0:00:02 > 0:00:04BBC Four Collections -
0:00:04 > 0:00:06specially chosen programmes from the BBC archive.
0:00:06 > 0:00:10For this collection, Max Hastings has selected interviews
0:00:10 > 0:00:14with Great War veterans, filmed in the 1960s.
0:00:14 > 0:00:17More programmes on this theme and other BBC Four Collections
0:00:17 > 0:00:19are available on BBC iPlayer.
0:00:52 > 0:00:57In the little town of Vittel, at the foot of the Ardennes Mountains...
0:00:58 > 0:01:01..the Fifth Army headquarters, commanded by General Lanrezac...
0:01:03 > 0:01:05..compromising... Comprising an army
0:01:05 > 0:01:08of at least a quarter of a million men,
0:01:08 > 0:01:11had taken up their headquarters.
0:01:13 > 0:01:171A couple of days later, Sir John French...
0:01:18 > 0:01:24..commander-in-chief of the BEF - British Expeditionary Force -
0:01:24 > 0:01:27came to call.
0:01:27 > 0:01:29And I well remember...
0:01:30 > 0:01:33..the... His arrival with his staff.
0:01:35 > 0:01:38I was waiting with a lot of other junior officers,
0:01:38 > 0:01:39I was only a subaltern then...
0:01:41 > 0:01:44And two large cars drove up.
0:01:45 > 0:01:47And I was very much impressed.
0:01:49 > 0:01:55I... I wasn't used to meeting these very senior people.
0:01:55 > 0:01:59However I needn't have worried, they paid not the least attention to me
0:01:59 > 0:02:01and I sat there gossiping with other...
0:02:03 > 0:02:05..junior French officers...
0:02:06 > 0:02:11..and Sir John French, whom I had met previously, walked up...
0:02:11 > 0:02:19He was a shortish man, very burly with a very determined step.
0:02:19 > 0:02:22He always made me think of a wild boar, rather.
0:02:25 > 0:02:27And his...
0:02:30 > 0:02:35He stuck out his chin very much, he had a quite drooping moustache.
0:02:37 > 0:02:42And he gave the impression of a...
0:02:42 > 0:02:44being very much a soldier, in fact...
0:02:45 > 0:02:50..he had commanded with great brilliancy...
0:02:50 > 0:02:53a division of cavalry in the South African War.
0:02:54 > 0:02:59Well, he came out followed by a number of staff officers,
0:02:59 > 0:03:01English staff officers.
0:03:02 > 0:03:07And out of whom I picked Sir Henry Wilson...
0:03:08 > 0:03:12A curious, very tall man
0:03:13 > 0:03:16who boasted he was the ugliest man in the British Army.
0:03:18 > 0:03:20I had no difficulty in believing that.
0:03:21 > 0:03:22In fact...
0:03:24 > 0:03:26..a letter was once delivered to him in London,
0:03:26 > 0:03:28"To the ugliest officer in the British Army."
0:03:28 > 0:03:31It came straight to him, I think. War Office.
0:03:33 > 0:03:40And they bustled out of their cars towards the building
0:03:40 > 0:03:45where General Lanrezac had his headquarters
0:03:45 > 0:03:49and the French General, Lanrezac, came down the steps,
0:03:49 > 0:03:53long flight of steps, I remember, to meet him.
0:03:53 > 0:03:56Now, General Lanrezac was the exact opposite of French in many ways.
0:03:56 > 0:04:01A big, soft man, dark.
0:04:01 > 0:04:03A Creole...
0:04:04 > 0:04:09He had hanging cheeks,
0:04:09 > 0:04:11protruding eyes...
0:04:13 > 0:04:16He looked as if he could have done with
0:04:16 > 0:04:18a lot more exercise than he evidently took.
0:04:20 > 0:04:26However, he came down, advanced politely to Sir John
0:04:26 > 0:04:33and showed him the way up the steps, leading to his own quarters.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36We could see quite distinctly from where we were
0:04:36 > 0:04:42that the two commanders-in-chief had gone in together and alone
0:04:42 > 0:04:44into Lanrezac's own study.
0:04:46 > 0:04:51And as we looked, we wondered how on earth these two could possibly
0:04:51 > 0:04:55communicate with each other because we were quite aware of the fact
0:04:55 > 0:04:59that Lanrezac spoke no English and French...
0:04:59 > 0:05:01spoke very, very poor French.
0:05:01 > 0:05:06In fact, less French than even I thought he...knew.
0:05:06 > 0:05:09They stayed in there quite a bit.
0:05:09 > 0:05:13And what they could have been doing for 20 minutes, I don't know.
0:05:14 > 0:05:18Presently, they emerged into an outer room,
0:05:18 > 0:05:21where there were a number of officers
0:05:21 > 0:05:25and you had the impression of a very...
0:05:28 > 0:05:30..desultory conversation.
0:05:33 > 0:05:38And there was a big map of the whole front,
0:05:38 > 0:05:44parts of Belgium where we were, where the armies were deploying...
0:05:45 > 0:05:49And news had just come in that the German armies
0:05:49 > 0:05:55were making for a place on the Meuse
0:05:55 > 0:05:59called Huy - H-U-Y.
0:05:59 > 0:06:03It's a very difficult word to pronounce in English.
0:06:04 > 0:06:10And French started off gallantly in French...
0:06:12 > 0:06:14..turning to Lanrezac and said...
0:06:16 > 0:06:18"What do you think?" -
0:06:18 > 0:06:24"Qu'est-ce que vous croyez que les Allemands vont faire a..."
0:06:24 > 0:06:26"What do you think the Germans are going to do at...?"
0:06:26 > 0:06:29and then he stuck H-U-Y.
0:06:30 > 0:06:34And he just couldn't pronounce "Huy."
0:06:34 > 0:06:37So, after a moment's hesitation, he said triumphantly,
0:06:37 > 0:06:40"Hoy, what are the Germans going to do at Hoy?"
0:06:41 > 0:06:44And French said, "What's he saying, what's he saying?"
0:06:45 > 0:06:47And then, very rudely...
0:06:48 > 0:06:52..Lanrezac turned to somebody and said,
0:06:52 > 0:06:56"Tell the Field Marshal the Germans have come to the Meuse to fish."
0:06:57 > 0:07:03Well, this was very rude, and, as a matter of fact,
0:07:03 > 0:07:08it was a most unfortunate instance
0:07:08 > 0:07:11because it was presented and remembered...
0:07:12 > 0:07:16..and it was the beginning of an extremely bad relationship
0:07:16 > 0:07:18between the two men.
0:07:20 > 0:07:26Lanrezac was obviously very sulky when he saw French off, and...
0:07:27 > 0:07:29..I could see that the...
0:07:29 > 0:07:32Field Marshal was anything but pleased.
0:07:32 > 0:07:35However, he hopped into his car, they all disappeared.
0:07:36 > 0:07:38DIRECTOR: And cut.
0:07:39 > 0:07:43I was Liaison Officer with General Lanrezac.
0:07:43 > 0:07:46His army had about 350,000 men.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49They were by ways of advancing and it was
0:07:49 > 0:07:54because they were advancing into Belgium, the BEF was also advancing.
0:07:54 > 0:07:56Now, I had ascertained...
0:07:58 > 0:08:03..that General Lanrezac had no intention whatever of advancing...
0:08:06 > 0:08:07..because of the orders he'd given.
0:08:09 > 0:08:11And also because I had been to see myself
0:08:11 > 0:08:13what the state of his army was.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18And most of his troops were running away.
0:08:21 > 0:08:23Now, it's quite obvious that an army that's running away
0:08:23 > 0:08:26isn't in a very good position to advance
0:08:26 > 0:08:30and I knew that the British Army was absolutely relying on this advance
0:08:30 > 0:08:32to complete its own movement.
0:08:34 > 0:08:39And the position of the British Army was extremely dangerous
0:08:40 > 0:08:43because we believed that...
0:08:44 > 0:08:50..a couple of German Army corps were moving, quite unopposed,
0:08:50 > 0:08:53round the flank of the BEF,
0:08:53 > 0:08:57which was on the extreme left of the whole Allied line.
0:09:01 > 0:09:02Well, I...
0:09:03 > 0:09:05..as a young officer...
0:09:07 > 0:09:11..had come to tell, on my own responsibility...
0:09:11 > 0:09:13Come to tell Sir John French...
0:09:15 > 0:09:19..that he couldn't rely on the...
0:09:21 > 0:09:22..French advance.
0:09:24 > 0:09:28And indeed, that if he continued advancing as he was planning to do...
0:09:30 > 0:09:34..it was the destruction of the whole of the British Army.
0:09:36 > 0:09:42We were walking straight into the mouth of a trap, enormous trap.
0:09:46 > 0:09:48I'd walked into the house accompanied by...
0:09:49 > 0:09:52..Colonel McDonogh, who was the head of our intelligence,
0:09:52 > 0:09:54a magnificent soldier...
0:09:55 > 0:10:00..and Sir John French and his Chief of Staff, General Murray,
0:10:00 > 0:10:03had come out of the dining room...
0:10:04 > 0:10:08..to...listen to my news.
0:10:10 > 0:10:14I told Sir John French what I'd seen, what I observed...
0:10:16 > 0:10:19And as I was speaking...
0:10:21 > 0:10:26..I was seized, inwardly, with this awful sense of panic
0:10:26 > 0:10:31because what I had said was entirely my own responsibility.
0:10:33 > 0:10:38I had no plans, I had no orders, I had no instructions.
0:10:38 > 0:10:42I hadn't been told anything whatsoever by General Lanrezac.
0:10:42 > 0:10:45All this was based on my personal observation.
0:10:47 > 0:10:51On the fact that I'd been to the different parts of the front...
0:10:52 > 0:10:56..got in amongst the fighting troops and seen that,
0:10:56 > 0:11:00far from advancing as they were planned to do,
0:11:00 > 0:11:02the French army was in retreat.
0:11:04 > 0:11:09And then we were... Colonel MacDonogh and I were dismissed and...
0:11:09 > 0:11:12leaving French and Murray together.
0:11:12 > 0:11:15And we moved into the dining room,
0:11:15 > 0:11:20where the Chiefs of Staff of the corps...
0:11:21 > 0:11:25..and some other important people were just finishing dinner.
0:11:25 > 0:11:29They were drinking their coffee and exchanging...
0:11:31 > 0:11:35..plans and ideas about the offensive that was to take place next morning.
0:11:38 > 0:11:44And it was really a dreadful sensation.
0:11:44 > 0:11:47There was Colonel McDonogh and I sitting on a...
0:11:49 > 0:11:50..sort of divan...
0:11:52 > 0:11:55..listening to these people making plans
0:11:55 > 0:11:57about an engagement for battle,
0:11:57 > 0:12:01for an advance next day, which we knew couldn't take place.
0:12:03 > 0:12:04And...
0:12:07 > 0:12:09..sitting on that couch...
0:12:11 > 0:12:12..I had awful visions...
0:12:14 > 0:12:18..of Nolan, Captain Nolan...
0:12:20 > 0:12:27..who gave the wrong instructions to Lord Cardigan,
0:12:27 > 0:12:30the commander of the Light Brigade at Balaclava...
0:12:32 > 0:12:37And...it really was...
0:12:37 > 0:12:38an awful...
0:12:39 > 0:12:46I was overwhelmed by the sense of responsibility that I, a subaltern...
0:12:47 > 0:12:48..was...
0:12:50 > 0:12:55..the bearer of such really overwhelming responsibility.
0:12:57 > 0:12:59Well, we sat there for quite a long time
0:12:59 > 0:13:03and then suddenly, General Murray appeared, framed in the doorway,
0:13:04 > 0:13:08and called to all these high-ranking officers down the table...
0:13:09 > 0:13:13"Look here, come in and see the Commander-in-Chief now.
0:13:14 > 0:13:18"But...remember, no questions.
0:13:20 > 0:13:24"A decision's been taken, there's going to be no advance tomorrow,
0:13:24 > 0:13:26"you are going to be given orders to retire."
0:13:29 > 0:13:31DIRECTOR: Cut.
0:13:31 > 0:13:36It was at St Quentin that the second-to-last meeting
0:13:36 > 0:13:41between Sir John French and General Lanrezac took place.
0:13:44 > 0:13:48The atmosphere of defeat hung heavily over the town.
0:13:50 > 0:13:51Small bodies of troops...
0:13:53 > 0:13:55..were wandering about rather aimlessly...
0:13:57 > 0:13:59..evidently not knowing where to go or what to do.
0:14:01 > 0:14:04And the meeting took place...
0:14:04 > 0:14:10in a particularly horrible house, decorated in neo-Pompeiian style...
0:14:11 > 0:14:13..and for some reason, the...
0:14:14 > 0:14:18Perhaps the inhabitants had...fled, the...
0:14:19 > 0:14:21..shutters were closed and it was quite dark.
0:14:26 > 0:14:31Furthermore, what made things...worse...
0:14:32 > 0:14:35..obviously Sir John French was in an extremely bad temper.
0:14:37 > 0:14:41Lanrezac...was late.
0:14:43 > 0:14:45And one of his officers had been...
0:14:45 > 0:14:48Started explaining the position of the Army...
0:14:49 > 0:14:55..whilst General Joffre stood aside saying not a word.
0:14:57 > 0:15:03Then Joffre began to explain the purport of an order -
0:15:04 > 0:15:06extremely important - he'd issued.
0:15:08 > 0:15:12Whilst he was doing so, in walked Lanrezac, bustling in...
0:15:14 > 0:15:17..also obviously in an extremely bad temper.
0:15:19 > 0:15:26Then Joffre went on, explained this order of his,
0:15:26 > 0:15:29when Sir John French said...
0:15:29 > 0:15:31"What's...?" Of course, this was being interpreted
0:15:31 > 0:15:33cos they couldn't speak each other's language.
0:15:35 > 0:15:38"What about this order? I haven't seen an order."
0:15:40 > 0:15:44Whereupon General Wilson, the Sub-Chief of Staff,
0:15:44 > 0:15:48explained, rather awkwardly, I thought...
0:15:49 > 0:15:52..that some order had been received during the night...
0:15:53 > 0:15:56..but it hadn't been dealt with yet.
0:15:57 > 0:16:00I got the impression it hadn't been translated.
0:16:00 > 0:16:04And this put General Joffre completely off his chip.
0:16:04 > 0:16:08The idea that there was he, with these immense responsibilities,
0:16:08 > 0:16:10in charge of all these armies,
0:16:10 > 0:16:13having come all this way to see these two generals,
0:16:13 > 0:16:16to find that they didn't... Hadn't even read his orders.
0:16:17 > 0:16:23And he seemed overwhelmed... with discouragement.
0:16:23 > 0:16:28It was the only time I've ever known that he seemed to lose heart himself,
0:16:28 > 0:16:29to be completely deflated.
0:16:31 > 0:16:36And from that time on, the conference -
0:16:36 > 0:16:37to all intents and purposes -
0:16:37 > 0:16:42ceased to have any... the least value or importance.
0:16:43 > 0:16:50It became quite obvious that nobody realised...
0:16:53 > 0:16:56..appreciated what the point of view of the other was.
0:16:58 > 0:17:02Both, quite obviously, I knew quite well...
0:17:03 > 0:17:06..felt he'd been let down by the other.
0:17:07 > 0:17:11The Frenchman full of prejudice against the English anyhow,
0:17:12 > 0:17:15feeling that they were letting him down...
0:17:15 > 0:17:20Which was not justified at that moment.
0:17:20 > 0:17:25And the Englishman feeling that there was no...
0:17:25 > 0:17:28It was quite hopeless to try and deal with the French anywhere,
0:17:28 > 0:17:35and indeed, at that moment, the British were making plans
0:17:36 > 0:17:42to retire all the way to La Rochelle near Bordeaux and, evidently,
0:17:42 > 0:17:45intend to get off on ships...
0:17:45 > 0:17:48having given up all idea of cooperation with the French.
0:17:50 > 0:17:52The...
0:17:52 > 0:17:56Things were so bad that when the conference was over,
0:17:56 > 0:18:00I was told not to go back to the French.
0:18:00 > 0:18:04There was no point in my resuming my duties as Liaison Officer.
0:18:06 > 0:18:10That was pretty shattering, too.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14But again, I took upon myself,
0:18:14 > 0:18:18as I hadn't been given an actual positive order
0:18:18 > 0:18:21to give up my job, I did go back.
0:18:29 > 0:18:33I was taken to French GHQ...
0:18:35 > 0:18:39..on the day that England declared war.
0:18:39 > 0:18:41I hadn't the faintest idea where the place was,
0:18:41 > 0:18:45I'd been taken down in a racing car and, just because I was
0:18:45 > 0:18:52the first British officer to ride there, I was introduced to Joffre.
0:18:54 > 0:18:57I'd never even seen a picture of the man.
0:18:57 > 0:19:02I was very astonished to find a big, heavy...
0:19:03 > 0:19:10..bulky individual, walking up and down a little square...
0:19:11 > 0:19:13His hands behind his back...
0:19:14 > 0:19:19His kepi - his cap - tilted well forward...
0:19:20 > 0:19:26..to protect his eyes, evidently, because he was...had very light eyes.
0:19:26 > 0:19:28He was an albino, in fact.
0:19:29 > 0:19:34Pepper and salt hair. Pepper and salt walrus moustache.
0:19:36 > 0:19:42With a black tunic on, fitting extremely badly.
0:19:44 > 0:19:48Sloping outwards from the third or fourth button down.
0:19:49 > 0:19:55Also ill-fitting weird britches and abominable gaiters...
0:19:56 > 0:20:00..which as a cavalry officer I was very... I was very critical of.
0:20:00 > 0:20:03I watched him very carefully because here was a man,
0:20:03 > 0:20:07perhaps the most important man on the whole of the Allied side
0:20:07 > 0:20:10at that time, commanding enormous forces.
0:20:11 > 0:20:14Counting hundreds of thousands of men.
0:20:15 > 0:20:17A million or more, perhaps.
0:20:19 > 0:20:25He had an extraordinary habit of arriving at headquarters
0:20:25 > 0:20:29and getting out of his car with an enormous coat with a cape on it,
0:20:29 > 0:20:31even in very hot weather.
0:20:32 > 0:20:38The general commanding and the staff would come up to him,
0:20:38 > 0:20:42expecting to be told something, but he listened to them.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45And I've known cases where he walked straight into his car again
0:20:45 > 0:20:47without having uttered a single word.
0:20:48 > 0:20:49Always listening.
0:20:51 > 0:20:56But when he was aroused, he was absolutely terrific.
0:20:57 > 0:21:04And when the plan of the situation of the Marne began to develop,
0:21:04 > 0:21:05days before the Marne...
0:21:07 > 0:21:12..he really did take hold and was obviously the enforcer,
0:21:12 > 0:21:15it was a very, very strange thing to see
0:21:15 > 0:21:22a single man exercising his will over mass of about a million men
0:21:22 > 0:21:27with the fate of his country in the balance...
0:21:29 > 0:21:35..having to satisfy political requirements of his own government,
0:21:35 > 0:21:37the British Government...
0:21:38 > 0:21:42..having to face a catastrophic situation,
0:21:42 > 0:21:44and never, never getting rattled.
0:21:46 > 0:21:49He always was in bed by ten o'clock...
0:21:52 > 0:21:55He always ate enormously.
0:21:58 > 0:22:03Took a little walk with one of his favourite ADCs after meals.
0:22:05 > 0:22:07And that was about all.
0:22:07 > 0:22:09I actually saw him...
0:22:10 > 0:22:16..on the afternoon that he decided on the Battle of the Marne.
0:22:17 > 0:22:22And he was sitting astride a hard chair
0:22:22 > 0:22:25in a dusty little French school courtyard.
0:22:27 > 0:22:28I've forgotten the place.
0:22:30 > 0:22:32And he swayed backwards and forwards,
0:22:32 > 0:22:36and he was deciding what he was going to do.
0:22:36 > 0:22:40And it was an extraordinary thing, I've never seen...
0:22:40 > 0:22:44Very few people can have ever seen anybody
0:22:44 > 0:22:49with such a burden placed on his shoulders, with nobody to help...
0:22:51 > 0:22:56..just weighing the pros and cons of this movement
0:22:56 > 0:22:59and that movement, what orders to issue.
0:23:00 > 0:23:04It lasted quite a long time, perhaps a couple of hours.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08Then he got up, his decision was taken.
0:23:08 > 0:23:10And the orders went out that night.
0:23:12 > 0:23:14DIRECTOR: Cut.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20As the French officer
0:23:20 > 0:23:22I was with now
0:23:22 > 0:23:25drove into the courtyard
0:23:25 > 0:23:27of a chateau
0:23:28 > 0:23:32occupied by John French,
0:23:33 > 0:23:35we saw a French car
0:23:35 > 0:23:36driving in,
0:23:37 > 0:23:42out of which got General Joffre and his ADC.
0:23:44 > 0:23:47He got out ponderously as he always did,
0:23:47 > 0:23:53and although the weather was very hot, he had an enormous coat on.
0:23:55 > 0:23:58He walked straight in to the large room
0:23:58 > 0:24:01where Sir John French and his staff were waiting.
0:24:04 > 0:24:09Then, putting his cap down on the table,
0:24:12 > 0:24:16General Joffre, who I remember had his back to the window,
0:24:16 > 0:24:23because I remember the clear light on the Marne River.
0:24:25 > 0:24:28A shade of trees
0:24:28 > 0:24:32and this rather dark room
0:24:32 > 0:24:38that all these great soldiers trooped and went in
0:24:39 > 0:24:42and without any preamble at all,
0:24:42 > 0:24:45General Joffre unfolded his plans
0:24:45 > 0:24:47for the Battle of the Marne.
0:24:51 > 0:24:54It was extraordinarily impressive.
0:24:54 > 0:24:59Very clear, he outlined the movement of the troops,
0:24:59 > 0:25:03the army corps that had come from Alsace and the east,
0:25:03 > 0:25:08grouping in Paris for a thrust into the German flank.
0:25:09 > 0:25:17The certainty that the Germans had changed their line of advance,
0:25:17 > 0:25:22making the mistake which enabled Joffre to plan his thrust.
0:25:25 > 0:25:28And it all became extraordinarily alive
0:25:28 > 0:25:33and there was this man with his muted...voice,
0:25:33 > 0:25:35his albino voice.
0:25:39 > 0:25:42Slow...talking very slowly,
0:25:42 > 0:25:43never raising his voice once.
0:25:45 > 0:25:52And as we listened, we - I, certainly -
0:25:52 > 0:25:55saw the manoeuvre unfold.
0:25:58 > 0:26:03Saw in the future, saw what was going to happen. Next day.
0:26:08 > 0:26:09Then...
0:26:12 > 0:26:15Joffre turned to the fact
0:26:15 > 0:26:20of the essential role the British Army must play in this offensive.
0:26:21 > 0:26:26Without them, the manoeuvre was impossible.
0:26:26 > 0:26:29They faced the gap in the German line which,
0:26:30 > 0:26:33if it wasn't filled by us,
0:26:33 > 0:26:39would mean that the whole manoeuvre simply failed altogether.
0:26:41 > 0:26:44And he insisted, with great warmth
0:26:44 > 0:26:50and great fervour, on the essential part the British had to play.
0:26:50 > 0:26:53He praised them for what they'd done before,
0:26:53 > 0:26:55the staunchness of the troops,
0:26:55 > 0:27:00of the way they'd managed, under extremely difficult circumstances,
0:27:00 > 0:27:02to keep their cohesion.
0:27:03 > 0:27:06And then returning for perhaps the third time,
0:27:06 > 0:27:10to the importance the British had to play,
0:27:12 > 0:27:19an extraordinary look came over his face.
0:27:19 > 0:27:24This man who never hesitated,
0:27:24 > 0:27:28who certainly wasn't a sentimentalist,
0:27:29 > 0:27:32was turned into...
0:27:32 > 0:27:35he seemed to be praying,
0:27:35 > 0:27:39like somebody really begging for his life.
0:27:39 > 0:27:42But he was begging not for his life,
0:27:42 > 0:27:46he was begging for the life of France.
0:27:46 > 0:27:50Because, turning to Sir John French
0:27:50 > 0:27:53and holding both his own hands,
0:27:53 > 0:27:56he said,
0:27:56 > 0:28:01meaning that he hoped that French would comply with his wishes...
0:28:05 > 0:28:11he said "Monsieur le Marechal, c'est la France qui vous supplit."
0:28:11 > 0:28:18"Monsieur Marechal, it is France that is begging you, supplicating you."
0:28:20 > 0:28:23And it was so moving,
0:28:25 > 0:28:28as this man, he held both his hands.
0:28:29 > 0:28:36It was so moving that even Sir John French, irritated,
0:28:38 > 0:28:40worried as he was,
0:28:43 > 0:28:45having so short a time
0:28:45 > 0:28:49before deciding to withdraw his army altogether,
0:28:49 > 0:28:54had tears streaming down his face.
0:28:58 > 0:29:01And then,
0:29:01 > 0:29:04turning to an officer beside him,
0:29:04 > 0:29:08because once more he'd been caught in his difficulties
0:29:08 > 0:29:11with the language,
0:29:11 > 0:29:13he tried to say something in French.
0:29:14 > 0:29:20I never knew what he wanted to say, but what he said in English,
0:29:20 > 0:29:22to I think it was General Wilson,
0:29:22 > 0:29:24"Tell him
0:29:24 > 0:29:28"that all that men can do, our chaps will do tomorrow."
0:29:30 > 0:29:37And as the French officer and I sped back towards the headquarters
0:29:37 > 0:29:41of the armies we were going to, the 5th Army,
0:29:41 > 0:29:46I thought that one day, probably,
0:29:46 > 0:29:50some great painter would paint that scene.
0:29:50 > 0:29:53Which was a very, very great historical one.
0:30:00 > 0:30:04General Franchet D'Esperey was one of the most dynamic men
0:30:04 > 0:30:06I've ever come across in my life.
0:30:06 > 0:30:14He was square, he was all made up of so many straight lines.
0:30:15 > 0:30:20He had a straight top to his head, straight back to his head.
0:30:20 > 0:30:22His eyebrows were in a straight line.
0:30:22 > 0:30:28His moustache was parallel to his mouth, also in straight lines.
0:30:28 > 0:30:33He moved with incredible rapidity.
0:30:33 > 0:30:35Like a runner.
0:30:35 > 0:30:39His elbows keeping time with his knees.
0:30:39 > 0:30:43And it was very hard indeed to follow his movements.
0:30:43 > 0:30:45He took charge of the French army
0:30:45 > 0:30:51at a time of great demoralisation
0:30:51 > 0:30:54and he proved to me
0:30:54 > 0:30:59that only by the utmost severity
0:30:59 > 0:31:04can you really bring an army
0:31:04 > 0:31:07that is rather falling to pieces
0:31:07 > 0:31:10into a fighting unit again.
0:31:12 > 0:31:18And he used to shoot people very easily,
0:31:19 > 0:31:22on very little provocation, and less evidence.
0:31:22 > 0:31:26But it all kept things together.
0:31:26 > 0:31:30In those days traffic jams were very bad.
0:31:30 > 0:31:33Now, Franchet D'Esperey's method of dealing with jams
0:31:33 > 0:31:37when he was on the go was to open the window and shoot
0:31:37 > 0:31:42with his revolver at whoever was obstructing him in his approach.
0:31:42 > 0:31:43It answered very well.
0:31:45 > 0:31:48He, the first time I ever saw him,
0:31:48 > 0:31:51he was interviewing his staff.
0:31:51 > 0:31:55And I wasn't present when he interviewed French officers,
0:31:55 > 0:31:59I had the benefit of a little interview all to myself.
0:31:59 > 0:32:06But to these staff officers, he said, "Now look, I won't accept
0:32:06 > 0:32:10"the least dereliction of duty on the part of any officer in the line.
0:32:12 > 0:32:14"Anybody who fails will be shot.
0:32:16 > 0:32:20"Do you think that I'm likely to accept less high standards
0:32:20 > 0:32:23"on the part of staff officers who, after all,
0:32:23 > 0:32:26"aren't exposed to much danger?
0:32:26 > 0:32:29"Anybody who's stupid, anybody who fails,
0:32:29 > 0:32:31"anybody who's not punctual,
0:32:31 > 0:32:35"will be shot without further ado the same day."
0:32:44 > 0:32:49I was appointed head of the British Military Mission
0:32:49 > 0:32:55to the French government in Paris in 1917.
0:32:55 > 0:32:58April.
0:32:58 > 0:33:02Things were looking bad then.
0:33:02 > 0:33:06The French had had the most frightful losses.
0:33:07 > 0:33:10It was called the Chemin des Dames.
0:33:12 > 0:33:17In a couple of days, they'd lost about 90,000 men.
0:33:18 > 0:33:26That on top of enormous losses before, and the weariness,
0:33:26 > 0:33:32the hopelessness of the prospects of the war
0:33:32 > 0:33:37seemed utterly frightful.
0:33:40 > 0:33:45Furthermore, there were all these rumours
0:33:45 > 0:33:48of the Russian revolution...
0:33:48 > 0:33:53there were two Russian brigades in France that had mutinied
0:33:53 > 0:33:57and things weren't too well even in the civilian population.
0:34:00 > 0:34:04I saw, for instance, a strike.
0:34:05 > 0:34:11Of the girls in the big milliner shops,
0:34:11 > 0:34:14the dressmakers.
0:34:14 > 0:34:15They were called,
0:34:15 > 0:34:20rather pathetically I thought, "les petites mains", the small hands.
0:34:20 > 0:34:25And what they were striking for was one sou an hour more.
0:34:25 > 0:34:30A ha'penny. And a ha'penny wasn't worth a ha'penny then.
0:34:30 > 0:34:33And I saw these girls processing
0:34:33 > 0:34:36down some of the main thoroughfares
0:34:36 > 0:34:41and a lot of men on leave joined them.
0:34:41 > 0:34:44And that showed there was something.
0:34:44 > 0:34:47There was unrest, there was disquiet.
0:34:47 > 0:34:50We knew there'd been a flow of Communist literature
0:34:50 > 0:34:52sent to the troops
0:34:52 > 0:34:58and my main concern was how it affected us.
0:35:01 > 0:35:08And there was another incident that struck me very much.
0:35:08 > 0:35:10My office was in the great building of Invalides
0:35:10 > 0:35:13where Napoleon is buried
0:35:13 > 0:35:19and I had to pass the foot of the Eiffel Tower
0:35:19 > 0:35:21to get to my office.
0:35:22 > 0:35:25And one day I saw that the feet of the Eiffel Tower,
0:35:25 > 0:35:31which hitherto had been guarded by Indochinese troops,
0:35:31 > 0:35:33by Annamites,
0:35:33 > 0:35:35was guarded by territorials.
0:35:35 > 0:35:38And I thought this must mean something.
0:35:38 > 0:35:42And I had French officers on my mission
0:35:43 > 0:35:47and I sent them to find out what had happened and I found
0:35:47 > 0:35:49the night before, the mob,
0:35:49 > 0:35:53in a very poor slum of Paris called Saint-Ouen,
0:35:53 > 0:35:56had set on these Indochinese soldiers
0:35:56 > 0:36:00who had fled to barracks and in their flight
0:36:00 > 0:36:06had fired on the mob, whereupon the mob had stormed the barracks
0:36:06 > 0:36:10and cut off the heads of a number of these soldiers,
0:36:10 > 0:36:13which wasn't too good.
0:36:13 > 0:36:18Then I found that... I heard -
0:36:18 > 0:36:22and remember, I knew the French army very well indeed,
0:36:22 > 0:36:25I'd spent years with them -
0:36:26 > 0:36:29and I heard there were mutinies.
0:36:29 > 0:36:31In the army itself.
0:36:34 > 0:36:39And I decided to go up and see for myself,
0:36:39 > 0:36:42which was a method I've always adopted.
0:36:44 > 0:36:49And I arrived in part of the country near Soissons,
0:36:49 > 0:36:52which I knew very well,
0:36:52 > 0:36:58and there I was met with the most amazing sight.
0:36:58 > 0:37:03Regiment after regiment was in open mutiny.
0:37:05 > 0:37:10By which I meant there were degrees of mutiny.
0:37:11 > 0:37:17In many units, all the men wore red rosettes.
0:37:17 > 0:37:24The officers were confined to a section of the village,
0:37:24 > 0:37:27had no authority at all
0:37:27 > 0:37:31and the men had established posts
0:37:31 > 0:37:36and I wasn't in the least molested.
0:37:36 > 0:37:37I asked what was going on.
0:37:40 > 0:37:42Got rather evasive answers,
0:37:42 > 0:37:46but in the main found that the line taken by the men was
0:37:46 > 0:37:50that they were prepared to occupy the line,
0:37:52 > 0:37:55but they weren't prepared to fight
0:37:55 > 0:37:57after what had happened.
0:37:57 > 0:38:00After the bloodbaths they'd been submitted to, after all,
0:38:00 > 0:38:04one could understand their point of view.
0:38:04 > 0:38:11I thereupon came upon one or two generals I knew very well,
0:38:11 > 0:38:15who had been told off to attempt to re-establish order.
0:38:18 > 0:38:24And the troops that were used to re-establish order were
0:38:24 > 0:38:30the cavalry, the artillery and in units, funnily enough,
0:38:31 > 0:38:37small units like machine guns or the pioneers in the regiment,
0:38:37 > 0:38:41soldiers who had an individual officer
0:38:41 > 0:38:45and who weren't very numerous, hadn't mutinied.
0:38:48 > 0:38:54The most astonishing sight I saw was a village in which...
0:38:55 > 0:39:00at least one mutinous regiment, three battalions.
0:39:00 > 0:39:06And there there were guns, wheel to wheel, round that village.
0:39:06 > 0:39:13And the civilian population was allowed out twice a day to be fed.
0:39:14 > 0:39:16And they came out, were fed,
0:39:16 > 0:39:19and went back into the village amongst the mutinous troops.
0:39:20 > 0:39:25I was terrified lest our troops...
0:39:25 > 0:39:29We had very long lines of communication to Italy.
0:39:29 > 0:39:31We had about 50,000 men scattered
0:39:31 > 0:39:35all the way down from Boulogne to the Italian frontier.
0:39:35 > 0:39:37And knowing or apprehending
0:39:37 > 0:39:40that there might be some trouble
0:39:40 > 0:39:43in great towns like Lyons,
0:39:44 > 0:39:48that the local authorities, having no other troops,
0:39:48 > 0:39:52might call on local British commanders to re-establish order.
0:39:53 > 0:39:58Well, I knew that if that happened, the war was lost.
0:39:58 > 0:40:00Because the news would spread like wildfire
0:40:00 > 0:40:02amongst the troops in line
0:40:02 > 0:40:06that the English - I knew the form it would take -
0:40:06 > 0:40:10the English and the Senegalese are shooting down our women and children.
0:40:10 > 0:40:14And whatever happened, this mustn't happen.
0:40:14 > 0:40:19And so I communicated with the Chief of Imperial General Staff
0:40:19 > 0:40:23in London and sent him a signal saying whatever happens,
0:40:23 > 0:40:31don't accept - don't comply with any request of this par.
0:40:33 > 0:40:37When I reported to the War Office
0:40:37 > 0:40:41there were mutinies in the French army,
0:40:41 > 0:40:44the Chief of the Imperial General Staff
0:40:44 > 0:40:47expressed the utmost astonishment at this.
0:40:50 > 0:40:52Because he said he'd heard nothing of it.
0:40:54 > 0:41:01It did seem astonishing that we had 60 highly qualified officers
0:41:01 > 0:41:04attached to the French headquarters
0:41:05 > 0:41:07and over a period of weeks,
0:41:07 > 0:41:14the French had managed to conceal any trouble from them.
0:41:14 > 0:41:16In a way, perhaps, it was fortunate,
0:41:17 > 0:41:19because the Germans hadn't heard either.
0:41:19 > 0:41:24If the Germans had, the war would have been over.
0:41:27 > 0:41:31Now, when they did hear,
0:41:31 > 0:41:35I was ordered to go, once again,
0:41:35 > 0:41:38to the front
0:41:38 > 0:41:41and assess what the problem was.
0:41:44 > 0:41:48And I found that there were only two divisions
0:41:48 > 0:41:51out of the whole French army
0:41:51 > 0:41:55that could be relied upon between the front line and Paris.
0:41:59 > 0:42:04Something like over 40 divisions had been affected, more or less.
0:42:05 > 0:42:11Well, I went and I saw what was going on,
0:42:11 > 0:42:14which was very much what I'd seen on my previous visit
0:42:14 > 0:42:20and I had been told to be back in Paris two days later
0:42:20 > 0:42:25and it was possible that I should then be ordered to London.
0:42:25 > 0:42:27I turned up as ordered,
0:42:27 > 0:42:32on the night of my second day's visit to the front, and there,
0:42:32 > 0:42:33sure enough, was a telegram
0:42:33 > 0:42:39telling me to report to Number 10 Downing Street next morning.
0:42:39 > 0:42:45Well, I got into a car and I went off to the coast as best I could,
0:42:45 > 0:42:51and there I used the order I had which enabled me
0:42:51 > 0:42:55to commandeer a destroyer to cross the Channel.
0:42:56 > 0:42:59It was very unpopular with the Navy because it was low tide
0:42:59 > 0:43:04and they didn't particularly like moving about the Channel
0:43:04 > 0:43:08at low tide - however, there was my order and I did get over.
0:43:08 > 0:43:15And I got to Dover, got hold of a railway engine,
0:43:15 > 0:43:17got on the platform of this thing
0:43:17 > 0:43:21and had myself conveyed to London.
0:43:21 > 0:43:26I just had time to have a shave at the Cavalry Club,
0:43:26 > 0:43:28took myself to Downing Street.
0:43:28 > 0:43:34And there I was put through a severe questionnaire
0:43:34 > 0:43:37by no less a person
0:43:37 > 0:43:40than the Prime Minister, Mr Lloyd George.
0:43:40 > 0:43:42Who I really didn't know then.
0:43:43 > 0:43:47Mr Lloyd George was really distrustful of the soldiers
0:43:47 > 0:43:51at the time, especially of the Chief of the Imperial General Staff,
0:43:51 > 0:43:53Sir William Robertson.
0:43:56 > 0:43:59And Mr Lloyd George said to me
0:43:59 > 0:44:01"You've been appointed to Paris.
0:44:01 > 0:44:03"You're supposed to know...
0:44:03 > 0:44:07"understand the French and the French army.
0:44:07 > 0:44:13"Are the French going to get over their present trouble?"
0:44:13 > 0:44:19Well, there were many rumours at the time, but both countries,
0:44:19 > 0:44:23France and England, having suffered so much, there was a possibility
0:44:23 > 0:44:28that the politicians might sell each other down the river.
0:44:28 > 0:44:31That France might try and make a separate peace
0:44:31 > 0:44:34favourable to themselves, and the English might do the same thing.
0:44:34 > 0:44:37The French were convinced the English might do so.
0:44:37 > 0:44:40And vice versa.
0:44:40 > 0:44:42And I felt it extremely important...
0:44:42 > 0:44:44I couldn't bear the idea that,
0:44:44 > 0:44:48owing to some stupid thing I might say,
0:44:48 > 0:44:51the impression would be created
0:44:51 > 0:44:58the French army was no longer worth anything that you could rely on.
0:44:58 > 0:45:02And I didn't believe it. I believed they would get out of it somehow.
0:45:02 > 0:45:06Although, I must say, I didn't have much to go on.
0:45:06 > 0:45:14Lloyd George said to me, "Is the French army going to get over this?
0:45:14 > 0:45:17And I said, "I believe it is.
0:45:19 > 0:45:22"They've had a frightful time,
0:45:22 > 0:45:23"but now Petain's in charge
0:45:23 > 0:45:25"and he's a wonderful leader
0:45:25 > 0:45:28"and the men have got faith in him.
0:45:28 > 0:45:31"I believe they will get over it."
0:45:31 > 0:45:36And Lloyd George said, "You've got to be much more assertive than that.
0:45:38 > 0:45:42"Are the French army going to get over it or not?"
0:45:42 > 0:45:44I said, "I'm sure they will."
0:45:47 > 0:45:51But, er, "I think I'd prefer you to be more assertive still."
0:45:51 > 0:45:57Well, I said, turning to, as he then was, Colonel Hankey,
0:45:57 > 0:46:01who has since become Lord Hankey.
0:46:01 > 0:46:08And I said, "Colonel Hankey can write down that I'm perfectly
0:46:08 > 0:46:12"willing to stake my life on this assertion.
0:46:12 > 0:46:15"If I'm wrong, you can have me shot."
0:46:17 > 0:46:22And then Lloyd George said to me, "I want you to give me your word,
0:46:22 > 0:46:24"as an officer and a gentleman,
0:46:24 > 0:46:27"the French army's going to get over this."
0:46:27 > 0:46:30And then I'm afraid, young officer that I was,
0:46:30 > 0:46:34I lost my temper with the great Prime Minister.
0:46:34 > 0:46:39And I said, "Prime Minister, as I said, you can have me shot
0:46:39 > 0:46:43"if I'm wrong, but that you should ask me to give you my word
0:46:43 > 0:46:46"as an officer and a gentlemen
0:46:46 > 0:46:49"shows that you understand the meaning of neither word."
0:46:49 > 0:46:54Whereupon I got out of the room. I'll never know why or how.
0:46:54 > 0:46:58But I really left that place hanging off the railings
0:46:58 > 0:47:01on the street outside.
0:47:01 > 0:47:06I'd had a much worse shock than I ever had at the front.
0:47:08 > 0:47:10The thing that astonishes me
0:47:10 > 0:47:17is that the French army didn't mutiny a long time before 1917.
0:47:17 > 0:47:22The French army of 1914 was a magnificent force.
0:47:24 > 0:47:28It comprised all the live elements of the country
0:47:28 > 0:47:33which were anxious to, at last, avenge themselves
0:47:33 > 0:47:35with the great defeat of 1870
0:47:35 > 0:47:38and of all the humiliations they had suffered
0:47:38 > 0:47:41at the hands of the Germans ever since.
0:47:43 > 0:47:50And they had had absolutely appalling losses.
0:47:50 > 0:47:54Due largely to their own mistakes
0:47:54 > 0:47:56and to mistaken theories.
0:47:56 > 0:47:58Because at the beginning of the war,
0:47:58 > 0:48:02in August 1914, I myself had seen
0:48:02 > 0:48:07the French army attacking German positions of machine guns
0:48:07 > 0:48:13with bands playing and officers with white gloves leading their men.
0:48:14 > 0:48:18They lost... I haven't got the figure by me now,
0:48:18 > 0:48:21but it's well known, something quite frightful
0:48:21 > 0:48:24in the first two or three months of the war.
0:48:24 > 0:48:30They went on suffering terrible losses.
0:48:30 > 0:48:35Still they endured, displaying qualities of stoicism,
0:48:35 > 0:48:40of staying power which we really thought only we were capable of.
0:48:42 > 0:48:46And finally they'd been told, in 1917, that at last,
0:48:46 > 0:48:51this General Nivelle had discovered the formula for victory.
0:48:51 > 0:48:54And he launched his great attack
0:48:55 > 0:49:02on what's called the Chemin des Dames where, which I witnessed,
0:49:02 > 0:49:04I took part in,
0:49:05 > 0:49:09and where 90,000 men were killed and wounded in 24 hours.
0:49:11 > 0:49:15Who can blame the men who had suffered so much
0:49:15 > 0:49:20for not believing that the struggle was hopeless?
0:49:20 > 0:49:24Who can blame them for having lost faith in their leadership?
0:49:25 > 0:49:32And it was then that a real miracle occurred and General Petain,
0:49:32 > 0:49:40to whom... The Petain of 1917 is a man to whom we owe a great deal.
0:49:40 > 0:49:45General Petain was put in charge of the French army
0:49:45 > 0:49:51and he re-established morale in a matter of months.
0:49:51 > 0:49:57I saw him doing so, some of the time, and he visited,
0:49:57 > 0:50:02in a very short time, every division in the French army.
0:50:02 > 0:50:06Insisting that every single company should be represented
0:50:06 > 0:50:09by at least one trustworthy man.
0:50:09 > 0:50:11He spoke to them all.
0:50:11 > 0:50:16And they realised he felt for them,
0:50:16 > 0:50:19appreciated what they'd endured
0:50:19 > 0:50:21and was determined that they
0:50:21 > 0:50:25shouldn't be submitted to such unnecessary suffering again.
0:50:25 > 0:50:29The result was that the French army,
0:50:29 > 0:50:33at the end of '17, 1918,
0:50:33 > 0:50:36was at least as fine an army as it had been in 1914.