0:00:00 > 0:00:00- *
0:00:01 > 0:00:04- Alright, Ned? - We're going on a journey.
0:00:05 > 0:00:07- Do you want to see chapels?
0:00:07 > 0:00:08- Do you want to see chapels?- - No.
0:00:08 > 0:00:12- Nedw, my son, has no choice - but to join us on our journey.
0:00:12 > 0:00:15- Felinheli chapels - - an educational tour.
0:00:16 > 0:00:20- Are you ready, Sion? - Can you see how excited Sion is?
0:00:23 > 0:00:25- Onward to Canaan!
0:00:26 > 0:00:29- I'm Gwion Hallam, - a television director.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32- The film crew and I - have been on a journey...
0:00:32 > 0:00:36- ..to discover if the people of Wales - still believe in God.
0:00:39 > 0:00:44- Chapels were important in Wales, - and so was Christianity to me.
0:00:44 > 0:00:46- I don't believe anymore.
0:00:47 > 0:00:50- Felinheli is no different - from any Welsh village...
0:00:50 > 0:00:53- ..except that it has better views.
0:00:53 > 0:00:55- Chapels were a part - of the landscape.
0:00:56 > 0:00:58- There were five chapels here...
0:00:58 > 0:01:01- ..according to Len Williams' - excellent book.
0:01:01 > 0:01:03- Do you want to see the chapels?
0:01:03 > 0:01:04- Do you want to see the chapels?- - Yes.
0:01:05 > 0:01:06- Yes!
0:01:06 > 0:01:11- Only one chapel is open now. - It's happening all over Wales.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15- Only one in ten of us - regularly attend chapel.
0:01:16 > 0:01:20- Chapels, once the heart - of the community, are closing.
0:01:21 > 0:01:25- Capel Elim. That's where it was.
0:01:25 > 0:01:31- There's a plaque here now. We - still want to remember the chapels.
0:01:32 > 0:01:36- The second chapel - has disappeared altogether...
0:01:36 > 0:01:38- ..not that Nedw is interested.
0:01:39 > 0:01:41- This was the second chapel.
0:01:42 > 0:01:46- The boom is more fun than - going to see blinkin' chapels.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49- This is the third chapel.
0:01:49 > 0:01:54- Salim Baptist chapel, - according to the book.
0:01:56 > 0:01:59- At least we can see a chapel.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02- The deacons' seat is now a balcony.
0:02:04 > 0:02:06- Nedw's sleeping.
0:02:06 > 0:02:09- Are you OK, Ned?
0:02:10 > 0:02:14- Sorry. We won't do a tour - of chapels for a while.
0:02:16 > 0:02:17- Ouch!
0:02:18 > 0:02:20- There's one way to wake you.
0:02:21 > 0:02:25- Many chapels have left - a gap in the landscape.
0:02:25 > 0:02:30- Have they left a social gap? - And even a moral one?
0:02:30 > 0:02:34- It's one thing to say - we've lost our religion.
0:02:34 > 0:02:39- Have we also lost - what once sustained society?
0:02:47 > 0:02:49- Subtitles
0:02:51 > 0:02:54- Are you glad to be back - in the Amman Valley?
0:02:54 > 0:02:58- Whatever Rhys - the cameraman thinks...
0:02:58 > 0:03:02- ..I'm glad to be back in the place - where I was brought up.
0:03:02 > 0:03:05- I'm going to Caersalem, - the family chapel.
0:03:06 > 0:03:11- Chapels were the glue - that held communities together.
0:03:12 > 0:03:18- Are you saying there's a link - between morality and religion?
0:03:18 > 0:03:21- I don't know. - Yes, to a certain degree.
0:03:22 > 0:03:27- I often ask myself, am - I less moral since I lost my faith?
0:03:28 > 0:03:31- Am I more selfish? - Am I less thoughtful?
0:03:31 > 0:03:33- Are you?
0:03:33 > 0:03:35- Are you?- - I don't know.
0:03:38 > 0:03:40- I haven't been here in years.
0:03:40 > 0:03:43- It hasn't changed at all. - Why would it?
0:03:43 > 0:03:45- The organ is new.
0:03:45 > 0:03:49- There was a real organ here, - not that I'm saying this isn't.
0:03:50 > 0:03:52- The organist wasn't up to much!
0:03:52 > 0:03:57- I played for a few years - until someone better came along.
0:03:59 > 0:04:04- # Here is love, vast as the ocean
0:04:05 > 0:04:10- # Loving kindness as the flood
0:04:11 > 0:04:13- # When the Prince of Life #
0:04:14 > 0:04:17- I heard about this love in chapel...
0:04:17 > 0:04:20- ..but the vestry brought it alive.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23- Tea rather than the sermons.
0:04:23 > 0:04:26- My parents played a central part.
0:04:29 > 0:04:35- My father, Peter, led Sunday School. - Glesni, my mother, was a teacher.
0:04:35 > 0:04:38- They were prominent members...
0:04:38 > 0:04:41- ..until they moved - to a new church a few years ago...
0:04:41 > 0:04:43- ..to the surprise of some.
0:04:44 > 0:04:46- They still live by the chapel.
0:04:49 > 0:04:51- Hello.
0:04:54 > 0:04:59- My parents attend - Ammanford Evangelical Church now.
0:04:59 > 0:05:02- I want to go there with them.
0:05:02 > 0:05:06- Why did they leave - the Welsh chapel...
0:05:06 > 0:05:10- ..that was so central - to their lives?
0:05:10 > 0:05:14- It was a big decision, - and one we took very seriously.
0:05:14 > 0:05:16- It wasn't a snap decision.
0:05:16 > 0:05:18- We gave it a great deal of thought.
0:05:18 > 0:05:20- We gave it a great deal of thought.- - Why?
0:05:20 > 0:05:22- Why did we leave?
0:05:22 > 0:05:28- Fewer and fewer people - were coming to chapel.
0:05:28 > 0:05:32- It seemed only - the older generation attended.
0:05:32 > 0:05:38- The chapel's main purpose - was maintaining the status quo.
0:05:38 > 0:05:42- The ability to reach out...
0:05:46 > 0:05:49- ..with Christ's love wasn't there.
0:05:49 > 0:05:51- It's growing where you're going.
0:05:51 > 0:05:52- It's growing where you're going.- - Yes.
0:05:54 > 0:05:55- Why?
0:05:56 > 0:05:58- Good question.
0:05:58 > 0:06:02- The spiritual answer is, - God wants it to grow.
0:06:03 > 0:06:05- You believe, too.
0:06:05 > 0:06:07- For practical reasons...
0:06:08 > 0:06:12- ..rather than wait - for people to come to us...
0:06:12 > 0:06:15- ..we're reaching out to society...
0:06:16 > 0:06:18- ..to show Christ's love...
0:06:19 > 0:06:21- ..in food banks...
0:06:21 > 0:06:26- ..and clubs for the elderly.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31- In Ammanford...
0:06:32 > 0:06:37- ..they wanted to promote the Welsh - language within the church.
0:06:38 > 0:06:44- The reason for leaving Caersalem - was a kind of calling.
0:06:44 > 0:06:49- And there was a clause, - "We will be working in Welsh."
0:06:49 > 0:06:54- How do you feel about my journey...
0:06:54 > 0:06:57- ..revisiting places like Caersalem?
0:06:58 > 0:07:00- Your mother and I hope...
0:07:01 > 0:07:06- ..that you'll realize that - without God, there is nothing.
0:07:09 > 0:07:15- We wish you could find hope - in His Word.
0:07:15 > 0:07:20- My hope is that someone like you, - in particular...
0:07:21 > 0:07:24- ..can say - what you heard in Caersalem...
0:07:25 > 0:07:30- ..and what you'll hear this morning - is relevant to our lives.
0:07:32 > 0:07:36- We're going to - Llandybie Community Hall.
0:07:37 > 0:07:41- The church in Ammanford - is too small by now.
0:07:42 > 0:07:45- They hire quite a big hall.
0:07:54 > 0:07:56- Unlike many chapels...
0:07:57 > 0:07:59- ..we started with a coffee.
0:08:00 > 0:08:02- We chatted before worshiping.
0:08:03 > 0:08:06- # Rejoice! Rejoice!
0:08:07 > 0:08:10- # Let every tongue rejoice!
0:08:11 > 0:08:14- # One heart, one voice
0:08:15 > 0:08:18- # Oh, Church of Christ, rejoice! #
0:08:19 > 0:08:24- Maybe I didn't join in the singing, - but newcomers are welcomed.
0:08:25 > 0:08:29- My name's Sammy. I'm one - of the leaders in the church.
0:08:29 > 0:08:33- A special warm welcome - if you're new to us.
0:08:34 > 0:08:39- Can I direct your attention over - to our welcome desk.
0:08:39 > 0:08:41- It's got information about us...
0:08:42 > 0:08:45- ..a form you can fill - to share your details with us.
0:08:47 > 0:08:51- And then more singing, - with signing this time.
0:08:51 > 0:08:57- Auntie Ann, my father's sister, - signed so the deaf could join in.
0:09:01 > 0:09:05- There is a community here, - sharing with each other...
0:09:05 > 0:09:07- ..celebrating a love...
0:09:07 > 0:09:12- ..that is the greatest example - of love to Christians.
0:09:13 > 0:09:14- Jesus, we read of you.
0:09:15 > 0:09:20- You came eating, drinking, - sharing the bread and the wine...
0:09:20 > 0:09:24- ..in your last supper - before the Cross.
0:09:24 > 0:09:29- And then the Communion, a symbol - of the sacrifice of the Cross.
0:09:29 > 0:09:32- This sharing ties everyone together.
0:09:33 > 0:09:38- But it felt right to me - to pass the plate on.
0:09:39 > 0:09:41- Our strength in weakness.
0:09:43 > 0:09:45- Our victory.
0:09:45 > 0:09:46- Hallelujah.
0:09:47 > 0:09:49- What a saviour.
0:09:51 > 0:09:55- Must you be an evangelical minister - to wear spectacles like this?
0:09:56 > 0:09:58- I'm back.
0:09:59 > 0:10:04- But I'm not. It's lovely to be - back with family and old friends.
0:10:05 > 0:10:08- I don't feel I belong - to this community anymore.
0:10:10 > 0:10:12- That was lovely.
0:10:12 > 0:10:16- But there was something - difficult about it...
0:10:16 > 0:10:18- ..something bittersweet.
0:10:18 > 0:10:20- It was like coming home...
0:10:20 > 0:10:25- ..the welcome, the love, people - from all sorts of backgrounds.
0:10:25 > 0:10:29- That's what I remember - of my childhood in Ammanford.
0:10:29 > 0:10:32- Christ's love reaching out to all.
0:10:32 > 0:10:35- You didn't take the Communion.
0:10:35 > 0:10:36- No.
0:10:37 > 0:10:41- I didn't think it would be right. - I don't believe.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44- What would your father make of that?
0:10:46 > 0:10:50- I think he'd understand. - You'll have to ask him.
0:10:52 > 0:10:57- I need a piece of paper, - to do something I did as a child.
0:10:58 > 0:11:02- If I can remember - how to fold the paper...
0:11:03 > 0:11:07- ..I can show how central - the Cross was to my faith...
0:11:08 > 0:11:12- ..how the message of the Cross - destroyed it in the end.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17- There is one tear. That's the point.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20- Out of the one tear...
0:11:21 > 0:11:26- ..the message of the Cross - became clear.
0:11:28 > 0:11:30- Very good.
0:11:31 > 0:11:33- It's a bit windy.
0:11:34 > 0:11:38- We used the other pieces...
0:11:39 > 0:11:41- ..to explain the Cross...
0:11:45 > 0:11:48- ..to spell out one word.
0:11:54 > 0:11:56- And that's just it.
0:11:56 > 0:12:00- Christians - believe Hell is part of the Cross.
0:12:01 > 0:12:06- Without Hell, there was no reason - for Christ to die.
0:12:06 > 0:12:09- To me, as a Christian...
0:12:10 > 0:12:12- ..I couldn't accept it.
0:12:13 > 0:12:18- The God of Love - wanted to frighten people...
0:12:19 > 0:12:21- ..and even children...
0:12:21 > 0:12:23- ..so they would love him back.
0:12:24 > 0:12:29- That's one of the main reasons - why I stopped believing.
0:12:33 > 0:12:36- We continued our quest - to find other believers...
0:12:36 > 0:12:39- ..and a faith that's totally new - to me.
0:12:40 > 0:12:46- It's a religion - that emphasizes community and love.
0:12:47 > 0:12:48- OK.
0:12:50 > 0:12:52- Sikhs.
0:12:52 > 0:12:52- .
0:12:58 > 0:12:58- Subtitles
0:12:58 > 0:13:00- Subtitles- - Subtitles
0:13:02 > 0:13:04- This is another chapel.
0:13:05 > 0:13:07- It's not quite a chapel now.
0:13:08 > 0:13:12- We're a bit early. - I'll go in to ask.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17- This was once a Baptist chapel - in Splott, Cardiff.
0:13:17 > 0:13:21- It wasn't converted or demolished.
0:13:21 > 0:13:25- It was turned into a Gurdwara - for the city's Sikhs.
0:13:28 > 0:13:34- We were asked to cover our heads - as a mark of respect to God's House.
0:13:35 > 0:13:37- Something smells good.
0:13:37 > 0:13:42- Like in Ammanford Evangelical - Church, we were greeted with tea.
0:13:42 > 0:13:46- We followed our noses - to the kitchen.
0:13:48 > 0:13:53- The practical side - is central to the Sikh faith.
0:13:55 > 0:13:58- Actions are as important as words.
0:13:59 > 0:14:01- CHANTING
0:14:01 > 0:14:04- Over the loudspeaker...
0:14:04 > 0:14:09- ..I heard readings or prayers - from another part of the building.
0:14:10 > 0:14:15- To Sikhs, there is a relationship - between believing and doing...
0:14:15 > 0:14:18- ..the spiritual and physical - becoming one.
0:14:19 > 0:14:20- Nice, Sion?
0:14:21 > 0:14:26- SINGING OF WORDS - FROM THE HOLY BOOK
0:14:26 > 0:14:28- This is the Darbar, the prayer hall.
0:14:29 > 0:14:34- I listened with the others - to a reading from the Holy Book.
0:14:36 > 0:14:40- SINGING OF WORDS - FROM THE HOLY BOOK
0:14:41 > 0:14:43- The book is Guru Granth Sahib.
0:14:43 > 0:14:48- It's like a living guru to Sikhs - and is treated like a person.
0:14:49 > 0:14:54- The chauri fan purifies - the air that surrounds him.
0:14:57 > 0:15:01- A bowl, similar - to a Communion plate, arrived.
0:15:02 > 0:15:04- It was some sort of porridge.
0:15:06 > 0:15:09- Without thinking, - I took some and asked later.
0:15:14 > 0:15:16- What is it?
0:15:16 > 0:15:18- What is it?- - This is parshad.
0:15:18 > 0:15:22- It's made of wheat, flour - and butter.
0:15:22 > 0:15:24- It's Karah Parshad.
0:15:25 > 0:15:29- There are equal measures - of sugar, flour and butter...
0:15:30 > 0:15:36- ..to underline - that everyone is equal.
0:15:36 > 0:15:39- Afterwards, - I went back to the Langar...
0:15:40 > 0:15:45- ..where people socialize and eat, - like in a vestry.
0:15:46 > 0:15:49- I met Sonia Kaur.
0:15:49 > 0:15:52- You learnt Welsh in primary school.
0:15:52 > 0:15:53- You learnt Welsh in primary school.- - In Aberangell.
0:15:54 > 0:15:59- I used to go to Sunday School - in Aberangell, too.
0:16:00 > 0:16:05- Though familiar with Welsh culture, - Sonia lives in Northampton now.
0:16:06 > 0:16:10- She's back in Cardiff today - where she was in college.
0:16:11 > 0:16:14- You have to eat everything - on the plate.
0:16:14 > 0:16:16- I have to eat everything?
0:16:17 > 0:16:19- Is it disrespectful if I don't?
0:16:20 > 0:16:23- The food was prepared - in the Gurdwara...
0:16:23 > 0:16:28- ..and so it is all blessed.
0:16:30 > 0:16:34- I sat on the floor to eat - and chat to Sonia.
0:16:35 > 0:16:39- What is your faith, as a Sikh? - What do you believe in?
0:16:39 > 0:16:42- Is it all about - tradition and customs?
0:16:42 > 0:16:45- Or is it something spiritual?
0:16:45 > 0:16:49- To me, being a Sikh...
0:16:49 > 0:16:54- ..is a way of life.
0:16:55 > 0:17:00- It's a belief - in a respectable way of life...
0:17:00 > 0:17:04- ..and giving to those - less fortunate.
0:17:05 > 0:17:07- We're eating...
0:17:08 > 0:17:11- ..and sitting down - at the same level.
0:17:11 > 0:17:14- There are older people who aren't.
0:17:14 > 0:17:16- It ties into what you say.
0:17:18 > 0:17:19- It's this feeling of equality.
0:17:19 > 0:17:21- It's this feeling of equality.- - Exactly.
0:17:21 > 0:17:23- Anyone would be welcomed today.
0:17:23 > 0:17:24- Anyone would be welcomed today.- - Yes.
0:17:25 > 0:17:29- A lot of Gurdwaras - go out in the community...
0:17:30 > 0:17:33- ..and donate food - to those less fortunate.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37- Many homeless people...
0:17:38 > 0:17:43- ..come to the Gurdwara - and they have a hot meal.
0:17:44 > 0:17:48- CHANTING OF BELIEFS - AS THEY PREPARE FOOD
0:17:51 > 0:17:56- The kitchen is full of people - cooking to perform the Seva.
0:17:57 > 0:18:01- It's the act of selfless serving.
0:18:01 > 0:18:07- To Sikhs, completing the Seva - brings them closer to God.
0:18:09 > 0:18:13- A lot of people want to be a part - of the Seva.
0:18:15 > 0:18:21- The men and women are preparing - the food for this afternoon.
0:18:21 > 0:18:24- What are they chanting?
0:18:25 > 0:18:31- That God is in everyone - and all around us.
0:18:31 > 0:18:35- The people - who are preparing the food...
0:18:36 > 0:18:40- ..means the food is blessed.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47- They repeat the same thing - over and over.
0:18:47 > 0:18:52- They make sure their heads - are covered...
0:18:53 > 0:18:56- ..so everything is pure.
0:18:57 > 0:19:01- That isn't Health And Safety. - It's spiritual purity.
0:19:02 > 0:19:03- Exactly.
0:19:03 > 0:19:06- Performing Seva - to get closer to God...
0:19:06 > 0:19:10- ..is so different - from what I used to believe.
0:19:10 > 0:19:15- As a Christian, I could only - be purified through Christ's death.
0:19:16 > 0:19:19- Washing the dishes - couldn't cleanse my soul.
0:19:20 > 0:19:22- Sikhs have more than one way.
0:19:23 > 0:19:27- We mentioned - the people washing dishes.
0:19:27 > 0:19:30- People can also clean shoes.
0:19:31 > 0:19:33- We believe we are here...
0:19:34 > 0:19:37- ..to do as much good as we can.
0:19:38 > 0:19:41- We believe - we're here for a purpose...
0:19:41 > 0:19:46- ..to give something back - to the community and people.
0:19:46 > 0:19:50- One day, we will all die - and stand before God.
0:19:50 > 0:19:55- I want to be able to say I've - tried to do as much as I could...
0:19:55 > 0:20:00- ..to make the world a better place.
0:20:00 > 0:20:02- CHANTING OF BELIEFS
0:20:06 > 0:20:10- Outside the Gurdwara, - there's more purifying.
0:20:11 > 0:20:15- The annual ceremony that's part - of the Vaisakhi festival...
0:20:15 > 0:20:19- ..to celebrate the baptism - of the first Khalsa Sikhs...
0:20:20 > 0:20:22- ..300 years ago.
0:20:22 > 0:20:25- Khalsa means pure.
0:20:26 > 0:20:27- CHANTING OF BELIEFS
0:20:32 > 0:20:36- There's a pole and banner - outside every Gurdwara.
0:20:36 > 0:20:40- The pole is purified - in water and milk.
0:20:41 > 0:20:45- CHANTING OF BELIEFS
0:20:55 > 0:21:00- As we watched the banner being put - in place, Nick introduced himself.
0:21:01 > 0:21:05- He comes from England and - is keen to discuss his new faith.
0:21:05 > 0:21:07- Were you brought up a Sikh?
0:21:07 > 0:21:09- Were you brought up a Sikh?- - I only became a Sikh two years ago.
0:21:10 > 0:21:15- I met a Sikh in my second year - of university in Cardiff...
0:21:15 > 0:21:18- ..and moved in with him.
0:21:18 > 0:21:22- He introduced me to the religion - and I started reading the scripture.
0:21:23 > 0:21:25- I was amazed. - It really connected to me.
0:21:26 > 0:21:30- What attracted you to the religion? - What makes you believe?
0:21:30 > 0:21:34- I think just the balance - of spirituality...
0:21:34 > 0:21:37- ..but with practical principles.
0:21:37 > 0:21:40- We have selfless service...
0:21:40 > 0:21:43- ..and something - we do in university...
0:21:44 > 0:21:46- ..in Sikh societies - every Wednesday...
0:21:47 > 0:21:51- ..is to out into the city centre - and we try and feed the homeless.
0:21:51 > 0:21:53- CHANTING OF BELIEFS
0:22:01 > 0:22:06- Here is an example of the link - between faith and morality.
0:22:06 > 0:22:09- The students look - after the homeless...
0:22:11 > 0:22:14- ..and it all stems from here.
0:22:14 > 0:22:19- The believers worship together - and declare their faith.
0:22:19 > 0:22:24- They also live it, through - reaching out to the community.
0:22:24 > 0:22:28- That's what Sonia and I discussed - before I left...
0:22:28 > 0:22:31- ..the role of religion and faith - in society...
0:22:32 > 0:22:35- ..and how the chapels - were central to that.
0:22:35 > 0:22:39- It's disappointing - to see chapels closing...
0:22:39 > 0:22:41- ..and empty.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44- They were there for a reason.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47- It's sad no-one is using them.
0:22:47 > 0:22:52- It's perfect to have - the Sikh Gurdwara in a chapel.
0:22:52 > 0:22:57- The chapel is used to worship God.
0:22:58 > 0:23:03- It's important to Sikhs - to belong to the community.
0:23:04 > 0:23:07- As a child, - my family went to the Gurdwara.
0:23:08 > 0:23:11- We met uncles and aunties there.
0:23:12 > 0:23:15- It's where we gathered.
0:23:15 > 0:23:19- Perhaps that's been lost.
0:23:20 > 0:23:23- People gathering, eating together...
0:23:24 > 0:23:28- ..enjoying each other's company.
0:23:30 > 0:23:32- CHANTING OF BELIEFS
0:23:35 > 0:23:39- It's a matter of opinion - whether that's been lost.
0:23:39 > 0:23:42- It hasn't in the Gurdwara in Splott.
0:23:43 > 0:23:47- An old Welsh chapel - is still being of service.
0:23:47 > 0:23:51- A religious community - worship and meet here...
0:23:52 > 0:23:55- ..as I did - in Caersalem chapel and vestry.
0:23:55 > 0:23:58- The children would love it here.
0:23:58 > 0:24:02- You'd like Nedw. - You and Nedw would be big friends.
0:24:03 > 0:24:04- .
0:24:07 > 0:24:07- Subtitles
0:24:07 > 0:24:09- Subtitles- - Subtitles
0:24:10 > 0:24:14- Days after returning from - the Gurdwara and we're off again.
0:24:15 > 0:24:17- The Sikh experience was valuable.
0:24:18 > 0:24:23- Selfless serving is a fundamental - part of their religion.
0:24:23 > 0:24:27- Surely there's a link - between morality and religion?
0:24:27 > 0:24:29- But Rhys had a point to make.
0:24:30 > 0:24:34- Before we go, I have a present - for you from Oxford.
0:24:34 > 0:24:36- Here are two badges for you.
0:24:37 > 0:24:42- Thanks! - Happy Humanist and Good Without God.
0:24:43 > 0:24:47- Aren't they good? - You can be an atheist and be moral.
0:24:48 > 0:24:50- Or immoral. Thanks, Rhys.
0:24:50 > 0:24:51- You're welcome.
0:24:51 > 0:24:54- You're welcome.- - I'll wear them.
0:24:54 > 0:25:00- We're not going to a chapel, but it - promises to be a special experience.
0:25:00 > 0:25:04- We can't not film this.
0:25:04 > 0:25:09- There won't be one like it - until 2026. I have the technology.
0:25:10 > 0:25:14- Perhaps we'll all see the light, - Rhys!
0:25:15 > 0:25:16- Or not.
0:25:16 > 0:25:18- Or not.- - Yes!
0:25:19 > 0:25:21- Let's head for the mountains.
0:25:28 > 0:25:32- People have come - to the shores of Padarn Lake...
0:25:33 > 0:25:36- ..to see the eclipse.
0:25:38 > 0:25:43- There are occasions that draw people - together to watch in wonderment.
0:25:44 > 0:25:48- I'd say it's halfway, as an expert!
0:25:55 > 0:25:57- It's like a smile.
0:25:58 > 0:26:01- The gods are still smiling on us.
0:26:01 > 0:26:05- That's what people used to believe.
0:26:05 > 0:26:09- There is a sense of something - incredible happening.
0:26:10 > 0:26:12- It's an amazing sight.
0:26:13 > 0:26:17- It makes me think about - a hymn we sang as children.
0:26:18 > 0:26:21- "How can we measure the blue sky?
0:26:21 > 0:26:23- "How many stars are overhead?
0:26:23 > 0:26:28- "The world whispers to you, - little child, how great is God."
0:26:30 > 0:26:34- Do you think this proves - there is a God?
0:26:34 > 0:26:38- No. I feel small, compared - to the universe that's so big.
0:26:39 > 0:26:41- It's something to wonder at.
0:26:41 > 0:26:44- It's something to wonder at.- - I do, as an atheist.
0:26:45 > 0:26:50- Doesn't it make you think there is - something bigger than us out there?
0:26:51 > 0:26:52- No.
0:26:53 > 0:26:56- Deep down, I agree with Rhys.
0:26:56 > 0:27:00- There are years since - I saw God in the creation...
0:27:00 > 0:27:03- ..or to think about it - as a creation at all.
0:27:05 > 0:27:09- Perhaps we should go to Pantycelyn - Hall in Aberystwyth next.
0:27:09 > 0:27:13- I was a student there. - I was in the Christian Union.
0:27:14 > 0:27:17- That's where the doubts set in, - too.
0:27:17 > 0:27:22- If you want this programme - to be unbiased and balanced...
0:27:23 > 0:27:25- ..you have to meet an atheist.
0:27:26 > 0:27:27- I'm always with an atheist!
0:27:27 > 0:27:29- I'm always with an atheist!- - Apart from me.
0:27:34 > 0:27:38- There's no escaping Christianity, - even in our office.
0:27:38 > 0:27:41- The building is called Y Goleuad.
0:27:41 > 0:27:45- It's where the Presbyterian - magazine Y Goleuad was printed.
0:27:45 > 0:27:47- The name has stuck.
0:27:50 > 0:27:53- There's a lot of reaction - to the blog.
0:27:53 > 0:27:59- I'm reading a different publication, - atheist Dylan Llyr's blog.
0:28:00 > 0:28:05- So I phoned him. - I arranged to meet him after work.
0:28:07 > 0:28:08- DOORBELL
0:28:10 > 0:28:11- Dylan, how are you?
0:28:11 > 0:28:13- Dylan, how are you?- - How are you?
0:28:13 > 0:28:15- Come in. Welcome to Y Goleuad.
0:28:16 > 0:28:18- I wanted to show these to you.
0:28:18 > 0:28:20- Y Goleuad was printed here.
0:28:21 > 0:28:23- These are old printing blocks.
0:28:23 > 0:28:26- There are hymns - and Biblical stories.
0:28:27 > 0:28:29- I wanted you to feel at home!
0:28:31 > 0:28:33- Why did you start to blog?
0:28:33 > 0:28:38- As an atheist, it's a subject - I've always been interested in.
0:28:39 > 0:28:41- In school...
0:28:42 > 0:28:46- ..I read about people - who didn't believe in evolution.
0:28:46 > 0:28:48- It awoke something in me.
0:28:49 > 0:28:51- The interest has always been there.
0:28:51 > 0:28:56- Are there fewer Welsh atheists? - It sounds like a silly question.
0:28:56 > 0:28:58- Because of our history...
0:28:58 > 0:29:02- ..are we reluctant - to call ourselves atheists?
0:29:02 > 0:29:05- That's an interesting question. - I'm not sure.
0:29:05 > 0:29:08- It would be interesting - to conduct a survey...
0:29:09 > 0:29:11- ..to see if there's - a link or difference...
0:29:12 > 0:29:16- ..between Welsh speaking Christians - compared to the general public.
0:29:17 > 0:29:20- We've carried out a few surveys.
0:29:20 > 0:29:23- Let me show you the results.
0:29:26 > 0:29:28- I mentioned the questionnaire...
0:29:29 > 0:29:32- ..that I carried out - in my old school.
0:29:32 > 0:29:38- 52% of the pupils ticked - that they were Christian.
0:29:39 > 0:29:42- Does that disappoint you, - as an atheist?
0:29:43 > 0:29:45- Historically, 52% is low.
0:29:47 > 0:29:49- I'd argue...
0:29:50 > 0:29:55- ..that it's because - it's what their parents believe.
0:29:55 > 0:29:58- It's the Christian culture.
0:29:58 > 0:30:03- They don't necessarily believe - in Christian ideology.
0:30:03 > 0:30:07- Your blog is pro atheism...
0:30:07 > 0:30:09- ..and anti religion.
0:30:09 > 0:30:12- Are atheists against religion?
0:30:12 > 0:30:14- Or could an atheist say...
0:30:14 > 0:30:18- "..I'm not against religion, - I just don't believe."
0:30:19 > 0:30:23- An atheist - values scientific evidence...
0:30:24 > 0:30:28- ..supports civil rights...
0:30:28 > 0:30:32- ..gay marriage, - abortion and so forth.
0:30:32 > 0:30:34- For that reason...
0:30:35 > 0:30:40- ..you have to be against religion.
0:30:40 > 0:30:43- They go hand in hand.
0:30:44 > 0:30:49- I would find it hard - to call myself an atheist...
0:30:49 > 0:30:53- ..and tell people not to believe.
0:30:53 > 0:30:58- Do you have to be so evangelical?
0:31:02 > 0:31:04- I'd argue, yes.
0:31:05 > 0:31:10- Religion has a harmful effect - on society.
0:31:12 > 0:31:15- Whether people believe or not...
0:31:15 > 0:31:20- ..without the chapel, - has our moral values suffered?
0:31:20 > 0:31:24- Is there a link - between moral values and faith?
0:31:24 > 0:31:27- No. I feel strongly about this.
0:31:30 > 0:31:32- If anything...
0:31:32 > 0:31:35- ..religion causes people...
0:31:36 > 0:31:39- ..to behave worse - than they would otherwise.
0:31:40 > 0:31:43- We visited - a Sikh Gurdwara in Cardiff.
0:31:43 > 0:31:46- Like many religions...
0:31:46 > 0:31:51- ..morality was at the core - of what they believed...
0:31:52 > 0:31:55- ..and this strengthened - their morality.
0:31:55 > 0:31:59- There's something healthy - about that.
0:32:00 > 0:32:05- What do they mean? Does God - want them to do these things?
0:32:05 > 0:32:08- I think they're doing - themselves a disservice.
0:32:09 > 0:32:13- It suggests that if God didn't want - them to do these things...
0:32:13 > 0:32:15- ..that they wouldn't do them.
0:32:16 > 0:32:19- Good people do these things anyway.
0:32:20 > 0:32:25- I'm going to Pantycelyn Hall. - I was there in college 20 years ago.
0:32:25 > 0:32:28- I was a Christian at the time.
0:32:29 > 0:32:31- I want to give this to the students.
0:32:32 > 0:32:35- I've already asked - 13-year-old school pupils.
0:32:35 > 0:32:39- I'd expect different answers - from students.
0:32:40 > 0:32:44- I think fewer people will tick - the Christian box.
0:32:45 > 0:32:49- I can't be sure. It'll be - interesting to see the results.
0:32:49 > 0:32:52- I enjoyed talking to Dylan.
0:32:52 > 0:32:56- Cautious and intelligent, he's - a good ambassador for atheism...
0:32:56 > 0:33:00- ..not that he sees himself - like that!
0:33:00 > 0:33:05- Is it the decisiveness that prevents - me from calling myself an atheist?
0:33:06 > 0:33:10- I had enough when I was young - of thinking I knew the answers.
0:33:13 > 0:33:16- I'm sure you're tired - of following me.
0:33:16 > 0:33:18- At 18 years of age...
0:33:19 > 0:33:22- ..I came to Aberystwyth - to study Welsh and Drama.
0:33:22 > 0:33:28- And here it is, Pantycelyn Hall. - I haven't been here for 20 years.
0:33:28 > 0:33:30- It hasn't changed at all.
0:33:31 > 0:33:33- Unlike you, Gwion.
0:33:33 > 0:33:34- Unlike you, Gwion.- - Unlike me!
0:33:35 > 0:33:38- When I first walked in - to Pantycelyn...
0:33:39 > 0:33:41- ..I was an unconfident fresher.
0:33:41 > 0:33:43- But my faith was strong.
0:33:44 > 0:33:49- I joined the Christian Union, and - was "Gwion the Evangelist" to many.
0:33:51 > 0:33:53- It still smells the same.
0:33:53 > 0:33:56- It's not unpleasant, - just distinctive.
0:34:01 > 0:34:04- The small lounge.
0:34:05 > 0:34:09- This is where - the Christian Union met.
0:34:10 > 0:34:13- There is still - a Christian Union here.
0:34:13 > 0:34:17- Do the members still believe - as strongly as I once did?
0:34:18 > 0:34:20- I'm in the way, sorry.
0:34:24 > 0:34:26- I found this the other day.
0:34:28 > 0:34:32- The New Testament. - I knew it was from this period.
0:34:32 > 0:34:36- I bought it soon after I arrived - here and I carried it round with me.
0:34:37 > 0:34:39- It reads, Aberystwyth, 1991.
0:34:39 > 0:34:43- On the first page, Romans 1, 16.
0:34:45 > 0:34:47- I obviously read it often.
0:34:48 > 0:34:50- This verse says it all.
0:34:50 > 0:34:53- "I am not ashamed - of the gospel of Christ.
0:34:54 > 0:34:57- "For it is the power - of God unto salvation...
0:34:57 > 0:35:00- "..to every one that believeth."
0:35:00 > 0:35:02- That's what I believed.
0:35:03 > 0:35:04- It's OK.
0:35:04 > 0:35:07- The question to me - and to us all is...
0:35:07 > 0:35:11- ..was it right to believe - so uncompromisingly...
0:35:11 > 0:35:14- ..and so extremely, - as some might say?
0:35:14 > 0:35:18- If I hadn't believed - so black and white...
0:35:18 > 0:35:21- ..I'd still believe - in something now.
0:35:24 > 0:35:24- .
0:35:28 > 0:35:28- Subtitles
0:35:28 > 0:35:30- Subtitles- - Subtitles
0:35:30 > 0:35:35- Thanks for your help. - It'll be handy to hold the papers.
0:35:35 > 0:35:37- I'll bring it back later.
0:35:37 > 0:35:41- My question is, do - the people of Wales still believe?
0:35:43 > 0:35:45- Like in my old secondary school...
0:35:46 > 0:35:51- ..I'm asking the Pantycelyn students - if they are religious or not.
0:35:52 > 0:35:55- Can you pass these round?
0:35:56 > 0:36:01- Are you happy to have a go? The - question is, do we still believe?
0:36:02 > 0:36:05- 52% of the school pupils - said they were Christians.
0:36:05 > 0:36:10- But students - are more independently minded.
0:36:10 > 0:36:14- I reckon fewer - will say they're Christians.
0:36:14 > 0:36:17- Miriam Williams, - the UMCA president...
0:36:17 > 0:36:22- ..doesn't think students will find - it easy to say they have no faith.
0:36:22 > 0:36:25- It's a difficult subject.
0:36:26 > 0:36:30- It's such a broad subject, - there are no definite answers.
0:36:31 > 0:36:36- There are individuals who will - argue their case, either way.
0:36:36 > 0:36:39- It's hard to have the guts to say...
0:36:40 > 0:36:44- "..Yes, I believe" or "No, I don't."
0:36:44 > 0:36:46- People are unsure.
0:36:47 > 0:36:51- Having to make a choice, - she ticked the box Christian.
0:36:52 > 0:36:57- That's what the majority - of the school pupils did, too.
0:36:57 > 0:37:00- I'm not criticising them.
0:37:00 > 0:37:05- They feel they're Christians because - of their upbringing and culture.
0:37:05 > 0:37:09- It's more than going to chapel - and reading the Bible.
0:37:09 > 0:37:11- It involves morals, upbringing...
0:37:12 > 0:37:16- ..and knowing the difference - between right and wrong.
0:37:16 > 0:37:20- It's not about - believing in God and chapel.
0:37:20 > 0:37:25- My generation feel they're Christian - even if they don't go to chapel.
0:37:26 > 0:37:29- How are you, Gwion? I'm Gwilym.
0:37:29 > 0:37:32- Gwilym Tudur introduced himself.
0:37:32 > 0:37:36- The young evangelist is - the Christian Union president.
0:37:37 > 0:37:41- I'm not saying it's of more - interest to you, as a Christian...
0:37:41 > 0:37:44- ..but you'll want to - know the outcome.
0:37:45 > 0:37:47- Yes, to know where people stand.
0:37:47 > 0:37:52- Do they consider themselves - Christians? Do people worship?
0:37:52 > 0:37:57- They're important questions to ask. - I want to know the answers.
0:37:57 > 0:38:00- Will anyone tick No Religion?
0:38:00 > 0:38:03- Yes.
0:38:03 > 0:38:05- More or less?
0:38:05 > 0:38:11- More, following the last census - and the more I get to know people.
0:38:13 > 0:38:18- People tend to say - they don't believe in Christianity.
0:38:19 > 0:38:23- You'd better do this, too! - I think I know what you'll tick.
0:38:24 > 0:38:26- There's nothing wrong with that!
0:38:26 > 0:38:31- Gwilym kindly suggested we use - his room to count the papers.
0:38:32 > 0:38:38- More than half the students - said they were Christian.
0:38:39 > 0:38:44- Did that surprise Gwilym and fellow - Christian Union member, Dyfan?
0:38:46 > 0:38:48- I'm not very surprised.
0:38:49 > 0:38:51- I'm not surprised at all.
0:38:51 > 0:38:55- But I'll go a step further.
0:38:55 > 0:39:01- It's one thing - to tick the Christian box...
0:39:03 > 0:39:07- ..it's another to feel - you actually are a Christian.
0:39:08 > 0:39:12- A Christian follows Jesus Christ.
0:39:14 > 0:39:19- Jesus Christ said that Christianity - is a relationship with God...
0:39:19 > 0:39:21- ..to know Jesus Christ...
0:39:22 > 0:39:26- ..to see him as a saviour - and to live with Jesus...
0:39:27 > 0:39:28- ..following his example.
0:39:29 > 0:39:31- That's why you spread the Word.
0:39:31 > 0:39:32- Yes.
0:39:33 > 0:39:37- It's worth talking about - and knowing Jesus.
0:39:38 > 0:39:41- The good news is, - that there is forgiveness...
0:39:42 > 0:39:45- ..a way to avoid Hell.
0:39:45 > 0:39:48- Is there Christianity without Hell?
0:39:48 > 0:39:52- In the end, - I just couldn't accept it.
0:39:55 > 0:39:57- Hell is being separated from God.
0:39:59 > 0:40:04- People can reject God, but then - they have to face the consequences.
0:40:04 > 0:40:07- God has a plan - so that doesn't have to happen.
0:40:08 > 0:40:12- We can have eternal life and - a relationship with him forever.
0:40:14 > 0:40:15- Can I ask you a couple of questions?
0:40:15 > 0:40:17- Can I ask you a couple of questions?- - Yes.
0:40:17 > 0:40:20- When you were a Christian...
0:40:20 > 0:40:24- ..why did you feel - you needed to be saved?
0:40:25 > 0:40:29- What has made you think - you don't need to be saved?
0:40:30 > 0:40:32- What changed?
0:40:35 > 0:40:40- I became a Christian when I was - very young. Perhaps I was too young.
0:40:41 > 0:40:44- I don't blame my parents. - I'd do the same.
0:40:44 > 0:40:47- It's what they believed.
0:40:47 > 0:40:51- I can see why you want - to spread the Word.
0:40:52 > 0:40:58- But was it healthy to think - I was lost in my early teens?
0:40:59 > 0:41:02- Was it right to think - I needed forgiveness?
0:41:03 > 0:41:07- I knew I could do bad things - - I still do bad things.
0:41:07 > 0:41:09- I don't believe in original sin.
0:41:09 > 0:41:12- I can be the worst person - in the world.
0:41:12 > 0:41:16- It sounds patronizing - to say I grew up.
0:41:19 > 0:41:23- Perhaps it's my personality, - that I'm quite liberal.
0:41:23 > 0:41:28- I'm tolerant, like you are.
0:41:31 > 0:41:36- These things didn't rest easily - with me any more.
0:41:36 > 0:41:41- That's what I asked today, - especially as I'm back here.
0:41:42 > 0:41:46- Do we have to be so - uncompromising in our beliefs?
0:41:47 > 0:41:50- The Christian message - is so special...
0:41:51 > 0:41:56- ..if we really understand it, we - can't not be Christian to the core.
0:41:58 > 0:42:03- The Christian Union members - believed as strongly as I once did.
0:42:05 > 0:42:10- That night, they met outside - a Welsh student gig...
0:42:10 > 0:42:15- ..to hand out cuppas, biscuits - and spread the Word.
0:42:16 > 0:42:19- Thanks Lord for caring for us.
0:42:19 > 0:42:25- You shine a light and give hope - to people who are lost...
0:42:26 > 0:42:30- ..to the sick who need a doctor.
0:42:30 > 0:42:34- After praying, - and setting out refreshments....
0:42:34 > 0:42:36- ..we waited for the students.
0:42:36 > 0:42:41- It's eleven o'clock. - When do you expect people to arrive?
0:42:41 > 0:42:44- It's usually closer to midnight.
0:42:45 > 0:42:50- Do they come here on their way - to the Union?
0:42:50 > 0:42:54- We usually walk down the steps - to meet them.
0:42:55 > 0:42:56- Do we have enough biscuits?
0:42:56 > 0:42:58- Do we have enough biscuits?- - Yes!
0:43:00 > 0:43:05- The students have had a bad taste - costume crawl in town.
0:43:06 > 0:43:08- STUDENTS SHOUT
0:43:08 > 0:43:11- The contrast between - their costumes...
0:43:11 > 0:43:15- ..and the Christian - hoodies is striking.
0:43:15 > 0:43:17- Can I have a cuppa later?
0:43:17 > 0:43:19- Can I have a cuppa later?- - You can have one now, if you want.
0:43:20 > 0:43:22- We'll have one on our way back.
0:43:22 > 0:43:24- We'll have one on our way back.- - Thanks.
0:43:26 > 0:43:28- They're still arriving at the gig.
0:43:29 > 0:43:31- We're leaving.
0:43:31 > 0:43:34- It's been an emotional day...
0:43:34 > 0:43:38- ..and more difficult - than I expected.
0:43:38 > 0:43:41- I was cheerful - when I arrived this morning.
0:43:41 > 0:43:46- The place hasn't changed, - unlike how much I have changed.
0:43:47 > 0:43:49- I didn't realize how much.
0:43:50 > 0:43:55- After meeting the Christian Union - members...
0:43:56 > 0:44:00- ..I can see how different I am now.
0:44:10 > 0:44:14- The following morning, - after weeks of travelling...
0:44:14 > 0:44:17- ..it dawns on me - it's the end of the journey...
0:44:17 > 0:44:23- ..of trying to discover whether - Welsh people still believe in God.
0:44:23 > 0:44:26- So, Gwion. The end of the journey.
0:44:27 > 0:44:29- Yes. The journey's end.
0:44:30 > 0:44:33- Do the people of Wales - still believe?
0:44:34 > 0:44:37- Do we still believe?
0:44:38 > 0:44:40- Ask Sion!
0:44:42 > 0:44:46- If you'd asked me before - the journey, I'd have said, "No."
0:44:46 > 0:44:50- I thought that the people of Wales, - like me...
0:44:50 > 0:44:54- ..used to be strong, vocal - and public in their faith.
0:44:56 > 0:44:58- I'm not like that now.
0:44:58 > 0:45:00- We've reached the journey's end.
0:45:01 > 0:45:05- We met a lot of people - who still believe, unlike me.
0:45:07 > 0:45:09- Who am I to question that?
0:45:09 > 0:45:13- As someone who has lost his faith...
0:45:13 > 0:45:18- ..what right do I have to question - people who still believe?
0:45:20 > 0:45:25- Doubts set in when I was - a student in Aberystwyth.
0:45:25 > 0:45:29- I was a Christian, - and still stood firm.
0:45:29 > 0:45:32- But under the surface, - doubts were setting in.
0:45:33 > 0:45:36- I tried to withstand them - for many years.
0:45:44 > 0:45:46- When did you stop believing?
0:45:47 > 0:45:52- It didn't happen overnight, - unlike the way I came to believe.
0:45:52 > 0:45:57- I remember talking to a friend - on the seafront in Aberystwyth.
0:45:58 > 0:46:02- "We all have doubts," she said.
0:46:03 > 0:46:09- "If we pray, read more and come - closer to God, certainty comes."
0:46:09 > 0:46:11- That's what I did for years.
0:46:12 > 0:46:15- After Aberystwyth, - you were a preacher.
0:46:15 > 0:46:16- Yes.
0:46:17 > 0:46:19- Looking back...
0:46:19 > 0:46:25- ..I was preaching to convince - myself more than anyone.
0:46:27 > 0:46:29- It didn't work.
0:46:29 > 0:46:30- It didn't work.- - No.
0:46:31 > 0:46:36- The sort of Christianity I - believed in couldn't be questioned.
0:46:37 > 0:46:40- If I had been a liberal - and moderate Christian...
0:46:41 > 0:46:44- ..perhaps I'd still be a believer.
0:46:45 > 0:46:47- Hey. We almost missed it.
0:46:48 > 0:46:49- The Devil's Pulpit.
0:46:50 > 0:46:52- It's better from the back.
0:46:55 > 0:46:58- I believed in the Devil.
0:47:00 > 0:47:04- You don't believe in the Devil, - Heaven and Hell...
0:47:05 > 0:47:09- ..and you don't believe in God, - so that makes you an atheist.
0:47:12 > 0:47:14- We're back here, are we?
0:47:14 > 0:47:17- We're back here, are we?- - You are, obviously.
0:47:19 > 0:47:22- Aren't you, Gwion? - You're an atheist.
0:47:24 > 0:47:24- Aren't you?
0:47:24 > 0:47:27- Aren't you?- - One for the road?
0:47:27 > 0:47:30- # GWAHODDIAD HYMN TUNE #
0:47:48 > 0:47:51- Who needs a radio, Rhys?!
0:47:51 > 0:47:55- # GWAHODDIAD HYMN TUNE #
0:48:13 > 0:48:15- S4C Subtitles by Gwead
0:48:15 > 0:48:15- .