:00:13. > :00:19.Currently the world number one in the women's double rankings, Sania
:00:20. > :00:23.Mirza, the first woman to make the position. -- Indian. She has an
:00:24. > :00:28.iconic status in the country that has been attacked several times by
:00:29. > :00:33.critics for her gender and religion and even who she chose to marry.
:00:34. > :00:53.Today I will talk to her about her journey and the controversies she
:00:54. > :00:59.has suffered. Sania Mirza, thank you very much for being on our 100 Women
:01:00. > :01:03.show. You started playing tennis at the age of six. Who introduced you
:01:04. > :01:11.to tennis? Both my parents are my mother first. They wanted their
:01:12. > :01:13.child, boy or girl, to play a sport, because sport is close to our
:01:14. > :01:21.family's hard to be my mother was the first one who took three to the
:01:22. > :01:27.tennis court. -- heart.. I remember that day. I remember her saying, she
:01:28. > :01:33.is going to play, even though the coach said she is too small. She
:01:34. > :01:37.said, if you don't take her, I will take her somewhere else. It was oath
:01:38. > :01:43.of them, but my mother at the beginning to pushed it more. --
:01:44. > :01:48.both. My dad thought I was too young. In an Indian context, is that
:01:49. > :02:01.you need, where you have a mother taking a daughter and introducing
:02:02. > :02:05.her to a sport? -- unique. I think, especially a sport like tennis,
:02:06. > :02:11.which is not really... It is not so much... Especially 20 years ago, it
:02:12. > :02:16.wasn't really played a lot, especially by girls. We didn't have
:02:17. > :02:21.any champions at that time you could look up to and say, I want to be
:02:22. > :02:27.like her or him guilty whatever. There was one before me. -- or. But
:02:28. > :02:32.I didn't know who he was at six years old, of course. Playing it and
:02:33. > :02:38.wanting to be professional at it as a young girl was a big deal.
:02:39. > :02:44.Socially and... You know... Just in general... People didn't think
:02:45. > :02:47.tennis would be a professional sport, like a profession, that you
:02:48. > :02:52.could do. It is just something you can play and then automatically get
:02:53. > :02:58.back to studying. And then, do you want to be a doctor... What kind of
:02:59. > :03:02.comments did you have from the wider community? Did they think it was
:03:03. > :03:09.strange? Not at six, of course. I used to play tennis and swim and
:03:10. > :03:13.rollerskate. I was better at tennis so I took that up.
:03:14. > :03:19.(LAUGHING). At six, I didn't know, of course, no one does. I used to
:03:20. > :03:23.play six days a week in the afternoon. Light, as I grew older,
:03:24. > :03:27.people thought, OK, she is going to play like all the other do and then
:03:28. > :03:33.it will be as all out at some point. -- But,. When she is 13 her
:03:34. > :03:40.time will come... But it didn't happen. I kept getting better. At
:03:41. > :03:47.around 12 I realised how good I was, to be honest. That is when I knew,
:03:48. > :03:53.wow, I won the under 14 and under 16s on the same day. I thought, I
:03:54. > :03:58.must be really good at this. -- 14s. That is when I let I should keep
:03:59. > :04:12.laying. But after that point when I got older, of course I got some
:04:13. > :04:18.common. -- playing. They're asked -- there are certain dos and don'ts.
:04:19. > :04:24.Playing inside is for girls and outside is for boys. I had a kind of
:04:25. > :04:32.Barbie dolls as well, so I wasn't just a tomboy. -- a lot of. But many
:04:33. > :04:37.people were saying, I need to focus on my studies, how make a living?
:04:38. > :04:39.These are the questions it used to come all the time. Did you think you
:04:40. > :04:45.could do this professionally early on? Only a handful of Indians were
:04:46. > :04:52.competing on an international stage. All of them were men. Like I
:04:53. > :04:57.said, I don't remember a day where we all sat down as a family and
:04:58. > :05:02.that, from today on we will be a professional tennis playing family.
:05:03. > :05:05.It just took off. My parents took pride in everything I did. When I
:05:06. > :05:10.was eight I was playing a state tournament. She was 16 years old. I
:05:11. > :05:15.was eight. At eight you don't know a lot of things. But when you beat
:05:16. > :05:22.someone who is 16 unique have to be good at what you are doing. -- you
:05:23. > :05:26.know you have to. I don't remember much but I remember that day, she
:05:27. > :05:31.was crying and she went off the court because she lost to someone
:05:32. > :05:38.half the size of. Suddenly, India had this woman representing them
:05:39. > :05:44.internationally. -- half her size. I remember a surge of pride in the
:05:45. > :05:54.country. Dear remember that? I first tasted stardom... -- do you. I was
:05:55. > :06:00.going somewhere and there were so many people at the airport. Then I
:06:01. > :06:11.was in this open anything with 50 guards around me. It was... It was
:06:12. > :06:19.surreal. It was unbelievable. -- open-air thing. But when I made a
:06:20. > :06:26.transition to the seniors player league I was still young. But I felt
:06:27. > :06:30.I was around still tell a long-time. Yeah... I remember my phone going
:06:31. > :06:35.off non-stop. I remember my parents were not in the country and I was
:06:36. > :06:41.supposed to play Serena and my phone would not stop reading. I came back
:06:42. > :06:52.and all was doing was interviews and endorsements and shoes. -- ringing.
:06:53. > :06:55.-- shoots. I was everywhere, in the newspaper, the television, it was
:06:56. > :07:05.amazing for an eating rolled at that once. But everything comes with good
:07:06. > :07:11.and bad. -- 18-year-old. There was a lot of pressure. But for the most
:07:12. > :07:20.part it was good. I remember a headline,. You had all this
:07:21. > :07:22.pressure. -- Sania Mania. You got criticised for the clothes you were
:07:23. > :07:32.wearing to play these board. Did that get to you? -- play the sport.
:07:33. > :07:39.It is tough to grow up in the limelight. It is tough, anyway, when
:07:40. > :07:44.you are a girl to be in the limelight. People are looking at
:07:45. > :07:52.what you were and what you it. But as a teenager, people make calls as
:07:53. > :07:59.a teenager that you might not now. -- wear and eat. There is a
:08:00. > :08:04.difference between a teenager and a famous person sticking out of the
:08:05. > :08:10.house, however. It did not make me angry. -- sneaking. I just felt it
:08:11. > :08:16.was odd. That is the space I was in. That is funny. I was a teenager. I
:08:17. > :08:22.didn't really understand. Like, I am playing tennis, what does anything
:08:23. > :08:27.else matter? I saw myself as a tennis layer. But at 29 you
:08:28. > :08:37.understand that every thing goes with being a star. -- player. So, it
:08:38. > :08:43.didn't make me angry, but confused, that is the right word. You had
:08:44. > :08:51.bodyguards and there was a report of some was so releasing some statement
:08:52. > :08:58.about what you were wearing. Did that frighten you? It happened in
:08:59. > :09:03.the past and I don't want to talk about it. There was a lot of
:09:04. > :09:09.unnecessary Bedia hype. Everything I did got a little boring after some
:09:10. > :09:13.point. -- media. So they made up a lot. I will write a book and
:09:14. > :09:19.everything will be revealed in that. I believe many things were
:09:20. > :09:26.taken out of portion. I did have security. -- proportion. When you
:09:27. > :09:32.see things on the news you want to secure yourself. We eventually
:09:33. > :09:42.learned that there was no threat... It is a long story. All I am saying
:09:43. > :09:46.is that for someone who is 18-19 years old, of course it is
:09:47. > :09:50.overwhelming. But I was a star. I had become a household name. For the
:09:51. > :09:55.first time ever we had a tennis layer who was on TV and was doing
:09:56. > :10:08.endorsements and speaking her mind. -- player. We had the first female,
:10:09. > :10:12.so to say, a star. That was all in. -- star that was born. But I was
:10:13. > :10:16.still a teenager. You were speaking in mind, you said. I think you have
:10:17. > :10:19.said in the past as well that many times you feel you have been
:10:20. > :10:25.targeted because you are a woman. Why do you say that? Not just that.
:10:26. > :10:30.I don't think it is only because of that. I have never said it is only
:10:31. > :10:35.because I am a woman. But many times it has happened. Everything goes
:10:36. > :10:39.hand in hand. We love to see that our stars do not have a killer
:10:40. > :10:46.instinct and the minute someone loses... Whoever it is... They say,
:10:47. > :10:52.they don't have a killer instinct and that arrogance to win. But when
:10:53. > :10:57.they do have a star and athlete, when they do find someone who has
:10:58. > :11:02.that, they label them arrogant and they say, no, no, no, they should be
:11:03. > :11:07.humble. To be a winner you have to have a certain kind of strength in
:11:08. > :11:14.new, inside and outside. That goes way beyond the field of the tennis
:11:15. > :11:24.court. -- in you. That his personality. At that point I is
:11:25. > :11:30.spoke as I do today. -- spoke. Have you ever regretted speaking out?
:11:31. > :11:38.Never, not at all. I think that... It is like... I would see one and it
:11:39. > :11:49.was equal to four. -- say. Maybe to a large extent the media was going
:11:50. > :11:55.after Mr Big we have become a -- after me. -- we have become a very
:11:56. > :12:01.social media heavy society. But we were both growing together. A lot of
:12:02. > :12:06.the things were selling newspapers and many of the things I was not
:12:07. > :12:11.saying were selling newspapers as well. It helped a lot of people to
:12:12. > :12:16.do that. They thought there was no harm. But many times people did not
:12:17. > :12:25.realise that it is very difficult for someone in their teens or even a
:12:26. > :12:31.30 rolled to deal with that. -- good or bad. -- 30-year-old. Sometimes
:12:32. > :12:36.you don't want to see yourself in the open, you know? Do you think
:12:37. > :12:43.different things would have been written if you were a man? I
:12:44. > :12:48.don't... I think we live, to a large extent, in a man's world. I have
:12:49. > :12:53.said that before. Many people come out and say that we don't, but the
:12:54. > :12:56.fact of the matter is that if you are a woman you have to fight hard.
:12:57. > :13:03.I think you can agree with me on that. That is just the way it works.
:13:04. > :13:09.I think it has to do with the world, not just India and this side of the
:13:10. > :13:18.world. The whole world is like that so, obviously, it doesn't just
:13:19. > :13:24.happen in India like many believe. But it is a man's world, to a large
:13:25. > :13:28.extent. But when a woman comes out and says this is how I feel about
:13:29. > :13:35.it, she is labelled as rebellious or to outgoing or career minded. There
:13:36. > :13:41.are no words like that for men. When a man wants to achieve something he
:13:42. > :13:47.is labelled as ambitious and good. He is amazing. He is such a good
:13:48. > :13:52.guy. He is driven. When a woman does that she is too outgoing. When is
:13:53. > :13:57.she going to have kids and get married? She doesn't care about
:13:58. > :13:59.family. Even now, when you have achieved so much, do you still get
:14:00. > :14:08.those questioned about marriage and children? All the time. --
:14:09. > :14:12.questions. I find it disrespectful to ask someone when they are having
:14:13. > :14:16.a child. Just because I am a public figure it doesn't give anyone the
:14:17. > :14:23.right to ask about what happens in my bedroom. Nevertheless, many women
:14:24. > :14:29.are asked that. It is not just me. Many women in the limelight are
:14:30. > :14:31.asked that. I was asked when I am planning to have a child, and I was
:14:32. > :14:45.like, am I missing something? That was one of the questions I was
:14:46. > :14:51.asked in a press conference. You are married to a Pakistani together, and
:14:52. > :14:56.when you answer that question there was a lot of criticism against you.
:14:57. > :15:02.Is that something you expected? We fell in love. We didn't think about
:15:03. > :15:06.what country we are from. To be honest I think people expected us to
:15:07. > :15:09.come out and say we are trying to build these relations between
:15:10. > :15:13.Pakistan and India. We were not. We were trying to get married, and we
:15:14. > :15:16.were in love and that could have been someone from Timbuktu for all I
:15:17. > :15:20.care. It wasn't about that. It wasn't about which country he was
:15:21. > :15:24.from. And him either, he got a lot of flak for no reason. Again, maybe
:15:25. > :15:28.because he was a man it was different for him that it was for
:15:29. > :15:33.me. What we did expect that it would make news. Everything makes news.
:15:34. > :15:38.Did we expect it to go the way it was? No, most definitely not. But
:15:39. > :15:41.your loyalty and patriotism towards India has been questioned. There was
:15:42. > :15:45.a politician who even made a comment that... He called you the
:15:46. > :15:51.daughter-in-law of Pakistan. That must have hurt you. It did, that is
:15:52. > :15:56.why it... It more than hurt, it just made me really angry. Because I
:15:57. > :15:59.think that... But then now, when I look back in hindsight, sure, we all
:16:00. > :16:04.have emotions. And even though it might be shopping for some people,
:16:05. > :16:10.asked celebrities, we do have emotions and we do feel angry and
:16:11. > :16:15.hurt about things. Now, when I look back, I have gotten so much love. We
:16:16. > :16:19.are a country of 1.2 billion people, and more outside India. I have
:16:20. > :16:24.gotten so much love over the last 15 years that I have been around in the
:16:25. > :16:28.public eye, that I thought, you know, if ten or 15 people have a
:16:29. > :16:32.problem with you I don't think you should cry over it or get angry over
:16:33. > :16:37.it. Because everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I... So I am not
:16:38. > :16:41.angry any more. I was not angry, 20 minutes after that breakdown that I
:16:42. > :16:46.had. Who was the one woman that you find inspiring? My mum, I think my
:16:47. > :16:53.mum is definitely... She is very strong. We have very, very similar
:16:54. > :16:58.personalities. Very impulsive. But we also, like, if we have something
:16:59. > :17:02.to do we go and do it. We don't say let's do it tomorrow. That is never
:17:03. > :17:07.the case. And as a tennis player I have always found Steffi Graf the
:17:08. > :17:10.most inspiring. For me she has been an idle. Like you are saying, when I
:17:11. > :17:23.was growing up I didn't really have a woman to look up to. But Steffi
:17:24. > :17:26.Graf is someone I always looked up to. Now, your career has been on a
:17:27. > :17:28.high this year. You have one, 2... Grandslam titles and various other
:17:29. > :17:31.tournaments. Where do you go from here? I mean, I have literally had
:17:32. > :17:34.six days. I played my last final on the second, and like a told you I
:17:35. > :17:43.haven't been home since I went to Singapore. I have been in and out of
:17:44. > :17:46.Mumbai. It has been really busy, it has been really good. But I start
:17:47. > :17:49.training tomorrow because they need to get a couple of weeks in. Looking
:17:50. > :17:52.forward to playing in December, getting some more training in there
:17:53. > :17:58.and then we had to Australia. For me, Martina has been incredible. We
:17:59. > :18:02.have won nine titles together, and I have won ten in a year. If you have
:18:03. > :18:08.two totals in the year it is already a good year. So just put things in
:18:09. > :18:11.perspective on how good the year has been, it has been a dream year. The
:18:12. > :18:18.finish number one for me has been incredible. Sure, we have two... We
:18:19. > :18:22.like to win more, of course, but people ask us where you want to go
:18:23. > :18:25.from here. I mean, you don't necessarily have to go anywhere, you
:18:26. > :18:29.just keep maintaining it. Hopefully we can win some more. It would be
:18:30. > :18:32.amazing if we could start with another Grand Slam in Australia. If
:18:33. > :18:37.you look at your peers right now, you have Serena Williams who is in
:18:38. > :18:41.her 30 and still at the top. Our attitude is changing the older
:18:42. > :18:45.players? Yes, also the game has evolved quite a lot. So I think the
:18:46. > :18:50.breakthrough that you could make say 20 years ago, even when Martina was
:18:51. > :18:55.able to win at 15 at the time, and 14, we had these kinds of players. I
:18:56. > :18:58.think that today the game is so much more physical. That is tough for a
:18:59. > :19:03.15-year-old, the sort of win Grand Slams. It is not as possible because
:19:04. > :19:07.physically they are not as developed as 25 -year-olds, you know? That
:19:08. > :19:12.also has a lot to do with it. But I think Serena is an unbelievable
:19:13. > :19:17.athlete. She is one of the greatest athletes we have ever seen in any
:19:18. > :19:22.sport. And to be where she is, and have the kind of body she has today,
:19:23. > :19:25.how strong she is, she is a true example of what women can achieve,
:19:26. > :19:29.you know, regardless of what age they are. And you have had praise
:19:30. > :19:35.from the likes of her and Martina Navratilova, how does that feel? It
:19:36. > :19:40.feels great. Martina is someone who has seen me for a very long time.
:19:41. > :19:46.When I actually made my first day in 2003, she was in Hyderabad at the
:19:47. > :19:50.first tournament I played. She has seen me for a very long time, she
:19:51. > :19:53.has seen me for a very long time, she has seen Myhrvold. So it is
:19:54. > :19:56.amazing to get praise from a person who has achieved practically
:19:57. > :20:01.everything there is to achieve in the sport. And she won everything,
:20:02. > :20:05.you name it -- she has seen me evolve. I am playing a couple of
:20:06. > :20:08.exhibition matches at the end of the month of her as well. She is an
:20:09. > :20:12.amazing inspiration, the way she has fought against so many things to be
:20:13. > :20:17.where she is today, and she is still so amazingly fit, are close to 60.
:20:18. > :20:21.So it was a true honour for me to get those words from her, and she
:20:22. > :20:24.has watched two of my finals last year and this year and I happen to
:20:25. > :20:29.win both. And I was playing really good in both of those finals. You
:20:30. > :20:33.know, when tennis achieved pay parity as well, there were some
:20:34. > :20:37.players that said the women should play five sets as well, not 3-set.
:20:38. > :20:43.How do you react to that? It's fine, we were told that and we were like,
:20:44. > :20:48.sure, no problem. I mean, they play five sets for four tournaments a
:20:49. > :20:51.year, it's not like they play five sets all throughout the year, it is
:20:52. > :20:56.the 4 tournaments that they play five sets for, and there is a lot of
:20:57. > :20:59.counterarguments to that which I don't want to get into at this point
:21:00. > :21:04.in time. But I think the fact of the matter is that what Billie Jean King
:21:05. > :21:07.did for us as a sport, and for women, in our sport, is truly
:21:08. > :21:11.incredible. And it should be recognised, every minute. And we
:21:12. > :21:15.feel really blessed to have someone who has been there and who has done
:21:16. > :21:21.that for us, so that we could get it to 2015, where we are today. As
:21:22. > :21:24.four... Like I said, when you say a lot of men players, and a lot of men
:21:25. > :21:27.players are not from India, not from the side of the world, they are from
:21:28. > :21:31.all over the world. So obviously this kind of feeling exists
:21:32. > :21:36.everywhere. Some pace as it is more pronounced, some places it is less
:21:37. > :21:40.pronounced. I don't think playing five sets of three sets is really
:21:41. > :21:46.the barrier whether one should get an equal pay or not. I don't think
:21:47. > :21:49.because you play two sets more than us you should get more money than
:21:50. > :21:55.us. That is a very silly argument, because we train... If not harder,
:21:56. > :22:00.probably the same as the guys too. But anyway, it is pointless to speak
:22:01. > :22:06.about that right now. I think it is a silly argument that because they
:22:07. > :22:11.play two sets more they should get $1 million more than people get
:22:12. > :22:14.because they played three sets. In the 20 years, how much has the
:22:15. > :22:21.investment and the attitudes for change? A lot. Attitude towards
:22:22. > :22:25.women's sport has changed, the fact that we have a movie, a Bollywood
:22:26. > :22:28.movie about a woman athlete, or in terms of just sport, I think before
:22:29. > :22:32.when you said you were playing a sport it was kind of given that you
:22:33. > :22:35.were going to play cricket and cricket is the only profession that
:22:36. > :22:41.you are going to be good at, or you can professionally bone at, so to
:22:42. > :22:47.say. What I think that -- professionally own at. Are we still
:22:48. > :22:53.lacking a little bit, in terms of more global sports, like golf or
:22:54. > :22:57.football or tennis? Yes, we are. But also, because they are much tougher
:22:58. > :23:01.sportswear a lot more countries play it. A lot more infrastructure, a lot
:23:02. > :23:06.more systems need to be in place. For me, whatever I did, whatever we
:23:07. > :23:13.have done, it was all trial and error. And we didn't come out of
:23:14. > :23:17.that system, we came out because our parents backed us. And you have
:23:18. > :23:26.opened a tennis Academy in your home city. Is that a way of nurturing
:23:27. > :23:32.future Sanias? Yes, not just future Sanias, but tennis has come a long
:23:33. > :23:38.way over the last 12 years on Sunday that the breakthrough, and we don't
:23:39. > :23:41.want it to go back. Tennis is a household name, people watch it on
:23:42. > :23:45.TV and they understand, and 12 years ago it was a sort of like that will
:23:46. > :23:50.stop you know, we didn't really have a household name that was recognised
:23:51. > :23:51.on the street is a tennis player. I want a legacy of tennis to go on. I
:23:52. > :23:58.don't want a legacy of tennis to go on. I
:23:59. > :24:02.know how long I will play, maybe a year, maybe five years. And the only
:24:03. > :24:05.way we can do that is to have more players coming out of play at the
:24:06. > :24:10.highest level. So I have been asked this question so many times over the
:24:11. > :24:17.last, you know, ten to 12 years, and I always come up blank. So I thought
:24:18. > :24:22.finally we should do something about It. Sania Mirza, thank you for being
:24:23. > :24:29.on the BBC's 100 Women.