0:00:02 > 0:00:05Welcome, everyone, and thank you for joining me
0:00:05 > 0:00:07on what is an improbable, impossible,
0:00:07 > 0:00:11even impish musical quest that I hope you'll enjoy.
0:00:11 > 0:00:15This tumultuous plate, this two ounces of black plastic with a hole in the middle,
0:00:15 > 0:00:18is one of the noblest, nuttiest creations
0:00:18 > 0:00:20in the field of human achievement.
0:00:20 > 0:00:22It's an LP.
0:00:22 > 0:00:26To extend those initials further, it's an R&B LP.
0:00:26 > 0:00:31Are you confused, kids? Allow me and a suitably hip gaggle of soul-searchers be your guides,
0:00:31 > 0:00:34as we examine the rhythm-and-blues long-player
0:00:34 > 0:00:38and why it sits at the centre of our lives. I feel good.
0:00:38 > 0:00:41- # One, two - # Ah, freak out
0:00:42 > 0:00:44# Le freak, c'est chic
0:00:44 > 0:00:46# Freak out
0:00:48 > 0:00:50# Ah, freak out
0:00:50 > 0:00:53- # Le freak, c'est chic - # Freak out #
0:00:53 > 0:00:58Barely 15 years old, my first job was in a record shop, a real one,
0:00:58 > 0:01:00not just sitting on the till
0:01:00 > 0:01:04but expected to know my stuff, as a great chef would know his ingredients.
0:01:04 > 0:01:08Now, in our shop, we sold a lot of what I'm frankly calling 'black music'.
0:01:08 > 0:01:12ZZ Hill, Ohio Players, Luther Ingram...
0:01:12 > 0:01:14Talk about your labour of love.
0:01:14 > 0:01:19It is possible that R&B albums run deeper than any other sounds committed to wax.
0:01:19 > 0:01:23I'm joined by vinyl freak, soulman and club DJ
0:01:23 > 0:01:26since before George Clinton reached for his hair colour,
0:01:26 > 0:01:28- there's Trevor Nelson! - LAUGHTER
0:01:28 > 0:01:31Over there, with a voice to die for
0:01:31 > 0:01:34and then a back catalogue to resurrect the spirit,
0:01:34 > 0:01:36she's surely Britain's finest soul and gospel singer,
0:01:36 > 0:01:38here's Mica Paris.
0:01:38 > 0:01:42And also, Motown aficionado, vinyl archivist,
0:01:42 > 0:01:45selfless seeker of the dance-floor groove,
0:01:45 > 0:01:48oh, and now pretty-boy big-shot international film-star
0:01:48 > 0:01:51- Martin Freeman!- Hello.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54Welcome, everyone. Little settling question...
0:01:54 > 0:01:59What would you say is the first R&B album you bought with your own money?
0:01:59 > 0:02:00Oh! Own money...
0:02:00 > 0:02:03- I went into Our Price records... - Yes.
0:02:03 > 0:02:04..and I bought, this is no lie,
0:02:04 > 0:02:08Roy Ayers Lifeline album, with that brilliant track Running Away on it.
0:02:08 > 0:02:11Went home, it was shrink-wrapped, opened it all excited,
0:02:11 > 0:02:14out popped a country and western album!
0:02:14 > 0:02:19I ran back to the shop on the 73 bus, didn't run, got the 73 bus, and they had none left
0:02:19 > 0:02:22- so I got The Best of Earth, Wind & Fire.- OK.
0:02:22 > 0:02:26- The red one?- Yes, The Best of Earth, Wind & Fire.
0:02:26 > 0:02:30- Mica?- My very first record, with my own pocket money that I saved up,
0:02:30 > 0:02:32- was Tom Browne - Funkin' for Jamaica.- Oh!
0:02:32 > 0:02:36I can't tell you... That record, I wore it out,
0:02:36 > 0:02:40I mean, played it till it was warped, scratched, everything.
0:02:40 > 0:02:43When the first two trumpet notes come in, you're gone!
0:02:43 > 0:02:44- Gone!- Solid gold.
0:02:44 > 0:02:49- Martin? - Erm, on the R&B side of things,
0:02:49 > 0:02:53it would've been Beggars Banquet Records in Kingston,
0:02:53 > 0:02:5820 Motown Mod Classics, with a big target on the front.
0:02:58 > 0:03:00So old Motown records from '63, '64...
0:03:00 > 0:03:03- Of course.- ..that the original Mods would've been digging.
0:03:03 > 0:03:06I'm probably the same as you. It'd be Motown Chartbusters Vol 3,
0:03:06 > 0:03:09- with that cover that was like a starburst.- Yes!
0:03:09 > 0:03:12- It was silver. - I've got that! That's brilliant!
0:03:12 > 0:03:17- And also, What Is Soul. There's a lot to be said for those old Motown compilations.- Yes.
0:03:17 > 0:03:20The term "R&B" can mean different things to different generations,
0:03:20 > 0:03:25and thus leads to brusque language, fruity dancing
0:03:25 > 0:03:27and strange looks!
0:03:27 > 0:03:32"Good evening. Do not attempt to adjust your radio. There is nothing wrong.
0:03:32 > 0:03:36"We have taken control as to bring you this special show.
0:03:36 > 0:03:40"We will return it to you as soon as you are grooving."
0:03:40 > 0:03:41RECORD SCRATCHES
0:03:44 > 0:03:47So, what is rhythm and blues?
0:03:48 > 0:03:53Is it the result of some kind of musical alchemy which combines rhythm and emotion
0:03:53 > 0:03:57and filters it through the African-American experience, some say mojo?
0:03:57 > 0:04:00- Well, if it is... - # The moment I wake up...
0:04:00 > 0:04:03..it's in the soulful sound of Aretha Franklin...
0:04:03 > 0:04:06# Before I put on my makeup... #
0:04:06 > 0:04:10..it's in BB King's guitar Lucille...
0:04:12 > 0:04:15..and Stevie Wonder gives it off in waves.
0:04:15 > 0:04:17MUSIC: "Living For The City" by Stevie Wonder
0:04:17 > 0:04:19Ah, man! You're talkin' about funk!
0:04:19 > 0:04:24And Bootsy's quite right to use the F-word when describing it.
0:04:24 > 0:04:26Prince screams it.
0:04:26 > 0:04:30R&B artists have produced some of the most wonderfully pleasurable, innovative
0:04:30 > 0:04:34and inspirational albums of the last 50 years.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38Brother Ray and his seminal song What'd I Say
0:04:38 > 0:04:41kicked off a golden age of R&B,
0:04:41 > 0:04:44and with his album Let's Get It On,
0:04:44 > 0:04:48"Distant Lover" Marvin Gaye seemed to refine it to perfection.
0:04:52 > 0:04:56The church of R&B astonished and seduced millions all over the world
0:04:56 > 0:04:59through continual reinvention.
0:04:59 > 0:05:04MUSIC: "Paid In Full" by Eric B & Rakim
0:05:04 > 0:05:06And in this church,
0:05:06 > 0:05:08the hymn book...
0:05:08 > 0:05:11..was the vinyl LP.
0:05:11 > 0:05:14MUSIC: "Everything Is Everything" by Lauryn Hill
0:05:14 > 0:05:17Trevor, what do you reckon? Can you define it?
0:05:17 > 0:05:21It's a slippery old concept saying anything comes under an umbrella,
0:05:21 > 0:05:24but it seems to me R&B can actually have parameters.
0:05:24 > 0:05:29- Do you reckon?- I think it's all of the above on that clip, all of that,
0:05:29 > 0:05:31from even Jimi Hendrix to Prince
0:05:31 > 0:05:35to Michael Jackson to hip-hop.
0:05:35 > 0:05:39But I remember going on Radio 1, my first show,
0:05:39 > 0:05:44and I used the term R&B, because Americans have never stopped using it, we don't...
0:05:44 > 0:05:48In the '90s, we liked to say soul or swing,
0:05:48 > 0:05:51but we didn't say R&B in this country that much.
0:05:51 > 0:05:58And so I got all these angry letters. I played Fugees Killing Me Softly. "That's not R&B! That's blasphemy!"
0:05:58 > 0:06:00I thought, "This is going to be awkward"
0:06:00 > 0:06:05because every generation treats that term differently, I believe.
0:06:05 > 0:06:08What R&B is not to me -
0:06:08 > 0:06:11it's easier to say what it's not - it's not dance music.
0:06:11 > 0:06:17The problem I have right now, a lot of people are saying R&B is the four-to-the-floor dance scene,
0:06:17 > 0:06:22but I think anything from Usher to Sam Cooke, anything from, you know,
0:06:22 > 0:06:25anything that's got that gospel, bluesy rhythm...
0:06:25 > 0:06:27Can you detect it, though?
0:06:27 > 0:06:31In a blind testing, could you say "Yes, that's got soul"?
0:06:31 > 0:06:35I think you can, and I think you have to be a fan to be able to do it.
0:06:35 > 0:06:39But I don't like trying to define R&B
0:06:39 > 0:06:43- because it's just a marketing term now, unfortunately.- Yes.
0:06:43 > 0:06:47That's what it is. It's like rock'n'roll. Try and define rock'n'roll.
0:06:47 > 0:06:52When you've got a ballad going on, I'm thinking, "Is that rock?" and someone says, "Yes."
0:06:52 > 0:06:56What I was going to say, when you think about the root of it,
0:06:56 > 0:06:58like, where I go with it is more this...
0:06:58 > 0:07:04There was a moment where gospel music suddenly changed
0:07:04 > 0:07:07because what happened was, these singers came from church
0:07:07 > 0:07:11and decided to keep the same style of music
0:07:11 > 0:07:13- but change the lyric.- Yes.
0:07:13 > 0:07:18So this is really where it came out, you know, organically. It came that way.
0:07:18 > 0:07:22That's why there was so much feeling, because it was coming from gospel in the beginning.
0:07:22 > 0:07:27To be fair, they all said "We want to earn a few dollars."
0:07:27 > 0:07:30Think about James Brown, Chuck Berry, Little Richard,
0:07:30 > 0:07:34these guys were basically taking the same sound in church,
0:07:34 > 0:07:37which was inspirational music, and putting different lyrics on it.
0:07:37 > 0:07:41Are you putting a period on R&B? Are you saying it's only of a certain decade?
0:07:41 > 0:07:44No, not at all. What I'm saying, the way it evolved,
0:07:44 > 0:07:47it evolved in a way that...
0:07:47 > 0:07:50You could go back to Scott Joplin if you're going to go back to ragtime.
0:07:50 > 0:07:54It still came from the church first and then it evolved.
0:07:54 > 0:07:58And then what started to happen is, they kept the music very similar to church music
0:07:58 > 0:08:00but just changed the lyric.
0:08:00 > 0:08:05- We're not going to get bogged down in the semantics and historics. - Not at all.
0:08:05 > 0:08:08But something like St James Infirmary,
0:08:08 > 0:08:12which is a set of both crooners and great soul singers, it's actually a song from London!
0:08:12 > 0:08:15It was written about St James and it was a street song.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18You just take your roots from wherever you like.
0:08:18 > 0:08:21Martin, not that you need to qualify any bona fides,
0:08:21 > 0:08:26but someone could sit with you and only find out at the end you do a bit of acting.
0:08:26 > 0:08:30- You love the music. It is what I first knew about you. - I adore music, yes.
0:08:30 > 0:08:34From the age of five or six, it was the thing that I wanted to do.
0:08:34 > 0:08:38I'm not good enough at it, but I'm a big appreciator of it.
0:08:38 > 0:08:42And in terms of R&B, you empathise with it.
0:08:42 > 0:08:46Yes, I mean, because I started buying R&B and soul, I suppose,
0:08:46 > 0:08:50once I'd already bought ska and punk and 2 tone and reggae.
0:08:50 > 0:08:54So it came to me at a bit of a left turn from that,
0:08:54 > 0:08:59as a sort of Mod thing, I suppose. It was in that sort of tradition.
0:08:59 > 0:09:04Did you seek out the originals? You bought compilations, but did you go, "I need the authentic stuff"?
0:09:04 > 0:09:08I wanted albums. And then after a while, I wanted the original first press.
0:09:08 > 0:09:11Then I got more snobby about that.
0:09:11 > 0:09:15- Now I'm a bit older, I think, "I don't really care."- Oh, I do!
0:09:15 > 0:09:20- It's a lot of fun, all that! - It is. But you need a few bob to do it, as well.
0:09:20 > 0:09:24When you're first buying records, you get it wherever you can.
0:09:24 > 0:09:27Is there a voice that sang from the vinyl that made you think,
0:09:27 > 0:09:30"This ain't The Who"?
0:09:30 > 0:09:33With all due respect, "This ain't Chicory Tip."
0:09:33 > 0:09:38What was your Damascene moment in terms of R&B? What was the voice that sang to you first?
0:09:38 > 0:09:42Probably Marvin Gaye overall. Probably.
0:09:42 > 0:09:43There were lots.
0:09:43 > 0:09:49R&B - wasn't it coined in the late '40s by Jerry Wexler, allegedly?
0:09:49 > 0:09:52This is before Ray Charles came through.
0:09:52 > 0:09:58- There was already that jump-jive sort of pre-rock'n'roll sound. - That Chuck Berry thing...
0:09:58 > 0:10:03- Of course.- We'll get into our various stories about it, like old fishermen, later on,
0:10:03 > 0:10:05about albums and stuff.
0:10:05 > 0:10:08I'm changing my first selection as you spoke there,
0:10:08 > 0:10:12because one of the albums I brought shows it ain't all about funky horns
0:10:12 > 0:10:16and it's not even about what you consider to be groove music,
0:10:16 > 0:10:20but it's one of the great soul albums which has an explanation of church roots...
0:10:20 > 0:10:24- Bill Withers Live At Carnegie Hall. - I nearly brought that!
0:10:24 > 0:10:28He explains about grandma's hands and does a bit of gospel singing,
0:10:28 > 0:10:33then switches to an acoustic guitar, as James Taylor would, but there's something else there.
0:10:33 > 0:10:38- I'm going to bung that up there - a live soul album.- Excellent choice.
0:10:38 > 0:10:39Bill Withers Live At Carnegie Hall.
0:10:39 > 0:10:43- I get to choose first, now you're all choked!- It's brilliant!
0:10:43 > 0:10:46There are many questions posed in song -
0:10:46 > 0:10:48Anthony Newley "What Kind of Fool Am I?,
0:10:48 > 0:10:50- Tom Jones - "What's Thing Called, Love?"
0:10:50 > 0:10:56but it was Ben E King who asked the big one in 1967 when he said, "What Is Soul?"
0:10:56 > 0:10:59It's a question still worth pondering.
0:11:03 > 0:11:05If the Devil really does have all the best tunes,
0:11:05 > 0:11:08then the Lord undoubtedly has the most soulful singers.
0:11:08 > 0:11:12- # I say a little prayer... - # For you #
0:11:12 > 0:11:18The church was at the root of Sam Cooke, Marvin Gaye and Aretha Franklin's singing careers,
0:11:18 > 0:11:21not least because their fathers were all preachers.
0:11:21 > 0:11:26- # This is my prayer, yeah # - # Answer my prayer #
0:11:26 > 0:11:28GOSPEL SINGING
0:11:28 > 0:11:32When Ray Charles took the passion of the church and used it to praise a woman
0:11:32 > 0:11:35on his album Hallelujah I Love Her So,
0:11:35 > 0:11:37it was considered sacrilegious.
0:11:37 > 0:11:39# That's because
0:11:39 > 0:11:41# I've got a woman
0:11:41 > 0:11:44# Way over town... #
0:11:44 > 0:11:47This song, I Got A Woman, based on the hymn It Must Be Jesus,
0:11:47 > 0:11:50would kick-start modern soul as we know it.
0:11:53 > 0:11:57- # Respect yourself - # Da-da, da-da-da
0:11:57 > 0:12:01- # Respect yourself # - # Hee-hee-hee-hee #
0:12:01 > 0:12:05Although deep-rooted in gospel, The Staple Singers helped modernise the form
0:12:05 > 0:12:09with their irresistible hymns of self-empowerment...
0:12:11 > 0:12:16..their finest collection being the 1972 album Be Altitude.
0:12:17 > 0:12:19# All I'm asking
0:12:19 > 0:12:22# Is for A little respect When I come home #
0:12:22 > 0:12:25"Respect" was a message which chimed with the times,
0:12:25 > 0:12:27and not only with black audiences.
0:12:27 > 0:12:30Otis Redding's classic 1965 album, Otis Blue,
0:12:30 > 0:12:34showed that sometimes, soul music could cross the colour line.
0:12:37 > 0:12:39# I let you do these things... #
0:12:39 > 0:12:42When Aretha joined Atlantic Records in 1967,
0:12:42 > 0:12:46she also knew that her soulful, richly emotional voice
0:12:46 > 0:12:47could reach a mass audience.
0:12:47 > 0:12:51With her record I Never Loved a Man (The Way I Love You)
0:12:51 > 0:12:53she truly delivered.
0:12:53 > 0:12:56# ..the way that I...
0:12:56 > 0:13:00# ..I loved... #
0:13:00 > 0:13:03But I remember my sister, who wasn't a big R&B fan,
0:13:03 > 0:13:06she was a pop fan - and there's a fine line in that -
0:13:06 > 0:13:10she bought Age of Atlantic, a sampler on Atlantic Records,
0:13:10 > 0:13:13which had everybody on it - they were just names to me then -
0:13:13 > 0:13:15but the first time I heard When A Man Loves A Woman,
0:13:15 > 0:13:18I just thought, "That voice don't sound like
0:13:18 > 0:13:21the fella's going on cabaret circuit any time soon."
0:13:21 > 0:13:23- It turned out he did!- Yes!
0:13:23 > 0:13:26But there is something in that groove.
0:13:26 > 0:13:28We can get into the question of
0:13:28 > 0:13:32"Is it race? Is it authentic? "Can blue men sing the whites?" all of that later on,
0:13:32 > 0:13:37- but I remember hearing that and thinking, "He sounds like he means it."- Yes.
0:13:37 > 0:13:42- This is what I'm trying to tell you about the gospel thing. - You've summed it up.
0:13:42 > 0:13:45You can't sing the song without affecting the people.
0:13:45 > 0:13:49All the emotion comes out because it's all about inspiration.
0:13:49 > 0:13:54And they took that and brought it into popular culture, which was great!
0:13:54 > 0:13:57That's why it sounded different. It wasn't just a hook.
0:13:57 > 0:14:01It wasn't just, "Let's all sing along." It was like...
0:14:01 > 0:14:06- Wow.- You can hear Mica Paris at 16 singing that in a church!
0:14:06 > 0:14:08- Bootlegs are available!- You could!
0:14:08 > 0:14:12You can hear that music everywhere, but you couldn't give it away
0:14:12 > 0:14:16- because of the gospel tag, unfortunately.- It's funny.
0:14:16 > 0:14:20- The greatest singers on this planet are all gospel singers. - That's the root.
0:14:20 > 0:14:25Like, Aretha did secular music, so the moment they went against the grain with their parents,
0:14:25 > 0:14:27that's the moment the world got really exposed.
0:14:27 > 0:14:31If you think about Otis Redding and all those cats,
0:14:31 > 0:14:35they were really upsetting their community by doing that.
0:14:35 > 0:14:39When they decided to put these secular lyrics onto these church tunes,
0:14:39 > 0:14:42- they were getting... - They were selling out.
0:14:42 > 0:14:44Also, from the other end of the spectrum,
0:14:44 > 0:14:49some of the saltier versions of the songs they used to do late at night,
0:14:49 > 0:14:53they didn't belong in the church!
0:14:53 > 0:14:55Mica, let me come to you with the idea of,
0:14:55 > 0:14:59we've decided from whence it came, the roots and all that,
0:14:59 > 0:15:02but what makes an album?
0:15:02 > 0:15:07It's a hard thing, and there aren't that many, in any genre, perfect albums.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10Do you have any where you say, "That's a quintessential R&B album?"
0:15:10 > 0:15:14There was a moment in music, or a time,
0:15:14 > 0:15:16where every album was a full album,
0:15:16 > 0:15:19where it was a journey that you started
0:15:19 > 0:15:22and you went through a whole journey on the album to the end.
0:15:22 > 0:15:25Convinced yourself the lousy tracks were good!
0:15:25 > 0:15:27It wasn't even like that. Literally, it was a journey.
0:15:27 > 0:15:31Most of the artists when they made their albums,
0:15:31 > 0:15:32they had nothing.
0:15:32 > 0:15:37Most of them were really broke. That's all they had. So the stories were really rich.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40There wasn't that pressure to, "You must record at a certain time."
0:15:40 > 0:15:44- This was their life.- You couldn't have known that at the time.
0:15:44 > 0:15:48You knew that you didn't want to take it off. It was a journey.
0:15:48 > 0:15:52You couldn't let it go. You played an album from start to finish.
0:15:52 > 0:15:55That's what was different, because it was a journey.
0:15:55 > 0:15:57Whereas now, it's all about...
0:15:57 > 0:16:02If someone gets in a car and they're playing their own mix tape,
0:16:02 > 0:16:05when I hear things out of sequence I think, "That doesn't go there!"
0:16:05 > 0:16:08- Exactly!- It hits at my DNA! - They were very conscious of that.
0:16:08 > 0:16:12If you listen to Stevie, you knew it was a storyboard.
0:16:12 > 0:16:15It was starting from somewhere and evolving somewhere else.
0:16:15 > 0:16:20I remember reading about Michael Jackson, as well, when he made Off The Wall,
0:16:20 > 0:16:24his first thing that he said to Rod Temperton and Quincy was,
0:16:24 > 0:16:27he wants every single song to be incredible.
0:16:27 > 0:16:31This is the level that most artists were at,
0:16:31 > 0:16:35- R&B artists.- Trying to be at. - They were back then.
0:16:35 > 0:16:37But back then, they were achieving that,
0:16:37 > 0:16:39whether it was Earth, Wind & Fire, Isley Brothers,
0:16:39 > 0:16:43- every single album, you didn't take it off.- No, you didn't.
0:16:43 > 0:16:47It's sometimes more about you than it is the artist.
0:16:47 > 0:16:49I think that's right,
0:16:49 > 0:16:53and I think there was a period that I would argue,
0:16:53 > 0:16:58tentatively, because I'm 41 and a 16 year old could show me a load of music I don't know,
0:16:58 > 0:17:02but I think you could argue that there was something in the water between '64 and '75.
0:17:02 > 0:17:04There was something special going on.
0:17:04 > 0:17:08But at the same time, when you're young,
0:17:08 > 0:17:11the fewer records you have, you've got less choice.
0:17:11 > 0:17:14Sorry to cut in, but something you just said was interesting,
0:17:14 > 0:17:17that the period, '60...?
0:17:17 > 0:17:21- Four to '75.- What was happening in the world?- Indeed.
0:17:21 > 0:17:26That said, and it's not something particularly R&B, it's true of all of that,
0:17:26 > 0:17:29that era in recorded music when the album was there,
0:17:29 > 0:17:31and we mustn't shy away from this
0:17:31 > 0:17:35because the default position is to say, "The kids today, it's just as good"
0:17:35 > 0:17:40it might not have been... Nobody would argue when Charlie Parker was blowing, that's happening now.
0:17:40 > 0:17:42There were times when stuff was rubbish!
0:17:42 > 0:17:46There can be a magical time and all of these things being pulled from the air,
0:17:46 > 0:17:50because pop culture didn't exist before and then it did.
0:17:50 > 0:17:53But there was a political thing happening at that time.
0:17:53 > 0:17:55There was loads going on.
0:17:55 > 0:17:58Artists, you know, from Gil Scott-Heron to whoever,
0:17:58 > 0:18:00they were vocal about what was going on.
0:18:00 > 0:18:04We had two massive things going on. We had the Vietnamese War
0:18:04 > 0:18:08and we had Civil Rights in America. We're talking about America, obviously.
0:18:08 > 0:18:12When you look back and you look for politics and political viewpoints -
0:18:12 > 0:18:15How would you have filtered that?
0:18:15 > 0:18:19OK, so I can honestly say when I bought an album,
0:18:19 > 0:18:22you know what was going on in my mind? Economics.
0:18:22 > 0:18:26If you buy one single, two singles, three singles... Hang on, you can afford an album!
0:18:26 > 0:18:31So I'd buy albums based purely on, "There are at least three good songs. I'll have that."
0:18:31 > 0:18:34That's how I started. I'm not going to be pretentious
0:18:34 > 0:18:37and say, "I bought albums because they were themed."
0:18:37 > 0:18:40And then I caught onto the fact that "This has got a theme."
0:18:40 > 0:18:45I want to say something else. It was funny, because when I was younger,
0:18:45 > 0:18:50and these same albums, I was hearing through my dad's records,
0:18:50 > 0:18:52when I used to hear them, my thing was
0:18:52 > 0:18:55"I really want to be there".
0:18:55 > 0:18:58I was so obsessed with American black music
0:18:58 > 0:19:00that I was like, "How do they do it?"
0:19:00 > 0:19:05You were reading the back of the linear notes. You were like, "Who played the triangle?"
0:19:05 > 0:19:11You know what I'm saying? It was more than just saying every album was fantastic.
0:19:11 > 0:19:15There was a kind of looking up to these amazing artists.
0:19:15 > 0:19:19"How do they do this?" coming from the UK as a black person.
0:19:19 > 0:19:22Then as saying we know what a great album is,
0:19:22 > 0:19:25I want to think about the opposite kind.
0:19:25 > 0:19:30Can you detect the BS when someone tries it on? We'll get round to that in a second.
0:19:30 > 0:19:35Since the beginning of recorded time, R&B performers have been making the albums that move us,
0:19:35 > 0:19:39and I mean move us out of our chairs and onto the dance floor.
0:19:39 > 0:19:42The old "getting up just to get down..."
0:19:49 > 0:19:52By the early '60s, the balance between the rhythm and the blues
0:19:52 > 0:19:54swung increasingly towards the former,
0:19:54 > 0:19:59as certain R&B acts decided to get "uptight" and indeed "out of sight".
0:20:04 > 0:20:09Ike and Tina Turner made some of the most wildly energetic records of the period.
0:20:09 > 0:20:12This rendition of It's All Gonna Work Out Fine
0:20:12 > 0:20:16gives just a hint of why she could knock your socks off.
0:20:16 > 0:20:20MUSIC: "It's All Gonna Work Out Fine" by Tina Turner
0:20:20 > 0:20:23FUNK MUSIC
0:20:25 > 0:20:27James Brown...
0:20:30 > 0:20:33The 1963 album Live at the Apollo
0:20:33 > 0:20:36showed Brown as the unstoppable showman.
0:20:36 > 0:20:39The following year, a new number - Out of Sight -
0:20:39 > 0:20:43revealed Brown the musical revolutionary.
0:20:43 > 0:20:47With its syncopated upbeat, James Brown revealed a brand-new groove
0:20:47 > 0:20:49which would take funk to the next level.
0:20:49 > 0:20:51It was called The One.
0:20:51 > 0:20:53- One, two, three, four. - STEADY FUNK BEAT
0:20:53 > 0:20:57One, two, three... And you hit on the one. One!
0:20:57 > 0:21:00You know? One! You know?
0:21:00 > 0:21:02# We want the funk
0:21:03 > 0:21:06- # Give up the funk #- Bootsy Collins, of Parliament Funkadelic,
0:21:06 > 0:21:10was one of the greatest funk players to develop Brown's sound
0:21:10 > 0:21:11and explode the dance floors.
0:21:11 > 0:21:14# ...give up the funk #
0:21:16 > 0:21:21By the late 1970s, Earth, Wind & Fire raised the game again, and their bank balance,
0:21:21 > 0:21:25with their brilliant million-selling album "I Am"...
0:21:25 > 0:21:27# Boogie wonderland... #
0:21:27 > 0:21:31..which mixed funk, disco and those jumpsuits.
0:21:31 > 0:21:35MUSIC: Stayin' Alive by Bee Gees
0:21:35 > 0:21:41But the commercial high-water mark of dance music came in 1977
0:21:41 > 0:21:43when three brothers, born in Britain,
0:21:43 > 0:21:47wrote a film score in pretty much one weekend.
0:21:47 > 0:21:49# ..I'm a woman's man No time to talk
0:21:49 > 0:21:51# Music loud and women warm... #
0:21:51 > 0:21:53With Saturday Night Fever,
0:21:53 > 0:21:56the Bee Gees inspired the world to dance,
0:21:56 > 0:21:58sometimes unconvincingly.
0:22:00 > 0:22:03And there you have it.
0:22:04 > 0:22:06You see, I really don't dance.
0:22:06 > 0:22:09- Come on.- No, it's sinful. It is the way I do it, anyway.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12- You don't dance well, Danny? - I don't. I never dance.
0:22:12 > 0:22:14That's because your brain is getting in the way!
0:22:14 > 0:22:17- Exactly! - I think I dance really, really good
0:22:17 > 0:22:20- but everyone else doesn't.- You do! - Nobody else thinks so.
0:22:20 > 0:22:22By the end of the show, I may give us a snatch of it.
0:22:22 > 0:22:26But you look like a fella who never lets his left hip know what his right's doing.
0:22:26 > 0:22:31- Are you a dancer?- I used to be. I used to love clubbing and dancing.
0:22:31 > 0:22:34- I really used to love it. - I love it. Oh, gosh...
0:22:34 > 0:22:38- But I think partly age, partly being a dad...- Dignity.
0:22:38 > 0:22:39..partly fame. Genuinely.
0:22:39 > 0:22:44- Really?- If people are already looking at you in a club,
0:22:44 > 0:22:46your paranoia kicks in and you think,
0:22:46 > 0:22:50"If I throw some shapes, they'll think I'm showing off."
0:22:50 > 0:22:54And people have said that. "He's got to draw more attention to himself by getting down."
0:22:54 > 0:22:59All right, you're indoors, you're safe, the windows and doors are locked...
0:22:59 > 0:23:03- You're talking my language. - ..what particular dance album would you reach for,
0:23:03 > 0:23:05dance R&B album,
0:23:05 > 0:23:08that actually kicks in the groove from the beginning?
0:23:08 > 0:23:11Listen to the Music by Isley Brothers.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14- Their version of Listen to the Music, erm...- Yes.
0:23:14 > 0:23:18- What's their names? - The Doobie Brothers.- Their version is disgusting! It's amazing.
0:23:18 > 0:23:22- It's just foul. - Filthy, dirty, junkyard beast.
0:23:22 > 0:23:23It's wonderful.
0:23:23 > 0:23:29I feel it but I'd be lying if I said I swing a nonstop shoe. I don't.
0:23:29 > 0:23:34And yet, that is almost the raison d'etre of so much R&B.
0:23:34 > 0:23:39How do you stand, and what are the classic R&B great dance acts and albums?
0:23:39 > 0:23:42First of all, you have to go with Earth, Wind & Fire
0:23:42 > 0:23:44because they just...
0:23:44 > 0:23:47You cannot put that on without moving.
0:23:47 > 0:23:51Everything just starts to... without you even trying.
0:23:51 > 0:23:54And then Rock With You, Michael Jackson, ridiculous!
0:23:54 > 0:23:57You put that on and it's over!
0:23:57 > 0:24:01Superstition, Stevie Wonder... They're so infectious
0:24:01 > 0:24:04that you just can't stop yourself from moving.
0:24:04 > 0:24:08It's funny how many of the people are drummers. That explains a lot.
0:24:08 > 0:24:10Marvin Gaye drums on his albums.
0:24:10 > 0:24:14- Barry White drummed on his album. - Stevie's a brilliant drummer.
0:24:14 > 0:24:17Earth, Wind & Fire, Maurice White was the drummer. Stevie Wonder...
0:24:17 > 0:24:21I would say, talking about dance, R&B acts,
0:24:21 > 0:24:23- I'd say Chic, without a doubt. - For sure!
0:24:23 > 0:24:27- Chic, without a doubt. - Tommy Thompson, the drummer...
0:24:27 > 0:24:31They gave that to Diana Ross, they gave it to other people.
0:24:31 > 0:24:34Even a terrible turn like Sheila And B Devotion,
0:24:34 > 0:24:38when they wrote Spacer for her, those fellas were too profligate!
0:24:38 > 0:24:43- Did they ever make a great album, though?- Chic did, I think. I think they made a decent second.
0:24:43 > 0:24:48- What's the black and white one where they're all '20s?- Risque.
0:24:48 > 0:24:50Let's go back to the VT, James Brown.
0:24:50 > 0:24:55- When the doors are locked in my flat...- Come on! Insane!
0:24:55 > 0:24:59..and I agree with Martin, being a DJ it's very difficult to dance.
0:24:59 > 0:25:02You go to a club and see hundreds of people dancing,
0:25:02 > 0:25:06but the DJ looks like a bit of a prat if he's going...
0:25:06 > 0:25:10Trevor, I've got to say something! When I see you up there DJing,
0:25:10 > 0:25:12I just don't understand how he keeps so still!
0:25:12 > 0:25:15Me, I'm just like...
0:25:15 > 0:25:17- I'm going for it! - It's restrictive! It's like torture.
0:25:17 > 0:25:22The last thing you want to do is move because people are looking at you.
0:25:22 > 0:25:23I know.
0:25:23 > 0:25:28But there is a release, without examining too closely the effect of -
0:25:28 > 0:25:32I suppose it's legitimate - the effect these albums and sounds can have on people
0:25:32 > 0:25:36because, in my limited experience when I was a DJ in the '80s in pubs,
0:25:36 > 0:25:39something like Boogie Wonderland, if you will,
0:25:39 > 0:25:43that drumroll as it begins, it goes "Brr-ram-dam-dam-da-da!"
0:25:43 > 0:25:48- and just watching the room lift up, that's enough.- It's over!
0:25:48 > 0:25:52It's interesting what you were saying about being paranoid -
0:25:52 > 0:25:58and don't get me wrong, it might be going on in my head when I'm in public - I can't though.
0:25:58 > 0:26:02Music is so powerful to me that I don't even care!
0:26:02 > 0:26:05- I've got a drink in my hand and I'm going for it! - It's so much easier for girls!
0:26:05 > 0:26:11Do you think an R&B album can sustain being relentlessly dance-driven?
0:26:11 > 0:26:15- Chic pretty much went for that.- No, I don't think a really good R&B album
0:26:15 > 0:26:18can be relentlessly dance-driven nowadays.
0:26:18 > 0:26:23In the past, certainly. I think Chic were great, but even they had mellow moments.
0:26:23 > 0:26:24They had subtle moments.
0:26:24 > 0:26:27I think it's kind of boring if it's all dance.
0:26:27 > 0:26:31It's a dance record then, isn't it? It's not an R&B record!
0:26:31 > 0:26:35The reason I like talking about James Brown, James just never finished a record.
0:26:35 > 0:26:39- James is in there and he's making it up as he goes along.- I love it.
0:26:39 > 0:26:43You think, "What a groove he's got! But what crap lyrics he's put on there."
0:26:43 > 0:26:47Or "What great lyrics, but..." THEY ALL TALK AT ONCE
0:26:47 > 0:26:52That's it, and I believe it's core to what we're saying.
0:26:52 > 0:26:57When you've got an album like that, without bringing the dreary student to it,
0:26:57 > 0:27:00you would look and think, "Oh, Fred Wesley..."
0:27:00 > 0:27:02- "Oh, that's who they are!"- Right.
0:27:02 > 0:27:07All right, he copyrighted all of it, but you suddenly started looking and thinking
0:27:07 > 0:27:09"These aren't just slung together."
0:27:09 > 0:27:12- Literally the craft in them... - The layering and everything...
0:27:12 > 0:27:16Seeing Bootsy actually rehearsing, something like Earth, Wind & Fire,
0:27:16 > 0:27:19you can't imagine they're in their street clothes making this record
0:27:19 > 0:27:22as much as The Beatles putting Sgt Pepper together.
0:27:22 > 0:27:26You think it's a jam. You're thinking, "They've just thrown that together."
0:27:26 > 0:27:29- That was rehearsed. It's crazy. - I'd say polished.
0:27:29 > 0:27:35Can I just say something? And you were there, being the elder statesman...
0:27:35 > 0:27:38- It's like we're going round in ages! - Stay over there!
0:27:38 > 0:27:41Disco did kind of kill the R&B album, that disco era,
0:27:41 > 0:27:45because if you look back and you look at some of the great artists,
0:27:45 > 0:27:48not so much Stevie because he was a genius
0:27:48 > 0:27:50and he managed to still do Hotter than July
0:27:50 > 0:27:55when everyone else around him - Curtis and those guys, Marvin was struggling a bit -
0:27:55 > 0:27:59- all of them were struggling a bit. - Fallen off.- Yes, because of disco.
0:27:59 > 0:28:02And it kind of killed the R&B album for a little while.
0:28:02 > 0:28:06Donna Summer took it to... Bless her heart.
0:28:06 > 0:28:12Curtis Mayfield did a disastrous kind of disco-y album and made Sweet Exorcist.
0:28:12 > 0:28:15It's enough to be an R&B artist. You don't have to bandwagon-jump.
0:28:15 > 0:28:18And James Brown did a couple of real stinkers!
0:28:18 > 0:28:21A lot did go wrong in the '80s, to be fair.
0:28:21 > 0:28:24- Man alive, absolutely. - In every kind of conceivable way.
0:28:24 > 0:28:27I'm all for expunging it from the record book!
0:28:27 > 0:28:29For R&B, definitely!
0:28:29 > 0:28:32That's what happens when a new style comes in.
0:28:32 > 0:28:35- When a new style is coming in - - I don't like new styles.
0:28:35 > 0:28:39When a new genre's coming in and you have that little overlap, there's always a weird period.
0:28:39 > 0:28:42But the authenticity and roots should always be rediscovered.
0:28:42 > 0:28:47Somebody who did lose their way, and never found their way back, is my second selection.
0:28:47 > 0:28:51Somebody whose albums were crafted, she used to listen to producers,
0:28:51 > 0:28:54and they're virtually concept albums - Millie Jackson.
0:28:54 > 0:28:56Made two albums in the early '70s -
0:28:56 > 0:28:59Caught Up and Still Caught Up.
0:28:59 > 0:29:03Unfortunately, her reputation after that, when she was on album covers on the toilet... Sorry, folks!
0:29:03 > 0:29:07But nothing can take away from these albums. I'll choose the second one.
0:29:07 > 0:29:12Millie Jackson's Still Caught Up is a vocal performance par excellence.
0:29:12 > 0:29:15She interprets on this and it's a wonderful story.
0:29:15 > 0:29:18- It's a concept album. That's my second.- Can I have a look?
0:29:18 > 0:29:23- Sadly, disco came along and... - Ruined her. - Well, she went after the fast buck.
0:29:23 > 0:29:26The greatest R&B is often lyrically very expressive,
0:29:26 > 0:29:29eternally truthful, agonisingly personal,
0:29:29 > 0:29:31generic and yet profound.
0:29:31 > 0:29:34It is called soul for a reason.
0:29:36 > 0:29:40# Mother, mother... Thank you!
0:29:40 > 0:29:42# There's too many of you crying #
0:29:42 > 0:29:46Black musicians have often used their music to comment on the times.
0:29:46 > 0:29:50But the greatest of them took the particular and made it universal.
0:29:50 > 0:29:51# There's far too many
0:29:51 > 0:29:56- # Of you dying... # - # Brother, brother... #
0:29:56 > 0:30:01In the early 1970s, Marvin Gaye was moved by his brother Frankie's experiences in Vietnam,
0:30:01 > 0:30:03along with wider ecological concerns,
0:30:03 > 0:30:07to produce his passionate masterpiece What's Going On.
0:30:07 > 0:30:09# Father, father... #
0:30:09 > 0:30:12"If you want to send a message, call Western Union."
0:30:12 > 0:30:17That's a cynical adage that, thankfully, countless R&B artists have ignored.
0:30:17 > 0:30:19# A change is gonna come
0:30:20 > 0:30:22# Oh, yes it will #
0:30:22 > 0:30:26Even with an unpromising vehicle, the musical results could be spectacular.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29"This dude is bad!
0:30:29 > 0:30:31"And he ain't just fly,
0:30:31 > 0:30:33"he's super fly! Yeah!"
0:30:33 > 0:30:37# ..bad machine, super cool Super mean... #
0:30:37 > 0:30:41Curtis Mayfield's score for Blaxploitation move Super Fly
0:30:41 > 0:30:44definitely explored the moral pitfalls of inner-city life.
0:30:44 > 0:30:47# I'm your pusherman
0:30:48 > 0:30:51# I'm your pusherman #
0:30:55 > 0:30:57Poet Gil Scott-Heron
0:30:57 > 0:31:00already knew how to harness the power of the spoken word.
0:31:00 > 0:31:04His first studio album, Pieces of a Man,
0:31:04 > 0:31:07not only announced the arrival of an authoritative performer,
0:31:07 > 0:31:10but also offered an early blueprint for rap.
0:31:10 > 0:31:12# You will not be able to lose yourself on skag
0:31:12 > 0:31:14# And skip out for beer during commercials
0:31:14 > 0:31:17# Because the revolution Will not be televised #
0:31:17 > 0:31:20Black performers from successive generations
0:31:20 > 0:31:24have used the mental and physical space an album affords to push the music on.
0:31:24 > 0:31:27MUSIC: "Fight The Power" by Public Enemy
0:31:27 > 0:31:30- # Fight the power # - # Let me hear you say... #
0:31:30 > 0:31:33Public Enemy's third album, Fear of a Black Planet,
0:31:33 > 0:31:37took the force of James Brown's "Say It Loud I'm Black and I'm Proud"
0:31:37 > 0:31:42and retooled it as a comment on racism in the '90s.
0:31:42 > 0:31:45# Fight the power
0:31:46 > 0:31:49# Fight the power #
0:31:49 > 0:31:51Trevor, you touched on it earlier on,
0:31:51 > 0:31:54when did you actually realise,
0:31:54 > 0:31:57"I'm not just going to wear this as a mask of, er,
0:31:57 > 0:31:59"politics and comment",
0:31:59 > 0:32:01but this stuff has suddenly switched from
0:32:01 > 0:32:05"everything's uptight and out of sight" to, you know...?
0:32:05 > 0:32:09For me, my first school disco, I was DJing - that was my first gig ever -
0:32:09 > 0:32:12and the last song I played was Let's Get It On.
0:32:12 > 0:32:15To me, that was R&B. Let's Get It On. Love song.
0:32:15 > 0:32:18- You know...- I'm aware of the secret language there!
0:32:18 > 0:32:23I jumped down, had my first dance, singing it into the girl's ear! Didn't work.
0:32:23 > 0:32:26I thought it was love songs and a bit of dancing.
0:32:26 > 0:32:31And then I started really listening to, like, Gil Scott-Heron.
0:32:31 > 0:32:37"Who is this man?" The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, B-Movie...
0:32:37 > 0:32:39He was talking stuff that was very American
0:32:39 > 0:32:44and I couldn't relate to as a teenager, but I knew the politics.
0:32:44 > 0:32:47- James Brown's Say It Loud I'm Black and I'm Proud...- Yes!
0:32:47 > 0:32:49Massive tune at the time.
0:32:49 > 0:32:51- But again, America.- Yes.
0:32:51 > 0:32:53So as a black kid growing up in Hackney -
0:32:53 > 0:32:56it was a lovely place -
0:32:56 > 0:32:59"What's the problem over there?!"
0:32:59 > 0:33:01Marvin's What's Going On,
0:33:01 > 0:33:04which I never thought of as such a political song,
0:33:04 > 0:33:07I thought, "Lovely song." But you start listening...
0:33:07 > 0:33:11Stevie Wonder then started politicising, as well.
0:33:11 > 0:33:17The best artists have a knack of lulling you in and not being political to your ears.
0:33:17 > 0:33:21- You just listen to it and go, "That's a beautiful song."- Yes.
0:33:21 > 0:33:24Then, like a girl, you start listening to the lyrics!
0:33:24 > 0:33:26Because I was a beat man!
0:33:26 > 0:33:28I started thinking, "This is so powerful."
0:33:28 > 0:33:32So it was probably around the age of about 19, 20,
0:33:32 > 0:33:37just coming out of adolescence, I really started listening to the politics of R&B
0:33:37 > 0:33:41and realising that there were moments in time that were captured on vinyl
0:33:41 > 0:33:45that were absolutely priceless and historical.
0:33:45 > 0:33:48And they are now. We're still talking about them.
0:33:48 > 0:33:51As a black bloke yourself, did you feel possessive about that?
0:33:51 > 0:33:56You hear a bloke like me saying, "Oh, yeah, Back to the World, Curtis Mayfield..."
0:33:56 > 0:34:01"There is, without prejudice, a connection that I have that you wouldn't have."
0:34:01 > 0:34:02Oh, just as a black man.
0:34:02 > 0:34:05And I think the South African situation...
0:34:05 > 0:34:09- Yes.- ..which was put to music most powerfully...
0:34:09 > 0:34:11- Johannesburg.- Johannesburg!
0:34:11 > 0:34:13And Marley did, as well. Zimbabwe and things like that...
0:34:13 > 0:34:19It was different for me. The only reason I was conscious about it was because of my parents.
0:34:19 > 0:34:23My father, especially, because he was a proper music collector.
0:34:23 > 0:34:25So he got me into...
0:34:25 > 0:34:28- ..the whole political thing with Gil Scott-Heron.- Right.
0:34:28 > 0:34:31When he put that on, I couldn't have been more than 12,
0:34:31 > 0:34:33I remember hearing it, going
0:34:33 > 0:34:37"Wow! This guy's really angry!" I remember saying that!
0:34:37 > 0:34:41And then my dad went through the whole thing and explained.
0:34:41 > 0:34:43But it can go the other way, you see.
0:34:43 > 0:34:46- An outfit like The Last Poets, which I used to sell a lot of...- Yes!
0:34:46 > 0:34:50- ..the Last Poets didn't have- that - going on under them.
0:34:50 > 0:34:53I know it's shallow, but I could never really empathise with them
0:34:53 > 0:34:56- because that was hard-line.- Yes.
0:34:56 > 0:34:59But Gil Scott-Heron might've had just as much of a hard-line lyric
0:34:59 > 0:35:02- but the melodies are better.- Yes. - That's exactly what I'm saying.
0:35:02 > 0:35:05It's like Lennon said about Imagine, "You need to give people sugar."
0:35:05 > 0:35:08You can't just beat people over the head with it.
0:35:08 > 0:35:10There's nothing wrong with a bit of sugar.
0:35:10 > 0:35:13But when you think, you know, as historians now,
0:35:13 > 0:35:19you think that came in, because it seemed just after the hippies and everything else...
0:35:19 > 0:35:23- Early '70s.- The very early '70s. Probably What's Going On...
0:35:23 > 0:35:26The Stax period, there was this, erm,
0:35:26 > 0:35:29you know, when Martin Luther King was assassinated,
0:35:29 > 0:35:33I took a trip to Memphis and the old Stax Museum and stuff,
0:35:33 > 0:35:38I heard the story of Steve Cropper and got to meet David Porter and Isaac Hayes, rest in peace,
0:35:38 > 0:35:41and they were telling me about the day they found out
0:35:41 > 0:35:43and what it meant to Memphis and...
0:35:43 > 0:35:48- It's different for us because we've always imported our soul music. - That's right.
0:35:48 > 0:35:50It's difficult for a kid to really connect.
0:35:50 > 0:35:55You can talk about it. And some of the biggest soul fans were white in this country.
0:35:55 > 0:35:59The people who owned all the fanzines were white. They were writing about -
0:35:59 > 0:36:02I think most people are staggered to find out
0:36:02 > 0:36:07- a good deal of the Stax musicians were white.- Of course they were.
0:36:07 > 0:36:08I tell you what, Danny,
0:36:08 > 0:36:12the first time I truly could say I lived through a connection was hip-hop.
0:36:12 > 0:36:15- That happened in the '80s.- Really?
0:36:15 > 0:36:18What do you mean when you say connection?
0:36:18 > 0:36:22There was a birth of a movement while I was,
0:36:22 > 0:36:24you know, 15, 16.
0:36:24 > 0:36:27- Young enough to get it. - Young enough to be right there.
0:36:27 > 0:36:31I think it makes a big difference if you're there.
0:36:31 > 0:36:33- Really?- I really do. - I disagree with that,
0:36:33 > 0:36:37only from the standpoint that it's all about where you were brought up.
0:36:37 > 0:36:41With me, because my father was so conscious,
0:36:41 > 0:36:43my dad was really on-point with that,
0:36:43 > 0:36:47- so we got the drilling from when we were 12.- Mm.
0:36:47 > 0:36:51As I said, it was Gil, then it was Curtis, then Marvin.
0:36:51 > 0:36:57He would go through each album and say, "This is what's happening in America."
0:36:57 > 0:36:59- He was hard-core.- Like a professor! - He was.
0:36:59 > 0:37:03He was my introduction to music. He's the reason I began to sing.
0:37:03 > 0:37:08Nobody could be overwhelming in that because you cannot stop your toes tapping
0:37:08 > 0:37:12and feeling, "I know I should be more dedicated to this" rather like in punk rock,
0:37:12 > 0:37:15some of the best songs had love lyrics,
0:37:15 > 0:37:19do you then go through that phase and come out the other side - the politicising - thinking,
0:37:19 > 0:37:23- "That was a stage of my life but I find that hard to listen to?"- Yes!
0:37:23 > 0:37:26Can you listen now and think, "Sounds a bit..."
0:37:26 > 0:37:30I've got an album in my box right now we're going to probably talk about at some point,
0:37:30 > 0:37:35that I say I can only listen to on certain days,
0:37:35 > 0:37:37when I'm in a certain mood.
0:37:37 > 0:37:40That's what makes me wonder, "Is it one of my classic albums?"
0:37:40 > 0:37:45- I think a classic album should be listened to at any time of the day. - At any time.
0:37:45 > 0:37:48We'll refer to the Wall of Sound. You've all got three with you.
0:37:48 > 0:37:50- But also... Sorry.- Go on.
0:37:50 > 0:37:53The classic album thing,
0:37:53 > 0:37:57half your brain goes, "What's an important album? but half goes, "What do I like?"
0:37:57 > 0:38:01If you're being really honest, it's only personal,
0:38:01 > 0:38:03- all art is only personal. - Absolutely.
0:38:03 > 0:38:05That's what this programme is about.
0:38:05 > 0:38:10- Even if it's not a cool album... - "What did it do to you?"
0:38:10 > 0:38:13- Just be honest. - It's a lot more scary to be honest
0:38:13 > 0:38:16because you'll have uncool things in there.
0:38:16 > 0:38:19I could sing in the bath, if you can get that vision out of your mind,
0:38:19 > 0:38:22I have no connection to it, but I can sit in the bath going
0:38:22 > 0:38:25# A boy is born In hard-time Mississippi... #
0:38:25 > 0:38:27completely divorced from what he's saying.
0:38:27 > 0:38:31The problem is, when you see another artist sing those songs now,
0:38:31 > 0:38:33it's like he's divorced from it, as well!
0:38:33 > 0:38:37When you hear McCartney doing Blackbird you think, "You know you wrote this?"
0:38:37 > 0:38:42Sometimes it becomes cabaret. It becomes showbiz. It's scary when that happens.
0:38:42 > 0:38:46And all of this is part of the trudge towards the grave...
0:38:46 > 0:38:47Oh, don't...!
0:38:47 > 0:38:52Just as rock musicians in the late '60s looked at the album to stretch themselves
0:38:52 > 0:38:55and say plenty of things, no matter how banal,
0:38:55 > 0:38:57so too did African-American musicians
0:38:57 > 0:39:02begin to explore the conceptual possibilities of the long-player as never before.
0:39:02 > 0:39:07MUSIC: "Tracks of my Tears" by Smokey Robinson and the Miracles"
0:39:07 > 0:39:10In the mid-'60s, the main focus for the great R&B labels,
0:39:10 > 0:39:12such as Atlantic, Chess, Stax and Motown,
0:39:12 > 0:39:14was the single.
0:39:14 > 0:39:16# It's easy to trace
0:39:16 > 0:39:20# The tracks of my tears #
0:39:20 > 0:39:22With smooth love ballads such as Tracks of my Tears,
0:39:22 > 0:39:25Motown's The Miracles showed how adept they were
0:39:25 > 0:39:29at turning out radio-friendly hits.
0:39:29 > 0:39:33But as the '60s progressed, some acts began to see albums
0:39:33 > 0:39:37as more than just a compilation of singles and filler tracks.
0:39:40 > 0:39:44One of the most significant game-changers was Isaac Hayes.
0:39:44 > 0:39:48When Stax Records lost their back catalogue to distributors Atlantic,
0:39:48 > 0:39:52they rallied by releasing 27 LPs simultaneously. Hooray!
0:39:52 > 0:39:55# ..you put the hurt on me
0:39:55 > 0:39:58# You socked it to me, Momma #
0:39:58 > 0:40:00The most successful of these was Hot Buttered Soul
0:40:00 > 0:40:04which featured only four tracks, including Walk On By,
0:40:04 > 0:40:06none of which were intended as singles.
0:40:07 > 0:40:14The album was a hit on the R&B, pop, jazz and easy-listening charts.
0:40:15 > 0:40:18"New York! Just like I pictured it."
0:40:18 > 0:40:19# ..just enough
0:40:19 > 0:40:22# For the city #
0:40:22 > 0:40:24It was also an object lesson for Motown,
0:40:24 > 0:40:28who had embraced the new decade with a slew of classic albums,
0:40:28 > 0:40:30not least Stevie Wonder,
0:40:30 > 0:40:33who had an unbeatable run of classics in the early '70s...
0:40:34 > 0:40:37# To find a job
0:40:37 > 0:40:40# Is like a haystack needle #
0:40:40 > 0:40:42..recording at the Electric Lady Studios in New York,
0:40:42 > 0:40:47where the enormous TONTO synthesiser gave songs like Living for the City an edge,
0:40:47 > 0:40:51which supported the serious concept behind the music.
0:40:58 > 0:41:01Missed out Fulfillingness' First Finale from the Stevie run there.
0:41:01 > 0:41:04- Did they put in Music of My Mind? - It was right there.
0:41:04 > 0:41:07Something happened between that period,
0:41:07 > 0:41:10in rock terms, between Woodstock and the Sex Pistols,
0:41:10 > 0:41:13when all these new genres were suddenly pulled out of the air,
0:41:13 > 0:41:18whether it was heavy rock, hard rock, folk rock, glam rock,
0:41:18 > 0:41:22- all of these. And in R&B... - Brighton Rock.
0:41:22 > 0:41:24..suddenly, this second rise of Motown,
0:41:24 > 0:41:28from being this finger-popping single station, started putting out albums.
0:41:28 > 0:41:32It's a wonderful thing. Of course, the two cornerstones being Marvin and Stevie.
0:41:32 > 0:41:36- How did affect you?- Well, I mean, not at the time it didn't,
0:41:36 > 0:41:41but retrospectively, when I was a teenager, it blew my mind.
0:41:41 > 0:41:43- That's an odd thing - - I love the Motown scene.
0:41:43 > 0:41:46The Motown sound from '63 to '67,
0:41:46 > 0:41:48the production line, just faultless.
0:41:48 > 0:41:52As pop music, as chart music, just beautiful and hard to beat.
0:41:52 > 0:41:55But once those people started to use Motown
0:41:55 > 0:42:00basically as a distributor, once they came of age artistically,
0:42:00 > 0:42:03I don't think there's been anything like it.
0:42:03 > 0:42:05What really annoys me, when people try to sum up a decade
0:42:05 > 0:42:10they always go with the lowest common denominator, like, "The '70s, wasn't it awful?"
0:42:10 > 0:42:15- I know!- No, it wasn't. No-one mentions Stevie Wonder, Gil Scott-Heron, Marvin Gaye!
0:42:15 > 0:42:21Ridiculous records being made by great artists, and they never got better than that.
0:42:21 > 0:42:23It's almost like there was a maturity
0:42:23 > 0:42:27when they decided to come out of Motown and do their own thing.
0:42:27 > 0:42:32There was a maturity, almost like, "We can finally write the songs
0:42:32 > 0:42:36"without it having to be the chorus every time so that the radio can hear it."
0:42:36 > 0:42:41I think, Mica, particularly in R&B where there had been a pressure and tradition
0:42:41 > 0:42:44of all wearing the same-coloured suits,
0:42:44 > 0:42:49I think they thought, "These rock guys don't have to do that. They just go out there."
0:42:49 > 0:42:52- And they all did it.- Everyone!
0:42:52 > 0:42:55If you think, Marvin, Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder...
0:42:55 > 0:42:58- The Temptations.- ..when they came out, they just went nuts.
0:42:58 > 0:43:00They may've been geniuses, but they were boy bands.
0:43:00 > 0:43:04Do you know what this is all about? Clout.
0:43:04 > 0:43:07- Yes.- It's like, "You've sold so many records,
0:43:07 > 0:43:09"we're renegotiating your deal..."
0:43:09 > 0:43:13If you look back in history, most of these guys made their conceptual albums
0:43:13 > 0:43:16at the point that Berry Gordy had to say,
0:43:16 > 0:43:18"OK, we're going to renew your contract now."
0:43:18 > 0:43:22They could say, "If you want me, I've got to do what I've got to do."
0:43:22 > 0:43:28If you notice, all the conceptual albums are made by incredibly established musicians.
0:43:28 > 0:43:31No-one was signed based on a conceptual album.
0:43:31 > 0:43:35- No way!- "Excuse me. I've got this great idea, Berry. Can you sign me?" No way!
0:43:35 > 0:43:39- They've had a string of 50 hits. - You could even go to George Michael.
0:43:39 > 0:43:43When he left Wham! he suddenly became this amazing talent.
0:43:43 > 0:43:46Do you think, Trevor, that is,
0:43:46 > 0:43:49let's knock the old term around again, genius?
0:43:49 > 0:43:52Because What's Going On seems to come out of nowhere,
0:43:52 > 0:43:54as does Music of My Mind.
0:43:54 > 0:43:58Nobody saw that coming. It doesn't seem to have any antecedents,
0:43:58 > 0:44:00it doesn't seem to be anything that anyone else is going to do.
0:44:00 > 0:44:06The sound, the very sound of those records, is so complete and finished.
0:44:06 > 0:44:11The scariest thing is, they are genius, but they may not have happened.
0:44:11 > 0:44:13Berry tried to stop What's Going On.
0:44:13 > 0:44:16- He tried to stop bloody Songs in the Key of Life!- He did.
0:44:16 > 0:44:20I don't blame him, as a record company boss, to be scared.
0:44:20 > 0:44:25They cost a lot of money to make, they spent a load of studio time messing about,
0:44:25 > 0:44:28having the best musicians hanging around.
0:44:28 > 0:44:33They're very expensive masturbation projects, in a sense. Dare I use that term?
0:44:33 > 0:44:35If you know what I mean.
0:44:35 > 0:44:40It's almost like they were... You're right when you say that they peaked.
0:44:40 > 0:44:45But all of that time at Motown was necessary for honing their skills.
0:44:45 > 0:44:49If you think about it, it really was a time of learning the craft.
0:44:49 > 0:44:53As much as it was very manufactured, it was honing their skills.
0:44:53 > 0:44:58You're a fan of The Funk Brothers, right? I loved your doc on The Funk Brothers.
0:44:58 > 0:45:00It's a production line, Motown.
0:45:00 > 0:45:05- Unfortunately, whether you're Gladys Knight, whoever you are, you're in a pecking order.- Yes.
0:45:05 > 0:45:08Someone writes a song and it goes down the pecking order.
0:45:08 > 0:45:11- Gladys Knight should get it, but Diana Ross gets it.- Yes.
0:45:11 > 0:45:14So you want freedom! You want to stand away from the pack.
0:45:14 > 0:45:18- Isaac Hayes wrote loads of hits for other people.- He did.
0:45:18 > 0:45:22When Isaac was at Stax, he was like, "I want to make a conceptual album."
0:45:22 > 0:45:26- No-one's going to say no because he's so important.- Right.
0:45:26 > 0:45:31I was listening to Jerry Wexler talking, as he was discussing before,
0:45:31 > 0:45:36and Jerry Wexler said, "Motown make singles for white teenagers."
0:45:36 > 0:45:40Atlantic were struggling. There weren't a lot of albums shifting.
0:45:40 > 0:45:44Aretha's albums were respected, but they weren't shifting a lot.
0:45:44 > 0:45:47We needed white rock groups, we needed Yes and Led Zeppelin,
0:45:47 > 0:45:50Crosby, Stills & Nash and The Stones to come in on Atlantic
0:45:50 > 0:45:55so we could have these vanity projects and say, "They've got their own credibility,
0:45:55 > 0:46:00"but if you want to keep making these albums, we have to get some do-re-mi."
0:46:00 > 0:46:02Such an important point
0:46:02 > 0:46:07that people never, ever imagine was the reason for the funding of half of these albums.
0:46:07 > 0:46:11No boss would say, "I'm going to make an album with no hits on it.
0:46:11 > 0:46:14"It'll be my artistic statement." Swallows something jagged...
0:46:14 > 0:46:18Berry Gordy was freaking out. He really lost it.
0:46:18 > 0:46:23When he first heard What's Going On, he was like, "This is undanceable. This is meandering rubbish."
0:46:23 > 0:46:28Did you "get" What's Going On as soon as you heard it?
0:46:28 > 0:46:32I bought it when I was 16 from Kingston, probably Beggars Banquet or maybe Our Price,
0:46:32 > 0:46:35and, er, before then,
0:46:35 > 0:46:38because it's one of the pillars of modern music,
0:46:38 > 0:46:41I thought, "I'd really better like this."
0:46:41 > 0:46:44And I didn't realise it was all kind of one song-suite.
0:46:44 > 0:46:49I didn't realise it was going to be a segue-way, each song into the other.
0:46:49 > 0:46:54And I felt really bad, I felt real Catholic guilt for not loving it immediately.
0:46:54 > 0:46:58I thought, "I love that song and I love that song, but I'm not sure if I do love it yet."
0:46:58 > 0:47:02You think, "I better train myself to love this or I won't be a good person."
0:47:02 > 0:47:04And I do love it
0:47:04 > 0:47:07- but it took me a few listens. - It's a complete change!
0:47:07 > 0:47:11Sometimes the reputation of an album is assured.
0:47:11 > 0:47:14- Again...- This is the hardest thing - - ..I love "I Want You".
0:47:14 > 0:47:18- I think it's a lovely album. - But isn't it hard? Think about it like this.
0:47:18 > 0:47:20It's almost like when you see a child actor.
0:47:20 > 0:47:26You've always seen as a child actor and then you see them as a grown up. It's very hard to adjust.
0:47:26 > 0:47:30You've been used to Marvin Gaye singing "It Takes Two"
0:47:30 > 0:47:32and then suddenly...
0:47:32 > 0:47:35You're like, "Hang on a minute!" It's crazy!
0:47:35 > 0:47:39We're at a disadvantage, knowing the sociological and Vietnam War made him do it.
0:47:39 > 0:47:42This is what I'm saying! I keep harking on about this!
0:47:42 > 0:47:45You asked Martin how he felt when he got it.
0:47:45 > 0:47:51I felt exactly... Let's Get It On, for me, was my Marvin Gaye tune and album.
0:47:51 > 0:47:56- It's a great album.- Shocking. - As far as I was concerned, that there was me.
0:47:56 > 0:48:00What's Going On - nice tune. Inner City - nice tune.
0:48:00 > 0:48:04- It took me a couple of years to marry the whole thing together.- Really?!
0:48:04 > 0:48:07My third selection is going to be the handmaiden to it,
0:48:07 > 0:48:10an album that I fell in love with immediately
0:48:10 > 0:48:15and, let's face it, was made with the help of two odd-looking German Moog players.
0:48:15 > 0:48:18But the extraordinary word and, no pun intended,
0:48:18 > 0:48:24the vision that Stevie Wonder had to start this extraordinary thing where he sent this message out,
0:48:24 > 0:48:26you know what - you can make any damn record you want!
0:48:26 > 0:48:29- But there was that period there, wasn't there?- This period.
0:48:29 > 0:48:33Music of My Mind is every bit the album that What's Going On is.
0:48:33 > 0:48:35You don't have to play them off against each other.
0:48:35 > 0:48:38It never ceases to amaze me that Quincy Jones,
0:48:38 > 0:48:42that hepcat jazzer, palling around with Ray Charles in the 1940s,
0:48:42 > 0:48:48was also the sonic scientist smoothly producing Michael Jackson's Thriller in 1982.
0:48:48 > 0:48:49How can that be?
0:48:49 > 0:48:54But then it seems that R&B just doesn't quite work like other forms of popular music.
0:49:01 > 0:49:04Scratch the vinyl on an R&B album
0:49:04 > 0:49:07and you'll discover a kind of collective musical DNA,
0:49:07 > 0:49:12a strand which includes blues, soul and funk.
0:49:12 > 0:49:15As influential performers like Sly and the Family Stone,
0:49:15 > 0:49:20seen here performing "I Wanna Take You Higher" in 1969 demonstrates,
0:49:20 > 0:49:25R&B seems able to hold onto its past while redefining its future.
0:49:32 > 0:49:36A young British band, named after a Muddy Waters song,
0:49:36 > 0:49:41had their first big hit with "It's All Over Now", a song by R&B great Bobby Womack.
0:49:41 > 0:49:44# But it's all over now #
0:49:45 > 0:49:50Rock'n'roll is a white version of rhythm and blues, OK?
0:49:50 > 0:49:53This is not no prejudice thing, so don't go there.
0:49:53 > 0:49:57The Stones' first album took the blues to a new white audience
0:49:57 > 0:50:02and then reignited interest in the original rhythm and bluesmen they were imitating.
0:50:02 > 0:50:07# I used to love her But it's all over now #
0:50:10 > 0:50:15Shuggie Otis was the son of legendary bandleader Johnny Otis
0:50:15 > 0:50:17and had played guitar as a teen with all the R&B greats.
0:50:17 > 0:50:22He would turn down a place in The Rolling Stones to develop his own sound.
0:50:22 > 0:50:26MUSIC: "Aht Uh Mi Hed" by Shuggie Otis
0:50:26 > 0:50:28His brilliant trippy third album
0:50:28 > 0:50:31not only updated his musical lineage,
0:50:31 > 0:50:34but his "I can pretty much do everything myself" approach
0:50:34 > 0:50:38was also an obvious inspiration to a youthful Prince.
0:50:40 > 0:50:43# I never meant to cause you Any pain... #
0:50:45 > 0:50:48The R&B continuum is most obvious in Prince himself.
0:50:48 > 0:50:52Artist and producer, he performs it, records his favourite R&B stars
0:50:52 > 0:50:56and updates it with his own style.
0:50:56 > 0:50:57# ..a skinny man
0:50:57 > 0:51:00# Died of a big disease With a little name #
0:51:00 > 0:51:05With his album Sign 'O' The Times, he paid homage to his influences
0:51:05 > 0:51:07while moving the music on.
0:51:07 > 0:51:10MUSIC: "Me, Myself and I" by De La Soul
0:51:10 > 0:51:13# It's just me, myself and I #
0:51:13 > 0:51:16And of course, hip-hop acts like De La Soul,
0:51:16 > 0:51:18knee-deep in an old funkadelic groove,
0:51:18 > 0:51:22have plundered the R&B back catalogue to give new life -
0:51:22 > 0:51:25and royalty cheques - to ageing performers.
0:51:27 > 0:51:29# You say plug one and two Are hippies
0:51:29 > 0:51:31# No, we're not That's pure plug bull... #
0:51:31 > 0:51:35Trevor, do you think it will always reinvigorate itself?
0:51:35 > 0:51:39Do you think R&B... Let me put it this way, do you fear for it
0:51:39 > 0:51:44or do you think it's in good health, as you know it?
0:51:44 > 0:51:49OK, seeing as I'm active, playing everything that's come out,
0:51:49 > 0:51:52- I'd say it's not in good health. - Why is that?
0:51:52 > 0:51:57Because the term has been used and abused in a way that it's uncontrollable.
0:51:57 > 0:52:00I mean, David Guetta does a tune with an R&B singer,
0:52:00 > 0:52:02is that R&B, you know?
0:52:02 > 0:52:07Calvin Harris, I like his stuff, does a tune with an R&B vocalist. Is that R&B?
0:52:07 > 0:52:12And then kids are going, "I've got the latest R&B tune!" and it's 130bpm.
0:52:12 > 0:52:18Whereas Frank Ocean comes along and Miguel and these guys, and they're bringing it back to...
0:52:18 > 0:52:21Frank Ocean is a guy I really like.
0:52:21 > 0:52:24He's done what someone like D'Angelo did 15 years ago.
0:52:24 > 0:52:30- Absolutely.- So it's soul, I'd call it, rather than R&B at this point.
0:52:30 > 0:52:32It just always comes back.
0:52:32 > 0:52:36If ever you're in doubt, whenever X Factor do their R&B night, that'll be it!
0:52:36 > 0:52:38You get me!
0:52:38 > 0:52:42You know what you said earlier about that lapse,
0:52:42 > 0:52:46that point where disco came in and it all went pear-shaped...?
0:52:46 > 0:52:50- I love disco.- You know what I mean. - It's a bit like that at the moment. - It's a little bit like that.
0:52:50 > 0:52:52That's where we're at.
0:52:52 > 0:52:57But I've made a similar point in the other shows we've done like this,
0:52:57 > 0:52:59that it was never for everyone. Yes, it's a mass music,
0:52:59 > 0:53:04but the people who talk about it, like us, either you do that or you don't.
0:53:04 > 0:53:08Some people can breeze through life, "Oh, I think I know that" in a way that we couldn't...
0:53:08 > 0:53:12I know certainly, Martin, if someone said, "I think I know that album!"
0:53:12 > 0:53:17What do you mean, you 'think'?" So it is about us, as well, rather than the bigger picture.
0:53:17 > 0:53:22You're steeped in it in a way that perhaps eight-out-of-ten people aren't.
0:53:22 > 0:53:25They're definitely not. And that's no accusation on them.
0:53:25 > 0:53:30- But it's still a specialist music somehow.- Yes.
0:53:30 > 0:53:34We're talking about some of the biggest names in recorded music,
0:53:34 > 0:53:38but when you're talking about albums and other artists slightly off-tangent,
0:53:38 > 0:53:40people don't know!
0:53:40 > 0:53:45Earlier, when I brought out the Bill Withers, there was a frisson around here of,
0:53:45 > 0:53:48"Oh, we're playing deep, are we? We're serious about this!"
0:53:48 > 0:53:51That's nice. It's a wonderful thing to talk about.
0:53:51 > 0:53:56But now the proof of the pudding, the fun part of the evening, the Wall of Sound behind me...
0:53:56 > 0:54:00I've suggested some up the top. Pretty good fellas to me.
0:54:00 > 0:54:05- Trevor, what have you brought? - Stevie Wonder is a genius. He deserves two up there.
0:54:05 > 0:54:09That may've been the beginning, Music of my Mind. But this...
0:54:09 > 0:54:12- Yes.- Is zenith the right word? - Zenith - the culmination.
0:54:12 > 0:54:14It makes me laugh, smile, cry.
0:54:14 > 0:54:18I said great albums should be able to be played at any time of day.
0:54:18 > 0:54:20There's never a time I don't want to hear that.
0:54:20 > 0:54:22We haven't talked about soundtracks.
0:54:22 > 0:54:26There was a great era in the '70s for Blaxploitation films where the soundtrack was better than the movie.
0:54:26 > 0:54:30- We haven't mentioned Curtis Mayfield. - No!- Not enough, anyway.
0:54:30 > 0:54:36- Criminal! Super Fly, surely the best film score ever in soul music?! - You bet.
0:54:36 > 0:54:39I think so. I love it. Super Fly, Curtis Mayfield.
0:54:39 > 0:54:43And political, as well. Hip-hop... You know.
0:54:43 > 0:54:47A lot of people say it has no place here, but I believe it has when it's made like this.
0:54:47 > 0:54:52Probably the second greatest hip-hop album ever made, or third, after Public Enemy and Nas.
0:54:52 > 0:54:55But for the sake of this show and people watching this show,
0:54:55 > 0:55:01I think they'll appreciate this because it's a combination of jazz, poetic lyrics.
0:55:01 > 0:55:05There are a few messages, but I never get tired of listening to this.
0:55:05 > 0:55:08- A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory.- Cool.
0:55:08 > 0:55:12I'll fight you over ODB later, but there you go!
0:55:12 > 0:55:16- Mica, what have you got? - Basically, for me,
0:55:16 > 0:55:19when I became quite conscious about what was happening in America,
0:55:19 > 0:55:23my father gave me the whole rundown and this was what he really played and told me about.
0:55:23 > 0:55:28That was a powerful point in my life, coming out of church and hearing it.
0:55:28 > 0:55:30This was my first secular album that I'd ever listened to.
0:55:30 > 0:55:33- The rest of the world fell in step there.- Absolutely.
0:55:33 > 0:55:37And then when I got into Barry White,
0:55:37 > 0:55:41why I got into that was the production. I'd never heard strings like that.
0:55:41 > 0:55:45I was blown away by hearing R&B sounding so epic.
0:55:45 > 0:55:49- It is.- It was a fantastic sound. - Cinematic dance floor.
0:55:49 > 0:55:51This is when I started to dream about doing this.
0:55:51 > 0:55:54So he was an important part of my life.
0:55:54 > 0:55:57Didn't mind the videos, as well. The videos were fantastic.
0:55:57 > 0:55:59- Very funny. - White suits and fluffy curls!
0:55:59 > 0:56:02And then, obviously,
0:56:02 > 0:56:05- Prince, for me...- Yes.- Phenomenal.
0:56:05 > 0:56:08Basically, he completely changed the style of R&B
0:56:08 > 0:56:14in terms of taking it away from being massively produced and sounding really big and epic,
0:56:14 > 0:56:16he made it all simple but still effective and powerful.
0:56:16 > 0:56:20Also, speaking about things at that time that most people were speaking about,
0:56:20 > 0:56:25about Aids being the new disease and all of these other things that were happening...
0:56:25 > 0:56:28Everyone was talking about these things and he put that all in song.
0:56:28 > 0:56:30He made extraordinary, fascinating music. Fantastic.
0:56:30 > 0:56:34- He's fascinating himself. - That's my favourite. Still got it.
0:56:34 > 0:56:37- Martin, what are you left with? - I'm left with...
0:56:37 > 0:56:40What these two have left me with...
0:56:40 > 0:56:43- Plenty!- They've all been stolen. - I'm sorry.- That's all right.
0:56:43 > 0:56:46- Now we're agreeing. - There's not enough women.
0:56:46 > 0:56:50Aretha - Lady Soul from 1968. Just beautiful.
0:56:50 > 0:56:53Her voice has never sounded better. The band are brilliant.
0:56:53 > 0:56:56- There's Bobby Womack, Clapton... Phenomenal record!- Cornerstone.
0:56:56 > 0:56:59I nearly swore then, Danny, that's how good it is!
0:56:59 > 0:57:01This one, 1970, '71...
0:57:01 > 0:57:04Oh, Donny Hathaway! Well done!
0:57:04 > 0:57:08Part of the thing about a great record or a great artist,
0:57:08 > 0:57:12part of it is the songs. He's got really good songs that he's written.
0:57:12 > 0:57:15But it's the sound. He's got a monstrous sound on this record.
0:57:15 > 0:57:20- It's deep.- The live albums... Oh! - That Fender-Rhodes business... It is a ridiculous record.
0:57:20 > 0:57:23Beautiful. And he's a beautiful singer.
0:57:23 > 0:57:27I'll choose this one - Make It Happen by Smokey Robinson and the Miracles.
0:57:27 > 0:57:30It was reissued three years later as Tears of a Clown
0:57:30 > 0:57:32when Tamla Motown released it in 1970.
0:57:32 > 0:57:38This is '67. It was about the third Motown record I ever bought, when I was 15.
0:57:38 > 0:57:41And it's Smokey Robinson at his best.
0:57:41 > 0:57:44Beautiful voice. Beautiful writer. Love this record.
0:57:44 > 0:57:50Do you know what? Very good! You just stole the show with your selections there!
0:57:50 > 0:57:55I'm allowed one, because it seems to be a rib-tickling concept that it'll be a Baker's Dozen up there.
0:57:55 > 0:57:59I'm going to go for what I consider my favourite and one of the best ever R&B albums,
0:57:59 > 0:58:01Al Green's Call Me.
0:58:01 > 0:58:05And I'll tell you why. Because I don't know.
0:58:05 > 0:58:07I think a lot of R&B particularly, if someone says,
0:58:07 > 0:58:11"Why do you love it?" you go, "I don't know."
0:58:11 > 0:58:13And that, my friends, is music.
0:58:13 > 0:58:15So there it is, a thing of wonder.
0:58:15 > 0:58:18Tremble under their R&B might, everybody!
0:58:18 > 0:58:2313 "12-by-12" pieces of cardboard that are anything but square.
0:58:23 > 0:58:27I think it was Russell Thompson of The Stylistics who put it best when he said,
0:58:27 > 0:58:29# Thank you, baby! #
0:58:29 > 0:58:33- Thank you very much indeed, Trevor. - Thank you.- Thank you, Mica.
0:58:33 > 0:58:35- And thank you, Martin.- Thank you.
0:58:35 > 0:58:37There you go, Marvin Gaye.
0:58:37 > 0:58:41After decades of asking "What's going on?" we just told you.
0:58:41 > 0:58:44I hope it's been of some help. Thank you for watching. Good night.
0:58:44 > 0:58:46MUSIC: "One Nation under a Groove" by Parliament Funkadelic
0:58:46 > 0:58:50Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd