0:00:02 > 0:00:05- Everything has an impact on your life...- Whatever your age.
0:00:05 > 0:00:07'From the type of house we live in...'
0:00:07 > 0:00:09Ooh, this looks nice.
0:00:09 > 0:00:11Yes, it's been completely renovated throughout.
0:00:11 > 0:00:13To how much money we have to spend.
0:00:13 > 0:00:16Your wage ends up being like a normal working wage, which is good.
0:00:16 > 0:00:18What we put in our bodies...
0:00:18 > 0:00:22I don't think I've ever been "fat" fat, but I have put weight on.
0:00:22 > 0:00:25'To the secrets of our genetic make-up...'
0:00:25 > 0:00:27You are going to live to be 140.
0:00:27 > 0:00:29That'll do, I'll take everything I can get!
0:00:29 > 0:00:33So, finding out about all those things and more could help you
0:00:33 > 0:00:39- mature brilliantly.- Or slow down the ageing process just a little.
0:00:39 > 0:00:43We've tracked down the very best tips and advice for holding back the years.
0:00:43 > 0:00:45And now, with the help of our team,
0:00:45 > 0:00:48we're going to pass them on to you,
0:00:48 > 0:00:51to show you how to have the time of your life...
0:00:51 > 0:00:52Whenever that may be.
0:00:56 > 0:01:00Hello, and welcome to the show that wants you to be bolder...
0:01:00 > 0:01:01About growing older!
0:01:01 > 0:01:04Here's what we have for you today.
0:01:04 > 0:01:08It's been described as a national epidemic in old age,
0:01:08 > 0:01:10but help might be just a simple call away.
0:01:10 > 0:01:14Fiona investigates how loneliness is being tackled in Lancashire.
0:01:16 > 0:01:19When Paddy died, I thought that my life had ended at that point.
0:01:19 > 0:01:23I wanted it to end at that point, I didn't want to go on without him.
0:01:23 > 0:01:26It's almost like you've got a new life now, going forward.
0:01:26 > 0:01:28I have, yes, yes.
0:01:28 > 0:01:31Dr Rangan Chatterjee, our resident GP,
0:01:31 > 0:01:35is here to tell you how sleep is one of the great pillars when it comes
0:01:35 > 0:01:37to holding back the years.
0:01:37 > 0:01:40If I haven't had enough sleep, then I just want to cry,
0:01:40 > 0:01:43but if I can have five hours' sleep, then I'm more positive.
0:01:43 > 0:01:47- I just deal with it.- And Nicki Chapman finds out the upside when it
0:01:47 > 0:01:49comes to downsizing your home.
0:01:49 > 0:01:54I'm looking at it in wonder, because it is so peaceful, so tranquil,
0:01:54 > 0:01:57and then in the back of the head, something's saying to me,
0:01:57 > 0:01:59"that's an awful lot of work".
0:01:59 > 0:02:01That's why we moved!
0:02:04 > 0:02:07Now, you may have seen that the Government has recently appointed
0:02:07 > 0:02:09its first-ever Minister for Loneliness.
0:02:09 > 0:02:13It's in recognition of what many people see as a national emergency.
0:02:13 > 0:02:16But making sure our grandparents, parents or even ourselves aren't
0:02:16 > 0:02:21lonely is something that can't just be left to those at the top.
0:02:21 > 0:02:24Well, thankfully, one part of the country is leading the way when it
0:02:24 > 0:02:27comes to people power, so we gave them a visit.
0:02:27 > 0:02:32It's estimated that in excess of 1 million people over the age of 65
0:02:32 > 0:02:35in the UK are chronically lonely.
0:02:35 > 0:02:38There's even a loneliness map of Britain, compiled from recent
0:02:38 > 0:02:40statistics, which shows that the
0:02:40 > 0:02:44most socially isolated place in the entire country is here -
0:02:44 > 0:02:46in Lancashire.
0:02:46 > 0:02:50And one lady who knows what it's like to live with loneliness is
0:02:50 > 0:02:53Christine Marley from Blackpool.
0:02:53 > 0:02:58Christine, just tell me what the last five and a half years have been
0:02:58 > 0:03:00like, since your Paddy died.
0:03:00 > 0:03:02- He was the love of your life, wasn't he?- Oh, God, yeah,
0:03:02 > 0:03:04he was my soul mate.
0:03:04 > 0:03:07And I thought at first it was just the grief that was getting to me.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10- Yeah.- But it was like a real pain.
0:03:10 > 0:03:13I had a good family and I had friends, but there was long,
0:03:13 > 0:03:16long hours when I was completely on my own.
0:03:16 > 0:03:22The last five years, I haven't had to give up fighting that feeling.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25Nothing replaces that one person in your life.
0:03:25 > 0:03:28Paddy used to hold my hand, and he'd never let me go anywhere without
0:03:28 > 0:03:32holding me by the hand. Made me feel so safe, you know?
0:03:32 > 0:03:36So I felt unsafe and scared and frightened and vulnerable.
0:03:36 > 0:03:38Having friends and family in her life,
0:03:38 > 0:03:42Christine may have been luckier than most, but inevitably
0:03:42 > 0:03:45you have to cope with stretches of time when you're on your own.
0:03:45 > 0:03:48How long could you go without seeing anyone?
0:03:48 > 0:03:51At the beginning, it wasn't too bad.
0:03:51 > 0:03:54I was getting visitors regularly, in a way,
0:03:54 > 0:03:57but...but then I'd have long periods where there'd be,
0:03:57 > 0:04:00I'd not see anybody. I'd have the television on all day.
0:04:00 > 0:04:02It helps with the loneliness sometimes.
0:04:02 > 0:04:07That's right. Well, it's those hours after tea were the worst.
0:04:07 > 0:04:11From about five, six o'clock till you go to bed at night, and, I mean,
0:04:11 > 0:04:14there have been times when I've been watching the clock and thinking,
0:04:14 > 0:04:16"What's a decent time to go to bed?"
0:04:16 > 0:04:19because I just wanted to draw a line under the day.
0:04:19 > 0:04:23It's estimated half of people aged 75 and over live alone,
0:04:23 > 0:04:26with many saying they can go days, even weeks
0:04:26 > 0:04:29without speaking to anyone at all.
0:04:29 > 0:04:31People need to understand what it's like.
0:04:31 > 0:04:36You can be stood next to an old lady at the bus stop and you'll roll your
0:04:36 > 0:04:39eyes and think, "Oh, God, she's told me her life story while
0:04:39 > 0:04:41"I've been stood here, let me get away".
0:04:41 > 0:04:44But that old lady's probably going home and not seeing anybody for
0:04:44 > 0:04:46- seven days.- Yeah.- You know?
0:04:46 > 0:04:50And you're the only contact she's had for a week.
0:04:50 > 0:04:54And it's so true. Christine wasn't alone in being alone.
0:04:54 > 0:04:56She's since come out the other side, though,
0:04:56 > 0:04:58and joined a social group, Just Good Friends,
0:04:58 > 0:05:02where otherwise isolated people can get together.
0:05:07 > 0:05:09Well, the atmosphere when we walked in was amazing.
0:05:09 > 0:05:13- I thought, "Oh, my goodness, is this Good Friends?!"- Yeah, yeah.
0:05:13 > 0:05:15You know, it was an incredible, real buzz about the place.
0:05:15 > 0:05:19- That's right.- What does it mean to you?- By coming to somewhere like this,
0:05:19 > 0:05:22you can talk to people who are just in the same boat as you,
0:05:22 > 0:05:24who feel exactly the same way as you,
0:05:24 > 0:05:28so they understand, almost without you having to say anything,
0:05:28 > 0:05:31how you're feeling. You know, it's a lot of people who are lonely,
0:05:31 > 0:05:34all getting together and helping each other.
0:05:34 > 0:05:37And you can't feel lonely while you've got all this going on.
0:05:37 > 0:05:41No. As soon as you walk through that door, you don't feel lonely.
0:05:41 > 0:05:44And with a quarter of all people in the local area living alone,
0:05:44 > 0:05:48groups like this have become vital to helping people like Christine
0:05:48 > 0:05:50move forward.
0:05:50 > 0:05:54But, you know, from where you were when your husband died,
0:05:54 > 0:05:57and after, and all that loneliness that you felt, to where you are now,
0:05:57 > 0:06:00do you think that this has been a real life-saver for you?
0:06:00 > 0:06:02Oh, it was. Well, it was a trigger,
0:06:02 > 0:06:05because when Paddy died, I thought that my life had ended at that
0:06:05 > 0:06:07point. I wanted it to end at that point.
0:06:07 > 0:06:09I didn't want to go on without him.
0:06:09 > 0:06:12It's almost like you've got a new life, now, going forward.
0:06:12 > 0:06:14I have, yes, yes.
0:06:14 > 0:06:19And suddenly I'd walk into the room, and within seconds they'd have their
0:06:19 > 0:06:22arms around me and a cup of tea in my hand and there was somebody there
0:06:22 > 0:06:23to listen to me.
0:06:23 > 0:06:27He'd be so pleased to see you sitting here today, talking nonstop,
0:06:27 > 0:06:30- by the way! - LAUGHTER
0:06:33 > 0:06:35Well, you know, it was so good to see Christine
0:06:35 > 0:06:38looking as proud as Punch in the middle of everyone there today,
0:06:38 > 0:06:41and to see just the general atmosphere in the room,
0:06:41 > 0:06:46full of happiness and looking forward, rather than looking back.
0:06:46 > 0:06:50Of course, not everyone's as comfortable with being as sociable
0:06:50 > 0:06:52as Christine and the gang at Just Good Friends.
0:06:52 > 0:06:55In fact, it's thought that for two fifths of all older people
0:06:55 > 0:06:58the television is their main company.
0:07:00 > 0:07:03So, what's the answer for them?
0:07:03 > 0:07:05I've come along to The Silver Line,
0:07:05 > 0:07:09a 24-hour phone service that allows anyone who's feeling lonely to call
0:07:09 > 0:07:13- for a chat.- No problem. You know what? We all do, don't we?
0:07:13 > 0:07:16- No, I can understand that. - How many have you read this week?
0:07:16 > 0:07:19Meeting me today is chief executive, Sophie Andrews.
0:07:19 > 0:07:22What do you do here at Silver Line?
0:07:22 > 0:07:24We've got the 24-hour free confidential helpline,
0:07:24 > 0:07:27which is where we are here today.
0:07:27 > 0:07:30People ring all day and all night with all different problems,
0:07:30 > 0:07:33sometimes for information about local services, sometimes to report abuse.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37Sometimes they want a chat and just want to have a listening ear.
0:07:37 > 0:07:41What unites many of the people who call is the fact that they have
0:07:41 > 0:07:43no-one else to turn to.
0:07:43 > 0:07:45We have received over 1.5 million calls, and those calls
0:07:45 > 0:07:47come from all over the UK.
0:07:47 > 0:07:51So, the age range from 55 up, but most people who call us are over 75.
0:07:51 > 0:07:54It's not necessarily about living on your own.
0:07:54 > 0:07:57Some people, it would be their worst nightmare to live with someone else,
0:07:57 > 0:07:59but it's more about if you've lost a partner, if you've lost a pet,
0:07:59 > 0:08:02if you've lost your driving licence, if you've lost your mobility.
0:08:02 > 0:08:04If there's been some sort of significant change,
0:08:04 > 0:08:06that can really tip things for people.
0:08:06 > 0:08:10There's a large body of medical evidence now which suggests that
0:08:10 > 0:08:13people who are lonely are more at risk of depression,
0:08:13 > 0:08:18high blood pressure, and also have lower resistance to disease.
0:08:18 > 0:08:20Particularly for over 75s, it's a real issue -
0:08:20 > 0:08:23more dangerous than smoking 15 cigarettes a day.
0:08:23 > 0:08:27There's huge health impacts. It's probably a stiff upper lip
0:08:27 > 0:08:29generation, so a whole generation of people who don't want to be
0:08:29 > 0:08:31a burden, don't want to bother people.
0:08:31 > 0:08:34We want to hear from you. We're here, so please ring us.
0:08:34 > 0:08:37With almost a quarter of over-75-year-olds who live alone
0:08:37 > 0:08:42going days without human contact, what is it we can all do to help?
0:08:42 > 0:08:44So, where are you going to go for your shopping?
0:08:44 > 0:08:47So, the problem is growing, what can we do about it?
0:08:47 > 0:08:49It's simple human connections.
0:08:49 > 0:08:51So, how often do we ever look out for our neighbours,
0:08:51 > 0:08:53talk to people in the street? We're all in such a rush,
0:08:53 > 0:08:56and what we're doing at The Silver Line is very simple.
0:08:56 > 0:08:58People will call up for a chat, quite a lot of laughter here,
0:08:58 > 0:09:00as well, call up and tell us a few jokes.
0:09:00 > 0:09:04But it's very, very simple what we do here. We offer that ear 24 hours.
0:09:04 > 0:09:07And today I got the chance to offer an ear myself,
0:09:07 > 0:09:11and, with the person's permission, share the call with you.
0:09:11 > 0:09:15- Hi, Betty?- 'Hello, yeah.' - Hello, how are you?
0:09:15 > 0:09:17'Not too bad, thank you.'
0:09:17 > 0:09:21Good. So, what's day-to-day life for you like now, Betty?
0:09:21 > 0:09:24- 'Lonely, but I have the garden.' - How lonely do you get?
0:09:24 > 0:09:28What makes you pick up the phone to Silver Line?
0:09:28 > 0:09:32'I lost my husband ten years ago, and sometimes, you know, at
0:09:32 > 0:09:35'sort of one o'clock in the morning, I haven't been to sleep.
0:09:35 > 0:09:38'I have got a family, but I don't like to worry them.'
0:09:38 > 0:09:41Yeah, I think a lot of people feel that way,
0:09:41 > 0:09:44but that's why Silver Line's there, because everyone's busy now,
0:09:44 > 0:09:47aren't they? And I know how difficult it must be when you're on
0:09:47 > 0:09:51your own and, you know, there's a long day ahead sometimes, isn't there?
0:09:51 > 0:09:54'Well, thank you for talking to me. It's lovely to hear from you.'
0:09:54 > 0:09:59- Yeah, you too. All the very best. - 'All right.'- Bye.
0:09:59 > 0:10:00Ooh!
0:10:00 > 0:10:03You can see how much Silver Line means to Betty.
0:10:03 > 0:10:06Bless her, she seems a cheerful soul when she's talking to you,
0:10:06 > 0:10:10but she clearly misses her husband, who's been gone for ten years now,
0:10:10 > 0:10:13and her night-times don't sound
0:10:13 > 0:10:16ideal, either, and that's when she phones.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19For many people, loneliness comes about not just with the death of
0:10:19 > 0:10:23a spouse, but when children move far away or they lose touch with grandkids,
0:10:23 > 0:10:30which is why the final initiative I want to introduce you to here in Lancashire is so inspirational.
0:10:30 > 0:10:33- What have you done?- I'm going to carry on doing the butterfly.
0:10:33 > 0:10:35Anybody want this pretty pink?
0:10:35 > 0:10:37It features the Girl Guides,
0:10:37 > 0:10:41who now have the chance to win a special badge for helping combat
0:10:41 > 0:10:45loneliness. And at the Boat Lane Court accommodation in Manchester,
0:10:45 > 0:10:49the girls are doing exactly that, and they're loving it!
0:10:49 > 0:10:53- You just dab your finger down... - And then, like that...
0:10:53 > 0:10:55It seems as though you're enjoying yourself.
0:10:55 > 0:11:00Yeah, we all come here and we get to do all crafts and stuff.
0:11:00 > 0:11:02How much do you like coming here?
0:11:02 > 0:11:06It's just, like, really nice, seeing all the old people, like,
0:11:06 > 0:11:09- making all friends.- And have you learned anything from them?
0:11:09 > 0:11:12Yeah, I've learnt how good they are at art.
0:11:12 > 0:11:16You can do a lot when you're older and when you're younger.
0:11:16 > 0:11:18Even when you're older, you can have a lot of fun.
0:11:22 > 0:11:24And by the looks of things,
0:11:24 > 0:11:27it's not only the children having fun around here.
0:11:27 > 0:11:29You look as though you're enjoying yourself, Mike?
0:11:29 > 0:11:31I'm having a ball, actually.
0:11:31 > 0:11:36- Yeah.- Some of the things they're saying, you go, "Wow, a totally different view!"
0:11:36 > 0:11:39Yeah. So you're learning as much from them as they are from you,
0:11:39 > 0:11:42- really, yeah?- Definitely.- We've been playing noughts and crosses and I've
0:11:42 > 0:11:45told them how to win at the game instead of getting beaten.
0:11:45 > 0:11:49- I hope you haven't told them how to cheat.- No, I never cheat! - LAUGHTER
0:11:51 > 0:11:54If you're feeling lonely, then there are ways of getting help.
0:11:54 > 0:11:56Sometimes it's just a call away,
0:11:56 > 0:12:00so check the phone book or maybe go online for a number.
0:12:00 > 0:12:03Registered volunteers of all ages are out there if you want to get in
0:12:03 > 0:12:07touch with them. And remember, you're actually not alone -
0:12:07 > 0:12:11there are people feeling the same, and they're up for a chat, too,
0:12:11 > 0:12:14- maybe a really, really long one. - LAUGHTER
0:12:14 > 0:12:17You'll have heard the old saying, "Life begins at 40".
0:12:17 > 0:12:18Well, our in-house GP thinks it
0:12:18 > 0:12:21might actually begin with 40 winks, too.
0:12:21 > 0:12:23Easier said than done, sometimes.
0:12:23 > 0:12:26Here's Dr Rangan Chatterjee on why a lack of proper sleep
0:12:26 > 0:12:29is unfortunately uniting the generations.
0:12:32 > 0:12:35As night falls, it should be time to rest,
0:12:35 > 0:12:39but sleep researchers believe that we're getting 1-2 hours less sleep
0:12:39 > 0:12:44a night than we did 60 years ago, and that's causing us major issues.
0:12:44 > 0:12:48In fact, I believe that sleep is the single most undervalued component
0:12:48 > 0:12:50of our health, no matter what your age,
0:12:50 > 0:12:53and sleep deprivation has now reached epidemic levels.
0:12:55 > 0:12:57It's a problem on two levels -
0:12:57 > 0:13:00as both a cause of health issues as we get older,
0:13:00 > 0:13:03increasing our risk for conditions like type 2 diabetes,
0:13:03 > 0:13:07problems with our immune system and even obesity,
0:13:07 > 0:13:10but it can also be a symptom of other underlying conditions,
0:13:10 > 0:13:12like Alzheimer's.
0:13:14 > 0:13:18I've come to the Sleep Research Centre at the University of Surrey,
0:13:18 > 0:13:21where I'm meeting 70-year-old Beverly Stratford,
0:13:21 > 0:13:24who is concerned about her own sleep habits.
0:13:24 > 0:13:26Beverley, just how bad is your sleep?
0:13:26 > 0:13:32If I got to sleep by about 11:45, I invariably wake up two hours later,
0:13:32 > 0:13:34absolutely wide awake.
0:13:34 > 0:13:37And then sometimes, if I've had a really bad night,
0:13:37 > 0:13:42I'll fall asleep about 7:30 and wake up at 8:30 feeling quite groggy.
0:13:42 > 0:13:47How does this disturbed sleep and then fatigue in the mornings affect
0:13:47 > 0:13:48your quality of life?
0:13:49 > 0:13:53Um, I would think it does
0:13:53 > 0:13:56make my next day very difficult.
0:13:56 > 0:14:00It makes me sluggish, and it's very hard to push myself, really,
0:14:00 > 0:14:03to do the things I really want to do.
0:14:03 > 0:14:06So, it's pretty clear that Beverley isn't getting as much sleep as she'd
0:14:06 > 0:14:10like, but what's the cause? She's got her own theory.
0:14:10 > 0:14:15My first husband died, and I think everything stemmed from that.
0:14:15 > 0:14:18So, all the things I have to deal with, the problems,
0:14:18 > 0:14:20if the car breaks down,
0:14:20 > 0:14:23it's down to me, and if I haven't had enough sleep,
0:14:23 > 0:14:25then I just want to cry.
0:14:25 > 0:14:28But if I can have five hours' sleep, then I'm more positive,
0:14:28 > 0:14:30I just deal with it.
0:14:30 > 0:14:32So, what's going on with Beverley?
0:14:32 > 0:14:35Well, there's a neat bit of kit that can help us find out.
0:14:35 > 0:14:38It's called a PSG, or polysomnography,
0:14:38 > 0:14:41and it monitors the brainwaves as we sleep,
0:14:41 > 0:14:43giving us a detailed picture of
0:14:43 > 0:14:46whether there's something more serious causing the disruption.
0:14:46 > 0:14:50In the meantime, I want to find out a bit more about the whole topic,
0:14:50 > 0:14:54and, in particular, whether there's any links between sleep problems and
0:14:54 > 0:14:57- ageing.- Goodnight.- The Sleep Centre's Doctor Derk-Jan Dijk is at
0:14:57 > 0:14:59the cutting edge of this research.
0:14:59 > 0:15:03Can you tell me about some of the research you've done here and looked
0:15:03 > 0:15:05at the association between sleep and ageing?
0:15:05 > 0:15:08In general, older people have less deep slow-wave sleep.
0:15:08 > 0:15:13Also, healthy older people wake up more frequently than younger people.
0:15:13 > 0:15:18Then if we look very carefully at some of the brainwaves during sleep,
0:15:18 > 0:15:20we can find that those brainwaves also change with ageing.
0:15:20 > 0:15:23MUSIC: Sweet Dreams by Eurythmics
0:15:23 > 0:15:26So, proven science, but there are
0:15:26 > 0:15:30some real misconceptions about what helps you get a good night's sleep.
0:15:30 > 0:15:32Many people think that actually having alcohol before bed
0:15:32 > 0:15:35helps them sleep. Is this true?
0:15:35 > 0:15:38Well, it certainly will help them to fall asleep,
0:15:38 > 0:15:41but after a couple of hours, when the initial effects wear off,
0:15:41 > 0:15:44it will start disrupting sleep.
0:15:44 > 0:15:48That disruptive effect of sleep is much more severe in older people.
0:15:48 > 0:15:50Is it the same with caffeine?
0:15:50 > 0:15:54Yes, there are data to show that indeed caffeine also has more,
0:15:54 > 0:15:57a stronger effect in older people compared to younger people.
0:15:59 > 0:16:02And there is one sleep dilemma that is now affecting us for the first
0:16:02 > 0:16:06time in our species' history, and it's all down to technology.
0:16:06 > 0:16:0815 years ago or so, for many of us,
0:16:08 > 0:16:11there was good demarcation between work life and home life,
0:16:11 > 0:16:14whereas now, with our phones and e-mails,
0:16:14 > 0:16:16we're all doing it seven days a week.
0:16:16 > 0:16:20I agree. That's a major change, and there is very little doubt that this
0:16:20 > 0:16:23will have an impact also on our sleep quality.
0:16:23 > 0:16:27I think that what we now know is that sleep is important.
0:16:27 > 0:16:29Sufficient sleep is important for physical health,
0:16:29 > 0:16:33sufficient sleep is important for mental health.
0:16:33 > 0:16:37Sufficient sleep is important for aspects of brain function.
0:16:37 > 0:16:43Generally, an adult up to the age of 65 needs eight or nine hours' sleep.
0:16:43 > 0:16:48- Beyond 65, the time reduces to seven or eight hours a night. - ALARM CLOCK BEEPS
0:16:48 > 0:16:52So, with this in mind, let's find out how Beverley slept last night.
0:16:54 > 0:16:58After a quick cuppa to wake her up, it's time to see the results.
0:16:58 > 0:17:02Giuseppe Atzori is the senior clinical research officer.
0:17:02 > 0:17:06So, Giuseppe, you've been monitoring Beverley's sleep through the night.
0:17:06 > 0:17:08Can you tell me what you've found?
0:17:08 > 0:17:12So, from this black line to there is the period it took for you
0:17:12 > 0:17:15to fall asleep. 29 minutes.
0:17:15 > 0:17:19Now, that is acceptable, in terms of Beverley's age.
0:17:19 > 0:17:21The older we become,
0:17:21 > 0:17:23the less efficiently we sleep.
0:17:23 > 0:17:27You estimate that you woke up about ten times during the night.
0:17:27 > 0:17:30You woke up a little bit more than that.
0:17:30 > 0:17:32It's about 20-odd times.
0:17:32 > 0:17:35There are areas of awake here, for example,
0:17:35 > 0:17:37that are probably about 60 seconds,
0:17:37 > 0:17:40and we worked it out at around about an hour, an hour and a half.
0:17:40 > 0:17:43And what sort of levels would you like to see there?
0:17:43 > 0:17:46So, anything between 10-20 minutes.
0:17:46 > 0:17:50- Right.- If we take into consideration your age and your sex,
0:17:50 > 0:17:55- you haven't done too badly.- No, that's very, very interesting.
0:17:55 > 0:17:57So, based upon what we're seeing here, what you've found,
0:17:57 > 0:18:02it doesn't appear from this data that there's any primary sleep
0:18:02 > 0:18:05disorder that might explain Beverley's sleep problems.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08- I agree.- I certainly think it's really good that we've managed to,
0:18:08 > 0:18:10you know, by and large, rule that out.
0:18:10 > 0:18:15In my own experience of seeing patients who are struggling with
0:18:15 > 0:18:18their sleep, most times I find that there's something going on in
0:18:18 > 0:18:23their lifestyle that they don't realise is negatively impacting their ability to sleep,
0:18:23 > 0:18:27- and it's probably time to focus on those things with a bit more detail. - Yes.
0:18:27 > 0:18:31It gives you a positive start in sorting...
0:18:31 > 0:18:33trying to sort other things out.
0:18:34 > 0:18:37And that's exactly what we're going to do.
0:18:37 > 0:18:41So, as night approaches, I'm going to visit Beverley at home.
0:18:41 > 0:18:43- Hello, do come in. - Hi, how are you doing?
0:18:43 > 0:18:45So, how are you feeling about everything?
0:18:45 > 0:18:47Very good, very interesting.
0:18:47 > 0:18:50So, I thought I'd come and have a look around, if that's OK, and try
0:18:50 > 0:18:53and figure out what I might be able to suggest to help you sleep.
0:18:53 > 0:18:56And one thing jumps straight out at me.
0:18:56 > 0:18:58So, how much tea do you drink?
0:18:58 > 0:19:01Erm, four to five cups a day, ish.
0:19:01 > 0:19:04- And what time's the last one? - Seven o'clock.
0:19:04 > 0:19:07I try not to drink anything after seven o'clock.
0:19:07 > 0:19:10My rule of thumb is that most people who come see me in the practice who
0:19:10 > 0:19:16can't sleep, I recommend that they try and stop at a hard 12 o'clock, midday.
0:19:16 > 0:19:19Gosh! That's a long time without tea!
0:19:19 > 0:19:22- So, is this where you spend your evenings?- Yes, it is.
0:19:22 > 0:19:25I see the telly's on, there's a laptop.
0:19:25 > 0:19:28- Is that a reader?- Yes, I've got lots of personal things to do and
0:19:28 > 0:19:32- lots of e-mails.- These devices, they emit blue light.
0:19:32 > 0:19:34And blue light, really, out in nature,
0:19:34 > 0:19:37- you only really get it in the earlier part of the day.- Oh, OK.
0:19:37 > 0:19:40We're not really designed to get blue light in the evenings,
0:19:40 > 0:19:43and if you're looking at, you know, this e-reader,
0:19:43 > 0:19:44or this laptop in the evening,
0:19:44 > 0:19:48the blue light can often reduce levels of a hormone called
0:19:48 > 0:19:51melatonin, and melatonin helps you sleep.
0:19:51 > 0:19:54Now, the most important place - the bedroom.
0:19:54 > 0:19:57I can see you've got, next to your bed here, I can see you've got a
0:19:57 > 0:20:01- phone. Does this glow in the night? - Yes, it does.- Does it? That could be
0:20:01 > 0:20:04- having an impact on your sleep, I'm afraid.- Right.- So, really we'd
0:20:04 > 0:20:07encourage you to try and make this room as dark as possible.
0:20:07 > 0:20:10So, these look pretty good, these blackout curtains.
0:20:10 > 0:20:13- Yes.- Do they block out all the light?- Uh, not quite.
0:20:15 > 0:20:19If it's a very bright moon, then there's nothing I can do with it.
0:20:19 > 0:20:21Yeah, there's quite a lot of light, isn't there, coming out?
0:20:21 > 0:20:26- Yes.- What you could do, actually, it's a bit more work, but you can
0:20:26 > 0:20:29actually get some blackout blinds fitted here, that you just
0:20:29 > 0:20:32pull down, so you really get a nice, snug fit against the windows.
0:20:32 > 0:20:36So, plenty that can be done. Time to sit down with Beverley.
0:20:36 > 0:20:40So, Beverley, I think I've got a pretty good idea now of what's going on here,
0:20:40 > 0:20:44and I've got some tips that I think are going to help you get better sleep.
0:20:44 > 0:20:46The first thing I'd say is caffeine, OK?
0:20:46 > 0:20:50Try and cut it back, so you're only having it in the morning.
0:20:50 > 0:20:53Second tip, try and get outside in the morning, if you can.
0:20:53 > 0:20:56Exposing ourselves to natural light really helps us sleep in the
0:20:56 > 0:20:59evening. Third thing, I think you need a bedtime routine.
0:20:59 > 0:21:02So, some people like an alarm in the evening to say,
0:21:02 > 0:21:05"OK, now it's time to wind down for bed."
0:21:05 > 0:21:07The fourth one is what I call a "no tech 90",
0:21:07 > 0:21:12switching off all modern technology for around 90 minutes before bed.
0:21:12 > 0:21:15And the final tip is, make your bedroom as dark as you can.
0:21:15 > 0:21:17- Right, yes, I can do that.- OK?
0:21:17 > 0:21:21I've seen these little, simple tips help transform the sleep in my
0:21:21 > 0:21:24patients, and I'm pretty sure that, if you can stick to quite a few of
0:21:24 > 0:21:31- those ones, I think you will be sleeping a lot better, pretty quickly.- Brilliant.
0:21:31 > 0:21:33If you don't wake up feeling refreshed in the morning,
0:21:33 > 0:21:36it can be a pretty good indication that there's something wrong with
0:21:36 > 0:21:38either the amount or the quality of your sleep,
0:21:38 > 0:21:43but you'll be pleased to hear that it's pretty simple to improve this.
0:21:43 > 0:21:45And, after following these tips,
0:21:45 > 0:21:48Beverley reports experiencing a real difference
0:21:48 > 0:21:50in the quality of her sleep.
0:21:50 > 0:21:52All right, time to get quizzical.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55Just look at these clips and work out when they all took place.
0:21:55 > 0:22:00Yeah, and the question is simple: What was the year that was?
0:22:00 > 0:22:03So, here's how the game works.
0:22:03 > 0:22:07We're going to give you a few key events that all happened in the
0:22:07 > 0:22:10space of a year, but which year?
0:22:10 > 0:22:13And here's why you should play along, by the way.
0:22:13 > 0:22:16Psychologists have said that nostalgia can promote a sense of
0:22:16 > 0:22:19wellbeing and vitality in us all,
0:22:19 > 0:22:24so this really could help you hold back the years.
0:22:24 > 0:22:27MUSIC: Wuthering Heights by Kate Bush
0:22:30 > 0:22:34DEMONSTRATORS CHANT
0:22:34 > 0:22:37- What do we want?- Fair pay. - When do we want it?- Now!
0:22:47 > 0:22:50There's quite a crowd gathered outside here, and the neighbours
0:22:50 > 0:22:52have been extremely tolerant of the comings and goings
0:22:52 > 0:22:55of the international press, leaning over their gardens.
0:22:55 > 0:22:58In fact, next door, they've been taking in bunches of flowers.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01MUSIC: Chicken Man by Alan Hawkshaw
0:23:12 > 0:23:14And we'll bring you the answer at the end of the show.
0:23:14 > 0:23:19Now, then, when it comes to getting older, size definitely matters -
0:23:19 > 0:23:21the size of your house, that is -
0:23:21 > 0:23:23which is why many people choose to move to a smaller home.
0:23:23 > 0:23:26But doing that can not only be a logistical nightmare,
0:23:26 > 0:23:30it's also very pricey, possibly, and emotionally draining.
0:23:30 > 0:23:33Nicki Chapman has been to Hampshire for us
0:23:33 > 0:23:36to meet the ultimate downsizers, for tips on how to do it properly.
0:23:39 > 0:23:40According to the latest stats,
0:23:40 > 0:23:44Britain is on the verge of a property revolution,
0:23:44 > 0:23:48as nearly 6 million of us consider downsizing our lives.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52And it makes sense. Your children have left home,
0:23:52 > 0:23:56and you're rattling around in a house with empty bedrooms,
0:23:56 > 0:23:59so you decide to move to somewhere smaller
0:23:59 > 0:24:01that leaves you better off financially,
0:24:01 > 0:24:04plus it's an awful lot easier to look after.
0:24:04 > 0:24:06For most of us, of course,
0:24:06 > 0:24:10this might involve moving from a suburban semi to a bungalow,
0:24:10 > 0:24:14or a busy city street to the peaceful surrounds of the seaside.
0:24:14 > 0:24:16For a certain section of society, however,
0:24:16 > 0:24:19downsizing is a super-sized affair.
0:24:19 > 0:24:22Today, I'm going to be hanging out in their world,
0:24:22 > 0:24:25hoping to pick up some top tips we can all use.
0:24:25 > 0:24:27Six months ago, Anthea Marr and her
0:24:27 > 0:24:29husband, Brian, lived here in Surrey,
0:24:29 > 0:24:33in this stunning nine-bedroom country manor house,
0:24:33 > 0:24:37until they decided to pack up, ship out and hand over the keys.
0:24:37 > 0:24:42She's showing me around what they've left behind, from the outside in.
0:24:42 > 0:24:45This was an office and a playroom in general.
0:24:45 > 0:24:47- Oh.- We used to have a billiard table in here.
0:24:47 > 0:24:49And the kitchen, which is nice and big.
0:24:49 > 0:24:52- Oh, yes.- Going into a little breakfast room here.
0:24:52 > 0:24:55Wonderful parties in that room there.
0:24:55 > 0:24:57Since you sold it, how many times have you been back?
0:24:57 > 0:25:00- This is the first, really. - Is it painful?- Yes.
0:25:00 > 0:25:04Definitely. We had, you know, what, 25 years here, blissfully happy,
0:25:04 > 0:25:10- loved it.- I'm looking at it in wonder, because it is so peaceful,
0:25:10 > 0:25:13so tranquil, and then in the back of my head, something's saying to me,
0:25:13 > 0:25:17- "That's an awful lot of work." - That's why we moved!
0:25:17 > 0:25:20It was much easier to downsize to something we could manage without
0:25:20 > 0:25:22endless problems.
0:25:22 > 0:25:26So, what does downsizing look like for those who can afford it?
0:25:28 > 0:25:31Well, it meant the moving from something massive
0:25:31 > 0:25:33to something...just big.
0:25:33 > 0:25:35Let's have a nosy.
0:25:35 > 0:25:39This is the sitting room, and as you can see, it's lovely and light.
0:25:39 > 0:25:42- Aren't we lucky?- Goodness, this is a wonderful room, isn't it?
0:25:42 > 0:25:45- Isn't it?- Very homely, but you have that space.
0:25:45 > 0:25:49Wonderful light. When the sun is out, there's beautiful light in here.
0:25:49 > 0:25:52This is the dining room - small, but you can get six in here.
0:25:52 > 0:25:55And what about the furniture? Because it works beautifully in here.
0:25:55 > 0:25:58- Yes, this is all mine. - All from the big house?
0:25:58 > 0:26:00All from the big house. We didn't buy anything for here at all.
0:26:00 > 0:26:03There's a bedroom in here.
0:26:03 > 0:26:06Ah, so you actually have a second reception room here?
0:26:06 > 0:26:10Yes, we wanted a spare room so we could have friends to stay,
0:26:10 > 0:26:12or the children, and it's got an en-suite in there.
0:26:12 > 0:26:16- Oh, which is perfect.- And... It is perfect. And also, as we get older,
0:26:16 > 0:26:18we may prefer not to sleep upstairs.
0:26:18 > 0:26:21Anthea and her husband, Brian, chose to buy a lifetime occupancy
0:26:21 > 0:26:24their home, rather than purchase it outright.
0:26:24 > 0:26:26It's a low-stress arrangement,
0:26:26 > 0:26:28and a service charge takes care of cleaning,
0:26:28 > 0:26:30gardening and the utility bills.
0:26:30 > 0:26:33But even though their new home is beautiful,
0:26:33 > 0:26:35the move here hasn't been easy.
0:26:37 > 0:26:40So, when you made that decision to downsize, was it liberating,
0:26:40 > 0:26:43or was it actually heartbreaking, doing it?
0:26:43 > 0:26:45- Mmm, pretty heartbreaking.- Was it?
0:26:45 > 0:26:49- But has it been the right decision, do you think?- I think so, yes.
0:26:49 > 0:26:53My husband had been quite ill for some time, and I had a major
0:26:53 > 0:26:57operation, and found things very, very tough afterwards.
0:26:57 > 0:27:02Were you surprised how difficult it was, once you'd made that decision,
0:27:02 > 0:27:04to physically make the move?
0:27:04 > 0:27:07The packing, the deciding what you're going to sell,
0:27:07 > 0:27:08what you're going to keep?
0:27:08 > 0:27:12- Oh, yes, we got... The divorce lawyers nearly came. - LAUGHTER
0:27:12 > 0:27:14Oh, don't be mean!
0:27:14 > 0:27:17But it's not just leaving your home that most people find difficult
0:27:17 > 0:27:19when it comes to downsizing.
0:27:19 > 0:27:22It's having to get rid of all the stuff they've accumulated over the
0:27:22 > 0:27:26years, when they find they've nowhere to put it,
0:27:26 > 0:27:30and this is as true for the haves as it is for those who have a little less.
0:27:30 > 0:27:32We had some beautiful Beijing plates,
0:27:32 > 0:27:35which my father brought back from China.
0:27:35 > 0:27:38But, very reluctantly, we sent them to auction and we made a lot of
0:27:38 > 0:27:41money on it, but it was terribly hard.
0:27:41 > 0:27:43- Yeah.- We love them. - Was it quite exciting, though,
0:27:43 > 0:27:48once you'd decided to get rid of them, to see the prices going up or not?
0:27:48 > 0:27:52- Did you keep thinking... - I was surprised, terribly surprised, yes.- Were you?- And we kept getting
0:27:52 > 0:27:54these notes saying that the plate had gone up.
0:27:54 > 0:27:56I thought, "That's a lot."
0:27:56 > 0:28:00Incredibly, the price reached £300 per plate.
0:28:00 > 0:28:03Of course, if you have a lot of potentially valuable things, then
0:28:03 > 0:28:06you might need someone to help you shift them, and for the ultimate
0:28:06 > 0:28:08downsizers, there's help at hand.
0:28:08 > 0:28:13Thomas Plant is an auctioneer who has found that business is booming.
0:28:13 > 0:28:15Now, Thomas, as a successful auctioneer,
0:28:15 > 0:28:19how important for your business is the downsizing market?
0:28:19 > 0:28:22- Oh, downsizing is massive. - Is it?- It really is, yes.
0:28:22 > 0:28:25When I first started in the business, many moons ago,
0:28:25 > 0:28:29we used to deal in three Ds - Death, Divorce and Destitution.
0:28:29 > 0:28:33- Oh!- Yeah. But there's a fourth thing, a bigger D, and that's downsizing.
0:28:33 > 0:28:36It's an absolutely huge market.
0:28:36 > 0:28:41Everything from furniture to toys to vinyl to old hi-fi...
0:28:41 > 0:28:43- So, it really varies.- ..antiques. Yeah.
0:28:43 > 0:28:46Does it come as a surprise to people, how much it's all worth?
0:28:46 > 0:28:49Generally, you go around and say, "Well, that's worth £50.
0:28:49 > 0:28:51"That might be worth £100. That might be worth 300."
0:28:51 > 0:28:53And they're all little figures.
0:28:53 > 0:28:56Actually, when they all add up, they make a huge difference.
0:28:56 > 0:29:00And when you're an ultimate downsizer, everything you don't auction off,
0:29:00 > 0:29:03you'll want to arrive in your new home in one piece,
0:29:03 > 0:29:06and that's where Amanda Fyfe and Susan Griffiths come in.
0:29:06 > 0:29:10They recognised that handling the practicalities of downsizing was
0:29:10 > 0:29:14a business opportunity, and now they specialise in Senior Moves -
0:29:14 > 0:29:19for the more discerning downsizer who prefers others to do the heavy lifting.
0:29:19 > 0:29:22So, once someone's made the big decision to downsize,
0:29:22 > 0:29:25what advice do you start off with?
0:29:25 > 0:29:29- Ah.- Deep breath, that's number one, wasn't it?
0:29:29 > 0:29:32Deep breath. I would split it into three. You need to decide where you
0:29:32 > 0:29:35are going to go, you need to decide what's going to fit into your
0:29:35 > 0:29:36new home, you need to decide,
0:29:36 > 0:29:39therefore, when you know what's going to fit,
0:29:39 > 0:29:41you know what you can dispose of.
0:29:41 > 0:29:44If you're used to having a four-bedroom home, it's very
0:29:44 > 0:29:47difficult to suddenly go to two bedrooms, isn't it?
0:29:47 > 0:29:50So, you're dealing with the emotions there, and the memories of that
0:29:50 > 0:29:53- property.- That's where people can become quite frightened
0:29:53 > 0:29:55and overwhelmed by the whole process,
0:29:55 > 0:29:58because they just don't know where to start.
0:29:58 > 0:30:01Downsizing needs to be done with the head more than the heart, and it was
0:30:01 > 0:30:06Amanda and Susan who helped Anthea and Brian make their move.
0:30:06 > 0:30:10This is for Anthea's house.
0:30:10 > 0:30:13So, we take their floor plans and then measure their furniture and
0:30:13 > 0:30:16then plan it. And we sit with them and they'll go,
0:30:16 > 0:30:19"Oh, can we have the sofa this way?" All our clients are always in
0:30:19 > 0:30:23control, so it's their choice. Once we've got that, then we know
0:30:23 > 0:30:26it'll fit and everything else they don't have, we know then has got to
0:30:26 > 0:30:28be disposed of.
0:30:28 > 0:30:32So, if someone wanted to, they literally could sell their house,
0:30:32 > 0:30:34you go off and move them into the new one, and they just turn up,
0:30:34 > 0:30:38- open the door and walk straight in. - That's our ideal, actually.
0:30:38 > 0:30:40They go and have a lovely day and a lovely lunch,
0:30:40 > 0:30:42and we'll look after the removers,
0:30:42 > 0:30:44and then they come in and they've got a lovely home.
0:30:44 > 0:30:47The bed will be made, the TV will be connected, kitchen unpacked.
0:30:47 > 0:30:49And then they can start their life.
0:30:49 > 0:30:52Now, sometimes, ultimate downsizers don't want to go smaller,
0:30:52 > 0:30:55they want to go somewhere even bigger
0:30:55 > 0:30:59but which they can share, and that's where this place comes in.
0:30:59 > 0:31:03Welcome to Hawthorn Lodge retirement community, where t'ai chi under the
0:31:03 > 0:31:05chandeliers is part of the daily routine.
0:31:05 > 0:31:07MUSIC: Keep Fit by George Formby
0:31:07 > 0:31:09# Keep fit, skip on your toes
0:31:09 > 0:31:10# That's it, each movement shows
0:31:10 > 0:31:12# Your bit of muscle grows
0:31:12 > 0:31:15# Whatever you do, keep fit. #
0:31:15 > 0:31:17Were you nervous coming here, making that big decision?
0:31:17 > 0:31:19Yes. A little bit.
0:31:19 > 0:31:23But it was made so simple for me, really, when I reflect back.
0:31:23 > 0:31:25So, does anybody here wish they'd done it sooner?
0:31:25 > 0:31:29Yes. Maybe three or four years sooner.
0:31:29 > 0:31:34Although downsizing may not be easy, change can be positive.
0:31:35 > 0:31:38Here you've all decided to downsize,
0:31:38 > 0:31:41but you're all living within a community, as well.
0:31:41 > 0:31:44- Was that important?- Yes.- It was?
0:31:44 > 0:31:47I think the greatest thing about that is that we have our
0:31:47 > 0:31:49independence in our own apartment,
0:31:49 > 0:31:53but if ever you walk out here, there's somebody having coffee
0:31:53 > 0:31:55- and you can talk and... - Everybody's story is different,
0:31:55 > 0:31:58everybody's experience is different as well, isn't it?
0:31:58 > 0:32:02- But no regrets?- Absolutely none. None at all.- Lots of fun to be had.
0:32:02 > 0:32:04- Lots of fun to be had. - LAUGHTER
0:32:04 > 0:32:06Well said. Well, you certainly look happy here.
0:32:06 > 0:32:08Thank you all very much.
0:32:08 > 0:32:11Now, obviously, this has been a bit of fun, but, you know,
0:32:11 > 0:32:14I think there are lessons for all of us.
0:32:14 > 0:32:16Here are the top tips I've picked up today...
0:32:16 > 0:32:19One - be practical.
0:32:19 > 0:32:22There's no point hanging around just for the emotional value of
0:32:22 > 0:32:25a house if you can't physically make it work.
0:32:25 > 0:32:29Two - there's money to be made, and there could be people out there who
0:32:29 > 0:32:31want to buy your stuff.
0:32:31 > 0:32:33And three - you're not alone.
0:32:33 > 0:32:36So, get help. More hands make light work.
0:32:42 > 0:32:47And finally, I just want to say goodbye to Anthea and Brian,
0:32:47 > 0:32:49and I've bought them a gift.
0:32:49 > 0:32:53Because you made such a success of finding a new home and
0:32:53 > 0:32:57- downsizing, at great expense... - LAUGHTER
0:32:57 > 0:33:01..we have done our very own plate to the two of you.
0:33:01 > 0:33:04- Oh...- Thank you very much. - Look at that, Brian.
0:33:04 > 0:33:08- Not quite from Beijing like the originals, but...- Oh, no, but I'm thrilled to bits.
0:33:08 > 0:33:11- ..for the next phase in your lives.- Yes, absolutely thrilled.
0:33:11 > 0:33:13- And Bertie's as well. - And Bertie. Look, Bertie!
0:33:13 > 0:33:16And we wish all three the very best.
0:33:18 > 0:33:21We end today's programme by returning to the topic of loneliness,
0:33:21 > 0:33:26or rather the measures being taken to combat it for all ages.
0:33:26 > 0:33:29This is the story of the podcast pals.
0:33:29 > 0:33:32Ah, a nice cup of tea.
0:33:32 > 0:33:36You really can't beat it, no matter what age you are.
0:33:36 > 0:33:39And it's the timeless nature of the good old British cuppa that has
0:33:39 > 0:33:41become the basis for a brand-new podcast.
0:33:41 > 0:33:44That's a radio show on the internet, to you and me.
0:33:44 > 0:33:51Chris Heath from Peterborough is the mastermind behind this podcast.
0:33:51 > 0:33:54I wanted to do a podcast, and it was going to be a TV review thing, like
0:33:54 > 0:33:57lots of people probably are doing already.
0:33:57 > 0:34:00And so I needed to make sure the microphones all worked, so I sat,
0:34:00 > 0:34:04I was at my nan's house, and I sat her down and said,
0:34:04 > 0:34:07"I'll just interview you, just to make sure the microphone works,"
0:34:07 > 0:34:09and she said, well, "I don't know what to say."
0:34:09 > 0:34:11I said, "Well, let's just talk about your life."
0:34:11 > 0:34:15And so we did. And an hour and a half later, we were still talking.
0:34:16 > 0:34:20It suddenly hit me, this is really good if you get out there and talk
0:34:20 > 0:34:23to people, everyone's got a fascinating life.
0:34:23 > 0:34:27Chris set his sights on chatting to the nation's gran and grandads,
0:34:27 > 0:34:30but he soon realised that it could have an extra dimension.
0:34:31 > 0:34:34I wanted to focus on the loneliness of older people.
0:34:34 > 0:34:37I think, like anyone, I've had spells of loneliness, too.
0:34:37 > 0:34:41And actually, you realise, if it's bad for me at this stage in my life,
0:34:41 > 0:34:46what must it be like after 50 years of being with the same person and
0:34:46 > 0:34:48then suddenly losing them?
0:34:48 > 0:34:51And as a way of combating my own loneliness at the time,
0:34:51 > 0:34:54I kind of threw myself at the podcast. It gave me something useful
0:34:54 > 0:34:58and healthy, and the great thing is I've now got a kind of a queue,
0:34:58 > 0:35:01almost like a waiting list of people waiting to be interviewed.
0:35:01 > 0:35:04People love reminiscing. Their, kind of, eyes mist over and they'll just
0:35:04 > 0:35:07let everything out and tell you everything.
0:35:07 > 0:35:09Chris is off on his travels to
0:35:09 > 0:35:13record the latest edition of his podcast with 85-year-old
0:35:13 > 0:35:15Tommy Walsh from Manchester.
0:35:18 > 0:35:22Tommy Walsh, welcome to Two Cups Of Tea, the podcast.
0:35:22 > 0:35:23Take me back to the beginning.
0:35:23 > 0:35:25What was it like for the early Tommy Walsh?
0:35:25 > 0:35:28I'm the youngest of nine children,
0:35:28 > 0:35:32and I was brought up - and it's unbelievable, this, but it's true -
0:35:32 > 0:35:37nine children in a one-up and one-down house with
0:35:37 > 0:35:39a cold water tap in the yard.
0:35:39 > 0:35:43Now, Chris, Two Cups Of Tea is a lovely intergenerational thing,
0:35:43 > 0:35:46- isn't it?- Yeah.- And that doesn't go on enough in society, does it?
0:35:46 > 0:35:49It really doesn't, sadly. You'll get elderly people,
0:35:49 > 0:35:51"I don't understand the computer, my grandson does it," all that.
0:35:51 > 0:35:57But what I find now, and it is... There's more and more people are...
0:35:57 > 0:36:00- IT literate.- ..literate, that's the word.
0:36:00 > 0:36:04So, this sort of thing is available because more and more people are
0:36:04 > 0:36:07using the internet, which is great.
0:36:07 > 0:36:11Yeah. Do people in their 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, listen to your podcasts
0:36:11 > 0:36:13or... Who's the audience?
0:36:13 > 0:36:17I assumed it was people my age or maybe a bit younger who listened to
0:36:17 > 0:36:20podcasts in the main, but Tommy has got the internet in the corner of
0:36:20 > 0:36:24his room and so many, I found so many nanas who've got iPads and are
0:36:24 > 0:36:26completely hooked up to the internet,
0:36:26 > 0:36:28so, everyone is kind of listening to it.
0:36:28 > 0:36:30And it's really gratifying,
0:36:30 > 0:36:33the messages and stuff that I've been getting back.
0:36:33 > 0:36:35The experience of meeting the likes
0:36:35 > 0:36:38of Tommy has left Chris with a theory.
0:36:38 > 0:36:42The one thing I've found over the 15 or 16 people I've interviewed so far
0:36:42 > 0:36:45is there's no such thing as an ordinary life.
0:36:45 > 0:36:48Everyone out there has a story to tell, if you get out there and talk
0:36:48 > 0:36:51to people and listen to it.
0:36:51 > 0:36:55And Chris has found his fair share of interesting characters.
0:36:55 > 0:36:58When I'm talking to all these people, hearing their life stories,
0:36:58 > 0:37:01they say, "Oh, you don't want to ask me, I haven't had a very interesting life, really."
0:37:01 > 0:37:05And then it'll turn out that the same person who says they haven't
0:37:05 > 0:37:09had an interesting life was the last person to see Tony Hancock alive
0:37:09 > 0:37:12before he died, or they were in Alan Bennett's gang at school,
0:37:12 > 0:37:15- was a guy I interviewed.- Someone who met Vincent Price...
0:37:15 > 0:37:19- Yeah, who spent a day in Sydney with Vincent Price!- That's it, yeah.
0:37:19 > 0:37:22And had to interview a naked Muhammad Ali in his hotel room
0:37:22 > 0:37:24in the '60s!
0:37:24 > 0:37:26Bernard Manning worked with your sister?
0:37:26 > 0:37:30Yeah, Nellie. Bernard and I became quite close friends,
0:37:30 > 0:37:33cos I knew him in his early years, when he wasn't quite so famous.
0:37:33 > 0:37:36Would you believe it?
0:37:36 > 0:37:39And I, at that time, I used to do a bit of chirping, as they call it.
0:37:39 > 0:37:41A bit of singing. But he used to say to me,
0:37:41 > 0:37:45"Why don't you do semi-pro singing and I said, "No, I can't really do
0:37:45 > 0:37:47"that, I'm serving an apprenticeship,
0:37:47 > 0:37:49"you know, I can't just chuck it."
0:37:49 > 0:37:52- Then I thought about it, so I spoke to the old fella.- Yeah.
0:37:52 > 0:37:55"You're going to stay there until you're 21 and then you can do what
0:37:55 > 0:37:59"you want," that sort of thing. And, actually, it was good advice.
0:37:59 > 0:38:03Although the idea for Two Cups Of Tea was originally a chance for
0:38:03 > 0:38:06Chris to prove his theory that there is no such thing as an ordinary
0:38:06 > 0:38:10life, the podcast soon got the attention of The Campaign To End Loneliness.
0:38:10 > 0:38:16Laura, from the organisation, saw it as a real opportunity.
0:38:16 > 0:38:19What Chris is doing with these podcasts, most importantly, I think,
0:38:19 > 0:38:26is debunking the myth that older people are boring, quiet,
0:38:26 > 0:38:28happy to sit in the corner of a room.
0:38:28 > 0:38:32And they've got these rich experiences that are going to make
0:38:32 > 0:38:34you laugh, might make you cry,
0:38:34 > 0:38:39and will totally demystify the idea that later life and older age is
0:38:39 > 0:38:43something to be forgotten or ignored.
0:38:43 > 0:38:46There are many contributing factors to loneliness,
0:38:46 > 0:38:49one of them being that, whilst in many countries, families live
0:38:49 > 0:38:51together with all the generations under one roof,
0:38:51 > 0:38:54the same is not true here in the UK.
0:38:56 > 0:39:00There are a whole range of
0:39:00 > 0:39:04things that are happening in society that are marginalising older people.
0:39:04 > 0:39:09Everything from media perception of age, but more than that,
0:39:09 > 0:39:12we're used to now moving away from our hometowns,
0:39:12 > 0:39:16and moving far away, and we've started to move towards
0:39:16 > 0:39:18a habit, I suppose,
0:39:18 > 0:39:23and a way of thinking about later life as being something that
0:39:23 > 0:39:27can be helped and supported through our older relatives living in
0:39:27 > 0:39:30care homes or residential homes.
0:39:30 > 0:39:34So, what help and support can podcasts such as Chris's offer?
0:39:34 > 0:39:35It's really important for people of
0:39:35 > 0:39:37all ages to interact with each other.
0:39:37 > 0:39:41It just gives us that in to say, you know, "Let's listen to this podcast together."
0:39:41 > 0:39:45So, anyone who wants to make those small moments of connection,
0:39:45 > 0:39:48a bit like the way Chris has showcased,
0:39:48 > 0:39:52to start those conversations with people who are potentially lonely,
0:39:52 > 0:39:54or who just want to tell their story,
0:39:54 > 0:39:57we'll be running a major campaign in April 2018.
0:39:57 > 0:40:00If you want to be part of that, sign up by going onto our website
0:40:00 > 0:40:04and we'll keep you with us on every step of that exciting journey,
0:40:04 > 0:40:07making loneliness everyone's business.
0:40:07 > 0:40:12And helping with loneliness is definitely something Tommy appreciates.
0:40:12 > 0:40:14Even though I'm active,
0:40:14 > 0:40:19I get out and I turn up at all sorts of coffee mornings and that sort of thing,
0:40:19 > 0:40:23which helped, it's so nice, and this is what I urge people to do,
0:40:23 > 0:40:26just be polite, mate. Just give us ten minutes.
0:40:26 > 0:40:28"How are you, Tommy? How's your day going, Tommy?
0:40:28 > 0:40:30"What are you doing tomorrow, Tommy?"
0:40:30 > 0:40:34Great conversation is what, from being with you, I can see is what you're very good at.
0:40:34 > 0:40:38It's what you need in a day, isn't it? You need to be speaking and communicating with people.
0:40:38 > 0:40:41You do, indeed. Loneliness is mainly in the evening.
0:40:41 > 0:40:46And even a telephone call, a ten-minute call, it's surprising how it bucks you up, sort of thing.
0:40:46 > 0:40:50- It's worthwhile.- Do they all talk as much as Tommy, Chris?
0:40:50 > 0:40:53Most of them, much less. LAUGHTER
0:40:53 > 0:40:57But, you know, luckily, I've got a very long tape.
0:40:57 > 0:40:59And when all the talking's done, back at home,
0:40:59 > 0:41:03Chris edits and uploads this latest edition.
0:41:03 > 0:41:06So, Tommy joins the rest of his podcast pals,
0:41:06 > 0:41:09but who are some of his favourites on there?
0:41:09 > 0:41:11Take it away, Chris.
0:41:12 > 0:41:14Thanks, Fiona.
0:41:14 > 0:41:17At number three, we've got 89-year-old Joe, who enjoyed the
0:41:17 > 0:41:22bright lights of the Manchester cabaret circuit from a tender age.
0:41:22 > 0:41:27At number two, it's 83-year-old Felix. Raised in Spanish Harlem,
0:41:27 > 0:41:29New York, he eventually moved to the
0:41:29 > 0:41:33United Kingdom and became a judge at Crufts. Woof-woof!
0:41:35 > 0:41:40And, at number one, it's 95-year-old Jessie Denby,
0:41:40 > 0:41:44who manned the anti-aircraft guns in the Second World War.
0:41:44 > 0:41:46So, listening to her could be your finest hour.
0:41:46 > 0:41:48Back to you, Fiona.
0:41:48 > 0:41:51And if you'd like to hear Jessie and more, you can listen to Chris's
0:41:51 > 0:41:53podcast at...
0:41:57 > 0:41:59But what, in the end,
0:41:59 > 0:42:02has been the main lesson that Chris has learned from all of this?
0:42:05 > 0:42:09It's the easiest thing in the world to make a massive difference in
0:42:09 > 0:42:11people's lives.
0:42:12 > 0:42:15In terms of loneliness, this isn't, I mean, you know,
0:42:15 > 0:42:19there's other problems in the world that are much harder to solve.
0:42:19 > 0:42:21But not this one.
0:42:21 > 0:42:23You go out and find the people on your street, who you know live
0:42:23 > 0:42:26alone, and who you know might need someone to talk to,
0:42:26 > 0:42:29just do it one house at a time. That's how you make a difference.
0:42:29 > 0:42:31There's all these amazing people out there
0:42:31 > 0:42:33who we're not talking to, who we should be.
0:42:36 > 0:42:39Actually, the one thing I have learned more than anything else is
0:42:39 > 0:42:43that old people make the best tea in the world.
0:42:46 > 0:42:48And we've just got time to tell you the answer to our
0:42:48 > 0:42:51"What was the year that was?" archive quiz. Fiona...
0:42:51 > 0:42:54It was 1978.
0:42:54 > 0:42:57The year that Evita opened in London's West End.
0:42:57 > 0:42:59That marvellous musical. Don't cry for us, though.
0:42:59 > 0:43:02- We'll be back same time tomorrow. - Urgh. Bye-bye.
0:43:02 > 0:43:04LAUGHTER
0:43:04 > 0:43:07MUSIC: Don't Cry For Me Argentina by Julie Covington
0:43:11 > 0:43:16# Don't cry for me, Argentina
0:43:16 > 0:43:21# The truth is I never left you
0:43:21 > 0:43:27# All through my wild days my mad existence
0:43:27 > 0:43:33# I kept my promise don't keep your distance... #