0:00:02 > 0:00:05BBC Four collections - specially chosen programmes
0:00:05 > 0:00:06from the BBC archive.
0:00:06 > 0:00:10For this collection, Max Hastings has selected interviews
0:00:10 > 0:00:11with Great War veterans
0:00:11 > 0:00:13filmed in the 1960s.
0:00:13 > 0:00:17More programmes on this theme and other BBC Four collections
0:00:17 > 0:00:19are available on BBC iPlayer.
0:00:50 > 0:00:56This was the first time I'd actually commandeda tank in action
0:00:56 > 0:00:57and I was petrified.
0:00:57 > 0:01:01I hoped the whole way up that I shouldsprain my ankle,
0:01:01 > 0:01:03or something like that,
0:01:03 > 0:01:07that we should never get there,or the whole thing would be called off.
0:01:07 > 0:01:13We had no luck at all, andthe ghastly hour got nearer and nearer.
0:01:13 > 0:01:18And the worst moment of all was when we started up our engines,
0:01:18 > 0:01:22and they would backfire, and you got a sheet of flame out of the exhaust.
0:01:22 > 0:01:24Everybody calling each other a bloody fool
0:01:25 > 0:01:27and waiting to know what was going to happen.
0:01:27 > 0:01:32However, nothing did happen and we climbed into the tank.
0:01:32 > 0:01:36The gearsmen got into their places and then the side gunners got in.
0:01:36 > 0:01:41And then the driver gets in and then the officer gets in through the top,
0:01:41 > 0:01:43and we started off.
0:01:43 > 0:01:50We had to close down, because we were within very comfortable machine-gunrange
0:01:51 > 0:01:54and once we were shut down we were completely isolated from the world.
0:01:54 > 0:01:56We had no means of communication at all.
0:01:56 > 0:01:59The thing got hotter and hotter and hotter.
0:01:59 > 0:02:04The only ventilation was concerned with the engine and not with the crew.
0:02:04 > 0:02:10You could only see forward througha little slit in the front visor.
0:02:10 > 0:02:16And if you wanted to see out the side youlooked through steel periscopes,
0:02:16 > 0:02:21which gave youa sort of translucent outside light, all distorted.
0:02:21 > 0:02:26And the tank inside itself wassteeped in Stygian gloom.
0:02:26 > 0:02:28It was all gloomy, hot and steamy.
0:02:28 > 0:02:31My particular tank never went until the engine had boiled.
0:02:31 > 0:02:35And once it had boiled, you kept it boiling, and it was jolly good.
0:02:35 > 0:02:37It went on quite well after that.
0:02:37 > 0:02:41The noise inside was such that you couldhear nothing outside at all,
0:02:42 > 0:02:46and people made littlegestures to you, rude or otherwise.
0:02:46 > 0:02:49That was all you could do- your sole means of communicating.
0:02:49 > 0:02:55When this barrage came down, you could distinguish that quite easily
0:02:55 > 0:03:00because any shell bursting within afew yardsof the tank
0:03:00 > 0:03:03got tremendous back pressure,
0:03:03 > 0:03:05and you felt it all the way through.
0:03:05 > 0:03:10In fact, a shell bursting between the horns of the tank seemed to lift it up in the air.
0:03:10 > 0:03:12And then the machine guns started.
0:03:12 > 0:03:16And they were quite easy to discern,
0:03:16 > 0:03:20because they were just like peas on a tin can, rattling away.
0:03:26 > 0:03:30Well,we moved up to our tanks in the lying-up area,
0:03:30 > 0:03:34by St Julien farmhouse in the middle of the night.
0:03:34 > 0:03:38And then we had a brew-up and unsheeted,
0:03:38 > 0:03:40did our pre-battle maintenance
0:03:40 > 0:03:42and loaded our guns
0:03:42 > 0:03:46and saw that everything was shipshape.
0:03:46 > 0:03:49And then took our camouflage nets off.
0:03:49 > 0:03:55And then we warmed our engines up and then we started to get ready to go off,
0:03:55 > 0:03:57hoping nothing was going to happen.
0:03:58 > 0:03:59Nothing did happen.
0:03:59 > 0:04:03It was a dead quiet night, there washardly any machine gun fire, no shelling at all,
0:04:03 > 0:04:11and it gradually got light, and we moved off at six o'clock for a 6:15 zero.
0:04:11 > 0:04:13There were ten tanks there.
0:04:13 > 0:04:19Only one failed to start,and he never lived it down, of course.
0:04:19 > 0:04:21But poor chap, it wasn't his fault, it was the engine.
0:04:21 > 0:04:25We went off line ahead. My own tank was the fourth.
0:04:25 > 0:04:29Three ahead and six behind, if my arithmetic's right.
0:04:30 > 0:04:33We moved off at 100-yards intervals.
0:04:33 > 0:04:38It then turned into a really cold, beastly drizzle,
0:04:38 > 0:04:44which made these pave setts frightfully slippery. They were like ice.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47And as our tracks very nearly spannedthe causeway,
0:04:47 > 0:04:49we had to go very, very, very carefully.
0:04:49 > 0:04:55I was so windy that we went too cautiously and we lost the three in front.
0:04:55 > 0:05:01And we went jogging along and after a bitwe came round a corner
0:05:01 > 0:05:03and there I saw two of them stuck.
0:05:03 > 0:05:07There was an enormous tree across the road.
0:05:07 > 0:05:10The Germans had taken a habit of blowing up the trees.
0:05:10 > 0:05:14Whether it was shellfire or the Germans, Idon't know, but it was some tree.
0:05:14 > 0:05:18And the only way to take the treewas to climb over it.
0:05:18 > 0:05:24The first tank had got away with it, and he'd gone on ahead.
0:05:24 > 0:05:28The second tank had slid off, possibly on account of the mud
0:05:28 > 0:05:31left on the tracks of the first tank,
0:05:31 > 0:05:35and he wassideways off the pave, quite out of action.
0:05:35 > 0:05:37The second one was stuck half across.
0:05:37 > 0:05:41And that presented a problem because he was obstructingthe road
0:05:41 > 0:05:42and he couldn't get on.
0:05:42 > 0:05:44And we got out and had a talk.
0:05:44 > 0:05:48It was still perfectly quiet. No shelling, no noise at all.
0:05:48 > 0:05:51And he agreed to really sacrifice himself.
0:05:51 > 0:05:56He drove his tank off into the mud, and that cleared the road for me.
0:05:56 > 0:05:58And I had a first-class driver
0:05:58 > 0:06:02and, with consummate skill, he got over the log.
0:06:02 > 0:06:08He drove up it, and then swung slightly right so that he was directly at right angles
0:06:08 > 0:06:11to it, and dropped down with a frightful crash
0:06:11 > 0:06:14ontothe pave at the other side, and we were off.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17That delayed us about 20 minutes.
0:06:17 > 0:06:21And we'd only got about another tenminutes along the road
0:06:21 > 0:06:23when I thought the world had come to an end.
0:06:23 > 0:06:26We ran straight into the counter barrage of the Bosch.
0:06:26 > 0:06:29He'd evidently seen our leading tank,
0:06:29 > 0:06:32which was some way ahead, and we caught it.
0:06:32 > 0:06:35I've never beenso frightened in my life. I think everybody was.
0:06:35 > 0:06:41There were blues and reds and yellows, all the pyrotechnic colours in the world.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44And then there was the most almighty crash
0:06:44 > 0:06:50and a sheet of flame came up on the starboard side and we'd had a direct hit.
0:06:51 > 0:06:53My driver... It was his side.
0:06:53 > 0:06:59He got out his extinguisher and he put the fireout, and then we had a look around,
0:06:59 > 0:07:02and of course the engine wascompletely broken up,
0:07:02 > 0:07:06and we were immobile in the middle of the road.
0:07:06 > 0:07:08The shelling was still going on.
0:07:08 > 0:07:09It was still, if anything, more intense
0:07:09 > 0:07:11than if it had been machine guns.
0:07:11 > 0:07:13Well, we had a drill then,
0:07:13 > 0:07:16you evacuate a tank just like you evacuate an aeroplane.
0:07:16 > 0:07:19I had three men wounded.
0:07:19 > 0:07:22One had got his leg blown off and he died later on that night.
0:07:22 > 0:07:28And we got the whole lot out withthe tank between us and the Germans,
0:07:28 > 0:07:31and then sat down to take stock.
0:07:31 > 0:07:32We didn't know what to do exactly.
0:07:32 > 0:07:38And then looming out of this murk came the tank behind me,
0:07:38 > 0:07:42commanded by a great friend of mine.
0:07:42 > 0:07:45I stopped him, we crawled up and told him what had happened.
0:07:45 > 0:07:47He didn't stand a hope of getting on.
0:07:47 > 0:07:50If he'd gone off the pave he would have stuck too.
0:07:50 > 0:07:54No communication at all. One could only shout to each other.
0:07:54 > 0:07:56And we decided the best thing to do was to go back
0:07:56 > 0:07:59and warn the others to avoida complete debacle.
0:08:01 > 0:08:06I got my crew inside the second tank. Therewere 16 of us in the tank then,
0:08:06 > 0:08:10and the driver of that tank wasagain a very skilful man.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13He eased that tankround on that ten-foot causeway.
0:08:13 > 0:08:15It was a most extraordinary feat.
0:08:15 > 0:08:17Got it round, and away we went back.
0:08:17 > 0:08:21We'd gone on for a few hundred yards,
0:08:21 > 0:08:24and then we saw why there wasno other tank coming.
0:08:24 > 0:08:26The whole lot was stuck on this tree trunk.
0:08:26 > 0:08:29They'd all gone round, they were all ditched.
0:08:29 > 0:08:33One had had a direct hit, and there was the company.
0:08:33 > 0:08:36Well, then we had to make up our mind whatwe were going to do.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39We put on the unditching beam,
0:08:39 > 0:08:42and that has rather short chains to the tracks,
0:08:42 > 0:08:45so if you want to turn round, youhavetocarry out
0:08:45 > 0:08:47a very wide sweep indeed,
0:08:47 > 0:08:54because the variation in the tracksteering is so slight.
0:08:54 > 0:08:55Well, of course, we got stuck.
0:08:56 > 0:09:00And the only thing to do then was to call it a day.
0:09:00 > 0:09:03And I got my crew out, we walked back
0:09:03 > 0:09:07and found a duckboard track to a dressing station.
0:09:07 > 0:09:12We were very lucky in finding a very gallant team of RAMC stretcher bearers,
0:09:12 > 0:09:13who had no right to be up there at all.
0:09:13 > 0:09:17They took on this poor chap with the leg off and took charge of him,
0:09:17 > 0:09:21and we went back and evacuated our wounded
0:09:21 > 0:09:23and then went back to the lying-up area,
0:09:23 > 0:09:26whereI expected to get an almighty rocket from
0:09:26 > 0:09:28my company commander,instead of which he wasdelightedto see me,
0:09:28 > 0:09:29thought we'd all been written off.
0:09:29 > 0:09:32So we turned out heroes in the end.
0:09:32 > 0:09:34The interesting thing about the front tank,
0:09:34 > 0:09:36it had only got round the corner from me
0:09:36 > 0:09:40when it was also hit and broke a track, and they had to evacuate too.
0:09:40 > 0:09:45So that meant that ten tanks were written off, well, nine written off.
0:09:45 > 0:09:49None were recovered. And nothing was achieved at all.
0:09:49 > 0:09:52And that was the last tankattack in the Passchendaele battle.
0:10:00 > 0:10:04After the conclusion of the Passchendaeledebacle,
0:10:04 > 0:10:07as far as tanks were concerned,
0:10:07 > 0:10:09there was a serious consideration
0:10:09 > 0:10:12whether they should wash them out altogether
0:10:12 > 0:10:15or whether they could use them in some other shape or form.
0:10:15 > 0:10:23And the tank people put up a plea to have onebig attack on good going, open terrain,
0:10:23 > 0:10:25with all the tanks they'd got.
0:10:25 > 0:10:27And, after a good deal of argument,
0:10:27 > 0:10:30that wasaccepted andwe all moved south,
0:10:30 > 0:10:33where we concentrated and refitted
0:10:33 > 0:10:37and got equipped with things called fascines.
0:10:38 > 0:10:42The attack was to bemade in the Cambrai area,
0:10:42 > 0:10:46and the German line there was known as the Hindenburg line,
0:10:46 > 0:10:47was over 12 feet deep.
0:10:47 > 0:10:51And everyone was frightened that thetank tails would slip
0:10:51 > 0:10:53when they were coming out and you'd get ditched.
0:10:53 > 0:10:55So we fitted ourselves with a fascine,
0:10:55 > 0:10:57whichweighed a ton and a half, carried them on
0:10:57 > 0:11:00the top of the tanks, and the plan was to dropthem in the trench
0:11:00 > 0:11:02to stop your tail dropping.
0:11:02 > 0:11:03Well, we got that fixed up
0:11:03 > 0:11:07and then we movedup to a place called Havrincourt wood,
0:11:07 > 0:11:11which was within 2,000yards of the German front line.
0:11:11 > 0:11:15The move was made at night, and dead slow.
0:11:15 > 0:11:17We went a mile an hour.
0:11:17 > 0:11:21Everything seemed to be goingwell till some silly arse
0:11:21 > 0:11:24got his valise on top of the tank, on the exhaust pipe, and it caught fire.
0:11:24 > 0:11:26Of course the whole column stopped,
0:11:26 > 0:11:28there was almost a court martial on the spot.
0:11:28 > 0:11:32However, we went on. Nobody saw it. The Germans didn't.
0:11:32 > 0:11:36And we crept in under cover, camouflaged ourselves,
0:11:36 > 0:11:41and observed the strictest possible precautions about secrecy.
0:11:41 > 0:11:43There were no fires by day or night.
0:11:45 > 0:11:49We brewed up inside the tanks, which was quite prohibitive.
0:11:49 > 0:11:53And the troops were really more uncomfortable than the officers,
0:11:53 > 0:11:56because the officers did get out in smallbatches
0:11:56 > 0:11:57to make a reconnaissance.
0:11:57 > 0:12:00There, for the first time in our lives,
0:12:00 > 0:12:03we saw a battlefield which was completely unscarred.
0:12:03 > 0:12:06Everybody pointed out where theenemy were.
0:12:06 > 0:12:12You could see damn all, nothing, except an enormous belt, a great big black mass,
0:12:12 > 0:12:14which was heavy barbed wire.
0:12:14 > 0:12:17The German trenches were about 1,000yards away,
0:12:17 > 0:12:20and by 5:30 we werealllying up
0:12:20 > 0:12:25in the front trenches with our gear, ready to go, consumed with anxiety,
0:12:25 > 0:12:26because the rum and soup
0:12:26 > 0:12:29that a fat sergeant called Tootsie Hands had promised
0:12:29 > 0:12:31hadn't arrived.
0:12:31 > 0:12:34Thank God it came before we started, and then it was too hot to drink.
0:12:34 > 0:12:40We started off to come out at Havrincourt wood the night before the attack,
0:12:40 > 0:12:42crawling along very quietly,
0:12:42 > 0:12:46very carefully along taped lines which hadbeen put out beforehand.
0:12:46 > 0:12:50No sooner had we got clear of the wood, everybody sweating on the top line,
0:12:50 > 0:12:53the gunners came in - they made a filthy noise,
0:12:53 > 0:12:56jingling and jingling,and the horses making noises both ends.
0:12:56 > 0:13:01And it was altogether a matter of greatconcern for those of us
0:13:01 > 0:13:03who were going into battle.
0:13:03 > 0:13:05However, nothing happened.
0:13:05 > 0:13:09We got up onto our starting places, and the plan, very roughly,
0:13:09 > 0:13:11was to go forward in three lines
0:13:11 > 0:13:16and the 320 tankson the same frontage as Passchendaele.
0:13:16 > 0:13:21Zero was 6:15 and the first tanks weredue off at six o'clock.
0:13:21 > 0:13:24And we went off on time.
0:13:24 > 0:13:26It was really quite exciting,
0:13:26 > 0:13:30because we'd had an awful pasting up at Passchendaele.
0:13:30 > 0:13:32We knew there was no end result,
0:13:32 > 0:13:35whereas here it did seem somethingworthwhile going for.
0:13:35 > 0:13:39We got in, shut down our tanks, and away we went.
0:13:39 > 0:13:44We had rough compasses in the tanks and we got our course
0:13:44 > 0:13:47and we set course for the enemy line.
0:13:47 > 0:13:48The first thing that happened -
0:13:49 > 0:13:51it wasdead silent, there wasn't a word,
0:13:51 > 0:13:55until we got to the enemy wire, which was zero hour for the guns.
0:13:55 > 0:13:58And that again was first class, you know.
0:13:58 > 0:14:01The Crystal Palace had nothing in it at all.
0:14:01 > 0:14:03No answer from the Germans at all.
0:14:04 > 0:14:09For the first time in our lives, we saw the Hun being blown up all over the place.
0:14:09 > 0:14:11Bits of thing going everywhere. The troops were frightfully pleased.
0:14:12 > 0:14:13No machine gun fire.
0:14:13 > 0:14:16So we opened up our tanks, and then we got into this belt of wire.
0:14:16 > 0:14:22It was quite terrifying, because itwas about seven feet high, very, very thick wire,
0:14:22 > 0:14:25and it was over 120 yards deep in places.
0:14:25 > 0:14:29And, of course, if we'd have stopped in that, or got our tracks ripped off,
0:14:29 > 0:14:31then we should have been for it.
0:14:31 > 0:14:35Instead of that, the tanks made great swathes in the wire
0:14:35 > 0:14:40and the Jocks who were playing with us, they came through the gaps we'd made.
0:14:40 > 0:14:46And we all emerged the other side into a deepvalley known as the Grand Ravine.
0:14:46 > 0:14:52Before we got there we had to cross this Hindenburg line,
0:14:52 > 0:14:55and the tanksworked in groups of three.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58The first tank dropped his fascine in.
0:14:58 > 0:15:01The two other tanks crossed in over it.
0:15:01 > 0:15:03And then, when it came to the second line,
0:15:03 > 0:15:07the second dropped his and three crossed over and then left one in reserve.
0:15:07 > 0:15:12And we all arrived, every tank, as far as I could see, at the Grand Ravine.
0:15:12 > 0:15:16There was the most extraordinary sight. The Germans had just finished breakfast.
0:15:16 > 0:15:19They were completely taken by surprise.
0:15:19 > 0:15:20They were running about
0:15:20 > 0:15:22with their hands up, hands down, hands everywhere,
0:15:22 > 0:15:25and we collected them and sent them back.
0:15:26 > 0:15:31The Jocks took on the prisoners, because we couldn't do it.
0:15:31 > 0:15:36And we had a wait there of 15 minutes toenable the barrage to lift
0:15:36 > 0:15:38and people to sort themselves out,
0:15:39 > 0:15:44and we had anticipated agreat deal of trouble, which never materialised.
0:15:44 > 0:15:48So we had this pause, which was unfortunate in the after event.
0:15:48 > 0:15:53My crew got out for a smoke and to have a look round
0:15:53 > 0:15:57and when the time came to go on I foundI had no crew at all.
0:15:57 > 0:16:00They were all looting. However, we got them back.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03I had two men from Scotland in the crew.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06They came back with pistols, binoculars and all sorts of things.
0:16:06 > 0:16:10I was furious with rage and they presented the best pair to me and off we went again.
0:16:10 > 0:16:13And we got pulled out of the Grand Ravine
0:16:13 > 0:16:18and the accompanying Jocks were getting a bit tired by this time,
0:16:18 > 0:16:20because we'd come quite a long way,
0:16:20 > 0:16:24and we went upthe slope towards a place called Flesquieres.
0:16:24 > 0:16:29And here, the thing wasn't quite such a cakewalk.
0:16:29 > 0:16:33We met batches of Germans whowere firing machine guns.
0:16:33 > 0:16:37We accounted for those, but they did hold upthe accompanying infantrymen.
0:16:37 > 0:16:44Then I noticed, on the right,that one or two tanks were going up in flames.
0:16:44 > 0:16:47When the one on my immediate right went up,
0:16:47 > 0:16:50Ithought the time had come to steer a little left.
0:16:50 > 0:16:52And we found afterwards
0:16:52 > 0:16:56that I'd run into the battery manned by the German major
0:16:56 > 0:17:01who shot out seven of our British tanks withone other crew to help him.
0:17:01 > 0:17:04He was mentioned in Haig's book.
0:17:04 > 0:17:09We then went on further up the top and cameto the Flesquieres ridge
0:17:09 > 0:17:11with its thick belt of trees,
0:17:11 > 0:17:14whichwere getting ratherdifficult to get through.
0:17:14 > 0:17:16And here we met the most intense machine gun fire.
0:17:18 > 0:17:22It was so hot, one had tocompletely close down,
0:17:22 > 0:17:25and we had no infantry accompanying us then.
0:17:25 > 0:17:29They'd fallen back on account of exhaustion
0:17:29 > 0:17:34and there were insufficient reserves to come through.
0:17:34 > 0:17:38So we were just tanks prowling around in thewood,
0:17:38 > 0:17:40which didn't do any good at all.
0:17:40 > 0:17:45Eventually I had three men wounded, and then I was wounded myself,
0:17:45 > 0:17:47and then we got short of petrol,
0:17:47 > 0:17:54so we decided to goback to our rallying point to refuel and refill.
0:17:54 > 0:17:58Halfway back, I ran into thecommandingofficer
0:17:58 > 0:18:00and I thought I should get a rocket,
0:18:00 > 0:18:05and he looked at my tank and told me we'd better go back to the lying-up place,
0:18:05 > 0:18:08and we got to a village called Trescault,
0:18:08 > 0:18:11and there I ran into an Indian cavalry brigade.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14It was the most extraordinary sight,
0:18:14 > 0:18:17the first time I've ever seen a horsedcavalry brigade
0:18:17 > 0:18:18ready for action.
0:18:18 > 0:18:22And they were waiting for orders which,unfortunately, they never got.
0:18:22 > 0:18:25And I found out what had happened to the tank.
0:18:25 > 0:18:29The front visor was cut right through by machine gun fire.
0:18:29 > 0:18:31The rails were both hanging down -
0:18:31 > 0:18:34they'd been cut through by machine gun fire.
0:18:34 > 0:18:37The front Lewis gun, the barrelitself wasbent,
0:18:37 > 0:18:40so intense had the machine gun fire been.
0:18:41 > 0:18:43And the louvres, which are on thesideof the tank
0:18:43 > 0:18:44to protect the engines,
0:18:44 > 0:18:50where you get the...ventilation from, they were cut to ribbons.
0:18:50 > 0:18:54And so I left my tank then to go to hospital and the tank went to hospital too.
0:18:54 > 0:18:57And that was the end of Cambrai.
0:18:57 > 0:18:58And...cut.