0:00:26 > 0:00:28'Sean Langan was a London-based journalist
0:00:28 > 0:00:31'writing about safe subjects. Culture, finance.
0:00:31 > 0:00:36'But dreamed of becoming a foreign correspondent or war reporter.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39'In 1998, he persuaded the BBC to send him to Kashmir
0:00:39 > 0:00:43'to make a film about some missing journalists.
0:00:43 > 0:00:45'Subsequently, Langan took his distinctive style -
0:00:45 > 0:00:49'a light tone in heavy situations, to the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan,
0:00:49 > 0:00:53'for films including Tea with the Taleban,
0:00:53 > 0:00:56'Fighting the Taleban and Afghan Ladies' Driving School.
0:00:56 > 0:01:01'But in 2008, his dream life of war reporting turned nightmarish.
0:01:01 > 0:01:03'While trying to make a film for Channel 4
0:01:03 > 0:01:07'about terrorist training camps on the Afghan/Pakistan border,
0:01:07 > 0:01:11'Langan was kidnapped and held for 12 weeks with Sami,
0:01:11 > 0:01:14'his local translator, under constant threat of death.
0:01:14 > 0:01:16'His incarceration and eventual release
0:01:16 > 0:01:19'became the subject of The Kidnap Diaries,
0:01:19 > 0:01:24'a BBC4 drama in which Douglas Henshall plays Langan.'
0:01:24 > 0:01:29You belong to a small group of people, including David Frost, Sarah Palin, Her Majesty the Queen,
0:01:29 > 0:01:33who've been portrayed by an actor during their own lifetimes.
0:01:33 > 0:01:37On the scale from flattering to unnerving, how does it rank?
0:01:37 > 0:01:43Er...well, the fact that he's better looking than me is a good start. Um...
0:01:43 > 0:01:47- Did you have casting approval?- No.
0:01:47 > 0:01:52The only casting approval I had was when, er...the baddie,
0:01:52 > 0:01:54one of my captors, Mr C,
0:01:54 > 0:01:58the actor going up for that, turned out he was a parent
0:01:58 > 0:02:02of one of the children at my children's school.
0:02:02 > 0:02:04We thought that might be deeply psychologically disturbing
0:02:04 > 0:02:08if the man who interrogated their father
0:02:08 > 0:02:11turned out to be a father of one of their school friends.
0:02:11 > 0:02:15So he didn't get the job because he was too close. But, no, I didn't.
0:02:15 > 0:02:19But I must say, it was very eerie seeing him doing the pieces to camera
0:02:19 > 0:02:22at the beginning of the drama where he's smoking a cigarette.
0:02:22 > 0:02:26And it did feel slightly eerie watching someone
0:02:26 > 0:02:28who captured something of me quite well, I thought.
0:02:28 > 0:02:32It's taken months to negotiate this access,
0:02:32 > 0:02:34and now it's finally happening.
0:02:34 > 0:02:38We cross the border into Pakistan tomorrow, into the tribal lands.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41And that will be the point of no return.
0:02:43 > 0:02:46After that, I'll be in the hands of the Taleban.
0:02:48 > 0:02:50When you watch that film,
0:02:50 > 0:02:53does it start blurring with your memories and your nightmares,
0:02:53 > 0:02:57or is it just always watching somebody else doing it?
0:02:57 > 0:03:02The amazing thing is...It's three years ago now since I was released.
0:03:02 > 0:03:06And I went to see the screening of the drama last week
0:03:06 > 0:03:07and it's like Pavlov's Dog.
0:03:07 > 0:03:11There's certain buttons which you just have to press.
0:03:11 > 0:03:15Er...and I...I start crying again.
0:03:15 > 0:03:18It's an immediate reaction every time.
0:03:18 > 0:03:21Um...it connects me back to the real event.
0:03:21 > 0:03:26There are many affecting references to your sons in the film.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29At what point, if ever, would you want them to watch this film?
0:03:30 > 0:03:35Well, it's every child's nightmare to be locked in a dark cupboard.
0:03:37 > 0:03:40So when that happens to your father, I can imagine that's...
0:03:40 > 0:03:44So... I tell you why I find it quite emotional.
0:03:45 > 0:03:47To answer your question quickly,
0:03:47 > 0:03:49I don't think I'm going to let them see it now.
0:03:49 > 0:03:51I don't want them to know...
0:03:51 > 0:03:54Even though they're not so young now, they're nine and eight...
0:03:54 > 0:03:57- That's still pretty young, though. - It's quite young.
0:03:57 > 0:04:02There's a scene in the drama where during my interrogation, they wanted to know the names of my children.
0:04:02 > 0:04:04I'm not a tough guy. I was telling them anything.
0:04:04 > 0:04:07I said, I've got nothing to hide. I've met Buddhist soldiers,
0:04:07 > 0:04:10I've met government officials, I've met Taleban.
0:04:10 > 0:04:12And I was willing to die not to give them the names.
0:04:12 > 0:04:16So that's in the drama and I don't think my children need to see that.
0:04:17 > 0:04:20My children don't belong here.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23If you refuse to answer the question,
0:04:23 > 0:04:25he'll be first to shoot him!
0:04:25 > 0:04:29This is no place for my children.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32This is out of my hands!
0:04:33 > 0:04:35He means it, Sean. Tell him!
0:04:40 > 0:04:41All right.
0:04:42 > 0:04:45You want to know the names of my children.
0:04:45 > 0:04:48My five-year-old son is called Luke.
0:04:48 > 0:04:52And my three-year-old son is called Gabriel.
0:04:53 > 0:04:55Luke and Gabriel.
0:04:57 > 0:05:01That was a turning point. I started crying.
0:05:01 > 0:05:03It was the only time I cried in front of the Taleban.
0:05:03 > 0:05:05I was...Tears of rage.
0:05:05 > 0:05:08And this is when I knew my life was in the hands of a sociopath.
0:05:08 > 0:05:13The Taleban commander was embarrassed that I'd brought up this holy name
0:05:13 > 0:05:15and he'd brought it into this dirty business.
0:05:15 > 0:05:19The other thing that struck me that no drama could ever get,
0:05:19 > 0:05:23particularly one that was filmed quickly because of British budgets,
0:05:23 > 0:05:27is the physical impact on you.
0:05:27 > 0:05:31Also, the passage of time. There's no way of doing that onscreen.
0:05:31 > 0:05:35What it must have been like to be there for three months.
0:05:35 > 0:05:38Time is very different. And, you know...
0:05:38 > 0:05:41So one week...I remember reading back some of my diaries.
0:05:41 > 0:05:45One week in captivity felt like a lifetime.
0:05:45 > 0:05:48Er...time became an odd thing.
0:05:48 > 0:05:52And ironically, my cellmate suffered quite badly.
0:05:52 > 0:05:55Had a nervous breakdown because, I think, time broke him.
0:05:55 > 0:05:58And I broke time down into routine.
0:05:58 > 0:06:01So I wouldn't have to count off the hours,
0:06:01 > 0:06:04the days, the weeks, the months.
0:06:04 > 0:06:07And at the same time, time was our saviour.
0:06:07 > 0:06:09Because it allowed me to bond with the family.
0:06:09 > 0:06:11And to get them on our side
0:06:11 > 0:06:14and to turn them slightly against the Taleban.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17So I had an odd relationship with time.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20And this question of time, because some captives and hostages
0:06:20 > 0:06:24have not known what the time was. Or what the year was, in the long ones.
0:06:24 > 0:06:26But you had a watch and your radio.
0:06:26 > 0:06:29You knew, which could be a good or a bad thing,
0:06:29 > 0:06:33- you knew where you were in the day. - It was odd.
0:06:33 > 0:06:36I kept a diary, but I wasn't too interested about the days passing.
0:06:36 > 0:06:38Because it really is...
0:06:38 > 0:06:40The Taleban would come and go.
0:06:40 > 0:06:43It was like the Sword of Damocles hanging over your head,
0:06:43 > 0:06:45and Waiting for Godot.
0:06:45 > 0:06:48Those were the two...experiences I remember came to mind.
0:06:48 > 0:06:50Because the Taleban commander would come in and say,
0:06:50 > 0:06:53"Right, we've accused you of being spies.
0:06:53 > 0:06:55"We're going to take a decision.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58"But don't worry, if one of you gets killed, you're both killed.
0:06:58 > 0:07:01"So don't feel..." No-one's going to be left out.
0:07:01 > 0:07:04Er...and he'd say, "I'm back in a week."
0:07:04 > 0:07:06And so, waiting for someone...
0:07:06 > 0:07:09When you know a decision's being made on whether to kill you
0:07:09 > 0:07:13or let you live, that waiting is difficult.
0:07:13 > 0:07:15And then, of course, he's late.
0:07:15 > 0:07:17And this guy was always late.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20And he always had a ridiculous excuse.
0:07:20 > 0:07:24And...so I realised that I just had to stop caring.
0:07:24 > 0:07:28And at one point, this was one of the hardest parts, actually,
0:07:28 > 0:07:31was when we heard negotiations had begun.
0:07:31 > 0:07:34They didn't...One of the troubling things were... Normally in a kidnap,
0:07:34 > 0:07:38the Taleban would start negotiating straightaway. They didn't for two months.
0:07:38 > 0:07:41And that's when we thought, there's something odd going on.
0:07:41 > 0:07:45Because if they wanted money, they would've done it straightaway.
0:07:45 > 0:07:49But when we heard we were going to be released, I felt like this wall,
0:07:49 > 0:07:52it was like a tsunami of emotion threatening to overwhelm me.
0:07:52 > 0:07:54And then, of course, we weren't released,
0:07:54 > 0:07:56and it was almost crushing.
0:07:56 > 0:07:59You felt like you were going to drown in this thing.
0:07:59 > 0:08:02So I had to batten down the hatches emotionally.
0:08:02 > 0:08:05And you just feel like you don't worry about time,
0:08:05 > 0:08:08you're careful with your emotions and you just get through it.
0:08:08 > 0:08:11This is one of the remarkable things about this story,
0:08:11 > 0:08:14that in a way, it's something like the Anne Frank story
0:08:14 > 0:08:19in that you see both the worst and the best of human behaviour.
0:08:19 > 0:08:24So your captors, who clearly were planning to kill you, is the worst,
0:08:24 > 0:08:26but the best is that for some reason,
0:08:26 > 0:08:30which is luck or fate or whatever, or your charm,
0:08:30 > 0:08:33the family who were supposed to be guarding you
0:08:33 > 0:08:36became your protectors.
0:08:36 > 0:08:40Exactly. I mean, the context is this is the tribal areas of Pakistan.
0:08:40 > 0:08:44Incredibly conservative, rural,
0:08:44 > 0:08:48mountainous region of these Pashtuns
0:08:48 > 0:08:51the Afghan/Pakistani Pashtuns.
0:08:51 > 0:08:54Very sympathetic to the Taleban,
0:08:54 > 0:08:57unsympathetic to non-believers, like myself,
0:08:57 > 0:08:59who they were told I was a spy,
0:08:59 > 0:09:03so in their eyes, I was beneath contempt.
0:09:03 > 0:09:07And yet these people, within a few weeks, er...
0:09:07 > 0:09:10turned around and offered me what's called panah, tribal protection.
0:09:10 > 0:09:14Which is something they take very seriously. They'll die for it.
0:09:14 > 0:09:16And in my eyes, it was a miracle
0:09:16 > 0:09:20that the one family the Taleban trusted in that valley
0:09:20 > 0:09:22to look after this foreigner,
0:09:22 > 0:09:24and foreigners are quite valuable.
0:09:24 > 0:09:28And it's a cutthroat world. You don't trust everyone up there.
0:09:28 > 0:09:30So the one family they trusted
0:09:30 > 0:09:33were the one family strong enough to stand up against them.
0:09:33 > 0:09:39Er...so that was quite a miraculous experience, I thought.
0:09:39 > 0:09:43And Stockholm Syndrome, which is this popular theory
0:09:43 > 0:09:45that captives bond at some level with their captors,
0:09:45 > 0:09:49but it was complicated in your case with the family, but with the, um...
0:09:49 > 0:09:53You never found yourself sympathising with the Taleban?
0:09:53 > 0:09:56It was never a case of Stockholm Syndrome.
0:09:56 > 0:10:01I was charmed, rather like you would be with the devil, by the devil.
0:10:01 > 0:10:04But I remember a few months after my release, I got a call.
0:10:04 > 0:10:06And only an Afghan could do this.
0:10:06 > 0:10:07As a foreign correspondent,
0:10:07 > 0:10:10I'd often get calls from people with foreign accents.
0:10:10 > 0:10:14I wouldn't know who they were, so I'd buy time by saying, "How are you?"
0:10:14 > 0:10:17One day, this person said, "How are you? How is your family?
0:10:17 > 0:10:18"How is your mother?"
0:10:18 > 0:10:21And then I realised it was the Taleban, my kidnapper,
0:10:21 > 0:10:24asking after my family a few months after.
0:10:24 > 0:10:26And I felt a physical revulsion.
0:10:26 > 0:10:28And I was genuinely surprised
0:10:28 > 0:10:32he hadn't been bombed by the Americans with a Hellfire missile.
0:10:32 > 0:10:34I'm sure they knew where he was.
0:10:34 > 0:10:36So, no, I never really bonded with him.
0:10:36 > 0:10:38We're not going to do lunch.
0:10:38 > 0:10:41And you say as a non-believer, and then you say miraculous,
0:10:41 > 0:10:43and as you know, many previous hostages,
0:10:43 > 0:10:46particularly for cultural reasons, Americans have come out saying,
0:10:46 > 0:10:49"The Lord was with me and the Lord has saved me."
0:10:49 > 0:10:52Did you find yourself praying or thinking?
0:10:52 > 0:10:57I remember in Iraq, an American soldier saying, "You'll never find an atheist in a foxhole."
0:10:57 > 0:11:00No. The irony for me was slightly different
0:11:00 > 0:11:05because I was kidnapped by so-called religious extremists.
0:11:05 > 0:11:09And I say so-called because the hypocrisy was so blatant,
0:11:09 > 0:11:13one day, the family actually came in and said, "Would you like anything?
0:11:13 > 0:11:15"Would you like some hashish? Some opium?"
0:11:15 > 0:11:18But nothing prohibited by the Koran.
0:11:18 > 0:11:22I found it odd that I couldn't have a Beaujolais or a glass of wine,
0:11:22 > 0:11:26but I could get some smack or some very strong dope.
0:11:26 > 0:11:30And the Taleban, you know, break every Islamic rule in the book.
0:11:30 > 0:11:33So that put me off, in a way,
0:11:33 > 0:11:36rather strict, man-made religions.
0:11:36 > 0:11:39But I did have an incredibly intense spiritual experience,
0:11:39 > 0:11:41which I think is quite common.
0:11:41 > 0:11:43You have to know you're going to die.
0:11:43 > 0:11:47What happens is I suffered... Suffering's the wrong word.
0:11:47 > 0:11:49I experienced, I guess,
0:11:49 > 0:11:52I don't know if this is a layman's term, drowning man syndrome.
0:11:52 > 0:11:56I saw my entire life flash before me from the age of five.
0:11:56 > 0:12:02And it's...Just as life is about to be extinguished, it burns brightest.
0:12:02 > 0:12:08So you become hypersensitive to life's beauty and fragility.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11And it was actually a really intense, enjoyable experience.
0:12:11 > 0:12:14And it felt like life's last gift
0:12:14 > 0:12:17is a kind of insight and wisdom.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20And then ironically, death beckons you to the door
0:12:20 > 0:12:22and literally cuts your throat.
0:12:22 > 0:12:28And that was my biggest fear, that I'd have my throat cut in the dark.
0:12:28 > 0:12:32Um...but, in fact, I had a spiritual, I don't know a conversion,
0:12:32 > 0:12:35but it was a quite overwhelming experience.
0:12:35 > 0:12:39And I remember I must've kind of guessed I was about to be...
0:12:39 > 0:12:43I was locked in a dark room for three months.
0:12:43 > 0:12:45But I had a little hole at the back of the...
0:12:45 > 0:12:49which was literally like that, at the back of the room.
0:12:49 > 0:12:52And there was an apricot tree just at the back and I could watch that.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55And I used to focus on the apricot tree and then look through
0:12:55 > 0:12:58and see the field and the women working in the fields
0:12:58 > 0:13:01and it was just all pastoral idyll.
0:13:01 > 0:13:05Um...but that and occasionally seeing the stars at night,
0:13:05 > 0:13:09er...was an intense spiritual experience.
0:13:09 > 0:13:12And when you have this experience, you described your life
0:13:12 > 0:13:15flashing before your eyes and the intensity of it,
0:13:15 > 0:13:19do you see the bad things you did, as well, or just the good things?
0:13:19 > 0:13:22It's interesting you ask. Um...
0:13:22 > 0:13:26So on the one hand, it's an incredibly, er...
0:13:26 > 0:13:30One thing I experienced, again, apparently, is very common,
0:13:30 > 0:13:33there I was, cut off and isolated from the outside world,
0:13:33 > 0:13:37apart from a radio. Yet I've never felt so connected to my loved ones.
0:13:37 > 0:13:39You know, a really intense connection.
0:13:39 > 0:13:43But as well as looking back over my life and my childhood,
0:13:43 > 0:13:45pleasant memories, I kind of...It was...
0:13:45 > 0:13:48It's not so much that I was looking in the mirror,
0:13:48 > 0:13:51taking a good look at myself for the first time in my life,
0:13:51 > 0:13:55but it felt like I was conducting a geographical survey of my soul.
0:13:55 > 0:13:59And I could plot the breakdown of my marriage.
0:13:59 > 0:14:03But not vaguely. It was like, that Tuesday six years ago
0:14:03 > 0:14:06when my wife had said, "Come back at 1.00," and I didn't come back.
0:14:06 > 0:14:09And then that decision...And it was like seeing a road map.
0:14:09 > 0:14:12And it was a bit like a sort of, er...
0:14:12 > 0:14:15a Scrooge-like experience
0:14:15 > 0:14:18where you're visited by the ghost of Christmas past.
0:14:18 > 0:14:20And I could see all my mistakes.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23The irony was I could see how to put them right.
0:14:23 > 0:14:26And I kept on having, so did my cellmate,
0:14:26 > 0:14:29Sami, my Afghan fixer/translator, a friend of mine.
0:14:29 > 0:14:31We worked together for 10 years.
0:14:31 > 0:14:34We both felt that we were having the same experience,
0:14:34 > 0:14:37but we were sure death, that was just a trick death does.
0:14:37 > 0:14:42Showing you that. Showing how, this is how you can put your life right and...
0:14:42 > 0:14:44Which, of course, he didn't do.
0:14:44 > 0:14:48And you had the, um...emotional complication that your, um...
0:14:48 > 0:14:51certainly in the film, which presented your main emotional attachment,
0:14:51 > 0:14:56apart from your two sons, was to an ex-wife, which seems complicated.
0:14:56 > 0:14:59- But was that the case? Was she the one you were thinking of?- No.
0:14:59 > 0:15:03Um...well, yes, but, no, she wasn't.
0:15:03 > 0:15:07That was one aspect of looking back over my life and regrets.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10Very much my children were an odd thing.
0:15:12 > 0:15:17I struggled to survive for the sake of the children.
0:15:17 > 0:15:21So they were an incredible source of strength, but at the same time
0:15:21 > 0:15:24I had to limit myself to once a week to look at their photo.
0:15:27 > 0:15:31If I looked at it too long, I would cry again.
0:15:32 > 0:15:35I felt, rightly, a selfish father.
0:15:35 > 0:15:38Only a selfish father plays Russian roulette with himself
0:15:38 > 0:15:41by doing the sort of thing I was doing.
0:15:41 > 0:15:48But with my wife, my ex-wife, I wasn't sure how she would feel.
0:15:48 > 0:15:53We were divorced, so I was careful not to.
0:15:53 > 0:15:57I was thinking as much about friends and family.
0:15:57 > 0:16:00You've referred to your cellmate, as it were.
0:16:00 > 0:16:01He had a nervous breakdown,
0:16:01 > 0:16:04but you, at least in the conventional sense, didn't.
0:16:04 > 0:16:07We often talk about the resilience of the human spirit,
0:16:07 > 0:16:10but how did you do that?
0:16:10 > 0:16:12Were you consciously fighting
0:16:12 > 0:16:15and thinking, "I am not going to crack"?
0:16:16 > 0:16:18To my slight shame,
0:16:18 > 0:16:23I couldn't help feeling perhaps I was a stronger character.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27And the truth is, what really happened,
0:16:27 > 0:16:31what was on my side was my Western naivety.
0:16:31 > 0:16:34As a Westerner, a pampered Westerner, I find it quite
0:16:34 > 0:16:37difficult to imagine a fellow human being can cut my throat...
0:16:38 > 0:16:39..at the drop of a hat.
0:16:39 > 0:16:46My Afghan friend, Sami, who lost his entire family, had a very different,
0:16:46 > 0:16:51perhaps more accurate, understanding of what humans are capable of doing.
0:16:51 > 0:16:56Also, as an Afghan, he had very good first-hand experience.
0:16:56 > 0:16:59Two of our friends, Afghan journalists,
0:16:59 > 0:17:02were kidnapped with a Western journalist, an Italian,
0:17:02 > 0:17:03and the Italian was released
0:17:03 > 0:17:06and they were beheaded - one was beheaded and one was shot.
0:17:06 > 0:17:08Only the year before we were kidnapped.
0:17:08 > 0:17:12Those are good friends of ours, so, Sami, it was much harder for him,
0:17:12 > 0:17:15because he thought, "The Westerner gets released
0:17:15 > 0:17:17"and they kill the Afghan."
0:17:17 > 0:17:21The Taleban, being good Muslims, they let the non-believer go
0:17:21 > 0:17:24and kill the believer.
0:17:24 > 0:17:26So it was a lot harder for him.
0:17:26 > 0:17:29He had a very bad nervous breakdown
0:17:29 > 0:17:33and he kind of went mad.
0:17:34 > 0:17:36And so that helped me survived, because it's like
0:17:36 > 0:17:40when one of your friends is really drunk, you sober up, however
0:17:40 > 0:17:43bad you are, so I was forced into the role of being the sergeant-major,
0:17:43 > 0:17:45the PE instructor,
0:17:45 > 0:17:51and that made my life easier and I couldn't afford to break down.
0:17:51 > 0:17:56Because I had a friend there who was, you know, in a very bad way.
0:17:56 > 0:18:00I've had enough of this bullshit. I want to be tried now.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03I want this over and done with.
0:18:03 > 0:18:06Please, Sean! Keep your voice down!
0:18:07 > 0:18:10Right. I'll stop shouting
0:18:10 > 0:18:14if you promise me you'll fight back.
0:18:16 > 0:18:23And start washing, start eating, take some exercise, promise me!
0:18:23 > 0:18:27Sami, promise me, on your holy book or I'll shout
0:18:27 > 0:18:30until I get us both killed, because I don't care any more.
0:18:31 > 0:18:34Please...
0:18:34 > 0:18:37One of the most horrifying things for me in the film
0:18:37 > 0:18:40is your captors keep doing this thing which is like
0:18:40 > 0:18:43a psychopathic version of Chris Tarrant making you think
0:18:43 > 0:18:47you've got the question wrong when you've got it right,
0:18:47 > 0:18:49which is that they tell you they are going to kill you,
0:18:49 > 0:18:51and then it's like, "Ha, ha!
0:18:51 > 0:18:55"We're not really! Don't worry, it was countermanded by someone else!"
0:18:55 > 0:18:57But that is what went on, is it?
0:18:57 > 0:19:01Yeah, I think it was the commander, Mr C.
0:19:01 > 0:19:09Now, Mr C was my not-too-subtle codeword for the charm of the devil.
0:19:09 > 0:19:15And he came in, in this pompous way, one day at the end,
0:19:15 > 0:19:18with the Shura, the ruling council of the Taleban,
0:19:18 > 0:19:21this court with their findings,
0:19:21 > 0:19:24and he read it out and he said, "The court finds you innocent."
0:19:26 > 0:19:28And I literally went, "Pfffft!". Good news.
0:19:28 > 0:19:31And then he said, "But they've voted to kill you."
0:19:31 > 0:19:33I was like, "Oh!".
0:19:33 > 0:19:37And then he paused again, and went, "But we overturned that vote."
0:19:37 > 0:19:42And by that point after three cliffhangers and "only joking!"
0:19:42 > 0:19:46I was completely...
0:19:46 > 0:19:48And then he turns to Sami and says...
0:19:48 > 0:19:51As for you, Mr Fix-it, not so good.
0:19:51 > 0:19:54Guilty as charged.
0:20:01 > 0:20:02But...
0:20:03 > 0:20:06..the Shura voted to let you live!
0:20:06 > 0:20:08You get to fix another day!
0:20:10 > 0:20:13So, you're both going home.
0:20:13 > 0:20:19And then we were taken out in a car, we were in the mountains
0:20:19 > 0:20:21and I was going to be driven back, and I thought
0:20:21 > 0:20:23this was just a ruse and they wanted to get me out of the house,
0:20:23 > 0:20:26because the family had offered me protection.
0:20:26 > 0:20:29They said the Taleban can kidnap you, ransom you,
0:20:29 > 0:20:31do their business, but they can't kill you.
0:20:31 > 0:20:33We will fight them.
0:20:33 > 0:20:38So I thought, this court hearing was a sham, now I'm in a car,
0:20:38 > 0:20:42and the driver stops the car and I'm sitting in the back.
0:20:42 > 0:20:46And he gets out, and he's at my head height
0:20:46 > 0:20:48and then suddenly everything goes in slow motion
0:20:48 > 0:20:51because he lifts his salwar kameez, this long shirt
0:20:51 > 0:20:54and baggy trousers, and he lifts it up, and he's got a gun
0:20:54 > 0:20:55and he takes out.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58This is now head height and I'm thinking,
0:20:58 > 0:21:00"God, I've been three months in captivity,
0:21:00 > 0:21:03I've just been released, and now they're going to shoot me."
0:21:03 > 0:21:06And then he squats down and has a pee.
0:21:06 > 0:21:09He couldn't squat with the gun in there.
0:21:09 > 0:21:13And I just thought, it was literally, like, and he must have seen me.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16He had this gun right by my head.
0:21:16 > 0:21:19And he looked at me and everything was fine, and when I nearly lost it,
0:21:19 > 0:21:22after having these ups and downs,
0:21:22 > 0:21:26I was then moved to a second safe house which was like
0:21:26 > 0:21:30some horror story because it was full of Taleban wounded
0:21:30 > 0:21:33and some psychologically-damaged people,
0:21:33 > 0:21:34but it was like a freak house.
0:21:34 > 0:21:37And I was made to watch, on a loop,
0:21:37 > 0:21:43constant videos of like snuff movies of Taleban prisoners being beheaded.
0:21:43 > 0:21:45I was made to watch about two hours of this stuff
0:21:45 > 0:21:48with lots of people around me, including children.
0:21:48 > 0:21:52There was a three-year-old on my lap, and I remember turning to the father
0:21:52 > 0:21:54after about the 20th head gets lopped off,
0:21:54 > 0:21:56saying, "Do you think this is child appropriate?"
0:21:56 > 0:21:58He said, "Yeah, it's good! Jihad, Jihad!"
0:21:58 > 0:22:01And they were looking to see how I was...
0:22:01 > 0:22:05Suddenly with all this jihad, beheadings and shootings,
0:22:05 > 0:22:10suddenly I see a man getting off a train in a jacket.
0:22:10 > 0:22:13And it looks like Paddington station, and I'm like,
0:22:13 > 0:22:16"Wow, this is an odd Jihad video."
0:22:16 > 0:22:19And it was Rowan Atkinson.
0:22:19 > 0:22:23And by mistake, there was a JPEG clip of a Mr Bean video.
0:22:23 > 0:22:26And they went, "Ooh! Sorry! Wrong clip."
0:22:26 > 0:22:27And it went back to the beheading.
0:22:27 > 0:22:31But I found that so disturbing because I had steeled myself
0:22:31 > 0:22:34and thought, another beheading, another beheading,
0:22:34 > 0:22:36and then, "God! That's Mr Bean!"
0:22:36 > 0:22:40Suddenly I found the next beheading really traumatising
0:22:40 > 0:22:43because I'd lowered my guard.
0:22:43 > 0:22:48So there was lots of this playing with my emotions,
0:22:48 > 0:22:50and I think it was to control,
0:22:50 > 0:22:54and I also think they wanted to mess us up
0:22:54 > 0:22:56because they didn't want us to tell anything and be able to be
0:22:56 > 0:22:59in a fit state, psychologically, to talk when we got out there.
0:23:01 > 0:23:05And on that question, because post-traumatic stress disorder
0:23:05 > 0:23:08is a well-recognised condition, you presumably had it.
0:23:08 > 0:23:14I now get why it is called "post-", because it doesn't happen
0:23:14 > 0:23:16when you come out.
0:23:16 > 0:23:18When I came out, physically I was kind of mess up,
0:23:18 > 0:23:21but then it was a little bit like this drama Homeland,
0:23:21 > 0:23:24which my ex-wife drew my attention to.
0:23:24 > 0:23:29It was a few months later when I suddenly had people telling me
0:23:29 > 0:23:33you've not left your apartment, your flat, for three weeks.
0:23:33 > 0:23:36It's odd. I adapted to captivity very well.
0:23:36 > 0:23:38In fact, when I was debriefed,
0:23:38 > 0:23:42I ticked all the boxes of doing exactly the right things.
0:23:42 > 0:23:44You know, keeping my photos of my children private,
0:23:44 > 0:23:46holding on to something, exercising.
0:23:46 > 0:23:49I had a conversation with the Taleban saying,
0:23:49 > 0:23:52"Can I be shot in the back of the head?"
0:23:52 > 0:23:56"I have a problem having my throat cut." And they said, "OK."
0:23:56 > 0:23:59And I said, "Can that guy shoot me, because he's quite nice."
0:23:59 > 0:24:01And then he started crying.
0:24:01 > 0:24:03So I had that kind of level-headed,
0:24:03 > 0:24:07but then I come out and I can't even talk to the bank manager.
0:24:07 > 0:24:10Any confrontation is too much.
0:24:10 > 0:24:12So it was like a reversal.
0:24:12 > 0:24:15I think what it is, after trauma like that,
0:24:15 > 0:24:19the brain then starts processing it.
0:24:19 > 0:24:25And, and you come through it at the other end, hopefully.
0:24:25 > 0:24:29It's often said about great foreign correspondents,
0:24:29 > 0:24:30war correspondents,
0:24:30 > 0:24:34people say they have a death wish or they're indifferent to death.
0:24:34 > 0:24:39So why, knowing that, did you go and try and make that film?
0:24:39 > 0:24:42I don't really know what the word death-wish means,
0:24:42 > 0:24:47because one thing that really marks out a lot of the people I've met,
0:24:47 > 0:24:49friends of mine, and people I've read about,
0:24:49 > 0:24:54the great foreign correspondents, war journalists, is a zest for life
0:24:54 > 0:24:57like you've rarely experienced and a real hunger for life.
0:24:57 > 0:25:01And I think here's the thing about death, in a way,
0:25:01 > 0:25:06they don't disregard death, they really calculate it.
0:25:06 > 0:25:08Somebody once said spies are very moral people
0:25:08 > 0:25:13because they have to think about morality the whole time.
0:25:13 > 0:25:15And in a way, in the West,
0:25:15 > 0:25:19we turn our backs on death to the point where we let
0:25:19 > 0:25:21our governments kill with impunity,
0:25:21 > 0:25:24but also we're not discussing it.
0:25:24 > 0:25:26And death, as I found in my kidnap,
0:25:26 > 0:25:31without being too over-the-top about it, it cast a shadow over life
0:25:31 > 0:25:34but it casts it in a brilliant light as well.
0:25:34 > 0:25:39Without the shadow of death, what meaning is there to life?
0:25:39 > 0:25:45So in a way, when people accuse these mad war correspondents of having
0:25:45 > 0:25:48a death wish, I think they would argue the opposite.
0:25:48 > 0:25:51That you have never lived
0:25:51 > 0:25:55until you have experienced what they have, and I can see that.
0:25:55 > 0:25:57The most astonishing thing watching the film
0:25:57 > 0:26:00and hearing you talk now is that this experience
0:26:00 > 0:26:02which we hope most people won't have,
0:26:02 > 0:26:05but there is an idea summed up in a famous Damien Hirst artwork,
0:26:05 > 0:26:08the floating shark which is called
0:26:08 > 0:26:11The Physical Impossibility of Death In The Mind of Someone living.
0:26:11 > 0:26:14Many, many times you must have thought you were going to die,
0:26:14 > 0:26:18but was there always something saying,
0:26:18 > 0:26:21somehow, I'm going to get out this?
0:26:21 > 0:26:24That's interesting, because my first-ever documentary,
0:26:24 > 0:26:29which I made 10 years to the same week that I got kidnapped,
0:26:29 > 0:26:31the 10th anniversary, was about a kidnap case of five tourists,
0:26:31 > 0:26:33backpackers in Kashmir.
0:26:33 > 0:26:35That was my first film for the BBC.
0:26:35 > 0:26:39And 10 years after that, I get kidnapped.
0:26:39 > 0:26:41But, in the interim, I'd made documentaries
0:26:41 > 0:26:45and I think my USP at Channel 4 - that horrible phrase -
0:26:45 > 0:26:48I only found this out after I was released
0:26:48 > 0:26:49was "dead man walking."
0:26:49 > 0:26:52I was a bit like my documentaries.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55I'd like to think they were breaking new ground
0:26:55 > 0:27:03and revealing journalistically sound stories about the war
0:27:03 > 0:27:05in Afghanistan and Iraq, but there was an element,
0:27:05 > 0:27:09I think, in the commissioning that the audience,
0:27:09 > 0:27:11a bit like Formula One, let's see this guy...
0:27:11 > 0:27:14We know he's not going to die, because the programme's there,
0:27:14 > 0:27:16but let's see how close...
0:27:16 > 0:27:17My brother said I was like Mr Magoo,
0:27:17 > 0:27:22that cartoon character who is so shortsighted, and in my case, dumb.
0:27:22 > 0:27:24He goes so close to the edge.
0:27:25 > 0:27:29I heard last night when I got into the hotel
0:27:29 > 0:27:32that the last remaining Western journalist in Kabul left yesterday.
0:27:32 > 0:27:35They all got a flight, because threats have been delivered
0:27:35 > 0:27:39to foreign journalists that if they stay in Kabul, they'll be killed.
0:27:41 > 0:27:42It's the day I arrive!
0:27:42 > 0:27:44I'm like Mr Magoo.
0:27:46 > 0:27:50Just walk straight into it without knowing what is happening. Anyway.
0:27:50 > 0:27:56As Mr Magoo, I'll pull my glasses back on and face my fate.
0:27:56 > 0:28:01I've been shot at, I've been put up against walls by firing squads,
0:28:01 > 0:28:03but it never felt real.
0:28:03 > 0:28:08It always felt that I was almost in a Tintin cartoon.
0:28:08 > 0:28:10Actually, my documentary
0:28:10 > 0:28:13when it was sold to Belgium, went out as Tintin Goes to Afghanistan.
0:28:13 > 0:28:16In any other country they'd be taking the piss,
0:28:16 > 0:28:19but I guess in Belgium that's a compliment.
0:28:19 > 0:28:23So it never felt real until, for the first time in my life,
0:28:23 > 0:28:29because I never thought I'd get shot, that in this kidnap it felt unreal,
0:28:29 > 0:28:31like all the times before in war zones.
0:28:31 > 0:28:35And then suddenly, it hit me in a physical way.
0:28:35 > 0:28:39And when death is upon you, it is a physical, palpable thing.
0:28:39 > 0:28:44I remember sitting in my bed and it felt like someone had whacked me
0:28:44 > 0:28:49here, and that was, for the first time in my life, that I got it.
0:28:49 > 0:28:56I can imagine death. And it was an overpowering physical sensation.
0:28:56 > 0:28:59As I imagine it is when the doctor says you've got cancer.
0:28:59 > 0:29:03It knocks the wind out of you. So, yes.
0:29:03 > 0:29:07I was the shark. Was I the shark? I don't know. I was the sheep!
0:29:07 > 0:29:10- I think death is the shark. You're the...- OK, formaldehyde.
0:29:10 > 0:29:14That's nice(!)
0:29:14 > 0:29:17I was the fatted calf. The calf split in two.
0:29:19 > 0:29:20There's...
0:29:20 > 0:29:24So far you've compared me to Damien Hirst's calf or formaldehyde,
0:29:24 > 0:29:26the Queen, I've forgotten the other ones.
0:29:26 > 0:29:30- Sarah Palin, they're all there.- I've never been compared to Sarah Palin.
0:29:30 > 0:29:33Talking about some of these incidents,
0:29:33 > 0:29:36there's one in the drama in which one of your captors
0:29:36 > 0:29:40is struggling with his mobile phone, and you say, "Can I hold the rifle?"
0:29:42 > 0:29:47- You want me to hold that for you? - Thank you.
0:30:04 > 0:30:07It is hard not to laugh at some of these stories, because they
0:30:07 > 0:30:09have a dark, farcical aspect,
0:30:09 > 0:30:11but did you ever find them funny at the time?
0:30:11 > 0:30:15You know, surprisingly, I lost my sense of humour
0:30:15 > 0:30:19when I lost some weight, but in fact it came back,
0:30:19 > 0:30:22like so many things, when it comes back, it comes back with a vengeance.
0:30:22 > 0:30:27There was another time where I was telling the family
0:30:27 > 0:30:30that part of my bonding was that they'd never seen beyond this valley
0:30:30 > 0:30:33and then I'm this outsider who's travelled the world
0:30:33 > 0:30:36and I would tell them about London and about the London Eye
0:30:36 > 0:30:39and the Tube going underground, and it was like I was telling them
0:30:39 > 0:30:41about "There Be Dragons" and monsters.
0:30:41 > 0:30:43They were wide-eyed.
0:30:43 > 0:30:45But then I was telling them about how a man had been to the moon.
0:30:45 > 0:30:48And the mullah said, "No, that's American propaganda."
0:30:48 > 0:30:50And I backed down.
0:30:50 > 0:30:57So, yes, with the family there were moments of levity
0:30:57 > 0:30:58but that was not surreal.
0:30:58 > 0:31:01With the Taleban it was like, "How mad are you?"
0:31:04 > 0:31:07And then with the family, we were playing a game,
0:31:07 > 0:31:09and this is how dim I am.
0:31:09 > 0:31:11There was a board game which I got really into,
0:31:11 > 0:31:13which we started playing at night.
0:31:13 > 0:31:17And I thought, you know what, when I come back to London, this is such a good game.
0:31:17 > 0:31:20It was called Ladoo. I'm going to market it in Britain.
0:31:20 > 0:31:22I'll get out of TV documentaries.
0:31:22 > 0:31:24And then I found out that Ladoo is actually Ludo.
0:31:24 > 0:31:28It's quite a well known game. I didn't put the two and two together.
0:31:28 > 0:31:30So I was playing Ludo quite a lot,
0:31:30 > 0:31:34and we'd be chatting quite a lot and could hear these CIA drones overhead
0:31:34 > 0:31:36and we would laugh and think
0:31:36 > 0:31:39that they think I'm being interrogated,
0:31:39 > 0:31:42but actually I'm having a cup of tea and playing Ludo.
0:31:42 > 0:31:46Previous times in my life when I had some miraculous escapes.
0:31:46 > 0:31:50One of them was in the previous documentary, Meeting The Taleban,
0:31:50 > 0:31:53with Sami, we were put up against a wall by firing squad.
0:31:55 > 0:31:58And here's the thing about laughs. This is gallows humour.
0:31:58 > 0:32:00Bizarrely it was funny and it saved my life.
0:32:00 > 0:32:05We were up against the wall, and there's six men with guns,
0:32:05 > 0:32:07about as close as you are to me,
0:32:07 > 0:32:12and Sami was doing the holy Islamic prayer before death
0:32:12 > 0:32:16and suddenly, and I'm not English - my dad's Irish and my mother's Portuguese -
0:32:16 > 0:32:17and I came over very English
0:32:17 > 0:32:21that what's worse than being killed is committing a slight faux pas.
0:32:21 > 0:32:24Like on the Tube when you step on someone's foot and you say sorry.
0:32:24 > 0:32:27So I was tapping Sami on the shoulder,
0:32:27 > 0:32:29but I didn't want to interrupt his prayer and be rude,
0:32:29 > 0:32:32so I was kind of tapping. And he said, "What?!"
0:32:32 > 0:32:36I said "I'm sorry to interrupt your prayer, but is this a firing squad?"
0:32:36 > 0:32:38And he looked at me like...
0:32:38 > 0:32:40"No, it's a pizza delivery."
0:32:40 > 0:32:41And we started laughing.
0:32:41 > 0:32:46And the Taleban commander saw this and clicked his fingers
0:32:46 > 0:32:47and the guys put their weapons down.
0:32:47 > 0:32:50And he said, "What are you doing laughing?"
0:32:50 > 0:32:52Most people don't laugh just before they shot.
0:32:52 > 0:32:57And Sami - which saved our life - said, "This stupid foreign journalist
0:32:57 > 0:33:01has just asked the stupidest question in the world."
0:33:01 > 0:33:03The Taleban commander went, "Oh, foreign JOURNALISTS?"
0:33:03 > 0:33:05"We were just told you were foreigners.
0:33:05 > 0:33:09We thought you were soldiers. Do you want to do an interview?"
0:33:09 > 0:33:11And I had to go from firing squad, up against a wall,
0:33:11 > 0:33:15to sitting down, and the interview was so bad, unlike yours, Mark...
0:33:15 > 0:33:16Thank you.
0:33:16 > 0:33:19I couldn't get a word out edgeways, so we just had enough footage
0:33:19 > 0:33:22of the interview for a pre-title sequence,
0:33:22 > 0:33:24because I was speaking gobbledegook.
0:33:26 > 0:33:28So, yeah,
0:33:28 > 0:33:31that was both funny and intense.
0:33:34 > 0:33:37A little bit about childhood. Toby Young, journalist, broadcaster,
0:33:37 > 0:33:40pioneer of the free school movement, with whom you were at school.
0:33:40 > 0:33:47- Yeah.- He has described you as the class clown, the class joker.
0:33:47 > 0:33:49Is that how you remember it?
0:33:49 > 0:33:53A bit rich coming from Toby Young, isn't it? Yeah, he was right.
0:33:53 > 0:33:56It was a bit of a joker, and as he said, that is how
0:33:56 > 0:33:59I get on with people whether they happen to be Al-Qaeda, Taleban,
0:33:59 > 0:34:03suicide bombers or Toby Young.
0:34:03 > 0:34:06Toby Young also claims that he used a trick
0:34:06 > 0:34:10to get you into the television business, which is that when
0:34:10 > 0:34:14you applied for a job in regional television, he claims that he rang
0:34:14 > 0:34:17the interviewer shortly afterwards and said,
0:34:17 > 0:34:19"I'm from BBC Watchdog
0:34:19 > 0:34:22and I'm thinking of giving a job to Sean Langan."
0:34:22 > 0:34:24I wonder what you made of him.
0:34:24 > 0:34:26And after that you were offered a job in regional TV.
0:34:26 > 0:34:28Is this in fact true?
0:34:28 > 0:34:30If Toby Young said it...
0:34:30 > 0:34:33Then it probably isn't!
0:34:33 > 0:34:37No, it was true. I worked for Anglia TV.
0:34:37 > 0:34:39I was a researcher and I lasted about a week or two.
0:34:39 > 0:34:42But I think he did do that, and it worked.
0:34:42 > 0:34:45But at the same time, I remember going for a job interview
0:34:45 > 0:34:49with Janet Street-Porter, for "yoof" TV.
0:34:49 > 0:34:52And Toby took me out the night, before drinking tequila shots.
0:34:52 > 0:34:56And at 4:00am - and the interview was at 9:00am - at 4:00am, I said I had to go.
0:34:56 > 0:34:59And he said, "No, you'll get five hours' sleep. Don't worry."
0:34:59 > 0:35:01Cut to seven in the morning, he says,
0:35:01 > 0:35:03"We should have another tequila and go in."
0:35:03 > 0:35:06I went in, and Janet Street-Porter was an intimidating character.
0:35:06 > 0:35:09She said, "You smell of tequila."
0:35:09 > 0:35:12The interview was downhill after that.
0:35:12 > 0:35:14So you didn't get that job?
0:35:14 > 0:35:19I didn't get that job. But Toby helped me get into journalism.
0:35:19 > 0:35:24He also introduced me to my wife, who then became my ex-wife.
0:35:24 > 0:35:27So he has been a big part of life.
0:35:27 > 0:35:29There's a tendency, which is understandable
0:35:29 > 0:35:32to write off everything you did in TV before 1998
0:35:32 > 0:35:35when you went to Kashmir for the BBC.
0:35:35 > 0:35:39Series such as of Ride On in 1994 with Muriel Gray.
0:35:39 > 0:35:42Do you pretty much dismiss all of that stuff?
0:35:42 > 0:35:44I wasn't really a TV... I was a print journalist.
0:35:44 > 0:35:47I really always thought myself...
0:35:47 > 0:35:54And British print journalists used the term "hack" with endearment.
0:35:54 > 0:35:55Not to the outside world.
0:35:55 > 0:36:00As a journalist I was offered to do this.
0:36:00 > 0:36:02It was their answer to Top Gear,
0:36:02 > 0:36:07and I was hopeless on it because I couldn't read other people's...
0:36:07 > 0:36:11I can't be a TV presenter. I can't speak and talk at the same time.
0:36:11 > 0:36:13I'm not that smart.
0:36:13 > 0:36:16So I was doing this story in Kashmir and the BBC said, "Can you film it?"
0:36:16 > 0:36:19I still thought of myself as a hack with a camera,
0:36:19 > 0:36:24but halfway through that I found, literally, my calling... Vocation.
0:36:24 > 0:36:28I woke up one morning, which is a very rare thing,
0:36:28 > 0:36:33and felt consciously happy, because I had a clear purpose in life,
0:36:33 > 0:36:37a clear goal to find kidnappers.
0:36:37 > 0:36:40My goals were to actually find the kidnappers of these hostages,
0:36:40 > 0:36:42these British hostages.
0:36:42 > 0:36:48But also, the purpose, making a film that would reveal social injustice.
0:36:48 > 0:36:50GUNSHOTS
0:36:51 > 0:36:53Wait!
0:36:57 > 0:37:00Someone should have told me there was tear gas.
0:37:00 > 0:37:01MEN LAUGH
0:37:03 > 0:37:06Ran right through tear gas for the first time.
0:37:09 > 0:37:11This cloud's exploding.
0:37:13 > 0:37:18Your persona in your documentaries is this slightly haphazard,
0:37:18 > 0:37:23bumbling figure, but that clearly is entirely natural.
0:37:23 > 0:37:25This Inspector Clouseau moment in which you...
0:37:25 > 0:37:27I thought you were going to say it's a construct,
0:37:27 > 0:37:31that really, beneath that, I'm a really sharp... No, you're right.
0:37:31 > 0:37:35In my first documentary, I was so clueless.
0:37:35 > 0:37:38But in fact, that was what saved my life.
0:37:38 > 0:37:40With hindsight I realised, when I'm meeting Mujahideen...
0:37:40 > 0:37:45There's this bit in Kashmir where the Mujahideen are coming
0:37:45 > 0:37:48out of the trees behind me about to abduct me,
0:37:48 > 0:37:52and I'm on camera doing a piece to camera like a child saying,
0:37:52 > 0:37:54("They're behind me. They're coming behind me.")
0:37:54 > 0:37:56Like, "Look at this".
0:37:56 > 0:37:59I thought they were a bunch of renegades just came in.
0:38:01 > 0:38:02But, erm...
0:38:03 > 0:38:06They're Mujahideen.
0:38:06 > 0:38:08Hezbollah Mujahideen showed up.
0:38:09 > 0:38:13Here I am. I finally met them.
0:38:15 > 0:38:17One coming up behind me.
0:38:18 > 0:38:21Hope they're OK with me.
0:38:21 > 0:38:23We're foreigners. Afghanis.
0:38:24 > 0:38:26MEN ARGUE
0:38:31 > 0:38:35I didn't know what was happening, cos I couldn't understand them.
0:38:35 > 0:38:39They're surrounding me, saying to some of the locals saying,
0:38:39 > 0:38:41"What are you doing with a foreigner?"
0:38:41 > 0:38:44"We told you not to bring foreigners here. We're going to kill him."
0:38:46 > 0:38:48But I don't understand that, and in the edit suite,
0:38:48 > 0:38:51we're watching it later, and I hear my voice saying,
0:38:51 > 0:38:52"Is there a problem?"
0:38:52 > 0:38:55My translator says, "No. Everything's fine."
0:38:55 > 0:38:57Then they say, "We're going to cut",
0:38:57 > 0:39:00these Mujahideen say, "We're going to cut his head off."
0:39:00 > 0:39:04Then I say, "Is there anything I can do to help? "Is it a visa problem?"
0:39:04 > 0:39:07My first encounter.
0:39:11 > 0:39:14They were hardcore.
0:39:14 > 0:39:15Let's go.
0:39:17 > 0:39:21They seemed to be mentioning the BBC in angry tones.
0:39:24 > 0:39:28I wasn't sure if they were wanting to shoot at me or shoot for me.
0:39:28 > 0:39:29The camera...
0:39:29 > 0:39:33The BBC saw that documentary and thought, "He's clueless."
0:39:33 > 0:39:36"We'll send him to Afghanistan to make tea with the Taleban."
0:39:36 > 0:39:39So I made the first film during the Taleban regime.
0:39:39 > 0:39:43And in that, you see me...
0:39:43 > 0:39:47..not doing the Jeremy Paxman or the foreign news...
0:39:47 > 0:39:50Not doing the hard news journalist story.
0:39:50 > 0:39:53I'm talking about their wives, children, having a laugh.
0:39:54 > 0:39:56And with hindsight I realised two things.
0:39:56 > 0:40:01One, they trusted me, because clearly I was not a threat. I was no spy.
0:40:01 > 0:40:04There was critic once who said I had an interesting interview technique.
0:40:04 > 0:40:06I didn't have one.
0:40:06 > 0:40:08It was actually a good defence mechanism,
0:40:08 > 0:40:10because they could pick up that this guy is clearly not a spy.
0:40:10 > 0:40:12"He's clearly not a journalist."
0:40:12 > 0:40:15"If he is...we've got nothing to worry about."
0:40:16 > 0:40:18Come and have tea with us. >
0:40:18 > 0:40:21Cos we have to... There's a curfew.
0:40:21 > 0:40:23I think we have to get back.
0:40:23 > 0:40:27Should we have one cup of tea? One cup tea, I would love one cup.
0:40:27 > 0:40:32- One cup.- How about interviews?- Yes. We'll have one cup of tea and a chat.
0:40:33 > 0:40:35Another tea with the Taleban.
0:40:38 > 0:40:40One minute they banned filming,
0:40:40 > 0:40:43but now they're my friend. They want to be in the film now.
0:40:46 > 0:40:49But when I started to get to know too much, actually, it became trouble.
0:40:49 > 0:40:52I remember later on, the Taleban became very suspicious of me
0:40:52 > 0:40:55during this present insurgency that I spent too much time
0:40:55 > 0:40:58with soldiers and I knew too much about weapons or...
0:40:58 > 0:41:02And the questions I started asking were the serious news questions like,
0:41:02 > 0:41:06"What's your strategy?" not "Who's your wife?",
0:41:06 > 0:41:11and actually, that probably didn't help during my kidnap
0:41:11 > 0:41:16that there was some suspicions that I wasn't a journalist.
0:41:16 > 0:41:21You talk about just you with the camera and video diaries,
0:41:21 > 0:41:24and it's incredibly popular now, partly because it's cheap,
0:41:24 > 0:41:28but presumably that was one of the motivations at the time.
0:41:28 > 0:41:32- You were a cheap programme maker. - Yeah. Well, recently...
0:41:32 > 0:41:35Video diaries were started by the BBC and it revolutionised TV.
0:41:35 > 0:41:38It started because of small cameras and they gave it
0:41:38 > 0:41:40to members of the public to film their lives.
0:41:40 > 0:41:45They didn't want media people to do video diaries,
0:41:45 > 0:41:48cos we tended to edit ourselves,
0:41:48 > 0:41:49but because I'm such a bad journalist,
0:41:49 > 0:41:52I was like a member of the public with a camera.
0:41:56 > 0:41:58My films actually weren't cheap.
0:41:58 > 0:42:02They were, the original ones, because I...
0:42:02 > 0:42:08Most in-depth documentaries spend two weeks abroad, and I spent...
0:42:08 > 0:42:12Meeting the Taleban and Fighting the Taleban, six months.
0:42:12 > 0:42:19I lost about a year making a film. So, in fact, my expenses make up...
0:42:19 > 0:42:23I can't say the word 'expenses' without smiling, cos once,
0:42:23 > 0:42:29Channel 4 picked up one receipt for a French restaurant in Kabul,
0:42:29 > 0:42:33and on this receipt was a bottle of Sancerre, foie gras and some pork.
0:42:33 > 0:42:37And on the back I'd written, "Interview with Islamic contact."
0:42:37 > 0:42:39He says, that doesn't look real."
0:42:39 > 0:42:41You're going to be very useful to historians,
0:42:41 > 0:42:45because those two huge involvements of the British and Americans in Iraq
0:42:45 > 0:42:49and Afghanistan, the significance of the Taleban and their rise...
0:42:49 > 0:42:54You've told all those stories. But was that systematic?
0:42:54 > 0:42:58Were you thinking, "This is going to be my territory?"
0:43:00 > 0:43:06It's odd how chance, luck plays such a part.
0:43:06 > 0:43:10My first documentary happened to be about five Western tourists
0:43:10 > 0:43:13kidnapped by Islamic extremists.
0:43:13 > 0:43:16So when you make that, the BBC then said,
0:43:16 > 0:43:19"Well, you do Islamic extremists."
0:43:19 > 0:43:21"Why don't you go and make a film about the Taleban?"
0:43:21 > 0:43:27And that came out a few months before 9/11.
0:43:27 > 0:43:29So when 9/11 happened,
0:43:29 > 0:43:33I actually went to Argentina cos I thought I'd already done quite a lot.
0:43:33 > 0:43:37But in Iraq I made this documentary called Mission Accomplished
0:43:37 > 0:43:42about the insurgency, and it was just after the fall of the statue
0:43:42 > 0:43:45of Saddam when most news corporations had spent lots of money
0:43:45 > 0:43:50covering the invasion, and actually the real war was yet to begin.
0:43:50 > 0:43:53I remember sitting there, filming with insurgents,
0:43:53 > 0:43:56people fighting the Americans,
0:43:56 > 0:43:59and seeing this was a war and it wasn't being reported.
0:43:59 > 0:44:05One of the things that stayed with me covering this story was,
0:44:05 > 0:44:09it was like having a toy shop to yourself.
0:44:09 > 0:44:12At that point, I couldn't understand how this media machine,
0:44:12 > 0:44:15with our 24-hour rolling news...
0:44:15 > 0:44:17Its blind spot was massive.
0:44:19 > 0:44:21CHATTERING
0:44:24 > 0:44:25Here.
0:44:38 > 0:44:41'Baghdad felt like a city under occupation.
0:44:41 > 0:44:43'Out here in the fields surrounding Fallujah,
0:44:43 > 0:44:45'it felt more like a war zone.'
0:44:47 > 0:44:50When I came back, I then showed the footage to the BBC,
0:44:50 > 0:44:53and to their credit, they said, "This is good",
0:44:53 > 0:44:59and it then was turned into a film shown in cinemas in America.
0:45:00 > 0:45:02I was lucky.
0:45:02 > 0:45:06I discovered a blueprint which works for me for making good films,
0:45:06 > 0:45:09which is, you stay and place long enough, you find a story
0:45:09 > 0:45:13you're in love with, and you stay there till you've finished it.
0:45:13 > 0:45:15You're going to get good moments.
0:45:15 > 0:45:19'We were set to go when someone saw wires protruding from the ground,
0:45:19 > 0:45:22'an IED which could be set off at any moment by remote control.'
0:45:27 > 0:45:29'I took cover behind a humvee
0:45:29 > 0:45:31and waited for the Americans to blow the bomb.'
0:45:33 > 0:45:34EXPLOSION
0:45:43 > 0:45:45That stuff just landed behind me.
0:45:50 > 0:45:53The persona has always been the outsider.
0:45:53 > 0:45:56I'm thinking particularly of Fighting The Taleban,
0:45:56 > 0:45:58where it was crucial that you were an outsider.
0:45:58 > 0:46:02The Ministry of Defence didn't want you anywhere near the British Army.
0:46:02 > 0:46:04I mean that's why it became the film it did.
0:46:04 > 0:46:06That was back in 2006
0:46:06 > 0:46:10when there hadn't been any footage on TV of the actual war.
0:46:10 > 0:46:12So the Labour government was still peddling the line
0:46:12 > 0:46:15about peacekeeping, "we're winning".
0:46:15 > 0:46:19All the journalists then knew in 2006 there was a war going on there
0:46:19 > 0:46:21and we were getting our arses kicked.
0:46:21 > 0:46:24So the MoD didn't want journalists to see this.
0:46:24 > 0:46:27I approached one of the British generals and said,
0:46:27 > 0:46:28"I've been filming with the Taleban.
0:46:28 > 0:46:31"It's going to look like there's an insurgency
0:46:31 > 0:46:34"and no counter-insurgency."
0:46:34 > 0:46:38The British soldiers, really good, the military were fantastic, there was no...
0:46:38 > 0:46:40There's often questions about embedding -
0:46:40 > 0:46:43"Are you controlled?" There was no control.
0:46:43 > 0:46:47And it just so happened that we pull in to this town called Garmsir
0:46:47 > 0:46:50and the intelligence had been 50 Taleban and there was about 500.
0:46:50 > 0:46:54And I'm with 17 British soldiers who then got pinned down,
0:46:54 > 0:46:57it was like Zulu Dawn, for about eight days.
0:46:57 > 0:47:02And it really was, that week was a microcosm of all that's gone wrong
0:47:02 > 0:47:04in Britain's involvement.
0:47:04 > 0:47:07They ran out of ammo, ran out of medical kit.
0:47:07 > 0:47:10There was mass casualties every day,
0:47:10 > 0:47:14I had to burn my clothes at the end of it cos the blood smells
0:47:14 > 0:47:19like metal, iron, it's like iron filings, I discovered that's blood.
0:47:21 > 0:47:25'The soldiers gathered all the ammunition they could.
0:47:28 > 0:47:31'They're getting out all their anti-tank missiles
0:47:31 > 0:47:33'cos there's still a lot of Taleban
0:47:33 > 0:47:37'we are expecting a lot of incoming tonight.
0:47:39 > 0:47:42'They're just seeing how much munitions they've got.
0:47:44 > 0:47:48'This is our second night here in Garmsir.
0:47:50 > 0:47:53'And there's a dying Taleban prisoner behind us
0:47:53 > 0:47:55'who they're giving medical aid to.'
0:47:56 > 0:48:01Tony Blair's grandiloquous foreign policy was laid bare
0:48:01 > 0:48:05when I saw a couple of unarmed Land Rovers, and if only one of them
0:48:05 > 0:48:09had been taken out, we would have lost this so-called strategic town.
0:48:09 > 0:48:14And yet at the same time was the incredible bravery
0:48:14 > 0:48:16and professionalism of these soldiers, we really bonded.
0:48:16 > 0:48:19So I was up there getting shot at every day with them.
0:48:19 > 0:48:22Then they opened up and it was really like a band of brothers.
0:48:22 > 0:48:25It was one of the most amazing experiences of my life.
0:48:25 > 0:48:27'What we have to be careful of now is that
0:48:27 > 0:48:31- 'they've infiltrated along the eastern flank of the canal.- Right.
0:48:31 > 0:48:34- 'Careful of ambushes to the right. - OK.- Keep your head down.
0:48:34 > 0:48:36'Dougie was right, we were ambushed.
0:48:41 > 0:48:44'Movement to the rear!
0:48:48 > 0:48:52'Just when we needed it most, the 50-calibre gun jammed.
0:48:52 > 0:48:54'Not for the first time that week.'
0:49:02 > 0:49:06So, yeah, the fighting got so intense I came to understand
0:49:06 > 0:49:07the meaning of "bite the dirt"
0:49:07 > 0:49:09because I threw myself into this ditch,
0:49:09 > 0:49:12pinned down by the Taleban, you know.
0:49:12 > 0:49:17'Today is the fifth anniversary of 9/11.
0:49:17 > 0:49:21'11th September, and five years after we were supposed to have
0:49:21 > 0:49:24'deposed the Taleban...
0:49:24 > 0:49:27'and defeated Al-Qaeda.
0:49:27 > 0:49:30'Here I am sitting in a trench
0:49:30 > 0:49:33'and the Taleban are counter-attacking.
0:49:33 > 0:49:35'British forces are in the most intense fighting
0:49:35 > 0:49:39'they've been in since the end of Korea.
0:49:39 > 0:49:42'And that includes the Falklands and Iraq.
0:49:42 > 0:49:46'And I think it's best to keep moving.'
0:49:46 > 0:49:50It's not like the movies like Black Hawk Down. Those films slow...
0:49:50 > 0:49:53You never see bullets or missiles flying through the air,
0:49:53 > 0:49:56but in fact, they were so close my camera caught its flame
0:49:56 > 0:50:01and I'm ducking and then bullets now...
0:50:01 > 0:50:04When they are very close, you hear, it's like fire crackers.
0:50:07 > 0:50:09(BEEP)
0:50:09 > 0:50:11'Bullets flying all around us.'
0:50:11 > 0:50:15Bullets are flying past your head and at that point I'm burying myself
0:50:15 > 0:50:17in the sand and it's so intense,
0:50:17 > 0:50:20I'm like, "I wish I hadn't come here."
0:50:20 > 0:50:22Were you frightened then?
0:50:22 > 0:50:25Er, what I found really frightening is what I do,
0:50:25 > 0:50:27which I was doing a lot of, is going undercover on my own.
0:50:27 > 0:50:29It's called "low profile",
0:50:29 > 0:50:32you don't have security guards, you don't have an armoured car.
0:50:32 > 0:50:33When I'd go and meet the Taleban,
0:50:33 > 0:50:36you're naked and incredibly vulnerable,
0:50:36 > 0:50:41because that was my defense - to say "I've got no guns, no sat phone".
0:50:41 > 0:50:43And it looks, perhaps, an odd thing to do,
0:50:43 > 0:50:45but for ten years it worked successfully.
0:50:51 > 0:50:53'Are we safe from the air with this many?
0:50:55 > 0:50:58'Are they not frightened of the bombs from the sky?
0:50:58 > 0:51:02'I'm very frightened we're going to get hit.
0:51:02 > 0:51:03'By my American friends.
0:51:11 > 0:51:13Coming back round to where we started
0:51:13 > 0:51:14which is the kidnap and release.
0:51:14 > 0:51:16One of the odd aspects of this,
0:51:16 > 0:51:19which other hostages have had to go through recently,
0:51:19 > 0:51:21is that when you got out because Channel 4 had negotiated
0:51:21 > 0:51:23and by assumption paid to get you out,
0:51:23 > 0:51:26there would be phone-ins with people saying,
0:51:26 > 0:51:30"No, we should have left him there because it gives comfort to terrorists."
0:51:30 > 0:51:32And MPs were saying this as well.
0:51:32 > 0:51:35I wonder psychologically what that's like?
0:51:35 > 0:51:38You know, it's really odd, the Daily Mail...
0:51:38 > 0:51:41And here's the thing, my ex-wife was an editor on the Daily Mail.
0:51:41 > 0:51:43Er, and I was a Guardian journalist,
0:51:43 > 0:51:47that's why that marriage was not going to last! Er...
0:51:47 > 0:51:50But there was, on the Comments page...
0:51:50 > 0:51:54The Daily Mail interviewed me and the comments were...
0:51:54 > 0:51:58All I said in this article was how I missed my children,
0:51:58 > 0:52:01I'm crying, blah-blah-blah. They're like, "Serves him right."
0:52:01 > 0:52:04And of course they're right, but, you know,
0:52:04 > 0:52:08I was thinking what kind of person is there on a Friday afternoon,
0:52:08 > 0:52:10reading about someone who nearly died
0:52:10 > 0:52:15and missed his children and feels the need to say, "Nah, serves you right".
0:52:15 > 0:52:21Then there was the "outraged MP", David Davis, who actually,
0:52:21 > 0:52:27as we kind of know, he was called up by a newspaper
0:52:27 > 0:52:29and asked to give an outraged quote and he did.
0:52:29 > 0:52:35But there is a serious debate which is you shouldn't negotiate
0:52:35 > 0:52:39with terrorists and you shouldn't pay.
0:52:39 > 0:52:44Now I would say from personal experience when your life,
0:52:44 > 0:52:46when you know what these people are like,
0:52:46 > 0:52:48it became an incredibly important thing for me
0:52:48 > 0:52:51that I didn't want on my conscience,
0:52:51 > 0:52:54that my liberty was bought at the price of other people's death,
0:52:54 > 0:52:56women and children.
0:52:56 > 0:53:02So in fact Channel 4 have always denied paying any ransom.
0:53:02 > 0:53:06And so I don't know what happened. I was always against...
0:53:06 > 0:53:09- They've denied publicly. - You must have asked them though.
0:53:09 > 0:53:12I tell you what, Channel 4 have been brilliant,
0:53:12 > 0:53:16they paid £15,000 for my dental care, putting my teeth back together,
0:53:16 > 0:53:20they put me on a sort of gardening leave, I was given money.
0:53:20 > 0:53:23But you know when I was coming back with the goods, er, I could do
0:53:23 > 0:53:29no wrong - they put me up for two BAFTAs, a RTS, and I won in Canada.
0:53:29 > 0:53:32Then I get kidnapped and I'm kind of,
0:53:32 > 0:53:35"We don't want to deal with you, you're trouble."
0:53:35 > 0:53:37So they didn't tell me, I did ask, but they didn't tell me.
0:53:37 > 0:53:41One of the things that struck me watching the film is that
0:53:41 > 0:53:45in the film at one point, the drama, you say, to your sons actually,
0:53:45 > 0:53:49"Once I've been on this trip, I'm going to write a book about it all."
0:53:49 > 0:53:51And your website for a number of years has said
0:53:51 > 0:53:54"I'm pretending to write a book."
0:53:54 > 0:53:56Even in a depressed publishing market
0:53:56 > 0:54:00I would guess that you could have got about a quarter of a million
0:54:00 > 0:54:04when you first came out for the diaries or a memoir.
0:54:04 > 0:54:07I think that figure is probably fair.
0:54:07 > 0:54:09So I was interested in why you never did it.
0:54:09 > 0:54:12I wasn't ready. That's the post- traumatic stress disorder.
0:54:12 > 0:54:15I was offered a lot of money.
0:54:15 > 0:54:18And now, of course, I'm ready to write it.
0:54:18 > 0:54:23This drama was actually my coming out party, as it were. My coming out after post-traumatic stress disorder.
0:54:23 > 0:54:30So, it was quite traumatic, sort of, helping the BBC make this film,
0:54:30 > 0:54:34and sort of co-writing it and getting involved.
0:54:34 > 0:54:37But it broke... it really did.
0:54:37 > 0:54:39It made me confront things.
0:54:39 > 0:54:43So now I am writing a book but it is post-financial collapse,
0:54:43 > 0:54:47two years after the story, so I didn't get £250,000 but I am now writing it.
0:54:47 > 0:54:53The other big question underlying all this is we all know great and brave journalists
0:54:53 > 0:54:59who have died in the pursuit of the story and, in the end, it always comes up. Is it worth it?
0:54:59 > 0:55:03Did you reflect on that when you were... You must have reflected on that?
0:55:03 > 0:55:09This is another of those things where my memories would buoy me up or occasionally drag me down.
0:55:09 > 0:55:11Some things help you stay afloat.
0:55:11 > 0:55:16So, looking at the photograph of my children for two minutes would help me stay afloat.
0:55:16 > 0:55:21Look at it for five minutes, I'd be distraught thinking what a bastard I was to leave them
0:55:21 > 0:55:23because I was going to write a letter.
0:55:23 > 0:55:30In fact, I did write this letter, which is quite typical of foreign journalist to do, to "Dear, Son".
0:55:30 > 0:55:37You know, you don't know me. I'm your dad, I was your dad. I just want to tell you I love you.
0:55:37 > 0:55:42I got halfway through this letter, which I intended to hide in one of my orifices.
0:55:44 > 0:55:46I was going to leave a letter to my son, Luke,
0:55:48 > 0:55:51saying how I loved him.
0:55:51 > 0:55:54Of course, I realised, aged 21, if he reads this he'll think, you fraud
0:55:54 > 0:55:57because I didn't die getting knocked over by a bus,
0:55:57 > 0:56:03I didn't even get killed like Marie Colvin in a bombardment.
0:56:03 > 0:56:04I crossed from Afghanistan
0:56:04 > 0:56:08into what President Barack Obama described as the most dangerous place in the world.
0:56:08 > 0:56:14I went into AlQaeda/Taliban's secret haven and, more to the point,
0:56:14 > 0:56:20a place that was so politically sensitive because Pakistan had denied its existence.
0:56:20 > 0:56:24It was a suicide mission, not a documentary.
0:56:24 > 0:56:31They were never going to let a journalist walk out of there to say, by the way, I've revealed this.
0:56:31 > 0:56:38I knew they knew I was in there so it was playing Russian roulette.
0:56:38 > 0:56:42So, after years of endangering my life
0:56:42 > 0:56:46and having children, I suddenly thought,
0:56:46 > 0:56:49I'm going to burn my passport, I could happily never leave Europe again.
0:56:49 > 0:56:52Are you happy to go on making films?
0:56:52 > 0:56:53I've knocked on the head...
0:56:53 > 0:56:59I'm not no longer going to be under cover with terrorists, hanging out with terrorists a lot of the time.
0:56:59 > 0:57:02I don't want to say never again with war zones.
0:57:02 > 0:57:04How do you get through it?
0:57:04 > 0:57:08Partly because I'm reconnecting to how I felt in there.
0:57:08 > 0:57:13How I felt in there was, life is a gift and it really is.
0:57:13 > 0:57:17Covering the Soviet Union as a young foreign correspondent, the collapse,
0:57:17 > 0:57:19I remember a lovely quote about freedom.
0:57:19 > 0:57:24Liberty is like oxygen, you only really appreciate it when it's taken away from you.
0:57:24 > 0:57:29And having liberty taken away, having my children taken away,
0:57:29 > 0:57:34I became acutely sensitive to how wonderful that all is.
0:57:34 > 0:57:39So, I'm trying to reconnect with how I felt in there as a way of recovering.
0:57:39 > 0:57:44I did some of the things I dreamt of. I took my children to Disneyland. Er...
0:57:44 > 0:57:49Just spending quality time with them and I think I've slightly improved.
0:57:49 > 0:57:53I've processed in a rather negative way. I self medicated when I came out.
0:57:53 > 0:57:55I drank a lot, went out a lot.
0:57:55 > 0:57:59Er... and that doesn't work.
0:57:59 > 0:58:02It's a great privilege to know, to have insight into your life.
0:58:02 > 0:58:07Not that I put it into practice when I came out, by the way. That's one of the ironies.
0:58:07 > 0:58:12I was going to become a cross between Jesus Christ and Mother Teresa when I came out.
0:58:12 > 0:58:17Within a week, I'm drinking strawberry daiquiris in some bar talking rubbish!
0:58:17 > 0:58:19Er...
0:58:19 > 0:58:23But I remember thinking, it was a great lesson in life.
0:58:23 > 0:58:28The greatest lesson you can have going through that but if anyone wanted to give me that lesson again,
0:58:28 > 0:58:30I would kill them.
0:58:30 > 0:58:35- Sean Langan, thank you. - Thank you, Mark.
0:58:50 > 0:58:54Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd