0:00:02 > 0:00:09This programme contains some strong language
0:00:09 > 0:00:10It was a very bad day
0:00:10 > 0:00:13and the driver just decides to go faster and faster.
0:00:13 > 0:00:17# Thundering through the night with the moon in my eyes
0:00:17 > 0:00:22# Down into the daybreak and the new sunrise
0:00:22 > 0:00:25# All I found was loneliness in the crush of the crowd
0:00:25 > 0:00:27# But I'm bound for freedom now
0:00:27 > 0:00:29# I've got power and speed I'm never slowing down
0:00:29 > 0:00:32# I'm a runaway train driver. #
0:00:32 > 0:00:35You've never felt that Tim was faking it, did you?
0:00:35 > 0:00:41You always felt that his irritation was 24 karat.
0:00:41 > 0:00:44He does the 200 gigs a year, sometimes to six people,
0:00:44 > 0:00:48and every gig he does, he hits the ground running
0:00:48 > 0:00:50with this furious intensity
0:00:50 > 0:00:53that is totally overwhelming.
0:00:53 > 0:00:58# This is not the green train
0:00:58 > 0:01:00# This is not the green train. #
0:01:00 > 0:01:02He's an Evangelist.
0:01:02 > 0:01:05He harks back to the troubadour tradition.
0:01:05 > 0:01:08He turns up at a town with his guitar, plugs it in.
0:01:08 > 0:01:11Come one, come all. Here are my songs.
0:01:11 > 0:01:13This is how the world is, according to me.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18TV was interesting.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21He had kind of a bleak approach to the way he wrote.
0:01:21 > 0:01:25He reminded me more of the way Elvis Costello approached a song,
0:01:25 > 0:01:27or Reckless Eric.
0:01:27 > 0:01:31These are the interesting writers, you know?
0:01:31 > 0:01:32Come at it like a poet.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35Also come at it from the unobvious.
0:01:35 > 0:01:36The anti-obvious angle.
0:01:46 > 0:01:48But it's the lyrics.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51Television's Over. Back From The Dead.
0:01:51 > 0:01:53I've written a few songs in my time,
0:01:53 > 0:01:56and whenever I write lyrics, TV Smith hovers over my shoulder.
0:01:56 > 0:01:59Just like, "Make it count."
0:02:02 > 0:02:04(TV SMITH) I was born in Hornchurch,
0:02:04 > 0:02:07the east suburbs of London.
0:02:07 > 0:02:10We then moved to Devon.
0:02:10 > 0:02:13And so I was basically brought up from the age of eight
0:02:13 > 0:02:14in a tiny village in Devon.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17I think I was a very shy child.
0:02:17 > 0:02:20I would never have imagined when I was ten years old
0:02:20 > 0:02:23that I would end up going on stage in front of hundreds of people.
0:02:23 > 0:02:25That was absolutely the furthest thing from my mind.
0:02:25 > 0:02:28I was much more poetry-orientated when I was younger.
0:02:28 > 0:02:32Poetry is a safe place for a shy child who wants to express himself.
0:02:32 > 0:02:35MUSIC: "Ladytron" by Roxy Music
0:02:35 > 0:02:39At some point when I was a teenager, I started listening to music
0:02:39 > 0:02:41and realising some of these musicians were using
0:02:41 > 0:02:45the same techniques as I was trying to do in poetry.
0:02:45 > 0:02:47Apart from listening to records,
0:02:47 > 0:02:50one other very life-changing thing happened.
0:02:50 > 0:02:51I went to see my first gigs.
0:02:56 > 0:03:00Individuals that hadn't bought into the pop music thing.
0:03:00 > 0:03:02Over everything else, that was important.
0:03:02 > 0:03:04You were hearing a voice that was not a dumbed down
0:03:04 > 0:03:08voice of the crowd, but someone who had something special to say.
0:03:08 > 0:03:10Although I did quite well at school,
0:03:10 > 0:03:13I didn't see where it was going for me.
0:03:13 > 0:03:15The only thing that really excited me was writing.
0:03:15 > 0:03:17Whether it was prose or songs,
0:03:17 > 0:03:20the further I got into my teenage years,
0:03:20 > 0:03:22the more that was my one obsession.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25There was still a kind of vestigial interest in art,
0:03:25 > 0:03:28and I did leave school and go to art college for a year.
0:03:28 > 0:03:31But almost as soon as I was there, I just dumped the coursework
0:03:31 > 0:03:33and started working on getting my band together
0:03:33 > 0:03:35and rehearsing and writing.
0:03:38 > 0:03:47# Well, what a sho-owbiz kids. #
0:03:47 > 0:03:50The band wasn't going for really very long.
0:03:50 > 0:03:52It was only about seven months or something.
0:03:52 > 0:03:55But we started doing gigs, and very early on,
0:03:55 > 0:03:57we supported George Melly.
0:03:57 > 0:03:59A lot of it was thematically copied
0:03:59 > 0:04:03from The Velvet Underground, or from Bowie.
0:04:03 > 0:04:04It was kind of a lot of scattergun stuff.
0:04:04 > 0:04:06I didn't really know what it was about myself.
0:04:06 > 0:04:09It was just teenage angst coming out unformed.
0:04:09 > 0:04:12And that's why I don't really think much
0:04:12 > 0:04:14of the stuff I was putting out then.
0:04:14 > 0:04:17But somehow, it was getting something out of me
0:04:17 > 0:04:20that was in there and I needed to get out.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23MUSIC: "Gimme Danger" by The Stooges
0:04:23 > 0:04:25I was in my third year of graphic design
0:04:25 > 0:04:27and he was doing a foundation year.
0:04:27 > 0:04:29I knew his bass player, Bean, more.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32So I think Bean came round one night and brought Tim round.
0:04:32 > 0:04:34We immediately, as soon as we met each other,
0:04:34 > 0:04:36we had something that clicked.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38I don't think you can pick that sort of thing apart.
0:04:38 > 0:04:40When you're teenage boyfriend and girlfriend,
0:04:40 > 0:04:42you know what you are and you know what you want,
0:04:42 > 0:04:44and somehow it just happens.
0:04:44 > 0:04:46Gaye wasn't playing an instrument at all when I met her,
0:04:46 > 0:04:47but she was a big music fan.
0:04:47 > 0:04:49The decision to form a band together
0:04:49 > 0:04:52stemmed out of the fact that we'd become partners.
0:04:52 > 0:04:55# Kiss me like the ocean breeze. #
0:04:55 > 0:04:56He gave me a guitar and said, "Play this."
0:04:56 > 0:04:58He probably did the same thing to Gaye.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01"This is the G string, this is the A string."
0:05:01 > 0:05:03"Right! I'm off!"
0:05:05 > 0:05:09I was working in a sweet factory, and I remember the first night
0:05:09 > 0:05:12seeing some old geezer working there.
0:05:12 > 0:05:15I said, "I'm only doing this as a temporary job, till I get myself sorted."
0:05:15 > 0:05:17and he said, "That's what I said."
0:05:17 > 0:05:20And that sent a real shiver down my spine.
0:05:20 > 0:05:23Four months later, I was still there,
0:05:23 > 0:05:28and I didn't really have any prospect of getting out, really.
0:05:28 > 0:05:30And luckily, I was made redundant.
0:05:30 > 0:05:32And then I was really thrown out.
0:05:32 > 0:05:34Really had to decide what's happening now.
0:05:34 > 0:05:37And that was really the point where it crystallised
0:05:37 > 0:05:39that Gaye and me WERE going to move to London.
0:05:39 > 0:05:42We WERE going to form this band. We weren't going to do
0:05:42 > 0:05:43these rubbish jobs.
0:05:43 > 0:05:45She was working in a factory as well.
0:05:45 > 0:05:47We were going to make something happen.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50It's an exciting moment in your life, you know?
0:05:55 > 0:05:59I started to read in the NME, or Sounds,
0:05:59 > 0:06:01or whatever it was back then,
0:06:01 > 0:06:02about the Sex Pistols.
0:06:02 > 0:06:05They covered a few of their first gigs.
0:06:05 > 0:06:07All round the country were quirky characters.
0:06:07 > 0:06:10You've got Devoto and Shelley up there in Bolton.
0:06:10 > 0:06:11Stooges fans, basically.
0:06:11 > 0:06:14One or two in each city, just waiting for something to happen.
0:06:14 > 0:06:16Suddenly there's the Sex Pistols. Everyone's going,
0:06:16 > 0:06:19"There's a group being compared to The Stooges in London.
0:06:19 > 0:06:22"That's what we're trying to do." And TV's doing his glam rock band,
0:06:22 > 0:06:25but in his head he's kind of gone that little bit further.
0:06:25 > 0:06:26It's more psychotic glam rock.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28Very parallel to Shelley and Devoto up in Bolton.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31They're sat in the college room, trying to put this band together.
0:06:31 > 0:06:34Can't play at all. No idea what they're doing.
0:06:34 > 0:06:35And they read about the Pistols
0:06:35 > 0:06:37and go to see them, and that's how they get going.
0:06:37 > 0:06:39And TV and Gaye moved to London
0:06:39 > 0:06:41because they knew that's where the action was.
0:06:41 > 0:06:43It's pretty amazing they did that. 18, 19 years old.
0:06:43 > 0:06:45Just get on the train and go to London,
0:06:45 > 0:06:47because they want to be part of a music scene.
0:06:47 > 0:06:50That's what makes it interesting. From the start, TV is an outsider.
0:06:50 > 0:06:51Outside the punk elite.
0:06:51 > 0:06:54But he's one of the original punks in London, going to these gigs.
0:06:54 > 0:06:57I was living in a 2,000 inhabitants village in Devon,
0:06:57 > 0:06:59and I was coming up to London and seeing gigs
0:06:59 > 0:07:02that had more people in the audience than lived in my entire village.
0:07:02 > 0:07:07MUSIC: "Ambition" by Subway Sect
0:07:07 > 0:07:10We were going out to see bands almost straight away, you know?
0:07:10 > 0:07:13Seeing a few concerts by the Sex Pistols.
0:07:13 > 0:07:17And within months, the 100 Club punk festival happened.
0:07:17 > 0:07:19There was a whole world opening up to us.
0:07:19 > 0:07:22# I've been walking along down this shallow slope
0:07:22 > 0:07:27# Looking for nothing particularly. #
0:07:32 > 0:07:35We spent the first couple of months sort of settling in.
0:07:35 > 0:07:38Then, when we felt Gaye was at a point where
0:07:38 > 0:07:40she knew the songs well enough that we could play them,
0:07:40 > 0:07:42we started looking for a guitarist.
0:07:42 > 0:07:46When Howard replied, there was a whole load of things about him
0:07:46 > 0:07:49that all seemed right. One was that he could play
0:07:49 > 0:07:50the stuff I was showing him,
0:07:50 > 0:07:52and it still sounded like the song that I'd written.
0:07:52 > 0:07:55One was that he lived just down the road,
0:07:55 > 0:07:57and the other was that he worked in a music shop
0:07:57 > 0:07:59that had a rehearsal centre behind it.
0:07:59 > 0:08:03So we were kind of in for cheap rehearsals as well.
0:08:03 > 0:08:07And that's where I met Howard, actually, and the rest of the band.
0:08:07 > 0:08:09Because they were rehearsing there.
0:08:09 > 0:08:11And Howard was the manager of the place.
0:08:11 > 0:08:13I'd got myself a job there, so me and Howard
0:08:13 > 0:08:15were actually working in this place.
0:08:15 > 0:08:17And he'd just joined up with the band,
0:08:17 > 0:08:20and I'd actually just bought a drum kit from a friend of mine,
0:08:20 > 0:08:23who also worked there, who was also a drummer.
0:08:23 > 0:08:25I said, "Look, this is what you've got to do."
0:08:25 > 0:08:28HE DRUMS A RHYTHM
0:08:28 > 0:08:30And he couldn't. He tried.
0:08:30 > 0:08:32HE DRUMS OUT OF TIME
0:08:32 > 0:08:34Couldn't do it. I said, "Come on, you've got to try
0:08:34 > 0:08:37"and get this leg separate from your hand!"
0:08:37 > 0:08:38And all he could do was...
0:08:38 > 0:08:40HE DRUMS BASIC RHYTHM
0:08:40 > 0:08:44And if you know any of the early Adverts songs, One Chord Wonders...
0:08:44 > 0:08:45HE DRUMS ALONG WITH ADVERTS SONG
0:08:45 > 0:08:50MUSIC: "One Chord Wonders" by The Adverts
0:08:50 > 0:08:52Laurie was not a normal drummer.
0:08:52 > 0:08:54He had this kind of rigid
0:08:54 > 0:08:58but extremely fast style that was very unconventional.
0:08:58 > 0:09:01I didn't even know if I liked it first of all,
0:09:01 > 0:09:03but there was no denying
0:09:03 > 0:09:05that his playing was something different
0:09:05 > 0:09:06from anything else that was going on.
0:09:06 > 0:09:09(LAURIE) That came about from not knowing what I was doing!
0:09:09 > 0:09:12So it was a kind of a knife's edge, whether or not
0:09:12 > 0:09:14Laurie was going to be in the band. But I'm glad that he was,
0:09:14 > 0:09:17because it gave the records a very distinctive sound.
0:09:18 > 0:09:22We were The Adverts. We were a real band, and we were ready to go.
0:09:25 > 0:09:27Well, I'd take the lyrics and the chord changes to rehearsal.
0:09:27 > 0:09:29I'd have worked with Gaye.
0:09:29 > 0:09:31Her bass lines became almost like a counter
0:09:31 > 0:09:34to what the vocals were doing.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37The only problem for Gaye was that as soon as we started
0:09:37 > 0:09:40rehearsing with Laurie, the songs sped up a great deal.
0:09:40 > 0:09:43With Howard, he pretty much played it as I wrote it,
0:09:43 > 0:09:46with some additional lead pieces, which I had no clue about.
0:09:46 > 0:09:49I mean, all the lead pieces in the first album, for example,
0:09:49 > 0:09:50they're all Howard's.
0:09:50 > 0:09:54And then with Laurie, I gave him absolutely no guidance whatsoever.
0:09:54 > 0:09:56I knew nothing about drums.
0:09:56 > 0:09:58So it was basically, "Right, we've got these songs.
0:09:58 > 0:10:00"The three of us are playing them. This is what we do.
0:10:00 > 0:10:03"What are you going to do?"
0:10:03 > 0:10:06And what he did was he bashed out his version of the songs
0:10:06 > 0:10:09and sped everything up about twice as much as we'd been learning them.
0:10:09 > 0:10:12And that did mean I had to annunciate very precisely.
0:10:12 > 0:10:16I had to learn where to breathe. Where to find space to breathe.
0:10:17 > 0:10:20That was the start of me really finding my voice
0:10:20 > 0:10:23as a percussive instrument as well.
0:10:23 > 0:10:24So the words start punching out.
0:10:24 > 0:10:27They're not just an expression of what you're trying to say.
0:10:27 > 0:10:29The voice is also a rhythmic instrument
0:10:29 > 0:10:31and a percussive instrument.
0:10:31 > 0:10:34I don't think I really understood that in songwriting before.
0:10:34 > 0:10:36So we were all on a learning curve, for sure.
0:10:43 > 0:10:46Well, The Roxy was the brainchild of Andy Czezowski.
0:10:46 > 0:10:48He put out the word in Sniffing Glue,
0:10:48 > 0:10:50the fanzine that was going at the time,
0:10:50 > 0:10:53"Just let me know that you can actually string two chords together
0:10:53 > 0:10:54and come down and play."
0:10:54 > 0:10:56I don't know how Tim approached Andy,
0:10:56 > 0:10:59but that was the first time I'd seen The Adverts.
0:11:05 > 0:11:07I think I'd come across Tim and Gaye.
0:11:07 > 0:11:09Their faces were familiar.
0:11:09 > 0:11:11So when I saw them on stage, they weren't total strangers.
0:11:11 > 0:11:13They had a unique sound to them.
0:11:13 > 0:11:16Very, very amateurish, obviously, at that time.
0:11:16 > 0:11:18But so were the majority of the bands, you know?
0:11:18 > 0:11:20I introduced Tim to Jake,
0:11:20 > 0:11:22because I'd seen The Adverts and I said to Jake,
0:11:22 > 0:11:24"Check out these guys. You might like 'em."
0:11:24 > 0:11:26So Gaye and me went round to the office.
0:11:26 > 0:11:28Jake already had a contract of about two pages.
0:11:28 > 0:11:30And signed it there and then.
0:11:30 > 0:11:32A single on Stiff Records.
0:11:32 > 0:11:34We'd only done about five gigs.
0:11:34 > 0:11:37They wanted now music and now people.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40I had no problem with Stiff Records.
0:11:40 > 0:11:42Even when I thought I was being done over,
0:11:42 > 0:11:44I could see the point of it.
0:11:44 > 0:11:47For example, the cover of One Chord Wonders.
0:11:47 > 0:11:50They put Barney Bubbles on to design the cover,
0:11:50 > 0:11:53and when we got invited in to Stiff to see what he'd done...
0:11:53 > 0:11:55well, I felt I'd been Stiffed.
0:11:55 > 0:11:58But what can you say? It was a brilliant cover.
0:11:58 > 0:12:00They created an icon out of Gaye
0:12:00 > 0:12:04and they put The Adverts firmly in punk rock history.
0:12:06 > 0:12:09There's no question. That cover, which I would not have agreed to,
0:12:09 > 0:12:12was a massive step forward for the band.
0:12:12 > 0:12:13< Here comes The Adverts, right?
0:12:13 > 0:12:15CHEERING
0:12:21 > 0:12:24# I wonder what we'll play for you tonight
0:12:24 > 0:12:26# Something heavy or something light
0:12:26 > 0:12:31# Something to set your soul alight
0:12:31 > 0:12:34# I wonder how we'll answer when you say
0:12:34 > 0:12:37# "We don't like you, go away
0:12:37 > 0:12:42- # "Come back when you've learned to play."- #
0:12:52 > 0:12:54One Chord Wonders was the best debut single
0:12:54 > 0:12:59The Adverts could have released, and also the most self-defeating,
0:12:59 > 0:13:01because it gave the critics a big stick to beat them with.
0:13:04 > 0:13:07It was ironic, because they were getting slagged off for something
0:13:07 > 0:13:09they were making a critique of.
0:13:09 > 0:13:11He's a sophisticated songwriter but he hasn't got a band
0:13:11 > 0:13:14that can play the songs at the level he'd be thinking.
0:13:14 > 0:13:16But that's the charm of The Adverts.
0:13:16 > 0:13:18If you listen to Eddie Van Halen,
0:13:18 > 0:13:20one of the things that's always baffled me
0:13:20 > 0:13:25about his playing is that it is completely incoherent, emotionally.
0:13:25 > 0:13:27It makes no sense at all.
0:13:27 > 0:13:29It's just notes.
0:13:29 > 0:13:32Whereas the playing in Adverts records,
0:13:32 > 0:13:34it may be blind,
0:13:34 > 0:13:35but it's completely coherent.
0:13:35 > 0:13:38The fact that everyone in the band was pushing up
0:13:38 > 0:13:42to the edge of their ability was what gave it its edge.
0:13:42 > 0:13:44The feeling that it could fall apart at any moment.
0:13:44 > 0:13:46Sometimes it DID fall apart.
0:13:46 > 0:13:47So what?
0:13:58 > 0:13:59I first met Michael Dempsey
0:13:59 > 0:14:03when he was the director of Granada Publishing.
0:14:03 > 0:14:04He was the youngest managing director
0:14:04 > 0:14:08of a publishing company in Britain, in fact.
0:14:08 > 0:14:11He was rather famous for being a young hotshot in publishing.
0:14:11 > 0:14:14And then he had a spectacular party, apparently,
0:14:14 > 0:14:17at the Frankfurt Book Fair, which cost Granada so much money
0:14:17 > 0:14:19they just had to get rid of him.
0:14:19 > 0:14:22I had been to one of these clubs and met The Adverts.
0:14:22 > 0:14:25I think it was The Adverts and The Damned were on that evening.
0:14:25 > 0:14:28And I took The Adverts back to a drinking club
0:14:28 > 0:14:31called Zanzibar in Covent Garden.
0:14:31 > 0:14:33And I ran into Dempsey there at the bar.
0:14:33 > 0:14:35We got talking and I introduced them
0:14:35 > 0:14:37and I was telling him, "This is the new thing.
0:14:37 > 0:14:39"You should get involved, Michael."
0:14:39 > 0:14:42As a joke, I said, "You should manage them."
0:14:42 > 0:14:44Because they were looking for someone to manage them.
0:14:44 > 0:14:47And literally about a week later, I had a phone call from Dempsey
0:14:47 > 0:14:49saying, "What sort of van should I buy?"
0:14:49 > 0:14:53I think Michael identified the artist in Tim.
0:14:53 > 0:14:57You know, this was a really strong performer, strong songwriter.
0:14:57 > 0:14:58Michael liked that.
0:14:58 > 0:15:01Michael would never have just gone with a band
0:15:01 > 0:15:03who might make him £5,000 in a year.
0:15:03 > 0:15:08He was interested in stuff that inspired him.
0:15:10 > 0:15:13He was a TV Smith fan and an Adverts fan, you know.
0:15:13 > 0:15:14That's what Michael was.
0:15:14 > 0:15:16When One Chord Wonders came out,
0:15:16 > 0:15:18it didn't go anywhere near the charts,
0:15:18 > 0:15:20so we could get rid of our jobs and be on Top Of The Pops.
0:15:20 > 0:15:21That would take some time.
0:15:21 > 0:15:24Only about three months, as it turned out.
0:15:24 > 0:15:27But then, that was almost wholly because of Michael Dempsey,
0:15:27 > 0:15:28who took us out of Stiff,
0:15:28 > 0:15:32negotiated with us to be on the Live At The Roxy album,
0:15:32 > 0:15:36and then set us a deal with Anchor Records, who were owned by a major,
0:15:36 > 0:15:38who had a publicity machine,
0:15:38 > 0:15:42who knew how to get a record distributed and in the charts,
0:15:42 > 0:15:45and how to get us in the music press.
0:15:45 > 0:15:47That was the point about Michael Dempsey.
0:15:47 > 0:15:49He didn't try and influence us, musically.
0:15:49 > 0:15:52What he did was put what we'd done onto some kind of setting
0:15:52 > 0:15:55that made sense in the commercial music business.
0:15:55 > 0:15:56< So who writes all the lyrics?
0:15:56 > 0:15:59- Tim.- At the moment, yeah.
0:15:59 > 0:16:01< Gary Gilmore's Eyes has just come out, has it?
0:16:01 > 0:16:03Yeah, it came out last Friday.
0:16:03 > 0:16:05- < That was one of Tim's songs?- Yeah.
0:16:05 > 0:16:07< What are the lyrics actually about?
0:16:07 > 0:16:08It's about a guy in the States
0:16:08 > 0:16:11who has got the part of the eyes of Gary Gilmore.
0:16:11 > 0:16:13< No, it isn't. It's about a guy who's a mass-murderer,
0:16:13 > 0:16:15and was convicted to life in prison.
0:16:15 > 0:16:18That's Gary Gilmore! The song's about his bleedin' eyes!
0:16:21 > 0:16:24(REPORTER) It was the wish of Gary Gilmore
0:16:24 > 0:16:26that others benefit from his death.
0:16:26 > 0:16:28Medically, that was accomplished this morning,
0:16:28 > 0:16:32with the removal of the corneas, some organs, bone, and nerves.
0:16:32 > 0:16:35All will be used for transplants and research.
0:16:35 > 0:16:37# I'm lying in a hospital
0:16:37 > 0:16:38# I'm pinned against the bed
0:16:38 > 0:16:40# A stethoscope upon my heart
0:16:40 > 0:16:42# A hand against my head
0:16:42 > 0:16:43# They're peeling off the bandages
0:16:43 > 0:16:44# I'm wincing in the light
0:16:44 > 0:16:46# The nurse is looking anxious
0:16:46 > 0:16:47# And she's quivering in fright
0:16:47 > 0:16:49# I'm looking through
0:16:49 > 0:16:51# Gary Gilmore's eyes
0:16:51 > 0:16:53# Looking through Gary Gilmore's eyes
0:16:53 > 0:16:56# Looking through Gary Gilmore's eyes
0:16:56 > 0:16:59# Looking through Gary Gilmore's eyes
0:17:05 > 0:17:07# The doctors are avoiding me
0:17:07 > 0:17:08# My vision is confused
0:17:08 > 0:17:10# I listen to my earphones
0:17:10 > 0:17:11# And I catch the evening news
0:17:11 > 0:17:14# A murderer's been killed And he donates his sight to science
0:17:14 > 0:17:16# I'm locked into a private ward
0:17:16 > 0:17:18# I realise that I must be. #
0:17:18 > 0:17:21Any band who has a hit, it's always a song that doesn't represent them.
0:17:21 > 0:17:24Gary Gilmore's Eyes is nothing like the rest of the stuff he writes.
0:17:24 > 0:17:26It's a weird one-off. It makes you stuck.
0:17:26 > 0:17:29It's weird. Your hit can actually be a cross to bear.
0:17:29 > 0:17:31# I smash the light in anger
0:17:31 > 0:17:32# Push my bed against the door
0:17:32 > 0:17:34# I close my lids across the eyes
0:17:34 > 0:17:35# And wish to see no more
0:17:35 > 0:17:37# The eye receives the messages
0:17:37 > 0:17:38# And sends them to the brain
0:17:38 > 0:17:40# No guarantee the stimuli
0:17:40 > 0:17:41# Must be perceived the same. #
0:17:41 > 0:17:44We played at The Roxy, we'd had a single out on Stiff Records,
0:17:44 > 0:17:48we'd been on Live At The Roxy with a live version of Bored Teenagers.
0:17:48 > 0:17:50We'd toured with The Damned. We had a big record company.
0:17:50 > 0:17:53We knew how to do things. It just seemed everything was rolling right.
0:17:53 > 0:17:56I don't think anyone was surprised when it was a hit.
0:17:56 > 0:17:59# Gary don't need his eyes to see
0:17:59 > 0:18:07# Gary and his eyes have parted company. #
0:18:07 > 0:18:09It happened so fast,
0:18:09 > 0:18:12it took a bit of time to sink in that it actually was happening.
0:18:12 > 0:18:15And by the time it did sink in that it was actually happening,
0:18:15 > 0:18:17it was all over.
0:18:23 > 0:18:26The fact that The Adverts actually for about six months
0:18:26 > 0:18:28were a pop band seems absolutely amazing.
0:18:28 > 0:18:31They did appear in whatever was the equivalent of Smash Hits at the time.
0:18:31 > 0:18:32Especially with Gaye.
0:18:32 > 0:18:34No matter how much she hates this,
0:18:34 > 0:18:36she looked really sexy and everything,
0:18:36 > 0:18:38but she also looked really, really cool,
0:18:38 > 0:18:40and she was a really fantastic female icon as well,
0:18:40 > 0:18:41cos she looked really tough.
0:18:41 > 0:18:43She was THE rock icon.
0:18:43 > 0:18:46Everybody wanted to look like her.
0:18:46 > 0:18:50And she was unique, because everything she did,
0:18:50 > 0:18:53she just did on her own. Nobody told her what to wear.
0:18:53 > 0:18:55She just picked it up herself.
0:18:55 > 0:18:58Such a great image.
0:19:03 > 0:19:07I absolutely hated the way that the press would single me out.
0:19:07 > 0:19:10I didn't actually want to be a female.
0:19:10 > 0:19:12I wanted to be a male in a band.
0:19:12 > 0:19:14Because all the bands I really liked,
0:19:14 > 0:19:16and wanted to be like, were all males.
0:19:16 > 0:19:19I just didn't like the fact that I was female,
0:19:19 > 0:19:21and I certainly didn't want it brought up endlessly
0:19:21 > 0:19:23and, you know, remarked on.
0:19:23 > 0:19:25I think she was embarrassed about being the sex icon.
0:19:25 > 0:19:27She was a very, very shy girl,
0:19:27 > 0:19:30cursed by being photogenic.
0:19:30 > 0:19:32And so she WAS one of the faces of punk rock.
0:19:32 > 0:19:35She had the look.
0:19:35 > 0:19:40She had a certain diffidence that could be construed as insolence.
0:19:40 > 0:19:41Was she a great musician? No.
0:19:41 > 0:19:44Was she any worse than Paul Simonon or Glen Matlock
0:19:44 > 0:19:46as a bass player at that time?
0:19:46 > 0:19:49Probably wasn't much in it, was there?
0:19:49 > 0:19:52It's just that she was a girl, so of course she couldn't play.
0:19:52 > 0:19:54OK, they had this great face.
0:19:54 > 0:19:57But she couldn't play.
0:19:57 > 0:19:58And so what? You know?
0:19:58 > 0:20:02Maybe the fact that Gaye was so good-looking
0:20:02 > 0:20:05worked against the band in the long run.
0:20:05 > 0:20:07It allowed people to say,
0:20:07 > 0:20:08"Oh, yeah. That was the band
0:20:08 > 0:20:11"with that really great-looking chick, right?"
0:20:11 > 0:20:13I think Tim was just resigned to it.
0:20:13 > 0:20:16Considering that he was the front person
0:20:16 > 0:20:18and the songwriter and everything.
0:20:18 > 0:20:22People did recognise him for his lyrics. But he just wasn't recognised enough.
0:20:22 > 0:20:25He was competing in a time when a lot of good lyricists were around.
0:20:25 > 0:20:26He wasn't the only great lyricist.
0:20:26 > 0:20:28Johnny Rotten was great.
0:20:28 > 0:20:29Strummer was great.
0:20:29 > 0:20:30Howard Devoto was great.
0:20:30 > 0:20:33But Howard Devoto presented himself as a literate punk intellectual,
0:20:33 > 0:20:34whereas TV Smith didn't.
0:20:34 > 0:20:37I don't remember reading many interviews where TV Smith
0:20:37 > 0:20:39would play the part of the punk rock poet Laureate,
0:20:39 > 0:20:41or the rock and roll intellectual.
0:20:41 > 0:20:44He wanted to be free of these labels. That's how it seemed to me.
0:20:44 > 0:20:47I think Tim's lyrics have a strong element of poetry in them.
0:20:47 > 0:20:50He was working in an area that definitely has its roots
0:20:50 > 0:20:52way back in '60s music.
0:20:52 > 0:20:55I mean, I don't really even see him as a punk songwriter at all.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58# So it couldn't survive
0:20:58 > 0:21:00# Something had to give
0:21:00 > 0:21:02# The people take a downhill slide into the gloom
0:21:02 > 0:21:07# Into the dark recesses of their minds. #
0:21:07 > 0:21:11He had a really adventurous sense of song structure.
0:21:11 > 0:21:13The choruses in The Adverts' songs,
0:21:13 > 0:21:16they don't come when you expect them to
0:21:16 > 0:21:20and they don't necessarily do what choruses are supposed to do.
0:21:20 > 0:21:25The Great British Mistake is more like an essay than it is a song.
0:21:25 > 0:21:27And yet, when it's played and sung,
0:21:27 > 0:21:29the melody just makes sense of everything.
0:21:29 > 0:21:32I think Great British Mistake was a good example
0:21:32 > 0:21:34of a classic TV Smith song,
0:21:34 > 0:21:38in that there is a lot of disconnected images that just fly.
0:21:38 > 0:21:41And if you look at it on paper, it's like, well, what's this about?
0:21:41 > 0:21:44But when you actually hear it and it's just spitting out at you,
0:21:44 > 0:21:48you get a very clear picture, in a way,
0:21:48 > 0:21:51of what was like to be in England in 1977.
0:22:10 > 0:22:13# They'll see the books burn They'll be 451
0:22:13 > 0:22:16# It's people against things and not against each other
0:22:16 > 0:22:18# Out of the pre-pack
0:22:18 > 0:22:19# Into the fear
0:22:19 > 0:22:22# Into themselves
0:22:22 > 0:22:23# They're the great British mistake
0:22:23 > 0:22:26# They'll have to come to terms now They'll take it out somehow
0:22:26 > 0:22:28# They'll blame it all on something
0:22:28 > 0:22:30# The British mistake
0:22:30 > 0:22:31# When will it be over?
0:22:31 > 0:22:32# How can they avoid it?
0:22:32 > 0:22:35# Avoid it, avoid it. #
0:22:35 > 0:22:37Exhaustion, boredom, anxieties,
0:22:37 > 0:22:39self-disgust, misery,
0:22:39 > 0:22:41sense of inferiority, dislike of industry,
0:22:41 > 0:22:43dislike of instant pudding, 25-year itch,
0:22:43 > 0:22:46fear, insecurity, frustration.
0:22:46 > 0:22:49- What can we do about it? - I haven't the faintest idea.
0:22:49 > 0:22:51LAUGHTER
0:22:51 > 0:22:54# Great British mistake
0:22:54 > 0:22:56# Great British mistake
0:22:56 > 0:22:58# Mistake, mistake. #
0:23:12 > 0:23:15There's two ways of recording. You either build it all with blocks,
0:23:15 > 0:23:19and hone each block to its correct shape and put it all together,
0:23:19 > 0:23:22or you take a photograph of what's happening with a band.
0:23:22 > 0:23:25And the way I made The Adverts record was to kind of
0:23:25 > 0:23:27take a photograph of what was going on.
0:23:32 > 0:23:35This is a great manifesto.
0:23:35 > 0:23:38That album title, that album cover.
0:23:38 > 0:23:42Punk is this movement of escape and liberation.
0:23:42 > 0:23:45I, TV Smith, I'm Moses.
0:23:45 > 0:23:47We're the Chosen People.
0:23:47 > 0:23:51I mean, the pompousness of it all makes it into a great joke
0:23:51 > 0:23:56and satirises the pretensions of punk and all subcultures.
0:23:56 > 0:23:58At the same time, it's completely serious.
0:23:58 > 0:24:02Yes, we WILL lead you out of bondage.
0:24:02 > 0:24:05We will take you into the Promised Land.
0:24:05 > 0:24:06And then you have this billboard.
0:24:12 > 0:24:16Land Of Milk And Honey. You think, "Oh, my God. This is it?"
0:24:18 > 0:24:21# Life's short, don't make a mess of It
0:24:24 > 0:24:25# To the ends of the earth
0:24:25 > 0:24:27# You'll look for sense in it
0:24:30 > 0:24:33# No chances, no plans
0:24:33 > 0:24:34# I'll smash the windows of my box
0:24:34 > 0:24:36# I'll be a madman
0:24:36 > 0:24:41# It's no time to be 21
0:24:41 > 0:24:42# To be anyone. #
0:24:42 > 0:24:46The Irish tour was the end of the original line-up of the band.
0:24:46 > 0:24:49Almost certainly, the fact that I was in a relationship with Gaye
0:24:49 > 0:24:52changed the balance between us and the other two in the band.
0:24:52 > 0:24:55Laurie, in particular, had a lot of problems with the fact that
0:24:55 > 0:24:58us two were really kind of the heads of the band.
0:24:58 > 0:25:01But that's simply the way the band started.
0:25:01 > 0:25:03# I'm getting wound up The plot sickens
0:25:03 > 0:25:07# It's no time to be 21. #
0:25:07 > 0:25:10It started to go downhill with me being on the cover of the record.
0:25:10 > 0:25:12It was all focused in on her.
0:25:12 > 0:25:14What she needed, what she wanted.
0:25:14 > 0:25:16It was never about the band itself.
0:25:16 > 0:25:20If there were articles and there was more pictures of me, he'd have a go.
0:25:20 > 0:25:21It's not my fault, you know?
0:25:21 > 0:25:24I didn't want it in the first place. That used to really piss me off.
0:25:24 > 0:25:27I knew that she would stay and I'd end up going
0:25:27 > 0:25:30one way or another, whether I left myself or got thrown out.
0:25:30 > 0:25:31And that's what would've happened.
0:25:31 > 0:25:34I was a bit hazy about how he was actually sacked.
0:25:34 > 0:25:37He went down with hepatitis while we were in Ireland,
0:25:37 > 0:25:40and he had to be hospitalised.
0:25:40 > 0:25:43So that's what happened. I went straight into the hospital,
0:25:43 > 0:25:46and that was the last I saw of The Adverts.
0:25:46 > 0:25:47# We'll be your untouchables
0:25:47 > 0:25:49# We'll be your outcasts
0:25:49 > 0:25:52# We don't care what you project on us
0:25:52 > 0:25:56# It's no time to be 21
0:25:56 > 0:26:04# No time to be 21. #
0:26:04 > 0:26:06While he was recovering, we got in John Towe,
0:26:06 > 0:26:09and it was like a breath of fresh air in the band, you know?
0:26:09 > 0:26:12All that bad feeling was gone. We were enjoying ourselves.
0:26:12 > 0:26:14And in some ways, I guess it was a fairly unpleasant
0:26:14 > 0:26:17and unfriendly decision, but I would've given the band
0:26:17 > 0:26:20another couple of months maximum without having made that decision.
0:26:20 > 0:26:22And there would have been no second album.
0:26:22 > 0:26:24We were very young.
0:26:24 > 0:26:25Quite volatile, possibly.
0:26:25 > 0:26:28I mean, the music we liked was quite violent in a sense.
0:26:28 > 0:26:32So unless you really get on with somebody,
0:26:32 > 0:26:36then it's going to put a strain on any relationship.
0:26:36 > 0:26:38I liked Tim a lot. I had a lot of respect for him too.
0:26:38 > 0:26:40And I respected him in more ways than he knew.
0:26:40 > 0:26:43I just don't think Tim realised that
0:26:43 > 0:26:47part of the sound that The Adverts had, had gone.
0:26:47 > 0:26:49That it would never be the same again.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55# Uncharted wrecks of wonder
0:26:55 > 0:26:58# In deepest gloom down under
0:26:58 > 0:27:03# The drowning men are drawing near
0:27:05 > 0:27:07# We're the subterranean vandals
0:27:07 > 0:27:11# Tying airlines round door handles
0:27:11 > 0:27:17# Adventurers don't venture here
0:27:17 > 0:27:21# We're the drowning men
0:27:21 > 0:27:24# We're the drowning men. #
0:27:24 > 0:27:26I was just sort of wandering around doing lots of gigs
0:27:26 > 0:27:30with other bands, and I was rehearsing in a studio one night,
0:27:30 > 0:27:33and Robert Crash, the bass player with The Maniacs,
0:27:33 > 0:27:36just happened to tell me The Adverts were looking for a drummer.
0:27:36 > 0:27:40# Ambition stunted the future fated... #
0:27:40 > 0:27:43I heard about The Adverts and I'd heard lots of stuff.
0:27:43 > 0:27:47And to be honest, it sounded quite a weird expression of punk rock.
0:27:47 > 0:27:52The sort of area where I come from is a lot more technical than Laurie.
0:27:52 > 0:27:54I had to be re-learn drums in a way,
0:27:54 > 0:27:56to play like Laurie to start with.
0:27:56 > 0:27:59But then when the band wanted to progress,
0:27:59 > 0:28:02then, of course, it moved on into different areas.
0:28:02 > 0:28:04Tim had written ten songs that fit seamlessly
0:28:04 > 0:28:05into The Adverts' live set,
0:28:05 > 0:28:08including Male Assault, Fate of Criminals.
0:28:08 > 0:28:14Even My Place, live, wasn't that much of a stretch.
0:28:14 > 0:28:19And at some point, he decided to record a very different album.
0:28:22 > 0:28:25I was exploring classical music at the time,
0:28:25 > 0:28:29so I saw the initial punk movement as a complete nightmare.
0:28:29 > 0:28:32I mean, you know, I'm afraid I reacted a bit like
0:28:32 > 0:28:36old people reacted to rock and roll in my day.
0:28:36 > 0:28:40I was dragged by Dempsey to a gig in Oxford,
0:28:40 > 0:28:43and it was seeing and becoming involved with The Adverts
0:28:43 > 0:28:47that made me recognise that punk was in fact
0:28:47 > 0:28:51a beautifully valid folk music and social commentary.
0:28:51 > 0:28:53The lyrics were staggeringly beautiful.
0:28:53 > 0:28:56And I suddenly started to see maybe a way
0:28:56 > 0:29:00where you could have the raw frontispiece, if you like,
0:29:00 > 0:29:04and then introduce a bridge between the band
0:29:04 > 0:29:07and an almost Wagnerian, classical background,
0:29:07 > 0:29:09which I did via Tim Cross,
0:29:09 > 0:29:13a brilliant multi-A instrumentalist, but also an arranger.
0:29:21 > 0:29:22It wasn't very complicated music.
0:29:22 > 0:29:25So you could do it in octaves, or do it in chords.
0:29:25 > 0:29:28And I've got a fairly strong style of my own in a way.
0:29:28 > 0:29:33So I just applied my most pompous style to his music.
0:29:33 > 0:29:37# We're being deserted or let loose
0:29:39 > 0:29:42# I've just seen the dead walk by
0:29:42 > 0:29:45# And they don't seem jealous of my life
0:29:45 > 0:29:47# Let's take heart, see what lasts
0:29:47 > 0:29:52# Call it truth
0:29:52 > 0:29:56# Television's over
0:29:59 > 0:30:01# Television's over. #
0:30:01 > 0:30:04I got the impression they wanted a bit of a gothic album,
0:30:04 > 0:30:07and so that meant large production.
0:30:07 > 0:30:09So not only are the keyboards very prominent,
0:30:09 > 0:30:11but also there's tons and tons of vocals.
0:30:11 > 0:30:16I think it would be fairly unusual for me not to have put my oar in
0:30:16 > 0:30:19when it comes to, like, piling on vocals and piling on vocals.
0:30:19 > 0:30:22There's an element of that Phil Spector sound.
0:30:22 > 0:30:28That Wall of Sound thing that I still hanker after a bit, you know?
0:30:30 > 0:30:34# Television's over. #
0:30:35 > 0:30:40They had a female choir thing in the back.
0:30:40 > 0:30:43It worked fine, but it didn't sound like The Adverts.
0:30:43 > 0:30:46# Another close down, another let down
0:30:46 > 0:30:50# Another breakdown until the wind down
0:30:50 > 0:30:52# We're just echoes, we're reflected
0:30:52 > 0:30:55# Turn on a silver screen
0:30:55 > 0:30:56# With other pictures on it. #
0:30:56 > 0:30:58Yeah, I was really happy with it.
0:30:58 > 0:31:02But it was too complex and confusing, really,
0:31:02 > 0:31:04for the abilities of the band. Me included.
0:31:04 > 0:31:07Although I'd never apologise for something like that,
0:31:07 > 0:31:10because it gives it its character, and gives it its sound.
0:31:10 > 0:31:13And it's much better to try to reach for something
0:31:13 > 0:31:15you can't attain than to not bother.
0:31:15 > 0:31:21# You're living in other peoples' lives. #
0:31:21 > 0:31:25The Cast Of Thousands artwork started from a great idea,
0:31:25 > 0:31:27which was a Tibetan monk or something like that,
0:31:27 > 0:31:30who'd set himself on fire as a protest.
0:31:30 > 0:31:32And that was going to be on the front cover.
0:31:32 > 0:31:34But they wouldn't let us have that.
0:31:34 > 0:31:36They said Woolworths won't stock it and all that.
0:31:36 > 0:31:39They were going to take us into this darkened studio,
0:31:39 > 0:31:41pose us in front of this good photographer.
0:31:41 > 0:31:43And they put tons of eyeliner on us,
0:31:43 > 0:31:45but they were going to have this wonderful effect.
0:31:45 > 0:31:48"By the time we finished with it, it'll look fine."
0:31:48 > 0:31:51They came up with the pictures a few weeks later,
0:31:51 > 0:31:55and there we are, like a dolled-up bunch of tarts in a bright studio.
0:31:55 > 0:31:56They said, "There's your cover."
0:31:56 > 0:31:58(SHE LAUGHS) It was absolutely horrible!
0:31:58 > 0:32:01It's a horrible glam band!
0:32:01 > 0:32:04RCA weren't in a hurry to understand the point of TV,
0:32:04 > 0:32:07nor how to promote him as best as possible.
0:32:07 > 0:32:09Basically they did him no favours.
0:32:09 > 0:32:12We thought they didn't get what we were doing,
0:32:12 > 0:32:14and they thought we weren't playing their game.
0:32:14 > 0:32:16Both of which were true.
0:32:16 > 0:32:17Good night.
0:32:19 > 0:32:22So two things were clear about Cast Of Thousands.
0:32:22 > 0:32:24One was that it was a great leap forward.
0:32:24 > 0:32:26One was that it wasn't going to go anywhere.
0:32:26 > 0:32:29# All the human torches
0:32:29 > 0:32:30# Catching fire
0:32:30 > 0:32:32# Especially for you
0:32:32 > 0:32:34# The corrupt officials
0:32:34 > 0:32:38- # Getting caught - Especially for you
0:32:38 > 0:32:41# Poor and the needy, lovers and killers
0:32:41 > 0:32:44# Especially for you. #
0:32:44 > 0:32:48Although we knew we were going leftfield with this album,
0:32:48 > 0:32:50the sound and construction of the songs were so strange,
0:32:50 > 0:32:53I thought it was enough for people to see, just a minute,
0:32:53 > 0:32:57The Adverts weren't this one-dimensional punk band.
0:32:57 > 0:33:00Look what they've done now. This is amazing. I really thought...
0:33:00 > 0:33:03I was convinced that people were going to really like that album.
0:33:03 > 0:33:04It is, to this day,
0:33:04 > 0:33:07one of the more curious sophomore efforts
0:33:07 > 0:33:09I've ever heard by any band.
0:33:09 > 0:33:11He had spent almost three years playing
0:33:11 > 0:33:14what could be defined as punk rock,
0:33:14 > 0:33:18and then to come out with an album that defiantly wasn't...
0:33:18 > 0:33:19I think he moved too quickly.
0:33:19 > 0:33:23They were really pursuing a grand vision on that record especially.
0:33:23 > 0:33:25And it holds up, I think.
0:33:25 > 0:33:27In some ways, I like it more than the first record.
0:33:27 > 0:33:30I like their first record a lot, but the second one has a certain,
0:33:30 > 0:33:33like, nutrition value that keeps me coming back.
0:33:33 > 0:33:36If I was to make a list of the albums,
0:33:36 > 0:33:39all the albums I've produced,
0:33:39 > 0:33:43it would be in the top three of the ones that I'm proudest of.
0:33:43 > 0:33:45TV was hearing something else, you know?
0:33:45 > 0:33:47And he was one of the only guys
0:33:47 > 0:33:49cynical and brave enough to go, "You know what?
0:33:49 > 0:33:52"I'm onto the next thing. If you don't like it, bite me."
0:33:52 > 0:33:55And that's maybe what everyone did. They went, "OK!"
0:33:59 > 0:34:01He was stuck. But he was stuck by his own choosing.
0:34:01 > 0:34:03Because, as an artist,
0:34:03 > 0:34:05and this is what you have to really respect and admire him for,
0:34:05 > 0:34:09he ploughed on in this direction, completely ignoring everybody else.
0:34:09 > 0:34:12If you align yourself with something, you're stuck with that.
0:34:12 > 0:34:15And from the beginning, The Adverts aligned themselves with outsiderdom.
0:34:19 > 0:34:21I think Howard had just had enough,
0:34:21 > 0:34:23and I know that we'd been maybe plugging away
0:34:23 > 0:34:26and not doing as well as he would've thought,
0:34:26 > 0:34:28and he was a bit disenchanted with it.
0:34:28 > 0:34:31But we had a rehearsal booked in one day, and he didn't turn up.
0:34:31 > 0:34:32We never saw him again, ever.
0:34:32 > 0:34:35I was quite pleased, because I thought he could do better.
0:34:35 > 0:34:38He was always talking about Phil Collins,
0:34:38 > 0:34:40and he always wanted to be that kind of thing.
0:34:40 > 0:34:43So I used to think, "What's that got to do with punk?"
0:34:43 > 0:34:46I think he thought that punk was the wrong road.
0:34:46 > 0:34:47He took the wrong road.
0:34:54 > 0:34:57You had to be quite strong in that world.
0:34:57 > 0:34:59I'm not sure Howard was.
0:34:59 > 0:35:01And I felt sorry for TV Smith,
0:35:01 > 0:35:03because he really was keeping it all together.
0:35:03 > 0:35:07A bit like Mick Jagger keeps the Stones together. He was the one.
0:35:07 > 0:35:09It was a sinking ship then, see?
0:35:09 > 0:35:12And I was still there, ready.
0:35:12 > 0:35:13You know?
0:35:13 > 0:35:16But there comes a breaking point.
0:35:16 > 0:35:18And in the end, I didn't bother to go in.
0:35:18 > 0:35:21And then it was only a few weeks after that
0:35:21 > 0:35:24someone got a phone call from somebody
0:35:24 > 0:35:27telling me that TV Smith had split The Adverts.
0:35:29 > 0:35:31It was a horrible mess. So we got in these brothers.
0:35:31 > 0:35:36And actually, we found ourselves with quite a viable band.
0:35:36 > 0:35:38We were sounding good very quickly after rehearsals.
0:35:38 > 0:35:42Then we went out on tour, and the whole breakdown started again.
0:35:42 > 0:35:45There was arguments between Tim Cross and the Martinez brothers.
0:35:45 > 0:35:48So I found myself with a whole new bunch of people,
0:35:48 > 0:35:49but the same old arguments.
0:35:49 > 0:35:52It was like this recurring nightmare.
0:36:07 > 0:36:10The album was vilified, people hated us.
0:36:10 > 0:36:12Our audiences were going down, we didn't have a label,
0:36:12 > 0:36:14and we hated each other.
0:36:14 > 0:36:18It was obvious, this thing is not going to go any further.
0:36:18 > 0:36:22There were other tensions, you know, because I think Michael Dempsey,
0:36:22 > 0:36:24their manager, his obvious loyalty was with Tim,
0:36:24 > 0:36:26because he saw Tim as the one with the talent.
0:36:26 > 0:36:29He would necessarily be exasperated with Gaye,
0:36:29 > 0:36:32because she was in a state and wasn't ready.
0:36:32 > 0:36:34Gaye, for God's sake!
0:36:34 > 0:36:36Don't you think we've got enough problems?
0:36:36 > 0:36:40She was drinking a lot, and she was fairly confused a lot of the time.
0:36:40 > 0:36:41A bottle of vodka a day.
0:36:41 > 0:36:43I would have a healthy breakfast. A bowl of cereal.
0:36:43 > 0:36:46But that was the rest of the day.
0:36:46 > 0:36:47I'd just drink vodka.
0:36:52 > 0:36:55The punk press, NME, Sounds, you name it,
0:36:55 > 0:36:58they were every bit as chauvinistic and fascist as any other press.
0:36:58 > 0:37:00And so they'd go on about her weight.
0:37:00 > 0:37:02You know, very, very personal stuff.
0:37:02 > 0:37:05They wouldn't say that to anyone else.
0:37:05 > 0:37:07I'm sure it was damaging her self-confidence
0:37:07 > 0:37:10and making her more difficult to deal with.
0:37:10 > 0:37:13She became quite a difficult person to be in a band with.
0:37:13 > 0:37:15Tim was very stoic.
0:37:15 > 0:37:18He simply understood that this is what happens
0:37:18 > 0:37:21when you put a person like this under these sorts of pressures.
0:37:21 > 0:37:23And he was INCREDIBLY patient.
0:37:23 > 0:37:27She'd be falling over and not getting her stuff together,
0:37:27 > 0:37:29and because of the nature I met her,
0:37:29 > 0:37:32I couldn't understand why he was so loyal,
0:37:32 > 0:37:35because I'd never been that loyal to anybody myself.
0:37:35 > 0:37:37And I asked him, and he just shrugged
0:37:37 > 0:37:39and looked like it was a stupid question.
0:37:39 > 0:37:42Which taught me a lesson or two, you know?
0:37:42 > 0:37:44I can't say whether our relationship was under threat or not,
0:37:44 > 0:37:47but we always felt, having got through that,
0:37:47 > 0:37:48we could get through anything.
0:38:07 > 0:38:10When the band split up, there was a certain amount of relief,
0:38:10 > 0:38:11because it let Gaye off the hook.
0:38:11 > 0:38:13She'd had enough, I think.
0:38:13 > 0:38:17She realised that she wanted time for herself
0:38:17 > 0:38:19and it was a feeling that he needed to move on,
0:38:19 > 0:38:24TV needed to move on, and get more accomplished musicians in.
0:38:24 > 0:38:27Because his songs were developing and developing,
0:38:27 > 0:38:31and there was only so far that The Adverts could develop.
0:38:31 > 0:38:33You're looking ahead all the time.
0:38:33 > 0:38:36We've done that, and it was successful up to a point.
0:38:36 > 0:38:38But what's the next big project?
0:38:38 > 0:38:42The revival of CND and of pacifist movements elsewhere in Europe
0:38:42 > 0:38:45began after 5 of America's NATO partners, including Britain,
0:38:45 > 0:38:48agreed to consider siting nuclear cruise missiles
0:38:48 > 0:38:52at American bases in Europe by 1983.
0:38:52 > 0:38:53He's back on track here.
0:38:53 > 0:38:55With The Adverts' second album, which I do like,
0:38:55 > 0:38:58he's getting all his experimentation out of his system.
0:38:58 > 0:39:00And he's not had the set up to get it done right.
0:39:00 > 0:39:03He hasn't got the right band, the right producers, studio, label.
0:39:03 > 0:39:05But when he gets to The Explorers,
0:39:05 > 0:39:07because he's in a touring band, it makes a real difference,
0:39:07 > 0:39:09because these are songs that they play hard
0:39:09 > 0:39:13on the road for a long time, by people who really want to play them.
0:39:13 > 0:39:16# My name is Tomahawk Cruise. #
0:39:16 > 0:39:19Tomahawk Cruise is one of his finest and best songs.
0:39:19 > 0:39:21I can remember the first time I heard it on Peel,
0:39:21 > 0:39:22and I thought, "Wow!"
0:39:22 > 0:39:25Because it was just as the missiles were coming in.
0:39:25 > 0:39:29If they had recorded the whole album with Tom Newman,
0:39:29 > 0:39:31it would have been as good as the first Adverts album.
0:39:31 > 0:39:34It's one of the great songs of that period.
0:39:34 > 0:39:36It did get quite good press as well. But again, he's on a small label.
0:39:36 > 0:39:39He's a deeply unfashionable person by now.
0:39:39 > 0:39:42he's so far out on a limb that most people completely ignore it.
0:39:42 > 0:39:44It's quite a tragedy really, isn't it?
0:39:44 > 0:39:48I will not be party to telling the younger generation
0:39:48 > 0:39:53that the future for them lies in an inevitable nuclear confrontation
0:39:53 > 0:39:55with the Soviet Union.
0:40:00 > 0:40:04They lost Tom Newman as the producer, that was the first thing that went wrong.
0:40:04 > 0:40:07The second thing that went wrong was when the album was out,
0:40:07 > 0:40:09they landed a tour opening for The Undertones.
0:40:09 > 0:40:13A British tour. Three weeks, four weeks, I think it was.
0:40:13 > 0:40:16After two nights, they were dropped from the tour.
0:40:16 > 0:40:19And that was where the impetus was lost,
0:40:19 > 0:40:21because suddenly they were scrabbling for gigs.
0:40:33 > 0:40:36Oh, and can I say that Last Words had the second worst album cover
0:40:36 > 0:40:39of Tim's career and you have Ralph Steadman do the sleeve
0:40:39 > 0:40:41for Tomahawk Cruise,
0:40:41 > 0:40:43so who shall we use for the album?
0:40:43 > 0:40:46Ah, Edward Bell, who has painted one picture in his life and because
0:40:46 > 0:40:49it was for David Bowie, everybody's queuing up to use him.
0:40:49 > 0:40:51That one again was Michael's idea.
0:40:51 > 0:40:54And perhaps that was one of his least good ideas!
0:40:54 > 0:40:58He stuck with Dempsey when really he'd have been better advised
0:40:58 > 0:41:00to get someone else and move on.
0:41:00 > 0:41:03We almost had a little coup at one point, didn't we?
0:41:03 > 0:41:05I can't remember why.
0:41:05 > 0:41:11We just... We all felt... The band felt that Tim really could do
0:41:11 > 0:41:14so much better without Michael.
0:41:14 > 0:41:17# You can't please everyone
0:41:17 > 0:41:19# You have to have fun You have to have fun
0:41:19 > 0:41:20# You have to...
0:41:20 > 0:41:22# Have fun... #
0:41:22 > 0:41:24I wasn't a huge admirer of Dempsey.
0:41:24 > 0:41:27You know, he obviously was very bright and he'd got Tim started,
0:41:27 > 0:41:31and he'd got us our record deal so, you know, you can't take that
0:41:31 > 0:41:34away from him, but as a manager, he was pretty erratic.
0:41:34 > 0:41:39Always trying to pull a fast one, bouncing cheques.
0:41:39 > 0:41:42Remember the famous one, "a company cheque will be all right, will it",
0:41:42 > 0:41:44as we were leaving the hotel
0:41:44 > 0:41:46and you didn't want to look as he wrote it out.
0:41:48 > 0:41:51That last tour was a pretty terrible experience.
0:41:51 > 0:41:53The bouncing cheques finally caught up with us
0:41:53 > 0:41:57and the PA firm just left halfway through the tour!
0:41:57 > 0:42:01We were getting no income from the gigs. The promoter was losing money.
0:42:01 > 0:42:06We were getting paid nothing. It was very depressing.
0:42:06 > 0:42:09# You can't please everyone
0:42:09 > 0:42:11# You have to have fun You have to have fun
0:42:11 > 0:42:12# You have to...
0:42:12 > 0:42:13# Have fun...#
0:42:13 > 0:42:17There was so much potential there, the band was sparking with energy,
0:42:17 > 0:42:21and everything went against them,
0:42:21 > 0:42:25and the bad luck that attended The Explorers, I think,
0:42:25 > 0:42:28continued to haunt Tim for another couple of years.
0:42:37 > 0:42:41Michael's death was very difficult to take
0:42:41 > 0:42:43because of course Michael was and had continued to be
0:42:43 > 0:42:45a very close friend of mine,
0:42:45 > 0:42:49someone who I respected and admired a great deal.
0:42:49 > 0:42:51He was in enormous financial difficulties,
0:42:51 > 0:42:54just keeping things going and trying to support my career
0:42:54 > 0:42:57after The Adverts had finished
0:42:57 > 0:43:00and generally being a dynamic, livewire manager,
0:43:00 > 0:43:03he would try to get things going and get interest in the next project.
0:43:03 > 0:43:07He may have had a lot of bad ideas and I'm sure people could sit there
0:43:07 > 0:43:10and say he shouldn't have done this and he shouldn't have done that,
0:43:10 > 0:43:14but his faith in TV was unshakeable.
0:43:14 > 0:43:15They loved each other.
0:43:15 > 0:43:18Michael understood TV and he did his best to represent him,
0:43:18 > 0:43:21and he was very loyal, you know,
0:43:21 > 0:43:25and that's something that TV needed and has not had since.
0:43:25 > 0:43:29I did look for managers but I never found anyone I trusted,
0:43:29 > 0:43:32and there weren't that many options to be honest.
0:43:32 > 0:43:34You're looking at a failed artist.
0:43:34 > 0:43:38The Explorers album had flopped, the second Adverts album had flopped.
0:43:38 > 0:43:40Not many managers were interested in taking on that
0:43:40 > 0:43:44unless they were real lovers of the music, like Michael was,
0:43:44 > 0:43:46and I didn't meet anyone like that.
0:43:52 > 0:43:55Through some connection or other,
0:43:55 > 0:44:00I heard about this label called Rondelay.
0:44:00 > 0:44:04One of the guys Rondelay was setting up a sub-label called Expulsion,
0:44:04 > 0:44:06on a very, very low budget
0:44:06 > 0:44:09and said he'd be interested in another album from me.
0:44:09 > 0:44:11I don't know what he was expecting.
0:44:11 > 0:44:14Probably he was expecting that I'd bung out an Adverts-type album,
0:44:14 > 0:44:18because Rondelay was pretty much punk and that kind of feel.
0:44:18 > 0:44:21I was having a very creative writing period,
0:44:21 > 0:44:24working with Tim Cross and Tim Renwick.
0:44:25 > 0:44:27And it was much more poppy.
0:44:27 > 0:44:30I kind of didn't want to get involved with the punk sounding stuff.
0:44:30 > 0:44:32I felt that was now behind me.
0:44:32 > 0:44:36So I was writing simple kind of pop songs with interesting lyrics,
0:44:36 > 0:44:39and I was very happy with the stuff I was writing.
0:44:39 > 0:44:42It's pop songs and they are so twisted.
0:44:42 > 0:44:45You could imagine them all being huge hits,
0:44:45 > 0:44:47until you actually listen to them.
0:44:47 > 0:44:51I mean, even Your Haunted Heart, which is such a sweet, lovely song,
0:44:51 > 0:44:54but would you really want it written about you?
0:44:54 > 0:44:57We got basically a no-advance deal from Expulsion,
0:44:57 > 0:45:01but they were willing to put up very low studio costs.
0:45:01 > 0:45:04I think they gave us 900 quid or something to find a studio and record.
0:45:04 > 0:45:07Admittedly we didn't have a bass player and drummer,
0:45:07 > 0:45:09but we didn't have a budget for a bass player and drummer
0:45:09 > 0:45:12so let's not worry about that, let's just do it.
0:45:12 > 0:45:14If we wait for the budget and we wait for the people,
0:45:14 > 0:45:16then we could wait forever.
0:45:16 > 0:45:19So Tim and Tim and I went into a small, cheap studio
0:45:19 > 0:45:22in south London and put together Channel Five.
0:45:22 > 0:45:24# Picture her
0:45:24 > 0:45:28# Widening eyes
0:45:28 > 0:45:31# Now you have all of me
0:45:31 > 0:45:33# Surprise, surprise!
0:45:36 > 0:45:41# It's just a token of my love... #
0:45:43 > 0:45:45I have a really soft spot for that album.
0:45:45 > 0:45:48I know it's difficult to listen to,
0:45:48 > 0:45:51I know you put it on and it sounds like some awful '80s record,
0:45:51 > 0:45:55but if you give it five or ten listens, it gets under your skin.
0:45:55 > 0:45:56# Disaster...#
0:45:56 > 0:45:59I'd snap up anything I could find of TV Smith,
0:45:59 > 0:46:03and a lot of people I knew didn't even get Cast Of Thousands
0:46:03 > 0:46:05and they never even got to the solo stuff.
0:46:05 > 0:46:08I'm like the only person I know besides maybe you
0:46:08 > 0:46:09who has the Channel Five album.
0:46:09 > 0:46:13If I thought it was difficult to get hold of Cast Of Thousands,
0:46:13 > 0:46:15trying to get hold of Channel Five proved impossible,
0:46:15 > 0:46:17because it wasn't actually really released, was it?
0:46:17 > 0:46:21It didn't actually really come out, did it? Or... It didn't?
0:46:21 > 0:46:26Expulsion became bankrupt two weeks after the record was released,
0:46:26 > 0:46:30and all the records were left on the shelf in the factory
0:46:30 > 0:46:31and weren't able to get to the shops.
0:46:31 > 0:46:34It was very typical early '80s UK indie.
0:46:34 > 0:46:37It existed for a little less than it needed to,
0:46:37 > 0:46:41and then went under, and the first you knew it had gone under
0:46:41 > 0:46:43was when you called and there was nobody there.
0:46:43 > 0:46:46It's one of those things where you think you're back on your feet,
0:46:46 > 0:46:49and the next thing you know, you've been knocked back on your arse.
0:46:49 > 0:46:50And....
0:46:52 > 0:46:56That's the way life is. You get back up again.
0:46:56 > 0:47:00To have over three million people unemployed in this country
0:47:00 > 0:47:04is bad enough, but to suggest, as some of our opponents have,
0:47:04 > 0:47:07that we don't care about it,
0:47:07 > 0:47:12is as deeply wounding as it is utterly false.
0:47:16 > 0:47:19The '80s were the most difficult period of my life.
0:47:19 > 0:47:21If I thought I was beyond redemption in the music business
0:47:21 > 0:47:24after The Explorers, after Channel Five came out,
0:47:24 > 0:47:29then there was no way I was going to get a record company interested in me.
0:47:29 > 0:47:34No manager, no publisher, no record deal, no tour agent, no money.
0:47:34 > 0:47:36I went on the dole for ten years.
0:47:36 > 0:47:40# You lock yourself into a... #
0:47:40 > 0:47:45The early '80s were not a good time for people who were known from punk
0:47:45 > 0:47:47to be trying to get a new deal.
0:47:47 > 0:47:52I got one A&R meeting, I think, where in as many words
0:47:52 > 0:47:56the guy told me, you know, "give up".
0:47:56 > 0:47:58Of course, as comes to all of us,
0:47:58 > 0:48:01unless you're very lucky or you have the right PR people
0:48:01 > 0:48:03and you pay them the right amount of money,
0:48:03 > 0:48:07having been flavour of the month or part of the movement which was respected,
0:48:07 > 0:48:09you're then regarded as being sort of old hat,
0:48:09 > 0:48:12so he was left a bit by the wayside.
0:48:12 > 0:48:14# When you discover us... #
0:48:14 > 0:48:20He said he was thinking of giving it all up on his 30th birthday.
0:48:20 > 0:48:24I couldn't give up. Maybe it would have been the easy way out for me,
0:48:24 > 0:48:27to just think I'm not going to make it as a musician, but I couldn't.
0:48:27 > 0:48:30I was still writing songs. I HAD to write songs,
0:48:30 > 0:48:32and the writing that I was doing through the '80s
0:48:32 > 0:48:35is easily the equal of anything on Channel Five.
0:48:35 > 0:48:37If Channel Five was a lost album,
0:48:37 > 0:48:39then there's at least another two lost albums
0:48:39 > 0:48:42that really, really should've been recorded in that period.
0:48:42 > 0:48:45# What about those of us you let... #
0:48:45 > 0:48:48It would've been nice to get into a studio and record them properly,
0:48:48 > 0:48:51and get them out on record but it wasn't to be.
0:48:51 > 0:48:55At the end of the '80s, what I missed was playing in front of people,
0:48:55 > 0:48:58seeing people in front of me enjoying what I was doing.
0:49:09 > 0:49:14# Seems like a safe place Way out of reach... #
0:49:14 > 0:49:17I was sitting at home one day, mid-'80s,
0:49:17 > 0:49:20and the phone rang and it was Tim.
0:49:20 > 0:49:25He said "I'm putting a new band together. Do you want to be in it?".
0:49:25 > 0:49:29I said, "Yeah, all right then"! I was absolutely gobsmacked.
0:49:29 > 0:49:32The plan was, rehearse in cheap rehearsal rooms,
0:49:32 > 0:49:35we could fit all the band and all our gear into two cars,
0:49:35 > 0:49:38we'd sleep on the floor and as long as we got paid our petrol money,
0:49:38 > 0:49:41we could do it, so this was a non-profit band
0:49:41 > 0:49:44that I could keep up while I was still on the dole.
0:49:44 > 0:49:46I couldn't afford to come off the dole. It had to work that way.
0:49:46 > 0:49:49We'd just go off and do charity gigs, benefit gigs,
0:49:49 > 0:49:51or save whatever's worth saving benefit gigs,
0:49:51 > 0:49:54getting back in front of a live audience,
0:49:54 > 0:49:55even if it was only for five people,
0:49:55 > 0:49:58back to some kind of value of what it was about being in a band.
0:49:58 > 0:50:00We had a lot of fun but we worked hard,
0:50:00 > 0:50:03and he was just determined to be forward-looking.
0:50:06 > 0:50:09# It's quiet, too quiet
0:50:09 > 0:50:12# Those nagging doubts
0:50:12 > 0:50:13# Keep spilling out... #
0:50:13 > 0:50:17The rest of the band would've done it for nothing. We loved that band.
0:50:17 > 0:50:20And in fact, it paid its way. It never cost us anything.
0:50:20 > 0:50:24I think he was getting fed up with just kind of struggling.
0:50:26 > 0:50:30I had a pretty sound idea of what the music business was like by then,
0:50:30 > 0:50:34so I didn't have any illusions that suddenly they'd be flocking to our door.
0:50:34 > 0:50:40What I was surprised at was kind of the vindictiveness of some of the critics.
0:50:40 > 0:50:44It was "Oh, look at TV Smith, he's now playing back rooms of pubs!
0:50:44 > 0:50:46"What a loser!"
0:50:46 > 0:50:49Excuse me! Excuse me for being a loser!
0:50:51 > 0:50:53# If there is a way forward
0:50:53 > 0:50:55# Use the will... #
0:50:55 > 0:50:59Also, at that time, he was probably very frustrated about the album not coming out.
0:50:59 > 0:51:01He actually funded the whole album himself,
0:51:01 > 0:51:04and I think we spent three weeks recording it and then doing a cover
0:51:04 > 0:51:06and getting Ludo to do the cartoon book
0:51:06 > 0:51:09and all the rest of it, so a completely finished product,
0:51:09 > 0:51:11and he couldn't get any distribution.
0:51:11 > 0:51:13It wasn't till after the band had finished
0:51:13 > 0:51:15before that album actually came out in the end.
0:51:17 > 0:51:21Almost accidentally we'd put ourselves in a position where we had
0:51:21 > 0:51:24to interact with the music business again and what do you know,
0:51:24 > 0:51:26the music business said no,
0:51:26 > 0:51:28so the writing was then on the wall for Cheap.
0:51:31 > 0:51:33# Get angry
0:51:34 > 0:51:36# Blamed you
0:51:36 > 0:51:39# But you were just a dog
0:51:39 > 0:51:44# Jumping through their hoops and you lost too
0:51:46 > 0:51:49# You got used
0:51:54 > 0:51:58# Looks like you've been dismantled
0:51:58 > 0:52:01# Instead of improved
0:52:01 > 0:52:04# Well, that's progress
0:52:04 > 0:52:10# We're all being buried by the machine... #
0:52:10 > 0:52:12I went to see Cheap at the Bull and Gate,
0:52:12 > 0:52:13and there was hardly anyone there
0:52:13 > 0:52:16and there he was in his top hat banging out these great songs
0:52:16 > 0:52:19with this band that looked like a load of old bikers,
0:52:19 > 0:52:22and there was no-one there and I was thinking, this is really ridiculous,
0:52:22 > 0:52:26what a talented songwriter. Why is there no-one there? This is stupid.
0:52:26 > 0:52:28I said, "Tim, you've got all these great songs,
0:52:28 > 0:52:30"and you can play the guitar reasonably well.
0:52:30 > 0:52:33"Why don't you just go out there solo?"
0:52:33 > 0:52:36I'd never played solo, I don't know how to do it.
0:52:36 > 0:52:40I'd be rubbish, and he said I'm booking this acoustic gig
0:52:40 > 0:52:44in North London, there's no PA, you just stand there with your guitar,
0:52:44 > 0:52:48you play to 20 people, five rows of seats,
0:52:48 > 0:52:52and why don't you do it? Give it a go.
0:52:52 > 0:52:56So I gave it a go and I was thrilled.
0:52:56 > 0:52:59I got something back off that gig that I hadn't got off gigs
0:52:59 > 0:53:01I don't think ever before.
0:53:01 > 0:53:04Direct communication between me and the audience.
0:53:04 > 0:53:07And I got addicted to it.
0:53:07 > 0:53:11It gave me freedom of how I could write and a very important thing was
0:53:11 > 0:53:13that it gave me freedom of how I could tour.
0:53:13 > 0:53:16I could pick up my guitar, I could get on a train,
0:53:16 > 0:53:18and there were no expenses apart from that.
0:53:18 > 0:53:21Suddenly the whole live aspect opened up again.
0:53:21 > 0:53:23# It's a science
0:53:23 > 0:53:26# It's the march of the giants...#
0:53:26 > 0:53:29I knew the first time I went to Germany, for example,
0:53:29 > 0:53:32that there would not be many people who knew who I was there.
0:53:32 > 0:53:34I wasn't expecting to go and play for 500 people,
0:53:34 > 0:53:38I was expecting to play for 20 or 30 people, which is what happened,
0:53:38 > 0:53:42but what I saw was 20 or 30 people in those gigs who really liked what I was doing,
0:53:42 > 0:53:45and sure enough, the next time I went and toured,
0:53:45 > 0:53:49there were a few more people and the next time there were a few more.
0:53:49 > 0:53:54# And I may be the first test-tube adult
0:53:54 > 0:53:57# But I don't know I can't hear myself think
0:53:57 > 0:54:00# Over the click of the Geiger counter
0:54:00 > 0:54:03# And the roar of the motorway lanes... #
0:54:03 > 0:54:06He just couldn't tour like he does with a band.
0:54:06 > 0:54:08It's the only way he can actually make a living,
0:54:08 > 0:54:10is just to go out there on his own -
0:54:10 > 0:54:13guitar in one hand and bag of merch in the other,
0:54:13 > 0:54:16and he just sets off down the road and that's it.
0:54:26 > 0:54:29I never thought I would end up travelling the world and enjoying it
0:54:29 > 0:54:35but it's now incredibly vital to my life and my experience.
0:54:35 > 0:54:38It's really been important to me in the way I look at the world
0:54:38 > 0:54:41and my understanding of people, from all the people I meet.
0:54:41 > 0:54:44I couldn't give that up now, and I certainly didn't plan it,
0:54:44 > 0:54:47and I never thought I would be doing it and somehow this has happened,
0:54:47 > 0:54:49and there's something to be said for the fact that
0:54:49 > 0:54:53if you don't find your own destiny, your own destiny comes to find you.
0:54:53 > 0:54:56# I wake up tired and they say... #
0:55:03 > 0:55:07With the manager, you never really know, what are those studio costs,
0:55:07 > 0:55:10where are we going to record? What are the dates going to be?
0:55:10 > 0:55:15I have all that under my control, and I like that.
0:55:15 > 0:55:19As a one-man outfit, it's not just about writing songs.
0:55:19 > 0:55:23The whole satisfaction and almost the whole creative process
0:55:23 > 0:55:26now extends out into the touring and everything.
0:55:26 > 0:55:29It's all part of the deal somehow.
0:55:30 > 0:55:33The con is that I'm totally overworked.
0:55:33 > 0:55:35I don't have any free time.
0:55:35 > 0:55:38I'd like to have free time, I'd like to have more time to write.
0:55:38 > 0:55:43I'd like to have more time to record, you know, and just take a break
0:55:43 > 0:55:48and, you know, clear out my head and come back to it with fresh energy.
0:55:48 > 0:55:51That's actually not possible when I'm doing everything myself.
0:55:51 > 0:55:53But the pros outweigh the cons.
0:55:57 > 0:55:59# It all happens in the dark
0:55:59 > 0:56:02# A complicated knot... #
0:56:02 > 0:56:05He could be more successful
0:56:05 > 0:56:10but he's got a very loyal, very devoted audience that adores him.
0:56:10 > 0:56:13# It's coming this year Next year
0:56:13 > 0:56:15# Some time never...#
0:56:15 > 0:56:17Whereas as we saw with The Adverts,
0:56:17 > 0:56:21they had a huge audience which turned their backs
0:56:21 > 0:56:24the moment they didn't make a record that sounded like Gary Gilmore's Eyes.
0:56:24 > 0:56:27Now each solo album sounds a little bit different to the last,
0:56:27 > 0:56:31and his audience just keeps growing a little bit more for each one.
0:56:31 > 0:56:33There is an incredible satisfaction gained
0:56:33 > 0:56:37from being able to earn a living doing what you love,
0:56:37 > 0:56:42when you've been virtually ignored by the opinion formers of the day.
0:56:42 > 0:56:46It's real, you know, this is not something that's been invented
0:56:46 > 0:56:49by a record company or a promo agency through hype and...
0:56:52 > 0:56:57.. It's.. It's a real communication going on between me
0:56:57 > 0:56:58and the people who like my stuff,
0:56:58 > 0:57:01and the reason they come is because they like what I do.
0:57:01 > 0:57:04It's not because they've seen some video on MTV and they think,
0:57:04 > 0:57:08"That looks pretty successful, I'd better go and buy into that".
0:57:08 > 0:57:14They're not buying into my lifestyle or what they perceive as me as a star.
0:57:14 > 0:57:18All they're doing is they're enjoying my songs,
0:57:18 > 0:57:23and my outlook on life and they feel close to me and I feel close to them.
0:57:51 > 0:57:54# And the dust begins to clear
0:57:54 > 0:57:56# I'm lying on the ground
0:57:56 > 0:57:59# And I'm standing on a path
0:57:59 > 0:58:01# In an unknown part of town
0:58:01 > 0:58:03And the path leads me away
0:58:03 > 0:58:05# Over hills and out of sight
0:58:05 > 0:58:08# In the blazing sun by day
0:58:08 > 0:58:10# And the hanging moon by night
0:58:10 > 0:58:12# And I wind up in a place
0:58:12 > 0:58:15# Where I never have to count
0:58:15 > 0:58:17# And I never see the waves
0:58:17 > 0:58:20# As I push my leaking boat out
0:58:20 > 0:58:22# It's expensive being poor
0:58:22 > 0:58:25# Because everything hurts more
0:58:25 > 0:58:27# Knocking on a bolted door
0:58:27 > 0:58:29# It's expensive being poor
0:58:29 > 0:58:32# Someone throw me down some crumbs
0:58:32 > 0:58:34# I will eat them off the floor
0:58:34 > 0:58:36# It's expensive being poor
0:58:36 > 0:58:39# But I look good when I get desperate
0:58:40 > 0:58:42# Desperate
0:58:43 > 0:58:46# Desperate. #
0:58:50 > 0:58:51CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:59:08 > 0:59:13# The edge of a revolution That's exactly where we stand
0:59:18 > 0:59:21# And though we could seize the moment
0:59:21 > 0:59:25# We aspire to wear the brand
0:59:28 > 0:59:31# And we take our place in a broken state
0:59:31 > 0:59:35# With the cold, the hurt The beautiful and damned
0:59:39 > 0:59:41# Had enough of this grey-sky thinking
0:59:41 > 0:59:45# I'm coming in to land. #
0:59:45 > 0:59:48Subtitling by Red Bee Media Ltd