0:00:02 > 0:00:06A century ago, the nation was two years into the First World War
0:00:06 > 0:00:10but not everyone followed the call to fight.
0:00:10 > 0:00:13This week, I'll be hearing from those compelled by their faith
0:00:13 > 0:00:18to risk reputation and face ridicule as conscientious objectors.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21Also, daring to be different - the college chaplain spreading
0:00:21 > 0:00:24the word with Christian tattoos.
0:00:24 > 0:00:29A good by-product of being tattooed is that it creates a conversation.
0:00:29 > 0:00:31And I'm turning detective, discovering words from
0:00:31 > 0:00:35the King James Bible found in famous reggae songs.
0:00:44 > 0:00:45I'm in the city of York,
0:00:45 > 0:00:50not at the Minster but at the former Rowntree chocolate factory
0:00:50 > 0:00:54which, for generations, had faith right at its heart because of
0:00:54 > 0:00:57the Quaker beliefs of its founder.
0:00:57 > 0:01:01And right at the heart of the Christian faith is Christ himself,
0:01:01 > 0:01:03and that's the focus of our first song today.
0:03:51 > 0:03:52In two world wars,
0:03:52 > 0:03:57Quakers faced an ethical dilemma - whether to follow the call to fight,
0:03:57 > 0:04:00knowing that that might mean that they would kill for their country,
0:04:00 > 0:04:02or to make the controversial decision
0:04:02 > 0:04:04to be conscientious objectors.
0:04:05 > 0:04:08That decision was passionately supported here at
0:04:08 > 0:04:10the Rowntree factory in York,
0:04:10 > 0:04:14famous for its chocolate but driven by Quaker beliefs.
0:04:15 > 0:04:20Local MP Arnold Rowntree fought for changes to the Military Service Act,
0:04:20 > 0:04:25giving Quakers the chance to serve their country without fighting.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29Significant parts of the factory were given over to help
0:04:29 > 0:04:31the war effort.
0:04:31 > 0:04:35In fact, this building, that used to be the Rowntree staff canteen,
0:04:35 > 0:04:38was turned into a hospital to treat the wounded.
0:04:40 > 0:04:43Chris Lawson's grandfather worked for Arnold Rowntree,
0:04:43 > 0:04:47and Chris is also a Quaker and a pacifist.
0:04:47 > 0:04:49A good many Quakers would take the attitude that,
0:04:49 > 0:04:54if they were going to be followers of Christ, you cannot resort
0:04:54 > 0:04:58to the use of force and, particularly, fighting wars.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01And that is a witness that Quakers have held from the middle of
0:05:01 > 0:05:03the 17th century.
0:05:03 > 0:05:07But that would have led to accusations of cowardice and
0:05:07 > 0:05:09- much more, I imagine.- Yes.
0:05:09 > 0:05:13There was immense social disapproval but,
0:05:13 > 0:05:17at the beginning of the war, Arnold Rowntree was one of those who helped
0:05:17 > 0:05:21to set up a service unit for young Quakers called
0:05:21 > 0:05:25the Friends' Ambulance Unit and, in time, my father,
0:05:25 > 0:05:29my uncle and I myself all became members of the FAU.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34It, early on, sent out a team to France and they found
0:05:34 > 0:05:39the first need was to help with soldiers being evacuated from
0:05:39 > 0:05:41the front who were just lying in sheds.
0:05:41 > 0:05:46And there were FAU people who were helping on ambulance trains.
0:05:46 > 0:05:47My father was one of those.
0:05:49 > 0:05:51- You are still a Quaker.- Yes.
0:05:51 > 0:05:53If war was declared tomorrow and you were called up,
0:05:53 > 0:05:55what would be your reaction?
0:05:55 > 0:05:59I shall want to be a conscientious objector again.
0:05:59 > 0:06:03Christ's form of service was a non-violent approach to
0:06:03 > 0:06:04other people.
0:06:05 > 0:06:10The University of York is home to some rare Rowntree archives,
0:06:10 > 0:06:13and Chris has come to see it for the very first time.
0:06:13 > 0:06:16- Hello, Alex.- Hello. Hello. - What have we got here?
0:06:16 > 0:06:19Well, here we have some wonderful records relating to the work
0:06:19 > 0:06:21of Arnold Rowntree.
0:06:21 > 0:06:24Ah, this is so interesting to see Arnold Rowntree's name there and
0:06:24 > 0:06:27the names of various other Quakers, some of whom I've actually met.
0:06:27 > 0:06:31So here, we can see the Friends' Service Committee in 1915.
0:06:31 > 0:06:35They say, "We see the sacrifices men around us have made,
0:06:35 > 0:06:38"and are daily making, and we are conscious that many of us,
0:06:38 > 0:06:41"for whom loyalty to Christ forbids military service,
0:06:41 > 0:06:44"are giving far less to our country than those who have enlisted."
0:06:44 > 0:06:48So they do want to serve but they don't want to bear arms.
0:06:48 > 0:06:52And some of them feel that they really can do good and they're willing to die for their country,
0:06:52 > 0:06:54they're just not willing to kill others.
0:06:54 > 0:06:58That's very much the central feeling of the Quakers - loyalty to
0:06:58 > 0:07:02Christ forbids military service. It's a religious conviction.
0:07:02 > 0:07:04It's not a political one or a pragmatic one.
0:07:04 > 0:07:06It's based on a deep spiritual conviction.
0:09:13 > 0:09:18That hymn is a prayer for fresh inspiration to follow the call
0:09:18 > 0:09:19of God and, later,
0:09:19 > 0:09:25we'll be hearing from a 92-year-old Quaker who's done just that.
0:09:25 > 0:09:28For some, a Christian calling means doing things differently,
0:09:28 > 0:09:32and what could be more different than a chaplain covered in tattoos?
0:09:33 > 0:09:3832-year-old Rob Popejoy has been the chaplain for four years and
0:09:38 > 0:09:42enjoys challenging the stereotypes of what a Christian can be.
0:09:43 > 0:09:44At first glance,
0:09:44 > 0:09:46you wouldn't think Rob's faith influences the way
0:09:46 > 0:09:50he looks at all but he uses his appearance, through the medium
0:09:50 > 0:09:55of tattoos, to express his beliefs and tell the story of his faith.
0:09:57 > 0:10:01My faith, and also my wife and child,
0:10:01 > 0:10:03is the most important thing to me.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07It's the meaning of most of my tattoos.
0:10:07 > 0:10:10It's the biggest part of my life.
0:10:10 > 0:10:13I've been getting tattooed for ten years and it's become
0:10:13 > 0:10:14the story of my life, really.
0:10:14 > 0:10:18It's kind of how I document the stuff that's gone on,
0:10:18 > 0:10:22the questions I've asked of myself, the various life events.
0:10:22 > 0:10:26Like a diary or a journal, I'm just going to put it on my skin.
0:10:28 > 0:10:32I've got two Bible verses tattooed on my body.
0:10:32 > 0:10:37The first one is EZ 37 on my fingers, and that means
0:10:37 > 0:10:40the Book of Ezekiel, chapter 37.
0:10:40 > 0:10:45And that is a story from the Bible where the prophet sees
0:10:45 > 0:10:46a valley of dry bones.
0:10:47 > 0:10:51God says, "I'll breathe life into those dry bones,"
0:10:51 > 0:10:54and then the prophet sees them waken.
0:10:54 > 0:10:57And that's really poignant for me.
0:10:57 > 0:11:02And that's because, between the ages of 15 and 18, Rob lost his faith.
0:11:02 > 0:11:07And so, I found myself becoming more and more inward, more angry,
0:11:07 > 0:11:12more aggressive, and that sorrow grew and grew and grew to
0:11:12 > 0:11:15the point where I was questioning, is life worth it?
0:11:15 > 0:11:19It was a really dark period of my life.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22Rob turned his life around and rediscovered his faith,
0:11:22 > 0:11:27which inspired his vocation - guiding students at Bath College.
0:11:27 > 0:11:31My name's Rob Popejoy. I'm the chaplain here at the college.
0:11:31 > 0:11:33Do you guys know what a chaplain is?
0:11:33 > 0:11:36I am trying to make Christianity cool and I'm quite happy to say that.
0:11:36 > 0:11:38I'm cool with controversy, obviously.
0:11:38 > 0:11:43By being approachable, hopefully, people can see that there is
0:11:43 > 0:11:45something slightly different, perhaps.
0:11:45 > 0:11:49He's quite a cool person, isn't he? He's, like, full of surprises.
0:11:49 > 0:11:50HE LAUGHS
0:11:50 > 0:11:52I think he's kind of a breath of fresh air.
0:11:52 > 0:11:58He's young and kind of knows what the young people think.
0:11:58 > 0:12:02Obviously, he's different from what you consider a normal chaplain.
0:12:02 > 0:12:04I'm a Star Wars fan, in case you hadn't worked out.
0:12:04 > 0:12:07- Anyone a Star Wars fan in the room? - Yeah.
0:12:07 > 0:12:10He's quite unique cos, from my perspective,
0:12:10 > 0:12:13you never really see a Christian just covered in tattoos.
0:12:13 > 0:12:15It's not what you see.
0:12:15 > 0:12:19Whilst tattoos can alienate people, the positives I've found,
0:12:19 > 0:12:22you know, a good by-product of having them is people want to
0:12:22 > 0:12:25talk to you, people want to find out the meanings.
0:12:25 > 0:12:27You attract people as a result of having them.
0:12:27 > 0:12:29It creates a conversation.
0:12:29 > 0:12:32What are those on your fingers? What do they mean?
0:12:32 > 0:12:36Personally, for me, I mean, I don't believe in any religion but
0:12:36 > 0:12:39when he speaks about it and then he really gets into detail of
0:12:39 > 0:12:42what's gone on, and then you start to think, well,
0:12:42 > 0:12:44that is quite interesting, actually.
0:12:44 > 0:12:48I don't have any grades or anything like that or, you know,
0:12:48 > 0:12:50qualifications so, literally,
0:12:50 > 0:12:54all I have is who I am and what I've done and my experiences.
0:12:54 > 0:12:56And if that can be used for good, then great.
0:16:06 > 0:16:11Next, David is in Wrexham for a discovery of biblical proportions.
0:16:13 > 0:16:17I'm here at St Giles' Church to meet a man who found some extraordinary treasure.
0:16:17 > 0:16:19Ah! Great to meet you.
0:16:19 > 0:16:23- Really good to see you, David.- Tell me about this Bible.- Come with me.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27- So, here we are.- Wow!
0:16:27 > 0:16:31Stored away for centuries, forgotten amongst a pile of old books,
0:16:31 > 0:16:34unbeknown to everyone, lay something very special.
0:16:36 > 0:16:39'When Jason found it during a routine inventory check,
0:16:39 > 0:16:42- 'it piqued his curiosity.' - So, this is it.- How heavy is that?
0:16:42 > 0:16:45- It looks huge. - Yeah, it's quite a weight.
0:16:45 > 0:16:49- You have to be a bodybuilder to carry this!- Well, you know...
0:16:52 > 0:16:55- Goodness gracious! - It's quite a size, isn't it?
0:16:55 > 0:16:58- First edition King James Bible. - Wow!
0:16:58 > 0:17:01How did you feel when you discovered this?
0:17:01 > 0:17:04Really excited, really excited.
0:17:04 > 0:17:07As far as we know, it was bought by the churchwardens brand-new
0:17:07 > 0:17:10in 1611, when it first came out.
0:17:10 > 0:17:14And it's just been here for the whole of this time.
0:17:14 > 0:17:17It's part of the stonework of the place.
0:17:17 > 0:17:20This is the first one I've ever seen and it's amazing.
0:17:20 > 0:17:22It is rather beautiful, isn't it?
0:17:23 > 0:17:27For me, growing up in a Jamaican family, the King James version was
0:17:27 > 0:17:33THE Bible, and its words became part of our everyday language and music.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37I'm going to need a bit of equipment to help me explain more.
0:17:37 > 0:17:38It's here...
0:17:40 > 0:17:44..an authentic Jamaican sound system!
0:17:44 > 0:17:45# Oh, yeah... #
0:17:45 > 0:17:48The King James Bible's importance in the Caribbean goes back to
0:17:48 > 0:17:50the time of slavery.
0:17:50 > 0:17:53Slave owners and missionaries taught the Scriptures and,
0:17:53 > 0:17:57by the time slavery was abolished, most of the Caribbean was Christian.
0:18:00 > 0:18:05Every home had a King James Bible and they read it and understood it.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08And it was that knowledge and understanding of the Bible
0:18:08 > 0:18:11that influenced much of the culture, like this.
0:18:13 > 0:18:16A familiar tune made famous by Boney M but it started out...
0:18:16 > 0:18:19# By the rivers of Babylon... #
0:18:19 > 0:18:20..as a reggae song.
0:18:20 > 0:18:22# Where we sat down... #
0:18:22 > 0:18:27A direct lift from Psalm 137, verses one through to four.
0:18:27 > 0:18:31"By the Rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept,
0:18:31 > 0:18:33"when we remembered Zion."
0:18:33 > 0:18:37# But the wicked Carried us away in captivity... #
0:18:37 > 0:18:42"How the wicked carried us away in captivity, requiring of us a song,
0:18:42 > 0:18:47"but how can we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?"
0:18:47 > 0:18:49And it's easy to understand how,
0:18:49 > 0:18:55to the descendants of Africans who had been captured, transported
0:18:55 > 0:18:59and enslaved, these words were a source of inspiration and comfort.
0:18:59 > 0:19:03# Sing a song of freedom, sister! #
0:19:03 > 0:19:07And we're keeping the reggae theme going with our next performance.
0:19:17 > 0:19:19# Light of the world
0:19:19 > 0:19:23# You stepped down into darkness
0:19:23 > 0:19:27# Opened my eyes, let me see
0:19:29 > 0:19:35# Beauty that made this heart adore you
0:19:35 > 0:19:40# Hope of a life spent with you
0:19:40 > 0:19:43# Here I am to worship
0:19:43 > 0:19:46# Here I am to bow down
0:19:46 > 0:19:51# Here I am to say that you're my God
0:19:52 > 0:19:55# You're altogether lovely
0:19:55 > 0:19:58# Altogether worthy
0:19:58 > 0:20:03# Altogether wonderful to me
0:20:06 > 0:20:08# Oh
0:20:08 > 0:20:09# Yeah
0:20:09 > 0:20:12# King of all days
0:20:12 > 0:20:15# Oh, so highly exalted
0:20:15 > 0:20:20# Glorious in heaven above
0:20:21 > 0:20:27# Humbly you came to the earth you created
0:20:27 > 0:20:32# All for love's sake became poor
0:20:32 > 0:20:35# So here I am to worship
0:20:35 > 0:20:38# Here I am to bow down
0:20:38 > 0:20:44# Here I am to say that you're my God
0:20:44 > 0:20:47# You're altogether lovely
0:20:47 > 0:20:51# Altogether worthy
0:20:51 > 0:20:56# Altogether wonderful to me
0:20:57 > 0:21:04# I'll never know how much it cost
0:21:04 > 0:21:10# To see my sins upon that cross
0:21:10 > 0:21:16# I'll never know how much it cost
0:21:16 > 0:21:23# To see my sins upon that cross
0:21:24 > 0:21:27# So here I am to worship
0:21:27 > 0:21:30# Here I am to bow down
0:21:30 > 0:21:36# Here I am to say that you're my God
0:21:36 > 0:21:40# You're altogether lovely
0:21:40 > 0:21:43# Altogether worthy
0:21:43 > 0:21:49# Altogether wonderful to me
0:21:49 > 0:21:52# So here I am to worship
0:21:52 > 0:21:55# Here I am to bow down
0:21:55 > 0:22:01# Here I am to say that you're my God
0:22:01 > 0:22:04# You're altogether lovely
0:22:04 > 0:22:07# You're altogether worthy
0:22:07 > 0:22:13# You're altogether wonderful to me. #
0:22:16 > 0:22:19Did you notice the hints in that last song
0:22:19 > 0:22:21that the Christmas season is not far away?
0:22:21 > 0:22:24Because that's my cue to tell you about Songs Of Praise's
0:22:24 > 0:22:26very own Christmas cards.
0:22:26 > 0:22:30These are the ten winning designs from our recent competition
0:22:30 > 0:22:32and they are now on sale.
0:22:32 > 0:22:34Proceeds, of course, to BBC Children In Need,
0:22:34 > 0:22:37and you can find out more on our website, which is...
0:22:42 > 0:22:46Now, John Bell of the Iona Community has taken as his theme
0:22:46 > 0:22:50for this next song, Christ's provocative challenge,
0:22:50 > 0:22:51Will You Come And Follow Me?
0:22:51 > 0:22:53ORGAN MUSIC
0:25:09 > 0:25:10I'm a Quaker.
0:25:13 > 0:25:16And Quakers have a history, over 350 years,
0:25:16 > 0:25:20of not wanting to be involved in violence.
0:25:20 > 0:25:25Peter Rutter is 92 and is a conscientious objector.
0:25:26 > 0:25:29I attempt to be a Christian
0:25:29 > 0:25:33and follow Jesus. There are the Ten Commandments.
0:25:33 > 0:25:37I mean, one of them is, "Thou shalt not kill."
0:25:37 > 0:25:40It doesn't say, "Thou shalt not kill if you're not in the army,
0:25:40 > 0:25:42"or if you've got somebody you hate,"
0:25:42 > 0:25:46or something like that. Just, "Thou shalt not kill."
0:25:46 > 0:25:51And Jesus didn't believe in violence to the ultimate extent.
0:25:51 > 0:25:55Imagine not resisting when people are driving six-inch nails
0:25:55 > 0:25:58through your hands to tie you to a cross.
0:26:01 > 0:26:04Though Peter refused to fight in the Second World War,
0:26:04 > 0:26:07he still chose to serve his country on the front line
0:26:07 > 0:26:11and travelled across Europe with the Friends' Ambulance Unit.
0:26:11 > 0:26:15We moved people, we took casualties.
0:26:15 > 0:26:18When we got to Hamburg when the war was officially over,
0:26:18 > 0:26:24I got to a position where we had to try and resuscitate
0:26:24 > 0:26:30quite a large bevy of people who'd been in Auschwitz
0:26:30 > 0:26:33in the most deplorable conditions and, I mean, it...
0:26:35 > 0:26:38Well, I can only say it was a privilege
0:26:38 > 0:26:42to be able to do so, but very harrowing.
0:26:44 > 0:26:46Another man called Arthur Hinton and I,
0:26:46 > 0:26:48I don't know who gave the orders,
0:26:48 > 0:26:52but we were really asked to deal on a one-to-one basis
0:26:52 > 0:26:57with a couple of sisters called the Shaleron sisters from Romania.
0:26:57 > 0:27:00The youngest sister, Jutsi,
0:27:00 > 0:27:03well, I've never seen anyone in such a state as she was.
0:27:05 > 0:27:08I remember thinking, "I don't think she'll survive."
0:27:10 > 0:27:12And I must say,
0:27:12 > 0:27:14it was an extraordinary pleasure
0:27:14 > 0:27:16to see them coming back to life
0:27:16 > 0:27:19over a period of nearly six months
0:27:19 > 0:27:23to the point where they could be repatriated to Romania.
0:27:23 > 0:27:25What can you say? It's a real privilege.
0:27:26 > 0:27:28Yeah.
0:27:30 > 0:27:34I believe in searching one's conscience
0:27:34 > 0:27:37and if you conscientiously believe that you've got to fight,
0:27:37 > 0:27:40well, that's what you've got to do.
0:27:40 > 0:27:44I mean, the acts of bravery that one sees left, right and centre
0:27:44 > 0:27:47in the battlefield is staggering
0:27:47 > 0:27:51and I have the utmost respect for them and also, it's a terrible loss
0:27:51 > 0:27:53to lose people like that
0:27:53 > 0:27:56and to feel that you've got to lose people like that.
0:27:56 > 0:28:01What I'm saying is that the world doesn't have to be like that.
0:28:01 > 0:28:04Swimming against the tide isn't easy.
0:28:04 > 0:28:08If people were following Christ,
0:28:08 > 0:28:10these situations wouldn't arise.
0:30:33 > 0:30:36Well, we're almost at the end of this week's programme,
0:30:36 > 0:30:38but next week David Grant will be at The Big Sing
0:30:38 > 0:30:42at the Royal Albert Hall, introducing Michael Ball, Alfie Boe,
0:30:42 > 0:30:47Keith and Kristyn Getty and The Priests, so it's quite a line-up.
0:30:47 > 0:30:49But to end this programme,
0:30:49 > 0:30:53here's a song that focuses on the ultimate sacrifice of Christ.