:00:04. > :00:14.before their release on Tuesday. I will be back a little later. Now
:00:14. > :00:32.
:00:32. > :00:37.This is the weekly guide to who is making the cash, how they are doing
:00:37. > :00:43.t and it what it means for the way we work. With us tonight, ready for
:00:43. > :00:48.take-off, Steve Ridgway is the man in charge of Virgin Atlantic. From
:00:48. > :00:53.luxury packaging to paper strong enough to build planes, and Jill
:00:53. > :00:56.Treanor's first outing as the Guardian's new City editor, though
:00:56. > :01:01.she has told us not to mention it. I'm sure you have noticed the price
:01:01. > :01:04.of things has been going up a lot lately. The inflation figures are
:01:04. > :01:08.due out next Tuesday, they are expecting to show prices are rising
:01:08. > :01:13.faster than wages. Soaring gas and electricity bills could push the
:01:13. > :01:17.inflation rate up to 5%. Steve Ridgway, we will start with you on
:01:17. > :01:21.this. Obviously you're facing higher fuel
:01:21. > :01:25.costs, the rising cost of oil is one of the things that has been
:01:25. > :01:30.causing pain in the economy for the last two years or so, how do you
:01:30. > :01:36.manage the rise and the fall in that cost? It's a very significant
:01:36. > :01:39.cost, historically fuel used to be 12-15% of costs, it is now 40%. We
:01:40. > :01:44.have traditionally hedged our fuel, that only buys you a bit of time to
:01:44. > :01:47.smooth out, it is very painful. That together with the taxation
:01:47. > :01:51.increases, Air Passenger Duty has gone up dramatically, it is making
:01:51. > :01:55.huge price pressure in the industry, passengers are feeling it. Hedging
:01:55. > :01:58.is something many airlines do, it involves buying the fuel in advance,
:01:58. > :02:03.agreeing the price quite some time in advance before it is actually
:02:03. > :02:06.delivered. Is there a limit to the amount of hedging that can be done?
:02:06. > :02:10.Yes, and all you are doing is you are just buying a bit of time, as
:02:10. > :02:14.you see a market changing. We do it just so we have certainty during
:02:14. > :02:20.the year. But ultimately the fuel price is the fuel price and that's
:02:20. > :02:23.what you end up paying. At what point do you end up saying we can't
:02:23. > :02:29.shield ourselves from this price rise any more, we have to pass it
:02:29. > :02:35.on to our consumers? It does have to pass on, aviation margins are
:02:35. > :02:38.thin. You saw that in 2008, with the recession coming, typically you
:02:38. > :02:43.will start to cut capacity because demand falls and bring the industry
:02:43. > :02:47.back into balance. It is not easy to do and doesn't happen quickly.
:02:47. > :02:52.Jill Treanor, we will hear tomorrow from the club of economists, that
:02:52. > :02:56.in their view the economy has stalled. This rise in prices, that
:02:56. > :03:02.outstrips wages, must surely be one of the reasons for that? Yes, I'm
:03:02. > :03:04.pretty sure it is. Of course it is not just energy prices, which we
:03:05. > :03:11.have been talking about, but also the price of clothing as we know is
:03:11. > :03:17.going up in the stores. That is having a major impact on everyone.
:03:17. > :03:20.Mark Webber what does your business do to deal with rising prices?
:03:20. > :03:24.Steve we have been - Mark Cropper, what does your business do to deal
:03:24. > :03:28.with the pricing prices? Like Steve we have been hedging prices for a
:03:28. > :03:32.number of years. We can pass some of the cost on, but that is very
:03:32. > :03:36.difficult. We have to make things better and more efficient, and try
:03:36. > :03:39.to transition to products that perhaps we can get better margins
:03:39. > :03:43.on. The position where you are in your market place is hugely
:03:43. > :03:49.important f you can go for that high-quality end that very few
:03:49. > :03:54.people can mimic, it gives you a little bit more self-control?
:03:54. > :03:59.is exactly where our business is, and we need to move even further
:03:59. > :04:04.into this specialist end of the spectrum. Mark does a lot of
:04:04. > :04:11.experts to Europe and other places, exports were meant to be the thing
:04:11. > :04:16.that we are going to lift the recovery and the slowdown of the
:04:16. > :04:22.last few years. It started well and has eased off since? The Item Club
:04:22. > :04:25.is talking about a terrible jucture in this state of the economy we are
:04:25. > :04:29.- juncture in this state of the economy we are in. Exporters like
:04:29. > :04:33.Mark were helped by the level of the pound, but it takes more than
:04:33. > :04:39.that to get economies growing. You can't rely on exports alone. The
:04:39. > :04:43.Chinese, as we know, have been trying to reduce their exports. So
:04:43. > :04:46.it is major problem for this economy at the moment. Meanwhile,
:04:46. > :04:50.while businesses are worrying about rising prices, there are people on
:04:50. > :04:55.the streets this weekend, taking part in those protests that we
:04:55. > :04:59.mentioned in the news there. They are complaining various ills and
:04:59. > :05:04.evils of capitalism. We see them there on the steps of St Paul's
:05:04. > :05:09.Cathedral, just on the edge, just next by the Stock Exchange in
:05:09. > :05:14.London. When City people go to work tomorrow, do you think any of them
:05:15. > :05:18.might have even the slightest shred of sympathy for the points the
:05:18. > :05:22.protestors' are making? I suspect the people who work in the City
:05:22. > :05:26.don't have simthee. They live in a bubble of their own. And kind of
:05:26. > :05:29.feel they are working very hard and worrying about bonuses at this time
:05:29. > :05:34.of year, knowing the profitability of their banks are down much
:05:34. > :05:39.further. You can see while those people, why they are on the streets,
:05:39. > :05:44.as we know inflation is going up, wages aren't rising as fast, it is
:05:44. > :05:48.making people feel far less secure than they did. Squeeze on the every
:05:48. > :05:52.day incomes. They will seat City as the enemy, and the source of the
:05:52. > :05:55.prob - see the City as the enemy and the source of the problems?
:05:55. > :05:58.That is what people are talking about, that the City is the reason
:05:58. > :06:02.our economy is stalling. The cost of bailing out our banks three
:06:03. > :06:06.years ago is the reason we are so indebted. That is why a lot of the
:06:06. > :06:10.anger is being directed at bankers. A lot of people feel the City has
:06:10. > :06:14.managed to keep operating almost in the same way as it did before,
:06:14. > :06:17.despite having received all this taxpayer support. Carry on as
:06:17. > :06:20.before someone else comes and cleans up the mess. It is time for
:06:20. > :06:25.boom or bust, the quick flick through the stories you would
:06:25. > :06:30.probably rather have missed this week. We start with this, popstar,
:06:31. > :06:35.Lady Gaga, here she is inside a giant egg on the way to an awards
:06:35. > :06:39.ceremony. Her lawyers probably used a different mode of transport when
:06:39. > :06:45.she went to battle in the courts. She stopped the makers of a
:06:45. > :06:49.children's game making a character called Lady Goo Goo, the game was
:06:49. > :06:59.an overnight sensation and the games makers wanted to release the
:06:59. > :07:04.song. A new law means fines of up to �20 though if publicity is taken
:07:04. > :07:07.by drawing a company logo on naked flesh of athletes. It is known as
:07:07. > :07:14.ambush marketing. A crime-fighting superhero in
:07:14. > :07:17.Seatle says he will fight on, even though he was arrested by police.
:07:17. > :07:22.Phoenix Jones, his real name, Benjamin Fodor, says he was trying
:07:22. > :07:25.to break up a fight outside a nightclub. The police said he
:07:25. > :07:30.probably shouldn't pepper spray people just because he thinks they
:07:30. > :07:36.are fighting, they charged him with assault.
:07:36. > :07:39.Mark, the story of Lady Gaga, and Lady Goo Goo. She was protecting
:07:39. > :07:44.her copyright, and protecting copyright, and protecting
:07:44. > :07:47.intellectual property is something that is hugely important in a
:07:47. > :07:52.knowledge economy? That's right. Although I think in this particular
:07:52. > :07:56.case it is perhaps a little petty, when you have got a brand of the
:07:56. > :08:01.strength of Lady Gaga, that they feel the need to do that. There is
:08:01. > :08:06.a serious point about copyright, and you do have to defend it. If
:08:06. > :08:10.you can afford to. The stuff you make it pretty advanced, pretty
:08:10. > :08:16.high-tech at times? Yes, and the way we protect a lot of our
:08:16. > :08:22.knowledge, is simply trade secrets, we won't, we just don't tell people
:08:22. > :08:26.what we do. You keep it internal to the business and nobody finds out.
:08:26. > :08:31.The thing, seeing this story when it developed on Friday that struck
:08:31. > :08:35.me, is she is called Lady Gaga, this product was going to be called
:08:35. > :08:40.Lady Goo Goo, surely that is enough of a difference for laws on
:08:40. > :08:45.copyright not to aploo. But the judge felt actually they were
:08:45. > :08:52.similar enough for people to be confused? They do sound sort of
:08:52. > :08:56.simple later, Ga-Ga and Goo-Goo, they could be the same. You say you
:08:56. > :09:00.thought it sounded petty, but people go to extraordinary lengths
:09:00. > :09:04.to protect their brands, and clearly Lady Gaga is proud of the
:09:04. > :09:09.way she has presented herself and her image, and felt it was one
:09:09. > :09:12.situation where she wasn't prepared to let it go. You have to wonder, a
:09:12. > :09:17.children's character, whether it would have been good for her. A
:09:17. > :09:24.judge somewhere agreed with her. there an allowance here for attire.
:09:24. > :09:31.Your industry Sister is the Guardian, and it has been named by
:09:31. > :09:35.Private Eye about its propenceity for spelling mistakes and copyright
:09:35. > :09:38.law looks like they 0 could stop that!
:09:38. > :09:44.The ambush marketing, Virgin is well known for its marketing stunts,
:09:44. > :09:54.I think you have drawn the line at having people draw your logo on
:09:54. > :09:59.
:09:59. > :10:05.their naked flesh? I think it is people will think that the money
:10:05. > :10:10.and the way is worth it. Is it a publicity stunt beyond the pale?
:10:10. > :10:14.There somebody publicity stunts, to make it amusing you have to be
:10:14. > :10:19.careful. You can be edgy, but you can cross the line. Over the years
:10:19. > :10:23.there have been spectacular ones. Sir Richard Branson in a wedding
:10:24. > :10:29.dress and frock, wasn't the line, he did that to publicise the bridal
:10:29. > :10:35.business? That was a new business, it was a very long time ago. It
:10:35. > :10:39.sticks in the mind? As several other stufpbtss by Virgin are
:10:39. > :10:43.remembered. He was a genius at getting publicity? And still
:10:43. > :10:48.protects the brand. The Branson name, and Virgin is something
:10:48. > :10:52.clearly well protected. You can bring the two stories together. It
:10:52. > :10:56.is about brand protection and clever ways of publicising. A quick
:10:56. > :11:01.thought on superheros and their superpowers. If you were to have a
:11:01. > :11:06.superpower in business, what would it be? Now I have spent ten minutes
:11:06. > :11:09.with these two gentlemen, I have decided commodity prices and
:11:09. > :11:14.predicting what they will be tomorrow and the year after, that
:11:14. > :11:19.is the key to the success. They are both obsessed by the price of
:11:19. > :11:23.commodities. You could translate that whatever your input is into
:11:23. > :11:28.your business, the price, would be key. Your business superpower?
:11:28. > :11:33.would have to go agree, I would opt for the same one. You need a
:11:33. > :11:37.different one. Superheros don't share power? Mine would be to have
:11:37. > :11:41.engaged, enthusiastic people, for the duration of my career to excite
:11:41. > :11:47.them about our business. You can, talk about paper, how much more
:11:47. > :11:49.exciting could it get? Your's? confidence and growth going. Let's
:11:49. > :11:54.develop that particular thought. How would you get confidence going,
:11:54. > :11:58.how would you get the economy going? I think we're going to have
:11:58. > :12:03.to do some things and be quite brave to actually plaik consumers
:12:03. > :12:07.feel more confident and get - make consumers feel more confident to
:12:07. > :12:10.get them spending more and being less cautious. I think there has
:12:10. > :12:14.been own goals about taxation, the Government is in a bind and needs
:12:14. > :12:18.to fix the deficit but we need to get the economy moving.
:12:18. > :12:22.You mean the rise in VAT? Things like VAT, I think it was a mistake
:12:23. > :12:27.to put VAT up, especially to up a round number, we can all work it
:12:27. > :12:31.out now, which we couldn't before. I expect if it was an obscure
:12:31. > :12:35.number it would be raising the money it needs to. There are a lot
:12:35. > :12:38.of things that are psychalogically important that we some how get
:12:38. > :12:42.consumer confidence and get it moving. It is not helped by the
:12:42. > :12:45.eurozone crisis. The sooner there is more clarity on that, and that
:12:46. > :12:50.is very solved, there will be more direction. We will see exports
:12:50. > :12:53.start to move. Airbus are selling a lot of planes in the far east, that
:12:53. > :12:57.means lots of wings are being built here, that is great for the UK
:12:57. > :13:00.economy. Look at Jaguar Land Rover, they are exporting, we are flying
:13:00. > :13:05.lots of businessmen to China and the far east, that is very
:13:05. > :13:10.important for UK business. I would be encouraging Mark to get on plane
:13:10. > :13:13.soon and sell some of his high- quality paper. How much are you
:13:13. > :13:17.willing to pay for British Midland? That is something I can't discuss
:13:17. > :13:21.with you, but it is a very interesting time for us. I think
:13:21. > :13:24.putting the two airlines together would be great for the future, and
:13:24. > :13:28.also it would be, most importantly, great for the UK economy and
:13:28. > :13:34.consumers, to keep that choice, keep everything on their toes.
:13:34. > :13:37.far down the process are we, are you talks to Lufthansa, are you
:13:37. > :13:41.assembling advisors or seeking funding? We are talking to
:13:41. > :13:45.Lufthansa, we are interested in buying some or all of British
:13:45. > :13:50.Midlands, it is early days yet, let's see how it develops. Do you
:13:50. > :13:54.expect to be the ultimate winner of British Midlands when Lufthansa
:13:54. > :13:59.sells it? I can't say that sitting here tonight, we would like to be.
:13:59. > :14:02.You would rather you had it rather than British Airways? There would
:14:02. > :14:06.be issues with British Airways given how dominant they are at
:14:06. > :14:09.Heathrow. And the authorities would have a big challenge on their hands
:14:09. > :14:14.to make sure consumers are protected. Heathrow is full, the
:14:14. > :14:18.airport says that the airlines say it, there was talk a week or so ago
:14:18. > :14:21.about the plan of sharing flights between Heathrow and Gatwick and
:14:21. > :14:25.moving passengers between the two by high-speed rail, what did you
:14:25. > :14:29.make of that plan? I don't think it is really the solution. I think the
:14:29. > :14:34.good thing is that there is a debate now that is running. The
:14:34. > :14:42.Government is beginning its new aviation policy, where we are all
:14:42. > :14:47.in putting, many, many interest groups are imputting. We need a hub
:14:47. > :14:52.airport that flies to many, many destinations, particularly the far
:14:52. > :14:55.east and the grorg markets. It is worrying when you hear Lufthansa
:14:55. > :15:01.saying that London or Heathrow could become a backwater, that is
:15:01. > :15:04.in none of our interests. Is that likely to happen, or saber-rattling
:15:04. > :15:10.because you want the extra runway and the Government said no? It is
:15:10. > :15:17.bound to look that the airlines have a vested interest in wanting
:15:17. > :15:20.another runway. But there is a co- relation in business about how well
:15:20. > :15:23.your main airlines serve the businesses around the world and how
:15:23. > :15:28.well your country does and prospers. The news in the night about the Air
:15:28. > :15:32.India flight on the ground for eight or nine hours, when it landed
:15:32. > :15:37.at cat gik instead of Heathrow, it is not your flight - Gatwick
:15:37. > :15:41.instead of heat thro. It is not your flight or your airline and not
:15:41. > :15:45.privvy to the airline operational decisions they would make. Given
:15:45. > :15:48.your experience about running an airline, why might a plane be kept
:15:48. > :15:51.with its full load of passengers on the ground for such a prolonged
:15:51. > :15:55.period of time? I don't know, the reason it went to Gatwick was
:15:55. > :15:59.obvious, around the fog. I would have thought it would have been
:15:59. > :16:03.very easy to get the passengers off the plane, you are only a little
:16:03. > :16:07.way round the M25, or got them on coaches and back up to Heathrow to
:16:07. > :16:12.meet friends and relatives, which many would be waiting. I was just
:16:12. > :16:15.talking to our operations department, they have an
:16:15. > :16:20.conjecturing about why they kept the aircraft on the ground so long
:16:20. > :16:25.and kept the passengers on it for so long and suffering that delay.
:16:25. > :16:29.For us, because we have operations in Gatwick and Heathrow, we would
:16:29. > :16:34.have got off the plane and repositioned the plane later.
:16:34. > :16:37.Thank you very much. They have been at it again, the people who run the
:16:37. > :16:41.20 most important economies in the world, that lot. They met this
:16:41. > :16:45.weekend, they talked about the same old thing, how to solve Europe's
:16:45. > :16:48.debt crisis. Finance ministers from India, China and Brazil are so
:16:48. > :16:52.worried that Europe's problems could hurt their economies, they
:16:52. > :16:56.are offering to pay more money to bail Europe out. Any extra money
:16:56. > :16:59.would be collected by the International Monetary Fund. As the
:16:59. > :17:05.UK is a key member of that club t means Britain could be asked to pay
:17:05. > :17:10.more too. Jill Treanor from the Guardian, the
:17:10. > :17:16.solution to this is going to be more money on the table? It has to
:17:16. > :17:22.be. We know the European leaders have been talking about this 440
:17:22. > :17:26.billion euro, ESFF fund that can be used to bailout countries, they
:17:26. > :17:32.have realised they need to bail out banks too. What people seem to be
:17:32. > :17:36.talking about is turning this fund into some sort of two trillion euro
:17:36. > :17:39.fund. Which some money earmarked to stablise some banks around the
:17:39. > :17:43.eurozone. The two are interlinked. The reason people are worried about
:17:43. > :17:46.the banks is because they are holding sovereign debt, the debt
:17:46. > :17:50.issue by these troubled Governments. When these troubled Governments run
:17:51. > :17:53.into difficult, the value of their bonds fall, and the banks take
:17:53. > :17:56.losses. That is the crucial difference this time around, it is
:17:56. > :18:01.that the banks may have to be bailed out, and it may be the gosms
:18:01. > :18:03.that have to do the bailing out? the Governments that have to do the
:18:03. > :18:08.bailing out? It is interesting three years on from bailing out
:18:08. > :18:11.banks in the UK and the US. Three years ago when we were bailing out
:18:11. > :18:14.the banks, we were worried because they were sitting on property,
:18:14. > :18:18.loans to property companies that nobody really knew what was going
:18:19. > :18:22.on. They also had these complex derivative products, CDOs, that
:18:22. > :18:26.nobody knew how to value them. This time round people are worried
:18:26. > :18:29.because they are sitting about something they know about,
:18:29. > :18:33.Government bonds. The idea is you can work out what the losses can be
:18:33. > :18:37.in a straight forward way. It is an old question and asked at the time
:18:37. > :18:42.three years ago, why can't the banks sort out their own financial
:18:42. > :18:46.mess? I think the problem is, what the banks would usually rely on is
:18:46. > :18:51.investors in the City to buy their shares, and that bolsters their
:18:51. > :18:54.ability to do loans through their capital. The problem is, that
:18:54. > :18:58.investors have lost confidence in banks. They don't really want to
:18:58. > :19:03.lend them money any more through these share issues, and the reality
:19:03. > :19:07.is they have to turn to their Governments to bail them out.
:19:07. > :19:12.problem for anyone in business, in particular someone like you, who
:19:12. > :19:16.exports and sells your kpwoods in Europe s that these - goods in
:19:16. > :19:21.Europe, is that this crisis has hit economies on the continent and they
:19:21. > :19:25.are slowing down. Have you noticed the impact on export sales? We are
:19:25. > :19:35.not noticing much impact. Just do comment on the eurozone crisis, I
:19:35. > :19:38.think there is still some way to run. As a business we remain
:19:38. > :19:42.confident, we are continuing to spend and hire. Our banks are
:19:42. > :19:45.remaining very supportive. We lost three of our five banks in the
:19:45. > :19:51.financial crisis, we had five backers before. We lost three of
:19:51. > :19:55.them. In fact, we have now got a new round of backers that actually
:19:55. > :20:00.are very keen to lend to a business that isn't going to make anybody
:20:00. > :20:04.rich quick, but will be there in the long-term. Someone with nice
:20:04. > :20:10.things to say about banks, I never thought I would see the day.
:20:10. > :20:14.Do you have a sense of frustration that if you ran your business, and
:20:14. > :20:21.made decisions as slowly as these European leaders seem to do, your
:20:21. > :20:24.business would not be as successful as it is? Certainly some of the
:20:24. > :20:31.problems recently have been that the lack of cohesion between the
:20:31. > :20:35.leaders, and that certainly seems to be a big cause of the problem.
:20:35. > :20:45.We couldn't afford to be like that. But I can understand why it is like
:20:45. > :20:45.
:20:45. > :20:50.that. These are very different countries with different problems.
:20:50. > :20:54.Business can cash in by offering us products not only made exclusively
:20:54. > :21:01.for us, but we have designed ourselves as well. Isn't that
:21:01. > :21:06.getting the customers to do the work for you. We looked into it.
:21:06. > :21:11.# I said hey # I put some new shoes on
:21:11. > :21:15.# And everybody is smiling The options are limitless, this is
:21:15. > :21:18.a point the court. 18 months into trading, this
:21:18. > :21:20.company says it already offers over four million different styles of
:21:20. > :21:25.shoes. What are the advantages of doing
:21:25. > :21:31.business this way? The first thing is to keep fixed costs low. We
:21:31. > :21:38.don't have to buy stock. That is great from cashflow. We are an on-
:21:38. > :21:41.line business, we don't need the huge fixed costs of stores. We
:21:41. > :21:45.build a deep relationship with customers, which is great for a
:21:45. > :21:49.repeat business. They buy from us more often. They give us great word
:21:49. > :21:54.of mouth to recommend us to others. You have decided to price your
:21:54. > :21:57.shoes at �230, that is the start point. That's not cheap?
:21:57. > :22:03.pricing feels right for our target market. When we launched the
:22:03. > :22:07.business, we did come under the �200, but actually quite quickly we
:22:07. > :22:14.realised that just wouldn't work for us, given the cost of servicing
:22:14. > :22:19.every customer. We give them a high level of customer service.
:22:19. > :22:23.Click on the part of the shoe first. I think single strap would look
:22:23. > :22:27.really cute. It is premium fashion with a big difference, you are the
:22:27. > :22:31.designer. With just a click of a mouse, customers can design their
:22:31. > :22:35.very own shoes, made to order. It is technology like this, that is
:22:35. > :22:39.changing the face of retail. Customers can visualise their
:22:40. > :22:43.products on-line. They can play around with them. That means that
:22:43. > :22:47.businesses can give customers exactly what they want, without it
:22:47. > :22:54.costing them the earth. As access to new technology grows,
:22:54. > :22:57.many more of us are accustomed to getting what we want, when we want
:22:57. > :23:04.it? Retailers have to offer something else in addition to low
:23:04. > :23:09.prices. That is why we are seeing retailers looking to bespoke
:23:09. > :23:12.products and quality-led items and consumers are responding. You are a
:23:12. > :23:16.budding entrepeneur, setting up an on-line business using this model,
:23:16. > :23:20.how can you know you can make any money, surely the costs are much
:23:20. > :23:24.higher? There are more costs involved in running a bespoke
:23:24. > :23:30.retail operation, as opposed to mass market one. It varies by chat
:23:30. > :23:34.gree. Take shoes where sizing is straight forward, it is easy to
:23:34. > :23:37.customize. If you look at tailoring suits, it is more cost intensive,
:23:37. > :23:43.you have various measurements, fabrics, patterns. That adds a lot
:23:43. > :23:49.of cost into the process. person who knows all about keeping
:23:49. > :23:55.costs to a minimum is chemistry graduate, Ruth Ball. She had no
:23:55. > :23:58.doubt on-line was the only way to go to launch her bespoke liquors
:23:58. > :24:02.business. I'm a generation who has always had the Internet, it is like
:24:02. > :24:05.somebody without a phone 30 years ago. This is a niche market, where
:24:05. > :24:10.do you see the business going? want to keep it small and artisan,
:24:10. > :24:13.really. I'm looking for the customers who are happy to pay for
:24:13. > :24:18.that handmade product, for that personal relationship with me
:24:18. > :24:21.making the product. Marrying the customer to their very
:24:21. > :24:25.even product can be a recipe for success, it is choosing what to
:24:25. > :24:31.make that is the hard part. Next week, more plain speaking this
:24:31. > :24:35.time from Sir nijm Rudd, the industrial - Nigel Rudd, the