0:00:02 > 0:00:04I'm Joe Crowley and this is History Hunt,
0:00:04 > 0:00:07where children like YOU investigate exciting stuff from the past.
0:00:11 > 0:00:12'Big stuff...'
0:00:12 > 0:00:15- Incredible, isn't it?- It's massive!
0:00:15 > 0:00:17..surprising stuff...
0:00:17 > 0:00:19clever stuff.
0:00:19 > 0:00:23The clues are everywhere if you know where to look.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26And finding them is fun.
0:00:41 > 0:00:46On this episode of History Hunt, our team of four curious kids
0:00:46 > 0:00:50go right to the heart of government to find out about one brave person
0:00:50 > 0:00:55who fought for women to be given the right to vote.
0:00:55 > 0:01:00Today, I'm in Hastings - a historic town on the south coast of England.
0:01:00 > 0:01:03And this is The Crescent, one of the most beautiful streets in the town,
0:01:03 > 0:01:06and once home to a woman called Muriel Matters.
0:01:06 > 0:01:08But just who was she?
0:01:11 > 0:01:17This is Alice, Alex, Eve and Henry. They're today's History Hunters.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20Together, we're going to search for clues that will help us work out
0:01:20 > 0:01:23who Muriel Matters was, and what she did.
0:01:23 > 0:01:27Muriel, who was also known by her married name of Porter,
0:01:27 > 0:01:31was born in Australia and lived in this street for 20 years.
0:01:31 > 0:01:33So, who's going to read out what it says there?
0:01:33 > 0:01:36"First woman to 'speak' in the House of Commons."
0:01:36 > 0:01:40Why has it got those inverted commas round? Any ideas?
0:01:40 > 0:01:42Maybe it's not quite how it seems.
0:01:42 > 0:01:46So, how can we find out more? Where could we go to look?
0:01:46 > 0:01:47To the archive?
0:01:47 > 0:01:51I reckon we should start at Hastings archives and see what you can find.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54- Everyone ready?- Yeah, yep. - Right, let's go.
0:01:56 > 0:02:01Like all archives, Hastings has a collection of historical documents.
0:02:01 > 0:02:05I asked Eve and Henry, though, to look for clues online.
0:02:05 > 0:02:06Alex and Alice, meanwhile,
0:02:06 > 0:02:10look at actually physical documents held by the archives.
0:02:10 > 0:02:11In the local newspaper,
0:02:11 > 0:02:16they find a report on a suffragette meeting held in Hastings in 1908.
0:02:16 > 0:02:20At that time, women weren't allowed to vote in elections,
0:02:20 > 0:02:22and the suffragettes believed this was wrong.
0:02:22 > 0:02:25Muriel was in charge of the meeting.
0:02:25 > 0:02:29She was being criticised by men who said women didn't deserve the vote
0:02:29 > 0:02:32because they didn't do jobs that were as important
0:02:32 > 0:02:34as those done by the men.
0:02:34 > 0:02:35BOTH: "Grace Dar...ling
0:02:35 > 0:02:41"and Florence Nightingale had done as good work as any soldier."
0:02:41 > 0:02:44In those days, ladies weren't allowed to do much stuff,
0:02:44 > 0:02:45but she stuck up for herself.
0:02:45 > 0:02:49In an online newspaper search, Eve and Henry discover Muriel
0:02:49 > 0:02:55soon moved on from holding meetings, to a more extreme way of protesting.
0:02:55 > 0:02:58A report in The Times shows she chained herself to a grill
0:02:58 > 0:03:02in the House of Commons, and had to be removed by force.
0:03:02 > 0:03:05The Times writer wasn't impressed.
0:03:05 > 0:03:09"The interruption by women is regarded by members
0:03:09 > 0:03:12"as a childish exhibition."
0:03:12 > 0:03:16The Times are not really for women's rights.
0:03:16 > 0:03:18I don't think they're thinking...
0:03:18 > 0:03:21I think, probably, most people who write at The Times are men.
0:03:21 > 0:03:25A follow-up article reveals Muriel had actually been sent to prison.
0:03:25 > 0:03:28Alice and Alex, meanwhile, discover Muriel had tried
0:03:28 > 0:03:31to get into the House of Commons in the normal way.
0:03:31 > 0:03:36In 1924, she stood for election as a Member of Parliament.
0:03:36 > 0:03:38Remember back at the plaque, it said she was the first woman
0:03:38 > 0:03:40to speak in the House of Commons?
0:03:40 > 0:03:43- Oh, yeah.- If she's spoken there, maybe she won it.
0:03:43 > 0:03:46There isn't a paper copy of the election result,
0:03:46 > 0:03:50so Alice and Alex have to look on something called microfiche -
0:03:50 > 0:03:52a type of film for storing documents -
0:03:52 > 0:03:54for the copy of the Hastings Observer
0:03:54 > 0:03:56which contains the details they're looking for.
0:03:56 > 0:04:00"Conservatives, 9,000 majority."
0:04:00 > 0:04:03Percy's got more votes than she has.
0:04:04 > 0:04:07Time to compare notes.
0:04:07 > 0:04:10Guys, what do you know she got up to?
0:04:10 > 0:04:13She must have been a hard girl, because when she was at a meeting,
0:04:13 > 0:04:15she got shouted abuse, saying, "Oh, what?
0:04:15 > 0:04:19"So now women can be policemen, soldiers and sailors?"
0:04:19 > 0:04:21She was sticking up for what she believes in.
0:04:21 > 0:04:24- What's she after at these meetings? - Votes for women.
0:04:24 > 0:04:25What else is going on?
0:04:25 > 0:04:30She chained herself to the grills in the House of Commons.
0:04:30 > 0:04:34- Right, in Parliament?- Yeah. - So, Eve, how did they get them out?
0:04:34 > 0:04:35They had to cut them out,
0:04:35 > 0:04:39and the officers who took them away also brought the grill with them.
0:04:39 > 0:04:42The team also tell me about the fact that she stood for Parliament
0:04:42 > 0:04:43but failed to win the election.
0:04:43 > 0:04:47'So how was it, then, that she was the first woman to "speak"
0:04:47 > 0:04:48'in the House of Commons?'
0:04:48 > 0:04:50How do we find out more about this?
0:04:50 > 0:04:53- She wants political rights for women...- Go to Parliament.
0:04:53 > 0:04:56..she tries to be an MP... What was that?
0:04:56 > 0:04:58- Go to Parliament?- Right. That would make sense, wouldn't it?
0:04:58 > 0:05:01- That's at the heart of all this. - Yeah.- Yeah.
0:05:01 > 0:05:04- Parliament's the place to look next? - Yep.- Yeah.
0:05:04 > 0:05:06- We're going to London! - If we want to find out...
0:05:06 > 0:05:09- # We're going to London... # - Calm down.
0:05:09 > 0:05:13So, it's off to London to find out more about Muriel Matters.
0:05:13 > 0:05:17We visit Parliament, which is where Members of Parliament, called MPs,
0:05:17 > 0:05:21from all over the country meet to hold debates and make new laws.
0:05:21 > 0:05:23Here we are!
0:05:23 > 0:05:26The very grand Westminster Hall, here in the Palaces of Westminster.
0:05:26 > 0:05:29So, I want you guys to speak to your local MP.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32I want you to interview her and find out a little bit more
0:05:32 > 0:05:34about Muriel Matters and why she was so important.
0:05:34 > 0:05:37OK, you guys, I've arranged for you to meet an archivist
0:05:37 > 0:05:40in the Parliamentary Archives to help find some really good,
0:05:40 > 0:05:42interesting bits of history. Right?
0:05:43 > 0:05:47As Eve and Henry settle down to work in the Parliamentary Archives,
0:05:47 > 0:05:52Alice and Alex are able to grille Amber Rudd, their local MP.
0:05:52 > 0:05:54Here, I've got a picture of Muriel Matters,
0:05:54 > 0:05:57talking to this big crowd of people in Hastings.
0:05:57 > 0:06:00She must've been very brave to make her point
0:06:00 > 0:06:02in front of so many people.
0:06:02 > 0:06:05Do you agree with her tying herself to the grill?
0:06:05 > 0:06:08I do agree with it, even though, as a Member of Parliament,
0:06:08 > 0:06:11I generally disagree with people doing illegal things.
0:06:11 > 0:06:15But I do look back and think that it must have been so frustrating
0:06:15 > 0:06:19for women who wanted to vote to be told they couldn't,
0:06:19 > 0:06:23that I think that sort of dramatic action was exactly what was needed.
0:06:23 > 0:06:27And it's only because the suffragettes did so much
0:06:27 > 0:06:30and they risked so much that women then got the vote,
0:06:30 > 0:06:33and women like me are now able to be Members of Parliament.
0:06:33 > 0:06:36If it was still in the Victorian Age,
0:06:36 > 0:06:38would you be a part of the suffragettes?
0:06:38 > 0:06:40Yes, I would be. I would definitely be a suffragette.
0:06:40 > 0:06:43- Would you?- Yes.- Excellent.
0:06:43 > 0:06:47In the Archives, Eve and Henry are shown something very rare -
0:06:47 > 0:06:52a banner that Muriel took on her protest to the House of Commons.
0:06:52 > 0:06:55This is a banner that was unfurled from the Ladies' Gallery
0:06:55 > 0:06:58by Muriel Matters and Helen Fox, the suffragettes there that day.
0:06:58 > 0:07:01- Yeah, you can really see it's really old, can't you?- Yes.
0:07:01 > 0:07:03- Can you read it all? - "Women's Freedom League..."
0:07:03 > 0:07:08"..calls upon the Government to remove the sex disability
0:07:08 > 0:07:13"which deprives qualified women of their just right of voting
0:07:13 > 0:07:15"in the parliamentary elections."
0:07:15 > 0:07:20That's really nice to have something that Muriel has done.
0:07:20 > 0:07:24All of the stuff we've seen, it's just records of what has happened.
0:07:24 > 0:07:28There hasn't actually been something from when it did happen.
0:07:28 > 0:07:32The archivist also shows the team the cover of a magazine
0:07:32 > 0:07:33published at the time.
0:07:33 > 0:07:35"When the grill is in place,
0:07:35 > 0:07:39"the ladies behind it are not technically within the House,
0:07:39 > 0:07:42"but so soon as the grill is removed, they are in the House.
0:07:42 > 0:07:46"Thus, the two suffragettes in question were actually placed
0:07:46 > 0:07:49"in the House by the attendants of the House."
0:07:49 > 0:07:54Alice and Alex go to one of the most important places in the country -
0:07:54 > 0:07:57the Victoria Tower in the Palace of Westminster -
0:07:57 > 0:07:59which is where original Acts of Parliament,
0:07:59 > 0:08:02going back hundreds of years, are kept.
0:08:02 > 0:08:05They meet up with a lawyer and campaigner for women's rights
0:08:05 > 0:08:07to find out about how women finally got the vote.
0:08:07 > 0:08:11The problem that they had was that the people who voted were all men,
0:08:11 > 0:08:15so Parliament had no real reason to cater to women
0:08:15 > 0:08:16and grant them the vote.
0:08:16 > 0:08:18So, without that breaking of the law,
0:08:18 > 0:08:21Parliament could've continued to ignore them.
0:08:21 > 0:08:23When and why did women get the vote?
0:08:23 > 0:08:25Women were first given the vote in 1918,
0:08:25 > 0:08:28and that was just at the end of the First World War.
0:08:28 > 0:08:30The men had all been off fighting,
0:08:30 > 0:08:33and the women had to do a lot of the jobs that men had done.
0:08:33 > 0:08:35And so, at that point, people started to say,
0:08:35 > 0:08:37"Actually, yes, women should be given the vote."
0:08:40 > 0:08:42Now, we've got all this information,
0:08:42 > 0:08:45we understand about votes for women, we understand about the suffragettes
0:08:45 > 0:08:49and the stunts that took place, so what do you think of Muriel?
0:08:49 > 0:08:51I think she was a really brave woman to do everything she did.
0:08:51 > 0:08:54Some people must've thought she was weird, but she wasn't.
0:08:54 > 0:08:56She stood for what she wanted.
0:08:56 > 0:08:58She used to live in Australia - she could've gone back there.
0:08:58 > 0:09:02So, out of more than 1,000 towns, she chose Hastings.
0:09:02 > 0:09:04Do you like, now, your local history?
0:09:04 > 0:09:06- Does it make you want to learn more...?- ALL: Yes.
0:09:06 > 0:09:10We still have the mystery of what the blue plaque means when it says
0:09:10 > 0:09:13she was the "First woman to 'speak' in the House of Commons."
0:09:13 > 0:09:17One of the documents from the archives explains this.
0:09:17 > 0:09:19You guys discovered this, didn't you?
0:09:19 > 0:09:22Technically, because this grill was removed,
0:09:22 > 0:09:24she was actually part of Parliament,
0:09:24 > 0:09:29and therefore, on a technicality, she "spoke" in Parliament. Yeah.
0:09:29 > 0:09:30So, finally, then,
0:09:30 > 0:09:33do we think she was right to break the law in the way she did?
0:09:33 > 0:09:35ALL: Yes.
0:09:35 > 0:09:37And actually, if all this hadn't happened, your future, Alice,
0:09:37 > 0:09:40and your future, Eve, would be different from these two.
0:09:40 > 0:09:43And today, hopefully, it's much more similar. Yeah?
0:09:43 > 0:09:46Guys, I'm pleased you've learned so much. Done an excellent job.
0:09:46 > 0:09:49I would say that is first class history hunting.
0:09:49 > 0:09:51One of the most fascinating areas of history
0:09:51 > 0:09:55is looking at the individuals who were prepared to fight and improve
0:09:55 > 0:09:58rights for certain groups of people.
0:09:58 > 0:10:01Now, some believe you should obey the law no matter what.
0:10:01 > 0:10:05Others were prepared to go to prison for their beliefs.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07Muriel Matters was one such person.
0:10:07 > 0:10:10Her name stuck started out as just some writing on a blue plaque
0:10:10 > 0:10:13for our History Hunters, but from coming all the way here
0:10:13 > 0:10:16to the Houses of Parliament, they now know she was willing
0:10:16 > 0:10:17to sacrifice a lot.
0:10:17 > 0:10:22Even her own freedom to win votes for women. And that's her story.
0:10:25 > 0:10:31Muriel Matters was born in Australia and came to Britain in 1905, age 25.
0:10:31 > 0:10:33She came to perform on the London stage,
0:10:33 > 0:10:36but soon joined one of the biggest political protest movements
0:10:36 > 0:10:38in history - the suffragettes.
0:10:38 > 0:10:41The suffragettes wanted the vote for women,
0:10:41 > 0:10:44and they came from the suffrag-ist movement.
0:10:44 > 0:10:47The suffragists had been going since 1870 or so,
0:10:47 > 0:10:50and they'd been asking very nicely if they could have the vote,
0:10:50 > 0:10:51but the suffragettes said,
0:10:51 > 0:10:54"We've asked nicely for ages and haven't got anywhere,
0:10:54 > 0:10:58"so it's about time we started taking some direct action."
0:10:58 > 0:11:01In 1908, Muriel and her fellow suffragette chained themselves
0:11:01 > 0:11:05to a grill in the Ladies' Viewing Gallery at the House of Commons,
0:11:05 > 0:11:07and lowered a banner into the debating chamber.
0:11:07 > 0:11:11The only way to take her away was to remove the grill.
0:11:11 > 0:11:15Some people believe that because the grill had gone, technically,
0:11:15 > 0:11:17she was in the House of Commons,
0:11:17 > 0:11:20and therefore, her shouts of "Votes for Women!"
0:11:20 > 0:11:23meant that she was the first woman to speak in the House.
0:11:23 > 0:11:25Muriel was ejected from Parliament
0:11:25 > 0:11:28and then joined another demonstration outside.
0:11:28 > 0:11:31She was arrested and sent to prison.
0:11:31 > 0:11:33Eventually, the campaign was successful.
0:11:33 > 0:11:38The Representation of the People Act became law in February 1918.
0:11:38 > 0:11:39There was a bit of a catch.
0:11:39 > 0:11:42The age for men was 21, but for women,
0:11:42 > 0:11:46you had to be 30 to vote and you had to be a property owner.
0:11:46 > 0:11:51It was 1928 that women finally got the vote on the same terms as men.
0:11:51 > 0:11:56Muriel stood for Parliament in Hastings in 1924, but lost.
0:11:56 > 0:12:01She later settled in the town and lived there until her death in 1969.
0:12:06 > 0:12:10Our History Hunters found out loads of useful stuff on Muriel Matters
0:12:10 > 0:12:12by looking at old newspapers.
0:12:12 > 0:12:16Here's a guide on how to do this kind of research.
0:12:16 > 0:12:20There are many different ways to track down newspapers
0:12:20 > 0:12:21which could be of use to us.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24Perhaps the easiest is by searching online.
0:12:24 > 0:12:27Conveniently, some sites allow you to search a number of newspapers
0:12:27 > 0:12:29at the same time.
0:12:29 > 0:12:32It's no different from doing a normal internet search,
0:12:32 > 0:12:35although you may have to register with the site first.
0:12:35 > 0:12:37Just type in the subject you're looking for,
0:12:37 > 0:12:41and the site's search engine will call up stories that are relevant.
0:12:41 > 0:12:45Sometimes, you can go direct to a newspaper itself.
0:12:45 > 0:12:49When you find stories in the papers, you may notice different newspapers
0:12:49 > 0:12:50treat them in different ways.
0:12:50 > 0:12:52Some might criticise people,
0:12:52 > 0:12:55while others praise them for doing exactly the same thing.
0:12:55 > 0:12:57And that's the same nowadays -
0:12:57 > 0:13:00newspaper journalists have always had their own slant on stories,
0:13:00 > 0:13:03so you have to think about what their angle is
0:13:03 > 0:13:05and why they might be saying what they're saying.
0:13:05 > 0:13:08There are other ways of looking at newspapers too.
0:13:08 > 0:13:11Archives are places or online websites
0:13:11 > 0:13:13where information is collected and stored.
0:13:13 > 0:13:17Local archives often keep copies of their own local papers.
0:13:17 > 0:13:19These can go back many years.
0:13:19 > 0:13:22Sometimes, they're available on something called microfiche.
0:13:22 > 0:13:25The archive will have special microfiche readers,
0:13:25 > 0:13:28and you can look at pages on a screen.
0:13:28 > 0:13:31Other times, you'll be looking through original newspapers.
0:13:31 > 0:13:34Using them can be much harder than looking online,
0:13:34 > 0:13:36because sometimes you can't search by name.
0:13:36 > 0:13:39You'll just have to look at the copies of actual newspapers
0:13:39 > 0:13:42themselves around the dates which you believe are relevant.
0:13:42 > 0:13:45That can take a lot of time, BUT it can be really exciting
0:13:45 > 0:13:47when you find the information you need.
0:13:47 > 0:13:50(Thomas Andrews, yes!)
0:13:50 > 0:13:53National and local newspapers can be a great way of finding out
0:13:53 > 0:13:57what people thought about something at the time it happened.
0:13:57 > 0:13:58But you have to be careful.
0:13:58 > 0:14:02They can be biased, and they can even be wrong, because sometimes,
0:14:02 > 0:14:05they were printed before the full facts were known.
0:14:05 > 0:14:08But as long as you realise that, looking at old newspapers
0:14:08 > 0:14:11can be very rewarding, and can also be great fun.
0:14:17 > 0:14:20I'm Joe Crowley and this is History Hunt,
0:14:20 > 0:14:24where children like you investigate exciting stuff from the past.
0:14:26 > 0:14:27'Big stuff.'
0:14:27 > 0:14:30- Incredible, isn't it? - Wow.- It's massive.
0:14:30 > 0:14:31Surprising stuff.
0:14:33 > 0:14:34Clever stuff.
0:14:34 > 0:14:38The clues are everywhere, if you know where to look.
0:14:38 > 0:14:41And finding them is fun.
0:14:56 > 0:14:59'Today's History Hunters are on the trail of a local link
0:14:59 > 0:15:02'to one of the world's biggest ever sea disasters.
0:15:02 > 0:15:07'The sinking of Titanic was a tragedy, but was this man to blame?'
0:15:09 > 0:15:14This is Comber, a small town near Belfast in Northern Ireland.
0:15:14 > 0:15:17And this is Thomas Andrews Memorial Hall.
0:15:17 > 0:15:19But just who was Thomas Andrews?
0:15:21 > 0:15:26'This is Craig, Natalia, Courtney and Joshua.
0:15:26 > 0:15:28'They're here to help me on today's History Hunt.
0:15:28 > 0:15:31'We're going to search for clues that will help us
0:15:31 > 0:15:35'to reveal the full story of Thomas Andrews and his life.'
0:15:35 > 0:15:37I've done a bit of research and found this blue plaque.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40D'you want to read that out for me, Natalia?
0:15:40 > 0:15:46"Thomas Andrews, 1873-1912, designer of the Titanic, lived here."
0:15:46 > 0:15:48We all know what the Titanic was, right?
0:15:48 > 0:15:51- A ship?- Exactly. And what did people say about that ship?
0:15:51 > 0:15:54- They said it was unsinkable. - What actually happened to the ship?
0:15:54 > 0:15:56- It sank.- It sank, right.
0:15:56 > 0:15:59So, d'you think Thomas Andrews could have been to blame
0:15:59 > 0:16:00if he was the designer?
0:16:00 > 0:16:02He was probably the one who said it was unsinkable.
0:16:02 > 0:16:05Right. Where could we find out more about him?
0:16:05 > 0:16:09Television, yeah. News? Yeah, newspapers, yeah?
0:16:09 > 0:16:11So, what I think we should do is head
0:16:11 > 0:16:14to the archives in Belfast, right. And why Belfast?
0:16:14 > 0:16:17- Cos Titanic was built in Belfast. - Everyone happy?
0:16:17 > 0:16:19- ALL: Yeah. - Right, come on then. Let's go.
0:16:22 > 0:16:25'Archives are places where historical records are kept.
0:16:25 > 0:16:29'Belfast archives are full of Titanic material.
0:16:29 > 0:16:31'It's one of the most famous stories in history,
0:16:31 > 0:16:35'and it started in this city, where the ship was built.
0:16:35 > 0:16:38'The children already know a lot about Titanic.
0:16:38 > 0:16:41'Her launch in 1912 and the tragedy of the sinking
0:16:41 > 0:16:44'when she hit an iceberg are world famous.
0:16:44 > 0:16:47'The big story has been told many times.
0:16:47 > 0:16:50'But their job is to dig deeper and find out about the connections
0:16:50 > 0:16:53'with a man who came from their own town.
0:16:53 > 0:16:57'The first job is to find a picture of Thomas Andrews.'
0:16:57 > 0:16:59Thomas Andrews, Thomas Andrews. Oh, yes.
0:16:59 > 0:17:02BOTH: "Mr Thomas Andrews.
0:17:02 > 0:17:04"Managing Director of Messrs Harland & Wolff,
0:17:04 > 0:17:07"a victim of the Titanic disaster, April 1912."
0:17:07 > 0:17:10The girls then find casualty figures...
0:17:10 > 0:17:15No, look. "Total passengers and crew.
0:17:15 > 0:17:18"Men that were carried, 1,662."
0:17:18 > 0:17:21..And an obituary of Thomas Andrews,
0:17:21 > 0:17:24which revealed he worked hard, and had a kind heart.
0:17:24 > 0:17:27BOTH: "This man could find time every night
0:17:27 > 0:17:29"to telephone his mother."
0:17:29 > 0:17:34He's a hard-working man, and he still remembers about other people, and...
0:17:34 > 0:17:35He finds time to ring his mum.
0:17:35 > 0:17:37I think he sounds like a nice man, yeah.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40The girls also discovered pictures of Titanic,
0:17:40 > 0:17:42which showed what a huge ship it was.
0:17:42 > 0:17:48While they make copies for me to look at, I give the boys their task.
0:17:48 > 0:17:50Back then, people could go to the cinema and watch newsreels.
0:17:50 > 0:17:52I think there's an archive online.
0:17:52 > 0:17:54Search through them, have a look
0:17:54 > 0:17:56and see if you can find any moving images, OK?
0:17:56 > 0:17:58OK. Titanic...
0:17:58 > 0:18:00There's plenty of general footage,
0:18:00 > 0:18:03but nothing specific on Thomas Andrews.
0:18:03 > 0:18:06BOTH: "The Titanic leaving Belfast Lough for Southampton."
0:18:06 > 0:18:10- Oh, Captain J Smith. - On the bridge. He looks worried.
0:18:10 > 0:18:14- "Sole survivors of the Titanic's crew."- Not that many.
0:18:14 > 0:18:17BOTH: "Reporters interviewing survivors."
0:18:17 > 0:18:19I don't see why the survivors want to talk about it.
0:18:19 > 0:18:21Imagine how quickly it would have spread.
0:18:23 > 0:18:26It's been an interesting and exciting morning.
0:18:26 > 0:18:28I meet up with the teams again
0:18:28 > 0:18:31at part of Belfast's historical heritage,
0:18:31 > 0:18:34the Dry Dock, where Titanic had her propellers fitted.
0:18:34 > 0:18:37Boys, from looking at that footage, what did you find out?
0:18:37 > 0:18:41It was huge, and all the people were that size compared to the Titanic.
0:18:41 > 0:18:45- What did you find out from the documents?- 2,206 people
0:18:45 > 0:18:49- were on board Titanic. - How many survived?- 703 survived.
0:18:49 > 0:18:53I've also done a bit of research. This is a survey of the ship itself,
0:18:53 > 0:18:54and down here it says,
0:18:54 > 0:18:58"Lifesaving appliances." What d'you think "lifesaving appliances" are?
0:18:58 > 0:19:00- Lifeboats?- Exactly.
0:19:00 > 0:19:05Now, if you add up these numbers, you get to a grand total of 1,178.
0:19:05 > 0:19:10- So, what's clear from that?- There wasn't enough lifeboats.- Yeah, OK.
0:19:10 > 0:19:13So now I think we need to find out a bit more about Thomas Andrews
0:19:13 > 0:19:16and the design of the ship. Was the design dangerous?
0:19:16 > 0:19:18- Who could we speak to? - People who make them?
0:19:18 > 0:19:20Yeah. What were you going to say?
0:19:20 > 0:19:22- Safety inspectors? - Safety inspectors.
0:19:22 > 0:19:23I want you to meet the relative
0:19:23 > 0:19:26of someone who actually worked on the Titanic,
0:19:26 > 0:19:28who helped build the ship right here in Belfast.
0:19:28 > 0:19:31And guys, I want you to meet a ship designer,
0:19:31 > 0:19:34and I want you to get his impression of the design
0:19:34 > 0:19:36and whether it was dangerous or not, OK?
0:19:36 > 0:19:39- Everyone clear on what they're doing?- ALL: Yeah.
0:19:41 > 0:19:43The girls meet with Susie Millar.
0:19:43 > 0:19:47Her great-grandfather helped build Titanic.
0:19:47 > 0:19:51His name was Tommy Millar and in 1912, he was 33.
0:19:51 > 0:19:56He worked here and helped put the engines into Titanic,
0:19:56 > 0:19:58and then he decided that he was going to sail on the ship,
0:19:58 > 0:20:01so he was actually one of the crew of Titanic.
0:20:01 > 0:20:06- So, did he survive on the Titanic? - I'm afraid to tell you that he died.
0:20:06 > 0:20:10Being one of the crew, he would have had to stay at his post
0:20:10 > 0:20:11until the bitter end.
0:20:11 > 0:20:14That's a picture of him there. We only have two pictures of him,
0:20:14 > 0:20:17but that's one and there's the other one.
0:20:17 > 0:20:20He was working 11-hour days.
0:20:20 > 0:20:23He started at half past six in the morning.
0:20:23 > 0:20:25Did your great-grandfather have any kids on board?
0:20:25 > 0:20:27He left his two boys behind.
0:20:27 > 0:20:30My grandfather was only five in 1912,
0:20:30 > 0:20:35and he actually said goodbye to them here, where we're standing now.
0:20:35 > 0:20:38And he thought he would see them again in a few months' time,
0:20:38 > 0:20:40they were going to follow him out to America.
0:20:40 > 0:20:42And when he was saying goodbye to them, he said,
0:20:42 > 0:20:47"I want you both to have two pennies," just like these,
0:20:47 > 0:20:50"and I don't want you to spend those until we're all together again."
0:20:50 > 0:20:54And he never did. He kept them all of his life.
0:20:54 > 0:20:57The girls find out that Susie's grandfather knew Thomas Andrews,
0:20:57 > 0:21:00who actually recommended him for a job
0:21:00 > 0:21:02with the company that owned the ship.
0:21:02 > 0:21:05So he actually got him the job on Titanic.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08Did people like Thomas Andrews and was he hard-working?
0:21:08 > 0:21:12I think Thomas Andrews worked even harder than my great-grandfather,
0:21:12 > 0:21:14because if he started at half past six,
0:21:14 > 0:21:17Thomas Andrews was reported to be in from four o'clock in the morning.
0:21:17 > 0:21:20He knew he had to get this project right, it was his first big project.
0:21:20 > 0:21:23But everybody says that he was a very fair man.
0:21:23 > 0:21:25There's a picture of him with his daughter
0:21:25 > 0:21:29and she was just 16 months old when her father sailed away.
0:21:29 > 0:21:33- And that's his wife, Nelly.- How did the Titanic affect your family?
0:21:33 > 0:21:36It's still something we look back on and we're a bit sad about
0:21:36 > 0:21:40and, you know, I go to the Titanic Memorial sometimes
0:21:40 > 0:21:42and look up at his name and think about how
0:21:42 > 0:21:47the course of all our lives changed because of what happened to Titanic.
0:21:47 > 0:21:51Meanwhile, the boys are at the old offices of Harland & Wolff,
0:21:51 > 0:21:53the firm that built Titanic.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55They're with David Livingstone.
0:21:55 > 0:21:58He's a naval architect who's an expert on Titanic.
0:21:58 > 0:22:02He explains the ship was designed to withstand a lot of damage.
0:22:02 > 0:22:04They had a double bottom.
0:22:04 > 0:22:08They had an inner skin here so that, if it got holes on the bottom,
0:22:08 > 0:22:10it wouldn't flood.
0:22:10 > 0:22:12The ship was also split into compartments,
0:22:12 > 0:22:15using watertight walls called bulkheads.
0:22:15 > 0:22:17Titanic was designed to cope
0:22:17 > 0:22:19with two of these bulkheads being damaged.
0:22:19 > 0:22:24When the ship scraped along the side of the iceberg,
0:22:24 > 0:22:30it had one, two, three, four and maybe five compartments damaged.
0:22:30 > 0:22:33And as soon as she got that type of damage, she was going to sink.
0:22:33 > 0:22:38No naval architect ever said the ship was unsinkable. Who said it?
0:22:38 > 0:22:41- Was it the newspapers?- Yes.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44They were the ones who said it was unsinkable.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47David also explains why there weren't enough lifeboats
0:22:47 > 0:22:49for everyone onboard.
0:22:49 > 0:22:54At that time, they were developing a theory that it would be better
0:22:54 > 0:22:58if they made the ship to be its own lifeboat,
0:22:58 > 0:23:02that the ship would survive a certain degree of damage
0:23:02 > 0:23:06and the number of lifeboats were more than what was required
0:23:06 > 0:23:07by the regulations,
0:23:07 > 0:23:12so they believed that they didn't need lifeboats for everyone.
0:23:12 > 0:23:14However, they were wrong.
0:23:14 > 0:23:17Does Thomas Andrews deserve to have his own memorial hall in Comber?
0:23:17 > 0:23:22He didn't do anything wrong, so yes, as an engineer and as a man,
0:23:22 > 0:23:24he deserves his recognition.
0:23:24 > 0:23:28When the ship was damaged, he refused to leave the ship.
0:23:28 > 0:23:30So, he went down with the ship.
0:23:32 > 0:23:36Our teams now have a real sense of the scale of the disaster,
0:23:36 > 0:23:40the way families were affected and, above all, of Thomas Andrews
0:23:40 > 0:23:44and how well-respected he was as a ship designer.
0:23:44 > 0:23:45Was it an unsafe design?
0:23:45 > 0:23:50No, it wasn't, because he put more bulkheads.
0:23:50 > 0:23:52It could still float if water got in.
0:23:52 > 0:23:56- D'you think it's fair to blame Thomas Andrews?- No, not now.
0:23:56 > 0:24:02I thought it would be Thomas Andrews' fault, but no, not now.
0:24:02 > 0:24:06And finally, everyone says, "The Titanic, the unsinkable ship."
0:24:06 > 0:24:08Did Thomas Andrews call it unsinkable?
0:24:08 > 0:24:13- No, it was the newspapers and the media.- Just shows, doesn't it?
0:24:13 > 0:24:16If you scratch under the surface, you can show that it was a myth.
0:24:16 > 0:24:18First-class history hunting. Well done.
0:24:18 > 0:24:21You'd think Thomas Andrews would be the villain of the piece,
0:24:21 > 0:24:25the man who designed the unsinkable ship that sank and yet,
0:24:25 > 0:24:29there's far more to this story, as our History Hunters have found out.
0:24:29 > 0:24:32He was a brilliant shipbuilder, in charge of the biggest project
0:24:32 > 0:24:35of the day, quite possibly designed right here
0:24:35 > 0:24:37in Harland & Wolff's old drawing offices.
0:24:37 > 0:24:40The ship didn't sink because of his mistakes,
0:24:40 > 0:24:44yet he took responsibility by going down with the vessel.
0:24:44 > 0:24:49So it's no surprise then, his name is still honoured in Comber,
0:24:49 > 0:24:50and this is his story.
0:24:54 > 0:24:57Thomas Andrews came from a well-known and distinguished family
0:24:57 > 0:25:01in Comber, close to Belfast in Northern Ireland.
0:25:01 > 0:25:02He was fascinated by boats
0:25:02 > 0:25:07and apprentice to the shipbuilders Harland & Wolff at the age of 16.
0:25:07 > 0:25:09He worked his way up through the company,
0:25:09 > 0:25:12and by his early 20s, he was Harland & Wolff's managing director.
0:25:12 > 0:25:16In 1907, he was given the biggest job of his career,
0:25:16 > 0:25:19to design the largest ships ever built,
0:25:19 > 0:25:22Titanic, Olympic and Britannic.
0:25:22 > 0:25:24It was a massive task.
0:25:24 > 0:25:26These were huge ships,
0:25:26 > 0:25:29and it was something the whole of Belfast was proud of.
0:25:29 > 0:25:34When my grandfather saw the ship, he described it as "a wall of steel."
0:25:34 > 0:25:36Andrews designed as safe a ship as he could,
0:25:36 > 0:25:39based on a study of previous sinkings.
0:25:39 > 0:25:43Titanic and her sister ships were divided into compartments.
0:25:43 > 0:25:46They could cope with two compartments being flooded.
0:25:46 > 0:25:47Any more, and they'd sink.
0:25:47 > 0:25:51Thomas Andrews never actually claimed they were unsinkable.
0:25:51 > 0:25:53There weren't enough lifeboats for every passenger,
0:25:53 > 0:25:56but more than the legal requirements.
0:25:56 > 0:25:58Many people saw lifeboats as unsafe.
0:25:58 > 0:26:02The priority was to make the ship itself safe.
0:26:02 > 0:26:06Naval architects had recognised that putting people into lifeboats
0:26:06 > 0:26:09was very dangerous, and still is today.
0:26:09 > 0:26:13However, on her maiden voyage in 1912, Titanic hit an iceberg
0:26:13 > 0:26:16and sustained damage she couldn't cope with.
0:26:16 > 0:26:20Up to five compartments were flooded. The ship sank.
0:26:20 > 0:26:24Of more than 2,200 passengers and crew on board,
0:26:24 > 0:26:27over 1,500 lost their lives.
0:26:27 > 0:26:31Thomas Andrews went down with the mighty ship he designed.
0:26:31 > 0:26:34Thomas Andrews is fondly remembered in Comber,
0:26:34 > 0:26:38and the Memorial Hall is a well-loved tribute to him.
0:26:42 > 0:26:45The children who researched Titanic
0:26:45 > 0:26:47and Thomas Andrews made real breakthroughs
0:26:47 > 0:26:51when they interviewed people who really knew about this story.
0:26:51 > 0:26:53Here's a guide on how to get the best out of people
0:26:53 > 0:26:55when asking them questions.
0:26:55 > 0:26:59Family members or friends of figures from history often have photographs
0:26:59 > 0:27:02or objects that used to belong to the people you're investigating.
0:27:02 > 0:27:06Ask them to bring anything like this along to a meeting,
0:27:06 > 0:27:07or if you're going to see THEM,
0:27:07 > 0:27:10tell them to have a good look for anything that could be useful.
0:27:10 > 0:27:12It's best to ask them in advance,
0:27:12 > 0:27:15as then they'll have time to get things ready for you.
0:27:15 > 0:27:17And if you can, take copies in some way,
0:27:17 > 0:27:20then you can look at them in detail afterwards.
0:27:20 > 0:27:24It's not just what you ask, it's HOW you ask it that's important too.
0:27:24 > 0:27:27Good interviewers use open questions.
0:27:27 > 0:27:29Things like, "Tell me what your grandfather was like,"
0:27:29 > 0:27:32or, "How did he invent that?"
0:27:32 > 0:27:34Poor interviewers use closed questions.
0:27:34 > 0:27:37Things that just call for a yes or no answer.
0:27:37 > 0:27:40Ask these type of questions and you won't find out much.
0:27:40 > 0:27:43How did the Titanic sink and how did it affect your family?
0:27:43 > 0:27:46It's also vitally important that you listen carefully.
0:27:46 > 0:27:49They might tell you something you didn't expect,
0:27:49 > 0:27:52so you can ask a follow-up question that will get you more information.
0:27:52 > 0:27:54So, tell me a bit more about the photograph.
0:27:54 > 0:27:59This photograph showed, really, what the structure of the DNA was.
0:27:59 > 0:28:01And always remember that people are often biased
0:28:01 > 0:28:03when they're talking about friends or relatives.
0:28:03 > 0:28:07They might exaggerate their importance or hide their faults.
0:28:07 > 0:28:11But what happened was, somebody showed it to Crick and Watson,
0:28:11 > 0:28:14and that's what they used to do their discovering.
0:28:14 > 0:28:17It's up to you as historians to work out what you need to check up on,
0:28:17 > 0:28:19by using methods such as talking to other people
0:28:19 > 0:28:22or looking at documents in archives.
0:28:22 > 0:28:23If we bear all that in mind,
0:28:23 > 0:28:26speaking to people who knew historical figures
0:28:26 > 0:28:28can be a great way of finding out things
0:28:28 > 0:28:30that are otherwise really hard to discover.
0:28:30 > 0:28:33And they can provide photos and details that give us
0:28:33 > 0:28:36an insight into what a person was really like.
0:28:43 > 0:28:45Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd