Naish/Hughes

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0:00:02 > 0:00:05Each year in the UK, thousands of people die without leaving

0:00:05 > 0:00:08a will and with no known relatives.

0:00:08 > 0:00:12We've certainly never seen anybody come to visit, in all the time

0:00:12 > 0:00:14we've known the house.

0:00:15 > 0:00:18If a member of the family doesn't come forward to claim

0:00:18 > 0:00:21the estate all the money will go to the government.

0:00:22 > 0:00:24And that's where the heir hunters come in.

0:00:26 > 0:00:29They specialise in tracing beneficiaries and giving

0:00:29 > 0:00:32them news of a legacy which can turn their world upside down.

0:00:34 > 0:00:39I've never met him or anything, so this is out of the blue.

0:00:39 > 0:00:43The heir hunting world is steeped in rivalry, as thousands

0:00:43 > 0:00:45of pounds can be at stake.

0:00:45 > 0:00:47There is talk that it could be upwards of £50,000

0:00:47 > 0:00:49in savings accounts.

0:00:49 > 0:00:55And families and long-lost relatives can at last be reunited.

0:00:55 > 0:00:57Hello. Come in!

0:00:57 > 0:01:01Above all, it's about giving people news of an unexpected windfall.

0:01:01 > 0:01:04Could the heir hunters be knocking at your door?

0:01:11 > 0:01:14Coming up... the race is on to beat rivals to an estate

0:01:14 > 0:01:17worth in excess of £750,000.

0:01:18 > 0:01:21I hope there's not going to be competition,

0:01:21 > 0:01:24but until you get there, you just don't know.

0:01:24 > 0:01:28And the success of a valuable case rests on the heir hunters

0:01:28 > 0:01:30discovering crucial documents.

0:01:30 > 0:01:33I've just, in the bottom of this wardrobe, I found a false floor.

0:01:33 > 0:01:36I lifted it up and I have some boxes.

0:01:36 > 0:01:40Plus, how you could be entitled to inherit unclaimed estates

0:01:40 > 0:01:41held by the Treasury.

0:01:41 > 0:01:44Could thousands of pounds be heading your way?

0:01:50 > 0:01:54It's early on a summer morning and heir hunter Stuart is driving

0:01:54 > 0:01:58across the Wiltshire countryside, in pursuit of a new case.

0:01:58 > 0:02:02First case of the day, travelled up to Swindon.

0:02:02 > 0:02:06What a lovely day to be out and about in Wiltshire!

0:02:08 > 0:02:11Stuart works for London-based company Finders

0:02:11 > 0:02:13and he's been dispatched by Senior Case Manager

0:02:13 > 0:02:16Amy-Louise Moyes, who has spent the past couple of days

0:02:16 > 0:02:19researching the estate of Michael Naish.

0:02:19 > 0:02:21It's a private referral.

0:02:21 > 0:02:25We've been given his death certificate

0:02:25 > 0:02:31and informed that the estate, quite a large valued estate,

0:02:31 > 0:02:36it's worth between £750,000 up to, potentially, a million pounds.

0:02:36 > 0:02:40With such a high-value case at stake the pressure is now on Stuart,

0:02:40 > 0:02:44because he's on his way to visit potential heirs to this fortune.

0:02:44 > 0:02:49I hope there's not going to be competition, but you never know.

0:02:49 > 0:02:52People... I've arrived at doors before

0:02:52 > 0:02:55where somebody has been in there

0:02:55 > 0:03:00and you just bow out graciously, but I don't know.

0:03:00 > 0:03:02Until you get there, you don't know.

0:03:05 > 0:03:10Michael Naish died, aged 79, on 24 October, 2011, at his home

0:03:10 > 0:03:12in an Oxfordshire village.

0:03:14 > 0:03:18Unfortunately, there are no surviving photographs of Michael.

0:03:18 > 0:03:22However, he's remembered fondly by people in the village, as he was

0:03:22 > 0:03:26a familiar face in the area, running the local pub for over ten years.

0:03:26 > 0:03:30Very well known in the community, very well liked.

0:03:30 > 0:03:33You only ever saw him working seven days a week.

0:03:33 > 0:03:37The older people said he was lovely - a nice person,

0:03:37 > 0:03:40down-to-earth, always willing to help.

0:03:40 > 0:03:44Well, he would've been the centre of the community, because everybody

0:03:44 > 0:03:48in the area would have come to see him at night, have a chat, a drink.

0:03:48 > 0:03:50They would sit here all night talking, spitting sawdust,

0:03:50 > 0:03:52as they used to call it years ago!

0:03:56 > 0:03:57Michael was a bachelor

0:03:57 > 0:04:00and spent his life living in the family home in Oxfordshire.

0:04:00 > 0:04:05When he passed away in 2011, leaving behind a valuable property

0:04:05 > 0:04:09but no will, solicitors were called in to handle his estate

0:04:09 > 0:04:12and they turned to the heir hunters to help make sure

0:04:12 > 0:04:14every relative was traced.

0:04:14 > 0:04:17For boss Daniel Curran, this is not uncommon.

0:04:17 > 0:04:20We get a lot of cases from solicitors,

0:04:20 > 0:04:22because, obviously, it is a specialist field.

0:04:22 > 0:04:27They might have situations they can resolve themselves,

0:04:27 > 0:04:32but for every one of those there is another one where there is

0:04:32 > 0:04:36problems or difficulties in locating the correct beneficiaries.

0:04:36 > 0:04:39They also have to be sure they are finding and proving

0:04:39 > 0:04:42they are finding the right people, as well.

0:04:42 > 0:04:45The solicitors on the Naish case were already in contact

0:04:45 > 0:04:48with relatives on Michael's father's side of the family,

0:04:48 > 0:04:52but there was no trace of any family through his mother's side.

0:04:52 > 0:04:56The paternal family believe that

0:04:56 > 0:04:59Michael's mother was an only child,

0:04:59 > 0:05:02but we need to verify the information, of course,

0:05:02 > 0:05:06before the estate is distributed, so I'm looking into the maternal family.

0:05:06 > 0:05:09When the case was handed to Amy two days ago,

0:05:09 > 0:05:12she had a useful head start.

0:05:12 > 0:05:15We've been provided with Michael's parents' names.

0:05:15 > 0:05:19They were Kate Emma Hobbs and Walter James Naish.

0:05:19 > 0:05:22We were also informed that Michael had an elder brother,

0:05:22 > 0:05:25who actually predeceased him, in 2004.

0:05:25 > 0:05:28This meant that Amy

0:05:28 > 0:05:31and her team had plenty of information to work with.

0:05:31 > 0:05:35They knew that Michael had died without marrying or having children

0:05:35 > 0:05:38and it seemed the same was true of his elder brother, Gerald.

0:05:38 > 0:05:42For all intents and purposes, they were living together,

0:05:42 > 0:05:46the brothers, and the brother died a bachelor, without issue.

0:05:48 > 0:05:52With no partners, children or siblings to inherit,

0:05:52 > 0:05:55all heirs on this estate would come from the wider family and that

0:05:55 > 0:05:59meant looking to Michael's parents, Walter Naish and Kate Hobbs.

0:05:59 > 0:06:04The couple married in 1918 and moved to Oxfordshire, where Walter

0:06:04 > 0:06:06was stationed with the 13th Rifle Brigade,

0:06:06 > 0:06:10which was part of the highly decorated regiment which suffered

0:06:10 > 0:06:13horrific losses during the First World War.

0:06:13 > 0:06:15Fortunately though, Walter survived.

0:06:19 > 0:06:22The solicitors had already established that Michael

0:06:22 > 0:06:26was one of two sons born to Walter James Naish and Kate Emma Hobbs.

0:06:26 > 0:06:30They had made contact with two paternal cousins,

0:06:30 > 0:06:34each of whom would be entitled to a share of Michael's huge estate.

0:06:35 > 0:06:37OK.

0:06:37 > 0:06:41But the estate could not be paid out until all the heirs had been found.

0:06:41 > 0:06:43The team now focused on Michael's mother, Kate,

0:06:43 > 0:06:46to see if she was an only child, as some believed.

0:06:46 > 0:06:51With Kate, because she was born in 1896, the...

0:06:51 > 0:06:53The best thing to do

0:06:53 > 0:06:57and the fastest way to get results was to look at census records,

0:06:57 > 0:07:01so the first thing to do would be to look at the 1901 Census.

0:07:01 > 0:07:05This would give us an initial idea of whether or not she was an only child.

0:07:07 > 0:07:09Censuses are compiled every ten years

0:07:09 > 0:07:12and give a snapshot of Britain's population, by showing

0:07:12 > 0:07:15who is living at every property on one particular day.

0:07:15 > 0:07:18Censuses are usually only made public

0:07:18 > 0:07:20100 years after being compiled,

0:07:20 > 0:07:24but they contain details of people's age, marital status

0:07:24 > 0:07:29and relatives, and for Amy and her team, this would prove invaluable.

0:07:29 > 0:07:34Having a look at the 1901 Census, we found Kate

0:07:34 > 0:07:38and we can see that she is living with her mother Clara, a laundress.

0:07:38 > 0:07:44She's also living with seven siblings, so in 1901 she would

0:07:44 > 0:07:49appear to be one of eight children of Clara and Edgar, her father.

0:07:49 > 0:07:54And certainly not an only child, as previously thought.

0:07:54 > 0:07:58This was crucial for the team, as it meant there was now a good chance

0:07:58 > 0:08:01there would be heirs on the maternal side of the family.

0:08:01 > 0:08:03For every heir they found,

0:08:03 > 0:08:07the team would earn a pre-agreed percentage of the estate, so they

0:08:07 > 0:08:11quickly began tracing descendants of Kate's brothers and sisters.

0:08:11 > 0:08:17I would usually start with one of the male siblings,

0:08:17 > 0:08:22because it is a lot easier to find a death record, but given that

0:08:22 > 0:08:26one of Kate's sisters has a particularly unusual name,

0:08:26 > 0:08:30Virtue Annie Hobbs is her name, I am going to look at Virtue first,

0:08:30 > 0:08:34in the hopes of finding somebody fairly quickly.

0:08:36 > 0:08:40Virtue was Kate's eldest sister and Amy was soon able to establish

0:08:40 > 0:08:43that she was one of five daughters born to Clara and Edgar Hobbs.

0:08:47 > 0:08:50Interestingly, records reveal that three of these sisters

0:08:50 > 0:08:52worked in domestic service

0:08:52 > 0:08:56and Michael's mother Kate was a kitchen maid.

0:08:56 > 0:08:59The kitchen maid's role was probably the most tiring

0:08:59 > 0:09:04role of any of the staff. She'd often be the first person to get up.

0:09:04 > 0:09:08The kitchen would properly have risen between 4.30 and 5.00

0:09:08 > 0:09:11and she would have then gone around the house before the aristocracy

0:09:11 > 0:09:13were up. This was the key,

0:09:13 > 0:09:17so she wasn't seen and would have started to prepare the fires,

0:09:17 > 0:09:19she would stoke up the stoves,

0:09:19 > 0:09:22and she would draw the curtains as well first thing in the morning.

0:09:22 > 0:09:25After that it would be any job that the cook wanted her to do.

0:09:25 > 0:09:29A good kitchen maid was very hard to find, because a lot of them

0:09:29 > 0:09:30just could not stomach it.

0:09:30 > 0:09:34It was whilst in service that Kate met Walter,

0:09:34 > 0:09:36her future husband and Michael's father.

0:09:36 > 0:09:40He was a footman from a neighbouring house.

0:09:40 > 0:09:43The role of the footman was to support the butler

0:09:43 > 0:09:45and it was a trainee butler, basically.

0:09:45 > 0:09:48Often you would have a first footman and a second footman

0:09:48 > 0:09:51and it was much more impressive in these houses if your first

0:09:51 > 0:09:55and second footman matched, so if they looked very similar,

0:09:55 > 0:09:56if they were of the same height,

0:09:56 > 0:10:00footmen generally tended to come in pairs and they would be there

0:10:00 > 0:10:04helping setting the table, serving at table, bringing the food and the

0:10:04 > 0:10:08drink from the kitchen upstairs and then serving tea and coffee and any

0:10:08 > 0:10:12other food and drink throughout the day and answering the door, as well.

0:10:12 > 0:10:15The role of the footman was very much seen, as opposed

0:10:15 > 0:10:17to the kitchen maid, which was not seen, at all.

0:10:18 > 0:10:22One of the roles of the footman was to polish the silver.

0:10:22 > 0:10:25It's quite a tiring job

0:10:25 > 0:10:28because they would have lot of silver to polish in these houses.

0:10:28 > 0:10:32If an employer found a piece of cutlery or a partridge

0:10:32 > 0:10:37that was not in particularly good condition, then words would be had

0:10:37 > 0:10:41with the butler and the butler would make sure that did not happen again.

0:10:41 > 0:10:44Some employers didn't know what they were looking for but most of

0:10:44 > 0:10:49them can tell a shiny piece of silver from a tarnished piece of silver.

0:10:49 > 0:10:53In 1914, Walter was sent off to war, but he

0:10:53 > 0:10:56and Kate married on his return and when the couple's first child

0:10:56 > 0:10:59was born, her time in service would have ended.

0:10:59 > 0:11:04There was no such thing as a working mother-type thing, as we have today.

0:11:04 > 0:11:07Hopefully, the husband Walter would have moved up the ranks

0:11:07 > 0:11:10and he would have been earning enough to support both of them,

0:11:10 > 0:11:13because obviously Kate would not have been taking a wage,

0:11:13 > 0:11:16but her role would have been to look after the children.

0:11:21 > 0:11:25Having established that one of Kate's sisters had the unusual

0:11:25 > 0:11:28name of Virtue, Amy could now begin tracing her descendants, to see

0:11:28 > 0:11:31if it led her to living heirs.

0:11:31 > 0:11:36Virtue Annie married a gentleman named Hedley Rawlings.

0:11:36 > 0:11:39The surname Rawlings is a fairly common surname,

0:11:39 > 0:11:43but given that it is combined with first names Virtue and Hedley,

0:11:43 > 0:11:48I am pretty confident that the records I've found are correct.

0:11:49 > 0:11:53Next, Amy established that Virtue and Hedley went on to have

0:11:53 > 0:11:56five children who would have been Michael's cousins.

0:11:56 > 0:11:58But all five had died,

0:11:58 > 0:12:01meaning Amy would have to go down another generation.

0:12:01 > 0:12:06Marjorie Ethel Rawlings, born in 1910.

0:12:06 > 0:12:11Now, this again is one of the best name combinations of the five

0:12:11 > 0:12:15children, so we have looked through the marriage records again

0:12:15 > 0:12:18and we can see that Marjorie went on to marry a William Strange.

0:12:18 > 0:12:21The birth indexes indicate that Marjorie

0:12:21 > 0:12:24and her husband William had nine children.

0:12:24 > 0:12:28The team have been able to establish that all nine of these

0:12:28 > 0:12:32children are alive and potential heirs to the £750,000 estate.

0:12:32 > 0:12:36It's now over to travelling researcher Stuart to visit

0:12:36 > 0:12:38these heirs and, hopefully, to sign them up.

0:12:40 > 0:12:44- Hi, Amy!- 'Hello.' - Hi. I've got all the papers.

0:12:44 > 0:12:47Everything's under control.

0:12:47 > 0:12:50But will Stuart's task be as straightforward as he hopes?

0:12:50 > 0:12:54We are very lost, actually. Turn left.

0:12:54 > 0:12:57- SAT-NAV:- Turn right. - Turn right here, do you think?

0:12:57 > 0:13:01I don't think that's saying right here.

0:13:06 > 0:13:10Across the UK, there are thousands of homes lying empty,

0:13:10 > 0:13:13and, in many cases, their owners have passed away with no known

0:13:13 > 0:13:17relatives to inherit property.

0:13:17 > 0:13:20With ownerless houses often becoming derelict and overgrown,

0:13:20 > 0:13:24concerned neighbours sometimes turn to the Heir Hunters for help.

0:13:25 > 0:13:30We find a number of people contact us because of these properties

0:13:30 > 0:13:34lying empty and hope we can find the family.

0:13:34 > 0:13:37This is how senior case manager David Pacifico

0:13:37 > 0:13:42heard about an unclaimed estate in Manchester worth around £100,000.

0:13:48 > 0:13:53Peter Hughes was 81 when he died on 12th August, 2011.

0:13:53 > 0:13:57He had lived alone on a quiet street in Salford, Manchester.

0:13:57 > 0:14:01Debbie Freer was his neighbour for over six years.

0:14:01 > 0:14:05I'd describe Peter as a really friendly old gentleman,

0:14:05 > 0:14:08but he kept himself to himself.

0:14:08 > 0:14:09He'd do his garden,

0:14:09 > 0:14:13and when he was in his garden, he'd say hello to people passing.

0:14:13 > 0:14:17His death came as a shock to all his friends and neighbours.

0:14:17 > 0:14:21People do miss him on the street because people have spoken about him this summer.

0:14:21 > 0:14:24I've talked to the next-door neighbour and the lady across

0:14:24 > 0:14:28the road and the lady next door about Peter only in the last couple of months,

0:14:28 > 0:14:32because people are concerned what's happening to Peter's house.

0:14:32 > 0:14:35Peter wouldn't just let it go to rack and ruin.

0:14:39 > 0:14:42Peter's house sat neglected for two years,

0:14:42 > 0:14:46before one of his neighbours contacted the Heir Hunters.

0:14:46 > 0:14:50Highly-experienced case manager David Pacifico immediately began

0:14:50 > 0:14:53work to track down beneficiaries.

0:14:53 > 0:14:55Because of the property involved,

0:14:55 > 0:15:00they believe that the estate has an estimated value of £100,000.

0:15:00 > 0:15:02But until their research could confirm this,

0:15:02 > 0:15:04the team were taking a gamble.

0:15:05 > 0:15:09We couldn't trace records of his actually owning the property.

0:15:09 > 0:15:12If he was renting,

0:15:12 > 0:15:16we were then possibly looking at much lower value case.

0:15:16 > 0:15:20And the team didn't have a lot to go on.

0:15:20 > 0:15:22The information we had - obviously the address,

0:15:22 > 0:15:25the name of the person, but that was about it.

0:15:25 > 0:15:29So they checked to see if he had been married.

0:15:31 > 0:15:35We believe he died a widower, and also checked to see

0:15:35 > 0:15:38if there were any children born of that marriage

0:15:38 > 0:15:41before we traced the further family.

0:15:41 > 0:15:44The team quickly discover that Peter had no children

0:15:44 > 0:15:46and that he was an only child.

0:15:46 > 0:15:49With no wife, children or siblings, the team would have to look

0:15:49 > 0:15:53to the wider family to have any chance of finding heirs.

0:15:54 > 0:15:56Next step is to identify the parents,

0:15:56 > 0:16:01when they were married, when they died, and also when they were born,

0:16:01 > 0:16:06to find siblings of both the father and of course the mother.

0:16:06 > 0:16:10They would, then, be aunts and uncles of the deceased.

0:16:10 > 0:16:14Peter's parents were Peter Hughes and Elizabeth Williamson.

0:16:14 > 0:16:17They married in 1922 in Salford.

0:16:17 > 0:16:21David began by looking into the paternal side.

0:16:21 > 0:16:24Hughes is quite a common name, more common in Wales.

0:16:24 > 0:16:26It's more of a Welsh name.

0:16:26 > 0:16:29So on that basis, we hoped that the father was English,

0:16:29 > 0:16:31so it would be better to research

0:16:31 > 0:16:35and we then identified a number of siblings of the father.

0:16:35 > 0:16:39Peter's father had six brothers and sisters, and the team began

0:16:39 > 0:16:42the tricky task of tracing all the Hughes siblings,

0:16:42 > 0:16:44to see if any of them had gone on

0:16:44 > 0:16:47to have children, who would be Peter's cousins.

0:16:47 > 0:16:51Can we have a quick look for the parents' deaths, as well?

0:16:51 > 0:16:52David now turned his attention

0:16:52 > 0:16:56to Peter's mother Elizabeth's side of the family.

0:16:56 > 0:17:00Peter's mother Elizabeth, or Lizzie, was born to William

0:17:00 > 0:17:03and Margaret Ann Williamson in 1898.

0:17:03 > 0:17:06She was one of five children.

0:17:06 > 0:17:10The eldest of the mother's siblings was Henry Williamson,

0:17:10 > 0:17:13who would have been born in 1895.

0:17:13 > 0:17:17So he would have been 19 at the outbreak of the First World War

0:17:17 > 0:17:21and could have fought in the First World War.

0:17:22 > 0:17:25Records show that Peter's uncle, Henry Williamson,

0:17:25 > 0:17:28did fight in the First World War.

0:17:28 > 0:17:32He was on the front line with the King's Royal Rifle Corps.

0:17:33 > 0:17:37He goes with his battalion to France in July, 1915,

0:17:37 > 0:17:42and he remains there until he's wounded in September, 1917.

0:17:42 > 0:17:44So, he has almost a year and a half

0:17:44 > 0:17:47when he's in and out of the front line.

0:17:47 > 0:17:51He takes part in two major battles, Loos, in the autumn of 1915,

0:17:51 > 0:17:55and he's right at the centre of the Battle of the Somme.

0:17:59 > 0:18:02The Battle of the Somme is characterised by high casualties,

0:18:02 > 0:18:0560,000 killed and wounded on the first day alone.

0:18:08 > 0:18:12These levels continue right through to November.

0:18:12 > 0:18:15So, Henry Williamson, a young man in his early 20s,

0:18:15 > 0:18:19is trying to come to terms with seeing his comrades killed,

0:18:19 > 0:18:21wounded, trying to stay alive,

0:18:21 > 0:18:25defending himself against German counterattacks.

0:18:25 > 0:18:28Frontline fighting clearly took its toll on the young man,

0:18:28 > 0:18:31as he was diagnosed with shell shock.

0:18:31 > 0:18:34Typically, shell shock manifests itself in fatigue,

0:18:34 > 0:18:38exhaustion, joint pains, sometimes chest pain, as well,

0:18:38 > 0:18:43difficulty breathing, nervousness, difficulty sleeping.

0:18:43 > 0:18:47So, the combination means that the front line soldier can't do his job.

0:18:48 > 0:18:51Henry was sent to hospital for treatment.

0:18:51 > 0:18:54Shell shock is treated in a variety of ways.

0:18:54 > 0:18:57Psychologically-minded doctors who've got experience

0:18:57 > 0:19:00of the front line will treat men with respect,

0:19:00 > 0:19:01with appropriate treatment

0:19:01 > 0:19:04and understand what they're going through. Some of the high-ranking

0:19:04 > 0:19:07officers, who haven't necessarily been in the front line,

0:19:07 > 0:19:09will adopt a much more rigorous,

0:19:09 > 0:19:12tough line, and say that to what extent is

0:19:12 > 0:19:16the shell shock actually cowardice or people shirking duty?

0:19:16 > 0:19:19The treatments they're looking towards are much more punishment

0:19:19 > 0:19:20and military discipline,

0:19:20 > 0:19:24so there's a split in the army, as the appropriate way

0:19:24 > 0:19:26to deal with these nerve-damaged troops.

0:19:26 > 0:19:30Treatment is simplified because the army wants to return

0:19:30 > 0:19:33as many men to duty as quickly as possible.

0:19:33 > 0:19:37So it's rest, sleep, encouragement, good food,

0:19:37 > 0:19:41and then graduated physical exercise, to encourage the man

0:19:41 > 0:19:45back to duty, to get him functioning in a physical

0:19:45 > 0:19:48and mental sense as a frontline soldier.

0:19:48 > 0:19:51Henry didn't recover enough to return to the battlefield

0:19:51 > 0:19:54and was discharged from the army before the end of the war.

0:20:01 > 0:20:04In the office, the team discovered that, after the war,

0:20:04 > 0:20:07Peter's uncle Henry returned to Manchester, where he married

0:20:07 > 0:20:11and had six children, all of whom were potential heirs to the estate.

0:20:13 > 0:20:18From the birth records, we identified any children of the name

0:20:18 > 0:20:21Williamson with the mother's maiden name, in this case Roberts.

0:20:21 > 0:20:24However, it is possibly quite a common combination.

0:20:25 > 0:20:28We know they got married in Salford

0:20:28 > 0:20:31and the chances are any children would be born in Salford,

0:20:31 > 0:20:36so we wouldn't look at any children with that combination of surname

0:20:36 > 0:20:38that might have been born, say, in London,

0:20:38 > 0:20:42because there's obviously a number of marriages of Williamson

0:20:42 > 0:20:44that married Roberts.

0:20:44 > 0:20:47So the family we found were all, I believe, born in Salford.

0:20:50 > 0:20:52The couple had six children in total -

0:20:52 > 0:20:55one boy, Henry, and five girls.

0:20:55 > 0:20:58David quickly found one of the daughters, Iris,

0:20:58 > 0:21:00who would've been Peter's cousin.

0:21:00 > 0:21:03She was still alive and still living in Salford.

0:21:05 > 0:21:09I remember Peter, but only because he was older.

0:21:09 > 0:21:12I don't remember him as a child.

0:21:12 > 0:21:15I've not really seen that much of him.

0:21:15 > 0:21:20The only recollection that I have of actually seeing him

0:21:20 > 0:21:22was after my father died

0:21:22 > 0:21:26and he brought a Christmas card round here for my mother.

0:21:26 > 0:21:30I remember, as he walked off the path,

0:21:30 > 0:21:33thinking how much like my dad he was.

0:21:33 > 0:21:37This is my cousin, Peter Hughes,

0:21:37 > 0:21:39and his wife, June.

0:21:39 > 0:21:44As far as I know, they always lived with Auntie Lizzie and Uncle Peter.

0:21:46 > 0:21:50With their first heirs signed up, the team were making good progress.

0:21:50 > 0:21:53But they still had many more beneficiaries to trace,

0:21:53 > 0:21:57and at this stage they still had no idea of the true value

0:21:57 > 0:21:58of the estate.

0:21:58 > 0:22:02In fact, the team would have to wait several months to find out

0:22:02 > 0:22:07if the case really was worth the £100,000 they'd estimated.

0:22:07 > 0:22:11We have to try and find some paperwork that will justify

0:22:11 > 0:22:14that this is actually his home.

0:22:21 > 0:22:26While the Treasury Solicitor publishes a list of new cases every day,

0:22:26 > 0:22:28the Heir Hunters can't always find the vital clues

0:22:28 > 0:22:31that lead them to entitled relatives.

0:22:31 > 0:22:34These cases remain on the government's unclaimed list

0:22:34 > 0:22:35for up to 30 years.

0:22:35 > 0:22:38When the new cases are brought to me,

0:22:38 > 0:22:40we make any enquiries that we can make to find kin.

0:22:40 > 0:22:44Then, if we can't find kin, they're then put onto the website

0:22:44 > 0:22:48so that people can come forward and claim estates they're entitled to.

0:22:48 > 0:22:51Today, we have details of two unclaimed estates

0:22:51 > 0:22:53where heirs are yet to be found.

0:22:53 > 0:22:57Do you have information that could help solve either of these cases?

0:22:57 > 0:23:00The first is Ann Patricia Barnes,

0:23:00 > 0:23:05who died on ninth January in 2009 in Hampstead, London.

0:23:05 > 0:23:08However, she hadn't lived all her life in the capital.

0:23:08 > 0:23:11She was originally from Coventry,

0:23:11 > 0:23:15born there on 25th February, 1942.

0:23:15 > 0:23:19She had been married, but at the time of her death she was a widow.

0:23:19 > 0:23:21Her maiden name was Ladbrook,

0:23:21 > 0:23:24and she also used the name Annie Barnes.

0:23:24 > 0:23:27Despite all this information, there's been no success

0:23:27 > 0:23:31in tracing beneficiaries to her estate.

0:23:31 > 0:23:35The second case s Mary Ann Margaret Wraight.

0:23:35 > 0:23:38She died a widow on 17th September, 1997,

0:23:38 > 0:23:40in Kenton, Middlesex.

0:23:40 > 0:23:42She was of Irish descent

0:23:42 > 0:23:47as she was born in Ireland on 27th August, 1916.

0:23:47 > 0:23:49Her maiden name was Simpson

0:23:49 > 0:23:53and she also used the name Molly Simpson-Wraight.

0:23:53 > 0:23:55Both Ann and Mary's estates remain unclaimed.

0:23:55 > 0:23:59However, there is hope beneficiaries could still be found.

0:23:59 > 0:24:03If someone is aware of an unclaimed estate that they don't believe

0:24:03 > 0:24:05somebody else's already dealing with,

0:24:05 > 0:24:07they can give us a ring

0:24:07 > 0:24:10and we'll talk them through how to refer the case to us.

0:24:10 > 0:24:13Do either of these people ring a bell to you?

0:24:13 > 0:24:16Could you be the relative the Heir Hunters are looking for?

0:24:16 > 0:24:20If so, you could be entitled to thousands of pounds.

0:24:25 > 0:24:31Retired pub landlord Michael Naish died a bachelor in 2011.

0:24:31 > 0:24:35He hadn't made a will, but, having inherited the family home

0:24:35 > 0:24:39in Oxfordshire, his estate was worth in excess of £750,000.

0:24:41 > 0:24:44Having been told there were probably no maternal heirs,

0:24:44 > 0:24:48Amy Louise Moyes and her team have actually traced

0:24:48 > 0:24:49multiple family members

0:24:49 > 0:24:52who should be entitled to a share of the estate.

0:24:53 > 0:24:58I was expecting the deceased's mother to be an only child, as suggested.

0:24:58 > 0:25:01So when it turned out that she was actually one of nine,

0:25:01 > 0:25:04it was surprising to say the least.

0:25:04 > 0:25:08Two days after the team began working on the case in the office,

0:25:08 > 0:25:10it's now up to researcher Stuart to visit

0:25:10 > 0:25:13these potential heirs and hopefully sign them up with the company.

0:25:15 > 0:25:18It's more than likely they've never heard of the person.

0:25:18 > 0:25:21It's quite interesting with families.

0:25:21 > 0:25:24But they're obviously quite hopeful

0:25:24 > 0:25:26there's some money in the pipeline.

0:25:26 > 0:25:29Stuart is one of several researchers that the company

0:25:29 > 0:25:32employ to travel around the country visiting heirs.

0:25:32 > 0:25:36He may be asked to collect certificates from register offices

0:25:36 > 0:25:38and speak to neighbours to try to paint

0:25:38 > 0:25:40the picture of somebody who has passed away,

0:25:40 > 0:25:44and to find any family collections they may know about.

0:25:44 > 0:25:47But whatever the challenge, it's clearly a job he loves.

0:25:49 > 0:25:51I'm a people's person, really.

0:25:51 > 0:25:55I find people extremely interesting, and it is surprising,

0:25:55 > 0:25:57some of the people you come across.

0:25:59 > 0:26:02They're shocked and it's very sad,

0:26:02 > 0:26:06and then suddenly it might not be sad if they didn't like the person...

0:26:06 > 0:26:08It's very interesting.

0:26:08 > 0:26:11Stuart's first port of call today is to Marion.

0:26:11 > 0:26:14Her mother, Marjorie, was Michael's cousin.

0:26:14 > 0:26:18Hello, I'm Stuart. Lovely to see you.

0:26:18 > 0:26:21So she should be due a share of his estate.

0:26:21 > 0:26:25Basically, we're trying to get the estate sorted out.

0:26:25 > 0:26:28Stuart must run through some family details with Marion

0:26:28 > 0:26:31to make sure their research is correct.

0:26:31 > 0:26:34And as Marion is a keen amateur genealogist,

0:26:34 > 0:26:36his job is made a lot easier.

0:26:36 > 0:26:40- This is going back to my dad's side, William.- Mm, yeah..

0:26:40 > 0:26:45Then his father, George. It goes on to the Rawlings. Henry.

0:26:45 > 0:26:46A few things down here.

0:26:46 > 0:26:52Having established that Marion is definitely an entitled heir,

0:26:52 > 0:26:54Stuart gets down to business and explains that,

0:26:54 > 0:26:58in return for an agreed percentage of her inheritance,

0:26:58 > 0:27:01the company will act on her behalf when she makes her claim.

0:27:01 > 0:27:03Marion is happy with the agreement,

0:27:03 > 0:27:05and the company have their first heir.

0:27:05 > 0:27:09If you could put your birth certificate into the envelope

0:27:09 > 0:27:13- and send it off, that would be great. OK, lovely to meet you.- Thank you.

0:27:13 > 0:27:16- Safe journey.- Bye, Ken, bye.

0:27:16 > 0:27:18Thank you, Stuart.

0:27:18 > 0:27:21His next appointment is with Marion's brother, Tony.

0:27:21 > 0:27:25But getting to him may be easier said than done.

0:27:25 > 0:27:28We are very lost, actually.

0:27:28 > 0:27:31- SAT NAV:- Turn left, then turn right.

0:27:31 > 0:27:34Look at the midges. Turn left.

0:27:34 > 0:27:37- 'Turn right.' - Turn right here, do we?

0:27:39 > 0:27:42I don't think that's saying right here. I think...

0:27:42 > 0:27:47I just feel I'd better go up a bit.

0:27:47 > 0:27:49I might be wrong.

0:27:49 > 0:27:52'Arriving at destination on left.'

0:27:52 > 0:27:57It's garages or something, a white garage.

0:28:03 > 0:28:08But with a £750,000 estate at stake, there's no time to lose.

0:28:08 > 0:28:10Oh, there he is!

0:28:12 > 0:28:15Hello there.

0:28:15 > 0:28:19Stuart runs through the same process as with Marion.

0:28:19 > 0:28:23I'm sorry to say Michael James Naish,

0:28:23 > 0:28:27- a nephew of your grandmother, so it's your first cousin...- No.

0:28:27 > 0:28:29- You don't know.- No.

0:28:29 > 0:28:32YAPPING

0:28:32 > 0:28:35Now, this is for you. I need you to sign there.

0:28:36 > 0:28:39And Tony is also happy to sign.

0:28:39 > 0:28:42The news of this inheritance has come as a huge surprise.

0:28:42 > 0:28:46Thank you very much. Goodbye. Goodbye.

0:28:46 > 0:28:50But Tony has already earmarked a good use for any money

0:28:50 > 0:28:51that comes his way.

0:28:53 > 0:28:56I think he was my first cousin,

0:28:56 > 0:28:59but I never met him or anything.

0:28:59 > 0:29:01So this is out of the blue.

0:29:01 > 0:29:04I'm going to be a great-grandfather soon.

0:29:04 > 0:29:10Me granddaughter, well, I always try and help her, as well.

0:29:10 > 0:29:14Yeah, because they're struggling paying their way and all that.

0:29:16 > 0:29:18It's been a very successful day for Stuart,

0:29:18 > 0:29:20and with two heirs signed up,

0:29:20 > 0:29:24the company are well on their way to completing this case.

0:29:24 > 0:29:26A few days later in the office,

0:29:26 > 0:29:29and case manager Amy has now finished her research

0:29:29 > 0:29:31into the estate of Michael Naish.

0:29:31 > 0:29:34She and her team have managed to trace every maternal heir,

0:29:34 > 0:29:37and their search has gone far and wide.

0:29:39 > 0:29:42With a total of eight branches to look at,

0:29:42 > 0:29:45two or three of these branches ended up overseas,

0:29:45 > 0:29:50several in New Zealand and several also in Australia.

0:29:50 > 0:29:54We managed to identify and locate all of those overseas beneficiaries

0:29:54 > 0:29:59and our representatives went on to sign them up for us.

0:30:00 > 0:30:05All in all, we have identified 44 maternal beneficiaries.

0:30:07 > 0:30:12Another maternal heir traced by the team was John.

0:30:12 > 0:30:16His mum Dorothy was a sister of Michael's mum Kate.

0:30:16 > 0:30:19John recalls meeting Michael on various family gatherings.

0:30:21 > 0:30:27I first met Michael in '53, and I would have been about 26.

0:30:27 > 0:30:34There was just my auntie Kit, uncle Walter and the two boys, Gerald,

0:30:34 > 0:30:38who was the oldest, and Michael, the youngest.

0:30:38 > 0:30:43They seemed a very friendly lot and I was delighted to meet them.

0:30:43 > 0:30:47He had fond memories of playing with the brothers.

0:30:47 > 0:30:50I would say that Michael...

0:30:52 > 0:30:57..was the quieter of the two brothers, and...

0:31:00 > 0:31:04..struck me as being the studious kind.

0:31:06 > 0:31:11I can remember Gerald digging up worms, so that I could go fishing.

0:31:11 > 0:31:14It wasn't quite so much Michael.

0:31:14 > 0:31:21He might supervise, but it was Gerald who managed to find a few.

0:31:23 > 0:31:26And I didn't really do justice to them,

0:31:26 > 0:31:31because I fished all day and had to, in the end,

0:31:31 > 0:31:34wriggle the worm off the hook,

0:31:34 > 0:31:38which I wasn't very happy about, at that time.

0:31:40 > 0:31:45Sadly, the cousins lost touch and never saw each other again.

0:31:45 > 0:31:51After we had lost touch, we didn't really exchange any letters

0:31:51 > 0:31:57other than Christmas cards, which, in hindsight...

0:31:59 > 0:32:00..is rather regretful.

0:32:00 > 0:32:04John now wishes things could have been different.

0:32:04 > 0:32:10If we were fortunate enough to have been living closer together,

0:32:10 > 0:32:14I'm sure that we would have got on extremely well

0:32:14 > 0:32:17and would probably have met up more often.

0:32:19 > 0:32:24I only regret that, in his passing, that we hadn't known each other

0:32:24 > 0:32:27a bit closer in these recent years,

0:32:27 > 0:32:35as I'm sure that we could have made a difference to each of our lives.

0:32:35 > 0:32:39That will always be a regret, as far as I'm concerned.

0:32:44 > 0:32:47The heir hunters were investigating the case of Peter Hughes

0:32:47 > 0:32:50after they'd received a call from a member of the public,

0:32:50 > 0:32:54who had become concerned about a house that had been abandoned.

0:32:54 > 0:32:57Friend and neighbour Debbie remembers Peter well.

0:32:58 > 0:33:01For an elderly gentleman, he was rather tall, upright,

0:33:01 > 0:33:05silver haired, well-kept for his age.

0:33:07 > 0:33:10With the estate estimated at £100,000, the team had thrown

0:33:10 > 0:33:15all their resources into cracking this case ahead of any competition.

0:33:15 > 0:33:19So far, they'd found 16 beneficiaries on the paternal side.

0:33:20 > 0:33:22One of Peter's heirs, Iris,

0:33:22 > 0:33:26was able to offer a fascinating insight into her cousin.

0:33:27 > 0:33:32As we were growing up, I heard he was a conscientious objector.

0:33:35 > 0:33:39A conscientious objector normally means someone who has refused to be

0:33:39 > 0:33:43conscripted into the military and some people conscientiously object

0:33:43 > 0:33:47to other things besides that, but in a normal context, it is someone who

0:33:47 > 0:33:50refuses to kill somebody else and be trained to kill somebody else.

0:33:52 > 0:33:55The term "conscientious objector", or CO,

0:33:55 > 0:33:59was initially used during the First World War, when men were

0:33:59 > 0:34:02allowed to appeal against conscription into military service,

0:34:02 > 0:34:06on the grounds of occupation, hardship, faith or moral beliefs.

0:34:06 > 0:34:12This was not an easy path to choose, and many in society judged COs or

0:34:12 > 0:34:17conchies, as they were also known, harshly, branding them as cowards.

0:34:17 > 0:34:20They were forced to face a tribunal, who would decide their fate.

0:34:23 > 0:34:27One possibility was to be given a complete exemption.

0:34:27 > 0:34:31In other words, the tribunal you were up before would say you did

0:34:31 > 0:34:34not have to do anything, you were not given any orders at all,

0:34:34 > 0:34:37you did not have to join the military or do any directed work, at all.

0:34:37 > 0:34:41More commonly, people were given another alternative.

0:34:41 > 0:34:43They were told, you can avoid being in the forces,

0:34:43 > 0:34:48but you do have to do labour, work which is thought to be of national

0:34:48 > 0:34:52importance, or towards the war effort, or is in some way valuable.

0:34:52 > 0:34:55Obviously, that could vary, according to the tribunal.

0:34:55 > 0:34:58Obviously, there was a fourth option, that people were

0:34:58 > 0:35:01turned down altogether and people didn't get any option.

0:35:01 > 0:35:03People told, tough - in you go.

0:35:04 > 0:35:07But the consequences could be far more severe than simply being

0:35:07 > 0:35:09forced to go into battle.

0:35:09 > 0:35:12If they were genuine COs, which most of them who applied were,

0:35:12 > 0:35:16they would then end up being punished for it and they might be locked up.

0:35:16 > 0:35:19In the First World War, some of them were sentenced to death.

0:35:19 > 0:35:21And even when the war was over,

0:35:21 > 0:35:25being a conscientious objector was not forgotten.

0:35:25 > 0:35:29I imagine people who had been COs were probably treated

0:35:29 > 0:35:33after the war in a similar way as during the war.

0:35:33 > 0:35:35Some people would have hated them for it

0:35:35 > 0:35:37and other people would have been very sympathetic.

0:35:37 > 0:35:40Clearly, if you are in a situation post-war where the economic

0:35:40 > 0:35:43situation is such that there aren't enough jobs to go around,

0:35:43 > 0:35:44which is something that happens

0:35:44 > 0:35:47when there are lots of people demobbed and the economic situation

0:35:47 > 0:35:50changes, then you may be at the bottom of the queue to get a job

0:35:50 > 0:35:54sometimes, and, clearly, people are going to be prejudiced against you.

0:35:54 > 0:35:58During the Second World War, Peter told his family

0:35:58 > 0:36:00he planned to be a CO.

0:36:00 > 0:36:03Fortunately, the war ended when he was 15,

0:36:03 > 0:36:05so still too young to be conscripted.

0:36:05 > 0:36:09He went on to carve out a successful career as a joiner,

0:36:09 > 0:36:12and carried on this trade until he died.

0:36:12 > 0:36:15Peter's cousin, Iris, had one sibling still alive,

0:36:15 > 0:36:18who was also a beneficiary of Peter's estate.

0:36:19 > 0:36:22All the other brothers and sisters had died,

0:36:22 > 0:36:25so their estates automatically passed down to their children.

0:36:26 > 0:36:30One of them is Lynne, the daughter of Peter's cousin Henry,

0:36:30 > 0:36:33and granddaughter to Henry Williamson Senior,

0:36:33 > 0:36:37who had suffered from shellshock after fighting on the front line

0:36:37 > 0:36:38during the First World War.

0:36:40 > 0:36:42I'd never heard of Peter Hughes.

0:36:42 > 0:36:47It's fascinating to see where he fit into the rest of the family.

0:36:47 > 0:36:50Lynne was unaware of her father's wider family, as he never

0:36:50 > 0:36:53really mentioned it when he was alive,

0:36:53 > 0:36:56focusing more on his everyday family life.

0:36:56 > 0:36:58My dad kept to himself.

0:36:58 > 0:37:01Like his father, he kept himself a lot to himself,

0:37:01 > 0:37:04but he was one of those people that had to be earning to put

0:37:04 > 0:37:08food on the table, so he did a vast number of jobs.

0:37:08 > 0:37:11In the early days, he worked on the railways.

0:37:11 > 0:37:13That's before I was born, I believe.

0:37:15 > 0:37:17After that, he did markets,

0:37:17 > 0:37:21and he became what they used to call a commercial traveller.

0:37:21 > 0:37:25So he would go to Yorkshire and places like that, selling...

0:37:27 > 0:37:31..from memory, I think it was some sort of clothing.

0:37:32 > 0:37:36The call from the heir hunters has introduced Lynne to a side of her

0:37:36 > 0:37:38family she never knew about.

0:37:38 > 0:37:41I spoke to one of my aunties and went down a totally different

0:37:41 > 0:37:46line, so it's very nice today to find out who Peter Hughes was.

0:37:46 > 0:37:53I'm really stuck between feeling for him, because he is no longer

0:37:53 > 0:37:56here, and wanting to know what he was like and who he was.

0:37:56 > 0:37:58It is a double-edged sword,

0:37:58 > 0:38:01because, one, it's very nice to receive some money,

0:38:01 > 0:38:04but on the other hand, you know that somebody has died

0:38:04 > 0:38:07to do that, and I wish I had known him.

0:38:11 > 0:38:14For David and the team in the office,

0:38:14 > 0:38:18the family research was almost complete.

0:38:18 > 0:38:22- Do you need anyone to give you a hand on that?- I think we said yes.

0:38:24 > 0:38:27We've chased round about 25 heirs.

0:38:27 > 0:38:28David, was it?

0:38:28 > 0:38:32'But I would imagine there could be another 10 or 15,'

0:38:32 > 0:38:34possibly even more than that.

0:38:36 > 0:38:39In addition to the six heirs they found on the maternal side,

0:38:39 > 0:38:42they'd also cracked the trickier Hughes side of the family,

0:38:42 > 0:38:46and found a further 17 heir - and still counting.

0:38:46 > 0:38:50But having put hours of valuable manpower into solving this case,

0:38:50 > 0:38:52one important question remained.

0:38:54 > 0:38:56Did Peter own his house

0:38:56 > 0:39:00and was the case worth the original estimate of £100,000?

0:39:06 > 0:39:09It's now 11 months since the team first began

0:39:09 > 0:39:12their investigations into this case, and Andrew Fraser, one

0:39:12 > 0:39:16of the partners of the firm, is on his way to Peter's home, to see if

0:39:16 > 0:39:20there are any documents that could confirm who owned the property.

0:39:22 > 0:39:26We have to try to find some paperwork that will justify that this is

0:39:26 > 0:39:30actually his home, and he's not renting a property.

0:39:31 > 0:39:33A house visit like this is an important part

0:39:33 > 0:39:37of administering an estate, a process which can go on for

0:39:37 > 0:39:41months and years after the initial work to trace the heirs is complete.

0:39:41 > 0:39:44Andrew will also have to make a thorough search for any other

0:39:44 > 0:39:48important documents, apart from confirmation of the house ownership.

0:39:50 > 0:39:53Unfortunately, there is also the very high risk that we could find

0:39:53 > 0:39:56information which shows there is a will,

0:39:56 > 0:40:00or that he actually doesn't have any assets that will make up his estate.

0:40:00 > 0:40:03In which case, the 20 or 30 heirs

0:40:03 > 0:40:07and beneficiaries we've hoped would inherit something

0:40:07 > 0:40:12will actually end up with nothing, and our work will be unpaid for.

0:40:12 > 0:40:15So a lot is resting on Andrew's visit.

0:40:18 > 0:40:21It's quite run-down, the house, in general terms.

0:40:22 > 0:40:26It's clearly a gentleman who's been living on his own here for some time.

0:40:28 > 0:40:30So, now our job is to go through every cupboard

0:40:30 > 0:40:33and try to find some deeds to the house,

0:40:33 > 0:40:37or even some indication that he would have owned it, such as insurance.

0:40:39 > 0:40:44From years of experience, Andrew knows just what he's looking for.

0:40:44 > 0:40:48Deeds tend to be in a brown envelope of about A4 size,

0:40:48 > 0:40:51so that's what we're looking for. If I find those,

0:40:51 > 0:40:56I suspect any other important documents will also be with them.

0:40:56 > 0:40:57But despite his diligence,

0:40:57 > 0:41:02the missing documents are stubbornly refusing to reveal themselves.

0:41:02 > 0:41:03Until...

0:41:06 > 0:41:11In the bottom of this wardrobe, I've found a false floor.

0:41:11 > 0:41:13I lifted it up and I found some boxes.

0:41:19 > 0:41:22Could this secret stash of information be just what

0:41:22 > 0:41:24Andrew is looking for?

0:41:27 > 0:41:32This is the title documentation, dated 26 September, 1933.

0:41:33 > 0:41:37These are the documents that prove the house is owned by Mr Hughes.

0:41:39 > 0:41:41This is good news.

0:41:41 > 0:41:43I found here some very important documents,

0:41:43 > 0:41:48and I would expect all important documents to therefore be together.

0:41:49 > 0:41:52And I haven't found any will.

0:41:52 > 0:41:56Andrew also picks up a few pieces of family memorabilia.

0:41:56 > 0:42:01All the family normally ask for photos. That's what they want.

0:42:01 > 0:42:02By having some photos,

0:42:02 > 0:42:05we can at least share them between the family and they get

0:42:05 > 0:42:09to have some insight about where their inheritance is coming from.

0:42:09 > 0:42:14So, for Andrew, it's been a successful visit to Peter's house.

0:42:15 > 0:42:18We've been lucky enough that the house hasn't had too much

0:42:18 > 0:42:21content in it, so we've been able to go through it fairly quickly

0:42:21 > 0:42:25and also have good confidence to know we've been through everything.

0:42:25 > 0:42:28We found a couple of bank accounts, some shares.

0:42:28 > 0:42:32Most importantly, we found the deeds to the house,

0:42:32 > 0:42:38to show that this was the family home and it does belong to Mr Hughes

0:42:38 > 0:42:41himself or his late mother or late father.

0:42:45 > 0:42:48And it's a huge relief to all the team who put hours of research

0:42:48 > 0:42:51into solving this case that potentially could

0:42:51 > 0:42:53have been for little or no return.

0:42:55 > 0:42:59The work of finding the 30-plus beneficiaries, some in the West

0:42:59 > 0:43:02Country, some in Wales, some in the North East, is actually all

0:43:02 > 0:43:06going to come together, and they will inherit something

0:43:06 > 0:43:09and this house is worth a fair amount of money,

0:43:09 > 0:43:13although it will be divided by an awful lot.