:00:11. > :00:16.capacity for enriched uranium. Now, The Bottom Line. We will not be
:00:16. > :00:21.talking about any estate agents, car mechanics, or financial
:00:21. > :00:26.advisers but we will be talking about them. They, like so many
:00:26. > :00:31.people, sell specialist knowledge. But they are also perversions we
:00:32. > :00:37.also grumble about. So today, the curious business of expert advice.
:00:37. > :00:47.Plus, what is the place of religion in work? Each week, influential
:00:47. > :00:49.
:00:49. > :00:59.business leaders gather for The Bottom Line. Now you can see it as
:00:59. > :01:07.
:01:07. > :01:17.Let us start by spending the next few minutes by meeting our guests.
:01:17. > :01:17.
:01:17. > :01:27.The first is gather MacGregor. -- Gavin. He is also the author of the
:01:27. > :01:28.
:01:28. > :01:37.Mrs Moneypenny: -- Mrs Moneypenny column. We are very low volume. We
:01:37. > :01:43.for lot less than 100 jobs a year. It is a specialist business. We
:01:43. > :01:50.sell specialist services. Each member of staff helps recruit four
:01:50. > :01:55.people. Yes. We are not in the recruitment business. We are
:01:55. > :01:59.between a management consultancy and a private detective agency.
:01:59. > :02:06.your speciality his third relations business. Communication spot
:02:06. > :02:10.stopped communicating to any body and needs it. We work for many
:02:10. > :02:18.foundations. All sorts of public companies. Anybody who needs to
:02:18. > :02:23.communicate. It is people we deal with governments. A roaring trade
:02:23. > :02:33.in Brussels. People who need to communicate to share holders
:02:33. > :02:34.
:02:34. > :02:40.already body. That business, the communications business, is there
:02:40. > :02:45.any sign of it beginning to dip again? No. The times people need to
:02:45. > :02:53.high-rise is when they get away size where they want to spend more
:02:53. > :03:02.time working out what the cost of capital is. You Ryder -- you either
:03:02. > :03:05.cut down or you get somebody to do it. Rupert Soames is the chief
:03:05. > :03:10.executive of Aggreko. You have had some interesting business in the
:03:10. > :03:17.last year. Let us talk about the Japanese tsunami. Your services
:03:17. > :03:23.were in demand. We provided for people when they needed it. The
:03:23. > :03:29.Japanese example was when they needed both. They needed a huge
:03:29. > :03:34.amount of power and they needed it quickly. We mobilised to very large
:03:34. > :03:39.power stations. We got it there within three months. Built the
:03:39. > :03:44.permanent equivalent of that and it would take you five years. We have
:03:44. > :03:48.our kit in containers ready to go and we do everything from A
:03:48. > :03:56.farmer's market on a damp Saturday morning through to the Olympic
:03:56. > :04:03.Games up to providing power for whole countries. The power is boil?
:04:03. > :04:08.Yes, gas and diesel. You would take five years to do what you do.
:04:08. > :04:13.build a permanent one. What price of energy and electricity are they
:04:13. > :04:17.paying for the fact you have managed to do it so quickly? Five
:04:17. > :04:24.times the long-term price? It is not far different in terms of the
:04:24. > :04:29.equipment. It is very efficient. The cost of the fuel is different.
:04:29. > :04:35.Permanent power stations, you will have great big gas pipelines. A lot
:04:35. > :04:38.of these run on diesel. People do not hire us because we are cheap.
:04:39. > :04:47.They need us very quickly and because they need us for a short
:04:47. > :04:55.period of time. You started off as a disc-jockey when you're younger,
:04:55. > :05:04.a college student. Glastonbury. was a DJ at a nightclub. That was
:05:04. > :05:13.in my youth. One of my most valued customers was Michael Eavis at
:05:13. > :05:18.Glastonbury. A bank here. Finally, Gavin Oldham. He is chief executive
:05:18. > :05:23.of The Share Centre. That is a retail stockbroker. Talk us through
:05:23. > :05:30.what service you do provide. You give some advice and also transact
:05:30. > :05:34.for people who want to buy some shares themselves. I have been
:05:34. > :05:40.passionate about encouraging personal share ownership in the UK.
:05:40. > :05:45.20 years ago, I set up The Share Centre and The Share Centre helps
:05:45. > :05:51.people who choose their own investments. We do provide advice
:05:51. > :05:56.for them as well. We look after about 300,000 customer accounts and
:05:56. > :06:05.we have 150 people in Buckinghamshire. What is the
:06:05. > :06:09.difference between The Share Centre and other stockbrokers?
:06:09. > :06:14.traditional one is a wealth manager these days and they take decisions
:06:14. > :06:19.on behalf of their clients and does a wealthy people. We look after
:06:19. > :06:22.people of whatever their means are all their experiences. We have
:06:22. > :06:29.practise accounts, loads of information on how to do things and
:06:29. > :06:35.we walk alongside the investor all the way. One is a practise account?
:06:35. > :06:39.You can buy and sell and see how well you do? You can put �15,000 a
:06:39. > :06:43.virtual money in your account and a salad at your heart's desire. He
:06:43. > :06:48.won't make any real profits but you will get a lot of experience.
:06:48. > :06:58.us talk about serve and expertise. In some sense, you were all
:06:58. > :06:58.
:06:58. > :07:03.somewhat in that business. -- are. I'm a buyer. I do not know what is
:07:03. > :07:07.wrong with my castaway asking mechanic. He tells me I need an
:07:07. > :07:11.expensive repair. Economists are obsessed with information. The
:07:11. > :07:17.difference between the purchase her and the seller of the servers. It
:07:17. > :07:23.is a common revelation. You seek advice from the person selling you
:07:23. > :07:29.the product because they know more about it and you do. It can be an
:07:29. > :07:33.electric shock or anywhere. I am wondering whether these markets,
:07:33. > :07:38.there is a symmetry of interest on knowledge, whether these markets
:07:38. > :07:43.work very well and what you do was people who sell expertise? What do
:07:43. > :07:50.you do to make the market work well? Rupert, I am guessing you do
:07:50. > :07:56.have to specify. To defy % of our business is emergencies. People are
:07:56. > :08:02.desperate. -- 25%. I jolly well hope our salespeople know more
:08:02. > :08:06.about what to do than the customers do. It is very simple, in my mind.
:08:06. > :08:14.It depends if you want to be in business for five minutes or 50
:08:14. > :08:17.years. We have opportunities every day to go and talk with our clients
:08:17. > :08:23.when they're under stress or need stuff but we have been in business
:08:23. > :08:27.or 50 years because we do not and what the normal day-to-day
:08:28. > :08:32.relationships are, they're fine, you do that every day and they're
:08:32. > :08:39.easier when you have a continuing relationship. What is difficult is
:08:39. > :08:44.when you have a long-term depression, like a lawyer. --
:08:44. > :08:50.profession. How would you choose which is the right one? You hope
:08:50. > :08:56.you're not going to have to deal with one. Most services, like the
:08:56. > :09:01.car mechanic, you go at your local garage and if they give you a bad
:09:01. > :09:06.service, you go to a different garage. That's all well and good if
:09:06. > :09:09.you're going to a mechanic. If he went to the car salesman, a
:09:10. > :09:13.salesman whose interest is too silly that car, you can't go to
:09:13. > :09:23.somebody who was going to act on your behalf and say the difference
:09:23. > :09:26.
:09:26. > :09:36.between this and that car, who was going to -- who is going to sell
:09:36. > :09:37.
:09:37. > :09:41.you that car. -- to sell you. He is going to get a bonus. You must
:09:41. > :09:44.eliminate that conflict of interest. You were talking about it before.
:09:44. > :09:51.When people have an emergency, you explain their options and what they
:09:51. > :09:56.can do. In our business, 30 years, not as long as Aggreko but like you,
:09:56. > :10:02.I came into this business and I bought it because I believed in
:10:03. > :10:07.what it did and it has eliminated, we do not pay any about in the
:10:07. > :10:14.pitch will people a percentage. -- any of our individual people. That
:10:14. > :10:20.is unusual for our industry. It would be helpful. Not selling one
:10:20. > :10:26.make. What other brands do you represent? That is an example. In
:10:26. > :10:30.our industry, we have gone through real change. In 1986, the single
:10:30. > :10:33.capacities, as we call them, the difference of people dealing on the
:10:33. > :10:40.road account and advising and walking alongside others, that was
:10:40. > :10:43.done away with. -- on their own. As a result, it has led to the kind of
:10:43. > :10:49.excesses but in investment banks and banking generally which I
:10:49. > :10:54.believe has been a very large part of the financial crisis because we
:10:54. > :10:57.put these together, there are immense conflicts between
:10:57. > :11:00.businesses and people and as a result, we have all kinds of
:11:00. > :11:04.problems. What I want to know is this. The
:11:04. > :11:08.reason why these markets in information and expertise and
:11:08. > :11:13.advice, one reason why they may not worked very well is that if you
:11:13. > :11:17.were, let's say, the estate agency. If you like the honest estate agent,
:11:17. > :11:22.you're not going to do very well. Rupert, you talked about reputation.
:11:22. > :11:28.That is what you work for and you want to be in business in 50 years.
:11:28. > :11:33.If I am an honest estate agent, and I am not exaggerating, I am not in
:11:33. > :11:36.business for five minutes. A good on -- example of estate agents is
:11:36. > :11:41.you have three estate agents to value your house, which one do you
:11:41. > :11:48.pick? The one who exaggerates. Not the one who says, I'm terribly
:11:48. > :11:52.sorry. Clearly, I wouldn't make too much of it in terms of the estate
:11:52. > :12:00.agents or the motor mechanics. We have got to the place we are being
:12:00. > :12:04.with these sorts of complexities of the last 10,000 years and we kind
:12:04. > :12:08.of model prove. The conflicts we are talking about in these large
:12:08. > :12:18.institutions was never before existed, the financial institutions,
:12:18. > :12:20.
:12:20. > :12:26.Ra more recent occurrence. -- which. -- are a. People are very savvy at
:12:26. > :12:31.buying. Why aren't there more car mechanics? Why do they not make
:12:32. > :12:37.more money? This car mechanic and that, can it. It is the reason
:12:37. > :12:47.people would ask for you instead of somebody else. Who was your
:12:47. > :12:47.
:12:47. > :12:50.principal competitor? We have lots of competitive. And no peers?
:12:50. > :12:56.think it's been about understanding that people buy from people, that
:12:56. > :12:59.is what it comes down to. personal recommendation of the
:12:59. > :13:04.person was used that mechanic previously and got a good service
:13:04. > :13:09.means everything and that is how you align the person buying your
:13:09. > :13:14.service and you because if anybody in my business blows up our
:13:14. > :13:18.reputation, that is 30 years down the drain. You were absolutely
:13:18. > :13:22.right. It is very difficult to go by that quality of service if your
:13:22. > :13:28.interest is directly against the interest of the person who you're
:13:28. > :13:32.actually dealing with on the side. It does need to be very Clear who
:13:32. > :13:37.you are dealing with that. Is he really acting on behalf of you or
:13:37. > :13:46.acting on behalf of himself? There is such a thing as probation will
:13:46. > :13:52.epics. Lawyers, for example. -- professional ethics. Doctors.
:13:52. > :13:57.Professionals to sell expertise. They are expected to behave in a
:13:57. > :14:02.certain restraint kind of way. There are rules against advertising
:14:02. > :14:12.in the medical services. There is a Hippocratic oath. All sorts of
:14:12. > :14:15.stuff that makes doctors feel like, my job is not about selling. This
:14:15. > :14:19.whole area of epics is really important. If you're generally
:14:19. > :14:24.doing something for the person you're trying to serve, you're a
:14:24. > :14:29.big sum in the right place. That is what a doctor is trying to do. --
:14:29. > :14:34.your ethics. That is what a lawyer is trying to do. I think that
:14:34. > :14:39.really does lead to the whole issue of actually directing people and
:14:39. > :14:42.the care that people have for others. That ought to underpin
:14:42. > :14:52.every good agency relationship where basically people are doing
:14:52. > :14:56.
:14:56. > :15:02.You do have this problem. If you have these are great ethical things,
:15:02. > :15:09.ultimately, people organise things for their own convenience. You are
:15:09. > :15:17.20% more likely to have serious consequences and die of an ill the
:15:17. > :15:23.-- any on Saturday rather than Monday to Friday. Because the
:15:23. > :15:29.consultants are out playing golf. You have to be careful. These
:15:30. > :15:37.relationships we have a customer hiring a professional - it is very
:15:37. > :15:43.general. In some ways, your sharers a point you as experts to run their
:15:43. > :15:50.companies, don't they? You do not have shareholders? Might company by
:15:50. > :15:55.all the shares. The other two, you have shareholders? In any
:15:55. > :16:00.commercial company, the directors get comfortable with the
:16:00. > :16:04.shareholders of a company. The shareholders want a long-term,
:16:04. > :16:09.successful company and they will only get that if they look after
:16:09. > :16:13.their customers proper. Rupert has had a business which has been
:16:13. > :16:18.around for many years. He has done that because he has been looking
:16:18. > :16:24.after the customers and the shareholders. There is a
:16:24. > :16:30.convergence of interest. If you can get it to work, it is very good.
:16:30. > :16:40.You are an agent of your shareholders? I always say to
:16:40. > :16:41.
:16:41. > :16:50.people. I am a hard -- who hired hand. That has been a really say
:16:50. > :16:55.she -- relationship. Management treat shareholders like mushrooms
:16:55. > :17:03.and they keep them in the dark and occasionally throw money on them.
:17:03. > :17:09.Over the last 30 or 40 years there has been these dual track approach.
:17:09. > :17:14.One of getting managers to have been just an to have improved
:17:14. > :17:21.governments. On the whole, and direction of both of those had been
:17:21. > :17:28.correct and have corrected a problem. In the 1960s, there was no
:17:28. > :17:32.connection between a ownership and management. I would like to cambers
:17:32. > :17:38.your views on religion. There is a debate going on in this country
:17:38. > :17:42.about the role of religion in the state. A local council was told it
:17:42. > :17:50.was not allowed to have prayers before council meeting. What place
:17:50. > :18:00.does religion have in business? Gavin, you're in the Church of
:18:00. > :18:00.
:18:00. > :18:06.England? The General Synod. I am a member of the advisory group.
:18:06. > :18:11.us that affect your day off work when you go into the office?
:18:11. > :18:17.much is made of the symbolism of religion and not enough of the
:18:17. > :18:23.values which underpin it. Let me explain what I mean, in most
:18:23. > :18:29.businesses, we have the values we based the business on. To treat
:18:29. > :18:34.others as you wish to be treated yourself, for example. It was
:18:34. > :18:39.brought about as a result of canvassing all the staff. Can you
:18:39. > :18:44.see a bit of a relationship they between love your neighbour as
:18:44. > :18:48.yourself and basically treat others as you would treat yourself? There
:18:48. > :18:53.is a commonality. When you look at the Gospels, they are about how we
:18:53. > :18:59.should behave with one another and that is one the teaching is. It is
:18:59. > :19:04.not about the symbolism, what we wear, whether we were any closer a
:19:04. > :19:10.head gear, it is about how we behave with people that we meet and
:19:10. > :19:15.come across day by day. Everybody does that on the street. Yawn
:19:15. > :19:19.normally this - you're normally ethical in new business life and it
:19:19. > :19:24.reflects your religious content without having to be explicitly
:19:24. > :19:30.Christian in your behaviour? way you should behave in a decent
:19:30. > :19:38.society is to care about others and have respect for them. One of their
:19:38. > :19:44.core value is respect for others. Come on, you'd soon. In Aggreko we
:19:44. > :19:51.have about 6,000 people. I stopped counting the 22 religions. We need
:19:51. > :19:57.to be sensitive about that. But we do not let it impinge into our
:19:57. > :20:01.daily business for a couple reasons. First of all, CEOs to think they're
:20:01. > :20:05.geniuses at business are bad enough but if you also -- if they also
:20:05. > :20:10.think they are gone it makes some really bad. But I agree that it
:20:10. > :20:15.does not stop you having a real strong foundation, a strong ethical
:20:15. > :20:24.and moral foundation. Be at the 10 Commandments - they have some
:20:24. > :20:34.pretty strong things. Do not cover it somebody else's things. Adultery
:20:34. > :20:39.is it bad thing and it is lethal in in the office. I am all in favour
:20:39. > :20:45.of having an underpinning of morality about the way you do
:20:46. > :20:51.business but not pretending that we are ourselves of God. It's hello,
:20:51. > :20:57.what about you take? His religion something that can be tolerated,
:20:57. > :21:03.promoted? We work for companies all over the world, candidates all over
:21:03. > :21:08.the world and therefore you have to be respectful of people in the
:21:08. > :21:12.workplace. I was raised in a strong Anglican household and I hope I
:21:12. > :21:16.have raised my children in a similar way. It is all about doing
:21:16. > :21:24.something else for other people before you ever think about
:21:24. > :21:31.yourself. This is what happens. Would not your shareholders...
:21:31. > :21:37.not have any shareholders. Wouldn't they say I expected to do things
:21:37. > :21:43.for the company? Shareholders are investing for the 25 years. You're
:21:44. > :21:50.night, who are about 50, will not be able to draw a pension for
:21:51. > :21:56.another 25 years. In those 25 years they would be best served if we do
:21:56. > :22:00.good to other people. Couldn't it will split up, good said look for
:22:00. > :22:04.me where things are nicer and it was said look for me with things
:22:04. > :22:08.are nasty. Do not leave them because wants to say goodbye to me
:22:08. > :22:14.you'll never see me again. People do unconditional things other
:22:14. > :22:18.people. They genuinely have that care and personally I feel that is
:22:18. > :22:22.part of the unconditional love which is God, which is flowing
:22:23. > :22:28.through people, and if it goes free, it is the most wonderful experience
:22:28. > :22:32.and interestingly, it is not in any way dependent on what religion you
:22:32. > :22:39.practice. The incredible presumption that God only talks
:22:39. > :22:45.through Christians... God will talk to anyone got wants to talk through.
:22:45. > :22:53.You are talking through a liberal - - as a liberal-minded Christian,
:22:53. > :22:57.there are Christians to a more hard? Of the Anglican
:22:57. > :23:01.interpretation is often seen as being based on the three-legged
:23:01. > :23:06.stool - tradition, scripture and reason will stop it is true to say
:23:06. > :23:13.that some people weigh more heavily on the tradition and particular
:23:13. > :23:21.bits on -- of the scripture then the logic. The logic to me is the
:23:21. > :23:27.unconditional love. That is what underpins all sorts of businesses.
:23:27. > :23:31.If you act like that you will have a good reputation, people will
:23:31. > :23:36.recommend you and you will be around for 50 years. When you do
:23:36. > :23:41.the calculation, you can get an extra three hours a week for 50
:23:41. > :23:46.other people by forcing them to work on the Sabbath or coming up
:23:46. > :23:51.with a dependent policy, the cost benefits tell you is not worth it.
:23:51. > :23:56.This is not the only issue as pertaining to mothers, part-timers,
:23:56. > :24:04.there are lots of challenge us and in every case, the thing to do is
:24:04. > :24:08.to be tolerant, respect for and help somebody else. In its to be
:24:08. > :24:13.brave enough to encompass what people want to do. But it does not
:24:13. > :24:21.want it to be so broad that people coming in sneakers and at one pair
:24:21. > :24:31.of jeans. Certainly not in my business. I notice you do not have
:24:31. > :24:31.
:24:31. > :24:36.a tie on today. On that night. Let us draw to a close. Just time to
:24:36. > :24:43.thank out guests - Heather MacGregor, Rupert Soames and Gavin