:00:32. > :00:38.Steve Coogan became famous by playing an infamous broadcaster
:00:39. > :00:44.Alan Partridge, his career took his from sports casting via an homicidal
:00:45. > :00:50.chat show to North Norfolk Digital and recently a major movie, Alan
:00:51. > :00:54.Partridge Alan Partridge: Alph Papa. In mid career Coogan had two
:00:55. > :01:00.problems, escaping the shadow of Partridge and suffering tabloid
:01:01. > :01:13.coverage of his private life. He appeared as a witness at the
:01:14. > :01:22.Leveson Leveson Inquiry. Coogan is co-producer and co-writer
:01:23. > :01:38.and co-stars es with Judi Dench in Philomena.
:01:39. > :01:45.You played many fictional characters, and you have played
:01:46. > :01:50.characters called Steve Coogan, I always wonder about this, is there
:01:51. > :01:56.another version of Steve Coogan that is prepared for interviews and
:01:57. > :02:02.public appearances. You can never be yourself, can you? When you are
:02:03. > :02:06.younger, not sure how you are and you are paranoid how you are
:02:07. > :02:16.perceived. I am less bothered about how I am perceived. So I think I
:02:17. > :02:21.like to think I am fairly forthright and honest, or more honest as I get
:02:22. > :02:23.older. It strikes me you have reached a position professionally
:02:24. > :02:31.that you have been fighting towards for quite a long time, in the same
:02:32. > :02:37.period you have a hit Alan Partridge film and you have a hit non-Alan
:02:38. > :02:42.Partridge film, Philomena. And that, it seems to me, that has been your
:02:43. > :02:48.aim for a long time to get Partridge among equals as it were? Yes, I want
:02:49. > :02:54.to have my cake and eat it really. It is very difficult in this
:02:55. > :03:01.country, because when you have a successful character, people don't
:03:02. > :03:04.consider you seriously and that is, as problems go it is quite a nice
:03:05. > :03:08.problem to have, because it is the result of being successful. I love
:03:09. > :03:12.doing Alan Partridge and doing comedy but I want to be able to keep
:03:13. > :03:20.doing it when I feel like it and also do other things, because
:03:21. > :03:26.otherwise I get bored. Philomena - I was looking around for something. I
:03:27. > :03:33.am not a workaholic. I would rather sit at home doing nothing, but you
:03:34. > :03:36.have to create your own opportunities and also when you are
:03:37. > :03:41.the architect of your work, with other people of course, there is a
:03:42. > :03:44.perception that people don't offer you work because you are always
:03:45. > :03:52.doing your own thing, so you have to do your own thing in the end.
:03:53. > :04:01.Philomena was me try to go do something different. There is a book
:04:02. > :04:09.by Martin Sixsmith, about someone who was forced to give up a child,
:04:10. > :04:20.but you were on to it very early. I I think. There was an article in the
:04:21. > :04:23.Guardian four years ago, and I optioned the book on the strength of
:04:24. > :04:27.the article because I found it very moving. I thought other people would
:04:28. > :04:35.connect with it, too. Because it was about a mother and a son, which is
:04:36. > :04:43.fairly universal. And it was just, it was authentic and one of the
:04:44. > :04:51.reasons that motivated me to pursue it, apart from the fact that I had
:04:52. > :04:56.been half Irish, Catholic myself and Philomena being an old eccentric
:04:57. > :05:04.Irish Catholic, I have grown up knowing a few of those, what made me
:05:05. > :05:08.want to do something like this was that it was, I wanted to do
:05:09. > :05:21.something that was authentic and sincere. Because what annoys me
:05:22. > :05:28.about lots of cinema and television, there is a lot of cynicism and irony
:05:29. > :05:34.and post-modernism that seems to pervade everything and it is
:05:35. > :05:39.tiresome. It was necessary in reaction to something but I feel
:05:40. > :05:45.like it's become an inindividualius thing where people are scared to be
:05:46. > :05:50.sincere. This woman had a baby who had a baby and kept it a secret for
:05:51. > :05:56.50 years. It would be a human interest story, I don't do those. It
:05:57. > :06:03.is both biographical, about real people, but auto biographical
:06:04. > :06:11.because Martin Sixsmith is not a lapsed Catholic, so so he is a lan
:06:12. > :06:14.cast re-an lapsed Catholic so that is more you than him I decided,
:06:15. > :06:20.because when you are writing, you write about what you know, I felt
:06:21. > :06:25.like because for me a lot of the material put into the screenplay,
:06:26. > :06:30.Jeff Pope and I, I wrote it with Jeff, was based on interviews we did
:06:31. > :06:37.with Philomena and Martin. I had to create tension between two
:06:38. > :06:44.characters to make the narrative resonate and have tension and have
:06:45. > :06:49.drama and so I put something of myself into it, my lapsed
:06:50. > :06:54.Catholicism. It balances with the Philomena character because she is a
:06:55. > :07:02.woman who has suffered a great deal and yet retained herself and the
:07:03. > :07:05.Martin Six smith character lass lost his faith. There are people in my
:07:06. > :07:11.life who do have faith and I respect them, and I think they are good
:07:12. > :07:20.people and the way I was raised was with very good values and the values
:07:21. > :07:27.of my parents gave to me are very important to me and I was inspired
:07:28. > :07:34.by their Catholicism. Caring about the weak and dis disenfranchised
:07:35. > :07:39.were all things I have inherited and I don't believe in certain things
:07:40. > :07:46.about Christianity, I don't believe Jesus Christ died for our sins, I
:07:47. > :07:53.don't believe that, but I wanted to have this conversation where I could
:07:54. > :08:01.find some sort of equal libbium between recognising and dignify
:08:02. > :08:13.dignifying people of simple faith, unremarkable in some ways, but very
:08:14. > :08:18.good lives. And Distinguish between those and the church institution. I
:08:19. > :08:24.asked Philomena, because we conducted these interviews, how if
:08:25. > :08:28.she forgave the nuns for what they did to her and she said yes, she
:08:29. > :08:34.did, she didn't hesitate when she answered that question. I found that
:08:35. > :08:42.interesting. At the same time, her daughter Jane, who was with us. I
:08:43. > :08:51.don't like that word. Evil is good. Story-wise, I mean. Do you remember
:08:52. > :08:55.anything he said? Hello. Might have been hi. There is a fascinating
:08:56. > :09:03.speech you give to Philomena in the film, where she says that the sex
:09:04. > :09:08.that led to the conception of the child was fantastic, one of the best
:09:09. > :09:12.things that had happened to her Was that dramatic licence? It was, I
:09:13. > :09:16.tell you why. It is counter intuitive, because there is this
:09:17. > :09:20.received wisdom that people should say their first experience of sex
:09:21. > :09:28.was dreadful, and that you shouldn't have old people talk about sex,
:09:29. > :09:32.because you shouldn't imagine people were once young people and had lots
:09:33. > :09:37.of sex when they were young. I wanted to show that older people
:09:38. > :09:50.used to be young and used to be sexually active. Because especially
:09:51. > :09:53.as a broad side against the idea of demonising sexuality and sexual
:09:54. > :09:58.feelings, that I think the church has done. In the war between British
:09:59. > :10:14.newspapers and show business, of which you are a major soldier One of
:10:15. > :10:22.the tabloids had film filmed facts. It is such a bad approach to art. I
:10:23. > :10:31.would like them to fact check Richard III by William Shakespeare.
:10:32. > :10:40.We don't know, but it's nonsense. Every historical play by Shakespeare
:10:41. > :10:44.is true to - there is an essence of truth. As you are aware there is
:10:45. > :10:48.another agenda going on, they are trying to say these guys are
:10:49. > :10:54.inaccurate and they make the stuff up and then complain about the
:10:55. > :11:01.press. Yes, well I would say that that's indicative of the reductive
:11:02. > :11:07.simplistic way they try to try to serve debate in this country.
:11:08. > :11:15.Because it's not in anyone's interests - not in their interests,
:11:16. > :11:21.to have an intelligent grown up calm conversation about the various
:11:22. > :11:25.nuances that need to be talked about in terms of accountability and the
:11:26. > :11:31.press being enabled to express themselves freely and it is a
:11:32. > :11:36.nuanced argument. They don't want to acknowledge that. To be reductive
:11:37. > :11:43.and simplistic at every turn is what they do. In that connection you are
:11:44. > :11:48.one of those people, you are caught in a paradox, that in order to argue
:11:49. > :11:52.for privacy, you have to go public, and that in order to take on
:11:53. > :11:57.newspapers, you risk becoming a target for those newspapers, but you
:11:58. > :12:04.would say that your calculation is that the outcome might make that
:12:05. > :12:11.worthwhile. The ire I invite is more than outweighed by my own
:12:12. > :12:15.self-respect, because I could have not got involved, if I had been
:12:16. > :12:20.self-serving, because it doesn't benefit me. If you were cynical you
:12:21. > :12:26.would think it is part of a grand plan to elevate myself. Let's just
:12:27. > :12:30.say the editor of the Daily Mail wouldn't suspect it is self-serving
:12:31. > :12:35.because if you managed to bring in any kind of regulation or
:12:36. > :12:40.legislation, you can then do whatever you want, you won't be
:12:41. > :12:45.reported. He would say that because he would want to reduce the argument
:12:46. > :12:50.so something that he's self-serving and simplistic. I didn't want to be
:12:51. > :12:57.involved. I saw a lop sided argument on television s where an argument
:12:58. > :13:02.that was framed by the press in a way that was misrepresentative and
:13:03. > :13:06.dishonest, which is nothing like the wording and the proposals that
:13:07. > :13:11.Leveson himself recommended, has been hardly any analysis of
:13:12. > :13:20.Leveson's recommendations. It's all been this broad generalations. They
:13:21. > :13:25.are not interested in this whole hijacking argument of press freedom,
:13:26. > :13:31.is them framing the debate and it's been repeated on television and
:13:32. > :13:35.people haven't actually acknowledged what is in the royal charter, the
:13:36. > :13:38.details in the royal charter. It is about self-regulation,
:13:39. > :13:47.self-regulation needs to have teeth. I don't want to go into detail, but
:13:48. > :13:51.press officer son of P CC, Press Complaints Commission. Which is run
:13:52. > :13:56.by the editor of the Daily Mail Yes, also some of the things that
:13:57. > :13:59.they are objecting to, if you actually break it down to the
:14:00. > :14:05.details and explain them to the man in the street, the public are very
:14:06. > :14:08.much on the side of we at hacked off, because they see it as entirely
:14:09. > :14:16.reasonable but that won't be reflected in the way the press, most
:14:17. > :14:20.of the press report T For example, equal prominence, hacked off, if the
:14:21. > :14:25.paper prints something that is a lie or untrue they want the correction
:14:26. > :14:29.or apology to have equal prominence. If you explain that to the public,
:14:30. > :14:36.if someone prints a lie on page one in a headline, that the retrauks
:14:37. > :14:42.should be a one inch column on page 16 is laughable. Most reasonable
:14:43. > :14:46.people thinks that is entirely fair. They don't want that, you have to
:14:47. > :14:50.ask yourself is why don't you want that. Where it gets complicated for
:14:51. > :14:55.a lot of people is, you are right, most people, if it is a question of
:14:56. > :14:59.printing a lie in a newspaper, most people find that quite easy. Where
:15:00. > :15:05.it gets more complex is the question of the private truth. So let's take
:15:06. > :15:10.an example, soap opera star who is using cocaine in private or having
:15:11. > :15:14.an affair, does the public have any right to know about those things? I
:15:15. > :15:21.think it is to do with what is in the public interest. If someone is
:15:22. > :15:27.sleeping with someone who is not their wife and they are, they have
:15:28. > :15:30.not put themselves forward as the paragon of virtue, that is not in
:15:31. > :15:36.the public interest, it is none of their business. If someone was a
:15:37. > :15:44.politician who was trying to get elected based on very conservative
:15:45. > :15:48.values of constantly using family values and his family as something
:15:49. > :15:54.to help him get elected and saying those were the values he had and was
:15:55. > :15:59.perhaps judgmental about for example gay lifestyles and it turned out
:16:00. > :16:03.that he was secretly gay, you could, of course, argue that hypocrisy of
:16:04. > :16:08.someone who is going to be a public representative, to expose that would
:16:09. > :16:13.be in the public interest. What about an actor, for example, their
:16:14. > :16:16.marriage is in the newspapers, allow themselves to be photograph the A
:16:17. > :16:22.few years later that marriage is in trouble. There is an argument used
:16:23. > :16:25.very often by newspapers which is they were happy enough to have
:16:26. > :16:31.publicity when it was going well. It has to be on a case by case basis.
:16:32. > :16:35.My involvement at Hacked Off isn't to represent famous people. My
:16:36. > :16:40.involvement is because I have a platform afforded by the fact that
:16:41. > :16:46.what I do for a living gives me a public profile, means I can speak on
:16:47. > :17:00.behalf of people who don't want to be on camera, like Chris Jeffries,
:17:01. > :17:05.Joanna Yates. My involvement really is purely because I want, I love and
:17:06. > :17:09.admire public interest journalism, I want to see a better level of
:17:10. > :17:14.journalism in this country. There is a cynicism about certain newspapers.
:17:15. > :17:18.It is nothing really to do with this idea of them being restricted in
:17:19. > :17:24.their great pursuit of the truth. I don't for a second think that Rupert
:17:25. > :17:29.Murdoch is a great, on a great white charger on his quest for press
:17:30. > :17:33.freedom. The only ideology he has is to be able to practice and prop gate
:17:34. > :17:39.his own business interests with no restrictions whatsoever. That is his
:17:40. > :17:56.ideology. I will try and think of something positive to say about Paul
:17:57. > :18:06.day cue the other day, I he means it. But really this is just about
:18:07. > :18:09.business, it is not about ethings. It is about satisfying shareholders.
:18:10. > :18:12.The fact you are turned other by the tabloids and you have been on the
:18:13. > :18:17.kiss and tells, it would be reasonable to me if that did, if
:18:18. > :18:24.that was one reason you were involved in this? It is not. Because
:18:25. > :18:28.when I got involved in it, that was all fading into the background. I
:18:29. > :18:34.knew getting involved they would drag it all up again. If I wanted to
:18:35. > :18:38.bury that, I would have let sleeping dogs lie. I knew when I got involved
:18:39. > :18:41.with this, they were going to trau through all the old clippings -
:18:42. > :18:46.trawl through all the old clippings. It is convenient for them to label
:18:47. > :18:50.it as personal. It is not. I like good journalists, I don't like
:18:51. > :18:55.really bad journalists. Without going to the north//south divide, I
:18:56. > :19:00.am interested in how much of the most successful English comedy has
:19:01. > :19:04.come from the north of England. Victoria Wood, Peter Kay, yourself I
:19:05. > :19:08.will include in that list. Is there something in northern speech or
:19:09. > :19:17.attitudes or life that is useful to comedy? I think there is an
:19:18. > :19:24.emotional conservatism in northern working class people. Which means
:19:25. > :19:32.that affection is expressed often with humour. It is also tied in
:19:33. > :19:39.hardship. I used to think that Les Dawson when he used to do his
:19:40. > :19:46.comedy, it was the most articulate expression of the comedy of poverty
:19:47. > :19:51.and repression, because his comedy inspired me a lot actually. It was
:19:52. > :19:57.the comedy of his life being no good. His life being miserable. And
:19:58. > :20:04.within that misery you find a lot of comedy. Especially in the north it
:20:05. > :20:11.is overcast and it rains a lot. The only options you've got is to have a
:20:12. > :20:16.laugh. Laughter is free. Having spent quite a loft my life in the
:20:17. > :20:19.north and having had northern grandparents and pafrnts, it is to
:20:20. > :20:23.do with understatement and overstatement, in the south of
:20:24. > :20:27.England people are say it wasn't a great success, whereas in the north
:20:28. > :20:32.they go for it, they go for the misery and they exaggerate and they
:20:33. > :20:38.overstate rather than understate, which is very useful for comedy I
:20:39. > :20:48.grew up in a big household where you have lots of people round the dinner
:20:49. > :20:57.table, and seven children and Foster children as well, a lot of people
:20:58. > :21:04.there. Quiet intimacy and touchy-feeliness is not high on the
:21:05. > :21:10.agenda. Taking the kiss out of each other at volume is another way of
:21:11. > :21:14.saying, that is a northern lower middle class, which is quite
:21:15. > :21:25.definitive as well in its own way. Lower middle. How do you qualify for
:21:26. > :21:30.that precisely? My parents aspirants. My grandmother was a
:21:31. > :21:37.clean, my grandfather was a binman. Father was an engineer for IBM, we
:21:38. > :21:55.had a holiday every year and it was comfortable. Knowledge was something
:21:56. > :22:06.to be acquired and encouraged. There is certainly an awareness, certainly
:22:07. > :22:11.with me, about my, about intellect and wanting to acquire a greater
:22:12. > :22:14.intellect. There are lots of psychological theories about the
:22:15. > :22:19.effective position in the family. You mentioned the number of people
:22:20. > :22:25.at the table. So first of all it makes you competitive, it must do?
:22:26. > :22:32.Yes, it does. You have to top each other's line. It is a good baptism.
:22:33. > :22:42.I do remember saying look at me look at me, quite a lot 679 lot
:22:43. > :22:49.That is what I Z I didn't really read many books. I was a product of
:22:50. > :22:57.the TV generation of the 19 70s where I would consume television,
:22:58. > :23:01.before the days of VCRs and options, so you saw programmes, and didn t
:23:02. > :23:04.see it again for two years. It was appointment to view. It was crucial,
:23:05. > :23:10.you were rushing home to make sure you didn't miss that TV show. That
:23:11. > :23:20.really was how I got through my childhood really. I learnt to do
:23:21. > :23:24.impersonations and funny voices and I would stand in front of the Mirror
:23:25. > :23:31.and do them to myself and I would have a group of friends with an
:23:32. > :23:36.elitist sense of humour, I liked Monty Python, The Goons and some
:23:37. > :23:43.things I was too young for and I would lose myself in this comedy, it
:23:44. > :23:51.was important, because there were people who were being irrev rant
:23:52. > :23:57.about institution institutions and that was an option, that was OK The
:23:58. > :24:02.mickicry, that famously people who are good minimumics, they started
:24:03. > :24:07.off with being teachers. When I went to secondary school, my older
:24:08. > :24:11.brother, I was in the first year and he was in sixth form. He used to
:24:12. > :24:15.call me up to the common room and make me do impersonations of Jim
:24:16. > :24:24.Callaghan. Which shows you how long ago it was. He was briefly Prime
:24:25. > :24:31.Minister. Yes, he was, yes. Anyone over 50 will love that. Dame Judi
:24:32. > :24:37.Dench, she said that you are the best mimic she's ever met. Can you
:24:38. > :24:54.do her? I can't, I don't have enough oestrogen to do women. Apart from
:24:55. > :25:01.Pauline calf. I liked doing it in an unhumourous way, the real forensic
:25:02. > :25:05.detail. I quite liked doing that. It is like singers having perfect
:25:06. > :25:10.pitch. You can hear someone and you can pretty much reproduce it. I
:25:11. > :25:15.wouldn't look at the teachers and observe them. I would find a guy in
:25:16. > :25:27.the room and I would think, I would imagine how they talked and I could
:25:28. > :25:32.do it. I had a good ear. I found I was able to do that and at school I
:25:33. > :25:38.would take the assembly, some days the house mast master came in and
:25:39. > :25:44.telling me to do, to take the assembly as him. And I was
:25:45. > :25:49.12-years-old. I remember going round straightening the ties of boys who
:25:50. > :25:53.were 16, 17. Because he had given my licence to do it and I would do it
:25:54. > :25:58.in his voice. Was your ambition to be an actor or comedian, did you
:25:59. > :26:05.make a distinction? I just wanted to be on the telly. I didn't even know
:26:06. > :26:13.that. I went to drama school. I tried to read Stanislavski, but it
:26:14. > :26:16.bored me to tears and go on how much I loved the theatre. I didn't love
:26:17. > :26:26.the theatre and all those things I was supposed to say as an actor I
:26:27. > :26:32.just wanted to be able to do interesting things and make a living
:26:33. > :26:39.from it. And express myself in some way. You were turned down by five
:26:40. > :26:43.London drama schools, including RADA, so you were determined because
:26:44. > :26:49.that didn't put you off being turned down by five? No. Now I think, I
:26:50. > :26:53.feel sorry for myself. I remember going to central school of speech
:26:54. > :27:03.and drama, and seeing all these this is in the mid-80s, these men in
:27:04. > :27:07.big over coats, saying "my name is Sebastian, my father works for the
:27:08. > :27:11.BBC World service" and they had these public school voices and ever
:27:12. > :27:18.so confident and I use today think who are they, I am nothing like
:27:19. > :27:24.them. These girls with pig tails and said "what was your journey, what
:27:25. > :27:29.was it liefk, that is amazing" they had self-confidence, I got a recall
:27:30. > :27:33.here and didn't come up to scratch but I joined this theatre company
:27:34. > :27:39.that was set up by this guy who had come down from Oxford, Michael
:27:40. > :27:45.Mulligan, he was great, he helped me and gave me confidence and told me I
:27:46. > :27:50.was good at what I did. When you left drama school, it was your voice
:27:51. > :27:55.first of all that got you work, wasn't it? I was skipping off drama
:27:56. > :28:03.school to go and do voice overs on local radio and I had start today do
:28:04. > :28:11.stand-up comedy to get an equitiy card and I started to develop
:28:12. > :28:14.something resembling a routine. At the same time almost the same time
:28:15. > :28:20.someone asked me to appear on a talent show that Arthur sp smith
:28:21. > :28:26.hosted for London Weekend Television, regional, and I saw an
:28:27. > :28:33.advert in the stage, saying new voices wanted at Spitting Image I
:28:34. > :28:40.sent off a tape and John Lloyd, who was famous for Blackadder and Nine
:28:41. > :28:45.O'clock News, picked up my tape and I got a phone call before the mobile
:28:46. > :28:50.phones, it was a canteen public pay phone that would ring and people
:28:51. > :29:00.would shout out your name and someone said it was for me. That was
:29:01. > :29:05.great. Also, you sent a cassette, it was on a cassette. Neil Kinnock All
:29:06. > :29:10.the impersonations I used to do you can tell I stopped, because I can't
:29:11. > :29:16.do anyone who has been in the public eye in the last ten years, because I
:29:17. > :29:24.can't be bothered. I did a good Neil Kinnock. Amongst others, when I did
:29:25. > :29:29.take over from Chris Barry, I had to do his version, which was very
:29:30. > :29:33.caricature version, because (as Neil Kinnock), a lot of people don't know
:29:34. > :29:37.the way he used to speak was like that, great emphasis and
:29:38. > :29:43.occasionally he would sub-qualify the things he would say and go off
:29:44. > :30:03.on a tangent and a sub-tangent of that. It was very over the top. But
:30:04. > :30:14.that was one of the voices I put on the tape along with the usual Roger
:30:15. > :30:19.Moor and Sean Connery and Ken Clarke on Spitting Image and Norman Tebbit.
:30:20. > :30:25.It's breathing, it is where people breathe. Particularly politicians
:30:26. > :30:31.who are buying to buy time. Roy Hattersley, he was always run out of
:30:32. > :30:38.breath before the end of the sentence. (As Roy Roy Hattersley) he
:30:39. > :30:50.couldn't finish the sentence because he ran out of breath. Various people
:30:51. > :30:55.say Nick Clegg, and they are undo-able people. I look at David
:30:56. > :30:58.Cameron, to me he's just a slightly more right-wing version of Tony
:30:59. > :31:03.Blair. That is all really. The same nuance, they all do the same things,
:31:04. > :31:09.they have all been coached. They all do this, you are not allowed to wag
:31:10. > :31:14.your finger, they use their knuckle. I am not wagging my finer, I am
:31:15. > :31:18.using my knuckle. They both do that. They have had the creases ironed
:31:19. > :31:24.out. In the days of Thatcher, whatever you think about t it was
:31:25. > :31:32.very colourful. The perrier award, Steve Coogan in character with John
:31:33. > :31:36.Thompson, that was character and impersonation, stand-up kind of
:31:37. > :31:43.thing? It was entirely character work, because I was a bit of a spent
:31:44. > :31:46.force. The pivotal moment for me, I went to the Edinburgh Festival two
:31:47. > :31:52.years before with Frank Skinner as my support. Frank worked very hard
:31:53. > :31:59.and did his homework. I asked him to support me, we did a mini tour. I
:32:00. > :32:04.was complacent, doing my voices and all the reviews, because I was known
:32:05. > :32:09.for doing impersonations, all the reviews were awful about me and
:32:10. > :32:15.fantastic about him. He emerged smelling of rose roses. I was
:32:16. > :32:21.smelling of the other stuff. I wasn't very happy and I wasn't
:32:22. > :32:26.working very hard. It was limiting, funny voices was limiting and to me,
:32:27. > :32:30.even though I could do it, I never was really a fan. I used to look at
:32:31. > :32:35.people doing impersonations thinking there was something wrong with them.
:32:36. > :32:41.There's no substance. You don't go that is really impressive. It can
:32:42. > :32:48.make you laugh, but there's - it's not about anything, it is just
:32:49. > :32:52.impressive. A year later, the next year Frank won the perrier Award and
:32:53. > :32:58.I was in Greece doing some stand-up for a holiday rep by the side of a
:32:59. > :33:01.swimming pool, being chastised by blokes in trunks for swearing
:33:02. > :33:07.because they had kids around. I am sitting in my box room and a single
:33:08. > :33:13.bed over looking an air conditioning unit, Frank Skinner wins the Perrier
:33:14. > :33:19.Award. It was a low point for me. I thought I have to pull a rabbit out
:33:20. > :33:25.of a hat. So I started to do Paul Calf, this character I did, which
:33:26. > :33:29.was based on when I was at drama school all the aggressive
:33:30. > :33:34.non-student working class men in the pub opposite who resented paying
:33:35. > :33:41.taxes so we could prance around in tights. That was like an epiphany
:33:42. > :33:44.for me. If you take the truth and crank it up a few notches and
:33:45. > :33:51.reflect it back at people, they like it a lot. The laughter you get and
:33:52. > :33:56.also it was a way of saying things that you couldn't say as yourself,
:33:57. > :33:59.because they were wrong or politically unacceptable, but people
:34:00. > :34:03.would laugh at it in a different way, they would laugh at the
:34:04. > :34:09.ignorance. That was a revelation for me. I have a formula here, I can do
:34:10. > :34:15.this, develop characters who people will laugh at. The laugh you get
:34:16. > :34:18.from recognition of shining a little light on an aspect of life is from
:34:19. > :34:27.the gut. It is a different kind of laugh you get. It is much nor
:34:28. > :34:30.rewarding. On the hour, B C radio 419 92, another very significant
:34:31. > :34:35.moment because of Alan Partridge appearing on that. Do you remember
:34:36. > :34:46.the precise moment of conception? I think so. Armando Ianucci, who was
:34:47. > :34:51.producing the show, and brought all these people together, some of whom
:34:52. > :34:58.I knew already, Patrick Marber for example, I knew from the circuits.
:34:59. > :35:02.There were these various different sketches and things that he put
:35:03. > :35:09.together in the show and I remember being very excited that I was asked
:35:10. > :35:14.by Armando to join this rep trigroup. It was more Python-like in
:35:15. > :35:19.that it was adventurous and there weren't punch lines, but it was
:35:20. > :35:29.funny in a slightly abstract way and in an odd way that I couldn't quite
:35:30. > :35:45.path om but it excited me. Armando thought the detailed voices was good
:35:46. > :35:49.and thought I would be useful. It was a sketch about a sports
:35:50. > :35:54.presenter. I do a sports presenter's voice, I don't really like sport, I
:35:55. > :35:58.used to do a generic voice, all those people like David Coleman
:35:59. > :36:05.John Motson rolled into one. They sound the same to me. The defining
:36:06. > :36:10.thing, with a lot of them was the idea of, Alan's voice changed, he
:36:11. > :36:18.was just a voice, voicing a sketch, but it was like this (as Alan
:36:19. > :36:22.Partridge), it was very someone who keeps the notion of broadcasting and
:36:23. > :36:27.being confident with your delivery, whether you know what you are speak
:36:28. > :36:33.being or not, it seemed to me something to define sports
:36:34. > :36:37.commentators. In a Pumping away with those muscly legs inside those tight
:36:38. > :36:41.Lycra shorts which have become his trademark. I don't know what this
:36:42. > :36:48.man is playing at. There is no way, surely the judges must come down
:36:49. > :36:56.like a tonne of bricks, carry carrying bikes on top of a car is
:36:57. > :37:00.not sportsmanlike. Did you write about Partridge. When we did the
:37:01. > :37:06.talk show on the radio, which I have framed in my down stairs toilet a
:37:07. > :37:16.letter of complaint about why this man was allowed this own show from
:37:17. > :37:21.someone in Tunbridge Wells, infuriated. As the years have gone
:37:22. > :37:32.on, we have developed him, but he was at first early on he was just a
:37:33. > :37:41.fool, he's like Malvolio in Twelfth Night. In that he is delusional But
:37:42. > :37:45.a small amount of xaigs compassion that the audience feel. Tess a
:37:46. > :37:49.character to laugh at. As the years went by, because a lot of the ideas
:37:50. > :37:54.would come from me, I remember sometimes writing with Patrick and
:37:55. > :38:00.Armando, I would say something as myself and they would say "just have
:38:01. > :38:05.Alan say that" I would find that offensive. Then I would get
:38:06. > :38:11.defensive about it and feel more connected with him and say don't - I
:38:12. > :38:18.felt like it was bullying a fool, almost like pulling legs off an
:38:19. > :38:25.insect, it was too cruel in a way. I wanted to somehow dignify him in a
:38:26. > :38:28.way and we came close to that because some of the people Alan
:38:29. > :38:36.would interview would be pretentious. Who do you think you
:38:37. > :38:40.are? Unfortunately for you, I am the chief commissions editor of BBC
:38:41. > :38:49.television. Let's forget about all this. Do you want some cheese? No
:38:50. > :38:57.thank you. It's quite nice. Smells, do you want to smell it? No thank
:38:58. > :39:07.you. Smell my cheese! Smell my cheese. Norwich took Alan Partridge
:39:08. > :39:21.to its bosom, and Alan partage alpha papa. Why Norwich. I wanted to avoid
:39:22. > :39:29.cliche. We thought why does no-one talk about, what is ignored, what
:39:30. > :39:34.suits him topographically. Looking on the map it's neither north or
:39:35. > :39:39.south. It is of itself and it is slightly isolated. You don't pass
:39:40. > :39:51.through it to go anywhere else. Unless you go to Sheringham. You
:39:52. > :39:59.really need a good reason to go to Sheringham. We shot some Alan
:40:00. > :40:04.Partridge there. Its isolation was important. It is the most isolated
:40:05. > :40:09.city in England actually. It is right in the middle of, dot bang in
:40:10. > :40:18.the middle. All those things have made us think that is perfect for
:40:19. > :40:23.him. It has an otherness. Police! Identify yourself. Alan Partridge.
:40:24. > :40:29.Alan Partridge, you know who I am, I haven't been off the TV that long.
:40:30. > :40:35.Johnny Vagas has just written an extraordinary book in which he
:40:36. > :40:41.argueses that Johnny Vagas was a comic creation that took hostage
:40:42. > :40:48.Michael Pennington, the real name of him, and took him over. I assume you
:40:49. > :40:52.have never got like that with Partridge? I understand what Michael
:40:53. > :41:01.says about what happened to him I think that is quite a real thing and
:41:02. > :41:09.it is dangerous because especially if you are drinking too much and it
:41:10. > :41:15.can be destructive. But that is an extension of people wanting to
:41:16. > :41:20.people want approval, they revert to the way they are defined by the
:41:21. > :41:26.media. I was always think when you look at Oliver Reid, drinking
:41:27. > :41:32.himself to death, and thinking that he is defined as good old Oliver
:41:33. > :41:39.Reid, who likes a drink, we love him partly because he drinks, so there
:41:40. > :41:45.is that thing "I'll be that then", because that is what they want and
:41:46. > :41:51.that means people will approve of me and it's not good. It is not
:41:52. > :41:57.necessarily the truth. With Alan, it is a double-edged sword, in that I
:41:58. > :42:04.do like Alan, but I don't want to be defined by him. People in the street
:42:05. > :42:11.say Alan, I say my name's Steve They just look at me and say what's
:42:12. > :42:15.his problem. Tony Ferino was the one that got away with the character.
:42:16. > :42:32.There was that thing of that is what I do now, I do characters. I did
:42:33. > :42:37.this character that was mass onlying nis - misogynistic egotist, it was
:42:38. > :42:41.one of the things where the lesson was, when you become pre-occupied
:42:42. > :42:51.with your production values and don't concentrate or focus on the
:42:52. > :42:56.material, then - and also when you have done something that is so well
:42:57. > :43:04.received that you are competing against yourself. I recorded an
:43:05. > :43:09.album with Steve Brown and my A and R man was Simon Cowell, before he
:43:10. > :43:16.became famous, and I was really pleased with it. Artistically it was
:43:17. > :43:19.very good, and it was quite subtle but it was a bit schizophrenic,
:43:20. > :43:28.where do you place it, what do you do with it? No-one buys ironic
:43:29. > :43:34.music. They just don't. However well executed it might be. Significant
:43:35. > :43:41.film parole officer because that was a bigger thing, but that was moving
:43:42. > :43:48.towards straight roles. I wasn't happy with that at all. It was
:43:49. > :43:57.because it was, I accidentally made a children's film, with lots of kids
:43:58. > :44:08.liking it. I didn't have a great experience with that. When I was
:44:09. > :44:15.shooting that the director, he would say do one take for the producer.
:44:16. > :44:19.Which was a big take, basically do a big animated take and it struck me
:44:20. > :44:25.those were the things that were sticking together in the edita can't
:44:26. > :44:29.watch it now, because I watch my face, my over animated expressions
:44:30. > :44:35.and I want to strangle myself. I can't watch that. 24 Hour Party
:44:36. > :44:38.People was happier, two 2002 for two reasons. It started a strain of
:44:39. > :44:46.playing real people which you have done a number of times, in that case
:44:47. > :44:52.Mancunian music legend and working with Michael Winterbottom. Did you,
:44:53. > :45:00.was it immediately a sympathetic relationship? Michael saved me in a
:45:01. > :45:05.way. Because in terms of my career he saw beyond Alan Partridge, which
:45:06. > :45:12.a lot of people didn't. Certainly film directors didn't. He saw
:45:13. > :45:22.something else, which I am pleased about, because he helped. He stopped
:45:23. > :45:29.me, he stopped Alan becoming this albatross. All the films I have done
:45:30. > :45:34.with him always had some sort of quality that's made them appreciate
:45:35. > :45:38.appreciated in the art house cinema circuit and in America where I am
:45:39. > :45:42.not known really, that is one of the advantages of Alan Partridge not
:45:43. > :45:48.being successful in America, that there's no type casting problem
:45:49. > :45:52.there. In comedy, to do comedy well, broad comedy, even good broad
:45:53. > :45:58.comedy, where you have to have a laugh every 30 seconds, you have got
:45:59. > :46:03.to be forensic about it, your timing and the way you phrase it, it has to
:46:04. > :46:11.be really specific and it means you end up being quite controlling. With
:46:12. > :46:16.Michael, I learnt to throw that away and just not be entirely sure of
:46:17. > :46:21.what I was doing and not worry about not being funny. And somehow that
:46:22. > :46:28.helps you be funny in a more truthful and interesting way. 2
:46:29. > :46:36.Hour Party People was another epiphany. I have had two so far How
:46:37. > :46:42.many am I allowed! It really was and it was really a very, very happy
:46:43. > :46:47.experience, also not just of Tony Wilson who I knew and I was reliflg
:46:48. > :46:52.part of my teenage life -- reliving part of my teenage life, I was a bit
:46:53. > :46:58.part player in the real story, and when it became to making the film, I
:46:59. > :47:02.became the main character. Playing Tony. It was great for me, it was
:47:03. > :47:07.like reliving my youth over again, but having the starring role. On
:47:08. > :47:12.tonight's show I will be talking to Alice Cooper, he will be hanging a
:47:13. > :47:17.dwarf live on stage. But first, two minutes of the most important music
:47:18. > :47:24.since Elvis walked into the sun studios in Memphis, the Sex Pistols
:47:25. > :47:29.and anarchy in the UK. Michael winter bottom with
:47:30. > :47:35.cock-and-bull story and the Trip, in both which you play a version of
:47:36. > :47:40.yourself with Rob Brydon playing a version of himself, were you, did
:47:41. > :47:44.you have to be persuade persuaded by winter bottom. Rob and I didn't want
:47:45. > :47:48.to do it at all, we thought it was a terrible idea. Because I have seen
:47:49. > :47:53.lots of famous people play themselves in things like Curb your
:47:54. > :47:59.enthusiasm and various TV shows and it's become a slightly tired injoke,
:48:00. > :48:03.that notion of saying get a load of me playing myself, look how
:48:04. > :48:07.self-deprecating I am, aren't I cool. I didn't want it to be that.
:48:08. > :48:12.Or I am playing a nasty person, which shows what I nice person I am?
:48:13. > :48:17.Look how self-critical I am being. I really didn't want to do that. I say
:48:18. > :48:22.to Michael we don't want to do T he kept pressurising us. He said
:48:23. > :48:33.there's not going to be a script. We said it's going to be waffle.
:48:34. > :48:38.Self-indull gent waffle, too. He said we will frictionalise it,
:48:39. > :48:43.actors playing your girlfriend and we will distance it and explore
:48:44. > :48:50.things. He said it will resonate beyond it being about you, it should
:48:51. > :48:54.resonate with people for other reasons, should be about bigger
:48:55. > :48:59.things than yourselves. Rob and I said OK, we will do t we will give
:49:00. > :49:03.it a go. One of the things they respond to is the sense that it was
:49:04. > :49:10.a real needle between you and Rob brie dovenlt there is a moment in
:49:11. > :49:14.Cock and Bull story where he says people only want him as Alan
:49:15. > :49:20.Partridge and he wants to do other stuff. It appears to get really
:49:21. > :49:25.nasty at times. Yes, the thing is Rob and I, when we did the trip we
:49:26. > :49:31.agreed that we would be allowed to push each other's buttons and
:49:32. > :49:40.wouldn't take it personally. It did get close to the bone sometimes But
:49:41. > :49:43.it was - but I knew that if it's uncomfortable it will be
:49:44. > :49:50.interesting. It was all gentle ribbing it would be dull and boring,
:49:51. > :50:00.so it had to be a bit spiky. That is OK. It's good to make yourself feel
:50:01. > :50:04.uncomfortable like that and to be needled. There is some sort of
:50:05. > :50:10.truthfulness that comes out of it. I would be at your funeral. Now from
:50:11. > :50:15.one of Rob's very closest friends, you will know him of course as TV's
:50:16. > :50:21.Alan Partridge and he has asked specifically to come up and take 25,
:50:22. > :50:30.30 minutes to talk about his friend Rob. Ladies and gentlemen Steve
:50:31. > :50:34.Coogan. You may also know Steve from his good art house films which have
:50:35. > :50:40.been reviewed by some of the broad sheet newspapers. Steve Coogan. Are
:50:41. > :50:45.you allowed to say to Michael Winterbottom don't use that. Yes, we
:50:46. > :50:55.did say that. Rob would say to me say something and I would go, I
:50:56. > :51:05.shook my head. What kind of things? When he started to just rehash the
:51:06. > :51:12.old tabloid stuff, some of which is true, and some of which is
:51:13. > :51:21.exaggerated. Courtney Love, he would do that on the Trip? No, he wouldn't
:51:22. > :51:29.do that. That's... That's something I am not going to go into. That
:51:30. > :51:38.would be like opening up Pandora's worms, to mix my metaphors. The one
:51:39. > :51:45.I personally feel didn't get the attention it deserved was Saxondale,
:51:46. > :51:51.less attention than it should. That was Partridge related. Yes it was, I
:51:52. > :51:57.am proud of that. It will stand the test of time. 13 episodes of it
:51:58. > :52:01.Interestingly in America, I have been doing publicity for Philomena,
:52:02. > :52:07.lots of people, it had a cult following there, lots of people came
:52:08. > :52:13.up to me and said how much they loved Saxondale. It is a more
:52:14. > :52:18.rounded, rounded character, because he is both the butt of the joke and
:52:19. > :52:22.sometimes he himself is genuinely funny and witty. That's what I love
:52:23. > :52:30.about him. Sometimes you go he's spot on there, he is very perceptive
:52:31. > :52:46.and also vain and delusional. Partridge is entirely vain and
:52:47. > :52:59.delusional. Pest control, name me some pests. Rats. Mice. Yes. How
:53:00. > :53:05.about Ganghi. Shocked you, Gandy was a pest. A pest to the establishment.
:53:06. > :53:10.We did Ganghi last term. What did they tell you about Ganghi? He
:53:11. > :53:17.gained independence for India through non-violent protest. That's
:53:18. > :53:21.an answer. I was trying to articulate that baby boomer
:53:22. > :53:31.counter-culture generation that came out of the 19 60s, that feels, this
:53:32. > :53:34.sounds terribly pretentious, but it is important for it to be funny and
:53:35. > :53:39.about something, those people who didn't know who to react to or who
:53:40. > :53:43.to fight against when Tony Blair walked into Downing Street with an
:53:44. > :53:47.electric guitar and he's younger than them, then they don't know
:53:48. > :53:51.where their place in the universe is, this culture of being
:53:52. > :53:58.oppositional or outside the establishment. And use rock'n'roll
:53:59. > :54:05.as their met for for that. Feel a bit at sea, a bit lost because Tony
:54:06. > :54:13.Blair has an electric guitar, who do you fight against. I had a lot of
:54:14. > :54:18.compassion for that. The factest self-delusional, that is interesting
:54:19. > :54:25.about British comedy, it is hard to think of a comedy character who
:54:26. > :54:36.isn't self-delusional. Captain Mainwaring, Basil fall at this. We
:54:37. > :54:40.all are in certain ways. It is a British thing, too. Laughing at our
:54:41. > :54:48.inadequacies and being liberated by that. It is one of the wonder things
:54:49. > :54:55.about this country, the ability to be self-deprecating. When I was in
:54:56. > :55:01.America, it is bizarre, the agents there, one of the places where
:55:02. > :55:07.aggressive is a compliment. ." I am a very aggressive agent". How very
:55:08. > :55:13.nice for you. They have this thing where there is no embarrassment at
:55:14. > :55:17.saying I am very good at this and I can do this and that and we think it
:55:18. > :55:22.is a bit weird. I went over there and tried to be self-deprecating
:55:23. > :55:28.about my involvement in some project and they said if you say it wasn't
:55:29. > :55:32.really you, they won't think you are being modest, they will think you
:55:33. > :55:41.didn't have anything to do with it. In terms of comedy I think that
:55:42. > :55:51.those people who are, who feel are badly done to, David Brent, Basil
:55:52. > :55:57.fall at this and Alan Partridge is sort of strange strangely what
:55:58. > :56:07.defines Britishness. Which I think is glorious actually and wonderful.
:56:08. > :56:23.Because it means that we - that you can - what was that thing about meet
:56:24. > :56:28.meeting disaster and triumph It is a coping mechanism for the country.
:56:29. > :56:33.When some of those British comic characters go to America, they say
:56:34. > :56:38.couldn't they be more self-confidence or more successful.
:56:39. > :56:43.Bizarre. You are writing your memoirs at the moment. You are going
:56:44. > :56:49.to? Yes, yes. Which is a sort of self-therapy, but is it something
:56:50. > :56:55.you look forward to? Only up until I became a public figure or started to
:56:56. > :57:06.do break through in terms of my career. As I get older I look back
:57:07. > :57:10.more and more, you get more and more perspective on your childhood, on
:57:11. > :57:14.the things that made you and a part of me wants to write it down before
:57:15. > :57:19.it recedes so far into the past that I forget it. Or it becomes just
:57:20. > :57:24.almost abstract. I feel connected with it. It is to do with middle
:57:25. > :57:30.age. Already as you well know, some people have said, he's campaigning
:57:31. > :57:39.for privacy and writing his memoirs. Your sane you are allowed. It is my
:57:40. > :57:44.prerogative. If I want to talk to a stranger about my private life, that
:57:45. > :57:56.is my choice. Do you have a title? No. I have fantasy titles. Give us a
:57:57. > :58:01.fantasy titles. It is more fun thinking of the titles you shouldn't
:58:02. > :58:08.use. I talking to someone about the fact that Leonard Nimoy's instalment
:58:09. > :58:20.was called "-I am not possibling" and the second one was called " I am
:58:21. > :58:33.possibling". -- Spoca. Steve Coogan, thank you very much.