0:00:25 > 0:00:28Mark Gatiss was first picked out among a quartet
0:00:28 > 0:00:30that looked like dozens of people.
0:00:30 > 0:00:34The comedy horror outfit, The League of Gentlemen,
0:00:34 > 0:00:36seen in TV, stage and film versions,
0:00:36 > 0:00:38which he formed with drama school classmates,
0:00:38 > 0:00:42Reece Shearsmith, Steve Pemberton and Jeremy Dyson.
0:00:42 > 0:00:45On his own, Gatiss has written novels,
0:00:45 > 0:00:47acted and written for Doctor Who,
0:00:47 > 0:00:49played biographical cameos in movies,
0:00:49 > 0:00:53including University Challenge host Bamber Gascoigne, in Starter For 10,
0:00:53 > 0:00:57and co-created with Steven Moffat, and appeared in,
0:00:57 > 0:01:00the modern extension to 221B Baker Street, Sherlock.
0:01:02 > 0:01:04Your career looks unusually neat
0:01:04 > 0:01:07because the things you were interested in in childhood,
0:01:07 > 0:01:10Doctor Who, horror, Sherlock Holmes,
0:01:10 > 0:01:13are things you've been able to work on in your adult career.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16Is that luck or the result of ruthless career planning?
0:01:16 > 0:01:19It's all luck. Everything is, I think.
0:01:19 > 0:01:23I mean, certainly with something like Doctor Who,
0:01:23 > 0:01:26which is just always my favourite show.
0:01:26 > 0:01:29And it's had a huge influence on me,
0:01:29 > 0:01:33not just in the sort of things I'm interested in,
0:01:33 > 0:01:36but wanting to get into the business.
0:01:36 > 0:01:37Looking at credits,
0:01:37 > 0:01:40Doctor Who was how I discovered what a script editor was,
0:01:40 > 0:01:42or a producer or a director.
0:01:42 > 0:01:46Sherlock Holmes, again, a boyhood obsession.
0:01:46 > 0:01:51Which I have been lucky enough to be in a position, with Steve,
0:01:51 > 0:01:52to bring back.
0:01:52 > 0:01:54It's pure luck, I'm afraid.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57The attraction of horror, which goes throughout your life,
0:01:57 > 0:02:01Hammer and Doctor Who, which is kind of horror science-fiction,
0:02:01 > 0:02:03that just started, presumably, the usual way.
0:02:03 > 0:02:06Hiding behind the sofa watching Doctor Who.
0:02:06 > 0:02:11Yes, I remember my first horror film was The Brides of Dracula,
0:02:11 > 0:02:12the Hammer film.
0:02:12 > 0:02:13I was about five.
0:02:13 > 0:02:17My parents had a fantastically lax attitude towards it.
0:02:17 > 0:02:23And Doctor Who, I have an image of myself watching it,
0:02:23 > 0:02:28and from the beginning I was just totally hooked.
0:02:28 > 0:02:32I absolutely fell for it, hook, line and sinker.
0:02:32 > 0:02:35My first memory is the shop window dummies coming to life,
0:02:35 > 0:02:38in Jon Pertwee's first story.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48ALARM BELL
0:02:52 > 0:02:55The Brides of Dracula would have been an 18 certificate.
0:02:55 > 0:02:59- Oh! An X, indeed.- X. So you were 13 years too young?
0:02:59 > 0:03:02But, as we know, Mark, it's not a bad thing.
0:03:04 > 0:03:07It was just never... It was only an issue years later,
0:03:07 > 0:03:10when all of my school essays were about horror.
0:03:10 > 0:03:11Every single one of them.
0:03:11 > 0:03:15I would just twist everything into a sort of horror story.
0:03:15 > 0:03:17Then my parents went to a parent-teachers evening
0:03:17 > 0:03:20and came back in high dudgeon
0:03:20 > 0:03:26and I was banned from watching horror films for, er, one night,
0:03:26 > 0:03:28because it didn't last very long!
0:03:30 > 0:03:36But, I believe very seriously that it's a nature nurture thing,
0:03:36 > 0:03:39what can you say? Children will be frightened,
0:03:39 > 0:03:42if you put a child in an entirely bare room
0:03:42 > 0:03:46free of any scary influences, they would be frightened of the walls,
0:03:46 > 0:03:49or of the person that came to say "Hello" to them.
0:03:49 > 0:03:52Not just if you have a bent that way,
0:03:52 > 0:03:55but that's how children relate to the world.
0:03:55 > 0:03:57Obviously you have to be careful,
0:03:57 > 0:04:02that's one of the things with making Doctor Who these days,
0:04:02 > 0:04:04you're aware of the timeslot.
0:04:04 > 0:04:09You might be going too far, it's about a reassuring kind of scare,
0:04:09 > 0:04:11which is a sort of Ghost Train kind of scare.
0:04:11 > 0:04:13You want to have the thrill
0:04:13 > 0:04:16and then trundle out at the end and get a cuddle from your mum.
0:04:16 > 0:04:18George! George, you have to face your fears.
0:04:18 > 0:04:21You have to face them, now!
0:04:21 > 0:04:22CHILD'S LAUGHTER
0:04:22 > 0:04:24You have to open the cupboard!
0:04:24 > 0:04:27We'll all be trapped here, forever, in a living death!
0:04:27 > 0:04:29George! George! Listen to me.
0:04:29 > 0:04:33George! George! Listen to me!
0:04:33 > 0:04:36George!
0:04:36 > 0:04:39Please! George, you have to end this!
0:04:40 > 0:04:43End this! End it! End it now!
0:04:45 > 0:04:47CHILD'S LAUGHTER
0:04:47 > 0:04:51I always imagined your father being a stern north-eastern father
0:04:51 > 0:04:54like in Alan Sillitoe books, and traditionalist.
0:04:54 > 0:04:57But he seems to have been amazingly liberal about horror movies.
0:04:57 > 0:05:02I tell you, my dad, who's 80 and going strong,
0:05:02 > 0:05:05and fitter than I'll ever be!
0:05:05 > 0:05:12It was... I think it was always really about what he wanted to watch.
0:05:12 > 0:05:15In a funny way his largesse extended to us all.
0:05:15 > 0:05:18Because he was determined to watch it,
0:05:18 > 0:05:21so we were just very lucky to catch those things.
0:05:21 > 0:05:27You grew up opposite this psychiatric hospital,
0:05:27 > 0:05:29did it seem to you in childhood
0:05:29 > 0:05:32as exotic and appropriate as it does to us now?
0:05:32 > 0:05:37It was a psychiatric hospital where my father worked,
0:05:37 > 0:05:39and briefly my mum did.
0:05:41 > 0:05:43I think in retrospect,
0:05:43 > 0:05:48I realised it contributed to a sort of domestic gothic,
0:05:48 > 0:05:50I'd like to call it.
0:05:50 > 0:05:55Only in the sense that it was very normal to us.
0:05:55 > 0:06:02So, um, I think some of the things which have become
0:06:02 > 0:06:04obsessions in my life
0:06:04 > 0:06:07and things which actually make me laugh or interest me,
0:06:07 > 0:06:09do stem from that sort of area.
0:06:09 > 0:06:12I was going to say, if you had written rom-coms, or, indeed,
0:06:12 > 0:06:15sitcoms of a conventional kind, we wouldn't make the connection,
0:06:15 > 0:06:17but it is a very interesting connection.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20It would be an interesting thing if I had, though!
0:06:20 > 0:06:24But, it's not... All I can say, really,
0:06:24 > 0:06:26is that when I was a little boy,
0:06:26 > 0:06:30we used to go swimming there and I would have a haircut there.
0:06:30 > 0:06:35We used to go to watch film shows. I remember watching Zulu, vividly.
0:06:35 > 0:06:39And it was just part of the fabric of how we were growing up.
0:06:39 > 0:06:43So I knew various disturbed patients,
0:06:43 > 0:06:47I didn't go out to tea with them or anything like that,
0:06:47 > 0:06:50but it was just part of our lives.
0:06:50 > 0:06:53But my brother, who is a postman, and a happy person,
0:06:53 > 0:06:56without any preoccupations like this,
0:06:56 > 0:07:01also grew up in the same environment, so it's not entirely down to that.
0:07:01 > 0:07:06To what extent would your parents, your father, bring work home?
0:07:06 > 0:07:08- Would they talk about the hospital? - Oh, yeah.
0:07:08 > 0:07:11And, as I say, we used to go all the time.
0:07:11 > 0:07:13I remember...
0:07:13 > 0:07:19I suppose I remember a kind of childhood awareness,
0:07:19 > 0:07:21and a slight fear of it.
0:07:21 > 0:07:26When my mum worked there, she used to pick me up from school,
0:07:26 > 0:07:28and I would go and stay there for a bit.
0:07:28 > 0:07:33I remember, so vividly, there was a boy called Johnny Shillcock,
0:07:33 > 0:07:37and he had warts all over his hands,
0:07:37 > 0:07:40and I was terrified I was going to catch them,
0:07:40 > 0:07:42I wasn't afraid I'd catch his psychiatric illness,
0:07:42 > 0:07:44but I thought I might catch his warts.
0:07:44 > 0:07:50- That's a formative memory, that is! - Very revealing!
0:07:50 > 0:07:51The speech of that area,
0:07:51 > 0:07:53my grandparents are from the North East,
0:07:53 > 0:07:57- and I still have an aunt and uncle in Newton Aycliffe, actually. - Oh, really?- Even now.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00So I grew up very aware of those speech rhythms,
0:08:00 > 0:08:02but quite good for a writer,
0:08:02 > 0:08:05a very distinctive form of speech and there are all those surveys
0:08:05 > 0:08:09showing that people want to be sold insurance on the phone by Geordies.
0:08:09 > 0:08:15Well, there was a time when Scots, I think Scots are still top,
0:08:15 > 0:08:19and I think Liverpudlian is probably bottom in terms of trustworthiness.
0:08:19 > 0:08:21North-eastern wasn't there for a while,
0:08:21 > 0:08:23but it's come up through the ranks.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26Of course, it's not a Geordie.
0:08:26 > 0:08:29It's Durham, and people get very particular about those things.
0:08:29 > 0:08:31It's actually a much softer accent,
0:08:31 > 0:08:33and Geordie is very difficult.
0:08:33 > 0:08:38I find it... I remember, I have lost jobs because it's too hard to do,
0:08:38 > 0:08:41they always get Tim Healy to do any voice over.
0:08:41 > 0:08:44- So you can't do Geordie? - Oh, it's very, very hard.
0:08:44 > 0:08:47It's too hard to do, unless you're...
0:08:47 > 0:08:50You have to be very confident about it,
0:08:50 > 0:08:52because it's actually very specific,
0:08:52 > 0:08:55and much more exaggerated than you imagine.
0:08:55 > 0:08:59But Durham is, really it's like Vic Reeves' accent,
0:08:59 > 0:09:03- Vic Reeves is from Darlington.- Yeah. - Which is near me.
0:09:03 > 0:09:05It's just a softer kind of thing,
0:09:05 > 0:09:10it's not "aboot" or any of those kinds of sounds,
0:09:10 > 0:09:14because it's closer to Yorkshire, I think.
0:09:14 > 0:09:17Have you modulated the accent for acting purposes?
0:09:17 > 0:09:21If we had known you as a child, how would you have spoken?
0:09:21 > 0:09:25I remember being accused of being posh when I was little.
0:09:25 > 0:09:29Of course, I wasn't, but maybe comparatively.
0:09:29 > 0:09:32- You were clearly middle-class though, weren't you?- Oh, no.
0:09:32 > 0:09:35- Really?- No. No. I refute that.
0:09:35 > 0:09:37No, not at all.
0:09:37 > 0:09:42My dad was a hospital engineer and my mum was a secretary,
0:09:42 > 0:09:46and we were from sturdy mining stock for 1,000 generations.
0:09:46 > 0:09:53In fact, my dad was the first of his family not to go down the pit.
0:09:53 > 0:09:55My dad and his brother.
0:09:55 > 0:10:00They were on the surface, but before that, no...
0:10:00 > 0:10:06I must have been consciously trying to posh myself up a bit, I suppose.
0:10:06 > 0:10:11One of the things that got me into writing was I wrote an essay
0:10:11 > 0:10:14in the third year juniors.
0:10:14 > 0:10:16And everybody suddenly went crackers about it.
0:10:16 > 0:10:18Oddly enough it was about Wimbledon.
0:10:18 > 0:10:21I've never really been interested in Wimbledon.
0:10:21 > 0:10:23I just put loads of the big words I knew into it.
0:10:23 > 0:10:27And they went crazy and it won a prize and all sorts,
0:10:27 > 0:10:28then I was, sort of, launched,
0:10:28 > 0:10:31and my headmaster started calling me "Merlin".
0:10:31 > 0:10:34The only nickname, to my knowledge, I've ever had.
0:10:34 > 0:10:37And it was a beatification,
0:10:37 > 0:10:42they had decided I was going to do things.
0:10:44 > 0:10:49I can certainly remember wanting to be different.
0:10:49 > 0:10:50There are huge surveys now
0:10:50 > 0:10:53about the significance of what position you are in the family,
0:10:53 > 0:10:57and your relationship to siblings and if affects how you turn out.
0:10:57 > 0:11:00So where did you figure in the family tree?
0:11:00 > 0:11:02Er, youngest.
0:11:02 > 0:11:08And to my knowledge, not spoiled, despite what the surveys say.
0:11:08 > 0:11:12No, I was a happy accident.
0:11:12 > 0:11:14I remember my mum telling me years later,
0:11:14 > 0:11:17I was slightly appalled to discover that!
0:11:17 > 0:11:22- You wanted to be planned, did you? - I suppose you always do, don't you?
0:11:22 > 0:11:27You often read those things about the effect on people
0:11:27 > 0:11:30when they realise they're adopted, it must be earth-shattering.
0:11:30 > 0:11:34I remember thinking, it's that awful thing about chance, isn't it?
0:11:34 > 0:11:38Chance is so scary, you could have been another egg.
0:11:40 > 0:11:42It would have made such a difference to everything.
0:11:42 > 0:11:46I remember thinking, "I think I would have liked to have been planned."
0:11:46 > 0:11:47Was there quite a big gap?
0:11:47 > 0:11:52My brother is three years older and my sister was seven years older.
0:11:52 > 0:11:54So, not really, no. I suppose not.
0:11:54 > 0:11:59And your siblings' attitude, were they doting towards you or not?
0:11:59 > 0:12:03Well, my brother, who I'm very close to now,
0:12:03 > 0:12:06but we fought like cats and dogs, as you're meant to.
0:12:06 > 0:12:08- That's normal, isn't it? - It sort of is and it isn't.
0:12:08 > 0:12:12We just had nothing in common and for a long time
0:12:12 > 0:12:17it was a big source of that sort of silly kind of conflict, really.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20I think time bruises you in so many ways,
0:12:20 > 0:12:23and we still have nothing in common,
0:12:23 > 0:12:27but we just get along fine and we have a good laugh.
0:12:27 > 0:12:32My sister, seven years is quite a long time, I think.
0:12:32 > 0:12:36I mean, when I was five,
0:12:36 > 0:12:39- she was considerably into... - Big school.- Big school.
0:12:39 > 0:12:41And that makes a difference,
0:12:41 > 0:12:46there was a sort of inevitable distance in that way.
0:12:46 > 0:12:48You and your brother are a perfect study
0:12:48 > 0:12:51for the argument about nature versus nurture.
0:12:51 > 0:12:53You had broadly the same nurture
0:12:53 > 0:12:56and yet you turned out so completely different.
0:12:56 > 0:12:59Were you seen as, in inverted commas,
0:12:59 > 0:13:01with all its connotations, as "different"?
0:13:01 > 0:13:05Of course! I was seen as a poof, I'm sure, by most people!
0:13:05 > 0:13:08- But your brother thought that, did he?- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:13:08 > 0:13:12I think he always did. He probably knew before I did.
0:13:12 > 0:13:15But, erm...
0:13:15 > 0:13:19Well, yes, absolutely. I was, yeah, different.
0:13:19 > 0:13:24But it was to do with things like not wanting to play outside
0:13:24 > 0:13:26in the summer holidays.
0:13:26 > 0:13:30Watching telly with the curtains drawn.
0:13:30 > 0:13:33It was all of the things I have made a career out of.
0:13:33 > 0:13:37I've prefer to look at it as a long revenge against PE teachers,
0:13:37 > 0:13:40who always told me it would never come to anything.
0:13:40 > 0:13:46I always had a very unhealthy relationship with sport.
0:13:46 > 0:13:52I just couldn't see the point of being made to do rough games
0:13:52 > 0:13:56when I could have been inside reading books or talking about horror films.
0:13:56 > 0:13:59My friend and I used to walk around the perimeter of the pitch,
0:13:59 > 0:14:01talking about Hammer.
0:14:01 > 0:14:05Until the inevitable moment that a heavy wet football
0:14:05 > 0:14:07would smack against our faces.
0:14:07 > 0:14:12I still believe I have a supernatural ability to attract footballs.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15I can walk past as an adult and a ball will hit me.
0:14:15 > 0:14:17THEY LAUGH
0:14:17 > 0:14:20We now know from various details and the Independent's list
0:14:20 > 0:14:23of the 100 most prominent gay and lesbian people in Britain,
0:14:23 > 0:14:26that you're gay. At what stage did you know growing up?
0:14:26 > 0:14:30I'm sad because I've dropped to number 40.
0:14:30 > 0:14:32I've obviously got to be gayer this year,
0:14:32 > 0:14:34I thought I was being gay this year. 38 to 40.
0:14:34 > 0:14:40I can remember, hmm...
0:14:40 > 0:14:43I suppose I've always known.
0:14:43 > 0:14:46That's an odd thing to say, because when you are that small
0:14:46 > 0:14:49you don't really know what you're talking about.
0:14:49 > 0:14:53Except I remember having a crush on Stuart Damon from The Champions,
0:14:53 > 0:14:56when I was very little.
0:14:56 > 0:14:58It was about, um...
0:14:58 > 0:15:01I don't know, what can you say?
0:15:01 > 0:15:06Whatever is the childhood version of fancying someone,
0:15:06 > 0:15:10it can't be quite that, but there was just something about him.
0:15:10 > 0:15:17And then other men had that effect on me.
0:15:17 > 0:15:22But I never really went through much of a denial period, I think.
0:15:22 > 0:15:26Even in your generation there was a fear, often,
0:15:26 > 0:15:28of telling parents and people knowing.
0:15:28 > 0:15:30- Did you have that?- Oh, yeah, yeah.
0:15:32 > 0:15:34I dreaded it.
0:15:34 > 0:15:38The dreaded coming out conversation.
0:15:38 > 0:15:42When it finally happened, it was a bit unexpected.
0:15:45 > 0:15:48I suppose I had rehearsed various scenarios for years,
0:15:48 > 0:15:50and then I was visiting home.
0:15:50 > 0:15:52How old were you?
0:15:52 > 0:15:54I was about 22.
0:15:54 > 0:15:58So comparatively late, in that way.
0:15:58 > 0:16:02I was visiting home from college,
0:16:02 > 0:16:07and one night my mum just asked me.
0:16:07 > 0:16:11And I think that's the one thing I hadn't expected,
0:16:11 > 0:16:13that it would go that way around.
0:16:13 > 0:16:16It was fine. Then I said, "I had better tell Dad."
0:16:16 > 0:16:18She said, "No! It will kill him!"
0:16:18 > 0:16:22Then, I went back to London, and I remember this so well,
0:16:22 > 0:16:26I rang her up and she was just going through various news
0:16:26 > 0:16:29and she said, "Oh, your uncle Jack came to see us,
0:16:29 > 0:16:32"we've had snow, I told your dad, erm..."
0:16:32 > 0:16:34She just popped it in, like that.
0:16:34 > 0:16:37And then I remember having to go home
0:16:37 > 0:16:42and, sort of, I remember going to see my sister and talking about it.
0:16:42 > 0:16:46It was absolutely fine, but in a funny kind of way, erm,
0:16:48 > 0:16:50I slightly stumbled over it.
0:16:50 > 0:16:54I suppose I had expected it to be this great big moment.
0:16:54 > 0:16:57It was sort of slightly fudged.
0:16:57 > 0:17:01I think in a way I had to do it again about a year later.
0:17:01 > 0:17:04It was one of those things where it was suddenly, "Right, fine..."
0:17:04 > 0:17:06and it was dealt with.
0:17:06 > 0:17:10But, you know, things have changed so much, I find it astonishing.
0:17:10 > 0:17:13This is one of the things that is easy to forget
0:17:13 > 0:17:17about how different this country is in the last 15 or 20 years.
0:17:17 > 0:17:22When my partner, Ian, and I got married,
0:17:22 > 0:17:26it was an unimaginable thing not so long ago.
0:17:26 > 0:17:31For both of our families to come together and treat it as a wedding
0:17:31 > 0:17:35and have, you know, absolutely no qualms and have a fantastic time.
0:17:35 > 0:17:38That's an incredible achievement, I think.
0:17:38 > 0:17:41I always wonder about that, because it's happened so quickly.
0:17:41 > 0:17:44- If the battle won, now?- No!
0:17:44 > 0:17:49It's a very seductive idea that everything's fine,
0:17:49 > 0:17:56and that it's incredibly easy for anyone to come out these days.
0:17:56 > 0:18:00You can get that sort of thing from a metropolitan mindset,
0:18:00 > 0:18:03rather than, despite the internet and everything,
0:18:03 > 0:18:07there are obviously people feeling very isolated,
0:18:07 > 0:18:09not just in tiny villages.
0:18:09 > 0:18:13In other communities, because of their family circumstances,
0:18:13 > 0:18:16or because of how they've been brought up,
0:18:16 > 0:18:18or particularly religion, I think. Not at all.
0:18:18 > 0:18:21You ended up at drama school, though?
0:18:21 > 0:18:24I auditioned for a couple of drama schools and didn't get in.
0:18:24 > 0:18:29I remember one, God! I still blush at this memory.
0:18:29 > 0:18:33It was the Drama Centre, which had a fearsome reputation
0:18:33 > 0:18:37for breaking down people's personalities
0:18:37 > 0:18:39and then building them back up.
0:18:39 > 0:18:42It was run by a man called Christopher Fettis,
0:18:42 > 0:18:45and I was very excited about this audition.
0:18:45 > 0:18:49I remember going, you had to prepare two pieces,
0:18:49 > 0:18:51Shakespeare and a modern, I would imagine.
0:18:51 > 0:18:55I did the Zoo Story, Edward Albee,
0:18:55 > 0:18:59I can't remember what the other one was.
0:18:59 > 0:19:03But it was just a little black stage with a panel.
0:19:03 > 0:19:06I did one and he said, "Thank you very much, Mr Gates.
0:19:06 > 0:19:08"Would you change your set, please?"
0:19:08 > 0:19:14There was literally a black block, and I didn't know what he meant.
0:19:14 > 0:19:16I thought it was some sort of theatrical term,
0:19:16 > 0:19:20I imagine he meant would you now go on to your second piece.
0:19:20 > 0:19:22So I took a breath and did the second one.
0:19:22 > 0:19:24And like that he said, "Thank you very much."
0:19:24 > 0:19:26I sat down and he said,
0:19:26 > 0:19:29"Thank you very much. Tell me, when I asked you to change your set,
0:19:29 > 0:19:31"why did you choose to completely ignore me?"
0:19:33 > 0:19:37And he utterly destroyed me. Destroyed! It was HORRIBLE.
0:19:37 > 0:19:40I remember getting on the Tube, shaking.
0:19:40 > 0:19:42Thinking, "I'm not going to do this."
0:19:42 > 0:19:46But, you know, in classic style, I bounced back.
0:19:46 > 0:19:50But it was horrible. So when this opportunity to come to this...
0:19:50 > 0:19:53When had you made the decision that you wanted to be an actor?
0:19:53 > 0:19:55Because that's quite a big step.
0:19:55 > 0:20:00To be honest, the only thing I ever wanted to do was act and write.
0:20:00 > 0:20:02It sort of coalesced when I was at school.
0:20:02 > 0:20:04That's from looking at the credits on Doctor Who
0:20:04 > 0:20:06- and that kind of thing?- Very much.
0:20:06 > 0:20:08It was certainly an ambition
0:20:08 > 0:20:11and obviously I went through all those things, as everyone ever does,
0:20:11 > 0:20:15of being told you can do it as a fallback, you need a fallback thing,
0:20:15 > 0:20:18or maybe you should just do am-dram,
0:20:18 > 0:20:22and there would be an outlet there, or whatever. Those sorts of things.
0:20:22 > 0:20:24All perfectly understandable and perfectly fine,
0:20:24 > 0:20:29but I think it was definitely to do with the fact that academically
0:20:29 > 0:20:33I couldn't have possibly become a scientist or anything like that.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35Lots of people I know, like Ben Miller,
0:20:35 > 0:20:37who's a bloody astrophysicist!
0:20:37 > 0:20:38A proper one!
0:20:38 > 0:20:40There was never any question, really.
0:20:40 > 0:20:44I couldn't really do anything else, and happily that's worked out.
0:20:44 > 0:20:46So, this degree course came up,
0:20:46 > 0:20:50and it had quite a reputation, Bretton Hall.
0:20:50 > 0:20:56What happened when I got there was that I met Steve Pemberton
0:20:56 > 0:20:59and then Reece Shearsmith was the year below
0:20:59 > 0:21:02and Jeremy Dyson was at Leeds University,
0:21:02 > 0:21:05of which Bretton was a satellite college.
0:21:07 > 0:21:11The course itself wasn't good at all.
0:21:11 > 0:21:15Essentially, we just got on with it.
0:21:15 > 0:21:18We put on our own shows, like in a Cliff Richard movie,
0:21:18 > 0:21:21because we found the actual course pretty unfulfilling.
0:21:21 > 0:21:24And completely without intending to,
0:21:24 > 0:21:28it gave us a great grounding in just doing it ourselves.
0:21:28 > 0:21:34Which, it really was, the fulcrum of The League of Gentlemen.
0:21:34 > 0:21:36Was it creative love at first sight,
0:21:36 > 0:21:40did something spark off early on between the four of you?
0:21:40 > 0:21:41Yes, definitely.
0:21:41 > 0:21:45Before there was any intention of doing anything with it,
0:21:45 > 0:21:48Steve and I were doing things at Bretton.
0:21:48 > 0:21:52We were doing plays for the National Student Drama Festival
0:21:52 > 0:21:55and things like that.
0:21:55 > 0:21:58What it was was a shared sensibility,
0:21:58 > 0:22:02Steve is from Chorley, Reece is from Hull, Jeremy's from Leeds.
0:22:02 > 0:22:05We just knew what we were talking about.
0:22:05 > 0:22:08We knew, in that total shorthand kind of way,
0:22:08 > 0:22:10the sort of places we'd all been brought up.
0:22:10 > 0:22:14Obviously there are regional differences but it's the North.
0:22:14 > 0:22:19And I do think, having for years denied it, there is a difference.
0:22:19 > 0:22:21And I'm rather pleased with it now.
0:22:21 > 0:22:24I used to be very cross, in the early days,
0:22:24 > 0:22:29we were always described as "These four Northern lads."
0:22:29 > 0:22:32Alan Bennett always talks about the same thing.
0:22:32 > 0:22:34It would never happen the other way round, never!
0:22:34 > 0:22:38These four southern poofs! I don't think they'd ever say that!
0:22:38 > 0:22:43So, it's still very much coming from a slightly skewed
0:22:43 > 0:22:47Southern metropolitan perspective. This other. But it is different.
0:22:47 > 0:22:49But it's interesting, that.
0:22:49 > 0:22:51Very often people in the North complain of the media,
0:22:51 > 0:22:53perhaps rightly, that there's a southern bias.
0:22:53 > 0:22:56I had to write an article about this, once. It amazed me.
0:22:56 > 0:22:58When you write about the history of comedy,
0:22:58 > 0:23:01particularly television comedy in this country
0:23:01 > 0:23:05the huge majority comes from the North in different ways.
0:23:05 > 0:23:10Alan Bennett, Victoria Wood, Alan Bleasdale, Jack Rosenthal,
0:23:10 > 0:23:13Dick Clement, Ian La Frenais.
0:23:13 > 0:23:16There is, and I think that's one of the important distinctions,
0:23:16 > 0:23:21there is something about Northern speech and life which does,
0:23:21 > 0:23:23which seems to be very fertile for comedy.
0:23:23 > 0:23:27Absolutely, yeah. You're absolutely right. It's a brilliant thing.
0:23:27 > 0:23:31There's a hugely rich seam going right back to music hall
0:23:31 > 0:23:33and variety of those kind of...
0:23:33 > 0:23:37I think it's people who were tested by fire.
0:23:37 > 0:23:41And I don't just mean the war, I mean like Glasgow Empire!
0:23:41 > 0:23:44But there's a kind of, there's an amazing kind of...
0:23:44 > 0:23:47..eight shows a day kind of solidity to them.
0:23:47 > 0:23:52It's what Ken Dodd represents. I remember talking to someone at Sunderland Empire once, actually.
0:23:52 > 0:23:55- That they'd tried to get... - Which is famously supposed to be
0:23:55 > 0:23:59the hardest place for any comedian to play - and Glasgow.
0:23:59 > 0:24:01- Glasgow and Sunderland.- Yeah.- Yeah.
0:24:01 > 0:24:06But someone there, they'd tried to book
0:24:06 > 0:24:09some very famous current comic.
0:24:09 > 0:24:12And he was going to do like an hour and three quarters for however much.
0:24:12 > 0:24:18They laughed down the phone and said, "I can get Doddy to do 10 hours for that!"
0:24:18 > 0:24:22And it's true. I mean, in the old days he used to send people home
0:24:22 > 0:24:25to put their kids to bed, and then ask them to come back. You know.
0:24:25 > 0:24:29Before The League Of Gentlemen took off, there was a Doctor Who period
0:24:29 > 0:24:32where you wrote Doctor Who spin-off books
0:24:32 > 0:24:38and unofficial Doctor Who straight-to-video releases, which are unavailable!
0:24:38 > 0:24:41Was that... It was obviously the work of a fan.
0:24:41 > 0:24:45Was that a conscious apprenticeship in writing and directing?
0:24:45 > 0:24:48No. It was, eh...
0:24:48 > 0:24:54It was what I think everybody faces, which is, what on earth am I going to do with my life?
0:24:54 > 0:24:56Because I had... I knew what I wanted to do.
0:24:56 > 0:25:01And I do remember, um, I do remember saying,
0:25:01 > 0:25:03"What I would love to happen
0:25:03 > 0:25:05"is to become well-known for something
0:25:05 > 0:25:08"which would then give me opportunities."
0:25:08 > 0:25:11That's actually what happened, which is incredible. But...
0:25:11 > 0:25:16I mean, doing - certainly writing the Doctor Who books,
0:25:16 > 0:25:21uh, what happened is the series came off the air and the BBC gave the license to Virgin Books.
0:25:21 > 0:25:25They continued. So in a way that was what I'd always wanted to do,
0:25:25 > 0:25:29because it was like writing a script for a story that was never made. Yet!
0:25:29 > 0:25:35Um... That felt completely part of what I wanted to do as a writer.
0:25:35 > 0:25:37It was brilliant, a dream come true.
0:25:37 > 0:25:41The videos... had a similar sort of thing.
0:25:41 > 0:25:46There wasn't a series, but some people wanted to see Who-ish things.
0:25:46 > 0:25:53Um, and, you know, I would never be disparaging about them.
0:25:53 > 0:25:56Principally because I got to work with Jon Pertwee. At the same time
0:25:56 > 0:26:00I was just kind of scrambling around for, for a way through.
0:26:00 > 0:26:05Because, um... because acting jobs obviously were scarce on the ground.
0:26:05 > 0:26:11The first TV job I did was in the north-east. It was a series called Harry,
0:26:11 > 0:26:14the sort of follow up to Boon with Michael Elphick.
0:26:14 > 0:26:18And they actually advertised for Darlington-based actors.
0:26:18 > 0:26:21So of course, I used my parents' address, and I got it.
0:26:21 > 0:26:25Uh-huh. Mr Sherman is in a meeting.
0:26:25 > 0:26:28- They're just fetching him.- OK.
0:26:29 > 0:26:32And then immediately afterwards I was offered a Catherine Cookson.
0:26:32 > 0:26:36I thought, right, here we go! Then I didn't work for two years.
0:26:36 > 0:26:39So, um... Yeah, it was very much a sort of...
0:26:39 > 0:26:42..it was a sort of scattergun thing of, of, of...
0:26:42 > 0:26:44This is vaguely - I know this is what I want to do,
0:26:44 > 0:26:47but how I actually get there, who knows?
0:26:47 > 0:26:51And League Of Gentlemen built in what is a fairly familiar route now
0:26:51 > 0:26:57through stage, Edinburgh fringe, BBC radio, BBC TV.
0:26:57 > 0:27:01Did you have a very clear sense of the route you wanted to go?
0:27:01 > 0:27:06Um... I mean, that was then the classical route. Certainly that's what we wanted to do.
0:27:06 > 0:27:10I do remember very clearly
0:27:10 > 0:27:15a day when I thought, I am not going to be on the dole when I'm 30.
0:27:15 > 0:27:19I'm going to make this work. We're going to make this work.
0:27:19 > 0:27:22- How old were you then?- Eh, 29!
0:27:22 > 0:27:25Sorry, that was a terrible cheap joke! Eh, no, I was, um...
0:27:25 > 0:27:28I was about...
0:27:28 > 0:27:31..um, I don't know. 26, 27, something like that.
0:27:31 > 0:27:36So, um, I had a very sort of clear moment of like,
0:27:36 > 0:27:39...this could be it.
0:27:39 > 0:27:43Uh, because we did these shows,
0:27:43 > 0:27:47five shows, um, with a friend of ours
0:27:47 > 0:27:50who was at Bretton with us and then left to go to Central.
0:27:50 > 0:27:54He now directs The Catherine Tate Show and The Inbetweeners, Gordon Anderson.
0:27:54 > 0:27:56And he put it together,
0:27:56 > 0:28:01because he had a five-night gap in a festival of fringe shows that had already been on.
0:28:01 > 0:28:06And he couldn't get his cast back together, and he asked us to put on a comedy show.
0:28:06 > 0:28:09Again, it's so like a Cliff Richard movie, isn't it? It stinks.
0:28:09 > 0:28:14But it went very well. And we suddenly thought, maybe this is what we could do.
0:28:14 > 0:28:17We all grew up with Python and Not The Nine O'Clock News.
0:28:17 > 0:28:20The idea of a team comedy,
0:28:20 > 0:28:24for us as actors, to do character comedy,
0:28:24 > 0:28:27which is what we'd always loved, and those kind of...
0:28:27 > 0:28:29..performances just seemed like a natural thing.
0:28:29 > 0:28:33And brilliantly, after many years of the dominance of stand-up,
0:28:33 > 0:28:35character comedy was just coming back in.
0:28:35 > 0:28:40Steve Coogan and John Thomson won the Perrier with character comedy.
0:28:40 > 0:28:42It was just like, the time.
0:28:42 > 0:28:46Um, so it suddenly felt like the right way to go.
0:28:46 > 0:28:50One of my happiest memories of the League is, um,
0:28:50 > 0:28:54going location hunting for what became Royston Vasey.
0:28:54 > 0:28:56We went off in a van for a week.
0:28:56 > 0:28:59And we basically were all outdoing each other
0:28:59 > 0:29:03to try and recommend the worst place we could possibly go to.
0:29:03 > 0:29:05LAUGHTER
0:29:05 > 0:29:08And in the end Hadfield is where we shot it.
0:29:08 > 0:29:11It was a brilliant combination, because actually
0:29:11 > 0:29:14it has the other thing about the North not much celebrated,
0:29:14 > 0:29:18which is that it's incredibly beautiful in a very particular way.
0:29:18 > 0:29:23That little town with its high street and amazing moorland.
0:29:23 > 0:29:29The way it developed, the drag acting and the intense disguise,
0:29:29 > 0:29:33quite painful, I mean, the amount of tape you had to have on your face.
0:29:33 > 0:29:38There was a lot of horror in the DNA of The League Of Gentlemen,
0:29:38 > 0:29:43and a lot of that was to do with all of our childhood obsessions with Lon Chaney Senior
0:29:43 > 0:29:48and his The Man Of A Thousand Faces. It was a great big, um, toy box to play with.
0:29:48 > 0:29:52So right from the beginning we wanted to do as much as we could.
0:29:52 > 0:29:56What's interesting is, to this day, people think it's about prosthetics.
0:29:56 > 0:29:58We never used any prosthetics, never.
0:29:58 > 0:30:05It's all just bits of... the local nose is fish skin,
0:30:05 > 0:30:09glued up and pulled down - we tried everything like that.
0:30:09 > 0:30:14It was about that wonderful thing of loving those grotesque characters
0:30:14 > 0:30:16in a kind of Dickensian way.
0:30:16 > 0:30:20Those are the ones everyone wants to play for obvious reasons.
0:30:20 > 0:30:24In the writing of it, you would start grimacing
0:30:24 > 0:30:26and imagining faces, would you?
0:30:26 > 0:30:30No, it was more...
0:30:30 > 0:30:33There was a lot of observational stuff,
0:30:33 > 0:30:36that sounds ridiculous, it's not like the Comedy Store.
0:30:36 > 0:30:43"I saw this guy, he ran a shop that had been there for 300 years."
0:30:43 > 0:30:51We were hugely influenced by Clement, La Frenais,
0:30:51 > 0:30:53Alan Bennett, Victoria Wood
0:30:53 > 0:30:57and those speech patterns and those Northern realities.
0:30:57 > 0:31:01So, even though there is a lot of grotesquery,
0:31:01 > 0:31:04it is often based on a germ of something real.
0:31:04 > 0:31:07But for the inciting incident of the local shop...
0:31:07 > 0:31:10As soon as that phrase, a local shop for local people,
0:31:10 > 0:31:14everyone recognised what that was, they had been in that shop.
0:31:15 > 0:31:19What we did was, we extrapolated from it
0:31:19 > 0:31:22so what's really funny about that real incident
0:31:22 > 0:31:27is that four incredibly inoffensive young men went to the shop in Rottingdean
0:31:27 > 0:31:31and it was like Straw Dogs in the mind of the owner.
0:31:31 > 0:31:35I remember coming out and she said, "I have a husband, you know."
0:31:35 > 0:31:37It all came from there.
0:31:37 > 0:31:39What's going on, what's all this shouting?
0:31:39 > 0:31:40We'll have no trouble here.
0:31:40 > 0:31:43- They're strangers.- Not local?
0:31:43 > 0:31:46He wears a crown and build new roads.
0:31:46 > 0:31:49- Look, there's been a misunderstanding.- Your wife is...
0:31:49 > 0:31:51- No good?- Over-reacting.
0:31:51 > 0:31:55We just need you to look at these proposals, that's all.
0:31:55 > 0:32:00We just remember plonking all kinds of things into that scenario.
0:32:03 > 0:32:07Then other ones like Les McQueen, failed musician,
0:32:07 > 0:32:11very much based on real people
0:32:11 > 0:32:15and that thing you can only get in real life,
0:32:15 > 0:32:21an amazing turn of phrase, overheard in a bus queue or something.
0:32:21 > 0:32:25Really profound sometimes and desperately sad.
0:32:25 > 0:32:30I still remember when we did some of them in front of an audience,
0:32:30 > 0:32:34the moment when Les McQueen hands over that tape,
0:32:34 > 0:32:37he pulls it out of the drawer and he has hundreds of them
0:32:37 > 0:32:41and the kid he's given it to has just left it.
0:32:41 > 0:32:44There's a huge "ah" from the audience which I hated it at the time
0:32:44 > 0:32:45but I rather like it now
0:32:45 > 0:32:49because I can distinctly hear my mum in the audience.
0:32:49 > 0:32:52That pathos is something we all responded to
0:32:52 > 0:32:56in other people's work and I wanted to capture.
0:32:56 > 0:32:58Nice to meet you Mr McQueen.
0:33:01 > 0:33:04Good luck, son. God bless.
0:33:07 > 0:33:09It's shit business.
0:33:12 > 0:33:14AUDIENCE: Ah.
0:33:14 > 0:33:16You'll find out.
0:33:16 > 0:33:21It's pretty dark stuff, often, The League Of Gentlemen.
0:33:21 > 0:33:25Where there any problems with the BBC of censorship or concern?
0:33:25 > 0:33:28The joyous thing about the BBC,
0:33:28 > 0:33:34I may be able to say, in those days, now, frighteningly.
0:33:34 > 0:33:38They were amazingly supportive in terms of not interfering
0:33:38 > 0:33:43because once we had got it through, once it was a hit,
0:33:43 > 0:33:46they didn't just go, you can do what you like.
0:33:46 > 0:33:49But they were brilliant about that sort of thing.
0:33:49 > 0:33:53I remember John Plowman, our blessed executive producer,
0:33:53 > 0:33:56always came with a sheaf of notes about a minute before transmission
0:33:56 > 0:34:00and we would just go, piff, because there was nothing you could do.
0:34:00 > 0:34:03People always talk about the darkness of it
0:34:03 > 0:34:06and there are moments now,
0:34:06 > 0:34:11whenever I catch it on the telly, especially in the Christmas special
0:34:11 > 0:34:15when Papa Lazu as Santa kidnaps Bernice's mother in that flashback.
0:34:15 > 0:34:18It's horrible actually, it rather disturbs me.
0:34:18 > 0:34:22But most of it is more cartoony.
0:34:22 > 0:34:26The real darkness is in the sadder stuff, the bleaker stuff.
0:34:26 > 0:34:27That is properly dark.
0:34:28 > 0:34:31- I couldn't find them, pop.- What do you mean, you couldn't find them?
0:34:31 > 0:34:33- Go and look harder. - I think I should stay here.
0:34:33 > 0:34:37Do as you're told, you little pig!
0:34:37 > 0:34:40I'm sorry, I really have to leave.
0:34:40 > 0:34:45You see? She doesn't love you any more.
0:34:47 > 0:34:50Well, you cannot trust a woman.
0:34:53 > 0:34:57Where there Beatles-like or Python-like tensions within League of Gentlemen?
0:34:57 > 0:35:00Sort of.
0:35:00 > 0:35:05We never really rowed, I think we sublimated quite a lot.
0:35:05 > 0:35:08I used to write with Jeremy and Steven Reece,
0:35:08 > 0:35:12I had originally started with Steve years before.
0:35:12 > 0:35:14We did cross-pollinate.
0:35:14 > 0:35:18The big thing is, it was always in an overview.
0:35:18 > 0:35:21We did once try writing as a four which was hysterically disastrous.
0:35:21 > 0:35:23What do you do?
0:35:23 > 0:35:26Someone ends up having to hold the pen and make the tea
0:35:26 > 0:35:28because I think, actually,
0:35:28 > 0:35:32Jeremy and I used to be lost in admiration for Steven Reece's facility
0:35:32 > 0:35:34with those amazing double acts
0:35:34 > 0:35:37which they essentially wrote for themselves to do.
0:35:37 > 0:35:42But at the same time, I think the stuff that Jeremy and I used to do
0:35:42 > 0:35:46we used to think of ourselves as Jagger/Richards
0:35:46 > 0:35:51and Lennon/McCartney in our amused moments.
0:35:51 > 0:35:53There were only a few times, I remember,
0:35:53 > 0:35:56thinking we'd done something really good and it didn't get a laugh.
0:35:56 > 0:36:00There was one character, we spent ages on a drag queen
0:36:00 > 0:36:03called Billy Van Day, he was kind of like Danny La Rue.
0:36:04 > 0:36:10I'd seen recently this old clip of Danny La Rue on Bob Monkhouse's show.
0:36:10 > 0:36:12It suddenly occurred to me how different things used to be
0:36:12 > 0:36:15because he'd come in in this dress and a black wig and go,
0:36:15 > 0:36:17"I'm Joan Collins, that is my name!
0:36:17 > 0:36:20"I'm Joan Collins and Marlene Dietrich."
0:36:20 > 0:36:22And that was kind of it!
0:36:23 > 0:36:26So we'd go with this drag character who was kind of like that,
0:36:26 > 0:36:29there wasn't really much of an impersonation going on.
0:36:29 > 0:36:33We thought it was utterly hysterical. Nothing. Never went anywhere.
0:36:33 > 0:36:37But, no, it was very happy generally,
0:36:37 > 0:36:39because I think we were all
0:36:39 > 0:36:42very much going in the same direction.
0:36:42 > 0:36:45That's when collaborations work like that.
0:36:45 > 0:36:48When we made our Christmas special, we just literally said
0:36:48 > 0:36:52we want to make a Christmas special and it was the right time to do it.
0:36:52 > 0:36:55I think that's still the best thing we ever did because it's
0:36:55 > 0:37:00utterly born of love of horror and especially portmanteau horror films.
0:37:00 > 0:37:05What we found was a unique moment in the life of that series
0:37:05 > 0:37:08when the characters were well enough established to be
0:37:08 > 0:37:10the protagonists of a horror film.
0:37:10 > 0:37:14It wasn't like making a generic portmanteau, we could do a portmanteau
0:37:14 > 0:37:18about our series and that's why I think it worked so strong.
0:37:18 > 0:37:21We wrote it really quickly because we had always wanted to do it.
0:37:21 > 0:37:23CHOKING
0:37:23 > 0:37:25- Lee?- What's happening?
0:37:25 > 0:37:27Lee?
0:37:27 > 0:37:30Lee? Lee!
0:37:30 > 0:37:33- What's happening?- Aagh, aagh, Lee!
0:37:36 > 0:37:40Oh, someone help! Lee, you're bleeding, help!
0:37:43 > 0:37:47- Donna?- Problem solved, Stella.
0:37:47 > 0:37:49What's this?
0:37:50 > 0:37:52This is the price.
0:37:54 > 0:37:56Help! Help!
0:37:56 > 0:38:00She's murdered me husband! Help!
0:38:04 > 0:38:06It's not my fault!
0:38:06 > 0:38:07SCREAMS
0:38:07 > 0:38:10And you are not disbanded, the League of Gentlemen?
0:38:10 > 0:38:13No, we are like Abba. We've never officially.
0:38:13 > 0:38:18Not at all. When we finished the film and the second tour, 2005,
0:38:18 > 0:38:24we had a meeting. I remember this. This was a funny moment.
0:38:24 > 0:38:27We did Derren Brown's show in the morning and then we had agreed
0:38:27 > 0:38:31to have lunch afterwards to talk about what was next.
0:38:31 > 0:38:36And I remember thinking, how will be going to get round to this issue?
0:38:36 > 0:38:40So we did Derren's show and then we went to this spaghetti house
0:38:40 > 0:38:41across the road and sat down.
0:38:41 > 0:38:44A man came and gave us a jug of tap water and Steve said,
0:38:44 > 0:38:47"So, what are we going to do?" And that was it straightaway!
0:38:49 > 0:38:54But really, we would love to do something together again. But it's...
0:38:54 > 0:38:58I'm very pleased that we didn't fall out or anything like that
0:38:58 > 0:39:02because it's an amazingly important thing to me
0:39:02 > 0:39:04and I owe it absolutely everything.
0:39:04 > 0:39:06And them everything.
0:39:06 > 0:39:09But we've all got different ambitions
0:39:09 > 0:39:16and I think far better to work through those and enjoy that
0:39:16 > 0:39:21and then come back together positively, than to strain to keep
0:39:21 > 0:39:25- together when people are heading in a slightly different directions. - And Monty Python,
0:39:25 > 0:39:27I think it is also accepted that they were competitive
0:39:27 > 0:39:30about the individual projects they then went on to.
0:39:30 > 0:39:33But are the four of you like that?
0:39:33 > 0:39:36I don't think so.
0:39:36 > 0:39:38Steve and Reece has asked me to be in Psychoville
0:39:38 > 0:39:43and I had initially thought that I shouldn't do this because then
0:39:43 > 0:39:46it sort of muddies the water but it was the perfect one to do
0:39:46 > 0:39:51as the guest part and actually, I'm really proud of having been in that.
0:39:51 > 0:39:53I think it's incredible.
0:39:53 > 0:39:56I can say that because I didn't write it but I think it's
0:39:56 > 0:39:59an incredible technical piece of work, if nothing else.
0:39:59 > 0:40:02That episode. It was lovely.
0:40:02 > 0:40:05I don't think we would have been able to do it
0:40:05 > 0:40:08unless we'd had those years of shorthand
0:40:08 > 0:40:10because it was so technically difficult to do in two takes.
0:40:10 > 0:40:13- Would you like a tea Mr... - Yes, please. Griffin.
0:40:15 > 0:40:16Chief Inspector Griffin.
0:40:18 > 0:40:22As in... Police inspector not parking meters.
0:40:22 > 0:40:24Whoa!
0:40:24 > 0:40:25If only it was so frivolous.
0:40:25 > 0:40:30No, I was just saying, Mrs Pike, I'm in the area investigating
0:40:30 > 0:40:32- a recent series of murders. - Oh, shit in heaven.
0:40:32 > 0:40:37It seems your son here may have a link to one or more of the victims.
0:40:37 > 0:40:38- Have you?- No.
0:40:38 > 0:40:40Oh, well, there you are, thanks for coming.
0:40:40 > 0:40:43Whenever we meet up, we have such a laugh.
0:40:43 > 0:40:47We have just done Horrible Histories. This is our official reunion.
0:40:47 > 0:40:51We did six sketches for Horrible Histories which is a brilliant show,
0:40:51 > 0:40:53very honoured to be asked.
0:40:53 > 0:40:56We had such a laugh the whole day and of course,
0:40:56 > 0:40:57it all comes flooding back.
0:40:57 > 0:41:00I realised that I couldn't do that schedule any more. It's punishing!
0:41:00 > 0:41:05But the incredible thing was, the gifted cast of that show,
0:41:05 > 0:41:08they were very respectful, almost nervous.
0:41:08 > 0:41:12- I said to Steve, we have become venerable.- Yes, the elder statesmen.
0:41:12 > 0:41:14When did that happen? I know! Terrifying!
0:41:14 > 0:41:17Talking about some of the things you've done separately,
0:41:17 > 0:41:19an interesting strain of biographical acting,
0:41:19 > 0:41:23Bamber Gascoigne in Starter For 10, Johnny Craddock in Fear Of Fanny
0:41:23 > 0:41:27- and Malcolm McLaren in Worried About The Boy. - I am the poor man's Michael Sheen!
0:41:27 > 0:41:31Yes. But it is an interesting technical little area of acting.
0:41:31 > 0:41:34How do you approach those roles?
0:41:34 > 0:41:39It needs to be not an impersonation, but a performance.
0:41:39 > 0:41:43Well, I find it fascinating whenever one comes up.
0:41:43 > 0:41:45It's a real challenge.
0:41:45 > 0:41:49I think you have to be interested in the person
0:41:49 > 0:41:54and think of it, "Right, I can do something with this."
0:41:54 > 0:41:58This is such a cliche, but it's true. I always start with the voice.
0:41:58 > 0:41:59It's no shoes for me, it's voices.
0:41:59 > 0:42:02If I can't get the voice of the character, I'm lost.
0:42:02 > 0:42:06And whatever I have to do to create one or get it.
0:42:07 > 0:42:09So I watched a lot of Bamber.
0:42:09 > 0:42:12I talked to a few people and I noticed that he was always smiling
0:42:12 > 0:42:15so I just did that, never stopped smiling.
0:42:15 > 0:42:19And he also had that slight hesitation in the voice,
0:42:19 > 0:42:23- that his voice would vibrate. - Yes, I'd just try and get it.
0:42:23 > 0:42:28I'm quite a good mimic so I can pick up those things.
0:42:28 > 0:42:31And especially if I listen to it a lot, I can just do it.
0:42:32 > 0:42:35Without further ado, he is your first starter for 10.
0:42:35 > 0:42:37Listen carefully before you buzz.
0:42:37 > 0:42:40On a straight line graph with Y against X, where the gradient
0:42:40 > 0:42:43of the line this 2 and the Y intercept is five, what is the value of Y when X is 10?
0:42:43 > 0:42:45- Salmon, Queen's.- 25?
0:42:45 > 0:42:49Correct, for 10 points, so Queens, three bonus questions.
0:42:50 > 0:42:55The best ones are not a straight impersonation, it's an inhabitation.
0:42:55 > 0:42:56It's something a bit other.
0:42:56 > 0:43:01But Malcolm McLaren was difficult because I couldn't...
0:43:01 > 0:43:03I found it very difficult to get the voice.
0:43:03 > 0:43:07I watched tons of stuff, his brilliant South Bank Show,
0:43:07 > 0:43:12which was like the main thing from about '86 or something like that.
0:43:12 > 0:43:14The thing that cracked it was Larry the Lamb.
0:43:17 > 0:43:22The one thing was he talked to people as if he was blind.
0:43:22 > 0:43:27(AS MALCOLM MCLAREN) And then I realised that he had this sort of cracked quality to it,
0:43:27 > 0:43:29and he talks like that.
0:43:29 > 0:43:32Those two things together, I thought, I think I've got him now.
0:43:32 > 0:43:35And then with the fright wig, I was off!
0:43:36 > 0:43:39You plucked up all that courage, came more this way,
0:43:39 > 0:43:42just to sing a Sunday-school hymn.
0:43:42 > 0:43:44It was in my head.
0:43:45 > 0:43:48(Do you hear that?)
0:43:48 > 0:43:51That is the sound of no-one applauding.
0:43:51 > 0:43:53Get used to it.
0:43:53 > 0:43:55Sherlock, it's odd to think this now
0:43:55 > 0:43:57but it had a little stumble at the beginning, didn't it,
0:43:57 > 0:44:01because the pilot episode was never transmitted although it is
0:44:01 > 0:44:05available on the box set, but I remember there were mutterings
0:44:05 > 0:44:09in corridors at the BBC, there was a panic about that series at the beginning.
0:44:09 > 0:44:13The reason we eventually put it on the DVD was to stop that
0:44:13 > 0:44:15because it's very good.
0:44:15 > 0:44:18The pilot is very good and we would have been very happy.
0:44:18 > 0:44:20It was originally commissioned a six hour-long episodes.
0:44:20 > 0:44:24And then when we made the pilot, they asked for three 90s.
0:44:24 > 0:44:28I think largely because of the success of Wallander in that format.
0:44:28 > 0:44:30But we knew we couldn't just bolt on another half hour
0:44:30 > 0:44:35so Steve rewrote it, Steve Moffat rewrote it and we re-made it with a different director.
0:44:35 > 0:44:40- There were stories in the paper saying it was a disaster. - Exactly. That's what I mean.
0:44:40 > 0:44:43You realise you have got absolutely no comeback, what do you do?
0:44:43 > 0:44:47It was literally because of an internal decision to make it in
0:44:47 > 0:44:51another format, this gossip gets out and I remember thinking, if we don't
0:44:51 > 0:44:55show people that it's not a disaster, this will live with us forever.
0:44:57 > 0:45:03I suppose the argument is that you preserve the final version
0:45:03 > 0:45:07sacrosanct and maybe show people in 35 years' time or something.
0:45:07 > 0:45:12But, I personally thought that that was an insult, both to
0:45:12 > 0:45:16the original director and to the production because it is very good.
0:45:16 > 0:45:20- The second one is significantly more stylish though? - Yes, I think it is,
0:45:20 > 0:45:21but it is a different beast.
0:45:21 > 0:45:27What has happened to Sherlock has taken us all by surprise.
0:45:27 > 0:45:28We were very confident about it,
0:45:28 > 0:45:31but it is an amazing thing after three episodes to get this level
0:45:31 > 0:45:37of total fan ownership and expectation about the next lot.
0:45:37 > 0:45:40But also, the stories were telling... they are epic.
0:45:40 > 0:45:44They are film-length stories and that is what you have to do.
0:45:44 > 0:45:46- How did you know she had a suitcase? - Back of the right leg.
0:45:46 > 0:45:49Tiny splash marks on the heel and calf not present on the left.
0:45:49 > 0:45:53She was dragging a suitcase behind her. You don't get that splashback in any other way.
0:45:53 > 0:45:55A smallish case, going by the spread.
0:45:55 > 0:45:57A case that size, a woman this clothes conscious,
0:45:57 > 0:46:00could only be an overnight bag so we know she was only staying one night.
0:46:00 > 0:46:03- Now where is it? What have you done with it?- There wasn't a case.
0:46:06 > 0:46:07Say that again.
0:46:07 > 0:46:09There wasn't a case, there was never any suitcase.
0:46:09 > 0:46:12Suitcase! Did anyone find a suitcase?
0:46:12 > 0:46:14Was there a suitcase in this house?
0:46:14 > 0:46:16- Sherlock, there was no case! - They take the poison themselves.
0:46:16 > 0:46:20They chew, swallow the pills themselves. There are clear signs, even you lot couldn't miss.
0:46:20 > 0:46:22Right, yeah, thanks, AND?
0:46:22 > 0:46:24It's murder, all of them. I don't know how.
0:46:24 > 0:46:27And they're not suicides, they're killings - serial killings.
0:46:27 > 0:46:28We've got a serial killer.
0:46:28 > 0:46:30Love those, always something to look forward to.
0:46:30 > 0:46:32And you are, which is where we started,
0:46:32 > 0:46:36you're very unusual in this, the extent to which you've been able to
0:46:36 > 0:46:39pursue your childhood enthusiasm in Sherlock,
0:46:39 > 0:46:41but also the Lucifer Box series of novels you've written,
0:46:41 > 0:46:46which again, history and horror, it's all there.
0:46:46 > 0:46:49- Sickening, isn't it? - Yeah, it is actually, yeah.
0:46:49 > 0:46:53No, absolutely, and I count my blessings every day
0:46:53 > 0:46:57because it's a brilliant position to be in, it's a real privilege
0:46:57 > 0:47:01and I mean, I've had, you know...
0:47:02 > 0:47:04I hope I've got good taste
0:47:04 > 0:47:07and I've managed to pursue the right things.
0:47:07 > 0:47:09It didn't always work.
0:47:09 > 0:47:12There have been things, but...
0:47:12 > 0:47:14What do you regard as the disasters?
0:47:14 > 0:47:17Well, I wouldn't say... Would I say that?
0:47:17 > 0:47:20I was sure you were going to talk about Sex Lives of the Potato Men
0:47:20 > 0:47:22and yet you haven't, so I won't talk about it.
0:47:22 > 0:47:26I did a series called Clone,
0:47:26 > 0:47:30which people were fighting to do
0:47:30 > 0:47:33and I remember doing it
0:47:33 > 0:47:39because it was what I call a black glove part, it was a proper baddie.
0:47:39 > 0:47:42You never get to do these things, you know.
0:47:42 > 0:47:46It was a mad colonel and he just didn't work at all,
0:47:46 > 0:47:47just didn't work.
0:47:47 > 0:47:51Happily, no one saw it, but I was really miserable doing that job
0:47:51 > 0:47:54and that's when I realised that...
0:47:54 > 0:47:57How important and how lucky I am
0:47:57 > 0:48:02to have as much control as I do over things that I work on or I'm in.
0:48:02 > 0:48:03Colonel, we're just in the midst of...
0:48:03 > 0:48:08- Applying for a new job? - Actually, we've just run every test known to man.
0:48:08 > 0:48:11- Have you performed an autopsy? - Autopsy? He's still alive.
0:48:11 > 0:48:14For now. If I were him, I wouldn't make dinner plans.
0:48:14 > 0:48:16Colonel, you've got to give me more time.
0:48:16 > 0:48:18You just don't get it, do you? My career is on the line!
0:48:18 > 0:48:23- What about my career?- Your career is over, it's ancient history,
0:48:23 > 0:48:25like a dial-up internet connection or pubic hair in porn.
0:48:25 > 0:48:27LAUGHTER
0:48:27 > 0:48:30- Sex Lies of the Potato Men... - You said!
0:48:30 > 0:48:34I don't blame you for it, because it wasn't really your project.
0:48:34 > 0:48:35No, it wasn't.
0:48:35 > 0:48:39I'm just interested, did people working on it think it was good?
0:48:40 > 0:48:46Again, I only found out subsequently, it was an incredibly hot thing.
0:48:46 > 0:48:49I have actor friends who auditioned
0:48:49 > 0:48:51and were gutted when they didn't get it
0:48:51 > 0:48:57and there was someone who actually stalked the director at a football match to try and get in it.
0:48:57 > 0:48:59The intention was,
0:48:59 > 0:49:03and certainly the script that I was originally given,
0:49:04 > 0:49:09it was meant to be a sort of Ken Loach, Robin Askwith film.
0:49:09 > 0:49:14It was definitely a kind of modern confessions film
0:49:14 > 0:49:17but verging on the bleak side somehow, if that makes any sense,
0:49:17 > 0:49:23and it read very, very amusingly and then just didn't work at all.
0:49:23 > 0:49:25I'm very grateful to this day
0:49:25 > 0:49:29for properly working with Julia Davis, who I only knew slightly.
0:49:29 > 0:49:33Nothing would have happened as a collaboration without that.
0:49:33 > 0:49:37But it was an amazing time.
0:49:37 > 0:49:42When it came out, I didn't get loads of phone calls from the press,
0:49:42 > 0:49:45but I sort of hid for a couple of days because it broke.
0:49:45 > 0:49:48For people not around, it was front page news.
0:49:48 > 0:49:51It was supposed to be the most disastrous British movie of all time.
0:49:51 > 0:49:53It's all, of course, to do with Lottery funding.
0:49:53 > 0:49:56I remember a friend of mine rang me up to congratulate me
0:49:56 > 0:50:00because the Daily Mail headline contained the words "filth and fury,"
0:50:00 > 0:50:03so it's as close as you're going to get to your Pistols moment.
0:50:03 > 0:50:06Oh, hello. What's his name?
0:50:06 > 0:50:08Bobby, like Bobby dazzler.
0:50:08 > 0:50:10Aw!
0:50:10 > 0:50:12Say hello, Bobby, say hello to...
0:50:12 > 0:50:15Oh, I'm Shelley. This is Crystal.
0:50:15 > 0:50:16Hello Crystal.
0:50:16 > 0:50:18Stop! Don't do that, Crystal!
0:50:18 > 0:50:20Bobby, stop it!
0:50:20 > 0:50:22- Crystal, stop it!- Bobby, stop it!
0:50:22 > 0:50:24The 40s, the decade you're in,
0:50:24 > 0:50:28that is notoriously quite a difficult time,
0:50:28 > 0:50:32when personal and professional doubts are supposed to set in and things go wrong.
0:50:32 > 0:50:35Do you have any sense of all that?
0:50:37 > 0:50:39No, not in a personal sense. I mean, I'm just...
0:50:39 > 0:50:41I'm very...
0:50:41 > 0:50:46Having been through family losses,
0:50:48 > 0:50:53and getting to the stage I am, very happy professionally,
0:50:53 > 0:50:59I'm very aware of trying to live in the moment and appreciate it.
0:50:59 > 0:51:01Not do so much that I don't have time to enjoy it
0:51:01 > 0:51:06and smell the flowers, but also, that the work itself is the reward,
0:51:06 > 0:51:08it's a fantastic position to be in.
0:51:08 > 0:51:11And there is a side of being a performer
0:51:11 > 0:51:14which is unimaginable to people who don't do it,
0:51:14 > 0:51:17which is having to keep going, or at least trying to,
0:51:17 > 0:51:19you know, deaths of parents and so on,
0:51:19 > 0:51:22you still have to somehow hold together
0:51:22 > 0:51:25but you got to a point you had to withdraw from a play
0:51:25 > 0:51:30because it simply isn't possible sometimes to do both.
0:51:30 > 0:51:32Yes, yes.
0:51:32 > 0:51:36I mean, that was, I suppose, a particular circumstance
0:51:36 > 0:51:41because I was about to open in a play at Hampstead
0:51:42 > 0:51:48and my sister was dying and it was very, I mean...
0:51:48 > 0:51:52She'd had cancer for four or five years.
0:51:52 > 0:51:57I remember taking a call from my brother in rehearsals
0:51:57 > 0:52:01and it kind of came out, I suppose in that way
0:52:01 > 0:52:04of not kind of quite talking about it or not quite facing it
0:52:04 > 0:52:07and Jill never really spoke about it in that way,
0:52:07 > 0:52:10but we had some plans for Christmas.
0:52:10 > 0:52:14The family were going to come down to us for the first time
0:52:14 > 0:52:18and it was all still, as far as I was concerned, going to happen
0:52:18 > 0:52:24and then my brother spoke to a nurse friend of my sister's about Christmas
0:52:24 > 0:52:27and she said, I don't think Jill will be here at Christmas.
0:52:27 > 0:52:30And he rang me up and that was like a hammer blow.
0:52:30 > 0:52:32I remember it distinctly.
0:52:32 > 0:52:34And then suddenly, everything...
0:52:34 > 0:52:36I remember going through the next few days -
0:52:36 > 0:52:41it runs in a kind of dream - and because it was a ghost story,
0:52:41 > 0:52:46I actually found it very affecting and then I just...
0:52:48 > 0:52:51I just said, "I've got to speak to the director afterwards."
0:52:51 > 0:52:55I said, "I've got to go." I couldn't...
0:52:55 > 0:52:59It wasn't a question of "the show must go on" in that way,
0:52:59 > 0:53:02I mean, what are life's priorities? It's a play.
0:53:02 > 0:53:06It's inherent in the word, it's a play, life goes on.
0:53:06 > 0:53:11But I could not be not there in my sister's last days. And...
0:53:14 > 0:53:15That's just how it is.
0:53:15 > 0:53:18I mean, I know, God, people who've worked for
0:53:18 > 0:53:22Scrooge- and Marley-like theatre companies,
0:53:22 > 0:53:26who were not allowed to have days off for funerals and stuff like that.
0:53:26 > 0:53:27I mean, it's terrible,
0:53:27 > 0:53:31but if you're able to say, "I'm sorry, but I'm not,"
0:53:31 > 0:53:33then that's what you got to do.
0:53:33 > 0:53:37You mention the showbiz tradition that the show must go on
0:53:37 > 0:53:40and in the memoirs of Les Dennis, which I recommend to anyone,
0:53:40 > 0:53:42it's a incredibly frank account of being a performer,
0:53:42 > 0:53:45but he reveals that he went on stage almost immediately
0:53:45 > 0:53:47after the deaths of both his parents and indeed
0:53:47 > 0:53:51the death of his comedy partner and there is, to a non-performer,
0:53:51 > 0:53:53a kind of brutality in that -
0:53:53 > 0:53:57the idea that you just should be able to keep going.
0:53:57 > 0:53:59I think that's true.
0:53:59 > 0:54:03I think there's a difference though, between...
0:54:03 > 0:54:07I remember going on stage the day I heard my mother was dying
0:54:07 > 0:54:11and that's one of the best nights in the theatre I'd ever spent.
0:54:11 > 0:54:15I felt light because I knew nothing really mattered.
0:54:15 > 0:54:19I didn't have a shred of any kind of nerves, I felt that I was very good!
0:54:19 > 0:54:22Because I think you can pour things into it.
0:54:22 > 0:54:26You can use the experience, which might sound a bit mercenary,
0:54:26 > 0:54:30but I don't think it is, I think it's a way of dealing with it.
0:54:30 > 0:54:33If you then went home and sat on your own and bawled,
0:54:33 > 0:54:36it wouldn't perhaps have the sane feeling.
0:54:36 > 0:54:41I think there's a big difference between that kind of thing
0:54:41 > 0:54:43and a slightly hard-edged thing
0:54:43 > 0:54:46which is a kind of admirable professionalism,
0:54:46 > 0:54:50but, you know, you hear stories of actresses having children induced
0:54:50 > 0:54:54so they can make the first night, so I'm not sure about that!
0:54:54 > 0:54:58But for me, for instance, pulling out of a play
0:54:58 > 0:55:03in order to be at my sister's bedside was what I had to do.
0:55:03 > 0:55:07Going on stage when something has happened is slightly different
0:55:07 > 0:55:11because it's happened and therefore it's about how you cope with it
0:55:11 > 0:55:16and your particular way may be to say "I can't cope with it,"
0:55:16 > 0:55:20- but for a lot of performers something takes over, doesn't it?- Mmm.
0:55:20 > 0:55:24The show must go on and it's a sort of tip of their hat
0:55:24 > 0:55:27to the people who have gone on.
0:55:27 > 0:55:32My dad died a few years ago but I was shocked by everything you've read about it -
0:55:32 > 0:55:35all the novels and people have told you,
0:55:35 > 0:55:38just the metaphysical shock it is when you lose a parent
0:55:38 > 0:55:41- which actually you can never be prepared for.- I agree.
0:55:41 > 0:55:45The only mysteries of life is that everyone thinks it's a surprise
0:55:45 > 0:55:48and of course everyone's experience is different, but...
0:55:48 > 0:55:51God, what can you say?
0:55:53 > 0:55:59It's, er, it's a blow that you can't possibly prepare for.
0:55:59 > 0:56:02I don't know what it's... What can you say?
0:56:02 > 0:56:08It's... It's got so many things tangled up in it.
0:56:08 > 0:56:09It's got things you said,
0:56:09 > 0:56:12it's got old arguments,
0:56:12 > 0:56:17old prejudices - all kinds of things...
0:56:17 > 0:56:20And you have to deal with all that as well,
0:56:20 > 0:56:24not just the sheer extraordinary fact of physical absence - for me
0:56:24 > 0:56:26I can never get used to it,
0:56:26 > 0:56:32and I mean time changes things but I do remember for a short time
0:56:32 > 0:56:37afterwards you do think, "Oh, I must tell... Oh."
0:56:37 > 0:56:40And it gets you like that. I remember Russell T Davies
0:56:40 > 0:56:43saying to me, about his mum,
0:56:43 > 0:56:47"It's like joining a terrible secret club
0:56:47 > 0:56:48"and the most awful part
0:56:48 > 0:56:52"is that everyone eventually becomes a member."
0:56:54 > 0:56:57Professionally, is there anything you think,
0:56:57 > 0:56:59"I wish they'd let me do that"?
0:56:59 > 0:57:03Is there anything you want to do professionally that you haven't been able to?
0:57:03 > 0:57:07- No!- People will hate you!
0:57:07 > 0:57:11No, I mean, God, I've ticked so many boxes
0:57:11 > 0:57:16and every time one comes up I still feel slightly ashamed.
0:57:16 > 0:57:19I've just done Being Human playing
0:57:19 > 0:57:24the king vampire and we did a big long take of this scene where
0:57:24 > 0:57:26I was draped over the throne like King John
0:57:26 > 0:57:28and I has such a good time and by the end of this take
0:57:28 > 0:57:30I said to the director,
0:57:30 > 0:57:34"Do you mind if I play this part for the rest of my life?"
0:57:34 > 0:57:37I think I'd been building up to it since I was about five.
0:57:37 > 0:57:40I mean, there are certain things I'd love to do.
0:57:40 > 0:57:43Jacob Marley is a part I'd love to play.
0:57:43 > 0:57:46It's very particular to me, A Christmas Carol,
0:57:46 > 0:57:51it's my favourite Dickens and it's kind of also my favourite story.
0:57:51 > 0:57:56It means a lot to me for all kinds of reasons partly because it has
0:57:56 > 0:58:01a sort of sentimental reputation and it's actually extremely bleak.
0:58:01 > 0:58:04At it's heart of course is a terribly disappointed man
0:58:04 > 0:58:06but it's the redemption that appeals to me
0:58:06 > 0:58:09and the reason I love Marley is he hasn't got any.
0:58:09 > 0:58:12He intercedes on Scrooge's behalf but it's too late for him
0:58:12 > 0:58:15and I find that...
0:58:15 > 0:58:16I love it.
0:58:16 > 0:58:18The line in Christmas Carol which I remember makes my hair
0:58:18 > 0:58:22stand on end is so simple.
0:58:22 > 0:58:28Scrooge says, "Spirit, what do you want with me?" And he says "Much."
0:58:28 > 0:58:30Lovely.
0:58:30 > 0:58:32Mark Gatiss,
0:58:32 > 0:58:34- thank you very much.- Thank you.
0:58:57 > 0:58:59Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd