:00:11. > :00:16.Elgar. We moved to the sounds of Stravinsky and Ravel, and not one,
:00:17. > :00:20.but two, three conductors join me in the studio. Get ready, it is time
:00:21. > :00:51.for Proms Extra. Hello and welcome to Proms Extra,
:00:52. > :00:57.which reflects on the highlights of the past seven days. Tonight, we
:00:58. > :01:07.have show stoppers, we have Stravinsky's Petrushka, Ravel's all
:01:08. > :01:13.Aero, Elgar's Cello Concerto. -- Bolero. In the week that saw Kate
:01:14. > :01:14.Bush returning after 35 years, there has been no time for a breather
:01:15. > :02:47.here. Look out what was going on inside
:02:48. > :02:51.the Royal Albert Hall last week. In the Royal College of music here, I
:02:52. > :02:56.have three conduct is joining me. First, she made her debut this
:02:57. > :03:06.season conducting the BBC concert Orchestra for a range of sports
:03:07. > :03:10.themes including Match of the Day. It is Rebecca Miller. The next
:03:11. > :03:14.guests discovered a love of music at the age of seven when he watched it
:03:15. > :03:19.last hand through his hometown in Denmark. 20 years later, he was a
:03:20. > :03:24.maestro and he is the principal conductor now of the National
:03:25. > :03:34.Orchestra of Wales. -- a brass band. And our final guest began
:03:35. > :03:38.conducting in Ukraine at 13. He won the Royal conductor of the year
:03:39. > :03:43.prize last year for his work on the Symphony Orchestra and it is his
:03:44. > :03:53.fifth season with them. Dorset has never been the same! It is Kirill
:03:54. > :03:57.Karabits. And to players out is rising superstar Leonard who
:03:58. > :04:03.performed with the BBC film Monica orchestra. Welcome to my sofa, three
:04:04. > :04:11.maestros. I do not know the collective noun! -- for Monica
:04:12. > :04:18.orchestra. It is a very unusual format, I have not been on the same
:04:19. > :04:25.sofa with two other colleagues. How often do you meet up with other
:04:26. > :04:33.conductors? Very rarely. When I do opera, I sometimes meet colleagues.
:04:34. > :04:40.And that is it? This is a wonderful experience. Rebecca, the sport Proms
:04:41. > :04:44.was fantastic, great fun, new people in the audience who had not been to
:04:45. > :04:51.a ROM before and you got a Mexican wave. That was memorable! -- had
:04:52. > :04:55.never been to a Proms before. The orchestra were also playing and
:04:56. > :04:58.standing and waving. It was an amazing atmosphere, the Proms is an
:04:59. > :05:06.amazing atmosphere, it feels intimate. Even though it is a
:05:07. > :05:14.massive hole. Such anticipation and excitement -- a massive hole. You
:05:15. > :05:22.conducted two this year, you are becoming a regular. We loved it
:05:23. > :05:26.again this year. We were there for two days, the 11th and the 12th of
:05:27. > :05:32.August. Doing mainly the two Scandinavian uses. That was an
:05:33. > :05:36.amazing atmosphere -- Scandinavian pieces. I do not know if you have
:05:37. > :05:44.been called a veteran, Kirill Karabits, at your debut came in
:05:45. > :05:49.2009. Yes, I cannot say a lot about that evening because I was so
:05:50. > :05:54.nervous. But one thing I do remember is the heat and when you go on
:05:55. > :06:00.stage, the physical feeling of people and the heat from the hall.
:06:01. > :06:03.But then the second time, it was easier. And the third time it was
:06:04. > :06:11.even easier. I could completely relax. And enjoy yourself? Yes,
:06:12. > :06:17.because there was such a enjoyment. I was really scared the first time,
:06:18. > :06:20.no wonder! There is a lot of mystery about being gay conductor and
:06:21. > :06:25.because we have three of you, we had to get questions from members of the
:06:26. > :06:29.audience -- a conductor. Stand-by those later. When it comes to
:06:30. > :06:34.challenging opinions and working on audience, to a lot of people, Daniel
:06:35. > :06:39.Barenboim is the maestro. He together with the Palace -- with a
:06:40. > :06:46.Palestinian or Christer brought together West-Eastern Divan
:06:47. > :06:51.Orchestra -- orchestra. Containing people from the Israeli-Palestinian
:06:52. > :06:56.divide performing together. Here they are performing all Aero. --
:06:57. > :08:06.Bolero. Conducted by Daniel Barenboim, that
:08:07. > :08:09.was Bolero by Ravel performed by West-Eastern Divan Orchestra, is
:08:10. > :08:15.that an approach you would take? Letting the orchestra get on with
:08:16. > :08:22.it. Probably. This piece does not need a conductor who beat. Mainly
:08:23. > :08:30.only at the end. Most of the conducting is encouragement. They
:08:31. > :08:34.are really exposed. Musicians are nervous so you have to do something,
:08:35. > :08:39.which makes it easier for them. That is the best you can do. They can all
:08:40. > :08:48.hear and they play in tempo. These little things, you can encourage.
:08:49. > :08:53.You cannot rehearse that either, you can encourage this. A lot of people
:08:54. > :08:58.would say this now drum is the conductor setting the beat. -- the
:08:59. > :09:05.snare drum. You are a percussionist, do you have a relationship with the
:09:06. > :09:13.percussionist? I can tell you that the first real nerves I had was
:09:14. > :09:18.playing this little bit of the opening for the European Union youth
:09:19. > :09:25.Orchestra in 1989. That was the most nerve wracking you can imagine. So
:09:26. > :09:32.you did the drum? To play so soft at the beginning is very hard. It is
:09:33. > :09:38.very clever he put the drum so close in the middle of the orchestra, it
:09:39. > :09:45.makes it much easier. How would you approach this because it is an
:09:46. > :09:51.extraordinary work? It is so simple but it is the pacing from beginning
:09:52. > :09:54.to end which is so difficult. And all these different solo
:09:55. > :09:59.performances. It is a 15 minute crescendo which is very difficult to
:10:00. > :10:08.pace. And everything can make a big difference because so little is
:10:09. > :10:14.going on. One little thing turns into something enormous. I think
:10:15. > :10:20.that approach... In a sense, he makes the crescendo. But if you
:10:21. > :10:27.watch carefully, he is very involved. His eyebrows going just at
:10:28. > :10:30.the right moment. -- are going. As a conductor, you have to save things
:10:31. > :10:35.for one particular moment because if you do too much all the time, that
:10:36. > :10:44.moment could get obscure. He just moves his head at that one moment.
:10:45. > :10:53.It gives them confidence. The spot we heard is one of my favourites.
:10:54. > :10:59.You hear the themes so many times but he is playing in E major and
:11:00. > :11:11.grams major which is a solo voice on the organ -- and grams major. --
:11:12. > :11:19.grams. That is a wonderful note. The fluids are just... It makes you sit
:11:20. > :11:23.up? -- the flute is just... We have been talking about the showmanship
:11:24. > :11:55.of Daniel Barenboim, this is another example.
:11:56. > :12:03.Daniel Barenboim observing his orchestra from a different position
:12:04. > :12:06.inside the Royal Albert Hall. Do you think showmanship as part of the
:12:07. > :12:12.role of the conductor? We have all experienced a revolution of the idea
:12:13. > :12:16.of a conductor in recent years. People still have an idea that the
:12:17. > :12:24.conductor controls but more and more, I personally and I think all
:12:25. > :12:29.of us, realise that the most magical things that can happen in a concert
:12:30. > :12:35.is orchestra, conductor and/or -- and audience. The conductor is one
:12:36. > :12:41.element of the triangle. It is not the centre. You can turn and the
:12:42. > :12:46.orchestra becomes the centre. So it is just one element. And I very much
:12:47. > :12:52.like the expression that conducting is about listening. So sometimes,
:12:53. > :12:58.you can make things happen by not doing anything. Because if you do
:12:59. > :13:04.something, you can just disturb. We know it. You just do not need to do
:13:05. > :13:09.anything because things are there already. Your role is to step act
:13:10. > :13:21.and not do anything, just observe. -- step back.
:13:22. > :13:27.wonderful hall so that's a wonderful idea. You can still see the concert
:13:28. > :13:28.conducted by Daniel Barenboim on the BBC iPlayer, so do have a look at
:13:29. > :13:31.that. I have a few BBC iPlayer, so do have a look at
:13:32. > :13:37.that. I questions now for you from the audience, I hope you are ready
:13:38. > :13:41.for that they come every year to watch you guys, so let's have a
:13:42. > :13:48.listen to what they want to know. OK, ready? Here we go. This is a big
:13:49. > :13:59.question. What do the hand gestures mean? I would ask, how you are able
:14:00. > :14:06.to hear and direct everybody? What makes a conductor's baton so much
:14:07. > :14:09.better than just using a pencil? And you're going to talk about that
:14:10. > :14:15.later sell at me just ask you, that question about hearing and directing
:14:16. > :14:19.at the same time, how do you do that? It's interesting because you
:14:20. > :14:23.have to be in three time zones at once. You have to be preparing for
:14:24. > :14:27.what's coming next, also have to be in the present to be listening and
:14:28. > :14:33.enabling what's going on and you also have to learn from what just
:14:34. > :14:37.happened. If this mistake, if you've made a mistake, brush it off and
:14:38. > :14:43.move forward, so you have to be in three places at once and also
:14:44. > :14:46.stepping back and listening, and balancing being involved and letting
:14:47. > :14:51.things happen organically as well. Is that something which comes with
:14:52. > :14:56.practice? When I think about it, many times, while conducting, I
:14:57. > :15:01.actually realise I'm not listening. I get so excited. I continue
:15:02. > :15:10.conducting my own music instead of listening. You always have two but
:15:11. > :15:18.pay barrier. -- you have to put a barrier. I tried conducting once,
:15:19. > :15:25.and now, to my endless shame, you're going to see my first attempt.
:15:26. > :15:37.Come on. Like a saga tours tea dance. She's milking the emotion.
:15:38. > :16:12.Imagine cows udder is, milking! Someone teach beware the accelerator
:16:13. > :16:18.pedal is next time. You're making it worse, don't. It was such an
:16:19. > :16:21.interesting exercise to stand in front of an orchestra and realise
:16:22. > :16:25.you had to really do something you've never done before and they
:16:26. > :16:28.weren't going to respond to words or bad singing full subcutaneous have
:16:29. > :16:32.to do it with gesture. There was a lot to learn, right? Can you
:16:33. > :16:41.remember the first time you stood in front of an orchestra? Yes, I can. I
:16:42. > :16:46.mostly followed, I think. Lots of things I just couldn't achieve. And
:16:47. > :16:51.musicians wouldn't take me seriously, of course, which is
:16:52. > :16:58.another interesting aspect, how do you actually get the respect? A lot
:16:59. > :17:02.comes from the respect and not just following what you do with your
:17:03. > :17:11.hands. Can you remember the first time you conducted, how you felt? I
:17:12. > :17:13.was quite old. I had a wonderful experience with the European
:17:14. > :17:22.Community youth Orchestra and that was really what inspired me to work
:17:23. > :17:24.with some great people. And that's one I decided I wanted to try and
:17:25. > :17:29.get deeper into the schools, and that was the reason. Did you stand
:17:30. > :17:39.in front of a mirror and learn hand gestures? No, I don't do that. I
:17:40. > :17:46.came across the opera in Copenhagen after them for advice. A Russian
:17:47. > :17:51.conductor irony adored. He showed me a few things. You have to be in
:17:52. > :17:55.front of the mirror, next to him and he showed me a few gestures which
:17:56. > :18:00.would be good, just to open up the sound image. That's interesting,
:18:01. > :18:07.sound image also how can you describe that? Again, one of the
:18:08. > :18:12.questions was, why do we need baton? Why do you use a pencil? It's
:18:13. > :18:17.interesting to have something in your hands, as if you lift and
:18:18. > :18:21.energy. Not necessarily thinking about what your fingers can do. The
:18:22. > :18:27.idea of conducting is interesting, of course, because he also removes
:18:28. > :18:31.his hand in the small electrical gestures as well. But sometimes,
:18:32. > :18:38.when I conducted without a baton, I think of it as energies or gestures
:18:39. > :18:44.like sculptures within the hands, sometimes. As if you move the sound
:18:45. > :18:49.and energy. You are talking about use your hand or your baton. A prom
:18:50. > :18:51.was conducted earlier this season using what I'm pretty sure was a
:18:52. > :19:31.cocktail stick. Let's have a look. So he was conducting with a tiny
:19:32. > :19:38.baton but in the studio we have this enormous baton which we are honoured
:19:39. > :19:44.to have. It is led from the Royal Academy of music, where Sir Henry
:19:45. > :19:50.went. The last baton used before he died. I'm not touching it because
:19:51. > :19:57.it's very precious. What is the difference? You have your favourite
:19:58. > :20:03.batons here? What is the difference between that and the more standard
:20:04. > :20:08.ten inch or so? It's quite an old one. I have been using it for at
:20:09. > :20:16.least two years now. It has markings. What were you doing with
:20:17. > :20:21.it? Beating the timpanist? Whatever makes you comfortable and you feel
:20:22. > :20:25.like your hand is becoming longer, that is what is important. As a
:20:26. > :20:31.student, we had an exercise of drawing with a baton, so the sound
:20:32. > :20:35.actually we could feel it at the end of the baton rather than in your
:20:36. > :20:43.fingers. It is all about making your hand longer, which makes better
:20:44. > :20:49.communication with musicians. Do you get sentimental about it? I found
:20:50. > :20:54.mine on the Orkney Islands. I walked through the streets left and there
:20:55. > :20:59.was a music shop and I thought it looks OK. It used the same night for
:21:00. > :21:11.the concert and I have had it since. I like the fact it is a little
:21:12. > :21:14.thicker. For me, it's just easier to see. I've also used a smaller but I
:21:15. > :21:21.go back and forwards. All sorts of different ones. I don't like them
:21:22. > :21:28.being that big, though. Do you think that was just what was fashionable
:21:29. > :21:33.at the time? It, we was, yes. Mine is made of one piece of wood and I
:21:34. > :21:38.like it because it is very, very light and it is continuous. I don't
:21:39. > :21:46.like a big break here. It should be a continuation of your arm, so it is
:21:47. > :21:51.whatever... The weight of it, some of them have heavier handles, I
:21:52. > :21:54.don't like it, being very heavy in my hand because it takes away from
:21:55. > :22:00.the subtleties you can make with a baton. It's like which pencil do you
:22:01. > :22:07.use when you write? Long ones, it doesn't matter. It was interesting,
:22:08. > :22:13.wasn't it, watching him with that tiny cocktail stick and yet, as you
:22:14. > :22:17.say, it makes little difference to the orchestra sound because they are
:22:18. > :22:21.watching his eyes and hands. In this case, they were watching his
:22:22. > :22:26.cocktail stick. Is it because they want to watch because it's such a
:22:27. > :22:32.tiny stick? It is for his feeling in his hands. I guess it just feels
:22:33. > :22:39.good. If you conduct without baton, you have to do work out what you
:22:40. > :22:43.were going to with your fingers. It can look awkward and tense. Perhaps
:22:44. > :22:50.it is to give a focus to your hand and give shape to it. He feels that
:22:51. > :22:53.the shape he wants. Left to drop the batons for now for the one of the
:22:54. > :22:56.main talking points this season have been the international orchestras
:22:57. > :23:01.and last week the Seoul Philharmonic Orchestra made their debut.
:23:02. > :23:09.Accompanying them was a gentleman who was the worlds leading soloist
:23:10. > :23:14.it comes to playing. This instrument is a Chinese mouth organ. It doesn't
:23:15. > :23:18.do it justice. Always keen to learn, we found out that in a classical
:23:19. > :23:24.music world, a little bit of hot water can go a long way. I don't
:23:25. > :23:30.like this East meets West concept but a kind of mixture of different
:23:31. > :23:43.kinds of instruments, it doesn't matter from where it comes from.
:23:44. > :23:51.This is a very old Chinese instrument. In the old time, we can
:23:52. > :24:23.play more than ten notes together. you can play all the traditional
:24:24. > :24:29.keys. We were playing in the Philharmonic and the Queen of
:24:30. > :24:39.England came to China and we would play the music. I open my
:24:40. > :24:47.instrument. You can see the bamboos. You can play almost 36 notes at the
:24:48. > :24:53.same time, so you can make any kind of notes combination. It is
:24:54. > :25:13.extremely interesting for a composer.
:25:14. > :25:17.notes and three notes and the harmonic structure is becoming more
:25:18. > :25:32.and more complex. I wanted to play with this simplicity and complexity.
:25:33. > :25:41.What is very impressive is the range. I have to constantly ask the
:25:42. > :25:45.orchestra to play louder too much this relatively small instrument and
:25:46. > :25:51.so it is very exciting. The reads before I played, we need to make
:25:52. > :25:54.them warm, so I have two put in hot water. If they are cold, I cannot
:25:55. > :26:17.really play at. -- it. The most important thing is the
:26:18. > :26:21.sound. I would describe this sound as a kind of silky bamboo sound. I
:26:22. > :26:37.love it. I am greatly looking forward to
:26:38. > :26:42.having this concert tonight. It is always very special, this occasion,
:26:43. > :26:51.to have a concert in the Royal Albert Hall with a six or 7000
:26:52. > :26:55.audience. Fascinating to see that instrument being taken apart and the
:26:56. > :26:58.hot water. If you're dealing with an unfamiliar instrument like that, how
:26:59. > :27:05.do you cope as a conductor? If you're not familiar with it? How do
:27:06. > :27:08.you learn? Like any soloist, there's a certain amount of getting to know
:27:09. > :27:17.your period, very short period, sometimes longer. I have worked with
:27:18. > :27:21.a Chinese orchestra before and I met him who was playing the solo, and I
:27:22. > :27:28.had no idea what the volume it was. But then, it was like a Chinese
:27:29. > :27:37.lute, basically. But they are very quiet, like guitars. This was quite
:27:38. > :27:41.loud. Really, very, very powerful, as an instrument. So, actually, when
:27:42. > :27:44.you are studying the score, and trying to get to know the
:27:45. > :27:49.instrument, you wonder about balance and it was mentioned in that video
:27:50. > :27:55.that he had to ask the orchestra to play louder because the instrument
:27:56. > :28:02.had a lot to say. Still to come on Mac programme, more music but next
:28:03. > :28:06.we're going to turn to Elgar and now we're going to hear an exit now with
:28:07. > :28:10.the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra making their debut. Conducted by
:28:11. > :29:23.veteran Andrew Davies. Melbourne Symphony Orchestra. What
:29:24. > :29:27.is he like as a performer? He has a very strong personality. So as a
:29:28. > :29:30.conductor, you have to understand first of all what he wants and then
:29:31. > :29:37.help him to achieve that with the orchestra. He is very particular
:29:38. > :29:41.because he is very clear about some of the ideas he expects the
:29:42. > :29:46.orchestra to do and as a conductor, you have to make this happen. Let's
:29:47. > :29:50.talk about Elgar, you have a very well-known piece like this and
:29:51. > :29:55.presumably the conductor and the soloist and the audience have a
:29:56. > :30:01.clear idea of how this should sound, how does that work? This is why we
:30:02. > :30:04.need to stand outside. Continuously, together, we need to
:30:05. > :30:13.find new ways of doing the same pieces. When I started conducting, I
:30:14. > :30:20.thought, yet another Beethoven symphony, done it so many times.
:30:21. > :30:24.That is the hard thing, to keep serving it as if we love it as dear
:30:25. > :30:32.as we did the first time we heard it. It is also interesting when you
:30:33. > :30:35.repeat the peace. The Elgar Cello Concerto, every time I have done it
:30:36. > :30:42.and I have done it a number of times, every time, I went to another
:30:43. > :30:50.level. A level of what I did not want to hear. And almost becoming a
:30:51. > :30:55.bit British! That peace has something and the more you know it,
:30:56. > :31:01.the more you expect certain things -- that musical piece. And now I
:31:02. > :31:09.think I pretty much no how I like it. I pretty much -- I pretty much
:31:10. > :31:15.do know. Let's see what the conductors make of Chord of the Week
:31:16. > :31:25.where David Alan Norris leaders to new horizons. -- David Owen Norris.
:31:26. > :31:31.Do you recognise it? It comes out of an extraordinary melody that set
:31:32. > :31:38.Edward Elgar hallucinated, ground from an anaesthetic. -- when he was
:31:39. > :31:46.coming round from. It is despair that falls down six notes and Elgar
:31:47. > :31:54.plays the same shape again. And again, a third time, six notes. The
:31:55. > :32:01.Cello Concerto. And as we reach home, Elgar obsessively starts it
:32:02. > :32:15.all over again. What court can he use to which that aching emptiness?
:32:16. > :32:24.-- what chord can he use to bridge. Six notes so the melody has created
:32:25. > :32:30.its own accord -- chord. That is why the first time you hear it, it is
:32:31. > :32:38.not accompanied, it has no chords. Until we have heard the melody,
:32:39. > :33:04.there is no chord. The horizontal becomes the vertical.
:33:05. > :33:11.And you can catch that again next week. Fascinating about the opening.
:33:12. > :33:13.Is that something you work at constantly to get that balance
:33:14. > :33:19.between the different sections of the orchestra? Exactly, the way he
:33:20. > :33:24.said it. To get the balance also when you study. Do not spend too
:33:25. > :33:30.much time analysing because you cannot go into all of the bits. It
:33:31. > :33:34.is fascinating the way he takes out interesting things. Last Thursday,
:33:35. > :33:41.Stravinsky was the order of the day, specifically, Petrushka. We are
:33:42. > :34:24.going to have a look at the National Youth Orchestra.
:34:25. > :34:32.Petrushka, a ballet about a puppet that we just had the National Youth
:34:33. > :34:39.Orchestra. They were performing Stravinsky's Petrushka.
:34:40. > :34:44.Ground-breaking work. Yes, and from a practical point of view, it is
:34:45. > :34:53.more difficult than other musical pieces. It requires from a conduct
:34:54. > :34:57.terror solutions. -- conductor. In Petrushka, you need solutions and
:34:58. > :35:06.unique to say how you want things played. -- and you have to say. To
:35:07. > :35:13.step in on that is impossible. No! The exposed solos, it is actually
:35:14. > :35:19.more technically difficult. Very challenging for a Youth Orchestra?
:35:20. > :35:26.Yes. The transitions are far harder than any of his other compositions.
:35:27. > :35:34.There is a trumpet solo, it is fantastic. The way Stravinsky scores
:35:35. > :35:45.this. The barrel organ is fantastic. There is one type out of order that
:35:46. > :35:49.is higher. -- pie. You are just missing a monkey on the side! Than
:35:50. > :35:54.might have been a monkey! We could not see it. I know you all work with
:35:55. > :36:02.youth orchestras and there must have been a certain energy to your lives.
:36:03. > :36:06.Yes, it is a challenge because when you meet for the first rehearsal,
:36:07. > :36:11.you cannot imagine in one week you will have a performance. Some of
:36:12. > :36:16.them have never played in an orchestra so there is an element of
:36:17. > :36:19.mystery and how you create an orchestra in a short period. How do
:36:20. > :36:27.you teach them, how'd you inspire them? Are you a teacher, a friend? I
:36:28. > :36:30.remember somebody once saying working with the National Youth
:36:31. > :36:35.Orchestra of Great Britain was taking -- was like taking a dose of
:36:36. > :36:41.vitamins C and it would keep him going for the rest of the year --
:36:42. > :36:45.vitamin. These people are playing a piece for the first time and it is
:36:46. > :36:50.very exciting. Huge pressure on myself because I want them to have a
:36:51. > :37:00.good experience, I do not want them to hate it. It is amazing. I think
:37:01. > :37:06.you are a teacher. In the respect that you are there to inspire them.
:37:07. > :37:10.You are giving them a first experience to take away for the rest
:37:11. > :37:18.of their lives. That is almost it. Tomorrow night, you can see last
:37:19. > :38:22.week's guest making his Proms debut. No other words are needed.
:38:23. > :38:28.Philarmonic Orchestra tomorrow night. And as if you needed
:38:29. > :38:31.reminding, but I will remind you, you can watch the Proms every
:38:32. > :38:37.Thursday, Friday and Sunday on BBC Four. And you can find this episode
:38:38. > :38:43.and many of the works featured in the Proms Extra collection on the
:38:44. > :38:49.BBCi player. That is it, I will be back next week for the final show in
:38:50. > :38:59.this series. My thanks to my guests. Rebecca Miller, and Kirill
:39:00. > :39:01.Karabits. Accompanying the piano tonight, this is Leonard
:39:02. > :39:04.Elschenbroich. Goodbye!