0:00:24 > 0:00:28'The ultimate achievement for a broadcaster is to be
0:00:28 > 0:00:32'in equal demand on both sides of the microphone, as host and guest.'
0:00:33 > 0:00:36Since the 1960s, when he left Ireland to do
0:00:36 > 0:00:38his first radio shows for the BBC,
0:00:38 > 0:00:43Sir Terry Wogan has been one of the most recognisable voices and faces in Britain.
0:00:43 > 0:00:47Presenting the Radio 2 Breakfast Show for 28 years in two spells
0:00:47 > 0:00:52divided by a full-time TV career that included Blankety Blank
0:00:52 > 0:00:56and the thrice-weekly Wogan chat show on BBC One.
0:00:56 > 0:01:00His radio work in particular set new standards of fluency,
0:01:00 > 0:01:05verbal inventiveness and, long before social networking technology,
0:01:05 > 0:01:07interaction with the audience.
0:01:08 > 0:01:11The two autobiographies which I've read, a frequent theme is that
0:01:11 > 0:01:16you are incredibly lazy, always took the path of least resistance
0:01:16 > 0:01:20and yet this always amazes people, because for long periods
0:01:20 > 0:01:27you were on radio and TV simultaneously, continuously, constantly.
0:01:27 > 0:01:31My conclusion is that you disguise the drive and ambition
0:01:31 > 0:01:33beneath this affable demeanour.
0:01:35 > 0:01:39That probably credits me with a bit more intelligence than I have,
0:01:39 > 0:01:46to be honest, Mark. Yeah, maybe. Years ago, I went back to Ireland
0:01:46 > 0:01:50and was talking to a friend with whom I'd worked in the bank and he said,
0:01:50 > 0:01:55"People are always saying to me that you must have had
0:01:55 > 0:01:59"some kind of determination, but I never saw it."
0:01:59 > 0:02:02And he was right. I don't really have enormous drive.
0:02:02 > 0:02:05I've never knocked on anybody's door and asked them for a job.
0:02:05 > 0:02:10What I've had is a kind of blessed life, if you like.
0:02:10 > 0:02:12I've been enormously lucky.
0:02:12 > 0:02:15Doors have opened for me without my knocking on them.
0:02:15 > 0:02:17But you haven't been cautious though, because looking at
0:02:17 > 0:02:21periods in your life, there was a time when you were broadcasting
0:02:21 > 0:02:23in both Ireland and London, commuting.
0:02:23 > 0:02:27The Wogan chat show, it's three nights a week, first person,
0:02:27 > 0:02:29these are not the decisions of a cautious person.
0:02:29 > 0:02:31There is some drive there.
0:02:31 > 0:02:34Yeah, whether it can be identified as drive...
0:02:34 > 0:02:37I'm not cautious about my career.
0:02:37 > 0:02:41I'm cautious about my family, I'm cautious about my life,
0:02:41 > 0:02:44but I've always taken risks in my career.
0:02:44 > 0:02:49I often say to Helen, my wife, that if I were older, or if it was now,
0:02:49 > 0:02:53I probably wouldn't have taken the chance of leaving Ireland,
0:02:53 > 0:02:58where I had a reasonable career and making a bit of money,
0:02:58 > 0:03:01to come across to Britain and work for the BBC
0:03:01 > 0:03:04for less money than I was making in Ireland.
0:03:04 > 0:03:08When I came here to work first for BBC on daily radio,
0:03:08 > 0:03:13it was £135 a week, that was for a daily radio show.
0:03:13 > 0:03:16It's a far cry!
0:03:16 > 0:03:20So I used to go back every second weekend and do some commercial
0:03:20 > 0:03:24radio programmes in Ireland to keep me income boosting,
0:03:24 > 0:03:28and for a while when I was actually working on Late Night Extra
0:03:28 > 0:03:31for Radio 1, I'd be living in Ireland,
0:03:31 > 0:03:35I was the most travelled DJ in the world.
0:03:35 > 0:03:41I used to fly back and forth from Ireland to London once, twice a week,
0:03:41 > 0:03:45even during the foot and mouth outbreak, in which case
0:03:45 > 0:03:48I used to have to walk through fine sprays of disinfectant
0:03:48 > 0:03:51to get back to Ireland.
0:03:51 > 0:03:54I've always been struck from the outside and knew there is
0:03:54 > 0:03:57a basic stubbornness and a determination to show people,
0:03:57 > 0:04:01because my theory is one reason, when you came back to Radio 2,
0:04:01 > 0:04:05it did become the huge success it became is that you were determined to show people,
0:04:05 > 0:04:09because a lot of people wrote you off after the Wogan TV show.
0:04:09 > 0:04:12Similarly, when the BBC cancelled your TV contract,
0:04:12 > 0:04:13you turned up on Channel 4.
0:04:13 > 0:04:17There is something in you that wants to show them, isn't there?
0:04:17 > 0:04:20There is something in me, not necessarily...
0:04:20 > 0:04:22I have enough confidence.
0:04:22 > 0:04:27I don't really feel the need to show anybody anything,
0:04:27 > 0:04:32but I'm not going to be defeated. I don't recognise failure,
0:04:32 > 0:04:38or I bypass it, if you like. I don't dwell on it, I get on with it.
0:04:38 > 0:04:41You once said something to me when I was a young broadcaster,
0:04:41 > 0:04:45I met you at one of those so-called BBC talent events in Wimbledon.
0:04:45 > 0:04:48And you said something which I've always thought,
0:04:48 > 0:04:52and as time has gone on is one of the wisest things I ever heard about broadcasting,
0:04:52 > 0:04:55you said television is about novelty
0:04:55 > 0:04:59and radio is about familiarity and repetition.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03For that reason it is easier to have a longer career in radio
0:05:03 > 0:05:06than TV, but that is borne out.
0:05:06 > 0:05:12Absolutely true. I mean, I said something that is absolutely true.
0:05:12 > 0:05:14It is not entirely my fault.
0:05:14 > 0:05:20But, yeah, I love radio because I can impose my own pausing on it,
0:05:20 > 0:05:23I can impose my own timing on it,
0:05:23 > 0:05:28and because people think while they're listening to the radio.
0:05:28 > 0:05:30Television is used thought -
0:05:30 > 0:05:34your thinking is done for you, your imagination is done for you
0:05:34 > 0:05:40and you can't really pause too much, otherwise the director will take
0:05:40 > 0:05:44the camera off you thinking you've had a heart attack.
0:05:44 > 0:05:46So you don't have the same degree of freedom.
0:05:46 > 0:05:49It was always a sort of forlorn hope of mine
0:05:49 > 0:05:56that I could somehow transcend the picture,
0:05:56 > 0:06:01get into people's minds, heads, in the same way, on television,
0:06:01 > 0:06:03in the same way that I could on radio,
0:06:03 > 0:06:06but I don't think it's possible.
0:06:06 > 0:06:08I was thinking about this, I think this is why
0:06:08 > 0:06:12the Eurovision Song Contest became such a big thing for you.
0:06:12 > 0:06:16It was a curious hybrid that, it was as if you were doing a radio show on television.
0:06:16 > 0:06:20Very occasionally we'd get a shot of you in the box
0:06:20 > 0:06:24with your headphones on, but essentially you were
0:06:24 > 0:06:28the disembodied voice but anchoring a TV show, which is very unusual.
0:06:28 > 0:06:29Yeah and I think that's why it worked
0:06:29 > 0:06:31because it did not have my face all over it.
0:06:31 > 0:06:35# ..Reggae OK
0:06:35 > 0:06:36# OK
0:06:36 > 0:06:39# Ahhh, ahhh, ahhh
0:06:39 > 0:06:40# OK. #
0:06:41 > 0:06:43CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:06:46 > 0:06:50Well, you can't say you're not getting a variety of costume here.
0:06:50 > 0:06:53Good to see the old accordion coming into reggae music, isn't it?
0:06:53 > 0:06:57That's for Finland. Reggae O.K.
0:06:58 > 0:07:01A couple of years ago, when Graham took over,
0:07:01 > 0:07:05it was the first time in 35 years that Helen and I were able to sit
0:07:05 > 0:07:09together and watch the Eurovision Song Contest.
0:07:09 > 0:07:12Slightly unnerving experience.
0:07:12 > 0:07:15I hadn't realised exactly how bad it was
0:07:15 > 0:07:16because when you're there,
0:07:16 > 0:07:19you're taken up in the whole excitement of it.
0:07:19 > 0:07:22Although, again you were a pioneer in this respect.
0:07:22 > 0:07:24There is lots of talk about ironic broadcasting
0:07:24 > 0:07:27and so much of it goes on that actually Blankety Blank
0:07:27 > 0:07:31and the Eurovision Song Contest were examples of ironic broadcasting,
0:07:31 > 0:07:35that you were sending it up even while being part of it.
0:07:35 > 0:07:36That's right.
0:07:36 > 0:07:40As you know, the Europeans don't understand irony
0:07:40 > 0:07:43any more than Americans do. They don't get it.
0:07:43 > 0:07:47Some of the European countries would get really quite angry about your attitude, wouldn't they?
0:07:47 > 0:07:51Yes, they thought we weren't, or that the British,
0:07:51 > 0:07:55were not giving sufficient respect to this major, and it is a major show.
0:07:55 > 0:07:57It's extraordinary!
0:07:57 > 0:08:02Three and a half hours of perfect television, brilliantly staged.
0:08:02 > 0:08:05We perhaps don't give them enough credit for that,
0:08:05 > 0:08:07but what I did find was that
0:08:07 > 0:08:11I became very unpopular in Denmark a few years ago
0:08:11 > 0:08:15because the two presenters on Danish television,
0:08:15 > 0:08:18staging the Eurovision,
0:08:18 > 0:08:22did every introduction as a rhyming couplet,
0:08:22 > 0:08:25which, frankly, I thought was a mistake.
0:08:25 > 0:08:28Let's go on with the show.
0:08:28 > 0:08:30- Let's start the music. - Let's start the fun.
0:08:30 > 0:08:34BOTH: The Eurovision Song Contest 2001.
0:08:34 > 0:08:37Not before time.
0:08:37 > 0:08:42I nicknamed them Dr Death and the Tooth Fairy
0:08:42 > 0:08:46and so really, if I go through Copenhagen nowadays
0:08:46 > 0:08:50I have to go with a paper bag over my head.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53But, yes, whenever I used to go to various places in Europe,
0:08:53 > 0:08:59they would all say, "If you don't like the Eurovision Song Contest, why do you do it?"
0:08:59 > 0:09:04As you say, they miss irony, sarcasm, different sense of humour.
0:09:04 > 0:09:06They'd cheer anything here.
0:09:06 > 0:09:1138,000 people here, half of whom can't see anything.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14And I'm in that majority.
0:09:14 > 0:09:17I'm watching it on a television like the rest of you.
0:09:17 > 0:09:20We need to talk about Ireland. The first thing is the language,
0:09:20 > 0:09:24which has been a large part of your career.
0:09:24 > 0:09:27People use that shorthand blarney and this comes out
0:09:27 > 0:09:30in your autobiographies, there is something about speech in Ireland.
0:09:30 > 0:09:35It is very colourful, it is self-mocking, mocking others
0:09:35 > 0:09:40and yet you can get away with a lot as an Irish person,
0:09:40 > 0:09:43because the overall tone is friendly.
0:09:43 > 0:09:48Yes, the Irish have that piquant...mixture
0:09:48 > 0:09:53of cynicism and sentimentality.
0:09:53 > 0:09:57But the language comes because we're taught two languages,
0:09:57 > 0:10:03because Gaelic which you had to speak, or at least learn, when I went to school,
0:10:03 > 0:10:06is full of flowery expressions
0:10:06 > 0:10:11and that has seeped into the Irish use of English,
0:10:11 > 0:10:14which is why I suppose we get so many wonderful writers and poets.
0:10:14 > 0:10:17But you have that double thing growing up in Ireland
0:10:17 > 0:10:20that there was the literature Flann O'Brien that everyone loved and read,
0:10:20 > 0:10:24then there was this other literature that was dangerous and banned,
0:10:24 > 0:10:27James Joyce in particular, because the Catholic Church had
0:10:27 > 0:10:30a huge list of the Index Librorum Prohibitorum,
0:10:30 > 0:10:33- all these books that were banned. - Exactly.
0:10:33 > 0:10:37I went to the same school as James Joyce, the Belvedere in Dublin,
0:10:37 > 0:10:44and almost directly opposite in Great Denmark Street was where the family used to live,
0:10:44 > 0:10:49but nobody in Belvedere ever spoke of James Joyce.
0:10:49 > 0:10:51There was one priest who used to say,
0:10:51 > 0:10:54"He's a wonderful writer, you should read him if you can."
0:10:54 > 0:11:00But, of course, he fell foul of the Index as so many.
0:11:00 > 0:11:04It was extraordinary but it was indicative of the kind of power that the Roman Catholic Church
0:11:04 > 0:11:09had in Ireland and that has since largely dissipated.
0:11:09 > 0:11:13You say in the autobiographies that the only comparison
0:11:13 > 0:11:16for the power that the Catholic Church had in Ireland
0:11:16 > 0:11:18when you were growing up there was the Ayatollahs.
0:11:18 > 0:11:20Absolutely.
0:11:20 > 0:11:25Absolutely, and that was true, has been true right up to the '80s.
0:11:25 > 0:11:29Ireland was in thrall to the Roman Catholic Church.
0:11:29 > 0:11:32The government, because it had no money,
0:11:32 > 0:11:37abrogated its responsibility in education, so it left education
0:11:37 > 0:11:41at the common level to the Christian Brothers
0:11:41 > 0:11:45and the middle-class level to the various orders like the Jesuits,
0:11:45 > 0:11:49Holy Ghost Fathers, Dominicans, Redemptorists.
0:11:49 > 0:11:51You have spoken and written about beatings,
0:11:51 > 0:11:53it was quite a savage environment.
0:11:53 > 0:11:54It wasn't that savage.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57It was savage if you were educated by the Christian Brothers,
0:11:57 > 0:12:01but you were protected slightly by a middle-class upbringing.
0:12:01 > 0:12:07The Jesuits didn't beat you insensible or give you a thump around the ear with a fist.
0:12:07 > 0:12:13They had a more sophisticated way of doing it.
0:12:13 > 0:12:18You go home, do your homework, make a mistake in your Latin homework,
0:12:18 > 0:12:22priest would say, "OK," and then give you a little chit
0:12:22 > 0:12:26which said, "Six biffs,"
0:12:26 > 0:12:31for doing wrong in your homework. It's tough, come on.
0:12:31 > 0:12:34And you had to wait, this would be the first lesson in the morning
0:12:34 > 0:12:38and you would have to wait until lunchtime before you had to line up,
0:12:38 > 0:12:43anticipating all morning, before you had to line up with your little chit
0:12:43 > 0:12:49and then you put your hand out and got six leathers.
0:12:49 > 0:12:52But then in one of the books, you talk about going home with your hand swollen.
0:12:52 > 0:12:56Exactly, on your little bicycle.
0:12:56 > 0:12:59It wasn't a boarding school, it was a day school,
0:12:59 > 0:13:02so I used to cycle home for my lunch.
0:13:02 > 0:13:07But, you know, I suppose it is only in retrospect that
0:13:07 > 0:13:13I think that that was in any way damaging, because it wasn't.
0:13:13 > 0:13:18It was what you expected, it was what school was about.
0:13:18 > 0:13:23It made you work harder, it made you work harder at your Latin.
0:13:23 > 0:13:27In fact, I got fantastic marks in my Latin in the intermediate exams
0:13:27 > 0:13:31and then when I went up to Dublin and things were a little gentler,
0:13:31 > 0:13:34I didn't really achieve anything like it.
0:13:34 > 0:13:37But at a religious level, the Jesuits failed with you
0:13:37 > 0:13:41because you were an agnostic or an atheist by quite a young age.
0:13:41 > 0:13:47I can never really distinguish between the two.
0:13:47 > 0:13:52I'm not against all knowledge, so I'm not agnostic
0:13:52 > 0:14:00but I have difficulty with the idea of an almighty God keeping his eye on me.
0:14:00 > 0:14:05It came... I suppose the watershed for me came
0:14:05 > 0:14:11when I was in Belvedere in Dublin and we finished, did all our exams,
0:14:11 > 0:14:18and then we went on a retreat outside Dublin, to a farm or something, to a Jesuit retreat
0:14:18 > 0:14:22and a priest got up on the first night and he said,
0:14:22 > 0:14:27"Remember, boys, it's almost impossible to commit immortal sin."
0:14:27 > 0:14:32And I thought, "Why didn't somebody tell me this five years ago?!"
0:14:32 > 0:14:34As far as I'm concerned,
0:14:34 > 0:14:37I've been committing mortal sins every ten minutes.
0:14:37 > 0:14:40You were brought up with this idea of sin.
0:14:40 > 0:14:42Sin was never very far in the corner
0:14:42 > 0:14:46and the main sins, of course, were sex and vanity.
0:14:46 > 0:14:49Vanity was a big sin.
0:14:49 > 0:14:53How any of us in Ireland grew up with self-esteem, I'll never know.
0:14:53 > 0:14:57One of the legends of Catholicism, particularly Irish Catholicism, is they say,
0:14:57 > 0:15:00"He'll come back to it, he'll call for the priest at the end."
0:15:00 > 0:15:03Yes. Yes they do say that.
0:15:03 > 0:15:09And maybe I will because, you know, let's keep all the exits open.
0:15:09 > 0:15:10HE LAUGHS
0:15:10 > 0:15:16I don't... Maybe it's arrogance but when you think that St Augstine
0:15:16 > 0:15:23the great saints, the fathers of the Church, highly intelligent men, all believed in God,
0:15:23 > 0:15:31erm, it would be... It's arrogant for somebody like me of my limited intelligence
0:15:31 > 0:15:32to just think that I don't.
0:15:32 > 0:15:35But I have a difficulty in accepting it.
0:15:35 > 0:15:38I don't have what they call the gift of faith.
0:15:38 > 0:15:42I was amazed one of the first times I went to Ireland, I watched the Gay Byrne Show,
0:15:42 > 0:15:44who was, in a way, the Irish Terry Wogan.
0:15:44 > 0:15:46He's the one that stayed and did those chat shows.
0:15:46 > 0:15:52There would be priests and cardinals in the front row on his TV show.
0:15:52 > 0:15:55If you had stayed, you couldn't have been the broadcaster you've been.
0:15:55 > 0:16:03He did an immense amount of good. He broke a lot of moulds, which wasn't easy.
0:16:03 > 0:16:11Indeed because there was no forum for opinion in Ireland, actually, television and radio
0:16:11 > 0:16:18over the years, created a kind of forum where opinions that people had been afraid to express,
0:16:18 > 0:16:21suddenly were being expressed.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24But as far as working in Ireland,
0:16:24 > 0:16:28I worked in Ireland for eight years on radio and television
0:16:28 > 0:16:29and successfully.
0:16:29 > 0:16:34But I suppose I was a bit of a West Brit.
0:16:34 > 0:16:39When I was growing up in Limerick, I didn't listen to Irish radio, I used to listen to the live programme.
0:16:39 > 0:16:41The Goon Show, Take It From Here, all those things.
0:16:41 > 0:16:48Most of my reading material, which my Auntie May used to send me every week,
0:16:48 > 0:16:55was Just William, Billy Bunter, moving up that English thing.
0:16:55 > 0:17:03So I suppose, in a way, I had more in common with British radio and television
0:17:03 > 0:17:04than I had with Irish.
0:17:04 > 0:17:10Your Auntie May, she was another great contributor to the language that you used as a broadcaster.
0:17:10 > 0:17:16- She was sending you those books. She gave you an education.- She did. She gave me another world.
0:17:16 > 0:17:19She would send me a couple of books every couple of weeks.
0:17:19 > 0:17:25She was the manager of a bookshop in Dublin. She was my godmother. It was a Catholic bookshop
0:17:25 > 0:17:28so I didn't get any racy stuff.
0:17:28 > 0:17:29HE LAUGHS
0:17:29 > 0:17:32But there are always in life these pieces of luck
0:17:32 > 0:17:35and that was one of the pieces of luck that you had an auntie
0:17:35 > 0:17:40- who not only run a bookshop but wanted to send you the stuff. - That's right. Yeah.
0:17:40 > 0:17:45But luck has played enormous in my life and anybody who is successful,
0:17:45 > 0:17:51and who denies that they were lucky to get where they are,
0:17:51 > 0:17:53is a fool, in my opinion.
0:17:53 > 0:17:58because it plays a disproportionate role in all our lives.
0:17:58 > 0:18:00Parents - Rose and Michael Wogan.
0:18:00 > 0:18:04Your father - this is a good parable.
0:18:04 > 0:18:11A very hard worker, he was eventually rewarded for his hard work and diligence.
0:18:11 > 0:18:15He had an enormous capacity for hard work.
0:18:15 > 0:18:20He would come home from running the grocery store in Limerick
0:18:20 > 0:18:26He would spend most of the evening doing his books. He was meticulous. His handwriting was meticulous.
0:18:26 > 0:18:33He took pains and he was a fisherman. He took more joy out of preparing to fish,
0:18:33 > 0:18:39tying flies for the fly-fishing, than he did in actual fishing.
0:18:39 > 0:18:45I would sit with him in a field, listening to the corncrake, eating my sandwiches,
0:18:45 > 0:18:51and he'd still be tying the flies and just as the sun was beginning to dip behind the hedge,
0:18:51 > 0:18:54he'd decide he was going to fish!
0:18:54 > 0:18:56That put me off fishing for life, really.
0:18:56 > 0:19:02And, erm... Obviously, although I loved him,
0:19:02 > 0:19:08It made me the kind of person I am because I am impatient.
0:19:08 > 0:19:11I like to do things immediately, possibly too quickly.
0:19:11 > 0:19:18My whole broadcasting career is about opening the microphone without a thought in your head
0:19:18 > 0:19:20and just risking it.
0:19:22 > 0:19:26You say in one of the books that if he'd been an accountant, you might have become an accountant,
0:19:26 > 0:19:30but because he wasn't a professional, he did a variety of things and eventually
0:19:30 > 0:19:33he was successful in trade.
0:19:33 > 0:19:41It was lucky for me. Certainly in Belvedere College in Dublin, most of the people,
0:19:41 > 0:19:47most of my peers, were the sons of doctors, accountants,
0:19:47 > 0:19:51executives, quantity surveyors, architects,
0:19:51 > 0:19:54and they all became architects.
0:19:54 > 0:20:00I went back to a reunion a couple of years ago and they were, in fact,
0:20:00 > 0:20:06all accountants, architects, quantity surveyors doctors and surgeons.
0:20:06 > 0:20:10My father would have liked me to be a doctor but I'm lazy.
0:20:10 > 0:20:12I did seven years of actual study and work. No!
0:20:12 > 0:20:18So I went to work in a bank, the Royal Bank Of Ireland,
0:20:18 > 0:20:22which was a small bank,
0:20:22 > 0:20:24largely a Protestant bank.
0:20:24 > 0:20:28I worked in the bank for four years, happily.
0:20:28 > 0:20:33Good people. Nice people, being paid nothing.
0:20:33 > 0:20:40Erm... I do tell a story that when I worked at the bank, twice a week
0:20:40 > 0:20:48I would have to carry £5,000 in used notes on the back of the number 19 bus
0:20:48 > 0:20:54down to head office, where they would be switched for new notes,
0:20:54 > 0:20:59another £5,000, which I would then take back on the back of the bus again, back to the branch!
0:20:59 > 0:21:05How we were never knocked over I will never know because sometimes
0:21:05 > 0:21:10I'd think, "Let's go to the port." I'd say, "Let's go for a walk."
0:21:10 > 0:21:12We'd have the new notes in the bag
0:21:12 > 0:21:17and we'd stop off at Bewley's Oriental Cafe and pop in there, put it under the table
0:21:17 > 0:21:20and have a cup of coffee!
0:21:20 > 0:21:22Extraordinary!
0:21:22 > 0:21:26The impressive benefit of your upbringing, you were never tempted to take a few of the fivers?
0:21:26 > 0:21:32No and there was very little pilfering went on,
0:21:32 > 0:21:39although there was a fella who came in to do an inspection, a senior man,
0:21:39 > 0:21:42who DID run off with the money!
0:21:42 > 0:21:47To everybody's astonishment because that wasn't the way. That wasn't the way we were brought up.
0:21:47 > 0:21:53We were honest, diligent, er, middle class people
0:21:53 > 0:21:54who didn't boast.
0:21:54 > 0:21:58And didn't have much sex.
0:21:58 > 0:22:02The move to broadcasting came via amateur dramatics.
0:22:02 > 0:22:05I did a bit of that. Nearly everybody in Ireland did am dram.
0:22:05 > 0:22:10I joined the Rathmines And Rathgar Musical And Dramatical Society
0:22:10 > 0:22:13and we used to sing on the stage of the Gaiety Theatre
0:22:13 > 0:22:17where subsequently I went to do a Eurovision Song Contest once.
0:22:17 > 0:22:20So that was the outlet for whatever creative spirit you had
0:22:20 > 0:22:23or showing off.
0:22:23 > 0:22:25You were allowed to show off on stage.
0:22:25 > 0:22:32But that wasn't it. I just picked up the Irish Independent newspaper one day
0:22:32 > 0:22:39and there was an ad and it said, "Raidio Eireann seeks announcer/newsreader
0:22:39 > 0:22:41"continuity announcers/newsreaders.
0:22:41 > 0:22:48"The requirements are, English, Irish, a familiarity with continental languages"
0:22:48 > 0:22:53And I wrote off, for some reason that still escapes me,
0:22:53 > 0:22:59filled out a form because, you know, half of the country was out of work.
0:22:59 > 0:23:07So I would fill out this form with about 10,000 briefless barristers, out of work people,
0:23:07 > 0:23:12and extraordinarily enough, with the little qualifications I had,
0:23:12 > 0:23:19was called for an audition, did the audition because I'm a bit of a mimic, faked the Italian,
0:23:19 > 0:23:22the German, the French, got by on the Irish and the English
0:23:22 > 0:23:26and I was called for a training course!
0:23:26 > 0:23:30So I'd work in a bank all day and then I'd go to
0:23:30 > 0:23:36Raidio Eireann, the GPO in Dublin and do a training course as an announcer
0:23:36 > 0:23:39and, blow me down, they offered me a job.
0:23:39 > 0:23:45- And that was the beginning.- That's another of these pieces of luck that the thing
0:23:45 > 0:23:50you'd been good at at school was languages so that was why you were able to answer that ad.
0:23:50 > 0:23:55Yeah. I still don't know why. because
0:23:55 > 0:24:00there would be fellas with PhDs applying for this job.
0:24:00 > 0:24:06This was a desirable job. You were something if you were a continuity announcer, a newsreader
0:24:06 > 0:24:08on Irish radio.
0:24:08 > 0:24:15It's amazing. I'm still astounded by the fact that I got called for an audition,
0:24:15 > 0:24:19and then got offered the job.
0:24:19 > 0:24:24Irish broadcasting, it was a good preparation for what was going to happen later, in that
0:24:24 > 0:24:29it's the famous thing that you are very very famous, at least at that stage,
0:24:29 > 0:24:32you were as a broadcaster in Ireland.
0:24:32 > 0:24:37So you were exposed to fame, judging beauty contests very early on.
0:24:37 > 0:24:44I was indeed. No sooner had I joined Irish radio, Irish television started, round about 1961.
0:24:44 > 0:24:49That was fantastic.
0:24:49 > 0:24:53They opened with an outside broadcast,
0:24:53 > 0:24:57which was a tremendously plucky thing to do.
0:24:57 > 0:25:00If one of the batteries had fused,
0:25:00 > 0:25:01that was the end of it.
0:25:01 > 0:25:04Irish television got by on a wing and a prayer because
0:25:04 > 0:25:11all sorts of people came across claiming to be directors, who, in fact, were roadsweepers,
0:25:11 > 0:25:14in Canada and Australia and places like that.
0:25:14 > 0:25:18It happened and Irish flair for doing things on their toes worked.
0:25:18 > 0:25:25When people say to me, "You must find Children In Need, seven hours of live television..."
0:25:25 > 0:25:30doing what I do, which is always live, making it up as I go along -
0:25:30 > 0:25:36"..you must find that very wearing and nerve-wracking!"
0:25:36 > 0:25:39You wanted to be with Irish television in the early days!
0:25:39 > 0:25:41Goodness sake!
0:25:41 > 0:25:45You did one of the most disastrous live programmes in history, which is a game show called Jackpot.
0:25:45 > 0:25:51I wouldn't put it that strongly! But it was a bit troublesome, yes.
0:25:51 > 0:25:55The very first one I did, nobody had really bothered to tell me
0:25:55 > 0:26:01what was going on and, of course, my nature was to say I'll do it anyway.
0:26:01 > 0:26:06Of course, a buzzer went and I hadn't realised that was the end of the show.
0:26:06 > 0:26:09The show was over before I knew it.
0:26:09 > 0:26:15There were other occasions where contestants had to delete or dip so they could delete
0:26:15 > 0:26:22their opponent's point or dip into a box in front of them and pull out a prize.
0:26:22 > 0:26:29So Mary says... I said, "Well done, Mary, do you want to delete or dip?"
0:26:29 > 0:26:33And she said, "I'll dip." "Fair enough," I said, "Go ahead."
0:26:33 > 0:26:36So she said, "There's nothing in here."
0:26:36 > 0:26:38THEY LAUGH
0:26:38 > 0:26:40"There's nothing in here."
0:26:40 > 0:26:46There were so many other occasions. Somebody had the bright idea of doing what was called the vertical plan,
0:26:46 > 0:26:49which meant that various presenters were in charge of an evening.
0:26:49 > 0:26:55I was in charge of Friday. One evening, I'm sitting down. I'm introducing
0:26:55 > 0:27:00this girl, who's perched prettily on a stool with a guitar.
0:27:00 > 0:27:03I said, "And now here she is with...
0:27:03 > 0:27:07HE SPEAKS SPANISH
0:27:07 > 0:27:09Joan...Vaughan or whatever her name was.
0:27:09 > 0:27:14This was followed by a crash because she'd fallen off the stool.
0:27:14 > 0:27:16with the guitar.
0:27:16 > 0:27:23There are few things more frightening than when that happens and a floor manager goes
0:27:23 > 0:27:25in front of you and goes...
0:27:27 > 0:27:29- "..Three minutes." - Three minutes!
0:27:29 > 0:27:32There isn't a thought in your head. You don't know what you're going to say.
0:27:32 > 0:27:35So you faff on for about three minutes
0:27:35 > 0:27:39and then he goes... There's two more,
0:27:39 > 0:27:42because the girl had obviously done herself a mischief.
0:27:42 > 0:27:44These are nerve-wracking moments.
0:27:44 > 0:27:47These do... Irish television, I'll always be grateful for it.
0:27:47 > 0:27:54It prepared me for the vicissitudes of what I endured when I came across to Britain.
0:27:54 > 0:27:59- There was no autocue.- And no earpieces, either.- No earpieces.
0:27:59 > 0:28:03You were always at the behest of the floor manager. Fair enough but
0:28:03 > 0:28:10when you're addressing a camera and you're trying to remember what your next lines are
0:28:10 > 0:28:16and you're not in character, as an actor, you take on the appearance of
0:28:16 > 0:28:17a frightened seagull.
0:28:17 > 0:28:24Your eyes glaze over. So there's no room for expression. There's no room to interpret.
0:28:24 > 0:28:28You're desperately trying to remember what you've got to say next.
0:28:28 > 0:28:33So it was a godsend when I came across to British television and found that we have autocues
0:28:33 > 0:28:35and all the rest of it.
0:28:35 > 0:28:40Was it assumed at that time because Eamonn Andrews had made the journey from Ireland to...
0:28:40 > 0:28:43Was it assumed that to make it big in the way that clearly it was in Scotland,
0:28:43 > 0:28:47in the '70s and '80s, that you had to leave, you had to go to London?
0:28:47 > 0:28:49Er, no. I don't think so.
0:28:49 > 0:28:56What drew me was the fact that I had grown up with the BBC
0:28:56 > 0:29:00and I'd wanted to see if I could make it.
0:29:00 > 0:29:06I really wanted to see, "Can I do it on the BBC?"
0:29:06 > 0:29:12Irish television and radio, at that time, I was doing fine and all the rest of it
0:29:12 > 0:29:17but I wasn't going any place quickly.
0:29:17 > 0:29:21So I sent off a tape to the BBC,
0:29:21 > 0:29:27of a radio show I did and luckily it was picked up by a man
0:29:27 > 0:29:30with a handlebar moustache who's name was Mark White.
0:29:30 > 0:29:35He was assistant head of gramophone department,
0:29:35 > 0:29:38and I owe him everything,
0:29:38 > 0:29:40because this tape, when he got it,
0:29:40 > 0:29:44hadn't been respooled so it was backwards.
0:29:44 > 0:29:50He actually took the time and trouble to respool the tape and listen to it.
0:29:50 > 0:29:53That could never happen nowadays.
0:29:53 > 0:29:55That would never ever happen now.
0:29:55 > 0:29:58But looking back at your career, I was very struck that interactivity,
0:29:58 > 0:30:02which is the huge thing now because of the internet and...
0:30:02 > 0:30:05Well, they have this phrase, don't they, in broadcasting now,
0:30:05 > 0:30:08"user- or audience-driven content."
0:30:08 > 0:30:12But you were on to that very early. I mean, even in Ireland...
0:30:12 > 0:30:14You did a show in Ireland, "Terry A While" -
0:30:14 > 0:30:16perhaps one of the worst titles ever!
0:30:16 > 0:30:19Get away with you! I thought that was very catchy.
0:30:19 > 0:30:21Ah, but it was, it was properly interactive.
0:30:21 > 0:30:23You were one of the first people to do this,
0:30:23 > 0:30:26to encourage the audience to respond and you would ring them up.
0:30:26 > 0:30:31I suppose, one of the first to use the phone. I mean, the phone is...
0:30:31 > 0:30:33totally abused now.
0:30:33 > 0:30:37It's ridiculous - it's the forum for every eccentric and lunatic,
0:30:37 > 0:30:41and so I absolutely abhor that now.
0:30:41 > 0:30:43Phone-in programmes? Forget them.
0:30:43 > 0:30:47But at the time, it was quite fresh and new.
0:30:47 > 0:30:49And again, it was risky, of course.
0:30:49 > 0:30:53So I was relying on myself to actually carry that off.
0:30:53 > 0:30:56And I sent a tape of that to the BBC
0:30:56 > 0:30:59when the BBC was starting - or about to start - Radio 1.
0:30:59 > 0:31:02And that's what got me the job on Late Night Extra.
0:31:02 > 0:31:06So I used to fly back and forward between Dublin and London
0:31:06 > 0:31:09to do that on a Wednesday and/or a Friday.
0:31:09 > 0:31:12And that was a terrific programme, I loved doing that,
0:31:12 > 0:31:18cos I worked with journalists, news coming in, music, comment.
0:31:18 > 0:31:21It was a very, very good radio magazine programme.
0:31:21 > 0:31:23I was struck by something you used to say
0:31:23 > 0:31:25in the '80s and '90s, which always...
0:31:25 > 0:31:28Which I'd never thought about until you said it,
0:31:28 > 0:31:31which is that you were an Irish broadcaster in the UK
0:31:31 > 0:31:34at a time when, in Northern Ireland,
0:31:34 > 0:31:36there was more or less a war going on
0:31:36 > 0:31:39and there were bombs going off in the streets of London.
0:31:39 > 0:31:45And you said that it showed great maturity of the audience here
0:31:45 > 0:31:47that it was never an issue. But I was interested -
0:31:47 > 0:31:50you thought there might be some sensitivity over that?
0:31:50 > 0:31:53Well, I was amazed that there wasn't.
0:31:53 > 0:31:57I mean, after a bomb goes off at a pub in Birmingham,
0:31:57 > 0:32:01kills innocent British people...
0:32:01 > 0:32:05The following morning, on a popular music network,
0:32:05 > 0:32:07an Irish voice comes up...
0:32:09 > 0:32:11..trying to be cheerful,
0:32:11 > 0:32:15and whose job it was to make people cheerful in the early morning -
0:32:15 > 0:32:17I was very conscious of that.
0:32:18 > 0:32:20But at the same time,
0:32:20 > 0:32:23I never felt it necessary to deny the fact that I was Irish.
0:32:25 > 0:32:27And subsequently, people - Irish people -
0:32:27 > 0:32:30who had lived as I did in Britain
0:32:30 > 0:32:34during the worst of the excesses in Northern Ireland,
0:32:34 > 0:32:36have come up to me and said that...
0:32:36 > 0:32:39I was a kind of help to them.
0:32:39 > 0:32:42Or I... But, you see...
0:32:42 > 0:32:46nearly everybody in Britain knew an Irish person,
0:32:46 > 0:32:48was friends with an Irish person...
0:32:48 > 0:32:51and knew that, as I have said quite clearly,
0:32:51 > 0:32:53that this has not been done in my name.
0:32:53 > 0:32:56There is a tolerance here that was quite extraordinary,
0:32:56 > 0:33:00given the circumstances of people dying in bomb...
0:33:00 > 0:33:03you know, IRA bomb activities. It's extraordinary.
0:33:03 > 0:33:06But when you first came to London, there must still have been...
0:33:06 > 0:33:09That notorious sign that used to be seen -
0:33:09 > 0:33:12"No blacks, no Irish" - in boarding houses
0:33:12 > 0:33:15was almost certainly still there in some parts of Britain.
0:33:15 > 0:33:18Did you ever feel...? Did you ever suffer any anti-Irish feeling here?
0:33:18 > 0:33:21No. Never suffered. Cos I was in a privileged position.
0:33:21 > 0:33:23And in a sense, if you like,
0:33:23 > 0:33:27Eamonn Andrews had beaten a path for people like me.
0:33:28 > 0:33:34So I was never, ever conscious - ever - of any anti-Irish feeling.
0:33:34 > 0:33:37There IS no anti-Irish feeling in this country.
0:33:37 > 0:33:39Even given the terrible things
0:33:39 > 0:33:43that happened in the name of freedom in Northern Ireland.
0:33:46 > 0:33:48And, indeed, it's reciprocated.
0:33:48 > 0:33:53It's extraordinary, in view of the 800 years of terrible history,
0:33:53 > 0:33:58that that tolerance, mutual respect, still exists.
0:33:58 > 0:34:00And that first Radio 2 show.
0:34:00 > 0:34:04Again, there interactivity - you had the Fight The Flab campaign
0:34:04 > 0:34:07and then, when Dallas took off on TV, again,
0:34:07 > 0:34:11that was talking about something the audience were talking about.
0:34:11 > 0:34:14The most important programme on any radio network
0:34:14 > 0:34:17is the morning show, the breakfast show.
0:34:17 > 0:34:19It identifies the network
0:34:19 > 0:34:22and it's at the time when people are more susceptible
0:34:22 > 0:34:26or more receptive, if you like, to what's going on.
0:34:26 > 0:34:29And so you have to reflect, I think,
0:34:29 > 0:34:33what they're actually looking at, or what they're listening to,
0:34:33 > 0:34:35or what they're involved with.
0:34:35 > 0:34:37And so all I did was try and reflect that.
0:34:37 > 0:34:44So when Dallas came on, I watched it, I found it insanely funny
0:34:44 > 0:34:48and, you know, walk-in wardrobes with wire coat hangers,
0:34:48 > 0:34:51the richest family in Texas...
0:34:51 > 0:34:52with only one phone.
0:34:53 > 0:34:54HE LAUGHS
0:34:54 > 0:34:57All those extraordinary anomalies where...
0:34:57 > 0:35:00Again, rich beyond the dreams of avarice
0:35:00 > 0:35:05and they had all their weddings and, indeed, parties
0:35:05 > 0:35:08in front of the garage on the drive.
0:35:08 > 0:35:11There are my folks. I'd better go say hello.
0:35:11 > 0:35:14This is where the element of acting comes in.
0:35:14 > 0:35:15Particularly doing a breakfast show,
0:35:15 > 0:35:18if your knee hurt or you had a cold
0:35:18 > 0:35:21or you were worried about one of your children at school or whatever,
0:35:21 > 0:35:24you could never show that - you had to be cheerful.
0:35:24 > 0:35:27Absolutely. But I don't have a problem with that.
0:35:28 > 0:35:33My wife says I'm a bit of a bore in the early morning, because I'm up.
0:35:33 > 0:35:38Maybe, maybe it's life imitating art, I don't know.
0:35:38 > 0:35:40But I never had any trouble.
0:35:40 > 0:35:44Again, it's the way you're brought up, it's the way you're educated.
0:35:44 > 0:35:46It's your job.
0:35:46 > 0:35:52You get up in the morning, it's your job to go in and cheer people up.
0:35:52 > 0:35:54If you walked into a doctor's...
0:35:56 > 0:35:57..with some kind of ailment
0:35:57 > 0:36:00and the first thing the doctor says to you is,
0:36:00 > 0:36:03"Oh, I've a terrible pain in my stomach, myself,"
0:36:03 > 0:36:06that's no good to anybody! THEY BOTH LAUGH
0:36:06 > 0:36:10What I had to do was be cheerful.
0:36:10 > 0:36:12Insofar as I could, be myself.
0:36:12 > 0:36:17But I'm lucky that, temperamentally, I'm OK in the morning.
0:36:17 > 0:36:18In fact, boring.
0:36:18 > 0:36:21Actually, the only time I heard you sound unhappy on air,
0:36:21 > 0:36:25I subsequently discovered that Paul Walters was ill,
0:36:25 > 0:36:26very ill - your producer.
0:36:26 > 0:36:29And it was the only time that I've ever heard that.
0:36:29 > 0:36:31But are you able, generally,
0:36:31 > 0:36:34to remain optimistic in the face of that kind of thing?
0:36:34 > 0:36:36Yeah. Yeah, I am an optimist.
0:36:36 > 0:36:39Yeah, I am. And, anyway, you have to compartmentalise.
0:36:39 > 0:36:45You can't allow personal worries to intrude in the broadcasting.
0:36:45 > 0:36:47The public are not interested -
0:36:47 > 0:36:51they want to hear the same person doing the same thing every morning.
0:36:51 > 0:36:54A lot of people do go mad with success -
0:36:54 > 0:36:57your successor on Radio 2, Chris Evans, has been quite clear
0:36:57 > 0:37:00that there was a period where he completely lost it.
0:37:00 > 0:37:01- He did.- In every way possible.
0:37:01 > 0:37:03But he's clearly turned himself round now.
0:37:03 > 0:37:05I was very lucky.
0:37:05 > 0:37:10I had a career in Ireland - I was very famous in a small community.
0:37:10 > 0:37:14Because I was one of the first faces on Irish television.
0:37:14 > 0:37:19And, for the first time, Ireland had its own public heroes,
0:37:19 > 0:37:20and I was one of them.
0:37:20 > 0:37:22So, you know...
0:37:23 > 0:37:27..it stopped me going to a pub - I couldn't got to pubs any more.
0:37:27 > 0:37:29It stopped me playing rugby.
0:37:29 > 0:37:31Because people were out to...
0:37:31 > 0:37:34"You see that fella reading the news there? I gave him that black eye!"
0:37:34 > 0:37:37And so I just stopped doing that.
0:37:37 > 0:37:41So it changed my life, but I did learn how to cope with it.
0:37:41 > 0:37:47As I was walking down Henry Street in Dublin, somebody shouted,
0:37:47 > 0:37:48"There's Terry Wogan!"
0:37:48 > 0:37:51And somebody else was saying, "Very fat, isn't he?"
0:37:51 > 0:37:57These are the things that arm you against going mad,
0:37:57 > 0:38:00and so when I came to Britain,
0:38:00 > 0:38:04I'd been through that already, so I was able to cope with it.
0:38:04 > 0:38:06As far as we can tell, you seem to have avoided
0:38:06 > 0:38:09the showgirls and cocaine side of show business.
0:38:09 > 0:38:12Ah, you see, but I'm not telling you! MARK CHUCKLES
0:38:12 > 0:38:16But were there ever, um... Were there what your Jesuit teachers
0:38:16 > 0:38:18would have called, "occasions of sin"?
0:38:18 > 0:38:21"Occasions of sin." Ah, yes. Impure thoughts.
0:38:21 > 0:38:25Um... Well, there was certainly... And it went on without my knowing it,
0:38:25 > 0:38:30because when I started to work for the BBC, within two or three years,
0:38:30 > 0:38:34there became a huge payola scandal on radio,
0:38:34 > 0:38:38where people were playing records for sexual favours,
0:38:38 > 0:38:41or for a drink, or for parties,
0:38:41 > 0:38:44or for loose women, or for all that kind of stuff.
0:38:44 > 0:38:49Now, I was doing one of the major shows of the afternoon,
0:38:49 > 0:38:53with an audience of about, what, six, seven million.
0:38:53 > 0:38:58Nobody ever, ever came up and offered me a sexual favour.
0:38:58 > 0:39:00Nobody.
0:39:00 > 0:39:01And I'm...
0:39:01 > 0:39:06I don't know whether complimented or offended by that, really.
0:39:06 > 0:39:08Your Jesuit teachers would be pleased.
0:39:08 > 0:39:11It's obviously your character or your upbringing or something.
0:39:11 > 0:39:14Maybe I look boring, that's what it is.
0:39:14 > 0:39:17They got very into this thing in the '80s called "bi-media,"
0:39:17 > 0:39:20and people used to go around saying, "Are you bi yet?"
0:39:20 > 0:39:21And all that kind of thing.
0:39:21 > 0:39:23But you always were, weren't you, really.
0:39:23 > 0:39:26I mean, in Ireland, but then also in Britain,
0:39:26 > 0:39:29you tended to have radio and TV on the go at the same time.
0:39:29 > 0:39:30Yeah, I think it's important.
0:39:30 > 0:39:34I always felt that if you wanted to really make a career...
0:39:34 > 0:39:37or a living, you had to do both.
0:39:37 > 0:39:39You had to cross over.
0:39:39 > 0:39:41I was a natural, I suppose, at radio,
0:39:41 > 0:39:44but television is a much more difficult medium.
0:39:44 > 0:39:47And you can't be a natural at television - nobody is.
0:39:47 > 0:39:51And so when I came across here, it took a while,
0:39:51 > 0:39:52and then Blankety Blank started.
0:39:52 > 0:39:57And that was the very first instance for me where I could achieve
0:39:57 > 0:40:01the same degree of freedom of television as I could on radio.
0:40:01 > 0:40:07Good evening and welcome again to our warm and homely little quiz game.
0:40:07 > 0:40:09I could talk and walk
0:40:09 > 0:40:12without wondering whether I was in the correct light,
0:40:12 > 0:40:14and I could make it up as I go along.
0:40:14 > 0:40:18And that was a watershed for me as far as television was concerned.
0:40:18 > 0:40:22What's small and green and covered with red spots?
0:40:22 > 0:40:23With measles.
0:40:23 > 0:40:25An unripe...
0:40:25 > 0:40:26raspberry.
0:40:26 > 0:40:28An unripe...?
0:40:28 > 0:40:30- Raspberry.- Raspberry.
0:40:30 > 0:40:33LAUGHTER
0:40:33 > 0:40:35APPLAUSE
0:40:41 > 0:40:44Well, let's see how many points David gets with this one(!)
0:40:44 > 0:40:48LAUGHTER
0:40:48 > 0:40:49Wogan On TV...
0:40:49 > 0:40:51Still sometimes in profiles of you,
0:40:51 > 0:40:54people refer to it as a failure or a flop.
0:40:54 > 0:40:56It's important to establish, I think,
0:40:56 > 0:41:00it was getting a huge number of viewers for a large number of years.
0:41:00 > 0:41:03It used to get eight million viewers!
0:41:03 > 0:41:05But those were in the quondam days.
0:41:05 > 0:41:07Yeah, I think, probably...
0:41:09 > 0:41:12..it got a certain amount of criticism
0:41:12 > 0:41:16because they felt that the questions were a bit banal.
0:41:16 > 0:41:19That's always levelled at all talk show hosts, but...
0:41:19 > 0:41:24talk shows, chat shows, are cheap entertainment -
0:41:24 > 0:41:27they don't cost a lot to do, they're light entertainment.
0:41:27 > 0:41:29And the one I was doing,
0:41:29 > 0:41:33which perhaps was not fully appreciated, was live!
0:41:33 > 0:41:37And really, you were on your toes all the time. You didn't have...
0:41:37 > 0:41:39There was no space to edit,
0:41:39 > 0:41:43there was no room to take out somebody who wouldn't speak,
0:41:43 > 0:41:45there was no room to take out drunken behaviour.
0:41:45 > 0:41:47Which you had with George Best.
0:41:47 > 0:41:53Yes. And, indeed, with Anne Bancroft, who came out in a catatonic trance.
0:41:53 > 0:41:56'And I said to her, "You're not enjoying this much, are you?"'
0:41:56 > 0:41:58And she said, "No."
0:41:58 > 0:42:01Why do you hate this kind of thing so much? Is it me?
0:42:01 > 0:42:04- Probably.- It's probably me. LAUGHTER
0:42:04 > 0:42:07It's not the dried flowers or anything.
0:42:07 > 0:42:08That too, yes.
0:42:09 > 0:42:11And dear George...he'd had a few.
0:42:12 > 0:42:15'You'd think the whole world had been watching it,
0:42:15 > 0:42:18'rather than eight million - it was all over the papers.'
0:42:18 > 0:42:21But he didn't mean any harm by it - he'd just had a few drinks and, um...
0:42:22 > 0:42:26He was a nice man. Didn't mean me any harm.
0:42:26 > 0:42:29Terry, I like screwing, all right?
0:42:29 > 0:42:31STUNNED LAUGHTER
0:42:31 > 0:42:34Oh. Oh, right. So what do you do with your times these days?
0:42:34 > 0:42:36- I screw.- I see. LAUGHTER
0:42:36 > 0:42:38Ladies and gentlemen, George Best!
0:42:38 > 0:42:40APPLAUSE
0:42:42 > 0:42:45One of the interesting bits is when you were spoke to David Icke,
0:42:45 > 0:42:49this man who clearly was not in the best way mentally,
0:42:49 > 0:42:50I think we can probably say.
0:42:50 > 0:42:52I imagine now, on most talk shows,
0:42:52 > 0:42:55the audience would be turned against him.
0:42:55 > 0:42:58Now you didn't do that - you say to him very gently,
0:42:58 > 0:43:02"They're not laughing WITH you, they're laughing AT you."
0:43:02 > 0:43:05- LAUGHTER - Fine!
0:43:05 > 0:43:08CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:43:09 > 0:43:12I didn't mean that to be hurtful, I don't want you to misinterpret it -
0:43:12 > 0:43:15they're not laughing in sympathy with you.
0:43:15 > 0:43:17That was an uncomfortable moment,
0:43:17 > 0:43:20as you didn't want to be talking to someone who was in that state.
0:43:20 > 0:43:23That was the risk you took with live television.
0:43:23 > 0:43:26I mean, I used to find myself looking at people who wouldn't speak,
0:43:26 > 0:43:28thinking, "What the hell are you doing on this show
0:43:28 > 0:43:31"if you're not prepared to talk?"
0:43:31 > 0:43:33Americans always found it difficult that it was live.
0:43:33 > 0:43:36Nothing on American television is live.
0:43:36 > 0:43:38They have this odd phrase, don't they, "taped as live."
0:43:38 > 0:43:42Yeah, come on. Yeah, you can edit out all the stuff.
0:43:42 > 0:43:44But that was the risk I took
0:43:44 > 0:43:47and it worked for about eight, eight and a half years.
0:43:47 > 0:43:50And it wasn't as good a fit for you as radio shows,
0:43:50 > 0:43:54- because I think you prefer not to prepare, don't you?- Mm.
0:43:54 > 0:43:55I know a producer who worked for you
0:43:55 > 0:43:58and he said he felt you were uncomfortable.
0:43:58 > 0:44:01They'd have briefs and they'd want to go through the questions
0:44:01 > 0:44:04and that's not how you'd want to work.
0:44:04 > 0:44:05No. But, of course,
0:44:05 > 0:44:08I wasn't in a strong enough position to assert that at the time.
0:44:08 > 0:44:11If I was doing it now, it would be different.
0:44:11 > 0:44:15I do have a belief that you should have enough intelligence
0:44:15 > 0:44:18or general knowledge to be able to conduct an interview
0:44:18 > 0:44:21with anybody who comes on - you should know your stuff.
0:44:21 > 0:44:26Obviously, with the BBC there wasn't enough trust in me
0:44:26 > 0:44:29to carry on an interview longer.
0:44:29 > 0:44:32We could get an interesting interview but you would have to cut it short
0:44:32 > 0:44:35because there was a musical item coming up and two more guests.
0:44:35 > 0:44:39And then sometimes, you would get really famous guest on last,
0:44:39 > 0:44:43and you would only get three minutes to talk to them. I always find that frustrating.
0:44:43 > 0:44:47I also found it frustrating that it wasn't on every night.
0:44:47 > 0:44:51Not that I wanted to be on every night but I couldn't preserve any continuity
0:44:51 > 0:44:56and that, I think, was the difference between that and the region.
0:44:56 > 0:45:03If I had been able to do it every day and run and interview
0:45:03 > 0:45:08and say to stay for a few minutes, that is what I wanted.
0:45:08 > 0:45:11I wanted more freedom and I didn't have it.
0:45:11 > 0:45:17But, I mean it was successful. I love doing it.
0:45:17 > 0:45:22The problem was that it was time to give it a rest.
0:45:22 > 0:45:26They said, no you are doing splendidly for us
0:45:26 > 0:45:31at 150 hours of television and it makes a difference and we need it desperately
0:45:31 > 0:45:37- and in the meantime, they were building this village in Spain to replace me.- For Eldorado?
0:45:37 > 0:45:40They never said a word to me about.
0:45:40 > 0:45:42I think that's what moulds you.
0:45:42 > 0:45:47You think, that that is never going to happen again.
0:45:47 > 0:45:54I'll make my own timings. I'll leave when I want to leave.
0:45:54 > 0:45:58But in the end, you were happiest as a broadcaster doing interrupted monologues,
0:45:58 > 0:46:05monologues interrupted by the audience, rather than interviewing.
0:46:05 > 0:46:10I thought I was OK as an interviewer. I mean, I took it lightly.
0:46:10 > 0:46:13I didn't think it was a serious form.
0:46:13 > 0:46:17Not what we were doing, it was a half an hour live,
0:46:17 > 0:46:21you had three guests, music item, you are not going to get awful lot of time.
0:46:21 > 0:46:23You try and make it as light as you can.
0:46:23 > 0:46:28We had some wonderful guests, Leslie Nielsen, Dudley Moore,
0:46:28 > 0:46:34and I got to meet Gregory Peck, June Allyson, Stuart Granger,
0:46:34 > 0:46:39James Stewart.
0:46:39 > 0:46:44I wouldn't have met those if I hadn't done this show,
0:46:44 > 0:46:46so I don't regret doing it.
0:46:46 > 0:46:49In a sense I regret that it finished as it did.
0:46:49 > 0:46:52You were angry with television, weren't you?
0:46:52 > 0:46:56I was angry with what had happened as you would be.
0:46:56 > 0:46:59But I was able to re-established.
0:46:59 > 0:47:03My credential was the daily radio show, I got back into it.
0:47:03 > 0:47:08The public came back and my credibility was re-established.
0:47:08 > 0:47:12If hadn't been for that, I could've been doing countdown!
0:47:12 > 0:47:17But also those years on the Wogan TV show,
0:47:17 > 0:47:20you had an astonishing level of fame.
0:47:20 > 0:47:22It was difficult to go to restaurants,
0:47:22 > 0:47:26it was difficult for your children. It was terrible.
0:47:26 > 0:47:31People hadn't been exposed on TV as much is that.
0:47:31 > 0:47:36No, that's true. It passed me as the idle wind.
0:47:36 > 0:47:41- But it was difficult for your family.- It wasn't easy for my children.
0:47:41 > 0:47:47I always feel, the old cliche, if it doesn't kill you,
0:47:47 > 0:47:52it's going to make you stronger. So, they came out unscathed.
0:47:52 > 0:47:59But I did appreciate at the time. Nowadays, I think they are more appreciative of me.
0:47:59 > 0:48:03But they are middle-aged people now.
0:48:03 > 0:48:08You gave a very interesting piece of advice was which if anyone attacked you at school,
0:48:08 > 0:48:14- about your dad and just agree with them.- Agree with them. Absolutely. Turn away wrath.
0:48:14 > 0:48:20There is no point arguing. 'You're absolutely right, you should try living with him.' That's what I said.
0:48:20 > 0:48:22That is what I was to say.
0:48:22 > 0:48:25A lot is said about the dangers of celebrity.
0:48:25 > 0:48:30An American writer had a great phrase about fame
0:48:30 > 0:48:34that it's a mask that eats into the face.
0:48:34 > 0:48:40- That's brilliant.- Were you ever aware of been damaged by it all?
0:48:41 > 0:48:44No. I always had my family.
0:48:45 > 0:48:49My philosophy has always been this is what I do,
0:48:49 > 0:48:55I have been very lucky to find something I can do that suited me
0:48:55 > 0:49:00and I suppose I was naturally gifted to do.
0:49:02 > 0:49:07I never look at myself. I never listen to myself. It's what I do.
0:49:07 > 0:49:14Then, I do it and them I'd go home and have my dinner.
0:49:14 > 0:49:21That's it, the most important thing in your life is your family. That is my rock.
0:49:21 > 0:49:29My wife and my children and nothing else. The rest, as they say, is peripheral.
0:49:37 > 0:49:42You talk about that time in Ireland, when someone shouted, "Isn't he fat?"
0:49:42 > 0:49:48You were commented on by people that were commenting on your hair.
0:49:48 > 0:49:50Were you ever hurt by that?
0:49:50 > 0:49:54No, you've got to move on.
0:49:54 > 0:49:59I mean, if that's the worst thing they can say about you, that's OK.
0:49:59 > 0:50:05I'm obsessed with this, for clear reasons. Can we settle this?
0:50:05 > 0:50:08It's the kind of thing,
0:50:08 > 0:50:14If they can't think of anything else to say,
0:50:14 > 0:50:19they say this.
0:50:19 > 0:50:24You've been ruder towards BBC management than any other broadcaster has been.
0:50:24 > 0:50:28Nonsense. No, I haven't, Mark. I've only the highest respect for you.
0:50:28 > 0:50:33I'll tell you what we have got away with on Radio 2 is Janet and John.
0:50:33 > 0:50:37Which were the filthiest things ever to be broadcast.
0:50:38 > 0:50:40Absolutely. I never understood them, of course.
0:50:40 > 0:50:47Janet is just about to serve his food. Janet said, "Did you have a nice time in the park?" "Yes, I did.
0:50:47 > 0:50:52"On the way, I fell off my scooter and Mrs Park saw me,
0:50:52 > 0:50:56"took me to the shop and sorted me out. She got the wood out and saw I had a nasty scuff.
0:50:56 > 0:51:03"She got on her knees, rubbed some cream in it, up and down until I could see my face in it."
0:51:03 > 0:51:06She said it was a pleasure to find a man who wasn't afraid to
0:51:06 > 0:51:08splash out on a decent pair.
0:51:08 > 0:51:13HE LAUGHS
0:51:13 > 0:51:16We could never had got away with it on Radio 4.
0:51:16 > 0:51:20It's just that, as far as the BBC's concerned, Radio 2, Radio 1,
0:51:20 > 0:51:23just popular broadcasting, you know?
0:51:23 > 0:51:27Not important. No opinion-makers ever listen to it.
0:51:27 > 0:51:30It's also something about you, though, isn't it? If Jonathan Ross
0:51:30 > 0:51:33had read out those stories, the BBC would have been closed down.
0:51:33 > 0:51:37But there was something about the fact that it was you that,
0:51:37 > 0:51:38um, diluted it somehow.
0:51:38 > 0:51:43Well, yeah, but it...it all depends on the delivery.
0:51:43 > 0:51:47Um...I always read them absolutely straight.
0:51:47 > 0:51:53And...uh...half the time in complete ignorance of what was going on.
0:51:53 > 0:51:54What used to astound me
0:51:54 > 0:51:57was the number of old ladies who got the jokes!
0:51:57 > 0:52:00THEY LAUGH
0:52:02 > 0:52:06A broadcaster has to face the fact that it just vanishes, the stuff you've done.
0:52:06 > 0:52:10All those thousands of hours on Radio 2 which people greatly love,
0:52:10 > 0:52:11they're all just gone.
0:52:11 > 0:52:13Do you just accept that,
0:52:13 > 0:52:16or do you regret that you didn't do something more permanent?
0:52:16 > 0:52:20Dear old Paulie Walters, who was my...great friend of mine and my producer,
0:52:20 > 0:52:23at the end of every show, he used to say, "Well, there it is.
0:52:23 > 0:52:26"It's gone. On its way to Venus," he'd say.
0:52:26 > 0:52:32And you have to keep that attitude about what we do,
0:52:32 > 0:52:34because it's transient.
0:52:34 > 0:52:39Nothing is forever. And it's ephemeral, it's light entertainment.
0:52:39 > 0:52:42It's not meant to dwell.
0:52:42 > 0:52:45And equally, you have to accept the fact that
0:52:45 > 0:52:50when you're working in it, it's not a permanent pensionable position.
0:52:50 > 0:52:52If I'd wanted that, I would have stayed in the bank.
0:52:52 > 0:52:58Um, so, you move on. You don't look back.
0:52:58 > 0:53:01You just carry on, hope for the best.
0:53:01 > 0:53:03There is this whole question of adjustment.
0:53:03 > 0:53:04You're not retired,
0:53:04 > 0:53:08but you gave up the morning radio show on Radio 2.
0:53:08 > 0:53:09Now, be honest about this.
0:53:09 > 0:53:14Was there a difficult period of adjustment when you gave it up?
0:53:14 > 0:53:19I would be nothing else but brutally frank with you. No.
0:53:19 > 0:53:21To be honest, no.
0:53:21 > 0:53:27Because, um, as you said earlier, I'm a risk-taker with my career.
0:53:27 > 0:53:33The only permanence I require is in my family. And so...
0:53:34 > 0:53:37..of course I miss the morning show. I miss the camaraderie.
0:53:37 > 0:53:42I miss the contact, the interfacing with the public, you know?
0:53:42 > 0:53:45500 or 600 emails every morning.
0:53:45 > 0:53:47I knew what the public wanted,
0:53:47 > 0:53:51I knew what the public thought about...about everything, if you like.
0:53:51 > 0:53:56And I was able to build on that kind of correspondence.
0:53:56 > 0:54:03I do miss that. I miss that fun. But...you know, you can't...
0:54:03 > 0:54:07I've always been the kind of person that leaves parties early.
0:54:07 > 0:54:13My mother always said that I used to come in in Elm Park, Limerick,
0:54:13 > 0:54:18when I'd finish playing and lock the gate behind me
0:54:18 > 0:54:22and go in the front door. And that's the way I've always been.
0:54:22 > 0:54:27And so, I do try and go,
0:54:27 > 0:54:30make for the exit before people start leading me to it.
0:54:30 > 0:54:32And that is very unusual and I think it's important.
0:54:32 > 0:54:36It's virtually unique in broadcasting that you left the morning show
0:54:36 > 0:54:38at the time of your own choosing.
0:54:38 > 0:54:42Most people we know are dragged out kicking and screaming, aren't they?
0:54:42 > 0:54:44- Yes!- And resenting it and writing articles in the papers.- I know.
0:54:44 > 0:54:46It's pathetic, isn't it?
0:54:46 > 0:54:48Yeah, but you're one of the very few people who was
0:54:48 > 0:54:51able to leave in the way you wanted.
0:54:51 > 0:54:55I think, Mark, that's because I didn't come from a showbiz background.
0:54:55 > 0:55:00I haven't had to battle my way up from the bottom of the bill.
0:55:02 > 0:55:07I haven't had the classic insecurity of our business.
0:55:07 > 0:55:11I've always been secure. I've always had reasonable self esteem.
0:55:11 > 0:55:12And I've never starved.
0:55:12 > 0:55:16And so, I have enough confidence to walk away
0:55:16 > 0:55:18when I think the time is right.
0:55:18 > 0:55:22And this is it, then. This is the day I've been dreading.
0:55:22 > 0:55:26The inevitable morning when you and I come to the parting of the ways.
0:55:26 > 0:55:29And that final morning on Radio 2, again,
0:55:29 > 0:55:32I think, symbolic of your career in the BBC.
0:55:32 > 0:55:35There was a little bit of barney there with BBC management,
0:55:35 > 0:55:37because you said on air that one of them said,
0:55:37 > 0:55:39"Aren't you over-doing the sentimentality a bit?"
0:55:39 > 0:55:41No, I don't remember that at all.
0:55:41 > 0:55:45I'm not saying I don't remember, I just don't remember that.
0:55:45 > 0:55:51Um, yeah, obviously that was a thing I prepared. I wrote that down.
0:55:51 > 0:55:54I don't really write anything else down,
0:55:54 > 0:55:56but I wrote that down because I wanted to get that right.
0:55:56 > 0:56:00It was important to me to say goodbye in the right way.
0:56:00 > 0:56:04And, um, it was a sad morning for me. Very sad.
0:56:04 > 0:56:07What you told me beforehand, because I asked you, you said
0:56:07 > 0:56:10you definitely weren't going to cry, but you did, didn't you?
0:56:10 > 0:56:16There was a slight choke, Mark, I wouldn't put it higher than that.
0:56:16 > 0:56:21A little fogging of the eyes, yes. But, uh, yeah...
0:56:21 > 0:56:25You know, I'd invested an awful lot of time
0:56:25 > 0:56:29and an awful lot of broadcasting in years and years of morning radio.
0:56:30 > 0:56:34Uh...but it was time to say, you know...
0:56:34 > 0:56:38Time to go, uh, before everybody gets fed up with you.
0:56:38 > 0:56:40So, I'm going to miss you.
0:56:40 > 0:56:42Until we're together again in February,
0:56:42 > 0:56:46have a happy Christmas and thank you.
0:56:46 > 0:56:48Thank you for being my friend.
0:56:51 > 0:56:54When you look at Sir Bruce Forsyth now, um,
0:56:54 > 0:56:58this huge show either side of his 80th birthday...
0:56:58 > 0:57:02- Bless him.- ..do you, um... do you sort of hanker after that?
0:57:02 > 0:57:05Would you like there to be another huge show?
0:57:06 > 0:57:13I don't care. It'll...it'll happen or it won't. It'll probably not happen.
0:57:13 > 0:57:18It's... I'm an old geezer now. Mind you, so is Bruce!
0:57:18 > 0:57:22But he can dance, trip the light fantastic,
0:57:22 > 0:57:26a lot better than I can and he's remarkable.
0:57:26 > 0:57:31It's wonderful to see and I'm sure he'll go on and on and,
0:57:31 > 0:57:36uh...I'll probably go on and on doing little things.
0:57:36 > 0:57:42And maybe somebody will offer me something to do that's popular.
0:57:42 > 0:57:45And maybe it'll succeed and maybe it won't.
0:57:45 > 0:57:48Finally, the other traditional temptation to the Irish
0:57:48 > 0:57:51is to return in their declining years,
0:57:51 > 0:57:54but you must have discussed that with Lady Wogan?
0:57:54 > 0:57:57"Maybe some day I'll go back to Ireland.
0:57:58 > 0:58:03"Only at the closing of my day." Uh, no. No. I love Ireland,
0:58:03 > 0:58:09but you want to be where your family is. All my family live in Britain.
0:58:09 > 0:58:12So, yeah, we'll go back - we'll see my family,
0:58:12 > 0:58:16we'll see Helen's family and they'll come to us,
0:58:16 > 0:58:20but I'm not sure that we'd ever want to live back there again.
0:58:20 > 0:58:23Um... This is where we live. This is where our family lives.
0:58:25 > 0:58:28- Sir Terry Wogan, thank you. - Thank you, Mark.
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