0:00:02 > 0:00:03BBC Four Collections,
0:00:03 > 0:00:07specially chosen programmes from the BBC archive.
0:00:07 > 0:00:10For this collection, Max Hastings has selected interviews
0:00:10 > 0:00:14with Great War veterans filmed in the 1960s.
0:00:14 > 0:00:17More programmes on this theme and other BBC Four Collections
0:00:17 > 0:00:19are available on BBC iPlayer.
0:00:47 > 0:00:50My father and my brother were at thefront,
0:00:51 > 0:00:53and later my youngest brother.
0:00:54 > 0:00:59And...my mother fretted a greatdeal about them.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01She was an American.
0:01:01 > 0:01:03She worried very much
0:01:03 > 0:01:07and her only means of knowing whether they were alive
0:01:07 > 0:01:09was readingthe casualty lists.
0:01:10 > 0:01:17And we children used to gather round...andlisten and watch
0:01:17 > 0:01:20and look over her shoulder, even, while she read them
0:01:20 > 0:01:22and the tension was felt by us all.
0:01:22 > 0:01:25Were they alive? Were they still with us?
0:01:25 > 0:01:29And even when my mother would putthe newspaper down,
0:01:29 > 0:01:33none of us really knew. We only knew what my mother had read,
0:01:34 > 0:01:36we didn't know what was happening at that very minute.
0:01:40 > 0:01:44When my father and my brothers, uncles, relatives,
0:01:44 > 0:01:46different sorts, and friends,
0:01:46 > 0:01:49when they came home on leave, as they frequently did,
0:01:49 > 0:01:52and they were either staying in our house
0:01:52 > 0:01:54or visitingour house,
0:01:54 > 0:02:00I noticed a strange lack of ability to communicate with us,
0:02:00 > 0:02:02to tell us what it was really like.
0:02:04 > 0:02:08They would perhaps make a joke thatyou feel...sounded hollow.
0:02:08 > 0:02:11There was nothing to laugh about.
0:02:11 > 0:02:13They were restless at home. They didn't want to stay home.
0:02:13 > 0:02:15They wanted to get back to the front.
0:02:17 > 0:02:20They always would express a desire to finish it.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23They didn't expect it togo on for four years.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26But the whole thing - "It can't go on, it can't go on."
0:02:26 > 0:02:30And always we thought when we said goodbye,
0:02:30 > 0:02:36always had shared their optimism that we didn't feel they felt.
0:02:36 > 0:02:40But we shared that, that theyfelt they would come back,
0:02:40 > 0:02:42which many of them didn't.
0:02:43 > 0:02:47And that sort of made our strain at home greater.
0:02:51 > 0:02:55I went into Hayes munitions factory,
0:02:55 > 0:02:58the No. 7 National FillingFactory,
0:02:58 > 0:03:00at the age of 17.
0:03:02 > 0:03:08On my way to the factory on the first morning,
0:03:08 > 0:03:11I had totravel from Ealing Common
0:03:11 > 0:03:14onwhatwas then the Great Western Railway.
0:03:14 > 0:03:16I was waiting down on the platform,
0:03:16 > 0:03:19I had to travel, of course, to Hayes factory,
0:03:19 > 0:03:23but on the way down, on the platform
0:03:23 > 0:03:26I met a woman with a little boy there,
0:03:26 > 0:03:29and I wasvery tired, I was yawning
0:03:29 > 0:03:31becauseI had to get up about five o'clock.
0:03:31 > 0:03:34And she said to me, "Are you tired after your work?"
0:03:34 > 0:03:36And I said, "No, I haven't started work.
0:03:36 > 0:03:40"I'm going to work thismorning on munitions."
0:03:40 > 0:03:42And she said, "Are you going to Hayes?"
0:03:42 > 0:03:45And I told her, "Yes, I am."
0:03:45 > 0:03:48And she said, "Oh, God, girl, how terrible," she said.
0:03:48 > 0:03:52"My eldest girl was blown to bits there last December."
0:03:54 > 0:03:58And it gave a horrid sort of feeling to the morning.
0:04:00 > 0:04:03I was prepared for danger, yes,
0:04:03 > 0:04:06but not at sixo'clock in the morning
0:04:06 > 0:04:08sort ofthrown at you by a remark like that.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13And I arrived there
0:04:13 > 0:04:16and I just was put through a medicalexamination
0:04:16 > 0:04:17and I passed as A1.
0:04:19 > 0:04:22And I was put onto a job in bombstores
0:04:22 > 0:04:25which was reallycleaning detonators,
0:04:25 > 0:04:31chipping a coating of TNT and amatol off them
0:04:31 > 0:04:32that was on them like paint.
0:04:32 > 0:04:34We had to take it off.
0:04:34 > 0:04:37It was very dull work, but theworkers were gay and charming,
0:04:37 > 0:04:39and I liked it.
0:04:39 > 0:04:43Well, the day came when I got the job that I think perhaps
0:04:43 > 0:04:46subconsciously I'd always beenlooking for.
0:04:46 > 0:04:48They asked for volunteers for thedanger zone...
0:04:50 > 0:04:52..and we went forward.
0:04:53 > 0:04:56When I say "we", I mean everybody went
0:04:56 > 0:04:58who had any pretentions tobe A1.
0:04:59 > 0:05:01You could passthe medical examination,
0:05:01 > 0:05:03or who had already passedit on coming into the factory.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06And I had been there only six days
0:05:06 > 0:05:12and I was transferred almost at once to the danger zone.
0:05:13 > 0:05:17And as we went through towork in the danger zone,
0:05:17 > 0:05:22we were lined up and we were put into magazine clothing
0:05:22 > 0:05:25and you had to wear wooden shoes and no hairpins
0:05:25 > 0:05:29and no safety pins or no anything really that was of metal.
0:05:31 > 0:05:33And we went along there.
0:05:33 > 0:05:36We had toclimb up onto a railway...
0:05:36 > 0:05:41thatran all along the factory over aten-milearea
0:05:41 > 0:05:43and there weresheds...
0:05:43 > 0:05:48Every few hundred yards,therewere these sheds of the danger zone.
0:05:49 > 0:05:52And different... As we passed along,
0:05:52 > 0:05:58as we were newcomers, the new girls, we were singing songs,
0:05:59 > 0:06:00war songs, very gay,
0:06:00 > 0:06:04and the othergirls from the sheds who werealready working
0:06:04 > 0:06:08were comingforwardand saying, "Bravo, girls,"
0:06:08 > 0:06:11because they were desperately short there
0:06:11 > 0:06:14and they knew that theywanted more workers.
0:06:14 > 0:06:18So we got well cheered overthe good two-mile walk...
0:06:20 > 0:06:22..passing along and singing songs,
0:06:22 > 0:06:25and then when there was a vacancy or20 vacancies
0:06:25 > 0:06:27or 50vacancies in a shed,
0:06:27 > 0:06:29so many were counted off and put in.
0:06:29 > 0:06:32And I was put into a shell-fillingshed.
0:06:32 > 0:06:35We were filling 18-poundershells.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37I was taught to fill these...
0:06:39 > 0:06:42..andthere was a lot of discussion goingon,even...
0:06:42 > 0:06:44I was only there three days.
0:06:44 > 0:06:46There was a lot of discussion going on then
0:06:46 > 0:06:51as to whether the girlswould, in fact, continue working.
0:06:51 > 0:06:53We never went into a shed
0:06:53 > 0:06:57unless there were some of the older workers there to show us and help us,
0:06:57 > 0:07:01but the older workers were moaning and upset and miserable,
0:07:01 > 0:07:04costhere'd been so many explosions.
0:07:04 > 0:07:09And I think they were justified.
0:07:09 > 0:07:10And we heard that the machines
0:07:10 > 0:07:14thatwe were going to be asked towork on had been condemned
0:07:14 > 0:07:16throughout all the munitionsfactories
0:07:16 > 0:07:20and that Mr David LloydGeorge was at the back of it
0:07:20 > 0:07:23and he was then Minister of Munitions,
0:07:23 > 0:07:26and new machines, in fact,were in position
0:07:26 > 0:07:29but they weren't in workingorder yet.
0:07:29 > 0:07:34Those machines were ones in which youfilled your shell
0:07:34 > 0:07:36in a concretechamber...
0:07:38 > 0:07:41..and so you weresaved in the event of an explosion.
0:07:41 > 0:07:43You were saved to a certainextent anyway.
0:07:46 > 0:07:50But the machines that we were put on that morning were
0:07:50 > 0:07:53Heath Robinson sort of machines
0:07:53 > 0:07:56and so difficult to describe to you,
0:07:56 > 0:08:00but they were operated notby machinery really
0:08:00 > 0:08:05but by a greatweight lifted up on ropes by girls
0:08:05 > 0:08:08behind a pile of wooden boxes.
0:08:08 > 0:08:10They had no other protection.
0:08:11 > 0:08:15And they had to dropthe weight down on top of the shell
0:08:15 > 0:08:18and the person who was working...
0:08:18 > 0:08:21There were only two machines, boys and girls.
0:08:21 > 0:08:24If you were working the boys, youcalled, "Right away, boys."
0:08:25 > 0:08:27And you put, after they'd already filled the shell,
0:08:27 > 0:08:30you put a sortof cabbage stem into it
0:08:30 > 0:08:34and waggledit each time the shell was hit.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39And you were only allowed, say 12, 12 blows.
0:08:39 > 0:08:43You called to the girls, and thenyou'd call, "Steady, girls,"
0:08:43 > 0:08:45andthey dropped that weight very slowly
0:08:45 > 0:08:47and bring a lever out to stop it.
0:08:48 > 0:08:50Only...
0:08:50 > 0:08:54that first morning I wasthere
0:08:54 > 0:08:57some girl didn't call, "Steady,girls,"
0:08:57 > 0:09:00but she put her head forward,
0:09:00 > 0:09:02so the weight came on her head
0:09:02 > 0:09:05andthat was goodbye to her anyway
0:09:05 > 0:09:08and avery unhappy feeling for us all.
0:09:10 > 0:09:13All the time there werepeople walking toand fro,
0:09:13 > 0:09:15emphasisingthe great danger.
0:09:17 > 0:09:20We wore magazine clothing,
0:09:20 > 0:09:24whichreally consisted of browndrill trousers
0:09:24 > 0:09:26and a brown drill tunic
0:09:26 > 0:09:29and a cap with a tape tied in it
0:09:29 > 0:09:31and we were continually searched.
0:09:31 > 0:09:33Cigarettes, matches,
0:09:33 > 0:09:36anything that you mighthave of metal was taken from you.
0:09:36 > 0:09:38And this went on, sort of, hourafter hour -
0:09:38 > 0:09:40you were pulled out for a search.
0:09:43 > 0:09:47And there was a great feeling all the time of tension,
0:09:47 > 0:09:50not exactly of fear, because we were very merry
0:09:50 > 0:09:54and we were always singing and very gay about it.
0:09:54 > 0:09:59The only difficulty I foundwhen I was put onto one of these machines
0:09:59 > 0:10:01was it was verytiring work.
0:10:01 > 0:10:03The shells were very heavy
0:10:03 > 0:10:06and we had to kneel down in frontof the machine.
0:10:06 > 0:10:09Knees... Youjust felt you hadn't got anyknees when you stood up.
0:10:09 > 0:10:14And youhadn't got any back as it was an aching mess from carrying them,
0:10:14 > 0:10:15the long hours and the wait.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19You had to wait for the shell to befilled and clamped in
0:10:20 > 0:10:24and then deal with your pullers at the back, who were on a bonus.
0:10:25 > 0:10:31And I've always felt that thesubsequent explosion was...
0:10:32 > 0:10:36..perhaps largely due to the fact they were on a bonus.
0:10:36 > 0:10:39So they would get very annoyed
0:10:39 > 0:10:45if we couldn't make room for thefuse by the cabbage-presser thing...
0:10:45 > 0:10:48we couldn't make enoughroom for the fuse,
0:10:48 > 0:10:52they would have to perhaps hit it20 times.
0:10:52 > 0:10:54Well, 18 was the limit.
0:10:55 > 0:11:00And a woman came up to me and she said, "How are you getting on?"
0:11:00 > 0:11:04And I said, "Well, not very well, it's taking a lot of blows."
0:11:04 > 0:11:06"And the pullers, who had to pull thatgreat weight up,
0:11:06 > 0:11:08"are getting very angry with me."
0:11:09 > 0:11:13And my carrier, that's a girl whocarries the shells to you
0:11:13 > 0:11:16and carries them away from you,
0:11:16 > 0:11:17she's a stacker and a carrier,
0:11:17 > 0:11:22she said, "I think the mixture's toocold. It should be hot."
0:11:22 > 0:11:24And the overlookers told her toshut up
0:11:24 > 0:11:26and told me to scrape a little out...
0:11:28 > 0:11:30..and to try again.
0:11:33 > 0:11:34Well...
0:11:36 > 0:11:39..I went on like that for twomore days
0:11:39 > 0:11:41and always the mixture was worse
0:11:41 > 0:11:46and always on both sides, boys and girls,the two machines,
0:11:46 > 0:11:48we were giving 18 blows.
0:11:48 > 0:11:53That's the maximum. You were supposed tohit nine or ten. As a maximum!
0:11:53 > 0:11:55And 20 is dangerous,very dangerous.
0:11:56 > 0:12:00And she came along again and saidI must scrape more out
0:12:00 > 0:12:02and I could give it up to22.
0:12:05 > 0:12:07Well, I said, "All right,"
0:12:07 > 0:12:13and my carrier, a girl who was helping me to carry the shells,
0:12:13 > 0:12:17she said, "I don't like that. I don't like any scraping out."
0:12:17 > 0:12:22Well, the whistle blew and we went to the canteen lunch
0:12:22 > 0:12:23and there...there was...
0:12:24 > 0:12:27The topicof conversation was the girl who'd been killed
0:12:27 > 0:12:28in the morning.
0:12:32 > 0:12:36And they were all angry
0:12:36 > 0:12:40when they got back to their shed on that afternoon, third afternoon.
0:12:40 > 0:12:41They were all angry
0:12:41 > 0:12:47and you're onlyallowed to work on those machineshalf a day...
0:12:47 > 0:12:49and nobody... They said, "We're not going to work on those.
0:12:49 > 0:12:53"Why haven't you got the newones in working order?"
0:12:53 > 0:12:57The overseer said, "Come on, volunteer, one of you."
0:12:58 > 0:13:00And they were calling out, "It's not your skin you're risking.
0:13:02 > 0:13:07"It isn't yourself. You won't even behere. You're going away."
0:13:07 > 0:13:10And I stood up and said I would go.
0:13:12 > 0:13:14And there was an outcry against that,
0:13:14 > 0:13:16probably because I was very young.
0:13:16 > 0:13:19And I looked it at 17.
0:13:19 > 0:13:22There was a sort of outcry against my going on
0:13:22 > 0:13:24and they said, "You've worked there the whole morning,
0:13:24 > 0:13:28"and you're young, and do you want to kill yourself?"
0:13:28 > 0:13:31Anyway, one of the oldergirls stood forward,
0:13:31 > 0:13:33one I had become very friendly with,
0:13:33 > 0:13:35she stood forward,
0:13:35 > 0:13:37a girl called Violet,
0:13:37 > 0:13:40and she said,"I'll come with you."
0:13:40 > 0:13:43So I hauled her up ontothe box
0:13:43 > 0:13:48that the foreman had got us to stand on as volunteers.
0:13:50 > 0:13:54And she came and she worked through the afternoon
0:13:54 > 0:13:58and the shells werefilled like magic
0:13:58 > 0:14:02and goingdown at about nine blows withsome of the mixture scraped out.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07I didn't know anything about munitions
0:14:07 > 0:14:09except what the girls had taught me.
0:14:09 > 0:14:12I knew that... You know they were always sweeping the floor,
0:14:12 > 0:14:16every bit of grit, every bit of loose powder,
0:14:16 > 0:14:20everything you'd possibly thinkof was swept up and taken from us
0:14:20 > 0:14:23and we were hauledoff our machines for searches.
0:14:23 > 0:14:25They did take trouble in that way.
0:14:27 > 0:14:31And at three o'clock in the afternoon,each afternoon,
0:14:31 > 0:14:35they brought us milk to drink.
0:14:35 > 0:14:38A trolley came round and we wentand we drank this milk
0:14:38 > 0:14:41and I, sort of being curious, askedwhy, and that...
0:14:41 > 0:14:47really it is tosave you from gettingthe TNTpoisoning.
0:14:47 > 0:14:50It acts as a neutraliser.
0:14:50 > 0:14:53And TNT poisoning was reallya yellow poisoning.
0:14:53 > 0:14:58You went completely yellow and yourclothes came off you yellow.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00It even affected your clothes.
0:15:00 > 0:15:03I don't know what it was, what it was caused by.
0:15:03 > 0:15:05It was very unpleasant.
0:15:05 > 0:15:08And you gotit very quickly and you carried it.
0:15:08 > 0:15:11You never got rid of it,
0:15:11 > 0:15:12just stayed there.
0:15:12 > 0:15:14You got more and more yellow
0:15:14 > 0:15:15and people looked at you then.
0:15:15 > 0:15:18When you got into a bus or Tube oranything like that,
0:15:18 > 0:15:21they sortof looked at you. They wonderedwhat was wrong with you.
0:15:22 > 0:15:23We felt like lepers going home.
0:15:25 > 0:15:26But on that day...
0:15:28 > 0:15:32..well, I'd justhad my milk and on that day the...
0:15:32 > 0:15:35We didn't go home like that
0:15:35 > 0:15:36because...
0:15:40 > 0:15:42..my shell exploded.