0:00:02 > 0:00:07This programme contains some strong language
0:00:07 > 0:00:10MUSIC: Figure It Out by Royal Blood
0:00:10 > 0:00:11At Glastonbury last month,
0:00:11 > 0:00:15Kanye West claimed to be the number one rock star on the planet.
0:00:15 > 0:00:17But is that a title still worth having?
0:00:17 > 0:00:20With festivals running short of rock bands big enough to headline,
0:00:20 > 0:00:23cherished venues closing to make way for chichi apartments,
0:00:23 > 0:00:26once beloved music papers becoming freebies.
0:00:26 > 0:00:28We were told rock 'n' roll would never die,
0:00:28 > 0:00:31but, at 60 years old, is it starting to look its age?
0:00:31 > 0:00:34Tonight we're going to do something different on BBC Four
0:00:34 > 0:00:36and discuss rock 'n' roll's rich tapestry
0:00:36 > 0:00:39from a defiantly 21st-century perspective.
0:00:39 > 0:00:41Over the course of the next hour,
0:00:41 > 0:00:44I'll be hearing from a host of great musicians as we ask
0:00:44 > 0:00:46exactly what the hell rock 'n' roll means today
0:00:46 > 0:00:51and whether it can still be genuinely subversive and dangerous.
0:00:51 > 0:00:53MUSIC: You Can't Catch Me by Chuck Berry
0:00:53 > 0:00:56# Gone like a cool breeze. #
0:00:56 > 0:00:59To me, rock 'n' roll music means
0:00:59 > 0:01:02this straightforward chug-a-lug boogie music.
0:01:02 > 0:01:06And it's fast and it's in your face and it's visceral.
0:01:09 > 0:01:14I just felt, as a kid, that it was available to me, like,
0:01:14 > 0:01:16I'm going to try and play guitar.
0:01:16 > 0:01:19To me, it means freedom of spirit.
0:01:19 > 0:01:20And a spirit.
0:01:20 > 0:01:23It's not really a sound, not a leather jacket,
0:01:23 > 0:01:25it's not about being cool
0:01:25 > 0:01:27and yet, again, it's about all those things.
0:01:38 > 0:01:39APPLAUSE
0:01:39 > 0:01:44Welcome. Welcome to London's legendary 100 Club,
0:01:44 > 0:01:48a rock 'n' roll stalwart that first opened its doors in 1942
0:01:48 > 0:01:51as a jazz club that played host to American big-band leaders,
0:01:51 > 0:01:53like Benny Goodman.
0:01:53 > 0:01:57Since then, it has been a Ground Zero for many a musical movement,
0:01:57 > 0:02:00from Trad-Jazz in the '50s to Punk in the '70s.
0:02:00 > 0:02:03Anybody who was anybody has been up on that stage behind me,
0:02:03 > 0:02:06from Macca and The Stones to Sleaford Mods.
0:02:06 > 0:02:10Where better to take the temperature of rock 'n' roll?
0:02:10 > 0:02:12Joining me for some R and R face time today
0:02:12 > 0:02:15are three fantastic panellists,
0:02:15 > 0:02:18each one representing a different facet of the rock 'n' roll diamond.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21Let's start with the lead singer of Savages, a band
0:02:21 > 0:02:24full of blistering intensity at the cutting edge of modern rock,
0:02:24 > 0:02:28whose performances are as primal as their name suggests.
0:02:28 > 0:02:29MUSIC DROWNS SPEECH
0:02:32 > 0:02:35- Jehnny Beth, welcome. - APPLAUSE
0:02:35 > 0:02:37- Thank you.- Hello.
0:02:37 > 0:02:38CHEERING
0:02:41 > 0:02:43Joining Jehnny, a gentleman who really needs no introduction.
0:02:43 > 0:02:45In fact, I'm not sure there is
0:02:45 > 0:02:47a more rock 'n' roll being in existence.
0:02:47 > 0:02:50He's an icon of the punk era, a poet, you know it.
0:02:50 > 0:02:52- APPLAUSE - Hire car, hire car.
0:02:52 > 0:02:53Why would anybody buy a car?
0:02:53 > 0:02:56Bang it, prang it, say ta-ta.
0:02:56 > 0:02:57It's a hire car, baby.
0:02:57 > 0:03:01It is the Bard of Salford himself, Dr John Cooper Clarke.
0:03:01 > 0:03:03APPLAUSE AND CHEERING
0:03:03 > 0:03:06- Hello. - CHEERING
0:03:10 > 0:03:12Completing our million-dollar quarter is a true legend
0:03:12 > 0:03:15from deep within rock 'n' roll's gilded halls.
0:03:15 > 0:03:17In the mid-'60s, he went brothel-creeping
0:03:17 > 0:03:19in New Orleans in The Animals.
0:03:19 > 0:03:23# There is a house in New Orleans
0:03:25 > 0:03:28# They call the Rising Sun
0:03:31 > 0:03:35# And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy
0:03:36 > 0:03:40# And God, I know, I'm one. #
0:03:40 > 0:03:43The mighty Beatles knew him better as The Egg Man.
0:03:43 > 0:03:46Yes, it is the one and only Eric Burdon, welcome.
0:03:46 > 0:03:47APPLAUSE AND CHEERING
0:03:50 > 0:03:52Rock 'n' roll means many things to many people.
0:03:52 > 0:03:56It's an attitude, an adjective and way of life.
0:03:56 > 0:03:59Let's kick off by asking our panel what it means to them
0:03:59 > 0:04:02and if you guys could share your first rock 'n' roll memory with us.
0:04:02 > 0:04:05Eric, what was your rock 'n' roll awakening?
0:04:05 > 0:04:09I went to see a movie called, er, Baby Doll.
0:04:09 > 0:04:15They had this title music called Shame, Shame, Shame by Smiley Lewis
0:04:15 > 0:04:19and that one track set up the whole...
0:04:19 > 0:04:21MUSIC: Shame, Shame, Shame by Smiley Lewis
0:04:21 > 0:04:24...play that was about to happen on the screen.
0:04:24 > 0:04:26And that got me interested.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29John, what about you? What does rock 'n' roll mean to you?
0:04:29 > 0:04:33My first experience of rock 'n' roll in a...
0:04:33 > 0:04:37in any potent way, I guess, was at fairgrounds.
0:04:37 > 0:04:42They had better sound systems than you could possibly afford
0:04:42 > 0:04:44and, er...
0:04:44 > 0:04:46they had access, for some reason,
0:04:46 > 0:04:51to all the latest stateside hits.
0:04:51 > 0:04:52That was where you came in, OK.
0:04:52 > 0:04:55Jehnny, what turned you on to rock 'n' roll?
0:04:55 > 0:04:58I think there would be a list of things,
0:04:58 > 0:05:01but one I remember is seeing Wings of Desire
0:05:01 > 0:05:04by Wim Wenders and...
0:05:04 > 0:05:07and I remember that scene when Rowland S Howard is stepping onstage
0:05:07 > 0:05:11like a wild animal and doing circles like that
0:05:11 > 0:05:14and he's filmed from the back and...
0:05:14 > 0:05:18I don't know, something about that scene that, you know,
0:05:18 > 0:05:20really turned me on.
0:05:20 > 0:05:22- LAUGHTER - The primal power?- Yeah.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25In film, as well. Interesting. There's a simpatico developing
0:05:25 > 0:05:28- already between you two.- Yeah, it's quite interesting.- I like it.- Mm.
0:05:28 > 0:05:32OK. OK, well, time for some actual rock 'n' roll.
0:05:32 > 0:05:35Matthew E White is a Virginian songwriter and producer whose album,
0:05:35 > 0:05:38Fresh Blood, was released to broad acclaim earlier this year.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41Now, the album's standout track is the intriguingly titled
0:05:41 > 0:05:45Rock and Roll Is Cold, an allusion to what Matthew sees
0:05:45 > 0:05:47as rock 'n' roll's post-millennial crisis.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50We caught up with him for an exclusive performance
0:05:50 > 0:05:54at the BBC's Maida Vale studios and demanded that he explain himself.
0:05:56 > 0:05:58MATTHEW WHISPERS: One, two, three.
0:06:03 > 0:06:06# You said you found the soul of rock and roll
0:06:08 > 0:06:11# You said you found the soul of rock and roll
0:06:11 > 0:06:15# 'Ey, 'ey, rock and roll, it don't have no soul
0:06:17 > 0:06:19# Everybody knows that now
0:06:19 > 0:06:22# Everyone knows
0:06:23 > 0:06:26# Everybody knows that rock and roll is cold
0:06:31 > 0:06:34# You said you found the key to R&B
0:06:35 > 0:06:39# You said you found the key to R&B
0:06:39 > 0:06:44# 'Ey, 'ey, R&B, it don't have no key
0:06:45 > 0:06:47# Everybody gets that now
0:06:47 > 0:06:48# Everyone sees
0:06:51 > 0:06:53# Everybody sees that R&B is free. #
0:06:57 > 0:07:01I think, first and foremost, it's a... It's fun. You know?
0:07:01 > 0:07:07It's not meant to be a particularly serious record in some ways.
0:07:07 > 0:07:10Rock 'n' roll came from the black American experience
0:07:10 > 0:07:13and it has kind of journeyed on from there.
0:07:13 > 0:07:15It's gone past that and...
0:07:17 > 0:07:20I think that song kind of celebrates those routes in some way,
0:07:20 > 0:07:23you know, R&B music and gospel music.
0:07:23 > 0:07:27# You said you found the trick to gospel lyrics. #
0:07:27 > 0:07:31'I think there's been a way that those genres have stayed very alive'
0:07:31 > 0:07:35and vibrant to me in a way that sometimes rock 'n' roll hasn't done
0:07:35 > 0:07:40the best job of and there's been times in rock 'n' roll's history
0:07:40 > 0:07:43where it's become a bit of a caricature of itself
0:07:43 > 0:07:47and sort of bloated in that way. And it hasn't aged particularly well.
0:07:47 > 0:07:50The song kind of touches on that stuff.
0:07:50 > 0:07:53# Everybody gets the gospel lyrics are gifts. #
0:07:53 > 0:07:57'Rock 'n' roll is a music that is built off of copying.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00'It's not the original source material.'
0:08:00 > 0:08:03Howlin' Wolf and Muddy Waters and Chuck Berry and things like that
0:08:03 > 0:08:06are the original source material and
0:08:06 > 0:08:09it's tough to mine that effectively and creatively
0:08:09 > 0:08:14kind of at the same level each...each generation.
0:08:16 > 0:08:18# Everybody likes to talk
0:08:19 > 0:08:22# Everybody likes to talk shit, 'ey, 'ey. #
0:08:22 > 0:08:26I think rock 'n' roll will lose its footing
0:08:26 > 0:08:29as the sort of... Well, it already has,
0:08:29 > 0:08:32as the sort of the centrepiece of, like...
0:08:32 > 0:08:33the music of the culture.
0:08:33 > 0:08:36'But it's still important, it's still important music
0:08:36 > 0:08:40'and it's still important art. I just think it becomes...'
0:08:40 > 0:08:43maybe in a healthy way, it becomes more
0:08:43 > 0:08:46removed from the mainstream.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49# Ooh la la la, ooh la
0:08:49 > 0:08:51# Everybody likes to talk
0:08:51 > 0:08:53# Everybody likes to talk shit, 'ey, 'ey. #
0:09:05 > 0:09:07GUITAR RIFF
0:09:07 > 0:09:08SONG ENDS
0:09:11 > 0:09:12THEY LAUGH Oops.
0:09:15 > 0:09:17Now, Matthew basically opens the can of worms there,
0:09:17 > 0:09:20as to why we're here today, suggesting that rock 'n' roll
0:09:20 > 0:09:23has become a cliche in danger of repeating itself.
0:09:23 > 0:09:25John, I'm going to start with you.
0:09:25 > 0:09:26So Matthew talked about the fact that
0:09:26 > 0:09:28from the outset, it was a derivative form.
0:09:28 > 0:09:31- I mean, what do you think about that?- It was...- Is that a problem?
0:09:31 > 0:09:35I think it's a derivative form of a derivative form
0:09:35 > 0:09:37of a derivative form.
0:09:37 > 0:09:42It seems to be like a force of nature, you know, rock 'n' roll.
0:09:42 > 0:09:45You know, country music feeds into it.
0:09:45 > 0:09:48It's not just the blues, it's equal parts.
0:09:48 > 0:09:51- Appalachian and folk. - Appalachian, you know.
0:09:51 > 0:09:54Well, Elvis, you know. All things to all men, eh?
0:09:54 > 0:09:58Everybody in the world claims ownership of Elvis.
0:09:58 > 0:10:01I'm being a bit serious about it, but rock 'n' roll,
0:10:01 > 0:10:03you know it when you hear it. You know what is
0:10:03 > 0:10:06and you know what isn't rock 'n' roll. And it's...
0:10:06 > 0:10:08And as for rock 'n' roll repeating itself,
0:10:08 > 0:10:13it's been repeating itself since it was even given a name.
0:10:13 > 0:10:16Jehnny, you were nodding when John was speaking there,
0:10:16 > 0:10:19nodding about the fact that rock's been repeating itself
0:10:19 > 0:10:21since the very beginning. Why?
0:10:21 > 0:10:23Yeah, because I like that idea of...
0:10:23 > 0:10:27The way I see it is like a big ball, giant ball rolling down a hill
0:10:27 > 0:10:32and picking up people as it goes along and in forming itself,
0:10:32 > 0:10:36the past and future and present, in forming itself in that process.
0:10:36 > 0:10:40And I see it like a giant family, as well.
0:10:40 > 0:10:43I think when you, as you said, when you're young,
0:10:43 > 0:10:45it kind of touches your soul and your heart
0:10:45 > 0:10:48and you find a new family, it becomes your family.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51And when you meet like-minded people,
0:10:51 > 0:10:53who have been touched by the same thing,
0:10:53 > 0:10:55which you can't really explain what it is...
0:10:55 > 0:10:59Is it a sexual thing? Is it a...is it a spiritual thing?
0:10:59 > 0:11:02Is it a physical...? It could be many things,
0:11:02 > 0:11:06but you find yourself part of something bigger than yourself
0:11:06 > 0:11:07and it gives you a belief in your life.
0:11:07 > 0:11:09It's almost like church, you know.
0:11:09 > 0:11:11So it sounds like you disagree with Matthew E White.
0:11:11 > 0:11:14It's anything but cold, it's very much alive and vibrant.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17God, yeah! I mean, I don't... Yeah, I don't know.
0:11:17 > 0:11:19I don't think it's cold.
0:11:19 > 0:11:21When it turns cold, something's got wrong.
0:11:21 > 0:11:23Eric, you know, this is the music
0:11:23 > 0:11:26that...this derivative form that we're talking about,
0:11:26 > 0:11:30was it your generation that stole it first, would you say?
0:11:30 > 0:11:32What...you know? What did you grow up on?
0:11:32 > 0:11:35What kind of music really turned you on to rock 'n' roll?
0:11:35 > 0:11:39And how did you adapt your influences into something new?
0:11:39 > 0:11:41- Something of your own. - Well, it was liberation.
0:11:41 > 0:11:48It liberated me from my boring childhood in Newcastle.
0:11:48 > 0:11:52And I was lucky enough to get into art school
0:11:52 > 0:11:57and I met a lot of like-minded people in art school. And...
0:11:57 > 0:12:01we started to dig into the history,
0:12:01 > 0:12:04via books and recordings
0:12:04 > 0:12:09and found out that it was the underground,
0:12:09 > 0:12:15it was the black underground in the United States and that it...
0:12:15 > 0:12:19rock 'n' roll originally meant sexuality, you know.
0:12:19 > 0:12:22"To rock you, baby, all night long" didn't mean you were taking your
0:12:22 > 0:12:26little nephew and rocking him all night long, you know what I mean?
0:12:26 > 0:12:31It had a whole lot of connotations, but it was...
0:12:31 > 0:12:34it was the black underground spirit
0:12:34 > 0:12:38that came out of slavery in the South.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41Right, well, if rock 'n' roll is a closed book,
0:12:41 > 0:12:44a sort of 20th-century period piece, then who damn well wrote it?
0:12:44 > 0:12:48Many decades before the NME became a free sheet, there existed
0:12:48 > 0:12:51a healthy hinterland industry known as rock 'n' roll criticism.
0:12:51 > 0:12:53Writers could make a fairly decent living and,
0:12:53 > 0:12:56if you were especially talented, you were feted for your work.
0:12:56 > 0:12:58We caught up with the doyen of rock criticism,
0:12:58 > 0:13:00the music writer's writer,
0:13:00 > 0:13:02Charles Shaar Murray, on a sentimental stroll
0:13:02 > 0:13:06around London's Denmark Street, once better-known as Tin Pan Alley.
0:13:09 > 0:13:11# One, two, three, whoo! #
0:13:11 > 0:13:13ROCK MUSIC PLAYS
0:13:18 > 0:13:21Rock 'n' roll was a new music.
0:13:21 > 0:13:22When I first heard The Who,
0:13:22 > 0:13:27particularly things like My Generation, Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere,
0:13:27 > 0:13:30I thought, "They're saying what I feel. This is my music."
0:13:30 > 0:13:32"This speaks to me.
0:13:32 > 0:13:36"And to older people, it's just going to sound like this horrible noise,
0:13:36 > 0:13:39"but I know what it is and I know what it means."
0:13:39 > 0:13:41# Why don't you all f...fade away?
0:13:41 > 0:13:43# Talking 'bout my generation
0:13:43 > 0:13:47# Yeah, don't try to dig what we all s...say.
0:13:47 > 0:13:49# Talking 'bout my generation.. #
0:13:49 > 0:13:52'Zooming forward, you know, you have the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame,
0:13:52 > 0:13:57'you have people teaching courses in rock 'n' roll at universities.
0:13:57 > 0:13:59MUSIC: Don't Look Back Into The Sun by The Libertines
0:13:59 > 0:14:03'You have Pete Townshend touring at the age of 70 and,
0:14:03 > 0:14:07'for younger listeners, I can't imagine
0:14:07 > 0:14:11'that this is anything other than somewhat intimidating.'
0:14:11 > 0:14:13It's harder and harder to do something new
0:14:13 > 0:14:16when there's so much history to work with.
0:14:16 > 0:14:18What do you do?
0:14:18 > 0:14:20It's not my problem any more,
0:14:20 > 0:14:22but I'd like to hear what the youth think about it.
0:14:22 > 0:14:24Peace.
0:14:24 > 0:14:25SONG ENDS
0:14:29 > 0:14:32So, Jehnny, Charles there.
0:14:32 > 0:14:34A bit of a kiss-off there, as in, you know,
0:14:34 > 0:14:36rock 'n' roll is weighed down by its own history.
0:14:36 > 0:14:38Do you think he's right?
0:14:38 > 0:14:42Well, it's interesting. When you talk about the death of rock 'n' roll,
0:14:42 > 0:14:45because it's a thing that seems to happen every ten years, almost,
0:14:45 > 0:14:48it's a cyclical thing and I think the death of rock 'n' roll
0:14:48 > 0:14:52is the essence of rock 'n' roll, because you want...
0:14:52 > 0:14:56What you want rock 'n' roll to be is you want it to be pure,
0:14:56 > 0:14:58you know, authentic, ephemeral.
0:14:58 > 0:15:02And, by killing it, you know, you ensure its renaissance.
0:15:02 > 0:15:06I went to an interview of Greil Marcus...
0:15:06 > 0:15:10a journalist, erm, writer from the '60s, and he...
0:15:10 > 0:15:13And I saw that interview a few weeks ago,
0:15:13 > 0:15:18and he was saying something about that the first time
0:15:18 > 0:15:21he heard that rock 'n' roll was dead was in 1957,
0:15:21 > 0:15:23and it keeps going...
0:15:23 > 0:15:26He said this quote, that for music was really good,
0:15:26 > 0:15:28he said, "I've been to the funeral several times,
0:15:28 > 0:15:31"and the corpse keeps standing up and walking away."
0:15:31 > 0:15:33And also, I think, for my generation,
0:15:33 > 0:15:35it's really interesting to hear things like that.
0:15:35 > 0:15:37It always surprises me when people say,
0:15:37 > 0:15:39"Oh, everything has been done. What are you going to do now?"
0:15:39 > 0:15:43And as if I was born at the wrong time, you know?
0:15:43 > 0:15:48As if everything has happened before I was born, and now I'm here,
0:15:48 > 0:15:50and it's over, girl. Like, you can't do anything.
0:15:50 > 0:15:53It sounds like that puts a bit of fire in your belly, though,
0:15:53 > 0:15:56- when people say that to you. - It does a bit.- "Oh, it's all done.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58- "It's all been done before." - It does a bit, yeah.
0:15:58 > 0:16:01It's a bit unfair, isn't it? Like, as if my parents had the best time
0:16:01 > 0:16:04and I will never have the same time as they had, you know?
0:16:04 > 0:16:09It's like, well, you don't know about my present time, and I'm...
0:16:09 > 0:16:11I think music, and especially rock 'n' roll, is putting a mirror,
0:16:11 > 0:16:13you know, to what's happening now,
0:16:13 > 0:16:16and you can still talk to people, what's happening.
0:16:16 > 0:16:20I mean, we live under a quite crazy time, you know, still.
0:16:20 > 0:16:21And what about you guys?
0:16:21 > 0:16:23You must have heard rock 'n' roll is dead
0:16:23 > 0:16:27- a few times over the years. - You can only invent something once.
0:16:29 > 0:16:31Can't you? And after that, if it's... And that is a great...
0:16:31 > 0:16:34and rock 'n' roll is a great invention.
0:16:34 > 0:16:37But I think the big danger with rock 'n' roll was that it
0:16:37 > 0:16:42came in the late '60s, when, I think when, which...it's my pet hate...
0:16:42 > 0:16:48when technical expertise became paramount.
0:16:48 > 0:16:50I think the main thing about rock 'n' roll is
0:16:50 > 0:16:53that the musicians shouldn't get any better.
0:16:53 > 0:16:58You know, Chuck Berry is as bad a guitar player now as he ever was.
0:16:58 > 0:17:00It's part of his charm.
0:17:00 > 0:17:02That's why he's still doing shows all over the world.
0:17:02 > 0:17:05The problem that I have with rock 'n' roll today
0:17:05 > 0:17:07is it's become fashion.
0:17:07 > 0:17:10- Yeah?- And when I was a...
0:17:10 > 0:17:13I still am the same way.
0:17:13 > 0:17:15Fashion in rock 'n' roll, to me,
0:17:15 > 0:17:18is a leather jacket and dark glasses,
0:17:18 > 0:17:19- and that's it.- And that's it?
0:17:19 > 0:17:22That's all the fashion that you need, you know?
0:17:22 > 0:17:24You're a rebel, you know?
0:17:24 > 0:17:27But, well, fashion is one problem, Eric, but what about the kind of
0:17:27 > 0:17:29corporate side of it that Charles was talking about in the film?
0:17:29 > 0:17:33I mean, cos rock 'n' roll - perhaps less than it used to be now -
0:17:33 > 0:17:36but it certainly has been very, very big business for a few decades.
0:17:36 > 0:17:38I mean, is that part of the problem?
0:17:38 > 0:17:42The music industry, the business side of the music industry?
0:17:42 > 0:17:44I think it's inseparable from it.
0:17:44 > 0:17:48You know, rock 'n' roll is the folk music of capitalism,
0:17:48 > 0:17:51and it's geared to success,
0:17:51 > 0:17:57and it will always attract those people that will further its cause,
0:17:57 > 0:18:01cos it's dealing with the hormonal issues
0:18:01 > 0:18:05that are renewed with every generation.
0:18:05 > 0:18:07And you know, so, that is
0:18:07 > 0:18:12a need that must always be catered to every few years,
0:18:12 > 0:18:14and there's money in that.
0:18:14 > 0:18:17And I think right from the start, you know, where did it come from?
0:18:17 > 0:18:20It came from capitalist America, you know?
0:18:20 > 0:18:26Why did the young people of England latch onto it so readily?
0:18:26 > 0:18:29Because they wanted a piece of the American dream.
0:18:29 > 0:18:31Just that piece, you know.
0:18:31 > 0:18:34- Well, speaking of America... - I really think it's important.
0:18:34 > 0:18:37I've got some Americans I've got to throw to now, if that's all right.
0:18:37 > 0:18:40We're going to get the perspective of, arguably,
0:18:40 > 0:18:41today's biggest rock band.
0:18:41 > 0:18:44Success in mainstream rock today seems to be about
0:18:44 > 0:18:47staying the course, and no band better exemplifies this than
0:18:47 > 0:18:50the Foo Fighters, who've spent 20 years getting bigger and bigger.
0:18:50 > 0:18:54We caught up with Taylor Hawkins and Dave Grohl before that accident
0:18:54 > 0:18:57to find out what they think it means to be rock 'n' roll today.
0:18:57 > 0:18:59CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:18:59 > 0:19:03MUSIC: Monkey Wrench by Foo Fighters
0:19:03 > 0:19:04'In a nutshell, we've watched'
0:19:04 > 0:19:08this band go from the van and the clubs
0:19:08 > 0:19:10to playing stadiums
0:19:10 > 0:19:12over the last 20 years.
0:19:12 > 0:19:15# What have we done with innocence...? #
0:19:17 > 0:19:19'In the early days, I loved it.
0:19:19 > 0:19:23'I loved being in those sweaty clubs and in the theatres.'
0:19:23 > 0:19:25Around the ten-year mark, we started playing arenas.
0:19:25 > 0:19:28I loved it. I couldn't believe we were playing arenas.
0:19:28 > 0:19:30I couldn't believe we'd been a band for ten years.
0:19:30 > 0:19:33Now, we're playing stadiums. I can't believe it,
0:19:33 > 0:19:36and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.
0:19:36 > 0:19:39I don't wish it were like it used to be.
0:19:39 > 0:19:44# Don't wanna be your monkey wrench... #
0:19:44 > 0:19:47'I mean, there's probably not as many young rock bands as there were'
0:19:47 > 0:19:49maybe, 15 or 20 years ago, you know?
0:19:49 > 0:19:53Things may have been a bit more rock-centric before,
0:19:53 > 0:19:56'but, you know, there's still bands that I think have a rock 'n' roll
0:19:56 > 0:20:00'attitude that might not conform to that rock 'n' roll formula.'
0:20:00 > 0:20:01You know, I still believe that, like,
0:20:01 > 0:20:04- the Prodigy are a rock 'n' roll band. - Absolutely.- You know what I mean?
0:20:04 > 0:20:06MUSIC: The Pretender by Foo Fighters
0:20:06 > 0:20:09# What if I say I'm not like the others...? #
0:20:09 > 0:20:11'I mean, as far as, like, guitars and drums
0:20:11 > 0:20:13'and there's a guy up at the mic screaming,'
0:20:13 > 0:20:16there might not be too many of those any more.
0:20:16 > 0:20:18There'll be more. You know, there always is.
0:20:18 > 0:20:20- Yeah.- I mean, because I think there's that simple...
0:20:20 > 0:20:24It's just something that you... that kids can do -
0:20:24 > 0:20:27be in a room together with drums and a guitar, loud,
0:20:27 > 0:20:29and that same feeling that you get, you know,
0:20:29 > 0:20:31that we still get the same feeling
0:20:31 > 0:20:35if we sit in a jam room and haven't played together for a while.
0:20:35 > 0:20:36We love it, and it's like...
0:20:36 > 0:20:39It brings us back to that simplest form of just
0:20:39 > 0:20:42aggression and energy and, you know, having fun.
0:20:42 > 0:20:44You know, and I think that will always exist.
0:20:50 > 0:20:52To Dave and Taylor, it's clear that being in a band is,
0:20:52 > 0:20:55for want of a better word, a career, and it's something
0:20:55 > 0:20:58that they're going to do until the rest of their gigging legs
0:20:58 > 0:21:01fail them, but this idea is something quite recent to music.
0:21:01 > 0:21:03I mean, Eric, when you started out,
0:21:03 > 0:21:06did you expect to be gigging this time later?
0:21:06 > 0:21:08I mean, it's 50 years
0:21:08 > 0:21:11- you've been making music now. - I never expected to live to see 30,
0:21:11 > 0:21:16and all of my comrades that I hung out with,
0:21:16 > 0:21:19we never, ever thought we'd see 30 years of age,
0:21:19 > 0:21:24so anything beyond that was a gift.
0:21:24 > 0:21:28But I go on stage, and I do an hour and a half
0:21:28 > 0:21:31of nonstop belting with my voice,
0:21:31 > 0:21:34and where do I get that from? How?
0:21:34 > 0:21:36What allows me to do that?
0:21:36 > 0:21:39The power that comes from the audience.
0:21:39 > 0:21:43Erm, Jehnny, can I come to you? I mean, was this ever...?
0:21:43 > 0:21:45Is this a career choice for you?
0:21:45 > 0:21:48Are we speaking to you as your career progresses?
0:21:48 > 0:21:51Is that how you see it, or is that an anathema to you?
0:21:51 > 0:21:53It was a life choice, I think.
0:21:53 > 0:21:57When I started making music, I did it for love, because I fell in love
0:21:57 > 0:22:00with someone who was making music and I started making music with him.
0:22:00 > 0:22:01And how is it to live that?
0:22:01 > 0:22:05I mean, is it easy to get by as a musician these days?
0:22:05 > 0:22:07Well, erm...
0:22:09 > 0:22:11I mean, no.
0:22:11 > 0:22:12I mean, how do I put it?
0:22:12 > 0:22:15When I started making music professionally,
0:22:15 > 0:22:20so, it was in 2007, so that's right when the crisis started
0:22:20 > 0:22:25in the music industry, so I've never known any golden years of...
0:22:25 > 0:22:28You know, it's only started to get better now, I think, a little bit.
0:22:28 > 0:22:30I think I see a few changes in it.
0:22:30 > 0:22:33So I see my generation getting, you know,
0:22:33 > 0:22:36people from my generation getting more success and getting more
0:22:36 > 0:22:39established, maybe, and trying to change the rules a bit,
0:22:39 > 0:22:42changing things around, and having a bit more of a voice.
0:22:42 > 0:22:44You know, like, me being here today, for example.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47You talk... I mean, you've been talking a lot about
0:22:47 > 0:22:49this kind of...the rawness.
0:22:49 > 0:22:51And this kind of, you know, energy,
0:22:51 > 0:22:54and obviously, you know, the band's name, Savages,
0:22:54 > 0:22:56it seems like when you guys came along,
0:22:56 > 0:22:58that was something that was missing -
0:22:58 > 0:23:01- a kind of confrontational attitude. - Oh, God, I mean...
0:23:01 > 0:23:03I mean, I remember it. You just couldn't find it.
0:23:03 > 0:23:06I remember going through... Being at a festival, going through the bill
0:23:06 > 0:23:09and trying to find something angry and there was nothing there.
0:23:09 > 0:23:12I agree. I mean, I remember before starting Savages,
0:23:12 > 0:23:13trying to go and see gigs,
0:23:13 > 0:23:17and going to, I don't know, events or stuff, and everything was twee.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20Like, everything was twee... LAUGHTER
0:23:20 > 0:23:22..and shoegazing, people were looking at their shoes,
0:23:22 > 0:23:25their hair in their face, and twee.
0:23:25 > 0:23:27It was... It was just boring.
0:23:27 > 0:23:30I was dying for something to happen and when we started Savages,
0:23:30 > 0:23:34it was definitely, like, let's do something that isn't around,
0:23:34 > 0:23:36because we're missing that connection.
0:23:36 > 0:23:38I mean, John, what you think of this?
0:23:38 > 0:23:41Because it is... You know, we're talking about...
0:23:41 > 0:23:43We've just been seeing the Foo Fighters there,
0:23:43 > 0:23:46and you know, there's a lot of those kind of very, very big bands today,
0:23:46 > 0:23:48that when you go to see them,
0:23:48 > 0:23:51their gigs are fantastic experiences for the fans
0:23:51 > 0:23:54but they are, you know, they're very polite, they're kind of pleasant.
0:23:54 > 0:24:00They're lovely people. Should rock music be about being disagreeable?
0:24:00 > 0:24:03Do you know what I mean? Are we losing something if we lose that?
0:24:03 > 0:24:06Is rock 'n' roll supposed to get up people's noses?
0:24:06 > 0:24:08To be honest, I...
0:24:08 > 0:24:14hand on heart, I never really got the arena experience.
0:24:14 > 0:24:20For me, that's up there with, I don't know, sport or something.
0:24:20 > 0:24:21- It's...- With what?
0:24:21 > 0:24:24- Sport, or...- Sport?
0:24:24 > 0:24:27It doesn't, like, touch the buttons that I think
0:24:27 > 0:24:30an intense rock 'n' roll experience ought to do.
0:24:30 > 0:24:34There should be some kind of compression about it.
0:24:34 > 0:24:38You know, like, under a roof, with walls,
0:24:38 > 0:24:44and a certain amount of people outside who are disappointed
0:24:44 > 0:24:46because they can't get in.
0:24:46 > 0:24:50You know, and it all kind of adds to that rock 'n' roll,
0:24:50 > 0:24:54you know, "you had to be there" experience kind of thing.
0:24:54 > 0:24:57To some, rock 'n' roll is purely a 20th-century phenomenon -
0:24:57 > 0:25:01a product of a time before the internet, when it was possible
0:25:01 > 0:25:05for just one band to capture the imaginations of a generation.
0:25:05 > 0:25:08One of the last groups lucky enough to achieve this status was Oasis.
0:25:08 > 0:25:11We caught up with songwriter Noel Gallagher in Paris
0:25:11 > 0:25:13for his thoughts on what's changed.
0:25:13 > 0:25:17Viewers beware - as with anything Gallagher-related, this VT features
0:25:17 > 0:25:21some very strong opinions and some appalling and horrendous language.
0:25:21 > 0:25:23LAUGHTER
0:25:23 > 0:25:26MUSIC: Rock 'n' Roll Star by Oasis
0:25:26 > 0:25:33# Tonight, I'm a rock 'n' roll star
0:25:33 > 0:25:38# Tonight, I'm a rock 'n' roll star... #
0:25:40 > 0:25:42Oasis was the last band from the old world.
0:25:42 > 0:25:44We happened before the digital age.
0:25:44 > 0:25:46# Oh, there's no easy way out... #
0:25:46 > 0:25:50'When somebody would say to someone in 1994,'
0:25:50 > 0:25:53"Have you heard that Supersonic by Oasis?"
0:25:53 > 0:25:55"Who?" "Oasis."
0:25:55 > 0:25:56"What is it?"
0:25:56 > 0:25:59"On the radio, it was called Supersonic. Have you heard it?"
0:25:59 > 0:26:01"No." You had to fucking wait another week
0:26:01 > 0:26:03before you might catch it on the radio, right.
0:26:03 > 0:26:08# I need to be myself
0:26:08 > 0:26:11# I can't be no-one else... #
0:26:11 > 0:26:15'Know what happens now? Someone says, "Have you heard that song by that band Oasis?" '
0:26:15 > 0:26:18"No, I haven't, what's it called?" "It's called Supersonic."
0:26:18 > 0:26:21"Supersonic, let's have a look in there...
0:26:21 > 0:26:24"There's a fucking bald guy in the band, I'm not having that. Next."
0:26:24 > 0:26:28# Cos my friend said he'd take you home... #
0:26:28 > 0:26:30'Cos in theory, the internet and YouTube,
0:26:30 > 0:26:34'they should be helping bands get off the ground, but it's not.'
0:26:34 > 0:26:36You know, it's got worse.
0:26:36 > 0:26:38MUSIC: Don't Look Back In Anger by Oasis
0:26:38 > 0:26:41# Slip inside the eye of your mind... #
0:26:41 > 0:26:45The record labels are not interested in working-class bands any more.
0:26:45 > 0:26:48'I just... We live in a different era, know what I mean?
0:26:48 > 0:26:51'But the working-class bands are out there, but saying that, though,'
0:26:51 > 0:26:52no-one's ever going to convince me
0:26:52 > 0:26:55that there's a bunch of guys on a council estate
0:26:55 > 0:26:57writing the greatest songs and they're not being discovered.
0:26:57 > 0:26:59That's fucking nonsense.
0:26:59 > 0:27:04# Please don't put your life in the hands
0:27:04 > 0:27:07# Of a rock 'n' roll band
0:27:07 > 0:27:10# Who'll throw it all away... #
0:27:10 > 0:27:14'If there's any blame, you know, attach it to record labels.
0:27:14 > 0:27:16'You know, if you think that'
0:27:16 > 0:27:18the big major record labels...
0:27:18 > 0:27:22the two biggest indie albums of the '90s,
0:27:22 > 0:27:23which is Nevermind
0:27:23 > 0:27:26'and Morning Glory,
0:27:26 > 0:27:31'from the point of them being huge, the record business as a whole'
0:27:31 > 0:27:36turned its focus on indie music and alternative music.
0:27:36 > 0:27:38And then, they bought up all the indie labels
0:27:38 > 0:27:42and shut them all down, and now they've moved on, you know?
0:27:42 > 0:27:44All those people that were out there looking to discover
0:27:44 > 0:27:47the My Bloody Valentines, and Primal Screams -
0:27:47 > 0:27:50they're not there any more. They're doing other things,
0:27:50 > 0:27:52probably working in fucking IT or summat.
0:27:52 > 0:27:56# Wherever you are, I'll be on your tail
0:27:56 > 0:27:59# Whatever you're hiding behind your veil
0:27:59 > 0:28:00# I'll find you... #
0:28:00 > 0:28:02So, do you think rock 'n' roll is dead, then?
0:28:02 > 0:28:03Is that what you're saying?
0:28:03 > 0:28:05Not as long as I'm still fucking going it's not.
0:28:05 > 0:28:07# I'll find you... #
0:28:07 > 0:28:12'It's there but it certainly is not the regeneration process.
0:28:12 > 0:28:17'If you think that the last great collection of groups came out'
0:28:17 > 0:28:20ten years after Definitely Maybe, and that was Arctic Monkeys
0:28:20 > 0:28:22and Kasabian and Razorlight, and The Libertines and all that,
0:28:22 > 0:28:26since then, there's been nothing. You name me one band since...
0:28:26 > 0:28:29and that was.... so that's ten years ago.
0:28:31 > 0:28:35Alternative music never used to go ten years
0:28:35 > 0:28:38without regenerating itself, ever, ever.
0:28:38 > 0:28:39It was five at the most, you know?
0:28:39 > 0:28:42There was a five-year gap between The Jam and The Smiths,
0:28:42 > 0:28:45and The Smiths and The Stone Roses, and The Stone Roses and Oasis.
0:28:45 > 0:28:49You know what I mean? So...
0:28:49 > 0:28:51the evidence is that it's kind of...
0:28:52 > 0:28:55..it's certainly in hibernation, for sure.
0:29:01 > 0:29:02Strong stuff from Noel Gallagher,
0:29:02 > 0:29:05who clearly doesn't listen to my radio show!
0:29:05 > 0:29:07And I'm going to come to you, Jehnny,
0:29:07 > 0:29:10because there was an expletive uttered in the closing stages,
0:29:10 > 0:29:12there, and a bit of an eye-roll.
0:29:12 > 0:29:15I mean, do you think he's wrong?
0:29:15 > 0:29:18Of course he's wrong! Yeah... LAUGHTER
0:29:18 > 0:29:20I mean, yeah, of course he's wrong.
0:29:20 > 0:29:24I mean, I understand why he's not on the cover of the NME every month
0:29:24 > 0:29:27because, you know, if that's all they think there is.
0:29:27 > 0:29:30But there is new music, you know.
0:29:30 > 0:29:32But I think he, yeah...
0:29:32 > 0:29:35I don't...I don't... I don't think he's right, but...
0:29:35 > 0:29:36Where should you look?
0:29:36 > 0:29:39Where is...? As he's talking about, obviously, that kind of...
0:29:39 > 0:29:41I think he's judging on success.
0:29:41 > 0:29:43I think he's thinking of...
0:29:43 > 0:29:45because all the bands he's talking about
0:29:45 > 0:29:48are bands who have reached a wide, wide audience, so I don't think...
0:29:48 > 0:29:51- I think that's what he's talking about, basically.- Yeah.- Like...
0:29:51 > 0:29:56A band that he values is rock 'n' roll reaching a very wide audience.
0:29:56 > 0:29:59I mean, Noel talks about class there, as well, of course.
0:29:59 > 0:30:01I mean, you guys and The Beatles,
0:30:01 > 0:30:03you had, I think, one of the first two bands
0:30:03 > 0:30:05- to have a number one in America, right?- Yeah...
0:30:05 > 0:30:07What did they make of you,
0:30:07 > 0:30:11- a working-class kid from Newcastle? - Well, we took a lot of flak
0:30:11 > 0:30:15from a lot of people, being white boys playing black music,
0:30:15 > 0:30:17to start with. But you know something, we never got that from
0:30:17 > 0:30:19the musicians. It was always
0:30:19 > 0:30:25the critics, it was always certain elements in the crowd.
0:30:25 > 0:30:29But we never got that from the black musicians in America.
0:30:29 > 0:30:33It was like, "Hey, you guys are doin' it!
0:30:33 > 0:30:36"You're bringin' it alive again. Come on in! Jam!"
0:30:36 > 0:30:42I mean, I met John Lee Hooker and became close friends with him.
0:30:42 > 0:30:45He gave me his address. "When you get to America, look me up!
0:30:45 > 0:30:49"Come and stay with me." He showed me around Detroit,
0:30:49 > 0:30:51which is where he was living at the time.
0:30:51 > 0:30:58And I never met a more... Not one person, but a group of people
0:30:58 > 0:31:04that were more open, willing, loving. You know, wanting to share
0:31:04 > 0:31:05what they had with the world, you know?
0:31:05 > 0:31:08Amazing. John, I want to ask you, as well,
0:31:08 > 0:31:13about Noel's thought about class. I think you once said that,
0:31:13 > 0:31:20for you, punk was an escape route and performance was an escape route
0:31:20 > 0:31:23or an option, in a way that perhaps it's not for kids growing up
0:31:23 > 0:31:25these days - working-class kids.
0:31:25 > 0:31:29I'm from a... I always figured,
0:31:29 > 0:31:32if you are going to make it in any, kind of,
0:31:32 > 0:31:34intuitive field of endeavour,
0:31:34 > 0:31:40artistically or in music or something,
0:31:40 > 0:31:42you would have to go to London.
0:31:42 > 0:31:48And I think, you know, punk brought about a lot of independent labels
0:31:48 > 0:31:50in the provinces, you know,
0:31:50 > 0:31:53that provided a platform for...
0:31:53 > 0:31:59for a lot of kids that... I think didn't exist before that.
0:31:59 > 0:32:03Whether they exist any more, I don't know, but I don't know how any...
0:32:03 > 0:32:09I don't know how any musician makes a living, really, now, you know.
0:32:09 > 0:32:13I still buy CDs with the same spirit that I...
0:32:13 > 0:32:17I'll wait an extra 45 minutes at a human cashier in a supermarket,
0:32:17 > 0:32:22because I believe in full employment and people getting paid
0:32:22 > 0:32:23for their work.
0:32:23 > 0:32:27But maybe I'm eccentric this way.
0:32:27 > 0:32:31But I can't compete with any of the stories that...
0:32:31 > 0:32:34that Eric would have to tell about those days.
0:32:34 > 0:32:37And I remember these times that
0:32:37 > 0:32:39Eric is talking about, from the point of view
0:32:39 > 0:32:43- of a punter.- Yeah, I just wanted to get out of here.
0:32:43 > 0:32:46- Get out of this place! - Got to get out of this place!
0:32:46 > 0:32:48- Got to get out of this place! - Yeah, right.
0:32:48 > 0:32:51- Yeah, right. - That song spoke to me, absolutely.
0:32:51 > 0:32:55I should have cited that song, We Gotta Get Outta This Place.
0:32:55 > 0:32:58That was, sort of, the view of anybody that lived in the provinces
0:32:58 > 0:33:00in the '60s, wasn't it? It was a time of great social mobility
0:33:00 > 0:33:02for a little while.
0:33:02 > 0:33:04Yeah, I wanted to get out of Newcastle,
0:33:04 > 0:33:06then I wanted to get out of London. I wanted to get out of New York
0:33:06 > 0:33:12and I ended up on the West Coast. I'm like, "Yeah! I can breathe!"
0:33:12 > 0:33:16Jehnny, is that the life you're living? Did that ring bells?
0:33:16 > 0:33:19I can totally relate to what they're saying.
0:33:19 > 0:33:22This is exactly what happens when you are, like, 15 or 13.
0:33:22 > 0:33:28I grew up in a small town in France and I can relate to that.
0:33:28 > 0:33:32I was bored to death, but the music was what was keeping me from
0:33:32 > 0:33:37dreaming and every week, I would wait to have enough money to buy my CD,
0:33:37 > 0:33:41my one CD a week, and it would be... yeah, something.
0:33:41 > 0:33:43What were you listening to?
0:33:43 > 0:33:46When you buy the wrong one, it's really annoying, when it's shit!
0:33:46 > 0:33:48What were you listening to? What did you grow up on?
0:33:48 > 0:33:50Had to wait for another week. Erm...
0:33:50 > 0:33:54I was listening to Sonic Youth, I was listening to Blonde Redhead,
0:33:54 > 0:33:59I was listening to...erm... PJ Harvey, I was listening to.
0:33:59 > 0:34:00And then the old stuff, as well!
0:34:00 > 0:34:04But, I think music was a means to emancipation and, you know,
0:34:04 > 0:34:10to growing out of where you are and becoming, you know,
0:34:10 > 0:34:13someone else, someone, the person you are supposed to be.
0:34:13 > 0:34:16All right. The recent BBC Four documentary series
0:34:16 > 0:34:19Rock 'n' Roll America celebrated the music's black southern roots.
0:34:19 > 0:34:23One of the bands currently rocking our 21st-century world is
0:34:23 > 0:34:26Alabama Shakes, who, as their name suggests,
0:34:26 > 0:34:28hail from this mythic region.
0:34:28 > 0:34:30We caught up with lead singer Brittany Howard
0:34:30 > 0:34:33to see what rock 'n' roll means to her.
0:34:40 > 0:34:47# You got to hold on... #
0:34:47 > 0:34:50When I think of rock 'n' roll, I don't think about somebody dressed up
0:34:50 > 0:34:52real nice and standing still.
0:34:52 > 0:34:54'No, I tend to think about people dancing.
0:34:54 > 0:34:56'The pictures you see of Elvis,'
0:34:56 > 0:34:58he's sweating, his hair's on the front of his head,
0:34:58 > 0:35:01you know, it was hot in there, there's no air conditioning there.
0:35:01 > 0:35:03And you're giving it all you've got.
0:35:03 > 0:35:05# Bless my heart
0:35:05 > 0:35:07# And bless yours too... #
0:35:07 > 0:35:11'The cool thing about rock 'n' roll, it doesn't have to be hard, doesn't have to be difficult,'
0:35:11 > 0:35:14it doesn't have to be super thought out. It's just fun.
0:35:14 > 0:35:17And that's the part from rock 'n' roll that we took
0:35:17 > 0:35:19to make this band come together.
0:35:19 > 0:35:21# Yeah, you got to work
0:35:25 > 0:35:28# Yeah, you got to work... #
0:35:28 > 0:35:32'By my own definition, I'm in a rock 'n' roll band because'
0:35:32 > 0:35:35what we do is raw and visceral and it's loud and it's attacking
0:35:35 > 0:35:39and it's supposed to be making this connection with the audience.
0:35:39 > 0:35:42'Kind of nice to look at something and be able to relate to it
0:35:42 > 0:35:43'and be like, "Yeah, you know,'
0:35:43 > 0:35:46"I'm probably not going to grow up to be a doctor
0:35:46 > 0:35:48"and that's OK cos I've got my rock 'n' roll
0:35:48 > 0:35:50"and it understands me and I understand it."
0:35:50 > 0:35:53'It's the only... It's the only way.'
0:35:53 > 0:35:55It's the only correct band to be in.
0:35:57 > 0:36:01# Hold on. #
0:36:06 > 0:36:09Alabama Shakes there, taking it way back home.
0:36:09 > 0:36:13Rock 'n' roll, we mean it, man, the message, the music, the outlook,
0:36:13 > 0:36:17it's usually antiestablishment, and from Woody Guthrie to Red Wedge,
0:36:17 > 0:36:20it's often been used as an explicit political tool.
0:36:20 > 0:36:23Now we're going to hear from a bunch of unlikely bedfellows,
0:36:23 > 0:36:26Billy Bragg, Merrill Garbus of Tune-Yards and Sleaford Mods
0:36:26 > 0:36:29ask how do you make your point in music?
0:36:29 > 0:36:32And precisely what is that point now?
0:36:36 > 0:36:39Well, when I first started writing music
0:36:39 > 0:36:42there was no other way that my voice could be heard.
0:36:42 > 0:36:45When I felt angry about the world, and it didn't necessarily be
0:36:45 > 0:36:49political, just angry about being a teenager, you know,
0:36:49 > 0:36:53the only medium that was open to someone like me, working-class lad,
0:36:53 > 0:36:55'left school at 16, was to learn to play guitar,
0:36:55 > 0:36:58'to write songs and to do gigs.'
0:36:58 > 0:37:01# After all this it won't be the same
0:37:01 > 0:37:04# Messing around on Salisbury Plain. #
0:37:05 > 0:37:07'Now, if I was a 19-year-old
0:37:07 > 0:37:10'feeling angry about the way of the world'
0:37:10 > 0:37:13I could either start a Facebook page, you know,
0:37:13 > 0:37:16get an argument going on Twitter,
0:37:16 > 0:37:20'write a blog, I could even make a film with my phone.'
0:37:22 > 0:37:26Music has lost its vanguard role as the sole social medium.
0:37:26 > 0:37:29# No water in the water fountain... #
0:37:29 > 0:37:31'I find that it's really hard'
0:37:31 > 0:37:33to tell stories or be preaching
0:37:33 > 0:37:38in a way that music in the '60s and '70s could afford to be.
0:37:38 > 0:37:41There were very specific things that music protested,
0:37:41 > 0:37:44the Vietnam War, you know, there were causes that were clear
0:37:44 > 0:37:49and in the US I think that the black community has a lot to
0:37:49 > 0:37:53clearly protest against in a way that middle-class white kids
0:37:53 > 0:37:56aren't so clear about what they're protesting any more.
0:37:56 > 0:37:58What happened to that,
0:37:58 > 0:38:02that time where people weren't afraid to open their mouths, you know?
0:38:02 > 0:38:05# The dinosaurs are stuck on Denmark Street.... #
0:38:05 > 0:38:09'A lot of the so-called elite bands at the minute, they're all products
0:38:09 > 0:38:10of big companies'
0:38:10 > 0:38:13and they're just good employees, basically.
0:38:13 > 0:38:14# ..caravan on Tiswas
0:38:14 > 0:38:17# The dinosaurs are stuck, no way to get down... #
0:38:17 > 0:38:20If you're some angry guitar band, you know, with lyrics
0:38:20 > 0:38:23railing against everything, you're not going to want that much success,
0:38:23 > 0:38:26- you're not going to want to know the industry at all.- No.
0:38:26 > 0:38:30- You're already doing what you want to do, which is do gigs.- Yes.
0:38:30 > 0:38:35So that's the issue, striking a chord with a bigger amount of people
0:38:35 > 0:38:39is a different thing, and in some ways we seem to have done that
0:38:39 > 0:38:41but I don't know how we did that.
0:38:41 > 0:38:43It just seems to have happened, you know.
0:38:43 > 0:38:50# OTT! #
0:38:52 > 0:38:54Sleaford Mods,
0:38:54 > 0:38:57whose no-holds-barred chronicles of modern Britain have earned them
0:38:57 > 0:39:00a legion of fans, and a couple of enemies too - not me, though.
0:39:00 > 0:39:03Love them. They put us in a song. Thanks very much, lads.
0:39:03 > 0:39:05Anyway, back to the task at hand.
0:39:05 > 0:39:08Jehnny, can rock 'n' roll change the world?
0:39:08 > 0:39:12I think Viv Albertine from The Slits recently said that,
0:39:12 > 0:39:15you know, you would be better off not picking up a guitar
0:39:15 > 0:39:17if you want to protest today. Is she right?
0:39:19 > 0:39:22I watched that interview and at the end she's asked that question,
0:39:22 > 0:39:25is, can music be revolutionary any more?
0:39:25 > 0:39:28And she says, "Well, if I was young today,
0:39:28 > 0:39:32"I would become a human rights lawyer, I wouldn't pick up a guitar."
0:39:34 > 0:39:36I didn't understand why she said that.
0:39:36 > 0:39:41I was a bit angry, I was a bit...
0:39:41 > 0:39:48You know, I felt it was, first, denying a little bit what she did,
0:39:48 > 0:39:52and also saying,
0:39:52 > 0:39:54"Well, I did it and now it's done."
0:39:54 > 0:39:58You know, it was denying the freedom that a young girl today
0:39:58 > 0:40:01could feel in any part of the world, like,
0:40:01 > 0:40:06if you're not just thinking about England, the freedom a young girl
0:40:06 > 0:40:09could feel in picking up a guitar herself and expressing herself.
0:40:09 > 0:40:12It's interesting, isn't it? Cos with Viv,
0:40:12 > 0:40:14I suppose what she, maybe what she's saying is,
0:40:14 > 0:40:18you know, get your hands dirty, change the world, take direct action
0:40:18 > 0:40:20and perhaps... Cos she's somebody that inspired me,
0:40:20 > 0:40:23if I'd never listened to The Slits I wouldn't be sitting here,
0:40:23 > 0:40:27and I'm sure the same goes for you but perhaps she's saying maybe
0:40:27 > 0:40:30that just takes too long, to just, you know, to do it that way,
0:40:30 > 0:40:32it's just not quick enough.
0:40:32 > 0:40:36Yes, I think maybe her role would be more interesting today if she could
0:40:36 > 0:40:41be inspiring instead of being, you know, telling that it's not worth it.
0:40:41 > 0:40:44You know, "I've done it, you don't need to do it."
0:40:44 > 0:40:46That's all I am saying.
0:40:46 > 0:40:51John, do you think that rock 'n' roll always has to have a political point of view?
0:40:51 > 0:40:53No, not at all.
0:40:53 > 0:40:57I think rock 'n' roll is at its best when it's the vehicle
0:40:57 > 0:41:01of either extreme pleasure
0:41:01 > 0:41:05or extreme melancholia
0:41:05 > 0:41:08or, I think the subjects,
0:41:08 > 0:41:13the best subjects for rock 'n' roll are to do with instant
0:41:13 > 0:41:18gratification, speed and sensation,
0:41:18 > 0:41:21the sensations of life.
0:41:21 > 0:41:24It's not a ruminative medium.
0:41:24 > 0:41:29Somehow, I guess that's why they invented folk music.
0:41:29 > 0:41:30LAUGHTER
0:41:30 > 0:41:34- So, it's Johnny Kidd and the Pirates for you, Shaking All Over. - Every time.
0:41:34 > 0:41:37I think it's at its best and at its strongest when it's doing that,
0:41:37 > 0:41:42when it's expressing those kind of fleeting sensations,
0:41:42 > 0:41:47you know, that very often don't even last longer than two and a half minutes.
0:41:49 > 0:41:52OK, Eric, we mentioned, I think briefly,
0:41:52 > 0:41:54We Gotta Get Out Of This Place, which...
0:41:54 > 0:41:59Now that's an exception that proves the rule. That's a very...
0:41:59 > 0:42:05I'm not saying that it can't be the vehicle for social,
0:42:05 > 0:42:10you know, clever social lyrics, I'm not ruling them out.
0:42:10 > 0:42:15You know, Chuck Berry does that like nobody else, you know,
0:42:15 > 0:42:18every note is a word.
0:42:18 > 0:42:20If you read that aloud,
0:42:20 > 0:42:23if you read the lyrics to a Chuck Berry song aloud,
0:42:23 > 0:42:26you would be singing the song.
0:42:26 > 0:42:29It doesn't leave you any other way to go.
0:42:29 > 0:42:33That's the thing about rock 'n' roll, it shouldn't leave anything to the imagination.
0:42:33 > 0:42:37Eric, can I ask about We Gotta Get Out Of This Place
0:42:37 > 0:42:41because it really, it sums up that kind of world-changing ambition
0:42:41 > 0:42:45and, as you say, that lyric is so powerful.
0:42:45 > 0:42:47Tell me a bit about the story of that song.
0:42:47 > 0:42:50Well, going back to the original question that you posed,
0:42:50 > 0:42:54can rock 'n' roll change the world? rock 'n' roll has changed the world.
0:42:54 > 0:42:56- It already has. - It already has.- Amen!
0:42:56 > 0:42:59You don't have to preach politics
0:42:59 > 0:43:04because the people pick the politics out of the meaning in the songs,
0:43:04 > 0:43:08you know? Bob Dylan was a great exponent of that.
0:43:08 > 0:43:11Just recently I was in Croatia.
0:43:11 > 0:43:13They asked me to sing,
0:43:13 > 0:43:16"Would you sing House Of The Rising Sun again one more time?"
0:43:16 > 0:43:18"Oh, no, I'm sick of singing that," you know.
0:43:18 > 0:43:22I got to the stage area and I had no idea what I was facing,
0:43:22 > 0:43:26I climbed up the stairs, got on the stage, there was a microphone
0:43:26 > 0:43:30and I hear the opening chords to House Of The Rising Sun.
0:43:30 > 0:43:36There was 10,000 kids in the audience with guitars,
0:43:36 > 0:43:40playing the opening sequence to House Of The Rising Sun.
0:43:40 > 0:43:43That was going out live on TV
0:43:43 > 0:43:46to millions, millions of people.
0:43:46 > 0:43:50And I'll never, ever run down that song again
0:43:50 > 0:43:53because I realised the importance of it.
0:43:53 > 0:43:57It was helping kids to pick up a guitar and play
0:43:57 > 0:44:02those opening chords and from there they take it on to another level.
0:44:02 > 0:44:05You've had had many instances of that over the years, though.
0:44:05 > 0:44:08I mean, tell me a little bit about We Gotta Get Out Of This Place
0:44:08 > 0:44:12cos that was an anthem, that was, you know, it changed people's lives
0:44:12 > 0:44:16and it became, it expressed something that they wanted to say.
0:44:16 > 0:44:19It was the soldiers' anthem in Vietnam,
0:44:19 > 0:44:22in the Middle East.
0:44:22 > 0:44:26In every war there's been,
0:44:26 > 0:44:28that song goes to number one
0:44:28 > 0:44:33with the soldiers and airmen and sailors and all of that.
0:44:35 > 0:44:37But do they get the message?
0:44:37 > 0:44:43The message is we've got to get out of THAT place to another place.
0:44:43 > 0:44:47Is that where you were coming from in your work with War,
0:44:47 > 0:44:49was that very much part of that?
0:44:49 > 0:44:53Well, yeah, we caught... We...
0:44:53 > 0:44:56The Vietnam War went on so long
0:44:56 > 0:45:00that we thought we would call the band War
0:45:00 > 0:45:05to soften people's attitudes towards the war.
0:45:05 > 0:45:11It didn't. It was a bad experiment, it backfired on us,
0:45:11 > 0:45:15but that was the intention. And of course I went to America
0:45:15 > 0:45:18because I wanted to be involved with black music
0:45:18 > 0:45:22and there I was, there was my chance to be on the road with a black band
0:45:22 > 0:45:26and learn something, and you know what I learned?
0:45:26 > 0:45:31I learned I can't sing for diddly diddly do alongside of those guys.
0:45:31 > 0:45:33I've got a long way to go.
0:45:33 > 0:45:37Jehnny, do people ever misread what you guys are about,
0:45:37 > 0:45:39what your band are about? And the message?
0:45:39 > 0:45:41In what terms? In what way?
0:45:41 > 0:45:44Well, in that kind of way, like they perhaps project something
0:45:44 > 0:45:49onto you that is not a message that you're trying to convey?
0:45:49 > 0:45:51The easy thing that they project on us because
0:45:51 > 0:45:54we are a band of women is that we are a feminist band.
0:45:54 > 0:46:00I think, you know, easily, I think it's a label that is a bit hard
0:46:00 > 0:46:03to shake out or even comprehend when we started making music.
0:46:03 > 0:46:05And that is kind of politics.
0:46:05 > 0:46:08Feminism is politics, it's about human rights,
0:46:08 > 0:46:12equality and everything, so that's a subject I wasn't really,
0:46:12 > 0:46:15to be honest, I wasn't really concerned about feminism
0:46:15 > 0:46:19but once we started to get an audience and everything
0:46:19 > 0:46:22and journalists kept asking me, "So you're a feminist band?
0:46:22 > 0:46:25"So you're a feminist?" And I was like, "What?" You know?
0:46:25 > 0:46:29And then I realised that bands and artists I was listening to
0:46:29 > 0:46:32were part of what you would call the feminist movement,
0:46:32 > 0:46:36some more than others, and then I started to dig into it
0:46:36 > 0:46:39and get more interested in that history and that culture
0:46:39 > 0:46:43but I think, you know, there's this thing about
0:46:43 > 0:46:45history catching back with you as well,
0:46:45 > 0:46:48like you're doing something you don't really know it's a call.
0:46:48 > 0:46:50It's a call and you're doing it but then
0:46:50 > 0:46:53you realise you're doing something that socially has
0:46:53 > 0:46:57a certain meaning and you have to get an answer to that.
0:46:57 > 0:46:59I think you start hitting some walls as well.
0:46:59 > 0:47:02You start coming up against some sexism
0:47:02 > 0:47:06and you have to decide about feminism pretty quickly.
0:47:06 > 0:47:08- The music industry is a sexist place.- Yes.
0:47:08 > 0:47:11I think the conversation about gender, I feel like it's opening up,
0:47:11 > 0:47:14like, a lot at the moment and I quite like that conversation.
0:47:14 > 0:47:19It is on this show cos there's me and you talking about it, which is excellent. Thank you very much.
0:47:19 > 0:47:21Time for some more music.
0:47:21 > 0:47:25Perhaps the one element of musical culture that can truly lay claim
0:47:25 > 0:47:28to have inherited the mantle of rock 'n' roll is hip-hop.
0:47:28 > 0:47:32Like rock 'n' roll, its roots are black and American
0:47:32 > 0:47:35and for the past four decades it has annoyed parents
0:47:35 > 0:47:37and delighted young people in equal measure.
0:47:37 > 0:47:41The British band at the vanguard of a modern pop and hip-hop sound
0:47:41 > 0:47:44are the Mercury-winning Young Fathers.
0:47:44 > 0:47:47We caught up with them in an east London warehouse
0:47:47 > 0:47:49for a performance of an intriguing song
0:47:49 > 0:47:52related to why we are here today, Old Rock N Roll.
0:47:52 > 0:47:57Be advised this track features the strongest of language from the very outset.
0:48:01 > 0:48:04Oh, for fuck's sake.
0:48:04 > 0:48:06MUSIC STARTS
0:48:12 > 0:48:15# We living life like a bubble wrapped ape
0:48:18 > 0:48:21# She came to mind when I treble that bass
0:48:24 > 0:48:28# I'm tired of playing the good black
0:48:28 > 0:48:30# I said I'm tired of playing the good black
0:48:30 > 0:48:31# I'm tired of having to hold back
0:48:31 > 0:48:34# I'm tired of wearing this hallmark for some evils happened a way back
0:48:37 > 0:48:39# I'm tired of blaming the white man
0:48:39 > 0:48:41# His indiscretions don't betray him
0:48:41 > 0:48:43# A black man can play him
0:48:45 > 0:48:48# Some white men are black men too
0:48:48 > 0:48:50# Niggah to them
0:48:50 > 0:48:54# A gentleman to you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you
0:48:54 > 0:48:57# Some white men are black men too
0:48:57 > 0:49:00# Some white men are black men too
0:49:00 > 0:49:03# Some white men are black men too
0:49:04 > 0:49:07# Niggah! Oh-way oh-way
0:49:07 > 0:49:10# Niggah! Oh-way oh-way
0:49:10 > 0:49:13# Niggah! Oh-way oh-way
0:49:13 > 0:49:15# Oh-way oh-way Awake, awake, awake... #
0:49:15 > 0:49:17'It's a song basically working'
0:49:17 > 0:49:21backwards through the kind of viewpoint that it has today,
0:49:21 > 0:49:24rock 'n' roll, in kind of stereotypes
0:49:24 > 0:49:26and racial prejudices that have come with it.
0:49:26 > 0:49:28# God forsaking no good do-gooder
0:49:30 > 0:49:32# It's all out Out in the open... #
0:49:32 > 0:49:34'It's the associations with colour'
0:49:34 > 0:49:37and personal experiences, you know,
0:49:37 > 0:49:40"Tired of playing the good black, tired of having to hold back,
0:49:40 > 0:49:44"tired of wearing this hallmark for some evils that happened way back,"
0:49:44 > 0:49:46you know, what I'm saying is
0:49:46 > 0:49:50tired of having the feeling that the world is on my shoulders
0:49:50 > 0:49:53as a black person, as a black man, and
0:49:53 > 0:49:56'me having to accommodate a role.'
0:49:57 > 0:50:00# Niggah! Oh-way oh-way
0:50:00 > 0:50:03# Niggah! Oh-way oh-way oh-way... #
0:50:03 > 0:50:06'By the time the song ends, it ends up back in Congo Square
0:50:06 > 0:50:10'where... It was the first place in New Orleans where'
0:50:10 > 0:50:13- they allowed the slaves to play music.- It was every Sunday.
0:50:13 > 0:50:14So that's like, yeah...
0:50:14 > 0:50:18Probably where rock 'n' roll came from in the first place.
0:50:21 > 0:50:23# Old rock n roll
0:50:23 > 0:50:26# Not what you've been sold
0:50:26 > 0:50:30# Congo Square is open for business
0:50:30 > 0:50:32# I was there as God is my witness
0:50:32 > 0:50:35# There you fucking go
0:50:35 > 0:50:38# So there you fucking go
0:50:39 > 0:50:42# Go go go go go
0:50:42 > 0:50:45# Go go go go go
0:50:45 > 0:50:47# Oh oh oh oh oh
0:50:47 > 0:50:51# Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh
0:50:51 > 0:50:53- # Ooh - Ah
0:50:55 > 0:50:57- # Ooh - Ah
0:50:57 > 0:51:00- # Ooh - Ah
0:51:00 > 0:51:02# Ooh... #
0:51:02 > 0:51:04'People that run places of power,
0:51:04 > 0:51:07'they're not using that rock 'n' roll attitude any more.'
0:51:07 > 0:51:10It's a business model. It's a lucrative market.
0:51:10 > 0:51:13'Rock 'n' roll is antiestablishment
0:51:13 > 0:51:16'but now the establishment is using rock 'n' roll now and again'
0:51:16 > 0:51:18to market it and that's...
0:51:18 > 0:51:21- Using it for something else. - Using it for something else.
0:51:21 > 0:51:25- They cleaned it up.- To seem like rebellion but it's not really rebellion.- It's controlled.
0:51:25 > 0:51:29It's very controlled rebellion. I suppose the people in power...
0:51:29 > 0:51:32It's a very kind of smart brainwashing move,
0:51:32 > 0:51:34if you know what I mean, but...
0:51:34 > 0:51:36A sense of freedom when there's none.
0:51:36 > 0:51:38A sense of freedom when there isn't.
0:51:48 > 0:51:51Old Rock N Roll, an oblique take on the history
0:51:51 > 0:51:54of slavery, racial stereotypes and the black origins of rock 'n' roll,
0:51:54 > 0:51:56there, from the amazing Young Fathers.
0:51:56 > 0:52:00Now, for me, Young Fathers show one way to be rock 'n' roll now.
0:52:00 > 0:52:03They push the boundaries both musically and aesthetically.
0:52:03 > 0:52:05John, what did you make of them?
0:52:05 > 0:52:08I didn't hear all their lyrics, to be honest
0:52:08 > 0:52:10but I'm always interested in outfits like that,
0:52:10 > 0:52:12you know, that blur the edges
0:52:12 > 0:52:16and that was a rocking kind of noise and it was incensed
0:52:16 > 0:52:19and, like you said when you introduced it,
0:52:19 > 0:52:21they mean it, man,
0:52:21 > 0:52:23but I'll have to come back to you on the lyrics.
0:52:23 > 0:52:26I didn't get lyric one but that ain't a bad sign.
0:52:26 > 0:52:28That's a good sign.
0:52:28 > 0:52:30I get angry on stage.
0:52:30 > 0:52:33I get that angry for five minutes.
0:52:34 > 0:52:36Express myself,
0:52:36 > 0:52:40then I back down because I realise I can't stay there
0:52:40 > 0:52:44and I realise that I don't belong there
0:52:44 > 0:52:48and I would stretch it and say...
0:52:48 > 0:52:50That's not rock 'n' roll.
0:52:50 > 0:52:53It's something else altogether.
0:52:53 > 0:52:58It's morphed into another creature
0:52:58 > 0:53:03because, to me, rock 'n' roll has to have a...
0:53:03 > 0:53:08It's synthetic discordant dance music
0:53:08 > 0:53:11with lyrics that you can relate to
0:53:11 > 0:53:15and I can't relate to that.
0:53:15 > 0:53:18I'm sorry. That's the truth.
0:53:18 > 0:53:20That's funny, because, when you gave that list,
0:53:20 > 0:53:24I'm like... Because I know their record, I'm like, "Yes, yes, yes."
0:53:24 > 0:53:28You know, they do all of those things for me.
0:53:28 > 0:53:30It's a point of view thing.
0:53:31 > 0:53:34I don't know. I just...
0:53:34 > 0:53:36It's not Chuck Berry.
0:53:36 > 0:53:37It's not Jerry Lee Lewis.
0:53:37 > 0:53:39It's not Ray Charles.
0:53:39 > 0:53:41It's not Bo Diddley.
0:53:41 > 0:53:43But it's not trying to be any of those things.
0:53:43 > 0:53:44That's the point, isn't it?
0:53:44 > 0:53:48You know, those guys aren't trying to be Jerry Lee Lewis or Sam Cooke,
0:53:48 > 0:53:50they're doing something new.
0:53:50 > 0:53:52They're doing something different and that's the point.
0:53:52 > 0:53:53It was the same with the punks.
0:53:53 > 0:53:55I didn't like punk music
0:53:55 > 0:53:57but I agreed with what they were saying.
0:53:57 > 0:54:01Somebody had to kick the door in and they did.
0:54:01 > 0:54:04I think what Eric's saying, correct me if I'm incorrect, Eric,
0:54:04 > 0:54:09I think you're saying what this stuff lacks is the light touch.
0:54:09 > 0:54:12- Yeah.- You know, the light touch.
0:54:12 > 0:54:14You know, to be honest,
0:54:14 > 0:54:17there's nothing more hilarious
0:54:17 > 0:54:19than unrelenting tragedy.
0:54:19 > 0:54:21AUDIENCE LAUGHS
0:54:21 > 0:54:24Jehnny, I'm going to bring you in here.
0:54:24 > 0:54:27Jehnny, I'm going to bring you in and ask,
0:54:27 > 0:54:31what is it that you want people to feel when they hear your music?
0:54:31 > 0:54:32It depends.
0:54:33 > 0:54:35When we started Savages,
0:54:35 > 0:54:39personally, I was quite angry about a lot of things
0:54:39 > 0:54:41and I'm still angry about a lot of things
0:54:41 > 0:54:43but I was very defensive
0:54:43 > 0:54:45and I was like a boxer going into the ring
0:54:45 > 0:54:49and I enjoyed that very much and I still enjoy it
0:54:49 > 0:54:52and I think you can, you know, have your energy,
0:54:52 > 0:54:56you know, kind of expressing yourself that way
0:54:56 > 0:54:58and stage is for that, as well.
0:54:58 > 0:55:02Like, getting all your darkness, you know, and your...
0:55:02 > 0:55:07- But it doesn't mean you're not a happy person.- But, in doing so,
0:55:07 > 0:55:11you don't want to add to the sum total of human misery.
0:55:11 > 0:55:13Yeah, I...
0:55:13 > 0:55:14You know, after all,
0:55:14 > 0:55:18you are asking people to buy a ticket.
0:55:18 > 0:55:19JEHNNY LAUGHS
0:55:19 > 0:55:21I agree. Exactly.
0:55:21 > 0:55:24And I think, also, what kind of person are you?
0:55:24 > 0:55:28Hopefully, you're doing this to become someone, you know...
0:55:28 > 0:55:30Not a pain in the arse, you know?
0:55:30 > 0:55:36You're doing this to become someone that is...
0:55:36 > 0:55:38you know, funny, or, I don't know, interesting,
0:55:38 > 0:55:41has travelled all around the world and has seen things
0:55:41 > 0:55:43and you're becoming someone maybe a bit better
0:55:43 > 0:55:46than you were when you started, so that should show.
0:55:46 > 0:55:48I think that maybe that's what I understand
0:55:48 > 0:55:50from what these guys are saying,
0:55:50 > 0:55:52although I should have brought my sunglasses maybe.
0:55:52 > 0:55:55It served its purpose.
0:55:55 > 0:55:57It woke us up.
0:55:57 > 0:55:59- Exactly.- It's got us heated up. - That's it.
0:55:59 > 0:56:01When I met Ian MacKaye for the first time,
0:56:01 > 0:56:05so who was in Fugazi, I don't know if you're familiar with Fugazi
0:56:05 > 0:56:06or if you would call it rock 'n' roll,
0:56:06 > 0:56:08I would definitely say it's rock 'n' roll,
0:56:08 > 0:56:12and he told me, when I said to him as a fan, I said,
0:56:12 > 0:56:16"You changed my life," and, when I said to him that, he said,
0:56:16 > 0:56:21"Well, I started making music because... For the same reason.
0:56:21 > 0:56:24"I was touched by the same thing, so for me to pass it along
0:56:24 > 0:56:28"is exactly what it should be doing."
0:56:28 > 0:56:31Live for ever, that should be the message.
0:56:31 > 0:56:33Live for ever.
0:56:33 > 0:56:36That's the perfect place to leave it. Thank you so much, guys.
0:56:36 > 0:56:38Thank you. Well, I think we've proved that,
0:56:38 > 0:56:42in this marvellous hour, rock 'n' roll's still very much alive
0:56:42 > 0:56:44and what a fantastic hour it's been.
0:56:44 > 0:56:47Thank you so much to my brilliant, brilliant guests.
0:56:47 > 0:56:50Eric, John, Jehnny, thank you very, very much.
0:56:50 > 0:56:54Thank you to our audience here at The 100 Club. Cheers, everyone.
0:56:59 > 0:57:00Thank you.
0:57:04 > 0:57:07Well, it seems that, as long as rock 'n' roll has the power
0:57:07 > 0:57:09to cause an argument, there's life in the old dog yet.
0:57:09 > 0:57:11I'm going to leave you with some more thoughts on its future.
0:57:11 > 0:57:13Goodnight.
0:57:24 > 0:57:27Whatever kind of social or political function,
0:57:27 > 0:57:29like, rock 'n' roll achieved
0:57:29 > 0:57:34is probably being made right now in a different country
0:57:34 > 0:57:37in a different genre of music that you have no idea about.
0:57:40 > 0:57:42I think that's kind of what we're waiting for,
0:57:42 > 0:57:46is another generation of people to reflect it in a different way.
0:57:50 > 0:57:54All it takes is one band with one great song.
0:57:54 > 0:57:55That's it.
0:57:58 > 0:58:01Someone's always doing it. Someone's always keeping that tradition alive.
0:58:01 > 0:58:04Rock 'n' roll is one of those traditions that'll never die.