0:00:26 > 0:00:29He was born Graham Walker, but the slight hint of naughtiness
0:00:29 > 0:00:34in his chosen stage name has proved to be highly appropriate.
0:00:34 > 0:00:37Beginning as a holiday relief presenter on the Jack Docherty show,
0:00:37 > 0:00:40Graham Norton rapidly overshadowed the incumbent,
0:00:40 > 0:00:43becoming a sort of dirtier but equally perky version
0:00:43 > 0:00:45of Terry Wogan,
0:00:45 > 0:00:49and was soon hosting a talk show every weekday night on Channel 4.
0:00:49 > 0:00:52He now occupies the slots vacated on BBC One and Radio Two
0:00:52 > 0:00:54by Jonathan Ross,
0:00:54 > 0:00:57and established an entertaining presentational duet
0:00:57 > 0:01:00with Andrew Lloyd Webber in theatrical audition shows.
0:01:02 > 0:01:04Part of the purpose of this interview
0:01:04 > 0:01:06is to go back into your background.
0:01:06 > 0:01:08Now, you're part of a relatively small group of people
0:01:08 > 0:01:11who know a great deal about your background,
0:01:11 > 0:01:14because you took part in Who Do You Think You Are?
0:01:14 > 0:01:17I wondered where you were going with that. I was like, "What?"
0:01:17 > 0:01:19No, "Who Do You Think You Are?"
0:01:19 > 0:01:21I'm just interested, most people don't know very much
0:01:21 > 0:01:23unless they do amateur genealogy stuff.
0:01:23 > 0:01:28That experience, knowing that much more about where you come from,
0:01:28 > 0:01:30is it useful or did it change you?
0:01:30 > 0:01:31Er...
0:01:33 > 0:01:36Not... I found it interesting.
0:01:36 > 0:01:41What I didn't have was a real emotional connect with those stories.
0:01:41 > 0:01:44- They really want you to cry on camera.- Oh, they want you to cry!
0:01:44 > 0:01:45They...
0:01:45 > 0:01:48..endless filming.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50Just rubbish questions.
0:01:50 > 0:01:52"Will he cry eventually?"
0:01:52 > 0:01:55It got to a point about halfway through where I just thought,
0:01:55 > 0:01:59"You know what, I'm not going to cry."
0:01:59 > 0:02:03Then there was a moment in Leeds where I was holding these documents
0:02:03 > 0:02:06that went back to 1690, or something,
0:02:06 > 0:02:11and it wasn't so much my family's connection with those documents,
0:02:11 > 0:02:15it was just holding something which was written by a human hand
0:02:15 > 0:02:17that long ago, which was sort of moving,
0:02:17 > 0:02:20and if I had bothered I am sure I could have squeezed a tear out.
0:02:20 > 0:02:24But, no, I did not. I resisted.
0:02:24 > 0:02:26The fear of a lot of Scottish and Irish people, I think,
0:02:26 > 0:02:29is that they'll discover they really come from Dagenham.
0:02:29 > 0:02:30But, perhaps to your relief,
0:02:30 > 0:02:32you discovered you are tremendously Irish.
0:02:32 > 0:02:34We are tremendously Irish,
0:02:34 > 0:02:37but when you went back to 16-blah-blah-blah,
0:02:37 > 0:02:40we are from Yorkshire. Eventually.
0:02:40 > 0:02:41Which I sort of knew,
0:02:41 > 0:02:45because we were Protestants from Southern Ireland.
0:02:45 > 0:02:50Er, but do I feel Yorkshire? No. Absolutely not.
0:02:50 > 0:02:53You've got to give some credit,
0:02:53 > 0:02:56we've lived in Ireland for a long time!
0:02:56 > 0:02:57Let us be Irish.
0:02:57 > 0:03:05So, I found it interesting, but not that...engaging, in a way.
0:03:05 > 0:03:10I suppose what's happened in Ireland is so much changed so fast
0:03:10 > 0:03:12in the '50s and '60s,
0:03:12 > 0:03:17it's like somebody built a trench between us and the past.
0:03:17 > 0:03:21It's really hard to imagine that in a lifetime
0:03:21 > 0:03:24people were living like that,
0:03:24 > 0:03:29and now everyone has central heating and lots of channels.
0:03:29 > 0:03:32I was very interested in your memoir, So Me.
0:03:32 > 0:03:37Barely five per cent is about your childhood,
0:03:37 > 0:03:40whereas Paul O'Grady, for example,
0:03:40 > 0:03:42wrote a whole book about his childhood.
0:03:42 > 0:03:44Was that a policy decision?
0:03:44 > 0:03:48That it was boring or sensitive, that kind of material?
0:03:48 > 0:03:50It wasn't that it was sensitive.
0:03:50 > 0:03:54Of course, now that I see people bringing out multiple volumes of the things, I feel like an idiot.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00So, I shot my wad in one book, I'm a fool!
0:04:00 > 0:04:05But, no, my childhood, I didn't find it interesting at the time.
0:04:05 > 0:04:07So, looking back...
0:04:08 > 0:04:14..I started finding my life engaging when I was about 16.
0:04:14 > 0:04:18When I started having experiences outside of Ireland.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20That's when I, sort of, came alive.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23That's the amazing thing, I was quite thrilled by this,
0:04:23 > 0:04:26you dispense with almost a decade in one sentence in the book.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29"It was in Bandon that I spent my teenage years,
0:04:29 > 0:04:31"mostly watching TV and reading."
0:04:31 > 0:04:34And that's it. That's your adolescence gone.
0:04:34 > 0:04:40Honestly, because I went back to my school recently, to do a prize day,
0:04:40 > 0:04:45and, I thought, clearly your job on these occasions
0:04:45 > 0:04:51is to tell amusing stories about your time spent at the school.
0:04:51 > 0:04:52Not one.
0:04:52 > 0:04:59I really couldn't think of anything funny that had happened during six years. That's a long time.
0:04:59 > 0:05:05I could remember a couple of stories about other people, but not me.
0:05:05 > 0:05:08I really felt like I was just biding my time.
0:05:08 > 0:05:11That's a story about how Ireland has changed, I think.
0:05:11 > 0:05:13I'm now going to invade your privacy,
0:05:13 > 0:05:16but we happened to be in the same make-up room once,
0:05:16 > 0:05:18when you took a phone call from the school,
0:05:18 > 0:05:21asking you to come and do the prize-giving.
0:05:21 > 0:05:23That was that day! How weird.
0:05:23 > 0:05:26But, you came off the phone and said they had specifically asked you
0:05:26 > 0:05:29if you could address the question of being gay,
0:05:29 > 0:05:32because they were worried they had people who were worried about it.
0:05:32 > 0:05:34And I would never have guessed that,
0:05:34 > 0:05:38I would still associate Ireland with being nervous of that.
0:05:38 > 0:05:43I think in a way, they maybe thought that I wanted to talk about it.
0:05:43 > 0:05:49That was the weird thing, whether we were dancing in a circle.
0:05:49 > 0:05:51Certainly, when I did do the Prize Day,
0:05:51 > 0:05:57there were pupils there who were openly gay.
0:05:57 > 0:06:00Which, yeah, I'm with you, that surprised the hell out of me.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03I wouldn't fancy my chances.
0:06:03 > 0:06:04But, they were.
0:06:04 > 0:06:09There were some recent past pupils and they were openly gay.
0:06:09 > 0:06:16Ireland has changed so much compared to the Ireland I left when I was 20.
0:06:16 > 0:06:19If, when I was 20, you'd said,
0:06:19 > 0:06:22"Oh, would you like to spend time in this country?"
0:06:22 > 0:06:24I would have gone, "No, I refer you to my ticket and passport.
0:06:24 > 0:06:26"I am leaving!"
0:06:26 > 0:06:30Now, I spend at least two months every year there.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33And that experience, which is quite rare,
0:06:33 > 0:06:37of being a Protestant in Southern Ireland, to an outsider
0:06:37 > 0:06:38it does seem peculiar.
0:06:38 > 0:06:41But, did you feel isolated for that reason?
0:06:41 > 0:06:44You do, or, at least, I did.
0:06:44 > 0:06:49Because it's that odd thing, we often lived in the country.
0:06:49 > 0:06:52We moved around a lot, we had about 13 different houses when I was a kid.
0:06:52 > 0:06:54Sometimes we lived in the country,
0:06:54 > 0:06:57so there was an isolation inherent in that.
0:06:57 > 0:07:01There weren't other kids to play with, that was it.
0:07:01 > 0:07:04It was just me and a stick, wandering around.
0:07:04 > 0:07:07Er, but even if we lived in a little town, or something,
0:07:07 > 0:07:10with other houses, I didn't know those children.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13I remember we moved to Bandon the first time
0:07:13 > 0:07:15and it was during the summer holidays.
0:07:15 > 0:07:17And it was amazing, I played with all of these kids,
0:07:17 > 0:07:19I got invited to birthday parties.
0:07:19 > 0:07:22It was great, and then, come September,
0:07:22 > 0:07:25there was much excitement about going to school,
0:07:25 > 0:07:29and it was revealed that I would not be going to their school.
0:07:29 > 0:07:32- Never really saw them again.- Hmm.
0:07:32 > 0:07:34That was, kind of, the end of it.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37We all recognised that we were different,
0:07:37 > 0:07:41and that's what would happen now.
0:07:42 > 0:07:46And I think there was a slight under-siege mentality
0:07:46 > 0:07:48in the Protestant community.
0:07:48 > 0:07:53Because if you married outside of your faith,
0:07:54 > 0:07:58there was real pressure for the kids to be brought up Catholic,
0:07:58 > 0:08:00priests would make people convert
0:08:00 > 0:08:03and there was a terrible Bishop at the time in Cork.
0:08:03 > 0:08:09So, there was a real sense of being,
0:08:09 > 0:08:10sort of...
0:08:12 > 0:08:14..shepherded together.
0:08:14 > 0:08:16You had to go to these special Protestant hops
0:08:16 > 0:08:18or Protestant socials.
0:08:18 > 0:08:21The idea was that you met a nice Protestant girl
0:08:21 > 0:08:24and you'd have some Protestant babies.
0:08:24 > 0:08:25And that was great.
0:08:25 > 0:08:28I mean, how you could ever compete with a Catholic nation, I don't know.
0:08:28 > 0:08:31But they were making an effort.
0:08:31 > 0:08:35I think my sister, she got engaged to a Methodist
0:08:35 > 0:08:40and even that was, you know, "Oh, well, it'll do!"
0:08:40 > 0:08:43There's another little conversation alluded to in the book,
0:08:43 > 0:08:45which is that when you say in an interview later on
0:08:45 > 0:08:47that you're gay and Irish.
0:08:47 > 0:08:51Your mother says, "I thought we weren't going to talk about that."
0:08:51 > 0:08:54Because the deal was that she knew but your dad wasn't supposed to.
0:08:54 > 0:08:58Well, the deal was no one talked about it.
0:08:58 > 0:09:00So, when I did say something,
0:09:00 > 0:09:02actually it wasn't even in an interview,
0:09:02 > 0:09:04it was on TV.
0:09:04 > 0:09:08It's so bad. It was on TV, I said something about being gay.
0:09:08 > 0:09:11And then, you know, that weekend I was talking to my mum,
0:09:11 > 0:09:14and I could tell there was a slight froideur on the phone.
0:09:14 > 0:09:18I was like, "Is everything all right?" "No." "No? What's wrong?"
0:09:18 > 0:09:20She said this thing...
0:09:20 > 0:09:24"It would have been nice if you'd told us first."
0:09:25 > 0:09:26And that's where I said,
0:09:26 > 0:09:29"But you specifically told me not to tell you."
0:09:29 > 0:09:31Because she had sent my sister,
0:09:31 > 0:09:34I went home with a boyfriend once, I got off the train,
0:09:34 > 0:09:39and my sister was there to meet us, and I thought, "That's odd."
0:09:39 > 0:09:45My poor sister, driving us back, had to do this thing of,
0:09:45 > 0:09:47"A message from your mother.
0:09:47 > 0:09:49"You're not to upset your father."
0:09:50 > 0:09:55So, obviously, my mother thought this was me coming home to come out.
0:09:55 > 0:09:58This was my big reveal weekend.
0:09:58 > 0:10:00It hadn't really crossed my mind.
0:10:00 > 0:10:03But this was the message, don't upset your father.
0:10:03 > 0:10:07I took that to mean, "Don't say anything." So, I didn't.
0:10:07 > 0:10:13And so my mother said der-de-der, and I said, "Well, was Dad upset?"
0:10:13 > 0:10:16And, she goes, "Well, it turned out he knew."
0:10:16 > 0:10:21It was incredible to me that this couple had never talked about it.
0:10:21 > 0:10:24It had obviously never been discussed.
0:10:24 > 0:10:28And as we know, and you've reflected on and talked and so on,
0:10:28 > 0:10:33It was in agony, even now for some young men and women growing up,
0:10:33 > 0:10:36it's an agony when they discover that they're gay.
0:10:36 > 0:10:39Did you've any of that or was it fairly straightforward?
0:10:39 > 0:10:41No, I remember not wanting to be,
0:10:41 > 0:10:43I remember, you know...
0:10:44 > 0:10:46..being afraid that I was.
0:10:46 > 0:10:51But, you know, hoping it was a phase.
0:10:51 > 0:10:55Or, hanging onto the bisexual tag for a while.
0:10:55 > 0:11:01It's a long time, and this makes me sound like Grandfather Time,
0:11:01 > 0:11:05but you do worry for kids now that, in a way,
0:11:05 > 0:11:08they're in such a rush to decide.
0:11:08 > 0:11:10That they're not allowed to have a phase,
0:11:10 > 0:11:11they're not allowed be bisexual.
0:11:11 > 0:11:14Suddenly they're gay.
0:11:14 > 0:11:18I think maybe it's a longer process than that.
0:11:18 > 0:11:22There are more stops along the way than just deciding boldly
0:11:22 > 0:11:24in one fell swoop.
0:11:24 > 0:11:28A lot of the people I meet who grew up in Ireland at the time you did,
0:11:28 > 0:11:30or certainly the period before that,
0:11:30 > 0:11:33there was this sense of, true of Australia at the time as well,
0:11:33 > 0:11:36of having to get away if you were going to do anything.
0:11:36 > 0:11:40- Did you have that? - Absolutely, I wanted to get out.
0:11:40 > 0:11:43It felt like I didn't have options, really.
0:11:43 > 0:11:46The sort of things I wanted to do, I didn't know how to do them there.
0:11:48 > 0:11:50There were no drama schools.
0:11:50 > 0:11:55I did apply to a school of journalism but didn't get in.
0:11:55 > 0:11:59Leaving seemed easier than staying. So that's what I did.
0:11:59 > 0:12:06Watching TV, which was my window on the world, we had British television.
0:12:06 > 0:12:09England looked a bit like Ireland, I noticed.
0:12:09 > 0:12:14In the New Avengers, it had hedgerows and that sort of stuff.
0:12:14 > 0:12:20America just seemed thrilling, so, when I did get my ticket and get out,
0:12:20 > 0:12:22America was my first port of call,
0:12:22 > 0:12:24that's where I felt much more drawn to.
0:12:24 > 0:12:28Also, it just seemed bigger and more exciting.
0:12:28 > 0:12:31The decision to go into showbiz, first acting,
0:12:31 > 0:12:32there had been hints at school.
0:12:32 > 0:12:37You discovered at school that you enjoyed drama more than rugby.
0:12:37 > 0:12:39Yes, I would say.
0:12:39 > 0:12:44Our school was a very odd school in that it was obsessed by sport.
0:12:44 > 0:12:47The whole curriculum was geared around sports,
0:12:47 > 0:12:49everything, talked about sports.
0:12:49 > 0:12:54If you were good at sports, great. Overall, our school was USELESS.
0:12:54 > 0:12:56They won NOTHING.
0:12:56 > 0:13:00They were terrible at it, and yet it had this huge importance,
0:13:00 > 0:13:02apparently it's all changed now, Mark,
0:13:02 > 0:13:04and they're very good at sports.
0:13:04 > 0:13:06They win things. It's all come good.
0:13:08 > 0:13:11But, yes, a particular teacher, a couple of teachers,
0:13:11 > 0:13:14as always it's the English teacher who draws you out of yourself.
0:13:14 > 0:13:19And I did some drama there, and enjoyed it.
0:13:21 > 0:13:25I knew that was something I wanted to pursue.
0:13:25 > 0:13:29So the decision to actually go and try to go to drama school,
0:13:29 > 0:13:31that came out of San Francisco, did it?
0:13:31 > 0:13:36Yes, that was a wonderful year of living in this hippie commune.
0:13:36 > 0:13:42Which all sounds, er, like it should be funnier than it was.
0:13:42 > 0:13:44But, it's a funny idea,
0:13:44 > 0:13:49but once you are actually doing it it's just shared housing.
0:13:49 > 0:13:53We'd have called it a big flatshare. They called it a hippie commune.
0:13:53 > 0:13:56It's really just sharing expenses and not having home ownership.
0:13:56 > 0:14:01What was fantastic, because I was 20, but from Ireland,
0:14:01 > 0:14:04that makes you an international 13.
0:14:04 > 0:14:09A real conservative, with a small c.
0:14:09 > 0:14:14Everything was stupid, "Well, that's just crazy, that's mad."
0:14:14 > 0:14:17It was wonderful for me to meet these people
0:14:17 > 0:14:22who did open me up to other ways of thinking and looking at the world.
0:14:22 > 0:14:26I remember meeting this woman, Erica,
0:14:26 > 0:14:30she was there and must have been 40, and she was training to be a nurse.
0:14:31 > 0:14:34I remember thinking, "How tragic is that?
0:14:34 > 0:14:37"That that sad old woman would be bothering to learn how to do
0:14:37 > 0:14:40"anything at this point in her life."
0:14:40 > 0:14:47I must have, in some way, said this to her. I hope I phrased it kindly.
0:14:47 > 0:14:52And she pointed out to me that when she qualified,
0:14:52 > 0:14:55that, if she worked as a nurse till she retired,
0:14:55 > 0:14:58she'd have been doing it for 25 years,
0:14:58 > 0:15:01which, of course, was longer than I had been alive.
0:15:01 > 0:15:04It was longer than I could imagine doing anything for.
0:15:04 > 0:15:07And it was a bit of a "eureka" moment.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10I suddenly realised I had time.
0:15:10 > 0:15:15I had time to actually go down the wrong path,
0:15:15 > 0:15:16I had time to make mistakes,
0:15:16 > 0:15:20to do things that weren't going to go anywhere.
0:15:20 > 0:15:25That kind of gave me the freedom to go back to Britain
0:15:25 > 0:15:27and at least try to go to drama school.
0:15:27 > 0:15:31And if I didn't get in then I'd think again,
0:15:31 > 0:15:34and if I did get in then I'd take it that step further.
0:15:34 > 0:15:40I think that's a really important lesson for everyone to learn.
0:15:40 > 0:15:42There's more time than you think there is.
0:15:42 > 0:15:46Now if Graham's mum could just go and make a cup of tea,
0:15:46 > 0:15:49we're going to discuss the afternoon as a rent boy.
0:15:49 > 0:15:53- Oh!- So as long as she is making a cup of tea, we'll be OK.
0:15:53 > 0:15:55The afternoon as a rent boy.
0:15:55 > 0:15:59This was just as students do, as young people do, waiters,
0:15:59 > 0:16:00to raise money?
0:16:00 > 0:16:03Well, it was more than that.
0:16:03 > 0:16:09It was also, in a way, er, to raise excitement.
0:16:09 > 0:16:12It was also a way to have sex.
0:16:12 > 0:16:17Which I know sounds so stupid and it sounds like I'm making a joke.
0:16:17 > 0:16:22But, it seemed to me quite a good way to have sex because it was your job.
0:16:22 > 0:16:26You were guaranteed that there would be some sex,
0:16:26 > 0:16:28it was in your job description.
0:16:28 > 0:16:32So I thought I could do this.
0:16:32 > 0:16:37I remember the night... I had to go for a meeting with this man.
0:16:37 > 0:16:41It got to a point where I thought,
0:16:41 > 0:16:44"Oh, I think he's going to try and have sex with me."
0:16:44 > 0:16:48And, again, it just sounds...
0:16:48 > 0:16:54it all falls into tragic "small town girl from the Midwest".
0:16:54 > 0:17:01I remember saying to him, "Oh, are you going to go all the way?"
0:17:01 > 0:17:04And, he came up with such a terrible line.
0:17:04 > 0:17:07He went, "Well, if you apply for a job as a secretary,
0:17:07 > 0:17:09"you're expected to write a letter."
0:17:11 > 0:17:14And he then said, "Oh, but..." that classic thing,
0:17:14 > 0:17:19"..if you're uncomfortable, we can stop."
0:17:19 > 0:17:24"OK!" I was uncomfortable! "Yeah, let's stop."
0:17:24 > 0:17:26And I walked away from it.
0:17:28 > 0:17:34I was so lucky that that's all that happened.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37It's one of those things that makes me so glad, in a way,
0:17:37 > 0:17:39that I'm not a parent.
0:17:39 > 0:17:46Because, to know that your child can be out there in the world making such
0:17:46 > 0:17:48terrible decisions.
0:17:48 > 0:17:55Such stupid mistakes would just fill you with dread. At all times.
0:17:55 > 0:17:57Welcome back to Mrs Norton(!)
0:17:57 > 0:18:00We should have sent your sister out of the room as well.
0:18:00 > 0:18:02She may know now.
0:18:02 > 0:18:04When you went to drama school,
0:18:04 > 0:18:07I talk to lots of actors and with some of them it's apparent
0:18:07 > 0:18:10in the first year that they're going to be Mark Rylance or Ian McKellen
0:18:10 > 0:18:14and they're going to play Hamlet and Henry V.
0:18:14 > 0:18:17Were you, in theory, going to be that kind of actor?
0:18:17 > 0:18:20Or was it always apparent that you would be a comic character?
0:18:20 > 0:18:24I think it was apparent to everyone else, but not to me.
0:18:24 > 0:18:28The one thing I actually learned in drama school over the three years,
0:18:28 > 0:18:32seriously, the only thing I think I learned, was what I couldn't do.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35I wasn't good at being serious.
0:18:35 > 0:18:42And that I did have an aptitude for comedy.
0:18:42 > 0:18:45The other thing I found out is that some people don't.
0:18:45 > 0:18:49Some people really don't.
0:18:49 > 0:18:54This thing that I had never valued, suddenly you realise,
0:18:54 > 0:18:58Oh, hang on, this could be something I could use.
0:18:58 > 0:19:00It's something that not everyone has.
0:19:00 > 0:19:04That hadn't really struck me up to that point.
0:19:04 > 0:19:07To that extent, drama school was useful.
0:19:07 > 0:19:09But you did think at the beginning
0:19:09 > 0:19:11that you were going to be a proper actor?
0:19:11 > 0:19:15I went to drama school thinking I was going to be the next Kenneth Branagh.
0:19:15 > 0:19:18- He was from Belfast.- Yes.
0:19:18 > 0:19:22Fiona Shaw was from Cork, there were...
0:19:22 > 0:19:25..what I liked about it was that I could see
0:19:25 > 0:19:28that someone who'd come from somewhere like I'd come from
0:19:28 > 0:19:29and had done it.
0:19:29 > 0:19:32You kind of thought, "It's possible."
0:19:32 > 0:19:34You're not breaking entirely new ground.
0:19:34 > 0:19:37Of course, once I started doing it, I realised it was not possible,
0:19:37 > 0:19:38I was not that person.
0:19:38 > 0:19:41One of the turning points in your life,
0:19:41 > 0:19:43which could clearly have gone the other way,
0:19:43 > 0:19:45it's the horrifying sequence in your memoir,
0:19:45 > 0:19:47when you were stabbed in north-west London
0:19:47 > 0:19:49when you were at drama school.
0:19:49 > 0:19:56And, this did actually, my eyes did fill with tears at this point.
0:19:56 > 0:19:59You staggered to someone's doorstep, and a man answers,
0:19:59 > 0:20:03he calls the ambulance, the police, thankfully.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06His wife comes down, you say, "..in a cloud of dressing gown."
0:20:06 > 0:20:10and you say to her, "Can you hold my hand?"
0:20:10 > 0:20:15Yeah, I remember saying that to her. "Can you hold my hand?"
0:20:15 > 0:20:19And I think it's a real truism that no one wants to die alone,
0:20:19 > 0:20:22because I had lost a lot of blood, and it was that...
0:20:24 > 0:20:28I, I remember lying there, in the street,
0:20:30 > 0:20:32and thinking, "Oh, no. I'd better get up."
0:20:32 > 0:20:36Because it was hard to get up.
0:20:36 > 0:20:43Once I was holding her hand, then I felt able to relax into it.
0:20:43 > 0:20:47It really is your life force ebbing away. It's like going to sleep.
0:20:47 > 0:20:54I lost over half of my blood. I was very lucky to get away with it.
0:20:54 > 0:20:57All nurses and doctors must dread this.
0:20:57 > 0:20:59You asked the dreaded question, "Am I going to die?"
0:20:59 > 0:21:02What happened was, they said to me,
0:21:02 > 0:21:06"Is there anyone you want us to phone?"
0:21:06 > 0:21:08I thought, "Well, should they phone my parents?"
0:21:08 > 0:21:11I thought, "Well, I don't want them getting all worried over nothing
0:21:11 > 0:21:13"if I'm going to be fine."
0:21:13 > 0:21:17This was all going on in my head. "Should I phone my parents?"
0:21:17 > 0:21:19I'm going, "errrrrr."
0:21:19 > 0:21:26The only one bit of information that I needed to answer that question was, "Am I going to die?"
0:21:26 > 0:21:34She, I'm hoping she was quite a young nurse, kind of went, "Umm..."
0:21:35 > 0:21:38No! Just go with the "No."
0:21:38 > 0:21:42Cheer him up. If I die, I am not going to sue you.
0:21:42 > 0:21:46And if I live, I am not going to sue you. Just say, "No."
0:21:46 > 0:21:51That's when I realised how serious it was. Yeah, it was bad.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54I've seen this described in some places, the attack,
0:21:54 > 0:21:56as if it were a hate crime or homophobic thing,
0:21:56 > 0:21:58but they were after your wallet, weren't they?
0:21:58 > 0:22:01It was just a mugging. It was just a mugging.
0:22:01 > 0:22:05I was probably wearing an annoying second-hand suit.
0:22:06 > 0:22:09But, I think mostly it was just a mugging.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12They got something ridiculous, like six pounds or something.
0:22:12 > 0:22:15Yeah, it's not worth dying for six pounds.
0:22:15 > 0:22:19And the other thing, it just puts everything into perspective,
0:22:19 > 0:22:22it happened in the summer.
0:22:22 > 0:22:26I was going into the third year of drama school.
0:22:26 > 0:22:28That's when you get cast in the final shows,
0:22:28 > 0:22:30that agents are going to come and see,
0:22:30 > 0:22:33and casting directors are going to come and see.
0:22:33 > 0:22:39You can imagine there's a lot of slamming of toilet doors and crying.
0:22:39 > 0:22:42Going "I'm not playing an old person again!"
0:22:42 > 0:22:48And, I was just, "You know what, I am just happy to be here."
0:22:48 > 0:22:54It made me very sane through that crazy last year of drama school.
0:22:54 > 0:22:58It's like having a little secret.
0:22:58 > 0:23:02I know this thing and you're running around crazy.
0:23:02 > 0:23:05We get now into the showbiz years.
0:23:05 > 0:23:09And the breakthrough role, there may be people watching who saw it,
0:23:09 > 0:23:10Puss in Boots, in Harrogate.
0:23:10 > 0:23:15Oh, my God. I wouldn't describe it as the breakthrough role.
0:23:15 > 0:23:17In a way.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20It was your first gig, wasn't it?
0:23:20 > 0:23:22Well, no, I had done Shadow of a Gunman
0:23:22 > 0:23:24in the Liverpool Playhouse the year before.
0:23:24 > 0:23:27The roles just kept rolling in.
0:23:27 > 0:23:32The next year I did Puss in Boots in Harrogate.
0:23:32 > 0:23:38In a way it was a breakthrough role in that it was one of those,
0:23:38 > 0:23:40I didn't like it.
0:23:40 > 0:23:45You spend all this time waiting for the job and then the job arrives
0:23:45 > 0:23:47and you think "I don't even like this.
0:23:47 > 0:23:52"I'm not even enjoying this. What was all that about?"
0:23:52 > 0:23:55Working in restaurants is more fun than this.
0:23:55 > 0:23:57So, it did push me towards
0:23:57 > 0:24:03writing my own stuff and going into comedy, I think.
0:24:03 > 0:24:05One of the things that interests me with actors
0:24:05 > 0:24:06is whether they can remember anything
0:24:06 > 0:24:08from their first role, of the dialogue.
0:24:08 > 0:24:11Some can recite the whole thing. Do you remember any lines at all?
0:24:14 > 0:24:18I'm sure at some point I went "Whoa, Neddy!"
0:24:20 > 0:24:22Or a "Come on, Neddy."
0:24:24 > 0:24:28All of my scenes were with Neddy. I didn't have any scenes alone.
0:24:29 > 0:24:32But, no, I can't go into streams, no.
0:24:32 > 0:24:34And then another key figure in your life,
0:24:34 > 0:24:37Mother Teresa of Calcutta, who turned out to be pivotal.
0:24:37 > 0:24:43That, I think, is when my life turned around.
0:24:43 > 0:24:48In that I knew I wanted to write something to perform myself.
0:24:48 > 0:24:53Then odd little things happened at the same time.
0:24:53 > 0:24:57A guy I'd worked with in restaurants, Mike Belben,
0:24:57 > 0:24:59he'd taken over a pub, The Eagle.
0:24:59 > 0:25:03On Farringdon Road, just up from The Guardian,
0:25:03 > 0:25:05and there was a space upstairs.
0:25:06 > 0:25:09There was a gallery, so I thought "Well, now..."
0:25:09 > 0:25:13So, I had access to a space. So, I thought,
0:25:13 > 0:25:17"I could possibly write something and perform something."
0:25:17 > 0:25:22I sort of half said it to Mike, Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah.
0:25:22 > 0:25:28Then, he put a date in the diary, he put in this date,
0:25:28 > 0:25:30and, so, people started saying to me,
0:25:30 > 0:25:34"Oh, wow, we're going to come and see your show..." on whatever day it was.
0:25:34 > 0:25:38"OK!" It was good. It forced me to write something.
0:25:38 > 0:25:41I didn't know what to write or do.
0:25:41 > 0:25:44I certainly wasn't anywhere near doing stand-up.
0:25:44 > 0:25:48I was still very much in the acting world,
0:25:48 > 0:25:53and when I'd worked in restaurants, in between cleaning glasses,
0:25:53 > 0:25:57I would put the tea towel on my head and pretend to be Mother Teresa,
0:25:57 > 0:26:00to much hilarity(!)
0:26:00 > 0:26:03I just thought, "At least that's an idea.
0:26:03 > 0:26:10"Let's see how far I can stretch that very flimsy comedy idea."
0:26:10 > 0:26:14I managed to kind of just about make it an hour.
0:26:14 > 0:26:17By the time I'd played some sort of Belgian voice choir,
0:26:17 > 0:26:19Bulgarian voice choir, sorry.
0:26:19 > 0:26:24I had two friends playing little sisters.
0:26:24 > 0:26:28There was a lot of candle lighting, and, sort of, pomp around it.
0:26:28 > 0:26:33It was probably around 40 minutes of actual talking.
0:26:33 > 0:26:35With a lot of guff around it.
0:26:35 > 0:26:39And, once I was doing it, I was on a PR overdrive.
0:26:39 > 0:26:43I just wrote to everyone and said I was doing this thing.
0:26:43 > 0:26:49I cut up little bits of tea towel and put them on card, like relics,
0:26:49 > 0:26:51and sent them out.
0:26:51 > 0:26:53The PR was better than the show.
0:26:53 > 0:26:59- Loose Ends on Radio Four did a piece on it.- Emma Freud!
0:26:59 > 0:27:01Yeah, Emma Freud did it.
0:27:01 > 0:27:07She was the first person to see me. She was incredibly nice to me.
0:27:07 > 0:27:11She offered to help me, and introduce me to various agents.
0:27:11 > 0:27:16Then another lady who saw the show there, Judith Diment,
0:27:16 > 0:27:19she got me a space in Edinburgh.
0:27:19 > 0:27:24That was kind of the start, then. Doing that first year in Edinburgh.
0:27:24 > 0:27:28Another key job which perhaps turned out to be more than was intended
0:27:28 > 0:27:33at the beginning was filling in for Jack Docherty on Channel 5.
0:27:33 > 0:27:37Be honest, did you go in with the plan of replacing him?
0:27:37 > 0:27:41Absolutely, no. Come on, no. I didn't.
0:27:41 > 0:27:46It was a very odd experience, because I got behind that desk,
0:27:46 > 0:27:51as, you know, the guest host, and I loved it.
0:27:51 > 0:27:58I just, it really felt right, it felt like such a great fit.
0:27:58 > 0:28:02It was a wonderful feeling and a terrible feeling at the same time,
0:28:02 > 0:28:05because I had found my dream job, but it was somebody else's.
0:28:05 > 0:28:07There's a theme here, isn't there?
0:28:12 > 0:28:17Because it went well, the executive producer, Graham Stuart,
0:28:17 > 0:28:21he then started developing a chat show with me
0:28:21 > 0:28:25and pitching it to Channel 4, and that's where that show came from.
0:28:25 > 0:28:27It grew directly out of The Jack Docherty Show.
0:28:27 > 0:28:29Now, this is astonishing.
0:28:29 > 0:28:32The levels of social embarrassment and discomfort here,
0:28:32 > 0:28:34somebody could write a Dear Graham about,
0:28:34 > 0:28:39but you were nominated alongside Jack Docherty for Best Newcomer.
0:28:39 > 0:28:41Now, you say in the book that this was a clerical error,
0:28:41 > 0:28:44that somebody had ticked the wrong box on a form, but is that true?
0:28:44 > 0:28:46I hope it's true.
0:28:46 > 0:28:50I really hope somebody didn't do that on purpose because not only
0:28:50 > 0:28:54were we both nominated for Best Newcomer, but for his show!
0:28:54 > 0:28:58I mean, it's like Curb Your Enthusiasm or something.
0:28:58 > 0:29:00It's so... just awful.
0:29:00 > 0:29:03You just thought, at the committee, when they sat around,
0:29:03 > 0:29:08when the little judging panel sat around, even at that point,
0:29:08 > 0:29:11wouldn't someone have said, "We can't give it to him
0:29:11 > 0:29:14"because that would just be too horrible."
0:29:14 > 0:29:20But they did. Show business really is that cruel, that mean.
0:29:20 > 0:29:27Mind you, at least, when I won, I then got to leave the table
0:29:27 > 0:29:30and get the prize, forgetting to thank anyone at Channel 5.
0:29:30 > 0:29:33Went off for the photocall and everything.
0:29:33 > 0:29:38My boyfriend, Scott, he was left at the table.
0:29:38 > 0:29:41I just came back and he went, "It's been very quiet."
0:29:44 > 0:29:47I can't imagine, it must have been awful.
0:29:47 > 0:29:50There is a theme here because in this series,
0:29:50 > 0:29:52most of the people I interview,
0:29:52 > 0:29:54there are these quite astonishing incidents
0:29:54 > 0:29:57of luck or charm or something bizarre happening that have
0:29:57 > 0:29:59a huge influence on their career,
0:29:59 > 0:30:01from which we can draw no conclusion except
0:30:01 > 0:30:06that it just does seem to happen an awful lot in showbiz careers.
0:30:06 > 0:30:12It does, but I remember the only panic attack I ever had
0:30:12 > 0:30:15was once I'd got that Channel 4 show,
0:30:15 > 0:30:20because the only thing worse than not getting your big break
0:30:20 > 0:30:26is in a way getting it, because then you can screw it up.
0:30:28 > 0:30:32If you screw up your big break, that's it.
0:30:32 > 0:30:34You're so much worse off than you were
0:30:34 > 0:30:37because you're standing at the sidelines going,
0:30:37 > 0:30:41"If only you'd give me a chance, if only you'd give me a chance."
0:30:41 > 0:30:45Then someone gives you a chance and you're crap.
0:30:45 > 0:30:48You can't really be standing at the sidelines then going,
0:30:48 > 0:30:51"Give me a chance, it will be different this time."
0:30:51 > 0:30:55So, yeah, it really kind of freaked me out,
0:30:55 > 0:31:01realising how important the success of that Channel 4 show was.
0:31:01 > 0:31:06We found this man, Dale. Here he is.
0:31:06 > 0:31:09Some of Dale's skirt pictures.
0:31:09 > 0:31:13There's Dale. "This was the first time I wore a skirt in public.
0:31:13 > 0:31:17"It's at a computer conference in Anaheim, California."
0:31:17 > 0:31:19There it is.
0:31:25 > 0:31:30Here he is. "This is just a fairly typical summer outfit."
0:31:30 > 0:31:34I do think, Dale, it really isn't.
0:31:34 > 0:31:39I love this one, right. Here's Dale.
0:31:39 > 0:31:41Watch it now as it creeps into shot. Here's Dale.
0:31:41 > 0:31:43Dale normal, Dale normal, Dale normal,
0:31:43 > 0:31:45Dale freak!
0:31:46 > 0:31:49As a chat show host, at that time the tendency,
0:31:49 > 0:31:52which actually remains, was to be heavily influenced
0:31:52 > 0:31:55by David Letterman particularly in America,
0:31:55 > 0:31:59partly because he did five nights a week and he had that kind of
0:31:59 > 0:32:02comedy talk show, but he was an influence presumably,
0:32:02 > 0:32:03and also Jonathan Ross?
0:32:03 > 0:32:05They were.
0:32:05 > 0:32:08All chat shows, in a way, were an influence,
0:32:08 > 0:32:11but in a way, almost an anti-influence.
0:32:13 > 0:32:16Look, you can't reinvent the wheel. It's a chat show.
0:32:16 > 0:32:20Please welcome, blah blah blah, thank you, good night.
0:32:20 > 0:32:25But the grammar of it we really felt we wanted to change,
0:32:25 > 0:32:28so there was no desk.
0:32:28 > 0:32:31There was no monologue.
0:32:33 > 0:32:35OK, I've run out now, that was it.
0:32:35 > 0:32:40Those were our big decisions. They took weeks, those decisions.
0:32:40 > 0:32:43An important factor which, from very early on critics would...
0:32:43 > 0:32:47the word "camp" would appear routinely.
0:32:47 > 0:32:49Were you happy with that and was it indeed an aim?
0:32:49 > 0:32:53It's never an aim to be camp.
0:32:55 > 0:32:58There's kind of a weird thing.
0:32:58 > 0:33:05I remember like if you would package a DVD or something,
0:33:05 > 0:33:07they'd package it in pink fun fur
0:33:07 > 0:33:12or it would have feather boas around it and stuff.
0:33:12 > 0:33:17You go, "That's your camp. That's not my camp."
0:33:17 > 0:33:22But they kind of think, "Oh well, he's really camp so let's do this."
0:33:22 > 0:33:27Actually, if you look at the show, it was brown.
0:33:27 > 0:33:33The whole So Graham Norton set was all incredibly muted,
0:33:33 > 0:33:35'60s colours.
0:33:35 > 0:33:38It was drab.
0:33:38 > 0:33:40It wasn't camp in any way.
0:33:40 > 0:33:45The only thing camp in it was me, and some of the things I would wear.
0:33:45 > 0:33:51It's all, too, I think that word "camp", in a way, it's much harder...
0:33:51 > 0:33:56It's a harder thing, I think, for people to accept that they're camp
0:33:56 > 0:33:59than to accept that they're gay, you know?
0:33:59 > 0:34:03All gay personal ads start with "straight acting".
0:34:03 > 0:34:07They never start with, you know, "camp guy seeks similar".
0:34:07 > 0:34:14So it's a big thing to accept, "You know what, I am camp."
0:34:14 > 0:34:16I liked the whistle, very nice.
0:34:16 > 0:34:19Isn't it? Isn't it nice? It's very lovely.
0:34:19 > 0:34:20I think I saw something on the back.
0:34:20 > 0:34:23Oh, you're too kind.
0:34:23 > 0:34:26Oh. C & A.
0:34:30 > 0:34:32Lovely!
0:34:33 > 0:34:36The thing that a lot of people still remember, I do,
0:34:36 > 0:34:39but it was when you most put your three years of expensive
0:34:39 > 0:34:44drama school training to use was in Father Ted, that handful -
0:34:44 > 0:34:47not even a handful - three episodes, I think it is.
0:34:47 > 0:34:50That was proper acting, wasn't it?
0:34:50 > 0:34:51I don't know if it was proper acting.
0:34:51 > 0:34:53It was a very odd thing
0:34:53 > 0:34:57because it was the first high-profile telly thing I'd done.
0:34:59 > 0:35:02It just goes to show, it led nowhere.
0:35:02 > 0:35:06It led to two more episodes of Father Ted
0:35:06 > 0:35:12but nobody watched it thinking, "Oh yeah, he seems really castable."
0:35:12 > 0:35:16It was quite a specific job and it was a great job.
0:35:16 > 0:35:21It's the coolest job I've ever had and I'm genuinely thrilled and proud
0:35:21 > 0:35:25to have been part of that show,
0:35:25 > 0:35:29which is kind of my generation's Dad's Army.
0:35:29 > 0:35:32It's one of those classic sitcoms that will be around forever.
0:35:32 > 0:35:34And still stands up now when you see it now.
0:35:34 > 0:35:37Really, really funny. Fantastic.
0:35:37 > 0:35:40# Ebony and ivory
0:35:40 > 0:35:44# Live together in perfect harmony
0:35:44 > 0:35:47# Side by side on my piano keyboard
0:35:47 > 0:35:51- # Oh Lord, why can't we?- #
0:35:51 > 0:35:54- Ted.- Hello, Noel. What in goodness' name are you doing here?
0:35:54 > 0:35:56Actually, this is our caravan, Noel.
0:35:56 > 0:35:58Father Rourke said we could use it.
0:35:58 > 0:36:01- Yes, I see.- I think he must say it to everyone!
0:36:01 > 0:36:05Hey, you lot - room for two more in the St Luke's Youth Group?
0:36:05 > 0:36:07Motion passed. Sit down there!
0:36:07 > 0:36:10We'll have a bit of an old song. What will we sing? Will you sing one, Ted?
0:36:10 > 0:36:15- No, I won't.- Ah, you will. You've a lovely voice. Very like Celine Dion.
0:36:16 > 0:36:19The two traditional dreams
0:36:19 > 0:36:21of talk-show hosts on this side of the Atlantic
0:36:21 > 0:36:23have been to do five nights a week,
0:36:23 > 0:36:25which so many of them have tried,
0:36:25 > 0:36:28Michael Parkinson wanted to do it, Wogan wanted to do it,
0:36:28 > 0:36:29Jonathan Ross,
0:36:29 > 0:36:31they were all prevented in various ways.
0:36:31 > 0:36:34You managed that one, and then also to break into America.
0:36:34 > 0:36:37In a different way, you did a bit of both.
0:36:37 > 0:36:39The five nights a week thing,
0:36:39 > 0:36:43that had been a huge goal for decades for broadcasters here.
0:36:43 > 0:36:45Yeah, and I really wanted to do it.
0:36:47 > 0:36:55But, the mistake was that I'd had a successful one night a week show,
0:36:55 > 0:36:59and, I think, if you are going to do that five nights a week show,
0:36:59 > 0:37:02it needs to be your big break.
0:37:02 > 0:37:05That needs to be your first big job.
0:37:05 > 0:37:11Because once you know how lovely life can be, doing one show a week,
0:37:11 > 0:37:18it's very hard to quadruple your workload.
0:37:18 > 0:37:23It's like joining the priesthood. It takes over your whole life.
0:37:23 > 0:37:25You can't do anything else.
0:37:25 > 0:37:30And America, which you did on the cusp of moving from Channel 4 to the BBC.
0:37:30 > 0:37:32Were you one of those performers,
0:37:32 > 0:37:34of whom we know many in British showbiz,
0:37:34 > 0:37:36who really wanted to... America was what they most wanted.
0:37:36 > 0:37:39I don't know if it's what I most wanted,
0:37:39 > 0:37:43but when it came a-calling I wasn't going to go, "No."
0:37:43 > 0:37:50It was exciting, the possibility of America.
0:37:50 > 0:37:55At that point, I think Simon Cowell had just made it big,
0:37:55 > 0:37:58and Anne Robinson had gone
0:37:58 > 0:38:01and you just thought, "Well, this is possible.
0:38:01 > 0:38:04This MIGHT just happen.
0:38:04 > 0:38:06Of course, it didn't!
0:38:06 > 0:38:09We went, we...
0:38:09 > 0:38:14We had an extraordinary time, because we were a hot show.
0:38:14 > 0:38:17Industry types in America had heard of us,
0:38:17 > 0:38:21and they had to, in a way, take us seriously.
0:38:21 > 0:38:24So we had about, I don't know how many days,
0:38:24 > 0:38:27of just being driven around LA in this minibus
0:38:27 > 0:38:31from broadcaster to production company to broadcaster.
0:38:31 > 0:38:36Where they all pitched themselves to us,
0:38:36 > 0:38:39it was like a beauty parade of who we would go with.
0:38:39 > 0:38:42In the end we chose Comedy Central.
0:38:42 > 0:38:46And looking back, that was our mistake, really,
0:38:46 > 0:38:48was going with them.
0:38:48 > 0:38:50We weren't a good fit.
0:38:50 > 0:38:54But, equally, I am not sure if it would have been a good fit anywhere,
0:38:54 > 0:39:00because working in America was so alien to us.
0:39:00 > 0:39:05Because we'd had a hit show here,
0:39:05 > 0:39:10we were used to all of the good things which come with that.
0:39:10 > 0:39:12You can kind of call the shots, a bit.
0:39:12 > 0:39:17People don't bother you very much, they just let you get on with it.
0:39:17 > 0:39:19Whereas starting afresh,
0:39:19 > 0:39:26as a newbie in the States, everyone wanted to tell us how to do it.
0:39:26 > 0:39:32Everyone wanted a piece of it, and it sucked all of the joy out of it.
0:39:32 > 0:39:35And so was that a knock to you?
0:39:35 > 0:39:36Er...
0:39:39 > 0:39:42..I suppose it was.
0:39:42 > 0:39:45The good thing was we were on Comedy Central,
0:39:45 > 0:39:48it wasn't like we were a flop,
0:39:48 > 0:39:53it wasn't like going as the great big "New Big Thing",
0:39:53 > 0:39:55on NBC or something
0:39:55 > 0:39:59and then been cancelled after one week.
0:39:59 > 0:40:03You know, we got our run, we did decent business for them.
0:40:03 > 0:40:06We just weren't recommissioned.
0:40:06 > 0:40:09It was kind of a non-story.
0:40:09 > 0:40:12We certainly weren't the breakout hit they'd hoped we'd be.
0:40:12 > 0:40:17- Hello, sir. What's your name?- Eric. - Sorry?- Eric.- This is Eric.
0:40:17 > 0:40:18That's Eric!
0:40:18 > 0:40:23HE LAUGHS HYSTERICALLY
0:40:23 > 0:40:25You know, I've done a bit of stand-up.
0:40:25 > 0:40:28Eric doesn't normally go this well.
0:40:28 > 0:40:32It's a crowd-pleaser here, isn't it? Eric, ha-ha-ha!
0:40:32 > 0:40:38LAUGHTER
0:40:38 > 0:40:40You're a cheap date, aren't you?
0:40:40 > 0:40:42Your big-money transfer to the BBC,
0:40:42 > 0:40:46it became a standard article for all TV critics at that time
0:40:46 > 0:40:50that you were the Prince Charles of broadcasting.
0:40:50 > 0:40:56- Trying to find a role. - That depressed both of us, equally!
0:40:56 > 0:40:59You couldn't quite find the role,
0:40:59 > 0:41:01they had you but didn't know what to do with you,
0:41:01 > 0:41:03and all of these shows.
0:41:03 > 0:41:05Strictly Dance Fever, When Will I Be Famous?
0:41:05 > 0:41:08The One and Only, Totally Saturday.
0:41:08 > 0:41:11None of them worked particularly.
0:41:11 > 0:41:14The last one particularly didn't work, Totally Saturday.
0:41:14 > 0:41:17I talked to you a couple of times during that period
0:41:17 > 0:41:21and you kept up your confidence, but were you worried at that time?
0:41:21 > 0:41:27Weirdly, you'd think I would have been. With that list.
0:41:27 > 0:41:30"Really, you weren't worried?!"
0:41:30 > 0:41:33I suppose because the jobs kept coming.
0:41:34 > 0:41:38And things did get recommissioned.
0:41:38 > 0:41:42Strictly Dance Fever came back a couple of times
0:41:42 > 0:41:49and I don't know why I wasn't worried but I wasn't.
0:41:49 > 0:41:53The BBC felt like they were still behind me.
0:41:53 > 0:41:54It wasn't, you know,
0:41:54 > 0:41:58you could imagine that thing where you buy somebody,
0:41:58 > 0:42:00you put them out there and people go, "Oh."
0:42:00 > 0:42:04It's slightly like you stink of fish and everyone just walks away
0:42:04 > 0:42:06and pretends you don't exist
0:42:06 > 0:42:09until your contract runs out and you're just not renewed.
0:42:09 > 0:42:11I never got that feeling.
0:42:11 > 0:42:15They always seemed very supportive and very keen to make something work
0:42:15 > 0:42:21and they were committed to me. For whatever reason.
0:42:22 > 0:42:24But that's how it felt.
0:42:24 > 0:42:27In that way which is very common in football,
0:42:27 > 0:42:29with players with big transfer fees,
0:42:29 > 0:42:32you can see it weighs them down if they don't score goals
0:42:32 > 0:42:35and it becomes a huge thing in the press.
0:42:35 > 0:42:38Did you ever feel the burden of the transfer fee?
0:42:38 > 0:42:40Well, I didn't.
0:42:40 > 0:42:45Because, of course, for me it was a wage cut.
0:42:45 > 0:42:49- You were getting less than at Channel 4?- Yes.
0:42:49 > 0:42:52So it was the opposite of a big-money transfer.
0:42:52 > 0:42:56If I had stayed at Channel 4, I'd have presumably made more money.
0:42:56 > 0:43:00It was just I didn't want to go back to doing five nights a week.
0:43:00 > 0:43:04I suppose what kept me going through that was that I knew why I had done it.
0:43:04 > 0:43:07I hadn't jumped ship for the money,
0:43:07 > 0:43:11I'd jumped ship for the opportunities of doing different sorts of shows
0:43:11 > 0:43:14that I wouldn't have been able to do at Channel 4.
0:43:14 > 0:43:18So, I suppose that's the difference in that scenario.
0:43:18 > 0:43:21Again, as so often the case, one of the pleasures and pains of showbiz,
0:43:21 > 0:43:24you never know what's going to take off and what isn't.
0:43:24 > 0:43:28The one which took off was, perhaps to some people, the least promising of them,
0:43:28 > 0:43:31the audition shows with you and Lord Lloyd Webber,
0:43:31 > 0:43:33which, where as some of the others had been talked up,
0:43:33 > 0:43:36that one people were quite sniffy at the beginning.
0:43:36 > 0:43:38But that really did.
0:43:38 > 0:43:41I think it was that double act, it was an unlikely double act, you and the Lord.
0:43:41 > 0:43:47Like with anything that's a success, it's such, you know,
0:43:47 > 0:43:49you can't explain it.
0:43:49 > 0:43:51All of the various little bits of chemistry
0:43:51 > 0:43:53that come together to make something a success.
0:43:53 > 0:43:57Yes, I'm sure there might have been a bit of that. I do adore him.
0:43:57 > 0:43:58So, that was genuine.
0:43:58 > 0:44:02Also, you were genuinely interested in that world. The musical.
0:44:02 > 0:44:06- Less so!- Oh, really? I thought you were.- I am now.
0:44:06 > 0:44:09- Oh, right.- I am now.
0:44:09 > 0:44:14That's the great thing about Andrew, because he's such an enthusiast.
0:44:14 > 0:44:18He's like a great teacher, he makes you think you care.
0:44:18 > 0:44:20Because he cares enough for everybody.
0:44:20 > 0:44:23When he talks about something, you go, "Yes, Yes!
0:44:23 > 0:44:26"That is an amazing bit of performance!"
0:44:26 > 0:44:30He did drag me with him into the world of musical theatre,
0:44:30 > 0:44:32which I do really like now.
0:44:32 > 0:44:38Andrew, this is your final and most important say of the series.
0:44:38 > 0:44:41What must Rachel and Samantha do now?
0:44:41 > 0:44:43I am going to first say
0:44:43 > 0:44:45this is exactly the result I did not want to happen.
0:44:45 > 0:44:49But what you have to do now is just be a star.
0:44:49 > 0:44:53Show that sacred flame that a star must show in a moment like this.
0:44:53 > 0:44:58It also had an amazing effect on the image of the Lord,
0:44:58 > 0:44:59Lord Lloyd Webber.
0:44:59 > 0:45:02Because, I have always got on very well with him
0:45:02 > 0:45:05but he was an astonishingly hated figure
0:45:05 > 0:45:09in some circles of the media and showbiz before that,
0:45:09 > 0:45:12whereas it quite changed people's view of him, I think.
0:45:12 > 0:45:15It did. It really humanised him, I think.
0:45:15 > 0:45:19He used to be the butt, the punchline, of jokes on our show.
0:45:19 > 0:45:22And so...
0:45:22 > 0:45:25Did he ever mention that? No?
0:45:25 > 0:45:29We did have a lunch, before it all got signed off
0:45:29 > 0:45:32because I think he was a bit nervous of me
0:45:32 > 0:45:35and wanted to see how we'd get on.
0:45:35 > 0:45:40So, I went for a meet and greet, and it all went very well.
0:45:40 > 0:45:46There had been an incident with Sarah Brightman on the chat show,
0:45:46 > 0:45:50where she'd talked about the size of his cock.
0:45:50 > 0:45:52Can I say cock?
0:45:54 > 0:45:58- And you would think it would be a lovely thing.- She was complimentary.
0:45:58 > 0:46:01She was extremely complimentary.
0:46:01 > 0:46:04You would think, "Why would anyone be upset about that?"
0:46:04 > 0:46:09but, of course, in recent years he's explained why he was upset,
0:46:09 > 0:46:13because his son was just starting prep school that week.
0:46:13 > 0:46:18You forget all of the ramifications of anything like that.
0:46:18 > 0:46:22It's not just two people talking, it's families, it's neighbours,
0:46:22 > 0:46:24it's all sorts of things.
0:46:24 > 0:46:28There are other questions about the Friday night show, now.
0:46:28 > 0:46:31I am amazed at the extent to which it's worked, but you do something
0:46:31 > 0:46:34which is technically quite difficult in talk shows.
0:46:34 > 0:46:37You have the three people on the sofa from the start
0:46:37 > 0:46:39and they have to interact.
0:46:39 > 0:46:42I'm amazed the extent to which people are able to do that.
0:46:42 > 0:46:47Do you have any resistance with people not wanting to do it?
0:46:47 > 0:46:53Not that I'm aware of. Who knows what goes on behind the scenes.
0:46:53 > 0:46:58We gave Madonna a clear run at the sofa, for most of the show,
0:46:58 > 0:47:01but at the end we brought some actors from a movie on.
0:47:01 > 0:47:03But, you know, frankly,
0:47:03 > 0:47:07I had been looking for her for a guest for so long,
0:47:07 > 0:47:09we'd have promised her anything.
0:47:09 > 0:47:14But, by and large, I think most guests like it,
0:47:14 > 0:47:17because you are less exposed.
0:47:17 > 0:47:22Tom Hanks said that after the show, that he enjoyed the experience,
0:47:22 > 0:47:25because on American chat shows you get your six minutes,
0:47:25 > 0:47:27eight minutes if you're a big star.
0:47:27 > 0:47:32It's all about you and if your stories don't hit,
0:47:33 > 0:47:38if you don't kill, your eight minutes are over.
0:47:38 > 0:47:40And then, "Did you see him?" "Oh, he was all right."
0:47:40 > 0:47:44Whereas on our show, if you try a story and it doesn't work,
0:47:44 > 0:47:45it doesn't matter.
0:47:45 > 0:47:48You'll get another bite of the cherry later on.
0:47:48 > 0:47:51Or, you can come up with a very funny retort to something.
0:47:51 > 0:47:55If showing off is your game,
0:47:55 > 0:47:59and for the vast majority of these guests that's what they like to do,
0:47:59 > 0:48:04there are many more opportunities in this format than if it's just you.
0:48:04 > 0:48:05You're standing
0:48:05 > 0:48:09and you have to do 18 variations of something like this -
0:48:09 > 0:48:14"Buzz, if we don't get back there, I'm going to go absolutely berserk!"
0:48:14 > 0:48:15That's what you have to do,
0:48:15 > 0:48:19and then you look at the people in the booth and they're going...
0:48:19 > 0:48:23HE MIMES
0:48:23 > 0:48:25They almost press the Talkback, they go...
0:48:27 > 0:48:34HE MIMES
0:48:34 > 0:48:37"Hey Tom, that was great."
0:48:37 > 0:48:41LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:48:41 > 0:48:44How much bargaining goes on beforehand?
0:48:44 > 0:48:45"You can't mention what happened
0:48:45 > 0:48:49"at the donkey sanctuary that time", and all that sort of stuff.
0:48:49 > 0:48:53- Does that happen?- It does, absolutely. Usually we'll agree.
0:48:53 > 0:48:57We'll just say, "OK", we're not in the business of upsetting people.
0:48:57 > 0:49:00I am not doing a Newsnight interview,
0:49:00 > 0:49:02I'm not doing a Piers Morgan Life Stories.
0:49:02 > 0:49:05It's a chat show. We're chatting.
0:49:05 > 0:49:09We want to entertain people, we want some funny stories,
0:49:09 > 0:49:12and yes, we'll tell people you're in a movie,
0:49:12 > 0:49:14we'll tell people you've written a book,
0:49:14 > 0:49:19but other than that, I don't want your life story,
0:49:19 > 0:49:23I do want a biographical detail because it's an anecdote,
0:49:23 > 0:49:26because it ends with, "..and then granny fell of the donkey."
0:49:26 > 0:49:33But, if you've shot a donkey, I don't really want you to tell that story.
0:49:33 > 0:49:35Unless it's amusing.
0:49:35 > 0:49:38Do you ever have to pretend that you like a movie or a CD
0:49:38 > 0:49:41more than you actually do, because the guest is on the show?
0:49:41 > 0:49:43Yes, I do.
0:49:43 > 0:49:45THEY LAUGH
0:49:45 > 0:49:47Does that feel uncomfortable?
0:49:47 > 0:49:54It seems unnecessary, but at the moment - these things change -
0:49:54 > 0:49:57at the moment there is a real thing with PRs
0:49:57 > 0:49:59that you have to see the movie,
0:49:59 > 0:50:01the guests will not be delivered to you
0:50:01 > 0:50:04unless you have sat through the movie.
0:50:04 > 0:50:08It's much easier to interview someone about a movie you haven't seen.
0:50:08 > 0:50:10I don't know if you find this.
0:50:10 > 0:50:12No, I would always insist on seeing it,
0:50:12 > 0:50:14otherwise they're just selling it to you.
0:50:14 > 0:50:16Just selling it to the public, aren't they?
0:50:16 > 0:50:18- Yes.- You have no idea whether it's any good.
0:50:18 > 0:50:21Yes, and that's much easier than knowing it's terrible!
0:50:24 > 0:50:26It's fine if you're doing a review,
0:50:26 > 0:50:30obviously you need to see it, but if you are doing an interview,
0:50:30 > 0:50:33I don't want to know that it's toe-curling.
0:50:33 > 0:50:38Because I've got to look them in the eye and they know.
0:50:38 > 0:50:42It's an awkward thing that could be avoided.
0:50:42 > 0:50:45I could just look at the clip and go,
0:50:45 > 0:50:48"It looks great! I can't wait to see it!"
0:50:48 > 0:50:51You're one of the most natural broadcasters I've ever seen,
0:50:51 > 0:50:54but on that Madonna night you did look nervous to me.
0:50:54 > 0:50:59I was nervous, and the thing was, I didn't mind looking nervous.
0:50:59 > 0:51:05I think everyone kind of thinks, "Yep, I'd be nervous too."
0:51:05 > 0:51:09Were you frightened of her?
0:51:11 > 0:51:15I was frightened of the show being bad.
0:51:15 > 0:51:20But not...of her. Once she had agreed to do it,
0:51:20 > 0:51:23and once I said, "Ladies and gentlemen, Madonna!"
0:51:23 > 0:51:30and then she stepped up, then that was all I wanted to happen.
0:51:30 > 0:51:34Once those barriers had been crossed,
0:51:34 > 0:51:37then I was only nervous about the show but not of her,
0:51:37 > 0:51:41once she had agreed to show up, that was the main thing.
0:51:41 > 0:51:44But you were less, I think it's inevitable,
0:51:44 > 0:51:45we would all do the same thing,
0:51:45 > 0:51:48you were less cheeky with her than you are with other people.
0:51:48 > 0:51:51If somebody else turned up in gloves,
0:51:51 > 0:51:53you might perhaps have asked why.
0:51:54 > 0:51:58Maybe...would I? I don't know.
0:52:00 > 0:52:07It's certainly, I suppose, if I had been more relaxed in the situation
0:52:07 > 0:52:08maybe I would have.
0:52:08 > 0:52:11But I was genuinely geeked and excited.
0:52:11 > 0:52:15I know this is a bit tragic, but that was a big day for me.
0:52:15 > 0:52:18We wanted that for a long time, it was Madonna Day.
0:52:18 > 0:52:23It will be ever marked in my house as Madonna Day.
0:52:23 > 0:52:30She's here, Holy Mother of God, it's Madonna!
0:52:30 > 0:52:35CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:52:35 > 0:52:37Hello!
0:52:37 > 0:52:42CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:52:42 > 0:52:45It's more important that we discuss the fact
0:52:45 > 0:52:47that you've named your dog after me.
0:52:47 > 0:52:49Now, I didn't name my dog after you!
0:52:49 > 0:52:53Oh, really. I heard that you did. This is how rumours get started.
0:52:53 > 0:52:55My dog is called Madge, but...
0:52:55 > 0:53:00LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:53:00 > 0:53:04- What does that mean? - It was a rescue dog, right...
0:53:04 > 0:53:06LAUGHTER
0:53:06 > 0:53:08Wait!
0:53:08 > 0:53:11It was a rescue dog and when I went to the rescue place
0:53:11 > 0:53:14they'd already called her Madonna.
0:53:14 > 0:53:17I thought, I can't have a dog called Madonna.
0:53:17 > 0:53:19So, I called her Madge.
0:53:19 > 0:53:22Does that help you separate things?
0:53:22 > 0:53:23I have got two dogs,
0:53:23 > 0:53:26what was I going to called the other one...? "Hmm" and Madonna.
0:53:26 > 0:53:28- What's your other dog's name? - Bailey.
0:53:28 > 0:53:30Not Gaga?
0:53:30 > 0:53:32LAUGHTER
0:53:32 > 0:53:35Do you get outrageous star demands?
0:53:35 > 0:53:38The so-called "riders", about what they have in their dressing room
0:53:38 > 0:53:39and all that kind of stuff?
0:53:39 > 0:53:41No, not really.
0:53:41 > 0:53:45We did have one person, who will remain nameless,
0:53:45 > 0:53:48who asked for, I think, nine dressing rooms.
0:53:48 > 0:53:53And on the day asked for another one for their mobile phone.
0:53:55 > 0:53:58- To charge their mobile phone in. - You're going to have to tell us who.
0:53:58 > 0:54:01No, I can't. I really can't.
0:54:01 > 0:54:05- Did you find the 10th dressing room? - Yes, we did.
0:54:05 > 0:54:08The mobile phone was very comfortable.
0:54:08 > 0:54:09What did they do in all nine?
0:54:09 > 0:54:16I have no idea, I think clothes, er, other people, I really don't know.
0:54:16 > 0:54:19The other thing that in recent years,
0:54:19 > 0:54:22technology has been very good to you in the talk-show format.
0:54:22 > 0:54:26You've been able to make more and more use of stuff found online,
0:54:26 > 0:54:28shared video and so on.
0:54:28 > 0:54:31Funnily enough, I think that's winding down.
0:54:31 > 0:54:34We're finding it harder and harder to find things.
0:54:34 > 0:54:36It spreads so fast now,
0:54:36 > 0:54:41because everyone has got a Facebook page, everyone's on Twitter.
0:54:41 > 0:54:44There was a time when we were like your Facebook page,
0:54:44 > 0:54:48we brought you it, we were the friend posting the funny video.
0:54:48 > 0:54:51Now you don't need us as your friend,
0:54:51 > 0:54:53you've got real friends who'll do that.
0:54:53 > 0:54:56So, it's very hard now to find things
0:54:56 > 0:54:59that people genuinely haven't seen before.
0:54:59 > 0:55:02At the time we're talking, you're in your late 40s.
0:55:02 > 0:55:0650th birthday in sight. Are you calm about that landmark?
0:55:06 > 0:55:09I think so.
0:55:09 > 0:55:11I think 40 is a much harder one to swallow.
0:55:11 > 0:55:14You did that, there's a photograph in your book,
0:55:14 > 0:55:17you did that fantastic birthday card for your 40th.
0:55:17 > 0:55:20Where you are being helped across the road,
0:55:20 > 0:55:22completely bald and senile.
0:55:22 > 0:55:24Yes. Yes.
0:55:26 > 0:55:31I, er, you have to accept these things, I'm going to be 50.
0:55:31 > 0:55:38And, actually, I feel good, and life is good.
0:55:38 > 0:55:42So, it's better to hit 50 with all of those things in a row
0:55:42 > 0:55:46rather than be hitting 50 with both your knees hanging off
0:55:46 > 0:55:48and a broken neck.
0:55:48 > 0:55:51Two relatively recent possibilities for gay men,
0:55:51 > 0:55:54to go through a form of marriage, civil partnership,
0:55:54 > 0:55:58and to have children, which is happening more and more.
0:55:58 > 0:56:00Sir Elton John has done both of those.
0:56:00 > 0:56:03Are either of those a prospect for you, do you think?
0:56:03 > 0:56:08You never say never, who knows what will happen in the future.
0:56:08 > 0:56:11They're not a prospect right now, as we speak.
0:56:14 > 0:56:17The children thing, I think was, er...
0:56:18 > 0:56:21It's like it's the same for straight people and gay people,
0:56:21 > 0:56:23I think there's a window of opportunity
0:56:23 > 0:56:25where it's a good idea to have children
0:56:25 > 0:56:29and I think I've sort of missed that window of opportunity.
0:56:29 > 0:56:31You know, at 50, I'm sort of getting to...
0:56:31 > 0:56:34But you're far younger than Sir Elton, aren't you?
0:56:34 > 0:56:38Yes, but...that's his choice.
0:56:38 > 0:56:44I think people can have children whenever they want,
0:56:44 > 0:56:48but, I suppose because it is a "decision",
0:56:48 > 0:56:51it's not like somebody's just going to fall pregnant.
0:56:51 > 0:56:55I would have to really decide, "This is going to happen."
0:56:55 > 0:56:58So, you have to weigh up all of those things
0:56:58 > 0:57:03in a way that, I think, a regular couple just having a kid, don't.
0:57:03 > 0:57:06It's just, they just have a kid.
0:57:06 > 0:57:09As you say, you can't have an accident.
0:57:09 > 0:57:11It's very deliberate.
0:57:11 > 0:57:14It would be a BIZARRE accident.
0:57:14 > 0:57:17Good luck writing that into a movie script.
0:57:17 > 0:57:19THEY LAUGH
0:57:19 > 0:57:22To take the title of an Elton John album,
0:57:22 > 0:57:26are you at heart A Single Man? Is that what you are, do you think?
0:57:26 > 0:57:28Er, I don't know.
0:57:28 > 0:57:34A friend of mine had a line where somebody said to him
0:57:34 > 0:57:39"Are you happy being single?" or, "Do you like being single?"
0:57:39 > 0:57:42and his reply was, "Apparently I do."
0:57:43 > 0:57:45Because he was.
0:57:45 > 0:57:50At the moment, I'm not single. I'm in a relationship at the moment.
0:57:50 > 0:57:52So, hopefully I'm not a single man,
0:57:52 > 0:57:54hopefully that relationship will continue.
0:57:54 > 0:57:58Equally, I am aware that I am quite good at being single.
0:57:58 > 0:58:04I am self-contained. It doesn't drive me to despair when I am single.
0:58:04 > 0:58:06Graham Norton, thank you.
0:58:28 > 0:58:31Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd