0:00:02 > 0:00:04Families can be driven apart for all manner of reasons.
0:00:04 > 0:00:07I had no information at all about where my mum went.
0:00:07 > 0:00:10And when you do lose touch with your loved ones...
0:00:10 > 0:00:12You don't know who you are, where you've come from?
0:00:12 > 0:00:15..finding them can take a lifetime...
0:00:15 > 0:00:19I might have a brother still living here.
0:00:19 > 0:00:23..especially when they could be anywhere, at home or abroad.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26And that's where the Family Finders come in.
0:00:26 > 0:00:28From international organisations...
0:00:28 > 0:00:32Hi, it's the Salvation Army family tracing service.
0:00:32 > 0:00:35..to genealogy detective agencies...
0:00:35 > 0:00:37For them to say it has changed their life,
0:00:37 > 0:00:40it makes coming to work, you know, really, really special.
0:00:40 > 0:00:42..and dedicated one-man bands.
0:00:42 > 0:00:46It's a matter of how much effort do you really want to put into it,
0:00:46 > 0:00:48how badly you want to solve the problem.
0:00:48 > 0:00:52They hunt through history, to bring families back together again.
0:00:52 > 0:00:55Finding new family is wonderful.
0:00:55 > 0:00:59In this series, we follow the work of the Family Finders.
0:00:59 > 0:01:04Suddenly, you get that one spark of breakthrough and there they are.
0:01:04 > 0:01:08Learning the tricks they use to track missing relatives
0:01:08 > 0:01:09through time...
0:01:09 > 0:01:12I didn't think I'd ever find sisters, but I have.
0:01:13 > 0:01:17..and meeting the people whose lives they change along the way.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20I've been waiting to meet John my whole life.
0:01:20 > 0:01:23Since we've met, I feel part of a family again.
0:01:24 > 0:01:26You've just completed my life for me.
0:01:31 > 0:01:35There are a wealth of organisations all over the UK that can help
0:01:35 > 0:01:37reunite estranged families.
0:01:38 > 0:01:41But not everyone decides to go with the experts.
0:01:41 > 0:01:44Plenty of people become family finders themselves.
0:01:47 > 0:01:50Today, we meet two sisters who are determined to uncover
0:01:50 > 0:01:53the mystery of their mother's family and find out
0:01:53 > 0:01:56if they have any long-lost relatives.
0:01:56 > 0:02:00We had mum's birth certificate and two photographs
0:02:00 > 0:02:02and that was all we had.
0:02:02 > 0:02:03It was always a mystery.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08And Allan, who turned detective himself, to unearth some
0:02:08 > 0:02:11family secrets which have lain hidden for over 80 years.
0:02:13 > 0:02:15If I've got to search till the end of my life,
0:02:15 > 0:02:19I'll search till the end of my life, because somewhere out there,
0:02:19 > 0:02:21I've got a brother walking round.
0:02:21 > 0:02:25MUSIC PLAYS
0:02:25 > 0:02:2876-year-old Wendy Cope was born in Surrey into a Britain
0:02:28 > 0:02:29on the cusp of war.
0:02:31 > 0:02:35Her sister, Nicky, came along just after the war ended.
0:02:35 > 0:02:38Brought up by their parents, Pauline and William,
0:02:38 > 0:02:41the sisters felt part of a close-knit family.
0:02:41 > 0:02:45Best mum and dad in the world, I think. Everyone says that, but...
0:02:45 > 0:02:47- They do.- Yeah.
0:02:47 > 0:02:51But their mother, Pauline, had had a different experience.
0:02:51 > 0:02:55She had never known her real parents and was brought up by a kindly local
0:02:55 > 0:02:58lady, Mrs Humphries, who was known in the community
0:02:58 > 0:02:59for taking children in.
0:02:59 > 0:03:00She was so special.
0:03:00 > 0:03:05Everybody came to her for help and all sorts of things.
0:03:05 > 0:03:08Pauline was one of a number of children looked after
0:03:08 > 0:03:11by Mrs Humphries, who was unable to have a family of her own.
0:03:13 > 0:03:18Mum, she took on very young. Mum was only two. She never was adopted.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22She just looked after her forever.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25The question of who Pauline's birth parents were
0:03:25 > 0:03:28was always shrouded in mystery.
0:03:28 > 0:03:33As we got older, we got curious and we used to say to mum,
0:03:33 > 0:03:34"Can't you remember anything?"
0:03:34 > 0:03:38"No," she used to say, "I don't know, I just don't know."
0:03:38 > 0:03:41Although memories were hazy, there was one intriguing
0:03:41 > 0:03:46nugget of information which had been passed down the generations.
0:03:46 > 0:03:53Well, there was a family story. Mum, we knew, I knew, that mum had
0:03:53 > 0:03:58a family on the stage. Vaudeville, sort of, artistes.
0:04:00 > 0:04:03In the 19th and early 20th centuries, music halls and
0:04:03 > 0:04:08variety theatre were the main forms of entertainment for the masses.
0:04:08 > 0:04:11MUSIC PLAYS
0:04:11 > 0:04:15While the dream of fame and fortune came true for a lucky few,
0:04:15 > 0:04:19most music hall performers faced a life of hard work and were
0:04:19 > 0:04:21constantly on the road or performing,
0:04:21 > 0:04:23which left little time for family.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29And if Wendy and Nicola's grandparents were vaudeville
0:04:29 > 0:04:32artists, as the family always believed, in the 1920s,
0:04:32 > 0:04:36life would have got even tougher, as the theatres had to compete
0:04:36 > 0:04:39with the rising popularity of cinema and radio.
0:04:44 > 0:04:48This wasn't the only clues sisters Wendy and Nicky had to go on.
0:04:48 > 0:04:51Their mother used to recount an early childhood memory that
0:04:51 > 0:04:54left a lasting impression on her daughters.
0:04:54 > 0:04:56Mum can remember looking out the window
0:04:56 > 0:05:01and seeing this really posh car and a lady getting out in a fur coat
0:05:01 > 0:05:03and she had a little boy with her.
0:05:03 > 0:05:07Mum never did know what was said or what happened
0:05:07 > 0:05:11and Mum always assumed that was her real mother.
0:05:11 > 0:05:14As far as they know, that fleeting glimpse of the woman
0:05:14 > 0:05:17in the posh car was the first and the last time that their mum
0:05:17 > 0:05:21would ever see her real mother, their grandmother.
0:05:21 > 0:05:26Mum never wanted to know. She was happy. She was well looked after.
0:05:26 > 0:05:29She didn't want to change things.
0:05:30 > 0:05:32Following the death of their mum last year,
0:05:32 > 0:05:36the sisters decided to try to unearth the secrets of the past
0:05:36 > 0:05:38and find out more about their ancestry.
0:05:39 > 0:05:42It was interesting because they were on the stage and you think,
0:05:42 > 0:05:48"Well, what sort of a life was it? And is Mum like them?"
0:05:49 > 0:05:54- Mum was very dramatic. - And so was Nicky.- I was dramatic.
0:05:55 > 0:05:58But with so little information, Wendy and Nicky
0:05:58 > 0:06:00didn't know where to start.
0:06:00 > 0:06:02We had Mum's birth certificate
0:06:02 > 0:06:05and the other thing I had were two photographs.
0:06:06 > 0:06:07And that was all we had.
0:06:09 > 0:06:13It was always a mystery, yes, always a mystery.
0:06:13 > 0:06:16And it stayed that way until a friend of theirs
0:06:16 > 0:06:19set up her own family-finding business.
0:06:19 > 0:06:22I said, "If she really wants a challenge,
0:06:22 > 0:06:24"give her this to try."
0:06:25 > 0:06:30Their friend, genealogist, Kirsten English, took on the case.
0:06:30 > 0:06:32She started with their mother's birth certificate
0:06:32 > 0:06:35and made an interesting discovery.
0:06:35 > 0:06:38When I actually started looking at the birth certificate,
0:06:38 > 0:06:41the first alarm bell was the address of birth.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44In those days, it was still normal to be born at home, but this address
0:06:44 > 0:06:49was actually the street address of Lambeth Infirmary in London
0:06:49 > 0:06:52and if children were born in a hospital in those days,
0:06:52 > 0:06:56it was sometimes an indication that there was some embarrassment
0:06:56 > 0:06:57in the family.
0:07:01 > 0:07:04When embarking on trying to find a family member,
0:07:04 > 0:07:07looking at birth certificates is one of the best places to start.
0:07:09 > 0:07:12You can search for birth, marriage and death certificates online.
0:07:12 > 0:07:17These indexes stretch back to 1837, up to the present day,
0:07:17 > 0:07:19and can be accessed for free.
0:07:19 > 0:07:22New information is being released all the time.
0:07:22 > 0:07:25New datasets, new directories,
0:07:25 > 0:07:28so you may not find something this week, but in six months' time,
0:07:28 > 0:07:31go back to the same website, you might find more information.
0:07:32 > 0:07:35If you're still struggling to come up with any leads, there's
0:07:35 > 0:07:39a wealth of genealogy research tools and websites at your fingertips.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42But if what you're trying to find isn't always immediately
0:07:42 > 0:07:44obvious, don't lose heart.
0:07:44 > 0:07:46So, if you're really stuck, you can
0:07:46 > 0:07:49also think about looking at the names of people in the family.
0:07:49 > 0:07:52Sometimes, you might find that, for instance, a man called
0:07:52 > 0:07:55John William was always known as William in the family,
0:07:55 > 0:07:57because his father was John and his grandfather was John,
0:07:57 > 0:07:59so sometimes people are known by their middle names.
0:07:59 > 0:08:02Sometimes, they're known by nicknames
0:08:02 > 0:08:05and by searching on those, you may find a record of the person
0:08:05 > 0:08:08somewhere else and that might help you solve the problem.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13For Wendy and Nicky, it was the birth certificate that set them
0:08:13 > 0:08:16thinking about who their grandmother really was.
0:08:16 > 0:08:18It listed their mother's parents as Sidney
0:08:18 > 0:08:22and Lily Landsdowne, yet the name, Lily Landsdowne,
0:08:22 > 0:08:25didn't appear anywhere else on any official records.
0:08:25 > 0:08:28This lady's maiden name wasn't the correct name,
0:08:28 > 0:08:31so it was starting then to look quite tricky.
0:08:31 > 0:08:36So, Kirsten decided to turn her focus to the paternal line.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39So, the other name on the birth certificate was Sidney Landsdowne,
0:08:39 > 0:08:40so now it was time to look at him.
0:08:40 > 0:08:45I had to go through several census records before I found him.
0:08:45 > 0:08:47But in the end, I found Sidney Landsdowne
0:08:47 > 0:08:51and it stated that he was a musical artist, so that's when I knew
0:08:51 > 0:08:52I had the right man.
0:08:54 > 0:08:58It was the breakthrough in the case that Kirsten had been waiting for.
0:08:58 > 0:09:02And with no other leads, she began to investigate further into the
0:09:02 > 0:09:06past of grandfather Sidney in the hope of turning up more information.
0:09:08 > 0:09:11The census record also confirmed that he was born in London,
0:09:11 > 0:09:16so then because I had his birth, I managed to find his parents and then
0:09:16 > 0:09:19because I had his father's name, I was able to find his marriage.
0:09:19 > 0:09:22Kirsten was hoping the marriage records would match
0:09:22 > 0:09:26the names on the birth certificate, but they didn't.
0:09:26 > 0:09:29Instead, another name came into the picture.
0:09:30 > 0:09:32We've got Sidney G Landsdowne marrying someone by the maiden
0:09:32 > 0:09:37name of Linwood in Lambeth. They married in 1926.
0:09:37 > 0:09:39We were then able to search if they had any children
0:09:39 > 0:09:41and let's see what we get.
0:09:43 > 0:09:47George K Landsdowne, born in 1927, in Edmonton.
0:09:49 > 0:09:52So, four years after Wendy and Nicola's mum Pauline was born,
0:09:52 > 0:09:57her father, Sidney, had married a little lady called Louisa Linwood.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00They'd had a son who had gone on to have children of his own.
0:10:00 > 0:10:03This discovery meant Wendy and Nicky had cousins
0:10:03 > 0:10:07they hadn't known existed, so they decided to try and make contact.
0:10:07 > 0:10:10It's quite difficult to write, because I thought, well,
0:10:10 > 0:10:13they might think I've gone mad or they don't want, you know,
0:10:13 > 0:10:15they're not interested.
0:10:16 > 0:10:22Later, with the letter sent, all Wendy could do now was wait.
0:10:22 > 0:10:24And I thought, "Oh, gosh, he's written back already."
0:10:30 > 0:10:34Allan Skeggs grew up in Bradford in the 1950s with his mother,
0:10:34 > 0:10:39Doris, father, Walter, and older sisters Barbara and Christine.
0:10:39 > 0:10:42My mum was the housewife, my dad was out at work
0:10:42 > 0:10:45but he always made sure that we were comfortable
0:10:45 > 0:10:48so we always had food on the table, like he said,
0:10:48 > 0:10:51food on the table, clothes on my back and roof over my head.
0:10:51 > 0:10:54Allan had a secure and happy childhood,
0:10:54 > 0:10:56but it was a traditional upbringing.
0:10:56 > 0:10:59His father, like many men of that time,
0:10:59 > 0:11:00wasn't the demonstrative sort.
0:11:02 > 0:11:04We all loved each other
0:11:04 > 0:11:07but my mum showed it more than what my dad showed it.
0:11:07 > 0:11:10If you did summat, he would say, "I'm proud of you,"
0:11:10 > 0:11:15but there were never that love or that hug to say, like, "Well done."
0:11:15 > 0:11:19As a young boy, Allan didn't share his father's tough exterior.
0:11:20 > 0:11:24I was probably one of the softest kids that ever walked the earth.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27My dad, one day, turned round to me and said,
0:11:27 > 0:11:29"Come on, we're going down to rec."
0:11:29 > 0:11:31And the rec was just a field down by where we lived
0:11:31 > 0:11:34and he told me to look after myself.
0:11:34 > 0:11:37He told me to put my fists up. He went, "That's all you need."
0:11:37 > 0:11:40He said, "You never use these unless you've got to."
0:11:40 > 0:11:43This life lesson would prove invaluable to Allan in young
0:11:43 > 0:11:46- adulthood.- I joined the Army at 18.
0:11:46 > 0:11:49Saturday afternoon, three o'clock, walked across the road,
0:11:49 > 0:11:50went in and joined the Army.
0:11:50 > 0:11:53Allan was deployed to Northern Ireland at the height
0:11:53 > 0:11:54of The Troubles.
0:11:54 > 0:11:59The night before I went to Ireland, we had a beer in the pub
0:11:59 > 0:12:02and the first time ever, he gave me a hug.
0:12:02 > 0:12:06Out of all my life, that's probably only one of the few occasions
0:12:06 > 0:12:10that I've ever seen my dad be emotional.
0:12:10 > 0:12:14At the time, Allan put this rare display of affection
0:12:14 > 0:12:17down to the fact that his father was all too familiar with
0:12:17 > 0:12:20the brutal realities of the battlefield.
0:12:20 > 0:12:23He told us that his family had all been killed in the war.
0:12:23 > 0:12:26Growing up as kids, we never even thought about questioning
0:12:26 > 0:12:28things like that.
0:12:28 > 0:12:32But as an adult, Allan became ever more curious about his father's side
0:12:32 > 0:12:37of the family and a couple of years ago decided to do some digging.
0:12:37 > 0:12:39My initial motivation was to find my grandparents
0:12:39 > 0:12:44and find their burial places so that I could go pay my respects.
0:12:45 > 0:12:49Little did he know he was about to stumble across a family
0:12:49 > 0:12:54secret which had lain untouched for the best part of 80 years.
0:12:54 > 0:12:56Once I started getting into dad's side,
0:12:56 > 0:12:59it was like a Miss Marple's mystery.
0:12:59 > 0:13:03The first clue came when he searched for his grandmother's death record.
0:13:03 > 0:13:05What I noticed on it, is that it said that she had died
0:13:05 > 0:13:11in 1962 in Lewisham, which didn't correspond with what my dad
0:13:11 > 0:13:14had always told us as kids growing up.
0:13:14 > 0:13:18I thought to myself, well, if my dad has hidden that for so many years,
0:13:18 > 0:13:20what else has he hidden underneath it?
0:13:21 > 0:13:25Next, Allan obtained copies of his father's marriage records
0:13:25 > 0:13:27and quickly, the plot thickens.
0:13:27 > 0:13:29I noticed that he was married twice
0:13:29 > 0:13:33but when I looked again closer, I noticed it were to my mum.
0:13:33 > 0:13:39He married her in 1952 and then 1956.
0:13:39 > 0:13:42Older relatives were able to give Allan some
0:13:42 > 0:13:45explanation about this strange discovery.
0:13:45 > 0:13:50Because the first marriage in 1952 wasn't a legal marriage,
0:13:50 > 0:13:53because he was still married to somebody else.
0:13:53 > 0:13:57It was just a complete shock, because he has already kept
0:13:57 > 0:14:01quiet about his family and he's kept quiet about this now,
0:14:01 > 0:14:05so now I had to go deeper into it, to find things.
0:14:05 > 0:14:09To find out more about who his father had been married to, Allan
0:14:09 > 0:14:13tapped into ancestry forums online but he didn't have much to go on,
0:14:13 > 0:14:17just his father's name, Walter Skeggs.
0:14:17 > 0:14:22And that Walter Skeggs had married a Wood.
0:14:22 > 0:14:24Allan's father had been married before which,
0:14:24 > 0:14:27until now, had been kept a secret.
0:14:27 > 0:14:31With the surname, Wood, Allan was able to work out a little more
0:14:31 > 0:14:33about his dad's first wife.
0:14:33 > 0:14:37Went onto the computer and I put Skeggs and Wood in,
0:14:37 > 0:14:43and it came up, the Wood came up, as Doris Irene.
0:14:46 > 0:14:49Allan's father had once been married to another woman who,
0:14:49 > 0:14:54coincidentally, was also called Doris, the same name as Allan's mum.
0:14:54 > 0:14:59The next stage was to look and go, did they have any children?
0:14:59 > 0:15:01If the couple had had children,
0:15:01 > 0:15:04Allan would have other siblings he never knew existed.
0:15:04 > 0:15:07Because of the date they got married, I thought,
0:15:07 > 0:15:11within two or three years if they've got any children,
0:15:11 > 0:15:14they're going to have them then, because dad is going to go to war.
0:15:14 > 0:15:20So I basically put a three-year span and it came up with two names.
0:15:20 > 0:15:22One of them, Brian and one of them, David.
0:15:24 > 0:15:27The unfortunate thing with Brian, who was born in 1940,
0:15:27 > 0:15:31is that he died when he was one-year-old and he died in 1941.
0:15:31 > 0:15:36But as far as Allan could tell, the other child, David, survived.
0:15:36 > 0:15:42I was just ecstatic about it, because it was going...
0:15:42 > 0:15:46I might have a brother that's still living here.
0:15:46 > 0:15:50I had David's name, his date of birth,
0:15:50 > 0:15:53so now with them details, I could start my search to find him.
0:15:55 > 0:15:59I started to basically contact all the David Skeggs'
0:15:59 > 0:16:05which I knew had Wood as a mother and Skeggs as a father.
0:16:05 > 0:16:11So, in that way, I had an elimination process, basically.
0:16:11 > 0:16:15But none of them turned out to be the David he was looking for.
0:16:15 > 0:16:20I always had that preparation really underneath to say, you know,
0:16:20 > 0:16:23I might not find him but I'm not going to give up.
0:16:23 > 0:16:26If I've got to search till the end of my life,
0:16:26 > 0:16:29I'll search till the end of my life, because somewhere out there,
0:16:29 > 0:16:31I've got a brother walking round.
0:16:33 > 0:16:35Allan was running out of options,
0:16:35 > 0:16:38so began to search through business records and it was here
0:16:38 > 0:16:43he found a David Skeggs who he thought might just be the one.
0:16:43 > 0:16:47I was more apprehensive with this one, because I'd had
0:16:47 > 0:16:51so much bad luck calling the other ones and I thought,
0:16:51 > 0:16:53well, am I going to hit another brick wall?
0:16:53 > 0:16:56After trawling through all the possible David's,
0:16:56 > 0:16:59could Allan have finally found the right man?
0:16:59 > 0:17:02This voice at the other end went, "Is that Allan?"
0:17:08 > 0:17:11In Surrey, Wendy Cope and her sister Nicky have been
0:17:11 > 0:17:15trying to trace their maternal grandmother Lily Landsdowne.
0:17:15 > 0:17:18They enlisted the help of a family finder,
0:17:18 > 0:17:22Kirsten English, who could find no trace of Lily in historical records.
0:17:23 > 0:17:26This lady's maiden name wasn't the correct name
0:17:26 > 0:17:29so it was starting, then, to look quite tricky.
0:17:29 > 0:17:33Drawing a blank, Kirsten then switched her search
0:17:33 > 0:17:35to their grandfather, Sidney Landsdowne,
0:17:35 > 0:17:38who it turned out had gone on to have a second child
0:17:38 > 0:17:41who would be Wendy and Nicky's uncle.
0:17:44 > 0:17:49Armed with this information, Kirsten was able to track down his daughter,
0:17:49 > 0:17:53Helen - Wendy and Nicky's cousin.
0:17:53 > 0:17:57We had a letter come through the door and when I read it,
0:17:57 > 0:18:02it got me quite excited, actually, because it just said,
0:18:02 > 0:18:05I hope you don't mind me contacting you, erm, we've been researching
0:18:05 > 0:18:10our family and actually, I think we have a shared grandfather.
0:18:10 > 0:18:12I got excited by it, actually. I was surprised.
0:18:12 > 0:18:18Suddenly, we've got this whole new strain of family, which was
0:18:18 > 0:18:20really exciting.
0:18:20 > 0:18:26I wrote that letter and then I had a reply from Helen and I was
0:18:26 > 0:18:30quite excited and I thought, "Oh, gosh, she's written back already."
0:18:30 > 0:18:32But there was more to come.
0:18:32 > 0:18:37Helen was able to shed some light on the mysterious Lily Landsdowne.
0:18:37 > 0:18:40We knew that my grandmother's stage name was Lily Landsdowne
0:18:40 > 0:18:42and I have a fantastic photograph.
0:18:42 > 0:18:46I didn't want to state categorically we definitely had the same
0:18:46 > 0:18:49grandmother, because I could well have been wrong.
0:18:51 > 0:18:54Helen believed that Lily Landsdowne could be
0:18:54 > 0:18:56the stage name of Louisa Linwood.
0:18:56 > 0:19:00If she was right, Helen, Wendy and Nicky would share not only
0:19:00 > 0:19:04a grandfather but also the same grandmother, too.
0:19:05 > 0:19:10I remember e-mailing her and she was a little unsure to begin with.
0:19:10 > 0:19:15But final confirmation came when the cousins swapped photographs.
0:19:15 > 0:19:19In fact, there was handwriting on a photograph that she had
0:19:19 > 0:19:23and a photograph that I have and the handwriting is the same.
0:19:23 > 0:19:27We could see that this "love, Lily" was exactly the same writing
0:19:27 > 0:19:32- and so that was how we knew... - That it was.- ..that this was Louisa.
0:19:34 > 0:19:36- With the many names.- Yes.
0:19:38 > 0:19:40The riddle was solved.
0:19:40 > 0:19:44Louisa Linwood and Lily Landsdowne were the same person.
0:19:44 > 0:19:47Louisa had used her stage name, Lily, on Wendy and Nicky's mother's
0:19:47 > 0:19:51birth certificate and this is what had caused so much confusion.
0:19:52 > 0:19:55And thanks to the message written all those years ago,
0:19:55 > 0:19:58the family had been able to piece their history together.
0:19:58 > 0:20:01- She's beautiful, isn't she?- Yeah.
0:20:01 > 0:20:04Strange, though, she had straight hair, like Mum's, didn't she?
0:20:04 > 0:20:06- Yeah, definitely. - Well, like mine, as well.- Yeah.
0:20:06 > 0:20:10Louise's son - Helen's father, Kenneth -
0:20:10 > 0:20:13was the uncle the sisters never knew they had.
0:20:13 > 0:20:14Although, before he died,
0:20:14 > 0:20:18Kenneth had mentioned their mother, Pauline, to his family.
0:20:19 > 0:20:21He told us he had an older sister,
0:20:21 > 0:20:23he didn't say anything about the circumstances.
0:20:23 > 0:20:27I actually wonder if he knew anything about the circumstances.
0:20:27 > 0:20:31It could have been that he wasn't told anything.
0:20:31 > 0:20:35But why Louisa, AKA Lily, had left her first child,
0:20:35 > 0:20:38Wendy and Nicola's mother, Pauline,
0:20:38 > 0:20:42to be brought up by someone else remains a mystery.
0:20:42 > 0:20:44One thing Helen remembers are the family tales
0:20:44 > 0:20:47of her grandmother's theatrical past.
0:20:47 > 0:20:51She used to perform, um, I think mainly in London, on the stage,
0:20:51 > 0:20:55um, with my grandfather.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58And there's an awful lot there that tells you all about
0:20:58 > 0:21:00all the things that they were in.
0:21:00 > 0:21:02- So that's quite a good one. - Happy days.
0:21:02 > 0:21:05Yeah, and that's with them both in that one.
0:21:05 > 0:21:09- Sid and Lily, they were...- Yeah. - She looks as though...
0:21:09 > 0:21:11- She was the star there.- Yeah.
0:21:11 > 0:21:14But Helen's own memories of Louisa are more recent.
0:21:14 > 0:21:17I do have very fond memories of my grandmother.
0:21:17 > 0:21:20I didn't know her as well as I'd have liked.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24She had quite advanced Parkinson's,
0:21:24 > 0:21:25so she was housebound.
0:21:25 > 0:21:29So all of our visits were based around the home.
0:21:29 > 0:21:34She was... She was just very sweet and my dad loved her very much.
0:21:38 > 0:21:40Today, the three cousins are meeting up.
0:21:40 > 0:21:43I'm really looking forward to it, I'm excited!
0:21:43 > 0:21:47- I bet you are!- I think we'll have to crack the old champagne open!
0:21:47 > 0:21:48Yeah, it's very, very exciting.
0:21:48 > 0:21:50We've got a small family,
0:21:50 > 0:21:53and suddenly we've got family on my father's side
0:21:53 > 0:21:55which we've never had before.
0:21:55 > 0:21:58In honour of their family heritage,
0:21:58 > 0:21:59the ladies are meeting in
0:21:59 > 0:22:02the theatrical heartland of Covent Garden.
0:22:02 > 0:22:04It's a long time since we've been up here together.
0:22:04 > 0:22:06I tell you what, I haven't been up here since I was 18.
0:22:06 > 0:22:10- Lovely atmosphere, though, isn't it? - It is, isn't it, actually? Yeah.
0:22:10 > 0:22:13We couldn't have had a better place, really.
0:22:14 > 0:22:18The thing that I'm looking forward to most today is
0:22:18 > 0:22:21to talk about what she's been doing with her life,
0:22:21 > 0:22:25what we've been doing, and just, you know, getting a bond.
0:22:31 > 0:22:35- Excited now. - Yeah, it is, isn't it, eh?
0:22:44 > 0:22:46- Hello!- Hello!
0:22:46 > 0:22:48- It's lovely to meet you.- And you!
0:22:50 > 0:22:53- Oh, wow!- Lovely to meet you! - Yeah, absolutely!
0:22:53 > 0:22:55Goodness!
0:22:55 > 0:22:57- I can't believe it.- I know!
0:22:59 > 0:23:01Oh, it's amazing.
0:23:01 > 0:23:05- It's surreal, isn't it? - It is.- It's surreal.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08- Yeah.- I just can't...take it in.
0:23:08 > 0:23:10- I've got some photos for you to see. - We're terrible.
0:23:10 > 0:23:13Have you? Yeah, we've got some as well, haven't we?
0:23:13 > 0:23:15- Some ones that you haven't seen, yeah.- Oh, wonderful!
0:23:15 > 0:23:20And the newly-discovered cousins are eager to do some catching up
0:23:20 > 0:23:22on all the lost years.
0:23:22 > 0:23:24But I'm really struck at how similar you two are.
0:23:24 > 0:23:26- You really look alike, don't you? - Do we?
0:23:26 > 0:23:29- Yes!- Well, people say, don't they?
0:23:29 > 0:23:32- They do say, but you never see it yourself, do you?- No.
0:23:32 > 0:23:36- I can see Mum when I look in a mirror.- Oh, really? How lovely.
0:23:36 > 0:23:38- I'm turning into her.- Really?- Yeah.
0:23:38 > 0:23:41Quickly, conversation turns to their grandmother,
0:23:41 > 0:23:43the elusive Lily Lansdowne,
0:23:43 > 0:23:45who's real name was Louisa Linwood.
0:23:45 > 0:23:46- So, that first one...- Oh, yeah, see,
0:23:46 > 0:23:49now that looks like Mum when she was younger, doesn't it?
0:23:49 > 0:23:51- When she was young.- Yeah. - Does it?- Yeah.
0:23:51 > 0:23:53- The hair.- The hair, because Mum had very straight hair.
0:23:53 > 0:23:54- Yeah.- And the nose.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57- Well, we've all got the nose. - We've all got the nose!
0:23:57 > 0:24:00- But she looks beautiful, doesn't she?- Oh, yes.
0:24:00 > 0:24:04- And then that one.- That's nice. - Yeah.- I like that one.
0:24:04 > 0:24:06- It's nice, isn't it?- It is.
0:24:06 > 0:24:08Although, I wondered if these were headshots for getting work,
0:24:08 > 0:24:10- because the ones you've got...- Yes.
0:24:10 > 0:24:12- ..she seems to be dressed up, doesn't she?- Yes. Yeah.
0:24:12 > 0:24:16And this one... You might find this fascinating. That's her.
0:24:16 > 0:24:18It is fascinating, because she doesn't look...
0:24:18 > 0:24:22- No. She looks quite plain there, doesn't she?- Yeah, she does.
0:24:22 > 0:24:25Yeah. And that's, um, obviously, that's her parents.
0:24:25 > 0:24:27- Imagine having all those children! - I know.
0:24:27 > 0:24:31And I think that is, um...
0:24:31 > 0:24:34- Her mum, is it, her mother?- Yeah. - Her mother, yeah.
0:24:34 > 0:24:35Her mum and dad when they were younger.
0:24:35 > 0:24:39- So, great-great grandparents there. - Yes.- There you go.- They're yours.
0:24:39 > 0:24:41- I know, so this is all your family. - I know!
0:24:41 > 0:24:43- It's fantastic, isn't it? - It is, it's amazing.
0:24:43 > 0:24:46And since Helen was first contacted by Wendy,
0:24:46 > 0:24:49she's made another remarkable discovery
0:24:49 > 0:24:51amongst her own family heirlooms.
0:24:51 > 0:24:54But this, as well, when you look at these cards,
0:24:54 > 0:24:58cos my mum did the family research, and if you look there...
0:24:58 > 0:25:01- She's got...- ..it lists your mum.
0:25:01 > 0:25:05Helen's dad, George Kenneth, and Wendy and Nicola's mother, Pauline,
0:25:05 > 0:25:08are both listed as the children of Louisa Linwood.
0:25:08 > 0:25:11- Oh, yes.- And, you can see, they don't know exactly when...
0:25:11 > 0:25:13- BOTH:- When she was born.
0:25:13 > 0:25:16- I thought, well, there we are. - There we are. It's there.- I know.
0:25:16 > 0:25:19That was how we really knew, wasn't it? That bit of paper.
0:25:19 > 0:25:20- Yeah.- Yeah.
0:25:20 > 0:25:22Now they have found each other,
0:25:22 > 0:25:26the cousins are keen to find out if they share any family traits.
0:25:26 > 0:25:29One of the things I'm really interested in
0:25:29 > 0:25:32is the similarities between my dad and your mum.
0:25:32 > 0:25:37She was quite, um... Well, she was very outgoing, really, wasn't she?
0:25:37 > 0:25:39Mum was, yeah. And she sang all the time.
0:25:39 > 0:25:42- Did she?- Always singing, wasn't she? Yeah.
0:25:42 > 0:25:45- So, did she ever do it...- No. - No, not professionally, no.
0:25:45 > 0:25:49She would just be sitting there and she'd just break into a song.
0:25:49 > 0:25:52- Wow.- So it's there, isn't it? - Yes, I know.
0:25:52 > 0:25:55- We didn't get it.- No, I didn't, either.- You can't sing, either?
0:25:55 > 0:25:58- I can't sing.- We'd have been a dead loss then!
0:25:58 > 0:26:00None of us can sing! Where did that go?
0:26:00 > 0:26:06Your uncle, my dad, he actually sang with the Royal Opera Company chorus.
0:26:06 > 0:26:08- Did he?- Did he?
0:26:08 > 0:26:10We could pop along to the Opera House
0:26:10 > 0:26:12and maybe I could show you that.
0:26:12 > 0:26:15- It's close, isn't it?- Yeah, it's very close here, isn't it?- I know.
0:26:15 > 0:26:17It was very important to him, actually.
0:26:17 > 0:26:19- Yeah, it would be lovely. - He was very proud of it.
0:26:21 > 0:26:24Some of the world's most famous opera singers
0:26:24 > 0:26:26have performed at the Royal Opera House.
0:26:26 > 0:26:31And it was here that Helen's dad - Wendy and Nicky's uncle, Kenneth -
0:26:31 > 0:26:33was on stage in the early 1970s.
0:26:33 > 0:26:35So it turns out their grandfather,
0:26:35 > 0:26:40grandmother and also their uncle were all stage performers.
0:26:41 > 0:26:44- Wow!- Wow, yes. - There we are. The Royal Opera House.
0:26:44 > 0:26:47- It's a pretty spectacular building, isn't it?- It is.
0:26:47 > 0:26:49- Yeah.- Definitely is.
0:26:49 > 0:26:55And even more amazing that my father, your uncle, performed here.
0:26:55 > 0:26:58And here he is next to the leading lady...
0:26:58 > 0:27:00- Oh, wow!- Yes!- ..on the front of an album, yeah.
0:27:00 > 0:27:05- Cor!- I know, he looks amazing, doesn't he?- He does.- I know.
0:27:05 > 0:27:09- He was very proud of it. - I bet he was.- Yeah, so were we.
0:27:09 > 0:27:14- Here's one of him as an older guy. - Older, but all right, yeah.
0:27:14 > 0:27:16- Lovely face.- Oh, yes.- Bless him. Bless his heart.
0:27:16 > 0:27:18- He does look lovely, doesn't he? - Yeah.
0:27:20 > 0:27:22- Was that his wedding?- Yeah. - I can see Mum there.
0:27:24 > 0:27:26It's the smile, isn't it? Yeah.
0:27:26 > 0:27:28Yeah, I can definitely see that smile there.
0:27:28 > 0:27:32The cousins have led separate lives until now,
0:27:32 > 0:27:35but their strong connection is undeniable.
0:27:35 > 0:27:38It's been really good, and it's odd, because there...
0:27:38 > 0:27:41There hasn't been anything missing in our families.
0:27:41 > 0:27:44Neither of us have felt that there's anything missing,
0:27:44 > 0:27:48but there is something more than just...friendship.
0:27:48 > 0:27:50And I can't really tell you what that is,
0:27:50 > 0:27:53but it's, um, it's something really quite nice.
0:27:53 > 0:27:55We certainly have the same sense of humour.
0:27:55 > 0:27:58It's been really, really good fun.
0:27:58 > 0:27:59I've thoroughly enjoyed it.
0:27:59 > 0:28:03It has been an absolutely fantastic day.
0:28:03 > 0:28:04Helen is just so like us,
0:28:04 > 0:28:08you'd think we would have known each other for years.
0:28:08 > 0:28:10I know we're going to see a lot more of each other
0:28:10 > 0:28:12and become very, very close.
0:28:12 > 0:28:14It's been fantastic.
0:28:14 > 0:28:15We've got an ending now,
0:28:15 > 0:28:18and it is we know some of them who we've come from.
0:28:18 > 0:28:21And I am really pleased that I tried to do this now.
0:28:32 > 0:28:35In Essex, Allan Skeggs remembers a happy childhood,
0:28:35 > 0:28:38growing up with his mother, father and two sisters.
0:28:38 > 0:28:42But a trawl through his family history has uncovered a big secret.
0:28:42 > 0:28:47Now Allan is searching for a half-brother he never knew he had.
0:28:49 > 0:28:52After several cases of mistaken identity,
0:28:52 > 0:28:54Allan found a man called David Skeggs
0:28:54 > 0:28:56and he sent him a letter.
0:28:57 > 0:29:01That weekend, was just... It were probably the longest weekend
0:29:01 > 0:29:02that I've ever had in my life.
0:29:02 > 0:29:0875 miles away, the letter received an uncertain response.
0:29:09 > 0:29:12We sat around the table and we just said,
0:29:12 > 0:29:17"What on earth is this...person on about? He says he's related.
0:29:17 > 0:29:19"Could he be, or possibly?"
0:29:19 > 0:29:23I was just sceptical about a lot of things in my life, and I thought,
0:29:23 > 0:29:26"Well, he's got it wrong, anyway, whatever it is."
0:29:26 > 0:29:28I were pacing up and down. I kept looking at my phone,
0:29:28 > 0:29:30I kept looking at my e-mails,
0:29:30 > 0:29:32just in case there was something there that I'd missed.
0:29:34 > 0:29:37On the Monday, it were my day off from work
0:29:37 > 0:29:40and I were at home, and the phone rang.
0:29:40 > 0:29:41So I answered it,
0:29:41 > 0:29:44and this voice on the other end went,
0:29:44 > 0:29:47"Is that Allan?" I'm like, "Yeah."
0:29:47 > 0:29:49He went, "David?"
0:29:49 > 0:29:51And I went, "Yeah...
0:29:51 > 0:29:53"Yeah, it's me speaking."
0:29:53 > 0:29:55- You know... - LAUGHTER
0:29:56 > 0:29:58And then, um...
0:29:59 > 0:30:03He said, um, "I'm your brother."
0:30:03 > 0:30:07And he went, "So you're my brother?" And I'm like, "Yeah."
0:30:07 > 0:30:10And from then on we just started talking
0:30:10 > 0:30:12like we'd known each other for ages.
0:30:12 > 0:30:16Allan had found the half-brother he never knew he had,
0:30:16 > 0:30:19although David had never known their father.
0:30:19 > 0:30:23What I remember about my father is absolutely zero.
0:30:23 > 0:30:24Nothing at all.
0:30:24 > 0:30:26I was a war baby.
0:30:26 > 0:30:31Within the year I was born, my father had left.
0:30:32 > 0:30:35David and another half-brother were left with their mother, Doris,
0:30:35 > 0:30:40and, as David remembers, Doris met another man soon after.
0:30:41 > 0:30:45She was with a Mr Broomfield until I was up to about five,
0:30:45 > 0:30:46and then she left.
0:30:48 > 0:30:51David was left without a mum or dad to care for him.
0:30:53 > 0:30:55He found himself on the streets of London.
0:30:56 > 0:31:01When I was five and my brother would have then been ten -
0:31:01 > 0:31:03he was five years older than me -
0:31:03 > 0:31:04and, um...
0:31:07 > 0:31:10..we went on the streets for a while.
0:31:10 > 0:31:13I think things were very tight for everybody,
0:31:13 > 0:31:16and we done a lot of fending for ourselves.
0:31:16 > 0:31:19And then we were rounded up, as it were, by the police,
0:31:19 > 0:31:23and they felt we were in need of care and protection,
0:31:23 > 0:31:25so we were put in care.
0:31:27 > 0:31:30David was sent to a children's home on the outskirts of London.
0:31:33 > 0:31:35There were huge numbers of children left as orphans
0:31:35 > 0:31:38in the years immediately after the Second World War,
0:31:38 > 0:31:40and the chaos of post-war Britain
0:31:40 > 0:31:42means that exact figures are hard to come by.
0:31:43 > 0:31:45The post-war period marked a turning point
0:31:45 > 0:31:47in the history of childcare in the UK,
0:31:47 > 0:31:50with the establishment of the first Children's Committee,
0:31:50 > 0:31:54and a realisation that children had to have more rights in care.
0:31:55 > 0:31:58One result of this was that children's officers
0:31:58 > 0:32:01were appointed to help the most vulnerable in society,
0:32:01 > 0:32:04those who didn't have a parent to care for them.
0:32:04 > 0:32:08This, in turn, led to what we now know as Child Social Services.
0:32:09 > 0:32:13This new approach was designed to scoop up children like David,
0:32:13 > 0:32:17who, at five years old, was homeless and living on the streets.
0:32:21 > 0:32:23David went to live in foster care.
0:32:23 > 0:32:27She was a very nice lady, a Yorkshire woman, and she
0:32:27 > 0:32:32had the dreaded task of looking after me for a couple of years.
0:32:33 > 0:32:34After leaving foster care,
0:32:34 > 0:32:37David wanted to make his own way in the world.
0:32:38 > 0:32:44I left there and ran my own life, which I wasn't very good at doing.
0:32:46 > 0:32:49David mixed with the wrong crowd and ended up in Borstal,
0:32:49 > 0:32:52and later spent a short spell in prison.
0:32:54 > 0:32:57Having a dad I didn't know, which was really quite...
0:32:57 > 0:32:59Would have been handy if I'd have known one,
0:32:59 > 0:33:03cos I do, my heart, I do know, having a dad that looks...
0:33:03 > 0:33:06That would have... was up for me,
0:33:06 > 0:33:09I would have been up for that.
0:33:09 > 0:33:10100%.
0:33:12 > 0:33:14But with no-one else to look out for him,
0:33:14 > 0:33:16David had to rely on himself.
0:33:16 > 0:33:20When I was 28, I was, perhaps, looking at myself in life
0:33:20 > 0:33:23and seeing I weren't really getting anywhere.
0:33:23 > 0:33:25I realised then I'll need to make the changes.
0:33:25 > 0:33:28I started to get substance in my life, really.
0:33:28 > 0:33:31And, later, David met his wife.
0:33:31 > 0:33:37I met Georgina, just a naturally lovely, kind-hearted person.
0:33:37 > 0:33:38Really lovely.
0:33:39 > 0:33:41The flame of my life!
0:33:43 > 0:33:45It was his wife who encouraged David
0:33:45 > 0:33:47to make that all-important call to Allan.
0:33:48 > 0:33:51And not long after they spoke, they met in person.
0:33:52 > 0:33:57I was stood at the door and he pulled up,
0:33:57 > 0:34:00and that were it. He was just full of smiles
0:34:00 > 0:34:03and he were up. He came up the steps
0:34:03 > 0:34:06and he just looked, and it were...
0:34:06 > 0:34:08We just gave the biggest hug, and went,
0:34:08 > 0:34:09"All right, big brother?"
0:34:09 > 0:34:12And he went, "All right, little brother?"
0:34:12 > 0:34:13We had a really good laugh together.
0:34:13 > 0:34:16And that's good. It's a terrific start
0:34:16 > 0:34:20because he's got a good sense of humour and he's a sincere man.
0:34:21 > 0:34:25And it were literally just like we'd known each other years and years.
0:34:25 > 0:34:27What a great start.
0:34:27 > 0:34:31The brothers are making up for the 60 years they've missed,
0:34:31 > 0:34:34and are now slowly building a relationship.
0:34:34 > 0:34:38For David, it's a chance to piece together his own history.
0:34:38 > 0:34:40I've got an interest in my brother,
0:34:40 > 0:34:44because he's going to put flesh on the bones of my dad.
0:34:45 > 0:34:47And I'll only get to know my dad through him.
0:34:47 > 0:34:50I won't... I cannot learn it from no-one else.
0:34:50 > 0:34:54So he is my... He is my link. He's the link to my dad.
0:34:54 > 0:34:59It's only now the men feel ready to talk in depth about their father.
0:34:59 > 0:35:03And today, Allan's invited David to his home in Chingford.
0:35:03 > 0:35:07I've got that old, like, tight stomach.
0:35:07 > 0:35:11It's like that knot there, just waiting.
0:35:11 > 0:35:15It's a lot of excitement and it's a lot of,
0:35:15 > 0:35:19I don't know, it's a lot of memories, as well, which...
0:35:19 > 0:35:24I hope I can put it today, I hope I can put it so he'll understand
0:35:24 > 0:35:26really what Dad were like.
0:35:26 > 0:35:29I think it'll bring us closer.
0:35:30 > 0:35:34It'd be nice to get to the substance of things, really,
0:35:34 > 0:35:37talk about things that move us in our lives
0:35:37 > 0:35:41and how we're going or where we're hoping to,
0:35:41 > 0:35:43so that's quite nice.
0:35:43 > 0:35:45I'm quite looking forward to it.
0:35:48 > 0:35:49Hiya, lad!
0:35:51 > 0:35:53- Good to see you, mate.- Are you good?
0:35:53 > 0:35:56Great, mate, great. Come in, you're soaking.
0:35:56 > 0:36:00And Alan's got the family snaps ready to show David.
0:36:00 > 0:36:02Here's a good one. That's...
0:36:02 > 0:36:04That's me and our Barbara.
0:36:04 > 0:36:07We're about seven-year-old there.
0:36:07 > 0:36:11Do you know what tickles me is at that time, all got these shorts on.
0:36:11 > 0:36:14- All the shorts. - Little short trousers. Anyway.
0:36:14 > 0:36:18Alan's got something special up his sleeve -
0:36:18 > 0:36:20a photo of their father
0:36:20 > 0:36:23that David will be seeing for the very first time.
0:36:23 > 0:36:25- That's Dad.- Unbelievable.
0:36:27 > 0:36:29He looks about seven there.
0:36:30 > 0:36:36- Yeah.- Yeah, so this is my grandma and grandad that we both never knew.
0:36:36 > 0:36:37Yeah.
0:36:37 > 0:36:41Here's when he was a dad. That's a bit of a closer one.
0:36:41 > 0:36:44- Sharp-dressed man. - Yes, he was always impeccable.
0:36:44 > 0:36:48He always made sure that we went out and we went out smart.
0:36:49 > 0:36:52And then, that's another one.
0:36:52 > 0:36:54Lovely, really brilliant.
0:36:54 > 0:36:57In my heart, I'd really love to know him, but you...
0:36:57 > 0:37:00I will get to know him through you.
0:37:00 > 0:37:03- How much of Dad do you remember? - None.- None.- Nothing, at all.
0:37:03 > 0:37:07Because David has no memory of his father
0:37:07 > 0:37:09he wants to learn all he can from Alan.
0:37:10 > 0:37:14- Was it a happy household? - We knew that he loved us,
0:37:14 > 0:37:17but we never, we never got that odd cuddle, because we never...
0:37:17 > 0:37:22He never went and took us down to the park,
0:37:22 > 0:37:25it were a case of, we'll go to speak to my mum first.
0:37:25 > 0:37:27There's not that closeness, then?
0:37:27 > 0:37:30No, there were never, like, an hug.
0:37:30 > 0:37:33The only hug I ever, ever got off him what I can remember
0:37:33 > 0:37:35was that night before I left for Northern Ireland
0:37:35 > 0:37:38and he said to me, "I don't want to lose another son."
0:37:38 > 0:37:42Now, you see, at that stage, because I didn't know any of this,
0:37:42 > 0:37:45so I naturally thought that that
0:37:45 > 0:37:47- he was remembering his mates from the war.- Yes.
0:37:47 > 0:37:51But Alan now believes David could have been the other son
0:37:51 > 0:37:53his father was referring to.
0:37:53 > 0:37:57When I think of a father figure, I want... I want...
0:37:57 > 0:37:59- I want someone to care.- Yeah.
0:37:59 > 0:38:02And that's what you feel that you've missed out on.
0:38:02 > 0:38:04It must have been so hard for you.
0:38:04 > 0:38:08Alan has shared his childhood and memories of their father
0:38:08 > 0:38:11and now it's David's turn to take his half brother
0:38:11 > 0:38:13for a trip down his memory lane.
0:38:13 > 0:38:18We're going to be going over to the West Norwood area,
0:38:18 > 0:38:20to some...
0:38:20 > 0:38:24Basically, me, I spent, sort of, about three years in these homes
0:38:24 > 0:38:28and it'll just be good to see if the homes are still there,
0:38:28 > 0:38:32and from there, go to the area, Camberwell area,
0:38:32 > 0:38:34where I actually was brought up, as well.
0:38:34 > 0:38:35I'm looking forward to that.
0:38:35 > 0:38:38You'll be able to tell me all about it when we get up there.
0:38:38 > 0:38:39Yeah, I can do that.
0:38:39 > 0:38:43This is David's first time in the area since he was 11 years old
0:38:43 > 0:38:47and, despite a whole lot of change, he's quick to recognise
0:38:47 > 0:38:48old landmarks.
0:38:50 > 0:38:51Elder Road.
0:38:51 > 0:38:54Got it. That is it, that is Elder Road. Yes.
0:38:54 > 0:38:56It's interesting.
0:38:56 > 0:38:59David spent many years of his childhood in care
0:38:59 > 0:39:01and it seems he may have outlived
0:39:01 > 0:39:04at least one of the old children's homes.
0:39:04 > 0:39:06It's been totally redeveloped.
0:39:07 > 0:39:11To help David piece it all together, they've brought along an old photo.
0:39:11 > 0:39:16So, where would this have been, if we're standing here now?
0:39:16 > 0:39:19Well, I think that definitely an entrance down here,
0:39:19 > 0:39:21- where them children are down there.- Yeah.
0:39:21 > 0:39:24And there's an entrance up there but there was ways in,
0:39:24 > 0:39:26but they were governed, you couldn't just,
0:39:26 > 0:39:30like, there was fencing like this all the way around it, everywhere.
0:39:30 > 0:39:33Right, when you were in there, what did...
0:39:33 > 0:39:35Did you get much freedom or...?
0:39:35 > 0:39:37Well, I created my own really.
0:39:37 > 0:39:41I think it's like everything else. You're under the auspices
0:39:41 > 0:39:44of people that are trained to look after kids, they're not...
0:39:44 > 0:39:47- Yeah.- You know. But I mean, I used to leave,
0:39:47 > 0:39:53I used to go and ride out and they'd have to come and find me.
0:39:53 > 0:39:56It turns out that what David and Alan are looking for
0:39:56 > 0:39:58may be just around the corner.
0:39:58 > 0:40:02Now, I bet that is part of the original building.
0:40:02 > 0:40:05Yes, look at this here, look. I've just seen to this here.
0:40:05 > 0:40:08- And the past comes flooding back. - They were big.
0:40:08 > 0:40:11Do you know, like, you have bedroom dormitories.
0:40:11 > 0:40:14I mean, 30 people in a dormitory. I remember the numbers.
0:40:14 > 0:40:15That's a whole lot of flipping...
0:40:15 > 0:40:19And there was dormitory after dormitories in the places.
0:40:19 > 0:40:23And they all spread back inside there. Football fields.
0:40:23 > 0:40:26We haven't touched on it, there was football fields,
0:40:26 > 0:40:28playing fields, talk about memory lane.
0:40:28 > 0:40:30I mean, to re-stir a kid's...
0:40:30 > 0:40:35I mean, I left there when I was about, well, ten, 11.
0:40:35 > 0:40:37It wasn't unhappy for me.
0:40:37 > 0:40:40Everyone is, "Oh, poor kid." I flipping loved it.
0:40:40 > 0:40:44I was with other children, that's good stuff, isn't it?
0:40:44 > 0:40:48That's it, I mean, you look at and you go, you know, it's not a nice...
0:40:49 > 0:40:52..place to be when you haven't got parents.
0:40:52 > 0:40:56- It brings back memories, but not bad memories.- No, nothing bad.
0:40:56 > 0:40:58Nothing bad here, at all.
0:40:58 > 0:41:02But prior to that, I was living in the Camberwell area.
0:41:02 > 0:41:04And...
0:41:04 > 0:41:07I think we'll go see if we can go and stir up
0:41:07 > 0:41:10- a few memories down there, shall we?- Yeah, let's go that way.
0:41:10 > 0:41:13While they are in the area, David wants to show his little brother
0:41:13 > 0:41:16one other old haunt that he remembers fondly.
0:41:18 > 0:41:21And seeing as we're here, we're going to not leave this area
0:41:21 > 0:41:23without having the business -
0:41:23 > 0:41:26and that's the jellied eels and pie and liquor,
0:41:26 > 0:41:29so if you'd like to come with me, I'll show you. Away, we go.
0:41:33 > 0:41:35That is the bee's knees, I tell you.
0:41:35 > 0:41:37This gravy's beautiful.
0:41:37 > 0:41:40Anyway, it's been an exceptional day.
0:41:40 > 0:41:44We just had a trip down memory lane and it's all so refreshing.
0:41:44 > 0:41:47I found it refreshing, as well, to...
0:41:48 > 0:41:51It's new things and new relationships,
0:41:51 > 0:41:53new...
0:41:53 > 0:41:56Everything is new. It's very good. Really enjoyed it.
0:41:56 > 0:41:59I'd say the old man would absolutely have loved this.
0:41:59 > 0:42:02He absolutely would. You wouldn't get him out of here.
0:42:02 > 0:42:03You wouldn't get him out,
0:42:03 > 0:42:06he'd have, like, three or four helpings of that.
0:42:06 > 0:42:09I tell you what, if my dad were here now
0:42:09 > 0:42:11and he'd seen us here,
0:42:11 > 0:42:13he'd, like, I think...
0:42:13 > 0:42:17that'd be probably one of the times that you'd see my dad cry.
0:42:18 > 0:42:21- It was good, wasn't it? - This is the first of many.
0:42:21 > 0:42:22You got me hooked.
0:42:23 > 0:42:27For Alan, today's been a chance to get a glimpse
0:42:27 > 0:42:29of David's tough childhood.
0:42:29 > 0:42:32For David, an opportunity to find out more
0:42:32 > 0:42:34about the father he never knew.
0:42:34 > 0:42:36The past is...
0:42:36 > 0:42:38Not dead any more, it's alive,
0:42:38 > 0:42:40and I think that, um...
0:42:41 > 0:42:46..for me, it's a, kind of, a form of getting to know somebody.
0:42:46 > 0:42:49It's such a good thing, even though they are not with us.
0:42:49 > 0:42:51It's been absolutely brilliant.
0:42:51 > 0:42:58I've learned so much more now about David and the life that he's had.
0:42:58 > 0:43:01He's got me into the pie and mash now, so that's it.
0:43:01 > 0:43:03THEY LAUGH