:00:02. > :00:10.Lincolnshire. -- a six-year-old boy. Police believe it was a tragic
:00:10. > :00:13.accident. It is now time for The Bottom Line. Whenever struggled to
:00:13. > :00:19.get middle aged guests on this programme so today we depart from
:00:19. > :00:25.our normal service with three young entrepreneurs - all enthusiastic
:00:25. > :00:29.twenty-somethings. They will not be a grey hair in the studio unless
:00:29. > :00:39.there is the challenge of setting up their own business has got to
:00:39. > :00:55.
:00:55. > :00:58.The guests are: Suleman Sacranie, founder of online wholesaler
:00:58. > :01:08.99pwholesaler.com. Kelly Goss of independent fashion brand Rock n'
:01:08. > :01:09.
:01:09. > :01:15.Needle. Louis Barnett, founder of luxury chocolate maker Chokolit.
:01:15. > :01:23.company is now moving in to allowing all these people allowing
:01:23. > :01:33.goods on the cash and carry and compare prices. 99pwholesaler.com.
:01:33. > :01:40.I found at a fashion label named Rock'n'Needle in 2008. I started
:01:40. > :01:43.the business when I was studying. I a designer collections which are
:01:43. > :01:53.wholesalers into boutiques and I am a represented by an agency in
:01:53. > :01:55.
:01:56. > :02:01.Brussels. By founded Chokolit in 2004. We are a luxury chocolate
:02:01. > :02:06.maker - from cakes to everything, selling all over the world and
:02:06. > :02:16.doing 5% of our business in the UK. We are all natural and nothing in
:02:16. > :02:21.
:02:21. > :02:29.it then they should not be there. Welcome. 99pwholesaler.com is an
:02:29. > :02:35.internet wholesale retail or? the end of gold has always been to
:02:35. > :02:42.develop a comparison engine because I have been brought up with a
:02:42. > :02:46.family... My father is a shopkeeper... They go around saying
:02:46. > :02:51.which is the cheapest cash and carry an even for the sake of 10p
:02:51. > :02:57.There will travel 20 miles not realising the ensure it is costing
:02:57. > :03:02.them... I dropped out of university to develop these. I was studying
:03:02. > :03:09.chemistry. They used to drink lots of coffee in the cafeteria because
:03:09. > :03:15.it got so boring. Do you think that is a good idea dropping out? At the
:03:15. > :03:20.time it was the worst decision. When I dropped out, I did not
:03:20. > :03:26.realise it was a nightmare. To get the initial model going, it was
:03:26. > :03:32.about finding when the company. You have to buy a domain name. The
:03:32. > :03:36.worst thing is you have all these dreams - I am going to be a
:03:36. > :03:42.millionaire tomorrow. The reality was I was buying products for
:03:42. > :03:49.customers, put in an in a box and making a loss. In terms of the
:03:49. > :03:56.customer experience, can I go to the website? There are two sides a
:03:56. > :04:04.retail side which a normal customer can go in there. Is it all
:04:04. > :04:14.99pwholesaler.com? And the wholesale side which doesn't deals
:04:14. > :04:14.
:04:14. > :04:23.for 24 hours because shop keepers when Daley offers a required. --
:04:23. > :04:32.and Daley offers. It will be launching in March. And then ate
:04:32. > :04:41.you will create a comparison shop. Tell us about Rock'n'Needle? It is
:04:41. > :04:47.a fashion label. I design collections. I have people and nine
:04:47. > :04:52.with an agency in Brussels and we will sell the collection to mainly
:04:52. > :04:59.Independent boutiques. You did not drop out of university, you studied
:04:59. > :05:03.fashion and design? I went to the fashion Academy for a year where I
:05:03. > :05:13.did a diploma or and before that I did a national diploma for two
:05:13. > :05:13.
:05:13. > :05:18.years. Upon my experience -- experience... But you didn't study
:05:18. > :05:24.some of the technicalities off of the business you a ring.
:05:24. > :05:32.Rock'n'Needle - the needle is a reference to tattoos? There is a
:05:32. > :05:39.tad too inspiration? It is inspired by rock'n'roll culture, sewing
:05:40. > :05:48.needle, a tad too needle, vinyl needle and the Rock'n'Needle.
:05:48. > :05:56.were inspired by a tad too is that here you do not? No. There is no
:05:56. > :06:06.inconsistency? People were quite surprised when I showed up with no
:06:06. > :06:08.
:06:08. > :06:14.stance on wore tattoos. -- stance. How old are you now? 22. How is the
:06:14. > :06:21.business going? I would rather not disclose the turnover. Last year I
:06:21. > :06:25.had to change all my processes and I used to make the closing myself
:06:25. > :06:30.and obviously that was her very small run to boutiques and I did
:06:30. > :06:37.not want to carry on like that because I wanted to grow. Last
:06:37. > :06:45.August I started to outsource my manufacturing and did my first
:06:45. > :06:50.trade show in Bell's Court and signed up with an agency to develop
:06:50. > :06:59.began distribution. I cannot force you but you have a couple of staff?
:06:59. > :07:07.It is not just you working? There are four of last... Sometimes five.
:07:07. > :07:12.Louis Garnett Chokolit. I started when I was 12 years-old. I left
:07:12. > :07:15.school when hours 11. I was told by the teacher was a lap to take the
:07:15. > :07:25.exams because they could not right. I'd have some outside tutoring and
:07:25. > :07:29.
:07:29. > :07:34.at that time I was diagnosed with a number of diagnosis says. --
:07:34. > :07:40.diseases. I dropped out when I was 11. There are only two things are
:07:40. > :07:44.ever enjoy doing with my spare time after school and that was cooking
:07:44. > :07:53.and animals. The first thing I ended up doing was working with
:07:53. > :07:59.birds of prey. Then I moved on from that... I got asked by my Auntie to
:07:59. > :08:06.make a cake for a 50th birthday and that when on to local family and
:08:06. > :08:12.friends and it grew and grew. As these things happen in life, back
:08:12. > :08:18.in 2005, I saw a couple of products and recognise that there were local
:08:18. > :08:23.businesses as well. I told the so manager I made chocolates and he
:08:23. > :08:33.shook me away with a business about. A founder head office and they
:08:33. > :08:34.
:08:34. > :08:41.asked me for a meeting after a couple of days. Bring us up to date.
:08:41. > :08:46.For some reason, for various decisions, we were very small and a
:08:46. > :08:52.naive and business. We went from very small to very large very
:08:53. > :09:00.quickly. As we realise now, we were overtrading a little bit but we
:09:00. > :09:05.grew very quickly as a brand. After the end of 2008, a couple of things
:09:05. > :09:12.happen in our business. The UK market started to drop out. In 2009
:09:12. > :09:19.I started to look for exports. Ice that had an export programme and
:09:19. > :09:28.now, two years later, or we do 5% in the UK. Just 5%, the rest is
:09:28. > :09:32.exports. How old are you now? 20. How big is the Business?
:09:32. > :09:38.problem with the business is we are going through a real transitional
:09:38. > :09:44.phase. We went from a UK-based business to an export business. We
:09:44. > :09:49.when from having a production site with 10 local staff and then we
:09:49. > :09:54.split into production starts -- sides in the UK. We are setting a
:09:54. > :09:59.site in Mexico at the moment. is the turnover? The problem with
:09:59. > :10:07.the turnover... What I love about you, is you never answer the
:10:07. > :10:16.question. Go on, what is the story on the turnover? Here you are
:10:16. > :10:20.asking about turnover and that mack we could get to the Public Domain
:10:20. > :10:23.that mack it is the one question I get asked in the UK but in any
:10:24. > :10:28.other country I do not. It is more about the achievement of what
:10:28. > :10:33.you're doing. I am not trying to take it away from you but it is
:10:33. > :10:39.interesting to get a rough idea of the scale of the business. You
:10:39. > :10:43.employ people and outsource? We and poi people. In the next month we
:10:43. > :10:49.are going to open a brand new production site in the UK. Across
:10:49. > :10:53.the world we probably have 20 or 30 staff at any one time. But the
:10:53. > :11:00.production changes constantly. are all at the start of your
:11:00. > :11:05.business careers. Let us talk about some of the headaches. Three young
:11:05. > :11:09.entrepreneurs - what is the thing you lose most sleep over? I would
:11:09. > :11:19.guess it would be raising capital or getting investment in the
:11:19. > :11:23.
:11:23. > :11:28.business. Cash flow. In the early days, or supporting yourself can be
:11:29. > :11:35.a nightmare. You're putting all your money in the business.
:11:35. > :11:45.cannot pay yourself a salary? not even that. I was more than
:11:45. > :11:54.prepared to do struggle to start the business but the enterprise
:11:54. > :11:57.grant I looked into, for example, he had to be on ships seeker a liar
:11:57. > :12:07.and the share allowance for six months. That is utterly illogical
:12:07. > :12:12.to me. Because I had not been on any benefits at all. I do not
:12:12. > :12:18.understand how... Y six months for a start? You are not going to reach
:12:18. > :12:21.six mums and suddenly decide you're going to be an entrepreneur. It is
:12:21. > :12:30.off-putting for people that could be looking at that as a career
:12:30. > :12:34.choice. What capital did she use? had a loan of Prince Charles and
:12:34. > :12:40.charity. It is interesting, with that, you have to be making
:12:41. > :12:46.repayments straight away which I have got such a strong view on
:12:46. > :12:52.considering students who come out of university do not have to pay
:12:52. > :12:56.back their minds until they reach a certain income bracket. University
:12:56. > :13:02.was good for one thing, I ended up with the enterprising scheme where
:13:02. > :13:10.they give you �5,000. I got into that programme straight away and it
:13:10. > :13:16.was really good. You got your student loan. You have all had to
:13:16. > :13:26.sum or thought of some not entirely commercial support. The Prince's
:13:26. > :13:29.
:13:29. > :13:33.I don't understand. I applied for funding from the Welsh Assembly
:13:34. > :13:40.Government. I was not eligible because I did not have a degree. I
:13:40. > :13:45.don't understand a lot of these processes. If I have potential
:13:45. > :13:52.orders at the time and significant injures, I do not understand how
:13:52. > :13:58.having a degree is more important than what is happening. Did you
:13:58. > :14:06.have government money? We had a grant from the master scheme about
:14:06. > :14:12.two years in. What is the Masters team? It was opened by the Midlands.
:14:12. > :14:20.It was graphic design and Wear Development. We were such a small
:14:20. > :14:27.business. We had about 30 clients when I started in 2004, my grandad
:14:27. > :14:33.bought my first chocolate tin. Their age has brought some benefits,
:14:34. > :14:41.it had its downside. From my point of view, in my industry, chocolate
:14:41. > :14:50.and food is quite a snob industry. I found a lot of disrespect to
:14:50. > :15:00.start it when I was meeting by years. Had defaced other things
:15:00. > :15:01.
:15:01. > :15:07.because of your youth? -- had you faced. I am quite fortunate now. I
:15:07. > :15:10.had people in my business to have grey hair. I came across quite
:15:10. > :15:14.professional but you could tell they were thinking they had a kid
:15:14. > :15:24.sitting in front of them. White other headaches? You have not
:15:24. > :15:26.
:15:26. > :15:32.spoken much about the expansion of Your Business. You go from selling
:15:32. > :15:38.their own staff in your own little studio at to having to outsource it.
:15:38. > :15:45.The most difficult thing was the cost. I did not have anybody in
:15:45. > :15:53.that field who I could ask what the average Markup, what is a good
:15:53. > :15:58.price, what is a bad price. I were shooting in the dark. Even business
:15:58. > :16:05.centres, I never got any straight answers on price setting. They
:16:05. > :16:15.would recommend a business plan writing course Budgen no-one will
:16:15. > :16:19.
:16:19. > :16:27.ever tell me, no that is a rubbish price. -- but no-one. There is
:16:27. > :16:34.something wrong here. It was only until I chatted with two investment
:16:34. > :16:37.backers where I finally got some sound advice about my pricing.
:16:38. > :16:47.are the first person to have a positive remark about investment
:16:47. > :16:52.bank people. They help you. They gave you a straight answer. I am
:16:52. > :17:02.not going to lie about it. If it was not for them, I would still be
:17:02. > :17:04.
:17:04. > :17:13.charging too much. They taught you to put the price down. Yes. You do
:17:13. > :17:17.not have to worry about pricing because it is all 99p. I do not
:17:17. > :17:27.know about the rest of you, but business models do change and they
:17:27. > :17:36.changed quite drastically. I went from a retail site two Getting To
:17:37. > :17:43.the End goal. It is about selling advertising space which is
:17:43. > :17:47.different to what we were doing before.
:17:47. > :17:52.We spoke about the headaches and challenges you face in your
:17:52. > :17:56.businesses. I want to move to the next chapter which is where you
:17:56. > :18:00.will go in terms of selling your business or parts of your business.
:18:00. > :18:04.We often think of entrepreneurs hanging on for too long and not
:18:04. > :18:11.letting other people getting involved. Are you keen about having
:18:11. > :18:16.other investors taking part? You do not have any external investors.
:18:16. > :18:25.am in discussion by I own 100% of it. I want to get other people
:18:25. > :18:35.onboard. I am happy to give away part of the business. I am not
:18:35. > :18:41.bothered about saying I own 100%. How much could you use? 20-40%.
:18:41. > :18:51.That is what I am prepared to give away. What about you? I have
:18:51. > :19:00.
:19:00. > :19:04.investors now. Individuals do not make things up, teams do. Would you
:19:04. > :19:10.rather own 22-day to the scent of �10 million. That is a famous
:19:10. > :19:20.phrase. One had to present a nothing is not very good. How much
:19:20. > :19:29.are you -- do you own? They do 5%. Still in a scheme in the game?
:19:29. > :19:35.Still early on in the business. It gets tricky. Do I want to carry on
:19:35. > :19:44.or is it time to exit? The most important part is you should have
:19:44. > :19:48.an exit strategy. Do you have to have an Tasered strategy? You will
:19:48. > :19:58.stay in your business. You will carry on designing. -- exit
:19:58. > :20:00.
:20:00. > :20:07.strategy. As long as it makes money. I'm happy to stay. De-seed as, I am
:20:07. > :20:13.building this business are up, and together we said and then I retire.
:20:13. > :20:20.-- do you see it. I do see it as a long-term setting because I have
:20:20. > :20:29.nothing else going on. It is believed all or nothing. If you
:20:29. > :20:37.sold your business, which is set up another business? Hard to say.
:20:37. > :20:45.about you? We are looking at an exit strategy. It is knowing when
:20:45. > :20:51.to get to that strategy stage. Last here, Whitaker on the first two new
:20:51. > :20:59.investors. -- we talked on. There will be an exit strategy in the
:20:59. > :21:03.next five years. What we do? I will also -- always keep my hands in his
:21:03. > :21:11.-- chocolate that I have other responsibilities as well. What will
:21:11. > :21:15.you do? That is a good question. I have no idea at the moment.
:21:15. > :21:21.problem with investors is if they take too much of the business, and
:21:21. > :21:30.your state goes to know, you do not have been up of a business to feel
:21:30. > :21:35.like... The most important thing is, 40% of start-ups fell in the first
:21:35. > :21:43.year. Geeky thing is, any investor coming in the first year is such a
:21:43. > :21:53.huge risk, it depends on how much they put in, you have to think
:21:53. > :22:02.
:22:02. > :22:09.yourself, in the first year, which is the most crucial year at... It
:22:09. > :22:17.is a time and a place. Four investors it is more of a strategic
:22:17. > :22:24.role. I was losing a be part of my Business but the investors also
:22:24. > :22:31.owned a print company. A product and Industry, the perfect fit far
:22:31. > :22:38.as is the raw product and the packaging. We have become a part of
:22:38. > :22:43.a bigger business. That was important for me in. My role in the
:22:43. > :22:48.business is very specific. I have been there from the start and I
:22:48. > :22:55.developed many recipes. I am very much the face of the business.
:22:55. > :23:02.However small my role is, I will still be very influential because
:23:02. > :23:10.it is my brand and I do all of the recipe development. That is
:23:10. > :23:18.important. For my company, the investor's own a number company. --
:23:18. > :23:23.another company. We could have a 3 million pound portal without having
:23:23. > :23:29.to pay for it because we had the way company backing out business.
:23:29. > :23:36.If it came to the stage of exit, the company is part of this company