:00:03. > :00:08.Nowhere has been hit harder by the economic crisis than here, the
:00:08. > :00:12.North East and Cumbria. Two years of austerity has cost tens of
:00:12. > :00:16.thousands of people their jobs and put the squeeze on family incomes.
:00:16. > :00:19.Where will the jobs of the future come from? And can we find the
:00:19. > :00:29.skills - and the entrepreneurs - to get this region's economy back on
:00:29. > :00:46.
:00:46. > :00:51.track? I'm Victoria Derbyshire - welcome to the Look North Debate.
:00:51. > :00:55.Hello. Our audience this evening comes from right across the North
:00:55. > :00:58.East and Cumbria - and each has their own story to tell about the
:00:58. > :01:01.economic crisis. Unemployment in the North East fell last month, but
:01:01. > :01:05.it's still the highest in Britain. It's particularly tough for
:01:05. > :01:15.youngsters with one in ten on the dole. But there's another group -
:01:15. > :01:22.
:01:22. > :01:26.the over 50s - who fear they may never work again. I have worked
:01:26. > :01:33.here for 37 years. Never thought for one minute I would be finished
:01:33. > :01:40.at the drop of the hat. There was another 125 people on the same day.
:01:40. > :01:45.You think, "All them years "and it just took a minute. It is not a
:01:45. > :01:48.good time to look for a job. Every Thursday I meet with the lads that
:01:48. > :01:54.were finished the same day as me. You need it to keep you going. They
:01:54. > :01:59.are in the same position as you and they need help just as much as you.
:01:59. > :02:06.The job offers aren't there. They are telling you to look for work.
:02:07. > :02:11.There's thousands upon thousands doing the same. Where do I go? The
:02:11. > :02:19.last interview I was at, there were two other young lads there. They
:02:19. > :02:22.looked like two school kids. What I want to know is, am I on the
:02:22. > :02:30.employment scrapheap? Alan, you can relate to what
:02:30. > :02:34.happened to Eddie? Yes. I was sacked by AEI Cables, a minute's
:02:34. > :02:39.notice. How many minutes? minute. I was told, "You are
:02:39. > :02:44.finished, there's your letter, leave the premises now." It was
:02:44. > :02:49.called a CVA, which you will be finding out a lot more of in the
:02:49. > :02:59.near future. Do you feel you are on the scrapheap? I do. I'm a single
:02:59. > :03:05.parent. I'm finding it hard to get a job. I would love a job. My house
:03:05. > :03:13.is paid for. I was saving up for the biggest holiday of my life when
:03:13. > :03:19.I got to 65. Eddie, you are 61. You had worked there for 37 years. What
:03:19. > :03:22.is it like when that is taken away from you? It is such a shock. You
:03:22. > :03:29.don't expect it. At least if they are going to sack you, you would
:03:29. > :03:35.think they would do it in a better way, like, have some morales and
:03:35. > :03:39.explain why. There was nothing. Some might say you are about to
:03:39. > :03:44.reach retirement anyway? Unemployment is at a 17-year high
:03:44. > :03:49.at the minute. They are wanting to sack people at the drop of the hat.
:03:49. > :03:53.They want to make it easier for employers to sack people. They want
:03:53. > :03:58.to make it easier put more on the dole, which is a strain on the
:03:58. > :04:03.economy. All I can hear is, "We have to find jobs for the youth."
:04:03. > :04:08.There's thousands of people my age who haven't got a job. James is 23
:04:08. > :04:12.and you are a qualified bricklayer. How long have you been out of work
:04:12. > :04:16.for? Just under three year. many jobs have you applied for in
:04:16. > :04:21.that time? A couple of hundred. Have you had an interview?
:04:21. > :04:27.Nothing? No. I have had a work trial and that was it. That's all I
:04:27. > :04:31.have had. Do you think it is worse for you, or for gentlemen like Alan
:04:31. > :04:35.and Eddie? I can understand his point where he's coming from. What
:04:35. > :04:43.can we do? We have no support from the Government, have we? Especially
:04:43. > :04:46.people my age. Mickey, you would say you were at the end of your
:04:46. > :04:51.tether? Definitely. I'm a bricklayer as well. I have been
:04:51. > :04:55.applying for ten jobs nearly every day, going down London. I have
:04:55. > :04:59.given myself six to eight month. I'm going to go to Australia, I
:04:59. > :05:05.think, if I can't get no work. If I do get work, it is only for a
:05:05. > :05:09.couple of weeks. I cannot get my own place because there is no work
:05:09. > :05:15.at all. You would consider leaving this country and going thousands of
:05:15. > :05:22.miles... I'm going to. If I haven't got a permanent job, I have got my
:05:22. > :05:26.visa so it will happen. You can't blame him. He hasn't got a choice.
:05:26. > :05:30.The worst thing is, you end up in situation where you have a 23-year-
:05:30. > :05:34.old sat there who can't get a job, who has been trying for three years
:05:34. > :05:39.already. These older guys here who have still got a good few years
:05:39. > :05:43.work left in them and, again, they think that that is it, life is over
:05:43. > :05:49.work-wise. There is no way we are going to be able to keep youth like
:05:49. > :05:54.that in this country if they can see a future like this. Let us
:05:54. > :05:58.retire early at 60 and give the jobs to the youngsters. It would be
:05:58. > :06:01.a better country to live in. This country is going to the dogs.
:06:01. > :06:06.me as well, I already know people in Australia that have got work
:06:06. > :06:12.there and they are getting twice as much more money as me labouring and
:06:12. > :06:17.I'm doing a trade here. I cannot make a living. How will he get a
:06:17. > :06:21.job with no experience? You cannot get one. Particularly with me, I
:06:21. > :06:27.feel as if there is too much competition. If I haven't had a
:06:27. > :06:33.foot in the door work, there is them who have had over 20 years'
:06:33. > :06:40.experience, who will they take? will be cheaper! That is the honest
:06:40. > :06:44.truth. He is right. Last year I applied for a job. The foreman told
:06:44. > :06:48.me 380 people had applied for that one job and within two months the
:06:48. > :06:54.company went under. He is right what he is saying there. There's
:06:54. > :07:02.that many people applying for jobs. You cannot get a decent job. What
:07:02. > :07:07.do you do? I run a food bank. is a food bank? We provide free
:07:07. > :07:11.food to people who find themselves in a position where they can't
:07:11. > :07:15.afford to feed themselves. But that goes across society. We have single
:07:15. > :07:21.guys like these guys here who come in. They might have spent their
:07:21. > :07:28.dole money chasing after a job in Berkshire, you know, they come back,
:07:28. > :07:33.they have got no dole money or food. The gents on the end there, we have
:07:33. > :07:37.older people who have been made unemployed, they have been sacked
:07:37. > :07:40.and suddenly, their electricity bills go through the roof,
:07:40. > :07:44.everything else goes through the roof. The benefits stay down there
:07:44. > :07:49.and they are finding they have a choice - do they pay the bills or
:07:49. > :07:54.eat? Do families pay their mortgage or do they eat? Tracy, are you
:07:54. > :07:58.facing those choices? Yes, my partner works but he is unemployed
:07:58. > :08:04.at the minute. The work he does, there is no work. We are having to
:08:04. > :08:08.go on benefits. You use the food bank? Yes. We have to. What do
:08:08. > :08:12.people think about the fact we live in one of the richest economies in
:08:12. > :08:18.the world and we have a food bank operating? You can't be proud of
:08:18. > :08:22.that, can you? This has been - the North East had an unemployment
:08:22. > :08:27.problem for a lot of years. food bank has only been going for
:08:27. > :08:31.three weeks? We are now trying to find a way out of the recession. We
:08:31. > :08:40.have to create the jobs for these people to work. What do you think
:08:40. > :08:46.of the fact there is a food bank operating in Darlington? I'm from a
:08:46. > :08:51.charity in Stockton and Sainsbury's provide us with food parcels for -
:08:51. > :08:55.basically, it is an open-door policy. People from the local
:08:55. > :09:00.hostels, homeless people... What would happen to these people if...
:09:00. > :09:05.They would come and get... They would do crime. It is that bad, the
:09:05. > :09:08.ones at the bottom have got nothing and they are having to beg for food.
:09:08. > :09:12.How is the private sector going to pull the public sector out when you
:09:12. > :09:17.are paying the public sector workers off? In terms of why there
:09:17. > :09:23.is a problem, particularly perhaps regarding private versus public,
:09:23. > :09:27.Keith tell us why this region has the highest unemployment in the UK?
:09:27. > :09:32.It's had the highest rate for some considerable time. It's become a
:09:32. > :09:38.cliche, but there are lots of job opportunities lost in a narrow set
:09:38. > :09:45.of industries - coal, steel, shipbuilding - and the region never
:09:45. > :09:50.discovered. -- the region never recovered. The region has always
:09:50. > :09:55.been playing catch-up. In the last few years, the austerity drive from
:09:55. > :09:58.the Government has led to hundreds, thousands of public sector workers
:09:59. > :10:02.being made redundant? One of the measures that the Government
:10:02. > :10:06.brought in to address this issue was to locate some Government
:10:06. > :10:10.departments within regions like the North East to try to soak up some
:10:10. > :10:15.of this unemployment. That has created a dependency on the public
:10:16. > :10:20.sector. One in three jobs are in the public sector. The North East
:10:20. > :10:23.is suffering disproportionately. Had the Labour Party won the last
:10:23. > :10:28.election, that Government would have been making similar cuts in
:10:28. > :10:32.the public sector? Absolutely not. Yes, we had a huge recession and
:10:32. > :10:38.yes, there needed to be cuts to the public sector. But what this
:10:38. > :10:42.Government is doing is it is not only cutting too far and too fast -
:10:42. > :10:47.because we need growth we cannot cut our way out of the crisis. It
:10:47. > :10:51.is cutting the wrong thing. It is cutting the Future Jobs Fund.
:10:51. > :10:57.would have cut jobs in the public sector had you won the last
:10:57. > :11:01.election? We had to make some cuts... Hang on. What is causing
:11:01. > :11:08.the problem here is the level of cuts and the fact also because we
:11:08. > :11:11.have lost 23,000, 32,000 public sector jobs but also 8,000 private
:11:11. > :11:16.sector jobs in the years since the election. That is because the
:11:17. > :11:21.private sector is not being invested in to grow. James, are
:11:21. > :11:28.these public sector jobs a price worth paying? It is very dangerous
:11:28. > :11:32.to start using language like that. Why? No, no... What lies behind
:11:32. > :11:35.jobs figures are individuals who are trying to make the best of
:11:35. > :11:40.their lives. What we all have to do is get the economy in the North
:11:40. > :11:46.East up and running again. There are a lot of good signs to the
:11:46. > :11:51.North East economy. It has a long way to go. Unemployment fell by
:11:51. > :11:57.11,000 in two months. Corus is creating jobs. We have a long way
:11:57. > :12:06.to go. But some of the positive signs are there. We have to
:12:06. > :12:09.encourage private sector growth. We will come back to you. Well,
:12:09. > :12:11.with 53 people chasing every vacancy in parts of the North East
:12:11. > :12:21.it seems incredible that some businesses can't find the staff
:12:21. > :12:30.
:12:30. > :12:36.they need. But that's the case at I have been in manufacturing for 48
:12:36. > :12:42.years. In 2000, we were turning over �4 million. In 2005, we bought
:12:42. > :12:45.the business. This year, we will be doing �15 million. We are involved
:12:45. > :12:49.in defence, pharmaceutical equipment, you name it we have been
:12:49. > :12:53.involved in it. I feel a great deal of pride. We have achieved a lot.
:12:53. > :12:56.We are adding something to the economy in the North East and the
:12:56. > :13:00.country as a whole. We could be taking on 20 skilled people
:13:00. > :13:05.tomorrow, but we can't get the highest skilled people that we need
:13:05. > :13:09.and the result of that is that we have been turning business away.
:13:09. > :13:13.Media Studies, health, leisure, beauty, those degree courses are of
:13:13. > :13:17.no interest to me whatsoever. None of the degrees have been focusing
:13:17. > :13:22.on manufacturing. My key question is what is the education system
:13:22. > :13:29.going to do to accelerate the availability of skilled people to
:13:29. > :13:36.support my growth of my business? Are you producing the wrong
:13:36. > :13:40.trainees from Gateshead College? Peter can't take on the skilled
:13:40. > :13:44.workers? I know. I understand what Peter's problem is. Tell us, what
:13:44. > :13:48.is it? Why can't you solve it? have heard a bit of discussion
:13:48. > :13:53.going around. The interesting thing about the North East - the North
:13:53. > :13:58.East has always been - the very thing that Micky talked about - the
:13:58. > :14:04.thing that happens in the North East when you can't find work, what
:14:04. > :14:11.do you do? You leave. Then when you get an upsurge in the way Peter has,
:14:11. > :14:15.he has not got the high-end workers. It takes two or three years to
:14:15. > :14:23.train those people. Also, the other problem is that people aren't
:14:23. > :14:27.taking on apprenticeships either. Who else is worried about the lack
:14:27. > :14:31.of skills or the wrong kind of skills in the region? One of the
:14:31. > :14:34.problems is that there has been this fetish in Government for
:14:34. > :14:40.having half of the population going to university and the universities
:14:40. > :14:44.have been selling students a lie that there's millions of jobs in
:14:44. > :14:49.Media Studies. That won't happen now that Nick Clegg has decided to
:14:49. > :14:55.raise tuition fees? We need a lot more apprenticeships. That is one
:14:55. > :15:03.thing that people have to realise. There's been a massive amount of no
:15:04. > :15:09.more apprenticeships offered in the North East. Andrew, Andrew's earned
:15:09. > :15:13.an apprenticeship at Caterpillar, a couple of years ago. Last year, ten
:15:13. > :15:19.apprenticeships available and there were 510 applicants. What is so
:15:19. > :15:24.special about you? How did you get it? I don't know. I was lucky, I
:15:24. > :15:27.suppose. I went to sixth form for two-year and aapplied for an
:15:27. > :15:32.apprenticeship. The company was in a position where I could be offered
:15:32. > :15:39.that. That is not the case for everybody. What do you do with
:15:39. > :15:43.those ten... We put the apprentices through a four-year programme. We
:15:43. > :15:47.are looking for the skills that we need. There is a shortage within
:15:47. > :15:50.manufacturing and we are also working in local schools to
:15:50. > :15:56.encourage children that manufacturing is not a dirty and
:15:56. > :16:02.dark and dank place to be. There's skills that you can be had. The
:16:02. > :16:07.earnings potential in gaining a skilled trade, you could get
:16:07. > :16:12.�200,000 by the time you have finished. You moved your customer
:16:12. > :16:16.contact centre from Gloucester to Gateshead, Robert. Why? We had two
:16:16. > :16:22.contact centres. We felt that the service we were getting from the
:16:22. > :16:25.Gateshead one was exemplary in terms of sales, absence - we find
:16:25. > :16:30.the North East workforce the best workforce in the country. Every
:16:30. > :16:34.time we take over a business, we try and create as many North East
:16:34. > :16:38.jobs - 175 North East jobs in the last two years. Was part of the
:16:38. > :16:41.decision to move from Gloucester to do with the fact it is cheaper
:16:41. > :16:46.here? We paid the Newcastle people more than we paid the Gloucester
:16:46. > :16:51.people. That is interesting. Are you worried about the lack of
:16:51. > :16:54.skills? Yes, moving forward, one of the statistics I'm familiar with -
:16:54. > :17:01.there's only 10% of the companies in the manufacturing engineering
:17:01. > :17:07.sector in the North East. There's 4,800 of them take apprentices on.
:17:07. > :17:13.So we sort of - we reap what we sow, really. If we don't invest, we
:17:13. > :17:16.won't have the skills. If you look at offshore on Teesside, there's
:17:16. > :17:22.zero unemployment in offshore skills. We are employing foreigners
:17:22. > :17:27.to come and do jobs on Teesside. Offshore didn't have the foresight
:17:27. > :17:32.to train and educate. That is absurd. There are people here who
:17:32. > :17:37.could do those jobs but you have to bring foreigners in? I would like
:17:37. > :17:42.to pick up on a couple of the points from over there. A question
:17:42. > :17:46.to the economist is, why don't we attract and what is wrong with our
:17:46. > :17:51.reputation that we don't attract more blue ship plcs to come to the
:17:51. > :17:57.region? Nissan, the most production car plant in the world - we operate
:17:58. > :18:04.on Teesside, we have a fantastic workforce. We have still got this
:18:04. > :18:09.stigma, this reputation that the North East is a dull place to work.
:18:09. > :18:15.Our football team has struggled! have to invest in the future. One
:18:15. > :18:19.thing we cannot do. This is where we sometimes fall down. We don't
:18:19. > :18:22.have the infrastructure. We can't build roads or motorways. We can't
:18:22. > :18:26.build those world-class projects, so that is all I ever want
:18:26. > :18:30.Government to do. I don't want Government to support me in
:18:30. > :18:40.training, I don't need that. I can't build a motorway. So when we
:18:40. > :18:41.
:18:41. > :18:50.are saying, "Hell us" we don't want major help. We -- are saying, "Help
:18:50. > :18:55.us", we don't want major help. problem that we have is that when
:18:55. > :18:58.we are facing significant cuts in public services, we do need to look
:18:58. > :19:05.at the investment there is in this region in terms of infrastructure,
:19:05. > :19:09.whether it be road, rail, what other links to the rest of the
:19:09. > :19:15.country. No-one bats for the North East. Keith, where are the jobs of
:19:15. > :19:21.the future going to come? If only I knew. That is why we have booked
:19:21. > :19:25.you! I know. I think it's - to pick up on some of the the other points
:19:25. > :19:30.- it is about Government creating the conditions within which the
:19:30. > :19:34.jobs can be created. Companies aren't looking for hand-outs, they
:19:34. > :19:38.are looking to draw on a stock of reasonably well-educated people
:19:38. > :19:42.that they can train for the specific disciplines that relate to
:19:42. > :19:48.their business. Rather perversely, at this time of economic difficulty,
:19:48. > :19:53.the Government is investing less. So if a company like Amazon wanted
:19:53. > :19:56.to come to this region, completely outbid and outfought by Scotland
:19:56. > :20:03.which has all of the infrastructure to take thousands of businesses
:20:03. > :20:07.north of the border, the region is missing out. It is very important
:20:07. > :20:10.because we all go out and sell the North East. All too often the
:20:10. > :20:17.national picture that is presented of the North East is the negative
:20:17. > :20:23.story. There are a lot of skills and great companies. There are good
:20:23. > :20:29.roads and good infrastructure in this region. When East Coast Trains
:20:29. > :20:33.closed a call centre in Newcastle and moved it to Mumbai a
:20:33. > :20:35.Government-run train operating company, they moved the workers to
:20:36. > :20:42.Mumbai the Conservative Government done nothing about it at all.
:20:42. > :20:52.Nothing about it at all! The point I'm making is... I have to say
:20:52. > :20:57.there is a lot that Government can do. It is important for
:20:57. > :21:00.Government... There is a lot they can be doing. Would the Labour
:21:00. > :21:06.Party require that call centre to re-open now if it was in
:21:06. > :21:10.Government? I bet it wouldn't. It set it up as an arms-length
:21:10. > :21:14.organisation. The Labour Party believes in active Government.
:21:14. > :21:19.Answer the question. Would you make that Government-controlled company
:21:19. > :21:22.re-open that call centre? You are going to privatise it anyway!
:21:22. > :21:26.Exactly. You can't answer for the industrial policy of this
:21:26. > :21:34.Government now and you can expecting me to answer in three
:21:34. > :21:39.years' time? I left school in the '60s. The biggest apprenticeship
:21:39. > :21:44.pool was in the British Coal, the coal industry, the shipbuilding,
:21:44. > :21:49.the steel industry, the railways and they were all nationalised
:21:49. > :21:52.companies. They just churned apprentices out for fun. Now we
:21:52. > :22:00.have privatised all these industries and they are looking for
:22:00. > :22:04.profit and money for shareholders, so apprentices, the easy way out.
:22:04. > :22:09.Let me ask Ian. There is speculation the Chancellor may
:22:09. > :22:14.scrap national pay rates, national pay bargaining so each region could
:22:14. > :22:18.work out its own pay for public sector workers which might bring
:22:18. > :22:24.their pay down so the private sector would be able to match it.
:22:25. > :22:29.Would that be a good idea? You need flexibility. I know colleagues like
:22:29. > :22:32.the big bulk bargaining power. If you want to be flexible, the people
:22:32. > :22:38.that are successful in business are the ones that can move, can change,
:22:38. > :22:42.people can retrain, get into new jobs. They survive. Should it be
:22:42. > :22:46.easier to "hire and fire"? should be. Why? People will take
:22:46. > :22:51.the risk. Not sure how long this job is going to last, but I will
:22:51. > :22:55.give it a go. I can only look at best three or four months in
:22:55. > :22:59.advance so am I going to guarantee somebody a job for life? That
:22:59. > :23:03.employment legislation... You can't do it. That is hampering
:23:03. > :23:07.businesses? Far too easy to dismiss people in this country already. We
:23:07. > :23:11.have some of the weakest employment rights anywhere in Europe. I think
:23:11. > :23:14.it is appalling we have got engaged in a debate that says someone who
:23:14. > :23:18.does a job in Newcastle that is exactly the same as someone who
:23:18. > :23:22.does a job in another part of the country should be paid a lot lower.
:23:22. > :23:26.What we are doing is accepting this area as a low-wage economy if we go
:23:26. > :23:30.down that line. That is bad for all of us. APPLAUSE Is it not true that
:23:30. > :23:35.it is more expensive to live in the South East so why should you not be
:23:35. > :23:41.paid a little bit more in the South East? You will subdue economic
:23:41. > :23:46.development throughout the whole range. How? You are taking out
:23:46. > :23:52.money from the economy. You are saying people in the north are
:23:52. > :23:57.worth less than those in the south. No, you are not. Had I been asked
:23:57. > :24:02.about it, I would have said I had some concerns about getting rid of
:24:02. > :24:06.national pay bargaining. If it is going to be done, we have to make
:24:06. > :24:09.sure it doesn't hit the North East unfairly. I will speak for myself.
:24:09. > :24:14.You can speak for your union members! It is an important point
:24:14. > :24:19.that we need to see investment in this region, we need to see people
:24:20. > :24:23.spend the money they earn in this region. The Government is
:24:23. > :24:30.increasing the lower tax threshold... James, thousands of
:24:30. > :24:35.public sector jobs have been sacrificed on your Government's
:24:35. > :24:39.austerity measures. People who were losing their jobs because they have
:24:39. > :24:43.very few rights... Can I ask you, Craig, why is it fair that the
:24:43. > :24:48.average wage for a public sector worker in the North East of England
:24:48. > :24:53.is 11% higher than the pay for a private sector? Why is it fair?
:24:53. > :24:57.you do the same job, you should get the same pay. That is not happening.
:24:57. > :25:01.If you accept this principle, it is the same as the nonsense argument
:25:01. > :25:05.the Government puts forward in terms of pensions. If you attack
:25:05. > :25:09.public sector pensions, no-one will have pension provision. We have
:25:09. > :25:12.businesses all over the UK. It is a fact in private business life in
:25:12. > :25:16.the South East we have to pay our managers more than we do in the
:25:16. > :25:21.North East. Our North East managers are better. It is a fact of life to
:25:21. > :25:24.retain those people, I have to keep them more. The only way for the
:25:24. > :25:28.North to get back on its feet - and end its reliance on the public
:25:28. > :25:31.sector - is to grow more new businesses of its own. But have we
:25:31. > :25:41.got the entrepreneurs ready to take on that challenge? Well, not
:25:41. > :25:45.
:25:45. > :25:50.everyone's attempt to start their We had a sandwich shop in Gateshead.
:25:50. > :25:54.We took it over, we did really well for a while. You buy in the correct
:25:54. > :25:58.foods and whatever. But because there's a recession, people aren't
:25:58. > :26:03.willing to pay that price. We noticed people taking sandwiches to
:26:03. > :26:09.work as opposed to calling into the shop. And because of that, we had
:26:09. > :26:14.to close it down. Standing here it feels really depressing. All that
:26:14. > :26:17.time, all that energy put into the business and for what? This is
:26:17. > :26:21.Darren, my partner. He is running a building business. The construction
:26:21. > :26:25.industry has been hit hugely. Now we are getting to the point you are
:26:25. > :26:29.using your savings. Once that has gone, that will be the end. We have
:26:29. > :26:33.already had one failed business. We have another one on the brink. We
:26:33. > :26:37.need to find out what is the help out there for the likes of us and
:26:37. > :26:42.if it can happen to us, it can happen to all these other
:26:42. > :26:49.businesses around here. Darren, Valerie, how much have you
:26:49. > :26:56.got left in savings? Less than two grand. That is it. If work doesn't
:26:56. > :27:00.pick up, we will have to close it. We find - we have a building
:27:00. > :27:07.company and people aren't spending the money, or they want you to keep
:27:07. > :27:11.the price so tight that you can't make any money. So the balance is
:27:11. > :27:15.you are giving more out than you are getting in. When that two grand
:27:15. > :27:20.runs out, then what? Tell me. don't know. I have already asked
:27:20. > :27:23.the question, but apparently in this country if you try and do it
:27:23. > :27:27.yourself, and you try and look after yourself, you think you will
:27:27. > :27:34.have a safety net. We have paid our taxes for years and years. When you
:27:34. > :27:40.go for the help, it is like, "You are claiming benefits?" No. "I'm
:27:40. > :27:45.sorry, we can't help you." What are we supposed to do? That is the same
:27:45. > :27:50.for you? Yes. I work for a charity full-time. I have a 16-year-old
:27:50. > :27:56.daughter and I want to send her to uni. I'm doing business management.
:27:56. > :27:59.I do - I would like to have my own business, eventually. There's lots
:27:59. > :28:05.of worries. I'm really stretched now. I have paid for my course as
:28:05. > :28:11.well. I don't get any help there. I don't understand why there is not...
:28:11. > :28:16.You help yourself and you don't get any help? No. People are on
:28:16. > :28:21.benefits and they don't work. They get everything paid for them. In
:28:21. > :28:26.actual fact, I would be better off on benefit. That is what we said.
:28:26. > :28:30.understand why people on benefit stay on benefit. I tell you the
:28:30. > :28:39.difference, you know that every week or every two weeks, that is
:28:39. > :28:45.going to happen. However low it is. The likes of us, we just don't have
:28:45. > :28:49.that. I see people in this position every day. They have taken on
:28:49. > :28:52.mortgages they can't afford, or businesses that go under. They
:28:52. > :28:55.never thought they would be in a position where they would have to
:28:55. > :29:00.look at benefits. Unfortunately, the recession is hitting, but the
:29:00. > :29:04.Government is taking �18 billion out of the welfare benefits system
:29:04. > :29:08.and that is going to hit people who are just above the edge. People who
:29:08. > :29:17.are on benefits will find it difficult to get off benefits
:29:17. > :29:22.because the margin to get a job is not there. Yvonne has been waiting.
:29:22. > :29:27.What happened to your jewellery and accessory shop in Maryport?
:29:27. > :29:32.opened it up five-and-a-half years ago. Initially, it was very, very
:29:32. > :29:37.good. Then, unfortunately, when Northern Rock collapsed, it hit
:29:37. > :29:47.Cumbria because they invested in it as well. It literally sliced the
:29:47. > :29:47.
:29:47. > :29:52.economy. You could literally see it cut in two. What did your
:29:52. > :29:57.accountant say to you? He said, "Shut the shop!" Simple as that?
:29:57. > :30:02.Simple as that. You are going under. I knew. I mean, I have been in
:30:03. > :30:07.business since I was 21. I have always been self-employed. The last
:30:07. > :30:12.business that we had was in the last recession and that went
:30:12. > :30:16.bankrupt and we lost our home, we lost everything. Literally, we had
:30:16. > :30:22.to live in the middle of a field. Now it's happened again, how does
:30:22. > :30:26.that make you feel? I'm really sad. I'm more sad for the fact that - I
:30:26. > :30:32.don't feel I have let myself down. I feel I have let the people that I
:30:32. > :30:36.have grown to like in the shop down. I went into something - I knew
:30:36. > :30:40.there was something wrong and I thought I have to find a gap.
:30:40. > :30:46.Michelle, let me ask you about your business. You set up a business in
:30:46. > :30:52.the middle of the recession, two years ago. I did. What was the
:30:52. > :30:56.thinking there? I'm thinking, "Was I a fool?" My business is luxury
:30:56. > :31:00.lingerie, I had the option to do standard lingerie or luxury. I went
:31:00. > :31:03.for the luxury market. We are exporting to 14 countries. We are
:31:03. > :31:08.based in Gateshead. I'm so proud of being from the North East. We need
:31:08. > :31:14.to look at some of the positives about living here. I have been
:31:14. > :31:18.given a hell of a lot of support from Gateshead Council and the
:31:18. > :31:25.University of Northumbria. How is the business doing? It is doing
:31:25. > :31:32.really well. I need to thank all of my students who have helped me get
:31:33. > :31:39.by. I have been to the job tenner. My business is run by me and two or
:31:39. > :31:49.three of the in -- I have been to the Jobcentre. My business is in
:31:49. > :31:55.run by me and two or three of the students. What is frustrating you
:31:55. > :31:58.at the moment, Jalf? There are fantastic opportunities. There are
:31:58. > :32:02.always opportunities in the recession. You need to find the
:32:02. > :32:08.right product for the right market. If you are forward-thinking, you
:32:08. > :32:11.could still make a successful business. In order to fund it, the
:32:11. > :32:16.Regional Development Agency has gone, the small loans guarantee
:32:16. > :32:19.scheme, which was in existence a few years ago, that's gone, and the
:32:19. > :32:23.Banks aren't giving any money regardless of how good your
:32:23. > :32:28.business plans are. They have said blank to the restaurant industry
:32:28. > :32:31.they are not borrowing at all. We could create jobs and create new
:32:31. > :32:35.businesses but we don't have the means to do so. James, the
:32:35. > :32:41.Coalition Government has been putting pressure on banks, it is
:32:41. > :32:48.not happening in the North East? Some banks are looking at whole
:32:48. > :32:52.sectors of commerce and saying, "We are not going to lend to
:32:52. > :32:58.restaurants." Why don't you have a word? Talk to the Bank managers?
:32:58. > :33:04.are aware of what the problem is. We have to facilitate it. You are
:33:04. > :33:09.right. There are huge numbers... Who runs the country, the Banks or
:33:09. > :33:14.the politicians? The politicians don't run the Banks. Everything is
:33:14. > :33:17.arms-length but it is our money. is. There are huge numbers of
:33:18. > :33:22.entrepreneurs in the North East and across the country who want to do...
:33:22. > :33:28.Why are you laughing? The previous Government's policy was to be at
:33:28. > :33:33.arms-length when we were offering support, we set up the RDAs...
:33:33. > :33:38.couldn't make the Banks lend either, let's be honest? They would be
:33:38. > :33:46.saying the same. We would have much... She would be saying the
:33:46. > :33:52.same. It is like a game of tennis! If you were in power, it would be
:33:52. > :33:56.the same thing. You would be blaming him. I have to say if you
:33:56. > :34:03.believe that, if everyone believes that no Government makes a
:34:03. > :34:07.difference, that is the reason why we get the... It is our fault!
:34:07. > :34:11.last four years of your power, you were no better, if not worse, than
:34:11. > :34:16.the Tories are at the moment. had the Future Jobs Fund which
:34:16. > :34:21.would have given jobs to these people. We had the National Health
:34:21. > :34:27.Service... Hang on a minute. Phil? I don't want a party political
:34:28. > :34:31.argument. The Bank loans go beyond restaurants. We are in a
:34:31. > :34:37.manufacturing industry. We have suppliers in our supply chain that
:34:37. > :34:42.can't buy raw materials to supply my factory. We are a very solid
:34:42. > :34:48.business. We is suppliers that can't buy steel. I have to say,
:34:48. > :34:54.with the Banks, I went with an order book of �26,000 of orders and
:34:54. > :34:59.said, "I have these orders. If you give me the money, I can supply
:34:59. > :35:09.these orders." "Sorry, we are not going to give you the money." So
:35:09. > :35:10.
:35:10. > :35:14.those orders went. That is crazy. I want to bring you some research.
:35:14. > :35:19.Experian say the North East has the highest number of young small
:35:19. > :35:23.companies with the potential to grow and create new jobs. They call
:35:23. > :35:26.these companies business champions. Newcastle and Middlesbrough are in
:35:26. > :35:34.the top ten local authorities for business champions. Steve, you run
:35:34. > :35:39.such a company. What is it? Basically, we put high-resolution
:35:39. > :35:46.graphics on shutters, shop shutters, or basically any shutters. When the
:35:46. > :35:49.shuts are down, companies can advertise? Yes, it can be used as a
:35:49. > :35:54.cost-effective form of advertising, or just to brighten up - our
:35:54. > :35:59.mission statement is to brighten up Britain. OK. Keith, are you upbeat
:35:59. > :36:04.because of this research? I wish I was. There are clearly some great
:36:04. > :36:09.examples of these companies, but if they believe that they have found
:36:09. > :36:15.the formula to identify growth companies, that is the Holy Grail
:36:15. > :36:19.of economic development. Sadly, I don't think that is going to be the
:36:19. > :36:24.case. One of the reasons why the region has come out well is because
:36:24. > :36:28.there has been a little bit of an upsurge in new businesses starting.
:36:28. > :36:32.The business base is so small that relatively it looks as if there's
:36:32. > :36:36.lots of new young businesses, but it is also a reflection of the fact
:36:36. > :36:43.there aren't that many businesses in this region. OK. There's plenty
:36:43. > :36:49.of empty shops... Can I say, instead of having party political
:36:49. > :36:54.argpts full of -- arguments full of bluster, why don't the parties get
:36:54. > :36:58.together, get those guys into work, in some form, get that guy's
:36:58. > :37:05.business going again, promote this region, do what they can for this
:37:05. > :37:15.region, get this guy apprentices. If they acted like adults, they
:37:15. > :37:18.
:37:18. > :37:23.would do some good. Well said. APPLAUSE Thank you, Craig. We are
:37:23. > :37:28.One NorthEast! I would like to end with some final thoughts from the
:37:28. > :37:32.three people we featured in our short films. Really to get your
:37:32. > :37:38.thoughts about how you are feeling about your future, Eddie? I haven't
:37:38. > :37:42.got a future. Not in work. There isn't anything there. They can
:37:42. > :37:48.argue as much as they like. Unless they find the jobs and the jobs are
:37:48. > :37:52.there, you have had it. Peter? can correct one thing that was said
:37:52. > :38:00.before about not investing in apprentices. Our business invests
:38:00. > :38:05.very strongly in apprentices. We have 10% of our workforce who are
:38:05. > :38:10.apprentices. Are you optimistic about the future? Generally,
:38:10. > :38:14.optimistic. Valerie? I think it's - there is nothing worse than being
:38:14. > :38:18.on these programmes and you have different political parties
:38:18. > :38:23.fighting. Get together and put it right. We have a great country.
:38:23. > :38:26.Thank you very much. APPLAUSE And that's about it from us, we're out
:38:26. > :38:30.of time. My thanks to everyone in our audience and to you at home for