00:10has selected BBC interviews
0:00:10 > 0:00:12with influential figures
0:00:12 > 0:00:13of the 20th century.
0:00:13 > 0:00:15More programmes on this theme
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0:00:27 > 0:00:28FEMALE VOICEOVER: 'Press Conference,
0:00:28 > 0:00:31'a series in which personalities who make the news
0:00:31 > 0:00:36'answer impromptu questions from men who write the news.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39'The questioners tonight are John Beavan of The Manchester Guardian,
0:00:39 > 0:00:42'Elizabeth Frank of the News Chronicle,
0:00:42 > 0:00:44'Rene McColl of the Daily Express
0:00:44 > 0:00:48'and William Hardcastle of the Daily Mail, who begins the programme.'
0:00:52 > 0:00:55Good evening. It's very good of Orson Welles to have come along,
0:00:55 > 0:00:59all the way from Paris, in this weather, to be with us tonight.
0:00:59 > 0:01:02He really needs very little introduction from me, I'm sure.
0:01:02 > 0:01:05There he is, 6'3" tall,
0:01:05 > 0:01:0839 years old, but still, I feel, for most of us,
0:01:08 > 0:01:11the boy wonder of show business.
0:01:11 > 0:01:13You pays your money and you takes your choice.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16Orson Welles the actor - Citizen Kane, Harry Lime.
0:01:16 > 0:01:19Orson Welles the producer, the director,
0:01:19 > 0:01:23the man who made the film of Macbeth in 21 days, I think,
0:01:23 > 0:01:26the man who went all the way to Haiti in the Caribbean
0:01:26 > 0:01:29and produced King Lear with an all-Negro cast.
0:01:29 > 0:01:31Long before flying saucers were ever heard of,
0:01:31 > 0:01:33Orson Welles did a broadcast
0:01:33 > 0:01:36that frightened the daylights out of the whole population of New York,
0:01:36 > 0:01:40with a too-realistic version of an invasion from Mars.
0:01:40 > 0:01:44Yes, he's a man of parts, a man who, at the age of 16,
0:01:44 > 0:01:47starred at the Abbey Theatre in Dublin.
0:01:47 > 0:01:51Last year, I believe, he wrote a ballet.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54He used to write his own newspaper column.
0:01:54 > 0:01:58He, I believe, now, is writing a book on international organisations.
0:01:58 > 0:02:00He has even been a magician,
0:02:00 > 0:02:05and, at that time, as I recall, he sawed Marlene Dietrich in half.
0:02:05 > 0:02:09A man of parts, a man of many parts, and he's come along tonight
0:02:09 > 0:02:12for us to throw any questions we like at him,
0:02:12 > 0:02:18so I'll start and ask him specially, in view of the fact, Orson Welles,
0:02:18 > 0:02:23that this is, I think, virtually your first appearance on television,
0:02:23 > 0:02:26why have you, as it were, avoided television
0:02:26 > 0:02:29when in fact you've seized every other medium?
0:02:29 > 0:02:31Doesn't television attract you?
0:02:31 > 0:02:33Oh, enormously, Mr Hardcastle.
0:02:33 > 0:02:36I suppose it's just a question of terror.
0:02:37 > 0:02:39Simply frightened of television.
0:02:39 > 0:02:41JOHN BEAVAN: Can't you think of television as an art form?
0:02:41 > 0:02:44Can it ever be really good, like the cinema?
0:02:44 > 0:02:46Oh, I think so. I think it is.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48I think it is already very good.
0:02:48 > 0:02:52I think it's certainly as interesting as the cinema is today.
0:02:52 > 0:02:54How's it going to develop, do you think?
0:02:54 > 0:02:56Well...
0:02:56 > 0:02:59I think that we're going to find new forms in television.
0:02:59 > 0:03:05I think we're going to return to old forms, too, to the storyteller.
0:03:05 > 0:03:08I do feel that the television is going up a blind alley
0:03:08 > 0:03:11when it makes imitation movies.
0:03:11 > 0:03:14Mr Welles, talking of terror, I always think perhaps the highlight
0:03:14 > 0:03:16of your very amusing and exciting life
0:03:16 > 0:03:18was that time you really frightened
0:03:18 > 0:03:20half of the United States out of their wits,
0:03:20 > 0:03:23back there in the 1930s with your tremendous broadcast,
0:03:23 > 0:03:26pretending Mars was invading the world.
0:03:26 > 0:03:28What do you mean "pretending", Mr McColl, really?
0:03:28 > 0:03:31Haven't you heard about the flying saucers?
0:03:31 > 0:03:32But indeed! Yes, indeed.
0:03:32 > 0:03:34Do you look back on that with a certain amount of pleasure?
0:03:34 > 0:03:37Well, I look back on it with a certain amount of wonder,
0:03:37 > 0:03:40because we never imagined, when we did the show,
0:03:40 > 0:03:45that as many people would be as excited as they were.
0:03:45 > 0:03:48We thought a few people on the lunatic fringe
0:03:48 > 0:03:53might be vaguely disturbed by these rumours which we broadcast.
0:03:53 > 0:03:54But it turned out to be...
0:03:54 > 0:03:55More people on the fringe than you thought?
0:03:55 > 0:03:58Well, I don't think so. I don't think it was.
0:03:58 > 0:04:03I think, er... I think we underrated the, er...
0:04:03 > 0:04:05the prestige of radio at that moment.
0:04:05 > 0:04:08Anything that was said on the radio was automatically true.
0:04:08 > 0:04:10After that, nobody ever believed anything on the radio.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13And on Pearl Harbor, the day of Pearl Harbor in America,
0:04:13 > 0:04:16I was doing a broadcast, which was interrupted
0:04:16 > 0:04:19with the announcement that Pearl Harbor had been attached.
0:04:19 > 0:04:21Of course, everybody in America said,
0:04:21 > 0:04:22"It's rather bad taste to do it again."
0:04:22 > 0:04:26Was it that particular aspect of reality
0:04:26 > 0:04:29that terrifies you in appearing in television?
0:04:29 > 0:04:32Is it because, you feel, of its immediate effect?
0:04:32 > 0:04:35Partly that, and partly not knowing it.
0:04:35 > 0:04:39You know, it's a medium that I don't know except as a viewer.
0:04:39 > 0:04:44I did King Lear in New York last year and that was my first experience,
0:04:44 > 0:04:48but I was well-protected with a beard
0:04:48 > 0:04:53and sustained by some pretty wonderful blank verse.
0:04:53 > 0:04:56What kind of things do you like best as a viewer? Do you like plays
0:04:56 > 0:04:59- or these conversation pieces? - I like conversations,
0:04:59 > 0:05:01documentaries, sport events.
0:05:01 > 0:05:04I like real things and stories and conversations,
0:05:04 > 0:05:05rather than plays.
0:05:05 > 0:05:08I don't say that plays haven't a place,
0:05:08 > 0:05:11but I do feel that the further they move from films
0:05:11 > 0:05:14and the closer they come to the needs of this medium,
0:05:14 > 0:05:16the more interesting they are.
0:05:16 > 0:05:20But, Mr Welles, once you were quoted as saying that you'd do Hamlet
0:05:20 > 0:05:24hanging from a trapeze if it got publicity for what you were doing.
0:05:24 > 0:05:26Now, here is television, waiting.
0:05:26 > 0:05:28- Was it in fact... - May I... May I
0:05:28 > 0:05:30correct that quotation, Mr Hardcastle?
0:05:30 > 0:05:35I said simply that I thought there was a...
0:05:35 > 0:05:39That there were 1,000 ways of doing any great classic
0:05:39 > 0:05:42and I was defending myself against some interpretation
0:05:42 > 0:05:44of some classic which we'd produced
0:05:44 > 0:05:47and I said that if it would be effective,
0:05:47 > 0:05:49I would certainly do Hamlet on a trapeze...
0:05:49 > 0:05:50Arising out of that, Mr Welles, I saw...
0:05:50 > 0:05:53- ..not for publicity. - that film you made of Macbeth.
0:05:53 > 0:05:57As a Scot, I was immensely interested by it.
0:05:57 > 0:06:01It had some of the weirdest kind of trappings I've ever seen in my life.
0:06:01 > 0:06:07Now, could you tell me, why did you select those costumes?
0:06:07 > 0:06:08Why did you film it that particular way?
0:06:08 > 0:06:10Was it to try and get a bang out of it?
0:06:10 > 0:06:12Well, everyone has asked me that
0:06:12 > 0:06:17and I don't know what people wore in Scotland in the 11th century
0:06:17 > 0:06:20that was so much more civilised than that.
0:06:20 > 0:06:22In fact, they seem to have been barefoot
0:06:22 > 0:06:25when they went to battle occasionally, in the Highlands...
0:06:25 > 0:06:26- Please! - ..and stripped to the waist.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28You're speaking of a country I love.
0:06:28 > 0:06:29Yes. A country I love too.
0:06:29 > 0:06:35But I believe that the costumes were on the savage side, historically,
0:06:35 > 0:06:39and that the tradition of dignified plaids
0:06:39 > 0:06:42and all the rest of it dates with the '80s
0:06:42 > 0:06:45and the Victorian, pictorial,
0:06:45 > 0:06:49actor-manager-star theatre in London.
0:06:49 > 0:06:52I don't think we were as wrong as that. I don't say we were right.
0:06:52 > 0:06:53But do you think that Macbeth
0:06:53 > 0:06:56should be played with a Scottish accent, for example?
0:06:56 > 0:06:59I think that these plays are so great that they can stand up,
0:06:59 > 0:07:03no matter how badly we do them and how strangely we approach them.
0:07:03 > 0:07:04How about that film you made of Othello?
0:07:04 > 0:07:06I don't think we've had an opportunity to see it yet.
0:07:06 > 0:07:09You're going to in...this winter.
0:07:09 > 0:07:11- It's coming up, then? - Before the spring, yes.
0:07:11 > 0:07:13What's been holding it up so far?
0:07:13 > 0:07:16Well, holding it up has been the American release.
0:07:16 > 0:07:20And, frankly, I was rather anxious to have it in America
0:07:20 > 0:07:22before it was in England,
0:07:22 > 0:07:24because I'm terrified of what you'll think of it!
0:07:24 > 0:07:27JOHN BEAVAN: What have the critics said about it in America?
0:07:27 > 0:07:28Have they attacked it?
0:07:28 > 0:07:31They haven't seen it yet. I'm waiting for it to open in America
0:07:31 > 0:07:32before I sneak...
0:07:32 > 0:07:35ELIZABETH FRANK: You think they'll attack it less than the English?
0:07:35 > 0:07:39I can only pray that everybody will attack it less than I fear!
0:07:39 > 0:07:41WILLIAM HARDCASTLE: Are the Americans kinder than the English in criticism?
0:07:41 > 0:07:43Oh, no, I don't think so.
0:07:43 > 0:07:48Are they less distressed about the treatment of classics, possibly?
0:07:48 > 0:07:49I don't think so.
0:07:49 > 0:07:54I don't think so. But I think they are very impressed by what you think
0:07:54 > 0:07:55about the treatment of a classic.
0:07:55 > 0:07:59I'd like to ask you, Mr Welles, about your film career,
0:07:59 > 0:08:03apart from your infinitely varied other show career,
0:08:03 > 0:08:06the thing that sticks in most people's minds
0:08:06 > 0:08:10is that your personal creation was Citizen Kane.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13Lately, you've had Othello held up.
0:08:13 > 0:08:16I think you have a Somerset Maugham film, Three Cases Of Murder?
0:08:16 > 0:08:19I have a new film too, which is going to be released very soon,
0:08:19 > 0:08:21of my own, that I wrote myself.
0:08:21 > 0:08:23JOHN BEAVAN: How do you look at your own film career?
0:08:23 > 0:08:25How do you feel about it, quite frankly?
0:08:25 > 0:08:27Well, I don't know. I don't really...
0:08:27 > 0:08:30I'm not very interesting on this subject, you know.
0:08:30 > 0:08:35Well, we're always interested in people, and especially you tonight.
0:08:35 > 0:08:39Citizen Kane stays in our minds so strongly...
0:08:39 > 0:08:44I really... It's a terribly pompous sort of thing to say, I know,
0:08:44 > 0:08:47but I am really only interested in what I'm going to do
0:08:47 > 0:08:50and I find that, er...that, er...
0:08:50 > 0:08:54I dislike rather intensely everything that I've completely finished.
0:08:54 > 0:08:56Well, tell us about Mr Arkadin,
0:08:56 > 0:08:57which is still being made, or just being made.
0:08:57 > 0:08:59Well, it's finished, you know.
0:08:59 > 0:09:00That's in that dangerous condition,
0:09:00 > 0:09:03where in the morning I think it's splendid
0:09:03 > 0:09:05- and in the evening, I wonder. - What is it? A thriller?
0:09:05 > 0:09:07ELIZABETH FRANK: Is it a kind of sequel to Citizen Kane?
0:09:07 > 0:09:09Not at all. No, it's quite a different story.
0:09:09 > 0:09:10It has been said it was.
0:09:10 > 0:09:12- Not at all. - One of the Thin Man Stories?
0:09:12 > 0:09:16It's a story about a high financier,
0:09:16 > 0:09:21a man of many countries and three passports.
0:09:21 > 0:09:23Not at all a press lord.
0:09:23 > 0:09:26- Is it a political satire? - No.
0:09:26 > 0:09:28No, it's a, er...
0:09:28 > 0:09:34It's a tragedy, in a way, with melodramatic and comic decorations.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37It pretends to be a thriller and it isn't.
0:09:37 > 0:09:39That rather sounds as though it isn't thrilling.
0:09:39 > 0:09:41I'm doing a very poor job on this picture!
0:09:41 > 0:09:42Please, let's change the subject!
0:09:42 > 0:09:45Why did you make it in Spain, Mr Welles?
0:09:45 > 0:09:47Only the scenes that take place in Spain.
0:09:47 > 0:09:49- I see. - There's a castle in Spain.
0:09:49 > 0:09:52No particular sympathy for the Franco regime or anything like that?
0:09:52 > 0:09:54There's no political question in the picture.
0:09:54 > 0:09:59He's a man who has a castle in Spain and also a house in Germany
0:09:59 > 0:10:01- and we have scenes in Germany. - On the whole, Mr Welles...
0:10:01 > 0:10:02You want to talk about re-arming the Germans?
0:10:02 > 0:10:04In the last few years,
0:10:04 > 0:10:06you have been making your base more or less in Europe...
0:10:06 > 0:10:08- Yes. - ..have you not?
0:10:08 > 0:10:09Is there any particular reason for that?
0:10:09 > 0:10:11I mean, there's probably a very practical one, but...
0:10:11 > 0:10:15Well, I think if you stop and think about it,
0:10:15 > 0:10:18a great many of us have been in Europe during these last years,
0:10:18 > 0:10:22because it's been a kind of frontier, for us, in films.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25We've moved west and now we're coming back again.
0:10:25 > 0:10:29It's, a... It's a less organised,
0:10:29 > 0:10:32more anarchistic and freer atmosphere,
0:10:32 > 0:10:35because it isn't organised on an industrial basis.
0:10:35 > 0:10:37I'm speaking of continental film.
0:10:37 > 0:10:39Even in Franco's Spain? You mean it's more...
0:10:39 > 0:10:41- Well, we were on location. - I see.
0:10:41 > 0:10:43We were on location in Spain, you know.
0:10:43 > 0:10:46You came over here a little while ago just for one day
0:10:46 > 0:10:48to do a shot in Moby Dick.
0:10:48 > 0:10:50- Yes. - And you were quoted as saying,
0:10:50 > 0:10:54probably incorrectly, that £2,000 a day was your absolute minimum.
0:10:54 > 0:10:58Well, I got more than 2,000.
0:10:58 > 0:11:00And I will take less!
0:11:00 > 0:11:02THEY LAUGH
0:11:02 > 0:11:06To get back to this business of you living in Europe,
0:11:06 > 0:11:09as I think you have, pretty well since the war,
0:11:09 > 0:11:12you also, at one time, I can remember when I was in America,
0:11:12 > 0:11:14you were writing a column for the New York Post.
0:11:14 > 0:11:16That's right, New York Post, a daily column.
0:11:16 > 0:11:17- A political column. - Yes.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20Do you feel that you're, as it were, disenfranchising yourself?
0:11:20 > 0:11:24Do you ever want to get back into political America?
0:11:24 > 0:11:26- Yes, very much so. - You'd like to?
0:11:26 > 0:11:28- Very much. - You're from Wisconsin, aren't you?
0:11:28 > 0:11:31I was born there, but I'm not from a Wisconsin family.
0:11:31 > 0:11:33- You want to go back? - My people are Virginians.
0:11:33 > 0:11:35You'd like to do something about McCarthy?
0:11:35 > 0:11:37Well, it seems to have been done.
0:11:37 > 0:11:39Are you going to make a film called Citizen Joe one of these days?
0:11:39 > 0:11:43Well, it would be, er, a little late, you know.
0:11:43 > 0:11:46A bit late, but a very good film. Perhaps a tragedy?
0:11:46 > 0:11:49I don't think so, you know. Probably a farce!
0:11:49 > 0:11:52One of the things I always admire about you, Mr Welles,
0:11:52 > 0:11:56is your willingness to have a go. I remember back in Paris, in 1950,
0:11:56 > 0:11:59you were putting on two stage shows.
0:11:59 > 0:12:00One was called The Unthinking Lobster.
0:12:00 > 0:12:01That's right!
0:12:01 > 0:12:03The other, I think, was called Time Passes By,
0:12:03 > 0:12:05in which you appeared looking like a Mr Samuel Goldwyn,
0:12:05 > 0:12:06as I recall it, with a very good wig.
0:12:06 > 0:12:09I think everyone in Paris realised
0:12:09 > 0:12:11that you hadn't an earthly with those two plays
0:12:11 > 0:12:13and you were just doing it for fun.
0:12:13 > 0:12:14Would you agree with that,
0:12:14 > 0:12:17or did you think you might make a success of them?
0:12:17 > 0:12:19Well, we didn't have a failure, you know.
0:12:19 > 0:12:22Well, you didn't have a success, I'm afraid. You did produce Eartha Kitt.
0:12:22 > 0:12:26That was the first time I ever saw her, the beautiful coloured singer...
0:12:26 > 0:12:30Well, my definition of a success is not having things thrown at me.
0:12:30 > 0:12:32It's a... It's a...
0:12:32 > 0:12:34Have you often had things thrown at you?
0:12:34 > 0:12:38No, but I'm ready for it. Always ready!
0:12:38 > 0:12:41Does your fondness for Paris arise from your French name?
0:12:42 > 0:12:45- It's not a French name! - Orson? The little bear.
0:12:45 > 0:12:47Oh, that's... No, but Orson is Italian -
0:12:47 > 0:12:53from Orsino. I had an ancestor who was an Orsini, Orsino
0:12:53 > 0:12:56and, er... it's been a family name ever since.
0:12:56 > 0:12:59Nothing to do with the story of Orson and Valentine...
0:12:59 > 0:13:02- Quite another Orson, alas. - ..suckled by the bear.
0:13:02 > 0:13:03No.
0:13:03 > 0:13:07I was absolutely fascinated looking up some cuttings about you,
0:13:07 > 0:13:11just the other day, by the probably wildly inaccurate story
0:13:11 > 0:13:14that you were brought up by several great aunts,
0:13:14 > 0:13:18one of whom bathed in ginger ale, because champagne was too expensive.
0:13:18 > 0:13:19I do hope that's true. Is it?
0:13:19 > 0:13:23I wasn't brought up by these aunts, or great aunts.
0:13:23 > 0:13:25ELIZABETH FRANK: But that was true, about the ginger beer?
0:13:25 > 0:13:29It was...a legend in the family.
0:13:29 > 0:13:31Getting back to politics,
0:13:31 > 0:13:34is there any chance of you ever having a dip, you personally?
0:13:34 > 0:13:37I don't know, you know.
0:13:37 > 0:13:39Er, it's...er...
0:13:39 > 0:13:42If I say no, you'll be sure I'm running for something.
0:13:42 > 0:13:45In America, that's always the surest sign.
0:13:45 > 0:13:48Aren't you a very distant cousin of Mr Adlai Stevenson?
0:13:48 > 0:13:50Yes, yes, but I kept that secret during the last campaign.
0:13:50 > 0:13:52I thought it was the least I could do,
0:13:52 > 0:13:54in the interest of the Democratic party!
0:13:54 > 0:13:55In France, where you live,
0:13:55 > 0:13:58do you come up against much anti-Americanism?
0:13:58 > 0:14:02Well, you know, I think that, er...
0:14:03 > 0:14:06..anti anything, you know, you come up against an awful lot.
0:14:06 > 0:14:08I don't like it. But, of course you do, there's a good deal of it.
0:14:08 > 0:14:10Do you find yourself defending America frequently?
0:14:10 > 0:14:12Yes.
0:14:12 > 0:14:13Do the French criticise America
0:14:13 > 0:14:15for the right reasons or the wrong reasons on the whole, would you say?
0:14:15 > 0:14:20Don't you think that... countries and races,
0:14:20 > 0:14:23and big national generalisations like that,
0:14:23 > 0:14:27that the criticisms are always for the wrong reasons?
0:14:27 > 0:14:30I do. I'm very glad that you think so too.
0:14:31 > 0:14:35Well, talking of that, there's been a certain amount of criticism
0:14:35 > 0:14:39of the trends of American influence on things like horror comics
0:14:39 > 0:14:41and, indeed, on the films.
0:14:41 > 0:14:45Do you feel that there's anything really, when you get down to it,
0:14:45 > 0:14:47in the suggestion that American influence
0:14:47 > 0:14:51is towards a spread of juvenile delinquency through the world?
0:14:51 > 0:14:55I don't think that horror films or horror comics
0:14:55 > 0:14:57contribute to juvenile delinquency.
0:14:57 > 0:15:01I think that they may encourage psychotics,
0:15:01 > 0:15:04and homicidal, and other dangerous types,
0:15:04 > 0:15:10but juvenile delinquency is, I think, a symptom of the illness of our age.
0:15:10 > 0:15:15It doesn't come from lack of playgrounds or bad comic books,
0:15:15 > 0:15:20but of a great longing for youth to have something to rebel against.
0:15:20 > 0:15:22You wouldn't say that children are imitative
0:15:22 > 0:15:24and that they tend to imitate what they see or read?
0:15:24 > 0:15:26If they were, they would have come from the bear pits
0:15:26 > 0:15:30and the Globe Theatre and committed some rather extraordinary acts
0:15:30 > 0:15:34in the Elizabethan days, you know.
0:15:34 > 0:15:37ELIZABETH FRANK: You don't think that the glorification of violence
0:15:37 > 0:15:41which is shown, even in some of the Westerns, gives them ideas?
0:15:41 > 0:15:44It would make them think they liked to shoot from the hip, or...
0:15:44 > 0:15:46Well, you see, I think...
0:15:46 > 0:15:47..quick on the draw and this sort of thing.
0:15:47 > 0:15:51I think that all vital periods of drama and of literature
0:15:51 > 0:15:53are periods of great violence,
0:15:53 > 0:15:56and that all of our great plays and novels are violent.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58And I don't like them...
0:15:58 > 0:16:01When they are poor novels or when they are not works of art,
0:16:01 > 0:16:05they become shoddy and seem to be, er...
0:16:05 > 0:16:09seem to be pandering to something wicked, you know.
0:16:09 > 0:16:11Yes, but usually virtue triumphs.
0:16:11 > 0:16:13Whereas in the horror comics, it doesn't, always.
0:16:13 > 0:16:15- Oh, doesn't it? - I don't think so.
0:16:15 > 0:16:17ELIZABETH FRANK: No, not always.
0:16:17 > 0:16:19Well, it doesn't in Edgar Allan Poe either, you know.
0:16:19 > 0:16:21No. But you were not brought up on horror comics?
0:16:21 > 0:16:24They didn't have them when you were a boy in America?
0:16:24 > 0:16:26No, I don't suppose...
0:16:26 > 0:16:29They had horror stories and horror films.
0:16:29 > 0:16:33I'm not for them. I'm very much against violence and brutality
0:16:33 > 0:16:36as a popular subject.
0:16:36 > 0:16:39I think it is over-exploited, I quite agree with that.
0:16:39 > 0:16:40Would you prohibit horror comics?
0:16:40 > 0:16:44I wouldn't prohibit anything. I'm very much against censorship.
0:16:44 > 0:16:46Even for children?
0:16:47 > 0:16:49- That's a very difficult question. - Very difficult point.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52But, you see, I don't think children were ever hurt by Grimm
0:16:52 > 0:16:56and I remember that the end of Snow White in Grimm -
0:16:56 > 0:16:57the real end, not the Disney one -
0:16:57 > 0:16:59is when the witch is given
0:16:59 > 0:17:03red-hot iron shoes to dance in until she dies.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05Everybody's terribly happy about it
0:17:05 > 0:17:07and I don't think it made any delinquents out of me then.
0:17:07 > 0:17:10I think children ARE violent, you know.
0:17:10 > 0:17:13Which of your many activities is your favourite?
0:17:13 > 0:17:16I know it's probably true to say that it all forms part of one whole,
0:17:16 > 0:17:19but acting, directing, writing, producing -
0:17:19 > 0:17:24what has given you most pleasure in your career?
0:17:24 > 0:17:27I think that the, er, directing has.
0:17:27 > 0:17:28Directing films, that is?
0:17:28 > 0:17:30Directing films and the theatre, yes.
0:17:30 > 0:17:34And what do you look back at with most joy and pride?
0:17:34 > 0:17:36I...I... As I said before, I know it's probably...
0:17:36 > 0:17:40I don't look back with as much joy and pride as you might suppose.
0:17:40 > 0:17:43I'm supposed to be rather pleased with my work
0:17:43 > 0:17:45and I'm only pleased with what I'm going to do.
0:17:45 > 0:17:49In Citizen Kane, you did practically all the things that you do.
0:17:49 > 0:17:51Don't you think that probably was the most successful thing for you?
0:17:51 > 0:17:54Not at all. I think Ambersons is a much better film.
0:17:54 > 0:17:55I did too, yes.
0:17:55 > 0:17:58Well, now, if a millionaire were to come along and offer you a chance
0:17:58 > 0:18:00to do anything you wanted, what would you do?
0:18:00 > 0:18:03- Right this minute? - Right this minute now.
0:18:03 > 0:18:04Right this minute. Well...
0:18:04 > 0:18:06how many millions?
0:18:06 > 0:18:07As many as you want.
0:18:07 > 0:18:10- Money no object. - Thank you, Mr Beavan!
0:18:10 > 0:18:11There's a lovely idea.
0:18:11 > 0:18:15I think I would start a foundation
0:18:15 > 0:18:18and hire a great number of constitutional lawyers...
0:18:20 > 0:18:25..and study the encroachment of the police
0:18:25 > 0:18:29on civil liberties all over the world in every country.
0:18:30 > 0:18:32Which do you think is the freest country?
0:18:32 > 0:18:34You've lived in a great many countries.
0:18:34 > 0:18:38Which is the one which you feel freest and easiest in?
0:18:38 > 0:18:40Well, I don't know.
0:18:40 > 0:18:42I feel free almost everywhere.
0:18:42 > 0:18:44But I don't think people are free, you know.
0:18:44 > 0:18:49An artist is, er... inhabits a kind of free climate
0:18:49 > 0:18:53that he perhaps doesn't deserve,
0:18:53 > 0:18:56which doesn't reflect the realities, I don't think, of life.
0:18:56 > 0:19:01What particular examples of police interference are you thinking of?
0:19:01 > 0:19:03Are you thinking of petty things
0:19:03 > 0:19:05like the bother of having a car these days?
0:19:05 > 0:19:09Petty and big. You see, I think the police are taking the place of
0:19:09 > 0:19:10the judiciary, all over the world.
0:19:10 > 0:19:14And I think that we are confusing police regulations with the law.
0:19:14 > 0:19:16Almost everywhere.
0:19:16 > 0:19:17I was fascinated, Mr Welles,
0:19:17 > 0:19:19with what you said just now about Europe being anarchistic.
0:19:19 > 0:19:21Particularly Latin Europe.
0:19:21 > 0:19:25You like a little touch of anarchy, with your drinks?
0:19:25 > 0:19:27Well, I like a touch of anarchy
0:19:27 > 0:19:31in a business which is as difficult and complicated as the films.
0:19:31 > 0:19:35Mm-hm. A kind of light-headedness, light-heartedness?
0:19:35 > 0:19:39Light-headedness, ah. Alas, no. As little of that as possible.
0:19:39 > 0:19:42But light-heartedness, yes, and the kind of freedom
0:19:42 > 0:19:45that can't go with a really superb organisation and an assembly line.
0:19:45 > 0:19:46Yes.
0:19:46 > 0:19:50I don't happen to be a good assembly line film-maker.
0:19:50 > 0:19:53But it's possible to make very good films on the assembly line.
0:19:53 > 0:19:58I'm not temperamentally adapted to it - that's what I meant to say.
0:19:58 > 0:20:00Was I right in saying that
0:20:00 > 0:20:02you were writing a book on international organisations?
0:20:02 > 0:20:03Yes, yes.
0:20:03 > 0:20:05- Give us some idea... - It's a review,
0:20:05 > 0:20:09a review of international organisations in the last century.
0:20:09 > 0:20:12- Going back to the League, UNESCO... - Right through, yes.
0:20:12 > 0:20:16And discussing the...
0:20:16 > 0:20:18the questions very broadly and, er...
0:20:18 > 0:20:23And, er... postulating some...
0:20:24 > 0:20:27Do you like working, or is it an effort?
0:20:27 > 0:20:29Do you have to drive yourself to it, or...?
0:20:29 > 0:20:33Yes, I have to drive myself. I'm very lazy.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35I work very hard because I'm very lazy,
0:20:35 > 0:20:39as all industrious people, I think, are basically lazy.
0:20:39 > 0:20:44You...as I said, you sawed Marlene Dietrich in half.
0:20:44 > 0:20:45Indeed I did.
0:20:45 > 0:20:48- That must've been... - A pleasure!
0:20:48 > 0:20:50I mean in the nicest sense of the word.
0:20:50 > 0:20:55Putting her back together again was a pleasure, Mr Hardcastle.
0:20:55 > 0:20:59Among your experiences of great actresses,
0:20:59 > 0:21:03and in all the films you've done, who do you remember most
0:21:03 > 0:21:10as perhaps the most beautiful and the most effective actress of your...?
0:21:10 > 0:21:12- Oh, I think Garbo. - Garbo.
0:21:12 > 0:21:14- Did you ever act with her? - No, I did not.
0:21:14 > 0:21:16Do you ever see her these days?
0:21:16 > 0:21:19No, I haven't seen her in several years. I have seen her a good bit.
0:21:19 > 0:21:22ELIZABETH FRANK: She's not likely to make another picture, is she?
0:21:22 > 0:21:25One hopes, you know. It's one of those great...
0:21:25 > 0:21:28Like one waits for the old man of the mountains...
0:21:28 > 0:21:32Now, about acting. Is the quiet style of acting going out of fashion?
0:21:32 > 0:21:35You know, the gentlemanly shrug of the shoulder
0:21:35 > 0:21:38or the lift of the eyebrow to express some profound emotion.
0:21:38 > 0:21:39Is that on its way out?
0:21:39 > 0:21:44Typical English, West End style of acting, started by Gerald du Maurier.
0:21:44 > 0:21:47Well, it can't really go out, as long as there's that machine...
0:21:47 > 0:21:50- But you Americans seem to be... - ..so close to us.
0:21:50 > 0:21:51You Americans seem to be bringing
0:21:51 > 0:21:54a typical American style of acting into the theatre.
0:21:54 > 0:21:56Would you say it's broader?
0:21:56 > 0:21:58Broader, more florid, more tense,
0:21:58 > 0:22:01more exciting than the typical English style.
0:22:01 > 0:22:04And I think it's affecting our English actors too.
0:22:04 > 0:22:05- Is it? - And for the better.
0:22:05 > 0:22:06The critics like it.
0:22:06 > 0:22:11Well, of course, I think there've been two great traditions
0:22:11 > 0:22:13in the English theatre in my lifetime.
0:22:13 > 0:22:15One has been the heroic one,
0:22:15 > 0:22:19to which, of course, Olivier and Gielgud and so on belonged to.
0:22:19 > 0:22:22And then Gerald's drawing room one,
0:22:22 > 0:22:24which is, of course, superlatively good.
0:22:24 > 0:22:28When it's done well, it's the best thing of its kind that there is.
0:22:28 > 0:22:29Good for the films, of course...
0:22:29 > 0:22:31- Yes, and wonderful in the theatre. - ..where everything is magnified.
0:22:31 > 0:22:35ELIZABETH FRANK: The wide screen must alter acting techniques?
0:22:35 > 0:22:38Except that it's immediately cancelled by this machine
0:22:38 > 0:22:41that's only five feet away from anybody who's looking at it.
0:22:41 > 0:22:43What do you think of the big screen?
0:22:43 > 0:22:45I think it's big.
0:22:45 > 0:22:48Does it add to the artistry of pictures?
0:22:48 > 0:22:50Well...no.
0:22:50 > 0:22:55I think the enemy of the films is, of course, reality.
0:22:55 > 0:22:59And films are best when they manage poetry
0:22:59 > 0:23:03by reducing the element of reality
0:23:03 > 0:23:08and introducing something which is an invention of the film-maker.
0:23:08 > 0:23:13And the wide screen is simply a wide screen, showing Niagara Falls,
0:23:13 > 0:23:16or a big road full of centurions,
0:23:16 > 0:23:19or a lot of lions eating up a lot of Christians.
0:23:19 > 0:23:23Well, Mr Welles, as I say, it was awfully good of you to come along
0:23:23 > 0:23:24and I hope tonight has, perhaps,
0:23:24 > 0:23:28persuaded you to take a closer interest in television
0:23:28 > 0:23:30and, perhaps, to come back again soon.
0:23:30 > 0:23:32Again, very many thanks for coming along. Good night.
0:23:32 > 0:23:37Thank you very much for asking me. Thank you for watching. Good night.
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