0:00:03 > 0:00:05Ah, Johnny, we only met two or three times,
0:00:05 > 0:00:09but the first time I met Johnny Cash, uh,
0:00:09 > 0:00:12was at some awards show -
0:00:12 > 0:00:19I don't know if it was one of those Waldorf Astoria sort of jobs -
0:00:19 > 0:00:24and...I went to the john, you know?
0:00:24 > 0:00:27And I walk in and there is one other guy in there
0:00:27 > 0:00:29and he was taking a piss, you know?
0:00:29 > 0:00:33Uh...so I went in the cubicle
0:00:33 > 0:00:38and as I got in, I said, "Dammit," to myself,
0:00:38 > 0:00:43I said, "That's Johnny Cash. That is the old JC, man."
0:00:43 > 0:00:45So...
0:00:47 > 0:00:50When I'm taking a leak, I thought I'd hit him with...
0:00:50 > 0:00:52You know, "What's going to be interesting?
0:00:52 > 0:00:55"I'm not going to go with A Boy Called Sue."
0:00:55 > 0:00:59I start humming a song called Loading Coal...
0:01:01 > 0:01:04..which is very, very obscure Johnny Cash.
0:01:04 > 0:01:06Very obscure.
0:01:06 > 0:01:11And as I walked out, he turned round and looked at me,
0:01:11 > 0:01:16I looked at him and he said, "I ain't heard that song in years.
0:01:18 > 0:01:20"Only idiots know that song."
0:01:20 > 0:01:22And that's how I met Johnny Cash.
0:01:22 > 0:01:26It is very rare in this world that you can be who you are
0:01:26 > 0:01:28from beginning to end.
0:01:28 > 0:01:31Most people change completely
0:01:31 > 0:01:37or they, sort of, suddenly meld into the woodwork and become...
0:01:37 > 0:01:42It's not easy to stick around in show business.
0:01:42 > 0:01:43I mean...
0:01:46 > 0:01:49Sometimes you wonder, "What the hell am I still doing here?"
0:01:49 > 0:01:52But I've been thinking that for about 40 years,
0:01:52 > 0:01:53so I've got over it.
0:01:53 > 0:01:57But at the same time, you know, Johnny and I had that...
0:01:59 > 0:02:02We were fellow travellers in a way.
0:02:02 > 0:02:04You can be a tough guy but you can be, you know,
0:02:04 > 0:02:07at the same time, sensitive and shit,
0:02:07 > 0:02:08just like me.
0:02:11 > 0:02:14Songwriting, you know, where do your songs come from?
0:02:14 > 0:02:17I have no idea where they come from.
0:02:17 > 0:02:20I have especially never wanted to think of myself as, you know,
0:02:20 > 0:02:22"I created this, this is mine."
0:02:22 > 0:02:24The songs...
0:02:25 > 0:02:30Music is passing through this room as we talk right now, Julian,
0:02:30 > 0:02:32except we are talking.
0:02:32 > 0:02:36If I had a piano or a guitar,
0:02:36 > 0:02:41I might pick one up, you know, but I firmly believe...
0:02:43 > 0:02:45It's not a creation.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48It is a matter of listening and luck.
0:02:48 > 0:02:51I'm like an antenna, a receiver.
0:02:52 > 0:02:54I just sit down with an instrument -
0:02:54 > 0:02:57it might be the piano, it might be - probably - the guitar,
0:02:57 > 0:02:58most of the time,
0:02:58 > 0:03:03and I'll play other people's songs just because I love them.
0:03:03 > 0:03:07I might play Otis Redding songs, Buddy Holly,
0:03:07 > 0:03:09Eddie Cochrane, you know?
0:03:09 > 0:03:14Suddenly, now and again, somewhere,
0:03:14 > 0:03:18an original twist and an idea comes in.
0:03:20 > 0:03:21The muse...
0:03:21 > 0:03:23HE CHUCKLES
0:03:23 > 0:03:25A big word, with a capital M.
0:03:25 > 0:03:30And you get carried away on a totally different path.
0:03:30 > 0:03:33You can hear something out of a couple of chords
0:03:33 > 0:03:36that suddenly suggest a whole piece of music,
0:03:36 > 0:03:39and it might be just one wrong move,
0:03:39 > 0:03:44and if you're open-minded enough,
0:03:44 > 0:03:47you'll see, "No, that wasn't a screw-up,
0:03:47 > 0:03:51"that was a lead-in", you know?
0:03:51 > 0:03:53MUSIC: That'll Be The Day by Buddy Holly
0:03:53 > 0:03:56# Well, that'll be the day when you say goodbye
0:03:56 > 0:03:59# Yes, that'll be the day when you make me cry
0:03:59 > 0:04:03# You say you're gonna leave You know it's a lie
0:04:03 > 0:04:06# Cos that'll be the day when I die
0:04:06 > 0:04:09# Well, you give me all your loving and your turtle doving
0:04:09 > 0:04:13# All your hugs and kisses and your money too
0:04:13 > 0:04:16# Well, you know you love me, baby until you tell me, maybe
0:04:16 > 0:04:19# That some day, well, I'll be through
0:04:19 > 0:04:22# Well, that'll be the day when you say goodbye
0:04:22 > 0:04:26# Yes, that'll be the day when you make me cry
0:04:26 > 0:04:29# You say you're gonna leave You know it's a lie
0:04:29 > 0:04:32# Cos that'll be the day when I die
0:04:39 > 0:04:42# Well, that'll be the day when you say goodbye
0:04:42 > 0:04:45# Yes, that'll be the day when you make me cry
0:04:45 > 0:04:49# You say you're gonna leave You know it's a lie
0:04:49 > 0:04:52# Cos that'll be the day when I die
0:04:52 > 0:04:55# Well, that'll be the day
0:04:55 > 0:04:56# Woo-hoo
0:04:56 > 0:04:58# That'll be the day
0:04:58 > 0:04:59# Woo-hoo
0:04:59 > 0:05:01# That'll be the day
0:05:01 > 0:05:02# Woo-hoo
0:05:02 > 0:05:05# That'll be the day. #
0:05:07 > 0:05:08APPLAUSE
0:05:10 > 0:05:13Buddy Holly, incredible, incredible.
0:05:13 > 0:05:15Oh, the good die young.
0:05:15 > 0:05:20Guys like Buddy Holly, Eddie Cochrane, Gene Vincent.
0:05:20 > 0:05:22This is the hazards of this job, you know?
0:05:22 > 0:05:26Do you ever think about these guys, what they would have gone on to do?
0:05:26 > 0:05:31I constantly think about their possibilities.
0:05:31 > 0:05:37Eddie Cochrane's, Buddy Holly's, Otis Redding's, Jimi Hendrix.
0:05:37 > 0:05:40I constantly think about these people.
0:05:40 > 0:05:44My only advantage is that I'm still alive.
0:05:44 > 0:05:45HE LAUGHS
0:05:45 > 0:05:47So you can think...
0:05:47 > 0:05:48But the good die young,
0:05:48 > 0:05:51so where does that put me, you know what I mean?
0:05:51 > 0:05:56Buddy Holly, I mean, what a one-man tour de force!
0:05:58 > 0:06:01And to people like me and, I guess, to Mick as well,
0:06:01 > 0:06:08this is a guy that can...write 'em, play 'em...record 'em and...
0:06:08 > 0:06:11You know, a guy that, all by himself,
0:06:11 > 0:06:14could do everything, you know?
0:06:14 > 0:06:18Rather than this manufactured stuff that you're getting,
0:06:18 > 0:06:21the usual pap which you get these days.
0:06:21 > 0:06:22Even worse, probably.
0:06:22 > 0:06:25I mean, you know, it's a separate thing, because...
0:06:25 > 0:06:31White cats can do it too, you know?
0:06:31 > 0:06:35And to us, this was such an inspiration.
0:06:35 > 0:06:38I mean, we were in love with black music.
0:06:38 > 0:06:40I mean, they had the rhythms, the ideas,
0:06:40 > 0:06:45the slant aside of the lyrics and everything,
0:06:45 > 0:06:48and after you got that initial spark,
0:06:48 > 0:06:49for me, at least,
0:06:49 > 0:06:53the rest of the song leads me the rest of the way.
0:06:53 > 0:06:56You know, I'm lucky that way. Yeah?
0:06:56 > 0:07:01I've never sat down to say, "I'm going to write a song now."
0:07:01 > 0:07:04I always think I'm an amateur trying.
0:07:04 > 0:07:08I have a hard time thinking about myself as a pro.
0:07:08 > 0:07:11I can't write songs to order.
0:07:11 > 0:07:14To me, songwriters are guys that somebody calls up and says,
0:07:14 > 0:07:16"We need a song for Gone With The Wind
0:07:16 > 0:07:19"or Over The Rainbow", or something,
0:07:19 > 0:07:23and the guys can go to work and do that.
0:07:23 > 0:07:27I can't do that. Songs have to come to me.
0:07:27 > 0:07:29I can't manufacture things.
0:07:29 > 0:07:31I can't...
0:07:31 > 0:07:33I'm too lazy.
0:07:35 > 0:07:36Hoagy Carmichael.
0:07:37 > 0:07:40There was a great songwriter.
0:07:40 > 0:07:43He is in a couple of Warner Brothers movies
0:07:43 > 0:07:45with Bogart and Bacall.
0:07:48 > 0:07:53I think you can check him out best on To Have And Have Not.
0:07:53 > 0:07:57# Am I blue?
0:07:57 > 0:08:04# Ain't these tears in my eyes telling you?
0:08:04 > 0:08:07# Am I blue?
0:08:07 > 0:08:10# You'd be, too
0:08:10 > 0:08:13# If each plan with your man
0:08:13 > 0:08:16# Done fell through
0:08:16 > 0:08:20# Was a time
0:08:20 > 0:08:23# I was his only one
0:08:23 > 0:08:28# But now I'm the sad and lonely one
0:08:28 > 0:08:30# So lonely
0:08:30 > 0:08:36# Was I gay, till today
0:08:36 > 0:08:39# Now he's gone and we're through
0:08:39 > 0:08:42# Am I blue... #
0:08:42 > 0:08:43Take over.
0:08:43 > 0:08:45# Was the time...
0:08:45 > 0:08:49# I was his only one
0:08:49 > 0:08:52# But now I'm...
0:08:52 > 0:08:55# The sad and lonely one So lonely
0:08:55 > 0:08:59# Was I gay Was I gay
0:08:59 > 0:09:02# Till today Till today
0:09:02 > 0:09:05# Now she's gone and we're through Baby...
0:09:05 > 0:09:07# Am I blue
0:09:10 > 0:09:13ALL: # Am I blue. #
0:09:13 > 0:09:19I was in Barbados and the maid comes out of the house
0:09:19 > 0:09:24and says, "There's a Mr Carmichael on the phone."
0:09:26 > 0:09:28And, I mean, it went right by me.
0:09:28 > 0:09:32"I don't know any Carmichaels.
0:09:32 > 0:09:34"Give it to me anyway."
0:09:34 > 0:09:36And it's Hoagy Carmichael.
0:09:36 > 0:09:38Wow.
0:09:38 > 0:09:42He must've been in his mid-80s, or something like that.
0:09:43 > 0:09:47Sammy Khan gave me a little tape
0:09:47 > 0:09:50that I'd given another guy, a lawyer,
0:09:50 > 0:09:55but somehow Sammy Khan, another great songwriter,
0:09:55 > 0:09:58had given it to Hoagy and he said,
0:09:58 > 0:10:02"I really love the way you treated Nearness Of You."
0:10:02 > 0:10:04It was really...
0:10:04 > 0:10:06I think, "Wow..." You know?
0:10:06 > 0:10:09"This is Hoagy I'm talking to?"
0:10:09 > 0:10:12He said, "Yes, this is Hoagy Carmichael, you know?"
0:10:12 > 0:10:15He said, "Where are you? Barbados?"
0:10:15 > 0:10:16I said, "Yeah".
0:10:16 > 0:10:21He said, "Go down the bar and ask for Corn N' Oil",
0:10:21 > 0:10:26which is a really old Barbadian drink.
0:10:26 > 0:10:30It is actually rum and falernum, a heavy-duty mix,
0:10:30 > 0:10:36but...he told me, "By the way, I've got these other songs",
0:10:36 > 0:10:38and then he proceeded to try and sell me...
0:10:38 > 0:10:41I said, "I know every song you wrote, man. I know."
0:10:41 > 0:10:43HE LAUGHS
0:10:43 > 0:10:44But it was amazing.
0:10:44 > 0:10:47He was hitting on me, but at the same time,
0:10:47 > 0:10:50he'd heard a version that touched him.
0:10:50 > 0:10:53That, to me, was a real honour. You know?
0:10:55 > 0:10:56Talking about pros here.
0:10:56 > 0:10:59You know, I'm just a rock'n'roller.
0:10:59 > 0:11:02This guy has been writing songs since the '20s,
0:11:02 > 0:11:03you know what I mean?
0:11:04 > 0:11:08So, yeah, yeah, it was an extra buzz.
0:11:09 > 0:11:14# It's just the nearness of you
0:11:17 > 0:11:23# It's not the pale moon that excites me
0:11:23 > 0:11:26# Baby
0:11:26 > 0:11:29# That thrills and delights me
0:11:30 > 0:11:33# Oh, no
0:11:34 > 0:11:40# It's just the nearness of you... #
0:11:43 > 0:11:46'To know that you can touch people's emotions,
0:11:46 > 0:11:48'something that they can't control,'
0:11:48 > 0:11:53you can touch them through rhythm, through melody, through harmony...
0:11:53 > 0:11:57When you realise that you have written songs over 50 years
0:11:57 > 0:12:02and people are still singing them, you know, you start to say,
0:12:02 > 0:12:05"Well, maybe...maybe I'm pretty good at it."
0:12:05 > 0:12:09You know, to be a minstrel,
0:12:09 > 0:12:16especially a fairly successful one, is a good feeling. Hmm?
0:12:16 > 0:12:20How is it to have people say, "You're great", all the time?
0:12:20 > 0:12:22I tell you, you can get used to it, and you say,
0:12:22 > 0:12:25"Yeah, pull the other one, it's got bells on."
0:12:25 > 0:12:29CHIMING
0:12:29 > 0:12:32The most time, I take it as very, sort of, heartfelt
0:12:32 > 0:12:34and..."Thank you."
0:12:34 > 0:12:36You know?
0:12:36 > 0:12:38"Thanks for liking it."
0:12:38 > 0:12:43You only make music for other people to enjoy.
0:12:44 > 0:12:46We got one more we're going to do
0:12:46 > 0:12:47and then we're going to call up everybody.
0:12:47 > 0:12:50I've got my mojo working, woman. You hear me?
0:12:50 > 0:12:53MUSIC: Got My Mojo Working by Muddy Waters
0:13:13 > 0:13:18# Got my mojo working but it just don't work on you
0:13:20 > 0:13:25# Got my mojo working but it just don't work on you
0:13:28 > 0:13:33# I wanna love you so bad till I don't know what to do
0:13:36 > 0:13:40# I'm going down to Louisiana to get me a mojo hand
0:13:43 > 0:13:48# I'm going down to Louisiana to get me a mojo hand
0:13:51 > 0:13:56# I'm gonna have all you women right here under my command
0:13:58 > 0:14:00# Got my mojo working
0:14:00 > 0:14:02# Got my mojo working
0:14:02 > 0:14:04# Got my mojo working
0:14:04 > 0:14:06# Got my mojo working
0:14:06 > 0:14:08# Got my mojo working
0:14:08 > 0:14:10# Got my mojo working
0:14:10 > 0:14:12# Got my mojo working
0:14:12 > 0:14:14# Got my mojo working
0:14:14 > 0:14:19# Got my mojo working but it just don't work on you... #
0:14:19 > 0:14:21Lay it on me, son!
0:15:05 > 0:15:09# ..I got a gypsy woman givin' me advice
0:15:12 > 0:15:16# I got a gypsy woman givin' me advice
0:15:19 > 0:15:25# I got a whole lotta tricks keepin' her on ice
0:15:26 > 0:15:28# Got my mojo working
0:15:28 > 0:15:30# Got my mojo working
0:15:30 > 0:15:31# Got my mojo working
0:15:31 > 0:15:33# Got my mojo working
0:15:33 > 0:15:35# Got my mojo working
0:15:35 > 0:15:37# Got my mojo working
0:15:37 > 0:15:39# Got my mojo working
0:15:39 > 0:15:40# Got my mojo working
0:15:40 > 0:15:45# Got my mojo working but it just don't work on you
0:15:47 > 0:15:49# Got my mojo working
0:15:49 > 0:15:51# Got my mojo working
0:15:51 > 0:15:53# Brrr...working
0:15:53 > 0:15:55# Got my mojo working
0:15:55 > 0:15:56# Got my mojo working
0:15:56 > 0:15:58# Got my mojo working
0:15:58 > 0:16:00# Got my mojo working
0:16:00 > 0:16:02# Got my mojo working
0:16:02 > 0:16:07# Got my mojo working but it just don't work on you
0:16:07 > 0:16:09# Oh!
0:16:30 > 0:16:32# Got my mojo working
0:16:32 > 0:16:34# Got my mojo working
0:16:34 > 0:16:35# Got my mojo working
0:16:35 > 0:16:37# Got my mojo working
0:16:37 > 0:16:39# Brrr... Working
0:16:39 > 0:16:41# Got my mojo working
0:16:41 > 0:16:42# Got my mojo working
0:16:42 > 0:16:44# Got my mojo working
0:16:44 > 0:16:50# Got my mojo working but it just don't work on you... #
0:16:56 > 0:17:00CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:17:05 > 0:17:07WILD CHEERING AND WHISTLING
0:17:24 > 0:17:28# Got my mojo working but it just don't work on you
0:17:31 > 0:17:36# Got my mojo working but it just don't work on you
0:17:39 > 0:17:44# I wanna love you so bad till I don't know what to do
0:17:46 > 0:17:51# I'm going down to Louisiana to get me a mojo hand
0:17:53 > 0:17:58# I'm going down to Louisiana to get me a mojo hand
0:18:00 > 0:18:05# I'm gonna have all you women right here under my command
0:18:08 > 0:18:09# Got my mojo working
0:18:09 > 0:18:11# Got my mojo working
0:18:11 > 0:18:13# Got my mojo working
0:18:13 > 0:18:15# Got my mojo working
0:18:15 > 0:18:17# Got my mojo working
0:18:17 > 0:18:18# Got my mojo working
0:18:18 > 0:18:20# Got my mojo working
0:18:20 > 0:18:22# Got my mojo working
0:18:22 > 0:18:27# Got my mojo working but it just don't work on you... #
0:18:27 > 0:18:29Lay it on me!
0:19:12 > 0:19:14# Got my mojo working
0:19:14 > 0:19:15# Got my mojo working
0:19:15 > 0:19:17# Got my mojo working
0:19:17 > 0:19:19# Got my mojo working
0:19:19 > 0:19:21# Got my brrr...working
0:19:21 > 0:19:22# Got my mojo working
0:19:22 > 0:19:24# Got my mojo working
0:19:24 > 0:19:26# Got my mojo working
0:19:26 > 0:19:31# Got my mojo working but it just don't work you. #
0:19:43 > 0:19:44CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:20:03 > 0:20:07You know...thankful that I did get to see old London
0:20:07 > 0:20:10before they put up the Cucumbers and everything.
0:20:10 > 0:20:12Not that I don't like the Cucumber.
0:20:25 > 0:20:30The horse shit was the essence of growing up in those times.
0:20:30 > 0:20:33It was unique, you know,
0:20:33 > 0:20:36and I'll probably never smell it again.
0:20:36 > 0:20:38Unless somebody makes it up.
0:20:38 > 0:20:42I'd buy a few horses, let them crap all over the place,
0:20:42 > 0:20:47just to get the essence of the old town, you know?
0:20:47 > 0:20:48BOOM!
0:20:53 > 0:20:56That was London to me. Old London. Yeah.