0:00:02 > 0:00:04Good evening, cats and kittens, and thank you for joining me
0:00:04 > 0:00:07and what is a preposterous, scientifically specious,
0:00:07 > 0:00:11but I hope, tremendously enjoyable adventure into sound. Look at this.
0:00:11 > 0:00:15This plastic waffle, this hot biscuit, this platter.
0:00:15 > 0:00:16It's an LP, of course.
0:00:16 > 0:00:20One of the most wonderful creations in the history of art.
0:00:20 > 0:00:24LPs didn't last very long - 30-odd years - and yet, while they were
0:00:24 > 0:00:28with us, they harnessed the noises that shook the world.
0:00:28 > 0:00:32Tonight, we will celebrate the rock incarnation of the LP.
0:00:32 > 0:00:35I will be joined by three equally-foolhardy enthusiasts,
0:00:35 > 0:00:39to kick out the jams and wind up with a selection of albums
0:00:39 > 0:00:42guaranteed to enrich all our lives.
0:00:42 > 0:00:44Again.
0:00:44 > 0:00:45Oh, we're rolling.
0:00:58 > 0:01:02Hey, cats and kittens. Welcome to my world.
0:01:02 > 0:01:05And for viewers under the age of, I don't know, 80,
0:01:05 > 0:01:09these beautiful artefacts are what are known as LPs, the long player.
0:01:09 > 0:01:12Fragile, fantastic discs of vinyl,
0:01:12 > 0:01:15containing a set of songs by a single artist.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18Later usurped by the soulless CD,
0:01:18 > 0:01:21and these days probably only understood by kids
0:01:21 > 0:01:26as a curious landlocked series of MP3 files that can't be shuffled.
0:01:26 > 0:01:31Tonight, in order to distil the essence of the rock LP, I'm joined
0:01:31 > 0:01:35by a writer, critic and all-round hip-waxing worrier, Kate Mossman.
0:01:35 > 0:01:36Kate.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39Over there is the man who produced the Smiths, New Order
0:01:39 > 0:01:42and Blur, Stephen Street.
0:01:42 > 0:01:43- Evening, Stephen.- Evening.
0:01:43 > 0:01:46And right here, a chap who, despite it all,
0:01:46 > 0:01:49still sees even the best motorcar as merely an elaborate way to
0:01:49 > 0:01:53deliver Deep Purple on the move, Jeremy Clarkson.
0:01:55 > 0:01:59Coming back to Kate, just as an introduction as bona fides,
0:01:59 > 0:02:02what was the first album you bought with your own actual money?
0:02:02 > 0:02:04I'm afraid to say it was a greatest hits.
0:02:04 > 0:02:07- That's OK.- So, yeah. I'm not snobby about the greatest hits,
0:02:07 > 0:02:09because they're an introduction, even though you associate them
0:02:09 > 0:02:11with the glovebox of the car.
0:02:11 > 0:02:12You seem to be putting off who it was.
0:02:12 > 0:02:15Yeah, it was Paul McCartney, and it was called All The Best.
0:02:15 > 0:02:16Nothing wrong with that.
0:02:16 > 0:02:18It was the nice man from the Frog Chorus,
0:02:18 > 0:02:20so it was all his Wings stuff and all his '80s stuff.
0:02:20 > 0:02:21Nothing wrong with that. Stephen?
0:02:21 > 0:02:24For me, the first album I spent my own pocket money on
0:02:24 > 0:02:26was Ziggy Stardust And The Spiders From Mars.
0:02:26 > 0:02:27- Really?- Yeah, yeah.
0:02:27 > 0:02:31I was absolutely captivated by Bowie,
0:02:31 > 0:02:34with the Starman single, that Top Of The Pops appearance.
0:02:34 > 0:02:36- I think everyone remembers that. - Absolutely.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39And that was the only single from that album,
0:02:39 > 0:02:42but I went out and spent my pocket money on that album, and I loved it.
0:02:42 > 0:02:44In fact, it's with me today.
0:02:44 > 0:02:46OK. Jeremy, first album you bought with your own money?
0:02:46 > 0:02:47It's here.
0:02:49 > 0:02:51- Come on!- Who's Next.
0:02:51 > 0:02:52What are you, 25?
0:02:52 > 0:02:55People are going to think that I'm lying, that this wasn't...
0:02:55 > 0:02:57Was it '71 or '73?
0:02:57 > 0:02:58'71.
0:02:58 > 0:02:59'71. I was 11.
0:02:59 > 0:03:01All right.
0:03:01 > 0:03:04But just to prove I'm not just inventing a cool album,
0:03:04 > 0:03:05the first single I bought
0:03:05 > 0:03:07was Tony Christie, I Did What I Did For Maria,
0:03:07 > 0:03:10so that shows that I'm not lying. I'll own up to that.
0:03:10 > 0:03:12This was the very first album
0:03:12 > 0:03:13and I still think it's one of the very best.
0:03:13 > 0:03:16Well, mine was The Pious Bird Of Good Omen, Fleetwood Mac.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19- Wow.- Because my sister's boyfriend introduced me to all of that.
0:03:19 > 0:03:20Was that Peter Green?
0:03:20 > 0:03:24Of course, Peter Green. There's another Fleetwood Mac, is there?!
0:03:24 > 0:03:27Listen, we're going to ditch the digital tonight,
0:03:27 > 0:03:28and embrace the analogue.
0:03:28 > 0:03:31Later, we'll be celebrating the golden age, by selecting
0:03:31 > 0:03:35a dozen rock albums, of a certain vintage, that enriched our lives,
0:03:35 > 0:03:36and hopefully yours, too,
0:03:36 > 0:03:40and they will be mounted with pride over here, on the Wall of Sound.
0:03:40 > 0:03:43It's OK, Phil Spector's in prison. He can't touch us.
0:03:43 > 0:03:46And we begin our album odyssey with the question,
0:03:46 > 0:03:48"All right, what is rock?"
0:03:49 > 0:03:53MUSIC: "Sweet Child Of Mine" by Guns 'n' Roses
0:03:54 > 0:03:58If ever sound was made for 12 inches of hard-spinning black vinyl,
0:03:58 > 0:03:59it was rock.
0:04:01 > 0:04:05Rock albums are the boldest, the noisiest,
0:04:05 > 0:04:08and the most bizarre in music.
0:04:08 > 0:04:14For over 50 years, the rock LP has been evolving, offending,
0:04:14 > 0:04:16inspiring,
0:04:16 > 0:04:20and, yeah, occasionally embarrassing.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23MUSIC: "Rock Around The Clock" by Bill Haley And The Comets
0:04:23 > 0:04:26The birth of the rock 'n' roll era, the 1950s, was all
0:04:26 > 0:04:30about the single, and most albums merely captured the band's set.
0:04:31 > 0:04:35But by the late 1960s, with the advent of multi-track recording,
0:04:35 > 0:04:40bands began to realise the full potential of studio albums.
0:04:40 > 0:04:43Albums gave artists the chance to write their own songs,
0:04:43 > 0:04:46to experiment, to luxuriate and mature.
0:04:46 > 0:04:49The Beatles, naturally, pioneered the rock concept album,
0:04:49 > 0:04:52tracks that added up to more than the sum of their parts.
0:04:54 > 0:04:58The Who pushed the boundaries, with the dubious joys of the rock opera.
0:05:00 > 0:05:04By 1969, so revered was the album that a new band called
0:05:04 > 0:05:07Led Zeppelin actually thought releasing a single was beneath them.
0:05:12 > 0:05:15MUSIC: "Twist And Shout" by The Beatles
0:05:17 > 0:05:18# Well, shake it up baby, now. #
0:05:18 > 0:05:21Consider this. At the beginning of the 1960s,
0:05:21 > 0:05:25the Beatles knocked out ten songs in a day for their debut album.
0:05:27 > 0:05:28By the end of the decade, the druggie,
0:05:28 > 0:05:32psychedelic Fab Four were taking six months to experiment,
0:05:32 > 0:05:35to craft and produce their final Abbey Road recordings.
0:05:35 > 0:05:36Here's Ringo.
0:05:36 > 0:05:39We have a special man who sits here and goes like this.
0:05:39 > 0:05:42And the guitar turns into a piano, or something, you know.
0:05:43 > 0:05:46And then, you may say, "Why don't you use the piano?"
0:05:46 > 0:05:47"Cos the piano sounds like a guitar."
0:05:47 > 0:05:50The rock album had come of age,
0:05:50 > 0:05:53and it was about to enter its golden era.
0:05:54 > 0:05:58In the 1970s, we witnessed the invention of glam rock,
0:05:58 > 0:06:00country rock, soft rock...
0:06:00 > 0:06:02# Strange voice on the telephone... #
0:06:02 > 0:06:04..heavy rock...
0:06:06 > 0:06:09# Fun, fun, fun on the autobahn...
0:06:09 > 0:06:12..krautrock, punk rock...
0:06:12 > 0:06:15# Listen to the silence... #
0:06:15 > 0:06:19..indie rock - all in less than a decade.
0:06:21 > 0:06:24And there's a direct connection to the rock LP.
0:06:26 > 0:06:29MUSIC: "Pretty Vacant" by Sex Pistols
0:06:31 > 0:06:33# We're so pretty, oh, so pretty... #
0:06:33 > 0:06:36Running around 25 minutes on each side,
0:06:36 > 0:06:39it gave us a chance to go deeper than the 3½-minute puppy hits
0:06:39 > 0:06:41that dominated the airwaves,
0:06:41 > 0:06:44to spend quality long-play time together.
0:06:44 > 0:06:48Ladies and gentlemen, let us examine and celebrate the era
0:06:48 > 0:06:51when the LP rocked and ruled the world
0:06:51 > 0:06:53at 33.3 revolutions per minute.
0:06:53 > 0:06:57And continues to do so. But we'll deal with that later.
0:06:57 > 0:07:00When you were buying albums, what were you looking for?
0:07:00 > 0:07:03What did you want from an album, Jeremy?
0:07:03 > 0:07:05Back then, I wasn't very musical,
0:07:05 > 0:07:08so I liked lyrics and I liked melody.
0:07:08 > 0:07:12A good melody was what I looked for, but, actually,
0:07:12 > 0:07:17back when I was buying a lot of albums, it's like...
0:07:17 > 0:07:19Today, kids talk about football teams.
0:07:19 > 0:07:21They all argue about football teams constantly.
0:07:21 > 0:07:24We were exactly the same with bands.
0:07:24 > 0:07:27So, I would buy everything by The Who, because I supported The Who,
0:07:27 > 0:07:30and Led Zep and the Stones - no, no, no!
0:07:30 > 0:07:34- Really?- No, absolutely. There's no WAY I would have a Led Zep album.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37- That is extraordinary. - No WAY I would have a Stones album.
0:07:37 > 0:07:39It was all Bowie and Roxy. At school, there'd be people
0:07:39 > 0:07:42in the Roxy camp, "Ferry is much cooler than Bowie."
0:07:42 > 0:07:44"No, no, Bowie's much cooler."
0:07:44 > 0:07:46I never had that. I liked everything.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49The only thing I get with you, once I bought an album by an artist,
0:07:49 > 0:07:52and sometimes they weren't very good. I would not admit that,
0:07:52 > 0:07:55not even to myself. I would think...
0:07:55 > 0:07:58The tell-tale phrase for... "What's the album like?"
0:07:58 > 0:08:02I'd go, "Oh, I've only heard some of it. There are some good tracks on it!"
0:08:02 > 0:08:04You may remember Fanx Ta-Ra by Sad Cafe?
0:08:04 > 0:08:07One of my favourite albums. Really, I'm very fond of it.
0:08:07 > 0:08:13Sad Cafe had a bit of a slithery slope down to My-Oh-My, and so on, but... "Superb! Superb!"
0:08:13 > 0:08:17Once you had nailed your flag to a particular band,
0:08:17 > 0:08:19you HAD to be loyal to them and, for me,
0:08:19 > 0:08:22I wasn't of the generation that listened to music communally -
0:08:22 > 0:08:25we didn't sit around and do that. I was from the tape generation,
0:08:25 > 0:08:28but I bought vinyl in a car-boot sale in Norwich in the mid-'90s,
0:08:28 > 0:08:30and I would listen to it on my dad's player,
0:08:30 > 0:08:34and it felt like this private experience. People would come in,
0:08:34 > 0:08:37"Oh, God, what do they think of what I'm listening to? What if it's terrible?"
0:08:37 > 0:08:40But you were saying, Stephen,
0:08:40 > 0:08:42about the clubbable thing of it,
0:08:42 > 0:08:46and this idea that it was generic and everyone had it. It wasn't.
0:08:46 > 0:08:50It was, kind of, underground, certainly, even by the time Bowie came along.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53People think he was a massive star and on television all the time.
0:08:53 > 0:08:56- It wasn't.- No, he struggled a long time to get to where he was
0:08:56 > 0:08:58but the good thing that happened, for me,
0:08:58 > 0:09:01when I got into Bowie in '72, when Ziggy Stardust came out,
0:09:01 > 0:09:05was there was this back catalogue that was there to dip into.
0:09:05 > 0:09:09Hunky Dory, which was only out six or nine months previously...
0:09:09 > 0:09:11- It had been deleted, in fact.- Yeah.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14And suddenly, you had this wealth of material to throw yourself into,
0:09:14 > 0:09:18and it was amazing. Like you said, melody is important.
0:09:18 > 0:09:22I think people sometimes get very snobby about "pop music"
0:09:22 > 0:09:25and, actually, my end of the rock that I love
0:09:25 > 0:09:28is the more pop influence, like Bowie and Bolan and Roxy.
0:09:28 > 0:09:33So, for me as a young teenager, that was something for me to really throw myself into.
0:09:33 > 0:09:37Did you make any missteps? Did Chicory Tip do it for you?
0:09:37 > 0:09:39Well, I did like the Sweet.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42I thought that Ballroom Blitz was a fantastic single,
0:09:42 > 0:09:47- and I loved all the glam rock - Glitter, the Sweet... - It was hard, though.
0:09:47 > 0:09:49Bowie was the only... and Roxy...but the albums...
0:09:49 > 0:09:54- Very few albums sprang out of glam, other than what you mentioned. - Exactly.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57And obviously, Bowie was very prolific at that time,
0:09:57 > 0:10:00so he was, for me, on a pedestal up there somewhere.
0:10:00 > 0:10:05Isn't it extraordinary being able to read biographies where you find out
0:10:05 > 0:10:07these people didn't know what they were doing?
0:10:07 > 0:10:09I thought everybody knew what they were doing.
0:10:09 > 0:10:13Didn't know what single to put out, had to be told by somebody else.
0:10:13 > 0:10:16Bowie also had a good lieutenant. Mick Ronson was an incredible guitar player.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19What's your favourite Bowie album?
0:10:19 > 0:10:20Well, to be honest with you,
0:10:20 > 0:10:24Hunky Dory most probably is my favourite Bowie album.
0:10:24 > 0:10:26That, actually, I think, along with Who's Next,
0:10:26 > 0:10:30is the only album ever recorded where I like every single track.
0:10:30 > 0:10:33There was always the turkey.
0:10:33 > 0:10:36We are going to try and focus and celebrate and be unapologetic about
0:10:36 > 0:10:38what we're calling a golden era, because it just might've been.
0:10:38 > 0:10:42Nobody looks back to Charlie Parker and says, "That silly, old-fashioned stuff."
0:10:42 > 0:10:46- There may have been, certainly in rock music, a golden era...- '73.- '71.
0:10:46 > 0:10:50You'd be surprised. If you look at what '71 released...
0:10:50 > 0:10:53But let's not go there for a second.
0:10:53 > 0:10:56But the idea that you were loyal to these things,
0:10:56 > 0:11:00what you wanted out of them, and yet, Bowie, if you went back,
0:11:00 > 0:11:03it comes as a great shock to me, The Laughing Gnome and all of that.
0:11:03 > 0:11:07The same with Elton John. You listen back to Elton's earliest albums, they're wonderful,
0:11:07 > 0:11:09but they don't necessarily stand the test of time.
0:11:09 > 0:11:14They sound quite dated, but you love the fact that he was doing those romances about America...
0:11:14 > 0:11:16- They're my favourite albums.- Yeah.
0:11:16 > 0:11:20But Elton, of course... I used to work in the same record shop as him, just after it,
0:11:20 > 0:11:24and he used to ask for the afternoons off to go and record those cover version albums.
0:11:24 > 0:11:29And there was a great version of Elton John singing Young, Gifted And Black. Young? Yes, you are.
0:11:29 > 0:11:33- Gifted? Yes, you are. I don't know about the black thing. - Was that in Wandsworth?- Yes.
0:11:33 > 0:11:35That's interesting, white guys singing,
0:11:35 > 0:11:39because, really, that's what rock is. It's white people - not exclusively -
0:11:39 > 0:11:42but white people trying to play black R&B, kind of, soul music.
0:11:42 > 0:11:45I wouldn't have that. I don't hear that.
0:11:45 > 0:11:47Well, the Who, the Stones...
0:11:47 > 0:11:52- What they did, though...- May I draw your attention to this? Supertramp.
0:11:52 > 0:11:54Would you stop giving your albums out?
0:11:54 > 0:11:58Again, unapologetically, and of course, we'll be dealing with other genres,
0:11:58 > 0:12:04but I think rock music may be purely a muscular white thing. I know it's a broad church,
0:12:04 > 0:12:08and we'll deal with that, but Deep Purple haven't got a black bone in their body.
0:12:08 > 0:12:12- But hang on a minute, did it not start...? - It's their take on a bluesy riff.
0:12:12 > 0:12:16It was the blues started it, then white guys were singing black music
0:12:16 > 0:12:18and selling it back to the Americans, is how it began,
0:12:18 > 0:12:21but it developed and by the mid-'70s, it had become entirely white.
0:12:21 > 0:12:25If you listen to Genesis or ELP, there isn't a black thing in there.
0:12:25 > 0:12:28Here's my first selection, and it's this.
0:12:28 > 0:12:32We're Only In It For The Money by the Mothers of Invention.
0:12:32 > 0:12:35Zappa's a hard sell sometimes, but this is not a hard sell.
0:12:35 > 0:12:37This is, literally, a work of genius.
0:12:37 > 0:12:39It was him biting the hand that fed him.
0:12:39 > 0:12:42It's anti-hippie, anti-authority, pro-Frank Zappa.
0:12:42 > 0:12:45It was one of the most inventive things you'll ever hear
0:12:45 > 0:12:49and leaves any mixed tape or remix mash-up in the dirt.
0:12:49 > 0:12:51One of the great works of art, from all of rock.
0:12:51 > 0:12:53We're Only In It For The Money.
0:12:53 > 0:12:56Now, ideally, the album was all about quality rather than quantity
0:12:56 > 0:13:00because on an album, there'd be, what, ten tracks or so? Sometimes just one long one,
0:13:00 > 0:13:05unless you were impatient old Napalm Death. Then, there'd be about 40,
0:13:05 > 0:13:10but how did this concept unfold? As usual, we look to the Quo.
0:13:13 > 0:13:16A lot of fun, that. In fact, you can buy that in the shops.
0:13:16 > 0:13:20- Actually, it's Status Quo. - Pipe down, Bruno.
0:13:20 > 0:13:22Your chart fun is for the kids.
0:13:24 > 0:13:27Us REAL music lovers knew that, to truly know a band,
0:13:27 > 0:13:30to get intimate with Joan Jett,
0:13:30 > 0:13:33to feel Morrissey's existential pain,
0:13:33 > 0:13:36to bathe in Beefheart's demented genius,
0:13:36 > 0:13:40then you had to let them lead you onto the sonic journey of the album.
0:13:40 > 0:13:43So, how do rock acts orchestrate an album?
0:13:43 > 0:13:49Was track one ALWAYS a fanfare to kick things off? How did they sequence all those songs?
0:13:50 > 0:13:53Firstly, solid old analogue had two sides.
0:13:53 > 0:13:57Springsteen famously began each side of Born To Run
0:13:57 > 0:14:00with an uplifting, optimistic song of escape
0:14:00 > 0:14:04and ended each side with a downbeat sad ode to defeat.
0:14:04 > 0:14:08So important was the pause to flick the album that some artists couldn't let it go.
0:14:08 > 0:14:13Halfway through early CD versions of his album, Full Moon Fever,
0:14:13 > 0:14:14Tom Petty actually makes this point.
0:14:14 > 0:14:16Hello, CD listeners.
0:14:16 > 0:14:21We've come to the point in this album where those listening on cassette or records
0:14:21 > 0:14:26will have to stand up, or sit down, and turn over the record.
0:14:26 > 0:14:30In fairness to those listeners, we'll now take a few seconds before we begin side two.
0:14:30 > 0:14:34Thank you. Here's side two.
0:14:34 > 0:14:37On modern listening devices,
0:14:37 > 0:14:40it's all too easy to skip a track with a bored click.
0:14:40 > 0:14:44But LPs demanded more reverence - to stick with it.
0:14:44 > 0:14:48To take the needle from the record was virtually sacrilege
0:14:48 > 0:14:52and, inevitably, that meant we sat through some really terrible music.
0:14:52 > 0:14:55"One for the album" was always a dubious accolade,
0:14:55 > 0:14:59but that's how we studied now-revered classics
0:14:59 > 0:15:02like Led Zeppelin's Kashmir, or Pink Floyd's Shine On You Crazy Diamond.
0:15:02 > 0:15:08You had to earn your rock stripes to go down the vinyl mines and bring back a nugget.
0:15:08 > 0:15:12When you invested your scarce cash on that carefully-chosen album,
0:15:12 > 0:15:16you can be sure you were going to listen to it all the way through,
0:15:16 > 0:15:19from the initial hiss of anticipation
0:15:19 > 0:15:22to the rhythmic ffft, ffft of the run-out groove.
0:15:22 > 0:15:26The odd thing is, there are a handful of albums
0:15:26 > 0:15:29where you don't have to skip a track,
0:15:29 > 0:15:32and the idea that, even though you make cases for them,
0:15:32 > 0:15:37that you played them all the way through, there's very few albums you can. Ziggy Stardust is probably one.
0:15:37 > 0:15:39But in your producing capacities, how do you sequence an album?
0:15:39 > 0:15:43Do you let the band dictate it, or do you say, "No, no. That is starting track"?
0:15:43 > 0:15:49Going back a few years, it used to be sometimes I would have quite a big influence on it with the band.
0:15:49 > 0:15:54We'd discuss it while we were making the record and think, "This'd be a great track to start off with."
0:15:54 > 0:16:00- Is it always a hit?- Not always. Sometimes you want that call to arms, as it were - the first track.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03I'm thinking, Headmaster Ritual for The Smiths on Meat Is Murder.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06It seemed to us, while we were making that record,
0:16:06 > 0:16:09that that was the one to kick off the album with.
0:16:09 > 0:16:12I'm a great believer in bringing things down at the end.
0:16:12 > 0:16:15I just saw in that little clip about Springsteen,
0:16:15 > 0:16:19likes to bring everything down. There's quite a few albums I worked on where the last track on the album
0:16:19 > 0:16:23- is more the mellow, kind of, cooling down...- Rock 'n' Roll Suicide.
0:16:23 > 0:16:27You've taken everyone for the journey and you're just bringing them down and out at the end.
0:16:27 > 0:16:30So I still, to this day, tend to do that on a lot of records.
0:16:30 > 0:16:32Do you try to encourage people not to shoot their bolt by putting
0:16:32 > 0:16:34the best track at the beginning? Usually, nowadays,
0:16:34 > 0:16:37you get a CD and you put it on and you think, "Oh, that is as good as it's going to get,"
0:16:37 > 0:16:39maybe listen to the first three songs.
0:16:39 > 0:16:43There's loads of albums I never got round to side two. I didn't want to be disappointed.
0:16:43 > 0:16:45Terrible thing to say! Side one of Moondance,
0:16:45 > 0:16:49I didn't play side two until about 19...99!
0:16:49 > 0:16:52I think the reward for... Oh, sorry.
0:16:52 > 0:16:57No, I was thinking, with an album, the most important thing is...
0:16:57 > 0:17:01What made it different then is, I would often put headphones on,
0:17:01 > 0:17:03light a joss stick - you always had to do that - and sit and listen.
0:17:03 > 0:17:07- Yeah, listen, that's the thing. - Just listen. Nowadays, I've noticed
0:17:07 > 0:17:09kids listen to music while doing something else.
0:17:09 > 0:17:14No, no, shut up! And it's mostly rubbish. But I would sit...
0:17:14 > 0:17:16Like Selling England By The Pound, you'd put it on and listen -
0:17:16 > 0:17:18"Can you tell me where my country lies,
0:17:18 > 0:17:21"cried the unicorn to his true love's eyes..." What do they MEAN?!
0:17:21 > 0:17:24I know, you would agonise a little on that, perhaps.
0:17:24 > 0:17:27But that was the difference, I think, with albums then, to now,
0:17:27 > 0:17:30Albums - you listened.
0:17:30 > 0:17:32And the reward for patience, as well,
0:17:32 > 0:17:35and that on an album, you had the space for the entire band
0:17:35 > 0:17:37to play out its brain, even if they couldn't write songs.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39You would sometimes have songs by the drummer,
0:17:39 > 0:17:42- who maybe wasn't that good. - Boris The Spider...
0:17:42 > 0:17:45And that was a great thing, because in a way,
0:17:45 > 0:17:49you grew to love the psychology of the band, in all its patchiness,
0:17:49 > 0:17:52even its failures. You felt protective over its failures.
0:17:52 > 0:17:55And you had to listen to Smile Away on Ram, which I've always hated.
0:17:55 > 0:18:00But I will still listen to it, when I listen to Ram, because it's there, you know.
0:18:00 > 0:18:02And today, it is in the DNA of all of us.
0:18:02 > 0:18:05I know if I am in someone's car and they are playing
0:18:05 > 0:18:08a CD of an album I know, but they've put it together themselves,
0:18:08 > 0:18:12if a certain track doesn't follow a certain track, I'll think, "Oh! The Earth just shook."
0:18:12 > 0:18:15After a while, you cannot see an album by any other way
0:18:15 > 0:18:17than it was arranged at the time.
0:18:17 > 0:18:22And that's why when they started putting extra tracks on the CDs - no, that was the body of work,
0:18:22 > 0:18:25it doesn't need all these extra things laid on top of it.
0:18:25 > 0:18:28And I don't know whether, again, the pressure of a CD to fill up
0:18:28 > 0:18:31that space, all right, they CAN put 80 minutes on - should they?
0:18:31 > 0:18:34They shouldn't. I think that is a trap a lot of people fell into.
0:18:34 > 0:18:39I mean, we know the optimum, kind of, time for an album normally
0:18:39 > 0:18:41is about 40 minutes - 20 minutes each side.
0:18:41 > 0:18:45The reason for that was when they were mastering the records, if they went much longer than that,
0:18:45 > 0:18:48- then the bass end would be rolled off.- Oh, is that right?- Yeah.
0:18:48 > 0:18:51- And so your record would end up sounding quieter and with less bass. - Why would that happen?
0:18:51 > 0:18:54Because it's literally the thickness of the groove,
0:18:54 > 0:18:56the more bass you go, the deeper the cut. Oh, I see.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59So there would be a time you'd say,
0:18:59 > 0:19:01OK, if we go much further than this...
0:19:01 > 0:19:04I remember, Costello did an album with ten tracks a side,
0:19:04 > 0:19:07the Get Happy album, and it was really a thin-sounding record,
0:19:07 > 0:19:09because to get that many tracks onto the record...
0:19:09 > 0:19:13- Do you remember the K-Tel albums, the compilation albums? - Yes, of course.
0:19:13 > 0:19:16And they all sounded quieter and tinnier than the real album.
0:19:16 > 0:19:18- Stretched thin. - It's cos they were so condensed.
0:19:18 > 0:19:20This is my favourite album of all time. I won't put it up on the wall,
0:19:20 > 0:19:23because I'm saving this for another time.
0:19:23 > 0:19:25This, Todd Rundgren's A Wizard, A True Star,
0:19:25 > 0:19:28very much the spin-off of that album, similar album.
0:19:28 > 0:19:31And he puts instructions on the inside of how loud you should
0:19:31 > 0:19:34listen to it, because he tries to put on as much music as he can.
0:19:34 > 0:19:38And an LP, you can get fetishistic about it.
0:19:38 > 0:19:40Today, the assumption is they were always scratched,
0:19:40 > 0:19:44but you really looked after them, as well, I always held it by the edges.
0:19:44 > 0:19:48It wasn't just the album as well, but the equipment you played it on.
0:19:48 > 0:19:52I now know, even though many, many years have gone by,
0:19:52 > 0:19:55I had a Garrard 86SB turntable with a Shure MD75 turntable,
0:19:55 > 0:19:59a Teleton amp and Marsden Hall speakers.
0:19:59 > 0:20:03And then I upgraded to Akai. Because it was all... I had no idea
0:20:03 > 0:20:05what I was talking about, I've not got an ear like you.
0:20:05 > 0:20:09That idea of, you know, you had the weights at the back, I've never understood that.
0:20:09 > 0:20:11- Is that the valve amplifiers? - Yes, valve amplifiers, pre-amps,
0:20:11 > 0:20:14I couldn't wait to get a record on, I didn't do the weight at the back,
0:20:14 > 0:20:17I never had that little brush going along, cleaning the record.
0:20:17 > 0:20:22- Did you ever stick a penny on the... - Stick a penny on it, yes. - To keep it in.
0:20:22 > 0:20:26- With some turntables, you used to tune it so it was spinning at exactly 33 rpm.- No!
0:20:26 > 0:20:29There was a little red light on the actual turntable to make sure it was playing...
0:20:29 > 0:20:35The first time The Snow Goose came out, I listened to that, by mistake, at 45 rpm.
0:20:35 > 0:20:39And didn't know until I'd listened... These guys!
0:20:39 > 0:20:43As an old rock critic myself, very famous story, the Melody Maker
0:20:43 > 0:20:48were sent John Lennon's album on two acetates, one-sided.
0:20:48 > 0:20:53The other side just had tone on. "Dooooooo!" They reviewed it.
0:20:53 > 0:20:57They reviewed it, they said, "What John's doing here is very interesting, sonically."
0:20:57 > 0:20:59So, yeah, I think like most great art,
0:20:59 > 0:21:02not everyone knows entirely what they are doing.
0:21:02 > 0:21:05But unlike the ghostly mp3 and the fickle, brittle CD,
0:21:05 > 0:21:08the vinyl album experience was tactile,
0:21:08 > 0:21:11visual, satisfying, almost fetishistic.
0:21:11 > 0:21:14And we most definitely judged an LP by its cover.
0:21:20 > 0:21:22The LP cover gave every group
0:21:22 > 0:21:25a 12-and-a-quarter square inch blank canvas
0:21:25 > 0:21:28onto which they could project their vision, their fantasies,
0:21:28 > 0:21:30their budget.
0:21:30 > 0:21:32To begin with, most rock album covers featured
0:21:32 > 0:21:35a record company approved snap of the band.
0:21:35 > 0:21:40Then, pop artist Peter Blake's Sgt Pepper album sleeve came out and...
0:21:40 > 0:21:41Well, you know the rest.
0:21:45 > 0:21:47Record shops became like art galleries.
0:21:47 > 0:21:50Andy Warhol slapped a peelable banana
0:21:50 > 0:21:52on the Velvet Underground's album.
0:21:52 > 0:21:54Many found it suggestive!
0:21:54 > 0:21:58Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon went minimal and mysterious.
0:21:58 > 0:22:02Delia Smith baked the cake for the Rolling Stones album, Let It Bleed.
0:22:02 > 0:22:06And Mick and the boys went a little bit further for their Sticky Fingers album cover,
0:22:06 > 0:22:12which even had a real zip, beckoning the listener to relive some kind of intimate backstage experience.
0:22:13 > 0:22:17Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention parodied Sgt Pepper.
0:22:17 > 0:22:21But I, like others, was more mesmerised by the band's bonkers appearance,
0:22:21 > 0:22:26wondering if I could sport a similar Californian hippy look as a British teenager.
0:22:28 > 0:22:32You see, covers were so important. You studied and scrutinised them,
0:22:32 > 0:22:34particularly the more obscure bands.
0:22:34 > 0:22:37Because these renegade heads were never going to appear
0:22:37 > 0:22:41on The Val Doonican Show and they didn't feature in Smash Hits.
0:22:41 > 0:22:43MUSIC: "Hocus Pocus" by Focus
0:22:43 > 0:22:48YODELLING
0:22:48 > 0:22:51The album artwork, particularly the gatefold sleeve,
0:22:51 > 0:22:54was a true gateway to their mindscape.
0:22:56 > 0:22:57America...
0:22:57 > 0:23:01is pregnant with promise and anticipation,
0:23:01 > 0:23:06but is murdered by the hand of the inevitable.
0:23:06 > 0:23:11Yeah, what he said. To be truthful, the album cover could go very wrong.
0:23:11 > 0:23:15Common mistakes included the "trapped in time poodle" portrait,
0:23:15 > 0:23:17the "band in a bad mood" genre,
0:23:17 > 0:23:19sexist nonsense,
0:23:19 > 0:23:21and sometimes, they were just out-and-out potty.
0:23:21 > 0:23:26Let's face it, nobody really debates a CD sleeve these days.
0:23:26 > 0:23:29And no hippy ever set out their Rizlas on a digital booklet.
0:23:31 > 0:23:33The album cover, a programme in itself.
0:23:33 > 0:23:37But let me just sum up the glory of it with one example.
0:23:37 > 0:23:39Not a great album, this is the Welsh group, Man.
0:23:39 > 0:23:43- Starts with a siren, as I recall, that one.- Be Good To Yourself At Least Once a Day.
0:23:43 > 0:23:46I would forgive this album anything,
0:23:46 > 0:23:48because when you open it up, it goes...
0:23:48 > 0:23:50- Look at that!- Oh, wow.- Look at that.
0:23:50 > 0:23:54Now, that is not your CD. A map of Wales.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57Is it an accurate map of Wales, or is it their own take on Wales?
0:23:57 > 0:23:59Do you know, I don't know!
0:23:59 > 0:24:03I was too impressed by that. They could have put Paris in there. I'm just happy it did that.
0:24:03 > 0:24:08Kate, album covers, of course, no reflection of the music within, but it helped.
0:24:08 > 0:24:13Well, it's a funny thing, because they were almost, like, talismanic or something.
0:24:13 > 0:24:15The fact that you are listening to music at the same time,
0:24:15 > 0:24:18it became almost a 3-D experience, looking at the picture.
0:24:18 > 0:24:21Because you couldn't escape it, because you had the record on and
0:24:21 > 0:24:24the whole thing, your senses were kind of magnified by one another.
0:24:24 > 0:24:26The ones that got me, growing up, were the ones that scared me.
0:24:26 > 0:24:30- Go on.- Well, there was one cover of a Blood, Sweat and Tears album
0:24:30 > 0:24:34- called The Child is Father of the Man.- Yes, with the...
0:24:34 > 0:24:36Which was like mini versions, Mini Me's!
0:24:36 > 0:24:38Yes, they were little, tiny versions of the band.
0:24:38 > 0:24:41They had a child and they would superimpose their own head.
0:24:41 > 0:24:46That was horrific. There was another one, the Toe Fat album, which was just the big toe on a head.
0:24:46 > 0:24:49Instead of a head, there was a big toe.
0:24:49 > 0:24:54But the idea of the cover being, in itself, something.
0:24:54 > 0:24:56It's that thing, and I'm sure you did it with Bowie,
0:24:56 > 0:25:00it's reading everything, down to being printed by the McNeill Press of London.
0:25:00 > 0:25:02That's exactly what I was going to talk about,
0:25:02 > 0:25:05it's not just the front cover, it's the back cover.
0:25:05 > 0:25:09And for me, it was reading all these lists of the studios
0:25:09 > 0:25:11and the producers and the engineers and things,
0:25:11 > 0:25:15and without even realising, I was soaking it all up, and I wanted to...
0:25:15 > 0:25:17Later on, that is fortunately where I went into myself,
0:25:17 > 0:25:21but it was reading this - "Who is this Tony Visconti guy?"
0:25:21 > 0:25:23He's made some good records, you know. This kind of thing.
0:25:23 > 0:25:27So when you have a 12-inch cover, not only does the art look good,
0:25:27 > 0:25:30but also the credits are given a chance to shine.
0:25:30 > 0:25:33And I always thought it was directly between me and the artist,
0:25:33 > 0:25:35I didn't know about art directors or even record companies would've,
0:25:35 > 0:25:39you know, sometimes the band would be the last to see the cover.
0:25:39 > 0:25:41I actually thought, this is terrific,
0:25:41 > 0:25:45something as iconic as the Ziggy Stardust cover, long before it became a shrine,
0:25:45 > 0:25:49I thought, "Where is that? Why couldn't I have been walking down that road?"
0:25:49 > 0:25:51I was looking at album covers the other day. Some of them are fantastic,
0:25:51 > 0:25:56Wish You Were Here, I thought was fantastic, Quadrophenia, Tommy - The Who's version of it.
0:25:56 > 0:26:00They are all works of art. I've often thought about getting album covers
0:26:00 > 0:26:04and having an entire wall of the house decorated in album covers,
0:26:04 > 0:26:06- because they're brilliant, some of them.- Beautiful things.
0:26:06 > 0:26:08There was a Clifford T Ward one, where it was him
0:26:08 > 0:26:12at the piano and then a beautiful lady with very long, blonde hair, sitting at the piano stool.
0:26:12 > 0:26:15- Then you turned it over and it was a lovely Afghan hound!- Really?
0:26:15 > 0:26:19Well, the first Black Sabbath album, which again, has now,
0:26:19 > 0:26:24like all these things, become part of the scenery, with that odd, broken-down mill, looks like,
0:26:24 > 0:26:27and a woman with a green face looking out from behind the trees,
0:26:27 > 0:26:32nobody has ever found who that model is, nobody knows who she is. She was hired for the day
0:26:32 > 0:26:35and you'd think she could probably earn a good touring circuit
0:26:35 > 0:26:38behind the woman on the Black Sabbath cover. Nobody knows who that woman is.
0:26:38 > 0:26:42Just, though, before we celebrate them too much, sometimes,
0:26:42 > 0:26:46the titling of an album, for me, goes very, very wrong.
0:26:46 > 0:26:50Van Der Graaf Generator may have a reason for calling their album
0:26:50 > 0:26:55H To He Who Am The Only One, but that's a bad album title!
0:26:55 > 0:27:00Stephen, does the title come last, or does it matter to the artist?
0:27:00 > 0:27:02I think the title does matter quite a lot.
0:27:02 > 0:27:05Obviously, I had the great fortune in working with The Smiths
0:27:05 > 0:27:10and I know Morrissey put a lot of thought into what the album was going to be called.
0:27:10 > 0:27:15And so, I think it is something that bands should take really seriously.
0:27:15 > 0:27:19You don't want to put out a great album, great artwork and really mess up with the album title.
0:27:19 > 0:27:23They sometimes change halfway through. Famously, the Beatles' Revolver
0:27:23 > 0:27:28was called Abracadabra, right up until virtually it came out, then they changed it to Revolver.
0:27:28 > 0:27:31- Wasn't Abbey Road called Everest or something?- That's right.
0:27:31 > 0:27:35They wanted to go to Everest to do a photo shoot, but then they couldn't be arsed!
0:27:35 > 0:27:39And so they said, "Let's just go outside and call it Abbey Road."
0:27:39 > 0:27:41It's true, that's why they did that.
0:27:41 > 0:27:44I think the first Morrissey record I worked on, the first solo record,
0:27:44 > 0:27:46which was called Viva Hate, in the end. I've got a feeling,
0:27:46 > 0:27:49at one point, it was going to be called Education In Reverse.
0:27:49 > 0:27:52And in fact, that is what is scratched in the...
0:27:52 > 0:27:56You know there's the scratched message in the middle
0:27:56 > 0:27:59of the pressing? I think that's "Education In Reverse".
0:27:59 > 0:28:01Again, another great fetishistic angle,
0:28:01 > 0:28:04looking even to what they wrote in the run-out grooves.
0:28:04 > 0:28:07Famously, Led Zeppelin III, I think,
0:28:07 > 0:28:10has got "Do What Thou Wilt", which is an Aleister Crowley quote,
0:28:10 > 0:28:13and collectors these days all look to see if that is in there.
0:28:13 > 0:28:15"A Porky Prime Cut" used to be on many, many of them.
0:28:15 > 0:28:19But there was no aspect to the LP, from cover to label,
0:28:19 > 0:28:22and let's be honest here, even the smell of them...
0:28:22 > 0:28:24I've opened a few records... "There it is!
0:28:24 > 0:28:27"That's probably his aftershave," or whatever. I used to smell albums, too.
0:28:27 > 0:28:31And if people think this is a little creepy,
0:28:31 > 0:28:34then they are missing the whole idea of the indulgence
0:28:34 > 0:28:36and connection of the things, which the cover -
0:28:36 > 0:28:40and let's face it, you can put them on your head and look like the Pope's mitre,
0:28:40 > 0:28:43there was always that - the cover, and these ones around us,
0:28:43 > 0:28:46randomly selected from a beautiful, beautiful era,
0:28:46 > 0:28:50where that took a lot of patience and a lot of artwork.
0:28:50 > 0:28:52And that's why I can't actually think of any really...
0:28:52 > 0:28:54And I'm really sitting here thinking,
0:28:54 > 0:28:57- I can't think of any bad album titles.- There's one over there!
0:28:57 > 0:29:01George Michael - Listen Without Prejudice, Volume 1. Seriously?
0:29:01 > 0:29:05- I love that name.- It's awful! - I love the Volume 1, as well, because it's, sort of, so pompous.
0:29:05 > 0:29:08If he had meant it to be preposterous, that's fine.
0:29:08 > 0:29:11Album covers as well, I'm struggling really to think of ones
0:29:11 > 0:29:13that you just think, "Oh, that was a bit dull."
0:29:13 > 0:29:15Led Zep had one which came in a brown paper bag.
0:29:15 > 0:29:18In Through The Out Door. Of course, Led Zeppelin III had
0:29:18 > 0:29:21a little wheel you could turn and the cover turned beneath it.
0:29:21 > 0:29:25Wonderful covers, all of them, you cannot imagine them separate from those covers.
0:29:25 > 0:29:30- Many are right shockers, too. - My personal favourite is The Wailers' Catch a Fire, the lighter.
0:29:30 > 0:29:33- What a beautiful cover that is. - Big Zippo lighter.- Fantastic.
0:29:33 > 0:29:36And now they all fetch real top prices.
0:29:36 > 0:29:39But rock, of course, never has just been about the music.
0:29:39 > 0:29:41It's also about the attitude, of course it is.
0:29:41 > 0:29:45The pose, the empowerment - in short, it's about you.
0:29:45 > 0:29:48And if your Motorhead T-shirt freaks out your mum along the way,
0:29:48 > 0:29:50well, bonus!
0:29:53 > 0:29:55# People try to put us down
0:29:55 > 0:29:58# Talking 'bout my generation... #
0:29:58 > 0:29:59From its earliest days,
0:29:59 > 0:30:03the rock album was all about sticking it to The Man...man!
0:30:03 > 0:30:08By their very nature, these LPs were rebellious, rude, filthy, badly behaved.
0:30:08 > 0:30:13Albums were an extended call to arms, some overtly political.
0:30:13 > 0:30:18# All we are saying is give peace a chance. #
0:30:20 > 0:30:25# School's out for summer... #
0:30:25 > 0:30:28But most were just raw, wild, rock rebellion.
0:30:28 > 0:30:31According to Mary Whitehouse, Alice Cooper's School's Out meant
0:30:31 > 0:30:35that, "Millions of young people are now imbibing a philosophy
0:30:35 > 0:30:37"of violence and anarchy." Yeah, that's the point, Mary.
0:30:37 > 0:30:39Rock rebellion. Get it?
0:30:39 > 0:30:44Your performances used to end up with you smashing all your equipment,
0:30:44 > 0:30:47- you were smashing hotel rooms on every tour...- All lies!
0:30:47 > 0:30:48Not a word of truth.
0:30:51 > 0:30:57Annoying the great and the good was a badge of honour.
0:30:57 > 0:31:00And the decade of discontent was the 1970s.
0:31:00 > 0:31:03It's probably hard for Generation X-Factor to believe,
0:31:03 > 0:31:06but rock musicians didn't welcome the Queen's Jubilee
0:31:06 > 0:31:10as an opportunity to stage some sycophantic concert.
0:31:10 > 0:31:12# God save the Queen... #
0:31:12 > 0:31:15Instead, they stuck two fingers up to the Palace. And politicians.
0:31:15 > 0:31:20And the media. It was rock against the establishment.
0:31:22 > 0:31:24Music felt more political.
0:31:26 > 0:31:28# London calling to the far away towns... #
0:31:28 > 0:31:31Every album was culturally calibrated.
0:31:31 > 0:31:35To spot someone carrying a Clash album was to wink at a fellow spy,
0:31:35 > 0:31:39a fellow societal saboteur, if you will. Don't talk to us about Queen!
0:31:39 > 0:31:44For a very brief moment, the rock album really did seem to threaten
0:31:44 > 0:31:48to take its revolutions from the turntable out onto the streets.
0:31:48 > 0:31:51# No more heroes any more... #
0:31:56 > 0:31:59Sometimes it's easier to lapse into albums that are corny,
0:31:59 > 0:32:04but mean a lot to you, and we're trying to underpin some of it, you know, be deflective about it.
0:32:04 > 0:32:06My second selection for the Wall Of Sound behind us,
0:32:06 > 0:32:09Joni Mitchell's The Hissing of Summer Lawns.
0:32:09 > 0:32:12If anyone thinks this whole rock 'n' roll experiment has been
0:32:12 > 0:32:16pinheads larking around, we can give them this. Style, grace, genius.
0:32:16 > 0:32:18That's the second one.
0:32:18 > 0:32:23Jeremy, that whole package there was about the attitude of rock, the rebellion of it.
0:32:23 > 0:32:28Despite your occasional outrages, you are looked at as, kind of, a pillar of the establishment.
0:32:28 > 0:32:31- Where's that place, Chipping whatsit, you live?- Chipping Norton.
0:32:31 > 0:32:34Is it possible, were you ever a defiant, snotty youth?
0:32:34 > 0:32:36I mean, I was at a public school,
0:32:36 > 0:32:39I was away and everybody's parents were estate agents.
0:32:39 > 0:32:43And I remember, vividly, and it shaped my whole life,
0:32:43 > 0:32:46that and listening to Dark Side of the Moon, was,
0:32:46 > 0:32:49I was reading Melody Maker and I was supposed to be listening to some dreary
0:32:49 > 0:32:52lesson on economics, and there was a photograph, I can picture it now,
0:32:52 > 0:32:57of Robert Plant stepping off a Led Zep-liveried plane.
0:32:57 > 0:33:01I wasn't a Led Zep fan, but he was stepping off it, and coming down
0:33:01 > 0:33:05the stairs behind him was all manner of rock 'n' roll flotsam and jetsam.
0:33:05 > 0:33:07And I just remember thinking,
0:33:07 > 0:33:12"What in the name of all that's holy has been going on on that plane?"
0:33:12 > 0:33:15And how do I get to be on a plane like that?
0:33:15 > 0:33:20And my life was given over to creating a life where
0:33:20 > 0:33:23I could live like I assumed Robert Plant lived.
0:33:23 > 0:33:26I just, again, it was the attitude of these guys...
0:33:26 > 0:33:30Well, I had a problem with the hair, because it just grew out, until it was about out here
0:33:30 > 0:33:33before gravity got hold of it and brought it down where I wanted it.
0:33:33 > 0:33:37Then I would be told to get my hair cut and it was a nightmare. It would boing back up again.
0:33:37 > 0:33:41But the attitude of rock 'n' roll then was enormously important.
0:33:41 > 0:33:43The importance of what you're saying there,
0:33:43 > 0:33:46and not that we are trying to convert people,
0:33:46 > 0:33:49either you get it or you don't, and I don't envy those who don't.
0:33:49 > 0:33:55But the idea that, at any time, music could have been a subculture rather than... You know,
0:33:55 > 0:33:57we live in an age where Hawkwind are on the new Ford advert!
0:33:57 > 0:34:04The idea that it was secret, that it meant that much and that this lifestyle wasn't aspirational,
0:34:04 > 0:34:11it was mysterious and there was no other way in, other than by getting into the rock world.
0:34:11 > 0:34:14I was never convinced by the idea of rebelling against your parents,
0:34:14 > 0:34:18because I was from the generation whose parents had all the good music to begin with,
0:34:18 > 0:34:22so there wasn't that sense of... And also, it always annoyed me, this idea that rock attitude was based
0:34:22 > 0:34:25in smashing your instruments up, rather than playing them properly.
0:34:25 > 0:34:27- I never got that. - I don't understand that!
0:34:27 > 0:34:30I mean, people hate John McLaughlin or whatever,
0:34:30 > 0:34:34because he can play his guitar. Well, surely combining a violin and a doubleneck guitar and doing
0:34:34 > 0:34:38things in 20/16 time is, sort of, revolutionary, in its own way.
0:34:38 > 0:34:42- Doncaster man, wasn't he, John McLaughlin?- I think so, yeah. - Same as me.
0:34:42 > 0:34:47John Parr, John McLaughlin and me - what a contribution Doncaster has made!
0:34:47 > 0:34:50I must say, one of my finest writing moments was when they were
0:34:50 > 0:34:55- all devotees of Sri Chinmoy, wasn't that the faith for a while?- Shakti.
0:34:55 > 0:34:59You know, Santana and McLaughlin and all the leading lights did a night at the Rainbow,
0:34:59 > 0:35:02and the headline I gave it was, "A Clean Chinmoy Sweep".
0:35:02 > 0:35:05Which, you know, all our yesterdays, at the NME.
0:35:05 > 0:35:10Stephen, of course, you really still carry a torch for punk rock,
0:35:10 > 0:35:14so obviously, music and lifestyle were like that for you, yeah?
0:35:14 > 0:35:17Absolutely. I mean, obviously, with the initial thing of getting into the glam rock thing,
0:35:17 > 0:35:21then I got into prog rock for a while. The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway was one of my albums
0:35:21 > 0:35:24- that I was...- That's a hard listen! That's a hard one, well done.
0:35:24 > 0:35:27Got into that for a little bit, then the punk thing happened
0:35:27 > 0:35:32- and basically, I just loved it. I threw myself into it, lock, stock and barrel.- The Clash's first album.
0:35:32 > 0:35:35- Cracking album.- Brilliant. - And Rattus Norvegicus, the first Stranglers album.
0:35:35 > 0:35:37- I know it's not strictly "punk" perhaps...- Yes, it is.
0:35:37 > 0:35:40But I loved the attitude of it, and I thought Martin Rushent,
0:35:40 > 0:35:43who produced that album and also produced the Buzzcocks, again,
0:35:43 > 0:35:46another producer's name that I learned from reading album sleeves,
0:35:46 > 0:35:52was a genius. And I just kind of... I remember not really going out
0:35:52 > 0:35:56and kind of dyeing my hair and putting needles through my nose or anything like that,
0:35:56 > 0:36:01but I just loved the idea of going to see gigs, going to the Marquee
0:36:01 > 0:36:04and places like that. And, you know, just...
0:36:04 > 0:36:08Recording this programme, we're just a spit from where the Roxy club was, just around the corner.
0:36:08 > 0:36:11And for someone who was involved in punk rock,
0:36:11 > 0:36:13for me, it was just getting involved in rock.
0:36:13 > 0:36:16It was a way just to suddenly think, "I might be able to do this!
0:36:16 > 0:36:20"It looks like this racket is going to actually... One day I might get to meet Frank Zappa!"
0:36:20 > 0:36:23The idea that it was all political somehow is not true either.
0:36:23 > 0:36:26And this nonsense year zero approach everyone has now adopted
0:36:26 > 0:36:28and said punk was about this and punk was about that.
0:36:28 > 0:36:31- At the time, it just felt terrific. - It suited the moment.
0:36:31 > 0:36:34Those pictures we saw there of policemen with tall helmets,
0:36:34 > 0:36:38hitting miners on the head. It all fitted, it was bang on.
0:36:38 > 0:36:40And you know what? It's extraordinary to think,
0:36:40 > 0:36:43given how the last three decades have panned out for music,
0:36:43 > 0:36:47that between Woodstock and the Sex Pistols album is seven years.
0:36:47 > 0:36:49And if you think about what happened in the meantime -
0:36:49 > 0:36:55virtually everything. It's just seven years. It's '69 to '76.
0:36:55 > 0:37:00And the absolute explosion of things being pulled from the air in that time,
0:37:00 > 0:37:03and that's why you shouldn't shrink from saying there could have been a golden age,
0:37:03 > 0:37:07just like there was in movies, as there can be in literature. That period, you say - "What?"
0:37:07 > 0:37:11Punk wasn't a full stop. It was a natural progression of all these things.
0:37:11 > 0:37:14- But look what we ended up... Sorry.- It never stopped.
0:37:14 > 0:37:17You had the glam, the prog, the punk, then it was, like,
0:37:17 > 0:37:20the ska revival came out pretty quickly...
0:37:20 > 0:37:22Soft rock, krautrock, you know.
0:37:22 > 0:37:25And then the New Romantics thing, you know, you couldn't stand still.
0:37:25 > 0:37:28They always say, the reason punks say they were bored is
0:37:28 > 0:37:30because no great new musical genre had been forged within months,
0:37:30 > 0:37:33- so no wonder they said that. - Just hadn't been done before.
0:37:33 > 0:37:36Yes, of course hip-hop and everything else, but that ferment,
0:37:36 > 0:37:40that period between Woodstock and the Sex Pistols - huh?
0:37:40 > 0:37:44It's really interesting that you moved from liking glam into punk,
0:37:44 > 0:37:47because in my mind, those two things are sort of opposites, almost.
0:37:47 > 0:37:49Do you know why? Did you just grow up, or..?
0:37:49 > 0:37:51Bowie and Lou Reed were huge influences on...
0:37:51 > 0:37:54I'd say they are not opposites, they're very much of a piece.
0:37:54 > 0:37:57No, cos I did that, without even going through the Bowie thing.
0:37:57 > 0:38:01I still DO love glam. And prog rock and so on,
0:38:01 > 0:38:04and then really got into The Clash, most of all.
0:38:04 > 0:38:08Actually, I liked the Pistols, too, but I really, really did like...
0:38:08 > 0:38:12Because it was like somehow, when you were watching Orgreave,
0:38:12 > 0:38:15or whatever strike was going on at the time,
0:38:15 > 0:38:18Grunwick - with the photographic dispute,
0:38:18 > 0:38:22and you can't really be listening to, you know, Camel.
0:38:22 > 0:38:23So you really needed the Pistols on.
0:38:23 > 0:38:27That in itself - and I'm not a great one for the sociological
0:38:27 > 0:38:30side of music, because it's in your heart, and it's about you,
0:38:30 > 0:38:32and it can be any time, anywhere, but, that said,
0:38:32 > 0:38:34the depoliticising of music now,
0:38:34 > 0:38:37the idea that we live in an age where groups would celebrate...
0:38:37 > 0:38:40any amount of establishment things,
0:38:40 > 0:38:43I do think the corporate dead hand has probably...
0:38:43 > 0:38:47That's where I disagree with you. I really do believe that music is of the moment, of the time, and
0:38:47 > 0:38:50you can't listen to certain songs in certain places at certain times.
0:38:50 > 0:38:53- Well, you can, but... - My son will listen to... - It doesn't sound quite right.
0:38:53 > 0:38:56Look at Nick Drake. Nick Drake didn't sell an album in his time.
0:38:56 > 0:38:59You cannot get a bigger figurehead now than Nick Drake.
0:38:59 > 0:39:03Anyway, in the iTunes era, there's almost no such thing as a rarity.
0:39:03 > 0:39:07Things might take 15 seconds to download - might be a rarity, that!
0:39:07 > 0:39:12But back in black-and-white, we spent months looking for the first Velvet Underground
0:39:12 > 0:39:15album or something - anything - by Todd Rundgren.
0:39:15 > 0:39:18Nothing said 'cool' like an import - those thicker sleeves,
0:39:18 > 0:39:21the American way, and nothing was more satisfying than having
0:39:21 > 0:39:24a spare copy of a limited release.
0:39:28 > 0:39:32Back in the ancient analogue days, pre-internet and pre-MP3s,
0:39:32 > 0:39:36unearthing a really rare rock album or the kudos of knowing
0:39:36 > 0:39:40the details of some track three on a side two, gave you tremendous
0:39:40 > 0:39:42hipster cachet.
0:39:42 > 0:39:44MUSIC: "Paradise By The Dashboard Light" by Meatloaf
0:39:47 > 0:39:51For example, despite selling 43 million copies worldwide,
0:39:54 > 0:39:57the Meat Loaf and motorbike epic that is Bat Out Of Hell
0:39:57 > 0:40:00is rightly scorned by the music press.
0:40:02 > 0:40:06But study the sleeve notes and you'll see it was produced
0:40:06 > 0:40:08by super-hip, genius maverick Todd Rundgren.
0:40:11 > 0:40:15On the album Goodbye Cream, who was this L'Angelo Misterioso who played guitar?
0:40:18 > 0:40:20Well, we found out that was George Harrison.
0:40:23 > 0:40:26This trend for uncredited appearances on LPs led to
0:40:26 > 0:40:30an infamous album in 1969, when Rolling Stone magazine
0:40:30 > 0:40:33announced they'd heard exciting rumours of the ultimate
0:40:33 > 0:40:37uncredited supergroup - a line-up that included Jagger, Lennon,
0:40:37 > 0:40:40McCartney, and Bob Dylan, and they'd all recorded an album
0:40:40 > 0:40:42under the name the Masked Marauders.
0:40:42 > 0:40:44It turned out to be all balls,
0:40:44 > 0:40:48but the rumour created such a lust for the actual LP, that the
0:40:48 > 0:40:51magazine hired a skiffle band and released one, anyway.
0:40:51 > 0:40:54It sold 100,000 copies to gullible groovers!
0:40:56 > 0:41:00Then there are some crackpot albums that ARE by musical superstars,
0:41:00 > 0:41:03which set out to undermine our expectations.
0:41:03 > 0:41:07At his peak, Lou Reed released an album called Metal Machine Music,
0:41:07 > 0:41:10four sides of unlistenable electronic feedback.
0:41:13 > 0:41:16Rock LPs were always an odd old odyssey.
0:41:16 > 0:41:20We embraced the exotic, the mysterious, the mad.
0:41:20 > 0:41:23Though no matter how many times you played Stairway To Heaven
0:41:23 > 0:41:26backwards, you never really could hear the secret messages.
0:41:27 > 0:41:35For my let daylight in upon magic, if you will, the one thing I wanted to do with this programme was
0:41:35 > 0:41:39once and for all, stop apologising for being nostalgic about it.
0:41:39 > 0:41:41I think, in 100 years,
0:41:41 > 0:41:44a lot of these albums are going to be performed,
0:41:44 > 0:41:48and because of the death list line, "Hope I die before I get old",
0:41:48 > 0:41:50which has hung like a pall over any real analysis,
0:41:50 > 0:41:53beyond affection, for the stuff we're hearing now,
0:41:53 > 0:41:58and some of them I knew were coming tonight, yeah - it's rosy-tinted, but it has worth.
0:41:58 > 0:42:01Kate, do you agree that there is something that we wouldn't do
0:42:01 > 0:42:03to movies, we wouldn't do to books,
0:42:03 > 0:42:07and certainly wouldn't do it to jazz, that rock music, particularly
0:42:07 > 0:42:10during that '70s period, might have created something magical.
0:42:10 > 0:42:13Is there any worth in this stuff we're talking about tonight?
0:42:13 > 0:42:15Well, that's why it's interesting,
0:42:15 > 0:42:19this idea that it may have been the great era of the rock album,
0:42:19 > 0:42:21but if you look... I remember Jimmy Webb saying,
0:42:21 > 0:42:23"this is when it all started to go wrong was
0:42:23 > 0:42:24when the album came into play",
0:42:24 > 0:42:27because people who were industry songwriters like him,
0:42:27 > 0:42:30who were pre-tooled to make these three-minute little wonders,
0:42:30 > 0:42:32suddenly there were just loads of really,
0:42:32 > 0:42:35really good bands who had got the space to play over an entire
0:42:35 > 0:42:38album, and I think that's just a phenomenon. Looking back on it,
0:42:38 > 0:42:40it's very much the case that this stuff
0:42:40 > 0:42:44happened at a particular time and, for the last ten years in the music industry,
0:42:44 > 0:42:46we've been nostalgic about it and that's going to continue.
0:42:46 > 0:42:48It's probably going to get more positive...
0:42:48 > 0:42:52It took a generation, as well, to be a palate cleanser,
0:42:52 > 0:42:54and now certainly, my own son, and his friends,
0:42:54 > 0:42:57they say "This stuff's great". Not all of it, obviously.
0:42:57 > 0:43:00The idea that you defend every record that came out in the '70s - of course, it's preposterous.
0:43:00 > 0:43:05And it was never a massively popular music, certainly on television and elsewhere.
0:43:05 > 0:43:08- But when it's good, it's very, very good.- It's interesting you said that it would be
0:43:08 > 0:43:11performed in 100 years' time, because I agree with that.
0:43:11 > 0:43:13The tribute bands we have now, you, kind of, laugh,
0:43:13 > 0:43:17but I was - weirdly - in Fairbanks, Alaska, ages ago,
0:43:17 > 0:43:20and I walked into a bar, walked straight up to order a beer,
0:43:20 > 0:43:24and they were playing Wish You Were Here, Pink Floyd,
0:43:24 > 0:43:26and it was... I turned round, and it was a band.
0:43:26 > 0:43:30And they were, honestly, close - Pink Floyd. They were spot on.
0:43:30 > 0:43:33It was completely Pink Floyd.
0:43:33 > 0:43:36And you think, "Why would you not perform a work as good as that
0:43:36 > 0:43:39"100 years down the line?" Why would you not? People don't say,
0:43:39 > 0:43:43"I'm not going to go and listen to this Bach concerto, because it isn't actually Bach playing it."
0:43:43 > 0:43:45I know, but there is something risible, apparently,
0:43:45 > 0:43:49about that period and someone of our age
0:43:49 > 0:43:52and intellect - no offence to our younger friends here! -
0:43:52 > 0:43:54saying this stuff has worth, it's any good.
0:43:54 > 0:43:58So if I'm coming to you, Stephen, with your producer's ideas,
0:43:58 > 0:44:01do you miss the album, the discipline, the economy,
0:44:01 > 0:44:03just the very idea that a group goes in
0:44:03 > 0:44:06and makes this statement for its audience?
0:44:06 > 0:44:08Do you miss the album yourself?
0:44:08 > 0:44:09I'm not sure I miss it.
0:44:09 > 0:44:13The key thing is that 40 minutes is a good optimum time for people
0:44:13 > 0:44:16to focus and give their attention to listening to one artist,
0:44:16 > 0:44:18so I think that, kind of, works well.
0:44:18 > 0:44:21I also think, if you're a heavy touring band
0:44:21 > 0:44:24and you're touring and you're on the touring, recording, kind of, circle
0:44:24 > 0:44:29to come up with more than 40 minutes to an hour of good
0:44:29 > 0:44:32material which would be cool for your next record is quite hard,
0:44:32 > 0:44:36so I would imagine that that's kind another reason why albums
0:44:36 > 0:44:38were the length they were.
0:44:38 > 0:44:41The other thing I'd like to make clear is that throughout
0:44:41 > 0:44:43the '70s, there was a huge advance in recording techniques.
0:44:43 > 0:44:45Obviously, the studios got bigger,
0:44:45 > 0:44:47there were more tracks available,
0:44:47 > 0:44:51so bands were able to go and spend more time,
0:44:51 > 0:44:54in multi-tracking and layering and so on,
0:44:54 > 0:44:57and so what we also saw was not just great records being
0:44:57 > 0:45:00made by artists, but some also great producers coming through,
0:45:00 > 0:45:02and some really great engineers being able to shine.
0:45:02 > 0:45:07The idea of an album, when I used to go and buy an album,
0:45:07 > 0:45:09I never wanted... CDs came out, I didn't want them.
0:45:09 > 0:45:12I was quite happy the way that music was being delivered.
0:45:12 > 0:45:17And CDs just seemed to be a fait accompli. And without saying that was a slippery slope, that
0:45:17 > 0:45:18connection was just broken there.
0:45:18 > 0:45:22And it wasn't the idea that I'm of a generation that bought final, but I actually didn't request CDs.
0:45:22 > 0:45:26We're finding it now with a lot of downloading information,
0:45:26 > 0:45:29the way big stores and little stores are going out of business.
0:45:29 > 0:45:32We didn't actually want this, but it's going to happen, anyway.
0:45:32 > 0:45:36What I liked on the eight track, when you had to have...
0:45:36 > 0:45:38because it had to be the same length - you had to be able to
0:45:38 > 0:45:41divide it into four - you had to put the little tiny bit,
0:45:41 > 0:45:45so you'd get these albums, very specifically you can date them
0:45:45 > 0:45:47as to when eight tracks were around, because they were albums,
0:45:47 > 0:45:50but this weird little one-and-a-half minute track on the end.
0:45:50 > 0:45:53Aisle Of Plenty on Selling England is an example.
0:45:53 > 0:45:55I only found out, and you probably know more about this,
0:45:55 > 0:45:58Stephen, that some of the albums, like I've got by Yes
0:45:58 > 0:46:01and Emerson Lake and Palmer, and things like that, they had
0:46:01 > 0:46:04these filler tracks on that plainly are there,
0:46:04 > 0:46:06and so noticeably there,
0:46:06 > 0:46:08and even if they do a whole side of an album,
0:46:08 > 0:46:13they're broken up into movement one, movement two, and it was only when I met a member of Yes, he said,
0:46:13 > 0:46:15"that's cos we had to get paid for each of those tracks."
0:46:15 > 0:46:18"You do one long track", he said, "So, if we put on a track,
0:46:18 > 0:46:20"the drummer would, literally, do a little fill,
0:46:20 > 0:46:23"and we'd call it something, that was an individual payment
0:46:23 > 0:46:26"he had to get." And I don't know if I wanted to hear that.
0:46:26 > 0:46:28I'd read so much into it by then.
0:46:28 > 0:46:30That reminds me of a story about Bob Seger.
0:46:30 > 0:46:34He'd hired the Muscle Shoals rhythm section to do one of his records
0:46:34 > 0:46:37because he heard that it was 5,000 a side, and they meant a song,
0:46:37 > 0:46:39and he thought it was a side of an album,
0:46:39 > 0:46:42and they just, literally, parted ways halfway through.
0:46:42 > 0:46:44"I can't afford to pay you for this!"
0:46:44 > 0:46:47How do you tell someone, "That's no good for an album?"
0:46:47 > 0:46:49I can't imagine anything.
0:46:49 > 0:46:51And there are, as I say, even,
0:46:51 > 0:46:53and I'm trying to bet without the Beatles tonight,
0:46:53 > 0:46:55or that overwhelms everything, but you get an album like Revolver,
0:46:55 > 0:46:57which is still absolutely staggering, the idea
0:46:57 > 0:47:02that it was made, as we record this, that'll be 47 years ago...
0:47:02 > 0:47:05- On four track.- On four track. And you see, but then again, yes,
0:47:05 > 0:47:08with the best will in the world, and I know kids love it, but it's
0:47:08 > 0:47:12got Yellow Submarine halfway through side one, and you think, OK.
0:47:12 > 0:47:17Have you ever had to say to a band, "I don't think that's very good."
0:47:17 > 0:47:20There's been times when I've kind of hinted that way,
0:47:20 > 0:47:23but I'm a big fan of tracks like Yellow Submarine
0:47:23 > 0:47:25being on Revolver, because it gives it scope and depth.
0:47:25 > 0:47:28It's like Frankly, Mr Shankly on The Queen Is Dead.
0:47:28 > 0:47:33You're kind of... I think it's... It's, kind of, nice to have this,
0:47:33 > 0:47:36kind of, breadth of material, kind of, spread throughout.
0:47:36 > 0:47:39And how about - and sorry this is directed at yourself, but
0:47:39 > 0:47:43something like Blur, who said, "We don't want to do them hits any more.
0:47:43 > 0:47:45"We want to do intriguing, introspective stuff."
0:47:45 > 0:47:49D'you have to just go along with these musicians' ideas?
0:47:49 > 0:47:50Well, yes, to a degree, I do.
0:47:50 > 0:47:54When we made the Blur album, you know, the fifth album,
0:47:54 > 0:47:58there was a distinct, kind of, turning point of turning
0:47:58 > 0:48:02away from the more pop end of their spectrum, as it were.
0:48:02 > 0:48:05But actually it was a great, kind of, release,
0:48:05 > 0:48:07especially for Demon, I think, as a songwriter.
0:48:07 > 0:48:09- It can be a trap, of course.- Yeah.
0:48:09 > 0:48:12Well, some groups arrive fully-formed - and have you,
0:48:12 > 0:48:16or certainly me, saying, "I don't know how they could have done that."
0:48:16 > 0:48:20It's just come fully-formed out of somewhere else.
0:48:20 > 0:48:22And so my third selection I'm going to do tonight is this
0:48:22 > 0:48:25extraordinary piece of music, which has had to
0:48:25 > 0:48:27weather its critics over the years,
0:48:27 > 0:48:30but from 21st-Century Schizoid Man, which is as angular
0:48:30 > 0:48:33a listen as you'd ever hear, to the wonderful
0:48:33 > 0:48:37In The Court Of The Crimson King, itself, an observation by King Crimson.
0:48:37 > 0:48:40And yep - that's Greg Lake's signature on the front there.
0:48:40 > 0:48:43Vocalist for King Crimson, at that time. Bryan Ferry was nearly the vocalist, of course.
0:48:43 > 0:48:46Of course, anyone watching this under the age of 11
0:48:46 > 0:48:48is probably still wondering, "What is all the fuss about?"
0:48:48 > 0:48:51There were 70,000 albums released last year,
0:48:51 > 0:48:54so why should anyone care about all of this stuff?
0:48:54 > 0:48:58"I mean, come off it, granddad! Get with the programme...jogramme!"
0:48:58 > 0:49:00Well, kids. Let me tell you all about it.
0:49:07 > 0:49:09No-one truly boasts about being a CD collector,
0:49:09 > 0:49:13or solemnly alphabeticises their MP3 files.
0:49:13 > 0:49:15But in the analogue era,
0:49:15 > 0:49:17you'd run back into a burning squat to rescue
0:49:17 > 0:49:23a bunch of albums, because LPs felt more intimate, more substantial.
0:49:23 > 0:49:27Those 12 inches of vinyl promised a direct relationship with the band.
0:49:27 > 0:49:30Indeed, one of the trends of the '70s was the rise of the live album.
0:49:30 > 0:49:33Every self-respecting rock act had to have one.
0:49:34 > 0:49:39Frampton Comes Alive was the best selling album of 1976.
0:49:39 > 0:49:42The Grateful Dead released nine live albums and, I don't know,
0:49:42 > 0:49:44maybe a million bootlegs!
0:49:44 > 0:49:47The Who's Live At Leeds was so revered, there is now
0:49:47 > 0:49:50a blue plaque as the venue, to commemorate its recording.
0:49:53 > 0:49:54Live albums brought the full moshing
0:49:54 > 0:49:58and mayhem of a concert to your sideboard music centre.
0:50:02 > 0:50:04Band members became stars in their own right,
0:50:04 > 0:50:08given space on albums for some really rotten solos and fanfares.
0:50:12 > 0:50:14- Yeah, right!- In youth clubs,
0:50:14 > 0:50:17kids would actually argue over who was the world's bestest
0:50:17 > 0:50:19lead guitarist - Eddie Van Halen,
0:50:21 > 0:50:23slash, Jimmy Page,
0:50:23 > 0:50:25slash...Slash!
0:50:26 > 0:50:31I wouldn't even lift the needle from vinyl during the electric mandolin or flute solos!
0:50:34 > 0:50:37The point is, LPs were from the analogue era,
0:50:37 > 0:50:42before digital recording, and before autotune, and before sampling.
0:50:42 > 0:50:44They were faithful recordings of the individual
0:50:44 > 0:50:47and collective talents of the musicians and there was
0:50:47 > 0:50:53a credible virtuosity locked into those microscopic vinyl grooves.
0:50:53 > 0:50:56The creative high point of rock music synced with
0:50:56 > 0:50:58the highpoint of the vinyl LP.
0:50:58 > 0:51:00And that is no coincidence.
0:51:00 > 0:51:02TRACK ENDS, AUDIENCE CHEERS
0:51:03 > 0:51:05I might as well say that Rock of Ages by The Band
0:51:05 > 0:51:08is the best live album, but we'll discuss that in a moment.
0:51:08 > 0:51:09I think not!
0:51:10 > 0:51:12In a second, in a second.
0:51:13 > 0:51:17Kate, the legacy of the period we're talking about.
0:51:17 > 0:51:19a generation has gone by when it's de rigeur to go
0:51:19 > 0:51:24and get your parents' tastes. Is there a legacy from vinyl?
0:51:24 > 0:51:28Will people actually see it for what it was and what it's worth?
0:51:28 > 0:51:29I think the tendency,
0:51:29 > 0:51:33particularly if you're trying to discover new music, one of the problems, I'm still
0:51:33 > 0:51:36trying to get away from this, is that if something excites you, it tends to be
0:51:36 > 0:51:41because it reminds you of something else that came out in the '70s. So, John Grant, for instance,
0:51:41 > 0:51:45who is a great singer-songwriter - he sounds like early Elton John and the Carpenters,
0:51:45 > 0:51:49so you've got these reference points. It's impossible to break away from those.
0:51:49 > 0:51:52The other thing that I suppose troubles me a bit about Spotify
0:51:52 > 0:51:57and digital downloading, is that your listening habits are so different,
0:51:57 > 0:51:59your idea of patience has changed so much,
0:51:59 > 0:52:01that people will create 14-hour playlists,
0:52:01 > 0:52:05to have on in the background while they are writing an article,
0:52:05 > 0:52:07or having a dinner party or something like that.
0:52:07 > 0:52:10And you just can't discover the hidden gems of an album in
0:52:10 > 0:52:14the same way if you're only cherrypicking from lots of different ones.
0:52:14 > 0:52:17And I think, in a way, that CDs won't have a revival.
0:52:17 > 0:52:22There is something totemistic and mystical about the vinyl album,
0:52:22 > 0:52:25that I think will last, and is, fortunately, being rediscovered,
0:52:25 > 0:52:30to the point that something like - if I might just very quickly - something like that, Led Zepplin 1 -
0:52:30 > 0:52:35turquoise writing, on eBay - £1,700 the last copy went for.
0:52:35 > 0:52:37So there's worth in it, in all kinds of way.
0:52:37 > 0:52:41And now to the bit I know you've all been waiting for.
0:52:41 > 0:52:44It's purely and simply and obviously on personal taste,
0:52:44 > 0:52:46there's enough music out there to satisfy everyone.
0:52:46 > 0:52:49The three albums you want to put on the Wall of Sound behind me.
0:52:49 > 0:52:51Starting with you, Kate.
0:52:51 > 0:52:54Difficult choice. I would say, first one - Hot Rats, Zappa.
0:52:54 > 0:52:56We already have a Zappa, but a genius
0:52:56 > 0:53:00and more like a classical composer, than a rock star, really.
0:53:00 > 0:53:02But had a sense of humour. That's why he gets through.
0:53:02 > 0:53:04And I would say the opening track, Peaches En Regalia,
0:53:04 > 0:53:07is as good an opening track as on any piece of work.
0:53:07 > 0:53:09And impossible to whistle, because the tune is so crazy,
0:53:09 > 0:53:13- you can't whistle it. - Sounds like a wager to me! There is one. What about two?
0:53:13 > 0:53:16Next one. This is a bit obscure. Coliseum.
0:53:16 > 0:53:19Those Who Are About To Die Salute You, which I loved growing up.
0:53:19 > 0:53:22There's not enough jazz-rock in the world, and this is joyous
0:53:22 > 0:53:26and ebullient and brash and the drummer led the band, Jon Hiseman.
0:53:26 > 0:53:29You could have given me a thousand guesses and a gun to my head - I would not
0:53:29 > 0:53:34have put either you together with that or a woman together with that.
0:53:34 > 0:53:36I know! But it's got these kind of mock-classical things.
0:53:36 > 0:53:39It's got a version of Whiter Shade Of Pale, as well, which is lovely.
0:53:39 > 0:53:43That's always a good thing, like prog rock, it should be bonkers.
0:53:43 > 0:53:46It should be bonkers. And this one, very controversial, Queen.
0:53:46 > 0:53:49Possibly the ugliest album cover in history - really horrible,
0:53:49 > 0:53:51sprayed with baby oil.
0:53:51 > 0:53:54I didn't choose Night At The Opera, because I think this is where -
0:53:54 > 0:53:56Queen have been called "a singles band" before,
0:53:56 > 0:53:59which is often a veiled insult.
0:53:59 > 0:54:02But it takes a lot to be able to have four people who can all write songs.
0:54:02 > 0:54:05That's the first album that they all started writing on.
0:54:05 > 0:54:08I can tell, we could debate it, but it's not about that. It's not a bear pit.
0:54:08 > 0:54:11And if you say so, and it's in your heart, that's all that matters.
0:54:11 > 0:54:12That's what vinyl does.
0:54:12 > 0:54:16Stephen, I've got an idea where you're going, but what have you got?
0:54:16 > 0:54:18Well, it's a little bit more obvious for me,
0:54:18 > 0:54:23but the first album I spent my own pocket money on. Ziggy Stardust.
0:54:23 > 0:54:24It was life-changing for me,
0:54:24 > 0:54:29and also very many musicians that I've had the good fortune
0:54:29 > 0:54:31to work with over the years have all come back
0:54:31 > 0:54:35and mentioned this period of Bowie and what an influence he was.
0:54:35 > 0:54:39Again, it seems absurd in these days to talk about an LP that
0:54:39 > 0:54:41could culturally change everything, and it did.
0:54:41 > 0:54:44I think Ian McCulloch, from Echo and the Bunnymen,
0:54:44 > 0:54:47another great singer, fantastic singer, I think he was like me,
0:54:47 > 0:54:52blown away by Bowie and this record, and it's still being felt.
0:54:52 > 0:54:54Still being felt. Second one?
0:54:54 > 0:54:58Next one? It's London Calling, The Clash.
0:54:58 > 0:55:01If there's a track more uplifting than the opening
0:55:01 > 0:55:05bars of London Calling, the track itself, I'd love to hear it.
0:55:05 > 0:55:09Because when you hear that stomp, and that bass line kick in...
0:55:09 > 0:55:12Like in the Bond film, with the BA jets coming in to land and they play London Calling.
0:55:12 > 0:55:15It got re-used again for the Olympics last year,
0:55:15 > 0:55:20so obviously there's someone on that committee who feels the same way.
0:55:20 > 0:55:24At the end of the opening track he starts singing, "I never felt more like singing the blues",
0:55:24 > 0:55:27and they had to cut it, because they couldn't afford to pay for it.
0:55:27 > 0:55:29- And the third one? - Yeah, it's brilliant.
0:55:29 > 0:55:32And the last one, again it comes from the same
0:55:32 > 0:55:37glam period, but for me, this is Lou Reed at his most accessible.
0:55:37 > 0:55:42Great storytelling, proto-punk, with Vicious, and storytelling,
0:55:42 > 0:55:45with Walk On The Wild Side - New York sleaze and everything.
0:55:45 > 0:55:48And Perfect Day - what a great song.
0:55:48 > 0:55:52Even Susan Boyle couldn't ruin it - or could she?
0:55:52 > 0:55:56And it's got Satellite of Love, a Bowie track in all, but...
0:55:56 > 0:56:00# Bam, bam, bam! # His backing vocals are beautiful.
0:56:00 > 0:56:02As a young man, listening to Lou Reed talking about the sleazier
0:56:02 > 0:56:07- side of life in New York, it was quite an eye-opener.- It was a shame what happened to him, though.
0:56:07 > 0:56:10And now, speaking of grumpy old gits!
0:56:11 > 0:56:14Jeremy, I think I know one you're going to bring out,
0:56:14 > 0:56:19- but surprise me - what's your three? - Rumours.- OK.- It's...
0:56:19 > 0:56:22and particularly this one, actually, because this was a very
0:56:22 > 0:56:26- important thing when we were all growing up, was to get...- Oh!
0:56:26 > 0:56:28See, we live in an age now where vinyl will come out in any
0:56:28 > 0:56:32other colour, but the weird sight of seeing something that wasn't black.
0:56:32 > 0:56:36No, Rumours, and particularly Songbird, the Christine McVie...
0:56:36 > 0:56:38you know, the little simple piano thing.
0:56:38 > 0:56:43An incredible song and an incredible album. That. I know it's a cliche...
0:56:43 > 0:56:45The reason it's a cliche...
0:56:45 > 0:56:48- The reason it's a cliche - it's just a great album.- It is.
0:56:48 > 0:56:52And the sequencing as well on Dark Side Of The Moon, it's just epic. I listen to that all the time.
0:56:52 > 0:56:57Well done for not trying to be arch, or try something else.
0:56:57 > 0:57:01I fluctuate with these three albums, as to which is my favourite
0:57:01 > 0:57:04of all time, constantly, and, at the moment, my favourite is,
0:57:04 > 0:57:09and has been for a long time, is Crime Of The Century,
0:57:09 > 0:57:11and Hide In Your Shell is...
0:57:11 > 0:57:14I honestly believe, and this is just me,
0:57:14 > 0:57:18I believe that Hide In Your Shell is the finest piece of music ever
0:57:18 > 0:57:20written by a group of human beings.
0:57:20 > 0:57:22But nobody, I don't expect anyone...
0:57:22 > 0:57:25there's no point writing to me, because you'll disagree.
0:57:25 > 0:57:29No, and there's nothing more boring, because in the end we're all subservient.
0:57:29 > 0:57:32- It's the track I listen to most. - Tunesmithery, as they used to call it.
0:57:32 > 0:57:36I listen to that track three times a week, every week, without fail.
0:57:36 > 0:57:40I sometimes just put it on and it's got to be played loud, and it's epic.
0:57:40 > 0:57:43And there was a group who virtually were dropped by their label,
0:57:43 > 0:57:46till they said, "Let's sober up, let's make some hits".
0:57:46 > 0:57:51Well, I've often shrunk from the phrase Baker's Dozen.
0:57:52 > 0:57:55But this time, I'm not. I'm going to make it 13.
0:57:55 > 0:57:57Because I think the greatest rock album ever made,
0:57:57 > 0:58:02by the very definition of rock itself, cannot be bettered by this
0:58:02 > 0:58:08absolute stupendous piece of work - Led Zeppelin's Physical Graffiti.
0:58:08 > 0:58:11Something like In My Time Of Dying - if anyone ever said,
0:58:11 > 0:58:13"Well, the Earth's going to end in 20 minutes, the Martians
0:58:13 > 0:58:17"are going to take away rock music", you say, "There you are, mate.
0:58:17 > 0:58:19"That's pretty much the heart and soul of it." And it is
0:58:19 > 0:58:22an extraordinary, extraordinary finished piece of work,
0:58:22 > 0:58:25- and a double album, too. - And beautiful.- And beautiful.
0:58:25 > 0:58:29Another time, we'll go through these. And so we've come to our run-out groove.
0:58:29 > 0:58:32I'm not sure what the last hour was about, but it felt terrific up here,
0:58:32 > 0:58:35and I hope it touched a nerve for you, too, and basically we've been
0:58:35 > 0:58:39having the same conversation for decades, so thank you, Kate.
0:58:39 > 0:58:42- Thank you, Stephen.- Thank you. - Thank you, Jeremy.- Loved it.
0:58:42 > 0:58:46You have spoken and the ages have listened. Well, I know I have.
0:58:46 > 0:58:50Until the next time, thanks for watching, and hey, man - rock on!
0:59:14 > 0:59:17Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd