0:00:02 > 0:00:03BBC Four Collections -
0:00:03 > 0:00:06specially chosen programmes from the BBC Archive.
0:00:06 > 0:00:07For this Collection,
0:00:07 > 0:00:08Sir Michael Parkinson
0:00:08 > 0:00:10has selected BBC interviews
0:00:10 > 0:00:12with influential figures
0:00:12 > 0:00:13of the 20th century.
0:00:13 > 0:00:15More programmes on this theme
0:00:15 > 0:00:16and other BBC Four Collections
0:00:16 > 0:00:19are available on BBC iPlayer.
0:00:30 > 0:00:32CHEERING
0:00:58 > 0:01:01What's the result going to be of the big fight?
0:01:01 > 0:01:03No problem.
0:01:03 > 0:01:08No problem. This will be the biggest upset since Sonny Liston,
0:01:08 > 0:01:10and I think it is befitting
0:01:10 > 0:01:13that I go out of boxing just like I came in -
0:01:13 > 0:01:18defeating a big, bad monster that nobody could destroy.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21A hard punch. I'm the underdog.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24If he hits me, I'm in trouble, like the Sonny Liston fight,
0:01:24 > 0:01:28but I came back and I shook the world and I got Liston.
0:01:28 > 0:01:30Now it's ten years since Sonny Liston.
0:01:30 > 0:01:33I'm meeting another big, bad, strong monster,
0:01:33 > 0:01:36knockout artist that beats everybody.
0:01:36 > 0:01:38Sonny Liston knocked out Patterson twice
0:01:38 > 0:01:41and I was supposed to fall but he didn't knock me out
0:01:41 > 0:01:46because he could hit hard but he couldn't find nothing to hit.
0:01:46 > 0:01:48George Foreman knocked out Ken Norton,
0:01:48 > 0:01:50knocked out Joe Frazier.
0:01:50 > 0:01:52True, I didn't knock him out
0:01:52 > 0:01:54but I'm so fast, so hard-hitting, so scientific,
0:01:54 > 0:01:58I'm a totally different man from Frazier and Norton.
0:01:58 > 0:02:00Listen, David, when I meet this man,
0:02:00 > 0:02:04if you think the world was surprised when Nixon resigned,
0:02:04 > 0:02:06wait till I whip Foreman's behind!
0:02:10 > 0:02:14I'm telling you, David, I'm down to 215lb,
0:02:14 > 0:02:18right now. I said it, 215 - I'm fighting weight already.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21I usually train six weeks for a fight. I've trained four months
0:02:21 > 0:02:25for a fight. I'm chopping trees. I've done something special.
0:02:25 > 0:02:27I've wrestled with an alligator.
0:02:27 > 0:02:29I believe you totally!
0:02:29 > 0:02:33- I believe you completely. - I have tussled with a whale,
0:02:33 > 0:02:36I have handcuffed lightning, thrown thunder in jail.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39Now, you know I'm bad. Only last week I murdered a rock,
0:02:39 > 0:02:42injured a stone, hospitalised a brick.
0:02:42 > 0:02:44I'm so mean I make medicine sick!
0:02:46 > 0:02:48The man's in trouble.
0:02:48 > 0:02:52Listen, George Foreman, people are afraid of George Foreman.
0:02:52 > 0:02:54They talk about how hard he hits.
0:02:54 > 0:02:56The world has been deceived.
0:02:56 > 0:02:58You listen to me now. I've never told you wrong.
0:02:58 > 0:03:00The man don't hit hard.
0:03:00 > 0:03:03He knocked Joe Frazier down six times, he got up six times.
0:03:03 > 0:03:06Joe "King" Roman, the Tokyo, Japan, fight,
0:03:06 > 0:03:10the Puerto Rican champion, knocked him down three times,
0:03:10 > 0:03:11he jumped up three times.
0:03:11 > 0:03:14He knocked Ken Norton down four times, he jumped up four times.
0:03:14 > 0:03:18When have you ever saw the man say, "Seven, eight, nine, ten,
0:03:18 > 0:03:19"count this man out"?
0:03:19 > 0:03:22When I hit Sonny Liston he stayed out for the count of ten.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25Zora Folley stayed out for the count of ten.
0:03:25 > 0:03:28Cleveland Williams stayed out for the count of ten.
0:03:28 > 0:03:30What few I have knocked out stayed down.
0:03:30 > 0:03:33Sugar Ray Robinson - knocked him out for the count of 30.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36Joe Louis, Marciano, Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson, Archie Moore,
0:03:36 > 0:03:38Ezra Charles - they knock 'em out cold.
0:03:38 > 0:03:41So this man has never knocked nobody out cold.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44He's a bully, he's slow, he has no skill, no footwork,
0:03:44 > 0:03:48he's awkward, and I have given him a name.
0:03:48 > 0:03:50I named Floyd Patterson "The Rabbit",
0:03:50 > 0:03:52I named Sonny Liston "The Bear"
0:03:52 > 0:03:56and he shall be known, officially, as "The Mummy".
0:03:56 > 0:03:57The Mummy!
0:03:57 > 0:04:00LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:04:00 > 0:04:01- Why? - Why The Mummy?
0:04:01 > 0:04:04Because when he's fighting, if you ever watch him in the ring,
0:04:04 > 0:04:08he...he drags, like that, after his opponent.
0:04:08 > 0:04:10LAUGHTER
0:04:12 > 0:04:15And how is The Mummy going to catch me?
0:04:15 > 0:04:19When you're fighting a mummy, you keep a step ahead of the mummy. See?
0:04:19 > 0:04:21Just move on the mummy.
0:04:21 > 0:04:24"No, Mummy, I'm over here. No, I'm over here."
0:04:24 > 0:04:27You're moving too fast. The Mummy don't move that fast.
0:04:27 > 0:04:31Let me tell you something, David. I shall be The Mummy's Curse that day.
0:04:31 > 0:04:34Have you heard of The Mummy's Curse?
0:04:34 > 0:04:37Have I heard of The Mummy's Curse(?) I saw the movie.
0:04:37 > 0:04:38It's going to be some fight.
0:04:38 > 0:04:42The greatest fight, the greatest event of all times
0:04:42 > 0:04:45when I get to Kinshasa, Zaire, Africa.
0:04:45 > 0:04:47Two billion people will watch the fight
0:04:47 > 0:04:50and that's ten times the population of America.
0:04:50 > 0:04:53That's like a country ten times bigger than America.
0:04:53 > 0:04:56Two billion people, I found out, will fill -
0:04:56 > 0:04:59to give you an idea how many people it is -
0:04:59 > 0:05:02two billion people will fill an arena of 100,000 seats
0:05:02 > 0:05:06every night with new faces for 170 years.
0:05:06 > 0:05:08That's a great statistic.
0:05:08 > 0:05:12100,000 people every night, new faces, for 170 years.
0:05:12 > 0:05:15And I draw that crowd, not George Foreman.
0:05:15 > 0:05:19It's my beautiful looks. It's my skill. It's my...
0:05:19 > 0:05:21- Yeah. Above all, your beauty. - ..humbleness.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24Your beauty and your humbleness.
0:05:24 > 0:05:27I think, first of all, it's your humbleness and then it's your beauty.
0:05:27 > 0:05:29When you look in the mirror in the morning,
0:05:29 > 0:05:31it must be just a wonderful experience.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34I've been in the ring, David, for probably 20 years
0:05:34 > 0:05:37and I'm as pretty as you!
0:05:37 > 0:05:39And slightly fitter.
0:05:39 > 0:05:41Which round is it going to end?
0:05:41 > 0:05:43I'm not predicting a round.
0:05:43 > 0:05:46I could but it puts me on the spot,
0:05:46 > 0:05:49because you worry about trying to predict a round,
0:05:49 > 0:05:52you might get him early and you call yourself carrying him to that round,
0:05:52 > 0:05:55or you might slip up and get hurt. It's too much pressure.
0:05:55 > 0:05:58I predict, David, that I'm going to out-dance him,
0:05:58 > 0:06:01I'm going to stick him, I'm going to be three times as fast,
0:06:01 > 0:06:05I'm going to punch him at will. I might not knock him out cold
0:06:05 > 0:06:08but I'll TKO him. I predict a TKO.
0:06:08 > 0:06:12I predict that the fight will be stopped on cuts or bruises
0:06:12 > 0:06:16or being humiliated. Humiliation will stop the fight.
0:06:16 > 0:06:20The referee will step in, "Stop!" because I'll just be popping at will.
0:06:20 > 0:06:24Popping and sticking and moving... I'm popping at will
0:06:24 > 0:06:27until the man will just have to stop it.
0:06:27 > 0:06:30You mean it's going to be the first World title fight ever stopped
0:06:30 > 0:06:32on the grounds of humiliation?
0:06:32 > 0:06:35No. They've stopped a few of mine for that
0:06:35 > 0:06:37and they stopped other ones,
0:06:37 > 0:06:41but I'm serious, this man has two chances -
0:06:41 > 0:06:43slim and none.
0:06:43 > 0:06:46LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:06:46 > 0:06:51The man don't stand a chance. When Muhammad Ali is in shape,
0:06:51 > 0:06:53when Muhammad Ali is dancing...
0:06:53 > 0:06:55Ken Norton broke my jaw in the first fight
0:06:55 > 0:06:58and I was flat-footed and they knew I was washed up,
0:06:58 > 0:07:0132 years old, 222lb, couldn't train no more,
0:07:01 > 0:07:04Cosell and the critics were saying, and I was finished.
0:07:04 > 0:07:07Second fight - my jaw was mended, it was going to get broken again,
0:07:07 > 0:07:10I might dance a few rounds cos I lost weight -
0:07:10 > 0:07:12I probably lost it from not eating this year -
0:07:12 > 0:07:14and 12 rounds I danced that night.
0:07:14 > 0:07:17They were counting on me cutting out in four, five,
0:07:17 > 0:07:20but I danced 12. Joe Frazier was the second fight.
0:07:20 > 0:07:23Three-and-a-half years I was off, I still beat Frazier.
0:07:23 > 0:07:25They gave him the decision, I know I beat him.
0:07:25 > 0:07:29Three years later, which means I'm six-and-a-half years on
0:07:29 > 0:07:31from the day they took my title...
0:07:31 > 0:07:33I was considered over the hill when they took the title.
0:07:33 > 0:07:38Six-and-a-half years from that day, I danced 12 rounds with Joe Frazier.
0:07:38 > 0:07:40They figured I'd stop dancing in seven, eight, maybe,
0:07:40 > 0:07:43and Joe will find relentless pressure, body punches, attack me,
0:07:43 > 0:07:46I'll pull out and he'll beat me.
0:07:46 > 0:07:47But I danced for 12,
0:07:47 > 0:07:49so that was my last fight.
0:07:49 > 0:07:53People were talking about...my legs are going, he's going to get me...
0:07:53 > 0:07:56What gives them the idea, what gives them the reason to say
0:07:56 > 0:07:59I'm going to stop dancing in two or three rounds
0:07:59 > 0:08:02when I just got through dancing 12 with Frazier?
0:08:02 > 0:08:04I'm going to be ready to dance 20 this time!
0:08:04 > 0:08:06The man is in trouble.
0:08:06 > 0:08:09- The man is in trouble? - He's got problems.
0:08:09 > 0:08:10He's got problems.
0:08:10 > 0:08:14Apart from wrestling with an alligator,
0:08:14 > 0:08:17in addition to that, have you done anything special this time? Diet?
0:08:17 > 0:08:21It's not just boxers. Any athlete, you have to refrain from anything
0:08:21 > 0:08:23that is bad for his health.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26- Right. - Especially when you have
0:08:26 > 0:08:29a strenuous sport - football, basketball, baseball,
0:08:29 > 0:08:32wrestling - anything that takes stamina is hard
0:08:32 > 0:08:35and anybody watching this evening, and you yourself,
0:08:35 > 0:08:38you get up and jump around, man or woman,
0:08:38 > 0:08:41scuffle with somebody, wrestle with them for about three minutes
0:08:41 > 0:08:45and watch how tired you get. Serious wrestling in competition
0:08:45 > 0:08:49is tiresome. And for 15 rounds before 150,000 people,
0:08:49 > 0:08:52knowing two billion people are watching, takes a lot out of you.
0:08:52 > 0:08:56And then you've got the world's greatest fighter,
0:08:56 > 0:08:59one of the world's best, taking punches at your face,
0:08:59 > 0:09:02your body, and little hard gloves on and everything's at stake -
0:09:02 > 0:09:06your future, your life, your family, investments, everything's at stake -
0:09:06 > 0:09:10this worries you and the pressure and the excitement and the drama...
0:09:10 > 0:09:12Even people who come to fights are nervous,
0:09:12 > 0:09:14and many of the fans here, and yourself,
0:09:14 > 0:09:17the night you go to the fight, although you're not involved,
0:09:17 > 0:09:20you'll be nervous, just waiting for the bell to ring.
0:09:20 > 0:09:23Finally, these two men are going to clash! Who's going to win?!
0:09:23 > 0:09:25Muhammad Ali or George Foreman?
0:09:25 > 0:09:28Both of them are great, one's going to fall. Somebody's got to leave.
0:09:28 > 0:09:30- AUDIENCE MEMBER: You're... - And you're excited.
0:09:30 > 0:09:33You're not as dumb as you look, fella.
0:09:33 > 0:09:35LAUGHTER
0:09:35 > 0:09:38In what way is Allah... You mentioned Allah.
0:09:38 > 0:09:41What way is Allah different from, for instance, the God I believe in?
0:09:41 > 0:09:43In what way is he different?
0:09:43 > 0:09:45Is he more of a man or...
0:09:45 > 0:09:47Allah is a man,
0:09:47 > 0:09:50where your God probably is a spirit.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53Something that you can't see
0:09:53 > 0:09:56and he's formless, somewhere floating around,
0:09:56 > 0:09:58- whereas Allah is on Earth. - Is he?
0:09:58 > 0:10:02He's a man. That's why you say God created Man in his own image.
0:10:02 > 0:10:05If I make a chair in the image or likeness
0:10:05 > 0:10:07of that chair you're sitting in, it'll look like that chair.
0:10:07 > 0:10:10So if God made us in his image, you're telling me God's a man.
0:10:10 > 0:10:13He looks like us and you refer to God as "Him", right?
0:10:13 > 0:10:16- He is... - Hmm.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19He. Whether it's a cat, rat or dog,
0:10:19 > 0:10:23anything of a male sex, you refer to it as him, his or he.
0:10:23 > 0:10:25So if God is a spirit and a spook,
0:10:25 > 0:10:28why do you keep saying he, him and his?
0:10:28 > 0:10:31So we teach that God is on Earth.
0:10:31 > 0:10:35He's a supreme being. You're a human being, he's a being too
0:10:35 > 0:10:38but he's supreme over the other beings,
0:10:38 > 0:10:40so if you take even the Christian teaching
0:10:40 > 0:10:42and check it out scientifically,
0:10:42 > 0:10:44you keep telling me God's a man,
0:10:44 > 0:10:47but when I ask you, "Where is he?" "Well, he's a spirit,
0:10:47 > 0:10:49"he's the air, he's everywhere." You keep saying "he".
0:10:49 > 0:10:53If God wasn't a man, you would call God "it", of a thing.
0:10:53 > 0:10:56So you call God "Him, he". God's a man.
0:10:56 > 0:10:58What's greater than a man?
0:10:58 > 0:11:01If you make God not a man, you make him less than a man.
0:11:01 > 0:11:03What's greater than a man?
0:11:03 > 0:11:05There ain't nothing greater than a man.
0:11:05 > 0:11:08Helen Reddy says we ought to call God "she".
0:11:08 > 0:11:09Could God be a woman?
0:11:09 > 0:11:13Well, this is real bad to even think like this.
0:11:13 > 0:11:15I wouldn't want to...
0:11:15 > 0:11:17I wouldn't answer that question.
0:11:17 > 0:11:22But I will tell you something. Once I heard a fellow wise man say once,
0:11:22 > 0:11:26he said, "God made man in HIS own image,
0:11:26 > 0:11:30"but man made God in his own likeness." Got that?
0:11:30 > 0:11:33Man made God in HIS image,
0:11:33 > 0:11:36but man turned around and made God in his likeness.
0:11:36 > 0:11:39Some make him a cow, some make him a statue,
0:11:39 > 0:11:42this woman wants to make God a woman.
0:11:42 > 0:11:44So, God made us in HIS image.
0:11:44 > 0:11:47Now, who are we to make him the way we want him?
0:11:47 > 0:11:50He made us. Are we going to turn around and make him? That's silly.
0:11:50 > 0:11:52Do you pray to your God, to Allah?
0:11:52 > 0:11:54I pray every morning at five o'clock.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57My clock rings at four-thirty, I'm up at five,
0:11:57 > 0:12:01I take a shower and I'll put my white robe on,
0:12:01 > 0:12:03I put a towel on the floor
0:12:03 > 0:12:06and I face the east, towards Mecca,
0:12:06 > 0:12:09and we say, "Surely I have turned myself to thee, oh Allah,
0:12:09 > 0:12:15"trying to be upright to him who has originated the heavens and the Earth,
0:12:15 > 0:12:17"and I am not of the polytheists.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20"Surely my prayers, my sacrifices, my life and my death
0:12:20 > 0:12:23"are all for Allah, the Lord of all the worlds.
0:12:23 > 0:12:25"No associate has he,
0:12:25 > 0:12:27"this am I commanded.
0:12:27 > 0:12:29"I am of those who submit.
0:12:29 > 0:12:31"Oh Allah, thou art the King.
0:12:31 > 0:12:34"Thou art my Lord and I am thine servant.
0:12:34 > 0:12:36"I have been greatly unjust to myself
0:12:36 > 0:12:38"and I do confess my faults,
0:12:38 > 0:12:42"so please grant me protection against all my faults,
0:12:42 > 0:12:46"for none grants protection against faults but thou
0:12:46 > 0:12:48"and to lead me to the best of morals
0:12:48 > 0:12:53"for none can turn away from me the worst of morals but thee.
0:12:53 > 0:12:55"And guide me to the best of morals
0:12:55 > 0:12:58"for none can guide to the best of morals but thee.
0:12:58 > 0:13:02"Oh Allah, make the Honourable Elijah Muhammad successful
0:13:02 > 0:13:05"and make the followers of Muhammad successful
0:13:05 > 0:13:07"here in the wilderness of North America
0:13:07 > 0:13:11"as thou didst make Abraham and the followers of Abraham successful
0:13:11 > 0:13:15"for surely thou art praised and magnified in our midst.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18"Allah bless Muhammad and bless the followers of Muhammad
0:13:18 > 0:13:20"here in the wilderness of North America
0:13:20 > 0:13:24"as thou didst bless Abraham and the followers of Abraham
0:13:24 > 0:13:27"for surely thou art praised and magnified in our midst."
0:13:27 > 0:13:30And ain't nothing more beautiful than getting up in the morning,
0:13:30 > 0:13:32brushing your teeth, washing out your mouth,
0:13:32 > 0:13:35taking the sin and evil out that you've gotten from this world,
0:13:35 > 0:13:38comb your hair, wash the dirt out of your hair,
0:13:38 > 0:13:40clean your ears, all parts of your body,
0:13:40 > 0:13:43put a clean white robe on, don't even stand on the dirty floor,
0:13:43 > 0:13:45stand on the towel, no shoes on,
0:13:45 > 0:13:48facing the east, asking the originator of the universe
0:13:48 > 0:13:51to make me better, make me stronger,
0:13:51 > 0:13:54give me more power. This is done five times a day
0:13:54 > 0:13:59when I can, especially when I go to bed, another bath, another shower,
0:13:59 > 0:14:02clean my mouth, pray, and at five in the morning,
0:14:02 > 0:14:06this goes on when I'm right. I didn't do that for the first Frazier fight
0:14:06 > 0:14:09nor the first Norton fight.
0:14:09 > 0:14:11- Really? - No, sir.
0:14:11 > 0:14:14My head got big and I started thinking it was my training camp
0:14:14 > 0:14:17and my boxing ability that kept me well, and God punished me
0:14:17 > 0:14:21and he gave me a good whupping, he broke my jaw in the second fight
0:14:21 > 0:14:23and he got me whooped and knocked down in the Frazier fight
0:14:23 > 0:14:26and I realised I wasn't that great after all,
0:14:26 > 0:14:29so I had to get together not only physically but spiritually.
0:14:29 > 0:14:32For this fight, I prayed every day for five days,
0:14:32 > 0:14:35five times a day for the past, um, four months,
0:14:35 > 0:14:38and everything is perfect
0:14:38 > 0:14:40and if Allah is with me,
0:14:40 > 0:14:43it ain't no way no man can win, no way!
0:14:43 > 0:14:48When I got Allah and Elijah Muhammad, can't no human being win.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51There's no way. No way.
0:14:51 > 0:14:53Cos I'm representing God.
0:14:53 > 0:14:56I'm representing the freedom of black people in America.
0:14:56 > 0:15:00I want to be the one black man who stands up and looks at white people
0:15:00 > 0:15:02and tell the truth, who don't sell them out,
0:15:02 > 0:15:04who don't Uncle Tom, who don't promote cigarettes,
0:15:04 > 0:15:06don't promote whisky,
0:15:06 > 0:15:09take his fame to uplift his little brother in the ghetto
0:15:09 > 0:15:12because all the other movie stars and all the other people that you know,
0:15:12 > 0:15:16like Diahann Carroll, one you know, they all want to marry a white,
0:15:16 > 0:15:18and they don't think black
0:15:18 > 0:15:21and on down the line, there's many more I can name.
0:15:21 > 0:15:23Make movies hugging on white women.
0:15:23 > 0:15:26They get their fame and they leave their little people,
0:15:26 > 0:15:28so I'm asking God, Allah, to make me strong,
0:15:28 > 0:15:30not for me, don't give me no money,
0:15:30 > 0:15:33don't give me the fame. I want to win so I can come home
0:15:33 > 0:15:36and speak for the brother who's living in rat-infested houses,
0:15:36 > 0:15:38sleeping on concrete in the ghetto,
0:15:38 > 0:15:40can't go on television and speak,
0:15:40 > 0:15:44so God, I'm your tool, I'm your servant, let me get this man tonight,
0:15:44 > 0:15:47and go out blasting.
0:15:47 > 0:15:48That's the way I think.
0:15:48 > 0:15:51That's... That is an incredible speech.
0:15:51 > 0:15:54What you do for black pride is absolutely incredible.
0:15:54 > 0:15:56- This is the way I feel. - Yeah.
0:15:56 > 0:15:59- And what you do for black pride... - I'm not fighting for me,
0:15:59 > 0:16:01I'm looking at George Foreman, I'm looking at the Establishment,
0:16:01 > 0:16:04the flag-waver. If he wins,
0:16:04 > 0:16:07I'm thinking - which is not true - but if he wins,
0:16:07 > 0:16:09we're enslaved for 300 more years.
0:16:09 > 0:16:12If I win, we're free.
0:16:12 > 0:16:14I'm not Foreman, you know that?
0:16:14 > 0:16:16LAUGHTER
0:16:16 > 0:16:19When I see Foreman, I don't see a black man. I see you.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22- Yeah. - I see... I see the White House.
0:16:22 > 0:16:24LAUGHTER
0:16:24 > 0:16:26I'm not the White House, either!
0:16:26 > 0:16:28I see something white!
0:16:28 > 0:16:31LAUGHTER
0:16:31 > 0:16:32I don't know what...
0:16:32 > 0:16:35APPLAUSE
0:16:35 > 0:16:37HE PANTS
0:16:37 > 0:16:38I'm fighting.
0:16:40 > 0:16:42I'm fighting slavery!
0:16:42 > 0:16:44I want to be free.
0:16:44 > 0:16:47- That's what I'm fighting. - OK, you can be free.
0:16:47 > 0:16:48You persuaded me.
0:16:48 > 0:16:51- You do a fantastic... - It's the way I think.
0:16:51 > 0:16:52I just don't be fighting.
0:16:52 > 0:16:55I've got to get my mind like this, see?
0:16:55 > 0:16:57I'm bucking so many odds, and a bad man,
0:16:57 > 0:17:00so too much for me to handle.
0:17:00 > 0:17:03I've got to call on the supreme being to step in, to intervene.
0:17:03 > 0:17:06The same with the Liston fight, I did a lot of praying.
0:17:06 > 0:17:09And same with the draft, the same with the second Norton fight,
0:17:09 > 0:17:12the second Frazier fight. Divine power came in.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15If you watched the last round of Norton, the last round of Frazier,
0:17:15 > 0:17:19you find that if I lost the last round with Frazier in this fight,
0:17:19 > 0:17:22I would've lost the fight. If I lost the last round of the Norton fight,
0:17:22 > 0:17:25I lost the fight. Those two fights,
0:17:25 > 0:17:28I got a supreme power from the supreme being.
0:17:28 > 0:17:32I started dancing, I started moving and anybody that watched that fight
0:17:32 > 0:17:34don't know how Muhammad Ali came back in them rounds
0:17:34 > 0:17:38cos I prayed to heaven and I relied on Allah and I DANCED!
0:17:38 > 0:17:41I DANCED! I was sticking and dancing.
0:17:41 > 0:17:43I was eating Frazier up in that last round.
0:17:43 > 0:17:46Ken Norton - came back after a broken jaw, dancing.
0:17:46 > 0:17:49He was fast, and I was faster.
0:17:49 > 0:17:52So this fight - I'm calling on all everything.
0:17:52 > 0:17:55Not only my physical ability but all over.
0:17:55 > 0:17:57The supreme being, Allah.
0:17:57 > 0:18:00I'm working for him. I'm going into this fight
0:18:00 > 0:18:04as the servant of Allah, who is the teacher of Elijah Muhammad
0:18:04 > 0:18:06who's here to free black people
0:18:06 > 0:18:09and get them something that they can call their own
0:18:09 > 0:18:12and that's why I'm going in his name, Elijah Muhammad,
0:18:12 > 0:18:15and in God's name, to take this title,
0:18:15 > 0:18:17to help influence and wake up my people and unite them
0:18:17 > 0:18:19and clean them up.
0:18:19 > 0:18:21Nobody else is doing it, nobody else big is doing it,
0:18:21 > 0:18:23so this, for me, is a holy war.
0:18:23 > 0:18:26This ain't just no fight with George Foreman,
0:18:26 > 0:18:29but I'm fighting for the freedom and equality
0:18:29 > 0:18:30of the black man of America,
0:18:30 > 0:18:33and I'm fighting the opposer and the Uncle Tom
0:18:33 > 0:18:35who is out to keep us down.
0:18:35 > 0:18:36George Foreman win the fight,
0:18:36 > 0:18:39he might make a movie hugging a blonde next week.
0:18:39 > 0:18:40I don't know what he might do.
0:18:40 > 0:18:43He might take that fame and lead our people wrong.
0:18:43 > 0:18:46If I make a move, I'd have to hug a sister.
0:18:46 > 0:18:47So I have to hug my own.
0:18:47 > 0:18:50So I'm going in, "This is spiritual.
0:18:50 > 0:18:52"This ain't no fight no more. This ain't no sport no more."
0:18:52 > 0:18:55As one man have on the New Times magazine, called New Times, says -
0:18:55 > 0:18:58headline: "Can Allah Save Ali?"
0:18:58 > 0:19:00They know it's divine too.
0:19:00 > 0:19:02"Can Allah Save Ali?"
0:19:02 > 0:19:06But, I mean, the thing is that obviously the first thing
0:19:06 > 0:19:08that's got to happen is that... DAVID LAUGHS
0:19:08 > 0:19:10Is that there's black pride, right?
0:19:10 > 0:19:13And that you are giving black people all over the world a pride and
0:19:13 > 0:19:16a self-respect that through Allah and so on, they've never had before.
0:19:16 > 0:19:18Not me. Not me, I'm representing the man who is.
0:19:18 > 0:19:20But what about stage two of this?
0:19:20 > 0:19:21What about stage two -
0:19:21 > 0:19:23you were talking about hugging a blonde and so on -
0:19:23 > 0:19:25what about stage two of it?
0:19:25 > 0:19:28How do blacks and white... When blacks have their self-respect,
0:19:28 > 0:19:29how do blacks and whites get together?
0:19:29 > 0:19:32Cos if they don't get together and live together,
0:19:32 > 0:19:34- we ain't got no world. - Get together... Get together how?
0:19:34 > 0:19:37Well, how do we live together, how do blacks and whites
0:19:37 > 0:19:39live together in peace and get together?
0:19:39 > 0:19:41Well, number one, the black man wants to become independent
0:19:41 > 0:19:44and if he's got something of his own, then you can respect one another.
0:19:44 > 0:19:47You can't respect a man always in your house begging.
0:19:47 > 0:19:49You're feeding him, you're clothing him,
0:19:49 > 0:19:51always around you begging - don't do nothing for himself.
0:19:51 > 0:19:54America must help the slave to go for himself
0:19:54 > 0:19:58and Elijah Muhammad says the honest way we can get together
0:19:58 > 0:20:02is to let the slave live to himself, govern himself, marry yourself,
0:20:02 > 0:20:06rule himself, build for himself and educate himself
0:20:06 > 0:20:08on some land of his own.
0:20:08 > 0:20:12Total separation of the races is what we believe is the solution
0:20:12 > 0:20:13to our problem.
0:20:13 > 0:20:16A black man on his own land building for self.
0:20:16 > 0:20:20Everybody has a nation, but the Negroes in America.
0:20:20 > 0:20:22- But... - Everybody has a nation.
0:20:22 > 0:20:25This is a bold statement, but nobody else can say this,
0:20:25 > 0:20:29everybody has their own country and land but the Negroes in America.
0:20:29 > 0:20:32You're from England. You don't like it over, you can go back home.
0:20:32 > 0:20:35There's a Nigerian out there, he don't like it, he can go back home.
0:20:35 > 0:20:38Oh, there's a Mexican out there, he don't like it, he can go back home.
0:20:38 > 0:20:40Oh, there's a Puerto Rican out there, he go back home.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43Where do we call home? Do you know where my home is? Where...
0:20:43 > 0:20:46Chinese are named after China. Cubans are named after Cuba.
0:20:46 > 0:20:49Pakistanis named after Pakistan. Russians named after Russia.
0:20:49 > 0:20:52Australians after Australia. Englishmen after England.
0:20:52 > 0:20:54What country named Negroes?
0:20:55 > 0:20:57- Well... - Why are we called Negroes?
0:20:57 > 0:20:58Well, there's obviously...
0:20:58 > 0:21:00So the honest way we goin' get together
0:21:00 > 0:21:02is for us to get a knowledge of ourselves.
0:21:02 > 0:21:04Africans, I guess, is the word for Negro, isn't it?
0:21:04 > 0:21:06No.
0:21:06 > 0:21:09- Africans are named after Africa. - Africa should be for the Africans.
0:21:09 > 0:21:11What I'm trying to say to you is this - the honest way we goin'
0:21:11 > 0:21:13to get together is for us to get a knowledge of ourselves.
0:21:13 > 0:21:15We don't want to get together with white people,
0:21:15 > 0:21:17we got to get together first.
0:21:17 > 0:21:21See, for one to be with one, I gotta be one. We are not yet one.
0:21:21 > 0:21:25You have a leader, everybody's got... Somebody represents England.
0:21:25 > 0:21:28Ford represents America. Sadat represents Egypt.
0:21:28 > 0:21:33Hussein represents Jordan. Ms So-and-so represents Israel...
0:21:33 > 0:21:35Uh, now, who represent us?
0:21:35 > 0:21:38Black people have a meeting, 64 leaders show up.
0:21:38 > 0:21:40See, we not one, we too divided.
0:21:40 > 0:21:42And after we quit cutting each other, pulling each other down,
0:21:42 > 0:21:46fighting, disrespecting each other, cleaning up self, respect self,
0:21:46 > 0:21:47gang wars and all kinds of problems,
0:21:47 > 0:21:50after we unite, then if there's any love left,
0:21:50 > 0:21:52then we love somebody else.
0:21:52 > 0:21:54But first, WE gotta unite.
0:21:54 > 0:21:57So, ain't no such thing as, "How do we get together?"
0:21:57 > 0:22:00WE gotta get together first and then you ask me that question.
0:22:00 > 0:22:03- All right. How long will it take? - We not together.
0:22:03 > 0:22:05How long will it take for you all to get together?
0:22:05 > 0:22:08As soon as the black people all get behind Elijah Muhammad
0:22:08 > 0:22:09they'll be together.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12Only's one man getting black people together and that's Elijah Muhammad,
0:22:12 > 0:22:15the man that white people and the Government don't talk about.
0:22:15 > 0:22:18They fear him and don't give him no press and don't want nobody
0:22:18 > 0:22:22to hear him, cos once you hear him - if you black - you never the same.
0:22:22 > 0:22:24But what about other black leaders like Martin Luther King,
0:22:24 > 0:22:27the Reverend Jesse Jackson and black leaders around the world as well -
0:22:27 > 0:22:30Do you respect what they're doing too? Kenneth Cowan...
0:22:30 > 0:22:32Not what they're doing, not what they're doing.
0:22:32 > 0:22:36Jesse Jackson's a crook. He steals everything Elijah Muhammad's got.
0:22:36 > 0:22:39Everything he do is Elijah Muhammad's programme
0:22:39 > 0:22:41but with another title on it. See?
0:22:41 > 0:22:44And Martin Luther King, his goal was to walk down the street
0:22:44 > 0:22:47one day with a white girl, we don't call that progress.
0:22:47 > 0:22:49No white woman watching this show or no white man
0:22:49 > 0:22:53in his or her right mind, white mind, want black boys and black girls
0:22:53 > 0:22:55marrying their white sons and daughters,
0:22:55 > 0:22:57in return introducing their grandchildren
0:22:57 > 0:22:59as half-brown kinky-haired Negroes.
0:22:59 > 0:23:01- They don't want it. And... - Why not?
0:23:01 > 0:23:03Why not? You know why not.
0:23:03 > 0:23:06Nobody else... And I'll tell you somethin' else, why not? For what?
0:23:06 > 0:23:08Every man likes a son who look like himself.
0:23:08 > 0:23:11I love my little boy and my wife, pretty brown girl, look like me.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14I love my daughters, I don't want no blond-headed, green-headed daughters.
0:23:14 > 0:23:16No, but no. But surely, no, everybody wants a child...
0:23:16 > 0:23:17That looks like himself.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20No, everyone wants a child that looks like the combination
0:23:20 > 0:23:22of himself and the woman he loves, and therefore
0:23:22 > 0:23:25if the combination comes out coffee, what's wrong with that?
0:23:25 > 0:23:29No, I tell you what, the integrated couples don't make it.
0:23:29 > 0:23:31I can name them all week, they just don't make it
0:23:31 > 0:23:33and the world's against it, God's against it.
0:23:33 > 0:23:35It ain't because we hate each other...
0:23:37 > 0:23:41Bluebirds and redbirds are both birds but they don't get along.
0:23:41 > 0:23:44Pigeons and eagles don't fly together, the buzzards,
0:23:44 > 0:23:46everything hangs out with its own.
0:23:46 > 0:23:49White people...culture's different from black people.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52Puerto Ricans and Indonesians cannot integrate.
0:23:52 > 0:23:54Egyptians and Germans cannot integrate.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57Australians and Mexicans cannot integrate.
0:23:57 > 0:24:01They have different foods, they have different music, different cultures.
0:24:01 > 0:24:02See, you white and I'm black.
0:24:02 > 0:24:05If white people have a party tonight and black people have a party,
0:24:05 > 0:24:08the party will be 100% different, the music...
0:24:08 > 0:24:11I go to a white restaurant, we integrate their way.
0:24:11 > 0:24:12You go into a white restaurant,
0:24:12 > 0:24:15you gotta look all day on the jukebox to find some music...
0:24:15 > 0:24:16- No, no, no. - ..that I want to hear.
0:24:16 > 0:24:18At our party we'll have Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder...
0:24:18 > 0:24:20Hold it now, let me tell you, let me tell you now.
0:24:20 > 0:24:22If I go play a jukebox in a white restaurant,
0:24:22 > 0:24:24anybody black'll tell ya in there,
0:24:24 > 0:24:27you got to look all over that box for some black music.
0:24:27 > 0:24:29Hank Snow...
0:24:29 > 0:24:32- Johnny Cash... - Josh White.
0:24:32 > 0:24:35All kind of names I ain't never heard of. You know...
0:24:35 > 0:24:38# When that train comes around the mountain... #
0:24:38 > 0:24:39Choo-choo!
0:24:39 > 0:24:42# When that train, train, train, train comes
0:24:42 > 0:24:44# And the truck driver... #
0:24:44 > 0:24:48So what I'm saying is...ain't nothing wrong with that music,
0:24:48 > 0:24:51but that fits the white culture. You go into our joints...
0:24:51 > 0:24:53# Oh, baby, don't leave... #
0:24:53 > 0:24:55LAUGHTER
0:24:55 > 0:24:57# Oh, I cried all night
0:24:57 > 0:25:01# Who's that running out of my back door, honey
0:25:01 > 0:25:03# Ooh-ooh. #
0:25:03 > 0:25:04See, those our problems.
0:25:04 > 0:25:06Then I go to a Chinese restaurant -
0:25:06 > 0:25:10# Pwing ting tang tong tonne ting... #
0:25:10 > 0:25:13So, we can't integrate. We ain't gonna never have no peace.
0:25:13 > 0:25:15The culture, the nature's different.
0:25:15 > 0:25:17I don't hate you, we can eat in your restaurant.
0:25:17 > 0:25:20If we want to marry your women, we got your women now.
0:25:20 > 0:25:23There ain't nothing we can't do today, but these things the dog got.
0:25:23 > 0:25:26I see dogs on television eating out the same plate with white people.
0:25:26 > 0:25:30I see dogs on the buses and they do everything with the dogs,
0:25:30 > 0:25:32so I ain't getting nothing the dog ain't got.
0:25:32 > 0:25:36So, really, ain't nothing in this integration, I need some land,
0:25:36 > 0:25:39I need some jobs, my people need jobs, we need something
0:25:39 > 0:25:44so we can build and do for ourselves and we must have some land.
0:25:44 > 0:25:4540 million people - you know,
0:25:45 > 0:25:47that's a lot of Negroes just in New York, in Cleveland,
0:25:47 > 0:25:50Baltimore, Washington, California, that's a lot of black...
0:25:50 > 0:25:52- 40 million? 20 million, isn't it? - Whoo, that's a whole nation.
0:25:52 > 0:25:5540 million, man. They don't tell you the truth about that. They want us
0:25:55 > 0:25:57- to stop having babies... - I thought it was 20 million.
0:25:57 > 0:25:59They're paying black women not to have babies...
0:25:59 > 0:26:00It's 40 million, not 20 million?
0:26:00 > 0:26:02Yeah, they're paying black women not to have babies now,
0:26:02 > 0:26:04they've got all kind of plans to stop our race.
0:26:04 > 0:26:07Everyone's getting into birth control, not just blacks.
0:26:07 > 0:26:09So when we know all of this, so now a man with my knowledge,
0:26:09 > 0:26:12what can you tell a man like me now? What's your suggestion?
0:26:12 > 0:26:14Ask you a question.
0:26:14 > 0:26:16OK, you're talking to me, not a dumb Negro,
0:26:16 > 0:26:19or pork chop eater who don't know the truth, I'm free now, I woke up.
0:26:19 > 0:26:21Now, what are you going to tell me now?
0:26:21 > 0:26:23I done gave you my solutions, some land of my own,
0:26:23 > 0:26:26doing something for myself like you, England and America do.
0:26:26 > 0:26:29Now, I know you're not against the black man,
0:26:29 > 0:26:31I know you're not against me having my land, are you?
0:26:31 > 0:26:32Not at all.
0:26:32 > 0:26:34I know you English ruled and slaved for ever,
0:26:34 > 0:26:37for a long time, but do you still today don't want me
0:26:37 > 0:26:40to have my own country and build for myself and govern myself?
0:26:40 > 0:26:42Would you think that's bad if we felt like that?
0:26:42 > 0:26:43I think...
0:26:43 > 0:26:45What's your solution to my problem?
0:26:45 > 0:26:501974, the white man just flew from New York to England in an hour,
0:26:50 > 0:26:51less than two hours.
0:26:51 > 0:26:55You all saw progress if you're walking around on other planets.
0:26:55 > 0:26:58Now, today, I'm intelligent too now, what do you...
0:26:58 > 0:27:02What's your suggestion, what should be my movement - integrate?
0:27:02 > 0:27:04Yeah, equal rights in a mixed society.
0:27:04 > 0:27:07In this society where you still own the government,
0:27:07 > 0:27:08you still own the train station,
0:27:08 > 0:27:12the railroad plant, the lecture plant, these television cameras.
0:27:12 > 0:27:14You still make all the food, you control everything
0:27:14 > 0:27:16and I'm like a leech on a dog's back -
0:27:16 > 0:27:17all I can do is just wait for you.
0:27:17 > 0:27:19I can't do nothing for myself.
0:27:19 > 0:27:21Integrating into your society don't mean
0:27:21 > 0:27:23I'm doing nothing for myself, you're doing it all.
0:27:23 > 0:27:26I want to do something for myself, I'm tired of depending on you.
0:27:26 > 0:27:27You might get broke one day.
0:27:27 > 0:27:30Your stores might close, your gas pumps might cut off again.
0:27:30 > 0:27:33I'm relying on you now. Can I have my own land and country?
0:27:33 > 0:27:36Well, you've got your own freedom here, for instance.
0:27:36 > 0:27:38I know you're luckier than many black people in America,
0:27:38 > 0:27:39but you're your own boss.
0:27:39 > 0:27:41- I'm speaking for my nation. - I know, I appreciate that.
0:27:41 > 0:27:43If I was representing just me,
0:27:43 > 0:27:45I wouldn't be talking like this cos I got it made.
0:27:45 > 0:27:46I'm talking for my brothers...
0:27:46 > 0:27:48But I just don't see how, Muhammad...
0:27:48 > 0:27:49You don't see how?
0:27:49 > 0:27:52I don't see how you can slice up America into bits
0:27:52 > 0:27:55and get all the whites in one area and all the blacks in another.
0:27:55 > 0:27:57Well, we leave then. We leave.
0:27:57 > 0:28:00- But they'd miss you. - I know it.
0:28:01 > 0:28:05Is this definitely, whatever happens, your last fight?
0:28:05 > 0:28:07- My last. This is the last... - Win or lose, it's your...
0:28:07 > 0:28:11Ain't no such thing as lose, this is the last of Muhammad Ali,
0:28:11 > 0:28:14so enjoy the fight, get to the theatre
0:28:14 > 0:28:17and see perpetual motion in action.
0:28:17 > 0:28:20The most scientific, the most creative, the most artistic...
0:28:20 > 0:28:23I'm an era, I'm not just boxing.
0:28:23 > 0:28:26This is an era going out, the most talked about,
0:28:26 > 0:28:28the most colourful, the most wisest mentally,
0:28:28 > 0:28:31the most controversial, the boldest, the most courageous,
0:28:31 > 0:28:34the greatest fighter, the best looking physically...
0:28:34 > 0:28:35- The most humble! - ..of all times,
0:28:35 > 0:28:39this will be the last rumble, and I invite all of you
0:28:39 > 0:28:42to be there among those of us who dare to dare.
0:28:42 > 0:28:44To dare to dare to dare.
0:28:44 > 0:28:48And when one day you die, and you appear before Allah...
0:28:48 > 0:28:50We don't die, we don't go nowhere when we die.
0:28:50 > 0:28:52The Islamic teaching's different to Christianity.
0:28:52 > 0:28:55When you die, you're dead, you don't go nowhere.
0:28:55 > 0:28:57- You don't go nowhere? - Where you going to go?
0:28:57 > 0:28:58Look, I'll prove to you...
0:28:58 > 0:29:01You go dig up some graves that died 200 years ago,
0:29:01 > 0:29:02I bet you the bones are still there.
0:29:02 > 0:29:05They don't go nowhere, they ain't no people going nowhere.
0:29:05 > 0:29:06"The dead rise and see the light" -
0:29:06 > 0:29:09that meant the people who were mentally dead
0:29:09 > 0:29:10and you're looking at one now.
0:29:10 > 0:29:13I was once a Christian, I was once a Clay, a Negro.
0:29:13 > 0:29:15Before I heard Elijah Muhammad, I couldn't talk to you.
0:29:15 > 0:29:16I couldn't open my mouth.
0:29:16 > 0:29:19See, he makes the lame speak, makes the blind see,
0:29:19 > 0:29:22makes the lame walk, makes the deaf talk. See, that's Elijah Muhammad.
0:29:22 > 0:29:26We are those who were dead for four, three days, mean 300 years,
0:29:26 > 0:29:28that was a parable, you didn't understand it.
0:29:28 > 0:29:29There no dead man get up and rise
0:29:29 > 0:29:31and there ain't no dead man going to rise.
0:29:31 > 0:29:32The mentally dead will rise.
0:29:32 > 0:29:34When I'm dead, that's it, my son will carry on,
0:29:34 > 0:29:37but you really don't believe that and once you hear the truth,
0:29:37 > 0:29:41you don't want no pie up in the sky after you die, you want
0:29:41 > 0:29:43something solid while you're still around here on the ground.
0:29:43 > 0:29:45LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:29:51 > 0:29:54I was going to ask you if you got any poems for our audience
0:29:54 > 0:29:56and you've given us one just ad-libbed.
0:29:56 > 0:29:57Yeah, I don't...
0:29:57 > 0:29:59I wrote something once and it's titled Truth.
0:29:59 > 0:30:02It explains what I'm saying now, you could probably close on this.
0:30:02 > 0:30:05It says, The face of truth is open
0:30:05 > 0:30:08The eyes of truth are bright
0:30:08 > 0:30:10The lips of truth are ever closed
0:30:10 > 0:30:12And the head of truth is upright
0:30:12 > 0:30:15The breast of truth stands forward
0:30:15 > 0:30:17The gaze of truth is straight
0:30:17 > 0:30:20Truth has neither fear nor doubt
0:30:20 > 0:30:22Truth has patience to wait
0:30:22 > 0:30:25The words of truth are touching
0:30:25 > 0:30:27The voice of truth is deep
0:30:27 > 0:30:29The law of truth is simple -
0:30:29 > 0:30:31All you sow, you reap
0:30:31 > 0:30:33The soul of truth is flaming
0:30:33 > 0:30:35The heart of truth is warm
0:30:35 > 0:30:37The mind of truth is clear
0:30:37 > 0:30:39And firm through rain and storm
0:30:39 > 0:30:41Facts are only its shadow
0:30:41 > 0:30:43Truth stands above all sin
0:30:43 > 0:30:45Great be the battle of life
0:30:45 > 0:30:47Truth in the end shall win
0:30:47 > 0:30:50The image of truth is Elijah Muhammad
0:30:50 > 0:30:52Wisdom's message is his rod
0:30:52 > 0:30:54The sign of truth is the crescent
0:30:54 > 0:30:56And the soul of truth is God
0:30:56 > 0:30:58A life of truth is eternal
0:30:58 > 0:31:01Immortal is its past
0:31:01 > 0:31:03Power of truth shall endure
0:31:03 > 0:31:05Truth shall hold to the last.
0:31:05 > 0:31:06One last question.
0:31:06 > 0:31:09At the end of your life, whether it was Allah who was saying it,
0:31:09 > 0:31:11Elijah Muhammad,
0:31:11 > 0:31:14or whether it was something that someone wrote about you after
0:31:14 > 0:31:16you had gone, what's the thing you would most like people
0:31:16 > 0:31:20to say about your life - he was a great champion, or what?
0:31:20 > 0:31:22What would you like people to think about you when you've gone?
0:31:22 > 0:31:27I'd like for them to say, "He took a few cups of love,
0:31:27 > 0:31:30"he took one tablespoon of patience,
0:31:30 > 0:31:34"one tablespoon...teaspoon of generosity,
0:31:34 > 0:31:36"one pint of kindness,
0:31:36 > 0:31:40"he took one quart of laughter, one pinch of concern
0:31:40 > 0:31:43"and then he mixed willingness with happiness,
0:31:43 > 0:31:46"he added lots of faith, and he stirred it up well.
0:31:46 > 0:31:49"Then he spread it over the span of a lifetime
0:31:49 > 0:31:52"and he served it to each and every deserving person he met."
0:31:52 > 0:31:55Muhammad Ali, thank you very much.
0:31:55 > 0:31:56All right.
0:31:56 > 0:31:57APPLAUSE