0:00:02 > 0:00:04Families can be driven apart for all manner of reasons.
0:00:04 > 0:00:07I had no information at all about where my mum went.
0:00:07 > 0:00:10And when you do lose touch with your loved ones...
0:00:10 > 0:00:12You don't know who you are, where have you come from.
0:00:12 > 0:00:15..finding them can take a lifetime.
0:00:15 > 0:00:18I might have a brother still living here.
0:00:18 > 0:00:22Especially when they could be anywhere, at home or abroad.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26And that's where the family finders come in.
0:00:26 > 0:00:28From international organisations...
0:00:28 > 0:00:32Hi, it's the Salvation Army Family Tracing Service...
0:00:32 > 0:00:36- ..to genealogy detective agencies... - For someone to say that it's
0:00:36 > 0:00:39changed their life, it makes coming to work, you know, really,
0:00:39 > 0:00:40really special.
0:00:40 > 0:00:42..and dedicated one-man bands.
0:00:42 > 0:00:46It's a matter of how much effort you really want to put into it,
0:00:46 > 0:00:48how badly you want to solve the problem.
0:00:48 > 0:00:52They hunt through history to bring families back together again.
0:00:52 > 0:00:55Finding new family is wonderful.
0:00:55 > 0:00:59In this series, we follow the work of the family finders...
0:00:59 > 0:01:05Suddenly you get one spark of breakthrough, and there they are!
0:01:05 > 0:01:07..learning the tricks they use to track
0:01:07 > 0:01:09missing relatives through time.
0:01:09 > 0:01:13I didn't think I'd ever find sisters, but I have.
0:01:13 > 0:01:17And meeting the people whose lives they changed along the way.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20I've been waiting to meet John my whole life.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22Since we've met, I feel part of a family again.
0:01:23 > 0:01:26You've just completed my life for me.
0:01:33 > 0:01:37Tracing long-lost family members is never an easy task.
0:01:37 > 0:01:40But some searches are more complicated than others.
0:01:40 > 0:01:45It can take years of hard work to unravel a family mystery.
0:01:45 > 0:01:47Some may never be solved successfully.
0:01:47 > 0:01:51And some may need the help of a professional family finding company.
0:01:52 > 0:01:55Today, we follow twins Michael and Janet
0:01:55 > 0:01:59and their story of a family secret kept hidden for over 60 years.
0:02:01 > 0:02:03And looking for these bills to pay,
0:02:03 > 0:02:06I came across a birth certificate and opened it up
0:02:06 > 0:02:10and read it a few times and fell to my knees, really.
0:02:10 > 0:02:12Just took me by surprise.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17And we meet Basharat, whose search for his mother's missing
0:02:17 > 0:02:22family uncovers a web of connections stretching across two continents.
0:02:22 > 0:02:27This became another shock for myself, as I felt the searches
0:02:27 > 0:02:31that we had done were completed, and there wasn't any of the siblings.
0:02:35 > 0:02:41Twins Janet and Michael were born in 1944 in Merseyside.
0:02:41 > 0:02:45My mum, Nellie Bedrock, was one of ten children,
0:02:45 > 0:02:49lived in Rock Ferry and worked at the soap factory.
0:02:49 > 0:02:54My dad, Leslie Lockwood Bedrock, lived in the village Port Sunlight,
0:02:54 > 0:02:56and that's where they met.
0:02:56 > 0:02:58He liked to think he could play the ukulele.
0:02:58 > 0:03:02- SHE LAUGHS - But he couldn't.
0:03:02 > 0:03:04He couldn't hold a tune in a bucket.
0:03:04 > 0:03:06THEY LAUGH
0:03:07 > 0:03:11Mum became pregnant in early 1944.
0:03:11 > 0:03:15Mum went into Clatterbridge Hospital, and I was born,
0:03:15 > 0:03:18and then she said, "Hang on, Mrs Bedrock,
0:03:18 > 0:03:21"there's another one here." And that's the first she knew.
0:03:23 > 0:03:25I was going to be called Roma,
0:03:25 > 0:03:27and Michael was going to be called David,
0:03:27 > 0:03:31but the nurses called us Janet and Michael,
0:03:31 > 0:03:36and she thought that rolled off the tongue better than Roma and David.
0:03:36 > 0:03:38It was a good childhood.
0:03:38 > 0:03:41We didn't have an awful lot, but Mum worked all her life.
0:03:42 > 0:03:45- We had happy times.- Yeah. - Good times.
0:03:46 > 0:03:51Being on the banks of the Mersey, shrimps and prawns and fish
0:03:51 > 0:03:54and things like that, they were plentiful.
0:03:54 > 0:03:56There was always something on the table.
0:03:56 > 0:03:59Always something. She looked after us.
0:03:59 > 0:04:04I used to say to my mum, "Can I have a sister?"
0:04:04 > 0:04:07And she'd say, "Oh, you'd have to share your toys."
0:04:07 > 0:04:11And I just used to take it as face value, you know.
0:04:11 > 0:04:13And that was it.
0:04:13 > 0:04:16- We never got one, did we? - No, we had a dog instead.
0:04:23 > 0:04:24Family life continued.
0:04:24 > 0:04:29The twins grew up, left home and started their own families.
0:04:29 > 0:04:33In fact, it wasn't until decades later that Michael and Janet
0:04:33 > 0:04:37had any idea their parents had been hiding a startling family secret.
0:04:38 > 0:04:44Mum had died in August 1999,
0:04:44 > 0:04:47and we looked after Dad for a year,
0:04:47 > 0:04:50and exactly a year later, August 2000,
0:04:50 > 0:04:55Dad took ill with pneumonia, and he was in hospital six weeks.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59As he was sort of getting better,
0:04:59 > 0:05:03he asked me to pay a couple of bills for him.
0:05:03 > 0:05:08And looking for these bills to pay, I came across a birth certificate
0:05:08 > 0:05:10and opened it up, read it a few times
0:05:10 > 0:05:13and fell to my knees, really.
0:05:13 > 0:05:15Just took me by surprise.
0:05:15 > 0:05:17It was the last thing I expected to find.
0:05:19 > 0:05:21Janet had discovered the birth certificate
0:05:21 > 0:05:23of a baby girl born to her mother
0:05:23 > 0:05:28in November 1943, a year before Janet and Michael were born.
0:05:28 > 0:05:32The certificate revealed they had an older sister called Linda.
0:05:33 > 0:05:37I rang Mike up straight away and I said, "Are you sitting down?"
0:05:37 > 0:05:39He said, "Yeah."
0:05:39 > 0:05:42And explained it to him and we just couldn't believe it, really.
0:05:43 > 0:05:49I was surprised when I found the birth certificate, and then it took
0:05:49 > 0:05:54me a few days to think, "Oh, I'll have to do something about this."
0:05:54 > 0:05:55After their father died,
0:05:55 > 0:05:58Janet started talking to other family members.
0:05:58 > 0:06:01Janet and Michael knew that during the Second World War,
0:06:01 > 0:06:05their father, Leslie, had been sent to fight in North Africa,
0:06:05 > 0:06:07and their mum, Nellie, had joined the Wrens.
0:06:07 > 0:06:11But what now emerged was that while their parents were separated
0:06:11 > 0:06:15by the war, their mother, Nellie, met another man and became pregnant.
0:06:15 > 0:06:20Dad was away in the war and had been away for a year.
0:06:20 > 0:06:24My mum had just come home with the baby.
0:06:24 > 0:06:26All her brothers and sisters came to the house.
0:06:26 > 0:06:32My dad came home and thought they were having a party for him
0:06:32 > 0:06:36coming home from the war, and it was this baby.
0:06:36 > 0:06:40So you can imagine his feelings at being told there and then
0:06:40 > 0:06:43that this wasn't his baby.
0:06:43 > 0:06:50So he gave Mum the ultimatum that it was either him or the baby.
0:06:52 > 0:06:53Janet discovered it was a family
0:06:53 > 0:06:57aunt from Birmingham called Mrs Frost who came up with
0:06:57 > 0:07:01a solution. She knew a couple who had recently lost their own baby.
0:07:01 > 0:07:05Mrs Frost arranged for that couple to adopt baby Linda.
0:07:06 > 0:07:10Mum and Dad got back together within, well, three months.
0:07:10 > 0:07:14And exactly 9 months later, we were born.
0:07:16 > 0:07:1866 years later, Janet discovered
0:07:18 > 0:07:20the birth certificate of the older
0:07:20 > 0:07:23half-sister she and Michael never knew they had.
0:07:23 > 0:07:26It was then that Janet had to decide.
0:07:26 > 0:07:29Should she look for their unknown sister?
0:07:29 > 0:07:32Or should she leave their family secret buried?
0:07:32 > 0:07:34Janet decided to look for Linda.
0:07:36 > 0:07:40The main drive for the search really was to find
0:07:40 > 0:07:42a part of my mother again.
0:07:44 > 0:07:46Yes, I wanted to find her for myself and Mike,
0:07:46 > 0:07:51but I just felt she wanted us to find her.
0:07:51 > 0:07:56The birth certificate was redone in 1991 and I thought,
0:07:56 > 0:07:58"She must have wanted us to know
0:07:58 > 0:08:02"about her but couldn't tell us herself."
0:08:02 > 0:08:05So I just had to go on and find her, really.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10Now armed with some of the facts surrounding the mystery of her
0:08:10 > 0:08:14missing sister, Janet's next step was to trawl through her parents'
0:08:14 > 0:08:16papers and photos for more clues.
0:08:17 > 0:08:19While looking through an old photo album,
0:08:19 > 0:08:22she made an astonishing discovery.
0:08:22 > 0:08:26The one that stood out most was this one.
0:08:26 > 0:08:31On the reverse of it, it said, "To Mr and Mrs Frost from Brenda."
0:08:31 > 0:08:36And Mr and Mrs Frost were my great-aunt and uncle in Birmingham,
0:08:36 > 0:08:41so that really meant more to me than all the others.
0:08:41 > 0:08:45Janet believed the girl in the photo could be her missing sister,
0:08:45 > 0:08:50but despite this early breakthrough, Janet's search for Linda stalled.
0:08:50 > 0:08:52At that time, there was no way for her to trace
0:08:52 > 0:08:56an adopted sibling through official channels.
0:08:56 > 0:09:01I just thought I'd get in touch with adoption agencies, really.
0:09:01 > 0:09:06And there was one in Southport and then, of course, the Salvation Army.
0:09:06 > 0:09:08And I wrote to them.
0:09:08 > 0:09:11The Salvation Army wrote back and said that they couldn't deal
0:09:11 > 0:09:15with it because of the laws of adoption.
0:09:15 > 0:09:18They couldn't do anything, so that was the end of that.
0:09:20 > 0:09:25My daughter went online to see, could she find anything,
0:09:25 > 0:09:31anyone with the name Bedrock and got a few names and things,
0:09:31 > 0:09:33but there was nothing else I could do about them,
0:09:33 > 0:09:37because it didn't really apply to anything I already had.
0:09:38 > 0:09:42And I had no addresses or phone numbers or anything,
0:09:42 > 0:09:44so I couldn't really follow those up.
0:09:45 > 0:09:49So that was a dead end with that as well.
0:09:50 > 0:09:52Over a decade after discovering
0:09:52 > 0:09:54she and Michael had a missing sister,
0:09:54 > 0:09:57Janet's search had ground to a halt.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00Little did she know a change in the law was about to pave the way
0:10:00 > 0:10:02to an emotional reunion.
0:10:12 > 0:10:17Some family trees are so complex, tracing them can be daunting.
0:10:17 > 0:10:21In the case of Yasmin Najeeb, the story is so tangled,
0:10:21 > 0:10:23it took nearly a decade to unravel.
0:10:24 > 0:10:28Yasmin lives in Birmingham. She has eight children including her
0:10:28 > 0:10:31son Basharat. Yasmin was born in Norwich,
0:10:31 > 0:10:34but grew up in rural Pakistan.
0:10:39 > 0:10:44She went to Pakistan with her adopted father at the age of two.
0:10:44 > 0:10:47She spent about 14 years growing up in a village.
0:11:01 > 0:11:03Yasmin was brought up in Pakistan
0:11:03 > 0:11:06by her adoptive father, called Faisal Din.
0:11:06 > 0:11:10It seems he had married Yasmin's birth mother in England, returned to
0:11:10 > 0:11:14Pakistan with Yasmin, and brought her up as one of his own children.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17Yasmin never knew her English birth parents.
0:11:18 > 0:11:23My mother has no memories of her biological mother and father.
0:11:23 > 0:11:28She grew up and was seen like anybody else that was living there.
0:11:28 > 0:11:30She has no regrets about it at all.
0:11:30 > 0:11:32And for herself, it was a very happy time.
0:11:36 > 0:11:40Because she was very different-looking to everybody else
0:11:40 > 0:11:44within the village and the surrounding area, she never
0:11:44 > 0:11:49felt there was any kind of prejudice against her for her background.
0:11:49 > 0:11:53She was seen as maybe the star child within the village.
0:11:59 > 0:12:04When she was 16, Yasmin married Mohammed Najeeb in Pakistan.
0:12:04 > 0:12:06Mohammed had returned for the wedding from the UK,
0:12:06 > 0:12:09where he had emigrated in the 1950s.
0:12:09 > 0:12:11So after they were wed,
0:12:11 > 0:12:14Yasmin returned to England with her new husband.
0:12:17 > 0:12:22Mohammed was part of a wave of new arrivals to the UK in the 1950s,
0:12:22 > 0:12:25when post-war British governments were actively encouraging
0:12:25 > 0:12:28migration from Commonwealth countries like Pakistan.
0:12:29 > 0:12:33This helped resolve the UK's labour needs at a time of economic
0:12:33 > 0:12:36recovery and rebuilding after the Second World War.
0:12:39 > 0:12:41Although there are no accurate figures for the number
0:12:41 > 0:12:44of people settling in the UK at that time, it is
0:12:44 > 0:12:49estimated that net immigration was around 20,000 a year in the 1950s.
0:12:50 > 0:12:54That figure has risen to over 100,000 a year since the late 1990s.
0:12:59 > 0:13:01But when Yasmin came to the UK,
0:13:01 > 0:13:05she was returning to the country of her birth and her birth parents.
0:13:05 > 0:13:07As her own family grew,
0:13:07 > 0:13:10so did Yasmin's curiosity about her English mother.
0:13:12 > 0:13:17Mum has always wanted, just for one moment in her life,
0:13:17 > 0:13:19to be able to see...
0:13:21 > 0:13:22..her natural mother.
0:13:23 > 0:13:25SHE SPEAKS OWN LANGUAGE
0:13:25 > 0:13:30And what she looked like, for her to embrace her,
0:13:30 > 0:13:33for her to talk to her, um,
0:13:33 > 0:13:37and for her mum's mum to acknowledge her.
0:13:39 > 0:13:43So in 2008, Basharat began the daunting task of trying to unravel
0:13:43 > 0:13:48the mystery of his mum's parentage and his own English heritage.
0:13:49 > 0:13:53It was a combination of passion and a combination of getting some
0:13:53 > 0:13:58kind of closure on where Mum has come from, her initial roots.
0:13:58 > 0:14:00And it was very, very important for all of us.
0:14:02 > 0:14:06Basharat's father had attempted his own searches in the '80s,
0:14:06 > 0:14:08but didn't get far.
0:14:08 > 0:14:11Basharat picked up the search with the paperwork his father had
0:14:11 > 0:14:14found relating to Yasmin's birth parents.
0:14:14 > 0:14:19I was given this marriage certificate which has
0:14:19 > 0:14:22my mum's parents' details on it.
0:14:22 > 0:14:25And the marriage certificate gave me Bertram John Crisp,
0:14:25 > 0:14:31my mum's father, his age of 36 at time of marriage...
0:14:32 > 0:14:36..and his profession, a labourer.
0:14:36 > 0:14:41My mum's mum's name on the marriage certificate is Ellen Amalie Bloss.
0:14:41 > 0:14:43She was 17 at time of marriage.
0:14:44 > 0:14:47Basharat began his search in the last known area
0:14:47 > 0:14:50his grandmother, Ellen, had lived in the east of England.
0:14:51 > 0:14:54I decided that I would travel to Norwich,
0:14:54 > 0:14:56to go to the Norfolk archives.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00Buried in the archives,
0:15:00 > 0:15:03Basharat discovered something completely unexpected.
0:15:03 > 0:15:07Baptism records of more children born to Yasmin's birth parents,
0:15:07 > 0:15:09Ellen and Bertram Crisp.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12They revealed Yasmin had older siblings.
0:15:13 > 0:15:18Looking at that documentation, my jaw dropped, thinking,
0:15:18 > 0:15:24"These are my mum's siblings." I had no knowledge of them.
0:15:24 > 0:15:27My mum had no knowledge of them. Nobody had any knowledge of them.
0:15:27 > 0:15:32And I decided, right, my search has expanded now.
0:15:32 > 0:15:34Not only was I looking for my mum's mum,
0:15:34 > 0:15:37I was also looking for my mum's siblings.
0:15:38 > 0:15:40With a new focus for his search,
0:15:40 > 0:15:42Basharat trawled through the records.
0:15:42 > 0:15:44His detective work paid off.
0:15:44 > 0:15:47He tracked down two of Yasmin's older siblings,
0:15:47 > 0:15:50including her sister, Marguerita.
0:15:50 > 0:15:54Here I am with contact numbers of my mum's sister
0:15:54 > 0:15:56and my mum's brother.
0:15:56 > 0:15:59And I decided to phone my mum's sister, Marguerita.
0:16:01 > 0:16:07I made the phone call, and it was a surprise and a shock.
0:16:07 > 0:16:12Really surprised. I had to sit down. I mean, you stand up and do the...
0:16:12 > 0:16:14Not me. I had to sit down.
0:16:14 > 0:16:17He said, "You don't know who I am.
0:16:17 > 0:16:20"I think my mum is your sister."
0:16:20 > 0:16:25I couldn't believe that I'd got another sibling.
0:16:25 > 0:16:29We exchanged photographs, stories,
0:16:29 > 0:16:30so we got to know each other.
0:16:33 > 0:16:37Marguerita's story began with a childhood spent in care.
0:16:37 > 0:16:40When I was two, I was put in a home.
0:16:40 > 0:16:45My sister and my younger brother,
0:16:45 > 0:16:47they also went in the home well after me.
0:16:49 > 0:16:51Eventually, Marguerita and her siblings
0:16:51 > 0:16:54were all fostered by the same family.
0:16:54 > 0:16:57Marguerita had no contact with their birth mother,
0:16:57 > 0:16:59Ellen, apart from one encounter
0:16:59 > 0:17:01when she was a teenager.
0:17:01 > 0:17:06I was told where she worked one time in Yarmouth.
0:17:06 > 0:17:09I met her when I saw her in the shop.
0:17:09 > 0:17:13But just weren't interested at all.
0:17:14 > 0:17:17So that was it. I just accepted it.
0:17:19 > 0:17:23Marguerita went on to have a family of her own
0:17:23 > 0:17:25and never saw Ellen again.
0:17:25 > 0:17:28So she had no idea she had a younger sister
0:17:28 > 0:17:31until Basharat called out of the blue.
0:17:31 > 0:17:35I couldn't wait to meet her. I was ecstatic.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40The two new-found sisters arranged to meet.
0:17:40 > 0:17:44Mum's first meeting with her sister Marguerita, there was a lot
0:17:44 > 0:17:47of love, a lot of reflection into each other's eyes.
0:17:47 > 0:17:50The communication was limited due to the language barriers,
0:17:50 > 0:17:53but there was a lot of understanding between the two.
0:17:53 > 0:17:56When she walked through that door, honestly,
0:17:56 > 0:17:58I thought I was looking in the mirror.
0:17:59 > 0:18:03We are identical. Absolutely.
0:18:03 > 0:18:06There was no sign, "Well, is she a sister or not?"
0:18:08 > 0:18:12I was, yeah, down to every tooth and nail.
0:18:14 > 0:18:17She looked at me, her arms went out like this, and that was...
0:18:17 > 0:18:22I just wanted to cry but I wouldn't let myself, and it was lovely.
0:18:22 > 0:18:26A real sister. She's wonderful.
0:18:26 > 0:18:29Me and my mum, we drove down to Norwich
0:18:29 > 0:18:32to meet her brother, Ken, for the first time.
0:18:36 > 0:18:41The connection, knowing that, yes, this is my sister,
0:18:41 > 0:18:42and this is my brother.
0:18:43 > 0:18:46Basharat's search revealed that in total,
0:18:46 > 0:18:48Yasmin had four birth siblings
0:18:48 > 0:18:50she never knew she had.
0:18:50 > 0:18:54To find another side of the family was amazing.
0:18:59 > 0:19:03Mum never really thought that she
0:19:03 > 0:19:07- had another family within the UK. - No.
0:19:07 > 0:19:11That's a massive, massive family I've got out there.
0:19:12 > 0:19:13Really big one.
0:19:14 > 0:19:19You feel a part of a family, and that's really lovely.
0:19:19 > 0:19:21That's something I never had.
0:19:21 > 0:19:26I just feel so grateful, all to do with Bash.
0:19:26 > 0:19:28Yeah, I owe him all that.
0:19:31 > 0:19:33And there, Basharat thought he
0:19:33 > 0:19:36had solved his mother's mystery story.
0:19:36 > 0:19:37But unbeknownst to them all, there was
0:19:37 > 0:19:41another incredible twist in their family tale to come.
0:19:41 > 0:19:45- Marguerita?- Sure is.- I'm Silva. - Hello, Silva.
0:19:51 > 0:19:56100 miles away, in Merseyside, Janet Lee was trying to solve her
0:19:56 > 0:19:58own family mystery.
0:19:58 > 0:20:01Janet had discovered that she and her twin brother, Michael,
0:20:01 > 0:20:03also had an older half-sister,
0:20:03 > 0:20:07Linda, who had been given up for adoption during the war.
0:20:07 > 0:20:10But her search for Linda had hit a dead end.
0:20:10 > 0:20:14I'd applied to two different adoption societies,
0:20:14 > 0:20:18Salvation Army, and a place in Southport.
0:20:18 > 0:20:23Then, a change in the adoption laws introduced in 2005
0:20:23 > 0:20:25gave Janet new hope.
0:20:25 > 0:20:28Now families could try and contact relatives given
0:20:28 > 0:20:33up for adoption through certain agencies and local authorities.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35So Janet took her case to a specialist agency.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40The agency, they were willing to take it on.
0:20:40 > 0:20:44And my husband and I went over with all my bits and pieces
0:20:44 > 0:20:49that I'd got, and she wrote it all down.
0:20:50 > 0:20:53It took four months of specialist work,
0:20:53 > 0:20:57but the family finders eventually succeeded in doing what Janet
0:20:57 > 0:21:00had been trying to do for over a decade.
0:21:00 > 0:21:03I'd been line dancing on the Monday afternoon.
0:21:03 > 0:21:05Came home and the phone went,
0:21:05 > 0:21:08and she said then, "We've found her."
0:21:08 > 0:21:11The agency arranged a first phone call.
0:21:11 > 0:21:12And she said,
0:21:12 > 0:21:15"Oh, could you ring her after ten because she's going line dancing?"
0:21:15 > 0:21:17Of course, I was really pleased.
0:21:17 > 0:21:21I said, "Oh, there's an interest, we both like line dancing."
0:21:21 > 0:21:25And rang her at ten that night and we talked for a good hour
0:21:25 > 0:21:27and it was lovely.
0:21:27 > 0:21:29Really enjoyed it.
0:21:29 > 0:21:34When I phoned her up the first time, it was an hour and 20 minutes.
0:21:34 > 0:21:36And that was good.
0:21:36 > 0:21:38- SHE LAUGHS - That was good.
0:21:38 > 0:21:40You were more pleased at having another bigger sister,
0:21:40 > 0:21:42- weren't you?- Yeah.
0:21:42 > 0:21:45- Another older girl.- Yes.
0:21:45 > 0:21:47- SHE LAUGHS - To boss you.
0:21:47 > 0:21:49So I was still the youngest in the family.
0:21:49 > 0:21:53After I'd spoken to Brenda that night,
0:21:53 > 0:21:55we were just on a real high.
0:21:55 > 0:21:59So excited, and couldn't sleep because of...
0:21:59 > 0:22:01going over everything in my mind,
0:22:01 > 0:22:02what we'd been talking about.
0:22:02 > 0:22:03And then...
0:22:03 > 0:22:06And really thinking what Mum would think.
0:22:06 > 0:22:10I was really surprised, and I thought, "Oh, I like this,"
0:22:10 > 0:22:12the fact that I have now got a sister.
0:22:14 > 0:22:18Janet's sister Linda was now called Brenda.
0:22:18 > 0:22:21She had grown up 100 miles away in Birmingham
0:22:21 > 0:22:23with her adoptive parents.
0:22:23 > 0:22:27I was an only child with my adoptive parents,
0:22:27 > 0:22:34cos my mother had this daughter who was a month older than me,
0:22:34 > 0:22:35and she actually died.
0:22:35 > 0:22:38And my mother had to have a hysterectomy,
0:22:38 > 0:22:41so therefore she couldn't have any more children.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44I had a really good childhood.
0:22:44 > 0:22:49Especially my father, I idolised him.
0:22:49 > 0:22:51I thought he was so lovely.
0:22:51 > 0:22:55You know, I never imagined he wasn't my father.
0:22:55 > 0:23:01I always wanted a brother cos it is lonely being an only child.
0:23:03 > 0:23:06Brenda's parents didn't tell her she was adopted
0:23:06 > 0:23:08when she was growing up,
0:23:08 > 0:23:11although Brenda did have her suspicions.
0:23:11 > 0:23:16One day I went through, I think it was a little attache case,
0:23:16 > 0:23:20and I was looking at various things
0:23:20 > 0:23:24and I found this death certificate of a little girl
0:23:24 > 0:23:29that was born a month before me and died in the November,
0:23:29 > 0:23:35and I think at the time I was probably about nine, ten,
0:23:35 > 0:23:39and it made me start thinking then, "Oh."
0:23:39 > 0:23:42I thought, "Oh, you can't have one child in October
0:23:42 > 0:23:45"and another child in November, surely."
0:23:45 > 0:23:48And that made me start sort of thinking,
0:23:48 > 0:23:50but I never said anything to my mum and dad
0:23:50 > 0:23:54because I shouldn't have been going through these papers anyway.
0:23:54 > 0:23:56Her suspicions grew
0:23:56 > 0:23:59when a teacher inadvertently let something slip.
0:23:59 > 0:24:04When I went into secondary school, I remember this teacher said to me,
0:24:04 > 0:24:07"Oh, you're the little adopted girl, aren't you?"
0:24:07 > 0:24:09And I went, "No, I'm not."
0:24:09 > 0:24:13And I went home and told my dad, and my dad was furious.
0:24:13 > 0:24:18It wasn't until I was 16 Mum and Dad actually told me,
0:24:18 > 0:24:23"Yes, you are adopted but you're still part of the family."
0:24:23 > 0:24:26It explained why a neighbourhood friend of the family,
0:24:26 > 0:24:29Mrs Frost, kept close tabs on Brenda.
0:24:29 > 0:24:33I often used to wonder why she took so much interest in me,
0:24:33 > 0:24:36asking me how I was getting on at school and what I was doing
0:24:36 > 0:24:37and everything.
0:24:37 > 0:24:39And even then, it didn't register.
0:24:39 > 0:24:43I just thought, "Oh, why does she take so much interest in me?"
0:24:43 > 0:24:47And then when I was 16 and my mum and dad eventually told me
0:24:47 > 0:24:51that I was adopted, they told me that Mrs Frost was my real aunt.
0:24:53 > 0:24:55Brenda went to visit Mrs Frost.
0:24:55 > 0:24:58She explained how she had erased her adoption
0:24:58 > 0:25:00when her birth mother had to give up baby Brenda
0:25:00 > 0:25:03in order to preserve her marriage.
0:25:03 > 0:25:07She showed me this photograph of my mother, and I went,
0:25:07 > 0:25:08"Oh, that's definitely my mother,"
0:25:08 > 0:25:12because I was the image of her.
0:25:12 > 0:25:16She wore glasses like me, she was a similar build to me.
0:25:16 > 0:25:20And everything, you know, I sort of just thought, "Oh, yeah.
0:25:20 > 0:25:22"That's definitely my mother."
0:25:22 > 0:25:25Brenda decided not to contact her birth mother.
0:25:25 > 0:25:28I didn't want to upset my adoptive parents,
0:25:28 > 0:25:31because they'd been so good and I'd had a good life.
0:25:31 > 0:25:36And secondly, because of the story of my mother,
0:25:36 > 0:25:39I didn't really want to upset her husband,
0:25:39 > 0:25:43because obviously that must've been a big shock for him as well,
0:25:43 > 0:25:45to come home from Palestine
0:25:45 > 0:25:47and find that his wife was pregnant
0:25:47 > 0:25:51and knowing it wasn't his baby.
0:25:51 > 0:25:54And I just thought, after 16 years,
0:25:54 > 0:25:57did I want to bring all that upheaval?
0:25:59 > 0:26:0316 years turned to 60 years, but little did she know,
0:26:03 > 0:26:05someone was searching for her.
0:26:05 > 0:26:09It was her half-sister Janet.
0:26:09 > 0:26:12Funny enough, it was the day after my birthday...
0:26:12 > 0:26:17- SHE LAUGHS - ..in 2010.
0:26:17 > 0:26:20And this letter came through the post from the After Adoption agency,
0:26:20 > 0:26:25and I just thought it was asking for charity, you know.
0:26:25 > 0:26:27And I very nearly threw it away,
0:26:27 > 0:26:29but then I thought, "Oh, hang on a moment.
0:26:29 > 0:26:31"This is actually addressed to me in person.
0:26:31 > 0:26:33"I better read this letter."
0:26:33 > 0:26:38And then when I read the letter, I went, "Oh, yes!"
0:26:44 > 0:26:46A few months later, Janet and Michael
0:26:46 > 0:26:51prepared to meet their sister Brenda for the first time.
0:26:51 > 0:26:56When I first met Michael and Janet, immediately I felt that connection,
0:26:56 > 0:27:03especially with Janet because Janet and I had got so much in common
0:27:03 > 0:27:05with each other.
0:27:05 > 0:27:09I just felt so happy to see her when we did hug.
0:27:09 > 0:27:11She was easy to get on with
0:27:11 > 0:27:14and she reminded me so much of my mum as well.
0:27:14 > 0:27:18Just everything fell into place and it was lovely.
0:27:18 > 0:27:22And it was surprising, actually, that Michael,
0:27:22 > 0:27:26he had lived in Birmingham when we lived in Birmingham.
0:27:26 > 0:27:31And Brenda told us the places where she'd lived...
0:27:31 > 0:27:34- And worked.- ..and worked...
0:27:34 > 0:27:38were 20 minutes away from where I lived.
0:27:38 > 0:27:41We could've bumped into each other.
0:27:41 > 0:27:44I'm sure my mum is looking down on us,
0:27:44 > 0:27:47and I just think she'd be really pleased
0:27:47 > 0:27:50that we've all found each other,
0:27:50 > 0:27:52because I'm sure it was the last thing
0:27:52 > 0:27:56she ever wanted to do, was to give a baby away.
0:28:00 > 0:28:03Today, Janet, Michael and Brenda
0:28:03 > 0:28:06are meeting up again to exchange more memories
0:28:06 > 0:28:09and to see if they can fill any more of the gaps
0:28:09 > 0:28:12about their family and the early years of their lives.
0:28:18 > 0:28:21- Hello. Hi.- All right?
0:28:23 > 0:28:25- Nice to see you.- Good.
0:28:32 > 0:28:33That's Mum and Dad's wedding.
0:28:33 > 0:28:35Ah, that's good.
0:28:35 > 0:28:39And that's Dad's mum and dad.
0:28:39 > 0:28:42- Your dad was quite tall. - He was, yeah.
0:28:42 > 0:28:46- Did I ever show you that one of them, Mum in the Wrens.- Oh, no.
0:28:46 > 0:28:47She's there with...
0:28:47 > 0:28:52- Cos I thought she was in the Waffs. - No, the Wrens.- Wrens.
0:28:52 > 0:28:55Where was your dad stationed?
0:28:55 > 0:28:57- He was in Palestine.- Palestine.
0:28:59 > 0:29:02Janet also has some other news.
0:29:02 > 0:29:05She thinks she's found a clue in their mother's papers
0:29:05 > 0:29:08as to the identity of Brenda's unknown father.
0:29:08 > 0:29:10I wanted to show you this.
0:29:10 > 0:29:13- I found it in Mum's things.- Mm.
0:29:13 > 0:29:17"My dear Bedrock, I have today heard that he is remitting the sum
0:29:17 > 0:29:21"of 15.17 and sixpence to me with the request
0:29:21 > 0:29:23"that I hand it over to you.
0:29:23 > 0:29:27"The money has not yet arrived, but when it does I'll write again.
0:29:27 > 0:29:29"When you heard from me, I think
0:29:29 > 0:29:31"it will be the best if you come into Liverpool
0:29:31 > 0:29:34"so that I can hand the money over direct."
0:29:34 > 0:29:39And it's from the senior chaplain at the welfare department.
0:29:39 > 0:29:42The letter, found amongst Nelly's possessions,
0:29:42 > 0:29:45details money being given to the family
0:29:45 > 0:29:48by a Stoker on a Royal Navy ship.
0:29:48 > 0:29:51I wonder if Stoker was...
0:29:51 > 0:29:54- Your father.- ..my father. - I don't know.
0:29:54 > 0:29:57There are many more mentions of the same man
0:29:57 > 0:29:59in their mother's effects.
0:29:59 > 0:30:03You see, that's in Mum's autograph book.
0:30:03 > 0:30:07"Leaves may fall, flowers may..."
0:30:07 > 0:30:11- "Die."- "..die. Friends may..."
0:30:11 > 0:30:15- "Forget you."- "..forget you, but..."
0:30:15 > 0:30:18"But neither..." Something... "Will I," is it?
0:30:18 > 0:30:21"Neither will I. Neither will I."
0:30:21 > 0:30:22And that's...
0:30:22 > 0:30:25Is that the name of the ship? I don't know.
0:30:25 > 0:30:28- Ah!- That's what I think.- Actually, I didn't know you'd got this.
0:30:28 > 0:30:32- Didn't you?- No. Yeah, I wonder if it is that?
0:30:32 > 0:30:34I don't know.
0:30:34 > 0:30:36That's something that
0:30:36 > 0:30:39I would really like to know, out of interest,
0:30:39 > 0:30:43because obviously I don't know who my father is.
0:30:43 > 0:30:47Not that I would do anything now.
0:30:47 > 0:30:50Obviously he'd be dead, I would imagine,
0:30:50 > 0:30:53unless he's one of these 100-year-olds.
0:30:53 > 0:30:57But, you know, just interested to know where he came from
0:30:57 > 0:31:04and what sort of a person he was, you know, and all that.
0:31:04 > 0:31:07- That would be interesting. - He could be there.
0:31:07 > 0:31:09The ship was called the Wesley, I think.
0:31:09 > 0:31:11HMS Wesley.
0:31:14 > 0:31:19- Amazing, isn't it?- Mm.- Oh, yeah.
0:31:19 > 0:31:24- That would be interesting if that's what it was.- Mm.- Mm.
0:31:24 > 0:31:26The question of Brenda's father
0:31:26 > 0:31:30may be one part of their family mystery that is never solved,
0:31:30 > 0:31:33but one thing the new-found siblings know for sure
0:31:33 > 0:31:36is that their mother's decision to give away a child
0:31:36 > 0:31:38was not an easy one.
0:31:38 > 0:31:40I just think, you know,
0:31:40 > 0:31:44all that she had to go through was something very hard to do,
0:31:44 > 0:31:46and she had to make choices.
0:31:46 > 0:31:48It was either my dad or you,
0:31:48 > 0:31:53and I just feel it must've been really hard to have given you away.
0:31:53 > 0:31:57It's difficult enough to be a single parent even nowadays...
0:31:57 > 0:32:01- Yeah.- ..but, like, in those days, the shame.
0:32:01 > 0:32:04But then if her and Dad hadn't got back together,
0:32:04 > 0:32:06there would've been no Michael and no Janet.
0:32:06 > 0:32:10- No, no. That's true.- So, it's... - Yeah.
0:32:10 > 0:32:13- It's had a happy ending.- Yes. - Cos we wouldn't have...
0:32:13 > 0:32:16We found you, and that's the main thing, isn't it?
0:32:16 > 0:32:18That's true. Yeah.
0:32:18 > 0:32:20Love you.
0:32:20 > 0:32:22Seeing Brenda...
0:32:22 > 0:32:25can't describe it. It's just...
0:32:25 > 0:32:28- It's magical.- Magical. Yeah. Obviously magical.
0:32:28 > 0:32:30Very often I've thought to myself,
0:32:30 > 0:32:33"God, I've got no-one in this world who, you know,
0:32:33 > 0:32:35"would care about me,"
0:32:35 > 0:32:39and now suddenly it's a really nice feeling.
0:32:39 > 0:32:40Yeah.
0:32:40 > 0:32:43'Having siblings to me is really good'
0:32:43 > 0:32:47because it gives me a feeling of belonging somewhere
0:32:47 > 0:32:53which at times I've not always felt like that,
0:32:53 > 0:33:01and that just puts a nice sort of final polish on the whole affair.
0:33:01 > 0:33:02Yeah.
0:33:02 > 0:33:04When Mum was alive, if anything happened, exciting
0:33:04 > 0:33:06or something nice happened,
0:33:06 > 0:33:09- I'd ring her up and tell her, and now I ring you up.- Yeah.
0:33:09 > 0:33:13- THEY LAUGH - That's right, yeah. And I ring you.
0:33:13 > 0:33:15- We've got a few more years together, haven't we?- Yeah.
0:33:15 > 0:33:18That's the joy of the whole finding the birth certificate and...
0:33:18 > 0:33:21- Finding the person.- Yeah.
0:33:21 > 0:33:22Finding out what she's like.
0:33:22 > 0:33:24- It's like having a new friend...- Yeah.
0:33:24 > 0:33:26..as well as a new sister, so...
0:33:26 > 0:33:28- To Mum.- To Mum, yeah.
0:33:38 > 0:33:42In Birmingham, Yasmin and her son Basharat were unravelling
0:33:42 > 0:33:45their complicated family history.
0:33:45 > 0:33:49Yasmin was born in England but brought up by her adoptive father
0:33:49 > 0:33:53in Pakistan before returning to the UK in the '60s.
0:33:53 > 0:33:56Basharat's detective work had revealed that his mother
0:33:56 > 0:34:00had other siblings in the UK she hadn't known existed,
0:34:00 > 0:34:02including her sister, Marguerita,
0:34:02 > 0:34:06and that, he thought, was the end of the search.
0:34:06 > 0:34:11In 2014 I received a letter in the post
0:34:11 > 0:34:15and it was quite a surprise for myself.
0:34:15 > 0:34:19The letter came from a couple called John and Silva Scott.
0:34:19 > 0:34:22It threw Basharat's carefully constructed family history
0:34:22 > 0:34:25into confusion once again.
0:34:25 > 0:34:31John mentioned in the letter that Silva was a sibling to my mum
0:34:31 > 0:34:33and that she had the same mother.
0:34:33 > 0:34:36This became another shock for myself
0:34:36 > 0:34:39as I felt the searches that we had done
0:34:39 > 0:34:43were completed and there wasn't any other siblings.
0:34:43 > 0:34:47Basharat immediately got in touch with John and Silva.
0:34:47 > 0:34:49Silva's story left no room for doubt
0:34:49 > 0:34:54that she was in fact Yasmin's and Marguerita's half-sister.
0:34:54 > 0:34:58I was adopted when I was 4.5 years old.
0:34:58 > 0:35:03From when I could understand, I knew that my parents,
0:35:03 > 0:35:08one was Asian and one was white, but nothing else.
0:35:08 > 0:35:12I don't even know why I was put up for adoption,
0:35:12 > 0:35:17and that's always been a question that has never been answered.
0:35:17 > 0:35:19My childhood was really, really happy.
0:35:19 > 0:35:23I had wonderful parents and a brother and a sister
0:35:23 > 0:35:27and we all got on really well and it was just wonderful.
0:35:27 > 0:35:32When I was a teenager, I did wonder about my birth parents,
0:35:32 > 0:35:35but then when I became 18, I thought,
0:35:35 > 0:35:38"No, because I've had such a wonderful life,
0:35:38 > 0:35:40"and there must've been a reason,
0:35:40 > 0:35:44"so we'll just let sleeping dogs lie."
0:35:44 > 0:35:47But in 2013, Silva became ill.
0:35:47 > 0:35:49We went to a specialist.
0:35:49 > 0:35:52They confirmed she had ovarian cancer.
0:35:52 > 0:35:56They kept asking, "Is there any cancer in the family?"
0:35:56 > 0:35:58And we had to say, "We don't know
0:35:58 > 0:36:01"because we don't know the biological family."
0:36:01 > 0:36:04It was then that Silva's husband John
0:36:04 > 0:36:06started his search for her birth family.
0:36:06 > 0:36:11Silva's adoption records gave her birth mother's name Ellen Din.
0:36:11 > 0:36:14Next, John traced Ellen's other children,
0:36:14 > 0:36:17including Yasmin - Silva's half-sister.
0:36:17 > 0:36:19The biggest shock was finding out
0:36:19 > 0:36:22that I had other siblings within this country,
0:36:22 > 0:36:29so that was something that I had to get used to.
0:36:29 > 0:36:31After making contact,
0:36:31 > 0:36:33first by letter and then on the phone,
0:36:33 > 0:36:36the two sisters and their families decided to meet.
0:36:36 > 0:36:42I was nervous and apprehensive as to what to expect
0:36:42 > 0:36:46because I'd never even knew I had a half-sister,
0:36:46 > 0:36:48never mind anything else.
0:36:48 > 0:36:49They were so lovely.
0:36:49 > 0:36:52It was so easy to get on with them,
0:36:52 > 0:36:56and we welcomed them into our home and we had a lovely visit.
0:36:56 > 0:37:02We met. We went to their house, and it was fantastic meeting her.
0:37:02 > 0:37:04It was a surprise for everybody.
0:37:04 > 0:37:09We got on really well, and may our relationship blossom.
0:37:09 > 0:37:12It was like meeting a stranger for the first time,
0:37:12 > 0:37:17but we did have a warmth afterwards because we do share the same mother.
0:37:19 > 0:37:22Now Silva and Yasmin have been reunited,
0:37:22 > 0:37:23today marks a new chapter
0:37:23 > 0:37:27in the complicated story of Basharat's family.
0:37:27 > 0:37:29This afternoon, Yasmin and Basharat
0:37:29 > 0:37:31are bringing together the two sisters
0:37:31 > 0:37:35who have still never met - Marguerita and Silva.
0:37:35 > 0:37:37I do feel excited.
0:37:37 > 0:37:42I also feel a bit of apprehension because it's another stranger,
0:37:42 > 0:37:46but looking forward to it also.
0:37:46 > 0:37:51Family is important to me, very important,
0:37:51 > 0:37:56so to find that I've now got extra ones, it's even more so.
0:37:56 > 0:37:58Real excitement.
0:38:00 > 0:38:04Words don't really describe how one can really feel.
0:38:06 > 0:38:09I'm hoping that when we all meet together
0:38:09 > 0:38:13that we will be able to pry some information about Ellen,
0:38:13 > 0:38:15our biological mother.
0:38:23 > 0:38:24Yasmin.
0:38:26 > 0:38:29- How are you?- Very well, very well.
0:38:29 > 0:38:31And you? How are you?
0:38:31 > 0:38:33Are you excited?
0:38:33 > 0:38:35- Yes, I am. - SHE LAUGHS
0:38:40 > 0:38:42With Yasmin and Silva in place,
0:38:42 > 0:38:46it's time for Marguerita to meet the second sister
0:38:46 > 0:38:49she never knew she had - Silva.
0:38:57 > 0:39:01- Marguerita?- Sure is.- I'm Silva.
0:39:01 > 0:39:02Hello, Silva.
0:39:04 > 0:39:06Are you looking forward to this?
0:39:06 > 0:39:07This is wonderful, to meet you.
0:39:07 > 0:39:09- Yes.- Nice.
0:39:09 > 0:39:12- This is real. - I know it is.- This is real.
0:39:12 > 0:39:15- I think this every time things happen.- Yeah.
0:39:15 > 0:39:17I mean, I've been through this before.
0:39:17 > 0:39:19- Well, that's right.- Haven't I?- Yeah.
0:39:19 > 0:39:21You all look like sisters, to be fair.
0:39:21 > 0:39:24There's a resemblance in all three of you.
0:39:24 > 0:39:28- Just so much alike. - Absolutely. I know.
0:39:28 > 0:39:30- I still can't get over it.- No.- No.
0:39:30 > 0:39:33Do you remember anything about our mother?
0:39:33 > 0:39:37Because I look like her.
0:39:37 > 0:39:41On the photograph that...Basharat sent it to us,
0:39:41 > 0:39:45when I was younger, I look like Ellen.
0:39:47 > 0:39:48There.
0:39:48 > 0:39:50Mm. Yes.
0:39:50 > 0:39:53- Nose, same.- Yep.- Hair, same.
0:39:53 > 0:39:55- Image.- Look at mine.
0:39:55 > 0:39:57- Yep.- Look like me.- Oh, yeah.
0:39:57 > 0:39:59Oh, yes.
0:39:59 > 0:40:01Absolutely, isn't it?
0:40:01 > 0:40:03- You look like Ellen.- Yes.
0:40:03 > 0:40:06- And my father as well.- Yes.
0:40:06 > 0:40:10But our mother Ellen didn't want anything to do with anybody.
0:40:10 > 0:40:13- Nothing.- No.- Not at all.- No.
0:40:13 > 0:40:15- That's very sad, isn't it?- Mm-hm.
0:40:15 > 0:40:17- And I won't judge her at all.- No.
0:40:17 > 0:40:21I have had a wonderful life, and you know,
0:40:21 > 0:40:24what she did, she did, and that's it.
0:40:24 > 0:40:27- Doesn't matter. We've all met up.- We have.
0:40:27 > 0:40:28- Yes.- Yes, yeah.
0:40:30 > 0:40:34It took ten years to unravel the complicated family web
0:40:34 > 0:40:38that has brought these three sisters together here today.
0:40:38 > 0:40:41And even now, there are new twists to their story.
0:40:41 > 0:40:45The family believe that Yasmin's adoptive father,
0:40:45 > 0:40:49who took her to Pakistan, was also Silva's birth father.
0:40:49 > 0:40:51So, your father brought...
0:40:51 > 0:40:55My biological father brought Yasmin up, yes.
0:40:55 > 0:40:57- Yep.- Yeah.
0:40:57 > 0:40:58- Yeah.- Yes.
0:40:58 > 0:41:02Such a strange situation...for all of us.
0:41:02 > 0:41:05- But great.- Absolutely.
0:41:05 > 0:41:07What happened to us at birth
0:41:07 > 0:41:12and the way we were all brought up differently
0:41:12 > 0:41:16but yet in all the years, we've found each other.
0:41:16 > 0:41:20And I think, in the words of Sister Sledge,
0:41:20 > 0:41:23you should be saying to each other, "We are family."
0:41:23 > 0:41:26- We are family.- Oh, we are family. Do you want us to get up and sing?
0:41:26 > 0:41:27- Why not?- No.
0:41:29 > 0:41:33You've all got a different past but yet they've come together.
0:41:33 > 0:41:37Even if it's taken us 50-odd years to get us to this point.
0:41:37 > 0:41:42Doing this today has just been the start of something
0:41:42 > 0:41:43that can carry on.
0:41:43 > 0:41:45Thank you.
0:41:48 > 0:41:51'Even after all these years that we've never known each other
0:41:51 > 0:41:54'and then all of a sudden just meeting,
0:41:54 > 0:41:55'there is this kinship.'
0:41:55 > 0:41:58It was just there, and you could tell it was just there.
0:41:59 > 0:42:03'I don't think it's possible now to find my mother.'
0:42:03 > 0:42:09I mean, I'll probably still think about her, but I'm happy.
0:42:09 > 0:42:10Really happy now.
0:42:10 > 0:42:12- Yasmin.- Bye.- Bye-bye.
0:42:12 > 0:42:15'We've had an amazing time meeting each other today.
0:42:15 > 0:42:19'It was what it was all about when we set off on this road'
0:42:19 > 0:42:21of searching for people and your mum.
0:42:21 > 0:42:23- Yeah, very nice. - Searching for your mum.
0:42:23 > 0:42:26We went looking for your mum and found two sisters.
0:42:26 > 0:42:28- OK.- Yeah?- Yeah.- Yeah.
0:42:30 > 0:42:32Good to see you again.
0:42:32 > 0:42:35'To see them both has been out of this world.'
0:42:36 > 0:42:40I'm...I'm just gobsmacked.
0:42:40 > 0:42:43- It's been really lovely. - This has been really wonderful.
0:42:43 > 0:42:46- Uh-huh. I'm taller than you.- Oh. - THEY LAUGH
0:42:46 > 0:42:49This is the start of something,
0:42:49 > 0:42:54and we need to make sure we progress with it and carry on.