0:00:05 > 0:00:11Everyone says that having a baby is the happiest time of your life.
0:00:12 > 0:00:13It wasn't like that for me.
0:00:13 > 0:00:18When I had my son Zach four years ago, I thought my life was over.
0:00:19 > 0:00:21I'm Stacey Solomon.
0:00:21 > 0:00:23I found fame as a finalist on the X Factor
0:00:23 > 0:00:26and went on to be crowned Queen of the Jungle.
0:00:27 > 0:00:30But behind the glamour, I had a secret.
0:00:30 > 0:00:35With the birth of my first son, I developed postnatal depression,
0:00:35 > 0:00:38an illness most mums are scared to talk about.
0:00:38 > 0:00:43I'm not ashamed or embarrassed to say that I was depressed at all,
0:00:43 > 0:00:46or that I had a form of mental illness, I suppose.
0:00:46 > 0:00:50One in 10 women develop postnatal depression,
0:00:50 > 0:00:55but for teenage mums like I was, almost 50% are affected.
0:00:55 > 0:00:57I was scared about admitting it
0:00:57 > 0:01:00because I was worried that social services would come in.
0:01:01 > 0:01:04For years, I stayed silent about what happened to me.
0:01:04 > 0:01:09But now I want to understand what postnatal depression really is.
0:01:09 > 0:01:10I'm going to talk to other teenage mums
0:01:10 > 0:01:13who are suffering as I did from this hidden illness.
0:01:15 > 0:01:17You're embarrassed to talk to anyone about it
0:01:17 > 0:01:20because there's just not any awareness.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22I want to find out what causes it...
0:01:22 > 0:01:26Since I got pregnant, the relationship seemed to just crumble.
0:01:26 > 0:01:28..what help is available...
0:01:28 > 0:01:31Then slide your hand down and then grasp the thigh.
0:01:33 > 0:01:37..and see why it should never be dismissed as the baby blues.
0:01:37 > 0:01:39I thought, if I die here, what difference does it make?
0:01:39 > 0:01:41I heard voices and that was it.
0:01:41 > 0:01:44What was the worst thing that you ever heard?
0:01:44 > 0:01:45Stab him.
0:01:45 > 0:01:49And for the first time, I'm going to be assessed
0:01:49 > 0:01:52by a psychotherapist to understand what I went through.
0:01:52 > 0:01:56I don't ever want him to think that I didn't love him, ever.
0:01:58 > 0:01:59- Made a new web.- Yeah!
0:01:59 > 0:02:01Maybe it's rainy on the other side.
0:02:01 > 0:02:03Look at that hole.
0:02:04 > 0:02:06Oh!
0:02:06 > 0:02:09That's the last thing that I would ever, ever want.
0:02:24 > 0:02:27'My two sons Leighton and Zachary mean more to me now
0:02:27 > 0:02:29'than anything else in the world.
0:02:30 > 0:02:33- Team talk, Mummy. - OK, team talk, what?
0:02:33 > 0:02:37But when Zach was born, I couldn't stop crying.
0:02:37 > 0:02:39I was 18 and I didn't want to be a mum.
0:02:44 > 0:02:47I'm at King George's Hospital which is really, really strange.
0:02:47 > 0:02:51I haven't been here since I gave birth to Zach four years ago.
0:02:51 > 0:02:54I just remember laying there thinking,
0:02:54 > 0:02:56"Oh, I've had a baby, I suppose."
0:03:02 > 0:03:05I just remember looking at him and he was just wriggling around.
0:03:05 > 0:03:08He didn't seem like my baby.
0:03:08 > 0:03:10It didn't seem like I'd just gave birth.
0:03:17 > 0:03:20'Coming here brings back all the horrible feelings
0:03:20 > 0:03:21'I had after Zach was born.
0:03:21 > 0:03:24'I wasn't a carefree teenager anymore.
0:03:24 > 0:03:27'Suddenly I was a mum with massive responsibilities.'
0:03:27 > 0:03:30Hello! Oh, well done, well done.
0:03:30 > 0:03:33- Can I have a cuddle?- Yeah.
0:03:33 > 0:03:34Aw, thank you!
0:03:34 > 0:03:37Aww...
0:03:38 > 0:03:41- She's lovely.- Thank you. - You must be so proud.- Yeah.
0:03:42 > 0:03:45'I didn't feel any kind of bond with my baby.
0:03:45 > 0:03:49'It felt like everything I did was wrong and all I could do was cry.'
0:03:50 > 0:03:55I remember that, that is what he slept next to me in for days.
0:03:56 > 0:03:58That is really strange.
0:03:58 > 0:04:01My now-four-year-old, who's at school,
0:04:01 > 0:04:03riding his scooter to school every day,
0:04:03 > 0:04:07happiest boy in the world, was right there in a little box next to me,
0:04:07 > 0:04:12helpless. And I didn't have anything going through my brain at the time.
0:04:12 > 0:04:15I just remember laying there thinking, "I can't move my legs,
0:04:15 > 0:04:17"I don't know what the baby wants,
0:04:17 > 0:04:21"I don't know if he's hungry, I don't know if he's just sad."
0:04:21 > 0:04:22I didn't... You just don't know.
0:04:32 > 0:04:36Now I look back, and I feel really... I feel really guilty.
0:04:36 > 0:04:39I feel guilty that I didn't get this burst of excitement and happiness.
0:04:39 > 0:04:41I feel really, really guilty,
0:04:41 > 0:04:45but at the same time I know that I'm not the only person in the world
0:04:45 > 0:04:47that has ever felt like that.
0:04:47 > 0:04:51To be honest, I can't wait to meet other people and feel normal,
0:04:51 > 0:04:54so that I'm not this horrible woman
0:04:54 > 0:04:58who...don't know, who felt things that I shouldn't have felt.
0:05:07 > 0:05:11I've never met another teenage mum who felt the way that I did.
0:05:11 > 0:05:14I'm going to Gloucestershire to meet Beth.
0:05:14 > 0:05:19She's 19 and gave birth to baby Rhianna just eight weeks ago.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22She was diagnosed with postnatal depression soon after.
0:05:23 > 0:05:26Splash, splash, splash!
0:05:26 > 0:05:28Beth planned the pregnancy with her boyfriend.
0:05:28 > 0:05:31And they live with Beth's mum and step-dad.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34Postnatal depression is usually diagnosed
0:05:34 > 0:05:36by a midwife or health visitor.
0:05:36 > 0:05:40They can then refer the mum to their GP, who should offer treatment.
0:05:42 > 0:05:45When did you realise that you had postnatal depression?
0:05:45 > 0:05:47When Rhianna was two weeks old.
0:05:47 > 0:05:49I felt a bit down,
0:05:49 > 0:05:53because I felt that she deserved better than me and stuff.
0:05:53 > 0:05:58And it really has changed me, really, being depressed.
0:05:58 > 0:06:01Didn't anyone ever explain to you about postnatal depression
0:06:01 > 0:06:03or anything like that before?
0:06:03 > 0:06:09My mum has in the past, but apart from that I haven't had anything.
0:06:09 > 0:06:11I was scared about admitting it,
0:06:11 > 0:06:14because I was worried that social services would come in
0:06:14 > 0:06:18and the people in the town would judge me.
0:06:18 > 0:06:21You just need help and you just need someone to talk to,
0:06:21 > 0:06:26and someone to get you through it, rather than being left on your own.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28- RHIANNA GRIZZLES - Ah, let me see her.
0:06:31 > 0:06:32Hello!
0:06:32 > 0:06:35- RHIANNA CRIES - Aw, aw, aw!
0:06:36 > 0:06:41What do you think triggered you to feel down?
0:06:41 > 0:06:42Did it just come on all of a sudden?
0:06:42 > 0:06:45It just came on all of a sudden. Cos when I was pregnant,
0:06:45 > 0:06:48I did get bullied a lot for being pregnant,
0:06:48 > 0:06:52because I'm a young mum and stuff like that.
0:06:52 > 0:06:54So did it scare you? Did it make you anxious then?
0:06:54 > 0:06:57I was scared about going out the house with my baby,
0:06:57 > 0:07:01because if they're OK to bully a pregnant woman,
0:07:01 > 0:07:05what are they going to do around a newborn baby?
0:07:05 > 0:07:08So I was worried I'd get abuse,
0:07:08 > 0:07:10and shouting and swearing at me,
0:07:10 > 0:07:13cos I didn't really want that around my baby.
0:07:13 > 0:07:14Where do you go from here?
0:07:14 > 0:07:17What can you do, and who is there to see?
0:07:17 > 0:07:20Do you have any classes or any, anywhere you can go?
0:07:20 > 0:07:23Nobody's offered me anything, any classes, no.
0:07:23 > 0:07:24That's really sad.
0:07:25 > 0:07:29For me, as much as it's sad to see, it's a real relief actually
0:07:29 > 0:07:34cos I don't feel like I've ever been open enough with myself,
0:07:34 > 0:07:35because I've always been scared that
0:07:35 > 0:07:37I was the only person that felt like that
0:07:37 > 0:07:39and the only person that had those thoughts.
0:07:39 > 0:07:43The weird thing is, nothing's being done about it,
0:07:43 > 0:07:46so there's no help, there's nothing further on.
0:07:46 > 0:07:48It's like you've been diagnosed,
0:07:48 > 0:07:51we know you've got postnatal depression and that's it.
0:07:51 > 0:07:55And I just feel like I really wish there was something more.
0:08:11 > 0:08:14Meeting Beth has taken me right back to my own feelings of guilt
0:08:14 > 0:08:16when Zach was born.
0:08:17 > 0:08:21This is my old bedroom, where me and Zach used to sleep.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26I'd never even heard of postnatal depression back then.
0:08:26 > 0:08:28After being diagnosed by my GP,
0:08:28 > 0:08:31I was scared to talk to anyone or get any help.
0:08:32 > 0:08:38I remember just feeling really...trapped in here,
0:08:38 > 0:08:40there was nothing else.
0:08:40 > 0:08:42Just me in a room with a baby.
0:08:42 > 0:08:45I remember being downstairs and sort of walking into the kitchen,
0:08:45 > 0:08:48thinking, "If I go in the kitchen,
0:08:48 > 0:08:50"I won't be able to hear him cry as much."
0:08:50 > 0:08:52I'd just wander around the house,
0:08:52 > 0:08:53thinking eventually he'll stop crying.
0:08:53 > 0:08:57Or maybe eventually I just won't be able to hear it.
0:08:57 > 0:09:00I remember sitting here, right here, by my mum's radiator...
0:09:00 > 0:09:03This is the grill where I made the toast.
0:09:03 > 0:09:08And just crying my eyes out, thinking "I can't make toast,
0:09:08 > 0:09:11"how am I going to look after a baby if I can't even make toast?"
0:09:11 > 0:09:13Then my mum came in from work,
0:09:13 > 0:09:15she must have thought, what are you doing?!
0:09:15 > 0:09:19I was sitting there crying at the grill and burnt toast.
0:09:20 > 0:09:24Now I look back and I think, what an idiot, what was wrong with me?
0:09:25 > 0:09:28But at the time it was so sad,
0:09:28 > 0:09:31I just thought, "I've got no... I'm the worst mum in the world."
0:09:33 > 0:09:37I really didn't want to tell anyone that that was how I felt.
0:09:37 > 0:09:41Cos I just felt wrong, like I wasn't supposed to feel like that.
0:09:41 > 0:09:43I want people to speak up about it,
0:09:43 > 0:09:47I want to be honest about it but even I'm nervous.
0:09:47 > 0:09:51I struggle to admit that's how I felt, cos of the stigma.
0:09:55 > 0:09:58I still feel like I don't really understand
0:09:58 > 0:10:00what caused me to feel that low.
0:10:00 > 0:10:01Before meeting any other mums,
0:10:01 > 0:10:05I want to find out more about what this illness really is.
0:10:07 > 0:10:11I'm at the North East London NHS Foundation Trust in Essex
0:10:11 > 0:10:14to meet psychotherapist Amanda Jones,
0:10:14 > 0:10:16an expert on postnatal depression.
0:10:16 > 0:10:18She founded the service here
0:10:18 > 0:10:21specifically to treat mums with emotional disorders.
0:10:23 > 0:10:26So what is postnatal depression?
0:10:26 > 0:10:31Depression, one knows, is generally a feeling of being low
0:10:31 > 0:10:35and of having loss of pleasure in anything.
0:10:35 > 0:10:38So postnatal depression would probably include
0:10:38 > 0:10:41a feeling that the mother has, or the father,
0:10:41 > 0:10:44that they get no pleasure from their baby,
0:10:44 > 0:10:47which is a terrible state to be in.
0:10:47 > 0:10:49The mother will be feeling that she's a terrible mother,
0:10:49 > 0:10:53she can't get anything right, her baby hates her.
0:10:53 > 0:10:57Just a sense of dark, sort of negative feelings,
0:10:57 > 0:11:01at a time when maybe somebody had expected to feel
0:11:01 > 0:11:03a sense of pleasure and joy.
0:11:03 > 0:11:06I don't feel that people that haven't...
0:11:06 > 0:11:09Not generalising everyone, but some of the people I've met
0:11:09 > 0:11:14that haven't been through that, actually class it as a real illness.
0:11:14 > 0:11:18It's more of a sort of, get over it, don't be silly, type thing.
0:11:18 > 0:11:20And I find that really difficult,
0:11:20 > 0:11:24cos how are you supposed to get any help with something
0:11:24 > 0:11:28that people don't believe is really an illness?
0:11:28 > 0:11:31I always find it really important to use the word "ill",
0:11:31 > 0:11:34because otherwise it minimises it.
0:11:34 > 0:11:37Even just saying the words postnatal depression
0:11:37 > 0:11:40can minimise just how serious the problem is.
0:11:40 > 0:11:43What kind of treatments are available?
0:11:43 > 0:11:47One would be psychological intervention,
0:11:47 > 0:11:49so that's the talking therapies,
0:11:49 > 0:11:52being able to offer a relationship
0:11:52 > 0:11:56where somebody can talk through their concerns and their worries,
0:11:56 > 0:12:00and there's also a range of different medications that may be helpful,
0:12:00 > 0:12:04antidepressant medications, for example.
0:12:04 > 0:12:07Amanda believes in treating both the mother and the baby,
0:12:07 > 0:12:11because the baby is also affected by the mum's depression.
0:12:12 > 0:12:15Her view is that spending NHS money at this stage
0:12:15 > 0:12:18could save on long-term care in the future.
0:12:20 > 0:12:24I do believe that actually if I had someone like you
0:12:24 > 0:12:29or somebody to talk to, I might not have felt that way.
0:12:29 > 0:12:31Once it has happened and once you are pregnant,
0:12:31 > 0:12:35how can we try and avoid postnatal depression?
0:12:35 > 0:12:39I would love to say in an ideal world across the country
0:12:39 > 0:12:42that people had access to as good a screening
0:12:42 > 0:12:45and as good a care pathways as we've got.
0:12:45 > 0:12:47I think it's much, much patchier than that
0:12:47 > 0:12:52and I think we're lucky enough to be within an organisation
0:12:52 > 0:12:56that absolutely, fundamentally sees the importance
0:12:56 > 0:12:59and the criticalness of babyhood, really,
0:12:59 > 0:13:02that the first two years of life matter,
0:13:02 > 0:13:05and it really matters to keep a mum and father
0:13:05 > 0:13:09as emotionally and mentally well as you can.
0:13:09 > 0:13:12But if I was living somewhere else in England,
0:13:12 > 0:13:17there might not be that care pathway at all and that really worries me.
0:13:22 > 0:13:25Talking to Amanda has made me wonder what happens to mums
0:13:25 > 0:13:29in other parts of the country, where specialist help isn't available.
0:13:34 > 0:13:38I'm on my way to meet 18-year-old Emma in Surrey.
0:13:38 > 0:13:41She gave birth to baby Ashley nine months ago.
0:13:41 > 0:13:44Emma was keen to start a family with her partner John,
0:13:44 > 0:13:48but she was diagnosed with postnatal depression soon after the birth.
0:13:50 > 0:13:53How long have you felt like it for?
0:13:53 > 0:13:55Well, since she was born really, I've had depression.
0:13:55 > 0:13:58I couldn't think about anything apart from being...
0:13:58 > 0:14:01apart from crying, I didn't want to do anything.
0:14:01 > 0:14:05I just felt so down, it was too hard to actually cope with anything.
0:14:05 > 0:14:08So he helped so much.
0:14:08 > 0:14:12Basically I wasn't doing everything, but I was doing most things.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15Like, changing her, getting up for her,
0:14:15 > 0:14:18and having to do everything while she was crying in the toilet.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21I had no idea what was going on with her.
0:14:21 > 0:14:24I didn't have a girlfriend, to be honest, I was a carer.
0:14:24 > 0:14:26And I had no idea what she was going through.
0:14:26 > 0:14:28- I bet you didn't either?- No. - It was horrible.
0:14:28 > 0:14:30I didn't want her to grow up thinking,
0:14:30 > 0:14:33"Oh, I hate you, you're not my mum."
0:14:33 > 0:14:36And that's why I always kept feeling like she's going to hate me
0:14:36 > 0:14:38for the rest of her life.
0:14:38 > 0:14:41Yeah! Let's have a cuddle. Let's see you.
0:14:41 > 0:14:46Hello! Are you standing up all by yourself?
0:14:46 > 0:14:49How were your friends, though? Were they helpful?
0:14:49 > 0:14:53- Erm, most of my friends ditched me. - Really?- Yeah.
0:14:53 > 0:14:55- Oh, what friends they are then(!) - Yeah.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58Most of my friends have ditched me as well, they don't want to know me.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00- BABY CRIES - Do you want your daddy?
0:15:00 > 0:15:02Are you tired?
0:15:05 > 0:15:06Night-night!
0:15:07 > 0:15:11'Emma suffered from depression as a teenager, and believes
0:15:11 > 0:15:15'becoming a young mum was a trigger for the depression to come back.'
0:15:15 > 0:15:18Do you think that, if you'd have known about
0:15:18 > 0:15:21postnatal depression before you had your little girl,
0:15:21 > 0:15:25that you might have been a bit more prepared for it?
0:15:25 > 0:15:28I would have hopefully been more prepared
0:15:28 > 0:15:29if I knew all about it, yeah.
0:15:29 > 0:15:33I think that that's the biggest shock to the system.
0:15:33 > 0:15:36Cos it just comes and you don't feel anything.
0:15:36 > 0:15:38You don't think, "This is the best day of my life."
0:15:38 > 0:15:42You don't look at your baby and think, "Oh my God, I'm in love.
0:15:42 > 0:15:45Like, you feel like you're not human.
0:15:45 > 0:15:47You're embarrassed to talk to anyone about it, because there's just
0:15:47 > 0:15:52not any awareness of what it is, or why it happens, or when it happens.
0:15:52 > 0:15:55If anything happens to you after you've given birth
0:15:55 > 0:15:58or the way you feel, it's just brushed under the carpet
0:15:58 > 0:16:00cos you're a teenager and you shouldn't have done it.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03You shouldn't have put yourself in that position in the first place.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06It's the lack of understanding that bothers me.
0:16:06 > 0:16:09If they understood what the illness was and what it did to you
0:16:09 > 0:16:12and how it made you feel, then you can judge me all day long.
0:16:12 > 0:16:15But if you don't, then leave me alone.
0:16:15 > 0:16:17How do you get through it now? What are you doing to...
0:16:17 > 0:16:19Erm...I'm on antidepressants.
0:16:19 > 0:16:24Some days they do help so much and other days they can't do anything.
0:16:24 > 0:16:28- Yeah.- I'd still be like, oh, I just want to give up right now.
0:16:29 > 0:16:32The sad thing to hear was that her friends all left her
0:16:32 > 0:16:35and deserted her.
0:16:35 > 0:16:37I don't know if you can blame friends,
0:16:37 > 0:16:40and it's not that they are right, but they're just kids.
0:16:40 > 0:16:43I don't think when you're young and don't have any responsibilities,
0:16:43 > 0:16:45and you don't have a baby,
0:16:45 > 0:16:47you don't realise what it means to be a real friend.
0:16:47 > 0:16:49Whereas when you've had children,
0:16:49 > 0:16:53you know how to be there for someone and how to support someone.
0:16:53 > 0:16:55And I think it's really hard at that age
0:16:55 > 0:16:59to find people who are at that level of maturity,
0:16:59 > 0:17:02to stand by you and help you through it all.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05It's interesting that both Beth and Emma
0:17:05 > 0:17:07feel alienated by other teenagers,
0:17:07 > 0:17:10and this is playing a big role in their depression.
0:17:10 > 0:17:13I remember the fear of that happening to me.
0:17:21 > 0:17:24At 17, I was here at this performing arts college
0:17:24 > 0:17:26with high hopes for my future.
0:17:29 > 0:17:33Finding out I was pregnant was devastating.
0:17:36 > 0:17:40The first day I enrolled in college, I was so excited.
0:17:40 > 0:17:43I knew I really wanted to do musical theatre
0:17:43 > 0:17:45and that's something I really wanted to get a job in.
0:17:47 > 0:17:50I didn't know for a long time that I was pregnant.
0:17:50 > 0:17:52I was still having periods which apparently is normal,
0:17:52 > 0:17:54so I didn't have a clue.
0:17:54 > 0:17:57I remember the day I found out I was pregnant.
0:17:57 > 0:17:59I went out with my step-mum and it's like,
0:17:59 > 0:18:01"Oof, your breath stinks of onion."
0:18:01 > 0:18:05And she couldn't talk to me and I felt like I was going to be sick.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08And she said, "You're definitely pregnant."
0:18:12 > 0:18:13As soon as I told my mum and dad,
0:18:13 > 0:18:15the instant reaction was, that's it now.
0:18:15 > 0:18:18You're not going to be able to do anything you wanted to do.
0:18:19 > 0:18:23After a scan, I discovered I was already five months pregnant,
0:18:23 > 0:18:25and for me, an abortion wasn't an option.
0:18:27 > 0:18:31There was no way I could compromise someone else's life for me.
0:18:31 > 0:18:36So I started thinking, I've got to just be a mum forever,
0:18:36 > 0:18:39I can't be anything else, I can't have a career,
0:18:39 > 0:18:41I can't go to college and I can't have a social life.
0:18:43 > 0:18:45I really wanted to finish my course,
0:18:45 > 0:18:48and it felt like all my dreams had been shattered.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55Over a third of teenage mums have no qualifications
0:18:55 > 0:18:58and 70% aren't in education.
0:18:58 > 0:19:00But the truth is,
0:19:00 > 0:19:04combining motherhood with college isn't impossible.
0:19:05 > 0:19:09I've come to Bristol to meet 20-year-old Robyn and her son Liam.
0:19:10 > 0:19:15After a year of depression, Robyn was finally diagnosed with PND.
0:19:15 > 0:19:17But she's recently started recovering,
0:19:17 > 0:19:19and is now at university.
0:19:19 > 0:19:20Clever boy!
0:19:22 > 0:19:25Did you just not want to tell anyone how you felt?
0:19:25 > 0:19:29Yeah, I felt rubbish all the time, and yeah, I didn't want to go out.
0:19:29 > 0:19:32Because it's embarrassing, that feeling, ain't it?
0:19:32 > 0:19:33You don't to talk to anyone about it.
0:19:33 > 0:19:37Yeah, you kind of feel like you're the worst mum ever.
0:19:37 > 0:19:40I've now been put on antidepressants and that.
0:19:40 > 0:19:43- Do they help?- Erm, yeah.
0:19:44 > 0:19:47Antidepressants are the most common form of treatment for PND,
0:19:47 > 0:19:50but on their own, they're often not enough.
0:19:53 > 0:19:57Do you think that the way you felt ever made him
0:19:57 > 0:20:00harder to deal with? Cos sometimes I used to think, I'm upset
0:20:00 > 0:20:02so the baby's upset so I'm not getting anywhere.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05Like, the baby's crying and it's making me upset,
0:20:05 > 0:20:08- but because I'm upset, the baby's crying.- Yeah.
0:20:08 > 0:20:11- It's like that never-ending circle. - Yeah.
0:20:11 > 0:20:14You just kind of don't know what to do and you feel at your wits' end,
0:20:14 > 0:20:17like you just want to go, "No, take it away."
0:20:17 > 0:20:19I kind of...
0:20:19 > 0:20:23did think about... "That's it. He's going up for adoption.
0:20:23 > 0:20:25"I can't do it any more."
0:20:27 > 0:20:29Then I'd just talk to my mum.
0:20:30 > 0:20:33Are you ready?
0:20:33 > 0:20:36Do you feel like you're coming towards the end of it now?
0:20:36 > 0:20:37How do you feel?
0:20:37 > 0:20:41Starting university, I can actually see my future now.
0:20:41 > 0:20:45It's so much nicer than what it could have been.
0:20:45 > 0:20:47I do feel a lot happier.
0:20:47 > 0:20:50I'm so glad.
0:20:50 > 0:20:57It is. It's having that motive in life and something to live for.
0:20:58 > 0:21:02'Robyn thinks that university has played a big role in her recovery.
0:21:02 > 0:21:05'She's also been going to a local group in Bristol
0:21:05 > 0:21:08'especially for mums with postnatal depression.'
0:21:08 > 0:21:11- Does that help?- A lot.- Really? - It's amazing, yeah.
0:21:11 > 0:21:13Every week, there's a different session.
0:21:13 > 0:21:15You can do zumba and yoga.
0:21:15 > 0:21:20- Oh, really? That's really good. Is that, like, free for anyone?- Yes.
0:21:20 > 0:21:23That's so nice. So you meet other people in your situation,
0:21:23 > 0:21:26- you don't feel so alone, I suppose. - Yeah.
0:21:28 > 0:21:31'I never knew these groups existed when I was depressed,
0:21:31 > 0:21:33'so Robyn's invited me to join in.
0:21:36 > 0:21:40'Bluebells Nursery is a charity-run course where young mums
0:21:40 > 0:21:44'with postnatal depression can connect and learn coping skills.'
0:21:44 > 0:21:47Did anybody do anything nice for themselves this week?
0:21:47 > 0:21:50- I bought this top for myself... - Lovely.- ..which was only £14.
0:21:50 > 0:21:54So that's quite good for me considering I don't shop for myself.
0:21:54 > 0:21:57One of the things that we talked about last week,
0:21:57 > 0:22:01cos we were doing about aerobic exercise last week and how that has
0:22:01 > 0:22:05a beneficial effect for depression and, in fact, anxiety as well...
0:22:05 > 0:22:10Has anybody else maybe tried a little bit of exercise?
0:22:10 > 0:22:13We want for a walk and it was in the rain in the forest
0:22:13 > 0:22:14and it was nice.
0:22:14 > 0:22:16To actually get up and do exercise, you think,
0:22:16 > 0:22:18"Oh, no. I really don't want to go."
0:22:18 > 0:22:19It takes so much to get there,
0:22:19 > 0:22:22but once you've done it, you feel a million times better.
0:22:22 > 0:22:25This programme is all about finding what works for you
0:22:25 > 0:22:28and this session is a creative session
0:22:28 > 0:22:34and doing creative activities, anything from art, craft, drama,
0:22:34 > 0:22:38they've all been shown to help reduce depression and anxiety.
0:22:38 > 0:22:42So this week we're going to have a go at doing some decoupage.
0:22:42 > 0:22:44We've got these nice, little, sturdy boxes
0:22:44 > 0:22:47and the idea is we're going to decorate them.
0:22:47 > 0:22:49Also, they can be something that you keep
0:22:49 > 0:22:52and you might like to put some things in it just for you,
0:22:52 > 0:22:55that are special for you, so it becomes your little thing.
0:22:57 > 0:23:01I used to listen women who say, "I had a really nice labour,"
0:23:01 > 0:23:04and I used to think, "Whatever. That's not even true."
0:23:06 > 0:23:09I was working, we had enough money to get by
0:23:09 > 0:23:12and I still suffered from postnatal depression.
0:23:12 > 0:23:15So I think it doesn't matter what circumstances you're in,
0:23:15 > 0:23:17if It's going to happen, it's going to happen.
0:23:17 > 0:23:19My friends don't know I've got depression.
0:23:19 > 0:23:21They don't know I'm on antidepressants.
0:23:21 > 0:23:25It's just family and I don't even think all my family knows.
0:23:25 > 0:23:29Do you think if they did know, it would change how they viewed you?
0:23:29 > 0:23:34No, because I think I've got quite a nice group of friends.
0:23:34 > 0:23:37With this programme, how does it work?
0:23:37 > 0:23:41How many people can come here? How many people can benefit from this?
0:23:41 > 0:23:44Is it just this area or are there places like this all over?
0:23:44 > 0:23:48At the moment, Bluebell has just won funding from Comic Relief.
0:23:48 > 0:23:52The funding is tied to the South Bristol area.
0:23:52 > 0:23:55I think it's a really lovely idea. I wish I had somewhere like this.
0:23:55 > 0:23:57- Do you think it helps?- Yeah.
0:23:57 > 0:24:00I reckon it does cos it gives you a chance
0:24:00 > 0:24:02to talk about how you're feeling and your emotions.
0:24:04 > 0:24:09And now I want you to write one, or possibly two if you want to,
0:24:09 > 0:24:13positive comments about the person whose name
0:24:13 > 0:24:17is on the top of that piece of paper.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20Eventually, you'll get your piece of paper back
0:24:20 > 0:24:22with your name on the top
0:24:22 > 0:24:25with a list of hopefully really nice things
0:24:25 > 0:24:28and nice positive things about you.
0:24:31 > 0:24:35OK. So have you all had a little read through your comments?
0:24:35 > 0:24:38- I daren't look at them. - You daren't look?
0:24:38 > 0:24:40SHE LAUGHS
0:24:40 > 0:24:43I would have loved to have had something like that
0:24:43 > 0:24:45when I felt the way I did with Zachary.
0:24:45 > 0:24:48I would love to have been a part of an organisation like that
0:24:48 > 0:24:50and had a group of friends with a common ground.
0:24:50 > 0:24:52Nice to see the honesty,
0:24:52 > 0:24:54how people can just turn around and go,
0:24:54 > 0:24:56"Yeah, I felt rubbish." "Me too."
0:24:56 > 0:24:58I really enjoyed that. Thank you. So nice to meet you all.
0:24:58 > 0:25:01- Thank you so much for coming along. - That was lovely.
0:25:01 > 0:25:05I can definitely, definitely see why these groups are just
0:25:05 > 0:25:07so right for so many people.
0:25:07 > 0:25:12I felt good coming out of there and I'm generally quite happy anyway.
0:25:12 > 0:25:15I actually felt like I've got a little skip in my step
0:25:15 > 0:25:18on the way out. Made a box!
0:25:18 > 0:25:22# It's a little bit funny
0:25:22 > 0:25:26# This feeling inside
0:25:26 > 0:25:30# I'm not one of those who can
0:25:30 > 0:25:31# Easily hide... #
0:25:34 > 0:25:37'Unlike Robyn, I didn't have any contact
0:25:37 > 0:25:39with other mums in my position.
0:25:39 > 0:25:42'This is the house where I was living with my mum
0:25:42 > 0:25:43when Zach was a baby.
0:25:45 > 0:25:48'With no hope for my future and no outside help,
0:25:48 > 0:25:50'my depression went on getting worse.
0:25:50 > 0:25:52'When I got to breaking point,
0:25:52 > 0:25:54it was my mum who offered me a lifeline.
0:25:56 > 0:25:59'I've come to talk to her about her memories of that time.'
0:26:01 > 0:26:05What did you think when I was sad?
0:26:05 > 0:26:08I was quite concerned...
0:26:08 > 0:26:12that at one point you got really down.
0:26:12 > 0:26:15Cos you used to say to me,
0:26:15 > 0:26:17"Mum, what is wrong with me?"
0:26:17 > 0:26:21You know, "I can't deal with this."
0:26:21 > 0:26:25Sometimes I found it quite hard
0:26:25 > 0:26:28trying to keep saying to you,
0:26:28 > 0:26:30"It will get better."
0:26:30 > 0:26:34And I knew for quite a while you just couldn't see that
0:26:34 > 0:26:37and you didn't believe me.
0:26:37 > 0:26:38The look in your eye was
0:26:38 > 0:26:40"I don't believe what you're saying to me, Mum.
0:26:40 > 0:26:42"How is it going to get any better?"
0:26:42 > 0:26:45Didn't you ever feel sad with any of us
0:26:45 > 0:26:48or did you just instantly love us cos you were older
0:26:48 > 0:26:51- and you planned it? - No, I didn't instantly love.
0:26:51 > 0:26:55'I've often wondered if my mum suffered with depression herself.
0:26:55 > 0:26:58'But until now, I've never dared to ask.'
0:26:58 > 0:27:00I hate asking you if you were ever depressed
0:27:00 > 0:27:03cos, to be honest, I don't really want to know.
0:27:03 > 0:27:06I wouldn't ever want to know that my mum was ever upset.
0:27:06 > 0:27:07Does that make sense?
0:27:07 > 0:27:11So, really, I'm trying to raise awareness for something
0:27:11 > 0:27:14that I wouldn't want to know about my own mum cos you're my mummy.
0:27:14 > 0:27:16I don't want you to be sad.
0:27:16 > 0:27:19'Is it possible that all this time
0:27:19 > 0:27:22'my mum's been keeping a secret from me?'
0:27:22 > 0:27:24I didn't have feelings straight away
0:27:24 > 0:27:27and I thought I must be a terrible mother.
0:27:29 > 0:27:32I didn't want to admit with you kids
0:27:32 > 0:27:37because I thought there was something wrong with me.
0:27:37 > 0:27:38Did you not ever think,
0:27:38 > 0:27:42"I'm going to tell her the things that people don't tell her"?
0:27:42 > 0:27:49- No. Why?- Because I didn't know how you would respond to giving birth
0:27:49 > 0:27:53and having a baby. If somebody told you the reality and the truth,
0:27:53 > 0:27:58how much stress or how stressed would you have got
0:27:58 > 0:28:01- prior to going into labour? - I don't know.
0:28:01 > 0:28:02Cos I think you would have.
0:28:02 > 0:28:05I would have been a bit more prepared, I think.
0:28:05 > 0:28:10'Eventually, my mum stepped in and sent me on holiday with my friends.'
0:28:10 > 0:28:15My hope was that that would help you with the bonding.
0:28:15 > 0:28:21I think, primarily, I wanted you to see you could have a child
0:28:21 > 0:28:23and you can still have a life.
0:28:23 > 0:28:27People would probably say it's wrong but personally I don't care.
0:28:27 > 0:28:32- That's just lack of understanding and awareness.- I was just lucky.
0:28:32 > 0:28:35No, you weren't. You were just a pain in the bum.
0:28:35 > 0:28:40But I think any mum would do it, Stacey. You're not just lucky.
0:28:42 > 0:28:46Even though I still don't think it's spoken about enough now,
0:28:46 > 0:28:50there is more talk of mental illness now
0:28:50 > 0:28:54than there was when my mum was having children. So I don't know.
0:28:54 > 0:28:58Is that was why she's less able to tell people about it
0:28:58 > 0:29:01because when she had children, no-one spoke about it?
0:29:01 > 0:29:04My grandma certainly wouldn't have said anything to my mum
0:29:04 > 0:29:07if she felt like that. I know that for a fact.
0:29:07 > 0:29:11It was sort of the old, "I'm fine, everything's fine,
0:29:11 > 0:29:14"my family are fine and I'm having a great life."
0:29:14 > 0:29:17That was all you could ever tell people because you wouldn't want
0:29:17 > 0:29:21anyone to know anything else or you'd be embarrassed.
0:29:21 > 0:29:25I just think that there's so many people that...
0:29:27 > 0:29:30..find it difficult to admit they've been depressed
0:29:30 > 0:29:33or in any sort of mental situation
0:29:33 > 0:29:37because...society doesn't want to know.
0:29:47 > 0:29:52'I remember the relief I felt when my mum suggested a holiday.
0:29:52 > 0:29:53'Although it was temporary,
0:29:53 > 0:29:55'a week in Greece with my friend Dana
0:29:55 > 0:29:57'felt like a way out of my misery.'
0:29:58 > 0:30:02How did I know that knock was you?
0:30:04 > 0:30:08Let's find these pictures. I'm excited to see them.
0:30:08 > 0:30:10I wonder what they're going to look like.
0:30:10 > 0:30:14I remember feeling really happy, like, the first few days of holiday.
0:30:14 > 0:30:18Really, really happy. I felt like a child again, I suppose.
0:30:18 > 0:30:20We were kids. We were so young.
0:30:20 > 0:30:23- That's nights-out as well. - I remember that night.
0:30:23 > 0:30:26Oh, my God. I look like such a geek.
0:30:28 > 0:30:30Oh, no. We were such losers.
0:30:30 > 0:30:32Nice pose, Dana.
0:30:36 > 0:30:39I never go through your photos.
0:30:39 > 0:30:41I should look on them more often.
0:30:41 > 0:30:43Oh, dear. I look like a fish.
0:30:43 > 0:30:46Oh, dear. That's definitely not going anywhere.
0:30:46 > 0:30:48Oh, a bit of karaoke.
0:30:51 > 0:30:53So embarrassing.
0:30:53 > 0:30:55My mum's instinct was right.
0:30:55 > 0:30:58Being separated from Zach made me miss him
0:30:58 > 0:31:01and as soon as I came back I felt that bond.
0:31:02 > 0:31:09I think this holiday, in a way, was definitely a massive part of me
0:31:09 > 0:31:12- getting over it. Definitely. - It made you realise a lot.
0:31:12 > 0:31:16I really did want to get home to Zach.
0:31:16 > 0:31:19I remember saying to you, "I really want to go home. I want to see him."
0:31:19 > 0:31:20Ringing him 500 times a day.
0:31:20 > 0:31:23My mum was just like, "Go and have fun."
0:31:23 > 0:31:26I wasn't even thinking when I was at home with him.
0:31:26 > 0:31:32It was only when I pulled myself out of the situation that I realised
0:31:32 > 0:31:36what I wanted to do, where I wanted to be, how I wanted to deal with it
0:31:36 > 0:31:41and I just think that going away was a massive, massive cure.
0:31:45 > 0:31:48'I dread to think how bad things might have got
0:31:48 > 0:31:50'if it wasn't for my mum.
0:31:50 > 0:31:52'What happens to young mums with PND who don't get treatment
0:31:52 > 0:31:55'and don't have a parent to help?
0:31:58 > 0:32:00'Psychotherapist Amanda Jones has invited me
0:32:00 > 0:32:04'to meet one of her patients who found herself in that position.'
0:32:04 > 0:32:07Yes. Yes. Yes.
0:32:07 > 0:32:12'As a teenager, Jessica's postnatal depression got so severe
0:32:12 > 0:32:16'that her first two children were placed in care.
0:32:16 > 0:32:18'It was only after intervention from Amanda,
0:32:18 > 0:32:22'when Jessica's third child was born, that she started to recover.
0:32:23 > 0:32:27Why were your first two children taken away from you?
0:32:27 > 0:32:32Aggression. Cos I had been in so many care places,
0:32:32 > 0:32:36it was just all anger. "Would I be able to cope?"
0:32:37 > 0:32:43There were understandable concerns about Jessica's level of anger
0:32:43 > 0:32:45that hadn't had an outlet.
0:32:45 > 0:32:49I think there was a misperception that that anger would get
0:32:49 > 0:32:51directed towards her babies.
0:32:51 > 0:32:56It's been one battle after another and nobody's ever stopped
0:32:56 > 0:33:01to ask, "Jess, what's going on?"
0:33:01 > 0:33:05I've been in care. I've been sexually abused.
0:33:05 > 0:33:09I've had a baby who was premature
0:33:09 > 0:33:12who weighed four pounds.
0:33:12 > 0:33:16Couldn't breast-feed, had no breast milk.
0:33:19 > 0:33:22They took Shay Shay from me.
0:33:22 > 0:33:24I had to pack Shay Shay's clothes.
0:33:28 > 0:33:32I could not hold on to my child, like, hold on to her
0:33:32 > 0:33:36and I thought to myself, honestly, Amanda, I thought,
0:33:36 > 0:33:39"Well, if I die here, what difference does it make?"
0:33:39 > 0:33:45You had severe postnatal depression due to this trauma and loss.
0:33:45 > 0:33:50But, at that time, you weren't picked up, it wasn't identified
0:33:50 > 0:33:54and you weren't referred to a service like ours.
0:33:54 > 0:33:58Why wasn't that system there from child one?
0:33:58 > 0:34:01Someone who's been in foster care and someone with that background,
0:34:01 > 0:34:04why didn't they have the help straightaway?
0:34:04 > 0:34:06It just seems like a bit of a failure.
0:34:06 > 0:34:10What makes me so sad is that someone who'd been through
0:34:10 > 0:34:14what Jessica had been through hadn't had the opportunity to have
0:34:14 > 0:34:17quite intensive therapeutic help
0:34:17 > 0:34:21prior to becoming pregnant the first time.
0:34:21 > 0:34:23# Wind the bobbin up
0:34:23 > 0:34:26# Wind the bobbin up... #
0:34:26 > 0:34:30After long-term mother-and-baby therapy with Amanda,
0:34:30 > 0:34:33Jessica is finally able to be a mum to her third child Delainah.
0:34:35 > 0:34:36'I want one back at a time.'
0:34:36 > 0:34:38That gives me time to think,
0:34:38 > 0:34:41"This is going to be a big change, Amanda."
0:34:41 > 0:34:45But knowing the person I am, I have to do it.
0:34:45 > 0:34:49These are my babies. This is what matters to me.
0:34:50 > 0:34:52We grow strong together.
0:34:58 > 0:35:00'I find it shocking that postnatal depression
0:35:00 > 0:35:03'can result in children being taken away.
0:35:03 > 0:35:06'But the reality is that this illness can be fatal.
0:35:08 > 0:35:13'At its worst, it can develop into psychotic depression.
0:35:13 > 0:35:19'In 2012, Felicia Boots killed her two young children.
0:35:19 > 0:35:22'She was found guilty of manslaughter after the court heard
0:35:22 > 0:35:25'that her actions were a direct result of psychosis
0:35:25 > 0:35:27'due to postnatal depression.
0:35:30 > 0:35:33'I've come to Coventry to meet 20-year-old Chelsea
0:35:33 > 0:35:36'and her two-year-old son Keilan.'
0:35:36 > 0:35:37Have you finished?
0:35:39 > 0:35:44She's agreed to talk to me about how close she came to a similar tragedy.
0:35:45 > 0:35:47So, how did it all start?
0:35:47 > 0:35:51What was the worst point you were ever at?
0:35:51 > 0:35:54I don't know. It was just when I started crying
0:35:54 > 0:35:58and then I heard voices and that was it.
0:35:58 > 0:36:01It made me really scared.
0:36:01 > 0:36:06Just telling me to do dangerous things to Keilan.
0:36:06 > 0:36:10What was the worst thing that you ever heard?
0:36:10 > 0:36:11Stab him.
0:36:14 > 0:36:17- That's really hard to say. - I know. I can imagine.
0:36:17 > 0:36:19That's not something anyone wants to talk about
0:36:19 > 0:36:21but it's so brave actually saying it
0:36:21 > 0:36:24and then other people that are going through the same thing can be
0:36:24 > 0:36:28aware of it and know that it happens to loads of women, not just you.
0:36:28 > 0:36:33I knife in my hand cos I needed to open a box cos...
0:36:33 > 0:36:37I had no scissors and I had him in my arms...
0:36:37 > 0:36:40and I was holding the box as well and I was trying to open it
0:36:40 > 0:36:44and then I heard this voice just like say, "Stab him."
0:36:44 > 0:36:48And then I dropped the knife and ran to my mum's cos it scared...
0:36:48 > 0:36:50It scared me really bad.
0:36:52 > 0:36:55How do you control those voices? What do you do?
0:36:55 > 0:37:00I don't know. I just try to do different things.
0:37:00 > 0:37:02Just take your mind off it?
0:37:02 > 0:37:05I felt like I couldn't look after my child.
0:37:05 > 0:37:08And you just asked your mum for help?
0:37:08 > 0:37:11Did she ever think it was getting to a point where
0:37:11 > 0:37:16maybe you should have been split apart and had a little break?
0:37:16 > 0:37:20No. No. She helped me the whole way through it.
0:37:20 > 0:37:24- Do you ever hear those voices now? - No, I haven't heard them since.
0:37:24 > 0:37:27I would have just hidden anything in my house.
0:37:27 > 0:37:30- It must have been so...- I don't have sharp knives in my house.
0:37:30 > 0:37:33Really? You don't keep them any more just in case?
0:37:33 > 0:37:35Just in case it happens again
0:37:35 > 0:37:38cos I'm so scared that I'm going to hear those voices again.
0:37:38 > 0:37:42- I'm still trying to come to terms with being a mum.- Yeah.
0:37:42 > 0:37:43I'm still learning.
0:37:45 > 0:37:48I don't know. It probably hasn't sunk in properly yet,
0:37:48 > 0:37:50even after two years.
0:37:50 > 0:37:54I think you're really brave for even saying it. Really, really brave.
0:37:57 > 0:38:00In Coventry, they're pioneering a scheme
0:38:00 > 0:38:02called The Family Nurse Partnership.
0:38:02 > 0:38:05A nurse will visit for regular one-to-one checkups
0:38:05 > 0:38:07until the child is two.
0:38:07 > 0:38:09They were there for Chelsea at her lowest point.
0:38:09 > 0:38:11Today is her last session.
0:38:13 > 0:38:17Because he's nearly two and we're nearly saying goodbye,
0:38:17 > 0:38:21the things that we thought we would do today, we agreed,
0:38:21 > 0:38:24were about how you've changed over the past two years,
0:38:24 > 0:38:25two and a bit years,
0:38:25 > 0:38:29and how you think you might have changed as a parent.
0:38:29 > 0:38:32One of the things that we look at as well is do you think there are
0:38:32 > 0:38:36any other services that you might need before we say goodbye?
0:38:36 > 0:38:40I think I need to go and see...
0:38:40 > 0:38:44- get in touch with a counsellor. - Right. OK.
0:38:44 > 0:38:47You look really sad. It's quite sad because two years,
0:38:47 > 0:38:48although it's a long time,
0:38:48 > 0:38:50is it long enough for everyone?
0:38:50 > 0:38:53Cos if I was getting through it and doing really well
0:38:53 > 0:38:57with the programme, I'd just be so anxious to have to do it on my own.
0:38:57 > 0:38:59From my point of view, it's really hard saying goodbye.
0:38:59 > 0:39:05I've got, obviously, your number and everything.
0:39:05 > 0:39:08If I needed you, I could just text you or call you.
0:39:08 > 0:39:11But after this, it's not...
0:39:11 > 0:39:13It's going to hit me like a bomb.
0:39:13 > 0:39:16- Yeah.- It's going to be hard.
0:39:17 > 0:39:20I do feel like she's getting the help that she needs
0:39:20 > 0:39:23and the nurses around her are really good and really helpful,
0:39:23 > 0:39:27but, at the same time, it scared me a little bit looking at her face.
0:39:27 > 0:39:30It didn't look like she'd fully recovered.
0:39:30 > 0:39:33She didn't look ecstatic that it was the end of the programme
0:39:33 > 0:39:36and she'd really come a long way and she'd come through.
0:39:36 > 0:39:40She looked more like, "OK. It's the end. Now what do I do?
0:39:40 > 0:39:43"Now who do I turn to? Now who do I talk to?"
0:39:50 > 0:39:53'I'm sure Chelsea would benefit from more contact
0:39:53 > 0:39:56'with other teenagers in her position.
0:39:56 > 0:39:59'I've come back to see Emma in Surrey.
0:39:59 > 0:40:03'Her health visitor has recommended a local group for young mums.
0:40:03 > 0:40:06'I've brought my son Leighton to join in.'
0:40:06 > 0:40:09- Hello.- Hello.
0:40:09 > 0:40:11Children, look!
0:40:11 > 0:40:14So, what do you do here?
0:40:14 > 0:40:17OK. This is Mad Fridays which stands for Mums and Dads Fridays
0:40:17 > 0:40:19and we support teenage parents,
0:40:19 > 0:40:23right from pregnancy up until the babies are about nine or ten months.
0:40:23 > 0:40:26So we teach lots of life skills and we socialise
0:40:26 > 0:40:29and we get to know each other and make friends.
0:40:29 > 0:40:31Today, we're doing a baby massage session
0:40:31 > 0:40:34- so you're more than welcome to join us.- Lovely. Thank you.
0:40:34 > 0:40:37This is called touch relaxation and it's really important
0:40:37 > 0:40:42because the baby's brain is now thinking about this part of the body.
0:40:42 > 0:40:46With your right hand, you're going to cup round the buttocks
0:40:46 > 0:40:49so under the nappies and then slide your hand down
0:40:49 > 0:40:55and then grasp the thigh and a lovely sweeping stroke down the leg.
0:40:55 > 0:40:57That's lovely. Excellent.
0:40:57 > 0:41:01It's thought that this kind of massage can help form a bond
0:41:01 > 0:41:03between mother and baby
0:41:03 > 0:41:05which is something Emma has been struggling with.
0:41:09 > 0:41:11We've got some smiles.
0:41:11 > 0:41:13And you're feeling better?
0:41:13 > 0:41:17- I feel a bit better.- You do feel a bit...- I still get days
0:41:17 > 0:41:21- when I don't want to do anything. - And even though she's fine
0:41:21 > 0:41:24and she's not crying, you still feel it yourself?
0:41:24 > 0:41:27It's more teething now that gets to me.
0:41:28 > 0:41:32# Twinkle, twinkle, little star
0:41:32 > 0:41:35# How I wonder... #
0:41:35 > 0:41:37'I definitely see how it'll be good'
0:41:37 > 0:41:39for mums with postnatal depression,
0:41:39 > 0:41:42just in terms of bonding and sitting there
0:41:42 > 0:41:45and you're actually stroking your baby and trying to work out
0:41:45 > 0:41:49how to make their wind better and trying to make their life
0:41:49 > 0:41:52a little bit better and understand them,
0:41:52 > 0:41:56rather than just sort of trying to get on with it not knowing how.
0:42:02 > 0:42:06Having been around the country, it's clear that mums' groups,
0:42:06 > 0:42:08nurse visits and intensive psychotherapy
0:42:08 > 0:42:11can all help women recover from PND.
0:42:12 > 0:42:16But getting the right kind of help is a postcode lottery.
0:42:16 > 0:42:19I'm still worried about Beth in Gloucestershire
0:42:19 > 0:42:22who isn't getting any treatment at all.
0:42:22 > 0:42:25So she's agreed to travel down to London in the hope
0:42:25 > 0:42:29that psychotherapist Amanda Jones might be able to help.
0:42:30 > 0:42:33MUSIC: "Lullaby" by Sia
0:42:45 > 0:42:46- Hello.- Hi, Beth.
0:42:50 > 0:42:53- Come on in.- Thank you.
0:42:53 > 0:42:55Where's going to be comfortable for you? Shall we sit on the floor?
0:42:55 > 0:42:57Yeah, that's fine.
0:43:01 > 0:43:05So if you were to put it on a scale of one to ten, in terms of
0:43:05 > 0:43:09ten out of ten being really bad, what was it like for you?
0:43:09 > 0:43:12About eight out of ten.
0:43:12 > 0:43:14BABY CRIES
0:43:15 > 0:43:17She's, um, a daddy's girl.
0:43:17 > 0:43:21So that's why she's probably being a bit grumpy.
0:43:23 > 0:43:27Does that make you feel somehow that you're not as good as her daddy?
0:43:27 > 0:43:30It makes me feel really low sometimes.
0:43:30 > 0:43:34Do you easily feel quite kind of hard on yourself?
0:43:34 > 0:43:37Yeah. I've always been hard on myself really.
0:43:37 > 0:43:42It's just since I've had this postnatal depression
0:43:42 > 0:43:43that I've got worse.
0:43:43 > 0:43:50Because I was planning to have a job and then start a family
0:43:50 > 0:43:54but because I haven't got a job, I feel that she deserves
0:43:54 > 0:43:58someone who can buy her everything she wants.
0:43:58 > 0:44:01So a real fear of not having enough and of being poor?
0:44:01 > 0:44:02Yeah.
0:44:02 > 0:44:05Cos when I was at school I got bullied
0:44:05 > 0:44:09and I didn't want her to go through the same thing as I did.
0:44:09 > 0:44:12Sounds to me like the bullying was really difficult for you?
0:44:12 > 0:44:16Yeah, it was. I wasn't happy at all.
0:44:17 > 0:44:22When I was in year eight, I took an overdose due to the bullying.
0:44:23 > 0:44:28It must have taken an awful lot of courage to get yourself to college.
0:44:28 > 0:44:29Yeah.
0:44:29 > 0:44:30It's just making me wonder
0:44:30 > 0:44:35whether you felt a bit like that was suddenly taken away from you.
0:44:35 > 0:44:37Um, I don't know really.
0:44:37 > 0:44:41But I do know that I really want to get into work.
0:44:42 > 0:44:46How does it feel when you feel you're getting it right for Rhianna?
0:44:46 > 0:44:51I feel good about myself really.
0:44:51 > 0:44:54I stop thinking she loves her dad more than me.
0:44:54 > 0:44:56That sounds like a big issue.
0:44:56 > 0:44:58BABY CRIES
0:44:58 > 0:45:00What kind of a cry do you think that is?
0:45:00 > 0:45:01Nappy.
0:45:01 > 0:45:04- Nappy? Do you want to change her nappy?- Yeah.
0:45:04 > 0:45:07Do you know what I think your mummy has a problem with, Rhianna?
0:45:07 > 0:45:11I think she picks on herself. A lot.
0:45:12 > 0:45:16And I think maybe there's a bit of a pattern...
0:45:16 > 0:45:17Yeah.
0:45:19 > 0:45:23..that you sort of pick on yourself and then at school you were
0:45:23 > 0:45:26- vulnerable to being...- Yeah.
0:45:26 > 0:45:31..picked on and now because this is such a huge change
0:45:31 > 0:45:36to have a little baby, it's, like, stirred that up again.
0:45:36 > 0:45:37Yeah.
0:45:39 > 0:45:40Hmm, you smiling?
0:45:40 > 0:45:44Is that right? Have I understood something about your mummy?
0:45:44 > 0:45:47That she picks on herself all the time?
0:45:47 > 0:45:51And she feels especially, she's not good enough for you?
0:45:51 > 0:45:54That you prefer your daddy?
0:45:54 > 0:45:58You know, maybe that's not quite how it is from your perspective.
0:45:58 > 0:46:01So do you think your mummy's depression would feel better
0:46:01 > 0:46:03if she didn't pick on herself so much?
0:46:06 > 0:46:09If she could actually think to herself that she's just what
0:46:09 > 0:46:10you need.
0:46:13 > 0:46:16What's it been like for you having a bit of time
0:46:16 > 0:46:20to yourself in here just to think about things?
0:46:20 > 0:46:24It's been different. It gives me time.
0:46:24 > 0:46:28Cos obviously I live with my partner.
0:46:28 > 0:46:32And maybe it's been something about having the space in here to...
0:46:32 > 0:46:33Yeah.
0:46:33 > 0:46:36..to sort of realise things about you and Rhianna?
0:46:36 > 0:46:37Yeah.
0:46:37 > 0:46:40What do you think you realise?
0:46:40 > 0:46:43That I'm not a bad mum.
0:46:44 > 0:46:46And it's just going to take some time.
0:46:51 > 0:46:54Amanda's offered to keep in contact with Beth,
0:46:54 > 0:46:57and help her find support in her local area.
0:46:57 > 0:46:59I'm sure that once she's well enough,
0:46:59 > 0:47:01getting into work will really help Beth.
0:47:03 > 0:47:07I remember how elated I felt when my college agreed to have me back.
0:47:13 > 0:47:17I got myself an evening job, put Zach in the college creche,
0:47:17 > 0:47:21and worked as hard as I could to finish my course.
0:47:21 > 0:47:23It was this very singing class which gave me
0:47:23 > 0:47:27the confidence to go on and be a finalist on the X Factor.
0:47:27 > 0:47:29# You work real hard
0:47:29 > 0:47:35# And you know exactly what you want and need so believe... #
0:47:35 > 0:47:37I let the college know I was pregnant
0:47:37 > 0:47:40and they said that I couldn't carry on with the dancing and physical
0:47:40 > 0:47:44parts of my course but they let me carry on doing the written work
0:47:44 > 0:47:46and they kept me involved in everything
0:47:46 > 0:47:48and they said, "As soon as you've had the baby,
0:47:48 > 0:47:52"come back next September," they were really, really good about it.
0:47:52 > 0:47:55Luckily, cos I was at college and working of an evening,
0:47:55 > 0:48:01I was entitled to free childcare and I took Zach to the college nursery.
0:48:01 > 0:48:04Of a morning we'd get on the train, then the bus and I'd drop him
0:48:04 > 0:48:07off at nursery and then I'd go to college and then pick him up after,
0:48:07 > 0:48:10and go back home again and go back to work.
0:48:12 > 0:48:15'I remember being supported by all my teachers.
0:48:15 > 0:48:18'My dance teacher, Sandra, was one of them.'
0:48:21 > 0:48:23Hello, Stacey, how are you?
0:48:23 > 0:48:25I'm good, how are you?
0:48:25 > 0:48:27I'm fine. Lovely to see you.
0:48:28 > 0:48:31You were very dedicated and you wanted to achieve.
0:48:31 > 0:48:33I had to come back.
0:48:33 > 0:48:36And I remember we went round the college because you didn't want to
0:48:36 > 0:48:40sit at home during your pregnancy, you wanted to do something so we
0:48:40 > 0:48:44tried to find you a different course that was not going to be a risk.
0:48:44 > 0:48:46They wouldn't let you!
0:48:46 > 0:48:47I wasn't allowed.
0:48:47 > 0:48:51And then I remember seeing you, you came in to see some students.
0:48:51 > 0:48:53I think...was Zach late?
0:48:53 > 0:48:55Yeah, Zach was ten days late.
0:48:55 > 0:48:57Yeah, and I know you came in a few weeks before that
0:48:57 > 0:48:59to see some students. I saw you in the corridor
0:48:59 > 0:49:01and you said to me again, "You will let me back?"
0:49:01 > 0:49:05And I said yes and I thought you definitely must want to come back.
0:49:05 > 0:49:06Definitely.
0:49:06 > 0:49:08And he's now four.
0:49:08 > 0:49:11But the fact that you came back said a lot about you
0:49:11 > 0:49:17because you were obviously determined to achieve and you achieved it.
0:49:17 > 0:49:18And that is really good.
0:49:20 > 0:49:22Hiya. All right?
0:49:22 > 0:49:24I know.
0:49:24 > 0:49:28If anything, college was like a little break from reality
0:49:28 > 0:49:32cos it was all, I had my friends at college.
0:49:32 > 0:49:34I got that bit of normality at college.
0:49:34 > 0:49:38where Zach was at nursery, I could do what I wanted to do
0:49:38 > 0:49:42and I felt like I was achieving something, I was getting somewhere.
0:49:53 > 0:49:57Four weeks after her session with Amanda Jones, Beth is finally
0:49:57 > 0:49:59getting somewhere too.
0:49:59 > 0:50:01£1.95 and your receipt.
0:50:01 > 0:50:02Thank you very much.
0:50:02 > 0:50:03Thank you.
0:50:03 > 0:50:06I got a job in a charity shop.
0:50:06 > 0:50:09It's really good cos it's boosted my confidence.
0:50:10 > 0:50:15We got some lush cards today. I got some this morning.
0:50:15 > 0:50:17I picked out a few that I like.
0:50:17 > 0:50:20I found out about a mother and baby group.
0:50:20 > 0:50:25I started going about three or four weeks ago and it's really good.
0:50:25 > 0:50:27I've made a couple of friends there.
0:50:29 > 0:50:32Amanda's found Beth a local NHS therapist.
0:50:32 > 0:50:36My session with Amanda was really good cos it made me realise
0:50:36 > 0:50:40I was being silly about Rhianna not loving me.
0:50:40 > 0:50:45I've come to realise that she does need me
0:50:45 > 0:50:49and she loves me just as much as she loves her dad.
0:50:49 > 0:50:53I hope Beth continues to recover and enjoy being a mum.
0:50:55 > 0:50:57Although I'm completely better now,
0:50:57 > 0:51:01I'm still carrying guilt about the way I felt when Zach was born.
0:51:01 > 0:51:05# Regrets collect like old friends
0:51:05 > 0:51:09# Here to relive your darkest moments
0:51:09 > 0:51:12# I can see no way, I can see no way... #
0:51:12 > 0:51:16Hello. I've decided to have a session with Amanda Jones myself,
0:51:16 > 0:51:20to see if she can help me understand what I went through.
0:51:20 > 0:51:22It sounds really silly but even now
0:51:22 > 0:51:26I don't like to say I wasn't happy with my child.
0:51:26 > 0:51:29That to me is a really horrible thing to say
0:51:29 > 0:51:31and I don't like to say it.
0:51:31 > 0:51:35I didn't really want to be pregnant so I didn't act like I was pregnant.
0:51:35 > 0:51:39I just pretended I wasn't pregnant. To me I was just me.
0:51:40 > 0:51:45Still went out. Still...I was just fatter if that makes any sense?
0:51:45 > 0:51:47To me, I was just bigger.
0:51:47 > 0:51:51As a young girl, I felt like I could do anything.
0:51:51 > 0:51:56I didn't think I could ever die. I just felt, like really invincible.
0:51:57 > 0:52:01Which is a very adolescent kind of feeling in some ways.
0:52:01 > 0:52:03The sense that you've got... there are no limits?
0:52:03 > 0:52:05And that went.
0:52:05 > 0:52:08The first time I thought, "Oh, no, everything won't be fine,"
0:52:08 > 0:52:11was when I was in labour and I just thought, "I'm going to die."
0:52:11 > 0:52:15That, in a way, was the shock.
0:52:15 > 0:52:19In a way that the actual giving birth kind of shattered your...
0:52:19 > 0:52:22Just made me not young any more.
0:52:22 > 0:52:26Felt like I had all stitches everywhere and I was bleeding.
0:52:26 > 0:52:28I felt like everything was just ruined.
0:52:28 > 0:52:30All my body was just really...
0:52:30 > 0:52:33That was it. I went from being young to old in three days.
0:52:34 > 0:52:38And you think that in some way contributed?
0:52:38 > 0:52:39Or it sounds to me like it did.
0:52:39 > 0:52:44For me, I found it really... like I wasn't a girl any more
0:52:44 > 0:52:49when people were like staring at me and pulling things out of me.
0:52:49 > 0:52:54That made me feel like I went from being this 17-year-old girl
0:52:54 > 0:52:58who could decide who and when goes near me in that way
0:52:58 > 0:53:02to being someone who's laying there and everyone sort of looking
0:53:02 > 0:53:06at things that I'm even at this age, too embarrassed to even talk about.
0:53:06 > 0:53:08If that makes any sense?
0:53:08 > 0:53:09You felt really kind of violated?
0:53:09 > 0:53:13Yeah. I just didn't feel, like, innocent any more.
0:53:16 > 0:53:20I just feel ongoing guilt about Zach.
0:53:20 > 0:53:22Just that will never change.
0:53:22 > 0:53:27I shouldn't have been so selfish as to put myself in that situation.
0:53:27 > 0:53:33Do you think in some ways that's a sign of your emotionally
0:53:33 > 0:53:35kind of maturing in a way?
0:53:35 > 0:53:38That actually you can now kind of cope with
0:53:38 > 0:53:42having those sorts of feelings of guilt?
0:53:42 > 0:53:46Emotionally, I've definitely matured so I can look back
0:53:46 > 0:53:48and I can reflect on the way that I felt.
0:53:48 > 0:53:50I have to be guilty and bear that guilt.
0:53:50 > 0:53:54The only thing I can ever hope and pray is that my children are happy
0:53:54 > 0:53:59and don't ever feel that I have done anything intentionally
0:53:59 > 0:54:00to make them upset.
0:54:00 > 0:54:02It still touches you?
0:54:02 > 0:54:03Yeah... I don't...
0:54:07 > 0:54:10I don't ever want him to think that I didn't love him, ever.
0:54:17 > 0:54:21That's the last thing I would ever, ever want. Cos I did.
0:54:21 > 0:54:25Obviously I did. I just didn't feel that straightaway.
0:54:25 > 0:54:28It was really difficult to feel that straightaway.
0:54:28 > 0:54:31And I hope that in time that doesn't hurt him, by knowing that.
0:54:35 > 0:54:38'I really, in a strange way, enjoyed my session with Amanda.
0:54:38 > 0:54:41'I feel like I know a bit more about myself.'
0:54:41 > 0:54:43I can look back at that time and feel like I've got a little bit
0:54:43 > 0:54:46of knowledge as to how I was actually feeling
0:54:46 > 0:54:51and why I was feeling like that so I don't feel so guilty
0:54:51 > 0:54:54about talking about it and telling people about it.
0:54:54 > 0:54:57And I suppose that must just be what everyone needs.
0:54:57 > 0:55:00At the beginning of this programme I felt like I really didn't know
0:55:00 > 0:55:03what it was that caused me to feel the way that I felt
0:55:03 > 0:55:06and after talking to Amanda
0:55:06 > 0:55:10I feel like I can sort of leave that bit of my life behind me.
0:55:19 > 0:55:23I feel really lucky that I didn't get postnatal depression
0:55:23 > 0:55:25the second time around, with Leighton.
0:55:25 > 0:55:29This time I've got a career, a house, and my partner Aaron to help.
0:55:32 > 0:55:34Making this film has shown me
0:55:34 > 0:55:37what a serious illness postnatal depression can become,
0:55:37 > 0:55:42and that asking for help is really important, even if it feels scary.
0:55:42 > 0:55:45When I look at the whole of the documentary,
0:55:45 > 0:55:47and everything we filmed and everyone we've seen,
0:55:47 > 0:55:50I just feel like there's
0:55:50 > 0:55:52definitely got to be more help out there, definitely.
0:55:52 > 0:55:55There's not enough groups and there's not enough support.
0:55:55 > 0:55:58The ones I've seen are doing an incredible job, don't get me wrong,
0:55:58 > 0:56:01they're doing absolutely amazing jobs. You can see it.
0:56:01 > 0:56:03I just feel like that needs to be everywhere.
0:56:03 > 0:56:05The one thing I'd love to achieve from this whole thing
0:56:05 > 0:56:08is just to just get people on board, get people behind it,
0:56:08 > 0:56:11raise some awareness and hopefully make that happen.
0:56:11 > 0:56:15# It's always darkest before the dawn
0:56:15 > 0:56:20# And I've been a fool and I've been blind
0:56:20 > 0:56:24# I can never leave the past behind
0:56:24 > 0:56:28# I can see no way, I can see no way... #
0:56:48 > 0:56:50Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd