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0:00:14 > 0:00:16- Wynne Mel, or Wynne Melville Jones.
0:00:17 > 0:00:21- A well-known public relations - and marketing expert ...
0:00:21 > 0:00:25- ..and creator of one - of Wales's best-known mascots.
0:00:26 > 0:00:30- The icon revitalized the Urdd, - led it through a fraught time...
0:00:31 > 0:00:35- ..and turned it into one of Europe's - most successful youth movements.
0:00:36 > 0:00:38- This is Mistar Urdd's story.
0:00:39 > 0:00:41- 888
0:00:46 > 0:00:48- 888
0:00:49 > 0:00:54- My father founded the Urdd because - the Welsh language was in decline.
0:00:54 > 0:00:57- He saw young people - turning their back on Welsh.
0:00:58 > 0:01:01- At that time, it was the language - of chapel and the Eisteddfod...
0:01:02 > 0:01:04- ..not the language of play.
0:01:04 > 0:01:07- In 1922, - in the magazine Cymru'r Plant...
0:01:08 > 0:01:12- ..Sir Ifan ab Owen Edwards invited - children to join a new movement...
0:01:13 > 0:01:15- ..Urdd Gobaith Cymru Fach.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18- By 1930, there were - twenty branches in Wales.
0:01:18 > 0:01:22- From being a magazine movement, - the Urdd had grown...
0:01:23 > 0:01:26- ..but with a shorter name, - Urdd Gobaith Cymru.
0:01:26 > 0:01:29- Summer camps were set up - in Llanuwchllyn, Llangrannog...
0:01:29 > 0:01:31- ..and Porth Dinllaen.
0:01:31 > 0:01:37- The Urdd's first National Eisteddfod - was held in Corwen in 1929.
0:01:37 > 0:01:41- By the 1940s, a new triangular - logo had been designed.
0:01:42 > 0:01:45- Over the years, - the movement's activities evolved.
0:01:45 > 0:01:50- But the development wasn't reflected - in the movement's organization.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54- I was away at school - in Reading when I was 13.
0:01:54 > 0:01:59- I decided I would return to live in - Aberystwyth after attending college.
0:01:59 > 0:02:01- I returned in 1965.
0:02:02 > 0:02:06- My father ruled, with many who had - been with the Urdd from the start.
0:02:07 > 0:02:11- The Urdd was getting old, - and I wanted to see a change.
0:02:11 > 0:02:15- The older generation wasn't - really aware of what was going on...
0:02:15 > 0:02:18- ..in the world of young people.
0:02:18 > 0:02:20- They carried on as they always had.
0:02:21 > 0:02:25- They received vital help - for the Urdd from the establishment.
0:02:26 > 0:02:31- The young people didn't - really have a voice...
0:02:32 > 0:02:34- ..nor did the local Urdd branches.
0:02:34 > 0:02:39- That eventually led - to a kind of rebellion.
0:02:42 > 0:02:47- This unease reached a climax in the - period before the 1969 Investiture.
0:02:50 > 0:02:54- It became clear the Urdd would - be invited to the Investiture.
0:02:57 > 0:02:59- Many of us weren't happy about this.
0:03:00 > 0:03:05- The attitude of the Urdd's - staff and volunteers...
0:03:05 > 0:03:08- ..was typical of the 1960s.
0:03:09 > 0:03:13- They wouldn't stay in the Urdd - if it was represented in Caernarfon.
0:03:14 > 0:03:16- Something had to be done.
0:03:16 > 0:03:20- I was young, my father was old. - I had great respect for him.
0:03:21 > 0:03:26- But I disagreed with him about the - Investiture. I didn't want to go.
0:03:26 > 0:03:28- The young people didn't want to go.
0:03:28 > 0:03:32- A petition was organized - amongst members.
0:03:32 > 0:03:34- Thousands signed it.
0:03:35 > 0:03:36- It became clear...
0:03:36 > 0:03:41- ..even to the older generation - who ran the Urdd...
0:03:41 > 0:03:46- ..that they couldn't dare go - to the Investiture in Caernarfon.
0:03:46 > 0:03:48- I tried all kinds of compromise.
0:03:48 > 0:03:53- Prince Charles came for supper - one evening to discuss the subject.
0:03:53 > 0:03:56- I asked him to cancel - the Investiture - a stupid request.
0:03:57 > 0:04:01- But I was young and prepared - to ask. He refused, of course.
0:04:01 > 0:04:04- I was willing to compromise, - for the Urdd's sake.
0:04:05 > 0:04:08- Two meetings of - the Urdd Council were held.
0:04:08 > 0:04:12- The first voted in favour - of going to the Investiture.
0:04:12 > 0:04:16- The second meeting - voted against going...
0:04:17 > 0:04:22- ..but to welcome the Prince - if he wanted to visit...
0:04:22 > 0:04:25- ..the National Eisteddfod - in Aberystwyth...
0:04:25 > 0:04:30- ..and Glan-llyn, - the day after the Investiture.
0:04:30 > 0:04:34- I shall now invite - Prince Charles to the stage.
0:04:34 > 0:04:37- APPLAUSE
0:04:39 > 0:04:43- At the end of the 1960s, - I was fortunate enough...
0:04:43 > 0:04:47- ..to be appointed Urdd Organizer - in Carmarthenshire.
0:04:48 > 0:04:52- I decided to visit - the Eisteddfod in Aberystwyth.
0:04:52 > 0:04:58- I didn't go to see the Prince, - but to meet my future colleagues.
0:05:01 > 0:05:02- On the Saturday...
0:05:03 > 0:05:07- ..the Prince was going to present - a prize awarded by his mother.
0:05:08 > 0:05:10- Tension grew throughout the day.
0:05:11 > 0:05:17- A number of us worked backstage. We - didn't want to spoil the Eisteddfod.
0:05:17 > 0:05:22- So, we agreed to work - to help the Eisteddfod...
0:05:23 > 0:05:25- ..up until the closing ceremony.
0:05:25 > 0:05:27- Then, we walked off the field.
0:05:27 > 0:05:29- We didn't see the protest...
0:05:29 > 0:05:34- ..by members of the Welsh - Language Society in the audience.
0:05:35 > 0:05:37- We heard about it later.
0:05:37 > 0:05:41- BOOS AND APPLAUSE
0:05:45 > 0:05:50- I wasn't part of the protest - because I had decided on my future.
0:05:50 > 0:05:53- I had accepted a job with the Urdd.
0:05:53 > 0:05:57- I realized that my first allegiance - was to the Urdd.
0:05:59 > 0:06:04- Thank you. All I can say is that - many more have stayed inside than...
0:06:06 > 0:06:12- I saw for myself the disquiet the - Investiture had caused in the Urdd.
0:06:12 > 0:06:17- I realized that many of - the young people who walked out...
0:06:18 > 0:06:23- ..were Urdd people who would - lead Urdd branches in the future.
0:06:24 > 0:06:27- I read Dafydd ap Gwilym - in my bed at night.
0:06:27 > 0:06:29- LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:06:30 > 0:06:34- The Prince said he read - Dafydd ap Gwilym in bed.
0:06:34 > 0:06:39- Dafydd Iwan, of course, - was prominent in the protest.
0:06:39 > 0:06:41- The Prince asked R E Griffith...
0:06:41 > 0:06:46- .."Was Mr Dafydd ap Gwilym - one of the people who walked out?"
0:06:46 > 0:06:50- There must have been a little - confusion in the Prince's mind.
0:06:50 > 0:06:53- I remember a story - about Sir Ifan ab Owen Edwards.
0:06:54 > 0:06:57- He didn't understand - why people protested.
0:06:57 > 0:07:02- Someone said to him, "Don't you see - Sir Ifan? These are your children."
0:07:02 > 0:07:07- Because of the Investiture problem, - we had to look anew at the Urdd.
0:07:07 > 0:07:11- We saw that it was run - in an old-fashioned way.
0:07:12 > 0:07:15- The movement certainly - wasn't on its knees.
0:07:15 > 0:07:20- But it definitely needed a new - approach and a new direction.
0:07:21 > 0:07:23- An element of this new direction...
0:07:23 > 0:07:27- ..was to appoint - a Marketing and Publicity Officer.
0:07:34 > 0:07:36- THIS IS THE URDD
0:07:36 > 0:07:40- When I began my new job - as Publicity Officer...
0:07:40 > 0:07:45- ..I was very fortunate that - the Urdd had received funding...
0:07:45 > 0:07:50- ..from the Midland Bank, the HSBC - now, to make a film about the Urdd.
0:07:50 > 0:07:52- WHISTLE
0:07:52 > 0:07:54- CHILDREN CHEER
0:07:59 > 0:08:04- Wil Aaron produced - a very professional film.
0:08:04 > 0:08:08- It was shown in almost - every community in Wales...
0:08:08 > 0:08:10- ..during the years that followed.
0:08:11 > 0:08:15- It certainly helped to get the - message across about the Urdd...
0:08:15 > 0:08:18- ..and what it had to offer.
0:08:18 > 0:08:23- It also presented a young, - fresh image of the movement.
0:08:23 > 0:08:28- In 1974, we organized - what we called Urdd 74.
0:08:28 > 0:08:33- It was a tour of Wales, focusing - on big comprehensive schools...
0:08:34 > 0:08:37- ..in areas such as Ebbw Vale - and Pontypool...
0:08:37 > 0:08:39- ..new ground for the Urdd.
0:08:40 > 0:08:45- We visited the schools and had - audiences of 1,000 in each one.
0:08:46 > 0:08:52- Dewi Pws and Huw Jones sang - on a trailer outside the schools.
0:08:52 > 0:08:56- These children had never - seen Welsh pop singers...
0:08:57 > 0:09:00- ..and certainly - hadn't heard Welsh pop songs.
0:09:01 > 0:09:03- It was a new experience for them.
0:09:03 > 0:09:06- Although the reception - was mixed at first...
0:09:06 > 0:09:11- ..in almost every one, we left the - place a sea of white, red and green.
0:09:12 > 0:09:14- We felt we gained new ground there.
0:09:14 > 0:09:18- By 1975, a new campaign - had to be devised...
0:09:19 > 0:09:25- ..to raise the Urdd's profile - and boost the rather shaky finances.
0:09:25 > 0:09:30- Wynne had an idea to hold - the biggest balloon race in Europe.
0:09:30 > 0:09:35- Over 100,000 cards were sold - by members and tied to balloons...
0:09:35 > 0:09:40- ..before being released - from the Llangrannog Urdd Camp.
0:09:40 > 0:09:44- One of those who helped Wynne - was Selwyn Jones.
0:09:44 > 0:09:48- First, we had to get - the balloons ready.
0:09:48 > 0:09:53- Remember printing the cards in - the cellar of the old Urdd office?
0:09:54 > 0:09:58- That was your job, wasn't it? - You printed over 100,000.
0:09:58 > 0:10:01- I should have been - in the Guinness Book Of Records.
0:10:02 > 0:10:04- You had a big share in its success.
0:10:04 > 0:10:09- I was worried whether - the ink would run in the rain.
0:10:10 > 0:10:11- Then, we wouldn't know who won.
0:10:12 > 0:10:14- I know what you mean.
0:10:14 > 0:10:16- But we took a gamble.
0:10:17 > 0:10:22- If you asked where the balloons - went, the answer is simple.
0:10:22 > 0:10:24- They all went the same way.
0:10:24 > 0:10:26- Depending on the wind direction.
0:10:26 > 0:10:29- Exactly, the wind carried them.
0:10:29 > 0:10:33- They were blown from here - towards England...
0:10:33 > 0:10:37- ..right across England, - over the North Sea.
0:10:37 > 0:10:40- Some of them came down in Denmark.
0:10:40 > 0:10:45- Some went to Norway, - but most went to Sweden and Finland.
0:10:45 > 0:10:49- The furthest card we received back - came from the borders of Russia.
0:10:49 > 0:10:53- I was going to ask - where the furthest balloon went.
0:10:53 > 0:10:55- I couldn't remember.
0:10:55 > 0:11:00- But I do remember my father-in-law - coming home to Pontrhydfendigaid.
0:11:00 > 0:11:04- He was working on the road - in the Cwmystwyth area.
0:11:04 > 0:11:06- He had one of the balloon cards.
0:11:07 > 0:11:11- It must have strayed - in that direction.
0:11:11 > 0:11:16- Do you know what was on it? The name - of his niece who lived in Oxford.
0:11:16 > 0:11:19- That was a coincidence!
0:11:19 > 0:11:23- The Urdd's message - had spread all over Europe.
0:11:23 > 0:11:28- But the most trailblazing - idea was yet to come.
0:11:29 > 0:11:29- .
0:11:31 > 0:11:33- 888
0:11:36 > 0:11:38- By the early seventies...
0:11:38 > 0:11:43- ..Wynne Melville Jones was the Urdd - Marketing and Publicity officer.
0:11:43 > 0:11:47- His task was to restore - members' faith and support.
0:11:47 > 0:11:54- His new campaigns managed to regain - ground lost in the late sixties.
0:11:54 > 0:11:58- But the biggest success - was yet to come in 1976.
0:11:58 > 0:12:02- The Urdd badge was a great symbol.
0:12:03 > 0:12:07- It was recognizable, - and it represented the Urdd oath...
0:12:07 > 0:12:11- ..to serve Wales, - fellow man and Christ.
0:12:11 > 0:12:13- But it was rather old-fashioned.
0:12:14 > 0:12:17- I started to play around - with the badge.
0:12:18 > 0:12:20- I placed a smile on the badge.
0:12:21 > 0:12:26- That immediately made - the badge appear happy.
0:12:27 > 0:12:29- I added eyes and nose.
0:12:30 > 0:12:35- After adding legs and arms, - it developed into a character.
0:12:35 > 0:12:39- He needed a name, - and he could only be Mistar Urdd.
0:12:40 > 0:12:41- Who's coming over the hill?
0:12:41 > 0:12:44- Who's coming over the hill?- - In the September staff committee...
0:12:44 > 0:12:49- ..Wynne's new idea - was immediately accepted.
0:12:49 > 0:12:53- Mistar Urdd would develop - the movement and move it forward.
0:12:53 > 0:12:57- Merchandise was purchased - for the Mistar Urdd logo.
0:12:58 > 0:13:02- A small factory was established - in the Urdd cellar in Aberystwyth.
0:13:03 > 0:13:07- More staff were employed to cope - with the huge demand for goods.
0:13:08 > 0:13:12- They also moved to an industrial - unit in Llanbadarn Fawr.
0:13:13 > 0:13:17- A boutique opened in Aberystwyth - to sell the goods.
0:13:17 > 0:13:20- A postal order service began.
0:13:21 > 0:13:26- The Urdd became - a colourful, lively movement.
0:13:26 > 0:13:29- The younger members loved it.
0:13:30 > 0:13:34- I worked on the Urdd stall - in the National Eisteddfod.
0:13:34 > 0:13:38- We sold a few books, and so on. - Adults came in for a chat.
0:13:39 > 0:13:42- But now, children rushed over...
0:13:42 > 0:13:45- ..day after day, - from morning to night.
0:13:50 > 0:13:53- I'm on my way to meet Wendy Davies.
0:13:54 > 0:13:58- She produced the Mistar Urdd gonks.
0:13:58 > 0:14:01- She lives on the border - between Wales and England...
0:14:02 > 0:14:05- ..in Lloyney, outside Ludlow.
0:14:06 > 0:14:10- I often visited Wendy - in an empty car.
0:14:11 > 0:14:14- I had plenty of company - on the way back...
0:14:15 > 0:14:20- ..because I stuffed as many gonks - as I could in the car!
0:14:24 > 0:14:26- Hello, Wynne!
0:14:26 > 0:14:30- Hello, Wendy. How are you? - Nice to see you again.
0:14:30 > 0:14:32- Lovely to see you!
0:14:32 > 0:14:35- Gosh! You've brought him with you.
0:14:35 > 0:14:36- I've brought a mutual friend.
0:14:36 > 0:14:39- I've brought a mutual friend.- - And I think you wanted it mended.
0:14:39 > 0:14:41- I've come to the right place.
0:14:41 > 0:14:43- Come and see the girls.
0:14:44 > 0:14:45- Are the girls here?
0:14:45 > 0:14:45- Are the girls here?- - Yes, thirty years on.
0:14:45 > 0:14:47- Yes, thirty years on.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51- I hope you will remember everyone.
0:14:51 > 0:14:56- I met Wendy Davies at the - Royal Welsh Show in Builth Wells.
0:14:56 > 0:14:59- She had set up a soft toy company.
0:15:00 > 0:15:05- The soft toys were based - on wild animals native to Powys.
0:15:06 > 0:15:08- They were of a very high standard.
0:15:09 > 0:15:15- I asked Wendy to make a sample of a - soft toy in the form of Mistar Urdd.
0:15:17 > 0:15:19- There were about sixteen altogether.
0:15:20 > 0:15:23- The girls all had - their lives in the village.
0:15:23 > 0:15:27- Cath sometimes came over - about half past six in the morning.
0:15:28 > 0:15:31- Mary came at different times, - sometimes later...
0:15:31 > 0:15:34- ..half past six, half past eight.
0:15:34 > 0:15:38- Bet came to help for a fortnight - and stopped twelve years!
0:15:39 > 0:15:41- That's right.
0:15:41 > 0:15:46- I hadn't realized at the time - the impact it made on the village.
0:15:46 > 0:15:49- All I wanted was a supply of gonks!
0:15:49 > 0:15:53- People who didn't have - anything to do with the Urdd...
0:15:53 > 0:15:56- ..and the Eisteddfod...
0:15:56 > 0:16:02- ..they had them as well, they just - liked them, just as a cheeky toy.
0:16:03 > 0:16:07- We never envisaged it - to be as massive as it was...
0:16:08 > 0:16:11- ..and at one of the eisteddfods...
0:16:11 > 0:16:16- ..they celebrated making 25,000 - of this size.
0:16:17 > 0:16:20- It was massive, really.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24- # Hey, Mistar Urdd #
0:16:28 > 0:16:34- There was an incident at the 1978 - Llangollen International Eisteddfod.
0:16:36 > 0:16:40- I've now arranged - to meet a former colleague...
0:16:40 > 0:16:43- ..on the - Llangollen Eisteddfod field.
0:16:44 > 0:16:48- It's a chance for Selwyn and I to - reminisce about the trouble we had!
0:16:49 > 0:16:54- # Oh, - I'm wearing Mistar Urdd knickers
0:16:55 > 0:17:01- # I stole them - when no-one was watching #
0:17:03 > 0:17:08- I wanted to bring a stall here - to reach a wider market.
0:17:09 > 0:17:14- I asked for the support of - Lady Edwards, the Urdd President.
0:17:15 > 0:17:17- She had contacts here.
0:17:18 > 0:17:21- Lady Edwards - wrote a letter of support.
0:17:22 > 0:17:25- We were granted permission - to be here.
0:17:25 > 0:17:27- People had a huge shock...
0:17:28 > 0:17:32- ..when we arrived - and set out all the merchandise!
0:17:33 > 0:17:36- It was quite new and alien to them.
0:17:37 > 0:17:41- Do you remember - what drew the most attention?
0:17:41 > 0:17:44- Of all the Mistar Urdd - merchandise...
0:17:44 > 0:17:47- ..the knickers - received most attention!
0:17:47 > 0:17:52- # Oh, - I'm wearing Mistar Urdd knickers
0:17:54 > 0:17:58- # I'm wearing Mistar Urdd knickers #
0:17:59 > 0:18:02- They came to talk to you.
0:18:02 > 0:18:06- They thought - we were only distributing pamphlets!
0:18:06 > 0:18:08- We were sent packing!
0:18:09 > 0:18:12- We had to load the van and leave.
0:18:13 > 0:18:17- But we had a lot of attention - and publicity...
0:18:17 > 0:18:21- ..not only in Wales, but - in the English newspapers, too.
0:18:23 > 0:18:27- And of course - a successful PR campaign...
0:18:27 > 0:18:30- ..needed an accompanying record.
0:18:34 > 0:18:37- I was in the office next to Wynne's.
0:18:38 > 0:18:43- I worked for the Eisteddfod, and he - was responsible for the publicity.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47- He asked me to have a go - at writing a song.
0:18:48 > 0:18:52- I often think if the Urdd colours - were brown, blue and pink...
0:18:53 > 0:18:55- ..the rhyme would have suffered!
0:18:56 > 0:19:01- # Hey, Mistar Urdd, - in your red, white and green #
0:19:02 > 0:19:04- The original record is quite basic.
0:19:04 > 0:19:08- We recorded it - at Stacey Road studio.
0:19:08 > 0:19:12- We gathered a rather - basic bunch of musicians, too!
0:19:12 > 0:19:14- Wynne wanted Emyr Wyn to sing it.
0:19:15 > 0:19:18- He had been on the Urdd staff - for 6 months.
0:19:18 > 0:19:22- He was starting out - as a children's TV presenter.
0:19:22 > 0:19:26- His fellow presenter, - Hywel Gwynfryn...
0:19:27 > 0:19:30- ..was going through a phase - of wanting to play the drums!
0:19:31 > 0:19:33- He was roped in to play the drums.
0:19:33 > 0:19:37- I think I'm right in saying he never - played the drums on a record again!
0:19:41 > 0:19:46- # I was a timid, innocent lad #
0:19:47 > 0:19:50- We persuaded Ray to sing a song.
0:19:51 > 0:19:57- Y Fi A Mistar Urdd A'r Crysau Coch - was a very popular song.
0:19:57 > 0:20:02- We needed to write a song - that would suit him.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06- I knew he liked country music - and Dafydd Iwan.
0:20:08 > 0:20:10- I kept the melody simple...
0:20:10 > 0:20:15- ..and wrote words - that he himself could have written.
0:20:18 > 0:20:21- # They were my heroes #
0:20:22 > 0:20:26- The support of Ray, - the Welsh goalkeeper Dai Davies...
0:20:26 > 0:20:28- ..and Nerys Hughes the actress...
0:20:29 > 0:20:31- ..boosted the campaign.
0:20:33 > 0:20:37- # He's our greatest hero, - Mistar Urdd #
0:20:41 > 0:20:44- Mici Plwm recorded a song called - Dyma Fi Mistar Urdd.
0:20:44 > 0:20:46- That's the song we used...
0:20:46 > 0:20:50- ..on the tour of Wales - when Mistar Urdd came to life.
0:20:51 > 0:20:54- We organized a big event in Cardiff.
0:20:55 > 0:21:01- Sophia Gardens was the ideal - venue for this sort of occasion.
0:21:02 > 0:21:03- It was packed.
0:21:04 > 0:21:08- # Here I am, Mistar Urdd
0:21:09 > 0:21:12- # Wearing white, red and green!
0:21:13 > 0:21:16- # Here I am, Mistar Urdd #
0:21:16 > 0:21:23- Mistar Urdd went on - a twelve-week tour around Wales.
0:21:24 > 0:21:28- We started in the Valleys, - and worked our way to West Wales...
0:21:28 > 0:21:30- ..through Mid Wales - and to the North.
0:21:31 > 0:21:34- The Mistar Urdd merchandise - sold well.
0:21:35 > 0:21:38- It was a substantial - source of income.
0:21:39 > 0:21:41- # Calling on everyone #
0:21:45 > 0:21:50- Mistar Urdd has changed his image - many times over the years...
0:21:50 > 0:21:52- ..like the movement itself.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55- It now has over 50,000 members.
0:21:55 > 0:21:59- But as the Urdd - approaches its centenary...
0:21:59 > 0:22:04- ..what exactly was the contribution - of the three-coloured creature?
0:22:04 > 0:22:10- The greatest change - that Mistar Urdd achieved...
0:22:10 > 0:22:14- ..was that it became - the members' movement.
0:22:14 > 0:22:19- If they showed an interest...
0:22:19 > 0:22:21- ..then, we catered for them.
0:22:22 > 0:22:24- The members led the way.
0:22:25 > 0:22:28- There was - greater provision for them.
0:22:28 > 0:22:33- It's hard to say what would have - happened without Wynne's ideas...
0:22:33 > 0:22:35- ..especially Mistar Urdd.
0:22:36 > 0:22:40- The Urdd was in a bit - of a hole following the Investiture.
0:22:41 > 0:22:45- Who knows what would have happened?
0:22:45 > 0:22:50- Wynne and Mistar Urdd - made a huge contribution...
0:22:50 > 0:22:54- ..to keep the movement going, taking - it forward to where it stands today.
0:22:55 > 0:22:57- # Hey, Mistar Urdd
0:22:57 > 0:23:00- # In your red, white and green!
0:23:00 > 0:23:05- # There's always - a lot of fun around you! #
0:23:06 > 0:23:08- S4C Subtitles by GWEAD
0:23:08 > 0:23:09- .