0:00:02 > 0:00:03BBC Four Collections,
0:00:04 > 0:00:07specially chosen programmes from the BBC archive.
0:00:07 > 0:00:10For this collection, Max Hastings has selected interviews
0:00:10 > 0:00:13with Great War veterans filmed in the 1960s.
0:00:13 > 0:00:15More programmes on this theme
0:00:15 > 0:00:17and other BBC Four Collections
0:00:17 > 0:00:19are available on BBC iPlayer.
0:00:48 > 0:00:51I started at the mill when I was 13 years of age,
0:00:52 > 0:00:55learning to be a ringspinner.
0:00:55 > 0:01:00And I only got a shillinga week learning...for four weeks.
0:01:00 > 0:01:03And then I eventuallybecame a doffer
0:01:03 > 0:01:05and I got eight shillingsa week then.
0:01:05 > 0:01:11And...I was working for eight shillings a week for about 12 months
0:01:11 > 0:01:16and then I eventually became a ring spinner and I got 15and 6 a week.
0:01:16 > 0:01:18That was the highest priced.
0:01:18 > 0:01:23And we used to work...from sixo'clockin the morning
0:01:23 > 0:01:25till half pastfive at night,
0:01:25 > 0:01:30and sixo'clock on Saturdays till 12 o'clock Saturday dinner time.
0:01:30 > 0:01:35Anyway, I... We used to go out at night,
0:01:35 > 0:01:38I had a friend, andwe met these two young men,
0:01:38 > 0:01:42and I liked minevery much, and he liked me.
0:01:42 > 0:01:47So, eventually, we...started courting.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49And this went on for a longtime,
0:01:49 > 0:01:52and I got to know that he wasonly in lodgings.
0:01:52 > 0:01:57He had no father and no mother. He wasa very steady young man,
0:01:57 > 0:02:02verybig and fair, and he was all thata young woman would wish to see.
0:02:02 > 0:02:04He was a lovely man,
0:02:04 > 0:02:08really good and he was a member of St Cross' Church at Clayton.
0:02:08 > 0:02:13And we eventually made our mindsup that we would get married,
0:02:13 > 0:02:15but we wanted a house.
0:02:15 > 0:02:18So we saved our money up, which wasn't much,
0:02:18 > 0:02:20we couldn't save much those days.
0:02:20 > 0:02:25Anyway, we did save up and eventually we got a house in Clayton
0:02:25 > 0:02:27for three and sixpence a week.
0:02:27 > 0:02:29And we got it furnished
0:02:29 > 0:02:32and we livedthere and we was very, very happy,
0:02:32 > 0:02:35because we was very much in love.
0:02:35 > 0:02:38He thought the world of me, and I thought the world of him.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41And at times, at nights, when you used to be at home -
0:02:41 > 0:02:44I used to have lovely hair in those days -
0:02:44 > 0:02:48and he used to do me hairup forme, all kinds of styles.
0:02:48 > 0:02:50Andhe was a beautiful man.
0:02:50 > 0:02:57And we...we workedtogether and we paid for our hometogether
0:02:57 > 0:02:59and we was extremely happy.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02No-one was happier. And I was very, very proud of him,
0:03:02 > 0:03:06especially with him beinga member of the St Cross' Church.
0:03:06 > 0:03:08And then the war started.
0:03:10 > 0:03:14And he didn't have any need togo to the war, really.
0:03:14 > 0:03:16He had no need to go to the war,
0:03:16 > 0:03:20because his job was paintingcars, Ibelieve.
0:03:20 > 0:03:22But, anyway, he was very patriotic.
0:03:22 > 0:03:26Well, we had a friend over in Canada that had enlisted over there,
0:03:26 > 0:03:30and he came over here and he cameone night and asked us
0:03:30 > 0:03:32wouldwe go to the Palace?
0:03:32 > 0:03:35He'dbooked seatsfor the Palace and would we go?
0:03:35 > 0:03:37We didn't know what was on, of course,
0:03:37 > 0:03:40and it was a great treat for us, so we went.
0:03:40 > 0:03:44When we got there at the Palace, everything was lovely.
0:03:44 > 0:03:46AndVesta Tilley was recruiting,
0:03:46 > 0:03:48whichwe never knew till we got there.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51I wouldn't have goneif I'd known, of course.
0:03:51 > 0:03:54Anyway, we got there, and she was recruiting
0:03:54 > 0:03:58and she was dressed on the stagebeautifully.
0:03:58 > 0:04:02A beautiful gown, either silver orgold, I'm not quite sure,
0:04:02 > 0:04:03but it was an evening gown.
0:04:03 > 0:04:05And then they was all on the stage,
0:04:05 > 0:04:08the officers and the tables allset out for recruiting.
0:04:08 > 0:04:11She also had a big Union Jack wrapped round her
0:04:11 > 0:04:13and she introduced that song
0:04:13 > 0:04:16WeDon't Want To Lose You (ButWe Think You Ought To Go)
0:04:16 > 0:04:19and Rule Britannia and all those kind of things.
0:04:20 > 0:04:22And then she came out of the stage
0:04:22 > 0:04:24and walked all around in the audience,
0:04:24 > 0:04:27up and down either side, down the middle,
0:04:27 > 0:04:31and the young men was getting up out of the theatre
0:04:31 > 0:04:33and following her back again.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36And when she got to our stallwhere we was,
0:04:37 > 0:04:40she hesitated a bit, and I don't know what happened,
0:04:40 > 0:04:42but she put herhand on my husband's shoulder.
0:04:42 > 0:04:44He was on the end seat.
0:04:44 > 0:04:46She put her hand on his shoulder,
0:04:46 > 0:04:49andas the men was all following her down,
0:04:49 > 0:04:51he got up and followed her down too.
0:04:52 > 0:04:56And they all went on the stage and they was all recruited,
0:04:56 > 0:05:00taken their names and received the King's shilling at that time.
0:05:01 > 0:05:06And then he came...we came home that night,and I was terribly upset
0:05:06 > 0:05:11and I said...I didn't want him to go and be a soldier,
0:05:11 > 0:05:13because I didn't want to lose him.
0:05:13 > 0:05:15I didn't want him to go at all.
0:05:16 > 0:05:18But, he said, "We have to go."
0:05:18 > 0:05:21He said, "There has to be men togo and fight for their women,
0:05:21 > 0:05:23"otherwise,"he said, "where should we be?"
0:05:23 > 0:05:28And he eventually persuaded me that it was all for the best.
0:05:28 > 0:05:32And he was only at home about two days afterwards and then he went.
0:05:32 > 0:05:36He went to Preston, and I...brokethe house up,
0:05:36 > 0:05:38because I didn'twant to be there alone,
0:05:38 > 0:05:40and went backto live with me mother,
0:05:40 > 0:05:43because it was near the mill whereI worked too.
0:05:43 > 0:05:47So he went to Preston. And he wasat Preston a short time,
0:05:48 > 0:05:50not verylong at Preston.
0:05:50 > 0:05:53And then hesent mea letter to say he'd heard
0:05:53 > 0:05:56they wasgoing to be moved to Bournemouth
0:05:56 > 0:05:59anddid I think I could get to Preston?
0:05:59 > 0:06:03Well, I had no idea where Preston wasthen from where I lived.
0:06:03 > 0:06:06It seemed miles away, but I eventually made it.
0:06:06 > 0:06:08And I got to Preston.
0:06:08 > 0:06:12And just as I'dgot to Preston and madeinquiries about him,
0:06:12 > 0:06:15Ifoundout thatthey'd been moved the day before.
0:06:15 > 0:06:18Anyway, they was verykind at the barracks at Preston,
0:06:18 > 0:06:19they made me a cup of tea.
0:06:19 > 0:06:23And I cameback home...heartbroke, really, because I hadn't seen him.
0:06:23 > 0:06:27Later on, he made arrangements, and I made arrangements,
0:06:27 > 0:06:30and he was moved to Bournemouth.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33And I went to Bournemouth. I went to Bournemouth
0:06:33 > 0:06:35and I had a few days with him at Bournemouth
0:06:36 > 0:06:37in the billetswhere they was.
0:06:37 > 0:06:39There was a lot of soldiers there.
0:06:39 > 0:06:43A lot of soldiers from Wiganand they really made me very,very welcome.
0:06:43 > 0:06:47And we had a glorioustime at Bournemouth.
0:06:47 > 0:06:49And then when...he was cominghome from Bournemouth,
0:06:49 > 0:06:54on his lastleave before he went overseas,so I came home with him,
0:06:54 > 0:06:56and we had a few days at home.
0:06:56 > 0:07:01Not very many days, because they only got six days leave at all that time.
0:07:01 > 0:07:05So we came home to me mother's, and he stayed home
0:07:05 > 0:07:07and then he had to go overseas.
0:07:07 > 0:07:10And during the time he wasa soldier,
0:07:11 > 0:07:15I got12 and sixpence a week, 12and sixpence.
0:07:15 > 0:07:20That was just the pay and that wasall that I had...
0:07:20 > 0:07:24beside working, doing that bit of work.
0:07:24 > 0:07:29So he went overseas, and I never saw him for about six months.
0:07:29 > 0:07:34He sent word he was cominghome on leave at Christmas.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37I was expecting him over Christmas.
0:07:37 > 0:07:42And...in the meantime, I'dgive the work up at the mill,
0:07:42 > 0:07:45I'd heard therewas a better job at a leather works,
0:07:45 > 0:07:48Noblett's Leather Works at Audenshawit was.
0:07:48 > 0:07:49So I went for this joband I got it,
0:07:49 > 0:07:52and it was a lot moremoney than I was getting.
0:07:52 > 0:07:55So I was fullyworking at Noblett's Leather Works
0:07:55 > 0:08:00when he came homeunexpected in January for his leave.
0:08:00 > 0:08:02And the morning thatI was going out to work...
0:08:02 > 0:08:06it was Monday morning, and I was ready for going.
0:08:06 > 0:08:08We set off at seven o'clock in the morning -
0:08:08 > 0:08:10we didn't start till quarter toeight at Noblett's -
0:08:10 > 0:08:12and I set off at seven o'clock.
0:08:12 > 0:08:14There used to be a boycalled for me,
0:08:14 > 0:08:16he would be about 15, that's all,
0:08:16 > 0:08:18but it was company, we used to walk it.
0:08:18 > 0:08:22And before he came - I was gettingready to go to work -
0:08:23 > 0:08:26before this boycame, there was a loud knocking onthe door,
0:08:26 > 0:08:28such a big knocking on the door.
0:08:28 > 0:08:33And this voice shouted, "Openthe door, the Jerrys are here!"
0:08:33 > 0:08:36See? So me mother said,
0:08:36 > 0:08:39"Oh," she said,"it's Percy, I can tell his voice."
0:08:39 > 0:08:41And in he came, you know,
0:08:41 > 0:08:45all mucky and what have you, right from France.
0:08:45 > 0:08:49He came in, and this boy just followed him in behind him.
0:08:49 > 0:08:51And he said, "Oh,she's not going to work."
0:08:51 > 0:08:53He said,"Tell the boss
0:08:53 > 0:08:56"that she'snot comingto work while I'm on leave."
0:08:56 > 0:08:59So, eventually, I didn't go to work
0:08:59 > 0:09:02and I stayed homeall the time that he had his leave.
0:09:02 > 0:09:06But he was very, very filthy and dirty, even lousy.
0:09:06 > 0:09:08And mother said, "Oh,"she says,
0:09:08 > 0:09:11"you're notsleeping in my bed like that."
0:09:11 > 0:09:12Shesaid, "There's a tub in the back
0:09:12 > 0:09:15"and you'd better getyour things off, get them shirts off
0:09:15 > 0:09:19"and whatnot and throw that khaki out, see what I can do with it."
0:09:19 > 0:09:22There she was brushingdown the sides, you know,
0:09:22 > 0:09:25to see there wasn'tanything in and all the rest of it,
0:09:25 > 0:09:29and eventually we found someold clothes of his
0:09:29 > 0:09:32that he hadbefore, and he had a good rest.
0:09:32 > 0:09:35And then he said to me during that day, he was tired,
0:09:35 > 0:09:37and he only got six days leave,
0:09:37 > 0:09:40and two days travellingout of that
0:09:40 > 0:09:43had to be taken off the six days.
0:09:43 > 0:09:44So he didn't have very long.
0:09:44 > 0:09:48And he says now... He says, "Now, Kitty".He called me Kitty.
0:09:48 > 0:09:52He says, "Now, Kitty,"he says, "what wouldyou like for a present?
0:09:52 > 0:09:54"I'm going to buy you a present while I'm home."
0:09:54 > 0:09:57I said, "Oh, I don't know." I said...
0:09:57 > 0:10:00I'm afraidI was rather vain in those days
0:10:00 > 0:10:02and I was a rather attractive girl
0:10:02 > 0:10:06and I said, "Do you know, I've seen a beautiful hat down the street.
0:10:06 > 0:10:09"Oh, it is a lovely hat!" I said, "I would like it."
0:10:09 > 0:10:13And it was in a shop window,and I'd looked at this hat severaltimes.
0:10:13 > 0:10:15And it was a lovely hat, and I'd have loved it,
0:10:15 > 0:10:17but it was such a terrible dear hat.
0:10:17 > 0:10:22Them times, that would be 1915, you see,
0:10:22 > 0:10:24it was 19s 11d.
0:10:24 > 0:10:28Well, we could a lovely hat them timesfor 2s 11d, you see.
0:10:28 > 0:10:31And he said, "Well, come on, we'llgo downand have a look at it."
0:10:31 > 0:10:33And I'll never forget that hat.
0:10:33 > 0:10:38It was white felt, and itturned up all around and with mebeing dark...
0:10:38 > 0:10:42And it had a big mauvefeather all the way in the brim and it hung over.
0:10:42 > 0:10:44Oh, it was gorgeous.
0:10:44 > 0:10:47So we got dressed up afterI got this hat.
0:10:47 > 0:10:50He bought it me. After, we got dressed up,
0:10:50 > 0:10:51and I took him to the works,
0:10:51 > 0:10:54Noblett'sLeather Works, whereI worked.
0:10:54 > 0:10:57And I introduced him to Mr Noblett himself,
0:10:57 > 0:10:59and they all shook hands with him.
0:10:59 > 0:11:03And how pleased and proud I was when he went in the leather works
0:11:03 > 0:11:05and everybody could see him.
0:11:05 > 0:11:09Anyway, he went back about the Thursday night, I should think.
0:11:09 > 0:11:13No longer than that. I didn't go with him to the tram,
0:11:13 > 0:11:16because there was trams thosedays, you know,
0:11:16 > 0:11:18there was nobuses, there was trams.
0:11:18 > 0:11:20I didn't go with him to the tram.
0:11:20 > 0:11:24One of me brothers went withhim...anda friend of his.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27And he told this friend, it seems, afterwards he told me,
0:11:27 > 0:11:31he said, "I'm afraid Ishall never come back again."
0:11:31 > 0:11:36Anyway, he went, and I went back towork afterwards.
0:11:36 > 0:11:40And I worked at Noblett's Leather Works
0:11:40 > 0:11:43and thenI found out that I was pregnant.
0:11:45 > 0:11:49During the time that he was away, I was very, very lonely,
0:11:49 > 0:11:52as I didn'tmake friends very easily,
0:11:52 > 0:11:56and all thethoughts I had was for my husband.
0:11:56 > 0:12:01And...it was... Times was very, very hard,
0:12:01 > 0:12:03and I only had 12s 6d a week
0:12:03 > 0:12:07and therefore I couldn't go out and spend like anyone else.
0:12:08 > 0:12:12And I used to sit at nightand try to do a bit of reading
0:12:13 > 0:12:17ora bit of sewing with me hands topass the time away like that.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20But it was very, very hard,
0:12:20 > 0:12:24andat times,I would wonder whathe was doing
0:12:24 > 0:12:26and if he was thinking about me.
0:12:26 > 0:12:32And wondering how he was going on andwhen I should see him again
0:12:32 > 0:12:34and all things like that.
0:12:34 > 0:12:36Well, my mother, in the meantime,
0:12:36 > 0:12:40hadgone to do a little jobpicking strawberries at a jamfactory,
0:12:40 > 0:12:43and so there was only me in the house,
0:12:43 > 0:12:47and I carried on and carried on and carried on.
0:12:47 > 0:12:50And then I did a bit more work afterwards.
0:12:50 > 0:12:52When I found out I was pregnant,
0:12:52 > 0:12:54I went up to see them at the leather works
0:12:54 > 0:12:58and told them,and he said,"We'll find you a light job,Mrs Morter."
0:12:58 > 0:13:01They said, "Come along in, and we'll find you a light job."
0:13:01 > 0:13:04So I went back to work atthe Noblett's leather factory
0:13:04 > 0:13:06when I found out I was pregnant.
0:13:06 > 0:13:09And I worked there till I was seven months pregnant.
0:13:09 > 0:13:12And I had a very good job.
0:13:12 > 0:13:17And then, I'd just give up work on the Friday night...
0:13:17 > 0:13:23as I receivedword on the Monday morning.
0:13:23 > 0:13:26On theFriday night, I'd just give up work
0:13:26 > 0:13:29and I'd gone to bed as usual over the weekend.
0:13:29 > 0:13:31I didn't go out very much,
0:13:31 > 0:13:36because I had a very badtime during my pregnancy.
0:13:36 > 0:13:42And the only thing that I couldkeep on my stomach was carrots.
0:13:42 > 0:13:47And they was very, very cheap, and I had two pound of carrots every day.
0:13:47 > 0:13:51That was the only thing I could eatwas carrots.
0:13:51 > 0:13:53And I had twopound of carrots every day.
0:13:54 > 0:13:57Anyway, they suited me, you see, and that was the best thing.
0:13:57 > 0:14:00And I was only very,very thin at the time.
0:14:00 > 0:14:02Anyway, I'd settled down
0:14:02 > 0:14:06and I'd just give up work, as I say, on the Friday night.
0:14:06 > 0:14:09I receiveda letter on the Monday morning.
0:14:09 > 0:14:13Well, mother had gone to the jam factory and she'd left me in bed,
0:14:13 > 0:14:16because I was getting on then, yousee.
0:14:16 > 0:14:20And she'd left me in bed whenI heard the postman come
0:14:20 > 0:14:22and I knewthat it would be a letter for me.
0:14:22 > 0:14:25So I ran down in me nightdress
0:14:25 > 0:14:29and opened the doorand snatched the letter off the postman.
0:14:29 > 0:14:33And...run in andshut the door in me nightdressand me bare feet.
0:14:33 > 0:14:39And I opened the letter, and it was from his sergeant.
0:14:39 > 0:14:42And it just said, "Dear MrsMorter,
0:14:42 > 0:14:46"I'm very sorry to tellyou of the death of your husband."
0:14:46 > 0:14:48Well, that was as far as I could read,you see.
0:14:48 > 0:14:50I couldn't read anything else.
0:14:50 > 0:14:55So I...I didn't know just for a few minuteswhat happened,
0:14:55 > 0:14:59but I ran out...I ran outof the house as I was, in me bare feet,
0:14:59 > 0:15:03and I banged on the next door... thenext-door neighbour.
0:15:03 > 0:15:05And it was a Mr and Mrs Hirst,
0:15:05 > 0:15:09and they let me in. "Whatever's to do?" she said.
0:15:09 > 0:15:13And I said, "Will you read this letter,Mrs Hirst? Read this letter."
0:15:13 > 0:15:16And she said, "Oh,she said, you poor child."
0:15:16 > 0:15:19And, of course, I don't know really what happened then,
0:15:19 > 0:15:22but they brought some blankets and wrapped me up in them.
0:15:22 > 0:15:25And they eventually sent word to me mother at the works,
0:15:25 > 0:15:27and she came home.
0:15:27 > 0:15:31Me mother came home,and... they treated me for shock.
0:15:31 > 0:15:35I had a real shock. But this was only from his sergeant,
0:15:35 > 0:15:39so I thought, "Well, perhapsit's just an error."
0:15:39 > 0:15:41I wasn't sure what had happened.
0:15:41 > 0:15:43I thought it's perhaps justan error.
0:15:43 > 0:15:48But later on...I wrote to thesergeant.
0:15:48 > 0:15:50I wroteand answered his letter
0:15:50 > 0:15:54and I foundout later on, I had another letterto say
0:15:54 > 0:15:57that the manthat had sent meword had also been killed.
0:15:57 > 0:16:00And then later on, I hadthe official news.
0:16:05 > 0:16:07So after I found
0:16:07 > 0:16:11that itwas officiallyknown that he had been killed,
0:16:11 > 0:16:16I used to pass metime away trying to make little babyclothes for my baby.
0:16:16 > 0:16:21And, eventually...thebaby came to be born.
0:16:21 > 0:16:26It was born at home, but...I don't remember it being born at all.
0:16:26 > 0:16:29I had a very bad time.
0:16:29 > 0:16:34I had two doctors and I don't rememberthe baby being born.
0:16:34 > 0:16:35And I felt I didn't want to live.
0:16:35 > 0:16:37I'd no wish to live at all,
0:16:37 > 0:16:41because the world had come toan end then for me,
0:16:41 > 0:16:43cos I'd lost all that I'd loved.
0:16:43 > 0:16:46You see, there was no need for meto live, sort of thing.
0:16:46 > 0:16:51But, anyway, the doctors said I had to go away,
0:16:51 > 0:16:56and they sent me to Gee Cross Hospital.
0:16:56 > 0:17:02It was a fever hospital at the time andI was in there six weeks.
0:17:02 > 0:17:03And then I came back home.
0:17:03 > 0:17:06And they tookme baby with me the night they tookme.
0:17:06 > 0:17:10And I remember the first time I ever saw the little baby,
0:17:10 > 0:17:12it wasin a little clothes basket,
0:17:12 > 0:17:16becausethey had no children's ward there.
0:17:16 > 0:17:19It was in a little clothes basket, and I thought that never wasmy baby,
0:17:19 > 0:17:22because it was such a little,tiny thing, just like a rabbit.