0:00:02 > 0:00:09This film contains some strong language.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39If you say how the world is,
0:00:39 > 0:00:40that should be enough.
0:00:46 > 0:00:49Just the sense of simple connection between people.
0:00:53 > 0:00:54Just being.
0:01:04 > 0:01:07If you make films about people's lives,
0:01:07 > 0:01:09I think politics is essential.
0:01:11 > 0:01:14It is the essence of drama, the essence of conflict.
0:01:38 > 0:01:43Ken wants to make films about how the world is actually run.
0:01:46 > 0:01:50There are two powerful forces at work in society...
0:01:51 > 0:01:52..and they are enemies.
0:02:11 > 0:02:13Like all of us, he's a contradiction.
0:02:15 > 0:02:21Ken appears to be so respectable and well-mannered...
0:02:23 > 0:02:26..he doesn't seem to be a danger to anyone, does he?
0:02:28 > 0:02:30He could be at home at a vicar's tea party.
0:02:33 > 0:02:34But there he is, the most left-wing,
0:02:34 > 0:02:39subversive director this country has probably ever had...
0:02:39 > 0:02:41Perfect gentleman.
0:02:43 > 0:02:44Ken's acted brilliant.
0:03:02 > 0:03:03Bastards.
0:03:35 > 0:03:37You might be able to find something here that would work for...
0:03:39 > 0:03:41- ..the working flat.- Oh, yes.
0:03:41 > 0:03:42You know what I mean?
0:03:42 > 0:03:44Because suddenly you're in a whole different...
0:03:44 > 0:03:47Yes, it may take a while...
0:03:47 > 0:03:49We're almost at the mouth of the Tyne,
0:03:49 > 0:03:50so the River Tyne is just down there,
0:03:50 > 0:03:52then there's the Fish Quay area and...
0:03:52 > 0:03:56Today is, what, the 10th of July?
0:03:56 > 0:03:59And we'd like to start shooting the film on the 5th of October.
0:04:01 > 0:04:02That's three months.
0:04:02 > 0:04:04That's tight.
0:04:04 > 0:04:06It's all quite manageable, isn't it?
0:04:06 > 0:04:08Scale-wise.
0:04:08 > 0:04:10I had the phone call from Film Four,
0:04:10 > 0:04:15who were saying that they can't fund the film.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18They just don't think it would be a good enough investment for them.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20But I'm also talking to the BBC.
0:04:20 > 0:04:24My fear with the BBC is that, politically,
0:04:24 > 0:04:27the film may just be too tough for them to take on.
0:04:29 > 0:04:31It's quite iffy, really. It's quite edgy.
0:04:31 > 0:04:33God knows why I'm doing it, really.
0:04:33 > 0:04:35I must be mad.
0:04:35 > 0:04:38All things considered, it would be nice to be on that side,
0:04:38 > 0:04:39because then it'll be in shade.
0:04:39 > 0:04:41There's something quite...
0:04:42 > 0:04:43..well-kept about it.
0:04:43 > 0:04:46'You do have to be on your game.
0:04:46 > 0:04:48'That's the fear, isn't it, that you just let people down
0:04:48 > 0:04:50'and that you're just not sharp enough.'
0:04:53 > 0:04:55You miss a trick,
0:04:55 > 0:04:58and if you miss too many tricks in the course of shooting,
0:04:58 > 0:05:00then you don't do justice to the story.
0:05:03 > 0:05:04That's the...
0:05:04 > 0:05:05That's the danger
0:05:05 > 0:05:08of employing an old director.
0:05:08 > 0:05:09HE CHUCKLES
0:05:09 > 0:05:10Hmm.
0:05:10 > 0:05:14I think I should keep taking the...
0:05:14 > 0:05:17Keep the ointment and the pills
0:05:17 > 0:05:19and the elastic stockings and...
0:05:21 > 0:05:24..all the support mechanisms in place...
0:05:26 > 0:05:28..for the antique director.
0:06:10 > 0:06:12As they're approaching the bell tower,
0:06:12 > 0:06:14the noise is getting louder and louder...
0:06:14 > 0:06:17The rope's fairly long, so they can move about a bit.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20I first met Ken when I acted for him.
0:06:22 > 0:06:24He didn't direct the actors at all.
0:06:24 > 0:06:30I mean, I rehearsed for a week and we sort of barely met.
0:06:30 > 0:06:31I remember he was quite stroppy,
0:06:31 > 0:06:34and I did have second thoughts about casting him,
0:06:34 > 0:06:36cos he asked questions all the time.
0:06:36 > 0:06:39He looked sort of like a bank clerk, really.
0:06:40 > 0:06:42He made no impression on me.
0:06:42 > 0:06:44So that was my first impression of Ken -
0:06:44 > 0:06:46he made no impression.
0:06:52 > 0:06:56In the early '60s, the BBC was changing.
0:06:56 > 0:06:58They were expanding to BBC Two,
0:06:58 > 0:07:03so a number of working-class ruffians like...
0:07:03 > 0:07:05us got jobs,
0:07:05 > 0:07:07which we would never have got in the BBC before.
0:07:11 > 0:07:14We had one morning entitled What To Do With Your Cameras.
0:07:15 > 0:07:17There wasn't a rude reply, as you might imagine,
0:07:17 > 0:07:20but we were given a tour of a TV studio,
0:07:20 > 0:07:22but no kind of instruction at all.
0:07:23 > 0:07:26All right, very quiet now. Ready.
0:07:26 > 0:07:31BBC drama was photographed stage plays
0:07:31 > 0:07:34with clumsy electronic cameras in a studio.
0:07:35 > 0:07:39The working class were not represented...
0:07:39 > 0:07:41I do hope that the price for dropping this charge
0:07:41 > 0:07:43is not only a high one...
0:07:43 > 0:07:4518. Two next.
0:07:45 > 0:07:50..and posh actors could always play down, as they said.
0:07:50 > 0:07:51"Oh, I'm going Northern."
0:07:51 > 0:07:56It was a class-ridden English society,
0:07:56 > 0:07:59and we came in wanting to change it.
0:08:11 > 0:08:16We were asked to produce a series of contemporary single dramas
0:08:16 > 0:08:18about the world as it actually was.
0:08:21 > 0:08:23So, that was our brief,
0:08:23 > 0:08:24to stir up a bit of trouble.
0:08:30 > 0:08:35It was a magical medium to work with, and so that's compulsive.
0:08:38 > 0:08:43Because you're not only dealing with drama and actors
0:08:43 > 0:08:45and performance and telling a story,
0:08:45 > 0:08:51you're also dealing in images and light and movement.
0:08:51 > 0:08:52I mean, all those things.
0:09:20 > 0:09:23I moved to Battersea because I didn't like Chelsea.
0:09:25 > 0:09:28I got a job in a sweet factory, packing chocolate liqueurs...
0:09:31 > 0:09:33..and bought a little cottage for £700.
0:09:35 > 0:09:37There was always a big queue for the bath.
0:09:38 > 0:09:39And also, a telephone -
0:09:39 > 0:09:41there was always a big queue for the telephone.
0:09:41 > 0:09:44They had one queue for the bath, the other for the telephone,
0:09:44 > 0:09:46cos I think I was the only bath in the street.
0:09:48 > 0:09:49That's where I was,
0:09:49 > 0:09:51and so I wrote about what was around me.
0:09:51 > 0:09:55# I wanna be loved by you
0:09:55 > 0:09:59# Alone, scoop-boop-be-doop. #
0:10:04 > 0:10:07Where do think you're going, all dressed up like the Queen of Sheba?
0:10:07 > 0:10:09Ken found the book,
0:10:09 > 0:10:11and he was just aching to do it.
0:10:18 > 0:10:24They were just absolutely what I was looking for, because they were
0:10:24 > 0:10:28little events, little moments, little relationships.
0:10:28 > 0:10:34Get him worked up, give him a love bite, that'll do it.
0:10:34 > 0:10:37The lads taking the girls on the motorbikes and going round
0:10:37 > 0:10:41an empty house - it had an energy and a kind of febrile...
0:10:43 > 0:10:44..scent of danger.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51They became a script very quickly with just a little editing, really.
0:10:51 > 0:10:52He told me what HE wanted.
0:10:54 > 0:10:57He told me what he wanted, and I tried to do it.
0:10:59 > 0:11:02The problem was it had to be shot on location.
0:11:05 > 0:11:08And I put it through the works at the BBC, as though it were a
0:11:08 > 0:11:15studio show, so that there wouldn't be any alarm bells going off.
0:11:15 > 0:11:16Hey-hey!
0:11:17 > 0:11:21Ken had the lovely Tony Imi stripped off,
0:11:21 > 0:11:23with his camera held high above his head,
0:11:23 > 0:11:26filming these girls leaping in the water.
0:11:28 > 0:11:32Basically, we were saying that the working class people had sex.
0:11:32 > 0:11:37I mean, that's all right if you're doing...the aristocracy.
0:11:37 > 0:11:39I mean, they're allowed to.
0:11:39 > 0:11:42But the working-class people were having sex and enjoying it,
0:11:42 > 0:11:43and they weren't even married.
0:11:43 > 0:11:47I mean, this was... In 1965, this was horrifying.
0:11:49 > 0:11:53Every week, there were 18 to 20 million viewers.
0:11:53 > 0:11:56You knew that people were writing stuff
0:11:56 > 0:11:58about the people you came from.
0:11:58 > 0:12:00Quick, get the clobber!
0:12:00 > 0:12:04You know, they weren't plays with cucumber sandwiches
0:12:04 > 0:12:06and French windows. You know, they weren't.
0:12:12 > 0:12:15I would have cut my arm off to have...
0:12:16 > 0:12:17..got that film made...
0:12:18 > 0:12:21..because of the backstreet-abortion scene of Ruby.
0:12:27 > 0:12:32It was during the war, during the bombing, my mother got pregnant.
0:12:32 > 0:12:34They didn't want another child.
0:12:34 > 0:12:37Abortion was illegal, so it had to be...
0:12:38 > 0:12:40..an amateur.
0:12:41 > 0:12:43And something went wrong with it.
0:12:46 > 0:12:48And she died a few days later
0:12:48 > 0:12:50of what they called galloping septicaemia.
0:12:53 > 0:12:54I was five.
0:13:12 > 0:13:14Sometimes a film's an accident, you know,
0:13:14 > 0:13:20and sometimes it comes from a moment or a character or an incident.
0:13:22 > 0:13:25You know, Ken has been talking about
0:13:25 > 0:13:27hanging up his football boots.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30Excuse me while I laugh. Yes, hanging up his football boots.
0:13:30 > 0:13:31Now, the job centre...
0:13:31 > 0:13:34Again, we want it... If we're doing Newcastle, we want city centre...
0:13:34 > 0:13:37And of course, after the Tories coming back in again,
0:13:37 > 0:13:40with these welfare cuts and the sanctions,
0:13:40 > 0:13:43you could just see his anger rise again,
0:13:43 > 0:13:46and so I didn't think it would be long
0:13:46 > 0:13:48before he was on the hunt for another story.
0:13:48 > 0:13:49Cos, I mean, in this scene,
0:13:49 > 0:13:52it's just the sense of people waiting and wakening up,
0:13:52 > 0:13:54so it would just be the reception and the...
0:13:54 > 0:13:58Paul wrote a character, a very simple character -
0:13:58 > 0:14:03a man in his late 50s, early 60s who's trying to get back to work
0:14:03 > 0:14:06after caring for his wife and dropping out. He was a carpenter.
0:14:06 > 0:14:10Just the hurdles he faces, the difficulties he faces,
0:14:10 > 0:14:11the world that he faces.
0:14:11 > 0:14:15When the thing kicks off with Rachel and the two kids...
0:14:15 > 0:14:17Any film-maker who says,
0:14:17 > 0:14:20"I can change your mind," with absolute confidence -
0:14:20 > 0:14:21you just don't know.
0:14:21 > 0:14:26If we as human beings are touched by the story, and we do that well,
0:14:26 > 0:14:29then you've maybe got a chance of touching other people.
0:14:29 > 0:14:32That's what gives you the motive to actually do the damn thing,
0:14:32 > 0:14:35because there's something inside you that burns to do it.
0:14:50 > 0:14:54We lived in Nuneaton, which is in the middle of the Midlands.
0:14:54 > 0:14:56My dad was one of ten children.
0:14:57 > 0:15:00He did an apprenticeship as an electrician in the mine,
0:15:00 > 0:15:03and then he got this job in a machine tool factory.
0:15:20 > 0:15:21He worked seven days a week.
0:15:22 > 0:15:25He would go into the factory at six o'clock every morning,
0:15:25 > 0:15:27and be back at six o'clock at night.
0:15:31 > 0:15:33He did quite well, he became in charge of the maintenance
0:15:33 > 0:15:35and became a foreman.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44I mean, he had a huge respect for craftsmen, I mean, he...
0:15:44 > 0:15:49Craftsmanship. When we were doing Macbeth at school,
0:15:49 > 0:15:53he got a dagger made in the joinery workshop,
0:15:53 > 0:15:55and it was just immaculate.
0:15:55 > 0:15:58Just the delight in craftsmanship was...
0:16:00 > 0:16:02Was one of his defining characteristics, really.
0:16:07 > 0:16:10In a way, he was a working-class Tory,
0:16:10 > 0:16:12and the Daily Express came in to our house.
0:16:12 > 0:16:15Only later did I realise how right-wing it was.
0:16:22 > 0:16:26We had one week's holiday, and we would go to Blackpool.
0:16:28 > 0:16:31My mother, when asked where we were going, she'd say,
0:16:31 > 0:16:34"Blackpool, but the north side, the north end,"
0:16:34 > 0:16:37because that was seen as slightly more refined than the south end
0:16:37 > 0:16:41where the Pleasure Beach was, it was a bit too proletarian.
0:16:41 > 0:16:45But the big treat was seeing the shows and the great comics.
0:16:45 > 0:16:48Very much the humour of poverty, and the humour of...
0:16:49 > 0:16:50..bodily functions.
0:16:50 > 0:16:54The hysteria would be something to behold.
0:16:54 > 0:16:56People would weep, WEEP with laughter.
0:16:56 > 0:17:00And my old man, who was not given to a lot of laughter, would...
0:17:00 > 0:17:02He would be doubled,
0:17:02 > 0:17:04he'd have to get his handkerchief out to mop the tears
0:17:04 > 0:17:05as they ran down his face.
0:17:13 > 0:17:15Let me now ask our audience,
0:17:15 > 0:17:20how many of you have seen the play Cathy Come Home, or have heard about
0:17:20 > 0:17:23Cathy Come Home, have read about it in the newspapers or magazines,
0:17:23 > 0:17:25or heard it discussed?
0:17:25 > 0:17:27If you have, will you push your buttons?
0:17:27 > 0:17:29Let's just see how many of you know about Cathy Come Home.
0:17:29 > 0:17:30Let's have a quick look.
0:17:31 > 0:17:36Some 90% of our audience know Cathy Come Home.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39It was during that Wednesday Play season
0:17:39 > 0:17:43that Ken and I gravitated towards each other.
0:17:43 > 0:17:45We both wanted to do the same thing.
0:17:50 > 0:17:53We wanted to make films on real locations
0:17:53 > 0:17:57about the lives of actual people.
0:17:58 > 0:18:03Cathy Come Home had been turned down by the BBC twice
0:18:03 > 0:18:05as being too political.
0:18:05 > 0:18:07We could take your children into care and turn you out,
0:18:07 > 0:18:09- just like that. - Please don't do that.
0:18:09 > 0:18:12But we're not going to. We're going to give you one more chance.
0:18:12 > 0:18:15But I must emphasise, this is your last chance.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20We knew there was a housing problem,
0:18:20 > 0:18:24but I didn't know there were homeless, and neither did Ken.
0:18:30 > 0:18:31Come along then.
0:18:31 > 0:18:33That's it then, Cath.
0:18:35 > 0:18:37As you were doing it, you're thinking,
0:18:37 > 0:18:40"How can I shoot this in such a way that it is credible,
0:18:40 > 0:18:43"so that I really believe it?"
0:18:43 > 0:18:46If you were watching a documentary, you would believe it.
0:18:46 > 0:18:47So, that's our...
0:18:48 > 0:18:49..standard.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55We thought, "Let's shoot in sequence,"
0:18:55 > 0:19:00because then an actor has time to develop a character,
0:19:00 > 0:19:02to have a past and an unknown future.
0:19:05 > 0:19:08If you shoot the story in the chronological order
0:19:08 > 0:19:11it would have happened, you don't need to work out,
0:19:11 > 0:19:13"How would I feel if I'd been through that?"
0:19:13 > 0:19:16You know, and you just have that memory
0:19:16 > 0:19:18in your stomach, really.
0:19:18 > 0:19:21Somebody told me you've got these places they call halfway houses.
0:19:21 > 0:19:25Carol White was just a natural choice to play Cathy.
0:19:25 > 0:19:26Reg might come back to me.
0:19:26 > 0:19:28She could just be.
0:19:28 > 0:19:30He's drifting away from me.
0:19:30 > 0:19:33And that's great acting when you can get that.
0:19:33 > 0:19:38And Ken had the knack of encouraging that from an actor.
0:19:44 > 0:19:46It was so different to anything we'd ever seen before,
0:19:46 > 0:19:49because it was shot in an observed way and not in an immaculate way,
0:19:49 > 0:19:53but actually told the story
0:19:53 > 0:19:55more truthfully and more realistically
0:19:55 > 0:19:57than I think I'd ever seen before.
0:19:57 > 0:19:58Get back! Get back!
0:20:04 > 0:20:09Ken, as a director, was becoming much more confident -
0:20:09 > 0:20:12determined to get what he wanted for the film.
0:20:22 > 0:20:25There is one scene where Carol White has her children taken away from her
0:20:25 > 0:20:28at the railway station by social workers.
0:20:28 > 0:20:29It still stays with me.
0:20:29 > 0:20:32It's one of the strongest scenes I've ever seen in any film.
0:20:41 > 0:20:43You're not having my kids.
0:20:43 > 0:20:45You're not!
0:20:48 > 0:20:49SHE SCREAMS
0:20:59 > 0:21:01It had to be shocking.
0:21:01 > 0:21:03It couldn't be other than shocking.
0:21:03 > 0:21:05If we'd staged it with extras walking past,
0:21:05 > 0:21:07it just wouldn't have had the impact.
0:21:07 > 0:21:10We just put it in a real place and let it happen.
0:21:20 > 0:21:23The reception - it was extraordinary.
0:21:25 > 0:21:28At the first showing, the Daily Mail called Cathy Come Home,
0:21:28 > 0:21:30"A dramatic battering ram."
0:21:30 > 0:21:31The Guardian said it was,
0:21:31 > 0:21:34"Undoubtedly one of the most successful pieces
0:21:34 > 0:21:37"of social reforming drama we've had on television."
0:21:37 > 0:21:39People didn't know.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42I think there's been enormous confusion in the public mind
0:21:42 > 0:21:45as to whether this is, in fact, fact or fiction.
0:21:45 > 0:21:48I mean, what is there to prevent you next time, when you want to
0:21:48 > 0:21:50make your point a little more strongly,
0:21:50 > 0:21:52to introduce fictional statistics as well?
0:21:52 > 0:21:55Well, I thought it was a brilliant piece of propaganda
0:21:55 > 0:21:57of a highly charged and emotional kind.
0:21:57 > 0:22:00The script was written, there were 60-odd actors in it.
0:22:00 > 0:22:03The fact that Ken Loach is such a good director that the actors
0:22:03 > 0:22:06often don't look like actors is hardly my fault.
0:22:13 > 0:22:16Part of the enormous kerfuffle...
0:22:17 > 0:22:20..was an invitation to the Ministry.
0:22:21 > 0:22:26So, Ken Loach and I went down Whitehall
0:22:26 > 0:22:27to see the Minister.
0:22:34 > 0:22:40And we sat down in this huge, beautifully appointed office -
0:22:40 > 0:22:43I mean, I've never lived in anywhere as big as that -
0:22:43 > 0:22:46and it was very English.
0:22:46 > 0:22:51Tea was on quite nice china with biscuits,
0:22:51 > 0:22:54but then he said, "But what can one do?"
0:22:57 > 0:23:02And I looked at Ken and Jeremy, and I said, "Well, build more houses."
0:23:04 > 0:23:06And he looked at the senior civil servant
0:23:06 > 0:23:09who looked back and then went...
0:23:09 > 0:23:11Smiled at each other as though...
0:23:11 > 0:23:12HE SIGHS
0:23:12 > 0:23:14"If only it were that simple."
0:23:16 > 0:23:21We were ushered out into Whitehall and that was the end of it.
0:23:23 > 0:23:28I did kick myself afterwards that it wasn't more political.
0:23:30 > 0:23:32We'd let everybody off the hook.
0:23:52 > 0:23:56The starting point is, "What is the core of the story?"
0:23:58 > 0:23:59Are the people valid?
0:23:59 > 0:24:02Are they true? Is it significant?
0:24:02 > 0:24:03Is it worth telling?
0:24:04 > 0:24:07Then you've got to find people who can bring that to life.
0:24:10 > 0:24:14Then there's the qualities of the character, their age, their class,
0:24:14 > 0:24:18where they're from, all of which you can't hide,
0:24:18 > 0:24:20and you look for someone who can listen.
0:24:22 > 0:24:26He's trying to find some essential quality in the actor
0:24:26 > 0:24:27that he can use.
0:24:31 > 0:24:35It's less about acting, it's about, sort of...
0:24:35 > 0:24:36you as a person, I think.
0:24:42 > 0:24:45I think you want actors who don't put up defences.
0:24:45 > 0:24:49You want actors who let you into their minds, into their thoughts,
0:24:49 > 0:24:51into their weaknesses.
0:24:53 > 0:24:55And many actors erect defences. They have...
0:24:55 > 0:24:57They'll develop a technique,
0:24:57 > 0:25:01which is about giving the impression of something,
0:25:01 > 0:25:03and presenting something,
0:25:03 > 0:25:07but you want to get beyond that into who they really are.
0:25:07 > 0:25:12So, vulnerability is a really important quality.
0:25:12 > 0:25:14But then you have a responsibility not to exploit that,
0:25:14 > 0:25:16you know, they have to feel safe.
0:25:16 > 0:25:21They have to feel safe in order to allow themselves to be vulnerable.
0:25:32 > 0:25:35When Carol came for her audition,
0:25:35 > 0:25:38she had a gift of intimacy that's quite unusual.
0:25:40 > 0:25:41He saw her...
0:25:42 > 0:25:46I suppose, her talent, to be completely there.
0:25:46 > 0:25:48She was a nice girl, Carol.
0:25:51 > 0:25:53I think her big mistake was going to America.
0:25:55 > 0:25:57She should have stayed here.
0:26:00 > 0:26:01Carol White had a quality.
0:26:03 > 0:26:06She was undefended,
0:26:06 > 0:26:09and that worked when she was with people who cared about her,
0:26:09 > 0:26:11who loved her like Ken and I did.
0:26:11 > 0:26:14But then she was seduced into Hollywood,
0:26:14 > 0:26:17and they don't take prisoners there.
0:26:19 > 0:26:22And she got into drugs and emotional difficulties,
0:26:22 > 0:26:24and she died really quite young.
0:26:49 > 0:26:51Theatres have a magic about them.
0:26:55 > 0:26:58We had a theatre company used to visit every three weeks.
0:27:00 > 0:27:03I used to go and hang around like schoolboys do,
0:27:03 > 0:27:06just for some connection to these mysterious, magical people.
0:27:08 > 0:27:12But Dad had a passion that I should be educated,
0:27:12 > 0:27:14and was fierce in his instruction
0:27:14 > 0:27:16that I couldn't go out on weekdays.
0:27:29 > 0:27:32Only 60 boys a year passed the exam to go to the grammar school.
0:27:35 > 0:27:38It was a ladder for bright, working-class kids to get out.
0:27:44 > 0:27:47We had an election in school, it would have been the '50 election.
0:27:48 > 0:27:50To my shame, I stood as the Conservative candidate.
0:28:07 > 0:28:09Ken and I escaped.
0:28:09 > 0:28:11We were lucky.
0:28:11 > 0:28:15Why not my friend down our street who had to go to a secondary modern?
0:28:16 > 0:28:19So when a novel called A Kestrel For A Knave
0:28:19 > 0:28:22arrived on my desk, we read it in one day.
0:28:22 > 0:28:24And we said, "We're going to make a film of this."
0:28:27 > 0:28:31It went to something that Ken and I were very, very affected by.
0:28:34 > 0:28:36The fate of working-class adolescents.
0:28:40 > 0:28:43The central idea was that all kids are remarkable,
0:28:43 > 0:28:48and we learn something about one boy who is cast as a failure
0:28:48 > 0:28:50by the school and the world.
0:28:50 > 0:28:51But we know he isn't.
0:28:52 > 0:28:55And so we thought, well, if this is true,
0:28:55 > 0:28:58then we can go to any school and we will find Billy Casper.
0:29:01 > 0:29:03This is Billy Casper.
0:29:03 > 0:29:04Billy Casper cheats.
0:29:05 > 0:29:06Steals.
0:29:06 > 0:29:08Lies.
0:29:08 > 0:29:09Fights.
0:29:09 > 0:29:11Because... Well, because he has to.
0:29:15 > 0:29:19My dad was a coal miner, my mum was a seamstress,
0:29:19 > 0:29:21she'd worked as a cleaner.
0:29:21 > 0:29:23Whatever it took to make ends meet.
0:29:26 > 0:29:29I just knew I couldn't handle working in a coal mine.
0:29:32 > 0:29:35And then I received a letter, delivered by hand,
0:29:35 > 0:29:39and there in purple writing, it said something along the lines of,
0:29:39 > 0:29:44"Dear David, we would love for you to play the part of Billy Casper
0:29:44 > 0:29:47"in our film, A Kestrel For A Knave."
0:29:50 > 0:29:54I can't possibly explain how excited I was.
0:29:54 > 0:29:58I wasn't frightened, because I felt this is where I belonged, in a way.
0:30:29 > 0:30:30Come on.
0:30:32 > 0:30:33Come on.
0:30:52 > 0:30:55What determined a lot of the things about Kes, and the way it looks,
0:30:55 > 0:31:00begins with this central image of the bird which flies free
0:31:00 > 0:31:03and the boy who is trapped.
0:31:03 > 0:31:06That is clearly what connects to people.
0:31:23 > 0:31:26Ken and I, we quickly found a way that was particular
0:31:26 > 0:31:28and a good and simple way to work.
0:31:31 > 0:31:34Basically, dealing with people who hadn't acted before,
0:31:34 > 0:31:38how do you remove the camera crew from the experience?
0:31:42 > 0:31:45Our whole style of observational film-making
0:31:45 > 0:31:47came through conversations with Chris.
0:31:54 > 0:31:56We both saw the Czech films.
0:32:06 > 0:32:07The camera has its own...
0:32:09 > 0:32:11Its own sense of being a person observing.
0:32:13 > 0:32:16You become a person there.
0:32:17 > 0:32:20It seemed to bring out the humanity
0:32:20 > 0:32:22of the people in front of the camera.
0:32:39 > 0:32:42What I found amazing was that he trusted me so much.
0:32:43 > 0:32:47Ken would explain a scene to me in very brief terms,
0:32:47 > 0:32:52so that when we came to do the actual speech that Billy does
0:32:52 > 0:32:53in front of the class,
0:32:53 > 0:32:58I had only been given less than 24 hours to actually learn that scene.
0:32:58 > 0:33:02But I think Ken wanted that rough quality.
0:33:02 > 0:33:05Then, when it got to know me, I fed it on my glove.
0:33:05 > 0:33:10And after a while I put it two inches away from its claws.
0:33:10 > 0:33:12Like that, like.
0:33:12 > 0:33:15I didn't want him to learn it too word-for-word,
0:33:15 > 0:33:19because the point of the scene is not to tell the audience
0:33:19 > 0:33:21how to train a kestrel.
0:33:21 > 0:33:24The point of the scene is for a boy who can never string
0:33:24 > 0:33:27two words together to become articulate.
0:33:27 > 0:33:31I got about 70 yards from there, in the middle of the field,
0:33:31 > 0:33:33I called her.
0:33:33 > 0:33:37"Kes. Kes. Come on, Kes. Come on then."
0:33:37 > 0:33:38Nowt happened.
0:33:38 > 0:33:40So I thought, "Well, I better walk back and pick her up."
0:33:40 > 0:33:44So, when I were walking back, I saw her flying - she came like a bomb.
0:33:45 > 0:33:48About a yard off the floor, like lightning, head still,
0:33:48 > 0:33:51and you couldn't hear the wings - there weren't a sound
0:33:51 > 0:33:53from the wings. And straight on to the glove. Wham!
0:33:53 > 0:33:56And she'll grab me for the meat.
0:33:56 > 0:34:00Anyway, I were pleased with mysen...
0:34:07 > 0:34:09With Ken as a director,
0:34:09 > 0:34:14there is another side to his loving relationship with the actors,
0:34:14 > 0:34:16his capacity to allow.
0:34:18 > 0:34:20And that other side is his...
0:34:22 > 0:34:23..ruthlessness.
0:34:27 > 0:34:29The children being beaten in Kes...
0:34:31 > 0:34:34The fact that he would allow those kids to be beaten is horrific.
0:34:34 > 0:34:35I couldn't do that.
0:34:38 > 0:34:40No. He had a point to make,
0:34:40 > 0:34:45that the headmaster had only one response to this situation,
0:34:45 > 0:34:48and that was the response at that time in our history -
0:34:48 > 0:34:49beat the kids.
0:34:52 > 0:34:54Same old faces.
0:34:54 > 0:34:57Same old faces.
0:34:57 > 0:35:01We were told we weren't going to get hit, so we hold out our hands,
0:35:01 > 0:35:04thinking that this is when Ken Loach is going to say, "Cut."
0:35:05 > 0:35:06But he didn't.
0:35:06 > 0:35:07Ah!
0:35:10 > 0:35:13A regular little cigarette factory, aren't you?
0:35:13 > 0:35:15Sir.
0:35:19 > 0:35:20Put that rubbish away.
0:35:43 > 0:35:46Now, I hope it's going to be a lesson to you.
0:35:46 > 0:35:49I don't suppose for one minute it will be.
0:35:49 > 0:35:52I don't doubt, before the end of the week,
0:35:52 > 0:35:55you'll be back in here again for exactly the same crime - smoking.
0:36:00 > 0:36:08I've noticed only sons with devoted mothers to have characteristics
0:36:08 > 0:36:10that other people may not have.
0:36:12 > 0:36:14Their self-belief is absolute.
0:36:16 > 0:36:17They seem to retain...
0:36:18 > 0:36:23..the infantile omnipotence that is appropriate in a five-year-old.
0:36:26 > 0:36:27And if you become a film director,
0:36:30 > 0:36:33that omnipotence, as it were, can be preserved,
0:36:33 > 0:36:37because a world is created for you,
0:36:37 > 0:36:39in which you are omnipotent.
0:36:40 > 0:36:43And you can be quite benign,
0:36:43 > 0:36:47but it is your world to manipulate how you wish.
0:37:16 > 0:37:17She says it's not just her.
0:37:17 > 0:37:20There's four other women, four other families.
0:37:20 > 0:37:23It's me and my boys and four other families.
0:37:23 > 0:37:27And this... She was in a hostel, was she?
0:37:27 > 0:37:30My phone rang at about five o'clock, and it was my agent,
0:37:30 > 0:37:34and they said I'd got the part, and it was a real sort of...
0:37:34 > 0:37:36It was a bit ridiculous, really.
0:37:36 > 0:37:38It was a real moment.
0:37:38 > 0:37:40My mum was downstairs cooking dinner.
0:37:40 > 0:37:42I shouted her name really loudly
0:37:42 > 0:37:44and she dropped everything in the kitchen.
0:37:44 > 0:37:45Ken give me a ring as well just to say,
0:37:45 > 0:37:50"Glad you're onboard," and I thanked him and that was it.
0:37:50 > 0:37:54I think the girl that Paul's written is quite complex.
0:37:54 > 0:37:57You want the girl to be sharp, to have ambition,
0:37:57 > 0:37:59to see possibilities in the future.
0:37:59 > 0:38:01But, when tough times happen,
0:38:01 > 0:38:06I think I can imagine Hayley taking a realistic view of where she is
0:38:06 > 0:38:09and doing just what is necessary to survive.
0:38:09 > 0:38:13I suppose that's the battle at the beginning, isn't it, between the...?
0:38:13 > 0:38:16Getting out of that situation to here... So anything's got to be good.
0:38:16 > 0:38:19- But at the same time, there's some real shit...- Yes, yes, yes.
0:38:22 > 0:38:25It's like being a spy. It's like being a spy, it's like...
0:38:25 > 0:38:27You go, "Is there any sort of, like, script?"
0:38:27 > 0:38:31And you go, "Yeah, well, you get two pages in a toilet
0:38:31 > 0:38:36"in the centre of Newcastle behind the hot water pipes."
0:38:36 > 0:38:37And you go, "OK."
0:38:37 > 0:38:38It's really sort of quite...
0:38:41 > 0:38:45It's exciting, but it's also a bit sort of, "Oh, God, am I going to...
0:38:45 > 0:38:47"Am I going to get the stuff I need?"
0:38:47 > 0:38:49But, yeah, you know, he's made plenty of films
0:38:49 > 0:38:51so I'm sure the process works, you know.
0:38:53 > 0:38:55- I don't like that shirt for him. - No, no, no.
0:38:55 > 0:38:57It was just to get you in a...
0:38:57 > 0:38:58- Yeah, nice shirt.- Yeah.
0:38:58 > 0:39:01David is as close as I think we could find
0:39:01 > 0:39:02to the Dan that Paul wrote.
0:39:02 > 0:39:05He's the right age, he's a working-class man from Newcastle.
0:39:05 > 0:39:07He started work laying bricks
0:39:07 > 0:39:11and has experience doing comedy and some acting.
0:39:11 > 0:39:16It means he's got a real sense of how to deliver a performance.
0:39:17 > 0:39:19He communicates very directly, eye to eye.
0:39:19 > 0:39:22So, I think what he does is very truthful.
0:39:22 > 0:39:24Hi.
0:39:24 > 0:39:25We just wanted to show you this.
0:39:25 > 0:39:27You got it.
0:39:27 > 0:39:28It's the undertaker.
0:39:28 > 0:39:31Oh, my God, that's a bit serious.
0:39:31 > 0:39:34- Detective... - I have reason to suspect...
0:39:36 > 0:39:38I think this is probably too much, really.
0:39:38 > 0:39:40- Too smart?- Much too much. - Yeah.- Much too much.
0:39:40 > 0:39:44I mean, he looks like a Labour politician that you want to...
0:39:44 > 0:39:45Who's betrayed his promises.
0:39:49 > 0:39:55I was pretty surprised at the intensity with which, later on,
0:39:55 > 0:40:02all his work is imbued with a political flavour,
0:40:02 > 0:40:03very strong political flavour.
0:40:04 > 0:40:06So, yes, it was very surprising,
0:40:06 > 0:40:08because there wasn't any evidence of that
0:40:08 > 0:40:11in the years we were together when young.
0:40:21 > 0:40:23Oxford was an extraordinary experience.
0:40:27 > 0:40:30It was only then that I became really aware the ruling class
0:40:30 > 0:40:34had a face, and it was the faces of these gilded youths
0:40:34 > 0:40:38who inherited the world, and who expected to rule it.
0:40:38 > 0:40:39And did.
0:40:42 > 0:40:45I met Ken when we were both auditioning, I think,
0:40:45 > 0:40:47for a play in Oxford,
0:40:47 > 0:40:52and you'll see in the photograph a rather slenderer version of myself
0:40:52 > 0:40:55in the foreground, but in the background,
0:40:55 > 0:41:00giving a character performance, shall we say, is young Loach,
0:41:00 > 0:41:04heavily disguised by beard and on one leg and a crutch.
0:41:04 > 0:41:08All of which he made the very most of, and I detect,
0:41:08 > 0:41:12though I didn't detect it at the time, being heavily upstaged by Ken.
0:41:16 > 0:41:19He was much the same shape and size as he is now -
0:41:19 > 0:41:22slender, sylph-like indeed, maybe.
0:41:23 > 0:41:25Self-effacing.
0:41:25 > 0:41:27Apparently self-effacing.
0:41:28 > 0:41:31Nimble and brisk.
0:41:40 > 0:41:42That was a big event for my mother and father,
0:41:42 > 0:41:45to get to Oxford and to do law,
0:41:45 > 0:41:49but it became plain I wasn't going to be a lawyer,
0:41:49 > 0:41:51much to my mum and dad's dismay.
0:41:53 > 0:41:56My father said, "Well, you can go off and be an actor,
0:41:56 > 0:41:59"but you'll never have two pennies to rub together."
0:42:06 > 0:42:10When we came back from Barnsley, and he shot Kes -
0:42:10 > 0:42:12couldn't get it released.
0:42:12 > 0:42:14The exhibitor thought, "It won't take a penny,
0:42:14 > 0:42:16"so why waste money on marketing?"
0:42:17 > 0:42:20They'd open it in six cinemas in Yorkshire, thinking,
0:42:20 > 0:42:22"Oh, that'll be the end of that."
0:42:22 > 0:42:25And it broke the house record in every one.
0:42:25 > 0:42:27Then suddenly, we had a hit.
0:42:29 > 0:42:33While we were making it, I literally, sort of...
0:42:33 > 0:42:34What's been happening?
0:42:36 > 0:42:39And what had been happening were the May events in Paris in '68...
0:42:42 > 0:42:44..the Vietnam war was raging...
0:42:46 > 0:42:51..and disillusion, even amongst not very political people,
0:42:51 > 0:42:53with Wilson and the Labour government.
0:42:57 > 0:43:01I was interested in politics since my teens.
0:43:01 > 0:43:03I had known a lot of Communist Party members.
0:43:04 > 0:43:06Ken was not political...
0:43:07 > 0:43:11..but he became more and more interested in politics
0:43:11 > 0:43:13as we did our work together.
0:43:15 > 0:43:17And, of course, I introduced him to Jim Allen,
0:43:17 > 0:43:20which was another political step to the left.
0:43:23 > 0:43:26Jim Allen was a Manchester lad.
0:43:27 > 0:43:30A lot of people say up North, "He was as rough as a bear's arse."
0:43:32 > 0:43:34He'd been a docker,
0:43:34 > 0:43:38he'd worked on the barges, he'd been a bus conductor,
0:43:38 > 0:43:41and he obviously had this gift for writing.
0:43:43 > 0:43:44He was the opposite to Ken.
0:43:44 > 0:43:46They were chalk and cheese.
0:43:46 > 0:43:47We're very different people.
0:43:48 > 0:43:50He's a very private person.
0:43:53 > 0:43:55I'm a bit of an extrovert.
0:43:55 > 0:43:58I like to get drunk, I love pubs, etc.
0:43:58 > 0:44:00I think one thing that brings us together is that...
0:44:02 > 0:44:06..we have the same kind of political approach to life.
0:44:06 > 0:44:09We would like things to be different.
0:44:12 > 0:44:15I don't think Ken had been born with a silver spoon in his mouth,
0:44:15 > 0:44:18but I don't think he'd ever had the knocks or the hardship
0:44:18 > 0:44:20that Jim Allen had had.
0:44:21 > 0:44:23He knew about being blacklisted,
0:44:23 > 0:44:27he knew about being on the dole and out of work and stuff like that,
0:44:27 > 0:44:31and I think he was able to put it on paper, in writing,
0:44:31 > 0:44:32for Ken to understand.
0:44:39 > 0:44:44What he got was that there were two powerful forces at work in society.
0:44:44 > 0:44:46There is capital and there is labour,
0:44:46 > 0:44:48and they are enemies.
0:44:54 > 0:44:58If you make a film about a socialist movement,
0:44:58 > 0:45:01it's a given what the class conflict is.
0:45:03 > 0:45:05It's... How do you win the power?
0:45:06 > 0:45:08And who is there to stop you?
0:45:08 > 0:45:09CHEERING
0:45:11 > 0:45:13Solidarity!
0:45:13 > 0:45:16CROWD: # Solidarity forever
0:45:16 > 0:45:19# Solidarity forever. #
0:45:19 > 0:45:22Jim had been through it.
0:45:22 > 0:45:23What I want to know is,
0:45:23 > 0:45:26what is Brother Hagen doing about our long outstanding claim
0:45:26 > 0:45:28for a two and sixpence an hour increase?
0:45:28 > 0:45:33He knew about the betrayals of trade union bureaucrats.
0:45:33 > 0:45:35Now, listen, half a crown an hour, you must be bloody...
0:45:37 > 0:45:40He knew that the role of the Labour Party
0:45:40 > 0:45:44was to deliver the working class to betrayal.
0:45:45 > 0:45:48I believe that those are the men that can win the struggle,
0:45:48 > 0:45:52could win it much quicker only if we can get help from other workers.
0:45:52 > 0:45:55Jim made the ideas flesh in his writing.
0:45:55 > 0:46:00That drama of political argument, driven by need...
0:46:02 > 0:46:04..I think was the essence of drama, it was the essence of conflict.
0:46:10 > 0:46:14The problem with the BBC is that I didn't know how far I could push.
0:46:15 > 0:46:18If I didn't push far enough or hard enough,
0:46:18 > 0:46:20I'd be missing an opportunity.
0:46:20 > 0:46:22If I pushed too far, we'd be dead.
0:46:31 > 0:46:35As usual, with The Big Flame, I had not shown the BBC anything,
0:46:35 > 0:46:37because they would have hit the roof.
0:46:37 > 0:46:39I just said, "It's a love story,
0:46:39 > 0:46:44"a sort of Romeo and Juliet between the son and daughter of two dockers,
0:46:44 > 0:46:47"one Catholic and one Protestant."
0:46:47 > 0:46:50And that's what I told the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board,
0:46:50 > 0:46:52who owned our location.
0:46:54 > 0:46:56Now, everyone in favour of the resolution, please show.
0:46:57 > 0:47:01But what we actually did was get a strike going.
0:47:01 > 0:47:04And then the dockers stayed on the dock...
0:47:05 > 0:47:07..declaring a soviet.
0:47:07 > 0:47:11The root cause of our problem lies in the capitalist system of
0:47:11 > 0:47:15private ownership and calls for the nationalisation of the dock
0:47:15 > 0:47:19and the shipping industry under the workers' control.
0:47:19 > 0:47:22I was in London and I got a phone call to say the film was off,
0:47:22 > 0:47:25because the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board had seen the script.
0:47:25 > 0:47:28And I laughed, and said,
0:47:28 > 0:47:31"Do you honestly think the BBC would allow
0:47:31 > 0:47:36"a film about dockers declaring a soviet on the docks of...
0:47:36 > 0:47:40"Do you think they'd allow that to happen? Come on."
0:47:40 > 0:47:42And they were reassured.
0:47:42 > 0:47:46All day long, convoys of troops have been arriving as this takeover
0:47:46 > 0:47:50by 10,000 Merseyside dockers enters its second day.
0:47:50 > 0:47:53And eventually, of course, the Army was brought in.
0:47:53 > 0:47:57They were betrayed by their so-called friends and leaders
0:47:57 > 0:48:01and ended up in court and were sent to jail.
0:48:01 > 0:48:05This theory of social revolution becomes as dangerous
0:48:05 > 0:48:08as a loaded pistol in the hands of a criminal.
0:48:08 > 0:48:11Officer, arrest those two men.
0:48:11 > 0:48:17I think Ken's politics gelled in that early work with Jim and me,
0:48:17 > 0:48:19and when he got it, he got it.
0:48:23 > 0:48:24And...
0:48:24 > 0:48:26you won't shift him now.
0:48:26 > 0:48:30Obviously, we use the hallway, we use this room, the kitchen,
0:48:30 > 0:48:33the bathroom, the stairs.
0:48:33 > 0:48:37'If you make films about people's lives, politics is essential.'
0:48:39 > 0:48:43When she collapses, we'll probably take some stuff round here...
0:48:44 > 0:48:49If you're making a film about a family, what determines those lives?
0:48:49 > 0:48:52And then at some point,
0:48:52 > 0:48:55she'll make her way round the bed
0:48:55 > 0:48:58and then we'll cut to him on that shot.
0:48:58 > 0:49:01The starting point is, where do we live?
0:49:01 > 0:49:02What work do you do?
0:49:02 > 0:49:05How does that affect your relationship?
0:49:05 > 0:49:07Do you go on holiday? What did your parents do?
0:49:07 > 0:49:09What was your upbringing?
0:49:12 > 0:49:17They're all this result of political struggle over generations.
0:49:17 > 0:49:20So, in a way, you can't walk away from it.
0:49:29 > 0:49:32The present situation is not the fault of the miners.
0:49:34 > 0:49:38We are the victims of an industry that has been ruined
0:49:38 > 0:49:41by private ownership, and this private ownership
0:49:41 > 0:49:43is also ruining the country.
0:49:49 > 0:49:53We would've gone on working together,
0:49:53 > 0:49:55but things were closing down.
0:49:59 > 0:50:02The regime at the BBC made it plain that we weren't welcome.
0:50:11 > 0:50:13The British film industry...
0:50:13 > 0:50:16There was certainly no place for the kinds of films that we wanted to do.
0:50:20 > 0:50:22There was a period when he couldn't find the money for his films,
0:50:22 > 0:50:25and neither could anyone else.
0:50:25 > 0:50:27And what happened was that my generation,
0:50:27 > 0:50:31we all went to the United States and we were able to make films about
0:50:31 > 0:50:35American life in a way that Ken absolutely was not prepared to do.
0:50:39 > 0:50:41Family Life - in England, they said it didn't take enough
0:50:41 > 0:50:43to pay the usherettes.
0:50:43 > 0:50:47Black Jack - that opened in a soft porn cinema in Leeds.
0:50:47 > 0:50:50What it was doing up there, God knows.
0:50:52 > 0:50:53With that track record,
0:50:53 > 0:50:56there was no chance of getting a feature film made.
0:51:05 > 0:51:08It was as though a time was over,
0:51:08 > 0:51:10a period of one's life was over.
0:51:15 > 0:51:19Ken was also in a state of some...
0:51:20 > 0:51:21..difficulty.
0:51:22 > 0:51:24It was very...
0:51:24 > 0:51:25personal.
0:51:32 > 0:51:34It certainly changes you.
0:51:35 > 0:51:40I mean, anyone who loses a child will be changed with it forever.
0:51:44 > 0:51:47Before that, you know what a kind of happiness is,
0:51:47 > 0:51:49and after that you never do.
0:51:49 > 0:51:53And there's a stone in your stomach that never goes away, really.
0:51:53 > 0:51:54So...
0:52:01 > 0:52:06We were driving along the M1 on a Sunday.
0:52:06 > 0:52:09A car on an inside lane
0:52:09 > 0:52:10had a defective...
0:52:10 > 0:52:11Was defective in some way.
0:52:11 > 0:52:16A wheel came off, the car drove into us, it pushed us into a bridge,
0:52:16 > 0:52:17the upright of a bridge.
0:52:20 > 0:52:24My wife, Lesley, was...
0:52:24 > 0:52:28Fought for her life for six weeks and survived.
0:52:29 > 0:52:31Her grandmother was killed.
0:52:31 > 0:52:34Our eldest son,
0:52:34 > 0:52:38who was seven, survived, and I survived.
0:52:39 > 0:52:41Our second son, who was five, was killed.
0:52:45 > 0:52:46And that's...
0:52:48 > 0:52:50..how that happened, really.
0:52:50 > 0:52:51And...
0:52:51 > 0:52:53Well, it...
0:52:53 > 0:52:55Well, it changes you.
0:53:27 > 0:53:30- MARGARET THATCHER:- We will not disguise our purpose,
0:53:30 > 0:53:31nor betray our principles.
0:53:33 > 0:53:36We will do what must be done.
0:53:36 > 0:53:39We will tell the people the truth,
0:53:39 > 0:53:42and the people will be our judge.
0:53:57 > 0:53:58I was struggling.
0:54:00 > 0:54:05And there was this sudden desperate mood in the country.
0:54:08 > 0:54:12Day after day, factories were going to the wall.
0:54:12 > 0:54:13Mass unemployment.
0:54:13 > 0:54:14And this was raging.
0:54:18 > 0:54:21I didn't know how to respond.
0:54:26 > 0:54:28So, I tried documentaries,
0:54:28 > 0:54:31but with disastrous consequences.
0:54:34 > 0:54:37Three cheers for the destruction of Maggie's government.
0:54:37 > 0:54:38Hip-hip!
0:54:38 > 0:54:42Central Television proposed this series of films by Ken Loach,
0:54:42 > 0:54:45wonderful film-maker, about the British trade union movement.
0:54:45 > 0:54:48Hooray. Commissioned immediately.
0:54:50 > 0:54:53In the press, all you would read about were union barons
0:54:53 > 0:54:55encouraging their members to strike.
0:54:55 > 0:54:56The reverse was the case.
0:54:59 > 0:55:03People at the shop-floor level were ready to fight Thatcher,
0:55:03 > 0:55:05but the trade union leaders were doing a deal.
0:55:05 > 0:55:08That is the biggest load of codswallop that I have ever heard.
0:55:08 > 0:55:11Because we obtained, for...
0:55:11 > 0:55:14The films arrived. Unfortunately, each one said,
0:55:14 > 0:55:17"The leaders of the trade union movement had betrayed the workers.
0:55:17 > 0:55:20"The leaders of the trade union movement had betrayed the workers,"
0:55:20 > 0:55:21and film number three said,
0:55:21 > 0:55:24"The leaders of the trade union movement had betrayed the workers."
0:55:24 > 0:55:26How can those at the bottom...
0:55:26 > 0:55:28how can the working class actually control the leaders?
0:55:28 > 0:55:31The chairman of Channel 4 thought,
0:55:31 > 0:55:33"This is a left wing rant, I'm not having it."
0:55:33 > 0:55:35And they stopped them.
0:55:35 > 0:55:37But the way they did it is very interesting,
0:55:37 > 0:55:39because they did it in a very British way.
0:55:39 > 0:55:42They didn't say, you know... Like, if it was in Poland or somewhere,
0:55:42 > 0:55:44they'd say, "OK, you're sent to... Go to the salt mine."
0:55:44 > 0:55:45They didn't say that.
0:55:45 > 0:55:48They said, "Let's think about this.
0:55:48 > 0:55:50"Let's provide a little balance."
0:55:50 > 0:55:52I don't mind dealing with the questions. What I don't want to be
0:55:52 > 0:55:55is tricked into saying something, then you're going to marry it
0:55:55 > 0:55:56to something somebody else says.
0:55:56 > 0:55:59It was quite clear that the trade union leaders knew
0:55:59 > 0:56:01what was going on, they knew what Ken was up to,
0:56:01 > 0:56:04and they did everything they possibly could to ban the films.
0:56:04 > 0:56:08I think, as far as I'm concerned, you've not been fair with me.
0:56:08 > 0:56:11And if you want to put this on the camera, you can.
0:56:11 > 0:56:15At which point, the chair of the channel announced that he had taken
0:56:15 > 0:56:18unilateral action and he'd sent the films back to Central
0:56:18 > 0:56:19as untransmittable.
0:56:21 > 0:56:22End of story.
0:56:33 > 0:56:37The miners' strike was the pivotal event of our post-war history,
0:56:37 > 0:56:39and everybody knew what was at stake -
0:56:39 > 0:56:42it was the success of the Thatcher project, or its defeat.
0:56:45 > 0:56:50I tried the usual channels to make a film about it, without success.
0:56:50 > 0:56:51Everybody said no.
0:56:51 > 0:56:53Who am I to ask them why
0:56:53 > 0:56:55this pit must live,
0:56:55 > 0:56:57that pit must die?
0:56:57 > 0:57:00Ken came and said, "Look, a lot of good work's being done here,
0:57:00 > 0:57:03"there's a lot of poetry and songs coming out of the strike,
0:57:03 > 0:57:05"and I'd like to do a film about that."
0:57:05 > 0:57:06And I said, "What a great idea.
0:57:06 > 0:57:08"Let's do it."
0:57:08 > 0:57:10These treble lines of blue
0:57:10 > 0:57:13that escort the scabs through the gates...
0:57:13 > 0:57:16I think he thought he'd made an arts film.
0:57:20 > 0:57:22There was a pause again when we'd made it, and they said,
0:57:22 > 0:57:25"I don't think we're going to be able to show this."
0:57:25 > 0:57:28ITV companies in those days, 15 of them,
0:57:28 > 0:57:32every so often had to rebid for the right to broadcast.
0:57:32 > 0:57:36And the power of withholding the franchise was being murmured about
0:57:36 > 0:57:37and being invoked.
0:57:40 > 0:57:43I said, "Well, that's what they're writing about.
0:57:43 > 0:57:45"If you listen, this is what their poems are about,
0:57:45 > 0:57:47"this is what their songs are about,
0:57:47 > 0:57:50"about police brutality."
0:57:50 > 0:57:51"Can't show that."
0:57:51 > 0:57:53We are talking about people who are losing their franchises,
0:57:53 > 0:57:56ie, an entire company's future.
0:57:56 > 0:58:00And they saw this looming, because Ken had been banned over there,
0:58:00 > 0:58:02as some of them thought, for good reasons.
0:58:02 > 0:58:05I mean, it was like that at that stage...
0:58:05 > 0:58:06I don't think that's good enough.
0:58:06 > 0:58:08I mean, you either believe...
0:58:08 > 0:58:11You either have integrity as a broadcaster or you don't.
0:58:11 > 0:58:14I think they had no integrity by suppressing it.
0:58:24 > 0:58:29We must have overheard that the films were being cancelled,
0:58:29 > 0:58:34and we just became completely incensed that this was happening,
0:58:34 > 0:58:36and thought we would write to Channel 4.
0:58:36 > 0:58:39I think we might have written a couple of letters, I think we might
0:58:39 > 0:58:42have written, and then a couple of weeks later, written again,
0:58:42 > 0:58:46to say that Dad was really tired,
0:58:46 > 0:58:50and had been going up and down to London a lot,
0:58:50 > 0:58:52and we thought that was outrageous.
0:58:54 > 0:58:58It was a touching act of family solidarity,
0:58:58 > 0:59:00which was very nice of them.
0:59:00 > 0:59:02He was mortified that we...
0:59:04 > 0:59:05..had all written.
0:59:05 > 0:59:08I mean, it's excruciatingly embarrassing
0:59:08 > 0:59:10and completely undermined his authority.
0:59:25 > 0:59:29In the midst of this failure to get anything broadcast at all,
0:59:29 > 0:59:33Jim Allen had been beavering away on a play.
0:59:46 > 0:59:48I thought it fell within the spectrum
0:59:48 > 0:59:49of work that we could support.
0:59:51 > 0:59:53I knew that it would be...
0:59:54 > 0:59:57..provocative, but I had little idea how provocative
0:59:57 > 1:00:00and what a storm it would raise.
1:00:02 > 1:00:05I went to the Royal Court and I met Ken,
1:00:05 > 1:00:09his polite, charming, quiet, self-effacing self,
1:00:09 > 1:00:10and I thought to myself,
1:00:10 > 1:00:14"How did this guy direct that stuff?"
1:00:16 > 1:00:17Because I had expected
1:00:17 > 1:00:20a more Oliver Stone-type presence, you know.
1:00:23 > 1:00:25Two weeks into the rehearsal,
1:00:25 > 1:00:29we began to hear the rumblings of discontent.
1:00:29 > 1:00:32Good evening. You won't have seen Jim Allen's
1:00:32 > 1:00:35controversial courtroom drama, Perdition.
1:00:37 > 1:00:40The play is based on the events which led to the extermination
1:00:40 > 1:00:44of Hungarian Jews, and accuses Zionist leaders of collaborating
1:00:44 > 1:00:48with Nazi Adolf Eichmann in sending them to the gas chambers.
1:00:50 > 1:00:58Jim found this story that a deal was done by certain Zionist leaders
1:00:58 > 1:01:00in Budapest,
1:01:00 > 1:01:03that they would keep secret from the other Jews who were going to get on
1:01:03 > 1:01:07the trains, they would keep secret the destination of those trains,
1:01:07 > 1:01:12provided Eichmann gave permission for 1,000 or several thousand Jews
1:01:12 > 1:01:14to escape to Palestine.
1:01:15 > 1:01:18And it was a shocking, shocking bargain.
1:01:21 > 1:01:25People who hadn't read the play were beginning to give judgment about it.
1:01:25 > 1:01:27They were saying that the play was anti-Semitic and that it was
1:01:27 > 1:01:30selective in what it showed.
1:01:30 > 1:01:33What would you say was Eichmann's biggest problem, Dr Yaron?
1:01:33 > 1:01:40And, within a week, every newspaper had a huge full-page article.
1:01:42 > 1:01:44This was serious.
1:01:46 > 1:01:48Outside, a storm was brewing.
1:01:50 > 1:01:53One of the actors had a swastika painted on his door.
1:01:55 > 1:01:57There was a sense that this was now a kind of...
1:01:57 > 1:02:01Not just a controversial play, but a potentially dangerous play.
1:02:04 > 1:02:07My relationship with Ken broke down completely.
1:02:09 > 1:02:11He had an inflexible set of principles
1:02:11 > 1:02:13that really couldn't be questioned.
1:02:15 > 1:02:18I suppose I became more and more uncomfortable with my position
1:02:18 > 1:02:19of defending the play.
1:02:21 > 1:02:23Jim Allen, you've seen, around this table,
1:02:23 > 1:02:29the offence your play has created and the distress it causes.
1:02:29 > 1:02:32Do you still think it would be right to put it on?
1:02:32 > 1:02:36Yes. It causes distress to these people who are here
1:02:36 > 1:02:38as the representatives of Zionism.
1:02:38 > 1:02:40It lets the skeletons out of the cupboard
1:02:40 > 1:02:43and they will do anything possible to prevent the public
1:02:43 > 1:02:45seeing Perdition and making up their own mind.
1:02:45 > 1:02:48They bowed to pressure. Just before we were due to open,
1:02:48 > 1:02:51I said, "Max, you'll have to tell the cast and it's your decision".
1:02:51 > 1:02:56So they sat in the auditorium and he sat on the stage,
1:02:56 > 1:02:58and he said he was going to cancel it.
1:02:59 > 1:03:02And they tore him to pieces.
1:03:05 > 1:03:07Ken Loach stood on that stage,
1:03:07 > 1:03:10and I really wish that I had memorised what he said,
1:03:10 > 1:03:13but it was articulate and it was...
1:03:15 > 1:03:16..ruthless
1:03:16 > 1:03:19and it was accusatory.
1:03:19 > 1:03:22He left the stage like a broken man, and well he should be.
1:03:22 > 1:03:25I mean, I think that was despicable.
1:03:25 > 1:03:27I mean, I think I made two mistakes.
1:03:27 > 1:03:29One was on putting the play on,
1:03:29 > 1:03:31and the second was on taking it off.
1:03:32 > 1:03:36So I am not proud of my own behaviour over that time.
1:03:36 > 1:03:37But, at the same time,
1:03:37 > 1:03:43we headed into an area that I thought was far from clear.
1:03:43 > 1:03:46Max is... It was not a mistake, it was cowardice.
1:03:46 > 1:03:50Cowardice isn't a mistake, it's a choice, and it's a moral choice.
1:03:50 > 1:03:52He chose cowardice.
1:03:53 > 1:03:57What he reminds me of is of the old knights who used to go at each other
1:03:57 > 1:04:03with big long lances and try to kill each other from their horses.
1:04:03 > 1:04:10Ken is much more of the kind of knight who dislodges the other rider
1:04:10 > 1:04:15with his lance and then stands gently and respectfully over them
1:04:15 > 1:04:20as he pushes back a small opening in their armour
1:04:20 > 1:04:21and slits a vein
1:04:21 > 1:04:23and watches them bleed to death.
1:04:25 > 1:04:28And he did that in the Royal Court that day,
1:04:28 > 1:04:30and I watch him do it when he's on television.
1:04:30 > 1:04:34You see, the thing about it is, what they call intractable,
1:04:34 > 1:04:35what they call unchanging...
1:04:38 > 1:04:40..it's what makes him be that powerful.
1:04:40 > 1:04:44And it's a wonderful thing to see such quiet power.
1:04:44 > 1:04:46It's an amazing...
1:04:46 > 1:04:48It's an amazing thing to watch.
1:04:48 > 1:04:50And I would not like to cross him.
1:05:04 > 1:05:08Every son or child, I think, remembers that moment
1:05:08 > 1:05:11when they realise their dad is not all-powerful
1:05:11 > 1:05:13and can't sort out every situation.
1:05:17 > 1:05:20It was the first time I'd really seen him
1:05:20 > 1:05:23with a sort of defeated look on his face.
1:05:32 > 1:05:35We were forbidden to talk about the commercials -
1:05:35 > 1:05:37it's even now a kind of elephant in the room.
1:05:38 > 1:05:41I think it was either make them or we move house.
1:05:50 > 1:05:53After that experience, I was pretty well unemployable, really.
1:05:55 > 1:05:57It didn't sit very happily with...
1:05:57 > 1:06:02With me at the time, having expressed the views I'd expressed,
1:06:02 > 1:06:03but I didn't see the alternative, really.
1:06:03 > 1:06:06Come on, man. Flick it in, go on.
1:06:06 > 1:06:08Useless! Absolutely useless!
1:06:08 > 1:06:10How can you miss from the six-yard box, tell me that?
1:06:10 > 1:06:12Your mum could do better than that.
1:06:12 > 1:06:13Useless!
1:06:15 > 1:06:18(Caramac. The golden creamy bar.)
1:06:19 > 1:06:22I did one for McDonald's, yeah,
1:06:22 > 1:06:25which, erm, sits really badly on my conscience.
1:06:25 > 1:06:27- You like that? - I do like it, but do you?
1:06:27 > 1:06:29Well, let's have that, then. I love it, really.
1:06:29 > 1:06:33- Honestly, really. - He's driving me mad.
1:06:33 > 1:06:34Big Mac. I'll have a Big Mac, please.
1:06:34 > 1:06:37100% beef, 100% big.
1:06:37 > 1:06:39Sometimes only a Big Mac will do.
1:06:40 > 1:06:44Here's me berating other people for betrayal, and I've done that.
1:07:06 > 1:07:12When we were growing up, there was a complete firewall, I would say,
1:07:12 > 1:07:16between our family life and the film industry.
1:07:16 > 1:07:19OK, here we go. And turning over...
1:07:19 > 1:07:21And... OK, Dave.
1:07:21 > 1:07:23We thought Ken Loach was somebody else.
1:07:23 > 1:07:26You know, we thought he was another person.
1:07:26 > 1:07:28Good, that worked quite nicely.
1:07:28 > 1:07:30Yeah, we'll just try one more like that.
1:07:30 > 1:07:32I remember, when I was very young,
1:07:32 > 1:07:36kind of realising that he was my dad, you know.
1:07:36 > 1:07:38And up to that point I think we'd thought
1:07:38 > 1:07:40he was someone else entirely.
1:07:40 > 1:07:43Don't go in. Who's put that pillock in?
1:07:43 > 1:07:45Jesus Christ.
1:07:45 > 1:07:46He was always away a lot,
1:07:46 > 1:07:48working away from home.
1:07:48 > 1:07:49So, he wasn't around.
1:07:49 > 1:07:53There were times when he wasn't around very much.
1:07:53 > 1:07:54We'll race back as soon as we can.
1:07:54 > 1:07:57Can you bear one more? Can you bear it, yeah?
1:07:57 > 1:08:00There is a side of him that works,
1:08:00 > 1:08:04and there is also a quiet side to my dad,
1:08:04 > 1:08:07quiet and reflective and quite private.
1:08:09 > 1:08:11Get the lad!
1:08:11 > 1:08:17Ken Loach is fearless, indestructible, fiercely loyal,
1:08:17 > 1:08:19absolutely driven.
1:08:19 > 1:08:20Fucking hell.
1:08:20 > 1:08:24But my dad is very distinct from that person.
1:08:27 > 1:08:30As a failed actor, he loves musicals.
1:08:30 > 1:08:32He loves dancing, and he loves...
1:08:32 > 1:08:34Not that he dances, thank God.
1:08:34 > 1:08:38But he does love musicals and, sort of, the more camp
1:08:38 > 1:08:41and the more glossy they are, the better.
1:08:42 > 1:08:46# One singular sensation
1:08:46 > 1:08:49# Every little step she takes. #
1:08:49 > 1:08:51It's not contradictory to me.
1:08:52 > 1:08:57I guess, in musicals, they have quite a sort of simple morality,
1:08:57 > 1:08:59which, I guess, you know, is quite nice, isn't it?
1:08:59 > 1:09:01And I suppose it's escapism.
1:09:01 > 1:09:04You know... And he's a bit camp, isn't he?
1:09:04 > 1:09:06So, he likes all that.
1:09:06 > 1:09:07He likes men dressing up.
1:09:12 > 1:09:14- KENNETH WILLIAMS:- Hold hands. This is an upstick.
1:09:14 > 1:09:16Up with your sticks, this is a hand-hold.
1:09:16 > 1:09:18- I beg your pardon. - I mean, this is a stick up.
1:09:18 > 1:09:23The first professional job I got was understudying in a revue called
1:09:23 > 1:09:25One Over The Eight.
1:09:25 > 1:09:26Oh, stop messing about.
1:09:26 > 1:09:30Kenneth Williams and Sheila Hancock were the leads.
1:09:30 > 1:09:33There was this funny little man who was understudying Kenneth.
1:09:33 > 1:09:36I mean, it's an unlikely place for him to have been.
1:09:38 > 1:09:40I have an image of him in the wings.
1:09:40 > 1:09:41I think he was a bit scared.
1:09:44 > 1:09:46We had to go through the dance routines with an actor
1:09:46 > 1:09:49called Jill Gascoigne - she had to gallop across the stage.
1:09:49 > 1:09:54As she arrived, I had to grab her round the waist and swivel her over
1:09:54 > 1:09:55and put her upright.
1:09:55 > 1:09:57And I was hopeless at this.
1:09:57 > 1:10:01And she was a bonny lass, she was not...
1:10:01 > 1:10:04sylph-like, at least, but, I mean, very...
1:10:05 > 1:10:07Good dancer. But I would seize her round the waist,
1:10:07 > 1:10:09and she'd be saying, "Get me over, get me over!"
1:10:09 > 1:10:12And, invariably, she would end up with her head on the floor
1:10:12 > 1:10:14and her legs waving
1:10:14 > 1:10:17and my anxious face peering in between them.
1:10:26 > 1:10:28Well, he just suddenly turned up at the theatre.
1:10:28 > 1:10:34He was a very strange-looking young man with a rolled umbrella and a tie
1:10:34 > 1:10:37and a suit and a briefcase.
1:10:37 > 1:10:38I mean, it was funny.
1:10:40 > 1:10:43He played Br'er Fox, and that's how I met him.
1:10:45 > 1:10:47To me, when he was on stage,
1:10:47 > 1:10:51his brain always worked marginally before his instincts,
1:10:51 > 1:10:55so that he sort of thought about it and then acted it.
1:10:57 > 1:10:58It's a bit naughty to say this,
1:10:58 > 1:11:03but he was the sort of actor he wouldn't dream of employing,
1:11:03 > 1:11:04if you know what I mean.
1:11:10 > 1:11:12Curious journey people go on...
1:11:24 > 1:11:27Ken didn't make a film for nearly 12 years.
1:11:31 > 1:11:35Here was a first-class director who had actually been virtually silent
1:11:35 > 1:11:37in the cinema for a decade.
1:11:38 > 1:11:41TRAILER: An American has been murdered in Northern Ireland.
1:11:41 > 1:11:44Police said the car failed to stop at a roadblock outside Dungannon.
1:11:44 > 1:11:48And a high-ranking British inspector has been assigned to the case.
1:11:48 > 1:11:51When he made Hidden Agenda, nobody would put it on.
1:11:51 > 1:11:53Nobody would even give it a press show.
1:12:00 > 1:12:02I think you lose confidence, you know,
1:12:02 > 1:12:05if you go for a few years and you don't make a film, you think,
1:12:05 > 1:12:08"I'm not going to be able to do it again. I'm going to forget the words to say."
1:12:14 > 1:12:16It went to Cannes.
1:12:16 > 1:12:18The right-wing press went for us.
1:12:18 > 1:12:21There was a Tory MP who denounced it before he'd seen it,
1:12:21 > 1:12:26a familiar tale, where he said it was the IRA entry at Cannes.
1:12:26 > 1:12:28Hidden Agenda.
1:12:28 > 1:12:30Every government has one.
1:12:32 > 1:12:34The film was a success at Cannes,
1:12:34 > 1:12:36despite that,
1:12:36 > 1:12:38and he was known again,
1:12:38 > 1:12:40and suddenly he was able to make films.
1:12:49 > 1:12:51When he made Riff-Raff,
1:12:51 > 1:12:54the National Film Theatre took it up,
1:12:54 > 1:12:57and the critics all said, "Wonderful film."
1:12:57 > 1:12:59And the bathroom here, which I think you'll find very impressive.
1:12:59 > 1:13:01SPLASHING
1:13:01 > 1:13:03THEY GASP
1:13:03 > 1:13:05THEY SHOUT IN OWN LANGUAGE
1:13:05 > 1:13:06What are you doing here?
1:13:06 > 1:13:08Who are you?
1:13:08 > 1:13:09Who are you?
1:13:09 > 1:13:10I'm checking the plumbing.
1:13:10 > 1:13:11Get out of there.
1:13:14 > 1:13:16Everything seems to be working.
1:13:28 > 1:13:31Once the political climate had changed a little,
1:13:31 > 1:13:37and once it became possible to raise a bit of money from Channel 4,
1:13:37 > 1:13:40or even cobble together a bit of distribution money around Europe...
1:13:41 > 1:13:42..he just...
1:13:44 > 1:13:46..took off where he'd left off
1:13:46 > 1:13:47with an opportunity.
1:13:51 > 1:13:55He found a group of people that shared his outlook
1:13:55 > 1:13:57and wanted to make films with him.
1:13:59 > 1:14:04I certainly remember him carrying himself much freer,
1:14:04 > 1:14:05just being happier.
1:14:10 > 1:14:13He knows that he's found...
1:14:15 > 1:14:17..what he's looking for when he finds it.
1:14:21 > 1:14:23I got a phone call off him.
1:14:23 > 1:14:25"Rick," he said, "I'm doing this movie," he said,
1:14:25 > 1:14:28"and it's about more or less a battered wife.
1:14:28 > 1:14:30"She's got to have had a couple of kids to this fella,
1:14:30 > 1:14:33"a couple of kids to that fella, been knocked about and battered."
1:14:33 > 1:14:37He said, "But I can't find what I want, can you help me out?"
1:14:37 > 1:14:39And I said, "How many do you want?"
1:14:39 > 1:14:41And he went, "No, I'm serious." I said, "So am I."
1:14:42 > 1:14:44He picked a girl called Crissy Rock.
1:14:45 > 1:14:50# Come along and share the good times while we can
1:14:50 > 1:14:53# I beg your pardon
1:14:53 > 1:14:54# I never promised... #
1:14:54 > 1:14:56I said, "Look, if I'm not what you want
1:14:56 > 1:14:58"or I think you made a mistake,
1:14:58 > 1:15:01"you can sack me and tell me to go and I'll understand,
1:15:01 > 1:15:02"cos I'm not really an actress."
1:15:02 > 1:15:04Woooooo!
1:15:04 > 1:15:06And he goes, "No, but I trust you.
1:15:08 > 1:15:09"I know you can do this."
1:15:19 > 1:15:21As a director, the most precious thing you've got
1:15:21 > 1:15:23is the actor's instinct.
1:15:24 > 1:15:28If you've acted a bit yourself, you know, however badly,
1:15:28 > 1:15:31you know how open actors can be and how vulnerable they can be,
1:15:31 > 1:15:33and how easily they can be blown off-course.
1:15:37 > 1:15:40He's got that gift to go inside.
1:15:42 > 1:15:45He talks to you and he says,
1:15:45 > 1:15:48"If this is happening, how would you handle that?"
1:15:48 > 1:15:50I'm Kevin McNally from Social Services.
1:15:50 > 1:15:53- This is my colleague... - Sarah Thompson.
1:15:53 > 1:15:57He actually makes you believe that you're that person.
1:15:57 > 1:16:02We came to a decision last week where we will have to take the baby
1:16:02 > 1:16:05- to a place of safety... - What's safer than here?
1:16:05 > 1:16:08The baby is safe, and you have no right, and you have...
1:16:08 > 1:16:10We can go with the baby to the court if we want.
1:16:10 > 1:16:11But you don't need to take, OK?
1:16:11 > 1:16:15- It is something that... - Just go to your office!
1:16:15 > 1:16:17- Jorge, it's illegal... - Just leave us!
1:16:17 > 1:16:20The anguish of losing your children when in fact
1:16:20 > 1:16:22you are capable of looking after them...
1:16:22 > 1:16:25I mean, that was the point of the story.
1:16:27 > 1:16:29It's a kind of well of experience.
1:16:31 > 1:16:34People have said, "Well, this isn't acting, she's just being herself."
1:16:34 > 1:16:38But, actually, the ability to tap into your own emotions
1:16:38 > 1:16:43and express them in a fictional scene is absolutely acting.
1:16:48 > 1:16:49You don't realise he's doing it.
1:16:51 > 1:16:55So you're just raw, he just picks a raw piece of silk up,
1:16:55 > 1:16:57and he makes it into a beautiful purse.
1:17:00 > 1:17:01Neil. Neil.
1:17:01 > 1:17:03You OK?
1:17:03 > 1:17:04Right.
1:17:04 > 1:17:07Right, one word before we start.
1:17:07 > 1:17:09We hear it, we hear it.
1:17:09 > 1:17:13And if you do it really realistically, it sounds right.
1:17:13 > 1:17:16If you don't do it realistically, it sounds wrong.
1:17:16 > 1:17:18Hayley, Hayley.
1:17:18 > 1:17:20Do you mind just being there?
1:17:20 > 1:17:23I'm working from somewhere I've never worked before,
1:17:23 > 1:17:24which is not having seen a script.
1:17:24 > 1:17:27It's kind of a dream, you know, shooting chronologically,
1:17:27 > 1:17:29not knowing what happens.
1:17:29 > 1:17:32It's what you want, because it means you're going to be able to do it
1:17:32 > 1:17:35then and there, and it's just about you and who you're with.
1:17:35 > 1:17:37- Would you like to go and see Agnes?- Agnes?
1:17:37 > 1:17:39When I went to the food bank, and we saw the extras outside,
1:17:39 > 1:17:41I found it really overwhelming.
1:17:42 > 1:17:45The reason it's so raw is because you're stepping into people's lives,
1:17:45 > 1:17:47and these people that are using this place,
1:17:47 > 1:17:50they're in this position and they're around you doing it with you.
1:17:50 > 1:17:52It'll be from there round to the fruit and veg.
1:17:52 > 1:17:56It's the purest environment you could ever have.
1:17:56 > 1:17:58That's what all this very,
1:17:58 > 1:18:04very precise preparation and precise casting is all to achieve,
1:18:04 > 1:18:06this truth, I guess.
1:18:10 > 1:18:13It fundamentally changed how I approach acting,
1:18:13 > 1:18:15and it's never been the same since.
1:18:15 > 1:18:17171, take 3...
1:18:19 > 1:18:22You know, there's no marks, there's no action, there's no cut.
1:18:23 > 1:18:27You don't have the script as your document, you're just...
1:18:27 > 1:18:32You're reacting as it happens, you know, on film.
1:18:32 > 1:18:36So, it becomes all emotion and not intellect.
1:18:36 > 1:18:38It's all right, it's all right.
1:18:38 > 1:18:39I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
1:18:39 > 1:18:41It's OK, it's OK.
1:18:41 > 1:18:44It was like going on this adventure with all these people
1:18:44 > 1:18:46who you became very, very close to.
1:18:53 > 1:18:57We had gone on this journey,
1:18:57 > 1:19:03which felt, to us, as close as it could possibly be to reality.
1:19:03 > 1:19:06Oh, Jesus Christ. I can't take much more of this.
1:19:11 > 1:19:15So by the end, certainly for me, it didn't feel like I was performing,
1:19:15 > 1:19:18I was just kind of swept up in this world that we'd created,
1:19:18 > 1:19:22that we were invested in, that felt completely authentic and real
1:19:22 > 1:19:25and truthful, and that was because Ken set it up that way.
1:19:35 > 1:19:38The reason to do films like the Spanish Civil War
1:19:38 > 1:19:42or the Irish Civil War - they're high points in our story.
1:19:44 > 1:19:48They're critical moments where if things had gone differently,
1:19:48 > 1:19:52we would have a different world now.
1:19:52 > 1:19:55We try to gather people who, if the situation were to recur,
1:19:55 > 1:19:57might do that again.
1:19:58 > 1:20:00It was a People's Army, to fight fascism.
1:20:02 > 1:20:05So, it was a very... It was a very...
1:20:05 > 1:20:08happy bunch of brothers and sisters.
1:20:08 > 1:20:10- How's your arm? - It's much better now,
1:20:10 > 1:20:12I had the stitches taken out two days ago.
1:20:14 > 1:20:17- What are you doing here? - Bernard gave me seven days' leave.
1:20:17 > 1:20:19And then it reached the point where Blanca,
1:20:19 > 1:20:24the girl who has really embodied the revolutionary spirit -
1:20:24 > 1:20:25she's shot.
1:20:25 > 1:20:28Of course, they didn't know this.
1:20:28 > 1:20:31I said, "Can I have a word?" And she said, "What's up?" and I said,
1:20:31 > 1:20:35"Look, I'm really sorry, but you get shot here."
1:20:37 > 1:20:39And she said, "But I don't want to die."
1:20:42 > 1:20:44And we both got quite upset, really.
1:20:52 > 1:20:55Of course, no-one knew about it, and they were just...
1:20:55 > 1:20:57Couldn't believe it, really, that she'd gone.
1:21:11 > 1:21:13And the Palme d'Or goes to...
1:21:13 > 1:21:15Ken Loach.
1:21:23 > 1:21:27What people in England don't realise is how much he is adored,
1:21:27 > 1:21:30not just in France, but all over Europe.
1:21:31 > 1:21:36Here is someone over 70 who still believes,
1:21:36 > 1:21:38and they find that very moving.
1:21:46 > 1:21:50We didn't expect the film to win the Palme d'Or, but then,
1:21:50 > 1:21:55what was remarkable was this, just, outburst of fury by Tory politicians
1:21:55 > 1:21:57and right-wingers.
1:22:00 > 1:22:03One of the most bizarre was a guy
1:22:03 > 1:22:05who wrote for the Telegraph, I believe,
1:22:05 > 1:22:07and he said...
1:22:08 > 1:22:11..that he hadn't seen the film and he didn't want to see the film,
1:22:11 > 1:22:15because he didn't need to read Mein Kampf
1:22:15 > 1:22:17to know what a louse Hitler was.
1:22:24 > 1:22:27We don't set out to provoke.
1:22:27 > 1:22:30The purpose of it is to try and understand how power operates,
1:22:30 > 1:22:33who has control of a narrative.
1:22:34 > 1:22:36The choices that a character makes...
1:22:37 > 1:22:40..are totally affected by the society in which they live.
1:22:41 > 1:22:43Like Robbie in Angels' Share...
1:22:45 > 1:22:48You know, he's a kid who's just become a dad,
1:22:48 > 1:22:52and he's totally caught by his history, by his family,
1:22:52 > 1:22:55but he's absolutely determined to just build a future
1:22:55 > 1:22:57for this baby in his arms.
1:22:59 > 1:23:03Or this kid, trying to buy a caravan,
1:23:03 > 1:23:05buying the drugs because there's no other way to earn some money
1:23:05 > 1:23:08so that he could rescue his mother and be with her.
1:23:15 > 1:23:18Even Looking For Eric, I mean,
1:23:18 > 1:23:21right behind that comedy on the surface is a disintegrating family.
1:23:21 > 1:23:24You know, so there is kind of tragedy in the laughter.
1:23:26 > 1:23:28Je suis...
1:23:28 > 1:23:30Eric Cantona.
1:23:30 > 1:23:31Fucking hell, it is you!
1:23:33 > 1:23:35What the fuck, man?!
1:23:35 > 1:23:37Wait till the fucking lads hear about this!
1:23:37 > 1:23:43You just hope that resonates without being explicit, you know.
1:23:43 > 1:23:46You see the delicate surface of those characters' lives.
1:23:49 > 1:23:52But the great political questions are a way down there,
1:23:52 > 1:23:54like the bottom of the iceberg.
1:24:12 > 1:24:14How could Ken be a political danger to anybody?
1:24:16 > 1:24:17He loves cricket.
1:24:19 > 1:24:22He would really be at home in the 18th century,
1:24:22 > 1:24:24cos he loves the architecture and the furniture.
1:24:28 > 1:24:31I got some e-mails from him last night, and I thought,
1:24:31 > 1:24:35"God, he's on e-mail." I mean, "He's discovered e-mail."
1:24:35 > 1:24:37What's happened?
1:24:37 > 1:24:39He even disliked the phone.
1:24:41 > 1:24:43He's a very conservative...
1:24:45 > 1:24:46..quiet gentleman.
1:24:49 > 1:24:50The point is that Ken...
1:24:52 > 1:24:54..will not be deterred.
1:24:59 > 1:25:04I'm not a shirker, a scrounger, a beggar nor a thief.
1:25:05 > 1:25:09I'm not a national insurance number or blip on a screen.
1:25:10 > 1:25:14I paid my dues, never a penny short, and proud to do so.
1:25:16 > 1:25:19I don't tug the forelock, but look my neighbour in the eye
1:25:19 > 1:25:21and help him if I can.
1:25:27 > 1:25:31Here he is now, coming up to 50 years of film-making...
1:25:33 > 1:25:39..and the politics comes first, not in a party superficial manner,
1:25:39 > 1:25:42but you can only have the energy to do that
1:25:42 > 1:25:44if there's something burning inside you.
1:25:44 > 1:25:49It's like he's got this big V8 engine in this skinny little body,
1:25:49 > 1:25:50and that just drives him on.
1:25:52 > 1:25:55And I think, even if he probably wanted to stop,
1:25:55 > 1:25:56I'm not sure he could, really.
1:26:00 > 1:26:04He is speaking for the people who are not catered to,
1:26:04 > 1:26:06what they call the voiceless.
1:26:07 > 1:26:11People walk out of theatres and say, "Yeah, I really...
1:26:11 > 1:26:13"That was just like watching the people down the road."
1:26:20 > 1:26:24Ken wanted people to recognise, from the inside,
1:26:24 > 1:26:27their own lives reflected back to them,
1:26:27 > 1:26:30and that was politics.
1:26:34 > 1:26:37Given the tides of political conflict,
1:26:37 > 1:26:40trying to make little films in the middle of that is like a cork
1:26:40 > 1:26:43bobbing on the waves - it doesn't stop the tide.
1:26:44 > 1:26:47You are a small voice amongst many,
1:26:47 > 1:26:49many much louder voices.
1:26:49 > 1:26:51Is it worth doing? I don't know.
1:26:52 > 1:26:55It's like Marlon Brando, you know, in Rebel Without A Cause.
1:26:55 > 1:26:57They say, you know, "What are you rebelling against?"
1:26:57 > 1:26:59He said, "What have you got?" And whatever institution,
1:26:59 > 1:27:02whatever government, whoever's there, Ken would...
1:27:02 > 1:27:04It wouldn't be good enough for Ken.
1:27:05 > 1:27:07Bastards.